During the first day of the dev server I had an Su-27SM try to pull a kvochur maneuver thinking he was hot shit. He quickly learned that American planes have 20mms
its balanced trust me bro (wont it be easier to flare since its seeker shuts off but its FOV is so small so if you maneuver away it wont relock you as easily?)
I wonder what will be worse in war thunder to deal with. The combo of suspension and gate width or however they implement the imaging IR seeker of the 9X and python 5.
His reaction when his video is obsolete within 5 hours? Must be quite painful indeed. I pity the attempt that he tried to assemble that video in a day just because he knew Defyn was creating this so he could profit of it. This is a 2 minute microwave meal that's still half frozen vs the meal that was grown on own land and cooked over 3 days. I never comment but in general...Man even I am annoyed
@@TurnerBoat I'm pretty sure these videos take quite a while to make, unlikely that they could have copied each other I think. Then again defyn did kinda reveal the video a while ago.
Thanks for taking the time to make this video! I was doing some of these things instinctively, but didn't fully grasp why I should be doing them outside of "Hey, this just kinda works." The "Picassos" demonstrating how Countermeasures work in tandem with your engine profile was invaluable!
I kinda had difficulty understanding you but I seem to get the point. TLDR: There are 2 ways the missile tries to avoid being fooled by flares: A) Gatewith method aka, the Tunnel Vision method. The seeker during the lock stage has a wide perspective to get an easy lock, once fired-it shrinks or it squints its eye, tunnel vision, straight at you. To fool this missile, just make sure to not afterburn and flare in the path of the missile. (R-73 Archer and R550 Magic 2 use this method). B) Tracking Suspension method aka, the Blink method. The seeker once fired, during its travel it blinks/closes its eye to avoid being distracted by flares. It keeps its eye shut for a second or two. During this time it remembers and calculates to predict where you will be when it opens its eye and tries to relock on to you. To fool this missile, just cut back on your burner and flare a decent amount around you and dodge away, cus you might flare the missile but the missile still could relock you or just simply flied into your proximity. (AIM-9M Sidewinder, AAM-3 use this method).
Kinda missed the important part for both. You want to flare so that wherever your aircraft throws the flares, it must intersect with where your afterburner jet was. Example, if your jet throws flares straight down, and you pull UP, then the flares get dumped BELOW your engine, which means the squinting missile never sees the flares. To counter it, you must flare and then go negative G to make the flares come between your exhaust and the missile.
Fox 3s are generally not fooled by chaffs, and as more advanced one comes people needs to know how to actually defend (chaffing notching and flying low (at closer distances) stops working if more advanced ones comes out)
Assuming multipathing them still works that's what i and most other people will do lol, i don't see the ARB meta being too affected by Fox-3s tbh. Though they're not in game yet so we'll find out just how good they are in a month or so.
@@M1A2C. having played some on the dev, multipathing does indeed work, however they are "less sensitive" to it- You need to nail a much narrower band of altitude for a successful multipath. Notch+ chaffing them is much easier than plane radars / SARH however. And of course, mountains are a good help
AFAIK, you are the first one who came with an actual techniques rather than explanation of mechanics. Great work and thank you for sharing those techniques
The best part of this video is the explanation on how missile seekers work, I don't think many new players actually understand how a missile seeker works in war thunder so using that information players can better understand why you do certain things to flare missiles.
perfect timing for you video - THANKS - I got shot down twice yesterday in Ground RB and thought I need to do some research to find a way to deal with these - now I have the strategy and just need to put it into practice
One little thing - it will work almost 100% of the time in duels but in 16v16 where pretty common situation is when 3-5+ missiles including SARH ones are all coming towards you at the same time from different angles - it won’t help much)
Ive been watching this channel for a long time, when i first got into the air tree i look at your guides on how to aim and loved your plane reviews. Your lessons on the mechanics of this game have helped not just me but many others. Thank you for your videos DEFYN
In my experience flaring M's, finding the right tempo for dropping flares to keep the seeker head off for longer really helps with avoiding them. I tend to go for about 2-3 pops a second
I have been searching for this vid for so long and it was worth the search :D well not that long but you get the point :P now that i understand it its feels like the energy mechanic in the lower tiers. the people that do understand will always win against people that dont. but as soon as you do it gets easier, not simple, but if you loose it doesnt feel like you just died to some random bs. Same goes for these missle mechanics. i was always furious to why my flares werent working on them damn strelas but now that i know.... :D nice vid, well made, love it :D
This was a super useful video, I had a vague intuition on how to counter them based on how the IRCCM works but seeing it through the seeker view and with all the detailed explanations helps a lot to understand why it actually works and how to make it work more effectively.
I'm at the J35D just before the fun stuff and chaos of top tier - first nation and first time jets. This video has been very informative for my upcoming grinding In simple term: turn off afterburner, use reverse thrust covers if you have - pop flare(s) first, then turn away. Ideally position yourself so the direction of flare remains in the bandwidth area whilst you aren't. Be offset from enemy position, fire flares towards direction of flares and turn slightly away. Roll flare, turn away
Omg the sensor view for these kinds of video is a genuine god send I'm so grateful Gaijin added them cause now we can analyze missile seekers and all, fantastic tutorial overall DEFYN more quality than I was seeking
@@dukn seek made a video... about flares to steal views from defyn after he heard about it but his video was shit and now he made it private actually unlisted lol. i still have the link
Great timing on the video. Just got back to War Thunder after a break, and getting splashed by AIM-9M's makes me wanna take another break, lol. Thanks for the guide, man!
"Here Is How You Actually Stop Dying To IRCCM Missiles Effectively" in the style of the average university reading: War thunder, reveals in its 10 odd years of existence, in the Prescence of IRCCM missiles has presented itself as a central role of addition of the features along with a flurry upon the destruction of the game mode , What could the presence of IRCCM missiles indicate, that the Battle rating may it lives upon, it may be only the platonic ideal of the toxic fighter main. the occurrence of the IRCCM missiles only has juxtaposed itself as between the matchmaker of 16v16, in discord with the systematic wrenching of BR compression await the staggering polarity between realism and and the sublimity through trivial lament of the blatantly vulgar Gaijin. The parenthesis of the parameters of the juxtaposition between the benign and the sublime as the DEFYN confides to his views, the below the the realism, this cubism, deeply stirred the community of in the last few months. DEFYN, who was has over the last 5 years manifested himself has the interpreter of war thunder to great acclaim, has responded with Just Flare". with the utterance of two words, how sublime, reminiscent of the Daoist manual written in 500BCE. Its compact nature opens up a whole new world of possibility of interpretation for the player base manifests itself as the law of nature in the war thunder ideal Just watch the video and learn to flare (why tf are you reading this)
I never seem to have that much luck with IRCCM missiles anyway, for the most part it feels just like normal IR missiles where as long as the enemy flares with enough time the missile will miss. Ground launched IRCCM missiles though seems like literal black magic, no matter how you try to evade it just won't stop tracking you, like the TY-90.
whenever he say drop 2 flares he means 4 because they drop in 2 in his video keep that in mind because you can set it up how many flares come out and different planes have for example single flares at a time
This is great for if you are 100% paying attention to 1 or 2 people but then you get the furballs and suddenly you are playing a 3d bullet hell game where sometimes the bullets come from targets that are not spotted till they are close enough to hold hands with you. Really would be nice if a certain snail would just give us 8v8 on bigger maps but you know, MONEY.
A10 has hundreds though. I put it on periodic when I hit the battle line and get a solid radar hit. Rest of planes I try to keep radar in mind and what find of missile is approaching and use manual flares with chaff. I usually use flare priority till I get to 11 rating. Then a mix.
@DEFYN Could you please make the same video, but how to defeat IR SAMs? Stuff like Ozelot, Strela 10 M2 etc. Those seem to be completely undefeatable especially from rear aspect. How do they work? Is it possible to apply the same techniques against them?
So aim 9m you just flare and go in the opposite direction of where you were going so you can fool the missile and magic 2 and r73 you just have too aim the seeker with the flares or am i wrong
the game looks really zesty graphically from your POV, like explosions, flares, engines and missiles. are there specific settings you use or is it added in during the editing process. and what are your preferred graphic setting?
But all my planes bellyflare :( . And they don't even go over 1000 really. Still the video was very helpful, especially as a future reference. May it get 100k views by the end of summer. And it's good to have an authoritative video showing that these missiles aren't undefeatable even when they have a good launch.
![[Full] 4 ต่อ 4 Celebrity EP.910 | 22 ก.ย. 67 | one31](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4TR3MVpOiw8/mqdefault.jpg)
u r my sunshine
How the fuck did you posted a comment 33mins ago when the video dropped 17mins ago ??? Bug i guess
My only sunshine
you make me happy
When skies are gray
You never know when
me watching this video, knowing damn well im still gonna make the same mistakes after understanding the concepts
If it helps you 30% of the time that's still an improvement :)
@@DEFYNthis video has a 50% chance of getting you to understand all of the concepts, but don't worry, the last 20 people to watch it all understood!
instructions unclear: i just watched the top gun movie and did the kvochur maneuver
During the first day of the dev server I had an Su-27SM try to pull a kvochur maneuver thinking he was hot shit. He quickly learned that American planes have 20mms
Can't wait to deal with Python 4 which uses both types of IRCCM at the same time
its balanced trust me bro (wont it be easier to flare since its seeker shuts off but its FOV is so small so if you maneuver away it wont relock you as easily?)
I'm really worried we get it next update...
I wonder what will be worse in war thunder to deal with. The combo of suspension and gate width or however they implement the imaging IR seeker of the 9X and python 5.
R-27T/ET both use the gate width IRCCM and that AIM-9M-type of thing.
Funny thing is Magic 2 should get the same irccm
Seek’s honest reaction:
His reaction when his video is obsolete within 5 hours? Must be quite painful indeed.
I pity the attempt that he tried to assemble that video in a day just because he knew Defyn was creating this so he could profit of it.
This is a 2 minute microwave meal that's still half frozen vs the meal that was grown on own land and cooked over 3 days.
I never comment but in general...Man even I am annoyed
I just finish watching Seek's video and it lead me straight to here. lol
Seek and Defyn beef incoming
@@TurnerBoat I'm pretty sure these videos take quite a while to make, unlikely that they could have copied each other I think.
Then again defyn did kinda reveal the video a while ago.
@@TurnerBoatu actually made an alt account to comment that? your account is a few minutes older than your comment lol
me pulling up neg g while flaring like a madman:
the R27ER in question:
Thanks for taking the time to make this video! I was doing some of these things instinctively, but didn't fully grasp why I should be doing them outside of "Hey, this just kinda works." The "Picassos" demonstrating how Countermeasures work in tandem with your engine profile was invaluable!
The cook is real holy 🙏
It’s general Lee
“IRCCM doesn’t want you to know this one simple trick”
Your crazy for that one
Now that I've watched this, can you delete it so my enemies don't see it too?
In depth video? we in balls deep with this one.
I kinda had difficulty understanding you but I seem to get the point. TLDR: There are 2 ways the missile tries to avoid being fooled by flares:
A) Gatewith method aka, the Tunnel Vision method. The seeker during the lock stage has a wide perspective to get an easy lock, once fired-it shrinks or it squints its eye, tunnel vision, straight at you. To fool this missile, just make sure to not afterburn and flare in the path of the missile. (R-73 Archer and R550 Magic 2 use this method).
B) Tracking Suspension method aka, the Blink method. The seeker once fired, during its travel it blinks/closes its eye to avoid being distracted by flares. It keeps its eye shut for a second or two. During this time it remembers and calculates to predict where you will be when it opens its eye and tries to relock on to you. To fool this missile, just cut back on your burner and flare a decent amount around you and dodge away, cus you might flare the missile but the missile still could relock you or just simply flied into your proximity. (AIM-9M Sidewinder, AAM-3 use this method).
Kinda missed the important part for both. You want to flare so that wherever your aircraft throws the flares, it must intersect with where your afterburner jet was.
Example, if your jet throws flares straight down, and you pull UP, then the flares get dumped BELOW your engine, which means the squinting missile never sees the flares. To counter it, you must flare and then go negative G to make the flares come between your exhaust and the missile.
Defyn single handedly raising the skill level and difficulty of top tier one guide at a time
you should do the same but for chaff/radar when the fox3s come
I will
Fox 3s are generally not fooled by chaffs, and as more advanced one comes people needs to know how to actually defend (chaffing notching and flying low (at closer distances) stops working if more advanced ones comes out)
Assuming multipathing them still works that's what i and most other people will do lol, i don't see the ARB meta being too affected by Fox-3s tbh. Though they're not in game yet so we'll find out just how good they are in a month or so.
@@M1A2C. having played some on the dev, multipathing does indeed work, however they are "less sensitive" to it- You need to nail a much narrower band of altitude for a successful multipath. Notch+ chaffing them is much easier than plane radars / SARH however. And of course, mountains are a good help
@@DEFYN👀
Papyrus font is crazy 😂
𝓯𝓻𝓮𝓪𝓴𝔂
Missile: It’s jover for me now
It has been so jover…
AFAIK, you are the first one who came with an actual techniques rather than explanation of mechanics. Great work and thank you for sharing those techniques
The best part of this video is the explanation on how missile seekers work, I don't think many new players actually understand how a missile seeker works in war thunder so using that information players can better understand why you do certain things to flare missiles.
perfect timing for you video - THANKS - I got shot down twice yesterday in Ground RB and thought I need to do some research to find a way to deal with these - now I have the strategy and just need to put it into practice
Love to watch someone who is really into what he is doing. Wonderful. :)
One little thing - it will work almost 100% of the time in duels but in 16v16 where pretty common situation is when 3-5+ missiles including SARH ones are all coming towards you at the same time from different angles - it won’t help much)
Yeah sensory overload is pretty much the issue there
Defeating IRCCM is pretty easy but when you try to in 16v16 furballs it just becomes a mess
@@Elijah1573 R27ER live reaction to flares:
Ive been watching this channel for a long time, when i first got into the air tree i look at your guides on how to aim and loved your plane reviews. Your lessons on the mechanics of this game have helped not just me but many others. Thank you for your videos DEFYN
Great guide! Thanks for the info!
Glad it was helpful!
Nice guide Defyn, cool explanation for beginners and intermediate players.
He wasn't kidding, he really pulled the best tutorial XD
This put everyone else to shame damn lol
This is great but what about the Red Top's?
Dude thank you so much for this tutorial! After a few failed attempts I managed to get the technique right, and the results show!
It's here! Only 5 years in the making! Thank you daddy DEFYN!
Helps a lot with understanding the mechanics, thanks man
In my experience flaring M's, finding the right tempo for dropping flares to keep the seeker head off for longer really helps with avoiding them. I tend to go for about 2-3 pops a second
I have been searching for this vid for so long and it was worth the search :D well not that long but you get the point :P
now that i understand it its feels like the energy mechanic in the lower tiers. the people that do understand will always win against people that dont. but as soon as you do it gets easier, not simple, but if you loose it doesnt feel like you just died to some random bs.
Same goes for these missle mechanics. i was always furious to why my flares werent working on them damn strelas but now that i know.... :D
nice vid, well made, love it :D
kendrick v drake ahh video timing
I think if an 1800's victorian child read this comment his head would just explode
@@UnoReversecard-ys8vl my bad queen Elizabeth😔
@@molstad182 man I was kidding your comment was funny (gave it a like too)
@@UnoReversecard-ys8vlcan I borrow your uno reverse card?
This was a super useful video, I had a vague intuition on how to counter them based on how the IRCCM works but seeing it through the seeker view and with all the detailed explanations helps a lot to understand why it actually works and how to make it work more effectively.
I'm at the J35D just before the fun stuff and chaos of top tier - first nation and first time jets. This video has been very informative for my upcoming grinding
In simple term: turn off afterburner, use reverse thrust covers if you have - pop flare(s) first, then turn away. Ideally position yourself so the direction of flare remains in the bandwidth area whilst you aren't. Be offset from enemy position, fire flares towards direction of flares and turn slightly away. Roll flare, turn away
Omg the sensor view for these kinds of video is a genuine god send I'm so grateful Gaijin added them cause now we can analyze missile seekers and all, fantastic tutorial overall DEFYN more quality than I was seeking
This gives me hope I had no idea it was this in depth 😂
Honestly, I like to think this is more than just a game with how technical Defyn's tutorials are. Thanks man💯
Can't wait for gaijin to implement the AAM-3's dual band seeker- Infrared and Ultraviolet-
16:26 who was that person mentioned may i ask?
No one particular
It was seek…
Seek made a video.
th-cam.com/video/j0V5JVbhaxc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PFI4vLBojGq5TKDj
And then made unlisted, but his video is dogshit
@@DEFYN is it matAWG?
Its you
@@dukn seek made a video... about flares to steal views from defyn after he heard about it but his video was shit and now he made it private actually unlisted lol. i still have the link
Really well done vid, I hope it will help a lot of players ;DD
Thanks for the tutorial. I might have a chance with my F-16MLU now (I am cooked)
No idea if you're still reading comments, but thanks a lot, I thought that 9M were undefeatable
i can finally do something against those pesky magic 2's in an uptier
thank you DEFYN!
Woah this is why you are the GOAT! Best flare video hands down!
Great timing on the video. Just got back to War Thunder after a break, and getting splashed by AIM-9M's makes me wanna take another break, lol. Thanks for the guide, man!
"Here Is How You Actually Stop Dying To IRCCM Missiles Effectively" in the style of the average university reading:
War thunder, reveals in its 10 odd years of existence, in the Prescence of IRCCM missiles has presented itself as a central role of addition of the features along with a flurry upon the destruction of the game mode , What could the presence of IRCCM missiles indicate, that the Battle rating may it lives upon, it may be only the platonic ideal of the toxic fighter main. the occurrence of the IRCCM missiles only has juxtaposed itself as between the matchmaker of 16v16, in discord with the systematic wrenching of BR compression await the staggering polarity between realism and and the sublimity through trivial lament of the blatantly vulgar Gaijin. The parenthesis of the parameters of the juxtaposition between the benign and the sublime as the DEFYN confides to his views, the below the the realism, this cubism, deeply stirred the community of in the last few months.
DEFYN, who was has over the last 5 years manifested himself has the interpreter of war thunder to great acclaim, has responded with Just Flare". with the utterance of two words, how sublime, reminiscent of the Daoist manual written in 500BCE. Its compact nature opens up a whole new world of possibility of interpretation for the player base manifests itself as the law of nature in the war thunder ideal
Just watch the video and learn to flare (why tf are you reading this)
that wall of text hit me like a flashbang
Thank you. Very informative 👏🏻
The information in this video is invaluable.
9:56 I agree that it really is that shrimple.
Defyn oil up at 150K?
Cool! Time for me immediately forget everything and randomly use at one point a few months later without realizing and then never use it again.
I used the bulletproof strat to avoid those missiles
Not playing that fucking BR....
You made me lose my edging streak😢
this made me start my edging streak
thank you my little pookie bear, I will try and not mald in air rb anymore
short after Seek, the synchronicity of war thunder cc' cooperating is wonderful
I love the video, very informative. One caveat is you have to know when and where the missile is. This is best for Arcade. Not really suited for Sim.
You dont know how long i was waiting for this video
Defyn still shaping me into the player I am today. Fucking legend.
Do you have any idea how to defeat the Ground IRCCM missiles form SPAAs?
where vlog
soon soon
DEFYN out here with another tutorial so we may stay on the war thunder grind
I never seem to have that much luck with IRCCM missiles anyway, for the most part it feels just like normal IR missiles where as long as the enemy flares with enough time the missile will miss. Ground launched IRCCM missiles though seems like literal black magic, no matter how you try to evade it just won't stop tracking you, like the TY-90.
Combined shrinking FoV and tracking suspension, with latter taking precedence. But because its narrower FoV, it will update more frequently.
This I find really useful in like 2 out of 100 games.
Otherwise trying to dodge one missile just makes me take 3 other missiles.
When Defyn cooks up a banger you best bet ima eat up all the meat and the bush foods 🤤
whenever he say drop 2 flares he means 4 because they drop in 2 in his video keep that in mind because you can set it up how many flares come out and different planes have for example single flares at a time
I always loved your guides, helped me a lot when I just started learning wt air combat
Very usefull summary, a bit harder to apply for sim pilots. But still possible. ;)
1. Have more flares than the enemy.
2. Pray
This is great for if you are 100% paying attention to 1 or 2 people but then you get the furballs and suddenly you are playing a 3d bullet hell game where sometimes the bullets come from targets that are not spotted till they are close enough to hold hands with you. Really would be nice if a certain snail would just give us 8v8 on bigger maps but you know, MONEY.
The missile knows where it is at all times
the best tutioral I've ever seen, job well done man
Great now everyone is going to be able to flare my missiles
Watched the seek's vid first and with this one, i can finally dodge every IRCCM cam.
I've seen my missles walk back onto targets before because they are tracking the constant stream of CM coming out of the aircraft
A10 has hundreds though. I put it on periodic when I hit the battle line and get a solid radar hit. Rest of planes I try to keep radar in mind and what find of missile is approaching and use manual flares with chaff. I usually use flare priority till I get to 11 rating. Then a mix.
Thank you and have a nice summer
10/10 edge very good video length👍🏻
LEBRON you are my sunshine!!! 13:36
Defyn hit the griddy with this one 🗣🗣🗣📢📢📢
I've been waiting for this moment for a loong time
The missile no longer knows where it at all times
The cook served us yet another 5 star dish
Thank you defyn
No way seek posted the same video the same day
@@DEFYN so u had in mind, and he copied lolll
This is very helpful, thank you!
The IRCCM knows where it is
the seek slander is wild and Im here for it
@DEFYN Could you please make the same video, but how to defeat IR SAMs? Stuff like Ozelot, Strela 10 M2 etc. Those seem to be completely undefeatable especially from rear aspect. How do they work? Is it possible to apply the same techniques against them?
Love this video, should minimize the amount of people complain that the missiles are op.
So aim 9m you just flare and go in the opposite direction of where you were going so you can fool the missile and magic 2 and r73 you just have too aim the seeker with the flares or am i wrong
in very simple terms, yeah
but it takes a bit of practice and precision
The chalkboard returns
the game looks really zesty graphically from your POV, like explosions, flares, engines and missiles. are there specific settings you use or is it added in during the editing process. and what are your preferred graphic setting?
I’ll keep twiddling my thumbs at mid tier thanks
Goon sesh: Recommended
If only Gaijin would get so indepth with aircraft gun ammunition as they do with missiles 😵
But all my planes bellyflare :( . And they don't even go over 1000 really. Still the video was very helpful, especially as a future reference. May it get 100k views by the end of summer. And it's good to have an authoritative video showing that these missiles aren't undefeatable even when they have a good launch.
lovin' the papyrus font 😎
amazing guide
Daddy Defyn taking care of us
A wonderful guide as usual, it was worth the wait ^^
Unfortunately, it's seems not as easy to flare the 9M in arcade... something feels wrong