My one hope (till I get more samples done,) is that this particular hive actually had much higher mite loads before treatment than the others, avearged about 5, as it was not one where the queen was found 2 weeks ago so it was not sampled.
I only treat with formic acid when I have capped queen cells. It is during a brood break but everything that hatches is being treated. It knocks back the mites. I also treat at night or early evening so that the majority of the bees get hit with the strongest smell.
Thyme and oregano have very high efficacy on mites. Thinking of mixing in a few drops to winter feed. Been adding it to they're watering station. We'll see.
My two cents would be the large volume with the supers and some mites may have been dead already right at the end of the treatment. Im about to do mine and I will wait a week after treatment is complete to do a mite count.
I always thought FA was bullet proof but had negative effects on the hive. If it isn't clobbering the mites then it really isn't the "Go to" mite treatment. Thanks Peter for your video and hope you are back 100% real soon.
perhaps having the supers on dilutes the vapors from being as effective as possible. it does recommend that you don;t have supers on, but says safe to use with supers on as it will not contaminate the honey. Try pulling supers and retreat perhaps the mites were lodged under the abdominal plates and hadn't fallen off on their own or the mites have built a tolerance to the formicpro and need to use something different for a while
I think you made an excellent point when you said that the mites in the testing cup may have been dead mites. You may have tested too soon after end of treatment. I got an email from NOD saying that you should do a mite check one week after treatment. I also could not find any information on the precision of the mite test, e.g., would one get the same result if other frames with larvae within the same hive were sampled?
Using the formic pro With supers on, I will use the full treatment 2 strips for the first 10 days. Then remove them both and add a single strip for an additional 10 days. I still prefer using the maqs and reduce them down to brood chamber only. I think finding the queen is not necessary. They often stop laying during treatment, I would kill any queen cells and check back in a couple weeks after treatment. Open brood is often gone it depends on the colony. Queens are almost never killed by the treatment. Been using formic for years now without fail
Never used Formic but I wonder if, since you mentioned in the first video that the fumes are heavier than air, the vapors couldn’t reach a high enough concentration in the upper brood box to penetrate the cappings up there.
With results I've had as well as many others such as this video, I fail to see the point of this product. It seems like a losing race. It's not a failure of application. I've had more damage and set backs caused by formic pro vs mites probably 5 fold.
Hello Peter, I know I questioned the use of FA in your last video, but I was genuinely sorry to see what you found when you looked through your stocks today. I really hope it has not knocked them back too much, and they pick back up for you. Even with hundreds of stocks, it is alway heartbreaking to see the bees suffer. I am also suffering from covid symptoms at the moment, so you have my sympathy. Even after 60 + years keeping bees, I learnt somthing this year. Never leave supers on over winter. It is something I have never done, but due to family circumstances, I was unable to remove some of my supers last year. My son removed them for me in the spring, and I stacked them indoors ready to extract when I pull this years honey. A couple of days ago, I look into one stack, and was shocked to find the top two full supers crawling alive with huge larvae of wax moth Major. This is the first time I have ever experienced this pest. I never use my supers for breeding in, and I store them wet over winter. I never have any wax moth damage in these supers.
Good advice about removing the supers. Unfortunately I have recently been helping two hobbyists in my area from the end of may, which is our winter in southern New Zealand who both left their supers on single deep management with a queen excluder betwixt them no less😵💫 it's not great.
Peter thanks for doing this. Here is a copy and past of my results after using Formic Pro on my 5 hives. This is only my second summer keeping bees. My sad story is I did not do a test on my mite counts before treating(not smart). These are from my FB post. These Nite counts were done a Here is a MITE update on 3 of my five hives. The two hives that finished the 14 day Formic Pro treatments on July 17 both had 5 mites per 300. My last years Queen finished the two 10 day treatments on July 22nd had 2 mites per 300. I used the Dawn Ultra recipe as per Randy Oliver’s website. Last 2 hives both swarm cell virgins from my last years queen. One with the 14 day treatment had 2 mites per 300 the other with two 10 day treatments had 12 mites per 300. I'll be looking at the last one asap. The above treatments all came out of the same FPRO lot. Peter I look forward to seeing the rest of your results.
I was planning on maybe using formic when our weather cooled a little , but you got me rethinking that decision , on a different note looks like your goldenrod is starting to bloom, have a bless day.
We have some early golden rod blooming here in NJ but I have noticed over the years this early variety doesn't do much for the bees. There is a later bloom, end of August, that's when I get that wonderful smell. I used formic 3 years ago for an emergency colony and it worked great, still going strong. Good luck with your bees.
Formic claims to kill mites under cappings, it does at high enough levels that also will kill the bees brood and queens. All forms of treatments work best with less capped brood, and here you are treating bees at the least effective time of the year when hives are full of capped brood and you are seeing the results as such. Sticking to organic treatments, OAV works very well without brood. Very early spring, very late fall or even better both, oav at those times of the year will get you through the season . Kill the mites in fall, and your mite levels will be the same in spring, then kill the remaining mites. If you want to use formic, just use it more often or put in a dose that will probably kill your queens, too. It's the nature of the beast. The many honey supers you had on the hives provided a larger area for the fumes, so the treatment was not as strong. If it isn't killing bees and queens, it isn't killing mites under cappings. I know that sounds ridiculous.
I have experienced the same thing. It does knock them way back but I have still found mites after treatment. I wonder if it is new mites being brought in from foraging bees.
I am really surprised how upset your bees are, they must hate that formic. They went after your hands then later at the conclusion they really went after your head net. I would be concerned in your shoes.
another mite check in a few days mite have different result? have you tried to mite check in the same hive at the same time, maybe the last 10 mites where huddled together?🤔 lol
Looks like you will have nice window for oav treatment in couple days rest of that brood hatches . We are all saying same thing comes to chemical treatments just need to mix in non chemical treatments . Use bulk bees for splits stop spliting the mites using brood... Drone brood removal ever effective if not more effective than chemicals but theres a methods to can't just remove it all at once. 70% of the mites are in the drones.. can make a split with smoke up box way faster than making splits with brood . Hopefully that sweat helps with the covid get well soon
Ugh🤨 nothing worse than shelling out a lot of money for something that's hit or miss. Doesn't make me keen to open my wallet for the stuff. Thymol isn't effective here in the part of central Otago I live in because our main nectar producing plant is thyme 😂 so not much point using a thyme derived treatment unfortunately. It's the only area of New Zealand that has it in any quantity, I'm not sure if the thymol that occurs in the hive naturally as a result of the bee's foraging thyme has an impact but I certainly hope so 😂 I've been nervously considering formic to add to my mite treatment, apivar and bayvarol strips are the most common here, with oxalic acid vapour and strips also popular. I'll be watching with interest to see what the results are.
Overuse by beekeepers starting to develop resistance. We never seem to learn our lesson. With all the use of OA we will see the same in a few years. Nature always finds a way. Glenn
![ค้าง (STILL) - GEMINI [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ftxx3hk5vkU/mqdefault.jpg)
I appreciate the honest assessment and findings,
My one hope (till I get more samples done,) is that this particular hive actually had much higher mite loads before treatment than the others, avearged about 5, as it was not one where the queen was found 2 weeks ago so it was not sampled.
I only treat with formic acid when I have capped queen cells. It is during a brood break but everything that hatches is being treated. It knocks back the mites. I also treat at night or early evening so that the majority of the bees get hit with the strongest smell.
Get better soon!!!!!
Thyme and oregano have very high efficacy on mites. Thinking of mixing in a few drops to winter feed. Been adding it to they're watering station. We'll see.
Interesting
My two cents would be the large volume with the supers and some mites may have been dead already right at the end of the treatment. Im about to do mine and I will wait a week after treatment is complete to do a mite count.
I always thought FA was bullet proof but had negative effects on the hive. If it isn't clobbering the mites then it really isn't the "Go to" mite treatment. Thanks Peter for your video and hope you are back 100% real soon.
perhaps having the supers on dilutes the vapors from being as effective as possible. it does recommend that you don;t have supers on, but says safe to use with supers on as it will not contaminate the honey. Try pulling supers and retreat perhaps the mites were lodged under the abdominal plates and hadn't fallen off on their own or the mites have built a tolerance to the formicpro and need to use something different for a while
I think you made an excellent point when you said that the mites in the testing cup may have been dead mites. You may have tested too soon after end of treatment. I got an email from NOD saying that you should do a mite check one week after treatment. I also could not find any information on the precision of the mite test, e.g., would one get the same result if other frames with larvae within the same hive were sampled?
Just running the cup onto the open brood may reduce flying frenzy.
Using the formic pro With supers on, I will use the full treatment 2 strips for the first 10 days. Then remove them both and add a single strip for an additional 10 days. I still prefer using the maqs and reduce them down to brood chamber only. I think finding the queen is not necessary. They often stop laying during treatment, I would kill any queen cells and check back in a couple weeks after treatment. Open brood is often gone it depends on the colony. Queens are almost never killed by the treatment. Been using formic for years now without fail
Thanks for this comment food for thought
Never used Formic but I wonder if, since you mentioned in the first video that the fumes are heavier than air, the vapors couldn’t reach a high enough concentration in the upper brood box to penetrate the cappings up there.
With results I've had as well as many others such as this video, I fail to see the point of this product. It seems like a losing race. It's not a failure of application. I've had more damage and set backs caused by formic pro vs mites probably 5 fold.
I lost a pile of hives last year from it
Im calling this one " Leaning tower of Bees"
Hello Peter,
I know I questioned the use of FA in your last video, but I was genuinely sorry to see what you found when you looked through your stocks today. I really hope it has not knocked them back too much, and they pick back up for you.
Even with hundreds of stocks, it is alway heartbreaking to see the bees suffer. I am also suffering from covid symptoms at the moment, so you have my sympathy.
Even after 60 + years keeping bees, I learnt somthing this year. Never leave supers on over winter. It is something I have never done, but due to family circumstances, I was unable to remove some of my supers last year. My son removed them for me in the spring, and I stacked them indoors ready to extract when I pull this years honey. A couple of days ago, I look into one stack, and was shocked to find the top two full supers crawling alive with huge larvae of wax moth Major. This is the first time I have ever experienced this pest.
I never use my supers for breeding in, and I store them wet over winter. I never have any wax moth damage in these supers.
Good advice about removing the supers. Unfortunately I have recently been helping two hobbyists in my area from the end of may, which is our winter in southern New Zealand who both left their supers on single deep management with a queen excluder betwixt them no less😵💫 it's not great.
@@Manuherikiabeekeeping Hello, thank you for your reply. I wish you all the very best for your coming season, kind regards,
Tony Marsh UK.
Peter thanks for doing this. Here is a copy and past of my results after using Formic Pro on my 5 hives. This is only my second summer keeping bees. My sad story is I did not do a test on my mite counts before treating(not smart). These are from my FB post. These Nite counts were done a
Here is a MITE update on 3 of my five hives. The two hives that finished the 14 day Formic Pro treatments on July 17 both had 5 mites per 300.
My last years Queen finished the two 10 day treatments on July 22nd had 2 mites per 300. I used the Dawn Ultra recipe as per Randy Oliver’s website.
Last 2 hives both swarm cell virgins from my last years queen. One with the 14 day treatment had 2 mites per 300 the other with two 10 day treatments had 12 mites per 300. I'll be looking at the last one asap.
The above treatments all came out of the same FPRO lot.
Peter I look forward to seeing the rest of your results.
I was planning on maybe using formic when our weather cooled a little , but you got me rethinking that decision , on a different note looks like your goldenrod is starting to bloom, have a bless day.
We have some early golden rod blooming here in NJ but I have noticed over the years this early variety doesn't do much for the bees. There is a later bloom, end of August, that's when I get that wonderful smell. I used formic 3 years ago for an emergency colony and it worked great, still going strong. Good luck with your bees.
I hate FP it killed my bees and mites were still bad. I use apigaurd in fall and have not looked back. Usually mid 80s to low 90s when I use it.
@@noahG82 Thanks
I found the May application effective 3× 10 days apart. This week coming, I'll be using Apiguard 2x 12 days apart, well see.
I've been using OA strips for years with great results.
Cant wait!
I had COVID this week also but put mite treatment on my hives anyway! Just like you!
Formic claims to kill mites under cappings, it does at high enough levels that also will kill the bees brood and queens. All forms of treatments work best with less capped brood, and here you are treating bees at the least effective time of the year when hives are full of capped brood and you are seeing the results as such. Sticking to organic treatments, OAV works very well without brood. Very early spring, very late fall or even better both, oav at those times of the year will get you through the season . Kill the mites in fall, and your mite levels will be the same in spring, then kill the remaining mites. If you want to use formic, just use it more often or put in a dose that will probably kill your queens, too. It's the nature of the beast. The many honey supers you had on the hives provided a larger area for the fumes, so the treatment was not as strong. If it isn't killing bees and queens, it isn't killing mites under cappings. I know that sounds ridiculous.
I had same issue last year. Lost a hive after multiple FA treatments over winter to pms.
I have experienced the same thing. It does knock them way back but I have still found mites after treatment. I wonder if it is new mites being brought in from foraging bees.
I am really surprised how upset your bees are, they must hate that formic. They went after your hands then later at the conclusion they really went after your head net. I would be concerned in your shoes.
another mite check in a few days mite have different result? have you tried to mite check in the same hive at the same time, maybe the last 10 mites where huddled together?🤔 lol
LOL
Looks like you will have nice window for oav treatment in couple days rest of that brood hatches . We are all saying same thing comes to chemical treatments just need to mix in non chemical treatments . Use bulk bees for splits stop spliting the mites using brood... Drone brood removal ever effective if not more effective than chemicals but theres a methods to can't just remove it all at once. 70% of the mites are in the drones.. can make a split with smoke up box way faster than making splits with brood . Hopefully that sweat helps with the covid get well soon
Ugh🤨 nothing worse than shelling out a lot of money for something that's hit or miss. Doesn't make me keen to open my wallet for the stuff. Thymol isn't effective here in the part of central Otago I live in because our main nectar producing plant is thyme 😂 so not much point using a thyme derived treatment unfortunately. It's the only area of New Zealand that has it in any quantity, I'm not sure if the thymol that occurs in the hive naturally as a result of the bee's foraging thyme has an impact but I certainly hope so 😂 I've been nervously considering formic to add to my mite treatment, apivar and bayvarol strips are the most common here, with oxalic acid vapour and strips also popular. I'll be watching with interest to see what the results are.
I hope your bee's don't get your COVID ...😮
Get well soon, I can hear your "sighs" difficulty in breathing.
Overuse by beekeepers starting to develop resistance. We never seem to learn our lesson. With all the use of OA we will see the same in a few years. Nature always finds a way. Glenn
It’s crap. It didn’t drop mites last year. Someone needs independent studies.
I won’t use it again.
Perhaps, your bees are becoming immuned? (mites are becoming immuned)