Finishing With Lacquer VS Catalized Varnish

[@tonyworkswood]

You speak my language...No Bull Sh*t...Acid Catalysed Lacquer ..... WINS ... every time. Tank You...........Tony....😍😍🥰🥰🥰

[@CaseyBryan-ow4od]

This was the absolute best explanation of cat varnish I've found yet amazing job bud! 👏

[@WoodGuy]

Thanks for the great compliment, Casey, I really appreciate it. I did these vids figuring I'm retired and might as well help people learn the easy way instead of the hard way.

[@woodycox5496]

Thank you for your rapid response. Really appreciate your advice.

[@davidswestcoastpainting8510]

great video with lots of info and explanation...thank you so very much...

[@WoodGuy]

Sorry folks, I put my videos on the back burner so I can help my son build his house, it's taking longer than I thought, fighting serious winds on a constant frustrating basis, then it rains and the winds come back and put a tilt in the trusses that were ready for plywood had the rain not come along.....really frustrating.
Once his place is done I'll be back with a lot more videos and I'll try for one a week. I'll show and explain all the steps to distressing furniture the same way seriously expensive factories do it, they'll be none too happy with me when I give away the process they really don't want out there. I'll show how to do a crackle finish that looks like it's a 100 years old and the tricks the antique reproducers use to get that look. I'll be doing a Tongue and Groove Western Red Cedar outdoor ceiling finishing the boards with Cat Varnish. Most outdoor ceilings, ok all, outdoor ceiling here are done with stucco because of the lack of humidity and the summer heat, normally really disastrous for real wood used outdoors. I'll show how to do that without the boards splitting and coming apart during the first summer. You end up with a stunningly beautiful ceiling that will last a very long time when it's done right.
I'll share all the information I can think of working with wood and answer any and all questions I know the answers to, if I don't know the answer I'll be honest and say so, but what I know, you'll end up knowing. It's only right that us old farts share what we've learned over the years to the younger generation so they don't have to learn the hard way. My way of paying it forward. I'll also share tips on being a good manager of people. Once I became a business owner and dropped out of college to be one I put to use what I learned in my Business Management coarses in College, it made me a better boss.
Most of all I'll share how to stay safe while woodworking so you too can retire with all your fingers in tact. Not many can say that after 50 years of working in the woodworking industry and working with some seriously dangerous industrial machines. I'll share stories too, some are really funny and some where not funny at all.
I'll show you some of the items I've designed and ideas I came up with that you might like and want to make yourself, problem solving was really interesting to me and I've learned to love coming up with different solutions to problems and building the unique.

[@spkendrick]

I've always thought it was so neat to scuff sand something, blow it off and simply spray another topcoat and it dry perfectly clear

[@vincentlaguardiagambini5702]

Fantastic video, thanks for putting it up.

[@WoodGuy]

Thanks for the compliment, really appreciate it!

[@jimknowles5483]

So you are the guy with the information I have been looking for!!
I can't thank you enough!
I love conversion varnish as well! Tough cheap looks great! So after your steelwoll, so you blow the particals off or brush? Looks like a super prep for top coat.
Maybe you can cover effective efficient towner spraying. Say you have a golden oak and you (without stripping the old finish off) Want to change it(tone it) to medium brown. With utc's 844 in a clear base.
Looking for the best meathod. Have been using 20% color from stain base , 20% vinal sealer for a binder. And 60% lacquer thinner. Spraying out of a cup gun held away from the surface so not to stripe and be more forgiving...... lay out the doors side by side in the same layout as the kitchen. go around about three times to sneak up on the "target" color. Would love to improve on my meathod......ideas??
Thanks!!
just jim

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Jim, wow, that's a lot of steps to get the color you're after. You can tint conversion varnish, you just have to make sure it's a solvent based colorant. If you go that route you'll want to make sure you 'almost' have the darkness of color you're after, that way your top coat, together with the sealer coat, gives you the depth of color you're after. Be careful on the tint you use, some say they're ok for both solvent and water base but really aren't. Like you, I used UTC's brand of colorants, great stuff, but do a small test regardless of who's brand you use. Using colorants and mixing the right colors to get the shade you're after takes practice, lots of it. Burnt Umber, Van Dyke Brown and all the others when mixed together in the right proportions can give you exactly what you're after, it just takes knowing what colors in the spectrum will give you what you're after. Not to mention the cost of having all the colors they have. You just have to make sure you keep track of how much of each color you used when you end up with what you want. It's not fun getting exactly what you're after then realizing you didn't keep track of the amounts of each, talk about feeling dumb.....lol.
I recently purchased conversion varnish tinted white. Wow, was I impressed, two coats and it was perfect, I mean it looked like a high end factories paint process. The best part is, it's catalized varnish so you can forget about a household product hurting the finish, it's darn near bullet proof for chemical abuse.
My prep for finishing is extremely simple, after scuff sanding the sealer coat with 220 grit paper I give the piece a good rubdown with #0000 steel wool. I run my hand over the piece while I'm blowing off the piece to make sure I like what I'm feeling and also get rid of any strands of steel wool left behind, that's all I do before I apply the top coat. Tack cloth isn't something you need to use with catalized varnish because your sealer coat is the same product as the top coat. It was an eye opener way back when when I tried catalized varnish, the name made it sound like it was going to be a pain to use. Talk about a rude awakening, I kicked myself for not trying it much sooner after using it. In my shop I don't have sanding sealer or a lacquer product.
I've done what you do, feathering the piece with a fine mist of color to get the color you're after, it works but it's a lot of work. I used to do that when a customer wanted Oak with a cherry finish. They didn't want cheery wood, they wanted oak...sheesh! I used of Minwax's stain, I think it was Red Mohagany, to get a deep cherry color. I just remember it took a cup spray gun dialed way down and you'd go over the piece 3 or 4 times letting each coat dry before you shot it again to get the depth of cherry you were after, talk about a pain-in-the-butt. It worked great and the customers love the look, but if they wanted to do a repair down the road, whoever was doing the repair wasn't going to find it easy to make the repair look good.

[@BEARDEDTECHY]

Thank you for explaining this!

[@jasonadams4110]

I would love to see you spray a piece. Also could you explain what your seal coat is. What type of compressor do you use? Great video

[@tonyworkswood]

Look at my channel. 35CFM Compressor. Thanks Jason I don't BS at all been in the trade all my life.
Give me time I'm just getting to videoing. Tony

[@firefighteremt9]

Great explanation, thank you Wood Guy

[@micahgeraghty5423]

Try wrapping your paper around square foam sponge , flatter even sand and also allows you to prevent sanding across the grain with square edges.

[@WoodGuy]

Sanding the sealer coat with anything other than your hand doesn't give you the feel you need so you don't sand through to the wood, especially on soft woods like pine with it's high and low spots in the grain. Some factories have women sanding the sealer coat because they seem to have a softer touch. A stained piece of furniture that makes it's way to the finishing process, you don't want the sealer coat sanded through, just a touch with sand paper on the stain below will leave a blemish in the finish and cause the piece to be rejected and refinishing isn't fun or cheap.

[@richardmullet9848]

Would like to see more videos, please. Show us how you make the cabinets. Thanks

[@WoodGuy]

I'm just done making a high chest, waiting for hardware and the video will get posted, thanks for the interest.

[@WoodGuy]

I just posted a video of a high chest I built, hope you like it.

[@shidoin5398]

Pre catalyzed lacquer and post cat aren't the same as nitro, which is suseptible to moisture

[@WoodGuy]

A couple of commenters have really gone after my lacquer and water damage comment when I said the water ring isn't going away. Well guess what, it's not going away on it's own and I suppose I should of said that. They would of been happier if I said, if you get a water ring in your lacquered piece of furniture and you're a finishing professional and know what chemicals and steps needed to remove the water ring, then it's possible to remove the water ring. So I'll really take a deep dive about it to prevent any further venting. Cat Varnish won't cause you to go buy materials or cause you grief or work to remove the milky white ring left behind from a wet glass. if you get one, once you remove the wet glass and dry up the wetness, the ring left behind will go away all by itself. Some exceptions would be open grain lumbers like Oak, Mahogany, Walnut, the most common lumber you'd be using. To stop a water ring with Cat Varnish in those species, make sure your under coats are sealing the open grain of the wood so water can't get under the finish and get to the wood. With lacquer, regardless of how well you sealed off the grain you'll get water rings left behind if a wet glass is left for any length of time on your furniture. If your making a dining table out of an open grain lumber and you finish your table with lacquer and sealed the grain, then a water ring can be removed by you and some chemicals and elbow grease. If you haven't sealed off the grain in open grain lumbers and water if left long enough on you table, you have a mess on your hands regardless of which material you finished the table with. But, if the table is finished with Cat Varnish the water ring will go away all by itself if you sealed off the grain of the wood and the water sits on the top of your table long enough to leave a foggy ring from a sweaty glass or just a spill. So all things considered, I'll take Cat Varnish every time.

[@WoodGuy]

My son's place is almost finished, I'm installing the base molding this weekend. Soon I'll be back to making stuff......my son's place is going to need cabinets so there will be plenty of stuff to video.
I'm in the process of making a wall hanging tool cabinet for power tools I was going to do a video of, but it's a box with doors. But it's not your every-day box with doors, I had some Western Maple sitting around and some Walnut with a lot of sap running though a couple of boards and decided to make it out of that. The inside back is going to be walnut, the door frames are Maple and the door panels are Walnut. I'm hoping it's not going to look too weird, but who cares, it's a tool cabinet, OK, an expensive tool cabinet. I'll make sure to go over the process of making it in a video before long. One other piece of good news for me, my shop is now air conditioned, now I'll be able to tinker year-round.
I hate mosquitos and here in Arizona they're rare, but I hate them, so I made a huge Walnut mosquito, figure that one out. I'll show you that in a video. I even modeled it after a native mosquito that's somewhere here in Arizona, complete with paper-thin Walnut wings. I also want to show you a simple frame I made for a canvas print I got of our solar system planets for my grandson who's 3 and really into the planets, I mean seriously into them. He even knows the names of all the dwarf planets in our solar system, along with the names of their moons and how many each has. I can't wait 'till he starts school and his poor teacher somewhere along the line mentions the planets. There's no way she/he knows the planets in our solar system like he does.

[@michaelcrossley7349]

I would really like to see more content from you as you have a ton of experience! This video is very helpful. Most of the finishing how-to videos on TH-cam don’t even come close to the level of information you provided in this video and in your responses to the comments.

[@Clomwellschimdt]

I’ve heard from manufacturers that if you dilute the catalyst to less than 1% then the catalyzing will reverse, so you can actually poor the remnants of the mixed varnish back into the gallon if you have a bit left over. I’ve done this for years and never had any trouble.

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Nathan, yes, that's true, also, sticking the left over in a fridge also retards the catalyst. I haven't tried it, I know how much I need to mix to get the two coats I'm going to be doing, my waste is usually an ounce or two. I've used it so long I can look at what I'm going to finish and get really close at how much material I need. When it's a big project I know I'm going to end up making more that one batch. Using the product since the early 80's I know Cat Varnish pretty well. I've used it so long that I haven't kept up with lacquer and sanding sealer and what they've done with it other than made lacquer and practically everything else in a water base version. I'm not a fan of water based finishing products. When they came out with gel stain I thought, is that stain for clutz's who spill everything, you don't have to worry about having to stir it if you have a stir phobia......lol.

[@joshuabailly2639]

I've never heard this! For years I've stressed about dumping the catalyzed leftovers in the garbage. I always worried that putting any bit of catalyst back into the can would alter it somehow.

[@jameswaters3599]

I didn't know that lenmar had a 2 part varnish. I'll ask my local Benjamin Moore for more info. Thank you!

[@WoodGuy]

If not you can get it online from a place called World Paint Supply. Shipping isn't cheap, but I get 2 or 3 gallons at a time to make the shipping cheaper.

[@CesarGonzalez-kt7vp]

One. Where do you buy? I live in San Francisco Bay Area. Two. On Gemini"s website (They bought Lenmar from Kelly Moore) it's only listed in White and I'm looking for Satin Black. Four. My guess is you can't use Cat Vanish as a top coat over Lacquer. As you can tell I'm a newbie at all this! My project is refinishing an eight chair dinning room table which is originally done in satin black.

[@WoodGuy]

I get my stuff online from World Paint Supply, look em up online and give them a call and see if they have it in black, if now you can ask if they can make some up for you.

[@martyjosephson4937]

Have some Good Luck with your sons house and hope all goes well for the both of you.Stay safe, stay healthy.

[@WoodGuy]

Thanks Marty, we're in the drywall phase right now so it won't be long before the heavy lifting is over and the small stuff starts. I'm installing 2X6 in the bathroom for him on the flat between studs where towel rods go so when it's time to install towel rods there will be solid wood to screw into, something home builders haven't thought of.

[@roofermarc1]

I just seen your remarks on smoothing the finish. And the scuff sanding n the video. Seems as though I'm doing it wrong using my random orbit sander. I've gotten some good results but removing the orange peel I go through extremes. I've also always used 3 coats of varnish being as I sand it all away. It looks good though when I'm done.
also I wouldn't be able to spend as much time buffing a cabinet or a door as I do smaller stuff like turntable plinths and really just audio racks and amp stands for myself. Thanks for posting. One day you can make a video of actual spraying!

[@WoodGuy]

I sprayed the couch potato tray, that video is there if you want to see it.

[@roofermarc1]

@@WoodGuy I seen it afterwards. Thanks.

[@woodycox5496]

Meant to include it is a gravity fed gun using a regular compressor, not a turbine. thanks

[@bugsysiegals]

FWIW - the wood whisperer sprays his pieces with water before anything, then sands again with 220, then when spraying waterborne product, supposedly the wood fibers don’t raise again ... not sure if that’s true but I’m considering trying waterborne products and might just be a good way to avoid this issue you mention.

[@hsbrooks]

In my experience water based finish will raise the grain even after pre-spraying and scuff sanding. maybe not as much as the first application but raise it will. I just built an oak raised panel headboard using water based dye. Pre-sprayed with distilled water followed by a scuff sanding using 220. When I sprayed the dye the grain was pretty rough. I had to re-sand with 320. I ended up finishing with lacquer.

[@benjaminu12]

Is Catalyzed Varnish and Conversion Varnish the same thing?

[@WoodGuy]

Yes, both the same type of product, just different wording to explain that you have to add Catalyst to start the drying process.

[@mlasch1478]

Oh Darn, I just watched this whole video and thought I was going to get some tech info in detail about spraying these 2 coatings, but mostly got a blurb about the 2 mediums and then watched a sanding demo. Do you have any clips that explain the gun and settings, tip and cap size etc?

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Mark
That's the great thing about Catalized Varnish, it sprays no different than lacquer does. The main difference is that you don't have two steps, spraying a sanding sealer and then spraying lacquer over it. With Cat Varnish your sealer coat and top coat are the same product. No special gun settings or special needles. If you noticed in my video about the difference between lacquer and Catalized Varnish, I used a cheap spray gun from Harbor Freight and it works great.

[@fogsmart]

Mark, know you are busy but what products do you recommend for furniture and cabinet panels with MDF panels where the finish is to be a solid color?

[@WoodGuy]

MDF veneered panels won't expand and contract like solid wood will so you can use a lacquer and save money. I'm so spoiled using Catalized varnish that I don't even have any lacquer laying around. But even if I used a veneered panel somewhere on the piece I was making there would be a solid wood top so I'd be using the Cat Varnish on it.......hope that helps.

[@chazbickel4518]

Thanks for this video. I have a question regarding waterbase. Yes the grain raise is an issue which can result in another spray application, but when it comes to durability / longevity, isnt a 2k Polyurethane a better finish? Also no solvent off gassing. I think it also depends on what you're finishing when it comes to material selection. I would be interested in your thoughts.
Thanks again!

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Chaz....My issue with hard products like Lacquer and Polyurethane is that they don't move with the wood, they end up shattering over time. Soft woods expand and contract even more than hardwoods do. I make nothing but solid wood products, rarely do I use a veneer, so for that reason I really like Conversion Varnish because it moves with the wood without shattering. Not to mention it's impervious to household chemicals. I'm not knocking Polyurethane and lacquer, they have their uses. Polyurethane is a really hard product, especially trying to sand between coats. With Cat Varnish you're sealer coat is also the top coat and Cat Varnish sands easily between coats. Drying time, minutes with Cat Varnish. depending on the climate, overnight with Polyurethane. Hope you see where I'm going with my comments, I like to work with products that make my life easy and cut down my work load and quality is high on my list, Cat Varnish checks all those boxes. Thanks for taking the time to watch the video!

[@mcclurej881]

Water rings can be removed in lacquer finishes by applying a retarder to the spot. Also, any solvent that evaporates will raise the grain of wood. It's just that water takes much longer to evaporate than say, alcohol, or lacquer thinner. Raising the grain is not a bad thing, as well. Once it's raised and sanded flat again and cleaned then you end up with a smoother flatter finish. That being said I still prefer solvent based finishes for a number of other reasons. Very informative video.

[@thewaltbrownellchannel9318]

You can add a flex agent to lacquer. (Castor oil) it wont crack. They use it for fabric covered aircraft. it would be interesting to try a flex agent in Catalyzed Lacquer. The product i use is Dave Brown Flex All. I will try it in a catalyzed Lacquer one day in the future and see what happens. Catalyzed lacquer is not flexible at all. It will crack like an eggshell. Plasticized lacquer can be folded in half and not break!

[@WoodGuy]

Interesting concept, I wouldn't try it on anything important like a piece of furniture, but on a sample board of pine would be a good test. Then there's the cost breakdown.....should be interesting, good luck!

[@z.a.dewitt8664]

Thanks for the video. I just discovered catalyzed varnish (as you said, it's not well known) but some comments I've read is that it's very dangerous and shouldn't be used in homes / for most amateur users. Do you have any comments on that? For the record, I'm trying to find a topcoat for durability for some trim I'm putting shellac on, but I'm getting conflicting info on what would be best!

[@WoodGuy]

I've been in the woodworking industry for over 50 years and have been using Cat Varnish since the early 90's and never once heard anybody say it's dangerous in any way. The only thing it could be is someone in the finish manufacturing industry making a competing finish not happy with the advantage of using Cat Varnish over say, lacquer. The chemical reaction during the drying process is pretty potent, but that usually happens when you spray inside a cabinet and trap the smell inside, you open the door and get a blast of stink. Since most finished items don't end up inside someone's house the day it's finished, it would be a rare occasion. But even lacquer give off fumes during the drying process. Let's use a ridiculous occasion where Cat Varnish could be considered "dangerous", as would gasoline oven cleaner and lots of other items. If you were to finish a cabinet with Cat Varnish and then stick your head in the cabinet after finishing it and left your head there for a period of time you could probably not make your lungs or your eyes very happy. So yes, in that case, it's dangerous. Just like a plastic grocery bag can be if you stuck your head in it and taped it around you neck.

[@WoodGuy]

Sorry, I answered your question with a bit of sarcasm in my prior response. To answer your question, once you use cat varnish you'll be hooked, it's that good. Just let it air out for a while before you bring it in the house so you don't have to deal with the chemical reaction smell, it's pretty potent in a confined space when it hasn't had a chance to air out.

[@Shneebly]

Most CVs contain formaldehyde, which is indeed dangerous. The danger while spraying is mitigated by wearing a proper mask, which you should be doing with any finish, so that is not unique. However, what is unique to CV/formaldehyde (so is likely what the OP heard about) is that it off-gasses for a long time after application (in contrast, a 2K Poly is toxic during application but does not offgas long after). I use CV frequently, and it does reek of formaldehyde even days later.

[@jefferyhunter1665]

Would you use catalyzed varnish on kitchen cabinets?

[@WoodGuy]

Absolutely, yes!

[@TheCaywood3]

Thank you

[@BGraves]

Know of any/tried any pre-catalyzed varnish in aerosol can?

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Brian...that probably won't ever happen. Because cat varnish requires a catalyst to start the hardening process it would be a very difficult thing to do in an aerosol can, dispensing just the right amount of both with a push of a plunger and have them mixed together.

[@dannyjohnson4871]

I'm about to build a dining table using 8/4 hard maple. I want to maintain the lighter look of the maple. How would you go about finish it? Do you recommend any type of tung oil or any thing before the catalized varnish is applied? Love your videos.

[@WoodGuy]

Sounds great! If I was making it I wouldn't use anything but a top coat showing the character of the Maple and Catalized Varnish will protect it better than any other topcoat, if somebody puts a sweaty glass on your beautiful table, you won't care, because it won't harm the finish. Another great thing about just top coating the wood is if you get a scratch in your finish you won't have to worry about sanding through the stain to the raw wood and then trying to make the repair by trying to match the years old stain you used initially.
Maple doesn't take stain very well, especially a product like Watco Oil or other oil wiping stains, it turns out blotchy, it's just the nature of the maple. Most manufactures will use a dye type stain that dyes the wood and hides most of the character of the wood but keeps the look consistent. Here's a tip you might like. If you want to have a little color to the maple you can add an little oil based colorant or stain to the Catalized Varnish, just make sure it's not a jell stain, stir it well and spray the color as part of the sealer coat and top coat. Make sure you do a test piece to make sure you get the color you want, you'll be spraying two coats, the sealer coat and then the top coat. You might end up with too much color with two coats with the color tint mixed in, so do a test using two coats to see if the finished look is what you're after. Worst case you can do a tinted sealer coat and no color tint applied to the top coat. Here's another tip. I live in Arizona where the summers are seriously hot, what I do is back off on the hardener to give me some open time, otherwise the first pass starts to dry before I can even come back with the next pass. Same is true for winters, it gets cold and it takes a lot longer for the Catalized varnish to dry, so I increase the amount of hardener I use to speed up the drying time, it takes practice to know how much more you can add take away, a little tiny bit more or less has an obvious effect in how long it takes to dry . I've been using the product so long I know what I can get away with, the more you use it, the better you'll get knowing how it behaves. I've had the sales rep visit me and I mentioned how I manipulate the hardener depending on the climate. You should of seen his reaction....no, you can't do that, you have to maintain one ounce to the quart. Rather than spend a half an hour explaining that he's wrong I just said, well, the more you use it the more you'll learn about the stuff.
I bought a little pint cup spray gun from Harbor Freight I use to do small project and it's great for playing around with tests. I would love to see your table when it's done.

[@dannyjohnson4871]

Thank you so much for a through explanation. I will certainly send you photos after i complete the project. However, i'm now toying with either a cherry or mahogany top on the table with the hard maple base (this is probably going to be a trestle table with 2 inch maple structures). I saw a photo of a beautiful table with a mahogany top and light colored maple base. They compliment each other well, especially leaving the maple more natural. If I go with that combination, what do you suggest for cherry or mahogany finish on the top of the table? One more question. I just built a Maloof inspired cherry rocker and a walnut rocker. Any suggestions for finishing those? Again, I really appreciate your input. Danny @@WoodGuy

[@WoodGuy]

Good thinking, cherry and maple would be a terrific look together. Over time the cherry will darken naturally and be absolutely stunning. It'll be stunning the day you apply the top coat. I love trestle tables, many years ago I worked for a company that made English and French distressed reproductions of antique furniture, we made a trestle table I just loved and told myself one day I'll build one for myself. I ran their finishing department. I'd leave the cherry natural, no stain, just topcoat both the cherry and maple. I would never stain maple in a cherry stain, any scratches will unearth the blonde maple below, especially on a dining table where knives and forks are a fixture. I would hate to be the one to have to repair the damage done by errant steak knife trying to be corralled. I'm not sure why more people don't finish hardwoods naturally and stay away from staining them. Why anybody would use a stain on walnut is beyond me. Soft woods like pine or doug fir, sure, but not on hardwoods like maple, cherry and walnut, there should be a rule against it......lol. You have great taste in lumber, I would stain mahogany, it doesn't have the great character that walnut and cherry has when finished naturally. One of these days I'll get around to making a video of how to distress furniture to make them look a hundred years old. Most think distressing is done by beating the wood with a length of chain, uh uh, it's an involved thought out time consuming process and the type of distressing depends on what you built. Finishing a distressed piece is also a multi step finishing process with a lot going on between coats to make the piece look like an authentic antique.

[@stucorbett7905]

Banana Boat sun block will take convarnish off. Probably the alcohol.

[@woodycox5496]

Hello, I have an Iwata LPH400 134LV gun. It is an HVLP. The fluid nozzle is a 13 which I assume means 1.3. I want to spray the conversion varnish. What fluid nozzle size do you recommend? Thanks

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Woody
Use the needle you have in the gun now doing a small test mix on the same material (wood) you're going to be spraying. Most manufacturers figure you're going to spray a thinner material than Catalized Varnish, so they include a needle that will work well with lacquers and stains. By doing a test you'll be able to tell if the needle gives you a nice fluid coat or not. I've been using a conventional gun so long that I prefer it over an HVLP gun. You get used to having the material under the gun and it's hard to get used to having that cup over the gun. It also helps that I have a 2 quart pressure pot for bigger projects so I don't have to stop to reload the cup. Binks used to charge an arm and both legs for a 2 quart set-up, but thanks to harbor freight you can pick up one for under a hundred dollars. I only use it when I absolutely have to because of the extra acetone you have to use to clean the lines. I used to use nothing but a Binks 69 gun, that was a great gun, it's long gone now. You can pick up harbor freights gun they call "heavy duty" and it works great, It's not an HVLP gun though if that's what you're used to. Us old farts find what works and we don't like to change. Good luck, I hope your current set-up works for you. One of the things I love about Cat Varnish is the ease in which is sands, you get a run in your project (which is really hard to do with Cat Varnish because it's got such a high solid content), you can sand it out without a trace. You can't do that with lacquer, lacquer is so darn hard it's impossible to sand out a run without messing up the area around the run.

[@aaronfuksa2047]

Man, i think i want to use pre-catalized lacquer over acrylic enamel spray paint?, something quick curing, maybe that water based precat lacquer verson of general finishes brand....need to find out.🤔
I'm not sure if it will work, but seems like a solution for slightly burying layers & maybe sanding the next day before the industrial finishing coat.
I could use sanding sealer, but all i see is pure lacquer...not good over acrylic enamel.

[@WoodGuy]

HI Aaron......the acrylic enamel spray paint, is that a clear finish? I haven't tried using catalized varnish over enamel, I wonder if they're compatible. I'm picturing you having something you want to coat over, if that's the case, doing a test is a problem unless you had a flat drawer face you could do a test on. My issue with lacquer is that sanding it off is miserable, using lacquer thinner to cut through it is really messy. It's one of the reasons I really like Catalized Varnish, it sands easily and doesn't plug up the sand paper trying to remove it like lacquer does. If you did have something flat you could sand off you could try scuff sanding the acrylic enamel, then giving it a coat of Cat Varnish and see what happens. Just make sure to go over the test piece with paint thinner prior to a test to make sure there's no old wax or residue on the test piece. Let me know what you end up doing, I'm curious to find out.

[@aaronfuksa2047]

@@WoodGuy yes thats what i meant.. catalyzed varnish. I got two methods to use it over acrylic enamel spray paints (no slow rustoleum paints ).
I will be sanding my coats with (600-800grit). I imagine guitars need this, but it for my outdoor art.
"First" I thought I'd try layering it on 1-2 day rush dried acrylic & colored enamels, & try sanding on top of the clear with a much coarser grit to make sure a solid mechanical bond is available for the industrial tough clear top coating.
▪︎The other idea was to apply over a silver enamel paint, and apply a tack coat for metalic flakes, & as well as bury over them. Then sand & go in with my candy color paints & industrial sealer.
I'm looking forward to finding a compatible clear filler, with less down time & no gumming up sand paper. I'll try to let you know if a test or manufacturer says it may work.

[@victorvek5227]

General Finishes says that standing water WILL degrade their catalyzed enduro varnish.

[@WoodGuy]

HI Victor.....I've never used General Finishes varnish and I wouldn't call their product Cat Varnish if water damages it. It's good know there's inferior Cat Varnishes out there claiming to be the real thing when it's obviously a lessor version, so thanks for the heads up.

[@woody1797]

Are these the products that you recommend?
* MegaVar White Conversion Varnish (1S.75X Series) - I prefer Satin finish
* Catalyst (1A.822)

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Howie You have the brand right but make sure you have the color or clarity right. I use water white in a Semi Gloss and the numbers on the can for that are 1M.4306

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Again Howie Here is what you want: Satin Conversion Varnish (1M.430X Series) I gallon.

[@woody1797]

@@WoodGuy Thanks, Wood Guy, that's the same product that the Lenmar help desk suggested. Do you know what the difference is between the 430X Series varnish and the 630X Series?

[@WoodGuy]

Hi again Howie......... the 630 series allows you to build a thick finish in multiple steps. In distressed furniture for example, to make the piece look old it requires tinting, fly speck, and other steps that builds up the finish between each of those steps. You end up with a thicker finish. The 430 series can be as thick as 5mm, as far as I'm concerned, that's extreme, almost plastic looking and not practical but you can go that thick with the 430 series. You'll be very happy with the 430 series, but it's good knowing the difference between them.

[@woody1797]

@@WoodGuy Thanks for the expert advice, WG. I'll let you know how my guitars turn out.

[@martyjosephson4937]

I learned alot, thank you for sharing. The can says "White Water" is that suppost to be clear? and second I believe it is suppost to be "1 Gallon" and shows 124 fl oz, not 128 fl oz which we know is a gallon by measurement. Is that true?

[@WoodGuy]

I think they do that for possible tinting and then the catalyst in the event you're going to be mixing the entire gallon.
Yep, water white means whatever it is, it's clear. You'd think they'd call it water clear, go figure.

[@martyjosephson4937]

@@WoodGuy Thanks for the answer,, makes sense about the tinting or catalyst addition. Stay safe, Stay Healthy.

[@olrassler]

Wow, just came across your vid. Thank you for assembling!! I just stripped and stained 10 antique mahogany dining room chairs and was looking for more information about spraying cat lacquer with my hvlp. They have cross pieces on the back (of course) requiring lots of detailed sanding. Your recommendation for conversion varnish has me thinking of spraying varnish. I like the idea of spraying twice (sealer and top coat) instead of 4 times with cat lacquer (sealer and three more coats). I will make a turntable so I can spin without having to move around. Will the varnish finish be more resistant to dents/scratches, I have had to steam out a lot of dents and sand. Welcome any suggestions. Also do you need to use a retarder with the varnish? A little worried about runs on the verticals, any suggestions for managing any that appear?

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Cliff.....Runs with cat varnish are hard to achieve because of it's high solid content, if you do get one you'll love how easily they can be sanded out. You can't say that about a run in lacquer. You can spray cat varnish even in the 50's without a retarder. They don't recommend it (a cover their butt thing) but I've done in many times. Cat Varnish is going to spoil you like it did me, once you use it you won't want to use anything else. You won't love the price, but it's worth every nickel. What I really like is using the same product for a sealer coat and top coat. You don't need a tack cloth because any minor residue from sanding the sealer coat becomes part of the top coat. I just make sure to run over the piece with an old piece of a T-Shirt or something like that while using my air nozzle to make sure I remove as much of the sanding and steel wool process as possible and to make sure any shards left behind from the steel wool are removed. I'd scuff sand the sealer coat with 320 sand paper and then #0000 steel wool. 220 paper works fine, but I get better results with 320 paper. You're turntable idea is a very good one, we did that in the factory because we could spray with entire chair without touching it. To level the chairs after nailing in the vinyl foot we use a thick piece of glass to set the chair on to determine which legs if any needed filing. Once you use cat varnish you're going to be spoiled and you won't be spraying anything else. All finishes are only as hard as the wood under it, mahogany is pretty hard so no issues there. Let me know how it works out. Thanks for putting up with my rookie quality video. Gary

[@tonyworkswood]

Have a look at my turrntable it's a no brainer. NO OVERSPRAY UNDERNEATH. Make one, you'll love it. tony

[@BEARDEDTECHY]

Can you brush on catalyzed varnish?

[@WoodGuy]

Nope, can't brush the stuff, spray only.

[@TheCaywood3]

any videos on steps of distressing, glaze,crackle,wormholes,ect. thanks

[@WoodGuy]

I'll go ahead and do a sample of distressing and explain the steps in a crackle finish, thanks for asking.

[@jimknowles5483]

Thanks

[@aubreyblackii1129]

Thanks for the Video. I am getting read to try using the pigmented Lenmar MegaVar 1S.75X on a set of kitchen cabinets. From talking to cabinet guys, they usually use two coats as you reference in your video. However, the data sheet does reference a 1S.750 Undercoater. My question is have you ever used the Undercoater and is it necessary? I've been told its not do to the MegaVar 1S.75X being a self sealing system. Thanks in Advance!

[@WoodGuy]

I haven't used their tint/pigmented product but it would have to have some pretty spectacular properties for me to buy it when it's always better to have topcoat handy instead of looking at a can of undercoat wishing it was topcoat. I would ask Lenmar what properties their undercoat has that their topcoat doesn't. Their topcoat sands so easily that I can't imagine their undercoat being any easier to sand/prep for a topcoat.

[@jasonadams4110]

Wood Guy isn’t the pigmented conversion varnish a top coat?

[@WoodGuy]

@@jasonadams4110 Yes, it just means they've added a coloring tint to the product. Why someone would want it, unless it was the color of the wood they're finishing is beyond me. If I wanted my conversion varnish tinted I'd do my own tinting. The problem with tinting is you can't repair a small area easily, you'd have to put a lot of time and effort making the repair look like the rest of the piece. Clear finishes is the way to go, or the phrase they use in the industry is, water white, which means clear.

[@jasonadams4110]

Wood Guy Thank you for the quick response. I do agree with you however for some reason colored cabinets seem to be the new preference for today’s kitchen cabinetry. I am not familiar with tinting my lacquer or varnish. I would love to see you tint your varnish showing the process as well as the ingredients. Thanks again

[@WoodGuy]

@@jasonadams4110 I recently use catalized varnish from my source that's tinted white to paint table legs on a table I was asked to do by my son's better half. I'm really impressed with it, it's exactly like spraying water white conversion varnish except it's actually white, talk about a beautiful finish, no special steps involved, it sprays exactly like spraying the water white version.

[@latouselatrec]

Nice video. Is conversion varnish the same as post catalyzed lacquer?

[@WoodGuy]

No, Conversion varnish is nothing like lacquer. Post catalized lacquer is still lacquer, just that is uses a catalist in the drying process.

[@latouselatrec]

@@WoodGuy thank you .I'm the sprayer at my shop. I recommended going to con varnish for our wood tops and got the ok

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Mark, your company is going to thank you, it's great stuff. If you have any questions as time goes on, just ask, I'll be happy to help.

[@latouselatrec]

@@WoodGuy thank you

[@latouselatrec]

@@WoodGuy can you use water-based grain filler with conversion varnish if you wait 24 hours

[@jameswilliams5982]

What about PRE CAT laquer?

[@WoodGuy]

Hi James, Pre-Catalized lacquer is still lacquer and that means it's hard and non flexible and won't move when it's put on real wood that moves. You'll end up with a shattered finish before long. Put it on a veneer and no problem, lacquer works fine, although it's not going to stand up to a sweaty water glass but the Cat Varnish laughs at water and any other chemical you have in the home. Not so with lacquer. Hope that answers your question.

[@garryallan824]

@@WoodGuy completely false!

[@csh8856]

What grit sandpaper do you use?

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Craig
I use 220 sandpaper for sanding the catalized varnish's first coat, then I use #0000 steel wool and the piece is ready for the top coat.

[@BlueOriginAire]

Wood Guy ,
Let me see if l understand you correctly.
If i were to take a piece of old furniture, which has a very smooth wood feel. Can l simply sand and prep it for the catalyzed varnish first coat, followed by your 220 grit, plus the 0000 steel wool rub down, followed by another coat of fresh cat/varnish ?
If so, can l then put two top coats of a base color coat ( Black in my case) ..... ?
If so, the rest that’s left for me to do is to follow my usual steps for adding clear coat , wet sanding, rubbing compound etc.
My question is:
Does the cat./var. application get me to the base color coats faster?? Less coats of primers, sanding, and all those thin layers of primer coats l would normally spends days on ???
If that is what is being saved by this super-quick-dry product and super time saving steps, then l totally am shocked by all that l learned from your excellent tutorial. 🙌🏼🤪🤯

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Will.....you nailed it, all there is to it is prepping your piece for a sealer coat, sand the sealer coat with either 220 or 320 sand paper, 220 works great. then using #0000 steel wool go over the piece again. the steel wool will take care of any little misses spots. Now it's ready for a top coat, that's all there is to it. You can tint the catalized varnish, but it has to be an oil/solvent based tint if you're using a solvent based catalized varnish. If you tint I wouldn't tint the top coat, I'd only tint the sealer coat/coats and No wet sanding. If you're finishing say, oak, that has a very porous structure and you want to fill in the open grain you can sand the sealer coat a little more aggressively, steel wool and then apply what would end up being a second sealer coat, sand that until you no longer see any recesses in the finish where the open grain was, steel wool the piece again and apply a third coat which will end up being your top coat. What you did was the equivalent of 2 1/2 coats because you cut through a lot of the first sealer coat down to the point there's very little grain recesses showing in the piece, the second sealer coat will fill in what the first coat didn't. Remember to apply pressure when you use the steel wool, you can profile the piece and see the sheen difference where the steel wool didn't get applied with equal pressure the surrounding area did. You prep the sealer coat to perfection and your top coat will be perfect too.

[@woody1797]

@Wood Guy What grade of sandpaper do you use for the scuff sanding step?

[@WoodGuy]

I use 220 and then #0000 steel wool

[@woody1797]

@@WoodGuy Great, thanks. Great video. I am planning to finish two guitars using your method. I found out that Taylor Guitars use conversion varnish on some of their guitars with a satin finish.

[@WoodGuy]

Smart move by Taylor, you don't finish something either important to you, expensive or made out of solid wood in lacquer, you'll end up regretting it. I don't blame people for using lacquer, they aren't told the pros and cons. Cat varnish is used and known mainly to professional finishers and can't be applied with a brush, it has to be sprayed on and a lot of people selling finishing products like Home Depot and others don't carry it. I was really impressed with how fast it dries and being able to use the same product for the sealer coat and top coat. You have to bite the bullet when you see how much the stuff is compared to lacquer, but if you're after quality it's worth every dime. Glad I was able to help you Howie know what catalized varnish is. Let me know how your guitars turn out, first time around using it, spray a sample board to get the volume and distance away from your piece figured out.

[@woody1797]

@@WoodGuy Will do. I've never sprayed before, but I have friends who have.

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Howie, I use Harbor Freights heavy duty spray guy, you can find either a 20% off or a 25% off coupon online. They have a heavy duty automotive version, don't get that one, get this one: www.harborfreight.com/32-oz-heavy-duty-multi-purpose-air-spray-gun-69704.html?_br_psugg_q=heavy+duty+spray+gun

[@BlueOriginAire]

What brand of catalyzed varnish are you applying in this video ?
Thanx. Looking forward to using it asasp.

[@WoodGuy]

It's Lenmar and the product is called Megavar. Don't forget to buy the catalyst at the same time so you don't have to pay for the extra shipping. I like the semi gloss but it comes in all sheens.

[@trevorallen5988]

It's literally sitting in the table in the video

[@wileyseifert5769]

Can you do repair work with lacquer over it

[@WoodGuy]

No, you'd have to strip it down to bare wood. Remember, the Varnish flexes with the wood, lacquer won't. It's why catalized varnish is so good for solid wood. Lacquer is great for veneered material, not so much for solid wood projects.

[@roofermarc1]

I wish you would spray a piece for me to see how it’s done. Im using Sherwin Williams brand of cat var, water white. I’ve sanded it all off and started over for the second time. Don’t think I’m getting it thick enough. Says 4 mil, that’s to thin for me.

[@WoodGuy]

Hi, I will definitely do that for you, give me until this weekend and it'll be posted on Monday.

[@WoodGuy]

Hi Bruno, I was planning on spraying a piece today and post it in the morning, but it was 117 today, so I'll spray in the morning and post the video in the afternoon.

[@roofermarc1]

You don’t have to film a spray session. I’ve sanded off and re-sprayed 3 times and it is good now. I wasn’t getting it thick enough allegedly. It has a little orange peel effect and need advice on rubbing out?

[@WoodGuy]

Ok, great, I use a cheap Harbor Freight spray gun, they call it their 'Heavy Duty" version, it does a great job for about 18 dollars with one of their 20% off coupons, also I adjust my pressure to the gun to about 55 pounds of air to aid the gun in siphoning the varnish with it's heavy solid content. If you need anything else, let me know.

[@WoodGuy]

@@roofermarc1 Sorry Bruno, I totally forgot about asking about smoothing out an orange peel problem. If it's a flat piece it's pretty easy, use a 320 grit paper and go over the whole panel, wipe off the sanding dust, see if it's nice and flat and if not go over it again until you're almost satisfied, then take #0000 steel wood and go over the piece applying pressure and that should give you perfection. Here's a professionals tip on bringing back the sheen you desire because you just killed the original sheen in these steps. Saturate a pad of #0000 steel wool with a not too thick or heavy furniture wax, your paint store will carry some. Take the soaked in wax steel wool pad and go over your piece, don't use a heavy touch, just a light rub down, you'll bring back some sheen, if you want more sheen, using that same light touch, move faster, like your hand is a buffer, you're sheen will increase. It takes practice to get it perfect, but it works and you won't have to go back and apply another coat of Cat Varnish, especially if that orange peel coat built up too thick a finish. If the orange peel coat isn't a thick coat and you want a thicker finish when done, then after you've smoothed out the orange peel skip the wax step and just apply another coat of Varnish.

[@nicksinderson3302]

I work as a professional wood finisher and have for the last 45years and l'm sorry to say much of your info is either dead wrong or mostly wrong.

[@WoodGuy]

arrogant much? I've been at it longer than you have. But you have the right to speak.

[@nicksinderson3302]

@@WoodGuy l have a question for you; is it more arrogant to point out the ill informed you tuber for his inaccurate information?, or to be that ill informed you tuber who puts out inaccurate information?
I'd suggest you do more research, study it and your credibility will improve.
If you want to know my bonafides, dm me and l'll send you pictures of my work.

[@WoodGuy]

@@nicksinderson3302 Well Nick, you seem to be full of yourself. As for my work, it's all over the world, in President's homes, celebrities homes.....you might not have noticed, but the people who have tried Catalized Varnish after reading my post seem very pleased with the results. Not a single person has had a complaint. I manufactured fireplace mantels for the building industry and retail stores for almost 20 years and in that time I have "never" had a return or a complaint, not one! In my youth I've run a finishing department for a huge high end furniture manufacturer, I've made cabinets for Hammond Organs.... I've operated practically every machine in the woodworking industry. Instead of telling me how wrong I am, why not spend your time on your TH-cam channel telling everybody how great you are, like you're doing here.

[@nicksinderson3302]

@@WoodGuy ok here goes; (l didn't watch all of it)
1) you stated that cold water glass blush rings were impossible to remove from a lacquer finish...not true; 10-15% butyl cellusolve in either butyl acetate or MAK then lightly misted on will remove the blush after 1-3 applications usually with invisible results.
2) you said CV(Conversion Varnish) is flexible and not as hard as lacquer. That's wrong CV is very hard. It protects wood by keeping moisture out due to it's densely packed cross linked structure. If moisture does get past the film, CV will crack quickly. That is also why most CV's have a maximum flilm finish limit.
3) you stated that you don't like WB (water borne) CV because of grain raise especially on closed grain woods like maple ect...actually close grain woods grain raise is considerably less on closed grain woods then open grain woods especially quatersawn and drift. Of course the grain raise can be mitigated by either pre-wetting the wood and sanding back or just using a coat of lacquer vinyl sealer first.
This is where l quit watching.
It sounds like similar career paths for l too have worked in the homes of the leaders of business and finance and their trust fund offspring. I also have had pieces in my shop that are now located on every continent (except Antarctica) plus a couple of islands. I have pictures.
Good luck 'Wood Guy'

[@WoodGuy]

@@nicksinderson3302 I wasn't making the video for pros. How many people do you know that have those chemicals at home. Why deal with the water ring when you don't have to. That was my point with that part of the video. Happy New Year, Nick.

[@garryallan824]

Comment regarding lacquer on solid wood is completely false. You do realize people have been using lacquer on solid wood for 100 years (me personally for 48 years). When introduced, shellac and oil finishes were the topcoats of choice. EVERYTHING expands and contracts. I started spraying automotive lacquer on cars (restored 23) and furniture (master furniture / cabinet maker) over 40 years ago, still have projects today looking new. I hear more false information online from people who truly don’t know what they are talking about. I have and continue to use just about every type of finish and have tested more than I can remember. I won’t argue that for durability CV is near the top (call it low high end for durability), though I still use automotive PPG Deltron or similar clear urethane and that truly is the best for durability. Lacquer has its place as do all finishes, there isn’t one best finish for anything. It truly depends on what you are looking for, at times lacquer is the best finish, it certainly looks better. Deft has been making lacquer for wood for a very long time. If you don’t know then don’t speak or write. FYI, there are high solid lacquers today. Lacquer isn’t usually my first choice of topcoat, however I don’t spread false information. CV looks like shit on furniture and is one area I won’t use it. A tabletop that’s not going to be protected, it’s either CV or the real good stuff, Automobile Urethane. And I didn’t even list all of the disadvantages of CV.

[@WoodGuy]

So I guess you missed the part where I said lacquer has it's use. I owned a furniture factory, sold it, went to work for a while running a furniture manufacturers finishing plant, then started another furniture factory, so I'm pretty well versed. I was in the furniture/woodworking business for 50 years and l'm familiar with many different types of finishing and all of them have their use. I just clearly explained that Catalized Varnish is so good and easy to use that it'll spoil you, but it's expensive compared to lacquer.

[@WoodGuy]

Lacquer on solid wood over time, and not decades, but years, will shatter, period! We made high end solid wood furniture and were using lacquer because we were producing multi-step finishes like bleached pickle, rouge and many other high end finishes. As soon as we noticed shattering happening in our showrooms across the country we searched out different finishes and Catalized Varnish became our go to finish and never used lacquer again.

[@garryallan824]

@@WoodGuy I didn’t miss anything, I read what you wrote and watched part of your video. I commented on your false statements trying to set people straight with accurate information. If you’re spoiled with CV and you want to move up to the next level, use what I have been for over 40 years. And yes, there are plenty of people who post online that you can’t use automotive finishes on wood...LOL

[@garryallan824]

@@WoodGuy You very obviously didn’t know what you were doing because that simply isn’t the norm. I could have consulted with you back then and probably determined what you were doing incorrectly. I have cabinetry and furniture all over the country with lacquer on it. And numerous cars. Yes, metal expands and contracts! Lol. It’s possible you were using a cheap product, poor application, incorrect mix, cheap thinner, additives, poor prep work, etc. No doubt CV is lots more durable and the finish of choice for lots of factories, it’s quick and very durable. Still looks like shit as does aluminum oxide, but it’s durable. I completely understand. I could spray 30-40 coats of lacquer (each hand rubbed) and it wouldn’t give me the durability of urethane, however my first show caliber paint jobs from 40 years ago still look new today. The more coats of lacquer one applies the more susceptible it is to crazing. However, it can be repaired.

[@WoodGuy]

@@garryallan824 I don't remember mentioning anything about automotive lacquer in my video, I didn't mention aviation finishes either. Why not do your own video and explain using automotive finishes on wood furniture, but make sure to mention the differences in price too.

[@markwest5517]

Aw, c'mon, Wood Guy. I watched on TV so can't get to comments where my very obvious questions are likely to be answered. Shouldn't have to go to comments to glean this info from video.
What grit sandpaper are you using? At least we were given the steel wool number. Are you going to clean up the sanding dust? You better. How are you going to do it? Yes, water based products raise the grain. I'd rather raise the grain than blow up the house by spraying a solvent based product. What safety procedures are you using to prevent this? Any respirator? Any equipment cleaning procedures in place? And so on... Geez...

[@WoodGuy]

I'm pretty sure I did mention that I use 220 grit paper to sand the sealer coat......because I use the same product for the sealer coat and top coat there's no need for a tack cloth, blow off the piece making sure you didn't leave any fibers from the steel wool behind and you're good to go. When I had my business I had a spray booth and yes, wearing a respirator is always a good idea in a closed area. Cleaning the spray gun after every use is common sense and that's done with an ounce of either acetone or M.E.K., slosh it around, spray a few squirts though the gun and your done.

[@jimknowles5483]

Mark West
Relax, this is nor an encyclopedia covering every detail. He is giving great advice and info....! Do some your own footwork. At least without the critical attitude!!