It's awkward because you can't really address where he's coming from without acknowledging the existence of this entire nuts internet platform. and then you get caught up talking about it.
This is kind of a pivot but didn't he make a bunch of descriptive claims and no normative ones? He kept saying, this is how it happens but never gave his opinion on whether it was right or wrong. That is ironic because it is exactly what he criticizes Jordan Peterson on.
That's the point. They want to make it seem as divided as possible while giving the most milquetoast Both Sides end-point as possible to fish in the maximum audience with their nets. They have no interest in figuring out the truth in the given scenario, or even in helping people come to true conclusions.
I agree with the man feminist but there are virtually no women MRAs because MRAs are almost all dudes who think the movement being called feminism means that the people in it hate men
@@pennyw2226 Have you hung around in an online mra space or gone to an mra convention to arrive at this belief? There are actually tons of women in the movement. Also do you really believe that's why mra's hate feminists?
Hard to find women in men's rights movements. Feminism is better carried out by women. Plus on a topic like that it can't hurt to have equal number of men and women.
I think it's extremely difficult for (many) men to understand how unpleasant unwanted attention can be when they can go their entire lives without getting any type of attention from the opposite sex. Men and women definitely face unique social issues when it comes to dating, and you do have to actively make an effort to empathize with the opposite gender in these situations, and I can see why to a lot of men, when they realize the thing they want the most (attention, affection), can actually be an absolute nightmare to some women, have a difficult time finding that level of empathy and understanding. Like if you're dying of thirst in a desert, then you might give anything to be the person drowning in a lake.
The opposite is also true, though. I think a lot of women, especially those that get a lot of attention for their looks, don't know how tough it can be to face rejection. I've seen a few anecdotes from bi women and the like on how hard it can be, as well. In the end, we should all strive to have empathy for one another.
@@onalos1271 Yeah, I feel that way of not feeling the connection between guys. I am so far down the road of realizing how stupid it is to avoid personal problems and issues, as well as whole this "Patriarchy" (I honestly feel disturbed still by feminists calling it that way, implying it should be good for me since I am the "right" gender for it, but I hate most of the aspects of this system and got hurt a lot by it) but still feel that if I would be so close to someone it would be "gayish" (not like I am afraid to be gay, but I feel like this type of connection would be trying to establish relationship) like it's something in my subconscious.
@@onalos1271 You're right that men need their own spaces and they used to have those. It's just that women have invaded most of them by now. Latest example that comes to mind are the "boy" scouts. The thing is that men's behavior changes as soon as you introduce a woman to a group. Men need some time away from women so they can talk honestly with other men. There are just things men won't say when women are around out of fear of appearing weak. And this fear is legitimate. Women will totally judge a man who comes across as weak or vulnerable. In fact it turns them off. You may say otherwise but many men have come to learn that what women say they want and what they actually want are often two different things. Some of these women might even believe themselves that they want their man to be more emotional/vulnerable/etc with them. But then they lose respect for him the moment he shows them his emotional side. Maybe some women really do like their man to be emotional/vulnerable/etc with them but that has to be the exception. It seems like these women want their man to also be their girlfriend. Regarding "game" I agree that it's not a positive development. But have you thought about why it even is a phenomenon nowadays when it didn't used to be? 60 years ago the majority of women used to be dependent on their husband financially. That was often a big incentive to keep the marriage going (also no-fault divorce wasn't a thing back then). Queue the sexual revolution and as it becomes more accepted people are having more and more sex outside of marriage. Add some more feminism into the mix and now most women work and earn their own money. So women are no longer dependent on a man and no longer need to marry early in life. All that lead to more promiscuity. Women are now giving away their pussy more readily. (In fact my own grandpa told me that perhaps he wouldn't have married my grandma had people been as promiscuous back then as they are today.) And since women earn their own money now they have more or a choice in who they have sex with. They no longer have to go for men who are good providers and instead often choose to go for men who are good lovers. So men adapted and figured out how to make women believe they are good lovers and lots of women fall for them. That's how we got to where we are today. Men haven't changed that much. It's mostly women that changed. And you can blame feminism. I hope it was worth it.
@@onalos1271 I agree with you for the most part, but I wanna react to one thing: "but men seem to often "game" women, like prey they are trying to conquer instead of having a genuine connection" Thats because men are inredibly horny. As a man, part of me would like to fuck every single attractive girl that I come across. Every single one. Sure, women has sexuality too, but its quite a bit different and it comes from our biological programming. The other guy was actually right about how men start to act differently as soon as a girl is introduced to a group, and sure that kinda sucks, but its really really hard not to change the way you act when you are around women as a heterosexual man. I personally can barely talk around women lol. Men's physical attraction to women is simply incredibly strong, and Im not necessarily saying this as an excuse, its just something to keep in mind. Its kinda fucked up, but the frustration that comes purely from this physical tension itself is quite a bit to handle, I honestly think that thats the root to all these problems, it is that simple. Generally speaking if you desire something so badly, just in a physical level, you just take it. Like, if you are thirsty, get some water. You see a nice cake you wanna taste, buy it. But its a bit different when what you desire is another human being. In the animal world "sex" and "rape" is FAR less distinguished if you think about it. But humans are a weird ass phenomenon, we are self consious and intelligent. Imo figuring out how to "properly" handle sexuality, bringing this mess up to the level of intellectuality is one of the greatest challanges of our species, because as easy as it sounds, its actually not that easy. Either way, sorry about all the bullshit, we dont mean it.
I'm not sure what the solution should be to the increase of people being lonely these days, but I think I can pretty confidently say that regressing back to cultural norms from 70 years ago is not it.
M3phistos Cafe Ive seen a lot of my friends, especially men, gravitate towards fascist and anti-feminist influencers and communities because they feel a longing for the tribalism that comes with those older cultural norms you’re speaking of. I feel for them. The longing clearly comes from a place of loneliness.
@@kevinboyle109 Yeah, far right groups are taking full advantage of this, and are tricking men into thinking that if they support their fascist ideas it will get them laid by hot tradcon white women.
Stacey Solano that is true, but to old3nglish’s point, they will find a sense of belonging in the right. I don’t know how to break the spiral. The center-left offers nothing for my friends. My brother feels hated in his own culture, even though most people would consider him the dominant social group.
Stacey Solano eh look at what just happened in the UK. This far right resurgence hasn’t pumped the breaks. I think the point for a lot of the far right incel/MR types the ultimate point is women won’t have a choice to reject them. They won’t admit that, but it’s the goal either through cultural conditioning or violence.
@@onalos1271 Very true. I am a woman who has emphathy for those antifeminists too, but mine is similar limited. The whole movement seems to be based on a feeling of entitlement to have a girlfriend. They even complain about women being more attracted to good looking men, as if men were only attacted to our inner beauty. I was an ugly looking teenager, became a lot better looking later (I kind of grew into my natually red hair) and now everywhere I go men open doors for me.
I love how the people who complain about mens outcomes in family court are the same people who say that women are naturally better care givers to children....
They don't necessarily contradict each other. You could admit that women tend to be care/nurture better, and still be against how much the court takes away from the father in most cases, it could be specifically they have a bit TOO little custody time with the child. Do you think there's a minimum amount of custody hours per week that a father should have (this varies of course but it's honestly besides the point)? If so, there is an environment for that wish to be violated.
@Andrew Stevenson how do you know he's a trump supporter, yes hes crazy to say the least, but how do you know his political views Don't assume someone's policital views just because they disagree with you on something or oppose you on something For all you know he could be a Bernie supporter
Well we live in an anarchy tyranny . The government is all powerful bit only selectively enforces laws. Guns are banned for felons but all gang members still gave guns. Our politicans are corrupt and police get away with murder.
@@browsertab indeed . I recently heard about. A swat officer and his teacher wife were busted for making child porn with his students. The worst part is his ex wife caught him in the act with a 13 year old girl and local police buried it for years. It goes high up . They want to take our guns because guns are the only way to rid ourselves of these parasites.
Everytime I've seriously considered suicide, i was completely alone everyday for months prior. Everytime ive reached peek happy, i had friends around everyday.
Im a night logger 12h per night for 7 months straight every year. Before this career i took for granted my friends, i had no idea how important they were.
Also, being strong vs emotional.. If you have no emotions, you cannot be (emotionally) strong. You are strong if you learn to control and work with those. Similiarly, you are not strong if you have no weights to lift to begin with.
Because a lot of people get triggered by destiny and want to go apeshit at him through whatever avenue they can, regardless of how legitimate. Same thing with all the "destiny is a pedophile" jokes.
The "men die significantly younger" (by like 7 years) "because of their own suppression of emotions" triggers the fk out of me coming from feminists. When your whole ideology centers around you finally speaking for yourself, and believing lived experiences, and having your own voice, you can't turn around and speak for the other side. The evidence for such a claim would have to be astronomical, to even suggest the suppression of men's emotions, as a group, noticeably lower's their expected age. Evidence supporting contrary causes is insurmountable: Men (especially in previous generations, but even today) are almost always the ones sent to war, for example. PTSD from seeing your friend die on the battlefield, or seeing a child bomber, ect. ect. so greatly outweighs the foundless claim that 1. Men suppress their emotions meaningfully more than women (unfounded claim #1) 2. that the suppression of emotions like sadness will decrease your lifespan, on average, by years, and should be the primary focus in relation to men's lifespan's being shorter (unfounded #2) and that 3. It just so happens that women need to speak up FOR ThE BENIFIT OF MEN about their OWN toxic masculinity. That last part really rubs me the wrong way: if women complained about men being toxic towards women, that would be different, but they attack "masculinity" under that guise of wanting to help men truly expression their suppressed emotions which they assume all men have and feel they can't express-- It reminds me of a relationship fight, where the woman is complaining about how the man's not intimate enough to her, and must be suppressed, or thinking about someone else, but in reality he's thinking about the price of bitcoin or what he wants to eat. Another thing that undoubtedly TOWERS over "the supression of emotions" in relation to men's lifespans' is the fact that men basically do all the dangerous outside work. How many times have you seen someone filling concrete or repairing a road right next to traffic, or seen someone outside in construction garb doing risky physical labor? Probably on numerous occasions. Now how often were they men? Almost always, especially working on roads right next to traffic. **Things like dangerous construction work, going into the military, and literal male on male violence UNQUESTIONABLY outweigh "the suppression of emotions" in relation to men's lower expected lifespan.** To suggest you must read men's minds, and divine their emotional suppression in order to explain their shorter lifespans is infantilizing (ironically so, as that's the very thing they complain about men doing) and disrespectful to those who have risked their lives for the benefit of the rest of us.
I don't understand your claim about PTSD (genuinely trying to understand, not attack you). We have evidence that speaking about a traumatic event can help prevent PTSD rates, wouldn't you say that men having PTSD does speak to emotion suppression or not speaking about emotions? How would you interpret women having higher rates of PTSD (about 50% from what I've seen compared to 40% in Vietnam veterans) from sexual assault? I agree that it's a leap of logic to assume the suppression of emotions is behind lifespan claims. I think they meant suicide rates though. Which still would be inaccurate, given that women attempt suicide at the same rates. I disagree, just like you, with the claim women need to speak for the benefit of men. But in fact I've seen many contrary claims from feminists, for example that masculinity is their own problem to solve for themselves and not feminists' job to do. I know this is a comment from a year ago, sorry. I'm speaking as a woman from a country where military service is mandatory for women, by the way. And in my country, men try to limit women who want to join fighter ranks. So it seems a bit disingenuous for men to claim they do all dangerous work and women have it easy (specifically about military service) while also speaking out against women who want to do dangerous service.
@@yaeli_i_guess I actually like being brought back to old comments like this that I had forgotten about, so no need to apologize. You're right that the PTSD claim doesn't make much sense. This is largely because rates of PTSD are both inconsistent and unreliable. There are different degrees and types of trauma that can lead to PTSD, and I'd confidently claim that women are more likely to see a therapist and get diagnosed for such things. I was specifically talking about, if you reread the original comment, members of active duty on battlefields that have extreme PTSD from warfare (these are far more likely to be men). I am sure the issue is somewhat different in your country--but may still be the same in some ways--but in America at least, men represent a large majority of members of the military, and an even more extreme majority of members of active service. But that was just one example of the many GREATLY more significant contributors of men's lower lifespan--there are many more important and admirable reasons that men live shorter than women (some of them are not so admirable). But the point was that it's an unfounded, ridiculous, and disrespectful claim that the major reason for men's lower lifespan AND higher suicide rates is because they don't talk about their feelings. Men succeed in committing suicide far more than women. Women attempt suicide far more than men. Of course these are both bad, but objectively, committing suicide is worse and more serious than attempting it. They are both terrible, and attempts warrant psychological help, but because women tend to use non-violent means (like taking pills), they're less likely to die from it. My instinct is that many women who attempt it use it as an attention thing, or a immature cry for help, but that's just an assumption of mine. I'm sorry to hear that men try to limit women who want to join fighter ranks in your country. Is this "limiting" a suggestion with good intentions, or is it a policy that disallows women for certain roles simply because they are women? And also, even if this limiting wasn't taking place (like in America, where women are allowed to join any role they choose), I'd bet money there'd still be more men who went into those fighter roles. And having somewhat of a barrier to being in active combat seems like a fairly small issue, all things considered-- active combat is very undesirable to almost all people. In America, women are far less likely to join the military, and far less likely to be in fighting roles, despite being fully able to.
These middle ground videos are not useful IMO. It's just people with problematic opinions put in a room for conflict. Orchestrated clickbait. They don't harbor any decent conversation.
I think it helps to put people with ridiculous opinions in the daylight, but they could be more careful about making sure that both sides have some kind of source material and legitimate background to speak of. Random youtuber incel guy has nothing valuable to add to this discussion, but it's great to have him there because that would allow someone who knows and understands feminism can unpack his 'feels' arguments and show where they are flawed. It's disappointing that the supposedly educated feminists in this conversation can only speak out of personal experience rather than use the plethora of sociological evidence to argue their claims (e.g. that feminist organizations do a lot of good for men, or that women are still being disenfranchised and threatened in many aspects of their lives).
@@Zabuzakashi The issue with evidence and full on arguments is that they usually take time to prepare and an explicit skillset to express. Being an expert Ph.D with 30 years in a field doesn't make you a good debater in the same way that it doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher.
@@rocketrelm1125 Definitely, I'm not claiming that someone with a PhD is always the best person to make an argument. But, any researcher worth their salt should at least be quite up-to-date with the scientific evidence, or the major frameworks that are present in their discipline. These facts won't sway an ideologically convinced audience, but it's much better than just saying 'I didn't bring a list.'
@@Zabuzakashi His specific question was about specific advocacy groups and a list of their meaningful accomplishments. That's not something you can explain via the scientific evidence. The counselor would know to correctly, on the spot, say "I don't have that on hand, but I can look up the data and give you a list afterwards with some notice", but again that's not the field of scientific research. Applied and Theoretical sciences are very separated. Edit: There's honestly a nonzero percent chance she *did* say that, but they just cut it out because they need to Both Sides this argument and time constraints are a perfect excuse to use the one opportunity the mras have to look good to implement said Siding on the Both.
@@Zabuzakashi Feminist organizations doing something is not an argument for feminism, just as christian charity isn't an argument for christianity. These people aren't opposing that kind of rare feminism anyhow, but the pervasive, pop-culture kind that accomplishes nothing for anybody.
I feel like the problem is your average feminist doesn’t spend hours every day watching MRA destroyed videos. But for almost all MRAs it is a major part of their lives.
Which leads to the core reason for the divide. Misogynists use these young disgruntled men as a recruiting pool for their negative ends, and masquerade it around as 'men's rights'. Men have actual problems that need to be dealt with, but the people that would advocate for them are being picked out and lead down a hateful path instead of a good one, scared away from mra rights by the reputation those bad faith actors have, or just join links with actual feminist groups.
Stacey Solano sadly women in combat roles probably will not last, I worked in a G1 for the 1st infantry division in the army until about a month ago when I hit my ETS, and the latest reports we had from the new female combat integration trial units were significantly reduced combat efficiency in drills and almost triple the number of files of SHARP complaints with a less then a 2% arrest rate I wouldn’t be surprised if the army quietly gets rid of the program and phases women back out of combat MOS’s
You're right but I don't know if the problem lies in what videos these people watch. I feel like both can be very vitriolic and toxic and acting in a reactionary way towards the opposition. It's two sides of the same coin.
@@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274 Not to mention women aren't expected to fight, and because of affirmative action garbage they still get paid just as much for far less work.
1997lordofdoom that’s why they’re always talking about triggering the left and making the left upset. It’s some weird type of deflection. Like they feel stupid so they take so much pleasure in watching a video in which someone they disagree with looks stupid themselves. I feel like there was a better way to word that but my brain is toast from work lol
@@mr.thongsong8473 it is real. As a weaker guy, I was always told I'm girlish for not being agressive, I was abused when I showed feelings because others thought I was weak and so I wouldN#t retaliate. If there wasn't a toxic part to masculinity, then my bullies would have had noneed to prove theirmanliness by being an agressive assholes. I don't believe my masculinity today is toxic, I actually don't care about what makes me masculin. My gender really doesn't play a role in the construction of my identity. Does yours really? Do you think about being a man all the time?
@@partlycurrent No it isn't. The fact that you use bullying as evidence, in order to sway me or the people reading, shows that you do understand how unpopular it is to bully and that it doesn't advance you socially. If beating up someone weaker than you proves you're a man, everyone would do it, including you. Instead we see them as aggressive assholes, as you pointed out. Mine does and I think about it. Not all the time but especially when people attack me for being a man. Toxic masculinity is just a way for weak people to attack men. It's the new pivot for feminists after patriarchy, rape coulture and man spreading was laughed out of the room.
@@mr.thongsong8473 actually no. Its is real. And everything you said is moronic.... Just because you're the garbage person who wants to get away with bullying. Doesnt mean everyone does. Youre either completely inept. Or just a complete piece of garbage human being.
@@DeceptiveSoul I think you are misunderstanding how a term is used. Toxic masculinity refers to behavoirs associated with masculinity that are harmful (toxic). Toxic masculinity DOES NOT mean that men or masculinity is inherently toxic. In fact, the qualifier toxic implies that there are non-toxic forms of masculinity. Let me give you an example: "Men shouldn't take no for an answer" and "Men shouldn't acknowledge their feelings" are pretty harmful ideas and would probably be considered toxic. "Men should be assertive about what they want" and "men should stand up against injustice" are much less harmful and probably wouldn't be considered toxic.
I love watching Destiny's videos because he's typically less concerned with "winning" in a debate or conversation than he is in getting to the truth of a thing. There are so few people that are willing to drop their cherished intuitions. However, whenever a social issue comes up Destiny starts White Knighting hard. That's not to say that he's necessarily wrong all of the time but he seems to think less in terms of cold objective logic in favor of coming to the"underdog's" rescue. On a side note: the men's rights movement and the feminist movement should, in my opinion, never be represented as opposing viewpoints. It makes no sense to compare the plight of the two genders. It p bothers me when an MRA sweets says, "Men have higher death rates due to suicide and workplace accidents" and it's met with, "Well women can't safely walk to they're cars at night". Likewise I hate it when a feminist says, "We're at higher risk of being under diagnosed" and some guy is like, "But family court..." Both genders have problems. It's should not be reduced to a zero-sum game. We, as a society, can address society's problems without the binary categorization.
I cannot agree more, but when it comes to conversations like this, the entire purpose is to present and talk about our struggles with each other. I don't think there's anything wrong with each side bringing up their own issues, so as long as they go, "I absolutely agree with your concerns and your issues. That is something we should all work towards addressing and solving. Moving onto the next issue, I think I'm discriminated against in family court and that needs to be addressed as well." The entire point of this is to talk about our issues in a way that doesn't compare them to minimize them. I think our issues should be brought up in a way that doesn't take away from each other's issues as the conversation naturally flows to another topic. But one thing that stood out to me the most about your comment is the fact that plight, or suffering, of both genders shouldn't be pitted against the other in some manner of "My suffering is greater, therefore I'm superior to you," it should be more like, "I agree that both sides have their own issues and we need to come together and indiscriminately address them all. I do think feminism needs to be rebranded though, I feel like that name has been tarnished in a way.
@@AlaReDuS I think anti-patriarchy is a better name, feminism has gained this pretty extreme rich-liberal women cult where they think that girlbossing is the end goal of feminism. This also ends up in anti-SJW compilations which further makes more MRAs thus making the world a worse place overall.
@@mdh_masalewale8681 I personally think "egalitarianism" would work best. "Anti-patriarchy" doesn't have the same ring to it but it also works. Point is, like you said, we need to move away from the name to a different one. Otherwise we're just creating bad places online, like you said.
This Derrick guy, gives me the urge to vomit. The other 2 guys are reasonable, have good points, so do the women, besides the "I didnt bring a list... My dude" (which would be viewed as very hostile if one of the guys ended a sentence with "my girl" btw)
I have a friend who's 5ft 2. He had incredibly beautiful girlfriends, never had any problem dating. And also he was still like 110lbs at 35 yo. He's an inspiration for me on having confidence. I'm 5ft5, when I tend to self-deprecate about that, I think about him.
Steve Bergeron anecdote. Useless example. Statistics show that women are happier and prefer taller men. The shorter a man is, the less likely he is to get a date or a relationship
@@lucianraphael9527 No kidding. An anecdote, you bet it is. Its my friend! :D You missed the point.The worst thing is not one's height, but the lack of confidence caused by it. Its exactly the same as Incel distorted view of reality. And I'm sure they can find a lot of stats to prove their point, too.
Steve Bergeron it’s hard to be confident when you’re very short and have been made fun of your whole life from it. It’s hard to be confident when you’re short when women are statistically less happier if they date you. Asking a short person to “just be confident” is like asking someone with a speech impediment to “just be confident”. It’s easier said than done. Not to mention, shorter men are commonly seen as overcompensating when they are confident.
@@lucianraphael9527 You are really missing my points man. I'm sorry you feel that way. The thing is, I understand you pretty well, being short myself, having been made fun of, and having had a lot of anxiety with that. What I'm saying is: there was that guy, he was shorter than me, not particularly handsome or smart, and he DOESN'T SEEMS TO GIVE A SHIT. He simply lived his life. OF COURSE being taller he could had better outcomes overall... Or not. We'll never know. We could also been born 6ft3, blind, in a remote village of Siberia, 3 hundred years ago, you know? It could be worst. So is there something we, short people, can learn from that friend I have? I think we should! Go live your life man.
Steve Bergeron I’m not short, I’m just over 6’4. I’m saying stuff that shorter people have been saying happens in their lives. I’m not missing your point. What you’re saying is just be confident and move on with your life, it could be worse. Which isn’t much of a cheer up to short men who get less respect from society, have unhappier relationships and even get PAID less (there’s studies on this aswell). Short men have gotten the raw end of the deal in society, them being mad about that is completely justifiable.
@@ksilva2848 Most women would prefer having a female midwife when giving birth. I dont think he meant women should exclusively be midwifes, he was saying men shouldnt be midwifes. The midwife is there to comfort and tend to the mother and the child during and after birth, most women prefer another women to be the one doing this. Im not here to make the "women are more caring" argument, but all the guy was saying is he understands why some fields may be skewed in one gender. How does that relate to child custody cases?
Yeah, this is the problem with most MRAs, they complain about inequality for men, they pretend to care about these issues, but then their solution is to suport the gender roles that created that inequality in the first place. If that one guy was so concerned about women getting less years for the same crimes, for example, then why didn't he say anything when that other guy implied that women are not as capable of making decisions as men? At the end of the day, MRAs solution to seeing male inequality is not to try to fight it so we can all be equal, it is to re-stablish inequality for women to balance things out.
Women as a group should be midwives because of reason x. Any courts using reason x on individual cases is doing something wrong, clearly. How is this so hard.
"I think a lot of times, when a movement is created, the other side thinks that they're being attacked, or think that's it's, some like, attempt at a ratio, that's not what feminism is about at all. What do you need a whole Mens Rights Activism Movement for? I'm sincerely confused." ..Wow, that was actually in the final edit... not even the editors of this show are able to put this together in a way that doesn't make the feminists contradict themselves in less than 10 seconds.
There was another study (I could be mid-siting it but this was my understanding) in which they took two chimps, same diet same environment set up and everything. Only difference was one chimp was exposed to contact and love from its mother, while the other was not. Long story short the one with no contact whatsoever ended up dying because it stopped eating.
Xqc is completely wrong about the "name one" question. The feminists are literally talking about the causes of men's oppression and PhD Andy comes in claiming the feminist movement is really a Boogeyman that doesn't care about men. The feminists had pretty good answers overall and definitely had the most concrete message. I think the reason these mras had such different ideals is because the movement lacks foundation. If you deny gender role expectations as a cause of someones oppression, you are not gonna get far advocating for men or women. Mras I interact with typically spend more time complaining about not being listened to then bringing up any actual solutions. Let them speak long enough and the "just let men be men" shit usually comes out. Well the male judge believes the male criminal should tough it out serving a longer sentence.
Solutions? How about passing the ERA? Ending or equalizing the draft, making circumcision illegal, allowing men reproductive rights roughly equal to that of women such as "financial abortions"?
@@frbe0101 Feminism brings up issues like this and has more genuine and effective conversations. The problem with the MRA is its lack of a cohesive message and the fact many of its members have ulterior motives. If the MRA wants to be taken seriously it should purge the sexists from its community, but it is likely the majority. In this very debate you had Asian Andy and Bumble Bee Incel describe their toxic masculinity and wear it as a badge of honor. Imagine arguing for men not to be disposable tough guys while advocating for " Men being men, tough and willing to sacrifice." I have nothing against any MRAS that ally with feminism, but anti feminist MRAS are a bad batch and ineffective in their cause.
@@dolerbom I would say the problem with feminism is its lack of cohesive message, go to the r/gendercritical for example, attempts to purge the TERF from feminism has failed. The failure of the ERA is a great example because once tradcon women like phyllis schlafly stood up and point out the ERA would put women on the draft and strip parental custody advantages from women, quickly feminist began to split and thus the collapse of the 2nd wave by 1980. I agree that tradcons in MRA are a living hypocracy, but so is tradcons and misandry in feminism. When you have an advocacy movement for one sex you are bound to get sexists in there, who are bound to demonize the opposite sex. Anti-feminism is a counter to that misandry in feminism, it is not a counter to egalitarian ideal of equality under the law of genders (or all people) The NCFM has recently been successful in challenging the draft in a court of law: www.npr.org/2019/03/01/699481953/court-ruling-renews-debate-on-women-and-the-draft I can say we personally have been successful in advocating intactivism at baby exposes, although we are long ways from ever achieving the genital protective rights granted only to girls in this country, we at least have traction in changing the hearts and minds of new mothers one by one.
@@frbe0101 I don't disagree there are problem people in the feminist movement. In real life activism, however, the feminists have been more effective and are trying to push intersectionality. Second wave feminism is dying because it focuses on only women. I am not against the concept of men's rights activists, I just see a lot more sexists involved in that movement than I do in the feminist movement.
@@dolerbom Well then read gendercritical more, also what you see is not a statistical sample anyways, more so it is irrelevant! When feminist get rid of the draft and male circumcision, institute financial abortion and reproductive rights for men, etc, then I will actually believe they care about men to. Until then we are left with two groups who focus on issues for one sex or the other, not both. Consider for a moment in France it is illegal for a man to get a paternity test if the mother does not want it, do feminist there give a fuck?
It's actually insane how crazy americans are about height. I'm 5"6, fat and still live with my parents but had 9 girlfriends while there are americans that are 5"8 thin and independent but still never had a girlfriend. The key is confidence and being funny, nothing else matters. You could literally be a hobbo who hasn't showered for 12 weeks getting a girlfriend with those traits.
As a guy who was always funny but only recently became confident, these are personality traits someone can't just make themselves have. More likely, you just have a personality that vibes better with the women around you.
I really like the distinction you made about being emotional vs the response to those emotions. For whatever reason, I always tied being emotional with a negative response, but I think you explained it pretty gracefully.
He was silent on a lot of parts. He prolly thinks that if you are sexist and those listening to you are susceptible to sexism you should not do sexist jokes.
I know tons of guys who will swipe right for every girl on Tinder then delete them after. Its a completely different game for men and women on Tinder. Women have the chance of getting a match on way more guys because of this.
@@wisemage0 yeah right hahaha. Well, not my intention. I'm just saying what destiny said relates to my experience dating men and women. Men just match to a broader group of people
How the hell can women get more matches then men on Tinder? Every match that happens is one man and one woman. Obviously not true for non-straight people but that's not what we're talking about here.
Destiny's statements on emotional vs rational action/reaction are basically a summary of Stoicism, which afaik is a philosophy which states that in order to be successful in life, one needs to accept all things out of ones control, rationalize which actions can be taken and attempt to find and execute the objectively most optimal course of action. Emotional responses should be acknowledged, dissected into useful and useless portions, then knowing what is within ones control, one can choose a productive course of action.
@@onalos1271 usually misandrists, has closed communities that talk how all of them hate men and trying to filter their community as much as they can, while misogynists are trying to be big and loud. I think it's because on the internet there are many more men into politics watching this type of content and supporting it, while women doing the same thing feel outnumbered since there are fewer women interested in that and having a more hidden approach. But it's nothing but speculation from my point of view.
@@onalos1271 Because feminists vacate any platform where they're confronted with opposing opinion, go check out places like tumblr. Only neo-feminists behave childishly enough to warrant such videos to begin with. You can thank feminism for the # of misogynists btw, a number which is only going to keep growing as feminism grows louder and more belligerent.
yeah so what? he's an antifeminist mra what's this "gotcha" meant to be. Dudes done incredible work using title IX to stop sex based discrimination in education for years, I think that says a lot more to his character imo.
I feel like a lot of MRAs are willfully ignoring the fact that a lot of the issues they perceive as men's oppression come about as a result of the very structures feminism seeks or at least should seek to challenge/destroy
@Ult_R4nger 94 cool well I think you mean exacerbated and also the duluth model was made almost forty years ago. It doesn't take into account a lot of things that it ought to in order to be more universally applicable. Modern feminism, at least in my experience, is much more gender critical. The type of feminists on social media today (or at least all of the ones I have ever seen) are vocal about the fact that abuse can be leveraged against men or women.
@Ult_R4nger 94 Outdated feminist theory. Obviously the feminist movement has not been flawless throughout its existence. Some early suffragettes were pretty racist and for a long time mainstream feminism neglected the plight of LGBT women and women of color. The point I was making is that the feminist movement has changed and the "men's rights movements" is pretty much completely reactionary and it's existence demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of what people mean when they talk about oppression.
@Ult_R4nger 94 The White Feather Campaign? From the 1940's? These are all really dated examples. I personally, in seven years of engaging with feminism, have never heard a feminist make the case that male victims of abuse aren't valid or shouldn't be treated with same level of respect afforded to female victims. The whole point of discussions about toxic masculinity is to address the societal roles that paint men as solely being the perpetrators (among other things obviously). I feel like MRAs are just intentionally refusing to engage with feminism in any meaningful way or even understand it. Also I think it's sort of absurd that you that you think the basis of the male gaze theory is women's 'insecurity' and not the very real psychological and societal repercussions of objectification, but that's besides the point.
Ult_R4nger 94 Ult_R4nger 94 I don’t think you understand what male gaze theory is at all and I don’t really want to waste my time explaining it to you. There are multiple studies on the damage objectification does to women. Also, women are not inherently drawn to things like aggression, stoicism, etc. A lot of modern male celebrities don’t display a single one of those traits, actually quite the opposite, and many women adore them so I’m not sure where this claim comes from. This idea that women actively wish to detract from “men’s rights” just confuses me. I don’t know of any prominent feminists that don’t believe men suffer as a result of patriarchy. The issues that MRAs talk about are the consequences of a system created by other men which prescribed men and women certain roles.
@Ult_R4nger 94 Okay honestly we must've just had very different experiences with women because half the stuff you mention is not something I have ever seen personally. Not all women want the same thing, not even a majority of women want the same thing. Also the talk I believe you're referring to was not just Farrel talking about suicide I'm pretty sure it was a general discussion on 'men's issues'. This isn't really a hill I'm willing to die on, but it's my understanding that people protested his presence there because they felt the men's rights movement is, at it's core, pretty misogynistic. Not entirely unfair when taking into account some of the ways some MRAs frame issues. Also feminists wanting men to acknowledge their privilege is not at all expecting men to perform some sort of gendered role. That is not a 'protector' thing feminists want men to understand where they're coming from and support gender equality. Also I don't think you get what I mean. These societal issues aren't wholly the fault of all men living today. The patriarchal structure of society was created by men because men have historically had a monopoly on power. Both men and women are capable of upholding the structures that oppress women and hurt men. My issue with MRAs is that the issues they talk about have nothing to do with men's oppression and everything to do with the patriarchal system I've talked about earlier backfiring and rather than try to maybe introduce more discussion about how the patriarchy hurts men into feminist circles they retreat into an odd circle jerk where men are somehow the disadvantaged group in society. I'm done talking to you.
might be over thinking it but i have to wonder how the environment effects these conversations. super uncomfortable chairs in some dudes garage with dark as fuck lighting most people would be on edge. this look less like a place to hold a debate or have a friendly chat and more like where i'd expect to wake up if i was kidnapped
Breasts do have a defined function of milk production. The breasts DID definitely form before the sexual attraction to them , as we see breasts swell among a lot of mammals whenever their bodies are preparing for nursing. It's not far from already being a sexual characteristic, so it really isn't your best example to use when discussing biological versus social evolutionary reasons for sexual dimorphism, as it most definitely does take factors from both the biological and social side.
@@onalos1271 First of all I'm very sure the stereotype existed long before gamergate, second of all there were female gamers in the gamergate movement that felt attacked as well and "threw a fit". Gamergate was a very complex event with multiple parties with very different views, the end winners were obviously yes the conservatives that used it as a proving ground for dividing people and bring them to conservative side via demonizing the left and trolls who had soo much fun pissing everyone off and causing chaos. I would say MRA and feminist divide occurred in the 1970's when Warren Farrell was excommunicated from feminism. I would say the problem is that feminism covers a wide range of different philosophies and so does MRA, some of them like tradcons on the MRA side and TERF on the feminist side are very loud and very obtuse and hold positions that are mutually exclusive, while more egalitarian people in between could in fact get along if not for the tribalism behind labels.
@@frbe0101 Feminism and Men's Rights are not compatible. Feminism is fighting for preferential treatment, and MRA's are fighting for rights. And the divide started way before Warren Farrell (as understand of males issues of today). If you get a chance, check these out. th-cam.com/video/M_Ed2BIOHbQ/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/VMkWdpFSXPA/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/PqEeCCuFFO8/w-d-xo.html
@@notsmine9191 they are compatible. Just dyaujf they're not is false. Feminism is about equality of the sexes. Cherry picking a bunch of man hating feminazi types doesn't make it any less true.
@@notsmine9191 Well that would depend on who you define as "feminism" and "MRA" a tradcon that advocate for women being forced into mothering roles in the home is not advocating for equal rights, and a feminist saying society needs to do something about her feeling unsafe because of her risk of murder is asking for preferential treatment (men run a higher risk of being murdered, a general fear of being murdered as a women is not statistically reality)
@@frbe0101 You know there is a difference between wanting what is desirable and works best for the majority of humans (not everyone need follow it tho) and forcing it into them are not the same right? Wanting a wife and family isn't bad. Its what humans have generally done throughout history, and is still desirable for most of us. Just because it doesn't work for everyone doesn't mean people can't still see it as what's best (if people want it). And as you say. Men are much more likely to be assaulted, killed, or commit suicide, and yet "women feel more unsafe". They are more safe them men are, and we Still need to keep doing more for them.... (this isn't me saying we can't work on anything, but i care about both men and women, and not solely working on women's issue while never caring about men's issues like feminism).
12:30 I like how she is explaining toxic masculinity where men aren't allowed to cry, and then *immediately* laughs as she explains that someone she rejected almost cried.
Being allowed to cry doesn't mean that you can cry at anything without it being considered weird. It would have looked equally silly if the genders were reversed
@@partlycurrent I don't think that is a psychology of it, one cries over rejection because one is not up to the standards of the person they love, now if they got angry instead that might be entitlement.
@@frbe0101 im not sure how literal the situation was explained, so I'd like to refrain from more speculation about psychology. Any entitlement is wrong. That goes both ways. Just because you're nice, doesn't mean you're entitled to a relationship
@@partlycurrent No one is entitled to love, yes I agree, other entitlements like say social security, universal healthcare, clean water and air, a right to not be murdered, etc, I am more prone to say are not wrong so much as necessary in order to have a prosperous civilization; but people don't need to be loved in order for civilization to prosper so I'm willing to not call that a right and leave it as a entitlement.
MRA: *lists issues of men* Feminists: my problems are worse than yours. MRA: We think these problems are to be adressed and we want to stand for it. Feminists: Were you raped? -gosh just help each other instead of trying to put your problems above the other's These guys besides the one with the accent weren't real MRA. The last one was kinda antifeminism which is also not the way. Just try and accept each side and try to solve and coexist...
Aceeton Maybe us women and the majority of men would consider Men Rights Activists movement legit if it was born from truly wanting to help men instead of actually being born to try and silence women because it makes them uncomfortable. No feminist in the video said her problems are worse than men or invalidated their feelings.
@@karlaruiz8685 It's always the same dumb take. We form countless organisations, political parties,and charities to address our issues, whilst having never protested any feminist event or lobbied against any feminist bill, yet it's always "you just hate women, you don't care about men". Doing this hundreds of times is gonna black pill me.
This issue with "Feminism" is that it is can force a bias in one direction. The name itself make it seem as if people are seeking only gains for woman or feminine aspects of the world. Meaning to raise woman up and put man down. This is best played out in how little support for masculine issues being talked about from Feminist. I think there needs to be a re-branding. Stop calling it Feminism and call it Humanism. This name better suit what the end goal is. The end goal is to make both men and woman equal. Not just to bring women's rights equal to men rights but to also bring men's rights to an equal level as women for rights in which women have more power. I would love to call myself a Feminist if I knew that Feminism supported and fought for men's rights just as much as they do women's rights.
Destiny when you talked about the wage gap you got it wrong. While some numbers like the 77 cents on per dollar figure is an aggregate number the real wage gap is controlled for and is more like 92-98 cents per dollar. You yourself has brought this up a number of times and I find it odd that you would make this error here.
that ceo's point could also be explained to the fact that growing up most ceo's are already in a wealthy position thus able to get more nutritious food as they grow up, (which is a big indicator of height) as in countries with better food supply tend to have taller populations
Since WW2 the nutritional intake in industrialized countries didn't vary enough to suggest that there is really a conection there. It's more about comparing countries, than sectors of one society
Guys might get worse outcomes in family court? 90% or more of cases give women primary custody. Destiny is usually pretty honest with the facts I hope this was just an argument from ignorance.
Pretty sure he said that in contrast to women being subjected to sexual violence more. He didn't deny the court bias, he just said that its a separate issue from what the woman was talking about.
@@JohnDoe-jq4re But something I was thinking about, can't MRAs say the same thing? "Wow you agree on the courts system against men, you're basically a men's rights activist now!" Which a response would likely be, that that implies they'd be subscribing to things they don't necessarily agree with. Maybe even if it was egalitarianism instead of feminism they'd still find things they don't like about it and it's posibble that older or current feminists become alienated
@@brandonden795 "WhY iS iT CaLlEd "FEM"InIsm??! Number one argument if you confront MRAs about feminism having issue with men's rights" That's not the even close to the first thing we care about. The very first thing we care about is boys and men's rights and all the issues they face. And then because this ideological movement is causing harm to men and boys by not caring about their problems, or actively fighting against men's rights. We take issue with feminism as well. Oh, and in case you didn't know, most of us are also WRA's (women's rights activist), which is not the same as the sexist movement of feminism.
All i hear from the feminists is what the men need to do to fix womens problems. I think it would be more productive if feminists would worry as much about their role in fixing their problems and men should try to do the same.
30:16 - Destiny's take is pretty accurate. I would wager, (I could be wrong) most people on Tinder are looking firstly for casual sexual encounters and secondly long term relationships. If true, there are studies on this. On Average men's standards for casual sexual interactions are lower than women's. In short term relationships, like casual sex, men generally just need their partner to be at a minimum physical attractiveness (this is somewhat lower for men than women). However, women have more requirements at a much higher standard for casual sexual encounters such as kindness, intelligence, and earning capacity. Reference: (Kenrick, Sadalla, Groth, & Trost, 1990) (Li & Kenrick, 2006) is another relevant study. Unfortunately these studies are not open access.
This take is a cop out. If you removed all the people looking for casual sex, the gap would still exist. Also Tinder does not provide much information to judge kindness, intelligence, and earning capacity.
@@didles123yeah women are such Hypocrites, because they talked about how they care about non-physical things like intellect or personality or interest but it's convenient how the guys that they do find the have intellect or personality or interests are also good looking
Maybe the same side who declares she doesn't need a man to protect her shouldn't also be the side declaring that her physical safety is in danger every time she considers her wardrobe.
I think the medical bias between men being more likely to be prescribed pain medication comes from the idea that because of masculinity a man won't admit he's in pain until he's REALLY in pain. There's stories of tough old farmers gashing their leg open and refusing to go to the hospital because work needs to get done and then they die. So the idea that men won't waste a doctors time over trivial matters likely comes down to that. I'm not saying it's correct or that all men are like that or that women will tend to waste a doctors time but that's seems to be where that bias could come from.
"If there's something that makes you emotional, there's nothing wrong with it, as long as your responses to it are fine." That's where the miscommunication is; he's conflating emotion with reaction and you're misunderstanding that. It's semantics. From his perspective, "being emotional" is an action rather than a feeling. When he thinks "emotional", he thinks crying, yelling, becoming violent, etcetera and those are actions. When you think "emotional", you think sad, angry, joyous, etcetera and those are feelings. What is constantly overlooked here is the whole "stop crying", "man/toughen up" thing is just an very poorly worded way to accomplish one of three things; cause someone to stop reacting to something in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable, which shouldn't require explanation as to why that's fucked up... ... cause someone to repress emotions/sensations due to the stigma of weakness/ineptitude tied to the lack of self-control associated with reactive outbursts, because men were often tasked with being the protector and the odds of being able to control a situation to prevent (further) harm are lower when you can't even control yourself (and the damage emotional repression causes to mental health wasn't properly addressed for so long that, obviously, fixing the damage that ideology has caused is taking a long time)... ... and lastly, cause someone to redirect their emotional reactions into something more productive (like dressing a fresh wound efficiently rather than just crying about it on the floor/ground, throwing a tantrum that more wastes time than resolves an issue, communicating more healthily with someone about something that upsets you rather than yelling at and/or abusing them verbally or otherwise), which promotes modifying your reaction to be more productive rather than repressing it. I don't believe the last option is wrong but I agree that the wording used to suggest it could certainly be better than "stop being a pussy" and the like. Better wording could be "I know you're in pain but let's focus that attention on fixing the problem instead so the pain goes away sooner or doesn't hurt so much". Of course, there's nothing to suggest you can't simultaneously cry and address the problem but, if crying is your conscious reaction to the problem rather than a subconscious reaction that can't healthily be redirected, then you could probably put that attention to work on something more productive.
Impostor Syndrome is a psychological disorder (which is involuntary) and a lot of people who suffer from it tend to be either hyper-competitive or eager to be validated/admired. It isn't always necessarily about "male fragility". I disagree that women aren't expected to contribute much in terms of strong personality. The "strong independent woman" has been the feminine version of the new "man card" for the last decade, at least, and it pertains specifically to having a strong personality on top of financial independence. Couple that with the "female empowerment" trope that encourages strong personality. The push for "strong female leads" in movies and television persists today, as we can see with reactions to Captain Marvel, Wonder woman, the latest in the Star Wars franchise (just to name a few of many more) from the female viewership. The idea that the vast majority of society expects women to just shut the fuck up, chill, and sit back is greatly removed from our current reality.
“If you’re 5’8 and you think height is the main thing holding you back, you probably have some other issues to think about.” Dude knit this into a fucking blanket. I’m a 5’9 and I have never cared if a dude is a little shorter than me. The only time it’s been an issue is when they are insecure in their height, and it’s only happened to me online. This shit just doesn’t matter in real life. I’m currently dating a guy who is 5’8 and am basically obsessed with him (in a nice, healthy way lol). Short kings rise up. Get off the computer and meet real people.
44:05 this bias against men is strong argument that supports feminists (because society think that women are generally weak and less capable of harm they unfairly get less sentence than men for same crime) vaush explained this beautifully when he reacted to the same video
So why is it OK to put people into groups by their sex and skin color and then say that group as a whole needs to do "better" when you even don't know the person you are talking to?
Men are assaulted and/or killed more then women all over the world by far. Women feel most threaten. And we still aren't doing enough to "protect women"..........
The problem with what Destiny said about boobs is that they're expensive to posture and they get in the way. The fact that they impose a cost strongly suggests they were sexually selected for.
Honestly the incel dude seems (to me at least) have a lot of confidence and charisma, if he were to just take care of himself more, work out, and dress better he could probably do fairly well with women
Wage gap exists truly to the fact of negotiation, men tend to be more competitive, therefore are more successful at negotiating their salary, or even hourly wage. It's possible that there is some discrimination there, but there is no proof of that. It pisses me off that no one looks at that when discussing that topic. When it comes to toxic masculinity, it's when you loose rage over a small thing, having too much arrogance that it starts eating you up inside. Now fathers repress their emotion to to be on high alert, or to stay strong and rational...the question is that toxic?
I hate when feminists say toxic masculinity is bad they say you should be able to show your emotions but then don't go into the the real issues like how if a man is abused by their wife they just laugh like wtf dont be offended for us on non issues and go silent on the real issues
Haywire5714 I think its less landing than men actively throwing themselves at them. Look at any ig model for examples. If they took a moment they’d realize this is a bs system men have built over the course of human history.
Haywire5714 you might be surprised at the sheer number of girls and women who would say “guys land into girls laps” is not their experience lol. I get that there’s some truth to your point, js be careful not to assume the grass is always greener
@@Haywire5714 Guys willingly choose to land on the lap of women (even when a lot of them don't want that_ therefore woman should do the same even if they don't want to?
Throughout this Destiny talks about how feminism needs a rebranding and to do away with the blaming "patriarchy" and "toxic masculinity" so then the MRAs wouldn't feel so attacked and they'd actually agree on a lot of things... The problem with this is Destiny doesn't understand the different branches of feminism... These are known as radical feminists and to be a radical feminist is to blame a societies' patriarchy for gender inequality... The problem is not (necessarily) how they present feminism to be, the problem is that they are basically the toxic branch of feminism (along with Marxist feminists who blame gender inequality on wealth inequality)... What Destiny really wants is both/either of liberal feminists and/or difference feminists (there are many other branches of feminism as well, but I use this typology since it's a lot simpler than delving into like a dozen different types like empirical feminism and such) Honestly, if these feminists heard Destiny say that, they'd probably be insulted and tell him stuff like he doesn't understand it and isn't qualified to talk about it because of his privilege from being a cis white male... That's how MOST radical feminists (the particularly dumb ones) tend to argue with a lot of people so that they don't have to consider the actual arguments being made because it's much easier for them to gatekeep the conversation... What Destiny really ought to do is discuss feminism with Christina Hoff Sommers, a liberal feminist (or as she puts it personally, an 'equity' feminist) so that radical feminists aren't getting so much representation online... I had a political science course I took which discussed these branches of feminism and ever since I've just seen radical feminists everywhere online and people hating on feminism despite having the positions of a liberal or difference feminist and it bothers me any time feminism is being discussed... SO MANY PEOPLE AGREE ON SO MANY THINGS!!! The problems are just from radical and marxist feminists as well as people who are just legitimately sexist (or perhaps some people who are super religious/traditionalist and want a return to ye olde days...) But the average person who isn't those things will be in agreement... The people who are (or hold the positions of) the liberal feminists, difference feminists or the non-radical, non-traditionalist MRAs... In summary, I agree with Destiny that if these feminists and MRAs just became liberal feminists or difference feminists then everyone would mostly agree and probably get more done for the sake of gender equality... But also, these radical feminists would absolutely not do that because they don't JUST spout 'patriarchy', patriarchy is the enemy of their ideology that they need to fight to bring gender equality and so they will not stop blaming patriarchy... Even when things seem fairly equal between the genders they will just make up new things to blame on the 'patriarchy' to keep the feeling that they are oppressed victims going... Heck, I feel like some radical feminists would say that a man on death row who is more likely to be executed is still more privileged than a woman who is less likely to be executed...
Just to add, the lack of contact and attention has been noticed in human babies too. The studies were done by observing babies in orphanages, overall it was noticed that babies even though they were properly taken care of physically, like food, cleanliness etc. would die in large numbers, and the difference between orphanages with a lot of deaths and the ones where most babies thrived was how much time the care takers spent just in contact with the babies, holding them, talking to them etc. I honestly forgot the name of the scientists that did the research it was done i think after ww2. Lack of contact in early life is also seen as a risk factor in developing autism spectrum disorders. Its a big part of why the behaviorist "baby box" was a failure. We are social creatures we need contact with other living beings to thrive.
Honest question about the boobs thingy at 7:40 I mean he's always gonna be right about that their MIGHT be some other explenation other than evolutionary pressure, we can't really ever know for sure. This goes for everything, so i feel like it's kind of a dumb thing to say. I mean if the biologists or whatever scientests feel confident enough to say 'we believe there was selection involved in boobs', isn't that just it? What he's saying is always true and completely unfalsifiable
"I'm a traditionalist man" - Dresses like a child in a Walmart
That guy... Yikes
It's awkward because you can't really address where he's coming from without acknowledging the existence of this entire nuts internet platform. and then you get caught up talking about it.
Washes fortnightly
Tradition is all about fashion.
@@didles123 I wouldn't go that far but it's pretty important
Destiny “watches and provides Commentary” to this debate
This is kind of a pivot but didn't he make a bunch of descriptive claims and no normative ones? He kept saying, this is how it happens but never gave his opinion on whether it was right or wrong. That is ironic because it is exactly what he criticizes Jordan Peterson on.
@@hejalll Exactly lmaooo 🤦🏾♂️.
They should have had a Woman who was MRA and a Man who was a feminist participate, because it feels like a men vs women thing.
That's the point. They want to make it seem as divided as possible while giving the most milquetoast Both Sides end-point as possible to fish in the maximum audience with their nets. They have no interest in figuring out the truth in the given scenario, or even in helping people come to true conclusions.
It is a men vs women thing rofl. Female MRAs are tokenistic af lol
@@1997lordofdoom Female MRAs exist just like male feminists exist
I agree with the man feminist but there are virtually no women MRAs because MRAs are almost all dudes who think the movement being called feminism means that the people in it hate men
@@pennyw2226 Have you hung around in an online mra space or gone to an mra convention to arrive at this belief? There are actually tons of women in the movement. Also do you really believe that's why mra's hate feminists?
i didnt like how they framed this as a men vs women thing
Same. There a lot of male feminists they could have got on.
I saw it as a humans vs derrick thing.
Tom H I heard that the guy who they call an MRA is actually not an MRA. But I might have to look into this background
Hard to find women in men's rights movements. Feminism is better carried out by women.
Plus on a topic like that it can't hurt to have equal number of men and women.
@@syriph2527 Male feminists...dude...worst kind of people.
I think it's extremely difficult for (many) men to understand how unpleasant unwanted attention can be when they can go their entire lives without getting any type of attention from the opposite sex. Men and women definitely face unique social issues when it comes to dating, and you do have to actively make an effort to empathize with the opposite gender in these situations, and I can see why to a lot of men, when they realize the thing they want the most (attention, affection), can actually be an absolute nightmare to some women, have a difficult time finding that level of empathy and understanding. Like if you're dying of thirst in a desert, then you might give anything to be the person drowning in a lake.
The opposite is also true, though. I think a lot of women, especially those that get a lot of attention for their looks, don't know how tough it can be to face rejection. I've seen a few anecdotes from bi women and the like on how hard it can be, as well.
In the end, we should all strive to have empathy for one another.
atariDC_ you need your own youtube show my friend bravo
@@onalos1271 Yeah, I feel that way of not feeling the connection between guys. I am so far down the road of realizing how stupid it is to avoid personal problems and issues, as well as whole this "Patriarchy" (I honestly feel disturbed still by feminists calling it that way, implying it should be good for me since I am the "right" gender for it, but I hate most of the aspects of this system and got hurt a lot by it) but still feel that if I would be so close to someone it would be "gayish" (not like I am afraid to be gay, but I feel like this type of connection would be trying to establish relationship) like it's something in my subconscious.
@@onalos1271 You're right that men need their own spaces and they used to have those. It's just that women have invaded most of them by now. Latest example that comes to mind are the "boy" scouts. The thing is that men's behavior changes as soon as you introduce a woman to a group. Men need some time away from women so they can talk honestly with other men. There are just things men won't say when women are around out of fear of appearing weak. And this fear is legitimate. Women will totally judge a man who comes across as weak or vulnerable. In fact it turns them off. You may say otherwise but many men have come to learn that what women say they want and what they actually want are often two different things. Some of these women might even believe themselves that they want their man to be more emotional/vulnerable/etc with them. But then they lose respect for him the moment he shows them his emotional side. Maybe some women really do like their man to be emotional/vulnerable/etc with them but that has to be the exception. It seems like these women want their man to also be their girlfriend.
Regarding "game" I agree that it's not a positive development. But have you thought about why it even is a phenomenon nowadays when it didn't used to be? 60 years ago the majority of women used to be dependent on their husband financially. That was often a big incentive to keep the marriage going (also no-fault divorce wasn't a thing back then). Queue the sexual revolution and as it becomes more accepted people are having more and more sex outside of marriage. Add some more feminism into the mix and now most women work and earn their own money. So women are no longer dependent on a man and no longer need to marry early in life. All that lead to more promiscuity. Women are now giving away their pussy more readily. (In fact my own grandpa told me that perhaps he wouldn't have married my grandma had people been as promiscuous back then as they are today.) And since women earn their own money now they have more or a choice in who they have sex with. They no longer have to go for men who are good providers and instead often choose to go for men who are good lovers. So men adapted and figured out how to make women believe they are good lovers and lots of women fall for them. That's how we got to where we are today. Men haven't changed that much. It's mostly women that changed. And you can blame feminism. I hope it was worth it.
@@onalos1271 I agree with you for the most part, but I wanna react to one thing: "but men seem to often "game" women, like prey they are trying to conquer instead of having a genuine connection"
Thats because men are inredibly horny. As a man, part of me would like to fuck every single attractive girl that I come across. Every single one. Sure, women has sexuality too, but its quite a bit different and it comes from our biological programming. The other guy was actually right about how men start to act differently as soon as a girl is introduced to a group, and sure that kinda sucks, but its really really hard not to change the way you act when you are around women as a heterosexual man. I personally can barely talk around women lol.
Men's physical attraction to women is simply incredibly strong, and Im not necessarily saying this as an excuse, its just something to keep in mind. Its kinda fucked up, but the frustration that comes purely from this physical tension itself is quite a bit to handle, I honestly think that thats the root to all these problems, it is that simple. Generally speaking if you desire something so badly, just in a physical level, you just take it. Like, if you are thirsty, get some water. You see a nice cake you wanna taste, buy it. But its a bit different when what you desire is another human being. In the animal world "sex" and "rape" is FAR less distinguished if you think about it. But humans are a weird ass phenomenon, we are self consious and intelligent. Imo figuring out how to "properly" handle sexuality, bringing this mess up to the level of intellectuality is one of the greatest challanges of our species, because as easy as it sounds, its actually not that easy. Either way, sorry about all the bullshit, we dont mean it.
Destiny was not reacting in this debate
I think he talked more about the game he was playing than the video.
@@jeffc5974 bruh he said a total of like 2 things in relation to stardew valley lol
Destiny got jealous that he didn't get invited to Julibee in this debate.
Next Jubilee video should have Steven and be "Steven vs. The World in every topic"
Manny EHC oh yeah yeah
But we may be a little biased
Destiny doesnt have any debate and gets jealous in this debate
LUIOFFICIAL AUDIO Make a destiny style beat
The Plains Jam th-cam.com/channels/JdBEWPms5hML2x-LzzeOJA.html please watch my new political channel
I'm not sure what the solution should be to the increase of people being lonely these days, but I think I can pretty confidently say that regressing back to cultural norms from 70 years ago is not it.
M3phistos Cafe Ive seen a lot of my friends, especially men, gravitate towards fascist and anti-feminist influencers and communities because they feel a longing for the tribalism that comes with those older cultural norms you’re speaking of. I feel for them. The longing clearly comes from a place of loneliness.
@@kevinboyle109 Yeah, far right groups are taking full advantage of this, and are tricking men into thinking that if they support their fascist ideas it will get them laid by hot tradcon white women.
Stacey Solano that is true, but to old3nglish’s point, they will find a sense of belonging in the right. I don’t know how to break the spiral. The center-left offers nothing for my friends. My brother feels hated in his own culture, even though most people would consider him the dominant social group.
Stacey Solano eh look at what just happened in the UK. This far right resurgence hasn’t pumped the breaks.
I think the point for a lot of the far right incel/MR types the ultimate point is women won’t have a choice to reject them. They won’t admit that, but it’s the goal either through cultural conditioning or violence.
@@onalos1271 Very true. I am a woman who has emphathy for those antifeminists too, but mine is similar limited. The whole movement seems to be based on a feeling of entitlement to have a girlfriend. They even complain about women being more attracted to good looking men, as if men were only attacted to our inner beauty. I was an ugly looking teenager, became a lot better looking later (I kind of grew into my natually red hair) and now everywhere I go men open doors for me.
I love how the people who complain about mens outcomes in family court are the same people who say that women are naturally better care givers to children....
Almost like there lieing about caring about it ...
Damn, I never thought about that.
@Anarcho Frills Source?
@@onalos1271 wow. U must have lived through some traumatic experiences
They don't necessarily contradict each other.
You could admit that women tend to be care/nurture better, and still be against how much the court takes away from the father in most cases, it could be specifically they have a bit TOO little custody time with the child.
Do you think there's a minimum amount of custody hours per week that a father should have (this varies of course but it's honestly besides the point)? If so, there is an environment for that wish to be violated.
This Derick guy is just one rejection away from going on a killing spree bro..
Hahaahahaha it's so true
@UltArcRanger Poor woman i guess (I'm not guessing he got married with a man haha, guys like this are so painfully heterosexual, it hurts)
@zyklon b Right wing extremism is literally responsible for over 50% of all domestic terrorism but go off I guess.
@Andrew Stevenson how do you know he's a trump supporter, yes hes crazy to say the least, but how do you know his political views
Don't assume someone's policital views just because they disagree with you on something or oppose you on something
For all you know he could be a Bernie supporter
He should channel his "killing spree" tendencies in League if Legends
"We're in a fallen state!"
UH-MAZING.
Well we live in an anarchy tyranny . The government is all powerful bit only selectively enforces laws. Guns are banned for felons but all gang members still gave guns. Our politicans are corrupt and police get away with murder.
@@zm1786 Sounds like the mafia is running the joint.
@@browsertab indeed . I recently heard about. A swat officer and his teacher wife were busted for making child porn with his students. The worst part is his ex wife caught him in the act with a 13 year old girl and local police buried it for years. It goes high up . They want to take our guns because guns are the only way to rid ourselves of these parasites.
Poo
UH-MAYZ'N
Everytime I've seriously considered suicide, i was completely alone everyday for months prior. Everytime ive reached peek happy, i had friends around everyday.
Im a night logger 12h per night for 7 months straight every year. Before this career i took for granted my friends, i had no idea how important they were.
Editing: I think I wrote this before seeing your message.
@@sillyfoxer9927 How are you doing?
Also, being strong vs emotional..
If you have no emotions, you cannot be (emotionally) strong. You are strong if you learn to control and work with those.
Similiarly, you are not strong if you have no weights to lift to begin with.
"I've studied evolutionary biology" is code for "I watch a lot of Stefan Molyneux"
"I've studied evolutionary biology" is code for "I've studied evolutionary biology"
Sure thing John Smith.
@@gamesetcrash5312 just watched your channel. Cheers for the cringe fest.
@@johnsmith7465 lol. Thanks John Smith. Anytime.
Wait, Destiny is 5'8"? What's with all the short jokes? US average is only 5'9". Dunno worldwide average, but I'm guessing 5'8" is above it.
Because a lot of people get triggered by destiny and want to go apeshit at him through whatever avenue they can, regardless of how legitimate. Same thing with all the "destiny is a pedophile" jokes.
It's b/c he's below 6ft.
Below 6.1 is already manlet tier
Plus his relatively thin frame doesn't help
Because 5'8 is considered short in most western countries.
Tim Maes what that’s insane. i’m like 5’2.5 and looking at 5’8 guys make me feel so small in comparison
"don't call it reacting" video is titled Destiny reacts. nice
(that's the meme you dip)
My pee pee
r/whoosh
MiniBirthMyChildren ok boomer hahahahahahahahaha 🤣 🤣 hahah day era eke faves East
@@CODELIRIOUS-sy8xz Is the ok boomer still a thing for anyone other than boomers, also your english broke 2nd part of your comment
The "men die significantly younger" (by like 7 years) "because of their own suppression of emotions" triggers the fk out of me coming from feminists. When your whole ideology centers around you finally speaking for yourself, and believing lived experiences, and having your own voice, you can't turn around and speak for the other side. The evidence for such a claim would have to be astronomical, to even suggest the suppression of men's emotions, as a group, noticeably lower's their expected age.
Evidence supporting contrary causes is insurmountable: Men (especially in previous generations, but even today) are almost always the ones sent to war, for example. PTSD from seeing your friend die on the battlefield, or seeing a child bomber, ect. ect. so greatly outweighs the foundless claim that 1. Men suppress their emotions meaningfully more than women (unfounded claim #1) 2. that the suppression of emotions like sadness will decrease your lifespan, on average, by years, and should be the primary focus in relation to men's lifespan's being shorter (unfounded #2) and that 3. It just so happens that women need to speak up FOR ThE BENIFIT OF MEN about their OWN toxic masculinity. That last part really rubs me the wrong way: if women complained about men being toxic towards women, that would be different, but they attack "masculinity" under that guise of wanting to help men truly expression their suppressed emotions which they assume all men have and feel they can't express-- It reminds me of a relationship fight, where the woman is complaining about how the man's not intimate enough to her, and must be suppressed, or thinking about someone else, but in reality he's thinking about the price of bitcoin or what he wants to eat.
Another thing that undoubtedly TOWERS over "the supression of emotions" in relation to men's lifespans' is the fact that men basically do all the dangerous outside work. How many times have you seen someone filling concrete or repairing a road right next to traffic, or seen someone outside in construction garb doing risky physical labor? Probably on numerous occasions. Now how often were they men? Almost always, especially working on roads right next to traffic. **Things like dangerous construction work, going into the military, and literal male on male violence UNQUESTIONABLY outweigh "the suppression of emotions" in relation to men's lower expected lifespan.** To suggest you must read men's minds, and divine their emotional suppression in order to explain their shorter lifespans is infantilizing (ironically so, as that's the very thing they complain about men doing) and disrespectful to those who have risked their lives for the benefit of the rest of us.
I don't understand your claim about PTSD (genuinely trying to understand, not attack you). We have evidence that speaking about a traumatic event can help prevent PTSD rates, wouldn't you say that men having PTSD does speak to emotion suppression or not speaking about emotions? How would you interpret women having higher rates of PTSD (about 50% from what I've seen compared to 40% in Vietnam veterans) from sexual assault? I agree that it's a leap of logic to assume the suppression of emotions is behind lifespan claims. I think they meant suicide rates though. Which still would be inaccurate, given that women attempt suicide at the same rates. I disagree, just like you, with the claim women need to speak for the benefit of men. But in fact I've seen many contrary claims from feminists, for example that masculinity is their own problem to solve for themselves and not feminists' job to do. I know this is a comment from a year ago, sorry. I'm speaking as a woman from a country where military service is mandatory for women, by the way. And in my country, men try to limit women who want to join fighter ranks. So it seems a bit disingenuous for men to claim they do all dangerous work and women have it easy (specifically about military service) while also speaking out against women who want to do dangerous service.
@@yaeli_i_guess I actually like being brought back to old comments like this that I had forgotten about, so no need to apologize. You're right that the PTSD claim doesn't make much sense. This is largely because rates of PTSD are both inconsistent and unreliable. There are different degrees and types of trauma that can lead to PTSD, and I'd confidently claim that women are more likely to see a therapist and get diagnosed for such things. I was specifically talking about, if you reread the original comment, members of active duty on battlefields that have extreme PTSD from warfare (these are far more likely to be men). I am sure the issue is somewhat different in your country--but may still be the same in some ways--but in America at least, men represent a large majority of members of the military, and an even more extreme majority of members of active service. But that was just one example of the many GREATLY more significant contributors of men's lower lifespan--there are many more important and admirable reasons that men live shorter than women (some of them are not so admirable). But the point was that it's an unfounded, ridiculous, and disrespectful claim that the major reason for men's lower lifespan AND higher suicide rates is because they don't talk about their feelings.
Men succeed in committing suicide far more than women. Women attempt suicide far more than men. Of course these are both bad, but objectively, committing suicide is worse and more serious than attempting it. They are both terrible, and attempts warrant psychological help, but because women tend to use non-violent means (like taking pills), they're less likely to die from it. My instinct is that many women who attempt it use it as an attention thing, or a immature cry for help, but that's just an assumption of mine.
I'm sorry to hear that men try to limit women who want to join fighter ranks in your country. Is this "limiting" a suggestion with good intentions, or is it a policy that disallows women for certain roles simply because they are women? And also, even if this limiting wasn't taking place (like in America, where women are allowed to join any role they choose), I'd bet money there'd still be more men who went into those fighter roles. And having somewhat of a barrier to being in active combat seems like a fairly small issue, all things considered-- active combat is very undesirable to almost all people. In America, women are far less likely to join the military, and far less likely to be in fighting roles, despite being fully able to.
These middle ground videos are not useful IMO. It's just people with problematic opinions put in a room for conflict. Orchestrated clickbait. They don't harbor any decent conversation.
I think it helps to put people with ridiculous opinions in the daylight, but they could be more careful about making sure that both sides have some kind of source material and legitimate background to speak of.
Random youtuber incel guy has nothing valuable to add to this discussion, but it's great to have him there because that would allow someone who knows and understands feminism can unpack his 'feels' arguments and show where they are flawed.
It's disappointing that the supposedly educated feminists in this conversation can only speak out of personal experience rather than use the plethora of sociological evidence to argue their claims (e.g. that feminist organizations do a lot of good for men, or that women are still being disenfranchised and threatened in many aspects of their lives).
@@Zabuzakashi The issue with evidence and full on arguments is that they usually take time to prepare and an explicit skillset to express. Being an expert Ph.D with 30 years in a field doesn't make you a good debater in the same way that it doesn't necessarily make you a good teacher.
@@rocketrelm1125 Definitely, I'm not claiming that someone with a PhD is always the best person to make an argument.
But, any researcher worth their salt should at least be quite up-to-date with the scientific evidence, or the major frameworks that are present in their discipline. These facts won't sway an ideologically convinced audience, but it's much better than just saying 'I didn't bring a list.'
@@Zabuzakashi His specific question was about specific advocacy groups and a list of their meaningful accomplishments. That's not something you can explain via the scientific evidence. The counselor would know to correctly, on the spot, say "I don't have that on hand, but I can look up the data and give you a list afterwards with some notice", but again that's not the field of scientific research. Applied and Theoretical sciences are very separated.
Edit: There's honestly a nonzero percent chance she *did* say that, but they just cut it out because they need to Both Sides this argument and time constraints are a perfect excuse to use the one opportunity the mras have to look good to implement said Siding on the Both.
@@Zabuzakashi Feminist organizations doing something is not an argument for feminism, just as christian charity isn't an argument for christianity. These people aren't opposing that kind of rare feminism anyhow, but the pervasive, pop-culture kind that accomplishes nothing for anybody.
I feel like the problem is your average feminist doesn’t spend hours every day watching MRA destroyed videos. But for almost all MRAs it is a major part of their lives.
Which leads to the core reason for the divide. Misogynists use these young disgruntled men as a recruiting pool for their negative ends, and masquerade it around as 'men's rights'. Men have actual problems that need to be dealt with, but the people that would advocate for them are being picked out and lead down a hateful path instead of a good one, scared away from mra rights by the reputation those bad faith actors have, or just join links with actual feminist groups.
Stacey Solano sadly women in combat roles probably will not last, I worked in a G1 for the 1st infantry division in the army until about a month ago when I hit my ETS, and the latest reports we had from the new female combat integration trial units were significantly reduced combat efficiency in drills and almost triple the number of files of SHARP complaints with a less then a 2% arrest rate
I wouldn’t be surprised if the army quietly gets rid of the program and phases women back out of combat MOS’s
You're right but I don't know if the problem lies in what videos these people watch. I feel like both can be very vitriolic and toxic and acting in a reactionary way towards the opposition. It's two sides of the same coin.
@@arkcantoscreampsnpc7274 Not to mention women aren't expected to fight, and because of affirmative action garbage they still get paid just as much for far less work.
1997lordofdoom that’s why they’re always talking about triggering the left and making the left upset. It’s some weird type of deflection. Like they feel stupid so they take so much pleasure in watching a video in which someone they disagree with looks stupid themselves. I feel like there was a better way to word that but my brain is toast from work lol
"Toxic masculinity isn't real."
*1 minute later*
"What does toxic masculinity mean"
It isn't real. You can still ask the other person what they think is toxic. If they answer "men don't cry", then you know you won.
@@mr.thongsong8473 it is real. As a weaker guy, I was always told I'm girlish for not being agressive, I was abused when I showed feelings because others thought I was weak and so I wouldN#t retaliate. If there wasn't a toxic part to masculinity, then my bullies would have had noneed to prove theirmanliness by being an agressive assholes.
I don't believe my masculinity today is toxic, I actually don't care about what makes me masculin. My gender really doesn't play a role in the construction of my identity. Does yours really? Do you think about being a man all the time?
@@partlycurrent No it isn't. The fact that you use bullying as evidence, in order to sway me or the people reading, shows that you do understand how unpopular it is to bully and that it doesn't advance you socially. If beating up someone weaker than you proves you're a man, everyone would do it, including you. Instead we see them as aggressive assholes, as you pointed out.
Mine does and I think about it. Not all the time but especially when people attack me for being a man. Toxic masculinity is just a way for weak people to attack men.
It's the new pivot for feminists after patriarchy, rape coulture and man spreading was laughed out of the room.
@@mr.thongsong8473 actually no. Its is real. And everything you said is moronic.... Just because you're the garbage person who wants to get away with bullying. Doesnt mean everyone does. Youre either completely inept. Or just a complete piece of garbage human being.
@@DeceptiveSoul I think you are misunderstanding how a term is used.
Toxic masculinity refers to behavoirs associated with masculinity that are harmful (toxic).
Toxic masculinity DOES NOT mean that men or masculinity is inherently toxic.
In fact, the qualifier toxic implies that there are non-toxic forms of masculinity. Let me give you an example:
"Men shouldn't take no for an answer" and "Men shouldn't acknowledge their feelings" are pretty harmful ideas and would probably be considered toxic.
"Men should be assertive about what they want" and "men should stand up against injustice" are much less harmful and probably wouldn't be considered toxic.
I love watching Destiny's videos because he's typically less concerned with "winning" in a debate or conversation than he is in getting to the truth of a thing. There are so few people that are willing to drop their cherished intuitions.
However, whenever a social issue comes up Destiny starts White Knighting hard. That's not to say that he's necessarily wrong all of the time but he seems to think less in terms of cold objective logic in favor of coming to the"underdog's" rescue.
On a side note: the men's rights movement and the feminist movement should, in my opinion, never be represented as opposing viewpoints. It makes no sense to compare the plight of the two genders. It p bothers me when an MRA sweets says, "Men have higher death rates due to suicide and workplace accidents" and it's met with, "Well women can't safely walk to they're cars at night". Likewise I hate it when a feminist says, "We're at higher risk of being under diagnosed" and some guy is like, "But family court..."
Both genders have problems. It's should not be reduced to a zero-sum game. We, as a society, can address society's problems without the binary categorization.
I cannot agree more, but when it comes to conversations like this, the entire purpose is to present and talk about our struggles with each other. I don't think there's anything wrong with each side bringing up their own issues, so as long as they go, "I absolutely agree with your concerns and your issues. That is something we should all work towards addressing and solving. Moving onto the next issue, I think I'm discriminated against in family court and that needs to be addressed as well." The entire point of this is to talk about our issues in a way that doesn't compare them to minimize them. I think our issues should be brought up in a way that doesn't take away from each other's issues as the conversation naturally flows to another topic.
But one thing that stood out to me the most about your comment is the fact that plight, or suffering, of both genders shouldn't be pitted against the other in some manner of "My suffering is greater, therefore I'm superior to you," it should be more like, "I agree that both sides have their own issues and we need to come together and indiscriminately address them all.
I do think feminism needs to be rebranded though, I feel like that name has been tarnished in a way.
@@AlaReDuS I think anti-patriarchy is a better name, feminism has gained this pretty extreme rich-liberal women cult where they think that girlbossing is the end goal of feminism. This also ends up in anti-SJW compilations which further makes more MRAs thus making the world a worse place overall.
@@mdh_masalewale8681 I personally think "egalitarianism" would work best. "Anti-patriarchy" doesn't have the same ring to it but it also works. Point is, like you said, we need to move away from the name to a different one. Otherwise we're just creating
bad places online, like you said.
Destiny became an incel in this debate
I think it would be easier for Richard Spencer to become an Antifa soldier.
One must become his enemy to defeat it
Destiny is definitely an incel. The fact he bangs heaps of people is irrelevant to the point.
This Derrick guy, gives me the urge to vomit. The other 2 guys are reasonable, have good points, so do the women, besides the "I didnt bring a list... My dude" (which would be viewed as very hostile if one of the guys ended a sentence with "my girl" btw)
True
"my dude" is a common term, its even said to women.
Destiny keep it up man. Your my favorite reaction channel.
Destiny: Please don't call it reacting, im just watching and talking about it."
Title: "Destiny reacts to "Mean's Rights vs Feminism""
-I don't need your [men's] help.
Few minutes later "Do women and men need to be allies"
>sits down
It is literally a contradiction
Destiny: "Don't call it reacting, it triggers me!"
Editor: "Destiny reacts..."
You do know that Destiny names love these videos to bring in people right
i loved how the girl said "5'8 is tall" with shyness
I have a friend who's 5ft 2. He had incredibly beautiful girlfriends, never had any problem dating. And also he was still like 110lbs at 35 yo. He's an inspiration for me on having confidence. I'm 5ft5, when I tend to self-deprecate about that, I think about him.
Steve Bergeron anecdote. Useless example. Statistics show that women are happier and prefer taller men. The shorter a man is, the less likely he is to get a date or a relationship
@@lucianraphael9527 No kidding. An anecdote, you bet it is. Its my friend! :D You missed the point.The worst thing is not one's height, but the lack of confidence caused by it. Its exactly the same as Incel distorted view of reality. And I'm sure they can find a lot of stats to prove their point, too.
Steve Bergeron it’s hard to be confident when you’re very short and have been made fun of your whole life from it. It’s hard to be confident when you’re short when women are statistically less happier if they date you. Asking a short person to “just be confident” is like asking someone with a speech impediment to “just be confident”. It’s easier said than done.
Not to mention, shorter men are commonly seen as overcompensating when they are confident.
@@lucianraphael9527 You are really missing my points man. I'm sorry you feel that way. The thing is, I understand you pretty well, being short myself, having been made fun of, and having had a lot of anxiety with that. What I'm saying is: there was that guy, he was shorter than me, not particularly handsome or smart, and he DOESN'T SEEMS TO GIVE A SHIT. He simply lived his life. OF COURSE being taller he could had better outcomes overall... Or not. We'll never know. We could also been born 6ft3, blind, in a remote village of Siberia, 3 hundred years ago, you know? It could be worst. So is there something we, short people, can learn from that friend I have? I think we should! Go live your life man.
Steve Bergeron I’m not short, I’m just over 6’4. I’m saying stuff that shorter people have been saying happens in their lives.
I’m not missing your point. What you’re saying is just be confident and move on with your life, it could be worse. Which isn’t much of a cheer up to short men who get less respect from society, have unhappier relationships and even get PAID less (there’s studies on this aswell). Short men have gotten the raw end of the deal in society, them being mad about that is completely justifiable.
The moment i finished this jubilee video, it immediately came to my mind how much I wanted Destiny to react to this.. I'm so mindblown rn 🤯
Weak
@@honest_bishop5905 ur mom's weak
@@ezaf5989 thanks, random stranger on the internet 😂
Reddit moment
To bad he didn't react to it tho :(
11:44 Does anyone have a link to destiny reacting to the incels thread about owning destiny?
Pls reply to me if this i found, i wanna see too
I want this
I want this
I NEED this
Here's a fun game: guess which of the MRA dudes is a Fuentes fan
HMMMMM WHO COULD IT BE
I came from Vaush's video too
@@brandonden795 love Vaush
That guy "women should be midwifes"
Aslo that guy "InEqUaLiTy iN tHe fAmiLy Court"
@TheProphetMuhammad lmao I'm not talking about any of these, I'm talking about the guy on the right, with the blue shirt.
@@ksilva2848 Most women would prefer having a female midwife when giving birth. I dont think he meant women should exclusively be midwifes, he was saying men shouldnt be midwifes. The midwife is there to comfort and tend to the mother and the child during and after birth, most women prefer another women to be the one doing this. Im not here to make the "women are more caring" argument, but all the guy was saying is he understands why some fields may be skewed in one gender. How does that relate to child custody cases?
*MRA sees wage gap*
"It's because of biology"
*MRA sees family courts*
"This is oppression!"
Yeah, this is the problem with most MRAs, they complain about inequality for men, they pretend to care about these issues, but then their solution is to suport the gender roles that created that inequality in the first place.
If that one guy was so concerned about women getting less years for the same crimes, for example, then why didn't he say anything when that other guy implied that women are not as capable of making decisions as men?
At the end of the day, MRAs solution to seeing male inequality is not to try to fight it so we can all be equal, it is to re-stablish inequality for women to balance things out.
Women as a group should be midwives because of reason x.
Any courts using reason x on individual cases is doing something wrong, clearly.
How is this so hard.
"I think a lot of times, when a movement is created, the other side thinks that they're being attacked, or think that's it's, some like, attempt at a ratio, that's not what feminism is about at all. What do you need a whole Mens Rights Activism Movement for? I'm sincerely confused."
..Wow, that was actually in the final edit... not even the editors of this show are able to put this together in a way that doesn't make the feminists contradict themselves in less than 10 seconds.
Ayyy its ma boy Derrick "The Incel".
@@ezaf5989 I have actually seen weeb couples, they breed, gross.
@@frbe0101 WEEBS RISE UP AYAYA Clap
@@MrCman321 He ain't wrong.
@@frbe0101 Change the word "weeb" with black or interracial, and you have a post straight outta /pol/
@@roboactive Are weebs a race?
There was another study (I could be mid-siting it but this was my understanding) in which they took two chimps, same diet same environment set up and everything.
Only difference was one chimp was exposed to contact and love from its mother, while the other was not.
Long story short the one with no contact whatsoever ended up dying because it stopped eating.
Destiny is literally a reaction content creator who happens to play games.
Xqc is completely wrong about the "name one" question. The feminists are literally talking about the causes of men's oppression and PhD Andy comes in claiming the feminist movement is really a Boogeyman that doesn't care about men. The feminists had pretty good answers overall and definitely had the most concrete message. I think the reason these mras had such different ideals is because the movement lacks foundation. If you deny gender role expectations as a cause of someones oppression, you are not gonna get far advocating for men or women. Mras I interact with typically spend more time complaining about not being listened to then bringing up any actual solutions. Let them speak long enough and the "just let men be men" shit usually comes out. Well the male judge believes the male criminal should tough it out serving a longer sentence.
Solutions? How about passing the ERA? Ending or equalizing the draft, making circumcision illegal, allowing men reproductive rights roughly equal to that of women such as "financial abortions"?
@@frbe0101 Feminism brings up issues like this and has more genuine and effective conversations. The problem with the MRA is its lack of a cohesive message and the fact many of its members have ulterior motives. If the MRA wants to be taken seriously it should purge the sexists from its community, but it is likely the majority. In this very debate you had Asian Andy and Bumble Bee Incel describe their toxic masculinity and wear it as a badge of honor. Imagine arguing for men not to be disposable tough guys while advocating for " Men being men, tough and willing to sacrifice." I have nothing against any MRAS that ally with feminism, but anti feminist MRAS are a bad batch and ineffective in their cause.
@@dolerbom I would say the problem with feminism is its lack of cohesive message, go to the r/gendercritical for example, attempts to purge the TERF from feminism has failed. The failure of the ERA is a great example because once tradcon women like phyllis schlafly stood up and point out the ERA would put women on the draft and strip parental custody advantages from women, quickly feminist began to split and thus the collapse of the 2nd wave by 1980.
I agree that tradcons in MRA are a living hypocracy, but so is tradcons and misandry in feminism. When you have an advocacy movement for one sex you are bound to get sexists in there, who are bound to demonize the opposite sex. Anti-feminism is a counter to that misandry in feminism, it is not a counter to egalitarian ideal of equality under the law of genders (or all people)
The NCFM has recently been successful in challenging the draft in a court of law: www.npr.org/2019/03/01/699481953/court-ruling-renews-debate-on-women-and-the-draft
I can say we personally have been successful in advocating intactivism at baby exposes, although we are long ways from ever achieving the genital protective rights granted only to girls in this country, we at least have traction in changing the hearts and minds of new mothers one by one.
@@frbe0101 I don't disagree there are problem people in the feminist movement. In real life activism, however, the feminists have been more effective and are trying to push intersectionality. Second wave feminism is dying because it focuses on only women. I am not against the concept of men's rights activists, I just see a lot more sexists involved in that movement than I do in the feminist movement.
@@dolerbom Well then read gendercritical more, also what you see is not a statistical sample anyways, more so it is irrelevant! When feminist get rid of the draft and male circumcision, institute financial abortion and reproductive rights for men, etc, then I will actually believe they care about men to. Until then we are left with two groups who focus on issues for one sex or the other, not both.
Consider for a moment in France it is illegal for a man to get a paternity test if the mother does not want it, do feminist there give a fuck?
Does anyone have a video of Destiny reading the incels post?
It's actually insane how crazy americans are about height. I'm 5"6, fat and still live with my parents but had 9 girlfriends while there are americans that are 5"8 thin and independent but still never had a girlfriend. The key is confidence and being funny, nothing else matters. You could literally be a hobbo who hasn't showered for 12 weeks getting a girlfriend with those traits.
@aye b0ss 28
Where you from tho?
@@migueljuarez6788 germany, but does it really matter where I'm from?
As a guy who was always funny but only recently became confident, these are personality traits someone can't just make themselves have. More likely, you just have a personality that vibes better with the women around you.
Fuck off, I am 6'9 and never had a gf before, I call it BS.
I really like the distinction you made about being emotional vs the response to those emotions. For whatever reason, I always tied being emotional with a negative response, but I think you explained it pretty gracefully.
No one gonna say anything about Destiny’s silence over the locker room banter segment?
He was silent on a lot of parts. He prolly thinks that if you are sexist and those listening to you are susceptible to sexism you should not do sexist jokes.
@@onlyeveryone2253 Yup, because he's says nigger in the locker rooms.
I know tons of guys who will swipe right for every girl on Tinder then delete them after. Its a completely different game for men and women on Tinder.
Women have the chance of getting a match on way more guys because of this.
It's not women who get more matches on tinder, it's people being targeted by men
Gonzalo Cabrejas Moya you just posted cringe
@@wisemage0 yeah right hahaha. Well, not my intention. I'm just saying what destiny said relates to my experience dating men and women. Men just match to a broader group of people
@@yahoruz nah, I talk from personal experience
@@do_care919 anecdotes mean nothing like lmao
@@yahoruz ok
How the hell can women get more matches then men on Tinder?
Every match that happens is one man and one woman.
Obviously not true for non-straight people but that's not what we're talking about here.
because the top 10% of men get 90% of the matches?
"By being too emotional, it stopped me from being honest and forward." Why do I feel like this statement makes no sense?
Because they were being too emotional.
@@TheGreatslyfer It's hard to fake emotions, they are usually pretty honest right?
Maybe he's talking about like feeling too ashamed to actually talk about root causes or insecuritiesor something?
@@connorp3030 This is probably it.
Destiny was not preferred to be invited over the incel guy in this debate.
Destiny's statements on emotional vs rational action/reaction are basically a summary of Stoicism, which afaik is a philosophy which states that in order to be successful in life, one needs to accept all things out of ones control, rationalize which actions can be taken and attempt to find and execute the objectively most optimal course of action.
Emotional responses should be acknowledged, dissected into useful and useless portions, then knowing what is within ones control, one can choose a productive course of action.
Kursat has a TH-cam channel with a video titled “delicious feminist tears”, I think that says enough.
Exactly.
@@onalos1271 usually misandrists, has closed communities that talk how all of them hate men and trying to filter their community as much as they can, while misogynists are trying to be big and loud. I think it's because on the internet there are many more men into politics watching this type of content and supporting it, while women doing the same thing feel outnumbered since there are fewer women interested in that and having a more hidden approach. But it's nothing but speculation from my point of view.
@@onalos1271 Because feminists vacate any platform where they're confronted with opposing opinion, go check out places like tumblr. Only neo-feminists behave childishly enough to warrant such videos to begin with. You can thank feminism for the # of misogynists btw, a number which is only going to keep growing as feminism grows louder and more belligerent.
yeah so what? he's an antifeminist mra what's this "gotcha" meant to be. Dudes done incredible work using title IX to stop sex based discrimination in education for years, I think that says a lot more to his character imo.
I feel like a lot of MRAs are willfully ignoring the fact that a lot of the issues they perceive as men's oppression come about as a result of the very structures feminism seeks or at least should seek to challenge/destroy
@Ult_R4nger 94 cool well I think you mean exacerbated and also the duluth model was made almost forty years ago. It doesn't take into account a lot of things that it ought to in order to be more universally applicable. Modern feminism, at least in my experience, is much more gender critical. The type of feminists on social media today (or at least all of the ones I have ever seen) are vocal about the fact that abuse can be leveraged against men or women.
@Ult_R4nger 94 Outdated feminist theory. Obviously the feminist movement has not been flawless throughout its existence. Some early suffragettes were pretty racist and for a long time mainstream feminism neglected the plight of LGBT women and women of color. The point I was making is that the feminist movement has changed and the "men's rights movements" is pretty much completely reactionary and it's existence demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of what people mean when they talk about oppression.
@Ult_R4nger 94 The White Feather Campaign? From the 1940's? These are all really dated examples. I personally, in seven years of engaging with feminism, have never heard a feminist make the case that male victims of abuse aren't valid or shouldn't be treated with same level of respect afforded to female victims. The whole point of discussions about toxic masculinity is to address the societal roles that paint men as solely being the perpetrators (among other things obviously). I feel like MRAs are just intentionally refusing to engage with feminism in any meaningful way or even understand it. Also I think it's sort of absurd that you that you think the basis of the male gaze theory is women's 'insecurity' and not the very real psychological and societal repercussions of objectification, but that's besides the point.
Ult_R4nger 94 Ult_R4nger 94 I don’t think you understand what male gaze theory is at all and I don’t really want to waste my time explaining it to you. There are multiple studies on the damage objectification does to women. Also, women are not inherently drawn to things like aggression, stoicism, etc. A lot of modern male celebrities don’t display a single one of those traits, actually quite the opposite, and many women adore them so I’m not sure where this claim comes from. This idea that women actively wish to detract from “men’s rights” just confuses me. I don’t know of any prominent feminists that don’t believe men suffer as a result of patriarchy. The issues that MRAs talk about are the consequences of a system created by other men which prescribed men and women certain roles.
@Ult_R4nger 94 Okay honestly we must've just had very different experiences with women because half the stuff you mention is not something I have ever seen personally. Not all women want the same thing, not even a majority of women want the same thing. Also the talk I believe you're referring to was not just Farrel talking about suicide I'm pretty sure it was a general discussion on 'men's issues'. This isn't really a hill I'm willing to die on, but it's my understanding that people protested his presence there because they felt the men's rights movement is, at it's core, pretty misogynistic. Not entirely unfair when taking into account some of the ways some MRAs frame issues. Also feminists wanting men to acknowledge their privilege is not at all expecting men to perform some sort of gendered role. That is not a 'protector' thing feminists want men to understand where they're coming from and support gender equality. Also I don't think you get what I mean. These societal issues aren't wholly the fault of all men living today. The patriarchal structure of society was created by men because men have historically had a monopoly on power. Both men and women are capable of upholding the structures that oppress women and hurt men. My issue with MRAs is that the issues they talk about have nothing to do with men's oppression and everything to do with the patriarchal system I've talked about earlier backfiring and rather than try to maybe introduce more discussion about how the patriarchy hurts men into feminist circles they retreat into an odd circle jerk where men are somehow the disadvantaged group in society. I'm done talking to you.
That game Destiny was playing looks fun, whats it called?
Stardew valley
It's a good game. Buy a copy for you and a loved one.
5:48 can anyone decipher what it is Destiny was trying to say with this passage of word vomit?
might be over thinking it but i have to wonder how the environment effects these conversations. super uncomfortable chairs in some dudes garage with dark as fuck lighting most people would be on edge. this look less like a place to hold a debate or have a friendly chat and more like where i'd expect to wake up if i was kidnapped
carl Carrington the filmmakers of jubilee are suck using horror and thriller techniques to realize that documentaries are different things.
Does anyone have a link for when destiny was on that panel at 11:44?
Breasts do have a defined function of milk production. The breasts DID definitely form before the sexual attraction to them , as we see breasts swell among a lot of mammals whenever their bodies are preparing for nursing. It's not far from already being a sexual characteristic, so it really isn't your best example to use when discussing biological versus social evolutionary reasons for sexual dimorphism, as it most definitely does take factors from both the biological and social side.
But women having breast even when they are not breastfeeding, no other primate has full breasts when they aren't with child
Wait why are these concepts opposite?
@@onalos1271 First of all I'm very sure the stereotype existed long before gamergate, second of all there were female gamers in the gamergate movement that felt attacked as well and "threw a fit". Gamergate was a very complex event with multiple parties with very different views, the end winners were obviously yes the conservatives that used it as a proving ground for dividing people and bring them to conservative side via demonizing the left and trolls who had soo much fun pissing everyone off and causing chaos.
I would say MRA and feminist divide occurred in the 1970's when Warren Farrell was excommunicated from feminism. I would say the problem is that feminism covers a wide range of different philosophies and so does MRA, some of them like tradcons on the MRA side and TERF on the feminist side are very loud and very obtuse and hold positions that are mutually exclusive, while more egalitarian people in between could in fact get along if not for the tribalism behind labels.
@@frbe0101 Feminism and Men's Rights are not compatible.
Feminism is fighting for preferential treatment, and MRA's are fighting for rights.
And the divide started way before Warren Farrell (as understand of males issues of today).
If you get a chance, check these out.
th-cam.com/video/M_Ed2BIOHbQ/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/VMkWdpFSXPA/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/PqEeCCuFFO8/w-d-xo.html
@@notsmine9191 they are compatible. Just dyaujf they're not is false. Feminism is about equality of the sexes. Cherry picking a bunch of man hating feminazi types doesn't make it any less true.
@@notsmine9191 Well that would depend on who you define as "feminism" and "MRA" a tradcon that advocate for women being forced into mothering roles in the home is not advocating for equal rights, and a feminist saying society needs to do something about her feeling unsafe because of her risk of murder is asking for preferential treatment (men run a higher risk of being murdered, a general fear of being murdered as a women is not statistically reality)
@@frbe0101 You know there is a difference between wanting what is desirable and works best for the majority of humans (not everyone need follow it tho) and forcing it into them are not the same right?
Wanting a wife and family isn't bad. Its what humans have generally done throughout history, and is still desirable for most of us. Just because it doesn't work for everyone doesn't mean people can't still see it as what's best (if people want it).
And as you say. Men are much more likely to be assaulted, killed, or commit suicide, and yet "women feel more unsafe".
They are more safe them men are, and we Still need to keep doing more for them....
(this isn't me saying we can't work on anything, but i care about both men and women, and not solely working on women's issue while never caring about men's issues like feminism).
Yes toxic masculinity is real
@Timemaster f both can be there case. Toxic people are toxic people
Steven "It's entirely possible" Bonnell
... oh wait... wrong channel.
😂
12:30 I like how she is explaining toxic masculinity where men aren't allowed to cry, and then *immediately* laughs as she explains that someone she rejected almost cried.
Don't you agree it's kinda dumb to cry over a rejection because you feel entitled to date another human being? Those things are not mutually exclusive
Being allowed to cry doesn't mean that you can cry at anything without it being considered weird. It would have looked equally silly if the genders were reversed
@@partlycurrent I don't think that is a psychology of it, one cries over rejection because one is not up to the standards of the person they love, now if they got angry instead that might be entitlement.
@@frbe0101 im not sure how literal the situation was explained, so I'd like to refrain from more speculation about psychology.
Any entitlement is wrong. That goes both ways. Just because you're nice, doesn't mean you're entitled to a relationship
@@partlycurrent No one is entitled to love, yes I agree, other entitlements like say social security, universal healthcare, clean water and air, a right to not be murdered, etc, I am more prone to say are not wrong so much as necessary in order to have a prosperous civilization; but people don't need to be loved in order for civilization to prosper so I'm willing to not call that a right and leave it as a entitlement.
MRA: *lists issues of men*
Feminists: my problems are worse than yours.
MRA: We think these problems are to be adressed and we want to stand for it.
Feminists: Were you raped?
-gosh just help each other instead of trying to put your problems above the other's
These guys besides the one with the accent weren't real MRA. The last one was kinda antifeminism which is also not the way.
Just try and accept each side and try to solve and coexist...
Aceeton
Maybe us women and the majority of men would consider Men Rights Activists movement legit if it was born from truly wanting to help men instead of actually being born to try and silence women because it makes them uncomfortable.
No feminist in the video said her problems are worse than men or invalidated their feelings.
@@karlaruiz8685 It's always the same dumb take. We form countless organisations, political parties,and charities to address our issues, whilst having never protested any feminist event or lobbied against any feminist bill, yet it's always "you just hate women, you don't care about men". Doing this hundreds of times is gonna black pill me.
@@wisemage0 That’s what I’m saying, I’m not against fixing the problems.
Destiny reacted without calling it reacting in this debate.
does anyone have a link to a vid of the jlp panel?
Lelouch? Is that you?
This issue with "Feminism" is that it is can force a bias in one direction. The name itself make it seem as if people are seeking only gains for woman or feminine aspects of the world. Meaning to raise woman up and put man down. This is best played out in how little support for masculine issues being talked about from Feminist. I think there needs to be a re-branding. Stop calling it Feminism and call it Humanism. This name better suit what the end goal is. The end goal is to make both men and woman equal. Not just to bring women's rights equal to men rights but to also bring men's rights to an equal level as women for rights in which women have more power.
I would love to call myself a Feminist if I knew that Feminism supported and fought for men's rights just as much as they do women's rights.
lol does anyone have the link to the video where Destiny goes over the incel's posts about him?
He mentions it at about 11:40
Destiny's editor contravened Destiny's request not to be called a 'reactor' in this debate.
Destiny when you talked about the wage gap you got it wrong. While some numbers like the 77 cents on per dollar figure is an aggregate number the real wage gap is controlled for and is more like 92-98 cents per dollar. You yourself has brought this up a number of times and I find it odd that you would make this error here.
Of course Men rights/incels were JLP fans
There was one incel.
Jamaica Labour Party?
frbe0101 Justice League Patrons. #releasethesnydercut
Ya, how dare anyone be a fan of someone who is trying to help men and women....
@@notsmine9191 Well the Jamaica Labor Party is trying to help men and women of Jamaica specifically.
that ceo's point could also be explained to the fact that growing up most ceo's are already in a wealthy position thus able to get more nutritious food as they grow up, (which is a big indicator of height) as in countries with better food supply tend to have taller populations
Since WW2 the nutritional intake in industrialized countries didn't vary enough to suggest that there is really a conection there. It's more about comparing countries, than sectors of one society
I can cry over anything, I'm a man. Just cry, tf do you care?
Scared Crow
You’re a woman lol stop faking
What software is used to get pixture-in-picture like that so that he can watch videos whilst playing games?
Chrome and Firefox can both do this
@@CheeseAndRice524 How so, if you dont mind me asking?
I appreciate Destiny playing Stardew Valley as an unrelated note. Love that game.
Andrew B but its related
The game is example of generally healthy society.
Guys might get worse outcomes in family court? 90% or more of cases give women primary custody. Destiny is usually pretty honest with the facts I hope this was just an argument from ignorance.
Pretty sure he said that in contrast to women being subjected to sexual violence more. He didn't deny the court bias, he just said that its a separate issue from what the woman was talking about.
Destiny had a stroke reading some guy's sentence in this debate.
what game is destiny playing?
Stardew Valley
@@pat17yearago75 thanks I wanna check I out it looks fun
0:55
looks at title
back to 0:55
Why does destiny only fish next to the rock? Is there some hidden stat buff there?
Feminism just needs to rebrand everything
WhY iS iT CaLlEd "FEM"InIsm??!
Number one argument if you confront MRAs about feminism having issue with men's rights
4444 1414
I mean ya, if they called it something else and called toxic masculinity something else then MRAs would essentially agree
@@JohnDoe-jq4re But something I was thinking about, can't MRAs say the same thing?
"Wow you agree on the courts system against men, you're basically a men's rights activist now!" Which a response would likely be, that that implies they'd be subscribing to things they don't necessarily agree with.
Maybe even if it was egalitarianism instead of feminism they'd still find things they don't like about it and it's posibble that older or current feminists become alienated
@@brandonden795
"WhY iS iT CaLlEd "FEM"InIsm??!
Number one argument if you confront MRAs about feminism having issue with men's rights"
That's not the even close to the first thing we care about. The very first thing we care about is boys and men's rights and all the issues they face. And then because this ideological movement is causing harm to men and boys by not caring about their problems, or actively fighting against men's rights. We take issue with feminism as well.
Oh, and in case you didn't know, most of us are also WRA's (women's rights activist), which is not the same as the sexist movement of feminism.
@@brandonden795 Does "flour" come from flowers?
All i hear from the feminists is what the men need to do to fix womens problems. I think it would be more productive if feminists would worry as much about their role in fixing their problems and men should try to do the same.
30:16 - Destiny's take is pretty accurate. I would wager, (I could be wrong) most people on Tinder are looking firstly for casual sexual encounters and secondly long term relationships. If true, there are studies on this. On Average men's standards for casual sexual interactions are lower than women's. In short term relationships, like casual sex, men generally just need their partner to be at a minimum physical attractiveness (this is somewhat lower for men than women). However, women have more requirements at a much higher standard for casual sexual encounters such as kindness, intelligence, and earning capacity.
Reference: (Kenrick, Sadalla, Groth, & Trost, 1990)
(Li & Kenrick, 2006) is another relevant study. Unfortunately these studies are not open access.
This take is a cop out. If you removed all the people looking for casual sex, the gap would still exist. Also Tinder does not provide much information to judge kindness, intelligence, and earning capacity.
from 1990 to tinder today wow
@@didles123yeah women are such Hypocrites, because they talked about how they care about non-physical things like intellect or personality or interest but it's convenient how the guys that they do find the have intellect or personality or interests are also good looking
Maybe the same side who declares she doesn't need a man to protect her shouldn't also be the side declaring that her physical safety is in danger every time she considers her wardrobe.
I think the medical bias between men being more likely to be prescribed pain medication comes from the idea that because of masculinity a man won't admit he's in pain until he's REALLY in pain. There's stories of tough old farmers gashing their leg open and refusing to go to the hospital because work needs to get done and then they die. So the idea that men won't waste a doctors time over trivial matters likely comes down to that. I'm not saying it's correct or that all men are like that or that women will tend to waste a doctors time but that's seems to be where that bias could come from.
That's decent hypothesis.
Do black men complain about pain more than white men, though?
@@alex-qd6of I mean we did have a lot of negative stereotypes of black people being drug dealers/smokers.
@@wisemage0 they both make sense from the context of subconscious bias.
"If there's something that makes you emotional, there's nothing wrong with it, as long as your responses to it are fine."
That's where the miscommunication is; he's conflating emotion with reaction and you're misunderstanding that.
It's semantics. From his perspective, "being emotional" is an action rather than a feeling.
When he thinks "emotional", he thinks crying, yelling, becoming violent, etcetera and those are actions.
When you think "emotional", you think sad, angry, joyous, etcetera and those are feelings.
What is constantly overlooked here is the whole "stop crying", "man/toughen up" thing is just an very poorly worded way to accomplish one of three things;
cause someone to stop reacting to something in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable, which shouldn't require explanation as to why that's fucked up...
... cause someone to repress emotions/sensations due to the stigma of weakness/ineptitude tied to the lack of self-control associated with reactive outbursts, because men were often tasked with being the protector and the odds of being able to control a situation to prevent (further) harm are lower when you can't even control yourself (and the damage emotional repression causes to mental health wasn't properly addressed for so long that, obviously, fixing the damage that ideology has caused is taking a long time)...
... and lastly, cause someone to redirect their emotional reactions into something more productive (like dressing a fresh wound efficiently rather than just crying about it on the floor/ground, throwing a tantrum that more wastes time than resolves an issue, communicating more healthily with someone about something that upsets you rather than yelling at and/or abusing them verbally or otherwise), which promotes modifying your reaction to be more productive rather than repressing it.
I don't believe the last option is wrong but I agree that the wording used to suggest it could certainly be better than "stop being a pussy" and the like. Better wording could be "I know you're in pain but let's focus that attention on fixing the problem instead so the pain goes away sooner or doesn't hurt so much". Of course, there's nothing to suggest you can't simultaneously cry and address the problem but, if crying is your conscious reaction to the problem rather than a subconscious reaction that can't healthily be redirected, then you could probably put that attention to work on something more productive.
Impostor Syndrome is a psychological disorder (which is involuntary) and a lot of people who suffer from it tend to be either hyper-competitive or eager to be validated/admired. It isn't always necessarily about "male fragility".
I disagree that women aren't expected to contribute much in terms of strong personality. The "strong independent woman" has been the feminine version of the new "man card" for the last decade, at least, and it pertains specifically to having a strong personality on top of financial independence. Couple that with the "female empowerment" trope that encourages strong personality. The push for "strong female leads" in movies and television persists today, as we can see with reactions to Captain Marvel, Wonder woman, the latest in the Star Wars franchise (just to name a few of many more) from the female viewership. The idea that the vast majority of society expects women to just shut the fuck up, chill, and sit back is greatly removed from our current reality.
“If you’re 5’8 and you think height is the main thing holding you back, you probably have some other issues to think about.”
Dude knit this into a fucking blanket. I’m a 5’9 and I have never cared if a dude is a little shorter than me. The only time it’s been an issue is when they are insecure in their height, and it’s only happened to me online. This shit just doesn’t matter in real life. I’m currently dating a guy who is 5’8 and am basically obsessed with him (in a nice, healthy way lol). Short kings rise up. Get off the computer and meet real people.
its not a problem for you, but there are genuinly girls who care about height and make it a big deal thats why some short guys are insecure
Male vision reacts to dynamic movement more so I bet that's why we get distracted by bouncing TT's
44:05 this bias against men is strong argument that supports feminists (because society think that women are generally weak and less capable of harm they unfairly get less sentence than men for same crime) vaush explained this beautifully when he reacted to the same video
So why is it OK to put people into groups by their sex and skin color and then say that group as a whole needs to do "better" when you even don't know the person you are talking to?
Love your recent videos Destiny. I give 0 shits about twitch drama and such, but these discussion and commentary videos are very interesting!
Excellent comedic timing on that "You made it work"
I can't stand when dudes ramble on about "Protecting Women".
Have they seen the death rates for men their age? Go save yourself.
Men are assaulted and/or killed more then women all over the world by far.
Women feel most threaten.
And we still aren't doing enough to "protect women"..........
@@notsmine9191 Did you know _male suicide rates harm women more?..._
@@louiscyfear878 I believe it.
The problem with what Destiny said about boobs is that they're expensive to posture and they get in the way.
The fact that they impose a cost strongly suggests they were sexually selected for.
Btw love ya bro.
Super inspired by your confidence
Honestly the incel dude seems (to me at least) have a lot of confidence and charisma, if he were to just take care of himself more, work out, and dress better he could probably do fairly well with women
Wage gap exists truly to the fact of negotiation, men tend to be more competitive, therefore are more successful at negotiating their salary, or even hourly wage. It's possible that there is some discrimination there, but there is no proof of that.
It pisses me off that no one looks at that when discussing that topic.
When it comes to toxic masculinity, it's when you loose rage over a small thing, having too much arrogance that it starts eating you up inside.
Now fathers repress their emotion to to be on high alert, or to stay strong and rational...the question is that toxic?
I hate when feminists say toxic masculinity is bad they say you should be able to show your emotions but then don't go into the the real issues like how if a man is abused by their wife they just laugh like wtf dont be offended for us on non issues and go silent on the real issues
A lot of guys sure expect girls to just land in their lap for some reason.
Because guys land into girls laps and men want to have that same experience. Makes sense to me, but I guess things just don't work that way.
*the MRA movement, in a nutshell.
Haywire5714 I think its less landing than men actively throwing themselves at them. Look at any ig model for examples. If they took a moment they’d realize this is a bs system men have built over the course of human history.
Haywire5714 you might be surprised at the sheer number of girls and women who would say “guys land into girls laps” is not their experience lol. I get that there’s some truth to your point, js be careful not to assume the grass is always greener
@@Haywire5714 Guys willingly choose to land on the lap of women (even when a lot of them don't want that_ therefore woman should do the same even if they don't want to?
Throughout this Destiny talks about how feminism needs a rebranding and to do away with the blaming "patriarchy" and "toxic masculinity" so then the MRAs wouldn't feel so attacked and they'd actually agree on a lot of things... The problem with this is Destiny doesn't understand the different branches of feminism... These are known as radical feminists and to be a radical feminist is to blame a societies' patriarchy for gender inequality... The problem is not (necessarily) how they present feminism to be, the problem is that they are basically the toxic branch of feminism (along with Marxist feminists who blame gender inequality on wealth inequality)... What Destiny really wants is both/either of liberal feminists and/or difference feminists (there are many other branches of feminism as well, but I use this typology since it's a lot simpler than delving into like a dozen different types like empirical feminism and such)
Honestly, if these feminists heard Destiny say that, they'd probably be insulted and tell him stuff like he doesn't understand it and isn't qualified to talk about it because of his privilege from being a cis white male... That's how MOST radical feminists (the particularly dumb ones) tend to argue with a lot of people so that they don't have to consider the actual arguments being made because it's much easier for them to gatekeep the conversation... What Destiny really ought to do is discuss feminism with Christina Hoff Sommers, a liberal feminist (or as she puts it personally, an 'equity' feminist) so that radical feminists aren't getting so much representation online...
I had a political science course I took which discussed these branches of feminism and ever since I've just seen radical feminists everywhere online and people hating on feminism despite having the positions of a liberal or difference feminist and it bothers me any time feminism is being discussed... SO MANY PEOPLE AGREE ON SO MANY THINGS!!! The problems are just from radical and marxist feminists as well as people who are just legitimately sexist (or perhaps some people who are super religious/traditionalist and want a return to ye olde days...) But the average person who isn't those things will be in agreement... The people who are (or hold the positions of) the liberal feminists, difference feminists or the non-radical, non-traditionalist MRAs...
In summary, I agree with Destiny that if these feminists and MRAs just became liberal feminists or difference feminists then everyone would mostly agree and probably get more done for the sake of gender equality... But also, these radical feminists would absolutely not do that because they don't JUST spout 'patriarchy', patriarchy is the enemy of their ideology that they need to fight to bring gender equality and so they will not stop blaming patriarchy... Even when things seem fairly equal between the genders they will just make up new things to blame on the 'patriarchy' to keep the feeling that they are oppressed victims going... Heck, I feel like some radical feminists would say that a man on death row who is more likely to be executed is still more privileged than a woman who is less likely to be executed...
Good take.
That guy in the yellow jacket is legit scary
Just to add, the lack of contact and attention has been noticed in human babies too. The studies were done by observing babies in orphanages, overall it was noticed that babies even though they were properly taken care of physically, like food, cleanliness etc. would die in large numbers, and the difference between orphanages with a lot of deaths and the ones where most babies thrived was how much time the care takers spent just in contact with the babies, holding them, talking to them etc. I honestly forgot the name of the scientists that did the research it was done i think after ww2. Lack of contact in early life is also seen as a risk factor in developing autism spectrum disorders. Its a big part of why the behaviorist "baby box" was a failure. We are social creatures we need contact with other living beings to thrive.
Destiny until you have been through the family court system. Shhhhh
bingo
Honest question about the boobs thingy at 7:40
I mean he's always gonna be right about that their MIGHT be some other explenation other than evolutionary pressure, we can't really ever know for sure. This goes for everything, so i feel like it's kind of a dumb thing to say.
I mean if the biologists or whatever scientests feel confident enough to say 'we believe there was selection involved in boobs', isn't that just it? What he's saying is always true and completely unfalsifiable