Took a look doing some testing of my own, and in the tacview HUD it's very clear that it loses track at about 60 seconds of flight time, no matter the altitude. Agree that it's probably guidance power source running out.
As airplane is sending guidance to the missile, it might be that missile is too far from airplane, so the radio link gets broken. Another possibility is that airplane radar is not able to see missile anymore and does not know where it is; thus cannot guide it to the target anymore (that reason seems even more probable). And quote from wikipedia: "The maximum range of a SARH system is determined by energy density of the transmitter. Increasing transmit power can increase energy density. Reducing the noise bandwidth of the transmitter can also increase energy density. Spectral density matched to the receive radar detection bandwidth is the limiting factor for maximum range."
I think you're thinking of command guidance missiles, which isnt this one. we've determined it to be battery life, as it also starts dropping exactly 60s into its flight
The launch aircraft is getting closer to the target so the reflected radar should be increasing in strength. If it can read it at launch it can read it at the end of flight.
The more missiles you test, the more obvious it seems that DCS could use an overhaul of missile accuracy. (well, the DCS mods that adds missiles anyway.)
yeah, i dont really see why the mods are even included here. (Without being its own category) Battery life would probably cut the top 3 missiles short aswell, but that probably isnt even modeled, and if it is. Its highly unlikely that we have accurate flight models for chinese missiles, AIM-120D's and most other missiles
Missiles have been completely FUBAR in DCS for 5-6 years now. When they started doing updated aerodynamic models for FC-3 planes, they broke the drag coefficients for all the missiles. The AMRAAM turned into an ICBM and everything else turned into MANPADS
@@ShuRugal Missiles have been rather... fluid? I remember that time an SD-10 could fly almost 50% further then an amraam for example. I hope that with ED having taken back control of missiles we will see some improvement some day
Easy enough to test if it's a programming anomaly. Battery life is time not distance. Therefore fire it at different speeds/alts and see if it turns off, (stops tracking), after fixed time or distance and you'll have your answer. If RMax then programming. If same time battery.
@Greenish Man This has happend mutiple times in the past. USSR has downed Korean airliners before, and U.S also downed an Iran airliner too. MH17 was also downed a few years ago. The most recent one is from last year, where Iran downed an Ukriane airline just took off from their airport.
@@qiyuxuan9437 What's more worrying is almost all events like this are entirely the fault of the shooter. Korean flight 007 made a navigation error (not that that justifies the soviet air defences shooting it down). All the others could have done absolutely nothing to prevent being shot down. They are all examples of shocking incompetence and/or extremely trigger happy soldiers or commanders assuming a threat as the first and only possibility.
@@jackroutledge352 Exactly, every sensitive technology, missiles, radars, sensors, EW etc. more modern than the Cold War is guestimated. They can model Desert Storm Sparrow or R-23/24/27 reasonably realistically, but obviously not AMRAAM or AIM-9X. That's why we don't have AIM-120 different PRF modes, DL peer guidance etc.
Can you please test R-27ET the ir fox 2 variant. I'm curious about the range of that missile because it could br very deadly at longer range(no rwr ping and its not expected)
If it didn't need a lock before launch, it could be good as a long range surprise attack. Set a distance for its seeker to turn on and just launch it in the desired direction. The IR sensor will be weaker without the cooling but it should still be all aspect.
@@grimreapersTo measure the range with IRST you need a laser return, it's obviously limited in range. Next thing is: at ranges above 10-15 km you need a clear weather, no clouds, big hot target against clear cold sky, ideally running away on full afterburner.
Hello Super Cap and all the beautiful Reapers. I have been greatly enjoying the series on attacking the carrier fleet and wanted to suggest a tactic of using commercial shipping as moving cover to get in strike range of the fleet. In an area that bottle necked, it seems reasonable that there could be enough traffic where you could leap frog from cover to cover.
Im curious how dcs models battery life. I'm assuming it is a simple timer so as to make it easier on the computer. If so it should be possible to change the number and confirm that is the cause.
Actually, there is a parameter you can change in the missile database for battery life for each missile measured in seconds. As I remember for the R-27ER it was 60sec.
You can't change that battery life number without making a "new" missile, usually in a mod. Eagle Dynamics locked those parameters from being changed on patch 2.7, so now all the missiles that are currently modeled are not able to be changed. You can copy that missile's FM and then rename the to change it, but there are several layers of headache involved with that. The REALLY funny part of this is: Life_Time = 1000000000 That is the battery life code for the R-27ER as of 2.7.2, source: github.com/Quaggles/dcs-lua-datamine/blob/master/_G/rockets/P_27PE.lua So either that value is too high for DCS to process, or it isn't battery life that's causing this. Further, if you time the video, that was a little over 30 seconds of missile flight time, maybe 40. That's well within the battery timer of all modern missiles.
I wonder how this compares to real life, pretty sure all missile batteries would have been replaced with Li ion by now and would have a life of maybe 5 mins which would hugely extend the range. would be interesting to see how far missiles could actually fly and home in on a target if you could change the parameters.
It is incredibly irritating that ED has kept the R-27 missiles in such a pitiful state for so long. Why don't they loft? Why are they still using the old drag model when other missiles are using the new drag model?
Because redfor modules are dramatically cheaper. The Aim120C-5 in DCS shoots more than *40% farther than it’s real world counterpart* and the R27’s shoots only 60% as far as its real world counter part. The connection is that the Flankers and the Mig are low fidelity and the F16 and F18 are high fidelity.
@@92HazelMocha It's hard to say what the missiles do in real life because it depends so much on launch parameters and how range is measured. You know that Raytheon and Vympel are not publishing figures from an independent laboratory who follow the exact methodology of Cap in DCS. So comparing static numbers usually means nothing. The reliable way to determine missile performance is to do extensive CFD work and figure out from scratch how it responds to X mach at Y altitude with Z angle of attack. And then with things like guidance and batteries, you just hope the information has been released and wasn't locked behind Brezhnev's impenetrable eyebrows.
Somebody, please, tell Cap (on twitch now) to turn back shadows in cockpit. Without it all looks like cheap 15 years old graphics (not about this video).
I can't get my r23er to fire outside of like 12km range. I enter BVR mode, lock up a target at like 50km, get closer waiting for launch authority and only get it when I enter 10km range. How are you launching them at 40M
@@grimreapers You do have it, the name of the missile is the RVV-L and you tested it already a few months ago while reviewing the Su-35S mod. It's a very good long range missile.
I know this is an old video but I'm gonna ask anyway how did you fire the missile outside of "LA", was that a cheat or is there a way to do that in the aircraft without any funny business?
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS (LOW graphics preset settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+ at 3+ GHz or AMD FX / Ryzen; RAM: 16 GB (32 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 / AMD Radeon RX VEGA 56 with 8GB VRAM or better; Joystick; requires internet activation. RECOMMENDED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS(HIGH graphics preset settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+ at 4+ GHz or AMD FX / Ryzen; RAM: 16 GB (32 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 / AMD Radeon RX VEGA 64 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation. RECOMMENDED VR SYSTEMS REQUIREMENTS (VR graphics settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i7-9700 / AMD Ryzen 3700X or better; RAM: 32 GB; Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 2080 Ti / AMD Radeon RX 5700 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation. All rights reserved. (c) 2021 Eagle Dynamics SA
It does. Aim120C-5 is less than 60nm (it’s over 80nm in dcs) and the R27ER is over 80nm (only 48nm in this video). The difference is that the Mig and Flanker are $15 and the Viper and Hornet are $80.
![[#2024MAMA] BIGBANG (빅뱅) - 뱅뱅뱅 (BANG BANG BANG) + FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EQsYfiPR9uM/mqdefault.jpg)
Took a look doing some testing of my own, and in the tacview HUD it's very clear that it loses track at about 60 seconds of flight time, no matter the altitude. Agree that it's probably guidance power source running out.
thx
Old russian batteries...
"A380 DRONEE!! No people in it" lmao
As airplane is sending guidance to the missile, it might be that missile is too far from airplane, so the radio link gets broken. Another possibility is that airplane radar is not able to see missile anymore and does not know where it is; thus cannot guide it to the target anymore (that reason seems even more probable). And quote from wikipedia: "The maximum range of a SARH system is determined by energy density of the transmitter. Increasing transmit power can increase energy density. Reducing the noise bandwidth of the transmitter can also increase energy density. Spectral density matched to the receive radar detection bandwidth is the limiting factor for maximum range."
I think you're thinking of command guidance missiles, which isnt this one.
we've determined it to be battery life, as it also starts dropping exactly 60s into its flight
The launch aircraft is getting closer to the target so the reflected radar should be increasing in strength. If it can read it at launch it can read it at the end of flight.
@@ctfraven Sorry, I confused... yes in that case battery life seems like best explanation.
@@Reactordrone i think he meant the radio contact plane radar - missile
I love how the thumbnail is literally a War Crime happening
There might be a Russian soldier in the 380 👀
The more missiles you test, the more obvious it seems that DCS could use an overhaul of missile accuracy. (well, the DCS mods that adds missiles anyway.)
yeah, i dont really see why the mods are even included here. (Without being its own category) Battery life would probably cut the top 3 missiles short aswell, but that probably isnt even modeled, and if it is. Its highly unlikely that we have accurate flight models for chinese missiles, AIM-120D's and most other missiles
Missiles have been completely FUBAR in DCS for 5-6 years now. When they started doing updated aerodynamic models for FC-3 planes, they broke the drag coefficients for all the missiles. The AMRAAM turned into an ICBM and everything else turned into MANPADS
@@ShuRugal Missiles have been rather... fluid? I remember that time an SD-10 could fly almost 50% further then an amraam for example. I hope that with ED having taken back control of missiles we will see some improvement some day
Easy enough to test if it's a programming anomaly. Battery life is time not distance. Therefore fire it at different speeds/alts and see if it turns off, (stops tracking), after fixed time or distance and you'll have your answer. If RMax then programming. If same time battery.
Super Cap doing the important work!
Dcs should add The R27 EA with an active radar seeker from the R77 ,with a range of 130kms
Now that would be cool.
Why? That was never in service with anyone.
@@nagantm441 it in service since 2010,India also bought then in 2019
@@Aes880 no they got the R-77. No one ever got the ea
@@Aes880 and Russian fighters in DCS are from before 2000
R-33 next?
Anyone thinking this is just a DCS bug? The missile will go dumb when it reaches the maximum range
The airliner should have been full of people! 😂
Only if you are using a Su-17 as your test shooter.
That would be WCS(War Crime Simulator)😂
Let's pretend it was full with useless politicians who destroying peoples lifes
@Greenish Man This has happend mutiple times in the past. USSR has downed Korean airliners before, and U.S also downed an Iran airliner too. MH17 was also downed a few years ago. The most recent one is from last year, where Iran downed an Ukriane airline just took off from their airport.
@@qiyuxuan9437 What's more worrying is almost all events like this are entirely the fault of the shooter. Korean flight 007 made a navigation error (not that that justifies the soviet air defences shooting it down). All the others could have done absolutely nothing to prevent being shot down. They are all examples of shocking incompetence and/or extremely trigger happy soldiers or commanders assuming a threat as the first and only possibility.
1:42 Yeah dude, but the range and speed of aim 120D is also unrealistic.
Hard to say. Everyone (ED included) is just guessing at the real capability of these modern missiles. And those that know, aren't telling anyone!
The D variant is from a mod
@@terminus.est. ah ok
@@jackroutledge352 ist just a mod
@@jackroutledge352 Exactly, every sensitive technology, missiles, radars, sensors, EW etc. more modern than the Cold War is guestimated.
They can model Desert Storm Sparrow or R-23/24/27 reasonably realistically, but obviously not AMRAAM or AIM-9X. That's why we don't have AIM-120 different PRF modes, DL peer guidance etc.
5:46 i think this is just unrealistic
Can you please test R-27ET the ir fox 2 variant. I'm curious about the range of that missile because it could br very deadly at longer range(no rwr ping and its not expected)
Should be shorter range then ER by little.
@@TheGranicd It can be nice advantage in bvr fight. You can't tell if it was fired at you and so you will not try to dodge
If it didn't need a lock before launch, it could be good as a long range surprise attack. Set a distance for its seeker to turn on and just launch it in the desired direction. The IR sensor will be weaker without the cooling but it should still be all aspect.
Couldn't get the ET to lock at long range at all.
@@grimreapersTo measure the range with IRST you need a laser return, it's obviously limited in range. Next thing is: at ranges above 10-15 km you need a clear weather, no clouds, big hot target against clear cold sky, ideally running away on full afterburner.
Hello Super Cap and all the beautiful Reapers. I have been greatly enjoying the series on attacking the carrier fleet and wanted to suggest a tactic of using commercial shipping as moving cover to get in strike range of the fleet. In an area that bottle necked, it seems reasonable that there could be enough traffic where you could leap frog from cover to cover.
Ah, great idea!
Please do R77 and sparrow model that lofts in a future test.
rgr
Im curious how dcs models battery life. I'm assuming it is a simple timer so as to make it easier on the computer. If so it should be possible to change the number and confirm that is the cause.
90 secs for AMRAAM haven't measured the others yet.
Actually that may be wrong, was a while ago I measured it ^^
Actually, there is a parameter you can change in the missile database for battery life for each missile measured in seconds.
As I remember for the R-27ER it was 60sec.
@@vashq8 would be interesting to extend the ones that die and see how they perform then
You can't change that battery life number without making a "new" missile, usually in a mod.
Eagle Dynamics locked those parameters from being changed on patch 2.7, so now all the missiles that are currently modeled are not able to be changed.
You can copy that missile's FM and then rename the to change it, but there are several layers of headache involved with that.
The REALLY funny part of this is: Life_Time = 1000000000
That is the battery life code for the R-27ER as of 2.7.2, source: github.com/Quaggles/dcs-lua-datamine/blob/master/_G/rockets/P_27PE.lua
So either that value is too high for DCS to process, or it isn't battery life that's causing this.
Further, if you time the video, that was a little over 30 seconds of missile flight time, maybe 40. That's well within the battery timer of all modern missiles.
I wonder how this compares to real life, pretty sure all missile batteries would have been replaced with Li ion by now and would have a life of maybe 5 mins which would hugely extend the range. would be interesting to see how far missiles could actually fly and home in on a target if you could change the parameters.
I doubt real life r-27s got new types of batteries, they are on the way out
I wonder if new battery is what extended aim120D range so much over 120C
@@hphp31416 dual pulse + electronics size reduction with semi conductors progress freed some room for fuel
It is incredibly irritating that ED has kept the R-27 missiles in such a pitiful state for so long. Why don't they loft? Why are they still using the old drag model when other missiles are using the new drag model?
I don't think they loft in real life
Only R-27EM loft and that enter service in lile 2020
@@Aes880 with who
Because redfor modules are dramatically cheaper. The Aim120C-5 in DCS shoots more than *40% farther than it’s real world counterpart* and the R27’s shoots only 60% as far as its real world counter part. The connection is that the Flankers and the Mig are low fidelity and the F16 and F18 are high fidelity.
@@92HazelMocha It's hard to say what the missiles do in real life because it depends so much on launch parameters and how range is measured. You know that Raytheon and Vympel are not publishing figures from an independent laboratory who follow the exact methodology of Cap in DCS. So comparing static numbers usually means nothing. The reliable way to determine missile performance is to do extensive CFD work and figure out from scratch how it responds to X mach at Y altitude with Z angle of attack. And then with things like guidance and batteries, you just hope the information has been released and wasn't locked behind Brezhnev's impenetrable eyebrows.
Try the r77
Thumbnail: R-27ER about to hit an airliner
Yea, seems 'bout right.
??
@@hemendraravi4787 thumbnail riding on the "russia bad" bandwagon
Next, Sparrows?
6 miles? :(
@@grimreapers LOL!
I've squeezed 15 -20 out of them in tactical use, so an ideal shot has to be worth at least as much :D
Autopilot is broke on Mig-29.
Somebody, please, tell Cap (on twitch now) to turn back shadows in cockpit. Without it all looks like cheap 15 years old graphics (not about this video).
Whoops yeh I'll go do it now before I forget again...
@@grimreapers... :[
I can't get my r23er to fire outside of like 12km range. I enter BVR mode, lock up a target at like 50km, get closer waiting for launch authority and only get it when I enter 10km range. How are you launching them at 40M
How about the KS-172 missile :>
Don't have it :(
@@grimreapers You do have it, the name of the missile is the RVV-L and you tested it already a few months ago while reviewing the Su-35S mod. It's a very good long range missile.
wait till pl 21 comes XD
I know this is an old video but I'm gonna ask anyway how did you fire the missile outside of "LA", was that a cheat or is there a way to do that in the aircraft without any funny business?
All russian rocket is useless :D
@@cdgncgnyea
What about r27em?
Putin want to know your location
What are the system requirements to fly this simulator?
to high :)
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS (LOW graphics preset settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+ at 3+ GHz or AMD FX / Ryzen; RAM: 16 GB (32 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 / AMD Radeon RX VEGA 56 with 8GB VRAM or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.
RECOMMENDED SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS(HIGH graphics preset settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i5+ at 4+ GHz or AMD FX / Ryzen; RAM: 16 GB (32 GB for heavy missions); Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 / AMD Radeon RX VEGA 64 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.
RECOMMENDED VR SYSTEMS REQUIREMENTS (VR graphics settings): OS 64-bit Windows 8/10; DirectX11; CPU: Core i7-9700 / AMD Ryzen 3700X or better; RAM: 32 GB; Free hard disk space: 120 GB on Solid State Drive (SSD); Discrete video card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 2080 Ti / AMD Radeon RX 5700 or better; Joystick; requires internet activation.
All rights reserved. (c) 2021 Eagle Dynamics SA
Im 100% sure that r27er has better maximum range than aim 120c . 100% .
Not in DCS at least.
@@grimreapers i mean in real life
It does. Aim120C-5 is less than 60nm (it’s over 80nm in dcs) and the R27ER is over 80nm (only 48nm in this video). The difference is that the Mig and Flanker are $15 and the Viper and Hornet are $80.
@@92HazelMocha f-15C is also cheap and it carries AIM-120C-5 so I don't think that's the case