These trains are immense machines, flying up and down the WCML for twenty years. They STILL feel cool, they cover ground at an astonishing pace, and they have always felt like a proper long-distance train. Great to see them getting the update they deserve. Hopefully another twenty years of them to go.
Hopefully replaced and displaced to lesser duties (possibly exported) in the 5-10 year timeframe, great technology demonstrator, but a ‘mk2’ could polish out a number of design flaws which compromise it’s passenger comfort and bring about operational efficiencies. Chiefly the floor height to accommodate the tilt tech within the loading gauge, which goes on to limit window height and position. Greyrigg showed that the design is solid from a safety point of view but look at what could be possible using composite materials and learnings from aerospace in the past 30+ years since these were designed (less weight, bigger window openings). Of course none of this logic will win out, it never does in the U.K. so maybe we just be quiet and be grateful that they have (hopefully) fixed the constant poo smell…
Respite potency trained and straight away channel 21 channel video for trains Harper Castle the water boat I've bought play stations tractors pictures Circus richard willliams
It's great to see the 390s getting a refurbishment as I think they needed one. Even before the refurbishment they were good but I think they do need an upgrade as it has been a while
I rode on a 390 last year and they where fine in terms of comfort. However, the upgrades look smart and the trains actually look like avanti trains now not rebadged virgin trains. Like the idea of the smart seat system.
I’ve spent so many journeys on the Virgin trains from Euston to Coventry that when you went in the balloon toilet I actually had a smell memory 😆 I have a fondness for the red, but these look nice. Nowadays though the cost of a ticket means I usually end up on the slower London Northwestern ones instead 😢
Geoff has increased my train based YT viewing exponentially. Never realised how much of it I'd want to watch before I found his channel back in the before times
Not really much of an upgrade if I'm honest. Replacing a few seat covers, adding some new seats and plug... Still looks like it was designed in the 90's.
The new refurbished Alstom pendolino trains are going to look really nice inside when they are all fully completed. I really like these trains in general anyway because they are very smooth & very quite and also pretty fast as well. I believe these were the old trains that Virgin Trains used before Avanti West Coast took over the rail franchise a few years ago.
It's not how "nice inside" the refurbished trains look, it's how comfortable they are to travel in that matters. All the way from London to Glasgow and vice versa.
Looking alright although I think I preferred the previous shop design. Seems to be a much more minor refresh than was originally promised. More importantly though, it would be nice to visit somewhere spur of the moment and not have to plan months ahead to get a reasonably priced ticket. Otherwise, you’re looking at a ticket costing much more than many international flights.
@@TalesOfWar agreed and it's the same with buses. As someone who used to work in railways and now manages a bus/ coach depot, I can agree entirely with you. The cost per mile for rail or bus is eye watering compared to flying or shipping. Why? Rail is almost fully regulated commercially speaking- though open access rail operators are les regulated and so are cheaper. Despite what you might think, bus fares are distorted by government policy. Aviation and shipping on the other hand are, from a commercial point of view, entirely deregulated and UK offers some of the lowest £/mile anywhere in the World. NB no politics intended- both parties are as bad.
The new interior reminds me a little bit of the Transpenine Express Nova 1 & Nova 2 with the blue seating. I expect that the new extendable trays on the back of seats with a power socket will be handy for people who are looking for that feature. The seat availability screen at the end of each coach is a very useful idea.
Just last week did a Rugby - Carlisle return on Avanti, first time in ages. Trains were very tired and shabby, so great to see this refurb. I'd also forgotten how narrow, cramped and claustrophobic these Pendolino cabins are, but I can't imagine that will change.
The UK train gauge is so small that the cabins fill the maximum permitted dimensions. They are a bit lower than classic BR carriages because of the aircon fittings on the roof.
@@bfcmik Plus the cantrail is inset/narrower to allow for tilt, which enables the Pendolino fleet to cruise at 125PMH and therefore overcomes (some of) the limitations of the twisting legacy West Coast Mainline.
@@bfcmik That's why the current HS2 plans are a missed opportunity. Mainly because the trains they would be using will be "British" Loading Gauge Trains...when they should be using trains with a much higher loading gauge instead.
Just a simple ask, when designing seat layout one day a train operator might just ask for the seats to line up with the window. Which is even more difficult with 390s and their airline size windows. I'd prefer to look out and not at the interior for my journeys!
Same here. It's a real crime that seats end up with no window. (I've had the same problem on TGV and Eurostar too) The difference between being able to see out and not seeing out is huge.
@@highpath4776 it would be interesting to have a survey of how many people actually prefer that. I can't understand it, but having travelled to Durham several times (not Avanti in case anyone comments) I've been amazed to see so many people glued to their phones instead of looking at one of the most stunning views in Europe.
Only ever enjoyed the Pendalino when travelling first class on a weekend upgrade. In standard class they’re awful; too narrow and claustrophobic. Interesting film but looked like they were just polishing a turd tbh.
i used the Avanti 1st class product today from Crew to London Euston.....very good indeed 🙂 I'm amazed at how quick these 390'S feel....great units. Great video Geoff - as always.
Sadly I am old enough to remember when trains had proper sprung seat cushions that were really comfortable to sit in for hours. All long gone now, replaced with rather firm foam seats that are nowhere near as comfy. Mind you, I guess these are so much easier to maintain and keep clean.
I am too. Mark 1 compos on the WCML with a Roarer on the front (Class 81 - 85). Liked the Mark 2, and legendary Mark 3s. I think things went downhill with the Mark 4 and Mark 5. But all are better than a kart (EMU).
@@vicsams4431 though you both have the nostalga goggles for the old stock the newer stuff does have one advantage wheelchair users are treated like humans not luggage,
@@vicsams4431 It's a shame they didn't keep the comfort while (MASSIVELY) improving the safety of the newer coach classes. The 1's and 2's were death traps and the 3's while better still aren't amazing.
@@TalesOfWar The fixed centre armrest and table on the mk3 were terrible for taller people like myself to get in and out. The overall comfort, ride and noise levels were great though. British Rail made some good stuff. Its a pity they were starved of orders and unable to survive in tact after privatisation probably because of that. At least I can only see a bright future for rail as I don't think private motoring will be affordable for so many people in the future.
The door display panels use type D industrial/commercial cables and connectors known in the entertainment industry as DMX-512/STM-32 (3-pin) / XLR-3 standard with EIA-485 (RS-485) as its signalling control layer. Several of these display boards on trains and in stations either use modified entertainment technologies or derived technologies.
The refurbished SWR 450s have wireless charging in 1st class (I often sit in 1st class for the reading services, because they're declassified), but I've yet to come across one that actually works (including when I sat in 1st class on an Ascot-Aldershot service, assuming it was declassified, and was told off by the guard because it wasn't). Are the new seats actually comfortable? I don't have much pendo experience, but I know government regs meant the new AT300 seats have to be pretty solid.
What's the bicycle storage like? I've yet to travel on a UK train that didn't make bike bookings feel like a very grudging after thought. But I keep hoping!
As I suspected. The seating looks very uncomfortable and hard. Long live the ironing board seat! I also suspect many seats/tables will not line up with the windows. How many times do these issues get raised then completely ignored?
I think the seats are still in the same positions as before (except where the luggage racks are bigger). The large areas of bodywork between the windows would make it difficult to align every seat with one without leaving large spaces between each seat.
Agree with you the ironing boards are standard for lots of operators due to them being cheaper I like operators like GWR on first class in the HST castle sets or the class 801s have comfortable seats in standard class seats should be conformable and not ironing boards eg basic E leather or fabric with some decent padding so it isn't just when sitting back it feels like your sitting on wood.
I actually thought the government would force rail companies to put more comfortable seats in because of the complaints from the dreaded ironing board seats
I love the idea of less first class, especially as there will be a lot less business people paying for it so more chance of seats for leisure travelers.
I just heard that Amtrak here in America will replace all of it's coaches from 1938 with coaches from 1958. In addition all trains will now be powered by the latest steam engines that were just discovered discarded in a man's backyard.
Hello Geoff! I’m from Birmingham and I’m excited for the new hagley road extension for the #westmidlandsmetro. Is is possible to do a documentary about it please. Thank you 🙏
Well good luck if they think that seating sensor software is going to work. Prepare for blank screens on most services. The larger luggage rack is good. The white seat covers seems unwise. But of course the main issue is the vastly inflated prices compared to Virgin! Anyone paying for first class now has more money than sense. Premium economy or whatever they call it is quite enough.
I hope they stop the toilets from stinking so badly! That said I always enjoy travelling to London on the 390s from Lime Street, a nice quick and speedy journey with some lovely views as you cross the Mersey, the trains still feel futuristic, especially with the airline/rocketship window vibes and the tilts
The larger luggage stacks will make a big difference on the crowded holiday trips especially. Shame we don't get some form of USB-C to complement the USB-A. (I'd only hope for mobile phone power for USB-c, not "power my laptop 100W USB-c" to be clear!)
Absolutely love the Pendolinos. When they were introduced by Virgin Trains they were a massive step ahead, but time has now caught up with them. Love the refurb!
Having travelled the full length of the West Coast Main Line, and from London to Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester in Mark 3 carriages hauled by 110mph Class 87 electric locomotives - as often as not enjoying lunch in the First Class Restaurant Car whilst travelling on a Standard APEX ticket - I'm by no means convinced that the cramped and claustrophobic Class 390 Pendolinos really were "a massive step ahead" compared to what British Rail had to offer.
Travelling in Standard Class these were really uncomfortable. Originally smelt of disinfectant. I can’t see how Standard class has improved. From Birmingham to London Chiltern and London Northwestern are superior and cheaper!
Yeah, even if they take longer the 168 Clubmans as well as the mix of Class 68 loco + Mk3 coaches are some really lovely (and kinda underrated) trains to reach Birmingham.
Standard class seats are horrible. Like a mild form of torture. The angle that the upright meets the seat holds your spine in a position it was never meant to be in. Made a 40 minute journey unpleasant. Can't imagine sitting in one Glasgow to London. Why didn't they just reupholster the old seats like they did with first class!?
Huge improvement, though an odd choice of color for the headrest. In general I did not like the Pendolino in its original configuration; these look like you can actually sleep on the train and move around and stow your luggage. One other point -- they seem to be going for the HST longevity record on these trains. This is a serious renovation for 20 years in.
Good to see these trains getting a refresh! Absolutely welcome more luggage storage and sockets for every seat, but the light head rests and the new shop are probably going to show their flaws fairly soon once these trains go back into service...
This is great but all I really want in there is better air conditioning, if you've ever been stuck in the vestibule on a crowded friday night you'll know what I mean lol
Power points and charging at last! Now, any chance of their wifi actually working? It's by far the worst and most unreliable of any operator I use regularly (London Northwestern especially puts them to shame). Those seats do look harder, although the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. But cream headrests? They'll start to look awful pretty quickly.
Like the additional luggage space, but am I the only one that despairs when watching people pulling suitcases down the carriages even when they've just walked by on the way in a luggage rack thats completely empty, so wondering if it will actually get used.
Took Avanti west coast to London in March and got landed with a seat right between two windows so had no view at all from Glasgow to London. Got back on a week later and again got stuck with a seat with no window. It was awful so I hope they fix that flaw or at least make it known at time of booking that you dont get a window on some seats.
@@nightly4303 moved seats to ones that said they were unreserved then the train filled up and somebody got on with tickets for the seats we had moved to.
@@davidemmott6225 only options we could see were table seats, aircraft style seats and facing direction of travel or facing backwards. We booked aircraft and facing forward and got facing backwards with no window.
Standard Premium confuses the heck out of me. I didn't even know it was a "thing". I got on the train on to what I though was first class (big 1 on the outside, etc), sat in "first class" and after a while wondered where the menus and table service was. It was only when my ticket was checked they pointed to the head rest where it said Standard Premium that I realised I was in the wrong place. If you've been travelling for years on the WCML in First, Standard Premium is too subtle a difference. I'll pay more attention in future!
They wasn't doing bad for a 20 year old unit with no major refurbishment in that time, everyone complainins about them but there a cracking train nice and smooth and the tilt is still pretty sweet to feel
Dear Mr Marshall ,I have the Pleasure of informing you that you are in the Top 5 TH-camrs in this entire World For the "Looks ridiculous in Hi Vis Fluorescent Clothing Annual Award."
Yes the shop is brighter, but where's all the stock going if most of the chiller cabinets are out? Catering has always been a disappointment on Pendelinos. You'd think, now they are run by an Italian company, food would have been given more priority.
Some Pendolinos have already got USB sockets at Standard Class table seats. I hope improvements to the shop mean that there aren’t times when it can only take cash.
Why can't operators go back to proper buffet cars and fresh made to order food (miss toasted bacon sandwiches, cheese and ham toasties and cheese on toast) served by friendly stewards/stewardesses. Also go back to having baggage cars, half a carriage would do so less luggage/bikes cluttering carriages with more space for seats available. As bums on seats appears to be the mantra these days it would make sense.
Not before time. The Standard Class coaches are really quite tatty and not overly comfortable at the moment. I guess the age of affordable First Class is over though if they are reducing the number of First Class carriages.
Just popped back to review and I see what you mean - it really is so slick and so smooth that it was easy for it to slide beneath my awareness level. There's something Catch-22 about your very best work being the least noticed!
Seats look good, the rest only looks marginally less chunky and claustrophobic, if at all - though the less rounded headrests might actually increase the claustrophobic feel. But I will say Avanti or Alstom seem to have somehow solved the grim toilet disinfectant smell that used to greet you upon boarding a Pendolino, even in the un-refurbed stock. Awesome to see this refurb-in-action, though - thanks Geoff!
Good to see trains being modernized where needed, the internet is not a new idea,trains should keep up with this to be viable a transport option. Great to see alstom are using gantry cranes and digital planning,a sensible way to refurb a train, nice job ✌️❤️🇬🇧
2 ปีที่แล้ว +11
I would pronounce Alstom beginning the same way as "Alsace" (the french region) where the "Als" comes from. Extract from Wikipedia : "Alsthom (originally Als-Thom) was formed by a merger between Compagnie Française Thomson-Houston and the electric engineering division of Société Alsacienne de Constructions Mécaniques in 1928. Significant later acquisitions included the Constructions Electriques de France (1932), shipbuilder Chantiers de l'Atlantique (1976), and parts of ACEC (Belgium, late 1980s). A merger with parts of the General Electric Company (UK) formed GEC Alsthom in 1989. Throughout the 1990s, the company expanded its holdings in the rail sector, via the acquisition of German rolling stock manufacturer Linke-Hofmann-Busch and Italian rail signalling specialist Sasib Railways. In 1998, GEC Alsthom was floated on the Paris Stock Exchange and, later that year, it was rebranded Alstom. "
Yes, and noone English speaking could pronounce Alsthom right, hence the name change. If it was the other way, they would have - should have - changed it to Awlstom, hey!
Is the wireless charging only on the first class seats, or also the standard class table seats? Great view out of the window for the new luggage rack. I understand the standard class seats still don't all get the same luxury.
Most stuff these days is backwards compatible, and USB-C is also a pain in the backside to actually implement properly due to the wide variety of devices that use it and the huge variance in power levels it can carry
Used the Class 390 Pendolino many times traveling up to Runcorn to visit my Son , good to see an upgrade coming along, the trains were getting a bit shabby and unloved with the new operator so that good news, Hope they have taken onboard what the customer really wants, lets hope the fare increase justifies the effort we will wait and see. Thanks for the video very interesting. I will be on one this month several times......
I came across wireless charging on a Park & Ride bus in Oxford, Honestly watching your phone slide about because all they have done is put the Qi charger under the table surface is amazingly bad. Mind Buses are doing a lot more change in speed and direction over a journey. The previous flappy tables were useless for getting any kind of laptop onto it and angle the screen up to you with the angle/curve of the seat moulding in front of you. Slightly disappointed there is no serious allowance for bicycles (unless it wasn't mentioned), have they even investigated the demand for it. I'd expect if from any new or refurbished trainset. Been there done that seeing 4 bikes squished into a single class 153 which often got taken over as a luggage bay.
It's interesting how we still have First Class on trains and planes, but not Second Class or Third Class. I guess Standard Premium or Business Class just sounds a lot better.
They have been offering to upgrade to Standard Premium for just under the entire ticket price for economy. Course First class is still mostly empty while economy is sitting on the floor. Classed tickets need to go IMO.
Interesting video Geoff. Looks like a decent refresh of the interior. A lot less fridge space in the shop possibly means fewer products might be available? Compare to other long distance trains in the UK now (GWR and Cross Country I’m looking at you) where you can’t often even get a sandwich let alone anything hot, and you just yearn for the kind of food you see on The Dining Car on Twitter in Europe.
This is the train that put me off long distance West Coast rail travel. I used to love taking the train to London, when they had the superb Mk 3 coaches - comfy low-height seats, plenty of legroom and large windows letting in plenty of light. Cue these Pendolinos and all of that changed overnight. The combination of cramped interiors, tiny windows (if you're lucky enough to have a window!) and sides that slope in to increase the already claustrophobic atmosphere, led to my first major panic attack on a packed Liverpool - London service. I have never used these trains since and, judging by this refurbishment which has done nothing to lessen the claustrophobic feel, I won't be using them now.
Well, that’s the hard product… …but the Avanti ‘soft product’, pricing and reliability is appalling. They take your phone details to text you platform number… but can’t be bothered letting you know when they cancel your train 🤷♂️. Shame to see them cutting the premium seats back too - that’s been the one positive thing they’ve brought in.
Avanti West Coast haven’t added any new first class seats since taking over the West Coast, and they’re only reducing them on the 11 car sets to bring them in line with the 9 car sets
@@agent_605 you know… I don’t disagree with you. I always try and book them but availability on Avanti’s site is usually poor. Then I get on the train and the carriage is half empty. So I’m not convinced it’s lack of demand, more some issue with their demand driven pricing and web sales.
Great video! I was actually travelling on one of the old sets yesterday! Living in London but from Manchester I agree the sets are now looking quite tired and dated compared to other stock on the network. The refurbishment will give them a much needed new lease of life. The extra luggage space is also appreciated.
Amazing video as always Geoff, the refurbishment looks amazing, I must take a trip on this very soon when a few more have been completed and put back into service 👍
I can't really say that I am all that impressed with the new look shop. To be honest it's really just aesthetic and as Shania Twain might say, that don't impress me much.
Looking forward to a trip on one these refurbished sets which, despite them being approx 20 years old, compare very well with the 800 series sets for passenger environment. Pleased to see that first class seats have not be changed to leather - ghastly change that was made to some HSTs and Mk4 vehicles. However, the seat reservation/monitoring gadget looks really interesting. The ability to reserve a seat easily may be a bonus for passengers but there are far too many reserved seats not taken up. This means that if you don't have a reservation, you need to walk along the coach and work out which seats most probably have not been occupied; this rather negates the green/orange/red light display which should guide you straight to an available seat.
Whole thing looks anemic and lacking any atmosphere or comfort. Old ones have nice walnut-style tables, table lamps etc. Trains used to be places you could relax but now they're just cattle trucks
Sad to see the old *cough* Virgin Trains *cough* interiors go, as that was our train up to Holyhead for the ferry to Dublin. It was a nice experience compared to Amtrak.
Al Stom rather than All Stom. I worked for them at Eastleigh about 20 years ago and this was the way it was always pronounced. Is it purely internal or will there be any external works?
This should be a good upgrade. The days are numbered when in the evening everyone is running at Euston to be first on the train to grab a table seat so they can charge their phones up.
![เปิดบ้าน พี่ตูน Bodyslam หลังใหม่คนแรก ที่ภูเก็ต l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/flFwcmyDQSk/mqdefault.jpg)
These trains are immense machines, flying up and down the WCML for twenty years. They STILL feel cool, they cover ground at an astonishing pace, and they have always felt like a proper long-distance train. Great to see them getting the update they deserve. Hopefully another twenty years of them to go.
Hopefully replaced and displaced to lesser duties (possibly exported) in the 5-10 year timeframe, great technology demonstrator, but a ‘mk2’ could polish out a number of design flaws which compromise it’s passenger comfort and bring about operational efficiencies. Chiefly the floor height to accommodate the tilt tech within the loading gauge, which goes on to limit window height and position. Greyrigg showed that the design is solid from a safety point of view but look at what could be possible using composite materials and learnings from aerospace in the past 30+ years since these were designed (less weight, bigger window openings). Of course none of this logic will win out, it never does in the U.K. so maybe we just be quiet and be grateful that they have (hopefully) fixed the constant poo smell…
Respite potency trained and straight away channel 21 channel video for trains Harper Castle the water boat I've bought play stations tractors pictures Circus richard willliams
And they're no longer Virgins...!!
unfortunately standard class doesn't feel long distance. terrible legroom, cramped, tiny table, it's not nice to take it to glasgow.
Agree better than Azure on my line LNER.
It's great to see the 390s getting a refurbishment as I think they needed one. Even before the refurbishment they were good but I think they do need an upgrade as it has been a while
I rode on a 390 last year and they where fine in terms of comfort. However, the upgrades look smart and the trains actually look like avanti trains now not rebadged virgin trains. Like the idea of the smart seat system.
I wish a lot of other companies and branches of officialdom would listen to their public as attentively as they have. Three cheers!
Looks like fairly unremarkable refit tbh
I’ve spent so many journeys on the Virgin trains from Euston to Coventry that when you went in the balloon toilet I actually had a smell memory 😆 I have a fondness for the red, but these look nice. Nowadays though the cost of a ticket means I usually end up on the slower London Northwestern ones instead 😢
Geoff has increased my train based YT viewing exponentially. Never realised how much of it I'd want to watch before I found his channel back in the before times
Not really much of an upgrade if I'm honest. Replacing a few seat covers, adding some new seats and plug... Still looks like it was designed in the 90's.
White head rests? Really?
Big mistake!
The new refurbished Alstom pendolino trains are going to look really nice inside when they are all fully completed.
I really like these trains in general anyway because they are very smooth & very quite and also pretty fast as well.
I believe these were the old trains that Virgin Trains used before Avanti West Coast took over the rail franchise a few years ago.
It's not how "nice inside" the refurbished trains look, it's how comfortable they are to travel in that matters. All the way from London to Glasgow and vice versa.
@@KempSimon Sorry, obviously i forgot to mention that they need to be comfortable as well.
My mistake.
Nice to see these things get a refurb. They weren't all that bad before, just a little tired so it's very much welcome.
Looking alright although I think I preferred the previous shop design. Seems to be a much more minor refresh than was originally promised. More importantly though, it would be nice to visit somewhere spur of the moment and not have to plan months ahead to get a reasonably priced ticket. Otherwise, you’re looking at a ticket costing much more than many international flights.
Spur of the moment travel via any type of transport is going to be expensive
@@DOSeater It's kind of an extreme on these things though. We have among the highest rail prices in Europe and one of the worst services.
@@TalesOfWar agreed and it's the same with buses. As someone who used to work in railways and now manages a bus/ coach depot, I can agree entirely with you.
The cost per mile for rail or bus is eye watering compared to flying or shipping.
Why? Rail is almost fully regulated commercially speaking- though open access rail operators are les regulated and so are cheaper. Despite what you might think, bus fares are distorted by government policy.
Aviation and shipping on the other hand are, from a commercial point of view, entirely deregulated and UK offers some of the lowest £/mile anywhere in the World.
NB no politics intended- both parties are as bad.
The new interior reminds me a little bit of the Transpenine Express Nova 1 & Nova 2 with the blue seating.
I expect that the new extendable trays on the back of seats with a power socket will be handy for people who are looking for that feature.
The seat availability screen at the end of each coach is a very useful idea.
the seat reservations over the seats on the transpenine 802s is good as well, red reserved, green not, much quicker to see where you can / can't sit
I think the new seat padding and headrests sturdiness are now standardised by DfT across the network
Just last week did a Rugby - Carlisle return on Avanti, first time in ages. Trains were very tired and shabby, so great to see this refurb. I'd also forgotten how narrow, cramped and claustrophobic these Pendolino cabins are, but I can't imagine that will change.
full of passengers and standing in the aisles id say prob not much different
The UK train gauge is so small that the cabins fill the maximum permitted dimensions. They are a bit lower than classic BR carriages because of the aircon fittings on the roof.
@@bfcmik Plus the cantrail is inset/narrower to allow for tilt, which enables the Pendolino fleet to cruise at 125PMH and therefore overcomes (some of) the limitations of the twisting legacy West Coast Mainline.
Only HS2 can change the dimensions issue!
@@bfcmik That's why the current HS2 plans are a missed opportunity. Mainly because the trains they would be using will be "British" Loading Gauge Trains...when they should be using trains with a much higher loading gauge instead.
Just a simple ask, when designing seat layout one day a train operator might just ask for the seats to line up with the window. Which is even more difficult with 390s and their airline size windows. I'd prefer to look out and not at the interior for my journeys!
Same here. It's a real crime that seats end up with no window. (I've had the same problem on TGV and Eurostar too) The difference between being able to see out and not seeing out is huge.
Some of us dont like windows , I just need a snooze seat
@@highpath4776 it would be interesting to have a survey of how many people actually prefer that. I can't understand it, but having travelled to Durham several times (not Avanti in case anyone comments) I've been amazed to see so many people glued to their phones instead of looking at one of the most stunning views in Europe.
Would you rather have seats that line up to windows or as many seats as possible?
@@extrude22 personally I'd go for seats that line up with windows- given my leg length I'd appreciate the additional legroom
Only ever enjoyed the Pendalino when travelling first class on a weekend upgrade. In standard class they’re awful; too narrow and claustrophobic. Interesting film but looked like they were just polishing a turd tbh.
The turd is the track, which is why HS2 is so important.
Hey Geoff, I live in Runcorn and its nice to see it getting some screen time once in a while.
Even if it's just the bridge 😁
i used the Avanti 1st class product today from Crew to London Euston.....very good indeed 🙂
I'm amazed at how quick these 390'S feel....great units.
Great video Geoff - as always.
Them white headrests look ridiculous. Especially in first class. I mean even if I liked white how long before it looks yellow?! 😝
5:16 Shame. I was looking forward to booking the Pendolin-opentopper.
Sadly I am old enough to remember when trains had proper sprung seat cushions that were really comfortable to sit in for hours. All long gone now, replaced with rather firm foam seats that are nowhere near as comfy. Mind you, I guess these are so much easier to maintain and keep clean.
I am too. Mark 1 compos on the WCML with a Roarer on the front (Class 81 - 85). Liked the Mark 2, and legendary Mark 3s. I think things went downhill with the Mark 4 and Mark 5. But all are better than a kart (EMU).
@@vicsams4431 though you both have the nostalga goggles for the old stock the newer stuff does have one advantage wheelchair users are treated like humans not luggage,
@@vicsams4431 It's a shame they didn't keep the comfort while (MASSIVELY) improving the safety of the newer coach classes. The 1's and 2's were death traps and the 3's while better still aren't amazing.
@@TalesOfWar The fixed centre armrest and table on the mk3 were terrible for taller people like myself to get in and out. The overall comfort, ride and noise levels were great though. British Rail made some good stuff. Its a pity they were starved of orders and unable to survive in tact after privatisation probably because of that. At least I can only see a bright future for rail as I don't think private motoring will be affordable for so many people in the future.
@@TalesOfWar Death traps? How many deaths? How many passenger miles?
The door display panels use type D industrial/commercial cables and connectors known in the entertainment industry as DMX-512/STM-32 (3-pin) / XLR-3 standard with EIA-485 (RS-485) as its signalling control layer. Several of these display boards on trains and in stations either use modified entertainment technologies or derived technologies.
It's interesting to see the 'shop' is going back to a more traditional design, which worked well for decades.
“Each seat finally has its own power point”
Me trying to do a complete flop of a pun: “My computer has 20”
The refurbished SWR 450s have wireless charging in 1st class (I often sit in 1st class for the reading services, because they're declassified), but I've yet to come across one that actually works (including when I sat in 1st class on an Ascot-Aldershot service, assuming it was declassified, and was told off by the guard because it wasn't).
Are the new seats actually comfortable? I don't have much pendo experience, but I know government regs meant the new AT300 seats have to be pretty solid.
What's the bicycle storage like?
I've yet to travel on a UK train that didn't make bike bookings feel like a very grudging after thought.
But I keep hoping!
@@geofftech2 - That doesn't answer Jethro's question, which concerned storage space for pedal cycles in the refurbished Class 390 Pendolino trains.
RIP Virgin Trains, took them once
As I suspected. The seating looks very uncomfortable and hard. Long live the ironing board seat! I also suspect many seats/tables will not line up with the windows. How many times do these issues get raised then completely ignored?
I think the seats are still in the same positions as before (except where the luggage racks are bigger). The large areas of bodywork between the windows would make it difficult to align every seat with one without leaving large spaces between each seat.
Agree with you the ironing boards are standard for lots of operators due to them being cheaper I like operators like GWR on first class in the HST castle sets or the class 801s have comfortable seats in standard class seats should be conformable and not ironing boards eg basic E leather or fabric with some decent padding so it isn't just when sitting back it feels like your sitting on wood.
They’re the same seats at Lumo, which are much better than those on the IET.
@@AgentSquash Sitting on a spike is more comfy than an IET though so this is a low bar!
I actually thought the government would force rail companies to put more comfortable seats in because of the complaints from the dreaded ironing board seats
I love the idea of less first class, especially as there will be a lot less business people paying for it so more chance of seats for leisure travelers.
Even as a leisure traveller I always when available travel first class, bought in advance (3 mths) online can be as cheap as standard.
Probably fewer people buying first class seats due to the reduced level of service and menu quality provided by Avanti compared to Virgin.
I have always believed the provision of first class seats on any InterCity train is greater than necessary. This is a welcome development.
I just heard that Amtrak here in America will replace all of it's coaches from 1938 with coaches from 1958. In addition all trains will now be powered by the latest steam engines that were just discovered discarded in a man's backyard.
Comfy headrests are one thing, but when are they going to start competing with London Northwestern on ticket prices?
Hello Geoff!
I’m from Birmingham and I’m excited for the new hagley road extension for the #westmidlandsmetro. Is is possible to do a documentary about it please. Thank you 🙏
Ps: #purpletrain
Well good luck if they think that seating sensor software is going to work. Prepare for blank screens on most services. The larger luggage rack is good. The white seat covers seems unwise. But of course the main issue is the vastly inflated prices compared to Virgin! Anyone paying for first class now has more money than sense. Premium economy or whatever they call it is quite enough.
I hope they stop the toilets from stinking so badly! That said I always enjoy travelling to London on the 390s from Lime Street, a nice quick and speedy journey with some lovely views as you cross the Mersey, the trains still feel futuristic, especially with the airline/rocketship window vibes and the tilts
cross country are in drastic need of a refurb
refurb as much as they like , we have still got backwards in terms of comfort from the Mk3s .
Agree 100%. Thanks for reading my mind.
the biggest question I would have for Avanti is, Will the train be running? cancellations are far too common
Anybody remember when British companies built British trains?
The larger luggage stacks will make a big difference on the crowded holiday trips especially. Shame we don't get some form of USB-C to complement the USB-A. (I'd only hope for mobile phone power for USB-c, not "power my laptop 100W USB-c" to be clear!)
Absolutely love the Pendolinos. When they were introduced by Virgin Trains they were a massive step ahead, but time has now caught up with them. Love the refurb!
Having travelled the full length of the West Coast Main Line, and from London to Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester in Mark 3 carriages hauled by 110mph Class 87 electric locomotives - as often as not enjoying lunch in the First Class Restaurant Car whilst travelling on a Standard APEX ticket - I'm by no means convinced that the cramped and claustrophobic Class 390 Pendolinos really were "a massive step ahead" compared to what British Rail had to offer.
Slidey windows, slammy doors, we now get to add flappy tables to the mix!
Ah... I love these units
The new headrest looks as if it will stick even further into the shoulderblades of anyone who's a bit longer in the body.
They looked as fine as they were tbh those new seats look uncomfortable like Thameslink trains
They’re the same seats used on Lumo, which have had mostly positive reviews
Travelling in Standard Class these were really uncomfortable. Originally smelt of disinfectant. I can’t see how Standard class has improved. From Birmingham to London Chiltern and London Northwestern are superior and cheaper!
Yeah, even if they take longer the 168 Clubmans as well as the mix of Class 68 loco + Mk3 coaches are some really lovely (and kinda underrated) trains to reach Birmingham.
Standard class seats are horrible. Like a mild form of torture. The angle that the upright meets the seat holds your spine in a position it was never meant to be in. Made a 40 minute journey unpleasant. Can't imagine sitting in one Glasgow to London. Why didn't they just reupholster the old seats like they did with first class!?
Geoff, have you seen the new chiltern HybridFlex class 168s? They are the first Diesel-Battery Trains
Huge improvement, though an odd choice of color for the headrest. In general I did not like the Pendolino in its original configuration; these look like you can actually sleep on the train and move around and stow your luggage. One other point -- they seem to be going for the HST longevity record on these trains. This is a serious renovation for 20 years in.
depends if the seats are like the concrete Hitachi ones
Stupid idea removing the fridges from the shop in coach C,as the temperatures we experienced in London last week ,
Good to see these trains getting a refresh! Absolutely welcome more luggage storage and sockets for every seat, but the light head rests and the new shop are probably going to show their flaws fairly soon once these trains go back into service...
Pendolinos are the best :D
This is great but all I really want in there is better air conditioning, if you've ever been stuck in the vestibule on a crowded friday night you'll know what I mean lol
Power points and charging at last! Now, any chance of their wifi actually working? It's by far the worst and most unreliable of any operator I use regularly (London Northwestern especially puts them to shame).
Those seats do look harder, although the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. But cream headrests? They'll start to look awful pretty quickly.
The WiFi has apparently been upgraded, you’ll be glad to hear!
Prefer the old shop but love the warm lighting
Like the additional luggage space, but am I the only one that despairs when watching people pulling suitcases down the carriages even when they've just walked by on the way in a luggage rack thats completely empty, so wondering if it will actually get used.
Took Avanti west coast to London in March and got landed with a seat right between two windows so had no view at all from Glasgow to London. Got back on a week later and again got stuck with a seat with no window. It was awful so I hope they fix that flaw or at least make it known at time of booking that you dont get a window on some seats.
Couldn’t you just move seats?
I think the seat booking page on the website explains which seats have no/restricted view. But the carriage layout plans don't as far as I can see.
@@nightly4303 moved seats to ones that said they were unreserved then the train filled up and somebody got on with tickets for the seats we had moved to.
@@davidemmott6225 only options we could see were table seats, aircraft style seats and facing direction of travel or facing backwards. We booked aircraft and facing forward and got facing backwards with no window.
Standard Premium confuses the heck out of me. I didn't even know it was a "thing". I got on the train on to what I though was first class (big 1 on the outside, etc), sat in "first class" and after a while wondered where the menus and table service was. It was only when my ticket was checked they pointed to the head rest where it said Standard Premium that I realised I was in the wrong place. If you've been travelling for years on the WCML in First, Standard Premium is too subtle a difference. I'll pay more attention in future!
They wasn't doing bad for a 20 year old unit with no major refurbishment in that time, everyone complainins about them but there a cracking train nice and smooth and the tilt is still pretty sweet to feel
Dear Mr Marshall ,I have the Pleasure of informing you that you are in the Top 5 TH-camrs in this entire World For the
"Looks ridiculous in Hi Vis Fluorescent Clothing Annual Award."
Yes the shop is brighter, but where's all the stock going if most of the chiller cabinets are out? Catering has always been a disappointment on Pendelinos. You'd think, now they are run by an Italian company, food would have been given more priority.
Some Pendolinos have already got USB sockets at Standard Class table seats. I hope improvements to the shop mean that there aren’t times when it can only take cash.
Why can't operators go back to proper buffet cars and fresh made to order food (miss toasted bacon sandwiches, cheese and ham toasties and cheese on toast) served by friendly stewards/stewardesses. Also go back to having baggage cars, half a carriage would do so less luggage/bikes cluttering carriages with more space for seats available. As bums on seats appears to be the mantra these days it would make sense.
Not before time. The Standard Class coaches are really quite tatty and not overly comfortable at the moment. I guess the age of affordable First Class is over though if they are reducing the number of First Class carriages.
Hopefully those new seats aren’t hard as anything!
I always really enjoy your editing, Geoff! Literally "ooooh!"ed at your 10:00 - 10:01 entrance. Top stuff as always!
ah thank you! I like slick edits and put a lot of work into them - it makes me happy when people notice !!
Just popped back to review and I see what you mean - it really is so slick and so smooth that it was easy for it to slide beneath my awareness level. There's something Catch-22 about your very best work being the least noticed!
Seats look good, the rest only looks marginally less chunky and claustrophobic, if at all - though the less rounded headrests might actually increase the claustrophobic feel. But I will say Avanti or Alstom seem to have somehow solved the grim toilet disinfectant smell that used to greet you upon boarding a Pendolino, even in the un-refurbed stock. Awesome to see this refurb-in-action, though - thanks Geoff!
*Pendolinos are being refurbished*
Me: Hooray!
*Realises Pendolinos are now owned by First Group*
Me: Oh no!
Good to see trains being modernized where needed, the internet is not a new idea,trains should keep up with this to be viable a transport option. Great to see alstom are using gantry cranes and digital planning,a sensible way to refurb a train, nice job ✌️❤️🇬🇧
I would pronounce Alstom beginning the same way as "Alsace" (the french region) where the "Als" comes from.
Extract from Wikipedia :
"Alsthom (originally Als-Thom) was formed by a merger between Compagnie Française Thomson-Houston and the electric engineering division of Société Alsacienne de Constructions Mécaniques in 1928. Significant later acquisitions included the Constructions Electriques de France (1932), shipbuilder Chantiers de l'Atlantique (1976), and parts of ACEC (Belgium, late 1980s).
A merger with parts of the General Electric Company (UK) formed GEC Alsthom in 1989. Throughout the 1990s, the company expanded its holdings in the rail sector, via the acquisition of German rolling stock manufacturer Linke-Hofmann-Busch and Italian rail signalling specialist Sasib Railways. In 1998, GEC Alsthom was floated on the Paris Stock Exchange and, later that year, it was rebranded Alstom. "
Yes, and noone English speaking could pronounce Alsthom right, hence the name change. If it was the other way, they would have - should have - changed it to Awlstom, hey!
Huh. So the German pronunciation _is_ closest, then
I'm on this train next week. What's the chances its the one already refurbed :D
I'll miss the old red and blue interiors but the brighter coaches are definitely a welcome improvement.
I like the new refurbished Avanti trains, they look very smart! Also, keep up the good work Geoff, your videos are very good 👍🏻 😊.
Angel Trains are Alstom's customer on this project. Avanti are just the current contract operator.
Is the wireless charging only on the first class seats, or also the standard class table seats?
Great view out of the window for the new luggage rack. I understand the standard class seats still don't all get the same luxury.
Wireless charging is also available in standard
Makes me weep for the appalling finish of the GWR class 800s, no comfort, no shop/buffet and no care.
Feels as if I’m invading the train’s privacy seeing it with all the seats etc. out.
how do they keep the things like the wireless charging and usb technology up-to-date? things like quick charge 4.0 or USB C becoming more common?
Most stuff these days is backwards compatible, and USB-C is also a pain in the backside to actually implement properly due to the wide variety of devices that use it and the huge variance in power levels it can carry
Could you please do a southeastern class 465 journey?
Looks a decent refurbishment, but the flaws of the original design (thick pillars, narrow bodywork due to the tilting) can't be fixed
Used the Class 390 Pendolino many times traveling up to Runcorn to visit my Son , good to see an upgrade coming along, the trains were getting a bit shabby and unloved with the new operator so that good news, Hope they have taken onboard what the customer really wants, lets hope the fare increase justifies the effort we will wait and see. Thanks for the video very interesting. I will be on one this month several times......
I came across wireless charging on a Park & Ride bus in Oxford, Honestly watching your phone slide about because all they have done is put the Qi charger under the table surface is amazingly bad. Mind Buses are doing a lot more change in speed and direction over a journey.
The previous flappy tables were useless for getting any kind of laptop onto it and angle the screen up to you with the angle/curve of the seat moulding in front of you.
Slightly disappointed there is no serious allowance for bicycles (unless it wasn't mentioned), have they even investigated the demand for it. I'd expect if from any new or refurbished trainset. Been there done that seeing 4 bikes squished into a single class 153 which often got taken over as a luggage bay.
Did Geoff delete some of his older videos? I was looking for the one with the I think refurbished Jubilee line trains.
It's interesting how we still have First Class on trains and planes, but not Second Class or Third Class. I guess Standard Premium or Business Class just sounds a lot better.
standard premium is a standard + supllement that give you first class seat and ambience but no food service -- i use it quiite regulary
They have been offering to upgrade to Standard Premium for just under the entire ticket price for economy. Course First class is still mostly empty while economy is sitting on the floor. Classed tickets need to go IMO.
Interesting video Geoff. Looks like a decent refresh of the interior. A lot less fridge space in the shop possibly means fewer products might be available? Compare to other long distance trains in the UK now (GWR and Cross Country I’m looking at you) where you can’t often even get a sandwich let alone anything hot, and you just yearn for the kind of food you see on The Dining Car on Twitter in Europe.
Shame the service is so poor and so many are cancelled.
This is the train that put me off long distance West Coast rail travel. I used to love taking the train to London, when they had the superb Mk 3 coaches - comfy low-height seats, plenty of legroom and large windows letting in plenty of light. Cue these Pendolinos and all of that changed overnight. The combination of cramped interiors, tiny windows (if you're lucky enough to have a window!) and sides that slope in to increase the already claustrophobic atmosphere, led to my first major panic attack on a packed Liverpool - London service. I have never used these trains since and, judging by this refurbishment which has done nothing to lessen the claustrophobic feel, I won't be using them now.
The windows are perfectly fine. Try being on an unrefurbished 350 or 323 if you're complaining about PENDOLINO seats.
Well, that’s the hard product…
…but the Avanti ‘soft product’, pricing and reliability is appalling. They take your phone details to text you platform number… but can’t be bothered letting you know when they cancel your train 🤷♂️.
Shame to see them cutting the premium seats back too - that’s been the one positive thing they’ve brought in.
Avanti West Coast haven’t added any new first class seats since taking over the West Coast, and they’re only reducing them on the 11 car sets to bring them in line with the 9 car sets
Bring back the beard…
@@agent_605 in effect reducing one car of Premium seats then, as I said.
@@albedo0point39 seats that were, in practice, pretty much completely unused
@@agent_605 you know… I don’t disagree with you. I always try and book them but availability on Avanti’s site is usually poor. Then I get on the train and the carriage is half empty. So I’m not convinced it’s lack of demand, more some issue with their demand driven pricing and web sales.
Great video! I was actually travelling on one of the old sets yesterday! Living in London but from Manchester I agree the sets are now looking quite tired and dated compared to other stock on the network. The refurbishment will give them a much needed new lease of life. The extra luggage space is also appreciated.
🦘🐨🍩☕😎😇thanks geoff.
i love ur vids , geoff. also is it me or do u remind me of daniel craig
Amazing video as always Geoff, the refurbishment looks amazing, I must take a trip on this very soon when a few more have been completed and put back into service 👍
The shop is gonna be a let down. Too small, far fewer selection on offer. Why are they going backward?
It is, was on one last week, choice is a couple of sandwiches and a few chocolate bars.
The seats look very uncomfortable unlike the seats that they have now. What is it with this crap ironing board style seat?
This isn’t ironing board seating. They’re perfectly comfortable seats, and also allow for more legroom compared with the older seats
Any chance the toilets will actually work after the first hour or so of travel with this refurb?
I can't really say that I am all that impressed with the new look shop.
To be honest it's really just aesthetic and as Shania Twain might say, that don't impress me much.
You know when the wide angle lens goes on, it’s about to get real.
At 8:40 that looks like going back to a BR Mk 1 buffet car, just different colours, a case of don't re-invent the wheel.
The new interior on the Pendolino's looks nice. :)
Looking forward to a trip on one these refurbished sets which, despite them being approx 20 years old, compare very well with the 800 series sets for passenger environment. Pleased to see that first class seats have not be changed to leather - ghastly change that was made to some HSTs and Mk4 vehicles. However, the seat reservation/monitoring gadget looks really interesting. The ability to reserve a seat easily may be a bonus for passengers but there are far too many reserved seats not taken up. This means that if you don't have a reservation, you need to walk along the coach and work out which seats most probably have not been occupied; this rather negates the green/orange/red light display which should guide you straight to an available seat.
Whole thing looks anemic and lacking any atmosphere or comfort. Old ones have nice walnut-style tables, table lamps etc. Trains used to be places you could relax but now they're just cattle trucks
Sad to see the old *cough* Virgin Trains *cough* interiors go, as that was our train up to Holyhead for the ferry to Dublin. It was a nice experience compared to Amtrak.
Al Stom rather than All Stom. I worked for them at Eastleigh about 20 years ago and this was the way it was always pronounced.
Is it purely internal or will there be any external works?
This should be a good upgrade. The days are numbered when in the evening everyone is running at Euston to be first on the train to grab a table seat so they can charge their phones up.
"Technical Difficulty." Anyone else had Tom Scott and the Technical Difficulties show flashbacks?