I met Larry Shinoda 1983 at the Dearborn Sac convention. Spent about a half-hour talking to him and got his autograph he was a great man. I now own a 70 Boss 302 it's a great car.
Lorenzo Maximo hey may I ask you a question do all 1970 boss 429 have the air hood shaker and can it be one without the shaker I really don’t like the hood
John Mcclane no the Boss 429 was never offered with a shaker scoop. It was only produced with the large open mouthed scoop, with an internal flap utilized to ram more cool air into the carb.
My dad spent the $65 for the shaker in 70 for my brother returning from military service. He never made it back. I got it for college graduation in 80. My 70 blue mustang is my pride and joy. 302 Boss. 18,000 miles. If you use 104 avgas leaded, it will FLY.
Boss 302s are good but as far as ford small blocks in 1969 I'd take a 351w4v over it for all around performance. Same base horsepower, much more torque, way cheaper and way more performance parts available at the time.
Well Shinoda was a legend and did tons at GM. He was no fly by night, scene stealing wanna be. I am paying homage to the man, not saying he gets all the credit.
@@mylanmiller9656 Knudsen was fired by Ford in '69. Shinoda left at the same time. Shinoda had designed the '71-'73 Mustang, on paper, but had no hand it's development Some of Shinoda's designs had flaws, mostly poor visibility issues for the driver.
@@mainiac4pats Some of Shinoda's designs had flaws such as poor visibility issues for the driver. Example, the '63 Corvette "split-window" Stingray. '71-'73 Mustang fastbacks also.
I always knew Shinoda created the Boss 302. But to learn of the 63 Vette is amazing! What a visionary in car design! These are the cars I grew up idolizing in my youth! Amazing talent!!!!
Thanks Fitzee! I’ve been slowly working my technique - practicing on floorboard patches and replacement - and am now just about ready for body panel work. All thanks to You!
My favorite non Shelby Mustang ever made. Really like the 71 Boss 351 too even though many people don't like that body style. The Boss 351 was actually quicker than a 429CJ Mustang in the 1/4 mile
Boss 351 Mustang quicker than a 429scj Mustang? Only in your dreams, cupcake. Boss 351=14.9 in 1/4 mile. 429SCJ Mach I Mustang=13.8 in 1/4 mile. Do the math !
@@lewisshepard9239 Obviously, your ability to do research is quite limited. 429 SCJ Mustang has 45 hp more than the Boss 351 Mustang and 80 more pounds of torque. 429 SCJ Mustang is 1.1 second quicker in the 1/4 mile. That's with both cars having the 3:91 rear gears ratio. If the 429 SCJ Mustang has the drag-pack package, rear gears would be Detroit Locker 4:11 ratio.
@@sergeantmasson3669 in place of trying to calculate your figures,have you ever just looked up actual 1/4 et from back in the day. The Boss 351 was a 13.6 or 13.8. I’d have to look it up to be sure. But there wasn’t about a tenth difference between em.
@@lewisshepard9239 WTH stats are you looking at? All the ones I looked at, the 429 SCJ Mustang is quicker/faster than a Boss 351 Mustang. I own a '70 Torino with the 429 SCJ engine and drag-pack option. It has done high 12's on a NHRA 1/4 track using radial tires and closed exhaust. Ford rated the 429SCJ as having 375 hp but in reality, it's 450 hp stock which is 120 hp more than the Boss 351 engine.
Owned a 69 Boss which I sold during the "gas crisis" in the early 70s. Many years later bought 1 a 70 Boss 302. Loved those cars. Sold it several years ago but never rued buying them, only selling them!
I owned a 70 model Boss 302 from '76 till 81. One of my biggest mistakes in life was selling that car. It was not extremely fast and by today's standard, didn't handle that great. But, it was a blast to drive...made good sounds when the headers were open....and was an eye catcher of a car.
My best friend when I was 16 was a year older than me, and dropped by my house one day in a yellow 1970 Boss 302. Didn't have the rear spoiler or window shade, but had the shaker hood scoop. I'd never seen a car so beautiful, and had never gone so fast in a car. He took the rev limiter off after a year, and blew the 302 up after three years of owning it..
Nice . I had a very rare Mustang Mach 1 69 .5 SCJ 428 GT . The Boss 302 was very underrated. HP or displacement had little to do with winning a race . The Boss was the car I should've had. 😎
The '69 Boss has a Cross drilled crank. This was dropped in '70 as it was deemed unnecessary. On the '70 model, the scoops outboard of the headlights were designed as a cold air induction system for the engine. The SCCA disallowed this, in racing, because this was not in the production version. At 780 CFM, the stock Holley carburetor was way too big for an engine this size. While the Z/28 could be had with true 4 wheel disc brakes from the factory, Ford offered a (super expensive) rear wheel disc option. This was a "competition only" setup as their was no emergency brake provision. On tight racing tracks the superior braking of the Z/28 gave Chevy the edge. On long tracks, the free breathing Cleveland heads gave the Boss the edge. In '69 Ford lost the SCCA Trans-Am championship to the Z/28s. A study in why this happened reveals the Boss was the faster car, but tire failure and slow pit stops cost Ford the championship. In '70 Ford corrected these shortcomings and clinched the championship. The Boss was fairly amazing, with it's triple valve springs, forged steel crank, aluminum intake, etc. So was the Chevy Z/28. In my opinion (which is worth about what you're paying,...nothing) a fully optioned STOCK Z/28 would beat a Boss. However, in modified form the Boss was superior. Their is a very famous (and well celebrated) story of a completely stock Boss 302 entering an amateur SCCA race, competing against fully modified race cars. The stock Boss placed second overall in this race. There is a LOT more I could say, like the front fenders on a Boss 302 were slightly widened to encompass the wide 60 series tires),...but this old man has rambled enough.
I remember being 13, our next door neighbor bought 2, his was red hers deep green, not Boss 302, but 302 none the less, got to see them every day. Was a treat in late 68.
Met Larry Shinoda at Knott's Berry Farm Fabulous Ford's in the 90s. He had a booth selling t-shirts to pay for his medical bills. What a shame he had to do that! He passed about a year or so later. This shirt was mustard w/black boss stripes.
I had a 1970 Mustang with the standard 302 engine. I put in 271hp cam, 700cfm double pumper Holley, Edlebrock highrise intake manifold, appliance headers, dual point distributor with traction bars. The car ran at the strip a 14.53 @103mph with a c4 auto trans with a T bar shifter. I loved that car and still love it today.
@@sergeantmasson3669 Never said or implied he did. But. He did create the Boss 302. And the Boss 351 uses its name and legacy. He was merely critical of its design. They are called the Clydesdale Mustangs for a reason. I owned a 72 Sportsroof 351 4v car. I tend to agree with Larry.
@@DanielCollins85 It didn't matter because he had no part in designing the '71-'73 Mustangs and was already gone before the new design was done. Gail Halderman was the designer.
@@sergeantmasson3669 Shinoda didnt design the 69 Mustang, he designed the Boss 302. It was his special project from Knudsen. Because of this he always said when asked about the project "Im working on the bosses car.".
It's worth noting it didn't just have the 351C heads, it had the 351C 4V heads, which had such large ports it hurt low end torque on the 351 itself, so imagine when it did to the 302. Had they built the 302 to withstand its ability to free rev to 8,000 rpm as it could do with those heads, it might be a different story, but they didn't. The 4V was overkill for such a small street engine IMO and the 2V version of the head would have served better. The large ports and overall design of the 351C 4V were so well built for high revving hp that NASCAR Fords still use a derivative design of it to this day. It was also the sole reason for the regulators to slap those restrictor plates on the intake manifolds at one time, because using the design of this engine, Bill Elliott was literally (I mean literally) running laps around the Chevy engine powered racecars.
I saw a video once where someone tested a Ford 351 by bolting on 4v heads and then 2v heads. And they literally made the same power. It's good dynamics in the head that produces performance, not just crude size.
The Ford heads that would have been best for the 302 BOSS would have been those Cleveland style heads produced in Ford's Australian plant that used the port and valve sizes of the 2 barrel Cleveland heads with the quenched combustion chambers of the '70-'71 351-4V heads. Sadly, those heads didn't come out until after the demise of the BOSS 302.
You wouldn't have a torque problem if you went to an long tube equal length headers. I had the same problem with a 92 Olds Achieva SCX W41 in a 8k ft environment. I solved it with a custom headers. I would recommend you get your hands on a copy of Headers by Ed catalog. You can have all of your pwr down low if done right.
Although I'm more of a 67-70 Mercury Cougar fan...my favorite Mustang ever made is a 69-70 Boss 302. I'd rather have a Boss 302 Cougar Eliminator but I'll take either one
Were the Eliminators as good as road racers as the Boss 302 Mustangs? Or were they more like run-of-the-mill Cougars/Mustangs but used the sweet Boss 302 engine?
I think the Boss 302 & 429 was the peak of the first-gen ‘Stang. This may or may not be a popular opinion, but it looked the part and had the best performance.
My dad had a burnt orange 69 Boss 302. He suddenly died when I was 13 and my step mother gave that car to her brother. I just wanted to drive it one time
Not to mention the factory side stripes on the '70 at least reflected gold when headlights shone on them. Not sure if any other years did this but my neighbors did until it got hit by a snowplow.
Buddy of mine in Cleveland, OH had both of his parents work at the factory where they produced the Cleveland heads. His Dad had one of the first 100 Mustangs to come off the line with the 351 Cleveland in it, and that man loved that car...said he would thrash on it and that motor was a bullet proof torque monster...he didn't carry around pics of his son in his wallet, nope, he carried pics of his kid sittin in the passenger seat...never the driver seat though, which is hilarious to me....
Nice episode thanks. Wonder why the Magnum 500 wheels shown and described at 2:31 don't look like the typical units that you can see at 3:11 for example.
Probably pre-production publicity cars. I have been binge watching Chrysler dealer promo films of their cars from the 60s and 70s (e.g. 1969 Road Runner/GTX) and there are features and options mentioned or shown in some of the various films that were never seen on production cars. Speaking of wheels, in the 1970 Barracuda/'Cuda film, they showed a 1970 Hemi Cuda using wheels that looked like the ones at 2:31 that I have never seen on any production Hemi in any video or photo. This guy's series uses random photos of the cars being discussed, so I am sure he grabs pre-production publicity photos which is my theory for the wheels at 2:31 which I have never seen in any video or photo of a Boss 302.
The 70 boss 302 was a much better street racer than the 69 with those huge intake and exhaust ports. Know a guy who had a grabber orange 70 boss 302 and he said that thing was so fast off the line it was scary. He beat BB mopars and 427 chevys with that hi revving 302 on crappy tires. Imagine what they coulda done with the tires we have today.
So Shinoda left. Just how much influence did he have over the performance of the power-train? And if Ford gave up, how was he to change their mind? Sounds like he made a smart exit.
The BOSS 302 had a FORGED crank, shot peened rods and a "windage tray. When I bought my Boss 302 in '69, the FIRST thing I did was to have a set of Doug Thorely "tuned" headers installed, which made that engine come ALIVE! You wouldn't believe the difference in throttle response those headers made in that engine!
Thinking that Shinoda could have waved a magic wand in the mid 70's if he had stayed at Ford, and break the government's strangle hold on performance, is fantasy. That the Mustang survived through that turbulent time, when many other pony cars did not, was enough.
Didn't the shaker hood scoop also add H.P. Performance? Also You failed to mention H.P. on the 302 Engine. Not a Big Mustang guy, But love the 69-70 Boss cars.
Lonewolf McQuade I’m with you on that.....when I was a Junior in high school back in 1977, I was fortunate enough to save my money and buy a 1970 Mustang Mach 1 with the 351 Cleveland and shaker hood option. White with the flat back accents, man, that thing could smoke some tires, good thing I worked at a tire shop!😁
I think a lot of car companies made beautiful cars in 69. Doesn't hurt I was born that year also :) UGH those late 70's to mid 80s Mustangs...Capri Mustang and Pinto Mustang...pathetic 90hp - 150hp chick cars. UGH. Boxes after that. I love my 01 New Edge so much more.
Handling aspects are so much better in the percentage gains from then till now. Weight reduction always makes handling easier too. Engines aren't "that" much better when compared to overall suspension (tires too) advancements.
In my humble opinion, the Cleveland heads were one of the best designs for making a musstang out of a mule. So sad that Ford made so few and far between engine's that could handle the great breath of Cleveland heads. Myself owned a 1970 3514v with quench chambered heads. I can testify that even at 120mph the engine kept pulling u into the seat. I was always afraid to over rev. One race I obliterated the tires and blew both head gaskets. A 6000rpm neutral drop with an automatic, dont do it unless ur engine's bullet proof. 😉
when i was teenager my next door neighbor's son bought a new 1969 boss mustang then he was drafted into Vietnam and never came back, that car sat in the driveway for more than 30 years and just withered and rotted away, so many people wanted to buy that car but it was never sold.
Shinoda and Knudsen left Ford in 1969. Shinoda designed the '69 Mustang. The engine was created in early '68 by Ford engineers for Trans Am racing and before Shinoda was hired by Ford to help with Ford's marketing program.
Shinoda got a lot of credit for the Boss 302 that was not deserved , the engine was already decided before Shinoda came along, the body was just a sport roof with minor changes and paint scheme . The trans AM rules dictated that the engine had to be used in order to Homologate the boss engine into the race class. He was responsible for the name.
The numbers don't lie , First year models always sell the best the 1969 cars sold 299,824 cars the first year Shinoda Mustang the 1971 sold 151.484 cars. and to show it had nothing to do with the times the 1974 mustang sold 385,993 cars. The numbers prove Mustang buyers didn't like what Shinoda was trying to sell.
You're talking about total Mustang sales and blaming it on Larry Shinoda? He didn't design the Mustang... what do Mustang production numbers have to do with him?
x-ray Johnny drums you're absolutely right that's where the high-rise all the broad comes into play buddy tune the D tune you got my drift you have a good night take care
They de-tuned the street version of the BOSS 429 quite a bit...A laughably small 735cfm carb, a very restrictive exhaust with smog equipment, and a really mild camshaft made the BOSS 429 a big disappointment for its extremely high sticker price. A regular 428 Cobra Jet Mustang would beat it in the 1/4 mile and cost $1,500 to $2,000 less than the BOSS 429 did. But if you lose the smog pump and install headers, an 850cfm carb, a more aggressive camshaft, and sticky tires ... a Boss 429 is a TOTALLY different car and is capable of low 12 second 1/4 miles or possibly even quicker depending on cam choice
Jeremy Thompson can you imagine THE CARNAGE on the roads if they’d produced the ROAD Boss 429 the same way they built the competition version?? 99.9% of people on the road aren’t worthy of driving either one today, and I imagine the percentage would’ve been about the same in 1970.
290hp is hilarious! Anyone who’s owned one and or put one on the dyno Knows it actually produced about 350 and with a little tuning could make upwards of 400.
How can the Boss 302 be Shinoda's masterpiece if he is also responsible for the '63 split rear window? I like both but I'm pretty sure the '63 split window vette is far more significant.
a 69 shelby gt 500 4-speed would 4 wheel slide so close to the boss , both cars you had to make up for somebody in the back seat , a little less gas pedal
fanghicheck the ‘69 Shelby wasn’t designed to be a “corner hugging” machine like a boss 302. It was a boulevard cruiser, although with a CJ, it would steamroll almost anything. Until you had to stop, or go around a curve.
Ford really missed out on sticking a boss cam with a set of 2 v Cleveland heads on that motor.. it would have ran even a faster quarter mile with those head's.. don't believe me?.. it's been done..
Love the videos, but why does he insist on sounding like a robot reading Q cards during the videos, then on the outros he sounds normal again! Don't get it! 😳 🤘🇺🇸☮️
Bunkie Knudsen turned the Mustang into a land jacht by the early 70's. No wonder Shinoda left. Knudsen turned everything big just as he had at GM. What a shame. What was Ford thinking at the time. They got rid of Caroll Shelby by '69 and brought in Bud Moore, for the Trans Am series, who was a legend in his own right. But Ford seemed to be a mess at the time
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
I met Larry Shinoda 1983 at the Dearborn Sac convention. Spent about a half-hour talking to him and got his autograph he was a great man. I now own a 70 Boss 302 it's a great car.
Lorenzo Maximo hey may I ask you a question do all 1970 boss 429 have the air hood shaker and can it be one without the shaker I really don’t like the hood
John Mcclane no the Boss 429 was never offered with a shaker scoop. It was only produced with the large open mouthed scoop, with an internal flap utilized to ram more cool air into the carb.
My dad spent the $65 for the shaker in 70 for my brother returning from military service. He never made it back. I got it for college graduation in 80. My 70 blue mustang is my pride and joy. 302 Boss. 18,000 miles. If you use 104 avgas leaded, it will FLY.
macon phillips I just got my license last year and my dad gave me the Maxima which he bought new in 2009,so I want to keep it.
Very sorry for your brother, Macon.
Sorry to hear that man.
D- Smooth
Awesome.
God Bless You and Your family!!!! Man.... God knows my Heart Goes out to you Guys Bro!
The 69 Boss 302 is probably my favorite Mustang by far and I'm a Camaro, Cuda, Charger girl.
So, what you’re trying to tell us is you’re a pony car girl...
@@MrJett1971
But the Charger is Muscle.
Boss 302s are good but as far as ford small blocks in 1969 I'd take a 351w4v over it for all around performance. Same base horsepower, much more torque, way cheaper and way more performance parts available at the time.
Good girl.... 🤣
But of course
definitely one of my all time favorite cars
RIP Shinoda! A real legend with a legacy to be proud of!!!
Bunkie Knudsen Was fired by ford because the 1971 - 73 Mustang was a disaster, they tried to make the Mustang into a lard wagon like the Camaro.
Well Shinoda was a legend and did tons at GM. He was no fly by night, scene stealing wanna be. I am paying homage to the man, not saying he gets all the credit.
He may have been great for Pontiac but he ruined the mustang!
@@mylanmiller9656 Knudsen was fired by Ford in '69. Shinoda left at the same time. Shinoda had designed the '71-'73 Mustang, on paper, but had no hand it's development Some of Shinoda's designs had flaws, mostly poor visibility issues for the driver.
@@mainiac4pats Some of Shinoda's designs had flaws such as poor visibility issues for the driver. Example, the '63 Corvette "split-window" Stingray. '71-'73 Mustang fastbacks also.
I always knew Shinoda created the Boss 302. But to learn of the 63 Vette is amazing! What a visionary in car design! These are the cars I grew up idolizing in my youth! Amazing talent!!!!
Thanks Fitzee! I’ve been slowly working my technique - practicing on floorboard patches and replacement - and am now just about ready for body panel work. All thanks to You!
Larry Shinoda and John Chun deserve a lot of recognition for their contributions 👏👏👏👏👏👏.
I really appreciate the respect that you give to these historic works of art and the artists who created them.
My favorite non Shelby Mustang ever made. Really like the 71 Boss 351 too even though many people don't like that body style. The Boss 351 was actually quicker than a 429CJ Mustang in the 1/4 mile
Boss 351 Mustang quicker than a 429scj Mustang? Only in your dreams, cupcake. Boss 351=14.9 in 1/4 mile. 429SCJ Mach I Mustang=13.8 in 1/4 mile. Do the math !
@@sergeantmasson3669 you’re so wrong on your figures.
@@lewisshepard9239 Obviously, your ability to do research is quite limited. 429 SCJ Mustang has 45 hp more than the Boss 351 Mustang and 80 more pounds of torque. 429 SCJ Mustang is 1.1 second quicker in the 1/4 mile. That's with both cars having the 3:91 rear gears ratio. If the 429 SCJ Mustang has the drag-pack package, rear gears would be Detroit Locker 4:11 ratio.
@@sergeantmasson3669 in place of trying to calculate your figures,have you ever just looked up actual 1/4 et from back in the day. The Boss 351 was a 13.6 or 13.8. I’d have to look it up to be sure. But there wasn’t about a tenth difference between em.
@@lewisshepard9239 WTH stats are you looking at? All the ones I looked at, the 429 SCJ Mustang is quicker/faster than a Boss 351 Mustang. I own a '70 Torino with the 429 SCJ engine and drag-pack option. It has done high 12's on a NHRA 1/4 track using radial tires and closed exhaust. Ford rated the 429SCJ as having 375 hp but in reality, it's 450 hp stock which is 120 hp more than the Boss 351 engine.
Owned a 69 Boss which I sold during the "gas crisis" in the early 70s. Many years later bought 1 a 70 Boss 302. Loved those cars. Sold it several years ago but never rued buying them, only selling them!
I owned a 70 model Boss 302 from '76 till 81. One of my biggest mistakes in life was selling that car. It was not extremely fast and by today's standard, didn't handle that great. But, it was a blast to drive...made good sounds when the headers were open....and was an eye catcher of a car.
I have a buddy with a factory mint 1970 boss 302 Blue with black trim shaker scoop and mags. Sounds incredible. Very low miles like macon phillips.
I love this channel, I`m glad I discovered it a week or two ago. Thank you. :)
My best friend when I was 16 was a year older than me, and dropped by my house one day in a yellow 1970 Boss 302. Didn't have the rear spoiler or window shade, but had the shaker hood scoop. I'd never seen a car so beautiful, and had never gone so fast in a car. He took the rev limiter off after a year, and blew the 302 up after three years of owning it..
The '69 FastBack has always been my fave. Boss 302 were screamer's.
Nice . I had a very rare Mustang Mach 1 69 .5 SCJ 428 GT . The Boss 302 was very underrated. HP or displacement had little to do with winning a race . The Boss was the car I should've had. 😎
I have wanted to put a Boss 302 engine in a Mustang II. That light thing would SCREAM!
Nothing beats a high revving small block.Weight distribution,handling,etc,just optimal performance all the way around
it may has its issues, but still, sexiest looking mustang to ever roll out of the factory
Whew.... That's a tall claim. Have you seen the 2020 Shelby?
@@SinnerSince1962 yeah I've seen it.
Bryan Dover yes, and i agree with Andrew Samy
AbdulAziz Alradhwan. M2
I agree, especially when you compare it to the "Transformer's" look of the last couple of years of Mustang Styling.
The '69 Boss has a Cross drilled crank. This was dropped in '70 as it was deemed unnecessary. On the '70 model, the scoops outboard of the headlights were designed as a cold air induction system for the engine. The SCCA disallowed this, in racing, because this was not in the production version. At 780 CFM, the stock Holley carburetor was way too big for an engine this size. While the Z/28 could be had with true 4 wheel disc brakes from the factory, Ford offered a (super expensive) rear wheel disc option. This was a "competition only" setup as their was no emergency brake provision. On tight racing tracks the superior braking of the Z/28 gave Chevy the edge. On long tracks, the free breathing Cleveland heads gave the Boss the edge. In '69 Ford lost the SCCA Trans-Am championship to the Z/28s. A study in why this happened reveals the Boss was the faster car, but tire failure and slow pit stops cost Ford the championship. In '70 Ford corrected these shortcomings and clinched the championship. The Boss was fairly amazing, with it's triple valve springs, forged steel crank, aluminum intake, etc. So was the Chevy Z/28. In my opinion (which is worth about what you're paying,...nothing) a fully optioned STOCK Z/28 would beat a Boss. However, in modified form the Boss was superior. Their is a very famous (and well celebrated) story of a completely stock Boss 302 entering an amateur SCCA race, competing against fully modified race cars. The stock Boss placed second overall in this race. There is a LOT more I could say, like the front fenders on a Boss 302 were slightly widened to encompass the wide 60 series tires),...but this old man has rambled enough.
Work of art. Awesome car.
I remember being 13, our next door neighbor bought 2, his was red hers deep green, not Boss 302, but 302 none the less, got to see them every day. Was a treat in late 68.
Met Larry Shinoda at Knott's Berry Farm Fabulous Ford's in the 90s. He had a booth selling t-shirts to pay for his medical bills. What a shame he had to do that! He passed about a year or so later. This shirt was mustard w/black boss stripes.
I had a 1970 Mustang with the standard 302 engine. I put in 271hp cam, 700cfm double pumper Holley, Edlebrock highrise intake manifold, appliance headers, dual point distributor with traction bars. The car ran at the strip a 14.53 @103mph with a c4 auto trans with a T bar shifter. I loved that car and still love it today.
Adjustable valve train ?
Definitely one of the best looking mass production cars ever made.
Great job. Beautiful car.
Larry Shinoda did not like the 1971 Boss 351. He said that the 1971 Boss 351 hood is so long you could land a plane on it.
Larry Shinoda was gone from Ford by year's end in 1969. Thus, he played no part in the '71 Boss 351.
@@sergeantmasson3669 Never said or implied he did. But. He did create the Boss 302. And the Boss 351 uses its name and legacy. He was merely critical of its design. They are called the Clydesdale Mustangs for a reason. I owned a 72 Sportsroof 351 4v car. I tend to agree with Larry.
@@DanielCollins85 It didn't matter because he had no part in designing the '71-'73 Mustangs and was already gone before the new design was done. Gail Halderman was the designer.
@@DanielCollins85 Shinoda designed the '69 Mustang body. The engine was designed by Ford engineers in order to compete in the Trans-Am series racing.
@@sergeantmasson3669 Shinoda didnt design the 69 Mustang, he designed the Boss 302. It was his special project from Knudsen. Because of this he always said when asked about the project "Im working on the bosses car.".
had three bosses at the same time , GO MUSTANG
fang check I had 2 Mustangs a 68 390 s code fast back n a 71 Mach 1 351Clev ,to Awesome n dependable car s
Are you a Saudi crown prince?
Beautiful muscle car
Great vid. Would love to see a video on the boss 429!
It's worth noting it didn't just have the 351C heads, it had the 351C 4V heads, which had such large ports it hurt low end torque on the 351 itself, so imagine when it did to the 302. Had they built the 302 to withstand its ability to free rev to 8,000 rpm as it could do with those heads, it might be a different story, but they didn't. The 4V was overkill for such a small street engine IMO and the 2V version of the head would have served better.
The large ports and overall design of the 351C 4V were so well built for high revving hp that NASCAR Fords still use a derivative design of it to this day. It was also the sole reason for the regulators to slap those restrictor plates on the intake manifolds at one time, because using the design of this engine, Bill Elliott was literally (I mean literally) running laps around the Chevy engine powered racecars.
I saw a video once where someone tested a Ford 351 by bolting on 4v heads and then 2v heads. And they literally made the same power.
It's good dynamics in the head that produces performance, not just crude size.
HAL 9000 Be it America or Australia, racing officials have never been ones to stand by when a Ford is giving a GM product a sound thrashing.
The Ford heads that would have been best for the 302 BOSS would have been those Cleveland style heads produced in Ford's Australian plant that used the port and valve sizes of the 2 barrel Cleveland heads with the quenched combustion chambers of the '70-'71 351-4V heads. Sadly, those heads didn't come out until after the demise of the BOSS 302.
You wouldn't have a torque problem if you went to an long tube equal length headers. I had the same problem with a 92 Olds Achieva SCX W41 in a 8k ft environment. I solved it with a custom headers. I would recommend you get your hands on a copy of Headers by Ed catalog. You can have all of your pwr down low if done right.
@@w41duvernay that may be so. But I put in a 5.4 inch rod and custom piston and picked up some low end torque.
Although I'm more of a 67-70 Mercury Cougar fan...my favorite Mustang ever made is a 69-70 Boss 302. I'd rather have a Boss 302 Cougar Eliminator but I'll take either one
Were the Eliminators as good as road racers as the Boss 302 Mustangs? Or were they more like run-of-the-mill Cougars/Mustangs but used the sweet Boss 302 engine?
I think the Boss 302 & 429 was the peak of the first-gen ‘Stang. This may or may not be a popular opinion, but it looked the part and had the best performance.
Quick once it get going, but not off the line against a big block!😁🛠️
My dad had a burnt orange 69 Boss 302. He suddenly died when I was 13 and my step mother gave that car to her brother. I just wanted to drive it one time
Not to mention the factory side stripes on the '70 at least reflected gold when headlights shone on them. Not sure if any other years did this but my neighbors did until it got hit by a snowplow.
Buddy of mine in Cleveland, OH had both of his parents work at the factory where they produced the Cleveland heads. His Dad had one of the first 100 Mustangs to come off the line with the 351 Cleveland in it, and that man loved that car...said he would thrash on it and that motor was a bullet proof torque monster...he didn't carry around pics of his son in his wallet, nope, he carried pics of his kid sittin in the passenger seat...never the driver seat though, which is hilarious to me....
Actually Larry Shinoda was not involved with the Boss 351 and in fact disliked the 1971 Mustang in general.
I love that it was still an actual race car on the streets. 290HP? That cannot be all it could muster. 335-360hp I would say.
Nice episode thanks. Wonder why the Magnum 500 wheels shown and described at 2:31 don't look like the typical units that you can see at 3:11 for example.
Probably pre-production publicity cars. I have been binge watching Chrysler dealer promo films of their cars from the 60s and 70s (e.g. 1969 Road Runner/GTX) and there are features and options mentioned or shown in some of the various films that were never seen on production cars. Speaking of wheels, in the 1970 Barracuda/'Cuda film, they showed a 1970 Hemi Cuda using wheels that looked like the ones at 2:31 that I have never seen on any production Hemi in any video or photo. This guy's series uses random photos of the cars being discussed, so I am sure he grabs pre-production publicity photos which is my theory for the wheels at 2:31 which I have never seen in any video or photo of a Boss 302.
Well done,....a nice summary.
The 70 boss 302 was a much better street racer than the 69 with those huge intake and exhaust ports. Know a guy who had a grabber orange 70 boss 302 and he said that thing was so fast off the line it was scary. He beat BB mopars and 427 chevys with that hi revving 302 on crappy tires. Imagine what they coulda done with the tires we have today.
The 70's boss mustang is my dream car
Mine to. I did have a 70 fastball Mustang with the standard 302. I always wanted a boss 302 but couldn't afford the insurance at the time.
Well, don’t mean us hanging-you only have three to choose from...’70 Boss 302 and 429, and ‘71 Boss 351.
So Shinoda left. Just how much influence did he have over the performance of the power-train? And if Ford gave up, how was he to change their mind? Sounds like he made a smart exit.
The BOSS 302 had a FORGED crank, shot peened rods and a "windage tray. When I bought my Boss 302 in '69, the FIRST thing I did was to have a set of Doug Thorely "tuned" headers installed, which made that engine come ALIVE! You wouldn't believe the difference in throttle response those headers made in that engine!
ojars zvaigzne I would believe it in a second with those heads!! I have a 1970 351c that has a ton of power!!
Best handling muscle car.
Perfection!
Iv always wonder why the "Boss" logo was a decal and not a badge ?
Thinking that Shinoda could have waved a magic wand in the mid 70's if he had stayed at Ford, and break the government's strangle hold on performance, is fantasy. That the Mustang survived through that turbulent time, when many other pony cars did not, was enough.
Nice Video but you forgot to mention the sn95 94 or 95 boss shinoda tribute mustang that came out
How about a story on the 90's Shinoda Boss mustang?
1969 mustang fastback is the best looking car ever made.
Didn't the shaker hood scoop also add H.P. Performance? Also You failed to mention H.P. on the 302 Engine. Not a Big Mustang guy, But love the 69-70 Boss cars.
Johnny Yum 4:35 290hp official factory rating.
Rated at 290hp & 290tq but actually made 325hp & 300tq
Proven many times over made around 365 hp.
It's crazy to know my Ford F-150 3.5L Ecoboost laughs at the Boss 302's 1/4 mile and 0-60 times. Times have changed.
Put it on a road course, tho. I guarantee you the Boss would win.
Who's plays those catchy guitar chords and whats the name of the song?
Wow I really like the one at 6:35. NICE VIDEO
I would definitely have a hard time picking the 69 Boss or the Mach1 351 Cleveland if I had to choose
Lonewolf McQuade I’m with you on that.....when I was a Junior in high school back in 1977, I was fortunate enough to save my money and buy a 1970 Mustang Mach 1 with the 351 Cleveland and shaker hood option. White with the flat back accents, man, that thing could smoke some tires, good thing I worked at a tire shop!😁
I had both and loved them both!
Larry Shinoda and his family were put in prison during WW2 by Good Ole' Franklin D. Roosevelt.
Decent car but the Boss 429 is even better. Not to mention all the early Shelby Mustangs.
u should do a video on the 302 camaro u dont hear much about them.
I think a lot of car companies made beautiful cars in 69. Doesn't hurt I was born that year also :) UGH those late 70's to mid 80s Mustangs...Capri Mustang and Pinto Mustang...pathetic 90hp - 150hp chick cars. UGH. Boxes after that. I love my 01 New Edge so much more.
Handling aspects are so much better in the percentage gains from then till now. Weight reduction always makes handling easier too. Engines aren't "that" much better when compared to overall suspension (tires too) advancements.
BrewBlaster .
That's when cars were cars and men were men
In my humble opinion, the Cleveland heads were one of the best designs for making a musstang out of a mule. So sad that Ford made so few and far between engine's that could handle the great breath of Cleveland heads. Myself owned a 1970 3514v with quench chambered heads. I can testify that even at 120mph the engine kept pulling u into the seat. I was always afraid to over rev. One race I obliterated the tires and blew both head gaskets. A 6000rpm neutral drop with an automatic, dont do it unless ur engine's bullet proof. 😉
when i was teenager my next door neighbor's son bought a new 1969 boss mustang then he was drafted into Vietnam and never came back, that car sat in the driveway for more than 30 years and just withered and rotted away, so many people wanted to buy that car but it was never sold.
That’s such a sad story. It’s amazing how quickly cars deteriorate just sitting outside year after year. At least they do in the mid-Atlantic region.
98mph was top speed due to 4:10 gearing. My friend had one. It was pretty quick.
Pretty sure you could get a 4.30 rear axle on these from the factory
98 mph? Are you insane or just stupid?
Shinoda and Knudsen left Ford in 1969. Shinoda designed the '69 Mustang. The engine was created in early '68 by Ford engineers for Trans Am racing and before Shinoda was hired by Ford to help with Ford's marketing program.
Nice!
Shinoda got a lot of credit for the Boss 302 that was not deserved , the engine was already decided before Shinoda came along, the body was just a sport roof with minor changes and paint scheme . The trans AM rules dictated that the engine had to be used in order to Homologate the boss engine into the race class. He was responsible for the name.
A lot of people know who Larry Shinoda is. Who are you?
The numbers don't lie , First year models always sell the best the 1969 cars sold 299,824 cars the first year Shinoda Mustang the 1971 sold 151.484 cars. and to show it had nothing to do with the times the 1974 mustang sold 385,993 cars. The numbers prove Mustang buyers didn't like what Shinoda was trying to sell.
You're talking about total Mustang sales and blaming it on Larry Shinoda? He didn't design the Mustang... what do Mustang production numbers have to do with him?
the 1971 mustang was Shinodas baby, that is why both him and Knudson were fired when the 1971 was a flop!
Shinoda was fired from Ford in 1969.
I like the highly optioned Mach 1 better with the 428 cubic inch big block .
Which is quicker around a race track: A true '65 GT350 or a '69-'70 Boss 302?
Good question. I’d have to guess the gt 350, just by the size of it maybe.
@@setharnold3699 That too, would be my guess.
Make it a GT-350 R-model, and there’s your answer. The ‘65 street models were hairier than the ‘66, but the R was King Kong compared to them.
1969 was the better of the two years. Both years ate '67-'69 Camaro Z/28's for snacks.
The 69 is way better looking than the longer 71.
They put a smaller carburetor on the BOSS 429 and even rev limited it more than the BOSS 302.
x-ray Johnny drums you're absolutely right that's where the high-rise all the broad comes into play buddy tune the D tune you got my drift you have a good night take care
They de-tuned the street version of the BOSS 429 quite a bit...A laughably small 735cfm carb, a very restrictive exhaust with smog equipment, and a really mild camshaft made the BOSS 429 a big disappointment for its extremely high sticker price. A regular 428 Cobra Jet Mustang would beat it in the 1/4 mile and cost $1,500 to $2,000 less than the BOSS 429 did. But if you lose the smog pump and install headers, an 850cfm carb, a more aggressive camshaft, and sticky tires ... a Boss 429 is a TOTALLY different car and is capable of low 12 second 1/4 miles or possibly even quicker depending on cam choice
Id go with a 1970 429 SCJ camshaft in the BOSS 429 if I had one
Jeremy Thompson can you imagine THE CARNAGE on the roads if they’d produced the ROAD Boss 429 the same way they built the competition version?? 99.9% of people on the road aren’t worthy of driving either one today, and I imagine the percentage would’ve been about the same in 1970.
Seriously?? How could anyone NOT get the Shaker Hood....I still am trying to wrangle an early 2000s Mach 1.
$65 was a lot of money when minimum wage was a $1.60 an hour.
All it really did was provide a cold air intake.
To increase engine power it would have to increase the pressure in the intake, which it didn't do.
Boss 302!😁🛠️👍 Boss 429!! Boss 351!!😁
The Boss 302 is not a Windsor, it's a Cleveland.
1969 Boss 302: the Mustang with eyeliner 😂
290hp is hilarious! Anyone who’s owned one and or put one on the dyno Knows it actually produced about 350 and with a little tuning could make upwards of 400.
How can the Boss 302 be Shinoda's masterpiece if he is also responsible for the '63 split rear window? I like both but I'm pretty sure the '63 split window vette is far more significant.
James...you have a valid point! Good catch!
My favorite mustang of all time. However today 2022 it’s really slow and horrible in the handling dept. 6.5 to 60 compared to 2.6 to 60 today.
Learn what ironic means - it is not ironic that it returns
The first heads were a little much for the 302 but worked good on a 351.
I don't agree. Have you ever had one of those engines ?
Shinoda shoulda went back to GM. I much preferred Fords earlier design. The rear wheel well scoops made it stand out as unique and formidable.
Daniel J....why should he have returned to Garbage Motors?
does it have ac
No
One of the only musclecars that could turn a corner
a 69 shelby gt 500 4-speed would 4 wheel slide so close to the boss , both cars you had to make up for somebody in the back seat , a little less gas pedal
fanghicheck the ‘69 Shelby wasn’t designed to be a “corner hugging” machine like a boss 302. It was a boulevard cruiser, although with a CJ, it would steamroll almost anything. Until you had to stop, or go around a curve.
Ford really missed out on sticking a boss cam with a set of 2 v Cleveland heads on that motor.. it would have ran even a faster quarter mile with those head's.. don't believe me?.. it's been done..
As ironic as it sounds, yes. The Corvette was also designed by Japanese guy
The Camaro 302 was a 283 with 327 heads
No,actually it was a 327 with a 283 crank.
Love the videos, but why does he insist on sounding like a robot reading Q cards during the videos, then on the outros he sounds normal again! Don't get it! 😳
🤘🇺🇸☮️
he only did the body not the drivetrain
Bunkie Knudsen turned the Mustang into a land jacht by the early 70's. No wonder Shinoda left. Knudsen turned everything big just as he had at GM. What a shame. What was Ford thinking at the time. They got rid of Caroll Shelby by '69 and brought in Bud Moore, for the Trans Am series, who was a legend in his own right. But Ford seemed to be a mess at the time
1969
6150 or 6950 RPM?
6150
6950 is the rev limiter date code.
The 50th week of 1969. For the 1970 model year.
Oh my God if this f****** guy says 302 one more time!
Had a buddy who bought one new Car ran ok, little slower than the chevy. But drove like a truck. Not as refined as chevy. But beautiful.
hunnert????????????????? :-)
6150 Rev limiter? I see 6950 oops...
give me a SCJ Mach 1 anyday.
Totally different car. The SCJ would win a drag race, but the Boss would tear it a new one on a road course.