We purchased a 2023 Coachmen Crosstrail 21XG. Take it home 6/23/23 and water leaking out of a light switch on roof. Turned around and brought it back during rain. Pick up next day all fixed. Drive around a bit and we leave 7/1 to Texas. Fridge not working, still. A/C loud when we arrived in Tennessee while plugged in. Water hooked up. In morning water on floor. Drive to Texas and nothing in RV is working. Back and forth with dealer and coachmen. 7/8 we cut vacation short and drive to Indiana as Coachmen said bring here and we will fix. Arrive Monday at 1 am. Called for a place to park it and hotel was lovely and let us park in a bus spot. Get to Coachmen up road at 9:30. They put us in hotel for 4 nights while they worked on: replaced banquette(falling apart), installed cushions so they were not falling around, repaired overhead as it was loose from water roof leak, no a/c-replaced that, solar panels, Go Power, Unit under that, sealed air coming in between RV and can that was getting us sick-was never sealed. Repaired loose wall panels, shower wall panel buckled, metal vent cover bent, drawer bowed, screws sticking out and were removed, bed had no trim on bottom and husband cut hand-they put trim on, etc. we leave and no fridge they will ship to dealer where we purchased. Solar unit and Go power unit start flashing on way home 7/14. As if today still no fridge and waiting to get solar units poked at as they are blank.🤬😭 haven’t been able to use it since we bought it!😭😭
Thay cheapen up the campers one time thay where good whith smart peaple today thay put low rate kids out of school whith engineering skills green horns and thay make a lot of mistakes because thay pay them less money 💰 than the good engineering teams that are good so thare campers are poorly made and very unsafe so I say keep away from this grand design campers you are paying to much today for a poorly made product
Annie, this an epic story! If you'd like to be interviewed to help bring change to the RV industry (and hopefully get the manufacturer to do right by you), email me at liz@lizamazing.com. I am planning a follow up to this video now. Thanks for sharing and wishing you best of luck no matter what path you choose.
Best Advice: Buy NOTHING built during the Pandemic. The absolute worst quality control in the history of our industry. Unskilled unmotivated workers. Corporations that just wanted to get their product out at any cost, regardless of the labor problems. Wouldn’t even consider anything built from 2020 to 2022, and with reporting like you’re doing Liz, these companies are going to get held accountable for their shady business practices. Keep up the great work, Liz.!😀
AGREE WITH YOU! We had the same experience with our New Grand Design Trailer. In the shop so many times we stopped counting. The issue was with refrigerator install ( not actual refrigerator) , cabinets falling apart, left bed issue, shower broken twice. Our unit was in the shop more than we used it. We got rid of it. Our friends bought a new Jayco and had similar type of repairs with their unit in shop for months at a time. I DONT TRUST THAT THERE IS ANY QUALITY ANYMORE!
I’ve watched several of your videos, and it’s unbelievable how many RV’ers have so much aggravation, chaos, turmoil, and grief. And not to mention the massive amounts of money they spend and spend and spend. Apparently many must be fortunate to have an abundant supply of money. Life is to short. I’m 67, and I’ve been all about simplicity and happiness for a long time now. But that’s me.
I was in the market to buy new and with all the horror stories I was reading, I didn’t pull the trigger. So glad I didn’t. The RV market took advantage of the huge demand around 2020 and just slapped them together. I don’t know how they’re still in business with all the repairs! Shame on them!
My wife and I have been camping for 45 years and I’ve owned 9 of these pieces of S(“‘T 5th wheels and diesel pushers. They are all junk there’s no getting around it. When you buy one of these the first thing you have to ask yourself is how much money you want to lose. The only way you’re going to get your money’s worth with these camper’s is keep it and run the wheels off of it and you have to know how to fix and work on them. Because once you pay for it and pull it off the lot dealers don’t even want to talk to you. It doesn’t matter if you buy a $5000 pop-up or a $2.2 million motor home there all junk and they all fall apart.
That is exactly my story I'm now driving a 2020 F350 Lariat diesel, that I bought new, but NO RV because of this foolishness. A car company would have been sued out of business if they built junk like this and sold it for 100k dollars.
I have a 23 foot forest river B class on a Ford transit no slides and I just drive around with no problems now it’s just me and my little Maltese dog if I had an adult with me it would be harder but I still wouldn’t cyst on an RV without slides This is been an issue ongoing forever, and my dad even has a bounder, and the bounder was almost bulletproof. It just would take the family everywhere and work great it just didn’t have hardly any failures until one day. The slide wouldn’t come in and out and my dad worked with it and worked with it. Different members of the campground worked with it and my dad had to end up calling someone to come out that RV repair person that comes out to your RV and he said you got have a new slide motor, there was failure in the motor itself and also it needed some fluid hydraulic fluid so both of those things had to be done. My dad spent just about 3000 that day on getting the slides fixed and we only went about four hours away and we had the grandkids and everybody with us in, we were pretty taken by that bill but nevertheless, and I just said to myself no I will get a RV with no slides and I still to this day. I have always found new RVs with no slides and I’ll tell you what it’s a whole lot less problematic. It’s a whole lot warmer in the winter because you don’t have that big wall With all that gasket around it and if it rains and you have to pull that slide and you got water in your RV and so I just prefer not to have any slides and you can find them you just have to look and the salesman are always trying to sell your slides but what they don’t tell you is when you have a slide you got a big hole with no structural support That makes a difference you know so when I buy a old Safari or I buy a bus or I buy this one I bought hi I don’t have slides and I might take out some furniture just to have some more room but it’s worth it I mean I don’t want to have structural problems and I have never had them but that’s just something I gave up to set extra room inside to be able to drive off simpler and reliably
Our 2022 Keystone Alpine 3790FK frame failed in just 5 months. The I beams rolled under and bent over 6 inches at the axles so bad that we had to abandon it in Illinois. Keystone blamed us by trying to say we had to have been hit, yet there was no body damage. Then they said that we had to have been hit at "axle level". They refused to honor the warranty and wouldn't/couldn't repair the damage. The front kitchen slide (Schwintek) failed after only 5 in and out cycles. The dealership determined that it had been built incorrectly and ordered a new slide, but before the new slide had come in, the frame had failed. We had put less than 10k miles on it and it was our home. We didn't get back any of the 11k down payment and lost part of the "extended warranty" and GAP insurance as well. NEVER AGAIN with any Keystone product!!!!
@@LizAmazing Have you heard about GD new 5 year structural warranty, which is retroactive, for those having issues and have already bought one of their RV's. A guy named "Outdoor Jaye" did a video on it 3 days ago. I can email it to you if you can't find it! According to GD, all of the negative media attention (you 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉) was not warranted, because only a minimal amount had serious structural issues 😂😂😂, but the CEO decided to add this warranty anyway!
My wife and I walked away from the literal signing of the paper work just yesterday. We were about to buy a 2020 Keystone residence. But after evaluating the total cost with trade in, site fees also are high here in Canada. It would have cost us around 2700 a month. So instead of doing that, we’re just gonna rent our current house out, and rent an apartment for a couple years.
We bought a new Grande Design in 2018 and anything that could go wrong has gone wrong. Before we ever left the dealership, the air had to be replaced. Will never buy another GD.
Liz, outstanding video about quality of RV today. In 2017, We had our 2008 Prevost at a campground in Florida, (Camping on the Gulf, Miramar, Fl). One of our slide-outs on our 08 Country Coach Prevost wouldn’t retract. I called Prevost and they flew technicians down immediately to repair the slide at no cost to us. They told me they knew they were having issues with certain slides and responded immediately. The quality of the rvs today is very poor. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Wow, I've heard good things about Prevost-- and Country Coach. What a great story, Bill. Thanks for sharing. I hope the RV industry makes some much needed changes soon. Thanks for your kind words and have a great weekend.
We need to start writing our congressmen and extend Lemon law coverage to RV's. I've heard so many horror stories like this. Some people spend their life savings on these hoping to use it in retirement. This isn't right.
There are Lemon Laws in some states that cover RVs. But not sure how well they work. Thanks for watching, and I agree, this is not right. Hoping my video helps bring about change.
Only little minor things on my 2022 Grand Design Solitude and they took care of it immediately and shipped out replacement sinks that did not work at 2nd time trying them. Faucets just quit. Vacuum also had an issue and sent a part to fix right away. So far very pleased with Our solitude but do know some of every manufacturer will have issues but it’s how do they take care and fix them for us. I’m very pleased so far!
So happy to hear this, Tom. I was pleased with my brand new Reflection. They sent parts directly to me also, and paid for a mobile tech. The Solitude I had (310GK) had some issues, but nothing like what is going on with the 390RK. Sure hope they get it together. Happy travels to you and thanks for your comment.
The engineering calculations for most load scenarios are not complex. The problem may be that the design goes from the engineering dept to the “Lets Make it Cheaper” dept where girder specifications are changed to either thinner steel, steel to aluminum, forging to cast, or worst....cross section change from I beam or channel to C section.
@@Greatdome99 Engineers...you know...the people who drive trains. But seriously, I agree and believe the frames should be twice as strong as they should be.
We bought our Grand Design two years ago and have had no problems that the fantastic dealership at Harper Camperland (Great Bend, KS) couldn’t fix. They also have their own campground while they do the repairs. It was amazing.
Won't say the RV didn't have issues but between me, the dealer and Grand Design we got through them. I'm pretty big on maintenance, so I keep a pretty close eye on things. If you can't do some of the work yourself, I wouldn't get an RV!
Seeing how thousands of potential RV buyers will now hear this horror story, I'm willing to bet it will be cheaper for Grand Design to just tell this couple, "Sorry for all the trouble here's a new replacement trailer." Then you can do the happy follow-up and our collective faith in humanity will be restored!
These issues are showing up in all the brands using Lippert Chassis. Montana actually has a "crash team" of welders who travel and fix these flaws when found all over the nation.
There is not ONE RV on the market that is ever worth the money or time. As soon as people figure that out the better they will be. RV salespeople are more similar to time share salespeople than car sales people.
Right on Liz. RV Manufactures MUST step up. Changing Lanes worked with Grand Design on a new unit. They picked it up and had a few issues. Who in the right mind knowing that they had been doing TH-cam videos about the process wouldn't at least make sure they got a perfect one? To their credit they did show what issues they had. Way back in the day the big three car makers were putting out some way below quality cars. They didn't care. Then Honda and others arrived on the scene and they lost big market share. Maybe we can get Honda to start building RV's. They would own the market. You look at various TH-camrs adding batteries, solar and other electrical equipment and the quality job they do make the rats nest of wiring from the manufacture stick out like the lack of quality it is. Great video and everyone needs to step up the pressure on the manufactures. That couple deserves all their money back!!
They sure do! I'm definitely hoping my video helps to wake up the industry. When spending all that money for a new camper, it better be good! Thanks for watching.
This is all to common. We traded our 2016 Carbon 5th Wheel for a 2018 Hyperlite toy hauler. My husband didn't want a new one for this reason. I hope you can give us an update on this couple in the future.
I agree. If Honda made an RV (That would shake the industry!) you can bet big money the quality control would be spot on. They would not make anything that has poor engineering or quality. It's called pride of workmanship and engineering.
If a company like Toyota, Honda, Subaru or Lexus ever got into the RV industry, 95% of these shoddy RV companies, Forest River, Keystone, Grand Design, ect., ect....would be out of business in 24 months, guaranteed...
Same as my Jeep bought new all service preformed at a dealership numerous check engine lights. Engine failures Chrysler refused to replace the engine period. Yes, it's still under warranty. Good Luck.
I was just in the market for a "new" RV. I have done my research as well as talking to many people regarding the "COVID" models built between 2019 and 2023. I decided to go used so bought a very nice and rarely used 2015 and have been very happy with it so far. The build quality is far superior to what I walked through at the local dealerships....
I did a video on my TH-cam Channel about the nightmare of a Grand Design Reflection 303rls 2021 model. Walls and floor separating. Kitchen sink falling through and drawers flying out on travel day. We got rid of it. We went with a another company and we couldn't be happier. We contacted Grand Design and they wouldn't help. We even went to a Grand Design rally and they told us to let a dealer work on it. They didn't want to see us or our RV at their place in Elkhart. Grand Design RVs are junk.
I have heard a lot of people complain about Grand Design trailers that they bought during the pandemic. I hope this couple are still talking with GD about getting this resolved and I hope your video helps with a resolution. With that said, our 2016 Grand Design Reflection was made very well. Grand Design was formed from former Montana RV leaders. That impressed us when we made our purchase. They then sold to Winnebago and I am wondering if that is a contributor to the decline in manufacturing.
Hi Kathy! Yes, you got a good year for Grand Design. I could tell when I walked into your Reflection it was built better than the Solitude we had at the time. The Solitude was built pre-covid, but they had already cheapened the build. Happy travels to you and Larry!
It’s the not the pandemic to blame. Grand Design was bought by Winnebago Industries in 2016. Quality has been declining since. Enough of blaming the pandemic. It’s no excuse for putting out junk. They shouldn’t have sold them or been allowed to sell them if they couldn’t build them to proper standards.
@@YachtsOnTheReg7 same goes for Forrest river. Too bad grand design was on a roll. Like many they sold their souls and it was a downward slide from their.
We have a 2021 Keystone Cougar 368MBI. Went from NY to Tennessee and then up east coast. Midway down the side the header broke and split the siding of my camper. Camping world was baffled. Keystone had them do several measurements. Keystone then said it has to come back. September to March we had a whole new sidewall, structural enhancement and a completely new roof. I will say Keystone stood behind this and paid every dime. They also went thru and fixed some other punch list items while it was there.
I've been looking at GD, specifically the 370FLS.. but EVERY ONE I've looked at has vastly substandard welds in the structure where you can see them (mainly the passthrough and the front storage. If your paying for a "premium" RV, I expect premium welds, not little burned blobs that won't hold very long.
Yes indeed! I had a brand new Solitude before this. I had quality issues such as the kitchen island collapsing, trim falling off. Very frustrating. Thanks for watching, Kris.
@@LizAmazing It's becoming clear that GD is a company to avoid. I've read that, besides the Canadian brands (Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver) that the best American brands are Outdoors RV and Northwood.
I don't disagree with you, but keep in mind that most of the RV industry have their frames built to their specs by Lippert. So, going from one brand to another may not exactly resolve the poor craftsmanship issue that you're referring. All I can say is do your research.
Did I understand correctly that they knew beforehand that the model they wanted to buy had a structural design issue? Then why did they go through with the purchase? They assumed the problem had been solved but did not actually investigate that it had been fixed. Is that what they said, or did I misunderstand?
No you got that right. It's completely logical to think that if GD knew about the serious structural issues that they would fix it...instead of keep right on building them! These are relatively high dollar trailers and I feel for Bob and Louise. They did not get what they paid for. Shame on Grand Design! And thanks for watching.
We have a niche brand RV, Black Series, and I'm thankful for that decision. Everything more of less just works. We do have an LED light strip that blinks randomly if it is set to blue color, but no other faulty parts and we've taken it down to Padre Island (500 miles each way) several times just in the past 2 months for camping on the beach. The HQ21 is a sturdy beast.
I regret not getting an inspection on my Jayco 2021 used but luckily we bought an extended warranty- oh boy - my gray water tank lever seized and broke - water pump valve was leaking from natulis - fridge had a blown fuse and non working fans - bad ac gasket - all repaired and we’re doing great but many people who have Grand Designs who are having this issue and much much more -
Yes, it sure sounds like it. And unfortunately I don't think an inspection would have caught this type of structural issue. An inspector is not going to be able to get to the frame to inspect it, unfortunately. Thanks for watching and glad your issues are behind you now. Happy travels!
It may soon be time to submit a claim to their insurance company. I'm sure their insurer doesn't want a client traipsing around the country with a rig that may fall apart on the highway.
So we have had our Grand Design 390 RKR since December 2019. We have had minor issues with it but overall we’ve had a great camp. I’m sorry these people are bad issues. However, we have had no issues with Grand Design per se only lazy days where we bought it from because I repair that was done it done correctly. You have to watch pay you have repairs done with.
Hi Liz. I think the quality of a lot of things took a back set since COVID started and it seems to be the easy excuse. I hear of a lot of issues with the shwintech slides and if I was buying a new unit I’d avoid them like the plague. I hope your friends get some help and satisfaction soon. Keep well and stay safe.
Thanks Martin. Yep, I think the RV problems started before Covid, probably around 2015. Things started to go South after that. I don't think Bob & Louise had a problem with the slide, it was more the floor sinking making the slide inoperable. Thanks for being here!
Sorry to hear of your experience, but we bought a brand new 2022 Solitude with a rear bedroom. We’ve had zero problems. I hope your troubles get fixed.
Hi Liz! L 8:40 ove your stories. My wife and I have a Keystone Laredo we have had problems. Our trim coming off , the awning coming off. We got a washer dryer combo and the drain goes to the black tank. We had a mess. The tank is not fixed yet.
Good to know, Val. They definitely have gone downhill. Hoping this video causes the RV industry to wake up. Thanks for watching and enjoy the rest of your weekend.
My wife and I purchased a 375-RES IN April 2021. This unit has the same structure as the 390 with the living room up in the back. Same body, same slide configuration etc… Right now, it is Florida and I hav sheen very diligent in checking the slide structures! After seeing this, I will really get in there and check. Thanks for posting this Liz.
great channel liz. you're right on the money about rv life. i'm a gambler who lived in an rv' for 7 years, parking at race tracks and casinos wherever i went in addition to the usual - walmart, truck stops, etc.. as you've stated numerously, rv life is what you make it.
My 2019 imagine had 20 to 30 problems a really piece of junk! Bearing went out downtown Atlanta 22 hours to fix $1000 tow bill!! I would never buy from then again. I sold mine asap
We have a 2022 GD Reflection (travel trailer) as well as friends (theirs is a 2021)…neither of us have had ANY significant problems, thank goodness! We are super satisfied with our trailers. It’s so unfortunate to hear what these folks have gone through. GD needs to make it right for them. But we do believe that it’s an industry issue across the board for sure. Happy travels!
Hi Jane! So glad yours is doing good! This problem seems to be in particular to that floorplan. But it certainly is frustrating that GD knew about it BUT continued to build them flawed. Hope all that changes for the better soon. Thanks for watching and happy travels.
I too have empathy for this couple's experience, but in fairness to GD, and for benefit of those now shopping RVs...we also have a 2021 GD (Transcend: entry level of the GD offerings), purchased new that has been excellent. I had a premature seam failure in the awning (out of warranty period!!), and the awning manufacturer, encouraged by an advocate at GD, comped us a whole new fabric, which I can install. Fair enough. Also, I had a brush with a landscape boulder in an RV Park roadway on a trip in July, and my RV (independent) repair shop owner said...lucky it's basic "sticks & tin" (actually aluminum siding, nowadays) construction. If it were the fiberglass construction, it would be much more expensive to repair from a similar accident. So, do your own research, figure out what's most important to YOU in an RV,realize there are compromises to be made in any purchase, and assemble a toolkit and learn basic RV maint/repair.
hello guys I was talking to a passenger yesterday. and I was telling them whether new or used. you should get an inspection by a independent inspector. that not affiliated with the dealership or seller. good luck. it seems like there's no quality control anymore. such a shame. k matthews
There needs to be a vast improvement across All brands to improve quality & quality control!! And customer service!! I have been RV-less since spring of 2022 . . . I Do want another, but am Very hesitant considering the quality issues across the board!!
I can attest from the travel trailer side of the business is going the same way. My wife and I have an older (late 80's) Airstream that we bought about 5 years ago and have been pretty happy with it. Our trailer hasn't been perfect, but it's never left us stranded or impacted our trip with anything more than small issues. We took a long tour of the west in 2022 and stayed at a few dozen campsites which allowed us to meet other Airstream owners who own newer ones. More than a couple of them told us to hold onto our older Airstream as the new ones aren't built nearly as well. Each owner had stories of either failed electronics, awnings separating from the trailer, garbage left by the factory in inaccessible areas. or multiple rivets popping on the aluminum skin. It was very eye opening to say the least, but very nice people across the board. All people that didn't feel like they had been treated fairly by the industry. I think the industry is at a crossroads.
We bought a new Grand Design Solitude in 2017 and had so many issues from the get go. Every year we had to cancel many camping trips every year since. We had an extended warranty and would have spent way more than we paid for the warranty. Now we are out of warranty and had a water leak by the nautilus unit. So had to pay out of pocket for this. Not sure we want to buy another rv in the future. This year we have not been camping due to health issues so we will see what happens next year. Wish us luck for next year.
Wow, that's crazy Dorothy. I am so sorry. I thought 2017 was a good year for Grand Design. How frustrating. Thanks for your comment and hope you get out here next year. Take care.
What a shame...Shame on Grand Design! I hope this nice couple gets what they are hoping for. Great informative video Liz. Hope you're having a wonderful summer! Safe travels!😎😊
Thanks so much, Wendy. My heart goes out to Bob & Louise. I hope GD gets them taken care of. My summer is great and I am looking forward to Glacier. Have a great weekend!
Yeah, "Grand Design", my ass! More like _Terrible Design!_ 😠 It's especially ironic since the brand's name literally says that their products are well designed. 🙄
Yeah, before I buy anything, I am practically neurotic about researching for months and months. Then, I may actually buy something I don't need, but it's at least of value.
We enjoy you videos and take your advice to heart. You are correct when you advised that manufacturing RV’s after 2007 are not quality built. Never again will we buy GD. They are no better than any other manufacturer. We lost all our records when we discovered a disconnect of the black tank. Human waste was on all our previous records and our IRS filings. We were audited for our 2018 taxes. Our accountant said ‘this is one for the record’. We couldn’t produce our donations records (which were in the 5 digit category) due to ‘permanent damage due to human waste’. I am not even kidding. I’m sure our audit had IRS and our accounts’ office check off that square on their Bingo card. Again we appreciate your informed videos packed with first-hand experience from you. Keep up the great work and safe travels 😊
Thank you Liz for putting this information out there. I see brand new RV’s all the time with serious issues right from the start. As an inspector I look for things that appear out of alignment. There are problems when it comes to structure that may not be found right away but there are clues that something is off.
Yeah, I am hoping you would find something like that, but with the underbelly covered up, I am not sure you could access the frame or even be able to tell if it is not sufficiently supported. Still, far better to have an inspection than not. Thanks for all you do to serve RVers!
I have heard so many stories about new RVs having problems and spend more time in the shop than on the road. We were fortunate to find a used 2006 23’ travel trailer and everything worked real well in it. We have enjoyed it for 5 years and it is still going strong.
Well happy Friday Ms Liz...Great video as always. I too have a Grand Design that I bought in Sept of 22. I don't have any structural issues just a few trim repairs that I did myself. So far all is good but I am not rolling down the road every month. I believe that most RVs made after 2015 are of less quality in build and parts. The industry started to cut corners for profit and it shows in the poor build quality. I think the way you did your rig is the best way. Buy used and upgrade the systems as needed. Safe travels my dear...
I am so sorry they are having problems. I bought my GD Reflection in 2017 (pre COVID and pre buy-out by Winnebago) and have not had any issues except those I created as a rookie 5th wheel owner.
That's awesome you got one of the good ones. Thanks for saying so! I had two brand new 2020 Grand Design fifth wheels. They were not problem free but I loved them both. I think GD has gone downhill since then. Happy travel to you and hope your rookie days are behind you!
@LizAmazing I agree. I am not seeing good stuff coming from them and now RV Miles reported they (GD) are laying people off. BTW... I think I met you in 2017 at Tom Sawyer RV park in West Memphis. You were walking and stopped to visit. I had no clue who you were at that time 😅
Bought a 2012 Tiffin PHAETON CLASS A in 2012. Still have it and even though a new RV sounds nice, we keep up our 2012. We know what we have and repairs and cosmetic repairs are still less costly than buying a new one which would cost in excess of 500, 000. Even buying a pre-owned is unknown- I would rather keep ours.This video was scary and I feel terrible for this lovely couple.
I bought a new TT from grand design pre covid. It was slapped together back then. The support was crap for anyone that was full time. It was always "take it back to the dealer and they will fix it in 6-9 weeks". That is not acceptable when you are currently 2000 miles from the dealer and living in the trailer. They eventually sent a mobile mechanic that screwed up things even worse. Then GD said "well you should have brought it to the dealer". GD is just like the rest of them, rake in the cash and doesn't care after you buy.
Wow. Grand Design seems to have reputation of quality. My wife & I have still a few years away from retirement/new RV, so hopefully their engineers figure the problem out and correct it in the future... and the couple is made whole again. Not much is more frustrating. Thanks Liz.
Yes, so sad that when they ordered it in Nov 2021 GD already knew about the problem...but still it was not fixed. Hoping changes comes soon to GD. Thanks for watching.
We have 2019 Rockwood built in 2018 and are having tons of issues that we should not have. The person we are talking to at Forest River is putting all the blame on us for roof issue when they used the wrong screws. They were too short & wrong type self tapping metal screws for wood does not work. Our sink is falling off so many other stupid problems it is annoying & Rockwood was supposed to be the better one. Now you are hearing that they have been having issues. I think all that were built 2020 & up probably are not built as well due to the work force. We didn't think about that when we bought ours as it was built in 2018 but the RV industry must have started to change prior to that. Our 2005 RV had no workmanship issues we just out grew it. It is sad that these are not regulated more or are built better.
We bought a brand new Keystone Cougar 357UMR fifth wheel. When we did the walk through, I noticed some very small things that needed fixing (screw plugs, top kitchen island drawer wouldn’t close, and a couple other minor things). I requested they fix all this before we took possession, they did. When we went to bring it home, the left front landing gear wouldn’t retract fully. Turns out it was bent just enough to prevent it from retracting. They said we could take it & bring it back once the part was in, but we opted to just leave it since we had time before our first planned trip. When we finally got it home, we realized the kitchen slide outlets weren’t working. Since they’re inverted outlets and we have the 600i-L solar package, they SHOULD work without being connected to shore power. This slide included the refrigerator, which is a 12 volt and should work just on battery power, but it wasn’t. I checked all other inverted outlets in our rig and they all worked, so it was just something with this slide area. We brought it back and they fixed it, or so we/they thought. Got it home and within a day, it wasn’t working again. Brought it back to the dealer a second time and they ended up re-wiring it and now it works great. Then, we were on a 5 night trip to the BWCA with a stop in Grand Marais, MN. Got into our spot and went to extend the slides and the bedroom slide would go off center and stop. Called Keystone & they were “closed for inventory” [it was Friday-early afternoon], so no help. Called Lippert as it is a Schwintek slide mechanism-that individual couldn’t help as he had no idea where the controller for it would be located. The young gal we’ve been working with in the service dept at our local dealer gave us a 1-800 tech line. Spoke with a young man there and he knew exactly what to do and walked us through it. Still could not get it to extend properly and was told we’d need to bring it in to our dealer. So I spent those 5 nights having to crawl over my hubby, 2 dogs, and 2 cats! 😂 (I can see the humor now) Our dealer tried to fix it once we got back, but realized the mechanism needed replacing. So they ordered the parts and we took it home since we’d already had another trip planned before it could be repaired. They fixed it and it is now working just fine. The teeth on the glides were so chewed up you would have thought it was several years old and not brand new! We’ve also had a couple other not-so-minor-but-not-so-major issues happen and they are working to fix them. Fortunately, Keystone has honored they’re warranty for our rig and we have paid ZERO out-of-pocket for these repairs. Our dealer’s service and parts people have been fantastic! Been having issues with our solar, too, and working to get that corrected. Have had 2 other Keystone rigs and never had issues, but things happen, whether new or old. And, yes, I believe the pandemic put many, if not all, manufacturers in a pickle and they put profit over product quality (which they always touted before) and it’s now biting them in the arse.
I happen to have friends who have a GD travel trailer that was supposedly made extra robustly in order to live in it. The trailer is 7 years old and no major problems. I will say that they are about to replace the awning, because the material started to deteriorate over the past year.
Yes, I've heard the older GD's are better. I've had neighbors with 2017 Grand Design fifth wheels, very happy with the quality. Thanks for your comment.
Grand Design uses pinch rolling for their sidewalls and still use Luan backer. Their floors are OSB. At the very fundamental level they are not using best practice. Grand Design has an outstanding marketing department that has people repeating the line "Grand Design builds quality RVs!", and historically they have been good about getting replacement warranty parts sent to owners instead of making them wait 4 months for a dealer repair. But, IMO, their actual construction is lower mid tier at best. ---- The rig in the video is stunning, one of my all time favorite fifth wheels. BUT, when I looked at it, my UNTRAINED eye saw the kitchen was elevated above the frame, the kitchen was full of very heavy equipment (island, fridge, stove, TON of cabinets, microwave, TWO LARGE SLIDES, etc) yet the aluminum skeleton that was supposed to hold all of that up and what it was tied to just didn't seem beefy enough. I'm not surprised it is all failing. I'm so sorry for the couple in the video, AND for all the other 390RK Solitude owners out there. Grand Design needs to come up with an over engineered solution to make these owners whole, and eat whatever cost it takes to make it right. THAT will make GD look incredible.
Yes indeed. Changes need to happen. As you may know, I used to own a brand new GD Solitude. I'm still a member of that floorplan page (310GK) on Facebook. The comparison between the two pages is significant. SO MANY folks on the 390 page selling or mentioning problems. Very sad. Thanks for watching.
OMG, perfect timing for me and finding this video. I was getting ready to purchase this same Grand Design unit and now I'm contacting the dealer and cancelling the deal. I could have been in the same position as these folks and I'm not in the mood to lose over $100,000. So thank you very much for this video. I will look at something else out there that will serve my needs.
I watch a lot of RV videos. I'm thinking a lot of people don't watch videos or read forums because there are so many horror stories. As you said even an inspection may not help because some problems don't develop on a new unit until it has been down the road. I would only buy used but only after an inspection. Liz you are a force for good. Knowledge is power.
Yes it is very important to have even a new RV inspected but the inspector needs to be very familiar with the brand that your buying and all it idiosyncrasies. We got an inspector but he was used to TTs and cheaper fifthwheels that when he looked at ours he was enamored and missed a lot of stuff. As soon as I got it home I spent the next two weeks fixing things that should of bee caught!
Oh no. And I'm not sure an inspector would find the structural issues with the one in this video. Still, it's a good idea to get an inspection. Thanks for watching and for your wise words.
An inspector should be doing their homework before going out to the RV. When I take an inspection my price reflects time to review the RV I am inspecting so I understand the make and model. I’m sorry your experience was not satisfactory. Next time look for an experienced inspector that is certified through NRVIA.
We currently have a similar set of problems with a big Jayco 334rts. We too found problems with the Dealer's repairs. Hope you are able to get the problems resolved.
Another great educational video to assist potential new RV buyers avoid being taken advantage of. Liz you are a very caring and compassionate person. Your videos are always educational and sincere. You are AMAZING. Great video and Great content 👍 Thank you for the great service that you are to the RV world.
I bought a new Sierra 40" some 11 years ago. It didn't have a lot of trouble, but the main drain never ever worked, it always seeped. 6 tries to get it fixed, one last time they had it 5 months and it still leaked. I sold it 1 year ago, don't miss it.
I have heard the last couple years one of the big problem is they pay by the piece when manufacturing instead of by the hour. So there is incentive to rush through the builds. The manufacturer would rather pay for repairs instead of doing it right the first time. Sad situation. Maybe with sales slowing way down the manufacturers will slow down and do quality work vs quantity.
I have a pre-winnebago Grand Design, but 10 months old from someone who had already gone through it and corrected the problems. I sent pictures back to a VP at Grand Design of all the stupid work I found because of the RV industry in the way of their quality control is, I’ve really thought about getting out of the RV and just buying a vacation home after six years. Recently, we had an electrical fire underneath one of the slides one morning and almost burned through a propane line. It was electrical he caused.
Thank you for the information Liz! I've been to that campground in Welches! You might like Goldendale one day, it's beautiful in a different way. Have fun and stay away from PDX!
We purchased a 2022 new forest river ceder creek and have problems. I was told they make all campers so fast and expect the dealer to fix all the problems when you find them. The biggest problem is dealers won't repair your camper if you dont get it from them.
Hi Liz! We love your channel. Especially that you’re not afraid to share the good,the bad, and the ugly! We’re headed to glacier in a few days too! How long will you be there?
We bought a brand new 2017 GD RL27 5th wheel from Blue Dog RV in Post Falls ID. Amazingly enough we still own the rig! The repair list on this thing is unbelievable! Thank goodness we have a local RV repair man 15 minutes from our home who was able to do the warranty work. If it had gone into an RV dealer for the repairs we probably would not have seen our 5th wheel for the entire first year! We actually thought of trading it in thinking we bought a lemon. However, our RV repairman said our rig is so much better than the other new RV’s being currently manufactured. What a scary thought! As far as Grand Design they did pay for the repairs when it was under warranty. Two of our three slides are Swintek. That brand of slide should only be used on “maybe” a lightweight wardrobe slide. We have definitely had our problems with those slides! We love going camping at the beach and up in the Sierra’s in our 5th wheel and would not trade the outdoor experience for anything else.
Yay, so glad you are making your camper work for you! Blue Dog in Post Falls did the repairs on my GD fifth wheel. I was not entirely happy, but that's another story. Yes, it is quite frightening to know how they are just slapping these things together these days. Thanks for watching ,and for your comment.
Heck we bought a $500,000 Newmar Dutch Star ⭐️ NEW in January 2023-and we had a ton of BIG issues immediately-That shouldn’t be the case at all-And I don’t want to hear the excuses of an earthquake going down the road-This stuff at $500,000 should be built for that -Things falling apart immediately is not the earthquake it is just poor quality 🤷♀️🤯🤬
I can't stop thinking about what happened with your Dutch Star. If you are interested in sharing your story in a video, send me an email. liz@lizamazing.com We can't let the RV industry get away with this! Thanks Mary.
You spent 500K on something that probably costs a TON to drive, when it comes to gas prices....and has all those issues.....I spent 467K for a 2,100 square foot, 5 bedroom, 1 and 1/2 bath house in Utah.....and have had no issues whatsoever.
Next time maybe try a 'Condominium at Sea.' It's like you and 200 other couples buy a condo aboard an ocean liner, and the owners association decides on the ports of call.
Good honest feedback. Thank you! The way I'm seeing things in the rv industry, it almost appears that if you purchased a used 2018 or 2019 unit, you're probably going to get a higher quality unit with less issues... Comments?
I've heard this story before. My brother had travel trailer that had to go back the manufacture due to a design flaw that could not be repaired. When they offer him a full refund towards another trailer he made a step up. That trailer had a slide out water leak that was unable to be fixed... when stored and it rained it would flood the trailer... he gave up on camping after that one. I've got folks in my FMCA club that have pages of problems with their new rigs. One had to go from the west coast back east for major repairs at the factory! Almost half million dollars and pages of repairs. I've got a 2013 class A gasser with a few structual "issues" and thought about moving up to a new DP in a few years. I at the point that I will keep what I've got in place of going with the unknown. I think the only way to clean this up is do like the yachting world. No loan without a survey. Could you image what would happen if banks or cash buyers said - no deal without an inspection. Perhaps they would should stop putting out substandard products.
Liz this is a great subject for your youtube channel and I hope these folks get some relief, it is such a shame and every new rv owners nightmare. What a disaster, Grand Design should just replace the rv. I will never buy another Grand Design, they're reputation is ruined. We're having significant slide problems on our GD Imagine XLS 22 MLE. In May one side got stuck in and refused to budge. Via a GD forum I belong to, I found that the slide parts manufactured in a specific date range are defective and Lippert offers a complete repair kit and will pay freight and labor. I opened a ticket with Lippert. Dealer service ignored my findings, ordered parts from GD via Warranty and delivered what they said was a complete rebuild. Now, 6 weeks later, we discover the dealer only repaired 1 side of the slide and we're now having problems with the other side. Of course we are, they're defective parts! Dealer has used the rest of the parts on other repairs, warranty won't pay for any more as it was supposed to have been completely repaired in June. Contacted GD, they won't get involved as it's a 'dealer issue'. Trying to work the Lippert ticket, they understand what's going on, unsure if they will honor TSB now as dealer repaired one side. Really don't want to work with the dealer any more! Regardless of the parts defect, I also think that the slide itself is too big and heavy for the system. Another design flaw, not so grand!! Sorry this is so long.
Thanks so much for your comment! I almost bought an Imagine before I bought my Reflection. So frustrating with your issue!!! I hope you get this resolved soon. And don't be sorry about your comment being long. Your words are sure to help others! Thanks again.
Liz - I enjoyed your video. We had purchased brand new Montana 5th (over $100,000) and had constant electrical problems as well as some structural issues with it. With the amount of money that people pay for these RV's the RV industry needs to step up their game and offer a much better warranty for these vehicles!!!
Yes indeed! I hope this video causes them to wake up and step up their game! So sorry you had problems with your Montana. Hope all that is behind you now.
Bought a 2022 new shasta and the awning fell on me knocking me to my knees they weld came Apart. On this new unit beem a week still waiting to have it fixed Bought at ron hoovers Georgetown tx
I’ve had my Grand Design since April 2021 and not a single major issue. A couple minor ones that I fixed myself nothing that you wouldn’t find in any RV at any price.
The main issues with GD is the use of Lippert frames and axles! These structures are built to minimum standards and strength requirements. If your in the market for a new RV, do not purchase a unit that utilizes Lippert frames and axles. More RV’ers are experiencing major structural problems with these frames especially near the pin box. As always, before you sign on the dotted line make sure you get a quality inspection report from a NRVTA certified inspector so you have peace of mind in the unit that you’re purchasing!
LMAO! Lippert axles are used in every major brand except 3. Those being companies like Airstream, which cost more than a house for a cramped up tube. LOL! Or you can jump onto a Luxe or SpaceCraft and pay anywhere from 300 to 400k for their entry level rigs. I do agree about the inspection though, although that will have zero bearing on a Frame issue as the frame issues happen after some miles are put on them. By the way, I live in a Grand Design and haul it all over the country with zero issues. What's your experience? Which rig do you own?
Lippert Components buys up every competitor as soon as the competitor starts making money. They practically have a monopoly on the RV industry. I live in Elkhart county and probably know at least 5 people that worked on this particular unit. The problem is not with the employees who build the units but the engineers who design them. Employees bring up flaws that they notice and management tells them to just build it to specs.
One of my favorite TH-cam channels bought this same 5th wheel trailer new, to live in while building their house. In less than 3 weeks they had similar problems as your guests. They were not moving it at all. But they had to get the DA involved and it went back and they were made whole. Thanks for letting people know.
Your looking at a money pit that can never be filled ,ever ,plastic , formaldehyde off gassing ,a nightmare to move ,lot rent ,fuel costs , insurance ,pumping costs ,heating , electric ,a 150 k truck to pull the monstrosity.depreciation .if something breaks the company wont fix it saying its not covered .and could take 😂up to a year to get to it .
Wife and I are on our 3rd camper. 1976 Starcraft, 1991 Wilderness and 2003 Sierra.All purchased used. 1st one was a travel trailer, 2nd and 3rd fifth wheels. Have had excellent luck with all. Our current unit is a 2003 Sierra. Love it. This season is our 17 year with the Sierra. Have replaced the water pump and fridge. All else working great and as designed. Yes, I have heard some horror stories regarding new RV's, especially ones build during or after the pandemic. It is sad when people spend $ on new and have issues.
Excellent video and informative piece. So frustrating to pay so much for so much initial aggravation. Until we stop purchasing these rigs in such high quantities, things won’t change. Why would they?
Hi Liz, I just watched your follow up from this video and I have to Thank you for taking on the Challenge. We purchased a brand new Forest River Apex Ultra lite. After our first camping trip, discovered the shower pan was broken to the extent you could put your finder in the hole when you pushed on the crack. The bathroom door was beginning to split, the Fire exit window sounded like there was broken glass in the track and would not open. The cabinet wall in the kitchen on the end had so many staples in it, it would not stay fastened when lifting the side counter. There were scratches on the counters and the outside grill cabinet was pieced together with the broken parts. We emailed the Dealer, Campers Inn, Selma NC and provided the list of items we felt needed to be repaired or replaced. They were happy to put us on the schedule for Warranty work to be completed. They explained they would order all the parts and call us when everything was in. They did call about a month later so we drove the 1.5 hours to drop it off for the repairs. At this point we only had the camper 2 months. It sat with Campers INN for 5 months. When we had enough and wanted our camper back after multiple attempts to receive a progress report, we let them know what day we would be there to collect our Camper and tow it home. Let me tell you, we had more problems AFTER we picked it up because the Service Center did more damage attempting to repair. From scraping the ceiling and removing the paint and texture to reinstalling the valance over the window and window shade on backward and upside down. The bathroom door was replaced but missing parts to keep it secure. The kitchen cupboard wall side, well we just removed it and replaced it ourselves. There were more staples in it but not attached to anything. The Furrion Fridge went out so we had to order a new thermostat to fix it. The A/C ductwork was kinked and not functioning properly. It’s now been a year and we are still finding things but have the wherewithal to be able to make the repairs on our own. I can tell you that this has been the worst buy we have made. We have owned in the past, a Coleman Pop-up, Keystone 5th Wheel, Newmar Baystar Sport Class A, Monaco Monarch Class A, ALiner Explorer. So, we are not new to RV buying or Camping. I agree there needs to be more Accountability with the Manufacturers and the Dealers. What happened to customer satisfaction!
Oh my goodness! What an ordeal. It does seem to be that you have to be handy to enjoy RV life. Otherwise you lose too much camping time waiting for the dealer. Thanks for sharing your story and I bet you miss that Monaco!
A friend of mine bought a new 5th wheel and when he hit I bump on the hwy it broke a spring on the 3 axle set up which shouldn't be a big deal. But the factory ran the bracket line between the axle and spring. It cut the brake line which left him with no brakes on his huge unit. When I seen it, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The factory repair shop only offered to redo the very poor design.
I was looking into Grand Design because of their customer service reputation. I guess that's all gone out the window! I do know for sure that whatever RV I go with, I will be getting an inspection. I can't believe the structural issues this couple has had to deal with. I hope Grand Design does the right thing and takes care of this couple correctly. Very disappointing!
Just be aware, the inspector can only tell you about what he/she can physically reach without disassembly. The real gremlins may be hiding in the walls or under the floors.
Hi Wendy. Yes, so frustrating, especially since GD knew of the structural problems BEFORE Bob & Louise ordered their fifth wheel. So frustrating! Thanks for watching.
Most 5th wheels have been designed too heavy for the cheap frame that supports them. I'd never buy a trailer RV they are basically junk. Buy a class A medium duty chassis RV and never have an issue. Also there's something to be said for buying an older better built class A RV. The quality of the build in the early 2000s is incredible compared to what's made today. Personally I bought a 2002 National Dolphin 36 foot class A 12k miles in it when I bought it. Incredible quality. Almost a time capsule as it wasn't used much. Been on the road full time 5 years no real serious issues or repairs. And I saved 200k on the price of a new class A
I live in a vacation area and can’t go to the site without seeing at least 20 RV’s of all kinds. I’ll be careful to avoid these as best I can. I don’t want to drive anywhere near one. I had no idea how cheaply made they were. The fact that they let you drive around with an RV that wasn’t fit to be on the road. It’s unconscionable of them to put many lives in danger. Unbelievable.
These RV's are built very quickly. I was watching a program about Amish working in the modular housing market, they also build RV's. They work at a very fast pace so I can see how some things would be forgotten or left out.
I am in my second GD. I just had to weld two slide brackets on my Reflection. Grand Design needs new management from the ground up in every aspect of the buisness. Even their customer service has an attitude. I feel bad for those people. GD will keep them in their shop time and time again or try to pass the buck. Good job in reporting this Liz. Again after all these years no one at Grand Design understands inspection and welding procedures before you build.
Whew, it is so frustrating for sure, Donald! I've owned two Grand Design fifth wheels, bought brand new. They had problems but nothing like Bob and Louise are going through. I hope change happens soon in GD, as you say, from the ground up. Thanks for watching.
@@marybourgeois5235 It’s not so much the welders. It’s a poor frame design. And , the steel from China is inferior! Biggest problem. I am a welder so I know. 👍😁
I have a 2017 395M Grand Design Momentum and its been perfect. Of course this is before the pandemic. The only issue I have had so far is with the suburban water heater, can't believe they used plastic instead of brass. But that's on suburban.
This goes to show you that newer isnt always better. Liz, i know you had an age range in mind for when you bought your Alpha. I totally agree w your thinking. Too bad these poor people have this problem. It sounds like a significant one too 😢
We have a grand design ,a 2018 and are have floor sagging problems in the kitchen area also. And now a slide out is acting up in the dinning area . We had the insurance company come out and they are saying it’s a manufacturer defect and that they don’t cover that. It’s out of warranty so the repairs are all on us. It’s a shame that grand design is putting out such shoddy work for the price one pays for these things.
This is very bad news for the RV industry as a whole. Sounds like they knew about this issue before letting the units leave the lots. Thank you for sharing. Everyone stay safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
Liz look up "RV Lemon law" = this is how you get a RV manufacturer to buy back a RV that is a lemon. see "Class A Motorhome Lemon Buyback Irritated Traveler" video (this couple explains how they got their RV manufacture to buy back their lemon RV) 🍋🍋🍋🍋🍋 (there are also lemon laws for cars too)
@@jansmith3158 It must be noted that while all states have lemon laws for cars, in most states those laws do NOT apply to Recreational Vehicles. So, to everyone reading this: _Do your research_ and learn which states have lemon laws that also cover RVs. And note that even in states that include RVs within their lemon laws, they may not cover all kinds of RVs. For example, California -- normally a pretty consumer-friendly state -- has a lemon law that covers all motor vehicles, including RVs. But only RVs with an engine! I.e., motorhomes. So trailers are not covered. 😠 (Which really sucks, because trailers represent the vast majority of RVs purchased.) So do your research beforehand. 🙂
They need to contact their state attorney general about this. They are there to assist you in this
They might have to do that. Thank you.
Grand Design has taken a big dump. I would never ever buy one...
I've had two brand new ones. Don't think I'd by another one at this point. Thanks for watching!
We purchased a 2023 Coachmen Crosstrail 21XG. Take it home 6/23/23 and water leaking out of a light switch on roof. Turned around and brought it back during rain. Pick up next day all fixed. Drive around a bit and we leave 7/1 to Texas. Fridge not working, still. A/C loud when we arrived in Tennessee while plugged in. Water hooked up. In morning water on floor. Drive to Texas and nothing in RV is working. Back and forth with dealer and coachmen. 7/8 we cut vacation short and drive to Indiana as Coachmen said bring here and we will fix. Arrive Monday at 1 am. Called for a place to park it and hotel was lovely and let us park in a bus spot. Get to Coachmen up road at 9:30. They put us in hotel for 4 nights while they worked on: replaced banquette(falling apart), installed cushions so they were not falling around, repaired overhead as it was loose from water roof leak, no a/c-replaced that, solar panels, Go Power, Unit under that, sealed air coming in between RV and can that was getting us sick-was never sealed. Repaired loose wall panels, shower wall panel buckled, metal vent cover bent, drawer bowed, screws sticking out and were removed, bed had no trim on bottom and husband cut hand-they put trim on, etc. we leave and no fridge they will ship to dealer where we purchased. Solar unit and Go power unit start flashing on way home 7/14. As if today still no fridge and waiting to get solar units poked at as they are blank.🤬😭 haven’t been able to use it since we bought it!😭😭
Thay cheapen up the campers one time thay where good whith smart peaple today thay put low rate kids out of school whith engineering skills green horns and thay make a lot of mistakes because thay pay them less money 💰 than the good engineering teams that are good so thare campers are poorly made and very unsafe so I say keep away from this grand design campers you are paying to much today for a poorly made product
Annie, this an epic story! If you'd like to be interviewed to help bring change to the RV industry (and hopefully get the manufacturer to do right by you), email me at liz@lizamazing.com. I am planning a follow up to this video now. Thanks for sharing and wishing you best of luck no matter what path you choose.
Grand Design is def in decline but so are others and Lippert is the common link on the frame failure issues.
Best Advice: Buy NOTHING built during the Pandemic. The absolute worst quality control in the history of our industry. Unskilled unmotivated workers. Corporations that just wanted to get their product out at any cost, regardless of the labor problems. Wouldn’t even consider anything built from 2020 to 2022, and with reporting like you’re doing Liz, these companies are going to get held accountable for their shady business practices. Keep up the great work, Liz.!😀
These are engineering problems. Has nothing to do with the assembly by the workers.
@@fraudsarentfriends4717Sounds like both poor engineering and indifferent employees.
OUR IS PRE PANDEMIC AND NOT GOOD..
Well said man. Well said.
Exactly. Same with trucks, cars, etc. Do not buy anything around the plandem-ick. QC was shite at best
AGREE WITH YOU! We had the same experience with our New Grand Design Trailer. In the shop so many times we stopped counting. The issue was with refrigerator install ( not actual refrigerator) , cabinets falling apart, left bed issue, shower broken twice. Our unit was in the shop more than we used it. We got rid of it. Our friends bought a new Jayco and had similar type of repairs with their unit in shop for months at a time. I DONT TRUST THAT THERE IS ANY QUALITY ANYMORE!
I’ve watched several of your videos, and it’s unbelievable how many RV’ers have so much aggravation, chaos, turmoil, and grief. And not to mention the massive amounts of money they spend and spend and spend. Apparently many must be fortunate to have an abundant supply of money. Life is to short. I’m 67, and I’ve been all about simplicity and happiness for a long time now. But that’s me.
I was in the market to buy new and with all the horror stories I was reading, I didn’t pull the trigger. So glad I didn’t. The RV market took advantage of the huge demand around 2020 and just slapped them together. I don’t know how they’re still in business with all the repairs! Shame on them!
I'm with you on this. Thanks for your comment, and for watching.
My wife and I have been camping for 45 years and I’ve owned 9 of these pieces of S(“‘T 5th wheels and diesel pushers. They are all junk there’s no getting around it. When you buy one of these the first thing you have to ask yourself is how much money you want to lose. The only way you’re going to get your money’s worth with these camper’s is keep it and run the wheels off of it and you have to know how to fix and work on them. Because once you pay for it and pull it off the lot dealers don’t even want to talk to you. It doesn’t matter if you buy a $5000 pop-up or a $2.2 million motor home there all junk and they all fall apart.
That is exactly my story I'm now driving a 2020 F350 Lariat diesel, that I bought new, but NO RV because of this foolishness. A car company would have been sued out of business if they built junk like this and sold it for 100k dollars.
I have a 23 foot forest river B class on a Ford transit no slides and I just drive around with no problems now it’s just me and my little Maltese dog if I had an adult with me it would be harder but I still wouldn’t cyst on an RV without slides This is been an issue ongoing forever, and my dad even has a bounder, and the bounder was almost bulletproof. It just would take the family everywhere and work great it just didn’t have hardly any failures until one day. The slide wouldn’t come in and out and my dad worked with it and worked with it. Different members of the campground worked with it and my dad had to end up calling someone to come out that RV repair person that comes out to your RV and he said you got have a new slide motor, there was failure in the motor itself and also it needed some fluid hydraulic fluid so both of those things had to be done. My dad spent just about 3000 that day on getting the slides fixed and we only went about four hours away and we had the grandkids and everybody with us in, we were pretty taken by that bill but nevertheless, and I just said to myself no I will get a RV with no slides and I still to this day. I have always found new RVs with no slides and I’ll tell you what it’s a whole lot less problematic. It’s a whole lot warmer in the winter because you don’t have that big wall With all that gasket around it and if it rains and you have to pull that slide and you got water in your RV and so I just prefer not to have any slides and you can find them you just have to look and the salesman are always trying to sell your slides but what they don’t tell you is when you have a slide you got a big hole with no structural support That makes a difference you know so when I buy a old Safari or I buy a bus or I buy this one I bought hi I don’t have slides and I might take out some furniture just to have some more room but it’s worth it I mean I don’t want to have structural problems and I have never had them but that’s just something I gave up to set extra room inside to be able to drive off simpler and reliably
I heard the same thing. Glad I didn't either. What a hot mess
Our 2022 Keystone Alpine 3790FK frame failed in just 5 months. The I beams rolled under and bent over 6 inches at the axles so bad that we had to abandon it in Illinois. Keystone blamed us by trying to say we had to have been hit, yet there was no body damage. Then they said that we had to have been hit at "axle level". They refused to honor the warranty and wouldn't/couldn't repair the damage. The front kitchen slide (Schwintek) failed after only 5 in and out cycles. The dealership determined that it had been built incorrectly and ordered a new slide, but before the new slide had come in, the frame had failed. We had put less than 10k miles on it and it was our home. We didn't get back any of the 11k down payment and lost part of the "extended warranty" and GAP insurance as well. NEVER AGAIN with any Keystone product!!!!
Wow! That's an incredible story, Scott! Thanks for sharing this! Hope all that is behind you now.
Bought an Alliance Paradigm 340RL. Much better quality construction although all frames are made by the same company
Did you not sue them?
@@LizAmazing Have you heard about GD new 5 year structural warranty, which is retroactive, for those having issues and have already bought one of their RV's. A guy named "Outdoor Jaye" did a video on it 3 days ago. I can email it to you if you can't find it! According to GD, all of the negative media attention (you 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉) was not warranted, because only a minimal amount had serious structural issues 😂😂😂, but the CEO decided to add this warranty anyway!
My wife and I walked away from the literal signing of the paper work just yesterday. We were about to buy a 2020 Keystone residence. But after evaluating the total cost with trade in, site fees also are high here in Canada. It would have cost us around 2700 a month. So instead of doing that, we’re just gonna rent our current house out, and rent an apartment for a couple years.
So glad you took a step back to re-think that. Thanks for your comment, and for watching.
Wise choice!! 👍
Wow, so much money per month.
We bought a new Grande Design in 2018 and anything that could go wrong has gone wrong. Before we ever left the dealership, the air had to be replaced. Will never buy another GD.
@@alkuck9567
Wow ! Fixes before it left the yard !! That was a sign ? I’ll take two . Lol Just kidding… what a pain !😬
Liz, outstanding video about quality of RV today. In 2017, We had our 2008 Prevost at a campground in Florida, (Camping on the Gulf, Miramar, Fl). One of our slide-outs on our 08 Country Coach Prevost wouldn’t retract. I called Prevost and they flew technicians down immediately to repair the slide at no cost to us. They told me they knew they were having issues with certain slides and responded immediately. The quality of the rvs today is very poor. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.
Wow, I've heard good things about Prevost-- and Country Coach. What a great story, Bill. Thanks for sharing. I hope the RV industry makes some much needed changes soon. Thanks for your kind words and have a great weekend.
We need to start writing our congressmen and extend Lemon law coverage to RV's. I've heard so many horror stories like this. Some people spend their life savings on these hoping to use it in retirement. This isn't right.
There are Lemon Laws in some states that cover RVs. But not sure how well they work. Thanks for watching, and I agree, this is not right. Hoping my video helps bring about change.
Only little minor things on my 2022 Grand Design Solitude and they took care of it immediately and shipped out replacement sinks that did not work at 2nd time trying them. Faucets just quit. Vacuum also had an issue and sent a part to fix right away. So far very pleased with Our solitude but do know some of every manufacturer will have issues but it’s how do they take care and fix them for us. I’m very pleased so far!
So happy to hear this, Tom. I was pleased with my brand new Reflection. They sent parts directly to me also, and paid for a mobile tech. The Solitude I had (310GK) had some issues, but nothing like what is going on with the 390RK. Sure hope they get it together. Happy travels to you and thanks for your comment.
91.6K, with all your amazing content…I know 100K is right around the corner! Love your creation. Thank you!
Thanks Bernard, inching closer!
Just a reminder of why I am glad I dont have slides. Make it well and make it simple.
Kind of like Airstreams!!!
Yep! Lots of people are liking not having them. Thanks for being here!
The engineering calculations for most load scenarios are not complex. The problem may be that the design goes from the engineering dept to the “Lets Make it Cheaper” dept where girder specifications are changed to either thinner steel, steel to aluminum, forging to cast, or worst....cross section change from I beam or channel to C section.
I bet you are right about that! Thanks for your comment and for watching.
What engineers? These people make covered wagons.
@@Greatdome99 Engineers...you know...the people who drive trains. But seriously, I agree and believe the frames should be twice as strong as they should be.
Yeah, it sounds like the person who built these companies have long sense gone to Cancun.
Yes..."the beancounters" (Accounting).
We bought our Grand Design two years ago and have had no problems that the fantastic dealership at Harper Camperland (Great Bend, KS) couldn’t fix. They also have their own campground while they do the repairs. It was amazing.
That's awesome! So glad to hear this. Thanks for your comment, and for watching.
You may be one of the lucky ones . Or you just don’t have your unit on the road much ? Good luck ! 😬😁
We bought our Grand Design Momentum at Harper Camperland in Great Bend about 3 years ago and also have had good luck with them.
I also had a 2021 Grand Design and it was perfect until we sold for our Airstream.
Won't say the RV didn't have issues but between me, the dealer and Grand Design we got through them. I'm pretty big on maintenance, so I keep a pretty close eye on things. If you can't do some of the work yourself, I wouldn't get an RV!
Seeing how thousands of potential RV buyers will now hear this horror story, I'm willing to bet it will be cheaper for Grand Design to just tell this couple, "Sorry for all the trouble here's a new replacement trailer." Then you can do the happy follow-up and our collective faith in humanity will be restored!
Yes indeed. But they need to go back to basics and get it together for ALL customers. Thanks for your comment.
These issues are showing up in all the brands using Lippert Chassis. Montana actually has a "crash team" of welders who travel and fix these flaws when found all over the nation.
What makes you think the new one would be any better.
There is not ONE RV on the market that is ever worth the money or time. As soon as people figure that out the better they will be. RV salespeople are more similar to time share salespeople than car sales people.
And the white knight saved the princess and they lived happily ever after.
Right on Liz. RV Manufactures MUST step up. Changing Lanes worked with Grand Design on a new unit. They picked it up and had a few issues. Who in the right mind knowing that they had been doing TH-cam videos about the process wouldn't at least make sure they got a perfect one? To their credit they did show what issues they had. Way back in the day the big three car makers were putting out some way below quality cars. They didn't care. Then Honda and others arrived on the scene and they lost big market share. Maybe we can get Honda to start building RV's. They would own the market. You look at various TH-camrs adding batteries, solar and other electrical equipment and the quality job they do make the rats nest of wiring from the manufacture stick out like the lack of quality it is. Great video and everyone needs to step up the pressure on the manufactures. That couple deserves all their money back!!
They sure do! I'm definitely hoping my video helps to wake up the industry. When spending all that money for a new camper, it better be good! Thanks for watching.
Watching is so easy. Thanks for the hard work you do in providing us with them. Enjoy Montana Liz!!
This is all to common. We traded our 2016 Carbon 5th Wheel for a 2018 Hyperlite toy hauler. My husband didn't want a new one for this reason. I hope you can give us an update on this couple in the future.
I agree. If Honda made an RV (That would shake the industry!) you can bet big money the quality control would be spot on. They would not make anything that has poor engineering or quality. It's called pride of workmanship and engineering.
If a company like Toyota, Honda, Subaru or Lexus ever got into the RV industry, 95% of these shoddy RV companies, Forest River, Keystone, Grand Design, ect., ect....would be out of business in 24 months, guaranteed...
Same as my Jeep bought new all service preformed at a dealership numerous check engine lights. Engine failures Chrysler refused to replace the engine period. Yes, it's still under warranty. Good Luck.
Ugh. So frustrating. Sorry this happened. Hope it all works out for you, and thanks for watching.
I was just in the market for a "new" RV. I have done my research as well as talking to many people regarding the "COVID" models built between 2019 and 2023. I decided to go used so bought a very nice and rarely used 2015 and have been very happy with it so far. The build quality is far superior to what I walked through at the local dealerships....
Yep. The older the better so it seems. Congrats on yours and happy travels.
I did a video on my TH-cam Channel about the nightmare of a Grand Design Reflection 303rls 2021 model. Walls and floor separating. Kitchen sink falling through and drawers flying out on travel day. We got rid of it. We went with a another company and we couldn't be happier. We contacted Grand Design and they wouldn't help. We even went to a Grand Design rally and they told us to let a dealer work on it. They didn't want to see us or our RV at their place in Elkhart. Grand Design RVs are junk.
I have heard a lot of people complain about Grand Design trailers that they bought during the pandemic. I hope this couple are still talking with GD about getting this resolved and I hope your video helps with a resolution. With that said, our 2016 Grand Design Reflection was made very well. Grand Design was formed from former Montana RV leaders. That impressed us when we made our purchase. They then sold to Winnebago and I am wondering if that is a contributor to the decline in manufacturing.
Hi Kathy! Yes, you got a good year for Grand Design. I could tell when I walked into your Reflection it was built better than the Solitude we had at the time. The Solitude was built pre-covid, but they had already cheapened the build. Happy travels to you and Larry!
'Winnebago' and 'quality' and are not often mentioned in the same sentence.
Anything built by Winnebago or Thor owned companies is built cheaply.
It’s the not the pandemic to blame. Grand Design was bought by Winnebago Industries in 2016. Quality has been declining since. Enough of blaming the pandemic. It’s no excuse for putting out junk. They shouldn’t have sold them or been allowed to sell them if they couldn’t build them to proper standards.
@@YachtsOnTheReg7 same goes for Forrest river. Too bad grand design was on a roll. Like many they sold their souls and it was a downward slide from their.
We have a 2021 Keystone Cougar 368MBI. Went from NY to Tennessee and then up east coast. Midway down the side the header broke and split the siding of my camper. Camping world was baffled. Keystone had them do several measurements. Keystone then said it has to come back. September to March we had a whole new sidewall, structural enhancement and a completely new roof.
I will say Keystone stood behind this and paid every dime. They also went thru and fixed some other punch list items while it was there.
Wow, great story. Thanks for sharing Stephen and wishing you happy travels!
I've been looking at GD, specifically the 370FLS.. but EVERY ONE I've looked at has vastly substandard welds in the structure where you can see them (mainly the passthrough and the front storage. If your paying for a "premium" RV, I expect premium welds, not little burned blobs that won't hold very long.
Yes indeed! I had a brand new Solitude before this. I had quality issues such as the kitchen island collapsing, trim falling off. Very frustrating. Thanks for watching, Kris.
@@LizAmazing been watching since before you broke your hand. Keep up the great content, and hopefully we'll see you out on the road next year!
@@LizAmazing It's becoming clear that GD is a company to avoid. I've read that, besides the Canadian brands (Escape, Bigfoot and Oliver) that the best American brands are Outdoors RV and Northwood.
@@YachtsOnTheReg7 add Artic Fox to that list.
That being said, bring your deep pockets.. none of those 3 are cheap brands by far.
I don't disagree with you, but keep in mind that most of the RV industry have their frames built to their specs by Lippert. So, going from one brand to another may not exactly resolve the poor craftsmanship issue that you're referring. All I can say is do your research.
Did I understand correctly that they knew beforehand that the model they wanted to buy had a structural design issue? Then why did they go through with the purchase? They assumed the problem had been solved but did not actually investigate that it had been fixed. Is that what they said, or did I misunderstand?
No you got that right. It's completely logical to think that if GD knew about the serious structural issues that they would fix it...instead of keep right on building them! These are relatively high dollar trailers and I feel for Bob and Louise. They did not get what they paid for. Shame on Grand Design! And thanks for watching.
We have a niche brand RV, Black Series, and I'm thankful for that decision. Everything more of less just works. We do have an LED light strip that blinks randomly if it is set to blue color, but no other faulty parts and we've taken it down to Padre Island (500 miles each way) several times just in the past 2 months for camping on the beach. The HQ21 is a sturdy beast.
Wow, I'd never heard of them. Thanks for letting me know, and for watching.
I regret not getting an inspection on my Jayco 2021 used but luckily we bought an extended warranty- oh boy - my gray water tank lever seized and broke - water pump valve was leaking from natulis - fridge had a blown fuse and non working fans - bad ac gasket - all repaired and we’re doing great but many people who have Grand Designs who are having this issue and much much more -
Yes, it sure sounds like it. And unfortunately I don't think an inspection would have caught this type of structural issue. An inspector is not going to be able to get to the frame to inspect it, unfortunately. Thanks for watching and glad your issues are behind you now. Happy travels!
More good and real info. Thanks Liz! I hope they're able to get their beautiful RV repaired correctly and soon.
Yes, me, too! Thanks for your kind words, Charlene!
It may soon be time to submit a claim to their insurance company. I'm sure their insurer doesn't want a client traipsing around the country with a rig that may fall apart on the highway.
So we have had our Grand Design 390 RKR since December 2019. We have had minor issues with it but overall we’ve had a great camp. I’m sorry these people are bad issues. However, we have had no issues with Grand Design per se only lazy days where we bought it from because I repair that was done it done correctly. You have to watch pay you have repairs done with.
Hi Liz. I think the quality of a lot of things took a back set since COVID started and it seems to be the easy excuse. I hear of a lot of issues with the shwintech slides and if I was buying a new unit I’d avoid them like the plague. I hope your friends get some help and satisfaction soon. Keep well and stay safe.
Thanks Martin. Yep, I think the RV problems started before Covid, probably around 2015. Things started to go South after that. I don't think Bob & Louise had a problem with the slide, it was more the floor sinking making the slide inoperable. Thanks for being here!
Sorry to hear of your experience, but we bought a brand new 2022 Solitude with a rear bedroom. We’ve had zero problems. I hope your troubles get fixed.
Thanks for sharing this Deborah, so glad you Solitude is doing well! Happy travels.
Hi Liz! L 8:40 ove your stories. My wife and I have a Keystone Laredo we have had problems. Our trim coming off , the awning coming off. We got a washer dryer combo and the drain goes to the black tank. We had a mess. The tank is not fixed yet.
Oh no. So sorry about this. Thanks for sharing and I hope all that will be behind you soon.
I worked in RV sales once. If there was a problem unit, we would always say it must have been built on a Friday or Monday.
Yeah, I heard that in the car industry, too! Thanks for watching and see you in the next video.
WOW! SPEECHLESS! Thank you for sharing this valuable information! They're off our list👍
Good to know, Val. They definitely have gone downhill. Hoping this video causes the RV industry to wake up. Thanks for watching and enjoy the rest of your weekend.
@@LizAmazing Thank you for making this video Liz👍 You always give us your best!
My wife and I purchased a 375-RES IN April 2021. This unit has the same structure as the 390 with the living room up in the back. Same body, same slide configuration etc…
Right now, it is Florida and I hav sheen very diligent in checking the slide structures! After seeing this, I will really get in there and check.
Thanks for posting this Liz.
Oh goodness. I hope the news is good. Thanks for watching and happy (and safe) travels.
great channel liz. you're right on the money about rv life. i'm a gambler who lived in an rv' for 7 years, parking at race tracks and casinos wherever i went in addition to the usual - walmart, truck stops, etc.. as you've stated numerously, rv life is what you make it.
My 2019 imagine had 20 to 30 problems a really piece of junk! Bearing went out downtown Atlanta 22 hours to fix $1000 tow bill!! I would never buy from then again. I sold mine asap
Wow, sorry to hear this Bob. Thanks for your comment.
We have a 2022 GD Reflection (travel trailer) as well as friends (theirs is a 2021)…neither of us have had ANY significant problems, thank goodness! We are super satisfied with our trailers. It’s so unfortunate to hear what these folks have gone through. GD needs to make it right for them. But we do believe that it’s an industry issue across the board for sure. Happy travels!
Hi Jane! So glad yours is doing good! This problem seems to be in particular to that floorplan. But it certainly is frustrating that GD knew about it BUT continued to build them flawed. Hope all that changes for the better soon. Thanks for watching and happy travels.
I too have empathy for this couple's experience, but in fairness to GD, and for benefit of those now shopping RVs...we also have a 2021 GD (Transcend: entry level of the GD offerings), purchased new that has been excellent. I had a premature seam failure in the awning (out of warranty period!!), and the awning manufacturer, encouraged by an advocate at GD, comped us a whole new fabric, which I can install. Fair enough.
Also, I had a brush with a landscape boulder in an RV Park roadway on a trip in July, and my RV (independent) repair shop owner said...lucky it's basic "sticks & tin" (actually aluminum siding, nowadays) construction. If it were the fiberglass construction, it would be much more expensive to repair from a similar accident.
So, do your own research, figure out what's most important to YOU in an RV,realize there are compromises to be made in any purchase, and assemble a toolkit and learn basic RV maint/repair.
hello guys I was talking to a passenger yesterday. and I was telling them whether new or used. you should get an inspection by a independent inspector. that not affiliated with the dealership or seller. good luck. it seems like there's no quality control anymore. such a shame. k matthews
There needs to be a vast improvement across All brands to improve quality & quality control!! And customer service!! I have been RV-less since spring of 2022 . . . I Do want another, but am Very hesitant considering the quality issues across the board!!
Yes, indeed. I sure hope my video helps wake them up! Thanks for watching.
I can attest from the travel trailer side of the business is going the same way. My wife and I have an older (late 80's) Airstream that we bought about 5 years ago and have been pretty happy with it. Our trailer hasn't been perfect, but it's never left us stranded or impacted our trip with anything more than small issues. We took a long tour of the west in 2022 and stayed at a few dozen campsites which allowed us to meet other Airstream owners who own newer ones. More than a couple of them told us to hold onto our older Airstream as the new ones aren't built nearly as well. Each owner had stories of either failed electronics, awnings separating from the trailer, garbage left by the factory in inaccessible areas. or multiple rivets popping on the aluminum skin. It was very eye opening to say the least, but very nice people across the board. All people that didn't feel like they had been treated fairly by the industry. I think the industry is at a crossroads.
We bought a new Grand Design Solitude in 2017 and had so many issues from the get go. Every year we had to cancel many camping trips every year since. We had an extended warranty and would have spent way more than we paid for the warranty. Now we are out of warranty and had a water leak by the nautilus unit. So had to pay out of pocket for this. Not sure we want to buy another rv in the future. This year we have not been camping due to health issues so we will see what happens next year. Wish us luck for next year.
Wow, that's crazy Dorothy. I am so sorry. I thought 2017 was a good year for Grand Design. How frustrating. Thanks for your comment and hope you get out here next year. Take care.
What a shame...Shame on Grand Design! I hope this nice couple gets what they are hoping for. Great informative video Liz. Hope you're having a wonderful summer! Safe travels!😎😊
Thanks so much, Wendy. My heart goes out to Bob & Louise. I hope GD gets them taken care of. My summer is great and I am looking forward to Glacier. Have a great weekend!
Yeah, "Grand Design", my ass! More like _Terrible Design!_ 😠
It's especially ironic since the brand's name literally says that their products are well designed. 🙄
Yeah, before I buy anything, I am practically neurotic about researching for months and months. Then, I may actually buy something I don't need, but it's at least of value.
Just bought a new camper month ago already has to go back in the shop believe the inverter isn’t working
Oh no. So annoying. Hope that gets fixed soon. Thanks for watching.
Hope you can do a follow up on this Liz. That's a very unfortunate situation to be in with so much money invested in that new RV. Great video!
Yes indeed. I hope to have some news to share. Stay tuned.
We enjoy you videos and take your advice to heart. You are correct when you advised that manufacturing RV’s after 2007 are not quality built. Never again will we buy GD. They are no better than any other manufacturer.
We lost all our records when we discovered a disconnect of the black tank. Human waste was on all our previous records and our IRS filings. We were audited for our 2018 taxes. Our accountant said ‘this is one for the record’. We couldn’t produce our donations records (which were in the 5 digit category) due to ‘permanent damage due to human waste’. I am not even kidding. I’m sure our audit had IRS and our accounts’ office check off that square on their Bingo card.
Again we appreciate your informed videos packed with first-hand experience from you. Keep up the great work and safe travels 😊
Thank you Liz for putting this information out there. I see brand new RV’s all the time with serious issues right from the start. As an inspector I look for things that appear out of alignment. There are problems when it comes to structure that may not be found right away but there are clues that something is off.
Yeah, I am hoping you would find something like that, but with the underbelly covered up, I am not sure you could access the frame or even be able to tell if it is not sufficiently supported. Still, far better to have an inspection than not. Thanks for all you do to serve RVers!
I have heard so many stories about new RVs having problems and spend more time in the shop than on the road. We were fortunate to find a used 2006 23’ travel trailer and everything worked real well in it. We have enjoyed it for 5 years and it is still going strong.
Well happy Friday Ms Liz...Great video as always. I too have a Grand Design that I bought in Sept of 22. I don't have any structural issues just a few trim repairs that I did myself. So far all is good but I am not rolling down the road every month. I believe that most RVs made after 2015 are of less quality in build and parts. The industry started to cut corners for profit and it shows in the poor build quality. I think the way you did your rig is the best way. Buy used and upgrade the systems as needed. Safe travels my dear...
Hi Tim! Yes, the quality has definitely taken a turn for the worst, and before Covid. Thanks for your comment and Happy Friday to you as well!
I am so sorry they are having problems. I bought my GD Reflection in 2017 (pre COVID and pre buy-out by Winnebago) and have not had any issues except those I created as a rookie 5th wheel owner.
That's awesome you got one of the good ones. Thanks for saying so! I had two brand new 2020 Grand Design fifth wheels. They were not problem free but I loved them both. I think GD has gone downhill since then. Happy travel to you and hope your rookie days are behind you!
@LizAmazing I agree. I am not seeing good stuff coming from them and now RV Miles reported they (GD) are laying people off.
BTW... I think I met you in 2017 at Tom Sawyer RV park in West Memphis. You were walking and stopped to visit. I had no clue who you were at that time 😅
@@selyndanoland6198 No that wasn't me. I didn't hit the road until 2018. I must have a look alike!
Bought a 2012 Tiffin PHAETON CLASS A in 2012. Still have it and even though a new RV sounds nice, we keep up our 2012. We know what we have and repairs and cosmetic repairs are still less costly than buying a new one which would cost in excess of 500, 000. Even buying a pre-owned is unknown- I would rather keep ours.This video was scary and I feel terrible for this lovely couple.
Yes. I agree. It's definitely scary to buy new these days. Thanks for your comment and enjoy that Phaeton!
I bought a new TT from grand design pre covid. It was slapped together back then. The support was crap for anyone that was full time. It was always "take it back to the dealer and they will fix it in 6-9 weeks". That is not acceptable when you are currently 2000 miles from the dealer and living in the trailer. They eventually sent a mobile mechanic that screwed up things even worse. Then GD said "well you should have brought it to the dealer". GD is just like the rest of them, rake in the cash and doesn't care after you buy.
Wow. Grand Design seems to have reputation of quality. My wife & I have still a few years away from retirement/new RV, so hopefully their engineers figure the problem out and correct it in the future... and the couple is made whole again. Not much is more frustrating. Thanks Liz.
Yes, so sad that when they ordered it in Nov 2021 GD already knew about the problem...but still it was not fixed. Hoping changes comes soon to GD. Thanks for watching.
@@LizAmazing You're welcome. Good info. Keep us up to date.
We have 2019 Rockwood built in 2018 and are having tons of issues that we should not have. The person we are talking to at Forest River is putting all the blame on us for roof issue when they used the wrong screws. They were too short & wrong type self tapping metal screws for wood does not work. Our sink is falling off so many other stupid problems it is annoying & Rockwood was supposed to be the better one. Now you are hearing that they have been having issues. I think all that were built 2020 & up probably are not built as well due to the work force. We didn't think about that when we bought ours as it was built in 2018 but the RV industry must have started to change prior to that. Our 2005 RV had no workmanship issues we just out grew it. It is sad that these are not regulated more or are built better.
Holy smokes!!! I hope that this couple got their RV fixed.
I know it. So scary, Kim.
@@LizAmazing will you be following up with this couple?
@@kimkrebs451 I will!
@@LizAmazing thanks
We bought a brand new Keystone Cougar 357UMR fifth wheel. When we did the walk through, I noticed some very small things that needed fixing (screw plugs, top kitchen island drawer wouldn’t close, and a couple other minor things). I requested they fix all this before we took possession, they did. When we went to bring it home, the left front landing gear wouldn’t retract fully. Turns out it was bent just enough to prevent it from retracting. They said we could take it & bring it back once the part was in, but we opted to just leave it since we had time before our first planned trip. When we finally got it home, we realized the kitchen slide outlets weren’t working. Since they’re inverted outlets and we have the 600i-L solar package, they SHOULD work without being connected to shore power. This slide included the refrigerator, which is a 12 volt and should work just on battery power, but it wasn’t. I checked all other inverted outlets in our rig and they all worked, so it was just something with this slide area. We brought it back and they fixed it, or so we/they thought. Got it home and within a day, it wasn’t working again. Brought it back to the dealer a second time and they ended up re-wiring it and now it works great. Then, we were on a 5 night trip to the BWCA with a stop in Grand Marais, MN. Got into our spot and went to extend the slides and the bedroom slide would go off center and stop. Called Keystone & they were “closed for inventory” [it was Friday-early afternoon], so no help. Called Lippert as it is a Schwintek slide mechanism-that individual couldn’t help as he had no idea where the controller for it would be located. The young gal we’ve been working with in the service dept at our local dealer gave us a 1-800 tech line. Spoke with a young man there and he knew exactly what to do and walked us through it. Still could not get it to extend properly and was told we’d need to bring it in to our dealer. So I spent those 5 nights having to crawl over my hubby, 2 dogs, and 2 cats! 😂 (I can see the humor now) Our dealer tried to fix it once we got back, but realized the mechanism needed replacing. So they ordered the parts and we took it home since we’d already had another trip planned before it could be repaired. They fixed it and it is now working just fine. The teeth on the glides were so chewed up you would have thought it was several years old and not brand new! We’ve also had a couple other not-so-minor-but-not-so-major issues happen and they are working to fix them. Fortunately, Keystone has honored they’re warranty for our rig and we have paid ZERO out-of-pocket for these repairs. Our dealer’s service and parts people have been fantastic! Been having issues with our solar, too, and working to get that corrected. Have had 2 other Keystone rigs and never had issues, but things happen, whether new or old. And, yes, I believe the pandemic put many, if not all, manufacturers in a pickle and they put profit over product quality (which they always touted before) and it’s now biting them in the arse.
Awesome news about Keystone. Thanks for sharing this. Happy travels.
I happen to have friends who have a GD travel trailer that was supposedly made extra robustly in order to live in it. The trailer is 7 years old and no major problems. I will say that they are about to replace the awning, because the material started to deteriorate over the past year.
Yes, I've heard the older GD's are better. I've had neighbors with 2017 Grand Design fifth wheels, very happy with the quality. Thanks for your comment.
I don't own any RV but even I knew never buy an RV when the parts chain was delayed or broken. They sold unfinished RV's for sure.
Yep. But sadly this was a design flaw with a structural failure...Grand Design knew, but kept building them this way! Thanks for watching.
Grand Design uses pinch rolling for their sidewalls and still use Luan backer. Their floors are OSB. At the very fundamental level they are not using best practice. Grand Design has an outstanding marketing department that has people repeating the line "Grand Design builds quality RVs!", and historically they have been good about getting replacement warranty parts sent to owners instead of making them wait 4 months for a dealer repair. But, IMO, their actual construction is lower mid tier at best. ---- The rig in the video is stunning, one of my all time favorite fifth wheels. BUT, when I looked at it, my UNTRAINED eye saw the kitchen was elevated above the frame, the kitchen was full of very heavy equipment (island, fridge, stove, TON of cabinets, microwave, TWO LARGE SLIDES, etc) yet the aluminum skeleton that was supposed to hold all of that up and what it was tied to just didn't seem beefy enough. I'm not surprised it is all failing. I'm so sorry for the couple in the video, AND for all the other 390RK Solitude owners out there. Grand Design needs to come up with an over engineered solution to make these owners whole, and eat whatever cost it takes to make it right. THAT will make GD look incredible.
Yes indeed. Changes need to happen. As you may know, I used to own a brand new GD Solitude. I'm still a member of that floorplan page (310GK) on Facebook. The comparison between the two pages is significant. SO MANY folks on the 390 page selling or mentioning problems. Very sad. Thanks for watching.
OMG, perfect timing for me and finding this video. I was getting ready to purchase this same Grand Design unit and now I'm contacting the dealer and cancelling the deal. I could have been in the same position as these folks and I'm not in the mood to lose over $100,000. So thank you very much for this video. I will look at something else out there that will serve my needs.
Thanks Liz for getting the word out. Good luck with your 5th wheel guys!
Thanks for being here, Nancy!
I watch a lot of RV videos. I'm thinking a lot of people don't watch videos or read forums because there are so many horror stories. As you said even an inspection may not help because some problems don't develop on a new unit until it has been down the road. I would only buy used but only after an inspection. Liz you are a force for good. Knowledge is power.
Yes it is very important to have even a new RV inspected but the inspector needs to be very familiar with the brand that your buying and all it idiosyncrasies. We got an inspector but he was used to TTs and cheaper fifthwheels that when he looked at ours he was enamored and missed a lot of stuff. As soon as I got it home I spent the next two weeks fixing things that should of bee caught!
Oh no. And I'm not sure an inspector would find the structural issues with the one in this video. Still, it's a good idea to get an inspection. Thanks for watching and for your wise words.
An inspector should be doing their homework before going out to the RV. When I take an inspection my price reflects time to review the RV I am inspecting so I understand the make and model. I’m sorry your experience was not satisfactory. Next time look for an experienced inspector that is certified through NRVIA.
We currently have a similar set of problems with a big Jayco 334rts. We too found problems with the Dealer's repairs. Hope you are able to get the problems resolved.
Thanks Leanna and best wishes with your repairs as well.
Another great educational video to assist potential new RV buyers avoid being taken advantage of. Liz you are a very caring and compassionate person. Your videos are always educational and sincere. You are AMAZING. Great video and Great content 👍 Thank you for the great service that you are to the RV world.
Awww, thanks so much! Comments like yours keep me going each week! Big hugs to you!
I'm 58yr old maintenance supervisor but I think it'd be better buy smaller, used unit.Much cheaper& easier to deal with
Cheaper, and simple. Thanks for this, David!
I think new rv's should come with a warning some assembly might be required. The are going to settle just like a new house when pulled down the road.
Yep, they seem to have QC via warranty. Very frustrating. thanks for watching.
I bought a new Sierra 40" some 11 years ago. It didn't have a lot of trouble, but the main drain never ever worked, it always seeped. 6 tries to get it fixed, one last time they had it 5 months and it still leaked. I sold it 1 year ago, don't miss it.
Wow, that must have been annoying. Thanks for your comment, and for watching.
I have heard the last couple years one of the big problem is they pay by the piece when manufacturing instead of by the hour. So there is incentive to rush through the builds. The manufacturer would rather pay for repairs instead of doing it right the first time. Sad situation. Maybe with sales slowing way down the manufacturers will slow down and do quality work vs quantity.
It's true that they seem to be more about fixing by warranty than getting it right in the first place. I hope this changes soon. Thanks for watching.
I have a pre-winnebago Grand Design, but 10 months old from someone who had already gone through it and corrected the problems. I sent pictures back to a VP at Grand Design of all the stupid work I found because of the RV industry in the way of their quality control is, I’ve really thought about getting out of the RV and just buying a vacation home after six years. Recently, we had an electrical fire underneath one of the slides one morning and almost burned through a propane line. It was electrical he caused.
Oh my goodness! Yikes! That is so scary. Thanks for your comment, and yes, the quality has sure gone downhill. Safe travels.
Thank you for the information Liz! I've been to that campground in Welches! You might like Goldendale one day, it's beautiful in a different way. Have fun and stay away from PDX!
Ooh, I should check that out. Thanks Jennifer. And I hear ya on PDX!
We purchased a 2022 new forest river ceder creek and have problems. I was told they make all campers so fast and expect the dealer to fix all the problems when you find them. The biggest problem is dealers won't repair your camper if you dont get it from them.
Yes, that's the truth, Bill. So sorry you've had problems with your new Cedar Creek. Thanks for watching and see you in the next video.
Hi Liz! We love your channel. Especially that you’re not afraid to share the good,the bad, and the ugly!
We’re headed to glacier in a few days too! How long will you be there?
The month of August,hope to see you!
We bought a brand new 2017 GD RL27 5th wheel from Blue Dog RV in Post Falls ID.
Amazingly enough we still own the rig! The repair list on this thing is unbelievable! Thank goodness we have a local RV repair man 15 minutes from our home who was able to do the warranty work. If it had gone into an RV dealer for the repairs we probably would not have seen our 5th wheel for the entire first year!
We actually thought of trading it in thinking we bought a lemon. However, our RV repairman said our rig is so much better than the other new RV’s being currently manufactured. What a scary thought!
As far as Grand Design they did pay for the repairs when it was under warranty. Two of our three slides are Swintek. That brand of slide should only be used on “maybe” a lightweight wardrobe slide. We have definitely had our problems with those slides!
We love going camping at the beach and up in the Sierra’s in our 5th wheel and would not trade the outdoor experience for anything else.
Yay, so glad you are making your camper work for you! Blue Dog in Post Falls did the repairs on my GD fifth wheel. I was not entirely happy, but that's another story. Yes, it is quite frightening to know how they are just slapping these things together these days. Thanks for watching ,and for your comment.
Heck we bought a $500,000 Newmar Dutch Star ⭐️ NEW in January 2023-and we had a ton of BIG issues immediately-That shouldn’t be the case at all-And I don’t want to hear the excuses of an earthquake going down the road-This stuff at $500,000 should be built for that -Things falling apart immediately is not the earthquake it is just poor quality 🤷♀️🤯🤬
Exactly this! I'm so sorry to hear this. Thanks for your comment.
I can't stop thinking about what happened with your Dutch Star. If you are interested in sharing your story in a video, send me an email. liz@lizamazing.com We can't let the RV industry get away with this! Thanks Mary.
You spent 500K on something that probably costs a TON to drive, when it comes to gas prices....and has all those issues.....I spent 467K for a 2,100 square foot, 5 bedroom, 1 and 1/2 bath house in Utah.....and have had no issues whatsoever.
That’s horseshit they were supposed to be quality
Next time maybe try a 'Condominium at Sea.' It's like you and 200 other couples buy a condo aboard an ocean liner, and the owners association decides on the ports of call.
Good honest feedback. Thank you! The way I'm seeing things in the rv industry, it almost appears that if you purchased a used 2018 or 2019 unit, you're probably going to get a higher quality unit with less issues... Comments?
I've heard this story before. My brother had travel trailer that had to go back the manufacture due to a design flaw that could not be repaired. When they offer him a full refund towards another trailer he made a step up. That trailer had a slide out water leak that was unable to be fixed... when stored and it rained it would flood the trailer... he gave up on camping after that one.
I've got folks in my FMCA club that have pages of problems with their new rigs. One had to go from the west coast back east for major repairs at the factory! Almost half million dollars and pages of repairs.
I've got a 2013 class A gasser with a few structual "issues" and thought about moving up to a new DP in a few years. I at the point that I will keep what I've got in place of going with the unknown.
I think the only way to clean this up is do like the yachting world. No loan without a survey. Could you image what would happen if banks or cash buyers said - no deal without an inspection. Perhaps they would should stop putting out substandard products.
So sorry about what happened with your brother. Yes, hang on to that older one. They don't make them like they used to! Thanks for watching.
It's the same thing in Australia 🇦🇺 lot off dodgie work happend in the covid period
Requiring a pre-finance survey for RVs- particularly the $100K and ups sounds like a terrific idea.
Liz this is a great subject for your youtube channel and I hope these folks get some relief, it is such a shame and every new rv owners nightmare. What a disaster, Grand Design should just replace the rv. I will never buy another Grand Design, they're reputation is ruined. We're having significant slide problems on our GD Imagine XLS 22 MLE. In May one side got stuck in and refused to budge. Via a GD forum I belong to, I found that the slide parts manufactured in a specific date range are defective and Lippert offers a complete repair kit and will pay freight and labor. I opened a ticket with Lippert. Dealer service ignored my findings, ordered parts from GD via Warranty and delivered what they said was a complete rebuild. Now, 6 weeks later, we discover the dealer only repaired 1 side of the slide and we're now having problems with the other side. Of course we are, they're defective parts! Dealer has used the rest of the parts on other repairs, warranty won't pay for any more as it was supposed to have been completely repaired in June. Contacted GD, they won't get involved as it's a 'dealer issue'. Trying to work the Lippert ticket, they understand what's going on, unsure if they will honor TSB now as dealer repaired one side. Really don't want to work with the dealer any more! Regardless of the parts defect, I also think that the slide itself is too big and heavy for the system. Another design flaw, not so grand!! Sorry this is so long.
Thanks so much for your comment! I almost bought an Imagine before I bought my Reflection. So frustrating with your issue!!! I hope you get this resolved soon. And don't be sorry about your comment being long. Your words are sure to help others! Thanks again.
Liz - I enjoyed your video. We had purchased brand new Montana 5th (over $100,000) and had constant electrical problems as well as some structural issues with it. With the amount of money that people pay for these RV's the RV industry needs to step up their game and offer a much better warranty for these vehicles!!!
Yes indeed! I hope this video causes them to wake up and step up their game! So sorry you had problems with your Montana. Hope all that is behind you now.
Why on earth did you spend over 100k on an RV when you could've paid someone to renovate one and actually have a quality piece of less?
Bought a 2022 new shasta and the awning fell on me knocking me to my knees they weld came Apart. On this new unit beem a week still waiting to have it fixed Bought at ron hoovers Georgetown tx
Oh my goodness. So crazy! Thanks for sharing, and for watching.
I’ve had my Grand Design since April 2021 and not a single major issue. A couple minor ones that I fixed myself nothing that you wouldn’t find in any RV at any price.
Yay! So glad. I was super happy with my brand new Reflection, less so with the new Solitude. Thanks so much for taking the time to comment.
I just love how these couples stories are always choreographed😂😂
The main issues with GD is the use of Lippert frames and axles! These structures are built to minimum standards and strength requirements. If your in the market for a new RV, do not purchase a unit that utilizes Lippert frames and axles. More RV’ers are experiencing major structural problems with these frames especially near the pin box. As always, before you sign on the dotted line make sure you get a quality inspection report from a NRVTA certified inspector so you have peace of mind in the unit that you’re purchasing!
LMAO! Lippert axles are used in every major brand except 3. Those being companies like Airstream, which cost more than a house for a cramped up tube. LOL! Or you can jump onto a Luxe or SpaceCraft and pay anywhere from 300 to 400k for their entry level rigs. I do agree about the inspection though, although that will have zero bearing on a Frame issue as the frame issues happen after some miles are put on them. By the way, I live in a Grand Design and haul it all over the country with zero issues. What's your experience? Which rig do you own?
Lippert Components buys up every competitor as soon as the competitor starts making money. They practically have a monopoly on the RV industry. I live in Elkhart county and probably know at least 5 people that worked on this particular unit. The problem is not with the employees who build the units but the engineers who design them. Employees bring up flaws that they notice and management tells them to just build it to specs.
One of my favorite TH-cam channels bought this same 5th wheel trailer new, to live in while building their house. In less than 3 weeks they had similar problems as your guests. They were not moving it at all. But they had to get the DA involved and it went back and they were made whole. Thanks for letting people know.
Oh my goodness. Thanks for your comment. So frustrating.
What TH-cam channel?
Your looking at a money pit that can never be filled ,ever ,plastic , formaldehyde off gassing ,a nightmare to move ,lot rent ,fuel costs , insurance ,pumping costs ,heating , electric ,a 150 k truck to pull the monstrosity.depreciation .if something breaks the company wont fix it saying its not covered .and could take 😂up to a year to get to it .
Wife and I are on our 3rd camper. 1976 Starcraft, 1991 Wilderness and 2003 Sierra.All purchased used. 1st one was a travel trailer, 2nd and 3rd fifth wheels. Have had excellent luck with all. Our current unit is a 2003 Sierra. Love it. This season is our 17 year with the Sierra. Have replaced the water pump and fridge. All else working great and as designed. Yes, I have heard some horror stories regarding new RV's, especially ones build during or after the pandemic. It is sad when people spend $ on new and have issues.
That's awesome! I too, have an oldie but goodie, a 2005! Happy travels to you and hope to see you out here!
Excellent video and informative piece. So frustrating to pay so much for so much initial aggravation. Until we stop purchasing these rigs in such high quantities, things won’t change. Why would they?
Yes! We need to hold them accountable. Thanks for your comment.
Hi Liz, I just watched your follow up from this video and I have to Thank you for taking on the Challenge.
We purchased a brand new Forest River Apex Ultra lite. After our first camping trip, discovered the shower pan was broken to the extent you could put your finder in the hole when you pushed on the crack.
The bathroom door was beginning to split, the Fire exit window sounded like there was broken glass in the track and would not open. The cabinet wall in the kitchen on the end had so many staples in it, it would not stay fastened when lifting the side counter.
There were scratches on the counters and the outside grill cabinet was pieced together with the broken parts.
We emailed the Dealer, Campers Inn, Selma NC and provided the list of items we felt needed to be repaired or replaced. They were happy to put us on the schedule for Warranty work to be completed. They explained they would order all the parts and call us when everything was in. They did call about a month later so we drove the 1.5 hours to drop it off for the repairs. At this point we only had the camper 2 months. It sat with Campers INN for 5 months. When we had enough and wanted our camper back after multiple attempts to receive a progress report, we let them know what day we would be there to collect our Camper and tow it home.
Let me tell you, we had more problems AFTER we picked it up because the Service Center did more damage attempting to repair. From scraping the ceiling and removing the paint and texture to reinstalling the valance over the window and window shade on backward and upside down. The bathroom door was replaced but missing parts to keep it secure. The kitchen cupboard wall side, well we just removed it and replaced it ourselves. There were more staples in it but not attached to anything. The Furrion Fridge went out so we had to order a new thermostat to fix it. The A/C ductwork was kinked and not functioning properly.
It’s now been a year and we are still finding things but have the wherewithal to be able to make the repairs on our own. I can tell you that this has been the worst buy we have made. We have owned in the past, a Coleman Pop-up, Keystone 5th Wheel, Newmar Baystar Sport Class A, Monaco Monarch Class A, ALiner Explorer. So, we are not new to RV buying or Camping. I agree there needs to be more Accountability with the Manufacturers and the Dealers. What happened to customer satisfaction!
Oh my goodness! What an ordeal. It does seem to be that you have to be handy to enjoy RV life. Otherwise you lose too much camping time waiting for the dealer. Thanks for sharing your story and I bet you miss that Monaco!
A Camper is a self contained unit that slides into the bed of a Pickup Truck 😅
That GD is definitely a 5th wheel 👌👍
Depends where you live what you call it. Happy camping, James, and thanks for watching.
Actually, a camper is one who goes camping. LOL, thanks for watching.
A friend of mine bought a new 5th wheel and when he hit I bump on the hwy it broke a spring on the 3 axle set up which shouldn't be a big deal. But the factory ran the bracket line between the axle and spring. It cut the brake line which left him with no brakes on his huge unit. When I seen it, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The factory repair shop only offered to redo the very poor design.
Oh my goodness. That is outrageous! Thanks for sharing this story, and for watching.
I was looking into Grand Design because of their customer service reputation. I guess that's all gone out the window! I do know for sure that whatever RV I go with, I will be getting an inspection. I can't believe the structural issues this couple has had to deal with. I hope Grand Design does the right thing and takes care of this couple correctly. Very disappointing!
Just be aware, the inspector can only tell you about what he/she can physically reach without disassembly. The real gremlins may be hiding in the walls or under the floors.
Hi Wendy. Yes, so frustrating, especially since GD knew of the structural problems BEFORE Bob & Louise ordered their fifth wheel. So frustrating! Thanks for watching.
Most 5th wheels have been designed too heavy for the cheap frame that supports them. I'd never buy a trailer RV they are basically junk. Buy a class A medium duty chassis RV and never have an issue. Also there's something to be said for buying an older better built class A RV. The quality of the build in the early 2000s is incredible compared to what's made today. Personally I bought a 2002 National Dolphin 36 foot class A
12k miles in it when I bought it.
Incredible quality. Almost a time capsule as it wasn't used much. Been on the road full time 5 years no real serious issues or repairs. And I saved 200k on the price of a new class A
Yes! I'm driving a 2005 Alfa. Those were the good years. See you on the road and thanks for watching.
Thanks for sharing
Thank you for being here!
Wow, thanks so much for this video. I was considering on buying this model...
Glad this video helped. Thanks for watching Manny!
I live in a vacation area and can’t go to the site without seeing at least 20 RV’s of all kinds. I’ll be careful to avoid these as best I can. I don’t want to drive anywhere near one. I had no idea how cheaply made they were. The fact that they let you drive around with an RV that wasn’t fit to be on the road. It’s unconscionable of them to put many lives in danger. Unbelievable.
Yes indeed. Thanks for your comment and for watching. Be safe.
These RV's are built very quickly. I was watching a program about Amish working in the modular housing market, they also build RV's. They work at a very fast pace so I can see how some things would be forgotten or left out.
Yep. They've been just slapping them together lately. Thanks for your comment.
I am in my second GD. I just had to weld two slide brackets on my Reflection. Grand Design needs new management from the ground up in every aspect of the buisness. Even their customer service has an attitude. I feel bad for those people. GD will keep them in their shop time and time again or try to pass the buck. Good job in reporting this Liz. Again after all these years no one at Grand Design understands inspection and welding procedures before you build.
Whew, it is so frustrating for sure, Donald! I've owned two Grand Design fifth wheels, bought brand new. They had problems but nothing like Bob and Louise are going through. I hope change happens soon in GD, as you say, from the ground up. Thanks for watching.
Speaking of welding.... they need to hire a ton of RIG WELDERS. THEY'LL DO IT RIGHT..THE FIRST TIME!
@@marybourgeois5235
It’s not so much the welders. It’s a poor frame design. And , the steel from China is inferior! Biggest problem. I am a welder so I know. 👍😁
@@ralphp3057 GOTTA LOVE WELDERS!!! Had a family of rig welders. Thks for the info. STAY SAFE!!!!
I have a 2017 395M Grand Design Momentum and its been perfect. Of course this is before the pandemic.
The only issue I have had so far is with the suburban water heater, can't believe they used plastic instead of brass. But that's on suburban.
Yes, you got a good year with that Momentum. Happy for you and see you on the road! Thanks for watching.
This goes to show you that newer isnt always better. Liz, i know you had an age range in mind for when you bought your Alpha. I totally agree w your thinking. Too bad these poor people have this problem. It sounds like a significant one too 😢
Yep, it's not going to be an easy fix for them...if it's even repairable. Thanks for your comment, Maria. And, yes, in a lot of cases older is better.
We have a grand design ,a 2018 and are have floor sagging problems in the kitchen area also. And now a slide out is acting up in the dinning area . We had the insurance company come out and they are saying it’s a manufacturer defect and that they don’t cover that. It’s out of warranty so the repairs are all on us. It’s a shame that grand design is putting out such shoddy work for the price one pays for these things.
Oh no. So very sorry to hear this, Julie. Thank you for your comment.
This is very bad news for the RV industry as a whole. Sounds like they knew about this issue before letting the units leave the lots. Thank you for sharing. Everyone stay safe, happy and healthy. From Henrico County Virginia
Yep. The news is not good. Thanks for watching and commenting, Norm!
Liz look up "RV Lemon law" = this is how you get a RV manufacturer to buy back a RV that is a lemon.
see "Class A Motorhome Lemon Buyback Irritated Traveler" video (this couple explains how they got their RV manufacture to buy back their lemon RV)
🍋🍋🍋🍋🍋
(there are also lemon laws for cars too)
@@jansmith3158 It must be noted that while all states have lemon laws for cars, in most states those laws do NOT apply to Recreational Vehicles. So, to everyone reading this: _Do your research_ and learn which states have lemon laws that also cover RVs.
And note that even in states that include RVs within their lemon laws, they may not cover all kinds of RVs. For example, California -- normally a pretty consumer-friendly state -- has a lemon law that covers all motor vehicles, including RVs. But only RVs with an engine! I.e., motorhomes. So trailers are not covered. 😠 (Which really sucks, because trailers represent the vast majority of RVs purchased.)
So do your research beforehand. 🙂
Shout out from tuckahoe, va!
Thank You. Just removed them from my list. So close to making my purchase. They lost another buyer!!!!!!
Whew. I totally understand. Thanks for watching and happy camper shopping!