Model Railroad Track Cleaning Tips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2024
- In this video I share some great model railroad track cleaning tips. I explain various processes and methods for track cleaning and I demonstrate the CMX Clean Machine track cleaning car. #model railroad #trackcleaning #CMX
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Anyone else binge watching Ron for seven hours?
I learned from reading MRH magazine that odorless mineral spirts make the best track cleaning fluid. Less micro arcing occurs than with using alcohol. It's the micro arcing that creates the black stuff you clean off the rails.
You need to see my more recent video, "Stop Cleaning Your Track..."
MRH also recommends a light application of graphite applied to the top inner surface of the rail.
Thanks, Ron, you've reminded me that it's time to clean the track. I have a CMX track cleaning car and have been using it for some time. I like the way it works. I don't use the syringe, however, because it doesn't fit in the hole very well. Instead, I use an eye dropper. It really is heavy, and on helixes or other inclines, a single diesel really struggles to push it. On occasion, it gets hung up in turnouts. I use isopropyl alcohol and run the track cleaning car over all the track at least twice. ...Roy
My one locomotive never stalled but slowed down significantly on 2% grades with it. I meant to mention but forgot that I never hung up on any turnouts bud did on 2 Atlas re-railers. Thanks for watching, Roy.
Hi, how about runing the set downwards instead of upwards. In theory if car's upfront & running downwards I think it might help .... sorry just thinking about it
Cheers
Great video, I especially liked the way you cleaned the locomotive wheels but be careful as plastic wheels/acetone don't like each other. Oxidation can't be prevented and before/after solvent cleanings a non chemical removal of dust is a good idea because it loves moisture.
The CMX car looks great. I may need to invest in one. When I clean my n scale track with a bright boy, I periodically wipe the bright boy on a folded paper towel, that removes most of the junk so the bright boy doesn't spread it around the layout.
+Joseph Thien You are thinking along the right lines, but a paper towell wont remove enoug contaminants to keep from spreading them.
I love how we are all on a budget and are saved by our lovely wives/girlfriends.
i have neither soooooo. where do i count in
I've used the CMX cleaning car as well, it's a great product. Thanks for sharing.
I have that clean machine car, best cleaning car out there. I built a boxcar with the Masonite slider too, I use Woodland Scenics Hobe-tac to the Masonite and put a Shotgun cleaning patch on that and trimmed the edges. The Hobe-tac allows me to swap the patch out when it gets dirty. I put the boxcar behind the CMX car to wipe the rails. Metal wheels on all your rolling stock helps the track not get dirty so quickly too.
Ive been using the cmx for years now...but I swaped the wheels for euro fleischmann wheels...I sometimes use Goo gone but it takes a hour to dry from the rails...I am going to try panel wipe which is used in the auto trade to clean a metal painted panel prior to painting.
Good video and thanks for the tips. In my very limited use of the CMX on my n-scale layout, I recommend anyone using acetone to be very careful about the flow rate and the speed you run the car. Acetone melts Atlas ties extremely quickly. Micro Engineering ties will melt also, though much more slowly. I've lately been running Aero-Car ACT-6006 with good results and am tempted to try Isopropyl Alcohol.
Good advice. I would recommend filling it NOT on the rails. With a drip rate on 1/5seconds I got no acetone on anything but railheads, but great care should be taken. And again, I personally would only use such an aggressive solvent rarely when track is really dirty and would do maintenance cleaning with alcohol.
Hi Ron, yes I was looking forward to a video on the matter especially from someone with a large layout as you. You've had a helix and other tough places to reach by hand, so I wondered how you got that clean.
Well if there's a snow plower for outdoor railroads, there's got to be something alike for indoor railroads.
From the bonus, so how do you clean the inside parts of the rails?
I do appreciate your comments, I'm looking forward to reading/hearing on that matter.
Thanks again for your videos!
Cheers
Richard
Hi Richard. Honestly, I haven't really cleaned the inside of them before, but I am considering a vacuum car specifically for cleaning dust from the helix.
@@RonsTrainsNThings hi Ron well you could have a MOW train with the tank & vacum cars + 6 axel loco.
Cheers
HERE in Australia we use this wagon with INOX an Australian product and it is brilliant, highly recommended if you can get access to it, leaves everything else for dead
Hi Ron, I have been wanting the CMX for my O-scale layout for a long time, but they are about $300 for the O-scale version. They are very nice machines. I am saving up right now. Another great video, keep up the good work!
Yes, I waited some time due to cost also, but when you get it you'll know it was worth the wait.
My first time watching your video. Learned a little more today.We have a toy museum and were given 2 train layouts. One is complete and has been in storage 4 years and not used for years before that. The other is a recent gift with miles of track and needs to be landscaped. I'm currently getting ready to move it to storage. Both will need cleaning when we can set them up. Do you have any tips on cleaning a completed set up, landscape, buildings, etc that has not been run in many years? Both are HO. Thank you.
I truly believe that I can make my own version of one of these out of an old car. $160 is insane for something so simplistic.
If you do, let me know. Make a video about it, or contact me and I will. You are right, that would ve a great project.
Uncle Ron wants YOU...to clean your track. lol This subject gets argued about more than the sound decoder debates. However, the best substance I have found for cleaning your track is CRC 2-26, available at Home Depot. You spray a thin layer on a scrap piece of Homasote and wipe it on your track. It takes off the filth and lays down a thin conductive wash as you go. No need for expensive track cleaners nor abrasive cleaners that you rightly point out are havens for gunk to grow. Plus, by using scrap Homasote you slowly get rid of that box full of Homasote leftovers.
+RockIsland652 Interesting. I've never heard of it. I'll have to check that out.
I use CRC 2-26 as well and have had great success with it. it is designed as an electrical Plastic safe lubricant, penetrant and corrosion inhibitor that helps prevent electrical malfunctions caused by water penetration, humidity, condensation or corrosion. It does leave a thin protective layer to stop oxidation, and somewhere i read it helps repel dust and moisture. i use CRC QD Plastic Safe Liquid Contact Cleaner for heavy cleaning.
I enjoyed your Track Cleaning Tips video,and wanted to comment on your pumping unit in the background.It is not un common to find the bridle and polish rod hung up in the high position of the stroke indicating a downhole problem
Thanks for that info. This model is an operating model that just wasn't turned on for this video and is in the position where it last stopped when it was last turned off.
Thanks so much Ron, Great video but I would caution about using Acetone on Kato or Bachmann track as the Acetone can melt the roadbed. Thanks , Mike
+Mike Fifer Good advice, Mike. If set correctly the CMX car cleaned the rails without gettin 1 drop on the ties or roadbed, but care must be taken for sure.
That is true and the car is great. Thanks for the great video.
Mike
Cheers Ron. Nice explanation and demo. I've seen a few people over here in the UK use the CMX car. It's pricey as you said but seems to work well.
Great idea, a model railroad tank car that actually carries a useful cargo!
Great Video, loved the bit about cleaning with old hankerchief on diesels, have you got a good way of cleaning Steam Engine and tender wheels?
Ron - do you have any thoughts on the CMX car after 18 months of use? Does it do all the cleaning you need, or do you need to do other track cleaning chores? Was it worth the $$$?
A great question. I use it every few months when things seem to be clogging up a bit. I use it most in my helix. After each major cleaning I treat my track with no-ox which keeps it from oxidizing and promotes conductivity, so I don't have to clean track as often. As far as worth the money? Depends on how much track you clean and how often. I think it has been worth it, but no doubt they are pricey. I wouldn't buy one for a small layout.
This was a great video and the comments are super.. You and I have already discussed the file scratches ..and you told me about the stainless washer..I think the wood block and washer are very much in order for me to build.. great tip. Tom
+Overland Transportation System It really does help significantly.
Made me look, My CMX car also has metal wheel sets. Was thinking it might be too old and have plastic MTL wheels
hi Ron... i have a track cleaner similar to the bright boy but it's not an abrasive more like a hard rubber... i also have a life like or Bachmann cleaner box car but the most important one is the CMX track cleaner... i love how it works & would recommend it... good video.. thanks for sharing.. vinny
+bnsf6951 Hi Vinny. Yes, I am loving the CMX car. Pricey but a worthy investment.
Awesome video, thanks for the tips and tricks at the end. I will definitely be getting one of those CMX cleaners.
I’ve always thought Brite Boy was too coarse. I liked to use a Pink Pearl eraser. Cleaned my slot car brushes and armatures with a pencil eraser.
Thanks again for the video was wondering what is the best way to clean my Lima track.
I purchased the CMX car about a year ago for my HO layout. It does a great job. I use CRC 2-26 as the cleaner. It not only cleans but enhances electrical pick up and it's plastic safe. Now I'm going to say something that may be create some controversy. Acetone. it may be a great cleaner but it will destroy some plastics. I have a number of insol frog peco turnouts and would be hesitant to use it on them and would also be concerned about plastic wheel sets. This is just my opinion.
I would not use acetone all the time--just for very dirty rail like I had, and you are right, you have to be VERY careful. I would use something much less aggressive for 99% of my cleaning.
Good ideas! I bought the hornby skid pads, a bit different methods used, but still cleans up nice!
+Dr Kush Thats cool. Thanks for watching.
Bonus tip,
You can also apply a layer of electrical lubricant or car wash/wax to seal the rails from dirt.
I use no-ox on my track between cleanings, but it still needs a good cleaning every 6 months or so.
Old vid. But dont use acceton. Eats up the plastic and makes it brittle.
Can not imaging tha csx advices acceton.
On my CMX car I have drawn a line on the control valve. This way I no longer have to do the 5 second count. Just use the line as an indicator of how far the valve is open.
Great tip
Good tip. Thanks.
Good tips 👍
My first trip was isopropyl alcohol (only thing I had) after one trip around, my 4wheel stubby diesel switcher made the circuit without a nudge. Tip: avoid rubbing alcohol; it has stuff good for the skin but may not be good for the rail--wheel interface. Thanks.
After the cleaning run, you should have done the finger test and showed us that the rails are completely clean. Also, you should have made mention of the Life Like bottle of blue stuff. Is it any good? That's what hobby shops sell. There is also automatic transmission fluid, Flitz or Maas metal polish, and graphite pencils.
There are lot's of methods out there, and I know I just hit the basics. I've never used Life Like's stuff, but solvents work well and are cheaper. as for transmissions fluid, I've seen a few who swear by it but the idea of spreading an oil on my rails seems to me to be inviting dirt. I've also see the graphite and again have no experience but to me it seems logical that clean rails would be preferable to rails with stuff on them. Again, those are just my thoughts having never tried these methods. Plus I was specifically discussing cleaning rails. What you mention are supposed to be electrical conductivity aids, but not cleaning methods (excepting the Life Like product).
Great cleaning tips Ron, Thanks for sharing.-Ed
Thanks.
I am certainly going to get one..excellent video..you mentioned a"keep alive" device..what is that? Is it hard to install and is it worth it..i am running DC ..if that matters
A keep-alive circuit is a capacitor included in sound decoders for DCC.
Some DCC/sound decoders have a capacitor inside. It keeps them running for a few seconds after power is cut.
I didn't say in the video, if using an aggressive solvent, fill the CMX car OFF the layout and move it onto the tracks when set up. This will help avoid damage from spillage. I filled mine on the rails here ONLY for the sake of getting it on video.
scary to think this tip is necessary to point out, but then I've read some comments on your other videos.
I would rather try to be safe than have someone blaming me for melting their ties.
Or even worse: Dissolve plastic, and attack the paint on the cars and engine. Which Aceton can do.
Thank you. I have always wanted one but your video has made my mind up. I'll be ordering one later today. Best regards Ian Brunssum NLD.
Be sure to let us know how you like it.
how clever! I think the parking parts on the side are done manually?
the clean machine has to be the best piece of rolling stock i have. works great. I just need to find a place to get more pads for mine. no dealers up here carry them.
nice video sir. thanks for the info.
I think this is the first time I have seen you run a train,, and a bit of a layout tour. I suppose that is a good way to give a tour anyway. lol.
nice tips at the end, I didn't know that about a metal washer.
Cleaning pads...ask and you shall receive: amzn.to/2Fve4e8
Layout tour with some running trains: th-cam.com/video/hb57IH_pg0I/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching. 👍
Fabric stores carry corduroy, you can pick up a little remnant for a few bucks, and have a lifetime supply of cleaning pads....
Just make sure it's reinforced with the mesh on the back...
can you put up a video on what you mean. with the mesh and all ?
sparky107107
The "mesh" is the backing that is on the corduroy...
That is true. Just make sure it is thin and soft like the original, but that shouldn't be that hard to find.
Mmm, even more of a reason for me to grab a CMX car of my own. And it looked easier to pull than people say it is, like I could pull it with my 2-10-2 or my Atlas Shay, which I've applied Bullfrog Snot to.
+TestECull it didn't pull too bad. With mine 6 axle diesel locomotive it slow down some onto percent grades and it does get hung up on Atlas rear Ayers but mostly it pulled fine with one locomotive.
Mmm, yeah people keep saying you *need* at least two C-C diesels to pull these things, that steam power is right out of the question. I always figured they were exaggerating but it's nice to have confirmation. when I get around to buying one for my own layout I'll probably make an MoW train for my 2-10-2 to pull, with this right behind the tender.
If all else fails I have a DD40AX with a shapeways full carbody and another 2.5oz of lead shoved into it, I've got a plastic frame LL E8A, I've got a Con Cor 4-8-4 S2 that's able to pull wheelies, so I've for sure and certain got power that can pull the thing. But it's nice that I can use the sort of power one might expect on an MoW train to pull it.
I've also heard that you can use the CMX to clean locomotive and rolling stock wheels if you're using a long lasting solvent(Say, Goo Gone, which would be my first choice). You'd pull it along normally, but run trains just behind it. The solvent left on the rails cleans the wheels of the equipment trailing it, then the next pass 'round the CMX picks that dirt up too.
Ron, my engines run very well on my track. However, I have a passenger train with KATO light packs in the cars. They work, but flicker too much for my liking. I am not running DCC at this time, just straight DC. So not sure if there is any cure for keeping the cars from flickering as they travel along the track. I also have power running to the track every 36". Wondering if you have any experience with this or would have any advise. Love your channel - I learn a lot from your productions and appreciate all you do. - Jeff
At 2:30 your ex BN BNSF locomotive (green locomotive) is derailed lol
I always used to use the dark end of an eraser for cleaning track. I haven't set up an N Scale track in at least two decades though and my O scale stuff is still relatively new and more tolerant of dirt.
My N Scale stuff is too old for the sound startup stuff... As for my O scale stuff, I must admit I completely don't understand how to work it. I know if I let the engines idle long enough, I'll eventually start hearing different sounds and voices, and the more throttle you give, the more it matches with the sound effects, but as for any "sequence"... no idea. The only steamers I have don't have sound effects.
We might possibly be moving this year, and if so, I'll be looking for a basement corner for a train setup 😀
Against my most paranoid instincts, I kept the Tide pods vs tossing them in a dumpster. They smell REALLY nice when you wash with them.
Basement train layout...AWESOME! As for Tide Pods, did you see my Facebook share and post about Hurtz Donuts Tide Pod donuts?
what solvent would you recommend to clean the track if you are running some locos with traction wheels?
The main thing there would be to avoid a solvent that would damage the rubber. Some people dislike isopropyl alcohol, but it is safe.
Great video. Say, what’s in that mug that you take a sip out of every video? And why haven’t you finished it yet? -Mark
That's the best kept secret on TH-cam. That might make it into my next Q&A video. LOL
Great video Ron I'll have to try the cmx car out.thanks for sharing
+CSX 8840 CSX Baltimore sub division If you do let me know what you think.
Sounds good yes that would work thanks Tony
Great video Ron, thanks for sharing
Thanks.
Might want to get a pipette for adding solution to take, get more precise control of fill, or maybe a straw
Cleaning track with alcohol.
Our model train Club did an extensive study using various solvents and methods of cleaning the track. We are open to the public for a 16 day period during the year. We run for 10 hours per day, and get a lot of action on our layout. Our responsibility is to maintain a running operation, and as a result effective cleaning is Inportant. We have found that using Isopropyl alcohol is an absolute waste of time. Run your own tests. A small amount of WD40 on a rag is a thousand times better.
Good show Ron, looks like I'm going to invest is one of these cars, thanks for sharing....
I eyed one for years due to the price, but now that I have it I think it will be worth every penny. My mainline hasn't run so well since just after I laid it. Thanks for watching.
Ron, I just had a thought how about putting the washer on the disk on the Tomix track cleaning & vacuum car you get BOTH the polishing action & vacuuming of the track, but that of course before or after cleaning it with this of course? Just a thought, what do you think!
Ron---great job
A question. When cleaning sterling silver, there is a deoxidizing paste sold commercially that is applied to the utensil and rubbed off and shined. Because of its deoxidizing and-cleaning properties, can it be used as a track cleaner or does it leave a residue on the track that will interfere with the movement of current from the rail to the wheel. It sounds like the delightful way to make quick work of a miserable task.
Thanks far listening. Jack okeefe
I have never heard of anyone using that for track cleaning, so I really don't know.
With that layout size, you almost need to dedicate a loco to track cleaning and just let it run all around all the track.
Too right man.
Does this work on dcc systems or does the fluid on the cleaning pad cause a short circuit
Mine is a DCC layout. Yes, it is excellent for DCC layouts.
Ron nice vedio but acetone is deadly on plastic to be sure! I use elbo grease and a brush instead just saying
You have to keep the acetone off the plastic. This applicator doesn't pour it onto the track but just drags a damp cloth across the rails. And again, I don't use acetone all the time. As I said in the video, I used acetone for this cleaning of very dirty track, but for maintenance I use alcohol. The problem with the brush is that you can simply move the contaminates around on the track without actually removing them.
What kind of camera equipment do you use? The quality is great. Thanks.
It is all listed in the end of the description of each video.
Well the sturder problem on BNSF 9222 is . . . It is not properly set on the rails.
I had to go back and look. It wasn't in the first shot, but it was when I ran it. It is actually on a different track when I ran it. First shot it was on the nearest track--the passing siding. When it ran it was on the main, 2nd track.
Hey, Ron another great video. I was wondering, have you looked into the Woodland Scenics Tidy Track products? The track cleaner they offer is pretty good IMO. It has various pads of different materials that can be swapped out. They come in aggressive to very light. Although still a solid pad as the ones you mentioned in the beginning of your video, it’s my understanding they are less aggressive then most available. The cleaning head can be mounted on a included rod to reach track that is out of arms length. One member in a local club near me even mounted the rod to a piece of PVC pipe for an even longer reach (his rail road is huge). Woodland Scenics also offer what they call Dust Monkeys. These are small soft pads that clip to a piece of rolling stock and are dragged around the layout. Great for picking up light dust on the rails. Dust on the rails seem to be a big problem up here in North Eastern PA since most layouts are built in basements. Woodland Scenics also offer what they call the Roto Wheel Cleaner. This is a nifty little device that easily hooks up to your track via alligator clips and once power is applied, will clean the wheels of your locomotive. It also works well on rolling stock. The Roto Wheel also has replaceable strips in 2 different materials. All of these products are available in N, HO and I believe O scale. I’ve used all of these and (in N scale) and do like them very much and have recommended them. But, like all Woodland Scenics products they can get a bit pricy. All that said, I think I’m going to look into that track cleaning car you showed. Looks like a good reliable cleaning system. Thanks again.
Hi, Joe. I am aware of the Woodland Scenics products, but I have never tried any of them. Thanks for your description of them. Some folks may read this and want to give them try. 👍
great video ron i am getting one this spring time out of my taxs money
+Alex Weis Let me know how you like it.
pretty cool machine! your RR rocks dude!
Thank you for your comment and thanks for watching. 👍👍
hiay what gauge are you modeling in
Thanks for the tips. I’ve been running N scale but constantly get frustrated because the front wheels off my steam engine love to derail at the tail joiners mid corner. I haven’t been able to figure out how to fix it. Has made finishing my n scale layout no fun since the train hardly makes it all the way around. Any tips for these issues?
Well, let me ask 2 questions. 1) What size, model, and make are your steam locos? 2) What is the radius of your curves and are the curves smooth?
@@RonsTrainsNThings The model is N scale size, PRR K4 4-6-2 Steam Loco. The radius where it jumps the front wheels off is 9 3/4". It's more like the front wheels ride up and over the outside of the rail if that makes sense. It happens at the area where the snap track joins. It is about the second curve piece after the first curve and then does it again later in the turn as well. I do believe it is level. I have tried filling the inside of the rail. It has helped a bit but the issues is still there. I had actually relaid all of this track and took my time in hopes of eliminating this issues. As for my train cars, I have no issues with them. They are also longer passenger cars that aren't recommended for these tight radiuses but again, I have no issues with them.
wish i had bought this car instead of the aztec car it works o.k. you have to change the rollers from scrubber to wet solvent they are seperate rollers.
Interesting. I did not know that.
Do u use dcc?? Which dcc system do u use.
I do use DCC. I bought the MRC Prodigy Advance system when it first came out, upgraded to wireless, then later had the software upgraded to Advance2, which is where I am now.
[thank, you for youre video]👍
Great tips thanks Ron , what was the music you used ?
I don't remember off hand, but the info should be in the description.
I’m gonna try using a piece of sponge and isopropyl alcohol
What's the name of that music
When you said aggressive solvent I immediately thought goof off for a second
An electrician, who is also a professional model railroad repairer, told me that rubbing alcohol, even the high concentration 91%, will leave a film of water on the track, he suggested using Goo Gone.
I've heard other suggest that, but have never tried it. I'm going to check it out.
I love the music
What is a traction tire?
+The Lowmein Some steam locomotives (which have all drive wheels connected via connecting rods) will have a thin rubber (or similar material) ring that stretches around one driver on each side to improve traction--traction tires. Acetone will eat these.
Get rid of the 90%, pitch it the trash/bin. Use contact cleaner.
At 2:24 your Burlington northern locomotive is derailed
Is 70% alcohol okay or do I need to get 99% alcohol ho scale
Put pad in garment bag and throw in washer on hot with bleach reuse them
Doesn't Acetone eat plastic
your BNSF 9222 is Derailed
I just use pre-made liquid track cleaner that can buy
Goo gone on a clue shop towel.
Stop lying to us, you know that you just wanted to show off your shiny new track cleaning car. One thing I would bring up is take your time when cleaning locomotive wheels, make sure no alcohol is on your finger when going to touch the body over time and it can take off the road name/number decals.
Good advice.
Ron's Trains N Things don't ask me how I know.
oh,,, and extra large.
LOL, took me a minute to figure that out. Got it. Thanks.
Alcohol on meals? No water please.
How about electronic cleaner! Also put a dehumidifier in the room!
I have to comment on the use of a Bright Boy and alcohol for track cleaning. You should never use either one ! The Bright Boy will leave behind pieces of the pad. The alcohol will clean the rail but that is all you have. It will not allow the electrical circuit to be completed very well. It will work for you but not for very long .
Instead use CRC contact cleaner and protectant or WD 40 contact cleaner. Clean the wheels of your loco and track. Your cleaning cloth will be black when finished and your trains will run smooth as silk. I know because I used alcohol for years and will never go back to it.
99% isopropyl alcohol is no stronger than 70% isopropyl alcohol. The only difference is the amount of water added. 70% iso has 30% water, 99% iso has 1% water. Isopropyl alcohol is isopropyl alcohol. Water is bad for your track and your layout. Only 99% iso should be used.
People keep saying that “water is bad for your track”, but I have never seen any evidence that it is, certainly not in the microscopic quantities we are talking about here. Modellers spray their track with water-diluted PVA without a second thought. Distilled water evaporates completely and quite quickly at room temperatures. It’s possible it could marginally promote oxidation, but not if you are running trains over it regularly. Same as the real thing really, except that nickel-silver is not steel and rather less corroding.
Never show off your model r.r. Never functions as when you are by yourself
Sorry, but you lost my confidence when you referred to those bolts as nails.
FYI the home made cars I had seen used nails for this. The photo with the bolts was found after the video was recorded.
This is stupid, 6:40 Masonite is NOT abrasive. I dare you to show how it is possible to scratch a metal rail with a piece of wood! Put a Masonite pad under several regular train cars. Run one in EVERY SINGLE TRAIN on your layout and clean your tracks as you go around the track. No need to spend $100 for this junk, run special track cleaning trains because the cleaning car weighs TOO MUCH (CMX) or use any chemicals at all! Will Masonite clean your tracks instantly NO, but will it do the job over time ABSOLUTELY!
If you spend your money on this WAY over priced junk you either have TOO MUCH money to toss away or you are simply TOO LAZY to make your own cleaning car fleet.
Abrasive: "(of a substance or material) capable of polishing or cleaning a hard surface by rubbing or grinding." (Webster). It absolutely is abrasive by definition. I NEVER SAID masonite would scratch the rails. MORE IMPORTANTLY if you disagree I am happy to have a discussion, but if you result to rudeness and name calling, we're done...We are done.