@@dariustchouanhou no budy if you think fm is based on the evidence you have problem with fm ...sory fm is not evidence ..evidence analyzes of event in game must be right explain,..fm is like criminal puzzle like secrets
I've been using EBTS for half a season now and the growth was immense. There are some tweaks that I made, regarding fatigue I usually rest my players after every match and set my training intensity to none-half-half-half-normal to minimize injuries. Also changing 1 physical session to match tactics could be a solution especially on the day before crucial matches. I just wanna say thank you so much for the amount of time you invest on this amazing work, you are the pinnacle of numberphiles in the FM community. 너무 감사합니다 선생님!
I wonder if you could do some research on a training schedule geared towards maximizing performance and winning matches? I feel like this schedule is very useful for youth teams for maximizing potential, but I am skeptical about it's effects on performance for senior squads. Also, could you make a guide on how us viewers can conduct our own FM research, and the things you have learned about it? Thanks mate, love your videos
For the longest time, I have instinctively contemplated using just physical, attacking, defending as my core trainings (without knowing why) and you gave words/data to my instincts. However, because it was instinct, I never went with it until now. Thank you for this. I will trust my instinct more now for this game!
I don't think you should trust your instincts. If you have any questions you should always consult baby jesus through prayer. if you don't hear anything it's because you haven't done enough push ups. if you do 100 push ups and you still don't hear baby jesus, then you have to try sit ups. If after 100 sit ups you don't hear baby jesus, then you have to do jumping jacks. if you don't hear baby jesus after 100 jumping jacks, then you have to try doing the splits. if you can't do the splits, then you need to get bottom surgery. Ask your doctor to cut your muscles with a scalpel so that you can then do the splits. If he doesn't do it, tell him that he's a transphobe.
If you put 4 Match Days in your custom schedule (Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun), then load it in your calendar, they will become Match Practice sessions (as long as there isn't a match on those days), allowing you to have more than 2, and I've also found that you can add 2 more as the game doesn't realise you have used them yet.
That’s true. And you can even add 21 match practice with this method. But I’ve personally tested that using 21 match practice does not boost the attributes faster than using the mixed training schedule (def+att+phy+match practice+ground def). But I also testified that including 2 match practice is effective. So I personally reckon that including more than 2 match practice does not bring extra marginal benefits.
@@YongjunJin15 i noticed in previous FM that if you add two "Match practice" per week for improving your "tactic knowledges" for example. The first in very effective but the second is better than others sessions but less effective. Maybe, more you add same sessions and less these sessions are effective... Maybe, FM developers want us to mix different sessions in ours training schedules...
Awesome! and once individual roles training has been applied, the effectiveness of match practice will increase significantly. Great job as always Max 👏
As I had written on previous videos' comments, I was already using pretty much this same schedule for a few seasons and I've seen great progress on my players. I'm not surprised this was your final take and I agree that there's probably some other odd combination which works slightly better as the variables are too many, but I can also see that training in general isn't incredibly relevant in general player growth. It's far from what they claim it to be and most features seem to be either ineffective or irrelevant (recovery, set pieces, etc.).
When using your schedule I changed "rest" to "recovery" after Practice and Real matches. I believe this will help keep injuries to the minimum. Unfortunately I do not possess your analytical skills so I cannot prove this to be the case. Thanks , again ,for your brilliant work DR w
Commented this a long time ago but figured I’d give you a heads up. His last video before this one he goes over fitness and recovery and “recovery” does not reduce injury risk in game. Probably an error on SI’s part. Use manual resting instead(right click on player)
I've been using this now for around 2 seasons and with a couple of tweaks I've made, it's brilliant. We're averaging ratings of 8.50 per week every week with around 10 players 9.20 or higher. Thanks!
Apologies for the lateness in replying. Err so for the two physical sessions I changed the Monday one to possession and the Thursday one to tactical. On Sunday I did match review/Recovery rather than the training sessions. @@briandietz9524
I've been using a similar schedule (based on your conclusions on FM22) for semi-pro teams for 4 1/2 seasons now and I've really liked the results I've had so far. I'm not properley recording the results, but my most important ypungsters have showed excellent progress. The fun thing is that I my players haven't had a single injury due to training (only those sustained in game) by using this schedule and toning down the intensity of training. Since I used Daveincid's Increase Realism mod pack, this certainly makes my experience different to your tests, but I'm not sure if the lack of injuries are due to that or just an incredible case of luck.
Hey bud, great to hear you've been getting good results. hmm if your players haven't had a SINGLE injury, that does sound a bit odd 😅 Maybe the mod that you're using deleted the injuries from the database?
@@ebfm Well, I think the file related to injury doesn't delete them, at least that's what the description says. It's still odd, I know. Does your analysis regarding injuries take into account whether they happened in training sessions/matches or is it the whole bunch?
@@dekaan No I didn't separate them. At the end of the season I went into the 'Medical Centre' page to record the total amount of injuries throughout the season, which doesn't separate injuries from training/matches.
I think it's important to mention that while these are probably the best training sessions for player growth, it does not necessarily mean that they are the best for preparing a team for a certain game or to play a particular style. Especially if your team is already close to their potential. Would be nice to see some testing for these scenarios. But overall thanks a lot for your hard work. Your content is priceless for any FM fan :)
Yeah i think this is great for smaller teams with not that great facilities and coaches. When you have good coaches and facilities your guys are going to reach their peak at a young age if you give them decent game time. So it's more about getting them the right attributes rather than maximising overall growth. I had a guy gain 25CA (From 79 to 104) between April and April (youth intake day) using the default trainings. Not sure what his PA is. Will see how he does in the next year using a slightly modified version of this training (will swap out 1 defense for 1 chance conversion and 1 chance creation on a rotation basis).
@@Pakinov Fair enough. But I wasn't talking about match preparation only (Assuming you are talking about the training session with that name). For example, when you are playing a final and go to penalties, sometimes you see that some of the players are not motivated to take the kick even though they have high attributes for penalty taking. I was wondering if training penalties the week before the game would have a positive effect.
@@zebetomusic No it doesn't he proved that in the same video their is no effect with any of those "before a match" training sessions. It's in the same video as march preparation.
Amazing job! I tried with my road to glory with Bonnyriggs Rose (4th league Scotland) and ended up with a back2back promotion and finally in th SPL 2nd (93 pts) 1 pt behind Celtic...JUST IMPRESSIVE the growth and performance of semi-pro players...WOW!. Got a call frorm Real Betis in trouble, won Copa del Rey vs Atletico de Madrid (2-0) and brought them to the UCL final (and 4th in La Liga)....lost UCL cup in extra time vs Man City 2-1 (116'). Also using in my Juventus career and smashing opponenets with my talented youngsters frrom Next Gen raising up incredibly to the main team. All this using these schedules all the time. In days off I just fill 1 or 2 slots w/set pieces training (penalties, free kicks) and nothing else. Injuries...to me seems ok...nothing more and nothing less than other schedules...so to me seems ok as far as I am concerned THANK YOU SO MUCH...EXCELLEENT JOB!! :) KUTGW
Great Video, thank you for putting in the work. A little constructive criticism: I think you should've tested for statistical significance, using a students t-test would have been helpful to better judge if for example the goalkeepers having worse growth with the custom schedule is significant at all or if it probably was just down to chance. I might just do it myself later since the raw data is available, thanks for that btw! There are many decent online tools that'll make it easy to test for significance, if you consider doing that for future tests :)
Great tests as always, i would do slight adjustments to your schedule concerning player physical condition with matches, other than that thank you for your hardwork on researching this for us
I play with wrexham in EFL Two Nd since i moved to this training schedule, I have been getting weekly injuries with 4-7 first teamers out injured constantly. Maybe just bad luck on my side, but I will have to revert to training i used before.
Tremendous work yet again, thanks for this. It's annoying, but you can circumvent the glitches by making a smattering of schedules around when games occur (like a Monday game day for U21 / U18 squads). If you are looking for more things to study, figuring out what types of training help players learn new positions would be on my wish list.
i've been using this and to say injuries go up a little is an understatement. basically every one of my main stars has been injured for multiple weeks at a time, and tend to get injured as soon as they come back lol. but the progress i've seen in attributes is extremely noticeable. I'm playing a gegenpress and usually have very low intensity training to keep injuries low
I feel like this is not covered. Yes the assistant manager makes bad choices in terms of what to pick for training, but if you do it yourself you can still get some attribute growth but also stave off fatigue and injuries. Is it possible for you to look into a training sequence that better balances injuries/fatigue as well as increasin attribute growth? as I feel that fatigue and injury risk are much bigger improvements made when doing training yourself vs ai
Hey bud, sorry to hear you've been getting heaps of injuries. I've been playing as Brighton recently with my training schedule and for me injuries haven't been too bad. I wish I could find a schedule that maximises growth & minimises fatigue at the same time, but not sure if such goal can be achieved in FM. You might want to just turn down training intensity or take out 1-2 training sessions per week to lower the injury risk on a temporary basis.
amazing! id love to see someone make a comparsion between this and other player made schedules, take zealands for example, a schedule ive been using for my last few saves, now im gonna try the EBs schedule, but actually knowing the difference might be hard ig. Anyways, thanks and amazing work Max
In FM22 he did a similar comparison to what you are asking for, and EBFM schedule was the best tied with another one (I don't know which one because he didn't wan't to give other's schedules names for respect)
i feel sport interactive didnt try any progress to training as the part of the games itself almost decades, it feels flat whatever special training it is. so kind of funny that only simple solutions to pick certain training sessions obviously to boost players development more significant than exploiting training with tiki taka or gegenpressing everyday schedules. sport interactive should overhaul their training sections, thanks to this channel found these exploits for us, really simple and yet effective based on data analysis ❤
If you look at where the player attribute growth is concentrated though, it's in areas that aren't as necessary to the playing position. Let's look at Angel Gomes, who is a younger player with one of the more pronounced CA differences. But those CA differences are mainly concentrated in Marking and Positioning, when he's an attacking midfielder. Your 16yo centerback increased unnecessarily in crossing, dribbling, finishing, longshots, off the ball. The green might look nice, but it's not going to make a significantly better defender. It looks like this might be a case of quantity (of attributes improving) over quality of attributes improving.
Some of your positive CA growth also seems to be coming in ambition, professionalism, and determination, which you've said in your previous videos isn't from any type of training. So that makes me think that some of the growth is from other things happening in the game (mentoring? impact of squad personality on young player?) I'll say that your schedule does seem like it makes a significant difference with U18 players. And might be more effective in the lower leagues. But at the elite level, I'm not sure it's the most effective.
Hey bud, if you have a look at the spreadsheets from Part 7 video (th-cam.com/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/w-d-xo.html), you'll be able to see the breakdown of attribute growth into different playing positions. I think your concern is my training schedule making all players 'jacks of all trades'. But that isn't the case - players will develop the attributes that they require depending on their playing positions. Ambition / Professionalism / Determination do not count towards CA ratings of players. I've included these attributes in the excel tables only for record purposes.
You should weigh attribute growth by relevance to meta, would be interesting to see minmax combo for training physicals/ant/cnt/work rate etc meta builds.
I thing do you dont understant traning princple...first general traning versus spec focus traning ..et general traning et defend traning all aspect of defensive play ,next if traning specifical piece of defensive traning
The main question is, are there the differencr from single training session with lot of training session ( combination increase). In another word 1+1 is not 2.Because your sampling method is all based on single training session
Thx for all the works. I watched the whole series on training session and it was kind instructive ! I like the way you present evidences and your method. My only question is, what aspect of the game you gonna analyse next please ? As a fan of the "moneyball aspect" i'd like to know how much stats and analyst staff is required to have a good stats report accuracy. But maybe a boring aspect is it :s. Great vidz !! And ready to see your next one ! Lot of love fom belgium !!
Absolutely love this scientific analysis - most trustworthy, researched FM info out there. I only use these videos tbh when deciding on things. A couple of comments: 1) I really do anecdotally feel Match Practice lives up to its 'greatly increased' injury risk impact. I now tend to go Recovery > Match Practice > Recovery on a day which mitigates this risk. I haven't formally tested that. 2) as you say in the video, this schedule doesn't appear the best if there is an aim to boost team cohesion. Which raises another question - is mentoring boosted by having sessions split into training units like ground defense as opposed to attacking/defending/physical all player sessions?
Hey bud, mentoring is a commonly requested topic but I haven't had a chance yet to test it. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it sometime in the future.
You kinda "ruined" my FM experience after so many years...80% training features/plans are useless according to the data; same thing goes to most of new tactical features. I'm very thankful for it however because now I can concentrate more on building player relationships and scouting. I switched to your training suggestions/plans and the results are great (both on top and lower-league level).
Thanks a lot for this. I'm really curious if it works well in FM20 (long save enjoyer here.) Training was overhauled for that version and it seems very similar so I expect results should be similar.
hey broski. great job once again! it would be cool if you can test ebts23 against other popular TSs and really really cool if you could test team cohesion and tac fam that you always seem to ignore in your schedules. i'm probably fooled by fm again but i always have those as my 1st priority, more than developing the players. thanks for your hard work in any case
hey mate, this year I didn't test EBTS against other popular schedules. I just didn't think it was too necessary. I will be testing team cohesion in the future - it's a commonly requested topic.
Hi, im using your schedule in fm23 and the results ive gotten have been amazing so far! However the tactic I want to use (Gegenpress) combined with EBTS training means my players are always fatiqued and I have to rest them from basically every other game which in turn mean they always complain about playingtime (understandable as anything above Squad Player is difficult and above Regular Starter impossible to maintain due to previously stated reasons) If I drop 1 practice session from the training schedule or replace 1 with recovery it seems as if I can play my players quite a bit more often. Now for the question: What would be better for development, dropping a training session so players can play more games (before I had to rotate squad every other game but with the practice change every 3rd game seems to be enough) or keep your schedule and simply rotate? Players still develop fairly well even with my huge squad-rotations and on one hand that means I get to develop more players I suppose but on the other hand the constant concerns about playingtime and not being able to have any important players causes a lot of other problems.
Hey bud, sorry for the late reply. EBTS is aimed purely at maximising development. It does not consider other factors eg. fatigue, injury risk. I also received similar feedbacks from others that their players were easily fatigued when they used EBTS. So feel free to take out 1-2 sessions/week from the training schedule if your players start showing signs of fatigue. It doesn't matter too much which session you leave out - you can rotate the type of training session that you leave out every week. Adequate amounts of playing time is essential for development, but excessive playing time raises injury risk. So you need to regulate both the amount of training and the amount of playing time to achieve optimal growth without raising injury risk.
I wonder, how does EBTS23 compare to EBTS22? Keep up the good work. I've been using EBTS on and off and there is no denying they get results. Sometimes I'm just lazy and just let the AI do training. Other times I want slightly more "realistic" feeling training schedules and make my own based off the Zealand schedules. But for pure "wonderkid conveyor belt" EBTS is best.
Unbelievable time and effort, applied so systematically and intelligently; this content blows me away Max, well done! One question though - does repeatedly having match practice slots right before games not tire out players rapidly and end up with you starting matches with reduced condition?
Really great video as always. However I can't understand why training sessions in FM23 is so lack of depth.I remember before Sports Interactive overhauls training , it was easy to maintain training.
I found that the schedule is a bit on the heavy side. especially if you have games 2 times a week. the training load is always high and the injury risk for the players is always at least increased and if they played in more than 1 full match in 2 weeks it is high or very high risk for injuries. I ran the schedule with man city and after about 4 weeks of using it I had 5 injured players at the same time. is it really worth the slight boost in attribute growth over the deafult training if you can't keep your players healthy for games?
on 12:51 you say the players were injured for an average of 2 extra days per season. Have you measure the long term impact on their careers that this has? I would imagine it would make them a bit more injury prone in the future?
hey bud, I haven't done any long term measurements, but it may indeed raise the Injury Proneness of the player and make the player more likely to sustain injuries in the future.
Hey bud, nah no plans for a separate youth schedule. Yes training is more important than match exposure for the youth, but I don't believe a separate schedule is necessary.
@@mantorras7752 My series has found that the following 4 sessions are the most powerful & covers the most number of attributes: Defending, Match Practice, Physical, Ground Defence. Since Match Practice has already been used twice in the schedule, another Defending / Physical / Ground Defence on Wednesdays could work.
i do not know if i'm doing something wrong but i'm really struggling with fitness between games. i got half intensity, normal and double on 75+ and upwards.
Nice work, so in-depth! The only FM TH-camr which in my opinion covered training in an in-depth manner like you is Bustthenet Gaming. It would be amazing to do an analysis on your training schedule vs his. Also, does this work with youth?
Just came across your channel today and you're doing such an amazing job with all the time and effort you put these researches. Kudos to you. I have a question though. Is this training schedule recommended for U18 teams as well?
i tried this training and give up after like 4 months this may work on junior teams but it collapse senior team players dont get enough rest you need rotate team every game if you got busy week this is not schedule for a team in england for sure. Players getting very tired even at start of season and became very inconsistent and they just dont perform well in overall .
While using your earlier model I was getting complaints from my attacking players that their training group was being neglected. Ground defence takes care of the defenders. I noted that Chance Conversion targets the attacking training group. I added that into my rotation to ensure that all training groups got targeted. I'll probably do the same for this version. I might also add a GK session for single match weeks to see if it boosts those growth ratings...I think from memory your best performing GK unit was Handling?
Hey bud, I usually just ignore the players' complaints 😅 Training sessions that are the most beneficial for GK attributes (from the Part 7 video): 1. Ground Defence 2. Attacking Overlap 3. Chance Creation Since Attacking Overlap is 'attacking training', you can try throwing in one of these into your weekly schedule and see how you go.
I don't want to ruin your day (and the amazing work you've done), but to demonstrate how reliable the game is when it comes to training I'd suggest you try one thing. As you know, players update their CA - and thus attributes - once a month at fixed intervals. Every time they do the game rolls a dice and the CA increase is somewhat randomized (in my experience the typical range is 0-3, but I've seen it go to 4 at times: that range depends on age, match exposure, training, all that jazz). Anyway, that's not the point: save the game the day before the update for a certain well performing young player you know is gonna trigger a healthy (on average) growth the next day. Look at what his individual training focus is. Go to the next day and look at the increase in attributes related to that focus. Reload. Change the individual training focus to something else. Rinse and repeat. You're gonna be in for a bad surprise. For individual focus (at least, but who knows how many other things it lies about), the game ONLY considers what's set at the moment of the update trigger when calculating what attributes to distribute CA into. The player might have been training shooting for the whole month, but change the focus to heading the last day and BAM!: next day you'll likely see increases in heading and courage (and no additional effect - other than potential increase due to general training - on finishing, long shots, etc, which he *supposedly* had been focusing his training on for a month). Your data has been consistent for two years and thus has to be correct to a certain extent, at least in the extremely controlled test environment you use. But in reality, I fear the game is much shallower than SI's smoke and mirrors try to make it appear.
Hey mate, I've considered using the method you've suggested (save the game just before the growth triggers, then keep reloading). It's something I might try in my future tests. When you say individual training only matters on the day the growth occurs, is this something you've tested yourself? If it's true, I'm not surprised. As you've suggested, I also get the impression that a lot of game mechanics are shallower than they appear 😅
@@ebfm Yep. Some time ago I happened to change the individual focus of a player just before its update by chance, and noticed it immediately seemed to affect the relative attributes (I also use a skin that natively shows hidden attributes and CA/PA so I often immediately notice when there's some numerical shenanigan going on under the hood). So I tried it again a few times, and then again with other players too: behaviour is definitely repeatable. Obviously, there can be some noise (many attributes are affected by general training too, so the effect of individual focus might not always be immediately apparent), but if you try it with certain focuses that don't usually overlap with other sources of increase (things like long throws*, the aforementioned heading - because it also affects courage - etc), it's pretty evident and consistent. And even when they overlap, you can often notice the higher average increase in those focused attributes anyway, thanks to the color coded arrows. I didn't go as far as recording a large sample size to precisely measure the behaviour, because it's really *very* obvious after a few dozen rolls on the right players. I also haven't yet tried to set a focus right before the CA update when the player had NO focus whatsoever before (because I usually give individual focus training to all the young players - which are also those that grow the most making that behaviour better observable), so can't testify for that scenario. Might still be that the game does in fact record the amount of individual training accumulated during the month and then only checks the *TYPE* of that training at the end. It would still be pretty ridiculous, but at least somewhat less infuriating. * Yes, in several tries I've noticed it happening with set pieces attributes like long throws too. I've tried them because they are among those less influenced by general training so you can clearly see the individual focus change having an effect, but as you also observed in the past their growth pattern is strange, so I wouldn't base a more precise measurement of this behaviour only on those, as they can be stubborn and refuse to increase for no apparent reason at times, regardless of when or for how long the focus on them has been activated.
@@kadatherion_ Thanks or sharing your experience. You don't always need a large sample pool, sometimes all it takes it to load & save a few times to notice something obvious. I'll take note of your observations, I may turn it into a full experiment in the future. I've touched in individual instructions briefly in one of my previous videos but didn't dig too much into it.
@@ebfm yup, I've been rummaging a bit in the data from that video of yours because while you seemed to have fairly consistent results with set pieces additional focus, in my games I often struggle to see them give the effect I'd hope for. Problem is, given how inconsistent (and at times blatantly misleading) many mechanics such as this one turn out to be, a lot of the results you noticed in a controlled test environment might not translate very well to the average player experience. I mean, even just the fact each month the dice roll for the CA increase for a young player can go from 1 to 3 at each reload, when your entire schedule was painstakingly tailored to hopefully squeeze a couple more CA points *per season*, tells you how outside of the controlled environment - and under the much smaller sample size of a normal playthrough - the experience might wildly vary from player to player, leading to pretty inconsistent feedback. It's cool the game has so many mechanics that (well, with a couple exceptions) you can't completely turn it upside down by minmaxing just one of them... But half of these mechanics either don't work as described or don't work at all. Which makes the patience you have with it to gather and analyze all this data even more amazing :p
@@kadatherion_ Regarding player growth, it could be worth focusing on the growth of centi-attributes rather than CA. A guy called tdg6661 (could be a girl) publishes FM Cheat Engine Tables that show you the change in centi-attributes (www.patreon.com/tdg6661/posts). I've explained this in the Part 6 video, but every month when growth is triggered, it's the centiattributes that go either up or down, which is reflected in the red/green coloured arrows. The question is this: does training cause growth in CA first which is then distributed evenly among the attributes? Or do the attributes grow first which translates into a higher CA rating? I believe the answer is the latter, since it is possible to tweak the growth of attributes to a certain extent using training sessions / individual training. So if I wanted to assess the effects of features like individual training, it could be better to look at the change in the centi-attributes, rather than the CA. This was the experiment method I wanted to use for this year's training analysis series, but unfortunately the Cheat Engine Table does not yet have a function to export the data into an excel table, which prevented me from using that method. I did message the developer to add the export function so hopefully he/she will add it soon. Then I'll be able to study the effects of individual training more closely.
I presume Lyon and Lille dont have the best facilities and coaches..i wonder how much growth would be with state of the art facilities and 4.5 star coaches in each category. Probably much more, right?
Hey bud, yes, if Lyon and Lille had better facilities & coaches, players would grow more. It would not change the result of the test though since the only variable is the training schedules used (default vs EBTS23).
I noticed you put a Physical session the day immediately after the match and didn't use any Recovery sessions. I was always under the impression that at most you wanna put a light session late on in the day after a match like Goalkeeping to minimise the risk of injuries. How does your schedule affect injuries? I noticed as well the default training the assistant sets up has a Physical session the day after the day after a match, so maybe there is something in that. Personally I always put my most physically demanding sessions in the middle of a week for 1 match weeks that are common in the Sky Bet League One and League Two. What's wrong with using unit sessions like Chance Creation? I always thought that the players who were not in that unit got their chance to work on their roles whereas in the "dark blue" sessions there is no time given to role based training that you'd set in your individual training.
Hey bud, There is no evidence that Physical training session that is placed immediately after a match leads to detrimental effects. Of course it will interrupt with the recovery of player condition, but nothing more than that. It is certainly possible that training immediately after a match increases injury risk - it's just not proven. Chance Creation is a very effective training sessions, it's just not as effective as the sessions that I used (Attacking / Defending / Match practice). Refer to this episode (th-cam.com/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/w-d-xo.html) where I compare the effects of different training sessions in FM23.
I appreciate all the work you do with this. Would also be interested in the tests you have done on the number of training sessions. It seems counterintuitive to not train every day in a week without matches. I do have one slight hesitation with a 'generic' training schedule like this, is that it only looks at boosting total CA increases. This is also the intent, of course, so it is not meant as a criticism, but I wonder sometimes if by focusing on total CA, one might overlook if they are getting the right CA increases. For example, if you are planning for a particular style of play, are there other training sessions that are better than the generic ones? If you are playing counter-attacking, you would want to train pace and acceleration a lot. If playing possession based, you would want passing and technique. These are just examples, but I would be really curious to see, if replacing some of the generic sessions with more specialized ones or simply adding the more specialized ones would be superior, if there is a particular type of player you are interested in developing for your tactics. This is obviously a lot of work to test, since there are numerous tactics and player types, but I would be very interested in seeing a few tests for something like this. Like, how a poacher or a false nine develops according to their roles with this EBTS23 compared to some tweaks that focuses on the strengths of the poacher and false nine.
Hey bud, other people have also asked for more specialised training sessions that can cater for specific team styles. Based on the evidence I've gathered so far, it seems extremely difficult to 'nudge' your players to grow in certain directions. I would also love to find out how, so that I can ignore the growth of the less useful attributes. Strikers for example have no need for attributes like positioning / marking. Another reason I've made a 'generic' training schedule is because you can only have 1 training schedule at a time, so the schedule you use has to cater for the entire team. You can't use one schedule for strikers, another one for defenders etc. Needless to say more research is required. I'm also operating on limited evidence. It might take years to fully uncover the dark secrets of FM 😅
For the weeks I have a game on Saturday but not Wednesday, I'm trying something where I shift the Thursday training over to Wednesday and put Team Bonding in the blank Tuesday spot (to try to combat the Team Cohesion concerns with this schedule) and put three match boosts on Thursday, (Match Tactics, Teamwork, Att. Movement) which shouldn't overwhelm the players fatigue wise but the match boosts should be helpful for the game on Saturday and also if I have a game the following Wednesday.
@@briandietz9524 Hey mate that should be fine, if you don't have any fixtures on Wednesdays you can throw in some additional training sessions to your taste.
Thanks for the great efforts. However I must point out the test you have done is attributes of 20s for coaches. Have you tested it with attributes of 5, 10 and 15? The training may produce different results for perfect coaches. And no team in FM is going to have perfect coaches and physios etc
Hey mate, no I haven't tested with 5/10/15 coaching attributes. I maximised the coaching attributes in order to maximise the growth of players within the timeframe of 1 season. The more I 'pull apart' the amount of growth within the given experiment timeframe, the easier it becomes for the effects of training to show up in the data analysis.
Hi love your schedules and love you put so much work into it, but here are some questions. 1. Rest "Tab" what are your settings here do you set to automatic do you follow physios recommendation or do you have it at a default? 2. Are these your settings during testing phase? "Very poor condition"- no pitch or gym work. "Poor condition" - Half Intensity, "Fair condition" - Normal intensity, "Good" - Normal intensity, "Execelent condition" - Double intensity. 3. does the above settings change when 2 matches per week, does it influence condition recovery since they probably wont be in exelent condition due to load, are there other settings that could have an influence on speedy recovery for instance "fair"-half intensity instead of normal, and if you can boost recovery this way in weeks with 2 matches how much would it ruin skill progression and/or influence injuries?
Hey bud, During the tests ,default settings were used for Training Intensity. None-Half-Half-Normal-Normal In your actual saves, you may need to tweak the Training Intensity depending on your schedule / how tired your players are. I normally set my Training Intensity to None-None-Half-Half-Normal because I just can't stand injuries. In the middle of the season, when you have 2 matches/week, I might even go down to None-None-None-Half-Half.
Does adding like team bonding or something else to rest slots affect growth in negative way? Sorry if this was answered in the video already? For example if Im starting new save team cohesion is pretty low and I would like to raise it. EDIT: have to say the copy and paste bug is infuriating :D
dont have to, some training sessions have features to increase cohesion than wasting your sessions by picking team bonding that purpose just for increasing cohesion only. make it repeatable at least 2 in mid week and dont forget to put rest for 2 or 3 session in one day in midweek or after traveling to next match
I can't even imagine the amount of work and time you have put into this. And we are getting all this for free ! thank you for it all Max !
I look ony first 10 sec of clip and he dont understand basic of traning..people confusion general and speci.traning it is problems in fm..
@@jovicaduro7204 you can always adapt with all the info on his channel
@@dariustchouanhou no budy if you think fm is based on the evidence you have problem with fm ...sory fm is not evidence ..evidence analyzes of event in game must be right explain,..fm is like criminal puzzle like secrets
@@jovicaduro7204delusional
half of my team is injured buddy
Not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need. Nice job as always Max!
I've been using EBTS for half a season now and the growth was immense. There are some tweaks that I made, regarding fatigue I usually rest my players after every match and set my training intensity to none-half-half-half-normal to minimize injuries. Also changing 1 physical session to match tactics could be a solution especially on the day before crucial matches. I just wanna say thank you so much for the amount of time you invest on this amazing work, you are the pinnacle of numberphiles in the FM community. 너무 감사합니다 선생님!
Good to hear you're getting some good results!
But how has your team faired in terms of being match ready, match performances? This is a schedule geared towards attributes growth
I had asked some time ago for a semi pro training schedule and you delivered! So just a message to say thank you!
I wonder if you could do some research on a training schedule geared towards maximizing performance and winning matches? I feel like this schedule is very useful for youth teams for maximizing potential, but I am skeptical about it's effects on performance for senior squads. Also, could you make a guide on how us viewers can conduct our own FM research, and the things you have learned about it?
Thanks mate, love your videos
For the longest time, I have instinctively contemplated using just physical, attacking, defending as my core trainings (without knowing why) and you gave words/data to my instincts. However, because it was instinct, I never went with it until now. Thank you for this. I will trust my instinct more now for this game!
I don't think you should trust your instincts. If you have any questions you should always consult baby jesus through prayer. if you don't hear anything it's because you haven't done enough push ups. if you do 100 push ups and you still don't hear baby jesus, then you have to try sit ups. If after 100 sit ups you don't hear baby jesus, then you have to do jumping jacks. if you don't hear baby jesus after 100 jumping jacks, then you have to try doing the splits. if you can't do the splits, then you need to get bottom surgery. Ask your doctor to cut your muscles with a scalpel so that you can then do the splits. If he doesn't do it, tell him that he's a transphobe.
Your presentation style is truly excellent, clear concise and measured. I don't know what your career path is but I imagine it will be successful!
Thanks mate, I am in healthcare. FM is just a hobby.
If you put 4 Match Days in your custom schedule (Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun), then load it in your calendar, they will become Match Practice sessions (as long as there isn't a match on those days), allowing you to have more than 2, and I've also found that you can add 2 more as the game doesn't realise you have used them yet.
That’s true. And you can even add 21 match practice with this method. But I’ve personally tested that using 21 match practice does not boost the attributes faster than using the mixed training schedule (def+att+phy+match practice+ground def). But I also testified that including 2 match practice is effective. So I personally reckon that including more than 2 match practice does not bring extra marginal benefits.
@@YongjunJin15 i noticed in previous FM that if you add two "Match practice" per week for improving your "tactic knowledges" for example. The first in very effective but the second is better than others sessions but less effective. Maybe, more you add same sessions and less these sessions are effective... Maybe, FM developers want us to mix different sessions in ours training schedules...
Hey mate, I'm aware of the glitch, but didn't really want to rely on a glitch to make a training schedule 😅
question is does adding more than two actually yield any additional benefits?
@@ebfmit’s hardly a glitch, what’s stopping a real team having match practise every day?
Awesome! and once individual roles training has been applied, the effectiveness of match practice will increase significantly. Great job as always Max 👏
As I had written on previous videos' comments, I was already using pretty much this same schedule for a few seasons and I've seen great progress on my players. I'm not surprised this was your final take and I agree that there's probably some other odd combination which works slightly better as the variables are too many, but I can also see that training in general isn't incredibly relevant in general player growth. It's far from what they claim it to be and most features seem to be either ineffective or irrelevant (recovery, set pieces, etc.).
Amazing Schedule! Works like a charm!
Would love to see a Schedule that focuses on Team Cohesion and Match Preperation!
Big fan of your work and approach, Max. Thanks a lot for such effort and sharing your knowledge with us. Greetings from Brasil.
Bro I've been following your series for a long time. You're amazing!
the amount of effort and time that is attributed to this data/findings is impressive and admirable, thanks a bunch
Can’t wait for FM24 update 🤩 counting on you boss 😉
When using your schedule I changed "rest" to "recovery" after Practice and Real matches.
I believe this will help keep injuries to the minimum. Unfortunately I do not possess your analytical skills so I cannot prove this to be the case.
Thanks , again ,for your brilliant work DR
w
Commented this a long time ago but figured I’d give you a heads up. His last video before this one he goes over fitness and recovery and “recovery” does not reduce injury risk in game. Probably an error on SI’s part. Use manual resting instead(right click on player)
I've been using this now for around 2 seasons and with a couple of tweaks I've made, it's brilliant. We're averaging ratings of 8.50 per week every week with around 10 players 9.20 or higher. Thanks!
What kind of tweaks did you make?
Can you share?
Up
Apologies for the lateness in replying. Err so for the two physical sessions I changed the Monday one to possession and the Thursday one to tactical. On Sunday I did match review/Recovery rather than the training sessions. @@briandietz9524
Protect this man at all costs !!!
well done mate 👍 After every one of these i'm on excel for hours trying to find some hidden combinations to min max specific attributes. so much fun
A very big thank you. Very interesting and useful work done by you. A big fan of your channel
What a guy!! Deserves more followers for sure!!
I've been using a similar schedule (based on your conclusions on FM22) for semi-pro teams for 4 1/2 seasons now and I've really liked the results I've had so far. I'm not properley recording the results, but my most important ypungsters have showed excellent progress.
The fun thing is that I my players haven't had a single injury due to training (only those sustained in game) by using this schedule and toning down the intensity of training. Since I used Daveincid's Increase Realism mod pack, this certainly makes my experience different to your tests, but I'm not sure if the lack of injuries are due to that or just an incredible case of luck.
Hey bud, great to hear you've been getting good results. hmm if your players haven't had a SINGLE injury, that does sound a bit odd 😅 Maybe the mod that you're using deleted the injuries from the database?
@@ebfm Well, I think the file related to injury doesn't delete them, at least that's what the description says. It's still odd, I know.
Does your analysis regarding injuries take into account whether they happened in training sessions/matches or is it the whole bunch?
@@dekaan No I didn't separate them. At the end of the season I went into the 'Medical Centre' page to record the total amount of injuries throughout the season, which doesn't separate injuries from training/matches.
I think it's important to mention that while these are probably the best training sessions for player growth, it does not necessarily mean that they are the best for preparing a team for a certain game or to play a particular style. Especially if your team is already close to their potential. Would be nice to see some testing for these scenarios.
But overall thanks a lot for your hard work. Your content is priceless for any FM fan :)
He already proved that "match preparation" has no effect on match performance at all. It just seems to be another "cosmetic future" to add to the list
Yeah i think this is great for smaller teams with not that great facilities and coaches. When you have good coaches and facilities your guys are going to reach their peak at a young age if you give them decent game time. So it's more about getting them the right attributes rather than maximising overall growth. I had a guy gain 25CA (From 79 to 104) between April and April (youth intake day) using the default trainings. Not sure what his PA is. Will see how he does in the next year using a slightly modified version of this training (will swap out 1 defense for 1 chance conversion and 1 chance creation on a rotation basis).
@@Pakinov Fair enough. But I wasn't talking about match preparation only (Assuming you are talking about the training session with that name). For example, when you are playing a final and go to penalties, sometimes you see that some of the players are not motivated to take the kick even though they have high attributes for penalty taking. I was wondering if training penalties the week before the game would have a positive effect.
@@zebetomusic No it doesn't he proved that in the same video their is no effect with any of those "before a match" training sessions. It's in the same video as march preparation.
@@JayJay-qb4wy Maybe not. I like this as a base schedule but team bonding and match review seem important to have in there aswell
Amazing work ! Thank you from France
Great work Max. Your TS for 22 were awesome and still used them for 23.. Going to give these a try now on my save
Thank you so much . I find your analyses brilliant and insightful.
Amazing job! I tried with my road to glory with Bonnyriggs Rose (4th league Scotland) and ended up with a back2back promotion and finally in th SPL 2nd (93 pts) 1 pt behind Celtic...JUST IMPRESSIVE the growth and performance of semi-pro players...WOW!. Got a call frorm Real Betis in trouble, won Copa del Rey vs Atletico de Madrid (2-0) and brought them to the UCL final (and 4th in La Liga)....lost UCL cup in extra time vs Man City 2-1 (116'). Also using in my Juventus career and smashing opponenets with my talented youngsters frrom Next Gen raising up incredibly to the main team. All this using these schedules all the time. In days off I just fill 1 or 2 slots w/set pieces training (penalties, free kicks) and nothing else. Injuries...to me seems ok...nothing more and nothing less than other schedules...so to me seems ok as far as I am concerned THANK YOU SO MUCH...EXCELLEENT JOB!! :) KUTGW
Thank's for your work I want let you know that your training schedule works even on fm21 and probably even better ❤❤💯💯
Thanks for all your work !!
Thank you Max. For thursday and sunday, you can move the rest session at the end of the day, so there's no problem when the team plays away games.
What about Saturday and Tuesday?
You just got a new subscriber. Great content!
Just wanted to say that you are a god. I want to throw money at you but I don't have any. Thank you so much
Thanks Max. Great stuff as always.
Be interesting to how things are in fm24 with later player development and a tweak to match prep
Match practice is a must in training schedules as it works inividual roles as well,
Thank you, Max! Great work
This video can be used as a thesis in universities. Thank you sir.
Thank you for your good work ! ETBS 22 was very good and i'm sure the 23 is too ! Cheers 😁
Another greatVid!! keep up the good work.
Thanks for another awesome video!
Great Video, thank you for putting in the work.
A little constructive criticism: I think you should've tested for statistical significance, using a students t-test would have been helpful to better judge if for example the goalkeepers having worse growth with the custom schedule is significant at all or if it probably was just down to chance.
I might just do it myself later since the raw data is available, thanks for that btw! There are many decent online tools that'll make it easy to test for significance, if you consider doing that for future tests :)
Great tests as always, i would do slight adjustments to your schedule concerning player physical condition with matches, other than that thank you for your hardwork on researching this for us
Thank you, Max!
Hi, does your EBTS23 work for FM24?
thanks for your work from France
Fantastic work. I will download later for my new QPR Season.
I play with wrexham in EFL Two Nd since i moved to this training schedule, I have been getting weekly injuries with 4-7 first teamers out injured constantly. Maybe just bad luck on my side, but I will have to revert to training i used before.
Tremendous work yet again, thanks for this. It's annoying, but you can circumvent the glitches by making a smattering of schedules around when games occur (like a Monday game day for U21 / U18 squads). If you are looking for more things to study, figuring out what types of training help players learn new positions would be on my wish list.
Hey bud, positional training has also been on my to-do-list for a long time. Haven't had the chance yet though, hopefully sometime in the future.
@@ebfm even if you never get around to it, all of this work is great.
i've been using this and to say injuries go up a little is an understatement. basically every one of my main stars has been injured for multiple weeks at a time, and tend to get injured as soon as they come back lol. but the progress i've seen in attributes is extremely noticeable. I'm playing a gegenpress and usually have very low intensity training to keep injuries low
I feel like this is not covered. Yes the assistant manager makes bad choices in terms of what to pick for training, but if you do it yourself you can still get some attribute growth but also stave off fatigue and injuries. Is it possible for you to look into a training sequence that better balances injuries/fatigue as well as increasin attribute growth? as I feel that fatigue and injury risk are much bigger improvements made when doing training yourself vs ai
Hey bud, sorry to hear you've been getting heaps of injuries. I've been playing as Brighton recently with my training schedule and for me injuries haven't been too bad.
I wish I could find a schedule that maximises growth & minimises fatigue at the same time, but not sure if such goal can be achieved in FM.
You might want to just turn down training intensity or take out 1-2 training sessions per week to lower the injury risk on a temporary basis.
Thanks dude your a legend
As aways, another great informative video.
amazing! id love to see someone make a comparsion between this and other player made schedules, take zealands for example, a schedule ive been using for my last few saves, now im gonna try the EBs schedule, but actually knowing the difference might be hard ig. Anyways, thanks and amazing work Max
In FM22 he did a similar comparison to what you are asking for, and EBFM schedule was the best tied with another one (I don't know which one because he didn't wan't to give other's schedules names for respect)
i feel sport interactive didnt try any progress to training as the part of the games itself almost decades, it feels flat whatever special training it is. so kind of funny that only simple solutions to pick certain training sessions obviously to boost players development more significant than exploiting training with tiki taka or gegenpressing everyday schedules. sport interactive should overhaul their training sections, thanks to this channel found these exploits for us, really simple and yet effective based on data analysis ❤
If you look at where the player attribute growth is concentrated though, it's in areas that aren't as necessary to the playing position. Let's look at Angel Gomes, who is a younger player with one of the more pronounced CA differences. But those CA differences are mainly concentrated in Marking and Positioning, when he's an attacking midfielder. Your 16yo centerback increased unnecessarily in crossing, dribbling, finishing, longshots, off the ball. The green might look nice, but it's not going to make a significantly better defender.
It looks like this might be a case of quantity (of attributes improving) over quality of attributes improving.
Some of your positive CA growth also seems to be coming in ambition, professionalism, and determination, which you've said in your previous videos isn't from any type of training. So that makes me think that some of the growth is from other things happening in the game (mentoring? impact of squad personality on young player?)
I'll say that your schedule does seem like it makes a significant difference with U18 players. And might be more effective in the lower leagues. But at the elite level, I'm not sure it's the most effective.
Hey bud, if you have a look at the spreadsheets from Part 7 video (th-cam.com/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/w-d-xo.html), you'll be able to see the breakdown of attribute growth into different playing positions.
I think your concern is my training schedule making all players 'jacks of all trades'. But that isn't the case - players will develop the attributes that they require depending on their playing positions.
Ambition / Professionalism / Determination do not count towards CA ratings of players. I've included these attributes in the excel tables only for record purposes.
wow this is professional work
amazing!
You should weigh attribute growth by relevance to meta, would be interesting to see minmax combo for training physicals/ant/cnt/work rate etc meta builds.
I thing do you dont understant traning princple...first general traning versus spec focus traning ..et general traning et defend traning all aspect of defensive play ,next if traning specifical piece of defensive traning
The main question is, are there the differencr from single training session with lot of training session ( combination increase). In another word 1+1 is not 2.Because your sampling method is all based on single training session
I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on individual training!
Hey bud, Ive touched on it briefly in the Part 5 video (th-cam.com/video/m5WUIpCkDbU/w-d-xo.html).
Thx for all the works. I watched the whole series on training session and it was kind instructive ! I like the way you present evidences and your method. My only question is, what aspect of the game you gonna analyse next please ? As a fan of the "moneyball aspect" i'd like to know how much stats and analyst staff is required to have a good stats report accuracy. But maybe a boring aspect is it :s. Great vidz !! And ready to see your next one ! Lot of love fom belgium !!
Thanks mate, not sure yet which aspect of the game to cover next. I'm thinking either financial or tactics. We'll see.
I never use any training but maybe I will try something!
Awesome man
Absolutely love this scientific analysis - most trustworthy, researched FM info out there. I only use these videos tbh when deciding on things.
A couple of comments:
1) I really do anecdotally feel Match Practice lives up to its 'greatly increased' injury risk impact. I now tend to go Recovery > Match Practice > Recovery on a day which mitigates this risk. I haven't formally tested that.
2) as you say in the video, this schedule doesn't appear the best if there is an aim to boost team cohesion.
Which raises another question - is mentoring boosted by having sessions split into training units like ground defense as opposed to attacking/defending/physical all player sessions?
Hey bud, mentoring is a commonly requested topic but I haven't had a chance yet to test it. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it sometime in the future.
You kinda "ruined" my FM experience after so many years...80% training features/plans are useless according to the data; same thing goes to most of new tactical features. I'm very thankful for it however because now I can concentrate more on building player relationships and scouting. I switched to your training suggestions/plans and the results are great (both on top and lower-league level).
Hey, good to hear you've been getting good results. I think I've ruined FM for many people 😅 what have I done!
you def should upload this direct to the steam workshop, with videos etc, your content is pretty good
Amazing work!
Thank you for your research!
Thanks a lot for this. I'm really curious if it works well in FM20 (long save enjoyer here.) Training was overhauled for that version and it seems very similar so I expect results should be similar.
Hey bud, not sure whether it will work in FM20. But given that not much has changed between FM20~FM23, you can feel free to give it a try.
Awesome work. Thanks very much. You should get yourself a white lab coat!
hey broski. great job once again! it would be cool if you can test ebts23 against other popular TSs and really really cool if you could test team cohesion and tac fam that you always seem to ignore in your schedules. i'm probably fooled by fm again but i always have those as my 1st priority, more than developing the players. thanks for your hard work in any case
hey mate, this year I didn't test EBTS against other popular schedules. I just didn't think it was too necessary.
I will be testing team cohesion in the future - it's a commonly requested topic.
Hi, im using your schedule in fm23 and the results ive gotten have been amazing so far! However the tactic I want to use (Gegenpress) combined with EBTS training means my players are always fatiqued and I have to rest them from basically every other game which in turn mean they always complain about playingtime (understandable as anything above Squad Player is difficult and above Regular Starter impossible to maintain due to previously stated reasons)
If I drop 1 practice session from the training schedule or replace 1 with recovery it seems as if I can play my players quite a bit more often.
Now for the question: What would be better for development, dropping a training session so players can play more games (before I had to rotate squad every other game but with the practice change every 3rd game seems to be enough) or keep your schedule and simply rotate?
Players still develop fairly well even with my huge squad-rotations and on one hand that means I get to develop more players I suppose but on the other hand the constant concerns about playingtime and not being able to have any important players causes a lot of other problems.
Hey bud, sorry for the late reply.
EBTS is aimed purely at maximising development. It does not consider other factors eg. fatigue, injury risk.
I also received similar feedbacks from others that their players were easily fatigued when they used EBTS.
So feel free to take out 1-2 sessions/week from the training schedule if your players start showing signs of fatigue. It doesn't matter too much which session you leave out - you can rotate the type of training session that you leave out every week.
Adequate amounts of playing time is essential for development, but excessive playing time raises injury risk. So you need to regulate both the amount of training and the amount of playing time to achieve optimal growth without raising injury risk.
@@ebfmThanks for the reply, most contentmakers wouldnt respond to a comment on a 10 month old video at all so im just happy you did!
I wonder, how does EBTS23 compare to EBTS22?
Keep up the good work. I've been using EBTS on and off and there is no denying they get results.
Sometimes I'm just lazy and just let the AI do training. Other times I want slightly more "realistic" feeling training schedules and make my own based off the Zealand schedules. But for pure "wonderkid conveyor belt" EBTS is best.
Hey bud, EBTS22 and 23 are pretty similar, which is probably because the game mechanics hasn't changed much from FM22 to FM23.
this training schedule is too extreme, even I have 2 teams rotation couldn't stop the injury problems.
Unbelievable time and effort, applied so systematically and intelligently; this content blows me away Max, well done! One question though - does repeatedly having match practice slots right before games not tire out players rapidly and end up with you starting matches with reduced condition?
If i ever would be a football manager in real life, i hire you as my analyst :D
Awesome. Would love to see comparison of intensity - could I get away with running ebts with low intensity against medium intensity default schedule
Really great video as always. However I can't understand why training sessions in FM23 is so lack of depth.I remember before Sports Interactive overhauls training , it was easy to maintain training.
I found that the schedule is a bit on the heavy side. especially if you have games 2 times a week. the training load is always high and the injury risk for the players is always at least increased and if they played in more than 1 full match in 2 weeks it is high or very high risk for injuries. I ran the schedule with man city and after about 4 weeks of using it I had 5 injured players at the same time. is it really worth the slight boost in attribute growth over the deafult training if you can't keep your players healthy for games?
on 12:51 you say the players were injured for an average of 2 extra days per season. Have you measure the long term impact on their careers that this has? I would imagine it would make them a bit more injury prone in the future?
hey bud, I haven't done any long term measurements, but it may indeed raise the Injury Proneness of the player and make the player more likely to sustain injuries in the future.
Great job Max. Will you be making a Under-18 schedule? Apparently this group benefits from more training since they won't be playing First Team games.
Hey bud, nah no plans for a separate youth schedule. Yes training is more important than match exposure for the youth, but I don't believe a separate schedule is necessary.
@@ebfm what would you recommend adding on Wednesday for youth?
@@mantorras7752 My series has found that the following 4 sessions are the most powerful & covers the most number of attributes:
Defending, Match Practice, Physical, Ground Defence.
Since Match Practice has already been used twice in the schedule, another Defending / Physical / Ground Defence on Wednesdays could work.
@@ebfm How about for weeks with no matches. Should I add Defending / Physical / Ground Defense on both Wednesday and Saturday?
@@mantorras7752 Not necessary. More sessions do not necessarily mean more growth. It could be better just to conserve the fitness of your players.
i do not know if i'm doing something wrong but i'm really struggling with fitness between games. i got half intensity, normal and double on 75+ and upwards.
Nice work, so in-depth! The only FM TH-camr which in my opinion covered training in an in-depth manner like you is Bustthenet Gaming. It would be amazing to do an analysis on your training schedule vs his. Also, does this work with youth?
Hey mate, you can use the same schedule for the youth.
Just came across your channel today and you're doing such an amazing job with all the time and effort you put these researches. Kudos to you.
I have a question though. Is this training schedule recommended for U18 teams as well?
Hey bud, yes you can use the same training schedule for the youth. I'll be addressing this issue more in the next video.
Bro I’m sad to see you go you will be missed could you answer me this can this be used for fm24
I must be doing something wrong, all my players are tired all the time and never match fit 🤔
i tried this training and give up after like 4 months this may work on junior teams but it collapse senior team players dont get enough rest you need rotate team every game if you got busy week this is not schedule for a team in england for sure. Players getting very tired even at start of season and became very inconsistent and they just dont perform well in overall .
While using your earlier model I was getting complaints from my attacking players that their training group was being neglected. Ground defence takes care of the defenders. I noted that Chance Conversion targets the attacking training group. I added that into my rotation to ensure that all training groups got targeted. I'll probably do the same for this version. I might also add a GK session for single match weeks to see if it boosts those growth ratings...I think from memory your best performing GK unit was Handling?
Hey bud, I usually just ignore the players' complaints 😅
Training sessions that are the most beneficial for GK attributes (from the Part 7 video):
1. Ground Defence
2. Attacking Overlap
3. Chance Creation
Since Attacking Overlap is 'attacking training', you can try throwing in one of these into your weekly schedule and see how you go.
@@ebfm Thanks for your reply mate! Good advice, I'll take it. Appreciate your work and have enjoyed your series of videos.
@@ebfm Add one of these on Tuesday, in the free middle slot?
@@dartsoft Sure, you can add extra sessions in any of the free slots.
awesome Max was looking forward to this one. Would you recommend using this for your youth teams?
If you read the comments he already answered this. He says yes.
Hey mate, yes you can use the same schedule for the youth team.
I don't want to ruin your day (and the amazing work you've done), but to demonstrate how reliable the game is when it comes to training I'd suggest you try one thing.
As you know, players update their CA - and thus attributes - once a month at fixed intervals. Every time they do the game rolls a dice and the CA increase is somewhat randomized (in my experience the typical range is 0-3, but I've seen it go to 4 at times: that range depends on age, match exposure, training, all that jazz). Anyway, that's not the point: save the game the day before the update for a certain well performing young player you know is gonna trigger a healthy (on average) growth the next day. Look at what his individual training focus is. Go to the next day and look at the increase in attributes related to that focus. Reload. Change the individual training focus to something else. Rinse and repeat. You're gonna be in for a bad surprise.
For individual focus (at least, but who knows how many other things it lies about), the game ONLY considers what's set at the moment of the update trigger when calculating what attributes to distribute CA into. The player might have been training shooting for the whole month, but change the focus to heading the last day and BAM!: next day you'll likely see increases in heading and courage (and no additional effect - other than potential increase due to general training - on finishing, long shots, etc, which he *supposedly* had been focusing his training on for a month).
Your data has been consistent for two years and thus has to be correct to a certain extent, at least in the extremely controlled test environment you use. But in reality, I fear the game is much shallower than SI's smoke and mirrors try to make it appear.
Hey mate, I've considered using the method you've suggested (save the game just before the growth triggers, then keep reloading). It's something I might try in my future tests.
When you say individual training only matters on the day the growth occurs, is this something you've tested yourself? If it's true, I'm not surprised. As you've suggested, I also get the impression that a lot of game mechanics are shallower than they appear 😅
@@ebfm Yep. Some time ago I happened to change the individual focus of a player just before its update by chance, and noticed it immediately seemed to affect the relative attributes (I also use a skin that natively shows hidden attributes and CA/PA so I often immediately notice when there's some numerical shenanigan going on under the hood). So I tried it again a few times, and then again with other players too: behaviour is definitely repeatable.
Obviously, there can be some noise (many attributes are affected by general training too, so the effect of individual focus might not always be immediately apparent), but if you try it with certain focuses that don't usually overlap with other sources of increase (things like long throws*, the aforementioned heading - because it also affects courage - etc), it's pretty evident and consistent. And even when they overlap, you can often notice the higher average increase in those focused attributes anyway, thanks to the color coded arrows.
I didn't go as far as recording a large sample size to precisely measure the behaviour, because it's really *very* obvious after a few dozen rolls on the right players.
I also haven't yet tried to set a focus right before the CA update when the player had NO focus whatsoever before (because I usually give individual focus training to all the young players - which are also those that grow the most making that behaviour better observable), so can't testify for that scenario. Might still be that the game does in fact record the amount of individual training accumulated during the month and then only checks the *TYPE* of that training at the end. It would still be pretty ridiculous, but at least somewhat less infuriating.
* Yes, in several tries I've noticed it happening with set pieces attributes like long throws too. I've tried them because they are among those less influenced by general training so you can clearly see the individual focus change having an effect, but as you also observed in the past their growth pattern is strange, so I wouldn't base a more precise measurement of this behaviour only on those, as they can be stubborn and refuse to increase for no apparent reason at times, regardless of when or for how long the focus on them has been activated.
@@kadatherion_ Thanks or sharing your experience. You don't always need a large sample pool, sometimes all it takes it to load & save a few times to notice something obvious.
I'll take note of your observations, I may turn it into a full experiment in the future. I've touched in individual instructions briefly in one of my previous videos but didn't dig too much into it.
@@ebfm yup, I've been rummaging a bit in the data from that video of yours because while you seemed to have fairly consistent results with set pieces additional focus, in my games I often struggle to see them give the effect I'd hope for.
Problem is, given how inconsistent (and at times blatantly misleading) many mechanics such as this one turn out to be, a lot of the results you noticed in a controlled test environment might not translate very well to the average player experience. I mean, even just the fact each month the dice roll for the CA increase for a young player can go from 1 to 3 at each reload, when your entire schedule was painstakingly tailored to hopefully squeeze a couple more CA points *per season*, tells you how outside of the controlled environment - and under the much smaller sample size of a normal playthrough - the experience might wildly vary from player to player, leading to pretty inconsistent feedback.
It's cool the game has so many mechanics that (well, with a couple exceptions) you can't completely turn it upside down by minmaxing just one of them... But half of these mechanics either don't work as described or don't work at all. Which makes the patience you have with it to gather and analyze all this data even more amazing :p
@@kadatherion_ Regarding player growth, it could be worth focusing on the growth of centi-attributes rather than CA.
A guy called tdg6661 (could be a girl) publishes FM Cheat Engine Tables that show you the change in centi-attributes (www.patreon.com/tdg6661/posts).
I've explained this in the Part 6 video, but every month when growth is triggered, it's the centiattributes that go either up or down, which is reflected in the red/green coloured arrows.
The question is this: does training cause growth in CA first which is then distributed evenly among the attributes? Or do the attributes grow first which translates into a higher CA rating? I believe the answer is the latter, since it is possible to tweak the growth of attributes to a certain extent using training sessions / individual training.
So if I wanted to assess the effects of features like individual training, it could be better to look at the change in the centi-attributes, rather than the CA.
This was the experiment method I wanted to use for this year's training analysis series, but unfortunately the Cheat Engine Table does not yet have a function to export the data into an excel table, which prevented me from using that method. I did message the developer to add the export function so hopefully he/she will add it soon. Then I'll be able to study the effects of individual training more closely.
I presume Lyon and Lille dont have the best facilities and coaches..i wonder how much growth would be with state of the art facilities and 4.5 star coaches in each category. Probably much more, right?
Hey bud, yes, if Lyon and Lille had better facilities & coaches, players would grow more. It would not change the result of the test though since the only variable is the training schedules used (default vs EBTS23).
Great work Max. So EBTS23 outperforms the default schedules. But does it surpass other schedules by creators such as BTN or Zealand?
Thanks mate, didn't want to do a comparison like last year, because you know, didn't think it was entirely necessary
Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. It's more about preference. Some prefer Coke and some prefer Pepsi
Any changes for FM24?
what a legend
I noticed you put a Physical session the day immediately after the match and didn't use any Recovery sessions. I was always under the impression that at most you wanna put a light session late on in the day after a match like Goalkeeping to minimise the risk of injuries. How does your schedule affect injuries? I noticed as well the default training the assistant sets up has a Physical session the day after the day after a match, so maybe there is something in that. Personally I always put my most physically demanding sessions in the middle of a week for 1 match weeks that are common in the Sky Bet League One and League Two.
What's wrong with using unit sessions like Chance Creation? I always thought that the players who were not in that unit got their chance to work on their roles whereas in the "dark blue" sessions there is no time given to role based training that you'd set in your individual training.
Hey bud,
There is no evidence that Physical training session that is placed immediately after a match leads to detrimental effects. Of course it will interrupt with the recovery of player condition, but nothing more than that.
It is certainly possible that training immediately after a match increases injury risk - it's just not proven.
Chance Creation is a very effective training sessions, it's just not as effective as the sessions that I used (Attacking / Defending / Match practice).
Refer to this episode (th-cam.com/video/cRng3wiZ4UE/w-d-xo.html) where I compare the effects of different training sessions in FM23.
I appreciate all the work you do with this. Would also be interested in the tests you have done on the number of training sessions. It seems counterintuitive to not train every day in a week without matches.
I do have one slight hesitation with a 'generic' training schedule like this, is that it only looks at boosting total CA increases. This is also the intent, of course, so it is not meant as a criticism, but I wonder sometimes if by focusing on total CA, one might overlook if they are getting the right CA increases. For example, if you are planning for a particular style of play, are there other training sessions that are better than the generic ones? If you are playing counter-attacking, you would want to train pace and acceleration a lot. If playing possession based, you would want passing and technique. These are just examples, but I would be really curious to see, if replacing some of the generic sessions with more specialized ones or simply adding the more specialized ones would be superior, if there is a particular type of player you are interested in developing for your tactics. This is obviously a lot of work to test, since there are numerous tactics and player types, but I would be very interested in seeing a few tests for something like this. Like, how a poacher or a false nine develops according to their roles with this EBTS23 compared to some tweaks that focuses on the strengths of the poacher and false nine.
Hey bud, other people have also asked for more specialised training sessions that can cater for specific team styles. Based on the evidence I've gathered so far, it seems extremely difficult to 'nudge' your players to grow in certain directions. I would also love to find out how, so that I can ignore the growth of the less useful attributes. Strikers for example have no need for attributes like positioning / marking.
Another reason I've made a 'generic' training schedule is because you can only have 1 training schedule at a time, so the schedule you use has to cater for the entire team. You can't use one schedule for strikers, another one for defenders etc.
Needless to say more research is required. I'm also operating on limited evidence. It might take years to fully uncover the dark secrets of FM 😅
For the weeks I have a game on Saturday but not Wednesday, I'm trying something where I shift the Thursday training over to Wednesday and put Team Bonding in the blank Tuesday spot (to try to combat the Team Cohesion concerns with this schedule) and put three match boosts on Thursday, (Match Tactics, Teamwork, Att. Movement) which shouldn't overwhelm the players fatigue wise but the match boosts should be helpful for the game on Saturday and also if I have a game the following Wednesday.
@@briandietz9524 Hey mate that should be fine, if you don't have any fixtures on Wednesdays you can throw in some additional training sessions to your taste.
Here we go.......❤❤
Tnx a lot, m8! How much do the coaches, individual training, and rest affect the training schedule?
Thanks for the great efforts. However I must point out the test you have done is attributes of 20s for coaches. Have you tested it with attributes of 5, 10 and 15? The training may produce different results for perfect coaches. And no team in FM is going to have perfect coaches and physios etc
Hey mate, no I haven't tested with 5/10/15 coaching attributes. I maximised the coaching attributes in order to maximise the growth of players within the timeframe of 1 season. The more I 'pull apart' the amount of growth within the given experiment timeframe, the easier it becomes for the effects of training to show up in the data analysis.
Hi love your schedules and love you put so much work into it, but here are some questions.
1. Rest "Tab" what are your settings here do you set to automatic do you follow physios recommendation or do you have it at a default?
2. Are these your settings during testing phase? "Very poor condition"- no pitch or gym work. "Poor condition" - Half Intensity, "Fair condition" - Normal intensity, "Good" - Normal intensity, "Execelent condition" - Double intensity.
3. does the above settings change when 2 matches per week, does it influence condition recovery since they probably wont be in exelent condition due to load, are there other settings that could have an influence on speedy recovery for instance "fair"-half intensity instead of normal, and if you can boost recovery this way in weeks with 2 matches how much would it ruin skill progression and/or influence injuries?
Hey bud,
During the tests ,default settings were used for Training Intensity. None-Half-Half-Normal-Normal
In your actual saves, you may need to tweak the Training Intensity depending on your schedule / how tired your players are. I normally set my Training Intensity to None-None-Half-Half-Normal because I just can't stand injuries.
In the middle of the season, when you have 2 matches/week, I might even go down to None-None-None-Half-Half.
ty for the aswner will try this out m8
@@ebfm
@@ebfmbut default intensity is none-half- normal - normal - normal
Does adding like team bonding or something else to rest slots affect growth in negative way? Sorry if this was answered in the video already? For example if Im starting new save team cohesion is pretty low and I would like to raise it. EDIT: have to say the copy and paste bug is infuriating :D
dont have to, some training sessions have features to increase cohesion than wasting your sessions by picking team bonding that purpose just for increasing cohesion only. make it repeatable at least 2 in mid week and dont forget to put rest for 2 or 3 session in one day in midweek or after traveling to next match