Having spent quite a bit of time putting lightening protection schemes and manuals together for companies that use land based towers for comms, I very much appreciate your using science to develop your scheme instead of wives tales, sea stories and anecdotal false positives. Lightening is simply the result of a difference of potentials that use the least resistant path to equalize and when this path has resistance, heat is the biproduct. Intense heat, that excites the atoms and converts the gaseous state of matter into the plasma state. The secret, as you pointed out, is to first try and reduce the probability that you are the most conductive path and then to give the flow of electrons, a clean path in which to equalize. I have heard of people who think that using their metal through holes and water systems as a path, but this is incredibly dangerous and can easily lead to a major hull breach. Avoid 90 degree angles on your ground tails and make any turns in direction as gentle as possible. Not only unplug antennas, but also power supplies if lightening is probable. I am not sure how I feel about your copper run along the bilge, but obviously it has worked for you. My personal thoughts are to use the guys and stays, but there are risk with this as well as any conductor is basically a large fusible link and in the right strike potential, could burn out and cause a demasting issue. But as you point out, it is about reducing risk. Thanks for your video.
Thanks for your comment Scott. I've pinned it to the top as you have made some very good points. I wish I had mentioned the point you made about no sharp turns. I agree with you about thruhulls. NO WIRES TO THRUHULLS! I know that is against popular opinion but bonding thruhulls can cause them to loose their zinc and fail. As for my strap in water. That area of the bilge is usually dry. We just had a lot of rain and water coming down the mast collected there because of a clogged limber hole. Again thanks for your comment. Clark
Hi Scott, thanks for your thoughts. Yes, the stays, and yes the risk. That is why I am thinking of creating a separate copper subsidiary stay to the masthead to give the lightning a guided path. The stainless stays are relatively high resistance compared to copper. Then it comes down to what details the masthead device should have, and the tail to the water. I am thinking that the tail can be incorporated into a specially made fender to disguise the lightning tail and to space the line a little distance away from the hull. The copper for a quick installation can be aircraft wire flex as this is silver plated and should last longer in the elements.
@@williambunting803 Just to make sure that I understand, you are talking about adding a fake stay and not replacing one with the aircraft wire flex? The copper and silver would stretch too much to be good stay material on their own. This would definitely protect the stays and guys from becoming a fusible link and in the marina, the fender idea would look neater. But, if just left exposed, the copper tinned alloy would oxidize fairly quickly and especially underwater, it would quickly give up their free electrons to electrolysis. This is fairly similar to how we protect communications towers and the radios. The difference being that the antenna cabling (copper) has a specific use and we attach ground tails on the legs or base of towers to a ground ring that is attached to ground rods. The copper comes into the communications building and immediately goes through a TVSS (trans voltage surge suppressor) which acts as a fusible link and has a ground tail on the tower side, which is connected to a ground bar, connected to a halo and path to ground. I have been in a shelter during a strike and it was frightening, but it works. I am not sure that it would function well though if left installed for a long period of time (due to oxidation and increased resistance compared to the stainless we use the tower itself for the main conduit) compared to a quick fit tail from the stay. Also, if it is used just during potential strike periods, how and were would it be stored? If using an exane or welding type cable, it is fairly heavy and cumbersome for an additional 80' to 120' to be stored where it is accessible quickly yet kept dry and clean. (electron flow is on the surface of the copper and not through it's core). On a boat that gets hit frequently, it may make sense, but if it's on a boat that rarely gets hit, I don't think it makes cost sense for a permanently but frequently replaced system, but I am always open to being corrected. If you have some of the engineering and or build one, I would be very interested in seeing your product.
@@williambunting803 In my other comment I talk about cost. To clarify, a comm tower may have well over $100K spent on it's lightening protection to protect the radio cabinets and contents which can be worth well over $500K per unit. They use disposable TVSS's that can be replaced per strike and these can cost upward to $1000 apiece. This makes financial sense when there may be between $500K to several million dollars worth of equipment. On a boat worth up to 300K, that is not your home and livelihood, it has to be tailored respectively. I do not see your cost being anywhere close to $100K like a communication tower, and an exane type cable that runs along the stay would only have exposure at the connections and in the water. Sorry, I am still running my thoughts over on this and should take more time to think through.
@@ScottLaneSabineParish Yes Scott, this will be a dummy stay purely as a lightning rod. Copper can be titanium coated for corrosion protection. I haven’t done it yet but I have copper parts that operate in phosphoric acid and high temperature and from other experiments I am sure this works, though doing it to wire would require a supplier to want to do it. The last metre to the water can be Carbon fibre which eliminates the corrosion problem. Perhaps you could suggest how much copper is required for the stay, sqmm? And what is the condition of a lightning conductor after it has taken a hit? What are your thoughts on the dissipator collector end? The more I think about this the more certain I am that it is vital to keep the electricity flowing outside and around the boat. The next part of this is to come up to speed on surge arrestors.
Thanks Charles. I hope you look through our older videos. I'm sure you will find other videos that you'd like. Emily keeps our playlists in order so you might choose to use those to make your searching easier.
I have lived on my Ericson since 1993 and have sailed all over as well. I had a friend whose boat was struck and ironically he was a boat insurance underwriter. He FAILED to take all his own advice and his boat took a very damaging lightening hit. So, people, pay attention. This is real and everything being said here is TRUE and life saving. Thanks for the video.
I was utility engineer for Emory university in Atlanta in the mid 90s. We had a building that took repeated lightning strikes, causing damage to control systems every time. After a bit of research we installed an atomic lightning rod. It uses an isotope that produces enough energy to ionize the air around it-similar to a dissipator. No strikes since....
Couple details: 1) Sky and earth are oppositely charged. 2) Current takes the path of least impedance, not least resistance. Impedance is a combination of resistance, inductance and capacitance. For boat purposes, inductance is crucial. Inductance is any geometry that makes a magnetic field when current passes through. Straight-lines make the least inductance and loops make the most. Skinny-paths make more inductance than wide-paths. So, loop instrument-wiring and straight-line lightning-rods. Lightning jumps gaps and punches through insulators. Lightning is explosively hot. So make lightning-rod the best path (away from anything you don't want punched-through or overheated) to the ocean's surface. And "best" being lowest impedance. Remember, lightning-rod conductor is going to get explosively hot too, secure it accordingly.
@@cakepastawhey5095 - Maybe? Problem with plates embedded in fiberglass is that if the current runs along the boundary (and it always seems to), it'll burn the fiberglass. Lightning travels on the surface of conductors, so while having thick metal is a great heat-sink for the metal, it doesn't help the fiberglass much. That's how holes typically get blown through. Am a physicist/engineer, not an experienced sailor. Barring a tried-and-true pre-existing solution, I'd (more...) ...run some large diameter braided coax cable from the Dissipator, down the mast on standoff insulators, straight down to the waterline where a brass-fan would skim the water's surface, thus spreading any current over the water's surface (presuming a catamaran)? Using the coax's large diameter outer braid as the conductor between the Dissipator and the brass grounding-fan. Using the mast itself, chains, chain-plates, etc., seems to be where many boats incur lightning damage? By making the path the best, least impedance, not-touching-the-boat path, it minimizes lightning going to unpredictable paths. Most ignore the inductance-factor when charting a path, when inductance is far more critical than resistance. Minimize resistance too, because that's what causes heat; but inductance will make lightning jump right off a copper-wire and take an unpredictable path. If it were advisable to ground the boat itself (as many have suggested), it might be best to use the same low-inductance principles and connect to the cable as close to the waterline as is practical? Perhaps just below the trampoline, for example?
The power of lightning is impressive. We were hit offshore in the North Atlantic on a tug I was working on years ago. It hit the signal mast and ran down the side of the hull where it blew the paint right off the steel hull in sheets. Stripped the area to clean steel better then any sandblaster I’ve every seen. It ran down to one of the chains that attach the tires to the hull vaporizing it! I noticed the missing tire when the sun came up and figured it just got ripped off in the rough weather (a common occurrence) but upon further investigation discovered that the chain has been vaporized and there was slag and spatter on the bulwarks from the chain! Fortunately it didn’t damage anything electrical. It didn’t even cook any electronics in the upper wheelhouse. After seeing what it did to that 3/4 inch chain I have a whole new respect for lighting.
I was once caught in a storm on a shrimp trawler, as we fought our way back to more protected waters we received a call over the radio from a fellow trawler not far behind us running towards the same cover. They told us we had took a strike and our stern was on fire. I had just come in from the stern from lashing things down to prevent losing them overboard so naturally I was confused, we had a nearby strike but I knew we hadn't taken one and couldn't be on fire. I stepped back out the door and the entirety of the rigging was alight with St. Elmo's Fire, truly the wildest natural phenomenon I have ever seen. I felt like I was inside one of those electric plasma globes children play with. Come to find out, St. Elmo's Fire on a boat is a good sign of a proper ionic charge transfer that should prevent you from being struck.
Really great video. As a teen sailing in a race many years ago, I experienced the worst lightning in my life…. Truly terrifying soaking wet on a 22 foot boat with sails out of control with the mast waving back and forth with steel cables all around which we were holding to stay on the boat….I really thought about swimming to get away from the boat….ugh still makes my stomach turn. Anyway thanks for the great info.
I really am glad you created this episode. This is very useful information for us. Most people just say there's nothing that you can do about lightning. To me that sounds like giving up. Our boat has a deck stepped mast. The port chainplate is connected to a keel bolt with a cable. The keel is cast iron, huge and not encapsulated except for bottom paint. This is the factory setup from Beneteau. Before we purchased the boat it had been struck and the electronics were a total loss. I'd like to reduce the chance of that happening going forward as we have just replaced the electronics throughout the boat. I've eliminated all the mast wiring except for the steaming light as a hedge against charge entering the electrical system. I'd like to add a surge protector to that circuit. A static dissipater is something we could add. I'd appreciate any comments or thoughts you may have about our setup. Great video.
I like your vid Clark. The reason why you’re still getting hit is that your dissipator needs many more points. When you replace your knackered one, add multiple units. It’s all about suppressing the bld up of charge so your corona doesn’t get overwhelmed and the ions saturate. Saturation is bad. Add a bunch more points to maintain the corona (st elmos fire). Good luck 👍🏻
Is a wooden boat with wooden mast and stainless rigging more or less likely to get hit by lightning? Should I have a ground cable that I can attach from my stays/chainplates to the water?
What an awesome, well-spoken and captivating storyteller! And so full of good useable information. This is now my number one channel! Thanks for all you bring here!
Used to see fiberglass saltwater tanks hit by lighting all of the time, even the ones with official tower type lighting protection. The chlorides in the salt water were the same as the Gulf of Texas water, so in my mind on a boat the salt water is like a negative asking for a positive to feed it. It has been years since I was at sea, so thank you for your elaborate dissertation, way more than I knew.
My first lightning experience on a sailboat happened while I was at the helm and a storm came at us between Greece and Sicily. No shelter, no joy. Neither I nor crew had any experience and weren't sure what to do. We hove to, and stayed below deck away from the mast and electronics and rode it out while lightning burst all around us for about an hour (seemed like hours). Thanks for sharing your insights and experience. Pretty certain I'll be better prepared next time learning from you.
Nice vid, one other issue I would add is your DC electrics that go up the mast need to be powered via a DC-DC isolated power supply. That prevents the earth in each device up in the sky from being a path to ground. So nav lights, radios, gps, wind gear etc. Classed vessels also have this for a reason.
Just met a couple last night who suffered a strike and had to replace 90% of their electronics in Lake Erie. Thank goodness their hull was not damaged & they were both safe. I mentioned your channel to them, if they are still at AYC to day, I will definitely suggest watching again. Such great info. Sure appreciate sharing practical, well researched & applied applications. Be well.
Old sailor I have sailed with carried a pair of jumper cables. When lightening starts he would one end of the jumper cable to the mast and threw the other end into the water. Sounds logical since he has never be struck.
Nice explanation. Nice advice.. well done. Perfect stament to check the bonding of your boat. Discharge of acces static energy is the key of success. The ion broom thing is ( false hope ) for me . You may as well wetten the mast because that does a better job dissipating static build up. I don’t like attraction rods of any kind on any vehicle. your analysis about how the static electricity is build and if is negative or possible is not correct but it does give picture how it comes up to you. One key is dissipating static discharge. One is move the boat . Don’t sit at steal cable or anchor chain. If so have nylon line in between. Bonding check ref to aviation technology.. you need a megger tester. I’m never go hit by any lighting. And i do sail for 40 years.
Wood mast on a wood boat. I generally clip a battery booster cable to a shroud and put the other end in the water. Red handled cable on the port side of course.
Wow, I've got a gaff rig stainless stays on a wooden mast with about 3ft of wooden mast above the cross trees where the stays attach if I put a jumper cable on the stays into the water is the top of the mast in more danger because I made a easier path for the lighting? 😱
Interesting. I theory would argue that the chances of being hit go down so much that it's less important what happens if you are hit. I know I'd rather loose a mast tip then have a hole in my hull.
@@Clarks-Adventure yeah you've got a great discussion going here... I liked the explanation of which clouds are the threat, it's clouds ready to discharge in your immediate area. As I understand if the distance from the cloud to the water is shorter at the moment of the lightning strike then the bolt will follow that path, but if the distance from cloud to your mast is shorter then it will follow that route so for a given mast height there is a general geometric equation that will predict weather a charged cloud will strike your mast or thewater. .. and the taller the mast the larger the area of sea which is further from the clouds than your mast tip... sooooo you guys seem to be saying that if you are in the danger zone it's better to be assisting with the dissipating of the charge than trying not to be conducive ... thanks for the discussion!
Something that helps and I am surprised I don't see this more often, is completely separate circuits between house and nav. Yes you can switch off nav, radio etc at your control panel, but I am talking about a completely separate panel with an inline kill switch so you can completely disconnect your expensive equipment from everything else. At anchor/dock you don't need them and while out at sea you can still navigate with paper chart and if you are in the middle of the ocean, you can just turn your chart plotters back on when the storm passes. I have seen many people complain about loosing expensive systems that shouldn't have even been on because they are still connected and the lightning has been able to fry them. It also helps not making the radar mast the highest point on the boat like most motor yacht manufacturers do.
Clark, I love your videos. You always ask for discussion topic suggestions... this is a really good one. How would you install a bonding strap in a modern boat? How does the bonding strap connect to the water-metal-ground? How do you splice peripherals (engine, stanchions, mast, etc) onto the bonding strap? Connections make the circuit.
Good idea. But I don't think it needs a video. Just drill a hole in the end of the strap. Put it over an existing bolt and tighten the nut back down. To connect two straps, again drill holes and bolt them together. Best to use bronze bolts for the connections in the bilge. And no sharp bends in the path. Gentle curves only. Good on you for doing this. There are no promises with lightning but you will sleep better knowing you did what can be done.
The best information I have gotten on this is that even if you do provide a path that runs very deep the lightening will most likely still exit the hull within 2' of the water's surface. The path won't matter if it terminates further under water than 2'. An Ion Dissipater is one of the better protection methods. They have been extremely successful on towers. There is also another form of thinking that is in fact based rather well in the sticky wicket of facts here. The lightening is headed to ground coming down in most instances. If you couple your rig you will have negative ions from the sea skyward being piped up from a big tall mast and thus as opposites attract, a positive charge in the sky would be more likely to be attracted to a rig. There is still nothing in stone on any of this grounding stuff. On one hand it can make the lightening path to a point where you want it to go in which case you can kiss many through hulls good by if you have them tied together on a mesh circuit. In addition such circuits provide a faster path through water for ANY electrical current straying around in the water and by doing so greatly increase of the galvanic corrosion of the bronze through hulls AND your auxiliary drive line as well if your engine is on the mesh . Lightening can also blow a hole larger than a Dynaplate if it exits the hull through that.
Piling on here: A negative charge in and at the cloud base discharges to the positively charged ground state. Otherwise you'd have no energy coupling. There are positively charged ions at the very top of large cumulonimbus, but these are associated with only about 5% of lightning discharges (they are the most potent, according to NOAA). Using lightning arrestors (poly phaser comes to mind) just prior to your comms gear is helpful, provided you supply a good ground. Protect all DC/AC power inputs using similar bypass protection. Disconnection is best, but not always practical. Sufficient discharge will generate an EMP which all your fancy protections will not assuage. As the author suggests, keep a portable radio in a tin box that's well grounded. Hail Mary.
As a person who’s been hit by lightning three times, I’m very cognizant of his power. But I remember sailing with a friend of mine on a 42 foot Morgan sailboat in the Bahamas near marsh Harbour and when the storms would come through he would assure me that the boat was well grounded to the water and right or wrong that made me feel better.
Thanks for sharing your experiences and accumulated knowledge and research! I’m new to yachting and will consider this video as I do some restoration preparing the yacht for its maiden voyage with me at the helm. She’s an old fibreglass yacht with aluminium deck stepped mast and cast iron keel. I’m an electrician and have always been fascinated with lightning. I have been called to several homes that have suffered burn outs and electrical damage from nearby strikes but only one home that had a direct strike to the tv antenna on a mast 8 m above a tiled roof. Tracing the path of the strike was fascinating! The surge jumped from the mounting bolts inside the roof to the aluminium foil insulation then jumped to several places such as a junction box on power circuit then to a power outlet on kitchen wall mounted on ceramic tiles. It blew the tiles off the wall for a 1metre diameter and jumped via the foil insulation in external walls to antcapping on brick piers to ground at nearby earth stake which showed burn marks from the arc drawn! Also follow coax cable from antenna down to the loop just below the metal external gutters and absolutely exploded the cable at the bend but appeared ok along the straight path. Blew up tv and tuner box as well. A few days work replacing burnt cables and checking for other damage. I imagine it would be terrifying to experience similar strike on a yacht (or when out on my windsurfer!) so loved your insights. Thanks again Al from Lake Macquarie, NSW Aus.
I’ve been hit three times at my own dock while restoring an old boat with all the wiring and bonding removed. Twice it simply blew out the shore power cable ( just for working and dehumidifier). The third couldn’t find a path and jumped to a spot where a small hole had been plugged. The result was a 6” hole. Fortunately the new engine and generator were hanging above the sole to be installed the next day. Also my draft is just less than the depth at my dock at high tide so the repair was not a problem. I’ve decided to install all electronics on the mizzen and use the main mast as a lightning rod by installing a 3/4” x 6”x 2’ slotted copper plate with studs on the bottom beside the keel with a bonding strap and trail wires from my upper shrouds. I’ve heard the water in the dynaplate can superheat and explode..if you sail you take your chances!
Great video. Long time charter captain, starting a sailing charter business but definitely green in the sailing world. With clients and family on board I'm certainly concerned about strikes and have been trying to figure out how to minimize danger to those who entrust me with their safety. You have definitely given me direction and I thank you
Depends on what boat you have. If it’s American made then you can do this because the bot is bonded. European boats are not bonded and everything runs through the negative or common instead of the sacrificial anodes on a bonded boat
I was out in a "tinnie" and got caught out in a storm and I have to admit we felt so so so vulnerable. Luckily the storm went different ways to us thankfully.
I’ve been a multiple Boat Owner / Operator for more than 35 years and I’ve always stressed to others in the Boating Community that not if but When your Vessel does get hit with Lightning the best thing you can do to be prepared for it is to have Paper Charts and know how to traditionally Navigate with those and your Compass especially with so many Modern Boaters that utilize GPS and other Electronic gadgets don’t get me wrong I do use those as well but they are just a tool to me not the only thing I know how to Utilize I started out with a Compass and a depth finder being the most high tech boat gadgets And if my GPS goes down I can still Safely get us home or back to my Port because I’ve studied the Charts and designed a plan before hand Ironically when my youngest was growing up I used to make him always point on the Charts where we were on the Water and what we should be expecting likeBuoy numbers , Channels , and Shoals to look out for mainly so he would understand how to read a Map or a Chart and as a Adult he still can BTW. On my first few trips fromFlorida to the Bahamas It was using a Compass and Paper Charts back in those days the Bahamians would plant Bamboo sticks or Poles in the Sand to be used as Channel Markers to get around Shallow Reefs
Have been hit twice ourselves (once mid-Atlantic, once in Belize). Recommend an emergency VHF aerial in case you are hit by the first strike before you can unplug your radio.
I'm not convinced. If there's a negative charge in the air, a positive charge will develop under it on the ground (not a negative charge). Dislike charges attract and they will want to neutralize the charge through a lightening strike. The lightening will follow the path of least resistance. If your mast is grounded to the water, your mast will be the path of least resistance. If your mast ISN'T grounded to the water, it won't be the path of least resistance and it SHOULD be less likely to be hit than it if was grounded. I've had lightening strike the water a few hundred yards off... had my mast been grounded it would have been more likely to attract the lightening. I've never heard of someone being hit as much as you've been hit. I believe it's because of your grounding strap. I'm not sure why your dissipater helped, but I'll accept the idea that it did help. I'll have to give this more thought... I'd never heard that a keel stepped mast could contribute to blowing a 2 foot hole in your hull. I believe it though... It's the best reason I've heard for getting a deck stepped mast.
@@sleethmitchell @Jason McIntosh, While I like the idea proposed by Clark, I have never heard a completely convincing argument for giving lightning a low resistance path to the ground/ the plane/ the place with an opposite charge. The implication of the theory here is that your mast and boat, would actually dissipate the charge in the atmosphere, and lower the charge between the air and the water, and PREVENT lightning in your particular area. If you think of the atmosphere and ground as two oppositely charged plates of a capacitor, a conductive high point on one of the plates will be the place where the spark occurs once the breakdown voltage is reached. I don't think there is anyway to get around the fact that your mast is a very nice conductor, and I would say the line between "dissipating the charge" and a lightning strike, is too thin to count on.
Great advice and video. I’ve built and operated many communications towers in Florida, and everything mentioned in the video is consistent with my experiences. Ion dissipators, good grounding (to everything) and a heavy duty common wire connecting them all is the formula to preventing and minimizing lightning damage. One word of caution, beware of ground loops. To the question of ion (static) dissipator, my RF consultant had repeated issues with lighting strikes on a 600’ tower. He installed one. After, his client was sued by the owner of a tower located in the shadow of his client’s tower, because it began to take regular strikes. The nearby tower was shorter and had lower emissions. Ion dissipators work!
Thanks Russell. That was good to hear. Well not the part about the ridiculous law suit. Hope that was thrown out! Sometimes I'm so glad to not be in the US.
Thanks for the info. I’ve always had questions about lightning as it relates to a fibreglass boat. I think this is the first video that I’ve seen which addresses this question! I fly for the airlines. There are very rare occasions when we will be flying in ice crystals at high altitudes that develop enough of a charge to create St.Elmos fire on the windshields. It looks really cool, and it behaves like the plasma you see in a glass plasma ball that you may find at a specialty store or a science demonstration. The plasma will be attracted to your finger if you touch the glass. It’s faint, so I’ve only seen this at night. Usually it happens in the vicinity of thunderstorms. Unfortunately, I don’t have a camera that is good enough in low light conditions to capture this. Similar to your boat, airliners have static (dispersal) wicks that are located on the trailing edges of the tail and wings. These are also intended to equalize the charge.
Very good information with the engineers understanding, and the sailors practial experience. I would like to mention a couple of thoughts that I had while watching your presentation. The mast MUST be bonded to the ships bonding system also. If a path of low Impedance (resistance is DC-talk. Lightning is true super high frequency RF for grounding purposes so impedance is the actual concern) with no sharp bends, which lightning cannot follow, is provided to a good large area grounding plate, then you have a way to direct the strike to ground. That imposes several considerations in the routing of the grounding/bonding conductor from the mast bottom, thru the boat to your grounding plate through hull fitting. Mainly, routing the conductor (flat braid is great for this, using a plastic sleeve where needed for isolation from water, oil etc. so that all turns are gently made, no sharp angles in the braid in order to keep the 'plasma' of the lightning strike from flashing over to nearby metal, and through your fiberglass. This wire's large-radius-turn pathway should steer clear of the hull interior until over the grounding plate attachment point. Imagine the entire lightning pathway and seek out any spot that would provide the best and shortest pathway. A full lightning strike..i.e. not a side strike from another target, is going to generate an EMP pulse within the boat itself, and even for a few hundred feet around you possibly. An EMP pulse is going to attack every single electronic device in the boat..in the oven or wrapped in foil. Remember that the frequencies involved in a strike are like "white noise", in that all frequencies are represented. As the EMP pulse arrives in each device, each component, each wire, each board trace will intercept the EMP energy, inducing very high voltages in each item. Longer tracks or wires will resonate at a lower frequency while shorter wires will resonate at very high frequencies from the EMP pulse. That voltage then goes to the silicon on the board, blowing holes everywhere. All gone..all dead. There is nothing..nothing that you can do to stop that EMP from a direct hit. Hell, your batteries will be burned up even, if you are unlucky. For me, grounding the mast, and then all other metal on the boat seems to work, judging from 33 years of sailing on Lake Superior where lightning is very common. I believe my experience would be mappable to you guys out there in the wild. Stay Dry, Larry DeMers s/v DeLaMer Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
While your description of what an EMP pulse does is correct, the entire point of a good-quality Faraday Cage (and a properly grounded oven or microwave is an excellent Faraday Cage) is to protect the items inside it against such pulses. And they do a good job of it. Otherwise, there would be no point to even having Faraday Cages.
This video is a treasure vault of good info, I learned a lot. I always suspected proper grounding was the answer and with so few boats out there properly grounded I can see that " Houston we have a problem." Then when you consider the position of the knuckleheads at the marina regarding ion dissipators it's a wonder more boats aren't hit and sunk and/or burnt to the waterline. You have a really long aluminum pole sticking out of the water and into a cloud. You have no reason to be surprised over what happens next.
you've covered this better this better anybody i know of. thank you for that. the only thing that I'd add is for folk to understand that lightening actively follows radio waves. anything transmitting is an attractant. myself, i'm a lightening magnet, so it's a big concern of mine. what's your opinion of a wooden mast . I doubt i'll fly a Bermudan rig, I'm a fan of wingsail, modern junks and even gaffs, all lacking hardware that connects to the boat, other than the electronics that can be disconnected. I'm thinking two disconnects per device, leaving as much as 6 foot for a strike to have to jump.
Thank you. That video was like a public service message. You explained it well in clear and in simple terms. It answered a lot of questions for me, and now I have some work to do. No problem, I don't mind work. It's good to have a path that can really make a difference.
I enjoyed this explanation and i will probably review it a couple more times, I dont sail i grew up in the caribbean with a 20' motor boat and i dream of returning some day w another motor boat, but i've had this question of lightning in mind for the past several weeks. See below it occurred just as you explained.
Great video. I have ground wires running all through my mirage 27 I figured they were for something related to lighting. I must have been hit before my radios pooched. First year with boat. Nice to know I should unhook.
Your Right! Many of these sailboat owners who know nothing about electricity, have the same bar room story. Oh those dont work, a waste of money. LOL. I am a Electrical / plasma engineer. these disapaters and direct ground straps to water at the ticket. Thanks for the video
I am not disputing your experience or the solutions you presented, but when you have a negatively charged cloud, mutual inductance would cause it to induce a positive charge on the water below it, not negative as you have indicated. This is true especially because the water is grounded, allowing for the flow of charge.
Wow. Amazing. set of coincidences. I am an engineer. I've been researching lightning from a marine point. I am familiar with what we do from the radio point. So, the reason I'm doing this is two boats I follow on TH-cam were hit. One, Sailing into Freedom. Probably the least prepared. The other, Parlay Revival. Less damage, a more recent Cat, plus they , I believe, lucked out. The guy "Sailing Into Freedom" (Plucky) near Boca was nearly sank. The lightning traveled along his shaft and when it got near the back of the boat, decided to break out of the boat. One thing you didn't mention , perhaps, I'll need to watch again, is that the negative (if you will) charge is located at the surface of the water. So I've been told. So, discharging to the surface of the water is more effective. And, the lightning will try to get there somehow. Side flashes and along the drive line . This is from research only, I am not an expert by any means. So, if that is true, you would try to have conductors go to the surface of the water. Another premise was that you were to try to keep the lightning from coming into the boat. Hum, wonder if a disconnect with a grounding bus outside of the boat would be the way to go, ? The words Faraday cage were used a lot in my research , one would put a Farraday cage around your equipment and keep the lightning from coming into it. We used discharge gadgets when we used the ion Dissipator (antenna's can be Ion Dissipators with their little points on top) . An inexpensive Ion Dissipator available in the states would be a brand new chimney sweep. Of course, you would connect the stainless brush to a metal pole, removing any fiberglass. .
Excellent topic to cover! Especially that two sailing channels I watch are now recovering from direct lightning strikes. Sailing into freedom actually caught his on camera.
Thank you for the video. You are absolutely right. Lightning is a big deal and it scares the heck out of me. I am a Ham operator so have delt with lightning for a long time. Those grounding cables and ion dissipaters work. I also remove antenna cables and place them near a ground. Even a lightning strike near you antenna can induce a pulse through the cable. A trick I use is to make simple overhand knots in my power supply cables. What those create are electrical chokes that help to mitigate surges. I live in Florida so lightning is a serious threat. TY MH Mr. Scott Lane knows what he is talking about.... great input.
Thank you for putting this out. I've bought a dissipator for my Typhoon, which we hope to get onto the lake in Nebraska in area known for lightening. Now I will back it up with the plate on the hull. I will do the same on my 25ft sailboat. Thanks again, great video.
2nd or 3rd time I have watched this video. As always, Emily & Clark, been watching a long time, have saved many of your videos and this one in particular. (Along with floating painter, washing clothes, et al). Knowledge rules. (scientific primarily). Please continue. Thank you for sharing your expertise, both of you.
Very sobering ! I just moved from Hawaii to North Carolina and do kitesurfing. My concern these days is about getting hit through the kite. Funny how the wind and storms go together... Aloha ~
Thank You. So I understand that assembling LightningDissipator->Mast->BroadCopperBand->CabinMastPole->BroadCopperBand->KeelBoltWashers->Keel->LowerPartOfKeelWithCopperPlateNoAntifouling, while keeping all as straight as it gets, may do it as standby ? Where to have passengers / helmsman to be most protected? How to protect the engine ? What about fire risks with diesel/ gasoline/ propane? What emergency solution if the hull gets punched through? Do sometimes mast fall as result of lightning strikes? Answer as you feel informative/ convienient for you and your audience. Thank You.
Thanks for this! It was kind of information I was really looking for. I will do exactly those things for my boat, conductors for both masts, grounding to the keels and charge dissipator(s) to mast(s). Maybe building a dedicated grounded faraday box for storing essential parts of electric propulsion stuff.
Electrical engineer, and a cruiser, I had to sub. The ground is usually negative and large negative charge can develop on your boat. The best way to get that negative charge off the boat is have a metal sphere on top of the mast and put a UV C bulb above it and via the photoelectric effect the electrons will fly off the metal ball. The ball will spray negatively charged air upwards toward the cloud and will keep the voltage too low for a discharge.
Physics guy here, I'm curious what you mean here... as round spheres are generally bad as they build/hold charge. Guess I could see the light being lit as the electrons ionize into the air if wired correctly. Still would need sharp edges to accomplish this, I'd think. Would be like a warning light, too. Would you really need a round sphere at all?
I have watched this so many times. Thank you for making it and all your invaluable content. I have a sizable old British Army ammo case… all made from very solid steel. It currently houses my vintage mobile phone collection. When I get my next boat I aim to find a spot for it, and ground it (as you explained the oven needs to be). I will get into the habit of keeping all electronic kit not in use in it… come a storm I will but all electronics in there and shut the lid.
Thanks Clark. All good information. Still a big subject though and the more technology the bigger the risk. At the moment I am installing LiFePO4 batteries and I started to think about the vulnerability of the electronics and what options there are for protection. A few elements. Masthead: the sertec CMCE is interesting to me, and it carries a Pantanius Insurance endorsement. So if you go that way then the Maretron WSO 100 non moving part wind sensor would make sense from a compatible configuration perspective, and you’ve also solved the masthead bird damage problem. Down inside the boat I am looking at the possibility of an optic fibre data bus for various instruments. Then I’m thinking of lining the power electronics cupboard with metal to give it some cage protection. Once I’ve done all of that, hopefully there will be more evidence based information on what works best.
Your welcome. Thanks for the question. I never thought about the BMSs in the lithium batteries. Concerning. Re: the sertec device. I only just looked at it but it looks like snake oil to me. Especially based on the words they chose in their marketing document. I'll look closer sometime.
@@Clarks-Adventure Yes we need much more information. One thing that should be the last thing a boat mast should have at the top is sharp pointy things. My factory got struck by lightning in a storm similar to one of your accounts, it struck the TV and radio antenna. The replacement antenna was the same except it had a plastic cap on the end of the upright pointy bit. The intention is to insulate so an up streamer cannot start. I’m hoping Delos will respond to my question on their masthead disc wind instrument (did it work as advertised/are they still using it?). I’m thinking that regardless of whether the CMCE logic is correct, a dome shape at the masthead is safer than the standard wind indicators which I see as being lightning attractors. Then the next choice is do you encourage the lightning to come down the mast or do you encourage it to come down the outside of the boat. I am thinking the latter but with a copper braid similar to Captain Cook era lightning chain. The modern version might be a dynema cord with a copper core. So I am thinking a solution might be something like the Maretron instrument with a domed aluminium cap and an integrated tri colour, and that is earthed to a braid that is strapped to the outer shrouds with a section that can be dropped into the water and or left in the water when away from the boat (home). At this stage there is no one known answer, but the best knowledge might come from aviation. However, it seems Maretron is discontinued but calypsoinstruments.com/shop/product/ultrasonic-wired-wifi-41 there are new players. I am going to order one and try it at the stern to see how it performs. I suspect Axiom can monitor multiple instruments in different windows. I will talk to www.liros.com/userdata/files/LIROS_Rope_Catalogue_2019_2020_eng_low_res.pdf these people about a custom copper mix cord., though I have some other thoughts on what might be better.
Wow, your story REALLY brought it home about the destructive nature of lightning! In Colorado, I've seen absolutely huge trees obliterated by lightning (many exploded at the base to the point that they fall down-there will be this 2-3 inch strip from the top to the bottom, but the bottom just explodes into a large circle of splinters!) that certainly have more mass in a concentrated area than your boat--so blowing a 2-foot hole in a boat is totally believable; on a Nat-Geo film about Titanic, they said that the combined areal was only 12 square feet and look what that did. I would think that you'd want at least (but probably all) the main mast(s) to have a heavy-high current conduction path from the tip to a plate on the underside of the boat where the mast terminates. I'm a ham so it would be so cool to QSO with you guys--and really prudent you have ham-radio aboard. When I was young, I used to keep CW-skeds with ships at sea (long before they had GPS or SAT-phones) giving WX reports, family welfare traffic and apprising them of dangers etc. Well, you guys certainly have the life, and I wish all the best to you! 73 & SUBSCRIBED!
In aircraft, we bond components with a #10 bare copper wire to transmit lightning from one part to the other for entrance and exit of the bolt. I would think that the #10 bare copper wire could be connected to the top of the mast to a dissipator and then routed under the yacht to a good solid metal component. I can't see why one would want a fake stay. Simply run the wire directly with a generous loop where it changes direction and stay away from any of the yacht's systems. The transmission time is in milliseconds. Obviously, the wire will heat up quickly with the enormous current, in spike form, but it is usually not repeated within a short time period.
I traveled 52k nautical miles over 7 years never hit. slippery when wet was 27 tons steel long keel motor sailor. In Malaysia Lankawi just unbelievable afternoon storms. A wooden boat with a smaller mast suffered a complete wireing melt down that cost thousands that was right next to us. I agree if you can get your boat to the same potential as the water is the best safety advise.
I was also a weatherman with Canada Weather office. We where thought that lightning always tries to find the shortest connecting path. Thats why trees are often struck and why a sailboat mast is such a pray for lightning, especially if your are the only high point in the area. Definitely adding a dissipator is the only solution to seriously protect a boat. Here in Canada I have seen many a ketch rig placing the various antennas on the mizzen mast instead witch is usually shorter and will often be missed by lightning. Also replacing the cable equipment on the top of the mast to wifi will reduce mast hits!
Yes. I bet that tower was engineered to quickly change charge state making it invisible to lightning. Tower guys take lightning very seriously since without that engineering they would be magnets to lightning. I learned a lot from tower and power line guys.
Many years of buyers choosing the cheapest boat has lead to light weight hulls with fewer important systems that make them capable of crossing oceans safely.
You also can put the cables from your antennas in a glass bottle. I use a cb radio at home and when a storms come in . I unhook and put the cables in the one gallon glass jar with a small poor top. Stay safe. Message is from Atlanta Georgia.
If you add an aluminum rod to the top of your mast with a round end, it may provide a better path in the case of a strike and save antenna and dissipator. Very good information on reducing potential and risk. Thanks.
Fantastic video. We have been in a few nasty lightning storms yet fortunate to never get hit. The sea can be a choppy one even a day later from the strong winds. Safe journeys!
Great information and I loved your stories! What is terrifying when it happens becomes a great adventure story for years afterward I grew up sailing off the coast of Southern California in the Channel Islands. My father was an engineer and could fix anything. So on the way to Santa Cruz Island, sailing 8-10 knots we noticed the boom halyard was flying in the breeze. (My father said a few "prayers" at the top of his voice.) While my dad was fixing that, the shackle on the jib broke. While my brothers were working on that (in high winds and high seas), the wheel broke and the storm tiller had to be installed. After dad did that, the engine was coughing and choking and my mother tried to call the coast guard, but the radio didn't work. (Everything was fine when we left). Moral of the story: Never go sailing on Friday the 13th! My father's family were fisherman and merchants from eastern Canada, and he didn't listen to their "superstitions".) I would never sail on the open sea without someone like my dad on board. We survived because he had taken every precaution and knew how to fix things. Nature is real and doesn't care, as you said, and you are out there alone for the most part. Thanks for the video. (Now I know why we had the zinc in the water. :)
"There're a lot of opinions in the cruising world, mostly formed on bar stools" - Clark. If I ever get a tattoo, it'll be an anchor (of course) and this line. This is a classic video for cruisers (and future cruisers). Terrific useful information. Thank you. NOAA has a great pdf for lightning and hikers. It's really interesting where you should go and where you should not go in the mountains and a forest.
Thanks Willin. I don't write a script and I almost laughed myself when this came out of my mouth. It was a fun thought. Please put a link to that document here. I'd like to see it.
@@Clarks-Adventure Of course I couldn't find the pdf I remember. But I found these which I think covers it: opensummit.com/learn/post/lightning-safety-tips www.pcta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/BackcountryLightningSafety.pdf The one thing that got me was not to shelter on a bare rock slope, or under an overhang. When I was googling there was a photo of the lighting hitting a peak and hugging the slope right into the tree line. Reading about a hiker who was killed inside the stone house at the top of Mt Whitney, sitting with his back against the outside wall, I think everyone figured out to sit on their 'butt' pad during a storm.
Hi Clark. Forget where we met, maybe Panama. Lots of good info, thanks for that reminder of the ion dissipator, need to get one. Also wanted to mention that we were in a storm off Pacific coat Panama where we also had the large Star Trek like beams coming down around us. We called it trunk lightening because it reminded of a sequoia tree trunk. These days I think they are being called “super-bolts”. Thanks for the entertainment too!
I experienced those on land in the Philippines. I was in my car, multiple strikes probably 20' away. Static had my thighs tingling. The power was surreal. Terrifying. Massive blue bolts. Like a Marvel movie.
Emily & Clark I would be interested in how you sail your boat in all different places. All different ways to sail your boat from using your sail and also using your engine. How and why you use sail or engine, and how fast does your boat go on sail or engine. Lastly it would be interesting to see how you dock or anchor correctly. I really enjoy all your videos!
Just to be a bit pedantic (from one (retired) electronics engineer to another) you don't need to ground an oven for it to act as a Faraday screen. The only requirement is that it should be a conductive structure completely surrounding the equipment it is shielding. A reasonable alternative, if you have any on board, is to wrap the delicate items completely in aluminium foil.
22:10 lightning doesnt travel at the speed of light, but you are right its a hell of a lot faster than a person. Great tips in this video, thanks for sharing!
Fascinating video...I've been thinking a lot about lightning and how to decrease the chances of being hit on a fibre-glass hulled trawler yacht...especially if I had a tall SSB antenna coming off the flybridge halo. Your lighting stories are terrifying especially the one regarding the Bahamas...I've never heard of fire lightning.....that is utterly terrifying. I'm amazed that lightning strikes aren't given more of a priority in yacht design. The thought of a lightning strike putting a hole through the hull is worrying to say the least. Thanks so much for explaining the concept of allowing your vessel to change 'ionically' to match the surroundings to decrease the risk of a strike.
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Having spent quite a bit of time putting lightening protection schemes and manuals together for companies that use land based towers for comms, I very much appreciate your using science to develop your scheme instead of wives tales, sea stories and anecdotal false positives. Lightening is simply the result of a difference of potentials that use the least resistant path to equalize and when this path has resistance, heat is the biproduct. Intense heat, that excites the atoms and converts the gaseous state of matter into the plasma state. The secret, as you pointed out, is to first try and reduce the probability that you are the most conductive path and then to give the flow of electrons, a clean path in which to equalize. I have heard of people who think that using their metal through holes and water systems as a path, but this is incredibly dangerous and can easily lead to a major hull breach. Avoid 90 degree angles on your ground tails and make any turns in direction as gentle as possible. Not only unplug antennas, but also power supplies if lightening is probable. I am not sure how I feel about your copper run along the bilge, but obviously it has worked for you. My personal thoughts are to use the guys and stays, but there are risk with this as well as any conductor is basically a large fusible link and in the right strike potential, could burn out and cause a demasting issue. But as you point out, it is about reducing risk.
Thanks for your video.
Thanks for your comment Scott. I've pinned it to the top as you have made some very good points. I wish I had mentioned the point you made about no sharp turns. I agree with you about thruhulls. NO WIRES TO THRUHULLS! I know that is against popular opinion but bonding thruhulls can cause them to loose their zinc and fail.
As for my strap in water. That area of the bilge is usually dry. We just had a lot of rain and water coming down the mast collected there because of a clogged limber hole.
Again thanks for your comment.
Clark
Hi Scott, thanks for your thoughts. Yes, the stays, and yes the risk. That is why I am thinking of creating a separate copper subsidiary stay to the masthead to give the lightning a guided path. The stainless stays are relatively high resistance compared to copper. Then it comes down to what details the masthead device should have, and the tail to the water. I am thinking that the tail can be incorporated into a specially made fender to disguise the lightning tail and to space the line a little distance away from the hull. The copper for a quick installation can be aircraft wire flex as this is silver plated and should last longer in the elements.
@@williambunting803 Just to make sure that I understand, you are talking about adding a fake stay and not replacing one with the aircraft wire flex? The copper and silver would stretch too much to be good stay material on their own. This would definitely protect the stays and guys from becoming a fusible link and in the marina, the fender idea would look neater. But, if just left exposed, the copper tinned alloy would oxidize fairly quickly and especially underwater, it would quickly give up their free electrons to electrolysis.
This is fairly similar to how we protect communications towers and the radios. The difference being that the antenna cabling (copper) has a specific use and we attach ground tails on the legs or base of towers to a ground ring that is attached to ground rods. The copper comes into the communications building and immediately goes through a TVSS (trans voltage surge suppressor) which acts as a fusible link and has a ground tail on the tower side, which is connected to a ground bar, connected to a halo and path to ground.
I have been in a shelter during a strike and it was frightening, but it works.
I am not sure that it would function well though if left installed for a long period of time (due to oxidation and increased resistance compared to the stainless we use the tower itself for the main conduit) compared to a quick fit tail from the stay. Also, if it is used just during potential strike periods, how and were would it be stored? If using an exane or welding type cable, it is fairly heavy and cumbersome for an additional 80' to 120' to be stored where it is accessible quickly yet kept dry and clean. (electron flow is on the surface of the copper and not through it's core).
On a boat that gets hit frequently, it may make sense, but if it's on a boat that rarely gets hit, I don't think it makes cost sense for a permanently but frequently replaced system, but I am always open to being corrected.
If you have some of the engineering and or build one, I would be very interested in seeing your product.
@@williambunting803 In my other comment I talk about cost. To clarify, a comm tower may have well over $100K spent on it's lightening protection to protect the radio cabinets and contents which can be worth well over $500K per unit. They use disposable TVSS's that can be replaced per strike and these can cost upward to $1000 apiece. This makes financial sense when there may be between $500K to several million dollars worth of equipment. On a boat worth up to 300K, that is not your home and livelihood, it has to be tailored respectively. I do not see your cost being anywhere close to $100K like a communication tower, and an exane type cable that runs along the stay would only have exposure at the connections and in the water.
Sorry, I am still running my thoughts over on this and should take more time to think through.
@@ScottLaneSabineParish Yes Scott, this will be a dummy stay purely as a lightning rod. Copper can be titanium coated for corrosion protection. I haven’t done it yet but I have copper parts that operate in phosphoric acid and high temperature and from other experiments I am sure this works, though doing it to wire would require a supplier to want to do it. The last metre to the water can be Carbon fibre which eliminates the corrosion problem. Perhaps you could suggest how much copper is required for the stay, sqmm? And what is the condition of a lightning conductor after it has taken a hit? What are your thoughts on the dissipator collector end? The more I think about this the more certain I am that it is vital to keep the electricity flowing outside and around the boat. The next part of this is to come up to speed on surge arrestors.
Thanks this is a rare example of a sailor with actual, real experience, humbly sharing knowledge with the community. I'll subscribe to your channel 👍
Thanks Charles. I hope you look through our older videos. I'm sure you will find other videos that you'd like.
Emily keeps our playlists in order so you might choose to use those to make your searching easier.
I have lived on my Ericson since 1993 and have sailed all over as well. I had a friend whose boat was struck and ironically he was a boat insurance underwriter. He FAILED to take all his own advice and his boat took a very damaging lightening hit. So, people, pay attention. This is real and everything being said here is TRUE and life saving. Thanks for the video.
I was utility engineer for Emory university in Atlanta in the mid 90s. We had a building that took repeated lightning strikes, causing damage to control systems every time. After a bit of research we installed an atomic lightning rod. It uses an isotope that produces enough energy to ionize the air around it-similar to a dissipator. No strikes since....
So it stop the static build up in a sence
Couple details: 1) Sky and earth are oppositely charged. 2) Current takes the path of least impedance, not least resistance. Impedance is a combination of resistance, inductance and capacitance. For boat purposes, inductance is crucial. Inductance is any geometry that makes a magnetic field when current passes through. Straight-lines make the least inductance and loops make the most. Skinny-paths make more inductance than wide-paths. So, loop instrument-wiring and straight-line lightning-rods.
Lightning jumps gaps and punches through insulators. Lightning is explosively hot. So make lightning-rod the best path (away from anything you don't want punched-through or overheated) to the ocean's surface. And "best" being lowest impedance. Remember, lightning-rod conductor is going to get explosively hot too, secure it accordingly.
@@cakepastawhey5095 - Maybe? Problem with plates embedded in fiberglass is that if the current runs along the boundary (and it always seems to), it'll burn the fiberglass. Lightning travels on the surface of conductors, so while having thick metal is a great heat-sink for the metal, it doesn't help the fiberglass much. That's how holes typically get blown through. Am a physicist/engineer, not an experienced sailor. Barring a tried-and-true pre-existing solution, I'd (more...)
...run some large diameter braided coax cable from the Dissipator, down the mast on standoff insulators, straight down to the waterline where a brass-fan would skim the water's surface, thus spreading any current over the water's surface (presuming a catamaran)? Using the coax's large diameter outer braid as the conductor between the Dissipator and the brass grounding-fan.
Using the mast itself, chains, chain-plates, etc., seems to be where many boats incur lightning damage? By making the path the best, least impedance, not-touching-the-boat path, it minimizes lightning going to unpredictable paths. Most ignore the inductance-factor when charting a path, when inductance is far more critical than resistance. Minimize resistance too, because that's what causes heat; but inductance will make lightning jump right off a copper-wire and take an unpredictable path.
If it were advisable to ground the boat itself (as many have suggested), it might be best to use the same low-inductance principles and connect to the cable as close to the waterline as is practical? Perhaps just below the trampoline, for example?
3: The boat is a giant capacitor/Leyden jar. I learned that today.
The power of lightning is impressive. We were hit offshore in the North Atlantic on a tug I was working on years ago. It hit the signal mast and ran down the side of the hull where it blew the paint right off the steel hull in sheets. Stripped the area to clean steel better then any sandblaster I’ve every seen. It ran down to one of the chains that attach the tires to the hull vaporizing it! I noticed the missing tire when the sun came up and figured it just got ripped off in the rough weather (a common occurrence) but upon further investigation discovered that the chain has been vaporized and there was slag and spatter on the bulwarks from the chain! Fortunately it didn’t damage anything electrical. It didn’t even cook any electronics in the upper wheelhouse. After seeing what it did to that 3/4 inch chain I have a whole new respect for lighting.
I was once caught in a storm on a shrimp trawler, as we fought our way back to more protected waters we received a call over the radio from a fellow trawler not far behind us running towards the same cover. They told us we had took a strike and our stern was on fire. I had just come in from the stern from lashing things down to prevent losing them overboard so naturally I was confused, we had a nearby strike but I knew we hadn't taken one and couldn't be on fire. I stepped back out the door and the entirety of the rigging was alight with St. Elmo's Fire, truly the wildest natural phenomenon I have ever seen. I felt like I was inside one of those electric plasma globes children play with. Come to find out, St. Elmo's Fire on a boat is a good sign of a proper ionic charge transfer that should prevent you from being struck.
Until today, I believed the myth that says St Elmo's indicates that one was about to be struck. I "learned" that by watching Moby Dick.
Uncommon intuition and a rare grasp of physics shared openly in good faith. Thank you!
Really great video. As a teen sailing in a race many years ago, I experienced the worst lightning in my life…. Truly terrifying soaking wet on a 22 foot boat with sails out of control with the mast waving back and forth with steel cables all around which we were holding to stay on the boat….I really thought about swimming to get away from the boat….ugh still makes my stomach turn. Anyway thanks for the great info.
I really am glad you created this episode. This is very useful information for us. Most people just say there's nothing that you can do about lightning. To me that sounds like giving up.
Our boat has a deck stepped mast. The port chainplate is connected to a keel bolt with a cable. The keel is cast iron, huge and not encapsulated except for bottom paint. This is the factory setup from Beneteau.
Before we purchased the boat it had been struck and the electronics were a total loss. I'd like to reduce the chance of that happening going forward as we have just replaced the electronics throughout the boat.
I've eliminated all the mast wiring except for the steaming light as a hedge against charge entering the electrical system. I'd like to add a surge protector to that circuit. A static dissipater is something we could add.
I'd appreciate any comments or thoughts you may have about our setup. Great video.
I like your vid Clark. The reason why you’re still getting hit is that your dissipator needs many more points. When you replace your knackered one, add multiple units. It’s all about suppressing the bld up of charge so your corona doesn’t get overwhelmed and the ions saturate. Saturation is bad. Add a bunch more points to maintain the corona (st elmos fire). Good luck 👍🏻
Is a wooden boat with wooden mast and stainless rigging more or less likely to get hit by lightning? Should I have a ground cable that I can attach from my stays/chainplates to the water?
What an awesome, well-spoken and captivating storyteller! And so full of good useable information. This is now my number one channel! Thanks for all you bring here!
Used to see fiberglass saltwater tanks hit by lighting all of the time, even the ones with official tower type lighting protection. The chlorides in the salt water were the same as the Gulf of Texas water, so in my mind on a boat the salt water is like a negative asking for a positive to feed it. It has been years since I was at sea, so thank you for your elaborate dissertation, way more than I knew.
My first lightning experience on a sailboat happened while I was at the helm and a storm came at us between Greece and Sicily. No shelter, no joy. Neither I nor crew had any experience and weren't sure what to do. We hove to, and stayed below deck away from the mast and electronics and rode it out while lightning burst all around us for about an hour (seemed like hours).
Thanks for sharing your insights and experience. Pretty certain I'll be better prepared next time learning from you.
Nice vid, one other issue I would add is your DC electrics that go up the mast need to be powered via a DC-DC isolated power supply. That prevents the earth in each device up in the sky from being a path to ground. So nav lights, radios, gps, wind gear etc.
Classed vessels also have this for a reason.
Just met a couple last night who suffered a strike and had to replace 90% of their electronics in Lake Erie. Thank goodness their hull was not damaged & they were both safe. I mentioned your channel to them, if they are still at AYC to day, I will definitely suggest watching again. Such great info. Sure appreciate sharing practical, well researched & applied applications. Be well.
Old sailor I have sailed with carried a pair of jumper cables. When lightening starts he would one end of the jumper cable to the mast and threw the other end into the water. Sounds logical since he has never be struck.
sounds logical.
Nice explanation. Nice advice.. well done.
Perfect stament to check the bonding of your boat.
Discharge of acces static energy is the key of success.
The ion broom thing is ( false hope ) for me .
You may as well wetten the mast because that does a better job dissipating static build up.
I don’t like attraction rods of any kind on any vehicle.
your analysis about how the static electricity is build and if is negative or possible is not correct but it does give picture how it comes up to you.
One key is dissipating static discharge.
One is move the boat . Don’t sit at steal cable or anchor chain.
If so have nylon line in between. Bonding check ref to aviation technology.. you need a megger tester.
I’m never go hit by any lighting. And i do sail for 40 years.
Wood mast on a wood boat. I generally clip a battery booster cable to a shroud and put the other end in the water. Red handled cable on the port side of course.
Wow, I've got a gaff rig stainless stays on a wooden mast with about 3ft of wooden mast above the cross trees where the stays attach if I put a jumper cable on the stays into the water is the top of the mast in more danger because I made a easier path for the lighting? 😱
Interesting. I theory would argue that the chances of being hit go down so much that it's less important what happens if you are hit.
I know I'd rather loose a mast tip then have a hole in my hull.
@@danoyes1 I think the theory is to allow free trade of electrons between water and clouds. No big enough build up to cause a strike.
@@Clarks-Adventure I'm in the prevention camp too.
@@Clarks-Adventure yeah you've got a great discussion going here... I liked the explanation of which clouds are the threat, it's clouds ready to discharge in your immediate area. As I understand if the distance from the cloud to the water is shorter at the moment of the lightning strike then the bolt will follow that path, but if the distance from cloud to your mast is shorter then it will follow that route so for a given mast height there is a general geometric equation that will predict weather a charged cloud will strike your mast or thewater. .. and the taller the mast the larger the area of sea which is further from the clouds than your mast tip... sooooo you guys seem to be saying that if you are in the danger zone it's better to be assisting with the dissipating of the charge than trying not to be conducive ... thanks for the discussion!
Something that helps and I am surprised I don't see this more often, is completely separate circuits between house and nav. Yes you can switch off nav, radio etc at your control panel, but I am talking about a completely separate panel with an inline kill switch so you can completely disconnect your expensive equipment from everything else. At anchor/dock you don't need them and while out at sea you can still navigate with paper chart and if you are in the middle of the ocean, you can just turn your chart plotters back on when the storm passes.
I have seen many people complain about loosing expensive systems that shouldn't have even been on because they are still connected and the lightning has been able to fry them.
It also helps not making the radar mast the highest point on the boat like most motor yacht manufacturers do.
Great subject and coverage. An episode about bonding and grounding would be a wonderful help.
Clark, I love your videos. You always ask for discussion topic suggestions... this is a really good one. How would you install a bonding strap in a modern boat? How does the bonding strap connect to the water-metal-ground? How do you splice peripherals (engine, stanchions, mast, etc) onto the bonding strap? Connections make the circuit.
Good idea. But I don't think it needs a video.
Just drill a hole in the end of the strap. Put it over an existing bolt and tighten the nut back down. To connect two straps, again drill holes and bolt them together. Best to use bronze bolts for the connections in the bilge.
And no sharp bends in the path. Gentle curves only.
Good on you for doing this. There are no promises with lightning but you will sleep better knowing you did what can be done.
@@Clarks-Adventure I service boats that have no bonding.
The importance of bonding and the practice of adding bonding.
The best information I have gotten on this is that even if you do provide a path that runs very deep the lightening will most likely still exit the hull within 2' of the water's surface. The path won't matter if it terminates further under water than 2'. An Ion Dissipater is one of the better protection methods. They have been extremely successful on towers. There is also another form of thinking that is in fact based rather well in the sticky wicket of facts here. The lightening is headed to ground coming down in most instances. If you couple your rig you will have negative ions from the sea skyward being piped up from a big tall mast and thus as opposites attract, a positive charge in the sky would be more likely to be attracted to a rig. There is still nothing in stone on any of this grounding stuff. On one hand it can make the lightening path to a point where you want it to go in which case you can kiss many through hulls good by if you have them tied together on a mesh circuit. In addition such circuits provide a faster path through water for ANY electrical current straying around in the water and by doing so greatly increase of the galvanic corrosion of the bronze through hulls AND your auxiliary drive line as well if your engine is on the mesh . Lightening can also blow a hole larger than a Dynaplate if it exits the hull through that.
Piling on here:
A negative charge in and at the cloud base discharges to the positively charged ground state. Otherwise you'd have no energy coupling. There are positively charged ions at the very top of large cumulonimbus, but these are associated with only about 5% of lightning discharges (they are the most potent, according to NOAA).
Using lightning arrestors (poly phaser comes to mind) just prior to your comms gear is helpful, provided you supply a good ground. Protect all DC/AC power inputs using similar bypass protection. Disconnection is best, but not always practical. Sufficient discharge will generate an EMP which all your fancy protections will not assuage.
As the author suggests, keep a portable radio in a tin box that's well grounded. Hail Mary.
i too had thought it was a potential difference between the cloud and ground that is equalised by the lightning
As a person who’s been hit by lightning three times, I’m very cognizant of his power. But I remember sailing with a friend of mine on a 42 foot Morgan sailboat in the Bahamas near marsh Harbour and when the storms would come through he would assure me that the boat was well grounded to the water and right or wrong that made me feel better.
Yes!! Great educational video, and on top of that a story time at the end! Perfect! Thank you for that!
I didn't know if anyone would stay till the end. TH-cam put an ad just as I say bye.
You're very welcome.
@@Clarks-Adventure I stayed, too! I loved the story after the good bye. Felt like the more intimate 'after party'
Thanks for sharing your experiences and accumulated knowledge and research! I’m new to yachting and will consider this video as I do some restoration preparing the yacht for its maiden voyage with me at the helm. She’s an old fibreglass yacht with aluminium deck stepped mast and cast iron keel. I’m an electrician and have always been fascinated with lightning. I have been called to several homes that have suffered burn outs and electrical damage from nearby strikes but only one home that had a direct strike to the tv antenna on a mast 8 m above a tiled roof. Tracing the path of the strike was fascinating! The surge jumped from the mounting bolts inside the roof to the aluminium foil insulation then jumped to several places such as a junction box on power circuit then to a power outlet on kitchen wall mounted on ceramic tiles. It blew the tiles off the wall for a 1metre diameter and jumped via the foil insulation in external walls to antcapping on brick piers to ground at nearby earth stake which showed burn marks from the arc drawn! Also follow coax cable from antenna down to the loop just below the metal external gutters and absolutely exploded the cable at the bend but appeared ok along the straight path. Blew up tv and tuner box as well. A few days work replacing burnt cables and checking for other damage. I imagine it would be terrifying to experience similar strike on a yacht (or when out on my windsurfer!) so loved your insights. Thanks again Al from Lake Macquarie, NSW Aus.
I’ve been hit three times at my own dock while restoring an old boat with all the wiring and bonding removed. Twice it simply blew out the shore power cable ( just for working and dehumidifier). The third couldn’t find a path and jumped to a spot where a small hole had been plugged. The result was a 6” hole. Fortunately the new engine and generator were hanging above the sole to be installed the next day. Also my draft is just less than the depth at my dock at high tide so the repair was not a problem. I’ve decided to install all electronics on the mizzen and use the main mast as a lightning rod by installing a 3/4” x 6”x 2’ slotted copper plate with studs on the bottom beside the keel with a bonding strap and trail wires from my upper shrouds. I’ve heard the water in the dynaplate can superheat and explode..if you sail you take your chances!
Great video. Long time charter captain, starting a sailing charter business but definitely green in the sailing world. With clients and family on board I'm certainly concerned about strikes and have been trying to figure out how to minimize danger to those who entrust me with their safety. You have definitely given me direction and I thank you
Depends on what boat you have. If it’s American made then you can do this because the bot is bonded. European boats are not bonded and everything runs through the negative or common instead of the sacrificial anodes on a bonded boat
GREAT stories. Evoking lots of memories of storms past, fronts crossed and microburst plasters! Yes, lightning has the "right of way."
Yep, those microbursts are brutal.
I was out in a "tinnie" and got caught out in a storm and I have to admit we felt so so so vulnerable. Luckily the storm went different ways to us thankfully.
I’ve been a multiple Boat Owner / Operator for more than 35 years and I’ve always stressed to others in the Boating Community that not if but When your Vessel does get hit with Lightning the best thing you can do to be prepared for it is to have Paper Charts and know how to traditionally Navigate with those and your Compass especially with so many Modern Boaters that utilize GPS and other Electronic gadgets don’t get me wrong I do use those as well but they are just a tool to me not the only thing I know how to Utilize I started out with a Compass and a depth finder being the most high tech boat gadgets And if my GPS goes down I can still Safely get us home or back to my Port because I’ve studied the Charts and designed a plan before hand Ironically when my youngest was growing up I used to make him always point on the Charts where we were on the Water and what we should be expecting likeBuoy numbers , Channels , and Shoals to look out for mainly so he would understand how to read a Map or a Chart and as a Adult he still can BTW. On my first few trips fromFlorida to the Bahamas It was using a Compass and Paper Charts back in those days the Bahamians would plant Bamboo sticks or Poles in the Sand to be used as Channel Markers to get around Shallow Reefs
Have been hit twice ourselves (once mid-Atlantic, once in Belize). Recommend an emergency VHF aerial in case you are hit by the first strike before you can unplug your radio.
Ais antennas are good for that nowdays
@@Clarks-Adventure Also note that if the water is flat and the spray is horizontal then you are very likely in a microburst.
I just spent 20 minutes learning about lighting, and I don't know what I learned... I feel like I learned some good things though! Thanks! ⛵
I'm not convinced. If there's a negative charge in the air, a positive charge will develop under it on the ground (not a negative charge). Dislike charges attract and they will want to neutralize the charge through a lightening strike. The lightening will follow the path of least resistance. If your mast is grounded to the water, your mast will be the path of least resistance. If your mast ISN'T grounded to the water, it won't be the path of least resistance and it SHOULD be less likely to be hit than it if was grounded. I've had lightening strike the water a few hundred yards off... had my mast been grounded it would have been more likely to attract the lightening. I've never heard of someone being hit as much as you've been hit. I believe it's because of your grounding strap. I'm not sure why your dissipater helped, but I'll accept the idea that it did help. I'll have to give this more thought... I'd never heard that a keel stepped mast could contribute to blowing a 2 foot hole in your hull. I believe it though... It's the best reason I've heard for getting a deck stepped mast.
yeah, doesn't lightning bridge the gap between OPPOSITE charges? like on the spark in my motorcycle's ignition system?
@@sleethmitchell @Jason McIntosh, While I like the idea proposed by Clark, I have never heard a completely convincing argument for giving lightning a low resistance path to the ground/ the plane/ the place with an opposite charge. The implication of the theory here is that your mast and boat, would actually dissipate the charge in the atmosphere, and lower the charge between the air and the water, and PREVENT lightning in your particular area. If you think of the atmosphere and ground as two oppositely charged plates of a capacitor, a conductive high point on one of the plates will be the place where the spark occurs once the breakdown voltage is reached. I don't think there is anyway to get around the fact that your mast is a very nice conductor, and I would say the line between "dissipating the charge" and a lightning strike, is too thin to count on.
@@louisseaman8455 yep.
Great advice and video. I’ve built and operated many communications towers in Florida, and everything mentioned in the video is consistent with my experiences. Ion dissipators, good grounding (to everything) and a heavy duty common wire connecting them all is the formula to preventing and minimizing lightning damage. One word of caution, beware of ground loops. To the question of ion (static) dissipator, my RF consultant had repeated issues with lighting strikes on a 600’ tower. He installed one. After, his client was sued by the owner of a tower located in the shadow of his client’s tower, because it began to take regular strikes. The nearby tower was shorter and had lower emissions. Ion dissipators work!
Thanks Russell. That was good to hear.
Well not the part about the ridiculous law suit. Hope that was thrown out! Sometimes I'm so glad to not be in the US.
The suit was dismissed, the lesson remains and the world turns. Happy cruising!
I am mainly an auto mechanic and I liked what you said about (lightning) a lot of vehicles have grounding problems
Thanks for the info. I’ve always had questions about lightning as it relates to a fibreglass boat. I think this is the first video that I’ve seen which addresses this question!
I fly for the airlines. There are very rare occasions when we will be flying in ice crystals at high altitudes that develop enough of a charge to create St.Elmos fire on the windshields. It looks really cool, and it behaves like the plasma you see in a glass plasma ball that you may find at a specialty store or a science demonstration. The plasma will be attracted to your finger if you touch the glass. It’s faint, so I’ve only seen this at night. Usually it happens in the vicinity of thunderstorms. Unfortunately, I don’t have a camera that is good enough in low light conditions to capture this.
Similar to your boat, airliners have static (dispersal) wicks that are located on the trailing edges of the tail and wings. These are also intended to equalize the charge.
immensly thank u finally a sailor with real life experience on the subject god bless u man and fair wind
Thanks Luigi. Hope you subscribe and watch our back videos.
Just about to film a similar video except this time it's not lightning it's sharks.
Very good information with the engineers understanding, and the sailors practial experience.
I would like to mention a couple of thoughts that I had while watching your presentation.
The mast MUST be bonded to the ships bonding system also. If a path of low Impedance (resistance is DC-talk. Lightning is true super high frequency RF for grounding purposes so impedance is the actual concern) with no sharp bends, which lightning cannot follow, is provided to a good large area grounding plate, then you have a way to direct the strike to ground.
That imposes several considerations in the routing of the grounding/bonding conductor from the mast bottom, thru the boat to your grounding plate through hull fitting.
Mainly, routing the conductor (flat braid is great for this, using a plastic sleeve where needed for isolation from water, oil etc. so that all turns are gently made, no sharp angles in the braid in order to keep the 'plasma' of the lightning strike from flashing over to nearby metal, and through your fiberglass.
This wire's large-radius-turn pathway should steer clear of the hull interior until over the grounding plate attachment point. Imagine the entire lightning pathway and seek out any spot that would provide the best and shortest pathway.
A full lightning strike..i.e. not a side strike from another target, is going to generate an EMP pulse within the boat itself, and even for a few hundred feet around you possibly. An EMP pulse is going to attack every single electronic device in the boat..in the oven or wrapped in foil.
Remember that the frequencies involved in a strike are like "white noise", in that all frequencies are represented. As the EMP pulse arrives in each device, each component, each wire, each board trace will intercept the EMP energy, inducing very high voltages in each item. Longer tracks or wires will resonate at a lower frequency while shorter wires will resonate at very high frequencies from the EMP pulse. That voltage then goes to the silicon on the board, blowing holes everywhere. All gone..all dead. There is nothing..nothing that you can do to stop that EMP from a direct hit. Hell, your batteries will be burned up even, if you are unlucky.
For me, grounding the mast, and then all other metal on the boat seems to work, judging from 33 years of sailing on Lake Superior where lightning is very common. I believe my experience would be mappable to you guys out there in the wild.
Stay Dry,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
While your description of what an EMP pulse does is correct, the entire point of a good-quality Faraday Cage (and a properly grounded oven or microwave is an excellent Faraday Cage) is to protect the items inside it against such pulses. And they do a good job of it. Otherwise, there would be no point to even having Faraday Cages.
This video is a treasure vault of good info, I learned a lot. I always suspected proper grounding was the answer and with so few boats out there properly grounded I can see that " Houston we have a problem." Then when you consider the position of the knuckleheads at the marina regarding ion dissipators it's a wonder more boats aren't hit and sunk and/or burnt to the waterline. You have a really long aluminum pole sticking out of the water and into a cloud. You have no reason to be surprised over what happens next.
you've covered this better this better anybody i know of. thank you for that.
the only thing that I'd add is for folk to understand that lightening actively follows radio waves. anything transmitting is an attractant.
myself, i'm a lightening magnet, so it's a big concern of mine.
what's your opinion of a wooden mast .
I doubt i'll fly a Bermudan rig, I'm a fan of wingsail, modern junks and even gaffs, all lacking hardware that connects to the boat, other than the electronics that can be disconnected. I'm thinking two disconnects per device, leaving as much as 6 foot for a strike to have to jump.
Thank you. That video was like a public service message. You explained it well in clear and in simple terms. It answered a lot of questions for me, and now I have some work to do. No problem, I don't mind work. It's good to have a path that can really make a difference.
You're welcome Tim. Hope you enjoy our other videos.
I enjoyed this explanation and i will probably review it a couple more times, I dont sail i grew up in the caribbean with a 20' motor boat and i dream of returning some day w another motor boat, but i've had this question of lightning in mind for the past several weeks. See below it occurred just as you explained.
th-cam.com/video/GzkQaGZYdVI/w-d-xo.html
Great video. I have ground wires running all through my mirage 27 I figured they were for something related to lighting. I must have been hit before my radios pooched. First year with boat. Nice to know I should unhook.
Your Right! Many of these sailboat owners who know nothing about electricity, have the same bar room story. Oh those dont work, a waste of money. LOL. I am a Electrical / plasma engineer. these disapaters and direct ground straps to water at the ticket. Thanks for the video
I am not disputing your experience or the solutions you presented, but when you have a negatively charged cloud, mutual inductance would cause it to induce a positive charge on the water below it, not negative as you have indicated. This is true especially because the water is grounded, allowing for the flow of charge.
Wow. Amazing. set of coincidences. I am an engineer. I've been researching lightning from a marine point. I am familiar with what we do from the radio point. So, the reason I'm doing this is two boats I follow on TH-cam were hit. One, Sailing into Freedom. Probably the least prepared. The other, Parlay Revival. Less damage, a more recent Cat, plus they , I believe, lucked out. The guy "Sailing Into Freedom" (Plucky) near Boca was nearly sank. The lightning traveled along his shaft and when it got near the back of the boat, decided to break out of the boat. One thing you didn't mention , perhaps, I'll need to watch again, is that the negative (if you will) charge is located at the surface of the water. So I've been told. So, discharging to the surface of the water is more effective. And, the lightning will try to get there somehow. Side flashes and along the drive line . This is from research only, I am not an expert by any means. So, if that is true, you would try to have conductors go to the surface of the water. Another premise was that you were to try to keep the lightning from coming into the boat. Hum, wonder if a disconnect with a grounding bus outside of the boat would be the way to go, ? The words Faraday cage were used a lot in my research , one would put a Farraday cage around your equipment and keep the lightning from coming into it. We used discharge gadgets when we used the ion Dissipator (antenna's can be Ion Dissipators with their little points on top) . An inexpensive Ion Dissipator available in the states would be a brand new chimney sweep. Of course, you would connect the stainless brush to a metal pole, removing any fiberglass. .
Its amazing how many boaters are looking the other way or burring their heads in the sand. N6GRG
Excellent topic to cover! Especially that two sailing channels I watch are now recovering from direct lightning strikes. Sailing into freedom actually caught his on camera.
Yes I saw into freedoms. What was the other channels name?
Please mention my video to them. Maybe they would be interested in this. Motivated even.
@@Clarks-Adventure the other is Parlay Revival. 45 ft. Lagoon melted the Radio antenna and fried most electronics.
The Cruising Kiwis also were struck. Just rememdered.
Thank you for the video. You are absolutely right. Lightning is a big deal and it scares the heck out of me. I am a Ham operator so have delt with lightning for a long time. Those grounding cables and ion dissipaters work. I also remove antenna cables and place them near a ground. Even a lightning strike near you antenna can induce a pulse through the cable. A trick I use is to make simple overhand knots in my power supply cables. What those create are electrical chokes that help to mitigate surges. I live in Florida so lightning is a serious threat. TY MH Mr. Scott Lane knows what he is talking about.... great input.
Who is Scott Lane?
Thank you for putting this out. I've bought a dissipator for my Typhoon, which we hope to get onto the lake in Nebraska in area known for lightening. Now I will back it up with the plate on the hull. I will do the same on my 25ft sailboat. Thanks again, great video.
Voice of reason ....great info. Thank you sir.
Excellent, Been looking at the Leopard Catamaran, It's got a 12" I Beam running beneath the mast from port to starboard! Great conduit!!!
2nd or 3rd time I have watched this video. As always, Emily & Clark, been watching a long time, have saved many of your videos and this one in particular. (Along with floating painter, washing clothes, et al). Knowledge rules. (scientific primarily). Please continue. Thank you for sharing your expertise, both of you.
Very sobering ! I just moved from Hawaii to North Carolina and do kitesurfing. My concern these days is about getting hit through the kite. Funny how the wind and storms go together... Aloha ~
Bravo another fantastic video. As a new sailer but experienced mechanic I find your videos extremely informative.
Thanks Graham
Thank You. So I understand that assembling LightningDissipator->Mast->BroadCopperBand->CabinMastPole->BroadCopperBand->KeelBoltWashers->Keel->LowerPartOfKeelWithCopperPlateNoAntifouling, while keeping all as straight as it gets, may do it as standby ? Where to have passengers / helmsman to be most protected? How to protect the engine ? What about fire risks with diesel/ gasoline/ propane? What emergency solution if the hull gets punched through? Do sometimes mast fall as result of lightning strikes? Answer as you feel informative/ convienient for you and your audience. Thank You.
Anything can happen with this level of energy
YOU ARE SPOT ON MR. CLARK!
Thanks
Thanks for this! It was kind of information I was really looking for. I will do exactly those things for my boat, conductors for both masts, grounding to the keels and charge dissipator(s) to mast(s). Maybe building a dedicated grounded faraday box for storing essential parts of electric propulsion stuff.
Electrical engineer, and a cruiser, I had to sub.
The ground is usually negative and large negative charge can develop on your boat.
The best way to get that negative charge off the boat is have a metal sphere on top of the mast and put a UV C bulb above it and via the photoelectric effect the electrons will fly off the metal ball. The ball will spray negatively charged air upwards toward the cloud and will keep the voltage too low for a discharge.
Physics guy here, I'm curious what you mean here... as round spheres are generally bad as they build/hold charge. Guess I could see the light being lit as the electrons ionize into the air if wired correctly. Still would need sharp edges to accomplish this, I'd think. Would be like a warning light, too. Would you really need a round sphere at all?
I have watched this so many times.
Thank you for making it and all your invaluable content.
I have a sizable old British Army ammo case… all made from very solid steel. It currently houses my vintage mobile phone collection.
When I get my next boat I aim to find a spot for it, and ground it (as you explained the oven needs to be).
I will get into the habit of keeping all electronic kit not in use in it… come a storm I will but all electronics in there and shut the lid.
Good plan
Thanks Clark. All good information. Still a big subject though and the more technology the bigger the risk. At the moment I am installing LiFePO4 batteries and I started to think about the vulnerability of the electronics and what options there are for protection. A few elements. Masthead: the sertec CMCE is interesting to me, and it carries a Pantanius Insurance endorsement. So if you go that way then the Maretron WSO 100 non moving part wind sensor would make sense from a compatible configuration perspective, and you’ve also solved the masthead bird damage problem. Down inside the boat I am looking at the possibility of an optic fibre data bus for various instruments. Then I’m thinking of lining the power electronics cupboard with metal to give it some cage protection. Once I’ve done all of that, hopefully there will be more evidence based information on what works best.
Your welcome. Thanks for the question. I never thought about the BMSs in the lithium batteries. Concerning.
Re: the sertec device. I only just looked at it but it looks like snake oil to me. Especially based on the words they chose in their marketing document.
I'll look closer sometime.
@@Clarks-Adventure Yes we need much more information. One thing that should be the last thing a boat mast should have at the top is sharp pointy things. My factory got struck by lightning in a storm similar to one of your accounts, it struck the TV and radio antenna. The replacement antenna was the same except it had a plastic cap on the end of the upright pointy bit. The intention is to insulate so an up streamer cannot start. I’m hoping Delos will respond to my question on their masthead disc wind instrument (did it work as advertised/are they still using it?). I’m thinking that regardless of whether the CMCE logic is correct, a dome shape at the masthead is safer than the standard wind indicators which I see as being lightning attractors. Then the next choice is do you encourage the lightning to come down the mast or do you encourage it to come down the outside of the boat. I am thinking the latter but with a copper braid similar to Captain Cook era lightning chain. The modern version might be a dynema cord with a copper core. So I am thinking a solution might be something like the Maretron instrument with a domed aluminium cap and an integrated tri colour, and that is earthed to a braid that is strapped to the outer shrouds with a section that can be dropped into the water and or left in the water when away from the boat (home). At this stage there is no one known answer, but the best knowledge might come from aviation. However, it seems Maretron is discontinued but calypsoinstruments.com/shop/product/ultrasonic-wired-wifi-41 there are new players. I am going to order one and try it at the stern to see how it performs. I suspect Axiom can monitor multiple instruments in different windows. I will talk to www.liros.com/userdata/files/LIROS_Rope_Catalogue_2019_2020_eng_low_res.pdf these people about a custom copper mix cord., though I have some other thoughts on what might be better.
It makes so much sense to dissipate the voltage potential.
Awesome presentation! Really enjoyed being educated!
Great educational lecture, Prof. Clark, and awesome stories of the raw power of nature.
Very informative and enjoyable video. Thanks for sharing your experiences during the thunderstorms!!! Just subscribed👍⛵️
Wow, your story REALLY brought it home about the destructive nature of lightning! In Colorado, I've seen absolutely huge trees obliterated by lightning (many exploded at the base to the point that they fall down-there will be this 2-3 inch strip from the top to the bottom, but the bottom just explodes into a large circle of splinters!) that certainly have more mass in a concentrated area than your boat--so blowing a 2-foot hole in a boat is totally believable; on a Nat-Geo film about Titanic, they said that the combined areal was only 12 square feet and look what that did. I would think that you'd want at least (but probably all) the main mast(s) to have a heavy-high current conduction path from the tip to a plate on the underside of the boat where the mast terminates. I'm a ham so it would be so cool to QSO with you guys--and really prudent you have ham-radio aboard. When I was young, I used to keep CW-skeds with ships at sea (long before they had GPS or SAT-phones) giving WX reports, family welfare traffic and apprising them of dangers etc.
Well, you guys certainly have the life, and I wish all the best to you! 73 & SUBSCRIBED!
Dont own a boat but enjoyed this thoroughly 🥸
I'm very very new to the idea of sailing I thank you for this information
In aircraft, we bond components with a #10 bare copper wire to transmit lightning from one part to the other for entrance and exit of the bolt. I would think that the #10 bare copper wire could be connected to the top of the mast to a dissipator and then routed under the yacht to a good solid metal component. I can't see why one would want a fake stay. Simply run the wire directly with a generous loop where it changes direction and stay away from any of the yacht's systems. The transmission time is in milliseconds. Obviously, the wire will heat up quickly with the enormous current, in spike form, but it is usually not repeated within a short time period.
I traveled 52k nautical miles over 7 years never hit. slippery when wet was 27 tons steel long keel motor sailor. In Malaysia Lankawi just unbelievable afternoon storms. A wooden boat with a smaller mast suffered a complete wireing melt down that cost thousands that was right next to us.
I agree if you can get your boat to the same potential as the water is the best safety advise.
I was also a weatherman with Canada Weather office. We where thought that lightning always tries to find the shortest connecting path. Thats why trees are often struck and why a sailboat mast is such a pray for lightning, especially if your are the only high point in the area. Definitely adding a dissipator is the only solution to seriously protect a boat. Here in Canada I have seen many a ketch rig placing the various antennas on the mizzen mast instead witch is usually shorter and will often be missed by lightning. Also replacing the cable equipment on the top of the mast to wifi will reduce mast hits!
I always thought like that, until working in a tower I saw lightning strike the ground next to it!
Yes. I bet that tower was engineered to quickly change charge state making it invisible to lightning. Tower guys take lightning very seriously since without that engineering they would be magnets to lightning. I learned a lot from tower and power line guys.
Glad to have this on my boat - I didn’t know it was uncommon. The bot was built by an accomplished electrician so that helps explain it
Many years of buyers choosing the cheapest boat has lead to light weight hulls with fewer important systems that make them capable of crossing oceans safely.
This may be the best video you have ever shared. Thank you!
Thanks Bill, so nice of you to say.
Connecting all metals on a boat I believe is called bonding!
I had a Bayfield 26 years ago in the 80s and it was bonded as you describe!
Cheers
You also can put the cables from your antennas in a glass bottle. I use a cb radio at home and when a storms come in . I unhook and put the cables in the one gallon glass jar with a small poor top. Stay safe. Message is from Atlanta Georgia.
Ive been hit 3 times on my cat. I am doing the same thing. Havnt been hit in Florida for 4 years!! Good stuff!
A friend who sails with me and I have been wondering about lightening and this is a great explanation, thank you!
If you add an aluminum rod to the top of your mast with a round end, it may provide a better path in the case of a strike and save antenna and dissipator. Very good information on reducing potential and risk. Thanks.
Fantastic video. We have been in a few nasty lightning storms yet fortunate to never get hit. The sea can be a choppy one even a day later from the strong winds. Safe journeys!
Excellent content, thank you for sharing!
Great information and I loved your stories! What is terrifying when it happens becomes a great adventure story for years afterward I grew up sailing off the coast of Southern California in the Channel Islands. My father was an engineer and could fix anything. So on the way to Santa Cruz Island, sailing 8-10 knots we noticed the boom halyard was flying in the breeze. (My father said a few "prayers" at the top of his voice.) While my dad was fixing that, the shackle on the jib broke. While my brothers were working on that (in high winds and high seas), the wheel broke and the storm tiller had to be installed. After dad did that, the engine was coughing and choking and my mother tried to call the coast guard, but the radio didn't work. (Everything was fine when we left). Moral of the story: Never go sailing on Friday the 13th! My father's family were fisherman and merchants from eastern Canada, and he didn't listen to their "superstitions".) I would never sail on the open sea without someone like my dad on board. We survived because he had taken every precaution and knew how to fix things. Nature is real and doesn't care, as you said, and you are out there alone for the most part. Thanks for the video. (Now I know why we had the zinc in the water. :)
Did you have bananas on board? If you're wondering ask old sailors from the SE US.
Great episode!!!!
Thanks for researching and posting this!
Developed on barstools ! Good one ! 😂
Good storyteller and great advice! Thanks sir!
Great video - love from England!
Excellent job explaining lighting!❤
Thank you so much.
So very good to hear confirmations.
Much better than barstool recommendations.😂
"There're a lot of opinions in the cruising world, mostly formed on bar stools" - Clark. If I ever get a tattoo, it'll be an anchor (of course) and this line. This is a classic video for cruisers (and future cruisers). Terrific useful information. Thank you.
NOAA has a great pdf for lightning and hikers. It's really interesting where you should go and where you should not go in the mountains and a forest.
Thanks Willin. I don't write a script and I almost laughed myself when this came out of my mouth. It was a fun thought.
Please put a link to that document here. I'd like to see it.
@@Clarks-Adventure Of course I couldn't find the pdf I remember. But I found these which I think covers it:
opensummit.com/learn/post/lightning-safety-tips
www.pcta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/BackcountryLightningSafety.pdf
The one thing that got me was not to shelter on a bare rock slope, or under an overhang. When I was googling there was a photo of the lighting hitting a peak and hugging the slope right into the tree line. Reading about a hiker who was killed inside the stone house at the top of Mt Whitney, sitting with his back against the outside wall, I think everyone figured out to sit on their 'butt' pad during a storm.
Great video! Thanks for all the information, I'll be taking it to heart.
Hi Clark. Forget where we met, maybe Panama. Lots of good info, thanks for that reminder of the ion dissipator, need to get one. Also wanted to mention that we were in a storm off Pacific coat Panama where we also had the large Star Trek like beams coming down around us. We called it trunk lightening because it reminded of a sequoia tree trunk. These days I think they are being called “super-bolts”. Thanks for the entertainment too!
I experienced those on land in the Philippines. I was in my car, multiple strikes probably 20' away. Static had my thighs tingling. The power was surreal. Terrifying. Massive blue bolts. Like a Marvel movie.
Great video, thanks 🙏
Emily & Clark I would be interested in how you sail your boat in all different places. All different ways to sail your boat from using your sail and also using your engine. How and why you use sail or engine, and how fast does your boat go on sail or engine. Lastly it would be interesting to see how you dock or anchor correctly. I really enjoy all your videos!
Just to be a bit pedantic (from one (retired) electronics engineer to another) you don't need to ground an oven for it to act as a Faraday screen. The only requirement is that it should be a conductive structure completely surrounding the equipment it is shielding. A reasonable alternative, if you have any on board, is to wrap the delicate items completely in aluminium foil.
Thanks. I wasn't sure on that while filming and decided to error on safe.
22:10 lightning doesnt travel at the speed of light, but you are right its a hell of a lot faster than a person. Great tips in this video, thanks for sharing!
Superb! Great advice 👍👍
Amazing instructional video by a Master level teacher. Well done! Love watching. ❤️
Appreciate you taking the time to make these videos
Fascinating video...I've been thinking a lot about lightning and how to decrease the chances of being hit on a fibre-glass hulled trawler yacht...especially if I had a tall SSB antenna coming off the flybridge halo. Your lighting stories are terrifying especially the one regarding the Bahamas...I've never heard of fire lightning.....that is utterly terrifying. I'm amazed that lightning strikes aren't given more of a priority in yacht design. The thought of a lightning strike putting a hole through the hull is worrying to say the least. Thanks so much for explaining the concept of allowing your vessel to change 'ionically' to match the surroundings to decrease the risk of a strike.
Very informative. Thanks for sharing.