The stories take time ...and while initially seem like unnecessary, are in fact reminders that some items on the boat are critical for survival, if not your own, someone else...there is nothing more depressing than to be aware of a distress situation and the feeling of helplessness if you are not able to help...while being able to help makes for a better life and my belief that good Karma will be returned many times more than expected, so thank you Clark for the stories, they fill out the purpose of a life well lived...congrats!
Really good information clearly told. In the late 70’s and early 80’s our fishing club used CB radios in addition to our VHF radios on our skiffs. One of my friends blew an outdrive about a mile east of Bimini. He tried to call for help on his CB and go a response from someone who said where’s Bimini. My friend said it’s 55 miles east of Miami. The other person said he was just outside of Knoxville, TN and could not help. My friend said his 21’ skiff back to Florida using his Bimini top as a sail.
Full disclosure: I was trained in the Navy to repair comm equipment (though not to OPERATE it ;-) , I hold a Extra Class Amateur Radio license and have operated VHF for most of the time I’ve been a ham (since 1993). Kudos on a great video, especially for the less electronics-technically inclined sailor. Would really enjoy a video on your ham gear & setup, experiences with it, if you use Pactor for email while at sea (Winlink or Seamail?), etc. General and, hopefully, kibbitzing comments: 1. DC power connection to radio - clean, solid connections through properly sized wire is an absolute imperative. Recommend using a wire voltage drop table to properly size the wire between the battery and the radio to ensure that the radio gets 12 volts and above. Use the current that the radio is spec’d to draw on TRANSMIT. Radios tend to get very cranky when the supply voltage drops below 12Vdc. Note re supply power: As marine VHF radios us FM modulation, for a given power setting modulation (one’s voice into the microphone) has no effect on output RF power. Simply keying the radio is enough to measure the voltage at the radio dc power terminals/connections 2. Coax: Agree 100%: RG-58 SUCKS for VHF. Loss over a short length ( a few feet isn’t enough to lose any sleep over, but from the nav station to the antenna, LMR-400 ULTAFLX (Times Microwave) is an excellent choice. Recommend the ULTRAFLX over standard LMR-400 as the former has a stranded center conductor to give the cable flexibility vs, the solid center conductor of the latter that makes for some pretty stiff cable. For some reason, West Marine doesn’t offer LMR-400 ULTRAFLX but it is readily available from amateur radio equipment suppliers. 3. RF connections: ESPECIALLY in salt water environments, use self-fusing rubber electrical tape (e.g., Scotch Tape 70 or 3Mself-amalgamating tape) to wrap the connection from the connector toward and down the cable. Add a second wrap of electrical tape over the first to protect it from UV and salt-air. If wrapping a PL259-SO239 barrel-PL259, start several inches from one of the PL259. 4. RF cable water intrusion from experience (30 min point in the video): for my money where my life might depend on my radio, if any water invades coax, esp where one end of the cable is up in the air, I would not depend on it. I strongly recommend replacing the entire length. Compared to the cost of lots of boater stuff, at about $2.30/ft, replacing a length is cheap insurance. 5. Antenna height: height = range. Open air (no obstructions) NOMINAL range in miles can be calculated as 1.42 x square root H1 + H2 where H is the heights of the station antennas in feet. >However
I served in the australian navy as a comms operator and found this explanation and advice excellent for general sailors. by the way for cable connections we covered them in impregnated cotton wrap which would last for years preventing water penetration. very difficult to remove though.
Nice one Clark! Very informative. Love you guys! One thing I would have touched on and is generally overlooked is the twisting/shielding and routing of the power wires. A large percentage of you will say it doesn't matter because its DC, however I would have to disagree based on experience. Remember that day when you were so proud of your new car stereo install and it sounded so good ….until you started your car. There was a terrible whine that was proportional to the rpm of the engine...You had to fix this using an EMI filter. I am a design engineer in aerospace and defense (specifically designing automated test systems for electronic..."things that are critical to your survival"). Collective data would support twisting of the power wires as the default go-to if cost and weight do not prohibit its use. When in doubt twist them and shield them. Two reasons....1. Reduced susceptibility to noise from other magnetic fields. 2. Reduced magnetic radiation from loads that are switching. Additionally, the routing of these wires is even more critical. Its generally a bad idea to run power wires to your radio in parallel with wires going to your bilge pumps, transducers, stereo speaker wires, shore power lines, etc. I'm guessing there is a filter circuit on the power input side of a quality radio, but to cut costs in a Chinese radio I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't exist at all. Scenario: Your sinking and the bilge pumps are now running full bore, and an inductive interference is now coupled to your radio when your calling for Mayday. All they hear at the other end is a whining bilge pump with some guy garbled underneath all the noise. Greetings from Clearwater!
Excellent coverage of a much misunderstood topic. Also coax looses more power if it gets deformed, pinched, flattened, bent too tight, looped excessively. Technical stuff: Some antennas work with a ground plane like the 3db quarter wave whip. Their pattern suffers without a good ground plane, which is another piece of the system not always addressed on boats. Some antennas work without a ground plane, like the 6db design you prefer. For people who want deeper understanding, buy the ARRL Antenna handbook as a place to start.
ground plane was something I was wondering about (coming from AM broadcast back ground). I have a small boat with a hand made antenna about 3 foot dipole and a bigger boat with an 8 foot antenna. The 3 foot radio is grounded through the motor, just because it is electric start. The 8 foot is not because there is no electrical connection to the motor and the hull is glass. The small antenna seems to receive better (weather channels) than the 8 foot (which is also higher up). But from what you have just said, the 8 foot would be a dipole and should not need a ground plane... so cable or antenna I guess (the radio is new the cable and antenna are old).
@@lenwhatever4187 8' sounds a little long to be a dipole in that frequency range. A standard center-fed dipole will be a half-wavelength. 234 divided by the frequency x 12= 1/4 wave in inches. Longer is NOT better.
@@marcialsantiago8383 Thats true, though multiples of 1/4 wave do work as in the rhombus . On the other hand, making an antenna that requires a ground plane does not make sense (plastic boats don't make very good ground planes). The size of my DIY one was short (1 meter-ish - 1/2 wave) because of that. But 8 foot antennas are a thing. They are also supposed to have a higher gain yet still be omni. So possibly a set of stacked dipoles similar to those used in commercial FM/TV antennas (I can't remember the spacing required off hand). In any case, grounding should not be required because an 8 foot whip would suffer from the same effect. A 5/8 element with a matching coil, such as used for mobile 2meter using the car roof for ground plane, with a second similar set turned upside down to act as return works out to around 8 ft as well.... And is simpler than stacked dipole. It would be interesting to know what is actually used.
@@lenwhatever4187 reflectors can be made. I know Firestick actually produces a base station mount that has reflectors on it. Personally, if the mast is non-conductive,I'd go with a slim jim. But then again, I have the option of building my own.
Thank you for this video. I was kicking around the idea of getting a marine radio and didn't know which antenna would be the best, so I came here and I am glad I did! Very informative! I ended up getting a Tram with 6 db gain.
Great video, I am a ham and the info in this video is spot on. Good equipment, good connections, water,proofing to keep corrosion down. Understanding db, antenna placement. Good stuff for the layman to adhere to.
Love your stories! As a beginner sailor, I started to get some nice stories to tell too, until now, mainly what goes wrong. I'll check my VHF cables and antenna, thanx so much for sharing your expertise.
Love the tech talk and story sandwich. The stories brought a lot of life to something that might have, otherwise, been a little more difficult to see the applicability behind.
Very good. Missing is at least a mention of installing a dedicated cheap GPS antenna powered by the same circuit, a $30 part, that when combined with obtaining and programming an MMSI number gives your vhf radio the ability in the USA to send your gps location to authorized after pressing distress button. So many people fail to set this up, mentioning the importance in your video would contribute to awareness. The coast guard can better respond when they are convinced you know exactly where you are, and it helps novice boaters better succeed with the radio when the skipper is incapacitated. In addition products like the MOB1 can be setup to work with your vhf radio to alert crew if you fall out of boat. See if you can edit and include early on when you describe the install process involves antenna and power wire. Dan, marine electronics writer, practical sailor magazine.
Excellent advice Clark. The last boat that owned me was a 34' Tolly. Icom VHF, 10 gage power wire, with 6 4700 mfd 35 volt caps parallel at the entry point. Shakespeare 1/2 wave 17' antenna, RG8X coax, soldered PL239's, fold down mount like yours. 60 mile range most days.
Good job. One thing when running coax is to avoid very sharp bends. If your bend is too sharp the inner wire can migrate through the insulation and touch the outer wire over time causing a dead short. Also worth mentioning that super cheap tv coax is 75 ohm and should be avoided. SWR meters really come into their own when tuning an antenna.
EXCELLENT job done on the topic . As a technician in the Royal Australian Navy and now as a Ham radio trainer I fully agree with everything covered here. Cheers
Some pointers: I’d recommend going to 1/2” RF cable instead, it has lower loss, and has a solid corrugated copper shield, which means a hole in the outer sheath won’t wick water into the cable. You’ll need to add two more connectors and move to a thinner cable at both ends, but if you use N-type connectors the loss in the connectors will be less than the loss of the RG-213. There’s also other options that are a bit more flexible, but they are a lot more expensive. For connectors, I recommend first taping the joint with self-vulcanizing tape (silicone if you can find it), and then taping over it with 3M Super 88 electrical tape (this is the stuff you want, there’s nothing like it), this is how we do radio systems for critical infrastructure.
One of the more expensive options is LMR-400, probably around $2/ft, but loss is 1.5dB/100ft at VHF. Add N-connectors and you are probably going to get close to 20W at the antenna feed instead of the 15W from 213. Maybe not worth pulling out the 213, but likely noticeable if you are on open water and every bit of distance matters.
Clark I agree LMR400UF (ultra flexible) has a solid inner and double screen jacket. Designed for outdoor use and is a good seal to water ingress, attenuation at 150MHz is 1.5dB. I also agree that N-Type connectors are the best to use, so the antenna (commercial type) usually come with a N-Type female on it, just have to replace the bulkhead fitting on the radio to N-Type female. The tape I have used for the last 40 years has been Scotch23 self vulcanising tape a good UV and waterproofing tape for antenna/feeder cable connections. Used it inland and on tugs and dredgers I worked on.
@@glennwillems9924 Yeah, we've now switched to that, as Super 88 seems to have been discontinued in Europe. It's not quite as good but less messy (Super 88 leaves a black residue).
Love this Clark! Full on geek out and brilliant stories too. Thanks for sharing. Good reminder that sometimes having the best gear is about being able to help in general, not just whatever your own use case might be.
Great video! I've been refitting an old Hughes 38 and the radios were installed with soldered alligator clips! So I've been trying to figure how to install a good radio set up. This really helped!
You guys simply rock! I love all the actual break down of the how tos. Whether it’s Clark doing a vid like this, or Emily doing the cooking and canning food prep, this is an absolute gem of a channel!
EXCELLENT video! I've been a Ham radio operator since 1978 or so (and have been using radio even longer), and I used to sail quite a bit, plus I spent six years in the US Navy working on RDF systems at sea. You covered all the good points in a way that anybody should be able to understand, whether they had any experience or training in the field or not. Your stories are on point and not too long; vital to the topic! The only triviality I can think of is the 3dB vs 6dB graphics: I know this is anal and probably more trouble than it's really worth, but I've tried to train people in a variety of situations...I think many people would be caught by the 2D illustration. I'm sure a 3D toroid image, especially if it moved with the boat, would have gone into people's brains like gangbusters. Perhaps pointing out that the illustrations represented a "doughnut shape" would have helped. Perhaps a bit more on weatherproofing those cables? I used ScotchKote, I think it was called, after packing the fittings with silicon grease (that's what dielectric grease normally is; other greases--even petroleum jelly--will degrade insulation materials), and then wrapping the whole fitting in self-vulcanized tape (several types available at hardware stores, in the electrical or even plumbing sections), and finally covering with a good abrasion-resistant tape and smearing the whole mess with goo such as EPDM or even outdoor silicon window caulk. Yes, it's money, but after spending so much on a cable, I want that cable to last. I'm glad I stumbled onto this video, even though you're not actually "building" a radio itself, but rather building a radio system. Liked and subscribed!
What is being a HAM operator got to do with it? Because your a HAM op you think you rule the airwaves? You think you have a staus above and beyond? Being a HAM operator, stick to your HAM bands. Marine, is NOT HAM.
@@mikejohns3104 See this is the point i'm making.. You assume i dont have my HAM licence, you think your one of a kind lol The thing is, i have my HAM licence, Mike. I just dont like when fellow HAMs think they own the whole spectrum. It gives us a bad name.
@@BitsofSkin You don't know what I am thinking. I don't care of you are a ham or not. You have not made a point. Your initial comment didn't even make any sense. We are not the same. Good luck sad ham.
Hey Clark, thanks for this info. I’m not a boater (yet), but I’m finding our all I can before we take the leap into boating. You and Emily are interesting and fun, but mostly informative. So thanks from Southern UK in 2022.
Nice video. I used a really good cable to replace my coax up the mast and did all the right stuff. It was a new antenna too. Struggled with it all th way down to El Salvador. Range was like 3 miles. I had even replaced connectors and soldered them at the bottom of the mast, even used gold plated connectors. I used a swr meter on it and it always pointed me too the mast base connection. I finally stripped it back, cut off the connects, and soldered the core leads together. Liquid electrical taped it, electrical taped it, amalgamated taped it heat shrieked it, and took the shielding braid and soldered and sealed all that and sealed the whole thing. My tested range was 28 miles with the 3db antenna. We were good with that. 22 years later I added an AIS and auto splitter and our range went down considerably, and the AIS especially. Turns out AIS frequencies are just above marine VHF and we were getting a lot of reflection. I bought a 4db combo vhf AIS antenna and all my problems went away. Interestingly enough my range increased to about 60 miles now confirmed by San Diego Coast Guard. That higher db antenna helped and I think the antenna switch has a booster built in.
Having SWR properly adjusted reduce the heat on your power transistors in your radio. SWR is really important. Regarding coaxial cables, you also get them UV treated (and people need to know to NOT get the non UV protected ones). Personally I like to use High gain metal antennas, they've lasted a long time for me. Also a shorter whip (black thin ones) are good as a backup mounted away from the mast in case of demasting. Obviously not as good as an antenna in the mast, but in an emergency you would like to have all the bells and whistles. Having satellite is of course a choice, but I am not doing a crossing without it. Thank you so much for the video and have a great day! 😊
Ham radio guy here. Great job and video. The one point I would also stress is that the loss in the coax and the gain of the antenna BOTH affect your ability to RECEIVE just as much as it does on transmitting. If your Effective Radiated Power is one fourth due to the small antenna and coax, you receive one fourth as much signal as well. I tell the new ham operators that want to get a 65 or 70 watt mobile (we are allowed RIDICULOUS power...) to put the extra dollars into the antenna. (We use dual band VHF/UHF antennas, there are many types from 17" to over 5', more IS MORE. Base dual band antennas go to 17')
I think I do say that but I guess I didn't hammer it home as I've gotten a lot of comments about this. I don't actually write my videos. I just turn in the camera and start talking. Then Emily cuts out the stuff that didn't work. I miss stuff sometimes. And this one went really long. I think I hit the receive issue harder when I did a little talk about db but that didn't make the final cut. Thanks Clark. KD7ENJ
Excellent video. One other option for smaller center console boats is Digital Antenna’s 4' VHF it has 4.5dB gain. The 800 Series doesn't come with cable so you can use a high quality RG-213.
Thank you for all this good information. We bought a new (to us) boat that the radio appeared to work to the surveyor when the mast was down and in a barn. But in sailing her, we could hear on the radio but not transmit. I thought I would have to replace the radio, but after listening to this I will now first check the antenna wire. Thank you!
Seriously, this channel really differentiates. You really pack a punch by making really intrinsic knowledge easily understood and accessible. The two of you are amazing. Keep up the good work!!!
GREAT ADVICE, thank you! I just found your channel because TH-cam recommended your boat electrics playlist when I ordered a new set of buses on Amazon (my $200 eBay sailboat has a short somewhere). Weird times we live in, but anyway, it was really helpful and I shared it with my brother, who lives in the Keys, and is always helping friends troubleshoot their 12v systems. He said it’s an awesome playlist and has favorited your channel to pass on to others. THANK YOU!
On my dad's boat, we had the VHF on a double throw switch, with the second connection going to a 5 amp-hour sealed lead acid battery. It was charged by a 5 watt solar panel trickle charger. It was nice knowing that we had a completely independent electrical system for emergencies. Fortunately we never needed to use it.
As I'm remembering from my Navy Electronics Technician "A" School (40+ years ago), you want to try and match your cable length to a multiple of the WAVELENGTH of your transmitting/receiving frequencies as part of the tuning process. Of course the antenna also needs to be tuned to that band as well. Trimming the cable to some multiple of 6 feet would give you the lowest SWR (over the entire band) for any given cable, assuming the connectors are good/tight and the antenna is properly tuned. Note: You can also trim to the half-wave if you're concerned about the loss over 3 feet of cable. Very informative, I agree with some of the other posters about using heliax instead of coaxial cable _IF_ you have a straight run or only gentle bends to minimize losses. Not all that useful in a marine environment except possibly for the run up the mast.
Love this. The little things make all the difference. Most people don't worry about the little things until it is too late. You want your safety equipment available and ready before the emergency happens!
You guys are amazing! I appreciate and value the info you guys contribute to the cruising life. This was a great episode and the stories were the icing!
100% buy the 8' antennae! He's right. I cannot believe the reception I get now compared to the shorty on a 21 footer (Shakespeare too, IMO). Appreciate your videos, big help!
Once again the tutorials are great. I have some knowledge of this through HAM and CB radios on land but it's nice to know how to set up the VHF for offshore use! I just bought my first sailboat and am beginning the learning process in freshwater here in my home state of South Carolina. I dream of doing what you guys are doing when I retire. Keep the videos going, great job and I appreciate it.
Thank you, very informative, going to upgrade my coax cable and cut to length after seeing that chart with the gains. Yes, I installed the free cable wire (cheap stuff) that came with the antenna and wound all the extra cable up.
Thanks,. Take a look at the description. I found a better and cheaper wire that I listed there. I think there might be a link to it in our Amazon store.
@@Clarks-Adventure Will do, thanks again. I am in the process of restoring a Catalina 25, tall rig, swing keel, traditional, to learn to sail on and currently have a Carver 330 Mariner motor yacht. So both are getting the upgrades on that cable. Safe sailing you two.
Great video! Clark, I am an amateur radio operator (KF0BPN) and the principles you talk about are the most crucial. 1) Nominal voltage to the radio. 2) Use bigger DC wire than what is recommended or as big of gauge (AWG) as you can make work. 3) Get the antenna as high as possible and in the clear. Height is might. 4) Buy quality feedline (coax cable). Absolutely spend more money here because this is what will suck your power out of the transceiver. a. If you really want to geek out, check out Times Microwave cable loss calculator. Additional thoughts: 1) Use a Type N connector at the antenna mount. Add Coax moisture proof sealing tape as extra insurance. a. Advantages: slightly less loss than PL-259 and are more watertight. 2) Coax moisture proof sealing tape on the PL-259 connector at the transceiver. One correction about your reference to DB. DB by itself doesn’t mean anything. It needs to be in relation to a reference antenna. Normally there are two references used: isotropic radiator (dBi) or standard dipole (dBd). Found your channel while doing some Marine HF radio research. Love the stories! Keep it up. Thank you, sir.
Good video. I listened because I'm installing a radio for the first time. But, I have to say... The stories were my favorite part! Thank you for the video.
What luck to come across your very informative video. I just bought a used Sailboat with mares tail wiring system, if you can use word system. As a Pilot I want things working RIGHT. Thank you for a great presentation. I am passing it on.
Great video Clark. I always enjoy the technical part of the videos, but I think we all learn so much from your stories and even (if any) mistakes, so please continue to give us stories. One thing, on checking for voltage drop on the circuit feeding the radio while it's on and transmitting, if the spade connectors are aren't easy to access with the voltmeter, for some it might be helpful to make a temporary "T" splice to plug in and allow access with the meter leads. Cheers
Hi Clark ,great vid on explaining how to get the best out of a marine vhf ,thank you..to answer your request ..often on FB discussions lead to refrigeration problems, battery ,aircon etc and when i decide to comment and add my 10 cents worth ,I often refer people to your channel because of your interesting detailed way of explaining the how too and why it works on your subjects you discussed . .thanks again to you and Emily for a great channel
VHF theoretical range. 1.23 x the square root of your mast height above the water's surface in feet. Versus 1.18 for line of sight. So, yup, up the mast she goes! Also, some thought given for grounding of some sort for lightning strike:) ie the outside of the pl-259 to the mast. Great video!
The double female your talking about is a PL-258 just treaded at each end with no tread in the middle. A barrel connector you can get at different lengths and is treaded the whole length which you can mount as a feed through with a nut on each side of per say a wall or what ever..Also never ever coil the coax up it will cause inductance and alot of weird stuff. Just leave aliilte extra (1.5 to 2 ft) near your antenna and radio incase you need to change out the PL-259. I use a Tram 3db antenna with about 15ft of RG -58 coax mounted on the aluminum awning which is the highest point on my 20ft Sun tracker fishing barge pontoon boat. Also I strongly suggest to check the SWR of your antenna. If the coax or antenna is bad, it could very well destroy your radio with extended use of the radio Mike N2JVE Niverville, N.Y.
Better off with type N connectors. the PL-259 will always leak water, and the losses through a saltwater-soaked pl-259 are nearly 100% at VHF. N connectors are easy, sealed against moisture, not that expensive.
@@Clarks-Adventure ok, no worries, sometimes hard to know if its a US thing or somesuch... that cable seems super, fairly inexpensive, now you have me pondering a complete overhaul! What do you make of antenna cable splitters for radio reception with the same antenna... does that impact the signal, aside from obviously more connections with the box in the middle?
It's actually rather easy to replace cable in a standing mast Cut the connectors off and see the cables together with needle and string. Add one layer of tape and pull the new cable through with the old I spray the new with dry silicone lube on the way in at the top of the mast. Two person job but really easy.
congratulations indeed! a very informative video, good mix of information and storytelling IMO. I would like to mention the possibilities of using a cheap SO239 adapter to allow the use of a removeable antenna handheld with your main antenna system, for the sake of extra reliability, and yes, a rather short lenght, but still adequate to the boat size, of the smallish cheaper cable with pre-soldered and properly preserved terminals and one of the newer "portable deployable" VHF antennas intended for hiking with handheld radios - maybe in vac bags - can be very useful for those not "attuned" to fashion DIY antennas. yes, radios and even good antennas eventually fail, cables get corroded, and one J pole field antenna hoisted at some 5 meters of coax, even from a handheld, should give an edge until the main system is back in order, for those DIY inclined, if I may, there are cable collinear and J pole antennas projects over the internet and even a pair of full wavelenght triangular loops at 90 degrees from each other, fashioned from ordinary electric wires and spliced to the thin coaxial may be useful, if not critical, back-up. of course, depending on untested solutions is not safe - I am talking secondary and tertiary options. not everyone is "attuned" to antennae building, and even those absolutely perfectly tested, reliable projects should be considered BKP for approved, 1st rate marine commercial products - as required by insurance and laws.
Shared on patreon with The Prepared Mind. Shared because great info and stories of why you need to be prepared. If you think about a boat it's gotta have everything for life. So water, food, shelter, first aid/medications, means of defense, and a plan.
Stumbled on to your channel after watching a few new episodes from Jeff Cote @ Pacific Yachting Systems. This is an excellent description about the value (and workings) of a marine VHF radio/antenna. I know that you had to ‘gloss’ over the example of VD (voltage drop) but I think it’s a VERY important issue that not many understand (including a lot of electricians!) I’m looking forward to any more of your videos on the electrical perils that faced in the marina atmosphere. I’m a (now retired) 2nd generation electrician having worked in commercial/industrial/marine installations, then going on to be a trades training instructor for electrical apprentices, to finally a provincial government Electrical Safety Officer (inspector) and also a level 3 fire/accident investigator. My ‘new’ self employed career is in small boat wiring repairs/alterations/installations and the things I see on some of these boats drive me CRAZY at times, some of it is bad right from the mfg, which is how I got ‘sucked’ into the world of ‘bad’ small boat wiring after buying my own new 22’ power boat retirement present! I’m also in the process now of getting my ABYC certification, which will really only be for my own satisfaction. Keep providing the information, your explanations and teaching style are great!
Thanks. You might like this. I looked into the refrigeration on a new French boat last year. Owner complained it was cutting out at night. The refrigerator was getting like 11volts even though the solar was putting out like 14v at the batteries. Turned out that not only was the fridge connected to the panel with tiny wire. The panel was connected to batteries through a battery selector switch for positive, one for the negative side as well, two different resistant shunts, fuses, a disconnect of some kind. All in all there must have been 15 terminals in that part of the circuit. And not exactly huge wire. Huge loss just getting to the panel. All installed pretty so I guess it was ok in French eyes.
@@Clarks-Adventure Let me guess, it was either a Beneteau, Jeanneau or Lagoon? From many other videos I've seen, the Beneteau Group as a whole had some pretty shoddy QC several years ago. Although my cousins had a 1970's era Beneteau 27 that had zero problems.
When comparing antennas also be aware that they are rated as either dBi or dBd - dBd is already 2.15 dBi Your long contacts are due to tropospheric ducting - there will be a huge dead spot between the skip jumps Ducting is amazing you can make 2000km+ contacts on VHF - obviously much more common on the 2m amateur band as they spend lots of time actually trying to make the contacts. The 8' antennas are great as they are a proper 1/2 wave dipole so are not relying on a variable quality (if any) ground plane - you might be interested in the DIY dipole that's easy to make & rig especially in those time where you have to take your mast-top one down Radio propagation is a fascinating thing ...
Marine VHF frequencies around 156.xx versus 2 Meter at 144 to 148, are better for long range work in theory than the 2 Meter band, of course 2 Meter radios CAN have Single Side Band which is better than FM for long distance work. And 2 Meter radios can have greater power.
Thanks SO much to both of you for giving us all these great tips and info! We are gathering and keeping them all for future installations and ventures..We are Alberta ranchers with a dream..building our own blue water 32 foot sailboat, in our shop, alongside our farm equipment.. We spend all our "free time" LOL( . when the cow herds and crops don't need our imminent attention ..like between midnight and 5 AM!!) ..on our boat. SV FORTUNE FOUND...We love her already and hope to splash her on the west coast of Canada in 2023. And then join you cruisers in some warmer climes!! You two are helping us to do it RIGHT from the START!! SO PLEASE BE AS DETAILED AS YOU CAN.. NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR THAT! We gobble this stuff up.. Cheers from Mac and Maggie.
Thanks. Enjoyed your video. I’m having issues with a factory installed VHF (2019) and your video has given me plenty to think about. I already use a very common Australian VHF marine antenna (8 ft , 3db, GME brand). One thing I’ve noticed with the Shakespeare antenna is that the supplied cable is RG58 and hard wired into the base. If you were to upgrade to the 213 cable you would have to “join” it to the supplied cable which is a shame. Mind you, I’m intending to install the radio no more than 3ft from the antenna under my hard top so that length of RG58 cable is not likely to present huge losses. The other downside to the hard wired antennas is the fact that you can’t unscrew them from the mount easily - upside is there is one less connection point at the mount - swings and roundabouts!
Hello Emily & Clark.. Ive been watching since you 1st got together but I seldom comment. First, THANK YOU for the very interesting content and your knowledge. (I have to chuckle that Emily is filming and quiet behind the camera). Sure appreciate that you both keep life simple and explain clearly. (I built a dink too..thanks Emily) I'm refitting my Tartan 37 and your videos are my guiding light. Fair winds.
VHF is typically line of sight with the horizon at 21 miles, give or take antenna height. But, atmospherics also play a role. If we are at the peak of the sun cycle or other atmospherics, you can go exponentially further. Even if you don’t want to get licensed as a ham, it would do you good to read a technician study guide to get a good understanding of how he works. If you want ssb, you’ll need a general or higher level study guide i
But still the bands are more open then in years past. Just not that many young people interested now days with the internet and so many other things to absorb the attention of the technically minded.
First , people try to power too many things straight to the battery, go from battery to a fuse box, with the right size wire, , then power the radio , with the right size wire , this also provides power for more accessories. thanks for the vid
A couple weeks ago I shared your how to use the radio video on a Facebook group for O'Day sailboats. Based on the comments there it looked like it was well received.
Good video. I am right with you on power loss in DC supply lines. Also with radios. Yes RG213 is an excellent choice for cable, though I would argue crimp connectors, with the proper tooling, may have an advantage over solder/screw cinch types in that the solder creates a possible point where metal fatigue can occur where the solder and copper junction end. I personally use N type crimp whenever possible. They come in stainless and have o rings built in to inhibit moisture. I still wrap them though. I also have tried several methods to stabilize the cable inside the mast to eliminate wear and noise from the constant slapping against the inside of the mast. I would be hesitant with dielectric grease inside the connectors. It is lossy at higher frequencies, not so much at VHF though. I used to install microwave systems over coax. We found SELF FUSING SILICON RUBBER TAPE such as Rescue Tape to be very effective at sealing the connectors outdoors exposed to weather. I have had good experience with 5/8 wave antennas as they have a good horizontal pattern and are not excessively long and have about 4db of gain.
I have terrible range on my radio, and I suspect I know why. I replaced the cable with Times Microwave LMR-400 Ultraflex cable, and replaced the 3db antenna with a new Metz 3db. I picked Metz because they got great reviews and claimed the Coast Guard uses them. The radio is a new B&G V60-B, and I have a Si-tex AIS transponder with built in splitter. I'm certain I could benefit from a good 6db antenna and will be changing that soon, but I suspect the AIS is probably the main culprit. And of course I'm still using the microscopic cable to go from the radio to the AIS that was with the AIS. I think my best plan is to run a second cable and use the 3db for a dedicated AIS antenna, and take the LMR-400 cable with a new 6db antenna straight to the radio. Thanks for a great and informative video.
Your video is so right !! I'm on this business for your curiosity only check the reflectometer if you know all the length it will tell you where the cable is bend or if it is antenna or cable
New camera? This reminds me of my radio / radar / tube classes in engineering school back all those years ago. Had to make a field strength meter, tune antennas, all that kinda stuff. Haven't used it in 30+ years. Great vid as always1
Good video! I am a Ham and have been Radio enthusiast for decades, This was a great explanation of some of the finer points of a good install, and why things like a good power source are important as well as the basics of low loss coax and a good antenna are the true keys to a good install. The comment about not spending a lot on the radio itself was dead on. 25 watts is the Max any of them can illegal put out as mandated by the FCC, my advice would be, pick the radio with the best heat sink at the best price! and try to provide a place for radio that is protected from direct sunlight and rain. ... nice job!
SWR meter - cheap and good to have in particular if you get a dummy load on top of it. Put dummy load at antenna connection and you see if all is good to antenna - or you know that the problem is in the coaxial cable.
I,am ham radio in Qc north Montreal va2 and ve2 you make a good thing to help the cata family ,73 man I like your videoes ,I,am not a good thecnician ,but i can discute in french for most of the time but understand english , 73 again
Good video. Spot on with the stats. Been a ham since the 70's. We talk a couple hundred miles routinely on 2 meter VHF (same band as marine freq. And I do check into the MMSN (Maritime Mobile Service Net) on 20 meters. I know how feel as you were telling the story. I was monitoring (14.300mhz) one night when there was a Mayday. Prior it was just general chat and weather. That net went from casual to all business in a drop of a hat. Net control was like Bill contact USCG, John see if there cargo ships in the area. Net reminded the ship have on floatation devices and got their GPS info. as I remember it, they were out of fuel and water and were out of range of his vhf radio. AS you said, that's what amateur radio operators do.
Hi, I’m a ham radio operator and we have a saying: $1 for the transceiver, 10 for the antenna! The antenna cable is important as the frequency and length increase. For example, at identical length, power and cable, in HF (10 M) the loss will be "low" compared to VHF (even more in UHF). The loss increases with frequency. I do not share completely your analysis on the quality of the RTX. There are significant differences, some have better filters, protections, frequency stability, reception sensitivity, functions, etc.. And some are sometimes equipped with a DSP system, very useful on weak signals. Ok, it’s not vital but it’s important. If we consider VHF as a safety equipment, we should not skimp and choose the best at the best price. Have a nice day. Nice video and good info 👍
Yes I could do one. My antenna and counterpoise work really great. But I don't think many use hf anymore. We would only get a few hundreds of views. It's hard enough to get people to watch the electrical series. Hope people keep sending links to friends.
@@Clarks-Adventure yes I totally get it. The electrical series will probably be a great reference edition. Probably keep getting more and more views over time as people. They are brilliant btw.
Really appreciate your wisdom and stories! This tracks to everything I know about RF. Don't focus on increasing power, focus on minimizing signal loss, eliminating noise and using as close as you can to a full-wave antenna (think the 8' is a half wave and 4' is 1/4 wave??). RF is cool stuff if you can grasp the basics. FYI... you should be able to see where people are coming to your videos on the YT analytics.
Ham and retired FCC technical wonk here; Great video. Some comments: •72 ohm cable is used in the video industry and looks very similar. DON'T USE IT regardless of how little you may have to pay for it. It is labels as 72 ohm •I suggest a second radio in the cockpit with a low antenna nearby independent of the mast antenna for short range regular use and a backup for the main radio. Height really matters so the range will be limited, but adequate for most uses for talking to boats or marinas you can see visually. Since the required cable to connect antenna to radio is a few few, cable loss is not very important so use any cable that has good physical qualities such as waterproof and sun resistance. Having an independent power source for this radio would be helpful but may be difficult in practice •I disagree with the discussion around 23:00 about low gain/high gain antennas. I suggest only using low gain antennas on masts so in emergencies you don't have to worry about heel. •VHF radio propagation is quirky and depends on thermal inversions. Sometimes in Chesapeake Bay we can suddenly hear boats from Long Island Sound. Don't be surprised. It happens intermittently •If you are a ham, the 2m ham band is close to the VHF marine band. You can put in a spdt coax switch on the antenna and share it between you ham radio and marine radio • As stated around 20:00, an SWR meter is a good check on the cable system and antenna are working well. Considering borrowing one or asking a radio tech to do this check from time to time. They case under $50 but could be hard to store for voyages.
" I suggest only using low gain antennas on masts so in emergencies you don't have to worry about hee" He explains in great detail how infrequently heel affects communication, and how easy it is to ease sheets to get level performance.
This vid was just perfect and has helped me immensely. Big wip for the rib it is then with quality cable. Thank you. In cb terms we used to adjust swr by adjusting length of aerial I presume not needed with vhf. 👍👍👍
Here is my story about Punta Abreojos. In 1971 or 1972 I was returning single-handedly from La Paz in my 32’ Cutter “Ne’ Libre” when I ran up on one of the sandbars just south of Punta Abreojos at Laguna San Ignacio. The weather had been super nasty for more than a week and I was tacking dead against the wind going north. I was doing about 20 miles each time on each leg before tacking and gaining maybe very few miles. This of course was before easily available GPS, and my dead reckoning was off. (I guess that’s why they call it dead reckoning). I had seen a light the night before which I assumed was Punta Abreojos but was probably just light from some ranch further south. The following day I saw some mountains which I assumed were the mountains just north of Punta Abreojos. (They turned out to be mountains way inshore south of the point) Even though I thought I was many miles offshore I apparently was not very far offshore at all. I never saw the low shore, even on that clear sunny windswept day. In reality, I was still way south of Punta Abreojos in the bay. Again, assuming I was miles offshore, and I had plotted a course parallel to the shore north off Punta Abreojos. That night, I ran up on a very low shore, bumping over two sandbars. It was pitch dark and my spreader light showed me in nothing but white water. I had no idea where I was but immediately set out both anchors. The tide was coming up as the boat was pounding deeper into the sand. It was not too long before all Portholes blew and the cabin began to flood. I decided to stay with the boat, and with the breakers getting bigger and bigger decided to climb the mast with my ditch bag tied to me. I almost made it to the spreaders when I slid back down and badly ripped my leg on one of the cleats. It also ripped one of the pockets in which I had some important papers, such as my old Seaman’s logbook from my Merchant Marine days, but luckily not my passport. I decided then to get away from the boat, not knowing how big the waves were going to get. I tied a long line around myself and when I jumped into the water. I almost broke my ankles. The water was maybe a foot deep. Spray and surf crashing all around me, I made it through the white water that swept me of my feet several times even though I never was over knee-deep until I reached dry land. That parallel to the shore rip current was just incredible. I could barely stand without getting my legs swept out from under me. I felt a great amount of relief when I saw some brush a few feet further up after I reached the beach. The next morning I saw my beautiful boat had almost pounded 3 or 4 feet into the sand. At low tide, I could easily walk around the boat in knee-deep water. The boat itself was full of diesel-coated water. I dove for anything I could rescue. At some point, I got most of the water out and somehow got that little Volvo started, but the shaft was bent. So that was that. I set up camp in the dunes that day and (I think?) since I had swallowed some diesel, I passed kidney stones that night. The pain made me pass out. I woke up to a clear blue sky windswept morning. After passing some blood I recovered somewhat, and I spend the next few days resting and improving my camp. There was debris from my boat for miles swept up onto the beach. I was making water in a pit filled with the succulent green plant material that I then covered a clear plastic sheet from my Ditch Bag. I placed a rock in the center and a pan under it, which made the condensation drip nicely into the pan. I felt secure since I additionally still had several gallon bottles of water that I had salvaged. A few days later I flew my spinnaker off the masthead when I saw some shrimp boats with their outriggers way offshore. Actually, I was quite content and comfortable as I had stopped passing blood, until several days later when they came to investigate. They send a party on a skiff and tried to get me back through the current and waves to get me aboard the shrimper. That is when I managed to step on a stingray walking in the surf, which promptly used its barb to hit me right above my little toe on my right foot. There was a black spot the size of a nickel on my foot for at least the next ten years. The attempt to return to the shrimper failed. We simply could not get through the rip current The pain was from the sting was excruciating but of course nothing like the pain of passing the kidney stone which was still throwing me off. It also did not help, that even though they did not know about me passing kidney stones, they kept asking me if my kidney area was hurting. There apparently is a type of stingray that is fatally poisonous and kidney failure is a symptom. Thankfully that was not the case, and to my surprise, I could quickly alleviate all pain by putting my feet next to the fire that they had built. In light of not being able to return to the boat that night, we all huddled around the fire. I was somewhat entertained by how these grown men were freaked out by the howling of Coyotes. It was very clear the next day that they wanted me off that beach so they could get my crap, especially my 12 Gauge. But I did not hold that against them. Anyway long story short, after a lot of back and forth with the Shrimp Boat owners in Mazatlán, Mexico City, the US consulate and the Coast Guard in San Diego who I later found out was busy flying a retired Admiral with a broken leg back from Cabo San Lucas in a Helicopter that I actually saw flying directly over me, but could not be bothered to stop off midway. I actually thought for a minute that the chopper was for me. Later that day, I was transferred to a motor yacht that was going south whose owner was an LAPD police captain and a real Jerk. He apparently was not amused for having to take a diesel-covered castaway onboard and even told me that he had been highly inconvenienced. But he had no problem putting me to work trying to fix his 40KW generator when he found out that I was a trained electrical machine builder. I was flat on my back in his engine room when his wife finally took pity on me and handed me a sandwich. I was just too happy to inform him that the generator was toast. Anyway, he dumped me and my sail bag full of crap off unceremoniously in Magdalena Bay, from which I made my way back to La Paz and the States. The News reports and TV stations had me and my whole family drowned, but by the time I got back that was old news and nobody bothered to set the record straight. That trip was to be a shakedown cruise, and I guess it did shake me out. Anyway… I knew even before all that, that my navigation skills were crap, but I never had a problem keeping a boat seaworthy unless I crash it onshore. I wanted to stay connected to the sea and I left a very successful real-estate career temporarily and decided to build four “Most Dangerous Catch” type Steel Fishing Boats, all of them still plowing the Bering Sea. I am proud of that. I would build Steel boats to this day, but I got shut down by 20% interest rates in 1982 and there was not a boatbuilding contract to be had. I played for a while with the idea of building steel cruising boats like some outfit in Canada was doing, but my new wife had enough of all those crazy ideas and strapped me back into the real estate harness. I paid my bills, sold my crane and everything else I could, let 20 people go, and threw a hundred thousand dollars worth of jigs and templates in the thrash. Broke my heart! During that time I owned a 45’ Sea Wolf Ketch in Oxnard and sailed the Channel Islands. That kept me sane, even though my wife would argue that. So… real life interfered, and now it’s too late for me. I spend my days watching everything that sails the sea, and dream of what could have been. Anyway, I follow everything you publish closely and I have nothing but respect and admiration for you both. I am amazed at your skills and common sense. All the best!
@@Clarks-Adventure It took the shine off my adventuring for a while. Luckily I had insurance. My agent got really pissed at me. I guess he had planned not to ever have a claim.
Times Microwave LMR is the best coax around. The -DB version has extra waterproofing in the shield. Comes in a range of sizes / stiffnesses. LMR-400 is fairly thick and stiff, but the smaller sizes aren't a lot lossier if you need more flexibility. Use the thickest stuff that will work for you. Soldering is more reliable long-term, but those connectors can be tricky if you're not practiced with soldering. Agree on minimizing connections unless you really need them, but if you know you'll need them it might be better to add them in at the beginning (maybe borrow someone or try try again) when you can test and repair more easily than some random later moment when you can't easily get spare parts. Getting the connectors on right is key, so (for me at least) it's worth the extra hassle up front. It's always the connectors, and then sometimes it's the cable.
Great comment, I wish I could have fitted this up my mast but had to go with LMR 240. People also make the mistake of positioning the radio too far from the mast through-hole and having the cable longer than needed.
That was incredible. This may not be in your wheelhouse, but here I go anyway: I'm getting ready to install a VHF package on my 22' bay boat(power boat). I'm mostly in shore, however, I will make about 3 trips/year near offshore for snapper in the Gulf of Mexico. The farthest I would be is 30 miles offshore. Unfortunately, my boat does not have a T-top. I will be mounting my antenna on top of the console rail. The antenna tip would only be about 10' in height off of the water. Here's the equipment that I have chosen: Standard Horizon GX 1850, paired with Shakespeare 6400 Phase III antenna(4'). This would be integrated into my Garmin 942xs via NMEA2K. I need an antenna that is removable for the 95% of my inshore fishing. That's why I chose this setup. Do you have any other advise? Thanks!
Not really besides good wire. 30 mi with that antenna height might not be reliable always but if the fish are out there , there will be other fishermen that can hear you and help or relay.
@@Clarks-Adventure Yes, plenty of other fisherman and manned rigs with vhf comm. If I'm using less than 10' coaxial cable, would you still recommend RG 213? Also,(dumb question) is UHF coaxial the same as VHF? I can get 10' of RG213 U (50 ohm) for pretty good price.. Thanks so much!
It's all about to 50 ohms. Short is less loss. But it's up to you. Read the description. There is an even better cable there that is cheaper last I looked
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The stories take time ...and while initially seem like unnecessary, are in fact reminders that some items on the boat are critical for survival, if not your own, someone else...there is nothing more depressing than to be aware of a distress situation and the feeling of helplessness if you are not able to help...while being able to help makes for a better life and my belief that good Karma will be returned many times more than expected, so thank you Clark for the stories, they fill out the purpose of a life well lived...congrats!
Really good information clearly told. In the late 70’s and early 80’s our fishing club used CB radios in addition to our VHF radios on our skiffs. One of my friends blew an outdrive about a mile east of Bimini. He tried to call for help on his CB and go a response from someone who said where’s Bimini. My friend said it’s 55 miles east of Miami. The other person said he was just outside of Knoxville, TN and could not help. My friend said his 21’ skiff back to Florida using his Bimini top as a sail.
Full disclosure: I was trained in the Navy to repair comm equipment (though not to OPERATE it ;-) , I hold a Extra Class Amateur Radio license and have operated VHF for most of the time I’ve been a ham (since 1993).
Kudos on a great video, especially for the less electronics-technically inclined sailor.
Would really enjoy a video on your ham gear & setup, experiences with it, if you use Pactor for email while at sea (Winlink or Seamail?), etc.
General and, hopefully, kibbitzing comments:
1. DC power connection to radio - clean, solid connections through properly sized wire is an absolute imperative. Recommend using a wire voltage drop table to properly size the wire between the battery and the radio to ensure that the radio gets 12 volts and above. Use the current that the radio is spec’d to draw on TRANSMIT. Radios tend to get very cranky when the supply voltage drops below 12Vdc.
Note re supply power: As marine VHF radios us FM modulation, for a given power setting modulation (one’s voice into the microphone) has no effect on output RF power. Simply keying the radio is enough to measure the voltage at the radio dc power terminals/connections
2. Coax: Agree 100%: RG-58 SUCKS for VHF. Loss over a short length ( a few feet isn’t enough to lose any sleep over, but from the nav station to the antenna, LMR-400 ULTAFLX (Times Microwave) is an excellent choice. Recommend the ULTRAFLX over standard LMR-400 as the former has a stranded center conductor to give the cable flexibility vs, the solid center conductor of the latter that makes for some pretty stiff cable. For some reason, West Marine doesn’t offer LMR-400 ULTRAFLX but it is readily available from amateur radio equipment suppliers.
3. RF connections: ESPECIALLY in salt water environments, use self-fusing rubber electrical tape (e.g., Scotch Tape 70 or 3Mself-amalgamating tape) to wrap the connection from the connector toward and down the cable. Add a second wrap of electrical tape over the first to protect it from UV and salt-air. If wrapping a PL259-SO239 barrel-PL259, start several inches from one of the PL259.
4. RF cable water intrusion from experience (30 min point in the video): for my money where my life might depend on my radio, if any water invades coax, esp where one end of the cable is up in the air, I would not depend on it. I strongly recommend replacing the entire length. Compared to the cost of lots of boater stuff, at about $2.30/ft, replacing a length is cheap insurance.
5. Antenna height: height = range. Open air (no obstructions) NOMINAL range in miles can be calculated as 1.42 x square root H1 + H2 where H is the heights of the station antennas in feet. >However
I served in the australian navy as a comms operator and found this explanation and advice excellent for general sailors. by the way for cable connections we covered them in impregnated cotton wrap which would last for years preventing water penetration. very difficult to remove though.
Nice one Clark! Very informative. Love you guys! One thing I would have touched on and is generally overlooked is the twisting/shielding and routing of the power wires. A large percentage of you will say it doesn't matter because its DC, however I would have to disagree based on experience. Remember that day when you were so proud of your new car stereo install and it sounded so good ….until you started your car. There was a terrible whine that was proportional to the rpm of the engine...You had to fix this using an EMI filter. I am a design engineer in aerospace and defense (specifically designing automated test systems for electronic..."things that are critical to your survival"). Collective data would support twisting of the power wires as the default go-to if cost and weight do not prohibit its use. When in doubt twist them and shield them. Two reasons....1. Reduced susceptibility to noise from other magnetic fields. 2. Reduced magnetic radiation from loads that are switching. Additionally, the routing of these wires is even more critical. Its generally a bad idea to run power wires to your radio in parallel with wires going to your bilge pumps, transducers, stereo speaker wires, shore power lines, etc. I'm guessing there is a filter circuit on the power input side of a quality radio, but to cut costs in a Chinese radio I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't exist at all. Scenario: Your sinking and the bilge pumps are now running full bore, and an inductive interference is now coupled to your radio when your calling for Mayday. All they hear at the other end is a whining bilge pump with some guy garbled underneath all the noise. Greetings from Clearwater!
Thank you for the very informative comment.😊Greetings from SV Chasing Summer St. Pete Beach
Excellent coverage of a much misunderstood topic. Also coax looses more power if it gets deformed, pinched, flattened, bent too tight, looped excessively. Technical stuff: Some antennas work with a ground plane like the 3db quarter wave whip. Their pattern suffers without a good ground plane, which is another piece of the system not always addressed on boats. Some antennas work without a ground plane, like the 6db design you prefer. For people who want deeper understanding, buy the ARRL Antenna handbook as a place to start.
ground plane was something I was wondering about (coming from AM broadcast back ground). I have a small boat with a hand made antenna about 3 foot dipole and a bigger boat with an 8 foot antenna. The 3 foot radio is grounded through the motor, just because it is electric start. The 8 foot is not because there is no electrical connection to the motor and the hull is glass. The small antenna seems to receive better (weather channels) than the 8 foot (which is also higher up). But from what you have just said, the 8 foot would be a dipole and should not need a ground plane... so cable or antenna I guess (the radio is new the cable and antenna are old).
Yeah, it's always the wire.
If you decide to replace it read the video description. There is a better (and cheaper) cable I found after filming.
@@lenwhatever4187 8' sounds a little long to be a dipole in that frequency range. A standard center-fed dipole will be a half-wavelength. 234 divided by the frequency x 12= 1/4 wave in inches. Longer is NOT better.
@@marcialsantiago8383 Thats true, though multiples of 1/4 wave do work as in the rhombus . On the other hand, making an antenna that requires a ground plane does not make sense (plastic boats don't make very good ground planes). The size of my DIY one was short (1 meter-ish - 1/2 wave) because of that. But 8 foot antennas are a thing. They are also supposed to have a higher gain yet still be omni. So possibly a set of stacked dipoles similar to those used in commercial FM/TV antennas (I can't remember the spacing required off hand). In any case, grounding should not be required because an 8 foot whip would suffer from the same effect. A 5/8 element with a matching coil, such as used for mobile 2meter using the car roof for ground plane, with a second similar set turned upside down to act as return works out to around 8 ft as well.... And is simpler than stacked dipole.
It would be interesting to know what is actually used.
@@lenwhatever4187 reflectors can be made. I know Firestick actually produces a base station mount that has reflectors on it.
Personally, if the mast is non-conductive,I'd go with a slim jim.
But then again, I have the option of building my own.
I live 300 miles from the nearest ocean and haven't been on a boat in probably 26 years, but I still found this interesting as a radio nerd.
Thank you for this video. I was kicking around the idea of getting a marine radio and didn't know which antenna would be the best, so I came here and I am glad I did! Very informative! I ended up getting a Tram with 6 db gain.
Great video, I am a ham and the info in this video is spot on. Good equipment, good connections, water,proofing to keep corrosion down. Understanding db, antenna placement. Good stuff for the layman to adhere to.
Love your stories!
As a beginner sailor, I started to get some nice stories to tell too, until now, mainly what goes wrong.
I'll check my VHF cables and antenna, thanx so much for sharing your expertise.
Love the tech talk and story sandwich. The stories brought a lot of life to something that might have, otherwise, been a little more difficult to see the applicability behind.
Very good. Missing is at least a mention of installing a dedicated cheap GPS antenna powered by the same circuit, a $30 part, that when combined with obtaining and programming an MMSI number gives your vhf radio the ability in the USA to send your gps location to authorized after pressing distress button. So many people fail to set this up, mentioning the importance in your video would contribute to awareness. The coast guard can better respond when they are convinced you know exactly where you are, and it helps novice boaters better succeed with the radio when the skipper is incapacitated. In addition products like the MOB1 can be setup to work with your vhf radio to alert crew if you fall out of boat. See if you can edit and include early on when you describe the install process involves antenna and power wire. Dan, marine electronics writer, practical sailor magazine.
Excellent advice Clark. The last boat that owned me was a 34' Tolly. Icom VHF, 10 gage power wire, with 6 4700 mfd 35 volt caps parallel at the entry point. Shakespeare 1/2 wave 17' antenna, RG8X coax, soldered PL239's, fold down mount like yours. 60 mile range most days.
Good info. Did you have to change/join the RG8X cable from the factory supplied RG58 cable?
Good job. One thing when running coax is to avoid very sharp bends. If your bend is too sharp the inner wire can migrate through the insulation and touch the outer wire over time causing a dead short. Also worth mentioning that super cheap tv coax is 75 ohm and should be avoided. SWR meters really come into their own when tuning an antenna.
EXCELLENT job done on the topic . As a technician in the Royal Australian Navy and now as a Ham radio trainer I fully agree with everything covered here. Cheers
Some pointers: I’d recommend going to 1/2” RF cable instead, it has lower loss, and has a solid corrugated copper shield, which means a hole in the outer sheath won’t wick water into the cable. You’ll need to add two more connectors and move to a thinner cable at both ends, but if you use N-type connectors the loss in the connectors will be less than the loss of the RG-213. There’s also other options that are a bit more flexible, but they are a lot more expensive. For connectors, I recommend first taping the joint with self-vulcanizing tape (silicone if you can find it), and then taping over it with 3M Super 88 electrical tape (this is the stuff you want, there’s nothing like it), this is how we do radio systems for critical infrastructure.
Scotch 33+ would also be a very good choice... It remains flexible even in cold temperatures. Very good stuff if you want to seal an RF connection.
One of the more expensive options is LMR-400, probably around $2/ft, but loss is 1.5dB/100ft at VHF. Add N-connectors and you are probably going to get close to 20W at the antenna feed instead of the 15W from 213. Maybe not worth pulling out the 213, but likely noticeable if you are on open water and every bit of distance matters.
Yes I talk about this in the description
Clark I agree LMR400UF (ultra flexible) has a solid inner and double screen jacket. Designed for outdoor use and is a good seal to water ingress, attenuation at 150MHz is 1.5dB. I also agree that N-Type connectors are the best to use, so the antenna (commercial type) usually come with a N-Type female on it, just have to replace the bulkhead fitting on the radio to N-Type female. The tape I have used for the last 40 years has been Scotch23 self vulcanising tape a good UV and waterproofing tape for antenna/feeder cable connections. Used it inland and on tugs and dredgers I worked on.
@@glennwillems9924 Yeah, we've now switched to that, as Super 88 seems to have been discontinued in Europe. It's not quite as good but less messy (Super 88 leaves a black residue).
Love this Clark! Full on geek out and brilliant stories too. Thanks for sharing. Good reminder that sometimes having the best gear is about being able to help in general, not just whatever your own use case might be.
Clark, you and Emily are both good teachers and I love hearing your stories. 😇🤩
Great video! I've been refitting an old Hughes 38 and the radios were installed with soldered alligator clips! So I've been trying to figure how to install a good radio set up. This really helped!
This is one of the best, most informative, and well presented videos I’ve ever seen! Many thanks for sharing your experience, knowledge, and wisdom!
Thanks Laura,
You might like our other videos as well. Might I suggest our "how refrigeration works" video.
th-cam.com/video/jTKT3w-6Bl0/w-d-xo.html
You guys simply rock! I love all the actual break down of the how tos. Whether it’s Clark doing a vid like this, or Emily doing the cooking and canning food prep, this is an absolute gem of a channel!
EXCELLENT video! I've been a Ham radio operator since 1978 or so (and have been using radio even longer), and I used to sail quite a bit, plus I spent six years in the US Navy working on RDF systems at sea. You covered all the good points in a way that anybody should be able to understand, whether they had any experience or training in the field or not. Your stories are on point and not too long; vital to the topic! The only triviality I can think of is the 3dB vs 6dB graphics: I know this is anal and probably more trouble than it's really worth, but I've tried to train people in a variety of situations...I think many people would be caught by the 2D illustration. I'm sure a 3D toroid image, especially if it moved with the boat, would have gone into people's brains like gangbusters. Perhaps pointing out that the illustrations represented a "doughnut shape" would have helped.
Perhaps a bit more on weatherproofing those cables? I used ScotchKote, I think it was called, after packing the fittings with silicon grease (that's what dielectric grease normally is; other greases--even petroleum jelly--will degrade insulation materials), and then wrapping the whole fitting in self-vulcanized tape (several types available at hardware stores, in the electrical or even plumbing sections), and finally covering with a good abrasion-resistant tape and smearing the whole mess with goo such as EPDM or even outdoor silicon window caulk. Yes, it's money, but after spending so much on a cable, I want that cable to last.
I'm glad I stumbled onto this video, even though you're not actually "building" a radio itself, but rather building a radio system. Liked and subscribed!
Good advice!
What is being a HAM operator got to do with it? Because your a HAM op you think you rule the airwaves? You think you have a staus above and beyond? Being a HAM operator, stick to your HAM bands. Marine, is NOT HAM.
@@BitsofSkin Calm down. When you are ready to get your HAM ticket there will be plenty of resources to help you🤣
@@mikejohns3104 See this is the point i'm making..
You assume i dont have my HAM licence, you think your one of a kind lol
The thing is, i have my HAM licence, Mike.
I just dont like when fellow HAMs think they own the whole spectrum. It gives us a bad name.
@@BitsofSkin You don't know what I am thinking. I don't care of you are a ham or not. You have not made a point. Your initial comment didn't even make any sense. We are not the same. Good luck sad ham.
Hey Clark, thanks for this info. I’m not a boater (yet), but I’m finding our all I can before we take the leap into boating. You and Emily are interesting and fun, but mostly informative. So thanks from Southern UK in 2022.
Awesome video, Clark! I for one would like to put my vote in for the video to track down where the power drains are!
Thanks Matthew.
Nice video. I used a really good cable to replace my coax up the mast and did all the right stuff. It was a new antenna too. Struggled with it all th way down to El Salvador. Range was like 3 miles. I had even replaced connectors and soldered them at the bottom of the mast, even used gold plated connectors. I used a swr meter on it and it always pointed me too the mast base connection. I finally stripped it back, cut off the connects, and soldered the core leads together. Liquid electrical taped it, electrical taped it, amalgamated taped it heat shrieked it, and took the shielding braid and soldered and sealed all that and sealed the whole thing. My tested range was 28 miles with the 3db antenna. We were good with that.
22 years later I added an AIS and auto splitter and our range went down considerably, and the AIS especially. Turns out AIS frequencies are just above marine VHF and we were getting a lot of reflection. I bought a 4db combo vhf AIS antenna and all my problems went away. Interestingly enough my range increased to about 60 miles now confirmed by San Diego Coast Guard. That higher db antenna helped and I think the antenna switch has a booster built in.
Having SWR properly adjusted reduce the heat on your power transistors in your radio. SWR is really important.
Regarding coaxial cables, you also get them UV treated (and people need to know to NOT get the non UV protected ones). Personally I like to use High gain metal antennas, they've lasted a long time for me. Also a shorter whip (black thin ones) are good as a backup mounted away from the mast in case of demasting. Obviously not as good as an antenna in the mast, but in an emergency you would like to have all the bells and whistles.
Having satellite is of course a choice, but I am not doing a crossing without it.
Thank you so much for the video and have a great day! 😊
Ham radio guy here. Great job and video. The one point I would also stress is that the loss in the coax and the gain of the antenna BOTH affect your ability to RECEIVE just as much as it does on transmitting. If your Effective Radiated Power is one fourth due to the small antenna and coax, you receive one fourth as much signal as well. I tell the new ham operators that want to get a 65 or 70 watt mobile (we are allowed RIDICULOUS power...) to put the extra dollars into the antenna. (We use dual band VHF/UHF antennas, there are many types from 17" to over 5', more IS MORE. Base dual band antennas go to 17')
I think I do say that but I guess I didn't hammer it home as I've gotten a lot of comments about this.
I don't actually write my videos. I just turn in the camera and start talking. Then Emily cuts out the stuff that didn't work. I miss stuff sometimes. And this one went really long.
I think I hit the receive issue harder when I did a little talk about db but that didn't make the final cut.
Thanks
Clark. KD7ENJ
Excellent video. One other option for smaller center console boats is Digital Antenna’s 4' VHF it has 4.5dB gain. The 800 Series doesn't come with cable so you can use a high quality RG-213.
Thank you for all this good information. We bought a new (to us) boat that the radio appeared to work to the surveyor when the mast was down and in a barn. But in sailing her, we could hear on the radio but not transmit. I thought I would have to replace the radio, but after listening to this I will now first check the antenna wire. Thank you!
Seriously, this channel really differentiates. You really pack a punch by making really intrinsic knowledge easily understood and accessible. The two of you are amazing. Keep up the good work!!!
GREAT ADVICE, thank you! I just found your channel because TH-cam recommended your boat electrics playlist when I ordered a new set of buses on Amazon (my $200 eBay sailboat has a short somewhere). Weird times we live in, but anyway, it was really helpful and I shared it with my brother, who lives in the Keys, and is always helping friends troubleshoot their 12v systems. He said it’s an awesome playlist and has favorited your channel to pass on to others. THANK YOU!
Thanks,
Especially for sharing
On my dad's boat, we had the VHF on a double throw switch, with the second connection going to a 5 amp-hour sealed lead acid battery. It was charged by a 5 watt solar panel trickle charger. It was nice knowing that we had a completely independent electrical system for emergencies. Fortunately we never needed to use it.
Good idea
As I'm remembering from my Navy Electronics Technician "A" School (40+ years ago), you want to try and match your cable length to a multiple of the WAVELENGTH of your transmitting/receiving frequencies as part of the tuning process. Of course the antenna also needs to be tuned to that band as well. Trimming the cable to some multiple of 6 feet would give you the lowest SWR (over the entire band) for any given cable, assuming the connectors are good/tight and the antenna is properly tuned. Note: You can also trim to the half-wave if you're concerned about the loss over 3 feet of cable.
Very informative, I agree with some of the other posters about using heliax instead of coaxial cable _IF_ you have a straight run or only gentle bends to minimize losses. Not all that useful in a marine environment except possibly for the run up the mast.
Love this. The little things make all the difference. Most people don't worry about the little things until it is too late. You want your safety equipment available and ready before the emergency happens!
Looove your story Clarck, and information your sharing. Simply fantastic. Appreciate you. Much love from Ventura Ca...
You guys are amazing! I appreciate and value the info you guys contribute to the cruising life. This was a great episode and the stories were the icing!
100% buy the 8' antennae! He's right. I cannot believe the reception I get now compared to the shorty on a 21 footer (Shakespeare too, IMO). Appreciate your videos, big help!
Thanks for reporting back, Mike
Please consider sharing this video around if you think it would help people.
I shared this in an online discussion, I can't remember where, but it was appreciated.
Thanks Daniel. I really appreciate that
Once again the tutorials are great. I have some knowledge of this through HAM and CB radios on land but it's nice to know how to set up the VHF for offshore use! I just bought my first sailboat and am beginning the learning process in freshwater here in my home state of South Carolina. I dream of doing what you guys are doing when I retire. Keep the videos going, great job and I appreciate it.
Thanks
I love this. Rocket surgery lol 😂 but covering why and how it works. Understanding makes all the difference in my opinion. Thanks Clark ☺️
Thank you, very informative, going to upgrade my coax cable and cut to length after seeing that chart with the gains. Yes, I installed the free cable wire (cheap stuff) that came with the antenna and wound all the extra cable up.
Thanks,. Take a look at the description. I found a better and cheaper wire that I listed there. I think there might be a link to it in our Amazon store.
@@Clarks-Adventure Will do, thanks again. I am in the process of restoring a Catalina 25, tall rig, swing keel, traditional, to learn to sail on and currently have a Carver 330 Mariner motor yacht. So both are getting the upgrades on that cable. Safe sailing you two.
Your help is saving lives. You are amazing. You helped me. Thank you.
Great video! Clark, I am an amateur radio operator (KF0BPN) and the principles you talk about are the most crucial.
1) Nominal voltage to the radio.
2) Use bigger DC wire than what is recommended or as big of gauge (AWG) as you can make work.
3) Get the antenna as high as possible and in the clear. Height is might.
4) Buy quality feedline (coax cable). Absolutely spend more money here because this is what will suck your power out of the transceiver.
a. If you really want to geek out, check out Times Microwave cable loss calculator.
Additional thoughts:
1) Use a Type N connector at the antenna mount. Add Coax moisture proof sealing tape as extra insurance.
a. Advantages: slightly less loss than PL-259 and are more watertight.
2) Coax moisture proof sealing tape on the PL-259 connector at the transceiver.
One correction about your reference to DB. DB by itself doesn’t mean anything. It needs to be in relation to a reference antenna. Normally there are two references used: isotropic radiator (dBi) or standard dipole (dBd).
Found your channel while doing some Marine HF radio research. Love the stories! Keep it up. Thank you, sir.
Glad you liked the video
Clark
KD7ENJ
I LOVE THE STORIES!!! Also great info on the inner workings of the radio system, much appreciated!!
Thanks! I will be checking out the radio installation after I buy our first sailboat in the coming year, and now I know what to plan for!
Good video. I listened because I'm installing a radio for the first time. But, I have to say... The stories were my favorite part! Thank you for the video.
Hope you enjoy our other videos and choose to subscribe.
The lightning video has stories as well
Who knew? You don't know what you don't know. Thanks AGAIN for a very good presentation on some very important kit.
What luck to come across your very informative video. I just bought a used Sailboat with mares tail wiring system, if you can use word system.
As a Pilot I want things working RIGHT.
Thank you for a great presentation. I am passing it on.
Love the practical advice. Youve been along side me on my journey ...thanks clarke.
Ditto - great background & advice - communication is the key, here, over there & at sea …
Your efforts are much appreciated.
Great video Clark. I always enjoy the technical part of the videos, but I think we all learn so much from your stories and even (if any) mistakes, so please continue to give us stories. One thing, on checking for voltage drop on the circuit feeding the radio while it's on and transmitting, if the spade connectors are aren't easy to access with the voltmeter, for some it might be helpful to make a temporary "T" splice to plug in and allow access with the meter leads. Cheers
Hi Clark ,great vid on explaining how to get the best out of a marine vhf ,thank you..to answer your request ..often on FB discussions lead to refrigeration problems, battery ,aircon etc and when i decide to comment and add my 10 cents worth ,I often refer people to your channel because of your interesting detailed way of explaining the how too and why it works on your subjects you discussed . .thanks again to you and Emily for a great channel
Appreciate that Louis
great information ℹ️ , love 💕 the story. Watching your videos from Kentucky “The Bluegrass State “. USA 🇺🇸
Another great video - thanks Clark! Being a retired commo guy in the military I appreciated your simple explanations
Thanks Tony
VHF theoretical range. 1.23 x the square root of your mast height above the water's surface in feet. Versus 1.18 for line of sight. So, yup, up the mast she goes! Also, some thought given for grounding of some sort for lightning strike:) ie the outside of the pl-259 to the mast. Great video!
Great video .. I would add good quality connectors.. with as you said taking care to attach the connectors right
The double female your talking about is a PL-258 just treaded at each end with no tread in the middle. A barrel connector you can get at different lengths and is treaded the whole length which you can mount as a feed through with a nut on each side of per say a wall or what ever..Also never ever coil the coax up it will cause inductance and alot of weird stuff. Just leave aliilte extra (1.5 to 2 ft) near your antenna and radio incase you need to change out the PL-259. I use a Tram 3db antenna with about 15ft of RG -58 coax mounted on the aluminum awning which is the highest point on my 20ft Sun tracker fishing barge pontoon boat. Also I strongly suggest to check the SWR of your antenna. If the coax or antenna is bad, it could very well destroy your radio with extended use of the radio
Mike N2JVE
Niverville, N.Y.
Better off with type N connectors. the PL-259 will always leak water, and the losses through a saltwater-soaked pl-259 are nearly 100% at VHF. N connectors are easy, sealed against moisture, not that expensive.
Oh yes N connector is so much better i agree 100% @@Doonit_hard_way_since_65
Fantastic, especially the table of comparison of different wires and antennae, thanks!
Read the description. I found a new wire after filming
@@Clarks-Adventure thanks! the descriptio mentions lme400 cable, but im finding only lmr400 in all the places - typo?
I think I made a typo. Hate my cell phone keyboard I'll fix it.
@@Clarks-Adventure ok, no worries, sometimes hard to know if its a US thing or somesuch... that cable seems super, fairly inexpensive, now you have me pondering a complete overhaul! What do you make of antenna cable splitters for radio reception with the same antenna... does that impact the signal, aside from obviously more connections with the box in the middle?
Don't use them.
Valuable content. Thanks for sharing. You’re one of the first engineers I heard that doesn’t talk like an engineer.
@Jack O'Bean so you think he’s beneath you but you’re spending your time here…..twit
Hello I like Puerto peñasco, playa kino, I like too getting a boat but I am terrified of hitting rocks. Nice video thanks for helping people. Saludos
It would be pretty dope to have a story series
Fantastic advice. I wish I'd replaced my cable while my mast was down - live and learn. Thanks.
It's actually rather easy to replace cable in a standing mast
Cut the connectors off and see the cables together with needle and string. Add one layer of tape and pull the new cable through with the old
I spray the new with dry silicone lube on the way in at the top of the mast.
Two person job but really easy.
congratulations indeed! a very informative video, good mix of information and storytelling IMO.
I would like to mention the possibilities of using a cheap SO239 adapter to allow the use of a removeable antenna handheld with your main antenna system, for the sake of extra reliability, and yes, a rather short lenght, but still adequate to the boat size, of the smallish cheaper cable with pre-soldered and properly preserved terminals and one of the newer "portable deployable" VHF antennas intended for hiking with handheld radios - maybe in vac bags - can be very useful for those not "attuned" to fashion DIY antennas.
yes, radios and even good antennas eventually fail, cables get corroded, and one J pole field antenna hoisted at some 5 meters of coax, even from a handheld, should give an edge until the main system is back in order,
for those DIY inclined, if I may, there are cable collinear and J pole antennas projects over the internet and even a pair of full wavelenght triangular loops at 90 degrees from each other, fashioned from ordinary electric wires and spliced to the thin coaxial may be useful, if not critical, back-up. of course, depending on untested solutions is not safe - I am talking secondary and tertiary options. not everyone is "attuned" to antennae building, and even those absolutely perfectly tested, reliable projects should be considered BKP for approved, 1st rate marine commercial products - as required by insurance and laws.
Shared on patreon with The Prepared Mind. Shared because great info and stories of why you need to be prepared. If you think about a boat it's gotta have everything for life. So water, food, shelter, first aid/medications, means of defense, and a plan.
Thank you Eli.
We did a prep video back at the start of covid. Did you see it? th-cam.com/video/AEISxhk43o0/w-d-xo.html
Stumbled on to your channel after watching a few new episodes from Jeff Cote @ Pacific Yachting Systems. This is an excellent description about the value (and workings) of a marine VHF radio/antenna. I know that you had to ‘gloss’ over the example of VD (voltage drop) but I think it’s a VERY important issue that not many understand (including a lot of electricians!)
I’m looking forward to any more of your videos on the electrical perils that faced in the marina atmosphere.
I’m a (now retired) 2nd generation electrician having worked in commercial/industrial/marine installations, then going on to be a trades training instructor for electrical apprentices, to finally a provincial government Electrical Safety Officer (inspector) and also a level 3 fire/accident investigator. My ‘new’ self employed career is in small boat wiring repairs/alterations/installations and the things I see on some of these boats drive me CRAZY at times, some of it is bad right from the mfg, which is how I got ‘sucked’ into the world of ‘bad’ small boat wiring after buying my own new 22’ power boat retirement present! I’m also in the process now of getting my ABYC certification, which will really only be for my own satisfaction. Keep providing the information, your explanations and teaching style are great!
Thanks.
You might like this. I looked into the refrigeration on a new French boat last year. Owner complained it was cutting out at night. The refrigerator was getting like 11volts even though the solar was putting out like 14v at the batteries. Turned out that not only was the fridge connected to the panel with tiny wire. The panel was connected to batteries through a battery selector switch for positive, one for the negative side as well, two different resistant shunts, fuses, a disconnect of some kind. All in all there must have been 15 terminals in that part of the circuit. And not exactly huge wire. Huge loss just getting to the panel.
All installed pretty so I guess it was ok in French eyes.
@@Clarks-Adventure Let me guess, it was either a Beneteau, Jeanneau or Lagoon? From many other videos I've seen, the Beneteau Group as a whole had some pretty shoddy QC several years ago. Although my cousins had a 1970's era Beneteau 27 that had zero problems.
When comparing antennas also be aware that they are rated as either dBi or dBd - dBd is already 2.15 dBi
Your long contacts are due to tropospheric ducting - there will be a huge dead spot between the skip jumps
Ducting is amazing you can make 2000km+ contacts on VHF - obviously much more common on the 2m amateur band as they spend lots of time actually trying to make the contacts.
The 8' antennas are great as they are a proper 1/2 wave dipole so are not relying on a variable quality (if any) ground plane - you might be interested in the DIY dipole that's easy to make & rig especially in those time where you have to take your mast-top one down
Radio propagation is a fascinating thing ...
73! :)
Marine VHF frequencies around 156.xx versus 2 Meter at 144 to 148, are better for long range work in theory than the 2 Meter band, of course 2 Meter radios CAN have Single Side Band which is better than FM for long distance work. And 2 Meter radios can have greater power.
I do marine electronics work for a living. Everything you said was totally on point.
good explanation off yout old skool radio lessen over a marine VHF, like that .
Thanks SO much to both of you for giving us all these great tips and info! We are gathering and keeping them all for future installations and ventures..We are Alberta ranchers with a dream..building our own blue water 32 foot sailboat, in our shop, alongside our farm equipment.. We spend all our "free time" LOL( . when the cow herds and crops don't need our imminent attention ..like between midnight and 5 AM!!) ..on our boat. SV FORTUNE FOUND...We love her already and hope to splash her on the west coast of Canada in 2023. And then join you cruisers in some warmer climes!!
You two are helping us to do it RIGHT from the START!! SO PLEASE BE AS DETAILED AS YOU CAN.. NEVER APOLOGIZE FOR THAT! We gobble this stuff up.. Cheers from Mac and Maggie.
Grew up on and around dairy farms myself. Sailing is less work!
Always nuggets of great information with you two. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks. Enjoyed your video. I’m having issues with a factory installed VHF (2019) and your video has given me plenty to think about. I already use a very common Australian VHF marine antenna (8 ft , 3db, GME brand). One thing I’ve noticed with the Shakespeare antenna is that the supplied cable is RG58 and hard wired into the base. If you were to upgrade to the 213 cable you would have to “join” it to the supplied cable which is a shame. Mind you, I’m intending to install the radio no more than 3ft from the antenna under my hard top so that length of RG58 cable is not likely to present huge losses.
The other downside to the hard wired antennas is the fact that you can’t unscrew them from the mount easily - upside is there is one less connection point at the mount - swings and roundabouts!
If your antenna run is just 3 feet I wouldn't sweat the cable much. You'd lose more from the coupling
Hello Emily & Clark.. Ive been watching since you 1st got together but I seldom comment. First, THANK YOU for the very interesting content and your knowledge. (I have to chuckle that Emily is filming and quiet behind the camera). Sure appreciate that you both keep life simple and explain clearly. (I built a dink too..thanks Emily) I'm refitting my Tartan 37 and your videos are my guiding light. Fair winds.
Thanks
Good explanation and story telling. I really like your channel. Keep up the good work. Thanks and fair winds.
VHF is typically line of sight with the horizon at 21 miles, give or take antenna height. But, atmospherics also play a role. If we are at the peak of the sun cycle or other atmospherics, you can go exponentially further.
Even if you don’t want to get licensed as a ham, it would do you good to read a technician study guide to get a good understanding of how he works. If you want ssb, you’ll need a general or higher level study guide i
But still the bands are more open then in years past. Just not that many young people interested now days with the internet and so many other things to absorb the attention of the technically minded.
First , people try to power too many things straight to the battery, go from battery to a fuse box, with the right size wire, , then power the radio , with the right size wire , this also provides power for more accessories. thanks for the vid
A couple weeks ago I shared your how to use the radio video on a Facebook group for O'Day sailboats. Based on the comments there it looked like it was well received.
Thanks, we really appreciate that.
Good video.
I am right with you on power loss in DC supply lines. Also with radios.
Yes RG213 is an excellent choice for cable, though I would argue crimp connectors, with the proper tooling, may have an advantage over solder/screw cinch types in that the solder creates a possible point where metal fatigue can occur where the solder and copper junction end. I personally use N type crimp whenever possible. They come in stainless and have o rings built in to inhibit moisture. I still wrap them though.
I also have tried several methods to stabilize the cable inside the mast to eliminate wear and noise from the constant slapping against the inside of the mast.
I would be hesitant with dielectric grease inside the connectors. It is lossy at higher frequencies, not so much at VHF though. I used to install microwave systems over coax. We found SELF FUSING SILICON RUBBER TAPE such as Rescue Tape to be very effective at sealing the connectors outdoors exposed to weather.
I have had good experience with 5/8 wave antennas as they have a good horizontal pattern and are not excessively long and have about 4db of gain.
Love the stories! They are great teaching tools. Thanks!
I have terrible range on my radio, and I suspect I know why. I replaced the cable with Times Microwave LMR-400 Ultraflex cable, and replaced the 3db antenna with a new Metz 3db. I picked Metz because they got great reviews and claimed the Coast Guard uses them. The radio is a new B&G V60-B, and I have a Si-tex AIS transponder with built in splitter. I'm certain I could benefit from a good 6db antenna and will be changing that soon, but I suspect the AIS is probably the main culprit. And of course I'm still using the microscopic cable to go from the radio to the AIS that was with the AIS. I think my best plan is to run a second cable and use the 3db for a dedicated AIS antenna, and take the LMR-400 cable with a new 6db antenna straight to the radio.
Thanks for a great and informative video.
Great plan.
Your video is so right !! I'm on this business for your curiosity only check the reflectometer if you know all the length it will tell you where the cable is bend or if it is antenna or cable
Wish I had that gear.
Great advice, thanks! It's also not good to put hard bends in the coax cable, this will cause additional attenuation.
New camera?
This reminds me of my radio / radar / tube classes in engineering school back all those years ago. Had to make a field strength meter, tune antennas, all that kinda stuff. Haven't used it in 30+ years. Great vid as always1
No but we are always learning new ways to use it.
Good video! I am a Ham and have been Radio enthusiast for decades, This was a great explanation of some of the finer points of a good install, and why things like a good power source are important as well as the basics of low loss coax and a good antenna are the true keys to a good install. The comment about not spending a lot on the radio itself was dead on. 25 watts is the Max any of them can illegal put out as mandated by the FCC, my advice would be, pick the radio with the best heat sink at the best price! and try to provide a place for radio that is protected from direct sunlight and rain. ... nice job!
SWR meter - cheap and good to have in particular if you get a dummy load on top of it.
Put dummy load at antenna connection and you see if all is good to antenna - or you know that the problem is in the coaxial cable.
I,am ham radio in Qc north Montreal va2 and ve2 you make a good thing to help the cata family ,73 man I like your videoes ,I,am not a good thecnician ,but i can discute in french for most of the time but understand english , 73 again
Thanks,
Clark
KD7ENJ
Good video. Spot on with the stats. Been a ham since the 70's. We talk a couple hundred miles routinely on 2 meter VHF (same band as marine freq. And I do check into the MMSN (Maritime Mobile Service Net) on 20 meters.
I know how feel as you were telling the story. I was monitoring (14.300mhz) one night when there was a Mayday. Prior it was just general chat and weather. That net went from casual to all business in a drop of a hat. Net control was like Bill contact USCG, John see if there cargo ships in the area. Net reminded the ship have on floatation devices and got their GPS info. as I remember it, they were out of fuel and water and were out of range of his vhf radio.
AS you said, that's what amateur radio operators do.
❣️ Love your stories ❣️ and a huge thanks for your expertise on that topic again 😊 Perfect add on to Emily‘s great vid 😍
I like your tech wisdom! Thank you for sharing
Good to hear your (to me) sound reasoning and such, Gr8 Video!!!
Hi, I’m a ham radio operator and we have a saying: $1 for the transceiver, 10 for the antenna! The antenna cable is important as the frequency and length increase. For example, at identical length, power and cable, in HF (10 M) the loss will be "low" compared to VHF (even more in UHF). The loss increases with frequency. I do not share completely your analysis on the quality of the RTX. There are significant differences, some have better filters, protections, frequency stability, reception sensitivity, functions, etc.. And some are sometimes equipped with a DSP system, very useful on weak signals. Ok, it’s not vital but it’s important. If we consider VHF as a safety equipment, we should not skimp and choose the best at the best price. Have a nice day. Nice video and good info 👍
Thanks
An HF version of this video will be awesome. Particularly HF Antenna options on a boat.
Yes I could do one. My antenna and counterpoise work really great.
But I don't think many use hf anymore. We would only get a few hundreds of views. It's hard enough to get people to watch the electrical series.
Hope people keep sending links to friends.
@@Clarks-Adventure yes I totally get it. The electrical series will probably be a great reference edition. Probably keep getting more and more views over time as people. They are brilliant btw.
Thanks.
But my inner child wants views NOW
Really appreciate your wisdom and stories! This tracks to everything I know about RF. Don't focus on increasing power, focus on minimizing signal loss, eliminating noise and using as close as you can to a full-wave antenna (think the 8' is a half wave and 4' is 1/4 wave??). RF is cool stuff if you can grasp the basics.
FYI... you should be able to see where people are coming to your videos on the YT analytics.
Ham and retired FCC technical wonk here;
Great video. Some comments:
•72 ohm cable is used in the video industry and looks very similar. DON'T USE IT regardless of how little you may have to pay for it. It is labels as 72 ohm
•I suggest a second radio in the cockpit with a low antenna nearby independent of the mast antenna for short range regular use and a backup for the main radio. Height really matters so the range will be limited, but adequate for most uses for talking to boats or marinas you can see visually. Since the required cable to connect antenna to radio is a few few, cable loss is not very important so use any cable that has good physical qualities such as waterproof and sun resistance. Having an independent power source for this radio would be helpful but may be difficult in practice
•I disagree with the discussion around 23:00 about low gain/high gain antennas. I suggest only using low gain antennas on masts so in emergencies you don't have to worry about heel.
•VHF radio propagation is quirky and depends on thermal inversions. Sometimes in Chesapeake Bay we can suddenly hear boats from Long Island Sound. Don't be surprised. It happens intermittently
•If you are a ham, the 2m ham band is close to the VHF marine band. You can put in a spdt coax switch on the antenna and share it between you ham radio and marine radio
• As stated around 20:00, an SWR meter is a good check on the cable system and antenna are working well. Considering borrowing one or asking a radio tech to do this check from time to time. They case under $50 but could be hard to store for voyages.
" I suggest only using low gain antennas on masts so in emergencies you don't have to worry about hee"
He explains in great detail how infrequently heel affects communication, and how easy it is to ease sheets to get level performance.
Very imformative and precise. Thank you very much.
Safe voyage :)
Great video with great info. I would like to see how to make the connections. Thanks.
This vid was just perfect and has helped me immensely. Big wip for the rib it is then with quality cable. Thank you. In cb terms we used to adjust swr by adjusting length of aerial I presume not needed with vhf. 👍👍👍
Might be a good idea but I've not really seen an adjustable vhf antenna.
Wow quick reply thanks mate I’m in uk 👍👍👍👍
If you want to further minimize your cable loss switch from RG-213 to Times Microwave (brand) LMR-400. Same diameter but lower loss.
Yes I agree. Thanks I found that after filming. I put a note in the description. Everyone please read the description.
Here is my story about Punta Abreojos.
In 1971 or 1972 I was returning single-handedly from La Paz in my 32’ Cutter “Ne’ Libre” when I ran up on one of the sandbars just south of Punta Abreojos at Laguna San Ignacio.
The weather had been super nasty for more than a week and I was tacking dead against the wind going north. I was doing about 20 miles each time on each leg before tacking and gaining maybe very few miles.
This of course was before easily available GPS, and my dead reckoning was off. (I guess that’s why they call it dead reckoning). I had seen a light the night before which I assumed was Punta Abreojos but was probably just light from some ranch further south.
The following day I saw some mountains which I assumed were the mountains just north of Punta Abreojos. (They turned out to be mountains way inshore south of the point) Even though I thought I was many miles offshore I apparently was not very far offshore at all. I never saw the low shore, even on that clear sunny windswept day. In reality, I was still way south of Punta Abreojos in the bay.
Again, assuming I was miles offshore, and I had plotted a course parallel to the shore north off Punta Abreojos.
That night, I ran up on a very low shore, bumping over two sandbars.
It was pitch dark and my spreader light showed me in nothing but white water. I had no idea where I was but immediately set out both anchors.
The tide was coming up as the boat was pounding deeper into the sand.
It was not too long before all Portholes blew and the cabin began to flood.
I decided to stay with the boat, and with the breakers getting bigger and bigger decided to climb the mast with my ditch bag tied to me.
I almost made it to the spreaders when I slid back down and badly ripped my leg on one of the cleats. It also ripped one of the pockets in which I had some important papers, such as my old Seaman’s logbook from my Merchant Marine days, but luckily not my passport.
I decided then to get away from the boat, not knowing how big the waves were going to get. I tied a long line around myself and when I jumped into the water. I almost broke my ankles. The water was maybe a foot deep.
Spray and surf crashing all around me, I made it through the white water that swept me of my feet several times even though I never was over knee-deep until I reached dry land.
That parallel to the shore rip current was just incredible. I could barely stand without getting my legs swept out from under me.
I felt a great amount of relief when I saw some brush a few feet further up after I reached the beach.
The next morning I saw my beautiful boat had almost pounded 3 or 4 feet into the sand. At low tide, I could easily walk around the boat in knee-deep water.
The boat itself was full of diesel-coated water. I dove for anything I could rescue.
At some point, I got most of the water out and somehow got that little Volvo started, but the shaft was bent. So that was that.
I set up camp in the dunes that day and (I think?) since I had swallowed some diesel, I passed kidney stones that night. The pain made me pass out.
I woke up to a clear blue sky windswept morning. After passing some blood I recovered somewhat, and I spend the next few days resting and improving my camp.
There was debris from my boat for miles swept up onto the beach.
I was making water in a pit filled with the succulent green plant material that I then covered a clear plastic sheet from my Ditch Bag. I placed a rock in the center and a pan under it, which made the condensation drip nicely into the pan.
I felt secure since I additionally still had several gallon bottles of water that I had salvaged.
A few days later I flew my spinnaker off the masthead when I saw some shrimp boats with their outriggers way offshore.
Actually, I was quite content and comfortable as I had stopped passing blood, until several days later when they came to investigate.
They send a party on a skiff and tried to get me back through the current and waves to get me aboard the shrimper. That is when I managed to step on a stingray walking in the surf, which promptly used its barb to hit me right above my little toe on my right foot.
There was a black spot the size of a nickel on my foot for at least the next ten years.
The attempt to return to the shrimper failed. We simply could not get through the rip current
The pain was from the sting was excruciating but of course nothing like the pain of passing the kidney stone which was still throwing me off.
It also did not help, that even though they did not know about me passing kidney stones, they kept asking me if my kidney area was hurting. There apparently is a type of stingray that is fatally poisonous and kidney failure is a symptom.
Thankfully that was not the case, and to my surprise, I could quickly alleviate all pain by putting my feet next to the fire that they had built.
In light of not being able to return to the boat that night, we all huddled around the fire. I was somewhat entertained by how these grown men were freaked out by the howling of Coyotes.
It was very clear the next day that they wanted me off that beach so they could get my crap, especially my 12 Gauge. But I did not hold that against them.
Anyway long story short, after a lot of back and forth with the Shrimp Boat owners in Mazatlán, Mexico City, the US consulate and the Coast Guard in San Diego who I later found out was busy flying a retired Admiral with a broken leg back from Cabo San Lucas in a Helicopter that I actually saw flying directly over me, but could not be bothered to stop off midway.
I actually thought for a minute that the chopper was for me.
Later that day, I was transferred to a motor yacht that was going south whose owner was an LAPD police captain and a real Jerk. He apparently was not amused for having to take a diesel-covered castaway onboard and even told me that he had been highly inconvenienced. But he had no problem putting me to work trying to fix his 40KW generator when he found out that I was a trained electrical machine builder. I was flat on my back in his engine room when his wife finally took pity on me and handed me a sandwich.
I was just too happy to inform him that the generator was toast.
Anyway, he dumped me and my sail bag full of crap off unceremoniously in Magdalena Bay, from which I made my way back to La Paz and the States.
The News reports and TV stations had me and my whole family drowned, but by the time I got back that was old news and nobody bothered to set the record straight.
That trip was to be a shakedown cruise, and I guess it did shake me out. Anyway…
I knew even before all that, that my navigation skills were crap, but I never had a problem keeping a boat seaworthy unless I crash it onshore.
I wanted to stay connected to the sea and I left a very successful real-estate career temporarily and decided to build four “Most Dangerous Catch” type Steel Fishing Boats, all of them still plowing the Bering Sea. I am proud of that.
I would build Steel boats to this day, but I got shut down by 20% interest rates in 1982 and there was not a boatbuilding contract to be had.
I played for a while with the idea of building steel cruising boats like some outfit in Canada was doing, but my new wife had enough of all those crazy ideas and strapped me back into the real estate harness.
I paid my bills, sold my crane and everything else I could, let 20 people go, and threw a hundred thousand dollars worth of jigs and templates in the thrash.
Broke my heart!
During that time I owned a 45’ Sea Wolf Ketch in Oxnard and sailed the Channel Islands. That kept me sane, even though my wife would argue that.
So… real life interfered, and now it’s too late for me. I spend my days watching everything that sails the sea, and dream of what could have been.
Anyway, I follow everything you publish closely and I have nothing but respect and admiration for you both. I am amazed at your skills and common sense.
All the best!
That's quite a story. Wow. I can't imagine. I've passed kidney stones but not durring a ship wreck.
I feel for you.
@@Clarks-Adventure It took the shine off my adventuring for a while. Luckily I had insurance. My agent got really pissed at me. I guess he had planned not to ever have a claim.
Times Microwave LMR is the best coax around. The -DB version has extra waterproofing in the shield. Comes in a range of sizes / stiffnesses. LMR-400 is fairly thick and stiff, but the smaller sizes aren't a lot lossier if you need more flexibility. Use the thickest stuff that will work for you.
Soldering is more reliable long-term, but those connectors can be tricky if you're not practiced with soldering. Agree on minimizing connections unless you really need them, but if you know you'll need them it might be better to add them in at the beginning (maybe borrow someone or try try again) when you can test and repair more easily than some random later moment when you can't easily get spare parts. Getting the connectors on right is key, so (for me at least) it's worth the extra hassle up front. It's always the connectors, and then sometimes it's the cable.
Great comment, I wish I could have fitted this up my mast but had to go with LMR 240. People also make the mistake of positioning the radio too far from the mast through-hole and having the cable longer than needed.
That was incredible. This may not be in your wheelhouse, but here I go anyway: I'm getting ready to install a VHF package on my 22' bay boat(power boat). I'm mostly in shore, however, I will make about 3 trips/year near offshore for snapper in the Gulf of Mexico. The farthest I would be is 30 miles offshore. Unfortunately, my boat does not have a T-top. I will be mounting my antenna on top of the console rail. The antenna tip would only be about 10' in height off of the water. Here's the equipment that I have chosen: Standard Horizon GX 1850, paired with Shakespeare 6400 Phase III antenna(4'). This would be integrated into my Garmin 942xs via NMEA2K. I need an antenna that is removable for the 95% of my inshore fishing. That's why I chose this setup. Do you have any other advise? Thanks!
Not really besides good wire.
30 mi with that antenna height might not be reliable always but if the fish are out there , there will be other fishermen that can hear you and help or relay.
@@Clarks-Adventure Yes, plenty of other fisherman and manned rigs with vhf comm. If I'm using less than 10' coaxial cable, would you still recommend RG 213? Also,(dumb question) is UHF coaxial the same as VHF? I can get 10' of RG213 U (50 ohm) for pretty good price.. Thanks so much!
It's all about to 50 ohms.
Short is less loss. But it's up to you.
Read the description. There is an even better cable there that is cheaper last I looked
@@Clarks-Adventure Finally looked in your description. Found the correct cable. Thank you sir.
Good info! As a HAM operator in can agree with all of this. Remember... To much, is just enough!