The Fading of Forgiveness
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- In today's episode of “The Word on Fire Show,” Brandon Vogt and I discuss a recent article by Tim Keller, the popular Protestant pastor, titled “The Fading of Forgiveness: Tracing the Disappearance of the Thing We Need Most”. Why are people increasingly skeptical about forgiveness? Keller proposes two reasons: a therapeutic culture, and religion without grace.
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I’m from Iraq ❤️❤️❤️
And I’m following you bishop and your word on fire since 2016! You have a big role in my new vision for faith and loving Jesus and specially as Catholic Christian ❤️❤️❤️ you are helping me to understand a lot of things in my faith and in life as general ,so blessed time when I heard any thing from you and word on fire ! Really I hope to translate everything to Arabic for my people here ,and I do at least in my home ☺️. even in quarantine time I was attended mass with you online from your blessed chapel... Always in my prayers,God bless you all.🙏🙏🙏🌹
The Chaldean church has such a deep and beautiful history that whole church could learn from. God keep you well!
Thanks for growing the Body of Christ in Iraq ! God bless !
Amen!😍🌏
In my opinion, Bishop, this has been one of your greatest talks. I teach at college and I find your points fantastically accurate and also, I believe and hope, very appealing to those who do not believe in God or have left the Church. Will definitely use them at class. I strongly believe this is the way we are supposed to evangelize: with profound, well read and informed arguments which go to the depths of thought.
You really are an inspiration to me. Thank you so much. Greetings from Argentina.
You speak and write English so well. Glad to see that Argentines write English well and not only Spanish
Amen
"Social media serves like crack for moralists" - Allen Jacobs 😂😂😂😂
We often do not distinguish between forgiveness and exoneration. Forgiveness does not mean that social justice should be set aside. They should compliment each other. I can forgive and move on, but there are consequences to actions that one needs to be accountable for. Our society has removed accountability as well as forgiveness. Everything is someone else’s fault.
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You said a lot in your first sentence ❤
@@ValsVersion Nowhere did I mention retribution. Every action has consequences, good or bad. Just as we take credit for a good deed, we need to own up to our bad deeds. When we acknowledge our mistakes, we can learn from them and hopefully not repeat them. Sometimes there is damage done and we need to correct it as best we can. Forgiveness is not the same as forgetting. Forgiveness is giving someone a second chance to not repeat the same error over and over.
King's forgiveness of his enemies freed him to do all of the great work he did on behalf of justice for the oppressed. Justice is different from vengeance.
This conversation brought to mind Dylann Roof, the racist gunman who killed nine people in a Bible study at a Black church. As horrific as any crime imaginable. But the families of the murdered people, indeed the whole of the Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church forgave him publicly. And they proclaimed Christ and the call to forgiveness as they did so.
True Christian witness from the genuinely aggrieved. Impossible to imagine without God's grace.
I couldn't agree more bishop! As someone who has dealt with a secular friend saying rather harsh things to me over something I never knew was an issue in the first place is a key example of how our society has forgotten the value of forgiveness. I greatly wanted to talk things out with this friend and I am sure I would've have been open to change what upset him before it blew up, but instead no forgiveness was had. Instead he burned the bridge and ignored my offering for forgiveness. I continue to pray for this friend of mine that he may find forgiveness and myself that I may fully forgive him.
Thank you Bishop for your amazing words of wisdom Bishop, may God bless you and all that you do for God's church
This video articulates what I experienced as a teacher, a world of the uninitiated, led by those who honor the victims. The antagonism was toxic and palpable. The common purpose of objective values? Absent. Our task as Christians is tougher than we realize. 👊🏻
Yep...Bishop Barron.May God help us all
Bishop Barron, you may not read this due to time, but a few months back I had a disagreement with you and I feel like I needed to apologize if I was disrespectful.
I appreciate your ministry and I wish you every happiness.
God bless you, Kevin.
*"People carrying hate and resentment can invest themselves so deeply in that resentment that they gradually define themselves in terms of it."*
- LEWIS B. SMEDES
*"To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you."*
- LEWIS B. SMEDES
Bishop Barron you are THE MAN! Thank you so much for teaching/clarifying so much for us through TH-cam (of all things)! Word on Fire is BY FAR the best thing on this platform.
Thank you Bishop and Brandon! I’m a theology student for the MA in theology at Catholic Distance University. Your talks and videos help me out in my classes in ways I don’t know how to thank you but to be a better student and Christian at the same time. Blessings always and peace to you and yours
Amen
Thankyou Bishop..
Great to see Brandon & Bishop Barron with updates
I was a victim of many horrible things in my life, but through God’s Grace I forgave them all, not for them but for my own redemption because how can I love God, Love Jesus who forgave the centurion and suffered his passion for the forgiveness of us all and still love myself. Grace.
Desire for reconciliation is the key. Want of justice is properly joined with want of reunification of all, offender and offended.
Forgiveness does not always require abrogation of punishment, but rather preserves the relationship while amends are made. For example, a murderer forgiven by the victim's family might remain in prison to fulfill justice and yet benefit from prayers and communication by the family. Or a teenager's punishment by her parents might be shortened because she genuinely apologized and made efforts to heal the relationship. Jesus speaks of repentance and mercy together.
Thank you Bishop Barron and I really appreciate all your work.. you state that one has to come out of childhood a place of safety or what you fail to realize that many many children in our culture have never had that place of safety to begin with and it's very hard to move on to the initiation phase when you haven't experienced love and safety and I sense the lack of empathy for many of those folks in our society!
Bishop some people are cruel,be safe in your mission,God bless...
wonderfully accurate assessment of what our culture has witnessed in it's genesis, it's struggles, and it's craziness. The wisdom and identification of what is holding us captive these days helps us to challenge the cancel culture in all of it's dysfunction! Thanks Bishop Bob and Brandon.
This should be an amazing video as usual, God bless you all watching this. Amen
Listening from Cape Town South Africa 🇿🇦
It would be great to have a Spanish subtitled version of each of the videos in these series. Catholics in the Spanish speaking countries in the Americas would benefit enormously if they could have the chance to share them
Amen, Father! Forgiveness seems to be a rare thing these days.
By being a victim, one can "legitimize" one's argument.
That's one of the reasons people want to be a victim, so they can somehow magically support their ridiculous claims.
We can thank our legal system in part for this. Our culture refuses to admit any harm has occurred unless you can point to a clear and unmistakable victim. See female victims of sexual violence. Unless she appears to be completely destroyed (often up to death) we simply refuse to believe harm has occurred. If she looks recovered "it must not have been that bad" we refuse to administer justice to people unless we can see the victimization with our own eyes. It's partially our fault.
Forgiveness is being human. The Bible teaches us that we should not whole on to arger till the next day. Meaning we forgive each other before sun set. Jesus was ask how many time can you forgive your brother he answer 70x7. Meaning forgiveness has no limit. Thanks Bishop for this topic. God bless you all.
Such an important discussion - I look forward to “part 2” as to what we can do as Christians to fix this dire situation in our society.
Bishop Barron, Thank you so much for pointing out forgiveness and erroneous understanding in our society. Thank you so much, God bless you and your ministry! My prayer!
Wonderful video as always! I try to tell people about the freedom found in forgiveness, but it usually isn’t received well. Even Christians appear to simply give it lip service. “Yes, yes. We should pray for our enemies.” Yes but it’s so much more! Forgiveness is the wielding of spiritual bolt cutters! Be a badass!
Something that my fellow Catholics will understand is offering up the sufferings someone has caused you. Recently, I stumbled upon the most powerful thing. I offered up the sufferings that my mother had caused me (she tried to sacrifice me to satan as a baby, which led to a lifetime of spiritual problems) for the salvation of my mother’s soul. It was as if power flew out of me. It was weird. And it was the most liberating thing I’ve ever experienced.
If I could tell people one thing, it would be that: offer up the sufferings someone caused you for the salvation of that person’s soul.
Powerfully said!! God wants to bear our load, wants us to lean on Him. Offering up our sufferings is a way of doing that.
I think part of the problem is that our culture right now highly values immediate gratification, and it is easier to find gratification when people tell you it's okay to be angry and that you were wronged, especially when that crowd is in the hundreds or thousands and when details of events can be subjective or biased. Forgiveness means wrestling with the fact that injustice was done to you and coming to terms with it, something which is often not immediate and can take years to make peace with. And that time, that mourning period, is not something acceptable to a society that wants vindication in the moment.
I agree we are failing to forgive each other but there is another side of this. I was bullied in school and later in non Catholic churches I belonged to. I wrote a book about my experiences. Many people dismissed the book as " victim lit" and refused to read it. There is a power dynamic here. Those in power get to decide which injustice is worthy of being affirmed.
What a great way to start a Monday, seeing two of my favorite people! Thank you Brandon for bringing up this important issue, and I look forward to hearing the "more upbeat" conclusion next time. And I loved the listener question and will have to listen to the Bishop's answer a few times as there's so much in it. God bless you both for all you do for us.
I’m publishing a weekly TH-cam video on episodes from the life of Don Bosco, entitled ST JOHN BOSCO by JOE ZAMMIT. In this series I’m narrating events and miracles from the splendid life of Don Bosco. St John Bosco used to perform a miracle almost every day, through the intercession of Mary Help of Christians. From the lives of saints we can learn how to love God more and draw closer to him.. Thank you
Thank you bishop
Wonderful as always, but this time even more important as I have never heard any priest or bishop make the fundamental point that if someone (especially the young) hasn’t had the chance to build their own sense of self-assertion, they won’t have much to take away and therefore you wouldn’t tell only “forgive” to someone like that, because it can even cause harm to them. This is reminiscent of jungian theory: the “shadow” is a crucial step to go through before you can actually forgive.
Love this
If I may ask Bishop Barron and all his followers to storm heaven with prayers for Pastor Keller who wrote the article discussed today. He has been battling pancreatic cancer for over a year. I am a passionate Catholic but think Tim Keller is an incredible Christian apologist, on par with CS Lewis. I encourage everyone to try a few of his sermons, read or listen on Audible to his "The Prodigal God" and other books, but MOSTLY pray for his complete healing.
the Christians speakers I have been most drawn to for a long while now A Protestant (Charles Swindoll) an Eastern Orthodox (David Hart) and a Catholic. I am grateful for all of them. Congratulations Bishop Barron on your ministry.
Thanks for sharing this!
Wow, powerfully enlightening my personal light bulb got activated by this topic. Thank You.
Wow. I notice the same trend in my preteen students at school. Food for thought indeed!
Someone has been promoted!!!
Congratulations Brandon
Our society becomes more secular, and one of the promises of secularism and atheism is that there’s no more sin, and no more guilt,
But in spite of our supposed “tolerance”, all we have now are new, made-up sins and no chance for redemption anymore.
This is the most succinct summary of the problem with modern society's tolerance program.
Bishop and Brandon, guys this topic is excellent!! Outstanding job commenting on this area. Thank you so much, brothers in Christ, you're doing great work, keep it up!!
Agree, forgiveness gives a dimension to justice.
Bishop you have it in a nutshell.the thing humanity needs to make an honest decision to practice virtue and get that way of life from Jesus READ THE GOSPEL FROM BEGINNING TO END .GOD HAS ALL THE REMEDIES FOR US ALL.
Thank you. This is such an important video. So crucial for so many soles who are really so lost in this deceit.
I would love to see a Tim Keller/ Bishop Barron conversation.
He is probably to old to debate, but I would rather see the bishop debate Rabbi Harold Kushner with his belief of a God that is not all powerful. Read his book, When Bad Things Happen To Good People. The rabbi is very convincing. He also believes in a God that doesn't intervene in the world as we know it !
A half formed thought during this extremely interesting discussion: does not forgiveness affirm the self? Forgiveness recognizes that the self's place in community, both temporal and eternal, is more important than the limited satisfaction in a demand for justice. So in a sense, the greater the injustice experienced, the greater the affirmation of the self in forgiveness. So our Lord, who suffered the ultimate injustice, "for the glory set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame," affirmed His authority and capacity over His persecutors by praying, "Forgive them, Father, because they do not know what they are doing."
Jesus says clearly in the Bible…we must forgive so we can be forgiven. He has so many parables out there about how you should forgive and even seek forgiveness before you can be with the father.
@@ntmn8444 Is not seeking forgiveness also an affirmation of one's self? Is this not a good thing, since our Lord instructs us to love our neighbor as our self? Perhaps the ultimate affirmation is that through forgiving others, we begin to perceive the image of God in them and discover as a result that the image of God shines more brightly in ourselves.
Interesting. I don't think I've ever correlated forgiveness to justice.
@@m4641 His justice was in His mercy in the center, the depths of the cross. Mercy is the greatest equalizer.
@@kimberlyanndeangelo7584 Yes, I agree; and to forgive is surely merciful. However, forgiveness is not mercy. They are two distinct concepts; yet intertwined.
It's in this aspect that I've never correlated forgiveness to justice.
Man, what an awesome discussion guys! You totally beat your already high standard in this one!
"...an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth..."
my humble understanding of the above phrase is that it is meant to CIRCUMSCRIBE the aggrieved in his/her desire for justice.
it is NEVER meant as a command for the aggrieved to do so. it is a very good and old wisdom that limits, restricts or curbs so that NO EXCESS is permitted.
thus, forgiveness is STILL an option.
No, forgiveness is NOT an option! It is essential. "Forgive our sins as we forgive those who sin against us!" If you refuse to forgive you will not be forgiven and all your wrongdoing will come over you in this life and the next one. That is called hell.
@Chiyo Next Door I agree. Human justice is temporary. It does not only punish It also has to protect society. The question whether a prison inmate is using his situation to let God change him, is personal. The state cannot force or produce it. (As he can not produce reconciliation between the criminal and his victim.) That makes it so difficult to bring forward real rehabilitation which also should be a goal of human justice.
Love the video! And I've got to say the listener question segment is a banger this time, top notch theology in a minute. Fantastic!
Great discussion! Fantastic.
Great lesson for life 👌 Thanks Bishop and Brandon for forgiveness lesson 👍
I love The Lord's Prayer. God forgives us. Let us forgive others.
“O Great Spirit, our Father from above,
we honor your name as sacred and holy.
Bring your good road to us, where
the beauty of your ways in the spirit world above is reflected in the earth
below.
Provide for us day by day-the elk,
the buffalo, and the salmon. The corn,
the squash, and the wild rice. All the
things we need for each day.
Release us from the things we have
done wrong, in the same way we release
others for the things done wrong to us.
First Nations translation
I thought this show was very smart :) Thank you!
Forgiveness is a gift that we give to ourselves.
How do we get to a level of enlightenment and self awareness to give and forgive? This is a crucial step.
It is so so sad as the sacrament of Pennance is diluted and not easily available in many parishes, one cannot live if unable to forgive
The poet laureate, Jack Gilbert, in Brief for the Defense said it so well: "To make injustice the measure of our attention is to honor the devil. "
This is a point so overlooked, Its point is Injustice is the work of the devil to undermine God's good work. Its message echoes through everything. Keep a steadfast watch on those claiming injustice. They unkowingly work with the Devil to undermine God's good plan.
A priest once told me that the biblical passage concerning “judge not, lest ye be judged” translates more to “condemn not, lest ye be condemned.”..
Justice in the worldly sense may still be served, and still necessary, but you don’t want to condemn anyone to hell. You may send them to prison, but If God gave you the chance to work the door in Heaven, you should never turn your persecutor away.
I will be waiting for this video, Bishop.The title itself is intriguing and interesting.
PS....I missed your video lately. You haven't had another one since Sunday's video.
I'm very glad to have seen your videos. I think it's extremely fitting that you've a Bishop, as you've certainly been a Shepard that's led stray sheep back to the herd.
Including me. It's the lack of serious talk on theology despite my having gone to catholic school that lead me to Atheism. I'm fortunate in that my mind has always been inclined to reason, and that I have the humility to except that I can be wrong.
I was presented with little in the way of convincing argument by the church, but found a great many Atheists using every argument worth making a youtube video about to argue against theism of any kind. You've talked on this before, the need to teach the actual theology to young Catholics. I feel and fear that it's just like how the council of Trent was too late to address the protestant's "reformation", even if it did do so well. That the catholic church has been too late to address the lack of serious theological discussion in schools. I'm aware of your work on this matter and I hope that it will prevent more sheep from straying as I did. Thank you.
Justice without prudence leads to the inability to forgive.
I wish I could agree more completely with your position, Bishop. The problem is - no one can give someone a conscience. If the oppressed speak up, and the response is a shrug, or gaslighting, or condemnation, then summoning up forgiveness is an exercise in futility. Eventually it’s just too painful to watch the tyrants carry on as usual. And letting go of the entitlement, the normalcy that goes with power - I think only God can effect a change like that. Pray for oppressors? Forgive them? To an extent, but it doesn’t solve the problem. Final thought - social media makes grievances seem worse. I think it’s worth avoiding by us ordinary sinners.
The ‘Love, Forgiveness and Reconciliation’ message of the Civil Rights era is just the story we pass on and sanctified. The actual history included very strong strains of Black radicalism.
In the 16th century, the Protestant English poet, Edmund Spenser, described in “The Faerie Queene” the Lex Talionis as a ruthless, unfeeling iron giant.
Sadly I participated in the mania of vindictiveness as a catholic school teacher. The system of honoring and defending victims to promote “justice” is so addictive. It is a religion that justifies cancellation, division, exclusion, and dehumanization. Evil is so deceptive it appears as “the good.” Thankfully, I was freed from that toxicity, freed to more clearly understand mercy and forgiveness. Evidence: Word on Fire. 😁
Forgiveness is divine, hence it should be self-evident why mortals struggle with such a powerful idea.
“Love your enemy.” I do recall some wise words that also stated, “If I love and respect you, I love and respect myself.” Ometeotl 💯🙏🏽🦅🥶
It is hard. It is hard to forgive.
@@ntmn8444 roger that
Thank you Bishop for this. I am looking forward to the second part. I would be very interested in listening to a review from you of the book Atlas Shrugged.
All you need to ask yourself is, if all men are of equal value and importance, why didn't the protagonist marry the plumber?
Rand can mop up the floor demonstrating the flaws of men, but be completely ignorant of those of women? She slept with both the men she respected the most, leaving the one who loved his work with his work while running away with the unpredictable and untamed Francisco.
It's pathetic and not worthy of having survived at the forefront of literature for so long. It is a romance novel with ten times as many words.
@@Zematus737 You did read the book until its conclusion right? And I'm not crossing into Rand's flaws in her own life.
@@riley2489 I did. It just wouldn't do for it to seem like she was dragged along on anyone else's coattails, can it? So obviously can't have her owned by any man in matrimony, good Lord forbid!
It is a godless piece of work and is everything I said and less.
Word.
I don't have a problem with people taking responsibility and not using victim hood, as long as we are consistent and expect the same from corporations, governments, churches, and public officials ! It seems to me in our modern world at least here in America everybody is out for themselves. One of the problems is our modern society seems to isolate people where people no longer wants to be bothered with other humans. I seen a study recently where people actually stated they wore ear phones of some kind in order to tune people out. People have replaced human interaction with their technology devices. Sadly it's only going to get worse !
The concept of a forgiveless or blind society reminds me of my thoughts when I experience drivers on the road driving dangerously and aggressively. If we all drove that way, our ability to travel would be severely limited.
Great analogy!
Well that was great.......!
During the last days, the world has witnessed the pope acknowledging the « wrongdoings » of the Church towards the First Nations in several locations in Canada. I was left ambivalent as to how many of the liturgies were authentic expressions of christian love and remorse towards the First Nations. The episcopal representation appeared to be more interested in being with the pope than with the men and women of the First Nation. My ambivalence took an unexpected turn with the number of comments to the effect that the Church’s actions and disposition were and seemingly will remain never enough. The vicious cycle of wrongdoing, contrition and financial « reparations » seemed to have been re-initiated. And both parties have played a role in it.
Levis Shalom
Sometimes, people who practice forgiveness are gaslight into thinking they're weak or lack self esteem. Forgiving sets one free from an enormous mental burden. The thing is we need to go through life forgiving more than once or twice, and it's easier said then done.
Forgiveness is an interesting thing. When you forgive someone, YOU actually feel better. Holding on to grudges and resentment is a heavy burden. When you forgive someone, it's a tremendous weight off your shoulders. It brings peace to you and the person you're forgiving. It's a win/win. And it's instructed directly from Christ, so it's actually a triple win.
To the Robert from Ohio, that's one of the first points St Thomas Aquinas addressed in the "compendium" of Summa Theologica
I enjoyed this video but feel a bit conflicted. I am a Canadian and many of our provinces have been discovering the mass graves of First Nations children who attended residential schools. Many of these schools were run by the Catholic Church and currently they are the only one to not have offered a formal apology to victims. Also, many of the priests and nuns who are accused of committing these crimes have yet to be prosecuted. Shockingly the last school only closed in the 90s. Yes me must forgive, but Catholic leadership must get everything on the table first. God bless.
I am Canadian as well. on The local level the bishops have apologized which is no different than the other churches involved. The two big players were the Catholic and Anglican and the Queen is the head of the Anglican church. Neither her nor the archbishop of Canterbury have come to Canada to make a formal apology. I live in Edmonton Alberta and I know a lot of Oblates the order involved which serve first nations communities and they genuinely love first nations people. We have a priest at a first nations church here father Susi from Kerala India and the guy speaks fluent Cree and incorporates FN culture in the Mass. They recently did the Lac STE Anne pilgrimage which is a big pilgrimage for first nations Catholics and they made repeated apologies and prayers for the pope to come and apologize.
“O Great Spirit, our Father from above,
we honor your name as sacred and holy.
Bring your good road to us, where
the beauty of your ways in the spirit world above is reflected in the earth
below.
Provide for us day by day-the elk,
the buffalo, and the salmon. The corn,
the squash, and the wild rice. All the
things we need for each day.
Release us from the things we have
done wrong, in the same way we release
others for the things done wrong to us.
FN translation
This is our big issue right now in Canada with indigenous people and the residential schools. We need hope and healing that can only come from forgiveness.
“O Great Spirit, our Father from above,
we honor your name as sacred and holy.
Bring your good road to us, where
the beauty of your ways in the spirit world above is reflected in the earth
below.
Provide for us day by day-the elk,
the buffalo, and the salmon. The corn,
the squash, and the wild rice. All the
things we need for each day.
Release us from the things we have
done wrong, in the same way we release
others for the things done wrong to us.
FN translation pf the lord's prayer
I’m publishing a weekly TH-cam video on episodes from the life of Don Bosco, entitled ST JOHN BOSCO by JOE ZAMMIT. In this series I’m narrating events and miracles from the splendid life of Don Bosco. St John Bosco used to perform a miracle almost every day, through the intercession of Mary Help of Christians. From the lives of saints we can learn how to love God more and draw closer to him.. Thank you
I look forward to the positive aspect of forgiveness. I have trouble with this condemnation of all who are troubled by 'micro-regressions'. God hears their cry like he hears the cries of the poor - and it doesn't depend on the rightness of their theology. You don't come alongside the repressed by condemning them. Turn, rather, to look closely at how easy it is to follow blindly in to repression; to turn a blind eye to those who suffer abuse and neglect. The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honoured among men. And it is vile to treat others with contempt. I can think of better things to condemn than a man who takes the knee in support of blacks - or even of one who topples statues of those who did harm.
Can you kindly attach part 2 to this video
Bishop Barron says that a cause is the diminishment of religion. Does he mean Christian religion, or all religion. Does Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism act as a barrier to this sort of development?
At our RCIA a Muslim woman and her husband left Iraq and came west to freely become a Catholic. She and her husband are now Catholic! Praise God.
I like that Bishop Barron makes the distinction that one must first have a healthy sense of self in order to give it away in radical self-love. Thus, it's a misuse of Christian piety to use guilt to, say, pressure women into staying in highly abusive relationships, or to just give carte blanche recommendation to everyone to practice heavily physical penances/fasting, when there are some people (such as those with a history of cutting or anorexia) for whom such penances would be problematic. Yes, St. Therese was able to fully give herself over to suffering at the end of her life, but St. Therese had (compared to many in our modern world) an apparently happy childhood, in which she was never abused and very rarely suffered from sexual harrassment. One can simply see the difference that makes when one looks at the life of Leonie, Therese's older sister. Leonie made 3-4 attempts at the religious life before she was finally able to find an order she could stick with. But Leonie also was singled out by the Martin family maid for abuse when she was a child/young teen; the maid exerted psychological pressure to force Leonie to disobey her parents. And when you have a tradition that encourages you to examine your conscience regularly, it's not hard to see how Leonie's history had the potential to lead her to think she was defective or at fault during those young days, when really she was at the mercy of an adult who was manipulating her.
My point is that authentic Christian virtue can be differentiated from garden-variety self-abuse, self-loathing, or "doormat syndrome" in that it comes from a place of inner strength based on one's firm identity in Christ. I wouldn't give a fig for the kind of "forgiveness" which involves simply enabling further abuse. Forgive your abusive spouse, but if the abuse is still ongoing or very recent, get the h%$# out of Dodge, for Pete sakes. And while we Christians should emphasize forgiveness, "big" abusers should not feel safe around us. As a Church, we need to bring back the tradition of big, maybe even public, penances for major, major sins (such as child abuse, spousal abuse, any kind of sexual activity that involves manipulation--which is also abuse). For example, the leader of the religious order that was housing Mr. Theo McCarrick a few years ago offered to let the man live there for free. While I'm sure the leader was just trying be magnanimous, that offer is just tone-deaf when you consider how much damage McCarrick did to the Church. His was not a momentary lapse, but a concerted pattern of abusing over years and years, and then lying to cover it up. For the salvation of his own soul, he should have to pay his own room and board, if for nothing else to at least start making a small amount of amends for the havoc that he has wreaked in the Church.
I wonder what extent might a disbelief in repentance or the ability for people (individually or corporately) be part of the picture here too?
Can't go wrong forgivness.
Redemption precedes forgiveness.
Ο Χριστός είναι ο βασιλιάς μας.
Will the Word on Fire Science and Faith meetings be posted on TH-cam later?
COVID-19 is showing us our weakness, and what we need to do together to get through COVID-19
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Forgiving in this world is a dangerous weakness. If you forgive your enemy you’re only giving them a chance to regroup and attack you again. Constantly forgiving minor slights leads you to being treated poorly or even being abused. And ultimately it’s used by the elites to control the foolish masses.
Forgiveness is a decision not a feeling. As a decision it's unconditional therefore attaching the condition of accountability to forgiveness disqualifies it from being forgiveness. I strongly agree that integrity as a virtue advocates for justice and accountability and therefore one should be held accountable for crimes done, albeit forgiveness being a constant. Even Jesus had to die as ransom for our sins, We must know where to draw the line. There is sin and there is crime, in the context of the church sin is forgivable but in the context of the state based on whichever country's jurisdiction you're in, every crime has a penalty it attracts, the church shouldn't overlook that.
In my humble experienece, "forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling". Actually "feeling" forgiveness in one's heart of hearts, may take a long time of soul-searching. And divine grace.
Since Dr. king also had need of forgiveness as per the me too group he was more likely to forgive as per Our Lords command
Aquinas tells us, “Justice demands satisfaction for sin.”, and cites this as the necessity for Christ’ incarnation and sacrifice. That if God had decided to restore man solely by an act of will, that the order of Divine Justice would not be served. How is it that we forgive trespasses and God forgives trespasses, yet there is a price which remains unsettled? What is exchanged? Perhaps another subject for a video 👍🏼.
I’ve always wondered about forgiveness. Like I know Christ said to forgive your brother 70 x 7, but is that only if the brother admits his faults and ask for it? Like it’s just hard for me to imagine that I’m supposed to forgive when they may enjoy their cruelty or whatever
You are supposed to forgive regardless. Look at Jesus' and Timothy's example, they asked for forgiveness for those that killed them and it is very evident their killers were self satisfied in their actions. It is hard and uncomfortable and unpleasant to consider forgiving the worst of us, but I think a part of being Christian is realizing that we, too, are the murderers of Christ and because of that we are all equally guilty, but also equally forgiven.
@@gpanthony But if these damages are coming from a fellow believer, who is basking in their sin, you take the approach of Paul in regards to the youth who abused his father's young wife.
There's a difference to harm from those who don't know better and damage caused by those who should have.
@@gpanthony Thanks for the response. I think you're right, but as for myself, it's a long way to go to integrate this into my character
Nice video Bishop Barron. Curious why you reference Richard Rohr. He seems to be a heretic based on some of his views on the divinity of Jesus. Am I wrong here? Would love your perspectives on this.
Very interesting. But the first time Jesus Christ was mentioned is after minute 21! And what I missed in the analysis is the point, that everybody needs forgiveness. Because we all sin against God and one another. So if we don´t forgive we are acting against ourselve. And there are also many right wing "Christians" who are full of condemnation and judgmental hate against those they call "communists" or "liberals".
We are where we are from sin and fear of recognition of our own horrors within. The cycle of pain spins on out of control, our only holdfast, our only rock in this flood, is Lord Jesus Christ upon the Cross. He Himself is our Ark and His Mercy the ocean to extinguish these flames of hatred within and between us all.
I’m publishing a weekly TH-cam video on episodes from the life of Don Bosco, entitled ST JOHN BOSCO by JOE ZAMMIT. In this series I’m narrating events and miracles from the splendid life of Don Bosco. St John Bosco used to perform a miracle almost every day, through the intercession of Mary Help of Christians. From the lives of saints we can learn how to love God more and draw closer to him.. Thank you
Outrage Culture and Cancel Culture are pure poison.
The danger of falling into the victim hood thinking is that we get caught up into the trap of having the right to get away with anything that we
can do in return to others to get even and end up committing bigger injustices that the one is being done to us in the first place.
We will never be satisfied or at peace unless we forgive from the heart like Christ says.
At the end everyone in this world with not exempt can commit an injustice to another.