These videos are so much fun! I adore all the "FASA-esque" starships, and these remind me of all the hours I spent as a teenager creating crews for my fleet!
I love the design of the refit-classes of the Kirk movie era and the uniforms are the best too! "the Red ones not the TMP ones, as they looked a little too tight fitting"
Nice. I like it. I had the Tech Manual as a kid (bought it new) and in my imagination I was Captain (maybe Commodore) of USS Dominion. I am Canadian after all....
Great vid as always! They do make a conversion kit for the Federation Class and the Belknap Dreadnought ships . Both are available online.The only difference is that they move the third nacelle and warp engine back inline with the other two by extending the neck. I even built a kit just with the straight nacelles and used the third nacelle and warp engine to kitbash a destroyer class of my own design.
I always was a fan of the Federation class ever seeing that version of it on the cover of the novel "Dreadnought!" and was also always dissapointed that it has been presented as a failure generally in its beta canon lore explanation for why it never really showed up (ie. underpowered, underarmed, lacking focus in role). It was fascinating to see your take on the lore of the troubled Federation class and its refit. Now that I've seen the real life dissapointments of several real life naval ship classes, I feel there is quite a bit of plausibility in the tale. Interesting that to save the ship it had to be "downgraded" from a dreadnought to a heavy cruiser!
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and executed and informatively explained in every detail way shape and form possibly provided indeed, And the Dreadnought class starship's have always been one of my favorite designs, And I myself have model kits of this class the TOS and Refit design as well!,👌.
I'm always glad to see anything on the federation class. Sadly it does make sense that the attempt to refit it would fail since everything else had been improved by so much already.
I think you did a great job with what the Federation higher-ups told people. Possibly some brave leaker can come forward with the dark secret of Section 31's Ultimate clocked battleship that could never be uncovered until now all these years later...
When I was in my freshman year of High school, I was introduced to the FASA version of Star Trek the Role Playing Game. My friend, Famous (yes that's his name) and I created a version of this starship and added more on it. Our creation,the USS Congress,had 8 sets of phasers on the top and 8 sets underneath the primary hull. The connecting dorsal was widened to match the width of the secondary hull to have a battle bridge installed,as well as six torpedo bays in the front and stern underneath the shuttle bay. The pylons were the standard construction refit version,but lowered down below the saucer,even the third warp engine pylon was at a sharper angle than standard (65° angle toward the rear). We used two stat sheets to operate this ship. We were unstoppable until the others decided to kick us out of the group
Good vid, and nice looking animation. Your reasoning makes a considerable amount of sense. The Enterprise refit was literally engineered to be a top of the line vessel; a new queen of Star Fleet. Adding a 3rd nacelle adds power but also weight and expense. With the new weaponry already top-of-the-line, you're not getting much more punch, considering the ship eats up its additional power just to move. Not to mention the whole class would be under constant refit, since any upgrades would need to be installed immediately, lest the dreadnought class in general find itself unexpectedly outclassed by more traditional ships of the line, like Enterprise/Constitution, Miranda, or even a Chandley. Hell, once Excelsior goes into production the game is over anyway. I mean, keep the design in your back pocket, obviously, but don't field a whole fleet of these overlarge, overpriced, single-purpose craft when already maintaining a fleet of more nimble, more versatile craft are already in active production and benefitting from a more relaxed refit schedule.
"The Trekken Road is leaden-paved with hella good Entente-mentions." (Alan Dean Foster, the writer of TMP's script and treatment, may not be the best of us as a person but he adored Franz Joseph's designs and never lost that love.)
Like so many other lifelong Trek fans, I think the refit Connie is the be-all and end-all of starship design. Even kit bashes of her look way cooler than anything the ppl at CBS have come up with. Speaking of which, I'd like to see your take on the Ulysses-class dreadnought (from the old PC game Starfleet Command) and maybe the Yamato-class battleship, too ;).
She went from being the USS Federation NCC-2100, a refit Federation Class dreadnought to being the USS New Jersey NCC-1975-A, a Constitution II Class. Cool story. Well done. 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
This is excellent. Love the Dreadnought. I had all the Franz Joseph stuff back in the early 80's. We used to play Star Fleet Battles (I think it was called that,) anyway, a really cool tabletop strategy battle game, all the really cool ships from the TOS era. Hey What about the Klingon D-4 (I think it was the D-4.) We called it the "Frig-Nought". Anyway, I would LOVE to see a video on the little monster.
I like to imagine a constitution refit style atlas P.s. I like how you used excelsior nacelle pylons, it fits the clunky aesthetic much better, it’s a beautiful model
Great video also there was a book called Starship Design Interstellar Forum for Naval Power that had the federation refit in it just in case didn't know about it.
Love your videos. It’s nice to see more love in the fanbase for the TMP area lately, this area language design is really classy. I would love to see your versions of some of these Starfleet command games ships like the Yamato from Klingon academy, the Okinawa-class, the Dreadnaught of Starfleet command, the akyazi class and so on. Thanks and LLAP from the UK.
I heard about these that they actually moved the bridge deeper into the primary hull, to protect it from enemy fire disabling the ship. ive seen renderings without the bridge module up top but ive also seen renderings like here. So i wonder what would be more acceptable?
I would have retained the TMP type nacelle pylons, because they use flush vents in an emergency (albeit at a lower angle). A three nacelle ship also means more mass to move, so you'd probably "get more torque, not more horsepower". You need to move the impulse crystal for the third nacelle (which is really there to power the saucer if it's separated as a lifeboat. I knew Franz Joseph, and discussed the dreadnaught concept at length.
I dont make the models, just retexture them and use them! And I 100% disagree with you about the pylons... I think this design has a better balance, and gives the class its own uniqueness!
Good work as always. I personally think you need to move the top nacelle to the drive and maybe give a more bulky torpedo section--maybe get shrink down the neck?--but I'm being really picky here. I love hearing about the complete failures of the federation. :D
Hello Triangulum. Although a failure by the Federation, the class did have some advantages in battle. The 3rd nacelle alone ensured that the ship could still attain maximum warp, in the event of the loss of one nacelle. With all three functioning, the ease and speed to get to higher warp factors increased over 'standard' twin nacelle designs. My own 'take' on this ship warrants a refit... to place two mini-warp cores (both vertical) on either side of the upper dorsal section. This, of course, would mean losing some interior spaces, and moving the fusion engines for the impulse drives outboard, instead of their 'normal' placement closer to the center line of the starship. I admit that having those fusion engines further away from the center line does put them closer to the outer edges of the ship, and thus results in a slightly higher chance of enemy fire damaging them, but that is a minor consideration when one considers the overall power output of the ship being nearly doubled due to the addition of two small warp cores inside the saucer and near the mid-line of the vessel. These 'mini cores' would allow the ship to pump more power to be used in combat, and thus maneuvering, general speed at impulse, and both weapons fire and shields would benefit from the available power pool. A modification of the Phaser arrays would allow 'overcharged' firing. With the additional power available from the mini cores. Although the above refit does not increase overall speed, it would decrease the time needed to obtain any desired warp speed, as well as adding to the energy needed for impulse drive, allowing the ship to become faster in 'normal' space. And with the power available from those cores, both shields and weapons would benefit, and be able to fire full power shots, with shields at maximum, for a far longer duration than the 'normal' Federation class. And one final benefit to the proposed upgrade(s)... Far more armor could be fitted onto the hull, and thicker, stronger internal structures could be retrofitted, or enhanced integrity systems could be installed. This alone makes the new Federation class worth the investment, in that the ship could sustain combat for fare longer durations at high output, and with the added armoring and enhanced integrity systems, take far more damage from enemy fire, before being even slightly affected by that combat potential. Such a ship, mostly leaning to combat, would NOT fit the Federation's stance of peaceful exploration... and thus I could see that only a few such vessels would be built and used. But, in the event of a war, such a ship would be worth two or more Constitution class ships, and survive combat against multiple enemies far easier than the said Constitution class ship. Just a few thoughts.
Though I love the imagination and initiative, there are many problems with your ideas... Having 3 Nacelles has nothing to do with maintaining speeds longer... Canon has proven this in Series like Enterprise, where the ship was able to travel for the same length of time with only 1 Nacelle Working, just lower speeds because it couldnt generate tighter warp fields... Also, there is no such thing as a "MinI-warp core" Sure warp cores can be different sizes, but components determine the rate of plasma sent to various systems. You cant just include a second warp core, as a starship couldnt handle the access power, thats why we dont see any ships with 2 active warp cores in canon, as the cores would breach... All explained in the TNG Tech Manual! Thus nothing that could be done in that Era, or as you suggest, could have saved the class... It would always be a failure! Take care!
I liked most of it till the end. The dreadnoughts aren't simply Constitutions with a 3rd nacelle and more weapons. They're dimensionally larger. While the parts of certain classes look the same (e.g. Saladin, Constitution, Federation) they are proportionally different. Converting it's layout to a Connie Refit in appearance would still leave it a noticeably larger ship.
They actually Arent that much bigger, especially in the refit model! Fed Refit = 335 Meters, Connie Refit = 305 meters, thats only a 30 meter difference... AND it's actually one solved by the changing of the Nacelle as they push further forward then they do on the Federation Class Refit!
Now we just need a history of the proxima class and also how the Atlas class was reborn in 2410 as the Command Battlecruisers (Geneva, Concorde, and Presidio)
Great video as per usual. But I have a question question. Where does it ever say the Warp scale was revamped? Never in canon have I ever heard or seen anything that says they changed the warp scale.
Canon doesnt always have to directly say something for it to be canon, just show it and this is the case with Warp Speed, which is in turn supported in all Beta Canon. For example, In TOS starships were able to travel, and were shown travelling, OVER warp 10 many times. Where as in TNG, suddenly Warp 10 is infinite warp with no speeds over it. Gene himself confirmed that in universe the Warp Speed in the 24th Century had been rewritten to accommodate for this! Even the warp Acceleration Graphic seen in TOS is different then the one seen in TNG. Mike Okuda even created a Warp Scale Comparison chart for Roddenberry that was included in the TNG Tech Manual, and that the show used for warp speed calculations!
I have a theory on the post TOS “kit bash era” that applies certain real world situations, specifically the post WW1 Washington treaty that crippled aircraft carrier development , AND the US army /Air Force divorce settlement that limited the army to helicopters (i am only referencing them, not describing them at this point) During a period of stagnation in new ship class design and partial bans on both pure military class and single purpose classes above a certain size. Star fleet R&D grasped onto a little know “ship of Theseus “ clause in its charter, which allowed it greater flexibility in “experimental” ship design IF the completed ship was made with a certain percentage of salvaged or surplus components and that explains kitbash era….
Nahhhh, first the Connie, which is easier and faster to construct, could also be equipped with Megas making that design upgrade moot. And second, the design had far more problems then just weaponry!
The Galaxy-X-Class was even a good design, the third warpnacell is meant to stay longer at warp, because the stress of warp speed is diverted to three instead of two nacells. Interesting, there was never an Excelsior-X-Class. ;) I guess the Excelsior Project event stopped the refit of the Federation class, because the Excelsior was a great success, with the normal warp drive, so there was no need for a another heavy cruiser or dreadnought. ;)
Im sorry you are incorrect about "the third warp nacelle is meant to stay longer at warp" there is nothing in canon to support that idea and is directly contradicted by Canon in Series like Enterprise, where even with 1 Nacelle Functioning, the ship could stay at warp for the same amount of time... Also Beta Canon sources, like the TNG Tech Manual say this is also not the case, instead supporting the explanation I gave!
Uhhhh this class existed LONG before the Galaxy Dreadnought did! Being created ias a TOS version in 1975, then the refit version in 1979! So if anything, its the other way around!
Well they dont mention "New Warp Scale" in Trek, they show that it's changed! And I think I did videos on both Old and New Warp Scales... If you do a channel search for Warp or Warp Speeds I think you'll find them! Have fun!
In my head, the refit constitution did not get a refit dreadnought variant because the constitution refit removed the need for a dreadnought version. It did this through a quantum leap in power generation with the collision (vertical) type warp core.
So in my head cannon and the book im writing which takes place in 2425. The new Valley Forge Class is a 3 Nacelle drsign Dreadnought that even though its bigger than the Odyssey Class and Galaxy X Class, its design elements are influenced by the old 23rd Century Federation Class, and Odyssey Class. Ive always loved the Federation Class. Ive also loved the Akula Class from Shattered Universe. So some design elements from the STO Resolute Class, Excelsior Class and the Akula Class show the design heritage of my Texas Class Dreadnought. And No I dont consider the Automated Texas Class Starships from Lower Decks Canon. In my book they are known as Lonestar Class Vessels.
TBH, the fed refit would need to go for a larger warp core and far more phaser batteries, at the very least upgrade the dual phaders to 3 emitter batteries, and add more single emitterd around the ship. My headcannon is that by the time they realized this, the excelcior was selected as a wholy better platform.
If that upper nacelle were removed, but the lower pylons left at their place, that would have made a very nice looking ship too. Actually could have made a good refit by itself. Would make the constitution look more like the direct predecessor to the ambassador. Of TOS, TNG, DA9, and voyager, the Excelsior is the ugliest thing (other than ST3) besides the Oberth.
Actually it wouldnt have made a good refit at all... A Refit is done to substantially improve a starships Technology and Performance. |Doing what you suggest would really be nothing more then an Aesthetic Change, with no real benefit otherwise. Thus that kind of refit would not only be a waste of time, but not achieve the goals Starfleet was attempting to achieve with this refit!
I prefer the reference from Starship Design that had both the Federation and Ascension class dreadnoughts as being successful. They would go on to have 9 Federation and 5 Ascension class ships. In design the third nacelle would stabilize and extend the warp field further. It also could power the saucer section if separated. I do not agree that this class should be presented as a failure.
Im sorry you feel that way and You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't change the fact it was, in fact, a failure. But I encourage and welcome you to create your own video if you disagree!
At least, USS Federation (Starfleet Registry: NCC-2100) potentially served another purpose, though, as a Federation Class refit, it underperformed, but in its rebirth, as a Constitution II Class, USS New Jersey (Starfleet registry: NCC-1975-A), where she served with honour in the Federation Starfleet, defending the interstellar territories of the United Federation Of Planets. I salute USS New Jersey-A!
While your fan history for the refit is a good story and it makes sense, another possible story was the refit was in itself fine but the new Excelsior class ships were at least on the drawing board and were superior in every way to that design.
Being on the drawing board wouldn't have happened until the 2280s... And regardless, the Excelsior was the great "Experiment," and it failed... It wasn't until the 2290s with an extensive refit that the Excelsior proved worthy, long after the point where the Federation Class Refit failed... Sorry, you got nothing here :(
I feel like making it into a full on constitution after failing to function as a dreadnought seems like a bit of an unnecessary step as while yeah I can see them sticking in a constitution warp core which doesn't require the extra pylon on the saucer to fit in the ship, I think they could just not bother to change the aft nacelle pylons and leave them low down. Yeah it might screw over the warp performance a little but it would still work fine. Could also have mounted an Oberth secondary hull atop the dorsal pylon and turn the ships of war into science ships like proto-springfeilds or nebulas in a sense.
Nah, it was the right choice as A) You dont waste resources if it can be helped. And B) Given the situation with the Klingon Empire, you dont make a substandard ship design!
well, I think she's looks great. However, I would've moved the third to the Hull. best sensor system of the where the torpedo launcher is located at. Drop the dreadnought status, to an Carrier then making into another Con. Refit. Your design, does look great, but, I think she should've been made into a carrier then an Dreadnought.
Well, its not my design, its based on the Original Series Franz Joseph design which has the nacelle where it is here! And personally I think it looks much better where it is as it balances out the design!
Even removing the third nacelle, why not leave the other two on their flat pylons with the 90° turn similar to what would be used on the Excelsior and Galaxy classes. Did it have to do with warp geometry or just to hide the fact it was not originally a Constitution class?
Was never a fan of tos and movie era dreadnoughts because there nearly the same size as the constitution dreadnoughts are suppose to be larger then your mainline ships
Just because some designs show Nacelles as Symmetrical, doesnt mean they all are, especially since we've seen multiple times IN CANON that there are designs that simply are not! And once there's one design that isnt, that makes your original idea incorrect! And PS, in ST:TMP the 3 Nacelles Federation Class Joseph design is seen on bridge monitors, again making your idea completely disproven. And THAT is canon! ;)
I don't want to sound negative, but at this point all these things are just rearranging various parts of the same few ships. I half expect to see someone stick the neck of the Enterprise D on the saucer of the Voyager, with the engineering section of the constitution and the Nacells of the Excelsior. And then try to give it some form of legitimacy. It might be different if all the ships were aesthetically pleasing but half of them are just a garble.
Well you DO sound very negative... After all it's only your personal opinion that doesnt reflect the majority of viewers... Especially since most of these designs ARE beloved Beta Canon designs... So you can expect many, MANY more! Take care
Hrm, I do think it loses some elegance with those right-angle nacelle pylons. (I'd also always had the impression the Dreadnought classes were actually bigger and with appropriately-more power, so maybe if they'd stayed with that idea the refit would have found its niche. :)
Ok I used to love when your content would drop but now it seems like you're basically releasing a new video every day and it's too much, I can't watch that much content and am missing stuff. It ruins the content. Please slow down
Uhm I release 2-3 videos a week, like Ive always done (except for a short stint where I was sick) Sorry you cant keep up, but I will be continuing to create videos at my pace!
Actually the Federation Class and it's upgrades are a significant part of Starfleet Battles. Between the DN+, DNG, DNH, DNF, CVA and SCS there were at least 6 variants built on the basic DN Hull plan.
@TriAngulumAudioStudios , It's just that SFB seems to be an ignored corner of Beta Canon. The game started based on the Tech Manual and Blueprints from the 1970's but it eventually expanded into a massive unique setting due to its unique licensing agreement with Paramount. Obviously most of factions introduced are unique to the setting, but at least the Federation, Klingons and Romulans have ships that would make interesting Beta Canon Videos. In fact, the Y series Early Years supplements do help fill in some of the blanks between Enterprise and Discovery.
I use ALL Beta Canon sources including Starfleet Battles in my videos (when they apply and don't contradict Canon) But your use of the word "actually" denotes that I said "the Federation Class and it's upgrades are NOT a significant part of Starfleet Battles" and I didn't! In future please choose your words more wisely, and don't make accusations that do not exist to further a narrative you want to put forth!
@TriAngulumAudioStudios , I know that you're now approaching 300 videos and I haven't scratched the surface in watching them. As a huge SFB fan and long time player, can you direct me to videos of Non Franz Joseph or the obvious TOS ships that you've done or are thinking of doing? I realize that some ships like the NCL have existing analogs like the Miranda but a few like the Old CL and Police Cutter have designs that are radically different than the Starfleet Saucer/Ball, Nacelles and Secondary hull norm.
Ive actually done FAR more videos than just 300, just about a year ago I got rid of about half the videos I did for updating (or other) reasons... As to your request, you'll just have to watch the videos... I don't memorize which videos I make that contain specific sources. I research every video thoroughly, and if information exists in them from SFB, then it does, and if not, then it doesnt! Part of the big problem with creating videos specifically for classes in Starfleet Battles, is that the 3d Models DONT (rarely) exist, at least none of any quality useful to these videos... So in order to make those videos I need to create the ship myself, but Im not a 3d Modeller, and can only kitbash designs together myself... Plus there are TONS of starships to be done from TONS of sources, and thus I get to a class when I get to it! Please be patient, thank you!
I love this era designs. Some of the best-looking ships still to date. Thank you for such a great video, and most definitely Nerd Approved!!
Glad you like them! And as always, thank you :)
There was a TOS novel by Diane Carey called Dreadnought! Which was released in 1986.
A very good read.
Indeed it was, and I did mention it in my intro, indirectly ;)
A good read?! No no no, it was a *BAD* read :P
Only joy is Federation class.
I have that book if I remember correctly the ship in question was the USS Star Empire
@@TriAngulumAudioStudiosyes and I have that book. #29 from Pocket books.
@@firetop-cn8vbyou are correct!
These videos are so much fun! I adore all the "FASA-esque" starships, and these remind me of all the hours I spent as a teenager creating crews for my fleet!
Making the USS Federation a successor to the New Jersey was a good touch.
Thank you, I try ;) :P
USS Federation is a beaut.
I love the design of the refit-classes of the Kirk movie era and the uniforms are the best too! "the Red ones not the TMP ones, as they looked a little too tight fitting"
LOL they certainly didnt leave much to the imagination :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios lol...
Nice. I like it. I had the Tech Manual as a kid (bought it new) and in my imagination I was Captain (maybe Commodore) of USS Dominion. I am Canadian after all....
I think it’s major downfall is the fact that during the refit, the bowling alley was removed
Im sorry you are incorrect, the refit version not only expanded the Bowling Alley, but also added a secondary one! :P
Great vid as always! They do make a conversion kit for the Federation Class and the Belknap Dreadnought ships . Both are available online.The only difference is that they move the third nacelle and warp engine back inline with the other two by extending the neck. I even built a kit just with the straight nacelles and used the third nacelle and warp engine to kitbash a destroyer class of my own design.
I always was a fan of the Federation class ever seeing that version of it on the cover of the novel "Dreadnought!" and was also always dissapointed that it has been presented as a failure generally in its beta canon lore explanation for why it never really showed up (ie. underpowered, underarmed, lacking focus in role). It was fascinating to see your take on the lore of the troubled Federation class and its refit. Now that I've seen the real life dissapointments of several real life naval ship classes, I feel there is quite a bit of plausibility in the tale. Interesting that to save the ship it had to be "downgraded" from a dreadnought to a heavy cruiser!
Thank you so much! Often times Im limited by the beta canon Lore as to what story I can tell... But thankfully here, that wasnt the case :)
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and executed and informatively explained in every detail way shape and form possibly provided indeed, And the Dreadnought class starship's have always been one of my favorite designs, And I myself have model kits of this class the TOS and Refit design as well!,👌.
I'm always glad to see anything on the federation class. Sadly it does make sense that the attempt to refit it would fail since everything else had been improved by so much already.
The Federation Class is so cool! Really enjoyed this video! The bit about the dashed letter was really cool!
A great story that fits perfectly to your other videos!
Thank you very much!
Did I just see...AN ABBE CLASS?!
Yes, yes you did... And unfinished reskin of her ;)
Woooooo!
I love these videos! I just get sad when a class fails.
I think you did a great job with what the Federation higher-ups told people. Possibly some brave leaker can come forward with the dark secret of Section 31's Ultimate clocked battleship that could never be uncovered until now all these years later...
When I was in my freshman year of High school, I was introduced to the FASA version of Star Trek the Role Playing Game. My friend, Famous (yes that's his name) and I created a version of this starship and added more on it.
Our creation,the USS Congress,had 8 sets of phasers on the top and 8 sets underneath the primary hull.
The connecting dorsal was widened to match the width of the secondary hull to have a battle bridge installed,as well as six torpedo bays in the front and stern underneath the shuttle bay.
The pylons were the standard construction refit version,but lowered down below the saucer,even the third warp engine pylon was at a sharper angle than standard (65° angle toward the rear).
We used two stat sheets to operate this ship. We were unstoppable until the others decided to kick us out of the group
Holy hell, sounds like an TOS era Sovereign class
Good vid, and nice looking animation. Your reasoning makes a considerable amount of sense. The Enterprise refit was literally engineered to be a top of the line vessel; a new queen of Star Fleet. Adding a 3rd nacelle adds power but also weight and expense. With the new weaponry already top-of-the-line, you're not getting much more punch, considering the ship eats up its additional power just to move. Not to mention the whole class would be under constant refit, since any upgrades would need to be installed immediately, lest the dreadnought class in general find itself unexpectedly outclassed by more traditional ships of the line, like Enterprise/Constitution, Miranda, or even a Chandley. Hell, once Excelsior goes into production the game is over anyway.
I mean, keep the design in your back pocket, obviously, but don't field a whole fleet of these overlarge, overpriced, single-purpose craft when already maintaining a fleet of more nimble, more versatile craft are already in active production and benefitting from a more relaxed refit schedule.
"The Trekken Road is leaden-paved with hella good Entente-mentions." (Alan Dean Foster, the writer of TMP's script and treatment, may not be the best of us as a person but he adored Franz Joseph's designs and never lost that love.)
The most I ever saw of a refit Federation class are the various versions uploaded to the old Bridge Commander Files pages.
Well now you've seen it here too :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios and it's a welcome sight at that.
Well Im glad youve enjoyed it :)
There was a Star Trek magazine back in the day called Starship Design. In it it talked about the Federation Class and the Belknap class dreadnoughts.
I have it myself
Like so many other lifelong Trek fans, I think the refit Connie is the be-all and end-all of starship design. Even kit bashes of her look way cooler than anything the ppl at CBS have come up with. Speaking of which, I'd like to see your take on the Ulysses-class dreadnought (from the old PC game Starfleet Command) and maybe the Yamato-class battleship, too ;).
This thing popped up as one of the last unlocks in a DS game if I remember right.
The secondary hull and pylons look a lot like the Ambassador class
Fun as always! Thank you! Live long and prosper!
Thank you! You too!
I like to think it was like the XB70 Valkrie bomber--more promise rather than action.
Thank you very much for this nice Information Video about Fédération Rift class
My pleasure Dom :)
Nice video.
Thanks!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios any time, are there any reviews of the current Star Trek shows in the season?
Well I dont really do reviews of episodes, but as for general overviews, I dont have any planned, but that could change!
She went from being the USS Federation NCC-2100, a refit Federation Class dreadnought to being the USS New Jersey NCC-1975-A, a Constitution II Class. Cool story. Well done. 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
Nice power and speed
Well it was supposed to be anyhow :P
This is excellent. Love the Dreadnought. I had all the Franz Joseph stuff back in the early 80's. We used to play Star Fleet Battles (I think it was called that,) anyway, a really cool tabletop strategy battle game, all the really cool ships from the TOS era. Hey What about the Klingon D-4 (I think it was the D-4.) We called it the "Frig-Nought". Anyway, I would LOVE to see a video on the little monster.
Great video.
Thanks!
I like to imagine a constitution refit style atlas
P.s. I like how you used excelsior nacelle pylons, it fits the clunky aesthetic much better, it’s a beautiful model
Great video also there was a book called Starship Design Interstellar Forum for Naval Power that had the federation refit in it just in case didn't know about it.
Thank you, I did know about it, but it's fan created, not Beta Canon! :)
Love your videos. It’s nice to see more love in the fanbase for the TMP area lately, this area language design is really classy. I would love to see your versions of some of these Starfleet command games ships like the Yamato from Klingon academy, the Okinawa-class, the Dreadnaught of Starfleet command, the akyazi class and so on. Thanks and LLAP from the UK.
AWESOME VID !!!!!
Thanks!!
i would have a warp core for propulsion and a warp reactor each for shield and weapons
I heard about these that they actually moved the bridge deeper into the primary hull, to protect it from enemy fire disabling the ship. ive seen renderings without the bridge module up top but ive also seen renderings like here. So i wonder what would be more acceptable?
I hope you cover the Decatur class soon.
So there is a refit Dreadnought!
so basically all the new TMP era technology basically made the federation class... obsolete.
Basically, yes!
thanks for covering this, have you also done the yamato & uylessus classes & the star empire version of the federation class from kirks era?
Been waiting for you to do this video for a while 😃
Only SO much time in a day 😜
Those old TOS dreadnoughts were ugly, but I'm still fondly nostalgic for them
is there more of the 32nd century chronicles coming up?
Yes, be patient! :)
Am I the only one who saw similarities between the secondary hull of the refit and the ambassador class?
What about the Chandley class and other FASA ships?
if you havent would not mind see one with the proxima class this is one of my favorite ships
If you can get me the 3d Model, sure!!
NCC-2501 USS Belknap
She looks like a quarter light year drag racer or a blockade runner Connie.
I would have retained the TMP type nacelle pylons, because they use flush vents in an emergency (albeit at a lower angle). A three nacelle ship also means more mass to move, so you'd probably "get more torque, not more horsepower". You need to move the impulse crystal for the third nacelle (which is really there to power the saucer if it's separated as a lifeboat. I knew Franz Joseph, and discussed the dreadnaught concept at length.
I dont make the models, just retexture them and use them! And I 100% disagree with you about the pylons... I think this design has a better balance, and gives the class its own uniqueness!
I sm not sure if your aware of the ships from klingon academy but they where some of the best designs 🤔 since the neo constitution
Very aware, I still have my copy of the game ;)
Good work as always. I personally think you need to move the top nacelle to the drive and maybe give a more bulky torpedo section--maybe get shrink down the neck?--but I'm being really picky here. I love hearing about the complete failures of the federation. :D
Hello Triangulum.
Although a failure by the Federation, the class did have some advantages in battle. The 3rd nacelle alone ensured that the ship could still attain maximum warp, in the event of the loss of one nacelle. With all three functioning, the ease and speed to get to higher warp factors increased over 'standard' twin nacelle designs.
My own 'take' on this ship warrants a refit... to place two mini-warp cores (both vertical) on either side of the upper dorsal section. This, of course, would mean losing some interior spaces, and moving the fusion engines for the impulse drives outboard, instead of their 'normal' placement closer to the center line of the starship.
I admit that having those fusion engines further away from the center line does put them closer to the outer edges of the ship, and thus results in a slightly higher chance of enemy fire damaging them, but that is a minor consideration when one considers the overall power output of the ship being nearly doubled due to the addition of two small warp cores inside the saucer and near the mid-line of the vessel.
These 'mini cores' would allow the ship to pump more power to be used in combat, and thus maneuvering, general speed at impulse, and both weapons fire and shields would benefit from the available power pool. A modification of the Phaser arrays would allow 'overcharged' firing. With the additional power available from the mini cores.
Although the above refit does not increase overall speed, it would decrease the time needed to obtain any desired warp speed, as well as adding to the energy needed for impulse drive, allowing the ship to become faster in 'normal' space. And with the power available from those cores, both shields and weapons would benefit, and be able to fire full power shots, with shields at maximum, for a far longer duration than the 'normal' Federation class.
And one final benefit to the proposed upgrade(s)... Far more armor could be fitted onto the hull, and thicker, stronger internal structures could be retrofitted, or enhanced integrity systems could be installed. This alone makes the new Federation class worth the investment, in that the ship could sustain combat for fare longer durations at high output, and with the added armoring and enhanced integrity systems, take far more damage from enemy fire, before being even slightly affected by that combat potential.
Such a ship, mostly leaning to combat, would NOT fit the Federation's stance of peaceful exploration... and thus I could see that only a few such vessels would be built and used. But, in the event of a war, such a ship would be worth two or more Constitution class ships, and survive combat against multiple enemies far easier than the said Constitution class ship.
Just a few thoughts.
Though I love the imagination and initiative, there are many problems with your ideas...
Having 3 Nacelles has nothing to do with maintaining speeds longer... Canon has proven this in Series like Enterprise, where the ship was able to travel for the same length of time with only 1 Nacelle Working, just lower speeds because it couldnt generate tighter warp fields...
Also, there is no such thing as a "MinI-warp core" Sure warp cores can be different sizes, but components determine the rate of plasma sent to various systems. You cant just include a second warp core, as a starship couldnt handle the access power, thats why we dont see any ships with 2 active warp cores in canon, as the cores would breach... All explained in the TNG Tech Manual!
Thus nothing that could be done in that Era, or as you suggest, could have saved the class... It would always be a failure! Take care!
I liked most of it till the end. The dreadnoughts aren't simply Constitutions with a 3rd nacelle and more weapons. They're dimensionally larger.
While the parts of certain classes look the same (e.g. Saladin, Constitution, Federation) they are proportionally different.
Converting it's layout to a Connie Refit in appearance would still leave it a noticeably larger ship.
They actually Arent that much bigger, especially in the refit model! Fed Refit = 335 Meters, Connie Refit = 305 meters, thats only a 30 meter difference... AND it's actually one solved by the changing of the Nacelle as they push further forward then they do on the Federation Class Refit!
I’d really like to see the evolution of the Prometheus in the form of the Hestia or Hydra class
Abbe class foreshadowing?
In a way, one day, that model needs a LOT of work! :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios we'll be waiting, how ever long it takes
Thank you :)
You should do a survey of all Nonna cell technology, starting with the NX 01 Enterprise
Now we just need a history of the proxima class and also how the Atlas class was reborn in 2410 as the Command Battlecruisers (Geneva, Concorde, and Presidio)
Great video as per usual.
But I have a question question.
Where does it ever say the Warp scale was revamped?
Never in canon have I ever heard or seen anything that says they changed the warp scale.
Canon doesnt always have to directly say something for it to be canon, just show it and this is the case with Warp Speed, which is in turn supported in all Beta Canon.
For example, In TOS starships were able to travel, and were shown travelling, OVER warp 10 many times. Where as in TNG, suddenly Warp 10 is infinite warp with no speeds over it. Gene himself confirmed that in universe the Warp Speed in the 24th Century had been rewritten to accommodate for this! Even the warp Acceleration Graphic seen in TOS is different then the one seen in TNG. Mike Okuda even created a Warp Scale Comparison chart for Roddenberry that was included in the TNG Tech Manual, and that the show used for warp speed calculations!
I have a theory on the post TOS “kit bash era” that applies certain real world situations, specifically the post WW1 Washington treaty that crippled aircraft carrier development , AND the US army /Air Force divorce settlement that limited the army to helicopters (i am only referencing them, not describing them at this point)
During a period of stagnation in new ship class design and partial bans on both pure military class and single purpose classes above a certain size.
Star fleet R&D grasped onto a little know “ship of Theseus “ clause in its charter, which allowed it greater flexibility in “experimental” ship design IF the completed ship was made with a certain percentage of salvaged or surplus components and that explains kitbash era….
One of the biggest mistakes was NOT the equip the ship with Megaphaasers. That would fix the firepower issue immediately.
Nahhhh, first the Connie, which is easier and faster to construct, could also be equipped with Megas making that design upgrade moot. And second, the design had far more problems then just weaponry!
Yu grew up knowing this was a class of ship? I have NEVER heard of this until today.
Yes I did, so did many others... Guess you should get out more :P LOL
The Galaxy-X-Class was even a good design, the third warpnacell is meant to stay longer at warp, because the stress of warp speed is diverted to three instead of two nacells. Interesting, there was never an Excelsior-X-Class. ;) I guess the Excelsior Project event stopped the refit of the Federation class, because the Excelsior was a great success, with the normal warp drive, so there was no need for a another heavy cruiser or dreadnought. ;)
Im sorry you are incorrect about "the third warp nacelle is meant to stay longer at warp" there is nothing in canon to support that idea and is directly contradicted by Canon in Series like Enterprise, where even with 1 Nacelle Functioning, the ship could stay at warp for the same amount of time... Also Beta Canon sources, like the TNG Tech Manual say this is also not the case, instead supporting the explanation I gave!
“Hey yknow that Galaxy refit from TNG? What if we did that to a Connie?”
Uhhhh this class existed LONG before the Galaxy Dreadnought did! Being created ias a TOS version in 1975, then the refit version in 1979! So if anything, its the other way around!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios oh
LOL yes! :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios ?
??
I always hear about the warp scale change... But never in cannon. Can you do a video on that?
Well they dont mention "New Warp Scale" in Trek, they show that it's changed! And I think I did videos on both Old and New Warp Scales... If you do a channel search for Warp or Warp Speeds I think you'll find them! Have fun!
Can you also make a video about the Proxima class please?
If I ever get a model of it that I can use!
I've been writing a script for the U.S.S. Federation. Had I been able to post pics I would have sent some pics.
take ofc the 3rd nacelle and it really has a refit class kind of early enterprise c kind of vibes
In my head, the refit constitution did not get a refit dreadnought variant because the constitution refit removed the need for a dreadnought version. It did this through a quantum leap in power generation with the collision (vertical) type warp core.
Well your "head" would be incorrect, at least in regards to Beta Canon!
So in my head cannon and the book im writing which takes place in 2425. The new Valley Forge Class is a 3 Nacelle drsign Dreadnought that even though its bigger than the Odyssey Class and Galaxy X Class, its design elements are influenced by the old 23rd Century Federation Class, and Odyssey Class. Ive always loved the Federation Class. Ive also loved the Akula Class from Shattered Universe. So some design elements from the STO Resolute Class, Excelsior Class and the Akula Class show the design heritage of my Texas Class Dreadnought.
And No I dont consider the Automated Texas Class Starships from Lower Decks Canon. In my book they are known as Lonestar Class Vessels.
“ I “ “ Do “ “ Not “ “ Know “ “ About “ “ This “ “ Re “ “ Fit “ “ Design “ “ ???!!!! “
TBH, the fed refit would need to go for a larger warp core and far more phaser batteries, at the very least upgrade the dual phaders to 3 emitter batteries, and add more single emitterd around the ship.
My headcannon is that by the time they realized this, the excelcior was selected as a wholy better platform.
At Warp 10, distance was inconsequential
These are OLD Warp Scale Speeds, before it was re-written in 24th Century, so Infinite Warp at 10, doesnt exist yet!
If that upper nacelle were removed, but the lower pylons left at their place, that would have made a very nice looking ship too. Actually could have made a good refit by itself. Would make the constitution look more like the direct predecessor to the ambassador. Of TOS, TNG, DA9, and voyager, the Excelsior is the ugliest thing (other than ST3) besides the Oberth.
Actually it wouldnt have made a good refit at all... A Refit is done to substantially improve a starships Technology and Performance. |Doing what you suggest would really be nothing more then an Aesthetic Change, with no real benefit otherwise. Thus that kind of refit would not only be a waste of time, but not achieve the goals Starfleet was attempting to achieve with this refit!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios I think it would have looked good and would have saved time when refitting it back to Constitution 2. An odd sub variant.
Again there would be no point, as the design failed to achieve it's goals, and thus, reverted back to a proven design!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Yes, it failed with 3 nacelles, but what about 2 oriented in left/right below saucer as this experiment shows?
Ive already said, there is NO point to that design! Sooooo no
Major Kira: I thought Starfleet didn't believe in warships.
TriAngulum: Beta Canon
(Classified) Beta Canon ;)
I prefer the reference from Starship Design that had both the Federation and Ascension class dreadnoughts as being successful. They would go on to have 9 Federation and 5 Ascension class ships. In design the third nacelle would stabilize and extend the warp field further. It also could power the saucer section if separated. I do not agree that this class should be presented as a failure.
Im sorry you feel that way and You can disagree all you want, but that doesn't change the fact it was, in fact, a failure. But I encourage and welcome you to create your own video if you disagree!
At least, USS Federation (Starfleet Registry: NCC-2100) potentially served another purpose, though, as a Federation Class refit, it underperformed, but in its rebirth, as a Constitution II Class, USS New Jersey (Starfleet registry: NCC-1975-A), where she served with honour in the Federation Starfleet, defending the interstellar territories of the United Federation Of Planets. I salute USS New Jersey-A!
While your fan history for the refit is a good story and it makes sense, another possible story was the refit was in itself fine but the new Excelsior class ships were at least on the drawing board and were superior in every way to that design.
Being on the drawing board wouldn't have happened until the 2280s... And regardless, the Excelsior was the great "Experiment," and it failed... It wasn't until the 2290s with an extensive refit that the Excelsior proved worthy, long after the point where the Federation Class Refit failed... Sorry, you got nothing here :(
I feel like making it into a full on constitution after failing to function as a dreadnought seems like a bit of an unnecessary step as while yeah I can see them sticking in a constitution warp core which doesn't require the extra pylon on the saucer to fit in the ship, I think they could just not bother to change the aft nacelle pylons and leave them low down. Yeah it might screw over the warp performance a little but it would still work fine. Could also have mounted an Oberth secondary hull atop the dorsal pylon and turn the ships of war into science ships like proto-springfeilds or nebulas in a sense.
Nah, it was the right choice as A) You dont waste resources if it can be helped. And B) Given the situation with the Klingon Empire, you dont make a substandard ship design!
47
Getting there! :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios 😂 I’m gonna get it one day, ONE DAY, I’ll be 1 & 1. Thanks for the video.
Why were there two different saucer designs on FJ's dreadnoughts?
Im sorry, what do you mean?
well, I think she's looks great. However, I would've moved the third to the Hull. best sensor system of the where the torpedo launcher is located at. Drop the dreadnought status, to an Carrier then making into another Con. Refit. Your design, does look great, but, I think she should've been made into a carrier then an Dreadnought.
Well, its not my design, its based on the Original Series Franz Joseph design which has the nacelle where it is here! And personally I think it looks much better where it is as it balances out the design!
Even removing the third nacelle, why not leave the other two on their flat pylons with the 90° turn similar to what would be used on the Excelsior and Galaxy classes. Did it have to do with warp geometry or just to hide the fact it was not originally a Constitution class?
It had everything to do with warp geometry and what was the best configuration for the class!
Want a real world reason? Maintenance of the ship.
A real world reason for what?
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios For them not to refit Federation Class . It has happened more than once. That is why EV trucks will win. Maintenance cost.
Im sorry i have NO idea what you're talking about! Nor did I even ask such a question in the video... Take care
Third nacelle is to close to the inhabited areas of the ship defeating the purpose of the pylons for the other two.
Sorry, thats just a myth that canon has long since disproved!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Then why the pylons at all then?
Warp Field geometry of certain starship hull designs!
I think it would have been a good look just to remove the third nacelle and go with the straight-out pylons.
Kind of missing the point then :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios possibly, just thinking out loud.
LOL And just responding to your thought ;)
Forbidden Egg beater
Was never a fan of tos and movie era dreadnoughts because there nearly the same size as the constitution dreadnoughts are suppose to be larger then your mainline ships
The core problem with the design is, that the refit nacelles (LN-64) are actually not symmetrical. So the center nacelle simply does not work.
Sorry you are incorrect, that idea does not exist in canon and in fact, canon has completely disproved that idea!
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios Last time I watched ST:TMP they were not symmetrical. Guess that counts as canon.
Just because some designs show Nacelles as Symmetrical, doesnt mean they all are, especially since we've seen multiple times IN CANON that there are designs that simply are not! And once there's one design that isnt, that makes your original idea incorrect!
And PS, in ST:TMP the 3 Nacelles Federation Class Joseph design is seen on bridge monitors, again making your idea completely disproven. And THAT is canon! ;)
I don't want to sound negative, but at this point all these things are just rearranging various parts of the same few ships. I half expect to see someone stick the neck of the Enterprise D on the saucer of the Voyager, with the engineering section of the constitution and the Nacells of the Excelsior. And then try to give it some form of legitimacy. It might be different if all the ships were aesthetically pleasing but half of them are just a garble.
Well you DO sound very negative... After all it's only your personal opinion that doesnt reflect the majority of viewers... Especially since most of these designs ARE beloved Beta Canon designs... So you can expect many, MANY more! Take care
Hrm, I do think it loses some elegance with those right-angle nacelle pylons. (I'd also always had the impression the Dreadnought classes were actually bigger and with appropriately-more power, so maybe if they'd stayed with that idea the refit would have found its niche. :)
LOL angle of the pylons wouldnt have mattered :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios WEll, I wasn't saying functionally, but I saw some drawings that looked more elegant. :)
Elegance wise, I think this is much better then the angled one :P
@@TriAngulumAudioStudios De gustibus, I guess. :)
You mean "de gustibus non est disputandum" dont you? :P
Three nacelles looks like crap. Every time. So does one.
That's too bad you dont like them, as I and the majority does! it's nice to see a variety of designs with 1 and 3 Nacelles!
In my opinion this one just does not look as good as its predecessor
Ok I used to love when your content would drop but now it seems like you're basically releasing a new video every day and it's too much, I can't watch that much content and am missing stuff. It ruins the content. Please slow down
Uhm I release 2-3 videos a week, like Ive always done (except for a short stint where I was sick) Sorry you cant keep up, but I will be continuing to create videos at my pace!
Actually the Federation Class and it's upgrades are a significant part of Starfleet Battles. Between the DN+, DNG, DNH, DNF, CVA and SCS there were at least 6 variants built on the basic DN Hull plan.
Okay, and? I don't recall saying they werent...
@TriAngulumAudioStudios , It's just that SFB seems to be an ignored corner of Beta Canon. The game started based on the Tech Manual and Blueprints from the 1970's but it eventually expanded into a massive unique setting due to its unique licensing agreement with Paramount. Obviously most of factions introduced are unique to the setting, but at least the Federation, Klingons and Romulans have ships that would make interesting Beta Canon Videos. In fact, the Y series Early Years supplements do help fill in some of the blanks between Enterprise and Discovery.
I use ALL Beta Canon sources including Starfleet Battles in my videos (when they apply and don't contradict Canon) But your use of the word "actually" denotes that I said "the Federation Class and it's upgrades are NOT a significant part of Starfleet Battles" and I didn't! In future please choose your words more wisely, and don't make accusations that do not exist to further a narrative you want to put forth!
@TriAngulumAudioStudios , I know that you're now approaching 300 videos and I haven't scratched the surface in watching them. As a huge SFB fan and long time player, can you direct me to videos of Non Franz Joseph or the obvious TOS ships that you've done or are thinking of doing? I realize that some ships like the NCL have existing analogs like the Miranda but a few like the Old CL and Police Cutter have designs that are radically different than the Starfleet Saucer/Ball, Nacelles and Secondary hull norm.
Ive actually done FAR more videos than just 300, just about a year ago I got rid of about half the videos I did for updating (or other) reasons... As to your request, you'll just have to watch the videos... I don't memorize which videos I make that contain specific sources. I research every video thoroughly, and if information exists in them from SFB, then it does, and if not, then it doesnt! Part of the big problem with creating videos specifically for classes in Starfleet Battles, is that the 3d Models DONT (rarely) exist, at least none of any quality useful to these videos... So in order to make those videos I need to create the ship myself, but Im not a 3d Modeller, and can only kitbash designs together myself... Plus there are TONS of starships to be done from TONS of sources, and thus I get to a class when I get to it! Please be patient, thank you!