Love how you bring up the subjectivity of time signatures. I’ve always felt confused when musicians in my life spoke of them as so objective and innate.
The highest time sig I've ever seen was in "Entertain Me" by Armenian jazz pianist Tigran Hamasyan, which uses a staggering 256/16 time signature for two bars, lasting for about 25% of the song. The 256 notes are divided into 7 bars of 35/16 with a bar of 11/16 at the end. The 35/16 is divided into four sets of 5/16 and five sets of 3/16. The 11/16 bar is one set of five and one set of six. Later in the song it switches to 128/16, divided into three bars of 35 and one bar of 23. After that it switches to a completely insane 64/16 time signature with an absolutely ridiculous pattern, and if that wasn't enough it then layers a 4/4 polyrhythm on top of that. Truly bonkers if you ask me.
@@normanj4007 being together with the odd time signatures is what makes it a polyrhythm, because there are two signatures being played at the same time. for example, 4/4 and 3/4 together would be 4 against 3
@@normanj4007 basically a 64/16 beat on top of a 4/4 beat, but because the 64/16 is divided so strangely, it still counts as a polyrhythm. I probably could have worded that better, to be honest.
Two songs come to mind here: 1 - There's an "Allegro" variant of the JFA Examination theme, which adds a B section that's in 25 (3+3+3+2+2+3+3+3+3) rather than 27. (The A section is still in 27.) 2 - "Oh no! WASPS!!" from Bug Fables is one of the most rhythmically unusual songs I've ever heard in an RPG, due to its leaning very hard into Balkan-style rhythms,. Assuming I can count, the intro and A section are in 23 (2+2+2+2+3+2+2+2+3+3, or 11+12), the B section seems to be 29 (2+2+3+2+2+3+2+2+2+2+2+2+3, or 7+7+8+7) followed by 28 (2+2+3+2+2+3+2+2+2+2+3+3, or 7+7+8+6), and then there's a 4/4 guitar solo section for good measure.
2- never heard this before or seen any gameplay of Bug Fables, and yet I have to agree, this is rhythmically one of the most confusing songs I've ever heard (in an interesting way)
If you want a really really weird one, one of the Sumeru Battle Themes from Genshin Impact is in 54/8 or maybe alternating 33/8 with 21/8. It’s called Gilded Runner and it follows the Fibonacci number sequence.
re 1/1, around 2:20 : phrases of (usually 2, 4, or 8) bars can be felt as such in most music, unless it's particularly downtempo. if you hear a song use a 3-bar or a 5-bar phrase, it'll have a distinct feel to it that honestly doesn't get explored enough (presumably because it's not expressed in the time signature, so we don't think about it)
Great example of this is Ruin Seeker from TUNIC. It's the credits theme that plays for the bad ending, and the 3-bar phrase makes it feel off without being super noticeable.
So glad to see more wacky time signature tunes -- and to see that Ace Attorney track on here! It's fun hearing your explanations, especially the thematically appropriate usage of 18 for Terapagos. Another Ace Attorney-ish track with a weird set of time signatures (or a normal time signature with some really obnoxious syncopation?) is Ghost Trick's 4 Minutes Before Death theme. It tricks you into thinking it's plain old 4/4 with the synth pattern in the first two measures, but then when the bass & drums kick in, something feels off if you count it in 4/4. Until recently, I thought it was some rubato tempo shifting or I was just going crazy, but I realized that the synth pattern changes slightly and the bass lines up with alternating 17/16 and 15/16 -- 4+4+5+4, then 4+4+3+4. And to make things even MORE confusing, later on the composer layers the original 4/4 version of the synth riff over top of the 17/16,15/16 bass pattern. It's subtle enough and the drums are sparse enough that it can get away with feeling like "4/4 and you're imagining things"
Yeah when I tried recreating this track a while ago the drums and bass were so confusing with those parts. I thought the synth pattern changed between when the bass and drums come in and when they fade for a moment but it’s the same pattern for both parts. The drums and bass are what make it sound completely different
18:10 AAAAAA I WAS SO PLEASANTLY SURPRISED TO HEAR THIS POP UP!! i haven't thought about this song in maybe even a year now but i used have so much fun trying and failing to clap to it.. love ace attorney music
re 10:27, my maths professor (Professor Stankova at UC Berkeley; she's absolutely goated) plays music videos before class while we enter. One day she played a bulgarian folk song called Kaval sviri and part of it had roughly the same 2-2-2-3 rhythm
i NEED u to talk about deluge dirge from splatoon 3- it starts at 12/8 and changes every measure up to 25/8, and then goes up to **5000 BPM.** all of the music from splatoon 3s salmon run is so fucking good, i also recommend listening to the songs that play during the big run event!!!
03:00 Oh yeah the track with the E.M.M.I. nois- wait a second! The E.M.M.I. were only introduced in Metroid Dread, but that definitely sounds like the E.M.M.I. noise!
As someone with limited music theory knowledge and practically no rhythm I find it fun to try and figure out the sub divisions for each time signature and then fail miserably. I don't understand how people manage to count this stuff but I find it hella impressive and I will continue to watch videos on oddly specific/obscure music theory that I don't understand
I feel the 3+3+2 and 3+3+3+3+2+2 grooves *extremely* strongly, like more strongly than any other groove in either this or the previous video. (And my reaction to the 4/4 analysis of those grooves was "What? That doesn't make any sense. You're just playing a totally different time signature over this clearly different groove.")
I’m freaking psychic, I paused at 19:47 because I remembered L’s theme and how I tried to figure out the time signature one time in my head and I started humming it, and then I unpause and see that it’s literally the next one
7:02 I have a counter example: Touhou's "Theme of Eastern Story"'s main motif (which I hear as 3x6+1x4 -> 22/16) is used as a leitmotif in many other touhou songs (could not name an example, sorry), and often times has one of the bars of 6 chopped off -> 2x6+1x4 -> 16/16. Probably because the 3x6/2x6 sets up a certain expectation that we are in something like 6/8, that last bar of 4 feels like something's chopped of. I have this feeling even in the 2x6+1x4 making it not feel 4/4 at all.
5:22 me and my friends had a silly idea for a 16/16 division of 3 + 3 + 4 + 3 + 3 at the time, it sounded absolutely absurd but thinking back it was basically just 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 but slightly different lol
*4/12 is a thing; here me out.* Percussion music loves polyrhythms and syncopation. Typically 16th notes are grouped into fours to follow the pulse of 4/4 or 3/4, but drum music (usually snare or hi-hat) often accents every third 16th. This pushes the rhythm ahead of the beat and adds a triplet feel. In 3/4 you have twelve 16th notes. Accenting every third note gives you four accents for a 4:3 polyrhythm, which you could isolate as _four_ dotted-8th notes per measure of _twelve_ 16th notes. (Thus 4/12) This polyrhythm often gets used in 4/4 as well, but because sixteen is not divisible by three, the last four 16th notes are often accented on two's, creating a 3+3+3+3+2+2 impulse (which could be notated as 16/16 or 4/12+2/8). I've been playing music with this "on three's" accent pattern for years and I was always frustrated that there wasn't a word to describe it. It feels like triplets but it's not. "Triplet-like," "triplet-feel," and "psuedo-let" didn't cut it. It also didn't help that I saw it in 4/4 a lot more than 3/4 at first. (Probably because the groove is more funky in 4/4.) When I started playing a lot of songs with this 4:3 polyrhythm in 3/4 in my first year of college (and after watching your first video on weird time signatures) I realized the 4:3 in 3/4 could be expressed as 4/12. Except it's actually 4/6. 😅 Or maybe a dotted-8th note does equal a 12th note? There's a reason I'm a music major and not a math major. But the feel of four beats over twelve 16th notes (especially without an instrument playing the 4er note base rhythm) shifts the feel of the tempo, like it's a sped up 4/4 with 12th note subdivisions. (I think _that's_ the value that my brain is instinctively assigning 12 to: the triplets that show up in 4/4, rather than the dotted-8th in 3/4.) So maybe this rhythmic pattern is expressing 4/6, maybe it's 4/12, or maybe it's just a 4 : 12 polyrhythm and I'm overthinking it.
Your first example should be 12/16+4/16. As for triplet-based polyrhythm, writing in 12/12 might work but there's no universal agreement I think, and without writing a lot of 3s, it's probably better to just write the "16th note = dotted 16th note" symbol which is more agreed.
SJ experiments a lot with time signatures, Out of Time has a section that alternates rapidly between 3/4, 4/4 and 5/4 without much of an apparent pattern, and there's a couple songs that are in straight 5/4 like the amazing Symphony in the Dark. And then of course there's Shattersong where the gameplay itself revolves around the 7/8, 10/8 and 13/8 time signatures of the music, which gets expanded upon in the heartside with Shatter the Pantheon, which is based on a 3:5 polyrhythm
Times like these is when I'm glad that Kirby and the Forgotten Land's equivalent of the jukebox has an indicator for where the beats are - the Waddle Dees themselves. They vibe to the beat of the music and even speed up/slow down if the tempo of the track changes. This is especially helpful for tracks such as Hunted by the Beast (theme of the second-to-last boss of the main game and also a massive spoiler) where the music is... uh... interesting, let's just leave it at that.
time signature enthusiasts rise up 🗣🗣🗣 i was waiting to hear you talk more about nintendo music, some of my favorite video game tracks have unique time signatures :)
Depending on how loosely you want to define "video game", the infamous music from "CrazyBus" is probably as solid an example of a 1/x time signature as anything.
It neatly fits in 2/4 or 4/4. There's a video of a drummer playing along to it and it isn't hard for him to find a groove. What key it's in on the other hand...
8:30 thank you so much for saying this, most music theory is always thought as dogmatic and when there's concepts that don't fit in, they try to shoehorn it in anyway, further conviluting an already confusing topic. time signatures are for orchestras, drummers who are trying to wrap their heads around rudiments and nobody else.
Honestly, I have to agree with your assessment of 8/8 and 16/16 still feeling like quadruple time. I guess it doesn't help that I've been doing music nearly my whole life so when I hear unusual/difficult rhythms I always habitually figure out how to count them relative to a stable beat and then feel that beat, but it does make me perceive all of your 8/8 examples as just 4/4 and it takes some effort to feel the syncopation as the main subdivision. Anyway, great video! Although I've been doing music for so long I was mostly classically trained so my experience is a lot stronger with the more common time signatures and your last video and this one were very insightful.
Your note about Terapagos's theme bring intentionally composed in 18 to reflect the 18 Pokemon types reminded me of something I thought of years ago. The legendary Clock Town theme from Majora's Mask is in 12/8, and I'm reasonably confident that was intentional because a clock's face has 12 numbers. Obviously nothing is guaranteed since 12/8 is a lot more common than 18/8 is, and so could be more likely to be accidental, but Koji Kondo is so intentional with his compositions that I'd be willing to bet that's why it is the way it is.
Essence of Metroid Prime, the second phase of the final boss track, has some spicy shifting (or mixed) time signatures! YT Link to track: th-cam.com/video/42A3uigYXsQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=z_F94cMtyg5Ii_RC&t=1m41s At 1:41, we have 28/4 - or 7/4, 6/4, 7/4, 8/4 when it's considered as mixed measures (I count the beats [quarter notes] as 4+3, 4+2, 4+3, 4+4) - it proceeds to repeat this once... AND THEN (at 2:03), it's followed up by 23/8 for two measures! (6+6+6+5 [eighth notes, so count twice as fast!] - or alternatively, 3+3+3+3+3+3+2+3). It's a doozy! :D
I just listened to 10:13 and it sounded familiar. I just realized that "Tanz" by threelines3 quotes this dave bruebeck tune. (It also has a lot of other timesig fun; highly recommend!)
Tbh vs Stardream from Kirby Planet Robobot is a really compelling example of 16/8. Like i feel like you have to be a special kind of brainpoisoned to *feel* the 16/8 sections as 4/4 since it's deliberately being contrasted to sections of very strong 4/4 in the same tempo. Admittedly however, all the transcriptions i could find are in 4/4 though I feel like it's less because it's not 16/8 and more because it'd save time over changing the time signature over and over lol. idk if comments auto filter links so search "【星のカービィ ロボボプラネット】｢VS.スタードリーム｣ ピアノアレンジ(楽譜付き) " by " さふぁいあたいてっく " for the best arrangement with a sheet on youtube. the section starting at 0:19 is a very clear 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 and 0:43 is the beginning of a 4/4 section.
7:02 *insert that meme where an astronaut looking at earth and the other astronaut is behind him pointing a gun at him: "wait, it's all 4/4?" "Always has been."
I'm not really familiar with Nintendo games so I don't know this particular mission, and I very rarely listen to ambient, but the Caverns 1 description does feel very spot-on. It's kinda fascinating how music abandoning form and established conventions leads to these vast, droning, creepy, space-y, otherworldly landscapes. It's kinda similar to how chaotic timings are often used for boss battles, the lack of structure in either direction is just so unsettling to our brains. The random mis-timed noises added to ambient almost make you feel like you're not alone, in a bad way. It builds so much tension. Reminded me of this space-themed project called Saturn Form Essence that I found recently, everything is recorded with 100% analog gear, and even includes old Soviet radio gear, no PC or digital manipulation in any way. Together with the space theme of their cover art, it really makes the music feel like it belongs in a horror, even though there is nothing actually scary included in it.
In Splatoon 3's Salmon Run mode, there's a theme that plays during specific event / night waves called Frothy Waters Frothy Waters adds an additional eighth note after each bar after transitioning from 4/4 to 10/8, and it keeps adding an additional beat until it reaches 25/8. Afterwards, it goes to 6/8, then one bar of 10/8, then goes to 7/8. And after that, it repeats the same gimmick of adding an eighth note to every bar, but also increases in tempo. I don't think this should justify both 20/8(or 16) and 25/8(or 16) being taken off the bounty board of time signatures, since it doesn't stay on a constant time signature.
If you ever make another one of these videos, I think Frothy Watters from Splatoon 3 could be interesting to take a look at Although this song isn't really in one time signature, it keeps extending how long each bar is by one beat, which is still quite cool I also believe it covers the 20/16
Assuming I did the math correctly, Marx's Theme couldn't have a consistent time signature below 191/4, which is the entire loop of the song. 191 is a prime number, so it couldn't divide down evenly, even if you tried to force the song to change sections in the middle of a measure. A lot of the song is in 3/4, though, and I think most of the other time signatures in the song only come about because it either adds or takes away a beat from 3/4.
5:11 I think the Abel Sister's shop theme in New Horizons fits the 12-123-123 pretty well, which ironically you played at 7:10. The chords accent the 12-*1*23-*1*23 so it doesn't sound like a 1&2&3&4.
I'd say something about Bellum's bossfight from Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. It's in 13/8 time and is counted 3 3 3 2 2. Subterranean Hell form Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow is in 7/4, 6/4, and 5/4 throughout the whole song. Ascend to Destiny from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is in 6/8, very fast tempo Results screen from Mariokart 7 is in 6/4 as a reference to mariokart 64 also i forget if this was said already in one of the previous videos but fishing frenzy from splatoon 2 and 3 is in some wacky time signature that i forget
To add to your point about 8/8 or 16/16, I think that "tyranny of 4/4" is what makes things so difficult. It's basically become a meme at this point that you can force almost anything into common time if you don't count it like a nerd, and a lot of songs in 8/8 or 16/16 that I've encountered have percussion that would work with a 4/4 pattern, with the main melodic lines being the ones to enforce that 3+3+2 pattern. I don't listen to a ton of prog, so my experience is a little limited, but even then I've only run into one pop song that forces me to think of it as 8/8. Another point - technically speaking, you could also divide 9/8 into 4+5 or 2+7; but I've only run into one song that did the former and have never encountered anything that uses the latter - not sure why. I hope some people in the comments have found a track that does that - it would be cool!
Heyo!! Thank you for another awesome video!! Seeing Groove Coaster make the list made me extremely happy; as an ex-percussionist and a current rhythm gamer, that example hit really close to home. If we're including rhythm games in our sample size, then I'd like to share two songs from my favorite rhythm game (Arcaea) that have kooky and extremely interesting time signature patterns! And I believe one of them includes a time signature on the bounty list too! Rhythm games are great places to explore for rare instances of musical theory. While musical theory (like time signatures, tempo, etc) in other video games is used to instill emotion and highlight settings, musical theory in rhythm games plays a huge role in setting difficulty levels for songs. So composers can use time signatures that are hard to count in order to innately raise the difficulty! That's why I respected your point about Apocalypse of FM Tone Generator. The 19/16 time signature makes this song harder to count, which in turn makes it a song with a higher difficulty than others! Funny how both final boss songs in rhythm games and RPG/other games share this tendency to use unique/prime time signatures. But anyway! The first song I want to share is 7thSense by Sakuzyo! This song was originally in the rhythm game Maimai, and was added to Arcaea in early 2021. If my counting is correct (which it could very not be LOL), this song is primarily in the time signature 7/4! A really unique signature and a real treat to play. Surprisingly though, I don't think this song includes 28/16, or a groove that uses twenty-eight beats (the brief section of the song right after the main 'chorus' might be in 28/something, but I thought it was a bit of a stretch. Unlucky!). Instead, I would argue that around 54 seconds into the song, the 7/4 buildup that had a strong quarter note drive goes into an intense 20/16 section! While playing this part, I count it as 3+3+3+3+2+2+2+2. To me, the initial bars of 3 makes it sound like the song is struggling to progress, and the bars of two is the song rushing forward before getting stuck again. It's a really neat groove! The second song I want to share is Tiferet by xi ft. Sta! I'm actually not sure if the song was made for the rhythm game Tone Sphere, or if it was released as a part of an album first, and then added to the game afterwards. Either way, this song was added to Arcaea too, and it's my absolute favorite song to play in the game. I don't think this song has any crazy main grooves with unique time signatures; the main "chorus" of the song is in 4/4, and there's a 5/8 section in between the two choruses at a point. But everything else... I won't spoil the surprise. I hope you enjoy counting this song as much as I did! Thank you again for making these funny and educational music theory videos! I've been showing these to my friends and they are showing interest in learning how to make music!! Hype! 😄
after watching part 1 of this video, I noticed a song I frequently listen to, Yellowcard - Breathing, is in 8/8 with a 3+3+2 pattern. (after watching part 1 I really started listening to time signatures in music more)
An interesting mixed meter song is Frothy Waters from Splatoon 3, which changes time signature every measure to the last time signature +1, by just adding an extra eighth note to a repeating figure in the main motif
a good example of 8/8 3+2+3 is credits by frums (technically a video game song if you count adofai), in the "verses" (i use verses in quotations because it's just the part that isn't the main section) it uses a 3+2+3 groove that is outlined by a 2+1+2+3 breakbeat. pretty cool imo
8:05 interesting distiction they are both accurate but the differnece in percision. cause I stuggle to hear the beat in a 4/4 time esspecially with the metronome because of the notes being played I don't hear four spaced quarter noted I hear quarter, quarter, quater, eigth, eitgh in the how to play song but that's cause I'm struggling to isolate beat from meter
fair point music notation as a whole is a soft science such as trying to understand the artist's meaning and purpose to make a piece. it's interesting and neat to make that connection. but uliately it's subjective even to that artist. same is true for books as well. the search to find meaning and themes from music books and art will ultimately be your interperetation of the media in question. so music notation is kinda like a trope or archtype in stories or symbolism
My take, and what feels right for me - As long as I can put the subdivisions in a repeating pattern to form a bigger time signature, then that's good enough for me!
For example, the 29/8 does feel pretty weak to me too, but there is just something slightly unsettling cause if the 3 missing beats - So I think 29/8 does fit, even if just slightly better.
Fun fact in the elden ring final battle theme, the second movement of the song when the choir leads it (aka when you fight the elden beast) the song changes from a strong 2/4 into a laid back yet very powerful 9/4 feel. 👍
the channel "lets talk about mathrock" made a video called "compound meters" where he plays with some permutations of 8/8, mathrock in general does it alot also, meshuggah and peripheyr writes most of their songs in 4/4 mixed with different patterns of 8/8 like bleed being the most popular example, crash and snare goes 4/4, while kicks, guitar and bass is doing 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 1 (triplet one triplet one) in 16th triplets and one 8th note if im not mistaken
19:59 WAIT, THAT SONG'S FROM DEATH NOTE?!!! I thought it was a generic stock song! Edit: It is a stock song and they just used it in Death Note ( Don't you think they would compose original music for a popular anime?)
@@CadenceHira The part you showed sounds to me like a (legally distinct) knock off of Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield which is used, covered and iterated on so much that it maybe reads to many as generic I don't know
2+3+3 is a relatively common rhythmic pattern in drum and bass music. only example i can think of off the top of my head is “reiteration” by au5 at the 1:30 mark. but i know ive been to a few shows where the artist will switch up their song to follow this pattern
The chorus from Willow Smith Symptom of Life, to me feels as 8/8. A compound time signature version of 4/4, just as 6/8. There is a binary feel to it, not 4 distinct beats, but two, just like 6/8, but instead subdivided in 4.
Another interesting thing about that song is that it uses 7/4 during the verse. In the verse it alternates between two approaches of 7/4, using it like a 12/8 groove but adding 2 eighth notes at the end, like 3+3+3+5. It also has a bridge/pre-chorus section with some much weirder subdivisions which seem to follow into the next measure, like 14/4: 3+5+2+4. The 4/4 or 8/8 chorus serves as a resolution to the unnerving instability of the verse. Notice how the chords become much more conventional as well. I love how much thought went into this song in writing.
The Brinstar Underground theme from Super Metroid is in 8/8, but its split into a group of 3/8 and 5/8 (yeah i know the melody splits it into 332, but you wont know that until the melody actually starts)
Bulgaria has an entire dance and genre based on the 9/8 signature, it's called "Daychovo horo". Horo is a very common dance here with MANY variations. Daychovo horo originates from the north regions near the danube river and border with romania. It can sometimes be in 9/16ths too. It's also really interesting because its a circle dance, people gather around in a circle and hold hands while dancing it. There's videos of it on youtube if you're interested.
I've been talking about Caverns 1 for YEARS. It's so good and even more impressive considering that the "song" it remixes was just computerized beeps, so I popped off when I saw it was first in the list!
I think 16/16 is how people (mostly ElectroBOOM) managed to lump “take five” into a 4/4-ish feel. They give it an extra two syncopated beats before the last two beats in the measure to extend it into 8/4, but it really feels more like 16/16
My favorite example of 8/4 with the group of 2 at the beginning is that of Cauldron Keep from Banjo-Tooie. Most pronounced at the beginning, the song is mostly built around alternating groups of 5 and 3 beats.
Bug Fables has a nice 23/8 (2+2+2+2+3+2+2+2+3+3) groove in most of the sections of the "Oh No! WASPS!!" theme. Funny thing though, I've always felt it as a alternating time signature between 11/8 and 12/8, but seeing as this video treated those kind of time signatures as a longer groove with bigger numbers on top so it makes sense to call this example also 23/8. Just goes to show how the feel of the time signature can be really subjective! Oh and gr8 video m8, I rank it 4/4
Alright, I think I finally had a moment of epiphany. Since watching the Part 1 video, and while watching this one, a few times I wondered, "Why bother notating this as, for instance, 27/8, when you COULD just write it as a measure of 14/8 and then 13/8? I know some songs change time signature in the middle. I've even played a few of those." But then I suddenly got it. Even though I have an intermediate amount of experience with music, and playing a few instruments, I didn't get to the point of learning more advanced music theory. On the other hand, I went to university to learn writing, so I DID learn a lot about the mechanics of writing and language. That's why the analogy that came to my mind was, "You would write a song in 27/8, instead of alternating phrases of 14/8 and 13/8, for the same reason you might write a long, complex sentence using semicolons; your words would still make sense, would still be correct, and would still be easy to comprehend if you just split them into multiple sentences; it just conveys a slightly different idea when you do, and you might lose some of the power behind your words if you interrupt their flow." So... yeah. I finally came to understand the rationale behind these time signatures, by likening them to sentence structure. Very nice. And thank you for leading me to this revelation.
The internet's fascination with 8/8 demonstrates to me that many people look at music theory as yet another opportunity to be "nerdy" and "geeky" with numbers, but without bothering to understand that those numbers are *representing* an aspect of a piece of music, not *encapsulating* the music itself. That is: the numbers only make sense when they say something about the music, but they AREN'T the music itself. 4/4 only means that there's some "fourness" going on in the rhythmic patterns, but it *doesn't* mean that you can't have accepts, or syncopation, or rhythmic displacement, or asymmetry within the bars! A "traditional" rock beat would have a kick on 1 and 3 and a snare on 2 and 4, but some rock beats have the second kick on the "and of 2"; so, instead of "kick, snare, kick, snare", you'd have "kick, snare-kick, ..., snare". Does that mean it's not 4/4? No! The fourness is still there, and probably maintained in the other instruments! That's just rhythmic displacement. When you hear a bossa nova beat that has a 3+3+2, or a 2+3+2 figure going on, you'll still hear a "dunnn, dunnn" bass going in twos. So it's *still* 2/4 or 4/4, only with a syncopated pattern on top. That doesn't make it 8/8! The twoness (or fourness) is still there, and the 3+3+2 is creating the rhythmic friction that helps create the interest in the pattern. It only helps to use 8/8 when the piece is SUPPOSED to feel asymmetrical and irregular, like Balkans music, for example. If you hear 3+3+2 but it makes total sense to put a 4/4 beat on it, it's not 8/8. But if the piece *loses its meaning* when you add a symmetrical beat, then it's not 4/4. One classic example of that is Blue Rondo à la Turk, by Dave Brubeck. When I first heard the song, I felt it as a traditional 9/8 beat (i.e. 3/4 with triplet feel), but with an interesting accent: "One and *a* | Two *and* a | *Three* and a". But then, I read more about the piece, and I realised that the Turkish musicians who inspired Brubeck DO NOT feel the rhythm like that. They feel it as four beats, in which the fourth is longer: "One! Two! Three! Four! ... and One! Two! Three Four! ... and One!". Then it clicked. I suppose this piece would have to be notated as 9/8, but it's *not* traditional composite time: it actually means 2+2+2+3, and it has to be beamed accordingly. So, it a piece is *actually* meant to be felt as "long beat, long beat, short beat", and not as a symmetrical beat with an asymmetrical figure on top, that's when 8/8 makes sense. Otherwise, you're just trying to be a nerdy smartass, like when people said that Hey Ya by Outkast is in 11/2 (dear god, why).
I've got one for the bounty board, and funnily enough, it's a variation on one of the tracks featured in this video. Every Ace Attorney game has two cross-examination tracks: Moderato and Allegro. The Allegro version is typically a higher-energy variation on the Moderato version, with an added B-section. In the case of Justice for All, the Allegro version starts out in the Moderato's 27/8 split into 14/8 + 13/8, but the B-section switches to 25/8 split into 13/8 + 12/8. This contributes to the sense of urgency as the trial reaches its climax and the witness starts melting down.
My favorite mixed meter piece has got to be 'Subterranean Hell' from Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow for the Nintendo DS. It starts out in 7, changes to 6, goes to 5 for the majority of the song, briefly visits 10, then returns to 6 for the end. I honestly could (and have!) listen(ed) to it on loop for hours while I'm playing games or doing other stuff. A lot of the music from the three DS Castlevania games (DoS, PoR, and OoE) is severely underrated in my opinion.
a song i find pretty interesting in terms of time signatures is Murderswarm from Terraria's Calamity mod. it starts out in whats usually notated as 3 measures of 7/8 and one measure of 9/8, although it also works well as one measure of 30/8. after a bit of that, it switches into 3 measures of 4/4 and 1 measure of 3/4, and then it goes to a straight 4/4 meter, with a final bit of 7/8 and 9/8 in order to loop back to the first part and yes, its a boss theme
"cars 2: lightning returns" got me so good
real
my brain short circuited, kinda forgot i was watching cadence "great value blueberries" hira for a second
@@baconlettucepotato69 cadence "great value blueberries" hira is perhaps the worst way I have ever been described thank you
@@CadenceHirabad description is the funniest description
@@CadenceHira you're welcome melody mistress
Marx's theme is actually a single bar of 330/8
YOUVE SOLVED IT
lol
Literally how this video feels lol
canon to me
Director: "There are a couple of things I want to work on towards the end. Everyone turn to bar 1."
the 18/8 terapagos fight is the most toby fox thing ever
Sounds more Touhou style to me
@@aeolianthecomposer you would never guess what's one of toby fox's biggest inspirations
@@madjester9844 Yeah, I'm pretty sure he even did a crossover with the Touhou composer once
love that this is how i find out that Toby Fox composed for pokemon S&V
same
when i heard the professor battle theme i just knew it HAD to be him lmao
He started out composing for SWSH too. I think they liked him and decided to keep him
this was pretty well advertised.
Just wait until you find out he snuck a leitmotif from his Homestuck mpreg rock opera into the official soundtrack for Sword and Shield
Love how you bring up the subjectivity of time signatures. I’ve always felt confused when musicians in my life spoke of them as so objective and innate.
The highest time sig I've ever seen was in "Entertain Me" by Armenian jazz pianist Tigran Hamasyan, which uses a staggering 256/16 time signature for two bars, lasting for about 25% of the song. The 256 notes are divided into 7 bars of 35/16 with a bar of 11/16 at the end. The 35/16 is divided into four sets of 5/16 and five sets of 3/16. The 11/16 bar is one set of five and one set of six. Later in the song it switches to 128/16, divided into three bars of 35 and one bar of 23. After that it switches to a completely insane 64/16 time signature with an absolutely ridiculous pattern, and if that wasn't enough it then layers a 4/4 polyrhythm on top of that. Truly bonkers if you ask me.
umm 4:4 polyrythm??
@@normanj4007 being together with the odd time signatures is what makes it a polyrhythm, because there are two signatures being played at the same time. for example, 4/4 and 3/4 together would be 4 against 3
@@normanj4007 basically a 64/16 beat on top of a 4/4 beat, but because the 64/16 is divided so strangely, it still counts as a polyrhythm. I probably could have worded that better, to be honest.
Something makes me think it was designed to be that way...
@@rickhapstley3866 no it wouldn't, the beats are the same length.
WE’RE SO BACK
WE’RE SO BACK
IT'S SO OVER
BROS…
Pretty sure that's in 4/4 maybe 2/2, but I get the confusion, as it's built around triplets.
we’re so back… splatoon reference
Two songs come to mind here:
1 - There's an "Allegro" variant of the JFA Examination theme, which adds a B section that's in 25 (3+3+3+2+2+3+3+3+3) rather than 27. (The A section is still in 27.)
2 - "Oh no! WASPS!!" from Bug Fables is one of the most rhythmically unusual songs I've ever heard in an RPG, due to its leaning very hard into Balkan-style rhythms,. Assuming I can count, the intro and A section are in 23 (2+2+2+2+3+2+2+2+3+3, or 11+12), the B section seems to be 29 (2+2+3+2+2+3+2+2+2+2+2+2+3, or 7+7+8+7) followed by 28 (2+2+3+2+2+3+2+2+2+2+3+3, or 7+7+8+6), and then there's a 4/4 guitar solo section for good measure.
Bug Fables mentioned. Seriously tho, this game has a REALLY good ost.
yoooo i mentioned Oh No! WASPS!!! in the comments of the last video! Bug fables mentioned ❤
I’ve heard that song way too many times getting world record to the point where I finally learned to tap my foot to it properly
2- never heard this before or seen any gameplay of Bug Fables, and yet I have to agree, this is rhythmically one of the most confusing songs I've ever heard (in an interesting way)
Animusic Seventh Alloy was made in a 7/4 7/4 7/4 8/4 pattern, 29/4
If you want a really really weird one, one of the Sumeru Battle Themes from Genshin Impact is in 54/8 or maybe alternating 33/8 with 21/8. It’s called Gilded Runner and it follows the Fibonacci number sequence.
i second this, unbelievably cool piece. genshin ost is insane
yess! that theme is so fascinating
Fibonacci sequence time signature? TOOL in Genshin confirmed
@@buhguh-r8gspiral out!
Love seeing another tool fan in the comments.
Samsung Washing Machine with Sadness and Sorrow on the Background is quite something.
Song of the Year
holy shit, Renko Usami
Ah yes, Cars 2: Lightning Returns
re 1/1, around 2:20 : phrases of (usually 2, 4, or 8) bars can be felt as such in most music, unless it's particularly downtempo. if you hear a song use a 3-bar or a 5-bar phrase, it'll have a distinct feel to it that honestly doesn't get explored enough (presumably because it's not expressed in the time signature, so we don't think about it)
Great example of this is Ruin Seeker from TUNIC. It's the credits theme that plays for the bad ending, and the 3-bar phrase makes it feel off without being super noticeable.
20:08
"And then I'll grab a potato chip... AND EAT IT!!!"
So glad to see more wacky time signature tunes -- and to see that Ace Attorney track on here! It's fun hearing your explanations, especially the thematically appropriate usage of 18 for Terapagos.
Another Ace Attorney-ish track with a weird set of time signatures (or a normal time signature with some really obnoxious syncopation?) is Ghost Trick's 4 Minutes Before Death theme. It tricks you into thinking it's plain old 4/4 with the synth pattern in the first two measures, but then when the bass & drums kick in, something feels off if you count it in 4/4. Until recently, I thought it was some rubato tempo shifting or I was just going crazy, but I realized that the synth pattern changes slightly and the bass lines up with alternating 17/16 and 15/16 -- 4+4+5+4, then 4+4+3+4. And to make things even MORE confusing, later on the composer layers the original 4/4 version of the synth riff over top of the 17/16,15/16 bass pattern. It's subtle enough and the drums are sparse enough that it can get away with feeling like "4/4 and you're imagining things"
Ooohh that is so fascinating! I knew there was something off about that theme every time I heard it, but I could never figure out what it was
Yeah when I tried recreating this track a while ago the drums and bass were so confusing with those parts. I thought the synth pattern changed between when the bass and drums come in and when they fade for a moment but it’s the same pattern for both parts. The drums and bass are what make it sound completely different
18:10 AAAAAA I WAS SO PLEASANTLY SURPRISED TO HEAR THIS POP UP!! i haven't thought about this song in maybe even a year now but i used have so much fun trying and failing to clap to it.. love ace attorney music
2 + 3 + 3 is the Smash Ultimate Results Screen music
that's TRUE
you know with all of the shmultimate footage i recorded i definitely should have noticed that lol
@@CadenceHira 3+3+3+3+2+2 is yoshi’s island bowser theme i think
re 10:27, my maths professor (Professor Stankova at UC Berkeley; she's absolutely goated) plays music videos before class while we enter. One day she played a bulgarian folk song called Kaval sviri and part of it had roughly the same 2-2-2-3 rhythm
As soon as I heard 9/8 Balkan music mentioned I was waiting for someone to mention Kaval Sviri, suuuuuch a great piece
i NEED u to talk about deluge dirge from splatoon 3- it starts at 12/8 and changes every measure up to 25/8, and then goes up to **5000 BPM.** all of the music from splatoon 3s salmon run is so fucking good, i also recommend listening to the songs that play during the big run event!!!
03:00 Oh yeah the track with the E.M.M.I. nois- wait a second! The E.M.M.I. were only introduced in Metroid Dread, but that definitely sounds like the E.M.M.I. noise!
As someone with limited music theory knowledge and practically no rhythm I find it fun to try and figure out the sub divisions for each time signature and then fail miserably. I don't understand how people manage to count this stuff but I find it hella impressive and I will continue to watch videos on oddly specific/obscure music theory that I don't understand
I feel the 3+3+2 and 3+3+3+3+2+2 grooves *extremely* strongly, like more strongly than any other groove in either this or the previous video. (And my reaction to the 4/4 analysis of those grooves was "What? That doesn't make any sense. You're just playing a totally different time signature over this clearly different groove.")
the wizzard lizzard joke with the odd time signatures was peak
12:37 i hope king gizzard isnt there to help his buddy the lizard wizard in fighting you. thatd be rough.
Cars 2 left me completely stunned, so happy you made a part 2 to this.
I’m freaking psychic, I paused at 19:47 because I remembered L’s theme and how I tried to figure out the time signature one time in my head and I started humming it, and then I unpause and see that it’s literally the next one
13:01 Why does this music go so hard when im using a water bug named terry to deal 5 damage and instantly die
7:02 I have a counter example: Touhou's "Theme of Eastern Story"'s main motif (which I hear as 3x6+1x4 -> 22/16) is used as a leitmotif in many other touhou songs (could not name an example, sorry), and often times has one of the bars of 6 chopped off -> 2x6+1x4 -> 16/16. Probably because the 3x6/2x6 sets up a certain expectation that we are in something like 6/8, that last bar of 4 feels like something's chopped of. I have this feeling even in the 2x6+1x4 making it not feel 4/4 at all.
16:26 Ah yes, repetition legitimizes
16:26 Ah yes, repetition legitimizes
16:26 Ah yes, repetition legitimizes
16:26 Ah yes, repetition legitimizes
16:26 Ah yes, repetition legitimizes
16:26 Ah yes, repetition legitimizes
5:22 me and my friends had a silly idea for a 16/16 division of 3 + 3 + 4 + 3 + 3
at the time, it sounded absolutely absurd but thinking back it was basically just 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 but slightly different lol
*4/12 is a thing; here me out.*
Percussion music loves polyrhythms and syncopation. Typically 16th notes are grouped into fours to follow the pulse of 4/4 or 3/4, but drum music (usually snare or hi-hat) often accents every third 16th. This pushes the rhythm ahead of the beat and adds a triplet feel.
In 3/4 you have twelve 16th notes. Accenting every third note gives you four accents for a 4:3 polyrhythm, which you could isolate as _four_ dotted-8th notes per measure of _twelve_ 16th notes. (Thus 4/12)
This polyrhythm often gets used in 4/4 as well, but because sixteen is not divisible by three, the last four 16th notes are often accented on two's, creating a 3+3+3+3+2+2 impulse (which could be notated as 16/16 or 4/12+2/8).
I've been playing music with this "on three's" accent pattern for years and I was always frustrated that there wasn't a word to describe it. It feels like triplets but it's not. "Triplet-like," "triplet-feel," and "psuedo-let" didn't cut it. It also didn't help that I saw it in 4/4 a lot more than 3/4 at first. (Probably because the groove is more funky in 4/4.) When I started playing a lot of songs with this 4:3 polyrhythm in 3/4 in my first year of college (and after watching your first video on weird time signatures) I realized the 4:3 in 3/4 could be expressed as 4/12.
Except it's actually 4/6. 😅 Or maybe a dotted-8th note does equal a 12th note? There's a reason I'm a music major and not a math major. But the feel of four beats over twelve 16th notes (especially without an instrument playing the 4er note base rhythm) shifts the feel of the tempo, like it's a sped up 4/4 with 12th note subdivisions. (I think _that's_ the value that my brain is instinctively assigning 12 to: the triplets that show up in 4/4, rather than the dotted-8th in 3/4.)
So maybe this rhythmic pattern is expressing 4/6, maybe it's 4/12, or maybe it's just a 4 : 12 polyrhythm and I'm overthinking it.
Your first example should be 12/16+4/16. As for triplet-based polyrhythm, writing in 12/12 might work but there's no universal agreement I think, and without writing a lot of 3s, it's probably better to just write the "16th note = dotted 16th note" symbol which is more agreed.
"Cars 2: Lightning Returns" 💀💀💀
An example of what I'd describe as 16/8 is the song Horizon from the Celeste mod Strawberry Jam, which has a 5+5+6 rhythm to it
ok that's a brain melter that I would say feels like 16 instead of 4
In there also exists 6+6+5.
exactly what i was thinking!! might be my favorite track from the mod and i loveeee that the rhythm is always keeping u on your toes
SJ experiments a lot with time signatures, Out of Time has a section that alternates rapidly between 3/4, 4/4 and 5/4 without much of an apparent pattern, and there's a couple songs that are in straight 5/4 like the amazing Symphony in the Dark. And then of course there's Shattersong where the gameplay itself revolves around the 7/8, 10/8 and 13/8 time signatures of the music, which gets expanded upon in the heartside with Shatter the Pantheon, which is based on a 3:5 polyrhythm
14:52 Bowser didn't appreciate you breaking the turtle theming.
Also, nice videos! I like your clarity and japes.
Times like these is when I'm glad that Kirby and the Forgotten Land's equivalent of the jukebox has an indicator for where the beats are - the Waddle Dees themselves. They vibe to the beat of the music and even speed up/slow down if the tempo of the track changes. This is especially helpful for tracks such as Hunted by the Beast (theme of the second-to-last boss of the main game and also a massive spoiler) where the music is... uh... interesting, let's just leave it at that.
0:01 Mom, that’s me. Awesome follow-up!
Also, my favorite example of 16/8 is some parts of Reach for the Summit from Celeste. Some of the background is in 3+3+3+3+2+2
time signature enthusiasts rise up 🗣🗣🗣 i was waiting to hear you talk more about nintendo music, some of my favorite video game tracks have unique time signatures :)
Depending on how loosely you want to define "video game", the infamous music from "CrazyBus" is probably as solid an example of a 1/x time signature as anything.
It neatly fits in 2/4 or 4/4. There's a video of a drummer playing along to it and it isn't hard for him to find a groove.
What key it's in on the other hand...
Well either that or it's just ???👁?/8 with the whole song as a single measure.
8:30 thank you so much for saying this, most music theory is always thought as dogmatic and when there's concepts that don't fit in, they try to shoehorn it in anyway, further conviluting an already confusing topic.
time signatures are for orchestras, drummers who are trying to wrap their heads around rudiments and nobody else.
Honestly, I have to agree with your assessment of 8/8 and 16/16 still feeling like quadruple time. I guess it doesn't help that I've been doing music nearly my whole life so when I hear unusual/difficult rhythms I always habitually figure out how to count them relative to a stable beat and then feel that beat, but it does make me perceive all of your 8/8 examples as just 4/4 and it takes some effort to feel the syncopation as the main subdivision.
Anyway, great video! Although I've been doing music for so long I was mostly classically trained so my experience is a lot stronger with the more common time signatures and your last video and this one were very insightful.
THANK YOU for talking about 2+2+2+3 9/8. It's one of my favorite time signatures in any music ever!
Your note about Terapagos's theme bring intentionally composed in 18 to reflect the 18 Pokemon types reminded me of something I thought of years ago. The legendary Clock Town theme from Majora's Mask is in 12/8, and I'm reasonably confident that was intentional because a clock's face has 12 numbers. Obviously nothing is guaranteed since 12/8 is a lot more common than 18/8 is, and so could be more likely to be accidental, but Koji Kondo is so intentional with his compositions that I'd be willing to bet that's why it is the way it is.
"Some easy listening bangers"
Now I'm just thinking about the dryer yelling at me to get off my butt
Essence of Metroid Prime, the second phase of the final boss track, has some spicy shifting (or mixed) time signatures!
YT Link to track:
th-cam.com/video/42A3uigYXsQ/w-d-xo.htmlsi=z_F94cMtyg5Ii_RC&t=1m41s
At 1:41, we have 28/4 - or 7/4, 6/4, 7/4, 8/4 when it's considered as mixed measures (I count the beats [quarter notes] as 4+3, 4+2, 4+3, 4+4) - it proceeds to repeat this once... AND THEN (at 2:03), it's followed up by 23/8 for two measures! (6+6+6+5 [eighth notes, so count twice as fast!] - or alternatively, 3+3+3+3+3+3+2+3). It's a doozy! :D
Two videos in and we’re still not talking about that Salmon Run time signature that can only be expressed as a formula, like x+1/4 or something
One of these days Nintendo is gonna make a boss theme you need calculus to notate
which song specifically?
@@Victinitotodilepro frothy waters
alright that would just be DEVIOUS
The chip bag death note reference almost flew over my head and I JUST watched death note
The final stage of Gradius IIi has a theme with a time signature of 25/16. “Mr.Smiley” from Sonic Adventure 2 goes 42/16 for one sextion
I just listened to 10:13 and it sounded familiar. I just realized that "Tanz" by threelines3 quotes this dave bruebeck tune. (It also has a lot of other timesig fun; highly recommend!)
Tbh vs Stardream from Kirby Planet Robobot is a really compelling example of 16/8. Like i feel like you have to be a special kind of brainpoisoned to *feel* the 16/8 sections as 4/4 since it's deliberately being contrasted to sections of very strong 4/4 in the same tempo. Admittedly however, all the transcriptions i could find are in 4/4 though I feel like it's less because it's not 16/8 and more because it'd save time over changing the time signature over and over lol.
idk if comments auto filter links so search
"【星のカービィ ロボボプラネット】｢VS.スタードリーム｣ ピアノアレンジ(楽譜付き) " by " さふぁいあたいてっく " for the best arrangement with a sheet on youtube. the section starting at 0:19 is a very clear 3 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 2 and 0:43 is the beginning of a 4/4 section.
7:02 *insert that meme where an astronaut looking at earth and the other astronaut is behind him pointing a gun at him:
"wait, it's all 4/4?"
"Always has been."
watching your videos has made me realize that I retain knowledge better when its being presented to me over gameplay. thank you 🙌
I'm not really familiar with Nintendo games so I don't know this particular mission, and I very rarely listen to ambient, but the Caverns 1 description does feel very spot-on. It's kinda fascinating how music abandoning form and established conventions leads to these vast, droning, creepy, space-y, otherworldly landscapes. It's kinda similar to how chaotic timings are often used for boss battles, the lack of structure in either direction is just so unsettling to our brains. The random mis-timed noises added to ambient almost make you feel like you're not alone, in a bad way. It builds so much tension. Reminded me of this space-themed project called Saturn Form Essence that I found recently, everything is recorded with 100% analog gear, and even includes old Soviet radio gear, no PC or digital manipulation in any way. Together with the space theme of their cover art, it really makes the music feel like it belongs in a horror, even though there is nothing actually scary included in it.
10:56 i initially processed this as "but it's unexpectedly cooking" and had to rewind
In Splatoon 3's Salmon Run mode, there's a theme that plays during specific event / night waves called Frothy Waters
Frothy Waters adds an additional eighth note after each bar after transitioning from 4/4 to 10/8, and it keeps adding an additional beat until it reaches 25/8. Afterwards, it goes to 6/8, then one bar of 10/8, then goes to 7/8. And after that, it repeats the same gimmick of adding an eighth note to every bar, but also increases in tempo.
I don't think this should justify both 20/8(or 16) and 25/8(or 16) being taken off the bounty board of time signatures, since it doesn't stay on a constant time signature.
If you ever make another one of these videos, I think Frothy Watters from Splatoon 3 could be interesting to take a look at
Although this song isn't really in one time signature, it keeps extending how long each bar is by one beat, which is still quite cool
I also believe it covers the 20/16
On my list! Will talk about it in a "Mixed Meter" video when I eventually return to time signatures lol
I just realised you worked on a song in a dance of fire and ice
end quote
a man of culture
Wait what!? Which one?
@@ariesunderground5936 world 7
True, I've noticed too
@@ariesunderground5936 World 7, Spin 2 Win
Assuming I did the math correctly, Marx's Theme couldn't have a consistent time signature below 191/4, which is the entire loop of the song. 191 is a prime number, so it couldn't divide down evenly, even if you tried to force the song to change sections in the middle of a measure.
A lot of the song is in 3/4, though, and I think most of the other time signatures in the song only come about because it either adds or takes away a beat from 3/4.
5:11 I think the Abel Sister's shop theme in New Horizons fits the 12-123-123 pretty well, which ironically you played at 7:10. The chords accent the 12-*1*23-*1*23 so it doesn't sound like a 1&2&3&4.
I'd say something about Bellum's bossfight from Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. It's in 13/8 time and is counted 3 3 3 2 2.
Subterranean Hell form Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow is in 7/4, 6/4, and 5/4 throughout the whole song.
Ascend to Destiny from Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is in 6/8, very fast tempo
Results screen from Mariokart 7 is in 6/4 as a reference to mariokart 64
also i forget if this was said already in one of the previous videos but fishing frenzy from splatoon 2 and 3 is in some wacky time signature that i forget
THE SEQUEL WE’VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR!!!
the washing machine... fuck yeah, u fucking get it
I'm just so happy Groove Coaster was even mentioned! What a neat find!
To add to your point about 8/8 or 16/16, I think that "tyranny of 4/4" is what makes things so difficult. It's basically become a meme at this point that you can force almost anything into common time if you don't count it like a nerd, and a lot of songs in 8/8 or 16/16 that I've encountered have percussion that would work with a 4/4 pattern, with the main melodic lines being the ones to enforce that 3+3+2 pattern. I don't listen to a ton of prog, so my experience is a little limited, but even then I've only run into one pop song that forces me to think of it as 8/8.
Another point - technically speaking, you could also divide 9/8 into 4+5 or 2+7; but I've only run into one song that did the former and have never encountered anything that uses the latter - not sure why. I hope some people in the comments have found a track that does that - it would be cool!
Heyo!! Thank you for another awesome video!! Seeing Groove Coaster make the list made me extremely happy; as an ex-percussionist and a current rhythm gamer, that example hit really close to home. If we're including rhythm games in our sample size, then I'd like to share two songs from my favorite rhythm game (Arcaea) that have kooky and extremely interesting time signature patterns! And I believe one of them includes a time signature on the bounty list too!
Rhythm games are great places to explore for rare instances of musical theory. While musical theory (like time signatures, tempo, etc) in other video games is used to instill emotion and highlight settings, musical theory in rhythm games plays a huge role in setting difficulty levels for songs. So composers can use time signatures that are hard to count in order to innately raise the difficulty! That's why I respected your point about Apocalypse of FM Tone Generator. The 19/16 time signature makes this song harder to count, which in turn makes it a song with a higher difficulty than others! Funny how both final boss songs in rhythm games and RPG/other games share this tendency to use unique/prime time signatures. But anyway!
The first song I want to share is 7thSense by Sakuzyo! This song was originally in the rhythm game Maimai, and was added to Arcaea in early 2021. If my counting is correct (which it could very not be LOL), this song is primarily in the time signature 7/4! A really unique signature and a real treat to play. Surprisingly though, I don't think this song includes 28/16, or a groove that uses twenty-eight beats (the brief section of the song right after the main 'chorus' might be in 28/something, but I thought it was a bit of a stretch. Unlucky!). Instead, I would argue that around 54 seconds into the song, the 7/4 buildup that had a strong quarter note drive goes into an intense 20/16 section! While playing this part, I count it as 3+3+3+3+2+2+2+2. To me, the initial bars of 3 makes it sound like the song is struggling to progress, and the bars of two is the song rushing forward before getting stuck again. It's a really neat groove!
The second song I want to share is Tiferet by xi ft. Sta! I'm actually not sure if the song was made for the rhythm game Tone Sphere, or if it was released as a part of an album first, and then added to the game afterwards. Either way, this song was added to Arcaea too, and it's my absolute favorite song to play in the game. I don't think this song has any crazy main grooves with unique time signatures; the main "chorus" of the song is in 4/4, and there's a 5/8 section in between the two choruses at a point. But everything else... I won't spoil the surprise. I hope you enjoy counting this song as much as I did!
Thank you again for making these funny and educational music theory videos! I've been showing these to my friends and they are showing interest in learning how to make music!! Hype! 😄
12:06 not gonna go into too much detail but this part is truly Enlightening
after watching part 1 of this video, I noticed a song I frequently listen to, Yellowcard - Breathing, is in 8/8 with a 3+3+2 pattern. (after watching part 1 I really started listening to time signatures in music more)
Been waiting for part two! 🥳
6:01 it can also be argued that masked dedede is in 16/16, but it's almost on a technicality
An interesting mixed meter song is Frothy Waters from Splatoon 3, which changes time signature every measure to the last time signature +1, by just adding an extra eighth note to a repeating figure in the main motif
a good example of 8/8 3+2+3 is credits by frums (technically a video game song if you count adofai), in the "verses" (i use verses in quotations because it's just the part that isn't the main section) it uses a 3+2+3 groove that is outlined by a 2+1+2+3 breakbeat. pretty cool imo
8:05 interesting distiction they are both accurate but the differnece in percision. cause I stuggle to hear the beat in a 4/4 time esspecially with the metronome because of the notes being played I don't hear four spaced quarter noted I hear quarter, quarter, quater, eigth, eitgh in the how to play song but that's cause I'm struggling to isolate beat from meter
fair point music notation as a whole is a soft science such as trying to understand the artist's meaning and purpose to make a piece. it's interesting and neat to make that connection. but uliately it's subjective even to that artist. same is true for books as well. the search to find meaning and themes from music books and art will ultimately be your interperetation of the media in question. so music notation is kinda like a trope or archtype in stories or symbolism
My take, and what feels right for me - As long as I can put the subdivisions in a repeating pattern to form a bigger time signature, then that's good enough for me!
For example, the 29/8 does feel pretty weak to me too, but there is just something slightly unsettling cause if the 3 missing beats - So I think 29/8 does fit, even if just slightly better.
All these transitions between tunes are incredible. Great job!
Fun fact in the elden ring final battle theme, the second movement of the song when the choir leads it (aka when you fight the elden beast) the song changes from a strong 2/4 into a laid back yet very powerful 9/4 feel. 👍
the channel "lets talk about mathrock" made a video called "compound meters" where he plays with some permutations of 8/8, mathrock in general does it alot
also, meshuggah and peripheyr writes most of their songs in 4/4 mixed with different patterns of 8/8
like bleed being the most popular example, crash and snare goes 4/4, while kicks, guitar and bass is doing 1 2 3 1 1 2 3 1 (triplet one triplet one) in 16th triplets and one 8th note if im not mistaken
19:59 WAIT, THAT SONG'S FROM DEATH NOTE?!!! I thought it was a generic stock song!
Edit: It is a stock song and they just used it in Death Note ( Don't you think they would compose original music for a popular anime?)
It is a generic stock song that was also used in death note.
as far as I'm aware it's an original composition from Death Note
@@CadenceHira The part you showed sounds to me like a (legally distinct) knock off of Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield which is used, covered and iterated on so much that it maybe reads to many as generic I don't know
Cars 2: Lighting Returns was a work of art.
2+3+3 is a relatively common rhythmic pattern in drum and bass music. only example i can think of off the top of my head is “reiteration” by au5 at the 1:30 mark. but i know ive been to a few shows where the artist will switch up their song to follow this pattern
this is my new favorite channel. 👏
19:49 it's funy because i was thinking of tubular bells there but apparently the knockoff version does it too xD
liked the video just for that shot of you eating potato chips with your left hand and playing piano with ur right haha
The chorus from Willow Smith Symptom of Life, to me feels as 8/8. A compound time signature version of 4/4, just as 6/8. There is a binary feel to it, not 4 distinct beats, but two, just like 6/8, but instead subdivided in 4.
Another interesting thing about that song is that it uses 7/4 during the verse. In the verse it alternates between two approaches of 7/4, using it like a 12/8 groove but adding 2 eighth notes at the end, like 3+3+3+5. It also has a bridge/pre-chorus section with some much weirder subdivisions which seem to follow into the next measure, like 14/4: 3+5+2+4. The 4/4 or 8/8 chorus serves as a resolution to the unnerving instability of the verse. Notice how the chords become much more conventional as well.
I love how much thought went into this song in writing.
The Brinstar Underground theme from Super Metroid is in 8/8, but its split into a group of 3/8 and 5/8 (yeah i know the melody splits it into 332, but you wont know that until the melody actually starts)
Bulgaria has an entire dance and genre based on the 9/8 signature, it's called "Daychovo horo". Horo is a very common dance here with MANY variations. Daychovo horo originates from the north regions near the danube river and border with romania. It can sometimes be in 9/16ths too. It's also really interesting because its a circle dance, people gather around in a circle and hold hands while dancing it. There's videos of it on youtube if you're interested.
5:46 it was at this moment that i realized,, doctor from homestuck isn’t in 4/4
edit: never mind
I've been talking about Caverns 1 for YEARS. It's so good and even more impressive considering that the "song" it remixes was just computerized beeps, so I popped off when I saw it was first in the list!
I think 16/16 is how people (mostly ElectroBOOM) managed to lump “take five” into a 4/4-ish feel. They give it an extra two syncopated beats before the last two beats in the measure to extend it into 8/4, but it really feels more like 16/16
My favorite example of 8/4 with the group of 2 at the beginning is that of Cauldron Keep from Banjo-Tooie. Most pronounced at the beginning, the song is mostly built around alternating groups of 5 and 3 beats.
Bug Fables has a nice 23/8 (2+2+2+2+3+2+2+2+3+3) groove in most of the sections of the "Oh No! WASPS!!" theme. Funny thing though, I've always felt it as a alternating time signature between 11/8 and 12/8, but seeing as this video treated those kind of time signatures as a longer groove with bigger numbers on top so it makes sense to call this example also 23/8. Just goes to show how the feel of the time signature can be really subjective!
Oh and gr8 video m8, I rank it 4/4
Alright, I think I finally had a moment of epiphany. Since watching the Part 1 video, and while watching this one, a few times I wondered, "Why bother notating this as, for instance, 27/8, when you COULD just write it as a measure of 14/8 and then 13/8? I know some songs change time signature in the middle. I've even played a few of those." But then I suddenly got it.
Even though I have an intermediate amount of experience with music, and playing a few instruments, I didn't get to the point of learning more advanced music theory. On the other hand, I went to university to learn writing, so I DID learn a lot about the mechanics of writing and language. That's why the analogy that came to my mind was, "You would write a song in 27/8, instead of alternating phrases of 14/8 and 13/8, for the same reason you might write a long, complex sentence using semicolons; your words would still make sense, would still be correct, and would still be easy to comprehend if you just split them into multiple sentences; it just conveys a slightly different idea when you do, and you might lose some of the power behind your words if you interrupt their flow."
So... yeah. I finally came to understand the rationale behind these time signatures, by likening them to sentence structure. Very nice. And thank you for leading me to this revelation.
The internet's fascination with 8/8 demonstrates to me that many people look at music theory as yet another opportunity to be "nerdy" and "geeky" with numbers, but without bothering to understand that those numbers are *representing* an aspect of a piece of music, not *encapsulating* the music itself. That is: the numbers only make sense when they say something about the music, but they AREN'T the music itself.
4/4 only means that there's some "fourness" going on in the rhythmic patterns, but it *doesn't* mean that you can't have accepts, or syncopation, or rhythmic displacement, or asymmetry within the bars! A "traditional" rock beat would have a kick on 1 and 3 and a snare on 2 and 4, but some rock beats have the second kick on the "and of 2"; so, instead of "kick, snare, kick, snare", you'd have "kick, snare-kick, ..., snare". Does that mean it's not 4/4? No! The fourness is still there, and probably maintained in the other instruments! That's just rhythmic displacement.
When you hear a bossa nova beat that has a 3+3+2, or a 2+3+2 figure going on, you'll still hear a "dunnn, dunnn" bass going in twos. So it's *still* 2/4 or 4/4, only with a syncopated pattern on top. That doesn't make it 8/8! The twoness (or fourness) is still there, and the 3+3+2 is creating the rhythmic friction that helps create the interest in the pattern.
It only helps to use 8/8 when the piece is SUPPOSED to feel asymmetrical and irregular, like Balkans music, for example. If you hear 3+3+2 but it makes total sense to put a 4/4 beat on it, it's not 8/8. But if the piece *loses its meaning* when you add a symmetrical beat, then it's not 4/4. One classic example of that is Blue Rondo à la Turk, by Dave Brubeck. When I first heard the song, I felt it as a traditional 9/8 beat (i.e. 3/4 with triplet feel), but with an interesting accent: "One and *a* | Two *and* a | *Three* and a". But then, I read more about the piece, and I realised that the Turkish musicians who inspired Brubeck DO NOT feel the rhythm like that. They feel it as four beats, in which the fourth is longer: "One! Two! Three! Four! ... and One! Two! Three Four! ... and One!". Then it clicked. I suppose this piece would have to be notated as 9/8, but it's *not* traditional composite time: it actually means 2+2+2+3, and it has to be beamed accordingly.
So, it a piece is *actually* meant to be felt as "long beat, long beat, short beat", and not as a symmetrical beat with an asymmetrical figure on top, that's when 8/8 makes sense. Otherwise, you're just trying to be a nerdy smartass, like when people said that Hey Ya by Outkast is in 11/2 (dear god, why).
I also thought of 16/16 as 3-3-3-3-3-1 as in thousand march from pizza tower. I know it's rare, but it's an interesting possibility
I've got one for the bounty board, and funnily enough, it's a variation on one of the tracks featured in this video. Every Ace Attorney game has two cross-examination tracks: Moderato and Allegro. The Allegro version is typically a higher-energy variation on the Moderato version, with an added B-section. In the case of Justice for All, the Allegro version starts out in the Moderato's 27/8 split into 14/8 + 13/8, but the B-section switches to 25/8 split into 13/8 + 12/8. This contributes to the sense of urgency as the trial reaches its climax and the witness starts melting down.
16:50 had me rolling on the floor
THE WASHING MACHINE JINGLE GOT ME
5:56 the basis to the best diss track of all time
My favorite mixed meter piece has got to be 'Subterranean Hell' from Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow for the Nintendo DS.
It starts out in 7, changes to 6, goes to 5 for the majority of the song, briefly visits 10, then returns to 6 for the end.
I honestly could (and have!) listen(ed) to it on loop for hours while I'm playing games or doing other stuff.
A lot of the music from the three DS Castlevania games (DoS, PoR, and OoE) is severely underrated in my opinion.
BG3 reference makes me so happy. Also you’re pretty good at smash.
please don’t stop making these videos
I've never seen anyone talk about this but the Miitopia Neksdor desert theme is in 11/4 (and still very groovy)
a song i find pretty interesting in terms of time signatures is Murderswarm from Terraria's Calamity mod. it starts out in whats usually notated as 3 measures of 7/8 and one measure of 9/8, although it also works well as one measure of 30/8. after a bit of that, it switches into 3 measures of 4/4 and 1 measure of 3/4, and then it goes to a straight 4/4 meter, with a final bit of 7/8 and 9/8 in order to loop back to the first part
and yes, its a boss theme