In central Florida, cost me $86 to run in the entire 2020. The old unit cost me nearly $400 the previous year. Not only did I save a significant amount to heat water, I also increased the capacity from 50 gallons to 80 gallons. It was a win for me... (self installed too)
@@janfier The Econet app has graphs and usage reports for days, weeks, months and year. Times the amount by the prevailing usage rate. If your rate changes throughout the day, you probably won't get a good read unless you program it to only run during the cheapest usage times.
I installed one of these in a friend's house down in Iowa, he loves it!! Keeps the humidity in his unfinished basement down so no need for a dedicated dehumidifier.
My suggestion is duct the cool air outside if you don’t want it inside. Really simple to duct it. You can also put a two way damper in your duct work to use the cool air in summer and open the damper to the outside vent side in the winter when you don’t want the cool air.
Jack, thanks for the comment and the idea. Your suggestion makes sense, for my specific case I decided against doing that. Here's a video on venting this unit th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment ! Mike
if it is cold outside then you just send cold air outside to have cold air sucked into house to replace that air seems these would only make sense in hot climates.
@@ranger178 You should have two vents, sucking air from outside and blowing the colder air back inside plus not tax the heating system by cooling inside air. This would equalize pressure and not cause extra air exchange with the outside. In the summer, vent to inside to acts as extra free air conditioning. But frankly these units sve so much electricity, it is probably not worth the bother, And if installed in the basement, the extra dehumidification year round would help prevent mold and mildew.
An instant rebate from Central Hudson made the price $678 in Nov 2019 at Home Depot for this item. Installation cost $588 (which also included removing the existing water heater and condensate pump) for a total cost of $1266. Lives in the unfinished part of the basement with an oil furnace so cooling is a non-issue. Set to 125 degrees in energy saving mode and have never run out of hot water! Electric savings will pay total price in 2021.
I initially had the same problem you had with the cold basement. The fixed that problem by venting the exhaust air outside, which hugely fixed the cold basement problem. During the summertime, i disconnect the vent so the cold air vent into the basement to help dehumidify the air. Here in MA, they offer a $600 rebate for my specific unit. My initial cost was $1200 and after the rebate, the unit only cost me $600 which is about the same as a regular electric water heater. I also run my unit on a scheduler also, which greatly increased my savings.
I'm glad that worked out for you ! Thanks for watching, thanks for the idea ! I was planning on venting outside but for my situation I don't believe that's gonna work. Appreciate the comment ! Video on venting in case interested- th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Thanks Mike
Nice video a little long. Heres a few ideas. 1) Create ducting to move less dense air (warmer air closer to the ceiling) down into the intake (top of your HWH). 2) Exhaust cooler air coming out of the side through an insulated pipe venting to the outside. Check angle to make sure air that might be condensing is running toward the exit not toward the HWH. 3) During spring and summer you can basically reverse this giving you free A/C. I live in Texas and I pull from the hot attic and vent into the house. In the winter the air is vented into the garage. I keep water at 130 and it never runs out and have knocked a solid 12-18% off my electric bill a month.
Appreciate your video explanation very good and learning to use it correctly. I instruct students and contractors in HVAC. You only need to vent the cold air outside to solve the problem, and you are definitely able to do it . For some of my customers I vent into a foam instalation walk in for wine , vegetables , fruit ,etc. year round. Finally these units can be installed on the first or second floor near shower area ( laundry room in my second floor) for master bath and common bath. Again great job!!!!
I installed one of these a few years back myself. Unfortunately, it didn't come with an app. There was a wifi module that was several hundred dollars extra, and still no app with that, it basically just allowed a water detection alarm during a leak. Glad to hear they fixed that. Because the high efficiency mode is useless without being able to manually schedule the temperature. Like you, the water was always luke warm. It works great in high demand mode though which ironically was the customer support recommendation, just run it in high demand she said. We are in Texas, and what some people do is put a duct on the output of the unit that splits off to outdoors and indoors, and you baffle off indoors during winter and outdoors during summer.
I think your mistake was choosing too small a unit. I picked the 80 gallon (for a 4 person household). Secondly, perhaps the better option for you is to vent the unit outside in winter months so that the cold air is not being pumped into your room. I exhaust mine into a server rack to keep all my AV equipment cool and that more than takes care of the problem, in fact by time the air leaves the top of the rack it's generally at room temp.
I agree. We installed a 40 gal, because of the price and that's the size we had before, and it works fine in high demand mode for 4, but we probably could have run heat pump mode only with the 80 gal. All cost tradeoffs I guess
Ducting to a place I want to be cooler isn't an option for but could work for others. Here a video on ducting th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Thanks for watching ! Mike
I’m considering buying this for my house..I’m replacing a water heater and I’m thinking that going to 65 or 80 gals should help with issues like running out of hot water..I’m also considering installing this in my garage instead of the closet the old heater is currently in. I don’t care as much about the garage being cool in the winter..I’m in the north also.
Great information, though I’ve seen higher cost savings in other videos, your analysis seems very right. As far as the cooling issue, I saw one case where one installer installed a two way output vent. One way it vent the output to the outdoors during the winter months, then indoors during the heat of the warmer summer months. Seemed like a ideal resolution to me.
Brian, I had the same plan but changed that after some research, I suggest before you go through the trouble of venting your unit you watch this. th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Thanks again for watching, Mike
I installed an AO SMITH 50 gallon when I purchased a foreclosure in 2019. My home is all electric and it was installed in a nice sized utility room in our basement. Our electric bill is only 65.00 in months where HVAC is not needed so I would call this a success. In addition to installing this I found low Flo (1.5 bpm) shower heads. My cost to install was $600.00 after utility rebates that applied which was only 100.00 more than a standard. One additional thing I was able do was to dump the dryer vent in this room during the cooler months. I have kept a watch on the humidity in this room and have found it to be kept at 60% in effect recycling the energy that would have been expelled from the home not to mention the negative pressure and drafts that a dryer creates while running.
You might consider installing a mixing valve so that the water temp delivered to your fixtures stays constant despite the change in tank temp. Then you wouldn't tell about the setback. You still benefit from the greater capacity with the higher tank temp but have no scalding risk. Also called a tempering valve.
And remember the efficiency of the heat pump varies with the temp difference between the air and the water. Keeping this temp difference low saves the most so ke Ed ping water Temps just high enough so you have enough hot water will maximize savings
I did exactly that and it works great. You can have a 50 gallon unit simulate an 80 gallon by raising the hybrid temp and have the mixing valve combine it to the lower temp.
I bought this water heater th-cam.com/users/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
I had a natural gas On Demand water heater for 15 years. For the cost of a dehumidifier you get hot water when only using the Heat Pump. The cool air is dry air, which you could duct upstairs or outside. We love it.
One thing that I did not see you account for: In summer you're paying to cool your house down. If you can duct the cold exhaust into the living area, every BTU of cooling you dump there, is a BTU you don't have to pay for, so you can view it as paying for the same cooling you would anyways, and getting free hot water as a byproduct, or you can view it as paying for hot water and getting free cooling, in any case you save twice, once because heating water with a heat pump is 4 times cheaper that resistive electricity and 2 because you get cold/dry air. Additionally I personally needed to run a dehumidifier during winter but because this does the same job now I don't have to, so again I'm getting double savings in winter as well.
I installed my Rheem in the garage here in Portland, Oregon. In the Summer I leave the garage door open to my house so we get the benefits of the cool air and in the Winter the door is left closed and the garage remains chilly for the cold food I store in there (root vegetables and fruit). I leave the temperature at 120 for best savings since I have the larger capacity model and we never run out of hot water.
Thanks for the info and I appreciate to see the KW savings - very helpful. As for the cold air into the basement the easy answer is to vent it to the outside, just like one does with the dryer etc. I talked to an installer and it seems very easy and inexpensive to do. I was having the same concern since I leave in NY and the venting is the easy solution. I think this year I will be ordering an 80 gallon to replace my current 15 yr old 80-gal electric on (which surprisingly is still working well but I like the savings idea and not to have to replace it as an emergency one of these days lol). Thanks again for helping me with the decision based on savings.
Hi - thanks for watching, agree on the venting but before you do vent outside i would watch this. Just as a heads-up. th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Matt on the channel Build just did a similar comparison on hybrid vs your standard water heater. Comparing the cost savings and if it is worth the cost. His channel Build is the "go to channel" for me and I believe his channel does a great job. Although he and his channel has more experience and access to information you don't have and a team to help him you information and presentation was in my opinion far better for what I was looking for. Am considering installing a new water heater and so glad you put this video up. It was just what I was looking for presented in and outstanding format that I could clearly follow. So thanks for taking the time in making this video.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a nice comment ! I look up to Matt Risinger , so the comparison is flattering, it really is. I'm trying to help people and i hope i helped you ! Have a great day because you made my day a little better. Thanks again, Mike
I live in Minnesota so thank you for this video because I've been looking at installing an electric heat pump / resistance water heater and I was very curious about it cooling down the rooms in my basement. So this video did help. In answer to your question about why not just stay with a gas water heater, the answer is because we have to stop using all gas products. I was astonished the other day to find out that just my house alone and my water heater, which is all I have for gas in my house at this time, put more than a ton of carbon into the air every year. That blows my mind. So I'm on a mission to eliminate all of my gas appliances. In my opinion every house in this country and around the world needs to eliminate all gas products and the sooner the better. Thank you
You can also install a duct that vents to the outside or someplace that you don't care about with possibly a damper so that you can get 'free' air conditioning in the summer.
I purchased the 80 Gal model about two years ago. Its my wife and I, I oversized on purpose since a heat pump is much slower recovery. I am in the south so we love it. If your in a cold climate, I would not recommend. In full heat pump mode, I measured 1.7 Amps of load on 220v. That is crazy low. I have a walk out basement with a small garage integrated where the water heater is located. When I built the house I put 8" vent thru the wall for winter use. If used in the correct climate and installed with options to vent, its free air conditioner to the basement in the summer. Noise level is 2 or 3 times a refrigerator. Would not want it near any sitting area, kitchen etc. It runs for hours and hours. But it is just sipping electric. The noise is not a problem for us.
I installed one of these to replace a perfectly fine gas water heater. The energy guide on this unit says it will cost $104 per year based on 12 cents per KW, which is what I pay. Gas water heater said $263 per year assuming gas at $1.09 per therm. My gas it $1.61 per therm. so my projected cost is more like $385 per year. Seemed like a no-brainer. Actual KW used, measured by the phone app is actually trending to about $400 per year based on two weeks of usage. I live in Sacramento. It almost never freezes here, but it is coldest part of year. Performance does not equal gas unit and extremely doubtful that it will save any money. I definitely would not do it again, if I had the option. Plus, the garage is REALLY cold. In the summer, that will be nice, but not so much in the winter. It is also noisy. You can hear it running in the bedroom next to the garage, where it is located. Bottom line: if you have a gas option, stick with gas.
Hey John. If you are in Sacramento you have SMUD and they have the best prices in the state. It is all about scheduling your water heater to run during the low price part of the day and skipping the peak. I'd bet good scheduling would help because I'd also guess you have a mixing valve and got a rebate when you installed it. It took me a few months to dial in my unit just like it did for Family DIY. The other reason to do this is that is avoids almost 12 tonnes of carbon pollution (when switching from natural gas) over a 13 year life. FYI - it takes 40 years for 1 valley oak to absorb 2.5 tonnes of carbon in Sacramento. Stick with it John.
My heat pump(hybrid) water heater seems like a good investment. I guess I’ll know better at the 10 yr mark. We are a two person household.In the summer it’s about 1/4 the cost to operate of my old water heater. In the winter it’s about 1/3 the cost compared to the old one. Yes it was more expensive $1079 for 45 gallon and $196 in parts to install, but I will most definitely make the money back in a couple years. I’m just floored by the difference in our electric bills. Running it at 110deg most the day (change temp schedule via Wi-Fi). It comes on to 125deg (otherwise we run out of hot water) around 3pm-7:30pm(back down to 110deg normally just as 2nd person takes their shower).We’ve gotten in the habit of trying to run dw and take showers only in this window. It’s in the garage so we run it on heat pump only in the summer as it runs efficiently in a hot humid garage. In the winter we run it on energy saver (elements and heat pump). Highly recommend especially if your state offers a rebate.
Your report on your Rheem Hybrid heat pump was very helpful in getting me closer to which model or heat pump or tankless. I currently have a 220 VAC unit and a Bradford White powered vent unit and both are 25 years old. The electric unit is just starting to weep and soon will throw up.
Hello Mike, I installed my Hybrid back in Nov 2022. My W/H died after a hurricane in SWFL. Your video is what convinced me to purchase the 50gal model and self installed in my garage, so a Big Thanks. We get a lot of sediment in our water so i went a step further and installed a filter before the water enters the tank to cut down on having to flush the tank. It is now May 2024 and I drained and flushed tank for the first time and found no sediment coming out of the bottom out of the tank. I definitely noticed a savings. I havent had any performance issues. I used the app to schedule for our needs and used the OnDemand feature in the morning for 1-2 hours. Only issue Ive come across is occasionally drops off the wifi but reconnects on its own. My next step is to see how the anode rode is holding up. I plan to switch to a powered Anode rod which supposedly will out last the water heater.
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Video on how much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > th-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/w-d-xo.html Video on the Eco Net App > th-cam.com/video/mKgP9M-EipA/w-d-xo.html Video on how loud is the unit > th-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/w-d-xo.html Video on Hybrid Water Heater Maintenance > th-cam.com/video/iYbIsXKYC_Q/w-d-xo.html
@@frankcarrizo7799 Good call, i updated the links above. But here's a video on noise > Video on how loud is the unit > th-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/w-d-xo.html
if you don't want the heat pump to cool up your basement you can always vent out the cool air . thats what I did on my 80 gallons hybrid . thanks for your videos very well done.. im going to put my water temperature on schedule now thanks to your video. very nice of you ..
To be clear, in cool winter climates you would only want to vent it to an inside location that might have excessive heat. If you vent it outside then an equal amount of cold outside air will be drawn into the house. And my guess is that for most of the time in the winter the outside air is colder than the air coming from the water heater outlet.
I plan on ducting into the return air of my hvac system and also outside with a damper to switch between the two and that way during the summer get some free cooling when water heaters working and outside in colder temperatures. Problem solved.
THis is a great setup ! When exhausted to the outside you need to be careful you don’t cause negative pressure situation- which pulls cold air into the house or if you have a fireplace it could pull the smoke into the house. .... just something to consider and why I haven’t done it.
Thanks for this informative video! I'd like to respond to your rhetorical question towards the end-- "Why install a HPWH if you have a gas furnace--just install a gas water heater". The reason is to stop using gas to heat your water as one step in the process to go all electric. That's what I'm doing, starting with water heaters, then I'll replace the gas furnace and AC units with air source heat pumps to do both, then add rooftop solar, induction cooktop, battery backup, EV and charging infrastructure, and be done with both fossil gas and my utility. That's why :)
I would be tempted to be far more aggressive with the setback. You probably only need to heat it once in the morning for showers. There is probably enough hot in the tank for the rest of the day after that. I saved about $25/mth running a standard electric that way.
Equid0X - I appreciate the comment and the idea. This is a good idea, i'll add to my bucket of experimenting. I have some other things i'm trying to. Appreciate you watching ! Thanks Mike
I'm only here because I was in need of a new water heater. When I saw the $1600 price on one these I had to try and understand why! I've personally crunched the numbers and there is just no way this makes any financial sense whatsoever! Good for you at finding a way to make you think your saving money somehow.
you could simply attach a flex insulated air-conditioning duct and redirect the cold air from the heat pump outside, or up into the attic, or elsewhere. When you WANT the cool air, simply remove it temporarily.
Agree it's an option ! One size doesn't fit all tho ! Thanks for watching, here's an updated video on venting. th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
So DIYer here,Not a plumber, located south Florida, installed unit Rheem 50 gallon, in Garage. Temps & humidity in garage ,in summertime are unbelievable , 89 temp , 70 or 80% humidity. in "wintertime" here south fl , on some days it can mildly cool off garage, but not in summertim, maybe 80 gallon unit , anyway installed maybe 5 or 6 years ago when first became available, think it cut $25 to $ 30 monthly off my bill, only 2 people mostly in here. When visitors come( thats a thing in Florida) i need to change to High demand mode, both elements and compressor run, but zero issues supply hot water. Th main control board blew out after first 2 years, we have insane amount of lightening here for 7 or 8 months, so covered under Warranty took 2 weeks to send me board, in meantime i rigged the element , by direct wiring to 240 and energized about 10 minutes , water was hot, pita , but did the job. Later installed whole house surge unit in Panel, Breaker. I noticed in many Videos that people have not installed the required ?? Hot Water Expansion Tank, i think is code required most everyplace, cost like $50.00, Not a licensed plumber, anyway its been great addition, i read the WIFI app not too good.
Frank - that's awesome ! rigging the element is impressive, not sure i'd know how to do that, but sometimes when your forced to figure something out - you do ! I always live by the words of an old professor - "someone somewhere figured it out, why not you!". The expansion tank is required in my house because i have a check valve on my incoming water supply, if a house doesn't have it, then there's no need. I need to install a whole house surge - which one did you use ? was it hard to install ? Thanks Mike
I have had this water heater for a week and a half now and aside from the added noise in my den the cold has not been much of an issue, we are low water use family so I am unsure if that is helping us, but the den is about 2-3 degrees cooler which in some senses works for us because its used as a workout room (with an outside temp of 50) , and it is about 250 square feet. I will say its humming can be heard ( not bad, but a faint hum) in our living room due to the house only being 1200 square feet total and it being inside a converted garage to a den, so its basically inside the house. We are averaging 3.5 to 4 kilowatts a day on energy saver mode and in Washington that is 30-40 cents.
Its been well in the 30 at night (35-39) and no real difference than when installed. Other then the hum of it running and our den being slightly cooler, I think non noticeable now with our heatpump heater running. During the day it is about 45. I will keep updates coming. Next month going into January is when our 25-35 degree nights start.
Actually, Heat Pump Only mode uses less energy than "Energy Saver" mode. It is some odd testing regulation that forces the name apparently. My family of 5 averages 2 kWh of water heating per day.
I installed the same 50 gal unit in my garage 3 years ago and it has already paid for itself, and will pay for 2 more before the 10 year warranty expires! One problem I see with your cost savings math is that you took 30% of your entire electric bill to calculate the water heater savings. As you said, your bill depends on several variables and you've also made other cost saving improvements that affected your bill. I think it would most accurate to multiply your total kWh usage from the water heater by the price/kWh. Since my garage will drop into the 40's in the winter, I cut a hole in the wall behind it to vent the intake to pull from my laundry room for even more efficiency. This has been my best investment after my solar system install earlier in 2019.
You violated the fire code by cutting a hole in your garage wall, if your car catches fire you just enabled the speed at which the fire will spread to the interior of your house.
I did what they do in Europe and Philippines, I installed a $150 propane on demand heater in each of 3 bathrooms and the kitchen; very cheap to operate, and if one fails, it's just another $150 to replace it
get yourself a high high efficiency mini split put one head in the basement. this unit should be 24Seer or higher with ability to heat down to -22. Depending on the type of electric HVAC you have this heat pump unit would offset enough of the furnace costs with the savings and still have positive savings after conditioning the basement. Depending on the basements size and your ability to install the mini split or at least do everything but the line set and have a AC guy do just that part you could get away with around 2-2.5K for the unit if you need 15-18K btu.Dont go to small with it though the smaller the BTU output of the heatpump they tends to drop off the heat output in cold temps to less than 10K at 0F. I wish i new the size of the basement but i think you need 12-18K btu to do what i am thinking. Dont think it isnt worth it either because heat rises as well as goes to cold so the warmer the basement the warmer the entire house is. Plus if you have cold air return in the basement for the furnace your already sharing that mini splits heat to the entire house and in the summer months you wont even need to run the mini split. I know it sounds counter intuitive but so doesnt robbing your living space for heat to heat hot water lol. The right mini split will still keep you at a positive savings on the bill if you have a standard old style non (invertor/multi speed compressor) furnace. Another option is out there and that is looking into the new whole house furnaces with this tech in them they have ones out now you just pull your air handler and plop theirs in retaining your AUX heat components.
Thanks for this information. Facing the need to replace a passive solar water heating panel for the third time in 15 years, at the cost of $3K - I had the solar system removed and am now researching what to replace it with. I live in Florida, the water heater is in the garage and with the benefit of cold air being pumped into the hot garage space, this sounds like the perfect solution.
Had the board go out twice and already replaced the top element. It’s 2.5 years old. The unit has a lot of issues. Rheem is okay at sending parts out, but you’ll be without hot water for a week. You may want to get a board and have it on hand (not hard to replace). The unit will heat with only one element so that wasn’t a big deal. I wouldn’t expect these units to last longer then 10 years.
@@davidmassey3607 This is my concern. Any cost savings could quickly disappear depending on Rheem's warranty support and labor costs, not to mention major inconvenience. I was all set to purchase a Rheem Marathon WH, but reading about so many water leaks within the sealed tank and Rheem's less than stellar warranty support.
I have the 80 gallon version and use 4500 gallons a month (not all Hot water) and it cost me .45 cents a day to operate. I also vented exhaust air from heat pump into a y fitting that i can vent outside in the winter time or into the return air of my AHU system for summer and get free cooling from water tank while heating water. Love mine.
Robert, Thanks for sharing this was my plan but I decided against it, but I'm glad it working for you. I made an updated video on venting if your interested ! Thanks again for watching and thanks for your comment and ideas !!! th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Thanks Mike
A couple of things. 1) even if you have gas you can do this to have less impact on the environment. Even counting losses from electric generation this is better for the environment. 2) a mixing valve will help you maintain constant water temperature at the tap in the house. 3) If you have solar then you can schedule operation to coincide with when the solar is producing electricity and then your payback is almost immediate. 4) If you live in a place that charges a different price at different times of the day (and you don't have solar) you can schedule it to only heat water when electricity is cheap and avoid it operating in the high cost period of the day. 5) although it is cooling the room it is also dehumidifying your basement.
Mine consumes about 3.5 kw daily in winter, and we are 5 in home. Currently, I am taking the warm air from attic and dumping cool air back there. Plan is to use a double dumper to use the cool air in summer and dump it in winter.
I live in Texas where I have a gas heater. It's 10 years old seems to be asking for replacement (it's rated at just under $300 per year in fuel). The gas tank vents above into the attic out the roof. Instead, I could vent the hybrid up the attic into the room upstairs a foot away. (Insulate the vent). If it could give a couple degrees of relief to the single upstairs bonus room, that'd be awesome. Seems as if a series of input dampers (input air from the garage or the above attic) and output dampers (into the house, into the garage, out the roof) would be amazing.
Hahahah! Yeah the kids love to yell and stomp around the house when we're filming. But wouldn't change it for the world ! Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching !
So what did your average heating bill do after you installed this? The heat from inside your home is what is actually heating the hot water. Also the 4.0 efficiency for the water heater far exceeds any natural gas heat source when it's at 100 percent efficiency. That changes with temperature. You need to look at the efficiency curve and decide when it's best to switch to the electric mode. It will work in the north too. Just will take longer to cover its own costs. As I watched the video you literally said the same thing. Excellent video and explanation
Mike, I solved your too much cold air problem. 1st off - job well done explaining. Thanks much! We are all learning. Below are many points for anybody wanting to know more so here is the deal: Sizing, rebates, install tips, what to know, some pros and cons: (Mike see comment "B ") A) Recommend an install of a larger tank size for new installs. 50 vs 65gal. Adding 15gals. is more HW in reserve & that heat pump will heat, instead of electric backup, which only kicks in on high demand situations. Yes, you are heating larger volume, but it will save the electric heat units from kicking on. (The 65 is $400 more than the 50gal) B) Watch this video with a Rheem factory rep. th-cam.com/video/ukv1cMp3vFI/w-d-xo.html The same unit can be connected to air ducts.(The video is 3-4yrs old, hope Rheem didn't change ducting ability!) IN WINTER You can vent the cool exhaust air directly out of the house. IN SUMMER Disconnect and temporarily take out a section of duct to keep cool dehumidifed air in basement (or garage)! Love it! Ability to cool a space depends on size AND how frequently your unit runs! 2 people showering is not same a 4 people! Morning showers activate the unit and cool a space, but don't expect the same cooling on a hot afternoon when nobody has created significant demand! Its basics people! Stop asking "what can I expect"? How many BTUs? Doesn't matter if unit aint running much! HOWEVER, I think these do cool an average space a few degrees. Helping maintain demumidified air is awesome and in many respects feels better to us humans than a few degrees difference (plus no rusted items in storage, no musty smells= huge!) Cutting a hole in a garage wall for ducting is easy, but not so in a basement. (You would need a portion of basement wall exposed and above grade. Maybe remove/retrofit a small basement window to route duct work OR make a duct sized hole in basement ceiling to 1st floor and 90-degree it outside, hide w/ sheetrock or put inside closet). Think about transitioning round duct to rectangular if needed. No downsizing of ducts. You need to have no resistance for the pump's fan to move enough air. Also duct run has to be a short run to outside. For longer runs add a mid-stream inline powered vent fan (few watts) which can be automatically turned on with heat pump running (a bit technical, it can be done, but don't ask me). So duct the exhaust and leave unit's intake alone. B1) These units use electricty to heat in high demand times, or when the ambient air temp is too low to keep up. Recommend the 30amp tank over the 15amp. When electric is needed the 30-amp tank has a much faster recovery rate (look at the specs, big difference !). Also realize the $$ cost of a new electric circuit and make sure you have room in your main panel. C) 120-122-degrees in not enough! Recommend turning up the temperature setting even higher during your daytime use hours if u are still short on demand. Remember the cheaper to run heat pump is doing the storage cheaply not the electric elements. C1) I'm still learning about HW tanks and deadly Legionnaires Disease bacteria, but it is true water temperatures of 120°F does not kill the Legionella bacteria; a hot water temperature of 140°F is required at which Legionellae dies in 32 minutes. Hence it is recommended that water heaters be set at a safe hot water temperature of 140°F. FOR all you super Green People who want to set your tank super low, think again. Some conditions and environments, not all, can make your tank a breeding ground. What are the chances? I have no idea, but I'm ptting the info out there for people to learn for themselves. D) U are 100% correct putting these things in an already hot boiler room is the most efficient in winter as the air is pre-heated. Note: Units must have ample air volume per manufacturer (100 cubic feet) This is why if you put tank in a small closet you need to vent the closet significantly or add the ducts connecting outside the closet. E) Your install is good, but buyers need to be aware that old retrofit water connections coming from above the unit need to be moved out of the way above the new unit. The heat pump will likely need repair at some point and needs more than 15" to get the cover off. Do the install correct the 1st time. F) If diode needs replacement in years later see comment E! The diode is a bitch to get at. Most basements don't have ceiling clearance to fit a long diode out the top so it needs to come out 2 ft or so, be clamped (so it won't retract) cut in two or three, and be removed for replacement with a jointed diode (flexible one) G) The rebates in NYC metro area are $1000 From Con Edison and $300 tax credit. Your $1300 unit at Home Depot (don't know why your paid 1600 in u analysis unless u included fittings, condensation water pump, etc) H) For people whose tank has died the replacement cost is 1300 less cost of cheap electric tank (say $500) cause everybody needs hot water. As an upgrade to replace a working tank u have then full cost is relevant. I) BE AWARE - These Rheem units put off about 50-decibels of noise (about same as a newer dishwasher, but much lower than a window a/c unit). Remember decibels get exponentially loader and have a scale (60db is twice the amount of sound as 50db). Also these units give off some vibration. I have read, but have NOT confirmed, that final pipe connections need to be flex, braided hose, or pex connections (and maybe PVC) to not transfer the vibration to your rigid copper lines. I believe in eathquake prone west coast code is flexible lines regardless for all tank types. Somebody let me know if these heat pump units require it? J) Don't forget these units need to be connected to a drain for the condesation water that's collected. This is done with a $40-50 condensing pump that turns on when it senses water and pumps to a drain (upwards if needed). IF you don't need a pump, don't forget to add a cleanout point when connecting the line to the tank (if done in any rigid pipe type, pex included) The line is not under pressure so it can be left open or capped, but the condensation lines over time have a nasty habit of getting clogged with kunk and scum. A cleanout will make the job easy to snake out if you are installing rigid pipe for this. J) Supposedly, YES, you can put a duct/hole in your ceiling and draw hot attic air downward to feed the heat pump in the hot summer months (very efficient), but I do wonder about the maximum duct length allowed that the unit can "pull" in enough air to feed itself? Also remember to avoid doing 90' degree turns in the run as they add resistence (same thing as a long clothes dryer vent, which then takes longer to dry clothes and burns out heat elements). I'm not going to be the guy that tries out this method, but I am curious how many have failed to get the results they wanted? For people who want to put this in an attic don't! (With the exception If this is a replacement for an old unit, then maybe?) But for a new install the problems of getting it into the attic, future service access, the heavy filled weight, the noise vibration, the plumbing and electrical required, and no additional ceiling height for later service fixes (replacing diode or getting heat pump cover off) you are creating problems. The unit also has to be in a conditioned space (always above 40-degrees for the pump to even have a chance to get water hot enough for showers, otherwise it will use electricity to heat up at same cost as a pure electric tank. Also pipes freeze in cold climates in unconditioned attics. Plus you need to clean the air filter screen on these things monthly at a minimum (top unit access too). I have seen to many "Green People" wanting to put it in a hot attic to cool thier house (heat rises) but they don't have a clue what conditioned means! For those people educate yourself! AND don't put pipes and a device with 50 gallons of water subject to catastrophic failure above your entire living space! Can you say MASSIVE water Damage! K) I remain concerned about the complexity of these units (too many points of failure), the heat pump, circuit panels, led screen are all 1 more thing that can break. Reliability is priceless! A happy family and wife not bitching about cold showers is priceless too!. A 10 year warranty is not awesome (compared to lifetime warranties offered on indirect HW tanks for the same price if you can do indirect). These units only appear to have about a 10 yr history for broader adopted residential use. That really isn't that long for us pigeons to know rates of failure that occured less than the warranty period.. In 10 years I doubt the rebates currently offered will be available so replacement cost might be full price when the time comes. Early adopters who like to brag about "how many cents per KW hour" should always look at long term operatiing costs! The chance for just 1 additional repair during lifespace will eat most $$$ savings! Not denying these are good for the environment and reducing carbon, but there are other things to factor in your decision.
I bought the same exact unit and got $800 instant rebate from Eversource at Home Depot in Connecticut. Plus, $400 federal tax credit when you file taxes. List price was $1400 in March of 2020 when I bought it. And I am saving on my monthly electric bill. Before I had an 80 gallon electric tank heater that ate up the electricity.
To address the problem of heat pump mode cooling your basement too much in the winter, instead of running it in electric/resistive heat mode, maybe it would be worthwhile to instead spend a small amount to duct the cold output air to the outside. Then during the warm months, disconnect or divert that cold output back into the basement (or other parts of the house the could use it). The ducting is a one time modest expense (especially if you don't buy the ridiculously overpriced rheem outlet duct adapter) that provides the valuable options needed to continue to achieve maximum savings by using heat pump mode.
Hello - I appreciate the idea. I did a video on this because this was a very common comment, and makes sense, but it's not a one size fits all solution. I appreciate the comment Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Mike
I am in the north and just installed the unit in a second home. I plan to duct both the input and output vents to help cool my house in the summer and draw heat from outside in the summer to make it more efficient. It is in an unused basement so cooling the room in the winter is not a big deal. A byproduct of it is that it dehumidifies the area allowing me to no longer run a dedicated dehumidifier. I just need to find a duct splitter so I can direct input and outputs based upon the season.
Yep that's an option agree ! Def considered but it not as simple as just running a duct to the outside. I'll post video concerning this. Can cause a dangerous situation by just running a duct to the outside.
@@FamilyDIYtv You need a duct to bring outside air in and one to take the 'exhaust' out. Otherwise, you'll be pumping your heated/conditioned air outside.
I just heard about the hybrids and came across your video in my research! I really liked that you explained where you were 6 months ago, what you learned and all your savings research! thank you for helping me make my decision. Too bad you don't live here in FL so you could install it for me!
There is a $300 federal tax credit for HPWH and there should be a local utility rebate that will speed up your payback. I got a total of $600 in rebates. I installed mine in June 2019 from nat gas. I have solar so I pay zero for electric and am saving about $25 in gas per month. Any thought to duct the outlet air outside?
Where are you located and how did it do last winter? Is the heater in a conditioned or unconditioned place? I did exactly what you did by switching from Nat gas to this model due to excess solar production. My old heater was power vented and expelled a lot of air out of the house while heating. Even though my 80 gallon Rheem cools the basement about 3 degrees during operation, I'm wondering if it will actually be warmer this winter since cold outdoor air won't be drawn into the basement to replace the air that was being expelled. Food for thought I suppose.
@@FamilyDIYtv In addition to the local rebates from the utility companies, there is a federal tax credit of $300 that everyone should qualify for. As of right now, it expires at the end of the year so your 2020 tax return will be the last chance to use it. You will need to fill out IRS Form 5695 with your tax return.
@@brianmonroe8715 you do man ! i'll definitely check this out at tax time. I did apply d for a federal rebate a few years back when I installed a new furnace and since then I haven't been able to claim anything on federal taxes(i maxed out), hoping this is another form. Thanks for the headsup ! pinning this one
I live in the north and thinking about getting a hybrid water heater when it's time to replace the existing one. Even though we have a gas furnace and water heater, it's actually propane, not natural gas, so can be quite expensive to run. The heater will be in an unfinished section of our basement (the rest of which is finished), next to the furnace. So, I can close the door to that room which should reduce the cooling effect on the rest of the basement in the colder months. I think this will also be a benefit in the summer months when it gets quite humid in the basement and the dehumidifier is constantly running.
Hey I did some research on rebates and I found that my utility company is offering rebates and you can claim this on your federal tax return as well, yay
Energy efficiency Maine has a good website that includes calculators The one for Hot Water Heat Pumps let’s you set variables for source water temp, water temp target, gallons per day cost per kWh, ambient temp target . You can Leo see how it comparison with different fuel type systems From other comments I think some are using kWh cost but be sure to use total kWh delivery charge with all fees etc. for your true cost. From a cost savings, and energy efficiency perspective I would strongly recommend if possible you own a Solar Electric System and you then lock in you electric cost for Heating / AC with Heat Pump, Domestic Hot Water, Residential Electric needs etc. Take advantage of Federal, State nd Utility Rebates. Swap out your utility bills to pay off your solar system which should happen in 5 to 7 years. The Solar is Free forever and the Rooftop Solar is very durable capital equipment with no moving parts usually warranted for 25 years. Pay yourself first! Finally the video was great but the App for the heat pump gives you total control for savings potential, efficiency and comfort if you look at the data and think about when you heat the water as well as when you don’t. Reheating water when you are asleep or not usually home etc. is a waste of your money.
Thanks for breaking it down, I’m in South Texas and considering the heat pump water heater. My conventional water heater needs to be replaced. One of the pluses I see is the cooling byproduct which would be a welcome in our hot garage. Probably help the 2nd refrigerator be more efficient too, I hope. Thanks!
@@FamilyDIYtv We just had our hybrid installed. Since it's just my husband and myself, we went from a 50 gallon conventional electric heater to a 40 gallon hybrid. We do seem to have a problem trying to get our wi-fi signal to the garage on the far end of the house. So... that will be something we'll have to work on. But so far, great at providing hot water - it does seem to take a bit longer, but not enough to make a difference. I like the features on the Rheem pro terra - we can choose heat pump or "regular" heat. It has a vacation away feature - all by wifi (once we figure it out). The "humming" someone mentioned, is insignificant, even when you are in the garage. And it only makes noise when it is actively heating. So far, so good. Will see if it makes a difference in my electric bill!
Thank you so much for your feedback on your hybrid water heater! I'm also looking at one and I live in Minnesota. I agree with you, I may need to turn it off for a couple, three months when it is very cold. One note, there are some federal and local credits for purchasing a hybrid electric water heater. This helps offset the cost, as well. Thank you, Mark
Got mine installed professionally. AO smith 67 gallon. My plumber set it to 140f and installed a mixing valve. You should set the temps higher and install a mixing valve if you don't have one. I have 3 people in my home currently. No issues with running out of hot water whatsoever. My basement also gets very hot and humid over the summer. It helped substantially with the humidity and heat in the basement. Also keep in mind the utility company gives a rebate for a heat pump water heater. It's a no brainer getting one of these installed if its in a basement or garage imo.
we are considering this particular hot water heater. We don't think it will work for us because of the cold air element/where the unit would need to be...this video was excellent. he directly, without going overboard in talking about it, addressed the issues that were on the top of our list thank you
I just bought a house in Augusta ME . The home is super energy efficient. It was built in 2021. It has 3 bathrooms with showers. Half the basement is finished. The unfinished part is about 800 sqft where the hybrid heat pump hot water heater is. It is insane cold. I’m going to finish out that half of the basement and rip that BS out of there. I’m replacing it with a tankless propane water heater. Sometimes comfort is worth more than a few extra bucks. I’m from Texas and down there it would be nice to have an Air Conditioner in my garage but it no freaking good for a New England basement
Good for watching this video, and thank you for that. I almost go with this hybrid Heatpump system, but now it changed my mind because of that cold air it will effect my basement temperature. I made decisions now to go with electric only and that is still a RHEEM MODEL: PROE50 T2 RH92 CL this one will use electric heat only and full amp load is about 18 amps. Please check it out guys.
Heat pump water heaters recover slowly, so more storage is better, sizing is important. the next thing is that they need space! The larger the room they are in, the smaller the impact will be. Never put one in a closet! The folks talking about server racks and home theater systems are spot on, where do you have excess heat in your home? what about the attic? etc...
Great update video! I installed this same rheem about a month ago. These units are louder than I thought it would be. I had to turn on electric mode from 10 pm to 2am because it was keeping me up at night. The water heater is in the garage on the opposite side of the master bedroom. My electric bill runs around 100 in western Oregon. I can't wait to see the electric bill!
@@FamilyDIYtv I didn't save as much as I'd thought. I'm located in the pacific nw. I saved around 7%. Electric prices here are pretty low to begin with .058 per killowatt hour. Temps have been a below freezing for a few days last month. I'm sure I'll see bigger savings in the warmer months
If you are to accurately determine the "payback", I suggest that you take the difference between (i) the cost of a direct replacement of your existing (gas?/electric?) water heater, and (ii) the higher cost of this new hybrid unit. It is the amortization of the difference that gives you a more accurate calculation of your payback period. Why this calculation? Because you intend to have a water heater no matter what, so the question is just how much more will you spend (incremental cost) on the new, more efficient heat-pump system. Also, consider what gas is used in the system: Rheem/Ruud sent me a written note that they ProTerra Hybrid water heaters use R-134A; I assume their heat-pump only water heaters also use that gas. NOTE 01: R-410A is being phased out because of its high Global Warming Potential (GWP). R-454B appears to be the replacement for R-410A; R32 is also coming online in the USA. Eventually, it appears that we may all have CO2 (carbon dioxide) in our compressors; CO2 (i) has zero (0.0) ODP (Ozone Depleting Potential) and (ii) is gauged as one (1.0) GWP (Global Warming Potential) over all periods of time. NOTE 02: CO2 is the gas against which the GWPs of all other gases are calculated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), based in Switzerland. R-11 is the gas against which the ODPs of all other gases is calculated. NOTE 03: Presently, the only company that uses CO2 in its compressors appears to be Sanden, Japan's largest maker of air-conditioning compressors that is not owned by an automobile manufacturer. Sanden's "SanCO2" water-heater system is distributed in the USA by www.Eco2SystemsLLC.com (Michigan). Sanden only produces heat-pump hot-water systems and no HVAC units...yet. The great beauty of this system is that the heat-pump compressor is separate from the storage tank; the SanCO2 compressor is usually installed outside battery limits (i.e., outside the air envelope of the residence or commercial building). Thanks for your video
Crap I didn't read any viewers comment before posting mine but I guess a lot of us think alike lol On the topic of cold months I would think you could install a section of metal ducting with a good closable damper to the outside on the heatpump exhaust port and during the cold months open the damper so the cold exhaust air goes straight outside. It doesn't have to be elaborate or complicated and you can even design it with another damper to direct the cold air back inside during hot months kind of like a 3 way valve. Just as a suggestion to get your thoughts going on a fix and it can be quick , simple and inexpensive. Good luck and God bless you and yours
appreciate the comment, check this video out to that exact topic Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
I installed a 50 gallon Rheem hybrid at my home. We saved $100 or more dollars per month on electrical bill so the unit paid for it's self in one year. I vented the intake from the attic witch can pull up to 140 degree air then vented the outtake cold air into our living room. Also we had a wedding party of 8 people stay at the house I turned to high recovery it supplied hot showers for all. very happy with this water heater.
In CA we have gas water heaters, and we are changing to electric hybrid water heaters to work with our installed solar. even though "gas is cheaper" that price varies month-by-month and is an annual expense that cannot contribute to the ROI of the solar system. Moving to an electric water heater (hybrid) is also better if your water heater is needing to be replaced. Eventually, gas water heaters will not be available for purchase being prepared for this eventual switch is necessary
i think gas heater will always be available, at least in our lifetime, meaning in our lifetime we’ll probably be able to swap out a few gas WH’s. …maybe a few generations from now they’ll be finally phased out, but in Cally you never know, they could ban them next year ha, so I get your point 100%! i love the solar setup, just wish it made sense in PA, the ROI is just not there - YET ! actually was just talking about this with my kids and trying to explain what ROI meant because they want me to switch to solar- lol. great points ! thanks Chris ! Mike
Gas isn't always really cheaper... Taking the data from my latest Propane refill, I calculated that at $2.7 per gallon of propane, the price of electricity was equal to the price of propane for me (considering 91,600 BTU/gallon, and considering that I live in WA where electricity is pretty cheap). Since an electric water heater will have a better efficiency than a gas water heater (you're not losing heat by emitting combusted gas), then in some states it might already be cheaper to just use electricity, even without a heat pump. Then of course if you add the geopolitical situation increasing the price of gas quicker than the price of electricity, that might become true in more and more places.
@@CorentinLeman good point. all this data was really pre covid, meaning before the covid price hike and price insanity that’s going on right now. it hard to know what cost what anymore. it’s sad really … Thanks Mike
Florida garage install, 50 gallon hybrid water heater...Plenty of hot water and nice dehumidifying and cooling for the garage which in turn kept that heat out of the house. Cold time of the year I put it in hybrid mode to help it keep up in a cold garage. Getting ready to replace it after the compressor crapped out after 10 years. Sadly going to have to pay full price on this one, no rebate this time around from the power company.
you may want to try ducting the exhaust outside with a valve so u can let it vent outside in the winter and then flip it back inside when the weather is warmer.
In a northern climate venting to the attic could also work for some. A cool dry attic would help the roof last longer. In the winter most of them are already cool.
I read a lot of comments to" just duct the cold air outside", That would mean anytime the unit is running you would simply be exhausting conditioned air from the home. That air will have to be replaced and conditioned by the homes heating system. I live in NE PA and have had a HPWH in my lower level 4 car garage for 12 years. It will cool and dehumidify the garage in the summer and drop the temp about 10 degrees( from 50 to 40) in the winter. These water heaters are not for every home but i will say their energy usage is almost nothing. Retired master plumber with 49 years in the trade.
I installed my 50 gallon heater in 2019 for $1200. It has cost a total of $540 to operate over 4 years. My old unit was rated at $550/year. It would have cost me $2200 over that same time period. This unit has already paid for itself and is working on paying for the next unit!
I’m thinking about buying one of these. I live in Canada in an old century home. So, yes, cold in the winter, but I have to deal with trying to cool the house and dehumidifying the basement in the warmer months. So my plan was to enjoy the biproduct of it dehumidifying the basement, and run a vent up to my office to exhaust the cool air. Triple duty it seems.
It's nice when you can leverage the by-product like that ! Since you're in a cold climate like me you may want to watch these... Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html Video on ho much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > th-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/w-d-xo.html Thanks -Mike
Yes, I was wondering if I could actually vent out to the out doors in the winter. For example; is there an outdoor temp that would come back and hurt the unit or work against its efficiency thru the vent?
@@aroniousskywalker1765 you can definitely vent but the colder the incoming temp the less efficient the unit runs. Also the intake temp I believe can't be below 37, if I'm remembering correctly. I also linked some research papers in those videos I suggested. Thanks for watching, Mike
Family DIY tv Well, I only intend on venting the cold air the unit expels. In the warm months, that would be to the main floor, and in the winter; outside the house. The air the unit receives would be warm all year. Because, in the winter, my water utility area is right next to a man oil furnace. And the duct work (as well as the furnace itself tend to keep the basement warm even without venting a single outlet from the furnace. So, I might as well take advantage of that - kind of wasted heat loss. It’s a field stone cellar, not a conditioned space. My only concern after watching your video, however, is that the unit would put out so much cold air, that I might have to vent from the furnace a little to keep the floors warm and the water pipes moderately warm
Pausing while looking at your kWH comparisons from 2019 to 2020. It's also worth noting that you saw that big of a drop while presumably your kids and maybe your or your wife were all stuck schooling or working from home which would result in an increase in kWh usage... despite that, you still went down.
It doesn't matter how little electricity bill I save. I saved plenty. I only paid 999 on sale, regular price 1699, no sales tax in Oregon. My power company gave me 600 dollar rebate. 300 dollar Federal rebate. 10% military rebate. They paid me 99 cents to haul it away 😆 Free air conditioning will be fantastic. They are still on sale 12-7-2022.
This is the first time I've heard mention of the HPWH unit cooling the air in the basement. Good to know. Makes me want to look more into that brand that separates the compressor by putting it outside.
The dehumidification in the heat pump mode is also a benefit if you live in the south especially if it is in the garage or and attic. It can also convert the heat from my solar power inverter and just driven vehicles to heat my water.
Not sure how adversely it or not it would affect your electric bill but you wouldn’t have to keep it a high temperature for as many hours if you put it on high demand mode it will run the electric resistive heater but only when the heat pump won’t keep up.
I have a 2,000 sq ft ranch with a 2,000 sq ft basement. Because it is a big ranch and there is no hot water use in the middle of the house I am installing two Rheem 40 gallon units, one on each end for a better end user experience. I have a two stage 4 ton heat pump that manages to stay out of Aux heat until 0 F, it's only a year old. Buying a multi speed compressor with extra capacity really helps out with heating in the winter. The directions for the water heater tell you to not directly connect this to your HVAC system so I am installing return grills in the return duct that is near the hot water heaters and just routing the 8" flexible duct from the heat pumps right in front of it. I also wanted better recovery time and 2 heat pumps and 4 heating elements should do the job. At least this will end the wife running hot water in the half bath for 5 minutes so she has hot water for the washing machine. I also have a 7 Cu Ft vent-less Whirlpool hybrid heat pump dryer. For you folks considering venting your hot water heater outside do you have a dryer venting massive amounts of hot air outside during the winter? Since I plan on routing my hot water heaters into the intake I will not have a cold room or basement and I am leaving it at that. I also have 320 A service so I am not concerned if my 2 stage aux heat and all the heat pumps come on at the same time. I have the models with auto water shutoff and one will not be near a drain so I have a condensate pump. They will arrive 12/21 and I hope it all goes well. Can you claim the federal tax credit on one or both?
There may be more factors than just the new water heater affecting the KWH used. I have seen a rule thumb that says std water heaters account for about 12% of residential electricity usage. If that 12% is close, you were paying only about $29 per month for the old heater (12% X 243). The only way to know for sure would be to separately meter the water heater.
I moved into my first house that has an old fuel oil hot water boiler that runs out radiator and our domestic hot water. Im thinking of getting one of these for the domestic hot water to stop getting cold later in the middle of a shower. So I can definitely understand the thought process of keep it near the furnace or boiler in the house because that’s what I’m planning on doing to utilize all the excess heat the boiler throws off
Oil fired boiler should produce plenty of domestic hot water. My diagnosis is that the fins have rotted off of your tankless coil and it needs to be replaced. You will get a few dollars scrap value for the old coil.
I thought I would follow up my original statement with some numbers. I am in Chicago; my 80-gallon rheem is in an uninsulated basement. (Rim joist is spray foamed, but walls are unfinished. Oct 21, 90.87 kwh Nov 21, 91.01 kwh Dec 21, 91.77 kwh Jan 22, 101.23 kwh Feb 22, 86.8 kwh So far, as of the 19th of March, I am at 78.59 kwh. Now the bad. Sometimes, when we run the dishwasher, and either one or both of the clothes washers and or someone takes a shower, I have to bump it into high demand mode or we run out of hot water. I kind of fixed this temporarily by boosting the ramp to 130 degrees (I generally like to keep it at 120). The permanent fix is I am having a plumber install a mixing valve to bring the temperature off the water leaving the heater down to 125 degrees, this will allow me to crank the water heater temperature up to 150 degrees, thus eliminating hot water shortages.
Doing some research on hybrid WHs, and just wanted to say this was helpful, thanks! That's cool (no real pun intended LOL) the unit keeps up with its energy usage through the app; really helps you see your usage. In my estimation of saving $300/yr for what I been looking at, still would pay for itself in 5-6 yrs. Even in the South, you kinda don't want an AC blowing someplace inconvenient on burrier days (such as laundry room where mine is), but if you have the option to turn off the heat pump mode during particular times, then you can really maximize when/how you use that feature along with the scheduling. Also, I believe the $300 fed tax credit is still a thing on these hybrid units as well, so there is that. Sounds like there's a learning curve on owning one till you get everything "just so".
Just vent it outside with a selector to vent inside in summer if you basement is hot. I was going to say install a temperature mixing value (TMV) for safety reasons (compulsory) in a lot of countries to bring you hot water temperature down to the safe use range (50-60C) but you are only running it at 132F (55 Degrees C), which appears too low to even consider a mixing valve and probably means limited backup high demand storage.Don’t have too many stay over guests! NSW in Oz
I live on the gulf coast and my water heater is in my garage, so I'm definitely leaning towards this. My garage can get very hot during the summer due to my EV charging, so this can help counteract that. My complaint is that you only get the bigger rebate if you switch from gas, not traditional electric. The electric companies really don't care about you saving energy, they just want you to switch from gas.
Mine is in my garage. We also have the garage door insulated. Of course everyone’s set up is different, but we’ve only seen about a 8 degree difference. Every little bit is nice though.
Just invest in a vent attachment on the exit fan, and blow the cold air outside. Put a T on it, and set a vane into your house during the summer to help with A/C.
I just purchased one I am waiting for it to arrive. I have found almost $750 in rebates for this unit. Rheem says there are $1050 in rebates for this unit. The rebates I found went into effect in Oct 2020. It sounds like you purchased it before that time. I am in New Jersey not far from you. I have a large basement which I do not need to heat. The reduced temperature will not effect me. I do need the dehumidifier effect for the spring, summer, and fall. I did find if you need a hot water heater in a hurry, it is not the unit to get it is 3 weeks to order from Home Depot. I am switching from gas. There are just two seniors living in my house. The hot water from the heat pump will do most of our hot water needs.
Gene! That's great news, good luck on your new purchase and thanks for watching ! A shinny new water heater is not the funnest thing to buy but if you have to buy one it fun to know it's super efficient and can be controlled via app ! Thanks for watching - Mike
In central Florida, cost me $86 to run in the entire 2020. The old unit cost me nearly $400 the previous year. Not only did I save a significant amount to heat water, I also increased the capacity from 50 gallons to 80 gallons. It was a win for me... (self installed too)
That's awesome Dennis ! Appreciate you watching.
Mike
How do you calculate how much it cost you to run the unit per year?
@@janfier The Econet app has graphs and usage reports for days, weeks, months and year. Times the amount by the prevailing usage rate. If your rate changes throughout the day, you probably won't get a good read unless you program it to only run during the cheapest usage times.
@@phlydude thanks for the response. The old water heater that cost you $400 a year to operate how you calculate that one.
@@janfier essentially calculated from the energy sticker on it - taking the annual usage on the sticker x the kwh rate
I installed one of these in a friend's house down in Iowa, he loves it!! Keeps the humidity in his unfinished basement down so no need for a dedicated dehumidifier.
Jack ! Thanks for the comment !
Mike
My suggestion is duct the cool air outside if you don’t want it inside. Really simple to duct it. You can also put a two way damper in your duct work to use the cool air in summer and open the damper to the outside vent side in the winter when you don’t want the cool air.
Jack, thanks for the comment and the idea. Your suggestion makes sense, for my specific case I decided against doing that. Here's a video on venting this unit
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment !
Mike
My thoughts exactly!
Would that create -ve pressure in the house. Pumping air out of the house that air has to be replaced from somewhere no?
if it is cold outside then you just send cold air outside to have cold air sucked into house to replace that air seems these would only make sense in hot climates.
@@ranger178 You should have two vents, sucking air from outside and blowing the colder air back inside plus not tax the heating system by cooling inside air. This would equalize pressure and not cause extra air exchange with the outside. In the summer, vent to inside to acts as extra free air conditioning. But frankly these units sve so much electricity, it is probably not worth the bother, And if installed in the basement, the extra dehumidification year round would help prevent mold and mildew.
An instant rebate from Central Hudson made the price $678 in Nov 2019 at Home Depot for this item. Installation cost $588 (which also included removing the existing water heater and condensate pump) for a total cost of $1266. Lives in the unfinished part of the basement with an oil furnace so cooling is a non-issue. Set to 125 degrees in energy saving mode and have never run out of hot water! Electric savings will pay total price in 2021.
I initially had the same problem you had with the cold basement. The fixed that problem by venting the exhaust air outside, which hugely fixed the cold basement problem. During the summertime, i disconnect the vent so the cold air vent into the basement to help dehumidify the air. Here in MA, they offer a $600 rebate for my specific unit. My initial cost was $1200 and after the rebate, the unit only cost me $600 which is about the same as a regular electric water heater. I also run my unit on a scheduler also, which greatly increased my savings.
I'm glad that worked out for you ! Thanks for watching, thanks for the idea ! I was planning on venting outside but for my situation I don't believe that's gonna work. Appreciate the comment !
Video on venting in case interested-
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks
Mike
Nice video a little long. Heres a few ideas. 1) Create ducting to move less dense air (warmer air closer to the ceiling) down into the intake (top of your HWH). 2) Exhaust cooler air coming out of the side through an insulated pipe venting to the outside. Check angle to make sure air that might be condensing is running toward the exit not toward the HWH. 3) During spring and summer you can basically reverse this giving you free A/C. I live in Texas and I pull from the hot attic and vent into the house. In the winter the air is vented into the garage. I keep water at 130 and it never runs out and have knocked a solid 12-18% off my electric bill a month.
I'm wondering the same - if I run a duct from the top of the great room down to the basement for warm input during winter...
Appreciate your video explanation very good and learning to use it correctly.
I instruct students and contractors in HVAC.
You only need to vent the cold air outside to solve the problem, and you are definitely able to do it .
For some of my customers I vent into a foam instalation walk in for wine , vegetables , fruit ,etc. year round.
Finally these units can be installed on the first or second floor near shower area ( laundry room in my second floor) for master bath and common bath.
Again great job!!!!
I installed one of these a few years back myself. Unfortunately, it didn't come with an app. There was a wifi module that was several hundred dollars extra, and still no app with that, it basically just allowed a water detection alarm during a leak. Glad to hear they fixed that. Because the high efficiency mode is useless without being able to manually schedule the temperature. Like you, the water was always luke warm. It works great in high demand mode though which ironically was the customer support recommendation, just run it in high demand she said. We are in Texas, and what some people do is put a duct on the output of the unit that splits off to outdoors and indoors, and you baffle off indoors during winter and outdoors during summer.
I think your mistake was choosing too small a unit. I picked the 80 gallon (for a 4 person household). Secondly, perhaps the better option for you is to vent the unit outside in winter months so that the cold air is not being pumped into your room. I exhaust mine into a server rack to keep all my AV equipment cool and that more than takes care of the problem, in fact by time the air leaves the top of the rack it's generally at room temp.
Good thinking! I was planning on using it to cool my server rack.
I agree. We installed a 40 gal, because of the price and that's the size we had before, and it works fine in high demand mode for 4, but we probably could have run heat pump mode only with the 80 gal. All cost tradeoffs I guess
Ducting to a place I want to be cooler isn't an option for but could work for others. Here a video on ducting
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for watching !
Mike
Or put it outside if practical.
I’m considering buying this for my house..I’m replacing a water heater and I’m thinking that going to 65 or 80 gals should help with issues like running out of hot water..I’m also considering installing this in my garage instead of the closet the old heater is currently in. I don’t care as much about the garage being cool in the winter..I’m in the north also.
Great information, though I’ve seen higher cost savings in other videos, your analysis seems very right. As far as the cooling issue, I saw one case where one installer installed a two way output vent. One way it vent the output to the outdoors during the winter months, then indoors during the heat of the warmer summer months. Seemed like a ideal resolution to me.
Brian,
I had the same plan but changed that after some research, I suggest before you go through the trouble of venting your unit you watch this.
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks again for watching,
Mike
Are you a certified plumber
I installed an AO SMITH 50 gallon when I purchased a foreclosure in 2019. My home is all electric and it was installed in a nice sized utility room in our basement. Our electric bill is only 65.00 in months where HVAC is not needed so I would call this a success. In addition to installing this I found low Flo (1.5 bpm) shower heads. My cost to install was $600.00 after utility rebates that applied which was only 100.00 more than a standard. One additional thing I was able do was to dump the dryer vent in this room during the cooler months. I have kept a watch on the humidity in this room and have found it to be kept at 60% in effect recycling the energy that would have been expelled from the home not to mention the negative pressure and drafts that a dryer creates while running.
You might consider installing a mixing valve so that the water temp delivered to your fixtures stays constant despite the change in tank temp. Then you wouldn't tell about the setback. You still benefit from the greater capacity with the higher tank temp but have no scalding risk. Also called a tempering valve.
And remember the efficiency of the heat pump varies with the temp difference between the air and the water. Keeping this temp difference low saves the most so ke Ed ping water Temps just high enough so you have enough hot water will maximize savings
I did exactly that and it works great. You can have a 50 gallon unit simulate an 80 gallon by raising the hybrid temp and have the mixing valve combine it to the lower temp.
I bought this water heater th-cam.com/users/postUgkx8G49mV71sAzUl9shXyLW-r3XgHH9EVh1 for use in my bus conversion. I installed it under my kitchen sink and it is fed by a high efficiency on-demand LP water heater. It is both a backup hot water source as well as a water saving device since we have hot water on demand rather than having to wait for the gas on demand water heater to finish its ignition cycle. I decided on this water heater due to the fact that it only draws 1300watts when it's ON instead of the 1500 watts that most Water heaters this size draw. In an RV a couple hundred watts can be a big deal. With very low standby losses, I don't have to worry about excessive power consumption. When propane is not available for our gas water heater, in conjunction with our low flow shower head there is enough hot water available to shower, albeit we won't be taking "hotel showers." Also very happy with the recovery rate of this water heater. Granted, it is quite small, but it does exactly what we need it to do.
Perfect!
I had a natural gas On Demand water heater for 15 years. For the cost of a dehumidifier you get hot water when only using the Heat Pump. The cool air is dry air, which you could duct upstairs or outside. We love it.
Awesome !
-Mike
One thing that I did not see you account for: In summer you're paying to cool your house down. If you can duct the cold exhaust into the living area, every BTU of cooling you dump there, is a BTU you don't have to pay for, so you can view it as paying for the same cooling you would anyways, and getting free hot water as a byproduct, or you can view it as paying for hot water and getting free cooling, in any case you save twice, once because heating water with a heat pump is 4 times cheaper that resistive electricity and 2 because you get cold/dry air. Additionally I personally needed to run a dehumidifier during winter but because this does the same job now I don't have to, so again I'm getting double savings in winter as well.
agree 100%, just hard to quantify these points, they are good points !
I installed my Rheem in the garage here in Portland, Oregon. In the Summer I leave the garage door open to my house so we get the benefits of the cool air and in the Winter the door is left closed and the garage remains chilly for the cold food I store in there (root vegetables and fruit). I leave the temperature at 120 for best savings since I have the larger capacity model and we never run out of hot water.
Thanks for the info and I appreciate to see the KW savings - very helpful. As for the cold air into the basement the easy answer is to vent it to the outside, just like one does with the dryer etc. I talked to an installer and it seems very easy and inexpensive to do. I was having the same concern since I leave in NY and the venting is the easy solution. I think this year I will be ordering an 80 gallon to replace my current 15 yr old 80-gal electric on (which surprisingly is still working well but I like the savings idea and not to have to replace it as an emergency one of these days lol). Thanks again for helping me with the decision based on savings.
Hi - thanks for watching, agree on the venting but before you do vent outside i would watch this. Just as a heads-up.
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Matt on the channel Build just did a similar comparison on hybrid vs your standard water heater. Comparing the cost savings and if it is worth the cost. His channel Build is the "go to channel" for me and I believe his channel does a great job. Although he and his channel has more experience and access to information you don't have and a team to help him you information and presentation was in my opinion far better for what I was looking for. Am considering installing a new water heater and so glad you put this video up. It was just what I was looking for presented in and outstanding format that I could clearly follow. So thanks for taking the time in making this video.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a nice comment ! I look up to Matt Risinger , so the comparison is flattering, it really is. I'm trying to help people and i hope i helped you ! Have a great day because you made my day a little better.
Thanks again,
Mike
Very helpful, we get a $500 credit and with your reporting we’re going to pull the trigger. Thanks uou
Awesome news !
Happy new year
Mike
I live in Minnesota so thank you for this video because I've been looking at installing an electric heat pump / resistance water heater and I was very curious about it cooling down the rooms in my basement. So this video did help.
In answer to your question about why not just stay with a gas water heater, the answer is because we have to stop using all gas products. I was astonished the other day to find out that just my house alone and my water heater, which is all I have for gas in my house at this time, put more than a ton of carbon into the air every year. That blows my mind. So I'm on a mission to eliminate all of my gas appliances.
In my opinion every house in this country and around the world needs to eliminate all gas products and the sooner the better. Thank you
Thanks, i'm glad it helped ! Good luck with your mission !
-Mike
You can also install a duct that vents to the outside or someplace that you don't care about with possibly a damper so that you can get 'free' air conditioning in the summer.
I would dump it in the attic in the summer time.
ahhh you stole my idea, lol jk but I just said same exact thing.
I purchased the 80 Gal model about two years ago. Its my wife and I, I oversized on purpose since a heat pump is much slower recovery. I am in the south so we love it. If your in a cold climate, I would not recommend. In full heat pump mode, I measured 1.7 Amps of load on 220v. That is crazy low. I have a walk out basement with a small garage integrated where the water heater is located. When I built the house I put 8" vent thru the wall for winter use. If used in the correct climate and installed with options to vent, its free air conditioner to the basement in the summer. Noise level is 2 or 3 times a refrigerator. Would not want it near any sitting area, kitchen etc. It runs for hours and hours. But it is just sipping electric. The noise is not a problem for us.
Sound great !!!
I installed one of these to replace a perfectly fine gas water heater. The energy guide on this unit says it will cost $104 per year based on 12 cents per KW, which is what I pay. Gas water heater said $263 per year assuming gas at $1.09 per therm. My gas it $1.61 per therm. so my projected cost is more like $385 per year. Seemed like a no-brainer. Actual KW used, measured by the phone app is actually trending to about $400 per year based on two weeks of usage. I live in Sacramento. It almost never freezes here, but it is coldest part of year. Performance does not equal gas unit and extremely doubtful that it will save any money. I definitely would not do it again, if I had the option. Plus, the garage is REALLY cold. In the summer, that will be nice, but not so much in the winter. It is also noisy. You can hear it running in the bedroom next to the garage, where it is located. Bottom line: if you have a gas option, stick with gas.
John, 100% agree ! If you have gas stick with it...
Hey John. If you are in Sacramento you have SMUD and they have the best prices in the state. It is all about scheduling your water heater to run during the low price part of the day and skipping the peak. I'd bet good scheduling would help because I'd also guess you have a mixing valve and got a rebate when you installed it. It took me a few months to dial in my unit just like it did for Family DIY.
The other reason to do this is that is avoids almost 12 tonnes of carbon pollution (when switching from natural gas) over a 13 year life. FYI - it takes 40 years for 1 valley oak to absorb 2.5 tonnes of carbon in Sacramento. Stick with it John.
My heat pump(hybrid) water heater seems like a good investment. I guess I’ll know better at the 10 yr mark. We are a two person household.In the summer it’s about 1/4 the cost to operate of my old water heater. In the winter it’s about 1/3 the cost compared to the old one. Yes it was more expensive $1079 for 45 gallon and $196 in parts to install, but I will most definitely make the money back in a couple years. I’m just floored by the difference in our electric bills. Running it at 110deg most the day (change temp schedule via Wi-Fi). It comes on to 125deg (otherwise we run out of hot water) around 3pm-7:30pm(back down to 110deg normally just as 2nd person takes their shower).We’ve gotten in the habit of trying to run dw and take showers only in this window. It’s in the garage so we run it on heat pump only in the summer as it runs efficiently in a hot humid garage. In the winter we run it on energy saver (elements and heat pump). Highly recommend especially if your state offers a rebate.
Congrats! I agree !
Your report on your Rheem Hybrid heat pump was very helpful in getting me closer to which model or heat pump or tankless. I currently have a 220 VAC unit and a Bradford White powered vent unit and both are 25 years old. The electric unit is just starting to weep and soon will throw up.
Great, I’m glad it helped a little. Not a perfect science here, but I’m glad it helped !
Enjoy your new water heater ! Ha
Mike
Hello Mike, I installed my Hybrid back in Nov 2022. My W/H died after a hurricane in SWFL. Your video is what convinced me to purchase the 50gal model and self installed in my garage, so a Big Thanks. We get a lot of sediment in our water so i went a step further and installed a filter before the water enters the tank to cut down on having to flush the tank. It is now May 2024 and I drained and flushed tank for the first time and found no sediment coming out of the bottom out of the tank.
I definitely noticed a savings. I havent had any performance issues. I used the app to schedule for our needs and used the OnDemand feature in the morning for 1-2 hours. Only issue Ive come across is occasionally drops off the wifi but reconnects on its own. My next step is to see how the anode rode is holding up. I plan to switch to a powered Anode rod which supposedly will out last the water heater.
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Video on how much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > th-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/w-d-xo.html
Video on the Eco Net App > th-cam.com/video/mKgP9M-EipA/w-d-xo.html
Video on how loud is the unit > th-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/w-d-xo.html
Video on Hybrid Water Heater Maintenance > th-cam.com/video/iYbIsXKYC_Q/w-d-xo.html
What about the noise?
@@frankcarrizo7799 Good call, i updated the links above. But here's a video on noise >
Video on how loud is the unit > th-cam.com/video/NQYMfRjfJWM/w-d-xo.html
if you don't want the heat pump to cool up your basement you can always vent out the cool air . thats what I did on my 80 gallons hybrid . thanks for your videos very well done.. im going to put my water temperature on schedule now thanks to your video. very nice of you ..
To be clear, in cool winter climates you would only want to vent it to an inside location that might have excessive heat. If you vent it outside then an equal amount of cold outside air will be drawn into the house. And my guess is that for most of the time in the winter the outside air is colder than the air coming from the water heater outlet.
I plan on ducting into the return air of my hvac system and also outside with a damper to switch between the two and that way during the summer get some free cooling when water heaters working and outside in colder temperatures. Problem solved.
THis is a great setup ! When exhausted to the outside you need to be careful you don’t cause negative pressure situation- which pulls cold air into the house or if you have a fireplace it could pull the smoke into the house. .... just something to consider and why I haven’t done it.
Btw - I’m going to do a video on this. Pls subscribe so you don’t miss ! Thanks for your comment !
Mike
BRILLIANT!
I just installed one in my garage to heat the floor and also I'll be venting and mine out the wall. And using the cold air for the intake.
Terrible idea, as an a.c. tech, just my opinion
Thanks for this informative video! I'd like to respond to your rhetorical question towards the end-- "Why install a HPWH if you have a gas furnace--just install a gas water heater". The reason is to stop using gas to heat your water as one step in the process to go all electric. That's what I'm doing, starting with water heaters, then I'll replace the gas furnace and AC units with air source heat pumps to do both, then add rooftop solar, induction cooktop, battery backup, EV and charging infrastructure, and be done with both fossil gas and my utility. That's why :)
Makes sense !
Thanks
Mike
I would be tempted to be far more aggressive with the setback. You probably only need to heat it once in the morning for showers. There is probably enough hot in the tank for the rest of the day after that. I saved about $25/mth running a standard electric that way.
Equid0X - I appreciate the comment and the idea. This is a good idea, i'll add to my bucket of experimenting. I have some other things i'm trying to.
Appreciate you watching !
Thanks
Mike
I'm only here because I was in need of a new water heater. When I saw the $1600 price on one these I had to try and understand why! I've personally crunched the numbers and there is just no way this makes any financial sense whatsoever! Good for you at finding a way to make you think your saving money somehow.
make sure you check for local rebates, like from your electric supplier. i forgot to mention this in the video.
@@FamilyDIYtv well I went with a tankless gas water heater. It's amazing! Never run out of hot water and it's cheaper than electric.
you could simply attach a flex insulated air-conditioning duct and redirect the cold air from the heat pump outside, or up into the attic, or elsewhere. When you WANT the cool air, simply remove it temporarily.
would have to run 2 one for return and 1 for supply or else air in room will get very stale
Agree it's an option ! One size doesn't fit all tho ! Thanks for watching, here's an updated video on venting.
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
So DIYer here,Not a plumber, located south Florida, installed unit Rheem 50 gallon, in Garage. Temps & humidity in garage ,in summertime are unbelievable , 89 temp , 70 or 80% humidity. in "wintertime" here south fl , on some days it can mildly cool off garage, but not in summertim, maybe 80 gallon unit , anyway installed maybe 5 or 6 years ago when first became available, think it cut $25 to $ 30 monthly off my bill, only 2 people mostly in here. When visitors come( thats a thing in Florida) i need to change to High demand mode, both elements and compressor run, but zero issues supply hot water. Th main control board blew out after first 2 years, we have insane amount of lightening here for 7 or 8 months, so covered under Warranty took 2 weeks to send me board, in meantime i rigged the element , by direct wiring to 240 and energized about 10 minutes , water was hot, pita , but did the job. Later installed whole house surge unit in Panel, Breaker. I noticed in many Videos that people have not installed the required ?? Hot Water Expansion Tank, i think is code required most everyplace, cost like $50.00, Not a licensed plumber, anyway its been great addition, i read the WIFI app not too good.
Frank - that's awesome ! rigging the element is impressive, not sure i'd know how to do that, but sometimes when your forced to figure something out - you do ! I always live by the words of an old professor - "someone somewhere figured it out, why not you!". The expansion tank is required in my house because i have a check valve on my incoming water supply, if a house doesn't have it, then there's no need. I need to install a whole house surge - which one did you use ? was it hard to install ?
Thanks
Mike
I have had this water heater for a week and a half now and aside from the added noise in my den the cold has not been much of an issue, we are low water use family so I am unsure if that is helping us, but the den is about 2-3 degrees cooler which in some senses works for us because its used as a workout room (with an outside temp of 50) , and it is about 250 square feet. I will say its humming can be heard ( not bad, but a faint hum) in our living room due to the house only being 1200 square feet total and it being inside a converted garage to a den, so its basically inside the house. We are averaging 3.5 to 4 kilowatts a day on energy saver mode and in Washington that is 30-40 cents.
I’d be interested to here if it impacts the temp in the middle of the winter - like Dec-Feb.
I'll give an update when the outside temp hits 40-45 daytime and 35-40 night time, which is normal for us in November and Dec.
Its been well in the 30 at night (35-39) and no real difference than when installed. Other then the hum of it running and our den being slightly cooler, I think non noticeable now with our heatpump heater running. During the day it is about 45. I will keep updates coming. Next month going into January is when our 25-35 degree nights start.
Actually, Heat Pump Only mode uses less energy than "Energy Saver" mode. It is some odd testing regulation that forces the name apparently. My family of 5 averages 2 kWh of water heating per day.
I installed the same 50 gal unit in my garage 3 years ago and it has already paid for itself, and will pay for 2 more before the 10 year warranty expires! One problem I see with your cost savings math is that you took 30% of your entire electric bill to calculate the water heater savings. As you said, your bill depends on several variables and you've also made other cost saving improvements that affected your bill. I think it would most accurate to multiply your total kWh usage from the water heater by the price/kWh.
Since my garage will drop into the 40's in the winter, I cut a hole in the wall behind it to vent the intake to pull from my laundry room for even more efficiency. This has been my best investment after my solar system install earlier in 2019.
I’m glad it worked out for you ! I feel bad for the people that comment they got one and it’s been terrible. That’s sad!
You violated the fire code by cutting a hole in your garage wall, if your car catches fire you just enabled the speed at which the fire will spread to the interior of your house.
In Florida I think they use black pvc on the roof , a holding tank, and an elec. water pump to circulate.
Also if the WH is in the garage the ambient heat exchanger will be much better.
I did what they do in Europe and Philippines, I installed a $150 propane on demand heater in each of 3 bathrooms and the kitchen; very cheap to operate, and if one fails, it's just another $150 to replace it
NICE ! i like it
get yourself a high high efficiency mini split put one head in the basement. this unit should be 24Seer or higher with ability to heat down to -22. Depending on the type of electric HVAC you have this heat pump unit would offset enough of the furnace costs with the savings and still have positive savings after conditioning the basement. Depending on the basements size and your ability to install the mini split or at least do everything but the line set and have a AC guy do just that part you could get away with around 2-2.5K for the unit if you need 15-18K btu.Dont go to small with it though the smaller the BTU output of the heatpump they tends to drop off the heat output in cold temps to less than 10K at 0F. I wish i new the size of the basement but i think you need 12-18K btu to do what i am thinking. Dont think it isnt worth it either because heat rises as well as goes to cold so the warmer the basement the warmer the entire house is. Plus if you have cold air return in the basement for the furnace your already sharing that mini splits heat to the entire house and in the summer months you wont even need to run the mini split. I know it sounds counter intuitive but so doesnt robbing your living space for heat to heat hot water lol. The right mini split will still keep you at a positive savings on the bill if you have a standard old style non (invertor/multi speed compressor) furnace. Another option is out there and that is looking into the new whole house furnaces with this tech in them they have ones out now you just pull your air handler and plop theirs in retaining your AUX heat components.
Thanks for this information. Facing the need to replace a passive solar water heating panel for the third time in 15 years, at the cost of $3K - I had the solar system removed and am now researching what to replace it with. I live in Florida, the water heater is in the garage and with the benefit of cold air being pumped into the hot garage space, this sounds like the perfect solution.
Yes it does ! I hope it works out for ya !
Thanks for watching
Mike
I'm not sure what you have going on in the basement but maybe add a refrigerator or an Ice maker next to the water heater. They pump out some heat!
this is not a bad idea !
Hey that's a great idea!
This is PERFECT for Florida. Having a cool garage. Its like they are meant for each other.
Had the board go out twice and already replaced the top element. It’s 2.5 years old. The unit has a lot of issues. Rheem is okay at sending parts out, but you’ll be without hot water for a week. You may want to get a board and have it on hand (not hard to replace). The unit will heat with only one element so that wasn’t a big deal. I wouldn’t expect these units to last longer then 10 years.
Tom - I've heard of this happening, but lucky I haven't had that issue. it's been an adventure tho, ill tell you that! Lol
Thanks
Mike
I had the board replaced, the water sensor on the bottom replaced and the screen unit replaced. Still get error codes on mine.
@@davidmassey3607 This is my concern. Any cost savings could quickly disappear depending on Rheem's warranty support and labor costs, not to mention major inconvenience. I was all set to purchase a Rheem Marathon WH, but reading about so many water leaks within the sealed tank and Rheem's less than stellar warranty support.
I have the 80 gallon version and use 4500 gallons a month (not all Hot water) and it cost me .45 cents a day to operate. I also vented exhaust air from heat pump into a y fitting that i can vent outside in the winter time or into the return air of my AHU system for summer and get free cooling from water tank while heating water. Love mine.
Robert, Thanks for sharing this was my plan but I decided against it, but I'm glad it working for you. I made an updated video on venting if your interested ! Thanks again for watching and thanks for your comment and ideas !!!
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks
Mike
A couple of things. 1) even if you have gas you can do this to have less impact on the environment. Even counting losses from electric generation this is better for the environment. 2) a mixing valve will help you maintain constant water temperature at the tap in the house. 3) If you have solar then you can schedule operation to coincide with when the solar is producing electricity and then your payback is almost immediate. 4) If you live in a place that charges a different price at different times of the day (and you don't have solar) you can schedule it to only heat water when electricity is cheap and avoid it operating in the high cost period of the day. 5) although it is cooling the room it is also dehumidifying your basement.
Mine consumes about 3.5 kw daily in winter, and we are 5 in home. Currently, I am taking the warm air from attic and dumping cool air back there. Plan is to use a double dumper to use the cool air in summer and dump it in winter.
I live in Texas where I have a gas heater. It's 10 years old seems to be asking for replacement (it's rated at just under $300 per year in fuel). The gas tank vents above into the attic out the roof. Instead, I could vent the hybrid up the attic into the room upstairs a foot away. (Insulate the vent). If it could give a couple degrees of relief to the single upstairs bonus room, that'd be awesome. Seems as if a series of input dampers (input air from the garage or the above attic) and output dampers (into the house, into the garage, out the roof) would be amazing.
Seems like a cool setup !!!
0:50 I was listening with my headphones and thought it was my own kid saying he needed to go poop lol. Joys of being a dad
Hahahah! Yeah the kids love to yell and stomp around the house when we're filming. But wouldn't change it for the world ! Thanks for the comment and thanks for watching !
So what did your average heating bill do after you installed this? The heat from inside your home is what is actually heating the hot water.
Also the 4.0 efficiency for the water heater far exceeds any natural gas heat source when it's at 100 percent efficiency. That changes with temperature. You need to look at the efficiency curve and decide when it's best to switch to the electric mode. It will work in the north too. Just will take longer to cover its own costs. As I watched the video you literally said the same thing. Excellent video and explanation
Mike, I solved your too much cold air problem. 1st off - job well done explaining. Thanks much! We are all learning. Below are many points for anybody wanting to know more so here is the deal: Sizing, rebates, install tips, what to know, some pros and cons: (Mike see comment "B ")
A) Recommend an install of a larger tank size for new installs. 50 vs 65gal. Adding 15gals. is more HW in reserve & that heat pump will heat, instead of electric backup, which only kicks in on high demand situations. Yes, you are heating larger volume, but it will save the electric heat units from kicking on. (The 65 is $400 more than the 50gal)
B) Watch this video with a Rheem factory rep. th-cam.com/video/ukv1cMp3vFI/w-d-xo.html
The same unit can be connected to air ducts.(The video is 3-4yrs old, hope Rheem didn't change ducting ability!) IN WINTER You can vent the cool exhaust air directly out of the house. IN SUMMER Disconnect and temporarily take out a section of duct to keep cool dehumidifed air in basement (or garage)! Love it!
Ability to cool a space depends on size AND how frequently your unit runs! 2 people showering is not same a 4 people! Morning showers activate the unit and cool a space, but don't expect the same cooling on a hot afternoon when nobody has created significant demand! Its basics people! Stop asking "what can I expect"? How many BTUs? Doesn't matter if unit aint running much! HOWEVER, I think these do cool an average space a few degrees. Helping maintain demumidified air is awesome and in many respects feels better to us humans than a few degrees difference (plus no rusted items in storage, no musty smells= huge!)
Cutting a hole in a garage wall for ducting is easy, but not so in a basement. (You would need a portion of basement wall exposed and above grade. Maybe remove/retrofit a small basement window to route duct work OR make a duct sized hole in basement ceiling to 1st floor and 90-degree it outside, hide w/ sheetrock or put inside closet). Think about transitioning round duct to rectangular if needed. No downsizing of ducts. You need to have no resistance for the pump's fan to move enough air. Also duct run has to be a short run to outside. For longer runs add a mid-stream inline powered vent fan (few watts) which can be automatically turned on with heat pump running (a bit technical, it can be done, but don't ask me). So duct the exhaust and leave unit's intake alone.
B1) These units use electricty to heat in high demand times, or when the ambient air temp is too low to keep up. Recommend the 30amp tank over the 15amp. When electric is needed the 30-amp tank has a much faster recovery rate (look at the specs, big difference !). Also realize the $$ cost of a new electric circuit and make sure you have room in your main panel.
C) 120-122-degrees in not enough! Recommend turning up the temperature setting even higher during your daytime use hours if u are still short on demand. Remember the cheaper to run heat pump is doing the storage cheaply not the electric elements.
C1) I'm still learning about HW tanks and deadly Legionnaires Disease bacteria, but it is true water temperatures of 120°F does not kill the Legionella bacteria; a hot water temperature of 140°F is required at which Legionellae dies in 32 minutes. Hence it is recommended that water heaters be set at a safe hot water temperature of 140°F. FOR all you super Green People who want to set your tank super low, think again. Some conditions and environments, not all, can make your tank a breeding ground. What are the chances? I have no idea, but I'm ptting the info out there for people to learn for themselves.
D) U are 100% correct putting these things in an already hot boiler room is the most efficient in winter as the air is pre-heated. Note: Units must have ample air volume per manufacturer (100 cubic feet) This is why if you put tank in a small closet you need to vent the closet significantly or add the ducts connecting outside the closet.
E) Your install is good, but buyers need to be aware that old retrofit water connections coming from above the unit need to be moved out of the way above the new unit. The heat pump will likely need repair at some point and needs more than 15" to get the cover off. Do the install correct the 1st time.
F) If diode needs replacement in years later see comment E! The diode is a bitch to get at. Most basements don't have ceiling clearance to fit a long diode out the top so it needs to come out 2 ft or so, be clamped (so it won't retract) cut in two or three, and be removed for replacement with a jointed diode (flexible one)
G) The rebates in NYC metro area are $1000 From Con Edison and $300 tax credit. Your $1300 unit at Home Depot (don't know why your paid 1600 in u analysis unless u included fittings, condensation water pump, etc)
H) For people whose tank has died the replacement cost is 1300 less cost of cheap electric tank (say $500) cause everybody needs hot water. As an upgrade to replace a working tank u have then full cost is relevant.
I) BE AWARE - These Rheem units put off about 50-decibels of noise (about same as a newer dishwasher, but much lower than a window a/c unit). Remember decibels get exponentially loader and have a scale (60db is twice the amount of sound as 50db). Also these units give off some vibration. I have read, but have NOT confirmed, that final pipe connections need to be flex, braided hose, or pex connections (and maybe PVC) to not transfer the vibration to your rigid copper lines. I believe in eathquake prone west coast code is flexible lines regardless for all tank types. Somebody let me know if these heat pump units require it?
J) Don't forget these units need to be connected to a drain for the condesation water that's collected. This is done with a $40-50 condensing pump that turns on when it senses water and pumps to a drain (upwards if needed). IF you don't need a pump, don't forget to add a cleanout point when connecting the line to the tank (if done in any rigid pipe type, pex included) The line is not under pressure so it can be left open or capped, but the condensation lines over time have a nasty habit of getting clogged with kunk and scum. A cleanout will make the job easy to snake out if you are installing rigid pipe for this.
J) Supposedly, YES, you can put a duct/hole in your ceiling and draw hot attic air downward to feed the heat pump in the hot summer months (very efficient), but I do wonder about the maximum duct length allowed that the unit can "pull" in enough air to feed itself? Also remember to avoid doing 90' degree turns in the run as they add resistence (same thing as a long clothes dryer vent, which then takes longer to dry clothes and burns out heat elements). I'm not going to be the guy that tries out this method, but I am curious how many have failed to get the results they wanted?
For people who want to put this in an attic don't! (With the exception If this is a replacement for an old unit, then maybe?) But for a new install the problems of getting it into the attic, future service access, the heavy filled weight, the noise vibration, the plumbing and electrical required, and no additional ceiling height for later service fixes (replacing diode or getting heat pump cover off) you are creating problems. The unit also has to be in a conditioned space (always above 40-degrees for the pump to even have a chance to get water hot enough for showers, otherwise it will use electricity to heat up at same cost as a pure electric tank. Also pipes freeze in cold climates in unconditioned attics. Plus you need to clean the air filter screen on these things monthly at a minimum (top unit access too).
I have seen to many "Green People" wanting to put it in a hot attic to cool thier house (heat rises) but they don't have a clue what conditioned means! For those people educate yourself! AND don't put pipes and a device with 50 gallons of water subject to catastrophic failure above your entire living space! Can you say MASSIVE water Damage!
K) I remain concerned about the complexity of these units (too many points of failure), the heat pump, circuit panels, led screen are all 1 more thing that can break. Reliability is priceless! A happy family and wife not bitching about cold showers is priceless too!. A 10 year warranty is not awesome (compared to lifetime warranties offered on indirect HW tanks for the same price if you can do indirect). These units only appear to have about a 10 yr history for broader adopted residential use. That really isn't that long for us pigeons to know rates of failure that occured less than the warranty period..
In 10 years I doubt the rebates currently offered will be available so replacement cost might be full price when the time comes. Early adopters who like to brag about "how many cents per KW hour" should always look at long term operatiing costs! The chance for just 1 additional repair during lifespace will eat most $$$ savings! Not denying these are good for the environment and reducing carbon, but there are other things to factor in your decision.
Thankyou for your comment a lot of great information here !!! Thanks so much
F) you mean anode?
I bought the same exact unit and got $800 instant rebate from Eversource at Home Depot in Connecticut. Plus, $400 federal tax credit when you file taxes. List price was $1400 in March of 2020 when I bought it. And I am saving on my monthly electric bill. Before I had an 80 gallon electric tank heater that ate up the electricity.
Great deal man !
To address the problem of heat pump mode cooling your basement too much in the winter, instead of running it in electric/resistive heat mode, maybe it would be worthwhile to instead spend a small amount to duct the cold output air to the outside. Then during the warm months, disconnect or divert that cold output back into the basement (or other parts of the house the could use it). The ducting is a one time modest expense (especially if you don't buy the ridiculously overpriced rheem outlet duct adapter) that provides the valuable options needed to continue to achieve maximum savings by using heat pump mode.
Hello - I appreciate the idea.
I did a video on this because this was a very common comment, and makes sense, but it's not a one size fits all solution. I appreciate the comment
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Mike
Where does the make up air come from? Outside?
I am in the north and just installed the unit in a second home. I plan to duct both the input and output vents to help cool my house in the summer and draw heat from outside in the summer to make it more efficient. It is in an unused basement so cooling the room in the winter is not a big deal. A byproduct of it is that it dehumidifies the area allowing me to no longer run a dedicated dehumidifier. I just need to find a duct splitter so I can direct input and outputs based upon the season.
Tom, that’s awesome !
this is why i didn’t duct mine
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
i saw another video they ducted the exhaust with a splitter. so in the summer the cold air comes in, winter, blows it out
Yep that's an option agree ! Def considered but it not as simple as just running a duct to the outside. I'll post video concerning this. Can cause a dangerous situation by just running a duct to the outside.
@@FamilyDIYtv You need a duct to bring outside air in and one to take the 'exhaust' out. Otherwise, you'll be pumping your heated/conditioned air outside.
I just heard about the hybrids and came across your video in my research! I really liked that you explained where you were 6 months ago, what you learned and all your savings research! thank you for helping me make my decision. Too bad you don't live here in FL so you could install it for me!
Lol ! I wish I lived in Florida - For multiple reasons - ha.
Thanks for the nice comment and good luck,
Mike
There is a $300 federal tax credit for HPWH and there should be a local utility rebate that will speed up your payback. I got a total of $600 in rebates. I installed mine in June 2019 from nat gas. I have solar so I pay zero for electric and am saving about $25 in gas per month.
Any thought to duct the outlet air outside?
Where are you located and how did it do last winter? Is the heater in a conditioned or unconditioned place?
I did exactly what you did by switching from Nat gas to this model due to excess solar production.
My old heater was power vented and expelled a lot of air out of the house while heating. Even though my 80 gallon Rheem cools the basement about 3 degrees during operation, I'm wondering if it will actually be warmer this winter since cold outdoor air won't be drawn into the basement to replace the air that was being expelled. Food for thought I suppose.
Do you know what the form # is for the rebate?? Thanx
I got a 350 rebate from my electric company on this, I didn't bring it up because not everyone has this option, but I think I should have. darn...
@@FamilyDIYtv In addition to the local rebates from the utility companies, there is a federal tax credit of $300 that everyone should qualify for. As of right now, it expires at the end of the year so your 2020 tax return will be the last chance to use it. You will need to fill out IRS Form 5695 with your tax return.
@@brianmonroe8715 you do man ! i'll definitely check this out at tax time. I did apply d for a federal rebate a few years back when I installed a new furnace and since then I haven't been able to claim anything on federal taxes(i maxed out), hoping this is another form. Thanks for the headsup ! pinning this one
I live in the north and thinking about getting a hybrid water heater when it's time to replace the existing one. Even though we have a gas furnace and water heater, it's actually propane, not natural gas, so can be quite expensive to run. The heater will be in an unfinished section of our basement (the rest of which is finished), next to the furnace. So, I can close the door to that room which should reduce the cooling effect on the rest of the basement in the colder months.
I think this will also be a benefit in the summer months when it gets quite humid in the basement and the dehumidifier is constantly running.
sounds like this makes sense for you !
good luck !
Mike
Hey I did some research on rebates and I found that my utility company is offering rebates and you can claim this on your federal tax return as well, yay
Thumbs up for sharing the data. I love that you used kWh data so I can do my own calculation. Very helpful. Thank you.
Yes - was hoping that would help!
Efficency Maine website has
Energy efficiency Maine has a good website that includes calculators The one for Hot Water Heat Pumps let’s you set variables for source water temp, water temp target, gallons per day cost per kWh, ambient temp target . You can Leo see how it comparison with different fuel type systems
From other comments I think some are using kWh cost but be sure to use total kWh delivery charge with all fees etc. for your true cost.
From a cost savings, and energy efficiency perspective I would strongly recommend if possible you own a Solar Electric System and you then lock in you electric cost for Heating / AC with Heat Pump, Domestic Hot Water, Residential Electric needs etc. Take advantage of Federal, State nd Utility Rebates. Swap out your utility bills to pay off your solar system which should happen in 5 to 7 years. The Solar is Free forever and the Rooftop Solar is very durable capital equipment with no moving parts usually warranted for 25 years. Pay yourself first!
Finally the video was great but the App for the heat pump gives you total control for savings potential, efficiency and comfort if you look at the data and think about when you heat the water as well as when you don’t. Reheating water when you are asleep or not usually home etc. is a waste of your money.
Banger info my guy
Thanks ! Appreciate the comment !
Happy new year
Mike
Thanks for breaking it down, I’m in South Texas and considering the heat pump water heater. My conventional water heater needs to be replaced. One of the pluses I see is the cooling byproduct which would be a welcome in our hot garage. Probably help the 2nd refrigerator be more efficient too, I hope. Thanks!
Hi, yes i agree with you ! Thanks for watching !!
-Mike
@@FamilyDIYtv We just had our hybrid installed. Since it's just my husband and myself, we went from a 50 gallon conventional electric heater to a 40 gallon hybrid. We do seem to have a problem trying to get our wi-fi signal to the garage on the far end of the house. So... that will be something we'll have to work on. But so far, great at providing hot water - it does seem to take a bit longer, but not enough to make a difference. I like the features on the Rheem pro terra - we can choose heat pump or "regular" heat. It has a vacation away feature - all by wifi (once we figure it out). The "humming" someone mentioned, is insignificant, even when you are in the garage. And it only makes noise when it is actively heating. So far, so good. Will see if it makes a difference in my electric bill!
@@SandyKTX53 might want to look into a mesh wifi system. That will help with your connection issues.
Thanks for watching
Mike
I wish they would make this unit with a plastic tank... then it would last longer than 9 years
that's my gripe with rheem
rheem steel tanks fail early. not fully glass lined.
Thank you so much for your feedback on your hybrid water heater! I'm also looking at one and I live in Minnesota. I agree with you, I may need to turn it off for a couple, three months when it is very cold. One note, there are some federal and local credits for purchasing a hybrid electric water heater. This helps offset the cost, as well. Thank you, Mark
You could duct it in to your cold air return on your furnace in the winter
This is not a bad idea. I’ll thing about this
I believe Rheem says specifically NOT to do this in the installation manual.
Need to just vent outside.
Got mine installed professionally. AO smith 67 gallon. My plumber set it to 140f and installed a mixing valve. You should set the temps higher and install a mixing valve if you don't have one. I have 3 people in my home currently. No issues with running out of hot water whatsoever. My basement also gets very hot and humid over the summer. It helped substantially with the humidity and heat in the basement. Also keep in mind the utility company gives a rebate for a heat pump water heater. It's a no brainer getting one of these installed if its in a basement or garage imo.
we are considering this particular hot water heater. We don't think it will work for us because of the cold air element/where the unit would need to be...this video was excellent. he directly, without going overboard in talking about it, addressed the issues that were on the top of our list thank you
Thankyou for watching, glad it helped !
Look at getting a hybrid or a tankless. tankless you can adjust the temperature on demand for different hot water jobs.
I just bought a house in Augusta ME . The home is super energy efficient. It was built in 2021. It has 3 bathrooms with showers. Half the basement is finished. The unfinished part is about 800 sqft where the hybrid heat pump hot water heater is. It is insane cold. I’m going to finish out that half of the basement and rip that BS out of there. I’m replacing it with a tankless propane water heater. Sometimes comfort is worth more than a few extra bucks. I’m from Texas and down there it would be nice to have an Air Conditioner in my garage but it no freaking good for a New England basement
Good for watching this video, and thank you for that. I almost go with this hybrid Heatpump system, but now it changed my mind because of that cold air it will effect my basement temperature.
I made decisions now to go with electric only and that is still a RHEEM MODEL: PROE50 T2 RH92 CL this one will use electric heat only and full amp load is about 18 amps. Please check it out guys.
Yeah it a tough call. I kinda wish I went that route.
Heat pump water heaters recover slowly, so more storage is better, sizing is important. the next thing is that they need space! The larger the room they are in, the smaller the impact will be. Never put one in a closet! The folks talking about server racks and home theater systems are spot on, where do you have excess heat in your home? what about the attic? etc...
agree
Thanks so much! You answered all my questions. We live in Tennessee and look forward to the cool air in our garage.
Glad it was helpful!
Great update video! I installed this same rheem about a month ago. These units are louder than I thought it would be. I had to turn on electric mode from 10 pm to 2am because it was keeping me up at night. The water heater is in the garage on the opposite side of the master bedroom. My electric bill runs around 100 in western Oregon. I can't wait to see the electric bill!
Very nice!
@@FamilyDIYtv I didn't save as much as I'd thought. I'm located in the pacific nw. I saved around 7%. Electric prices here are pretty low to begin with .058 per killowatt hour. Temps have been a below freezing for a few days last month. I'm sure I'll see bigger savings in the warmer months
I'm in Michigan are electric prices are .12 cents. If you use it for heat you pay
7 1/2 cents PKH on a separate meter. I thought my electric was high.
If you are to accurately determine the "payback", I suggest that you take the difference between (i) the cost of a direct replacement of your existing (gas?/electric?) water heater, and (ii) the higher cost of this new hybrid unit. It is the amortization of the difference that gives you a more accurate calculation of your payback period. Why this calculation? Because you intend to have a water heater no matter what, so the question is just how much more will you spend (incremental cost) on the new, more efficient heat-pump system. Also, consider what gas is used in the system: Rheem/Ruud sent me a written note that they ProTerra Hybrid water heaters use R-134A; I assume their heat-pump only water heaters also use that gas.
NOTE 01: R-410A is being phased out because of its high Global Warming Potential (GWP). R-454B appears to be the replacement for R-410A; R32 is also coming online in the USA. Eventually, it appears that we may all have CO2 (carbon dioxide) in our compressors; CO2 (i) has zero (0.0) ODP (Ozone Depleting Potential) and (ii) is gauged as one (1.0) GWP (Global Warming Potential) over all periods of time.
NOTE 02: CO2 is the gas against which the GWPs of all other gases are calculated by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), based in Switzerland. R-11 is the gas against which the ODPs of all other gases is calculated.
NOTE 03: Presently, the only company that uses CO2 in its compressors appears to be Sanden, Japan's largest maker of air-conditioning compressors that is not owned by an automobile manufacturer. Sanden's "SanCO2" water-heater system is distributed in the USA by www.Eco2SystemsLLC.com (Michigan). Sanden only produces heat-pump hot-water systems and no HVAC units...yet. The great beauty of this system is that the heat-pump compressor is separate from the storage tank; the SanCO2 compressor is usually installed outside battery limits (i.e., outside the air envelope of the residence or commercial building).
Thanks for your video
Crap I didn't read any viewers comment before posting mine but I guess a lot of us think alike lol
On the topic of cold months I would think you could install a section of metal ducting with a good closable damper to the outside on the heatpump exhaust port and during the cold months open the damper so the cold exhaust air goes straight outside.
It doesn't have to be elaborate or complicated and you can even design it with another damper to direct the cold air back inside during hot months kind of like a 3 way valve. Just as a suggestion to get your thoughts going on a fix and it can be quick , simple and inexpensive. Good luck and God bless you and yours
appreciate the comment, check this video out to that exact topic
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
I installed a 50 gallon Rheem hybrid at my home. We saved $100 or more dollars per month on electrical bill so the unit paid for it's self in one year. I vented the intake from the attic witch can pull up to 140 degree air then vented the outtake cold air into our living room. Also we had a wedding party of 8 people stay at the house I turned to high recovery it supplied hot showers for all. very happy with this water heater.
Denny, Sound awesome !
thanks for sharing
-Mike
In CA we have gas water heaters, and we are changing to electric hybrid water heaters to work with our installed solar. even though "gas is cheaper" that price varies month-by-month and is an annual expense that cannot contribute to the ROI of the solar system. Moving to an electric water heater (hybrid) is also better if your water heater is needing to be replaced. Eventually, gas water heaters will not be available for purchase being prepared for this eventual switch is necessary
i think gas heater will always be available, at least in our lifetime, meaning in our lifetime we’ll probably be able to swap out a few gas WH’s. …maybe a few generations from now they’ll be finally phased out, but in Cally you never know, they could ban them next year ha, so I get your point 100%! i love the solar setup, just wish it made sense in PA, the ROI is just not there - YET ! actually was just talking about this with my kids and trying to explain what ROI meant because they want me to switch to solar- lol. great points ! thanks Chris !
Mike
Gas isn't always really cheaper... Taking the data from my latest Propane refill, I calculated that at $2.7 per gallon of propane, the price of electricity was equal to the price of propane for me (considering 91,600 BTU/gallon, and considering that I live in WA where electricity is pretty cheap). Since an electric water heater will have a better efficiency than a gas water heater (you're not losing heat by emitting combusted gas), then in some states it might already be cheaper to just use electricity, even without a heat pump.
Then of course if you add the geopolitical situation increasing the price of gas quicker than the price of electricity, that might become true in more and more places.
@@CorentinLeman good point. all this data was really pre covid, meaning before the covid price hike and price insanity that’s going on right now. it hard to know what cost what anymore. it’s sad really …
Thanks
Mike
Florida garage install, 50 gallon hybrid water heater...Plenty of hot water and nice dehumidifying and cooling for the garage which in turn kept that heat out of the house. Cold time of the year I put it in hybrid mode to help it keep up in a cold garage.
Getting ready to replace it after the compressor crapped out after 10 years. Sadly going to have to pay full price on this one, no rebate this time around from the power company.
sorry to hear about it crapping out !
you may want to try ducting the exhaust outside with a valve so u can let it vent outside in the winter and then flip it back inside when the weather is warmer.
In a northern climate venting to the attic could also work for some. A cool dry attic would help the roof last longer. In the winter most of them are already cool.
sounds great !!!
I read a lot of comments to" just duct the cold air outside", That would mean anytime the unit is running you would simply be exhausting conditioned air from the home. That air will have to be replaced and conditioned by the homes heating system. I live in NE PA and have had a HPWH in my lower level 4 car garage for 12 years. It will cool and dehumidify the garage in the summer and drop the temp about 10 degrees( from 50 to 40) in the winter. These water heaters are not for every home but i will say their energy usage is almost nothing. Retired master plumber with 49 years in the trade.
I installed my 50 gallon heater in 2019 for $1200. It has cost a total of $540 to operate over 4 years. My old unit was rated at $550/year. It would have cost me $2200 over that same time period. This unit has already paid for itself and is working on paying for the next unit!
I’m thinking about buying one of these.
I live in Canada in an old century home. So, yes, cold in the winter, but I have to deal with trying to cool the house and dehumidifying the basement in the warmer months.
So my plan was to enjoy the biproduct of it dehumidifying the basement, and run a vent up to my office to exhaust the cool air.
Triple duty it seems.
It's nice when you can leverage the by-product like that !
Since you're in a cold climate like me you may want to watch these...
Video on Venting this water heater to consider > th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Video on ho much does hybrid vs resistor mode (normal electric water heater mode) safe you on this unit > th-cam.com/video/8TRZEEVEkes/w-d-xo.html
Thanks
-Mike
Yes, I was wondering if I could actually vent out to the out doors in the winter. For example; is there an outdoor temp that would come back and hurt the unit or work against its efficiency thru the vent?
@@aroniousskywalker1765 you can definitely vent but the colder the incoming temp the less efficient the unit runs. Also the intake temp I believe can't be below 37, if I'm remembering correctly. I also linked some research papers in those videos I suggested.
Thanks for watching,
Mike
Family DIY tv
Well, I only intend on venting the cold air the unit expels. In the warm months, that would be to the main floor, and in the winter; outside the house.
The air the unit receives would be warm all year. Because, in the winter, my water utility area is right next to a man oil furnace. And the duct work (as well as the furnace itself tend to keep the basement warm even without venting a single outlet from the furnace.
So, I might as well take advantage of that - kind of wasted heat loss.
It’s a field stone cellar, not a conditioned space.
My only concern after watching your video, however, is that the unit would put out so much cold air, that I might have to vent from the furnace a little to keep the floors warm and the water pipes moderately warm
Mine is vented into my cold room which is sealed, works great as an AC unit to keep my summer veggies cold for storage
That's a great idea!
Pausing while looking at your kWH comparisons from 2019 to 2020. It's also worth noting that you saw that big of a drop while presumably your kids and maybe your or your wife were all stuck schooling or working from home which would result in an increase in kWh usage... despite that, you still went down.
tough to say, but that was before all the stuck at home stuff. think it's pretty close comparison, but so many variables. it's a best estimate.
It doesn't matter how little electricity bill I save.
I saved plenty. I only paid 999 on sale, regular price 1699, no sales tax in Oregon.
My power company gave me 600 dollar rebate. 300 dollar Federal rebate. 10% military rebate. They paid me 99 cents to haul it away 😆
Free air conditioning will be fantastic.
They are still on sale 12-7-2022.
Totally AGREE !!! Thanks for your service, i appreciate you !
-Mike
To fix the cooling issue you should install the factory vent kit on the exhaust and simply push the cold air outside.
th-cam.com/video/SHJLvfgpJWg/w-d-xo.html
Connect the exhaust and use heating duct to push it outside if space permits.
U can do that !
This is the first time I've heard mention of the HPWH unit cooling the air in the basement. Good to know. Makes me want to look more into that brand that separates the compressor by putting it outside.
I'm glad this helped you, there are ways around it tho... I've put them in some of my other videos. Thanks for watching
Mike
The dehumidification in the heat pump mode is also a benefit if you live in the south especially if it is in the garage or and attic. It can also convert the heat from my solar power inverter and just driven vehicles to heat my water.
Not sure how adversely it or not it would affect your electric bill but you wouldn’t have to keep it a high temperature for as many hours if you put it on high demand mode it will run the electric resistive heater but only when the heat pump won’t keep up.
I have a 2,000 sq ft ranch with a 2,000 sq ft basement. Because it is a big ranch and there is no hot water use in the middle of the house I am installing two Rheem 40 gallon units, one on each end for a better end user experience. I have a two stage 4 ton heat pump that manages to stay out of Aux heat until 0 F, it's only a year old. Buying a multi speed compressor with extra capacity really helps out with heating in the winter. The directions for the water heater tell you to not directly connect this to your HVAC system so I am installing return grills in the return duct that is near the hot water heaters and just routing the 8" flexible duct from the heat pumps right in front of it. I also wanted better recovery time and 2 heat pumps and 4 heating elements should do the job. At least this will end the wife running hot water in the half bath for 5 minutes so she has hot water for the washing machine. I also have a 7 Cu Ft vent-less Whirlpool hybrid heat pump dryer. For you folks considering venting your hot water heater outside do you have a dryer venting massive amounts of hot air outside during the winter? Since I plan on routing my hot water heaters into the intake I will not have a cold room or basement and I am leaving it at that. I also have 320 A service so I am not concerned if my 2 stage aux heat and all the heat pumps come on at the same time. I have the models with auto water shutoff and one will not be near a drain so I have a condensate pump. They will arrive 12/21 and I hope it all goes well. Can you claim the federal tax credit on one or both?
There may be more factors than just the new water heater affecting the KWH used. I have seen a rule thumb that says std water heaters account for about 12% of residential electricity usage. If that 12% is close, you were paying only about $29 per month for the old heater (12% X 243). The only way to know for sure would be to separately meter the water heater.
Agree !
These units track their own usage, so you know exactly how much energy you're using.
The fact it cools also would be great here. The water heater is in my garage and it's in the 90's there right now.
Agree ! It can definitely be a benefit in that situation.
I moved into my first house that has an old fuel oil hot water boiler that runs out radiator and our domestic hot water. Im thinking of getting one of these for the domestic hot water to stop getting cold later in the middle of a shower. So I can definitely understand the thought process of keep it near the furnace or boiler in the house because that’s what I’m planning on doing to utilize all the excess heat the boiler throws off
EXACTLY !
Oil fired boiler should produce plenty of domestic hot water. My diagnosis is that the fins have rotted off of your tankless coil and it needs to be replaced. You will get a few dollars scrap value for the old coil.
I thought I would follow up my original statement with some numbers. I am in Chicago; my 80-gallon rheem is in an uninsulated basement. (Rim joist is spray foamed, but walls are unfinished.
Oct 21, 90.87 kwh
Nov 21, 91.01 kwh
Dec 21, 91.77 kwh
Jan 22, 101.23 kwh
Feb 22, 86.8 kwh
So far, as of the 19th of March, I am at 78.59 kwh.
Now the bad. Sometimes, when we run the dishwasher, and either one or both of the clothes washers and or someone takes a shower, I have to bump it into high demand mode or we run out of hot water. I kind of fixed this temporarily by boosting the ramp to 130 degrees (I generally like to keep it at 120).
The permanent fix is I am having a plumber install a mixing valve to bring the temperature off the water leaving the heater down to 125 degrees, this will allow me to crank the water heater temperature up to 150 degrees, thus eliminating hot water shortages.
Doing some research on hybrid WHs, and just wanted to say this was helpful, thanks! That's cool (no real pun intended LOL) the unit keeps up with its energy usage through the app; really helps you see your usage. In my estimation of saving $300/yr for what I been looking at, still would pay for itself in 5-6 yrs. Even in the South, you kinda don't want an AC blowing someplace inconvenient on burrier days (such as laundry room where mine is), but if you have the option to turn off the heat pump mode during particular times, then you can really maximize when/how you use that feature along with the scheduling. Also, I believe the $300 fed tax credit is still a thing on these hybrid units as well, so there is that. Sounds like there's a learning curve on owning one till you get everything "just so".
You got it !!!! go for it !!
Just vent it outside with a selector to vent inside in summer if you basement is hot. I was going to say install a temperature mixing value (TMV) for safety reasons (compulsory) in a lot of countries to bring you hot water temperature down to the safe use range (50-60C) but you are only running it at 132F (55 Degrees C), which appears too low to even consider a mixing valve and probably means limited backup high demand storage.Don’t have too many stay over guests! NSW in Oz
I live on the gulf coast and my water heater is in my garage, so I'm definitely leaning towards this. My garage can get very hot during the summer due to my EV charging, so this can help counteract that. My complaint is that you only get the bigger rebate if you switch from gas, not traditional electric. The electric companies really don't care about you saving energy, they just want you to switch from gas.
Shawn - you have the ideal setup for this ! Good Luck !
Mike
Mine is in my garage. We also have the garage door insulated. Of course everyone’s set up is different, but we’ve only seen about a 8 degree difference. Every little bit is nice though.
Just invest in a vent attachment on the exit fan, and blow the cold air outside. Put a T on it, and set a vane into your house during the summer to help with A/C.
Considered this and made video on it. Link In description of video
I just purchased one I am waiting for it to arrive. I have found almost $750 in rebates for this unit. Rheem says there are $1050 in rebates for this unit. The rebates I found went into effect in Oct 2020. It sounds like you purchased it before that time. I am in New Jersey not far from you. I have a large basement which I do not need to heat. The reduced temperature will not effect me. I do need the dehumidifier effect for the spring, summer, and fall. I did find if you need a hot water heater in a hurry, it is not the unit to get it is 3 weeks to order from Home Depot. I am switching from gas. There are just two seniors living in my house. The hot water from the heat pump will do most of our hot water needs.
Gene! That's great news, good luck on your new purchase and thanks for watching ! A shinny new water heater is not the funnest thing to buy but if you have to buy one it fun to know it's super efficient and can be controlled via app !
Thanks for watching - Mike
Or redirect the output outside on the winter time and during the summer time you redirect it in the house. So you can cool it down. Air ducts :)
I like the idea of an air conditioner in my garage which is what these double as. They emit cold air.