Versus Series: Obi-Wan Kenobi Vs. Darth Talon
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- My analysis of Obi-Wan Kenobi will be drawn from his appearances in the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy and its tie-in novelizations, comic adaptations, and visual dictionaries, the 2003 Clone Wars Microseries and its tie-ins, in addition to his numerous appearances in the books, comics, and video games of the Expanded Universe. As I am focusing on the character within the timeframe of Revenge Of The Sith, I will be devoting most of my attention to Clone Wars-era material.
My analysis of Darth Talon will be drawn from her primary appearance in the Star Wars: Legacy comic series, specifically within the timeframe of the "War" arc, with additional information pulled from the Legacy Handbook and the Legacy-Era Campaign Guide. Background information on both combatants and the overall setting will be drawn from The Essential Guide To The Force, The New Essential Chronology, and the Power Of The Jedi Sourcebook, among others.
The idea for this match-up came from a surprisingly innocuous place: In my abridged versus video, Rahm Kota Vs. Darth Wredd, uploaded back in October of 2018, I cited Master Kenobi and Darth Talon as examples of archetypal members of their respectives organizations, and I found that the side-by-side images of the two I had arranged simply... clicked.
So with all of that out of the way, allow me to present Obi-Wan Kenobi Vs. Darth Talon.
- The Cestus Deception - [04:36], [18:50]
- Jedi Apprentice #1: The Rising Force - [04:40], [33:40], [33:44]
- The New Essential Chronology - [04:45], [33:52], [04:45], [06:11], [18:18], [14:05], [34:24]
- Mysteries of the Jedi, Obi-Wan Kenobi (Pg 58-59) - [05:10]
- Revenge of the Sith (novelization) - [05:26], [05:32], [15:57], [35:23], [37:01], [46:02], [05:46], [36:40], [38:28], [38:38], [17:12], [17:23], [17:59], [20:23], [36:22], [38:56], [46:42], [48:01], [36:47], [37:07], [37:10]
- The Complete Visual Dictionary (2006) - [06:47], [06:59], [06:54], [07:02], [14:31]
- The New Essential Guide to Alien Species - [08:15]
- Legacy Handbook (Issue 0), The Sith Empire, Darth Talon (Pg 5) - [09:03]
- The Jedi Path - [11:17], [15:23], [18:09], [34:50], [35:44], [36:01], [37:18], [37:29]
- Scourge - [11:56]
- Labyrinth of Evil - [14:12]. [17:55], [36:17], [46:56]
- Lightsabers: A Guide to Weapons of the Force (2010) - [14:21]
- Jedi Vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force - [14:27], [14:35]
- Fightsaber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat, (originally published in Star Wars Insider #62) - [15:09], [15:31]
- Fightsaber: Mastering the Art of Lightsaber Combat (online supplement), Form V: Shien/Djem So - [15:16]
- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords - [15:43]
- Legacy Era Campaign Guide - [21:51], [27:43], [41:31], [44:45], [24:15]
- The Essential Guide to Warfare - [22:37]
- Barely Tolerable: Alien Henchmen of the Empire, Part 2 (online supplement) - [24:19]
- Power of the Jedi Sourcebook - [35:05], [36:12]
- Attack of the Clones (novelization), Chapter 18 - [38:20]
"The attempt on my channel has left me scarred and deformed. But I assure you, my resolve has never been stronger."
"So this is how hackers die. To thunderous applause."
“The Jensaarai1 channel will be reorganised into the FIRST GALACTIC VERSUS-SERIES”
Later on:
“Your hype blinds you master yoda you’re not as skilled as you believe and Lord Vader is more Skilled than either of us”
“If so powerful you are why is your niman so sloppy”
Proceeds to draw
Emperor: I sense Exar Kun’s Bitch I mean lord Vader is in danger
"Hello there."
"Hello yourself."
"...um, are you here to fight or to tease?"
"Why not both?"
"I've got a bad feeling about this..."
"Oh, I've got a great feeling about this."
Who knows what evil lurks in the butt holes of men! Kenobi knows!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!
@@thegunslinger8806 Har frickin' har.
This is exactley how it would go XD
fun trivia: those last two quotes are also used by Connor and Duncan MacLeod during the final duel in Highlander Endgame
From my experience with both, this is probably how it would happen. My guess is that Ben would beat Talon, but let her go. She would remind him of Ventress.
Kenobi wins by charming Talon with his excellent flirting skills.
Nah, Talon counters with her sexual exploits as depicted in numerous pornos.
Stalemate.
@@thomasbrand2650
"Is that your lightsaber, or are you just that happy to see a gal like me?"
"So uncivilized."
@@thomasbrand2650 .........But do those KNOW THE POWER AGAINST THE HIGH GR-ahhhh never mind. Let someone else use that shit
@@youngsmitty347 Please, Obi-Wan's a player and Talon knows this. It's Bond and Pussy Galore all over again.
@@youngsmitty347 Kenobi's flirting skills are not on the levels of Cade's pimp hand and Shatterpoint/Dark Transfer amped dick.
Although I like TCW a lot more than you appear to, I have to agree with your rant at the beginning. It always bugged me to a high degree how the continuity didn’t match up with the movies. Without beating the dead horse that is General Grievous, I also would like to bring up the exchange between Skywalker and Dooku, the whole “my powers have doubled since the last time we’ve met” also being in line with your critiques, due to TCW, the last time they met was essentially last Thursday for them
I honestly like that though, cause you KNOW Obi and Dooku were SO judging Anakin for his shit talk, and Anakin IS so dang arrogant.
although the kid show thing is a nice ding, based on the seasons it was probably like 6 months to half a year. not that they care that much for keeping a strict timeline? but still. more reasonable then. force power probably should be more exponential growth then just steady accrual of new numbers type of thing anyway.
as your ability to draw more of the force in, and add more of your own force to it, as well as ability to channel more of the galaxy gradually grows.
considering how the sheer physical threats jedis and others are on the battlefield that outstrips anything in real world humanity bit, them running into each other makes SENSE with the fact that Dooku was target number 1 through the entire war, and Obi and Anakin were very much the poster boys.
Wind Sage Dragon I completely agree. I know some of these comments are purposely exaggerating, but the “every other Tuesday” thing is just plain false. This was a 3 year period, and the time between their duels was certainly rather long. And to top it off, it’s not like these characters actually fought every other episode. If you break it down, they didn’t actually have as many duels against each other as you would think.
+TheZandRproductions Beg your pardon but you're splitting hairs. The fact remains that Kenobi and Grievous fought several times throughout TCW. This means that TCW cannot be in canon with the movies. Why would Grievous say "I've been trained in your Jedi arts by Count Dooku" (clearly meant to intimidate Kenobi) if they had already fought several times? At that point he'd know it wouldn't work as an intimidation tactic.
Wright805 I totally see that and agree with you about that line, and it’s always bothered me knowing what happens in TCW. It doesn’t make sense why he would say that, you’re right. But just because a character said a single line doesn’t mean that everything else is considered non-canon, even if it doesn’t seem like it makes sense. I’m sure it’s something they simply forgot about while making the show.
TheZandRproductions The way the legends eu was structured though is that the movies and their novelizations are primary sources, so sources that contradict or don’t make sense in the context of the films is non-canon.
Wouldn't be a Connor video without 5 minutes of TCW bashing before it even begins. 🙄
Chris Purolover he’s right about TCW
I'm honestly getting sick of it.
Diana Barnett I think it needs to be said more personally. Too many are blind to TCW’s flaws.
well if he didn't do it he would have an army of tcw defenders coming in asking why he's not referencing tcw material for kenobi.
If he doesn’t like TCW, that’s fine by me. But I agree that his constant criticism of it in versus videos is getting a little old. All he needs to do is just say that he won’t be including TCW material because he doesn’t like how it handles certain characters. It should be enough.
Again, he’s free to dislike TCW if he wants.
The Dark Times are ending. Hope rises once more in the galaxy. The Jedi are returning. Good to have you back, Jensaarai.
I think the extra 20 years of sheer combat experience gives Kenobi a nearly insurmountable edge.
Furthermore, even if she has enough discipline and sheer will to keep fighting till far past the point of reason, Talon uses an energy intensive form, while Kenobi can easily conserve his energy. Unless she can get a decisive blow, her chances will only decrease over time until she makes a mistake, allowing Kenobi to be the first to defeat her in a pure lightsaber duel.
Here's something to think about, though, at least when it comes to experience: It's only tangible when being applied in tactics. It's not merely a stat-boosting number. It is seen through application of thought, word, and action. X amount of Ys of experience is only seen and felt as the characters apply what they have learned through action. Not saying you're incorrect. I agree that Kenobi is more than a match for Talon. Just trying to point out the trap of the intangible. Over the years I've seen many fall into it without fully considering how experience factors in, which is through fallible technique. Interesting, no?
Kenobi is capable of defeating her in a lightsaber only duel. However, I think Talon is more then capable to exploit Obi's weak force defences. As I believe she is the more powerful and deadlier force wielder of the two.
I am more hyped for Exar Kun Vs. Darth Bane than I am for Episode lX.
Jay Finch I love anything Darth Baine or Darth Zannah so yes
That would be a fight but I got a feeling i know who will win that one based on just from memory though he could prove them false.
Despite my agitation for exar kun, its definitely a matchup I'm more than curious to see. I'm hoping grey Jedi 91 does it though, I like jensaarai1's work but a fight like this definitely requires the kind of depth that grey Jedi 91 tends to reach in his vs vids.
so am i
@AzureAmaterasu Hey man I agree Darth Bane is my favorite sith lord but I can admit when he would lose a fight that and Bane has always had a problem with the unorthodox plus as on of his videos mentioned Exar Kun had style meant for those like Bane. I believe that was Vader vs Exar Kun. If it sounded like I was siding with Bane no sadly not a fight he could win.
Two of the sexiest Star Wars characters facing off against one another.
Yes sir Superman
Somebody call Axel Braun
I don't agree it's all about the Jar Jar Binks
Sexy
Alright who gave you the pink kryptonite?
When Obi-Wan is fighting Durge on Muunilinst, constantly chopping and moving forward it reminds me of Dooku’s observation of him using Shii-Cho against the Count. There’s nothing complicated about it, a beautiful demonstration of effective simplicity.
Come to think of it, I've always liked the idea that Obi-Wan had very little innate talent with the force. He much like Vader had a set of handicaps he had to overcome to become effective, but in overcoming these handicaps they grew past them. Obi Wan was never cut out for the sort of esoteric mastery that other Jedi displayed or massive displays of Force Power, but he made the most of a subtle touch.
He was still above average even for a Jedi with his blood count, just not near Yoda, Anakin and Luke who had the highest of their time if not ever recorded , just like he was one of the best duelist's , just cause your not in the top 1% ( of blood count force abilities ) being in the top 20% of Jedi is still pretty strong specially when u master your abilities, and as Duelist he was in top 1% right behind, Windup, Yoda, Palpatine and Dooku, him Anakin and Maul, Qui gon were 2nd tier but still top 1% remember he beat Vader, Maul twice, and was teamed with Anakin when Anakin killed Dooku, he was probably about 5 Years short of reaching his 10 to 20 year prime, and was the probably the best form 3 practicer of his Era if not who ever lived and was also great at form 1 and 4 ( people forget ) And he fought alot, yes he was a Rocky Balboa of Starwars but the son of a bitch did win he'd beat her 8 outta 10 times, and prime Malgus 6 or 7 outta 10 he's also the most underrated Jedi of his generation if not all time. Also one of if the not Jedi that fought with his saber the most in the clone wars, and probably in a poll of trad pre-quill/Original movies fans, long time fans but not as biggest fans of those that read the comics s regular fans between 35 and 75 I bet he's the most beloved Jedi, yeah yeah yeah, you people under 30 are always like Anakin or Qui-gon or Maul or some shit sorry he was the man, and needs a silver coin minted after him, like Ric Flair said to be the man you gotta beat the man and he neat the choosen one, also edge for athletic ability. ot so much, that's a draw.
Obi-Wan was still a prodigy much in the same vein people like dooku and yoda were. The idea that he has little innate talent in the force is stupid and not really supported by anything
@@austinford1530 It's supported by the various novels of jedi apprentice that detail his life as a padawan, or apparently you forgotten that novel existed as he was stated in both continuities, or legends at least, to be taken in as a baby and was nearly sent to the jedi agri corps because no one wanted to take him as a padawan.
Please read more than just simply watching the PT or TCW
@@lapplandkun9273 Him almost being sent to the AgriCorps was more due to mentality if anything. And he wouldn't be able to go toe to toe with Anakin on Mustafar if he didn't have innate force talent. And i hate TCW lol. haven't watched it in years, and yeah i am into the old EU lol
This is a falicy many people hold. Obi was a talented force user however as a guardian he wasn't as heavy in the subtleties but was a BEAST with the lightsaber. Using a lightsaber, he is still using the force just in a different way. Someone not strong in the force would not be able to fight well at all.
Random thought: could Obi-Wan have been influenced by Darth Maul in the sense that he adopted a similar back pedalling approach, allowing the opponent to aggressively drive him backwards until he was somewhere with the tactical advantage?
Against Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan Maul led them into confined quarters to hamper their ability to use their preferred Ataru style.
Against Grievous and Vader, Obi-Wan defended until an opportunity to counter presented itself or he had the tactical advantage (the high ground).
And on a note about the high ground. Vader had already executed a launching somersault when the duel began. However by this time Kenobi must have sensed that Vader was tiring and the second leap was quite simply lacking. This, in my opinion, is what contributed to Vader's defeat at the hands of Obi-Wan Kenobi. From the high ground Obi-Wan could better judge an effective counter attack and Vader had to somersault higher and further than at the start.
Plus Obi-Wan had used the same tactic against Darth Maul on Naboo years before, so he better than anyone understand how to counter against such a move.
It could possibly be that, but I think it was more that Maul had no other choice than it being fully a tactic. By that I mean his retreat. He was fighting 2 opponents at the same time. I think Kenobi's change was more down to him seeing Ataru fail his master and himself and thinking of a way to leave as few openings as possible.
Maul usely doesn't do something like that he's highly aggressive but he had to divide and conquer take the fight to a place of his choosing and let his opponent wear themselves down, it was mainly qui gon which worried maul as Maul believed him to be the second best duelist he had fought.
Sooooooo obi wan hangs onto the reactor grabs his lightsaber and cuts her in half?
Holy Content, Batman!
First Evan, now Connor? This foreshadows the reconvening of the Council! Oh, how long we have dwelled in the dark without their teachings!
There must be balance.
Perfectly balanced, as all things should be
Stop stealing my comments!
“I don’t even know who you are”
Be careful what you wish for. They may just come back to cut us off from the Force.
Legends all the way, just how it should be. Never stop advocating it's continued existence.
Heck yes!
You speak truth!
Truth!
Yes
Finally, some REAL Star Wars content and none of that Disney fan made stuff. Thank you, sir! Subscribed and waiting for your next amazing videos!
An elegant video from a more civilized TH-camr.
I agree with your points on the relationship between General Grievous and General Kenobi in the prequel media.
For over a thousand generations legends rained peace and justice to SW, before the dark times, before disney
Even before Disney, it didn't matter. But I don't agree with the unnecessary retcons to a lot of characters pre-Disney buy or the cherry picking of material ie General Thrwan in and Starkiller out. Worst of all was the character development of Obi-wan, it's a mess.
[4:00] Imagine if their outfits were switched...Kenobi would make a hot Sith.
Hell yes.
👀
The fact that this is not a pinned comment hurts
Joseph joestar: OOOOOOOOHHHHH NNNOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Never felt Halo music would fit so damn well with anything in Star Wars. I stand corrected. :D This is incredible. I've never sat through a video like this before and NOT swapped tabs while listening. Simply awesome. :D
Jenssarai,
I have been listening to you for many years. As a fellow star wars fan your analysis is very in depth and spot on. They need to make a star wars ( street fighter game 🎮) based on your analysis. Maybe have unlockable characters as you progress and complete curtain task in the game. You have inspired me to read more legacy era material.
Thank You
O.S.H
HEAD CANNON:
Revan
Darth Bane Trilogy
Knights of The old Republic 1&2
SWTOR ONLINE (EDITED)
SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE ( MOVIE )
7.Heir to The Empire ( MOVIE )
8.Dark Force Rising ( MOVIE )
9.Last Command ( MOVIE )
ENTIRE LEGACY ERA (MOVIES)
DISNEYS " STAR WARS " IS A MAJOR DISGRACE TO THE UNPARALLED BRILLIANCE OF GEORGE LUCAS. DISENY
IN MY OPINION NEEDS TO STICK TO WHAT THEY KNOW " TELLING FAIRY TALES" ABOUT PRINCES AND 👸. LEAVE STAR WARS TO THE NERDS.
Character: Exists in the new canon
Jensaarai: Let me demonstrate my hatred for the new canon
@@Jensaarai1 Meanwhile Mr Plinkett is pointing out "The prequels are still the most disappointing thing since my son."
Screw those awful Plinkett reviews. I think the Prequels and Original Trilogy are both equally mediocre compared to the Expanded Universe but those RLM reviews went overboard.
@@rawmaw7246 They're terrible reviews. The fact that so many Star wars "fans"/youtube movie critics and prequel haters hold those reviews in such high regard just shows how people don't really know what they're talking about
I've for real been watching your videos for like 7 years dude since I'm 10. I love them and your analysis and quality is exceptional. Keep it up man.
How time flies
@@raicattivo for real
@Darth Cameron yep same for me I was in 4th-5th grade I believe. I'm 17 now so almost half my life.
Damn I feel old now.
@@robgeorge4581 same bro
Darth talon during no nut november? it's unfair
So uncivilized
JP likes pineapple he is the chosen one, you MUST see it?!
Technically it'd be more unfair if this was posted in No Simp September... well, i'm probably wrong since I'm the one guy here who likes the new canon except for the sequel era.
Alema Rar vs Wolf Sazen. Both have survived engagements with some of the best duelists of their era’s and while not always able to defeat said masters, acquitted themselves well and managed to live to fight another day.
That'd be an interesting one for sure. Battle of the Wounded Warriors!
Watching this really makes me think that Shado Vao vs Asajj Ventress would be a really good fight, given all the comments in the comics about Vao being one of, if not, the best combatants in the Order and his seemingly highly specialized lightsaber.
As always, I love your versus videos. I really appreciate the in-depth analysis you provide, right down to mentioning what's in Kenobi's belt.
I love me some TCW bashing. Personally I always thought Talon's first showing was a plot-induced positive outlier, in order for Cade to reveal his powers she had to be able to quickly overwhelm Shado Vao, Wolf Sazen and a Skywalker (Fel technically) from the same generation as Cade, but with vastly more training, all together, when normally Vao alone would be fair competition.
dumbass. He's criticizing TCW, not bashing it. Big difference. And really, if you want to go ahead and bash, then how about I bring up all the shit legends has done?
Anakin and Obi-Wan facing Dooku and Grievous multiple times in TCW really does dilute the epicness of their final confrontations in ROTS. Durge was a good villain and an effective foil for Kenobi: the human tank versus the regenerating alien. Skywalker and Ventress spending the war both trying to impress their own respective masters.
Not many people like him, but Savage Opress could have been a primary villain as a Dark Acolyte in later seasons without the need to bring Darth Maul back from the dead. Maybe replace Durge with Opress later on (season 3 or 4 onwards) in preparation for Obi-Wan's one and only duel against Grievous on Utapau.
I agree, also the 2003 Clone Wars microseries does a much better job at linking episode 2 and 3.
Anakin fighting Dooku many times I feel is okay. I don't like how much Anakin struggles in that series. But it makes it interesting that Dooku was secretly a teacher to Anakin, and explains why Vader adopted many styles to form his own.
I'd go a step further and say the TCW 2008 is unequivocally incompatible with legends. Despite what the team insists, it changes so much and blatantly overrides pre existing lore to the point it can only effectively function in the "canon" timeline.
*Sees a TCW rant*
Goooooooooood. Your hate has made you powerful *Cheesy evil cackling*
For real though, awesome video and your rant does bring some good points
Shado Vao, Antares Draco, Cade Skywalker, certainly characters I'd love to see more in the vs series.
On the topic: awesome video and match-up. Going in I was quite certain that Obi-Wan is way too much for Talon, though I was also sure, you wouldn't tackle a match, where the outcome was indeed 100% predictable and even though Kenobi won, it was really an interessting road to this destination, that actually painted Talon in a very different light, far more positive light, then I myself have percieved her prior.
I have a request:
An'ya Kuro vs. Darth Traya.
(one villified the Force, while the other practically worshipped it's will)
(both had similar reputations with the Jedi, yet become drastically different individuals)
(both known for the variety of their abilities with the Force)
Title= "The Enigmatic Dark Mistresses"
I think Darth Traya would win. In lightsaber combat, she can use Form III to endure the Dark Woman’s Form IV attacks or catch her off guard with Trakata. An’ya Kuro powers of intangibility, stealth, teleportation and Plant Surge won’t factor in an even battlefield. Besides, Traya could end the fight with either Force grip, Force stun, or Force lightning
I've been waiting for a very detailed analysis of these two. You never disappoint.
Extremely interesting matchup and I love anything Darth Talon related
Micaiah Flores especially for...various reasons 😏😏😏
@@darylsdesigns6679 No
@@DropkickNationyes 😏
@@cb41503 No
Even though I'm a huge fan of TCW and Obi-Wan's arcs within it, I do share some frustration in him facing Grievous so much
Imagine mastering all 7 forms of lightsaber combat at the same level as obi wan’s mastery of Soresu
An unstoppable duelist
I'm so excited every time I see you've posted a new video. Wish you could do it more often
seeing as the comments are back on and the channel name has been changed back, I hope this means that you have gained full control of your channel back.
I have returned!
@@Jensaarai1 Great!
At Last You’ve Returned
For the next vs. Think you could do either:
Shaak'Ti vs. Darth Malak?
or
Exar Kun vs Darth Kryat?
I like the second one that would be interesting
Ive been waiting for Exar Kun vs Darth Krayt for years and have gone back and forth on that matchup.
Krayt ravages
Exar Kun Vs. Darth Bane will be next.
@@azronger7214 krayts jarkaiii would break kuns "oh so special" saberstaff to pieces along with kun.
as much as I like clone wars for what it does, The poor handling of Characters like Grievous are all but jokes
Starwarsdude8221991 indeed and Quinlan Vos
@@dimond360_ ikr they didn’t even give ventress a proper send off like they did in legends
In regards to your martial breakdown of Talon’s martial arts, her possible (or indeed likely) knowledge of Niman makes me wonder how she would fare in an engagement with the Starkiller clone, given their similar specialty in the Ataru and Niman forms. The only difference that I can think of is Talon has demonstrated Makashi like precision while Starkiller excels as a Jar’Kai fencer: precision versus versatility.
I think they'd be relatively close as duelists but Starkiller wins via his Force powers. It'd be a much closer fight than Talon vs Cade though.
wristofkings yeah I’d give Starkiller the edge in terms of Force powers, but I’m not sure whether Talon has displayed any skill in tutaminis to help negate the intensity of his Force Lightning. Or could she even throw a Force shield up strong enough to defend against his telekinetic attacks?
Overall I would agree, but there is one thing I'd like to comment on at 47:01
Maul is not a telepath. If he truly had gone into Kenobi's mind, he would have made a reference to the Lars or Anakin's fall. This is Maul using his understanding of Obi Wan's morals and character to piece together the reasoning. I imagine his mindset at this point is following the track of _"The Poster Boy Jedi Master is hiding in the middle of nowhere instead of doing something to help the billions of oppressed people or even leading the charge against the Sith? Who does he think he is, Luke Skywalker?"_
As of the release of TCW Season 7, they made Maul way too OP. He uses the Mind Probe on Jesse to learn who Ahsoka is, he casually deflects blaster bolts by waving his hands, he rips corridor panels off on board a Venator cruiser, and uses them as shields and blades against clones, and the most ridiculous feat, he TEARS off two massive hyperdrive reactors without much fatigue.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np Eventually, I'll talk about this Darth Maul on my VS Series and how I treat him as a fighter. But I do want to say, this final version of Maul in TCW has almost completely dropped the ball on his lightsaber skills. It's the same kind of trade off Connor was talking about in the Forcecast. As he becomes more insane, he becomes worse as a lightsaber duelist and becomes more free with his use of the force.
But if I can expand on my original point, I say Maul still isn't getting in Ben's head with the force. We can see how Maul operates when he's looking into another person's mind, it's very similar to Kylo Ren in Force Awakens in that he's actively ripping the information from their mind rather than a Vader style probe.
@@justyouraveragejoe9454 Huh, that's a good point, which Forcecast vid did he say that ? I remember Evan saying how TCW Maul gave up on strategy and clever traps in favor of just throwing himself like a bulldozer into battle. And both he and Antoine said he uses the Force bluntly. This idea about a trade off between his fighting skills and Force powers, never thought of it, but that's a fair point.
P.s. : I was checking your channel and decided to subscribe :)
@@DanieleMulas-up7np If I remember correctly it was in the Match Up Suggestion video, while they were discussing TCW Maul vs Lumiya.
And thank you for the sub, it is greatly appreciated.
@@justyouraveragejoe9454 Thanks, and no prob, I'm gonna check it right away.
An Evan vs followed by a Connor vs! You guys are doing a great job of holding me over until episode 9. Beyond hyped!
I’m extremely happy that all of you guys are still doing things I even have a few of these videos taken off-line so I can sleep to them I sleep to Malgus VS kyat and kreia VS jarec That one is my favorite
Another awesome video!! Great job explaining how the cartoon undermined Obi- Wan and other characters also.
Another great versus video unlike others you do the right amount of research can’t wait for the next one
Based on the original expanded universe timeline (so excluding TCW), besides Darth Maul and General Grievous, how many living opponents has The Negotiator actually killed in combat?
Only a few
Most of Obi Wans good fights are non lethal. The Mustafar duel and his bouts with Ventress as examples.
@@goroakechi6126 most of obiwan’s fighting don’t result in death but they do result in a dismemberment more often than not
His tcw armor was pretty cool
Andrew Glenn so was Anakin’s
That armor was worn by Obi Wan first in the early 2000s Clone Wars animated series. TCW stole it.
Trashing on TCW gives me life. Never change.
I like both TCW and Legends but I am not blind to the fact that TCW dropped the ball on certain things, specially how they treated Grievous who the original clone wars show treated much better. But I do love how TCW humanizes the clones which I know not everyone, including Connor agrees with. But I can still enjoy both continuities
Same here lol.
@Darth_ Madara Amen to that
One of the few good things coming out of tcw was the Mortis arc
YES ! The Legendary NerdRageRanter is back !
Really glad you got your channel back!
As for your comment on Maul pulling information out of Kenobi, I would like to posit the possibility that Maul isn't stupid. He talked out everything, putting the puzzle together and drawing a conclusion. That it was the correct conclusion is either a coincidence or an act of the Force. Otherwise, for what you have shown, I agree with you fully and thus fight would go to Kenobi at least 9/10, with the one time that Talon wins being statistics and probability, with a healthy dose of luck.
Same thoughts.
My dude, why have you never done a vid on Cade Skywalker? He is easily the most badass skywalker out of them.
Evan is pitching him against Mara Jade pretty soon ! But I agree, I'd love to see Jensaarai do an analysis of Cade.
Please consider doing Rahm Kota vs Tholme. Call it "The soldier vs The Spymaster".
@AzureAmaterasu I'd say Kota takes it in a direct saber duel due to his greater physicality, aggression and battlefield experience and is a more powerful Force user on the whole, but don't count out Tholme's evasion, use of the environment and stealth. I favor Kota for a slim majority, but Tholme will escape and live to fight another day.
It's amazing how much Halo music fits in with Star Wars imagery!
You should use Shaak Ti in your next video.
Shaak Ti Vs. Darth Malak
Or
Shaak Ti Vs Satele Shan
Would be neat.
I think another of the counselors did do Ti vs Shan already. The verdict was that Ti is simply a better duelist and could match most of Shan's Force abilities while having a very marginal edge in physicality.
Malak wins
Satele wins
@@Tracer_Krieg that was ti vs. Bastila I think
Love your verses series, however on this occasion I will have to disagree with your verdict. Kenobi's tactic of giving way and letting his opponent smash himself on his defenses will play against him in this case. Talon is well familiar with bait and tire/punish strategy, all do she prefers to bait and outflank instead. She will sense that Kenobi is baiting her and will start to look for alternative ways to take him down. She is far less creative then Kenobi, but she still knows better then to smash against the wall. She will cycle her skills and will quickly figure out that his barrier is weak against direct telekenetic attacks. Maul and Ventress were both able to get through his defenses and so will Talon. Kenobi won't be overwhelmed immediately, but trow by trow, and push by push he will be outdone. This match will playout in the same way as Malgus vs Kenobi fight, except that Kenobi will have even less of a chance as Talon will figure him out even faster, as soon as she realizes that she cannot outfence or outflank him she will resort to her force powers and while Kenobi will defend against her lightning she is more than capable of killing him with telekinesis. In any case love your work, good job.
alexlyutyy
His defense has been defeated in the past, however he has done some great feats I don’t think Talon could quite accomplish such as taking Salvage and Maul on at the same time and winning at some points, defeating Grievous among others.
But... Low Ground... The fight is over when you find Low Ground. Whoever gets Low Ground first wins, unless you're Vader. Even then, if the opponent has Low Ground, you can bait them into giving you Low Ground, just like Kenobi did against Vader.
So; Two of the greatest flirters and Lightsaber Duelists of all time going up against eachother. Im gonna love this.
That sounds like it could be a line for an anime. Except with rapiers instead of lightsabers.....mmmmmm. Mind if i use it
Great to see you managed to regain control of your channel.
That slam against TCW and what it did to fuck up Star Wars continuity is pretty gratifying. I admit, I did enjoy the show while it was on as competently directed and entertaining (especially in later seasons) and don't hate *everything* TCW introduced--particularly Ahsoka Tano and Cad Bane. But Ahsoka was later ruined by Rebels and as cool as Cad is, they missed an opportunity to bring Durge in--maybe they thought it would be too gory/brutal to depict fights with him in 3D, even for that series.
I love this video for not only slightly re-contextualizing Kenobi to make his level of ability consistent with his Legends depiction, but also for allowing me to see Talon's ability in a completely new light. I used to put Talon down at about Qui-Gon/Exal Kressh/Quinlan Vos level, but now I see her as closer to a peer of Ventress who was easily mid-to-high Council Master tier based on her performance level in Legends. As such, a seasoned Kenobi as of ROTS would likely win against Talon, but it is by no means a stomp and would still take some effort on his part. Excellent work as always, and I'll be looking forward to that Kun vs Bane collab.
Hearing you rant about TCW always gets me giddy!
Loved this matchup gets me ready to work on my own final match up.
What about Cade Skywalker vs Anakin Skywalker
As duelists, I say they’re equally matched. Both of them enploy offensive techniques that are amplified by dark side channeling and can contend with top tier swordsmen. As Force wielders, Cade would win because he can use Force lightning, Shatterpoint and Dark Transfer, the latter specifically what Anakin craved the most
@@darylsdesigns6679 By no means is Cade an equal swordsman, he gives Anakin a fight but gets trumped if his opponent is on his A-game like he was during Knightfall or on the Invisible Hand. Basically, Cade's similar combative demeanor to Anakin (read: kind of a headstrong idiot with Dark Rage to amp him) will push Anakin just enough that he goes Vader on his ass and things rapidly go downhill from there considering both his skill (Top 5 Djem So specialists in the universe, one of a handful of people who've ever matched Dooku as a duelist) and power advantage over Cade.
Anakin
The prodigal Jensaari returns! Good to have you back. TH-cam is once again complete.
It's always a pleasure to see one of your videos come up in my subscriptions. Well done.
I've yet to finish the Legacy comics from start to finish. I think I'll do that when I finish NJO.
Fascinating fight. Excellent work. You should analyze the Anya Kuro vs. Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus matchup you mentioned in February 2018.
Its good to see these videos back
Just to clarify, while I like tcw, I fully acknowledge it’s flaws and many of it’s annoying retcons. While you do not enjoy Tcw and will not continue to use it as a source, I’m still a huge fan of your series and respect your reasoning for not using it anymore. Look forward to many more videos in the future.
Man when your a Star Wars archivist you tend to know more than even a show runner
These days, that is not a difficult feat.
Your points on TCW are valid as I have pretty much those exact same same view on the whole Obi Wan and Grievous dynamic but I still love TCW. Anyway great video man.
We all have guilty pleasures, you're not alone
Is this going to be a recreation of James Bond seducing Pussy Galore to ultimately becoming a good girl?
Obi-Wan at least in his younger years was I think SW’s answer to James Bond. The banter and cadence of Obi-Wan during the Clone Wars reminds me a ton of 007.
Antares Draco vs Quigon Jinn. I concede that the average imperial knight is tier 5 at best, but Ganner and Draco are both tier 4/4 at least. Draco withstood Talon with a lightsaber and overpowered her with the force, and he’s only lost in combat to Celeste Moore( powered by murr) and inquisitor Darth Havok( havok beat him with the force) he had trouble with Roan fel, but that was more to do with Draco not wanting to kill him. Otherwise he’s won every duel we see him in and killed at least half a dozen within direct combat single handed . He’s more than a worthy challenger for a Jedi of jinns caliber.
I'd back Jinn, but that fight could be really interesting. I second this.
The rant about TCW is certainly more earned now. As much as Season 7 was beautiful and heart-wrenching as a finale, the number of retcons and inconsistencies was too much to be ignored. They retconned how Ahsoka fought and captured Maul, they gave her blue sabers just because, and they made Maul ridiculously OP. Yet NO ONE bats an eye because it's their precious childhood.
I'm gonna have to second that. The show is so damn popular and well-liked that its crippling flaws are ignored by most.
@@StevenZissimos IKR ? They jumped at me like I was some kind of monster for even saying Ahsoka is becoming too much Filoni's pet character, not to mention the excuses about Maul being able to rip apart two massive hyperdrive engines. They're just irrational and won't accept criticism towards Filoni.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np I actually really like the character of Ahsoka. I just hope Filoni finds a damn conclusion to her story instead of dragging it out for so long to the point where she becomes a bland character. In regards to Maul, I can kind of buy his enhanced Force abilities, as his powers would have progressed since he was rehabilitated. But yeah, I see where you're coming from. A lot of TCW fans are quite irrational.
@@StevenZissimos Oh, I love Ahsoka too, don't misunderstand me please. It's just that Filoni has been forcing his hand to put her everywhere, regardless of consistency. If she does appear in The Mandalorian Season 2 (massively overrated and bland show imo) or the long teased Rebels sequel, I hope she does do something meaningful. Overexposure can ruin a great character.
As for Maul, I don't know, he never was a dedicated telekinetic savant like Dooku. Yes, he is powerful and blunt, but him ripping two massive generators seemed like a stretch.
@@DanieleMulas-up7np I do recall Maul pulling a large ship over an edge to block Kenobi's path as he was pursuing Maul. That was the first hint of Maul's progression in power. Plus he's accomplished more feats throughout the Clone Wars that pretty much demonstrates his superiority over his Phantom Menace counterpart.
I'm getting a bowl of popcorn for this.
I should have done that. I know Im getting a full course meal ready for Bane vs Exar Kun.
@@robgeorge4581 I'm getting a full buffet ready lol! That fight is going to be so epic.
@@ironinquisitor3656 Oh yeah. Btw, who do you think would win between Exar Ken and Bane?
Im putting my money on Kun due to Bane's weakness against things outside of his knowledge base. Plus, sorcery hax.
@@robgeorge4581 While I am a huge Bane Fanboy so there could be a bit of bias, but Exar Kun could probably win this one. Remembering some of his feats I think Kun has a good chance.
@@ironinquisitor3656 Thats fair.
Finally, someone doing Kenobi justice, haven't seen that for a while.
Great to see you back connor!
For some reason I really want to see Darrow of Lykos in one of these.
Red rising ayeee
So agree with you saying they downplayed Kenobi skills as one of the greatest duelist' s in the Star Wars Universe
Man every time I look at Talon I'm reminded of this Lucas arts article on game informer about how they were gonna make a Darth maul game and there was a meeting with George because the crew was so confused about wtf he wanted that he basically did the following, He got up, he took a statue of Darth talon that was hanging around, he took a maul one and he said "I want these two to go together" so basically he wanted maul and talon and I'm guessing it was gonna be set in the post legacy era? Because one of the guys working came up with the idea of the remnants of the site being cloned like starkiller.
Unfortunately the game was being made along side battlefront 2 right around the time Lucas arts game branch was dying out because of some lack luster sales numbers and some shitty game journos not sponsoring the hell out of Farts unleashed 2.
The game concept art was fucking amazing! There were cities on these giant monsters and it was suppose to be either a stealth game or something more akin to the new Jedi fallen order game but with much more Mass effects choice in dialogue, choose you're style of play and power ups, perks, etc, basically it may has well been an early precursor to the passing fad of having every modern game be cinematic and RPG-ish.
Welcome back!
It ended how I thought it would, but this video has definitely put darth talon in a new light for me.
The best way to describe Kenobi in combat is basically ''survival through simplicity and skill''. To reflect it within the 4 Avatar elements Kenobi is a Waterbender with the mindset of a Airbender.
The medium Jedi Guardian , with patience and surivival.
Where i'd describe Talon as ''Dynamic , fierce while making it through with flexibility. A Firebender with the timing of a Waterbender.
The energenic sith assassin hand wrapped in velvet.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner Oooh ,very well said. very clever
Is this it? Are you back for real after all the bollocks you had to go through? Congrats man! It's damn good to see you back!
Hey Jensaarai, have you seen Shadiveriary's breakdown of the mustifar fight? your thoughts would be most interesting
+Jensaarai1 Could you please post a link to that essay-length comment? I'd like to read it but there are a mountain of comments on that video and I haven't been able to find it.
@@Jensaarai1 Yeah, I've tried digging through that vid's comment section for close to an hour and pulled up nada. Maybe you could repost it from your comment history or something?
Glad the channel is back!
I like that you explained why you’re not using TCW
Hope everyone is having a great day.
Francisco Rivera you too!
You too
Thank you, and same too you 😊
Out of curiosity will you ever do a Versus Series episode featuring Ahsoka Tano? I know you don't like TCW that much due to the inconsistencies, but you have used Nahdar Vebb one time so I am hoping that one is eventually made. I enjoy your content and looking forward to more!
Just going off the ROTS novel, I think you're vastly underselling Obi-wan's lightsaber skill. Dooku was confident against essentially everyone in duels, so for Obi-wan to actually throw him off shows that he wasn't confident he could beat him, and I think the rest of the fight, particularly the novel version of Obi-wan's performance before actually fighting Grevious, implies that Obi-wan would have actually won in a pure duel (probably by outlasting Dooku, as I doubt he could break Dooku's defense either). Obi-wan's weakness was that he wasn't strong enough to counter the force abilities of someone as skilled as Dooku. As seen with his fight against Anakin, he could match simple force pushes, but Anakin was much more of a duelist than a force specialist as well. More than anything else however, the fact he held off Vader for so much longer than Dooku is telling. Yes, Obi-wan's style was far more defensive than Dooku's, but both styles relied on elegance when parrying, not strength, and Makashi was even more dueling oriented defensively than Soresu. Despite this, Dooku was easily overwhelmed by Anakin, whereas Obi-wan outlasted him. Dooku was an absolute master of every form, so to say that he couldn't beat Anakin simply because he used Makashi is also flawed I would argue. He could have easily slipped into using Soresu to defend against Anakin. That means that one of the greatest duelists of all time was less skillful than Obi-wan in defense to such a degree that he was overwhelmed in seconds when Obi-wan outlasted that same assault and won. He was essentially unbeatable in pure lightsaber duels by that point. To further add to this, Dooku outright acknowledged Anakin as the best Form V duelist he'd ever seen, and possibly the best duelist period. I don't think there's any argument Talon ever had to deal with anything close to full strength Anakin in terms of dueling. Or even Grevious for that matter. Also, Obi-wan chose to lose to Vader in episode IV, he wasnt defeated because Vader kept him at arms length. I doubt Obi-wan could have outlasted Vader at that point in a full out fight, but it still seems their skill is nearly even to me.
Maul was also an excellent duelist and Obi Wan beat him as a padawan.
Not to mention Vader by that time perfected his form. Incorporated the defense of Soresu, the strength and counters of Form V, the precision and finesse of Makashi, and the footwork of Ataru. Yet even while old Kenobi was able to keep up. Shows how elite his skill was.
Very fun video! Great job as always, man.
One thing I want to point out, though. Maul in Rebels didn't pull information from Kenobi's mind. He just used good old deductive reasoning to figure out why Kenobi would be hiding out on such a desolate planet.
infinitesheldon I completely agree with you
Yes finally some new blood. This is extremely refreshing. MORE PLEASE
Can you please do darth talon vs asajj ventress
Jensarri this was a good one! Thanks you're the best.
Yours sir is a criminally underrated channel, you and the rest of the council are like the sommelier graduation test, really nice but tough to the uncommitted.
You know the SJW/Disney era StarWars would delete her immediately.
Noooooooo! The boobs!
They actually originally had her in tfa
Or ruin her.
Back to back videos from Jen and Evan? Hell yeah.
Woot! Jensaarai is back! I thought for sure that TH-cam had deleted your videos.
To me TCW is part of Disney canon and not Legends. Any tie in material or direct references to TCW for Legends does not exist for me. The reason is more logistical than personal, TCW includes too many conflicting details and inconsistencies with legends material and it oversaturates an already oversaturated era in Legends.
Why has it taken me this long to watch this amazing video? Curse you TH-cam recommendations! Anyway, fantastic versus video like always with the usual consistent of quality in the analysis and presentation of the 2 combatants, their associated lore and the hypothetical fight itself.
Whoooo!!! Welcome back Jen!!!
Very good, been looking forward to this since you released the Darth Talon snippet a short while back. Even though Obi-Wan is popular character, your breakdown of his character in each category was nice and somewhat refreshing. Also nice to see another Legacy era character getting the versus treatment.
I’m looking to rebuild my expanded universe collection, would recommend seeking out the trade paperback graphic novels, collecting the omnibuses or the legends epic collections? From what I’ve read no one way is perfect (I have some trade paperbacks but none of them are a complete series; the omnibuses are smaller and from what I understand are not always in chronological order; and the epic collections have yet to release the tales of the Jedi, crimson Empire and Dark Empire series).
On my shelf I have
KOTOR volumes 1, 2, 4 and 6
Dark Empire 1
Crimson Empire
Legacy volumes 1, 3, 10 and 11
I used to have the entire clone wars series but I have no idea where they went, I loved those stories back in the day.
Any advice on what I should do would be appreciated.
Holy crap. I can comment again!
Jensaarai1 is back!!!
Thanks for the new content Jansaarai1. It's always great to hear your take on things.