Yeah, the river bet is a hard one to know what to do. Do you bet less for value to keep the villain in or go for a big bet that is very polar? The flop x/r polarized the hero to a degree already. If I had the plan to shove the river, I would probably stick with it. But that said, I play smaller stakes so I probably would have c-bet the flop. Slow play is not rewarded even if it is balanced.
This board is different than the previous caller stated. I wonder who got it right? Missing a flush draw on the flop is a pretty big detail to get wrong.
Given the SPRs, I can't talk myself out of $600-750 on the river to give all the hands with showdown value on the turn really good odds to call, and all the missed clubs or KJo a chance to shove-bluff. I think everything else folds or checks-back. When I have a bluff, I've been really intrigued to play it like super-thin value to see if that fucks with peoples' heads compared to the standard big bluff overbet. Also curious to hear this guy talk through the other side of the hand, that video where you thought he might be using RTA was interesting because the wheel came out of absolutely freaking nowhere on that other guy's call....now when you hear this side of it from a very competent intellectual player, it makes perfect sense as a bluff-line that magically got there.
Honestly I think this is an example of both players playing fairly sub-optimally but I guess someone has to win the hand. The A2 is an optimistic bluff candidate, sure we are "attacking the opponents capped range" but that as a flawed idea if you are playing against an opponent that will not fold their capped range, which it seems is the case as his opponent did not fold KQ which is a very marginal bluff catcher in this spot. I think this falls in to the typical "well that solver does it at some frequency, so I am going to do it pure" trap that many otherwise studying players fall in to, but also the solver assumes people will fold the marginal hands that they should, so when they don't the bluffing frequency drops significantly. The opponent absolutely should have 3bet the KQ pre. His logic (as stated in the other video) that he had been 3betting a lot so he felt he shouldn't this time is just not sound logic. If he feels he has been over doing the 3betting then he can cut out some of the 3bet bluffs but in a BTN vs CO scenario KQo is closer to value than bluff and simply should be 3bet pure. There is a pretty big discrepancy though, in this video the CO states that the flop is QdTc3s for a rainbow board that presents a backdoor flush possibility on the turn, whereas in the other video the BTN states that it is the ten of spades, making it a two tone flop where the 5 of clubs is a complete brick. I think that makes a pretty big difference, as on the two tone flop the KQ call down becomes more reasonable (if still marginal) where as on this board calling down with the KQ (particularly with the K of clubs), you're blocking bluffs in the form of KJ, AcKc, maybe Kc9c and unblocking TT,33 which are more likely to check raise the flop than QQ, sure you unblock QT I guess but I would just rather have a hand like Th9h IF I was going to call down with one pair. But full circle again, all the above assumes that the CO is using logic and board interaction to make their decisions, since his logic only seems to go as deep as "well he is capped so I am just going to blast" I suppose you should call down with any pair
That is actually the weakest part of my game. Calling with hands that are marginal at best, that would win if i called, but I talk myself into folding, leaving a lot of money on the table
Pretty common but interesting spot here. A lot of strategical analysis can be taken here. These kinds of spots happen all the time but don’t make it often to the call ins because they’re not crazy- I face a triple barrel with an over pair or how do I play the flopped but flush draw. Would be cool to hear more calls like this one.
You should do a video on nothing but explaining terms. Cold call Flatted Lead out 90% of the time the people using them speak for their donk selves by the way they're (mis)-used in context and their irrelevances.
Hard to tell here as villain you have to assume he is 100% polar either bluff or you are beat, I think it tough because there is just a lot that beats you, biggest being AQ for that reason as villain I probably fold. As hero you just have to figure out how often villain folds Q if its too much the shove isn't profitable. Personally I'm probably just going $400-500 because a Q pays off almost 100% of the time and maybe 10-20% goes over the top especially with AQ combo.
@@bomblade15 the guy next to him had a seat change like 10 minutes later and ended up sitting next to me. I asked him if he heard a call or something that I didn't hear, he said the guy didn't say anything either he just pitched his cards in
I’m a small stakes player so I typically don’t listen to many $5/$10 reviews, but was really valuable and cool to hear the players thinking during this hand from both sides.
@@KevinHasSpoken I agree 100% but I guess it depends on what your poker goals are idk. They say the higher the stakes the more it becomes like 1/3 anyways lol
Of course it does, but how much more often? If you get called 50% at 1400 and 75% at 900. The bigger bet is more profitable. In general, you need the smaller bet to get called 50% more often than all-in to make it right. I don't think the villain's calling range varies that much here between the two bets.
@OneEyedJack01 personally I think most players fold QJ or worse to all in. QK probably folds more than 50% of the time but this is player dependant. Caller said this villain likes to call him down lighter so against this type I'd be going full pot or all in. But against tighter players or people who fold off more then I think 900 -1000 is a much better choice. All in against thinking players maybe also as your value range with this line is pretty slim. AA KK QQ 10 10 or possibly 33 if you open this pre. KQ also blocks this heavily.
This is not a thing. You can do this against solvers or scared people. If you didn't hit the nuts, you'd still have shoved and lost all your chips. Wtf are you doing. You really think the guy with KQ realises you're "uncapped"? Get real.
Would be nice if when you explain something and make it more understandable (layman’s?) cause you go on these rants and I’m like wtf did he just say and I watch a lot of training videos and have played for years so it’s not that I don’t know the game and just hope you aren’t trying to see how smart you can sound cause that’s gonna cost ya. Js
_I'll comment as video goes_ PF: ok with opening. 6:00 flop...lmao! Absolutely nothing! The only way to win this pot is to bluff. But, bluff what?? TPTK?, a set? 2 pairs? I'd just get out of this hand asap. And also spend some time out of casino...just to went this hand out! . Turn is even worse! Flop x/r call shows that a bluff is fantasizing. Just curious how H would get out of this hand. Now, H bets Turn, BTN calls??! BTN goes nowhere. Man...am scared. Only way out is a 4 on river. That's a 4 outs (8%). . River: 4!!! WOWWWWWWW!!! No further comments!
Would you personally be using a different river bet size when you make your hand vs. when bluffing?
Yeah, the river bet is a hard one to know what to do. Do you bet less for value to keep the villain in or go for a big bet that is very polar? The flop x/r polarized the hero to a degree already. If I had the plan to shove the river, I would probably stick with it. But that said, I play smaller stakes so I probably would have c-bet the flop. Slow play is not rewarded even if it is balanced.
No, unless i made my hand vs a rec and can go a lot higher then the 150% I usually use for over bets.
Any serious poker player should know - there is no such thing as King-Jack off. Only Jack-King off. Let’s stop this abomination.
Of course I tend to get sticky with that hand.
@@timmyp34😂
you're just playing with yourself
Im a plo player so am more familiar with queen jack off kings
Hahahahahahahahaha it's funny cos it means w*nking hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
This board is different than the previous caller stated. I wonder who got it right? Missing a flush draw on the flop is a pretty big detail to get wrong.
I noticed that. I think the original caller got it correct with QdTs3s5c4c. When he heard "wheel" he was expecting As2s.
Where’s link guy with the link to the other perspective video?
th-cam.com/video/y5MJqmiHMbA/w-d-xo.html
Given the SPRs, I can't talk myself out of $600-750 on the river to give all the hands with showdown value on the turn really good odds to call, and all the missed clubs or KJo a chance to shove-bluff. I think everything else folds or checks-back. When I have a bluff, I've been really intrigued to play it like super-thin value to see if that fucks with peoples' heads compared to the standard big bluff overbet.
Also curious to hear this guy talk through the other side of the hand, that video where you thought he might be using RTA was interesting because the wheel came out of absolutely freaking nowhere on that other guy's call....now when you hear this side of it from a very competent intellectual player, it makes perfect sense as a bluff-line that magically got there.
Honestly I think this is an example of both players playing fairly sub-optimally but I guess someone has to win the hand. The A2 is an optimistic bluff candidate, sure we are "attacking the opponents capped range" but that as a flawed idea if you are playing against an opponent that will not fold their capped range, which it seems is the case as his opponent did not fold KQ which is a very marginal bluff catcher in this spot. I think this falls in to the typical "well that solver does it at some frequency, so I am going to do it pure" trap that many otherwise studying players fall in to, but also the solver assumes people will fold the marginal hands that they should, so when they don't the bluffing frequency drops significantly.
The opponent absolutely should have 3bet the KQ pre. His logic (as stated in the other video) that he had been 3betting a lot so he felt he shouldn't this time is just not sound logic. If he feels he has been over doing the 3betting then he can cut out some of the 3bet bluffs but in a BTN vs CO scenario KQo is closer to value than bluff and simply should be 3bet pure.
There is a pretty big discrepancy though, in this video the CO states that the flop is QdTc3s for a rainbow board that presents a backdoor flush possibility on the turn, whereas in the other video the BTN states that it is the ten of spades, making it a two tone flop where the 5 of clubs is a complete brick. I think that makes a pretty big difference, as on the two tone flop the KQ call down becomes more reasonable (if still marginal) where as on this board calling down with the KQ (particularly with the K of clubs), you're blocking bluffs in the form of KJ, AcKc, maybe Kc9c and unblocking TT,33 which are more likely to check raise the flop than QQ, sure you unblock QT I guess but I would just rather have a hand like Th9h IF I was going to call down with one pair.
But full circle again, all the above assumes that the CO is using logic and board interaction to make their decisions, since his logic only seems to go as deep as "well he is capped so I am just going to blast" I suppose you should call down with any pair
Interesting that one caller said rainbow and the other said 2 spades. Changes the number of missed draws significantly.
But do you understand it’s ‘all intents and purposes’ and not all ‘intensive purposes’? Lol
King of Queens reference lmao
It bothered me too
Picking up on the important stuff guys 👍
@@looshle It’s the irony of Bart always being a little snarky and condescending while at the same time saying things like that.
From the gecko
That is actually the weakest part of my game. Calling with hands that are marginal at best, that would win if i called, but I talk myself into folding, leaving a lot of money on the table
So If the caller wouldnt have backed into IT. He would have jammed the River and the other Guy would have called. I wonder WHO is the fish here
Pretty common but interesting spot here. A lot of strategical analysis can be taken here. These kinds of spots happen all the time but don’t make it often to the call ins because they’re not crazy- I face a triple barrel with an over pair or how do I play the flopped but flush draw. Would be cool to hear more calls like this one.
I always like your hand reviews and I've often wondered if you get calls from both players. Maybe I'll find the other one. Thanks for all you do.
13:52 "for all intensive purposes"
That’s what he should of said. Yup. 😮
Floral incandescent porpoises
@@johndavidallison7601lol
@@Smitoonsshould've*
If only I would of known…
Would the caller have played A4 and A5 the same way?
Yes. Which shows why the button was eager to call down.
i remember this hand from the other POV and i remember thinking ugh at the reveal
Okay good. I wasn't sure if it was just me but I thought I remembered villian calling in with his perspective from same hand.
@@rain_delay i doubt i would have remembered exactly but bart says it in the video near the end
Ah okay. I didn't watch the video all the way through.
You should do a video on nothing but explaining terms.
Cold call
Flatted
Lead out
90% of the time the people using them speak for their donk selves by the way they're (mis)-used in context and their irrelevances.
Hard to tell here as villain you have to assume he is 100% polar either bluff or you are beat, I think it tough because there is just a lot that beats you, biggest being AQ for that reason as villain I probably fold. As hero you just have to figure out how often villain folds Q if its too much the shove isn't profitable. Personally I'm probably just going $400-500 because a Q pays off almost 100% of the time and maybe 10-20% goes over the top especially with AQ combo.
I play a similar hand like this with A4. I was bluffing all the way until the river. However, I'm not using a phone so they can't accuse me 🙂
What about checking the river..pretending to give up ?
To risky he checks behind ?
There is a 0% chance villain will ever bet if checked to here unless he has KJcc or J9cc exactly.
@@nathanielveimau303MAYBE Q10 of spades. But there is literally no value he bets here if we check as played.
@@speakinfaxonly2133 would probably bet if checked to.
I'm confused at how he was vindicated?
I had an issue w mgm detroit before, dude mucked his cards, never said call ( i was bluffing) and just throws his cards in and they said its a call
I WOULD BE PISSED!
Throws his cards in? Like flips them up?
@@bomblade15 the guy next to him had a seat change like 10 minutes later and ended up sitting next to me. I asked him if he heard a call or something that I didn't hear, he said the guy didn't say anything either he just pitched his cards in
@@Iamhimberly You said pitched his cards in...that sounds like he threw them into the muck..
Are you saying he showed his hand but never said call?
@@bomblade15 he did frisbee them when he turned them over. Then when they started dragging the pot his way I was like what the fuc
th-cam.com/video/y5MJqmiHMbA/w-d-xo.html other side
I’m a small stakes player so I typically don’t listen to many $5/$10 reviews, but was really valuable and cool to hear the players thinking during this hand from both sides.
Well it boils down to hero t doing this line with literally any two just because the button called.
Why would you not listen to higher stake reviews? Isn't that the point?
@@YoshiBugatti I do listen to alot of 2/5 & some 5/10, but a lot of concepts being applied at 5/10 don’t really apply to 1/3, wouldn’t you agree?
i don't even play poker but i listen to all of these
@@KevinHasSpoken I agree 100% but I guess it depends on what your poker goals are idk. They say the higher the stakes the more it becomes like 1/3 anyways lol
Was it Ts or Tc ???
Ts. The original caller said he was expecting to see As2s once he heard "wheel" upon calling river.
Ts-Ten of spades Tc-Ten of clubs.
I feel 900-1000 gets called more often and villains range is Q heavy here. QK QJ even Q10 that doesn't 3bet flop and is trapping.
Of course it does, but how much more often? If you get called 50% at 1400 and 75% at 900. The bigger bet is more profitable. In general, you need the smaller bet to get called 50% more often than all-in to make it right. I don't think the villain's calling range varies that much here between the two bets.
@OneEyedJack01 personally I think most players fold QJ or worse to all in. QK probably folds more than 50% of the time but this is player dependant. Caller said this villain likes to call him down lighter so against this type I'd be going full pot or all in. But against tighter players or people who fold off more then I think 900 -1000 is a much better choice.
All in against thinking players maybe also as your value range with this line is pretty slim. AA KK QQ 10 10 or possibly 33 if you open this pre. KQ also blocks this heavily.
This is not a thing. You can do this against solvers or scared people. If you didn't hit the nuts, you'd still have shoved and lost all your chips. Wtf are you doing. You really think the guy with KQ realises you're "uncapped"? Get real.
u ok lol
@@travistowell7149sounds like this dude loves to tell people who are dragging his chips to their stack how poorly they just played the hand.
Would be nice if when you explain something and make it more understandable (layman’s?) cause you go on these rants and I’m like wtf did he just say and I watch a lot of training videos and have played for years so it’s not that I don’t know the game and just hope you aren’t trying to see how smart you can sound cause that’s gonna cost ya. Js
Just say "You have the winning hand here", not the nuts. Words have meanings.
"Effective nuts" is the term often used in such a spot.
_I'll comment as video goes_
PF: ok with opening.
6:00 flop...lmao! Absolutely nothing! The only way to win this pot is to bluff. But, bluff what?? TPTK?, a set? 2 pairs? I'd just get out of this hand asap. And also spend some time out of casino...just to went this hand out!
.
Turn is even worse! Flop x/r call shows that a bluff is fantasizing. Just curious how H would get out of this hand. Now, H bets Turn, BTN calls??! BTN goes nowhere. Man...am scared. Only way out is a 4 on river. That's a 4 outs (8%).
.
River: 4!!! WOWWWWWWW!!! No further comments!
river calling shove proves that bluff was impossible!!