Frets: How Low is TOO low?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ต.ค. 2021
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very informative information. I suppose giving someone a measurement is irrelevant. Basically if it's to low to crown and can't get the gripers to pull out the fret you need a re😢fret.
I was afraid to go down to 0,7-0,8 mm on my build, but seeing those flat frets makes me feel better 😆
What a brilliantly explained - no nonsense video. Thanks so much for this 👏
Thanks!
just did my first fret leveling on a 1960s Teisco. it’s too low, they can’t be crowned. Time to shop for frets.
Oh man, those usually have quite a ski jump at the body end of the fretboard. Pulling those frets and retruing the board would probably not be the worst thing for one of those.
Top information
@ 19:50 there is a great vocal noise! Thank you
Great video
Thanks so much for this. I have a late 80s MIJ Squire that was my first guitar and I'd like to keep the neck and make it more playable. The first three frets are looking grooved and I just can't seem to get a straight answer on repair. Your video really helped me understand how to have a good conversation as I search for a good tech. Unfortunately you are 2500 miles away or I'd be bringing it to you. Cheers
I always try to explain why I think what I think on a given repair. This is one of those things where you will encounter a lot of differing opinions from folks.
What are your thoughts on *partial* refrets? A lot of guitars get played mostly low on the board so only the first five or so get any appreciable wear. Can you replace the first few and then level and crown the upper frets to match?
How do the strings react to low frets?
I know some guys that prefer low frets, is low frets bette
Finalmente ho trovato la soluzione al mio problema.
Sono amante dell'action estremamente basso.
Sono estremamente convinto che con frets ultra-basse, si possa ottenere un'action ultra-basso. Molti liutai tradizionali mi sconsigliano di farlo perché altrimenti rovinerei lo strumento. Ma questo video dimostra che ho la ragione dalla mia parte.
Tempo fa ebbi l'occasione di suonare una Ibanez modello fine anni '80, forse la capostipite da cui poi è nata la linea Jem. La peculiarità di questa chitarra era che aveva l'action talmente basso che bastava una minima pressione della corda per farla suonare. Anche durante lo strumming, le corde, magicamente,non friggevano sul manico o sui frets. Secondo me è la soluzione perfetta per uno shredder. Sono convinto che anche Steve Vai usa questo accorgimento, oltre la sua indiscutibile bravura.
In English:
I finally found the solution to my problem.
I am a lover of extremely low action.
I am extremely convinced that with ultra-low frets, ultra-low action can be achieved.
Many traditional luthiers advise me not to do this because otherwise I would ruin the instrument.
But this video proves that I have reason on my side.
Some time ago I had the opportunity to play an Ibanez model from the late 80s, perhaps the progenitor from which the Jem line was born. The peculiarity of this guitar was that it had the action so low that a minimum pressure of the string was enough to make it play.
Even when strumming, the strings magically didn't fry on the neck or frets.
In my opinion it is the perfect solution for a shredder.
I am convinced that Steve Vai also uses this trick, in addition to his indisputable skill
Can you use a push push pot volume to turn on a passive piezo and work only as a volume pot for humbuckers
Thank you for the comprehensive explanation. By the way, is it hypothetically possible to fix a slight "hump" on the neck in the area of the last frets and create a fall-away by particularly removing only the last frets where the "hump" is, and planing that part of the neck, or the entire set of frets should be removed and the entire fretboard needs planing? The fretboard before the problem area in the end looks pretty straight.
I have a bass with the neck issue you described and I am envisioning working on it myself since there are no luthiers where I live now.
If its a bolt on it might be that someone used the wrong kind of shim and caused a ski jump. Otherwise, it might be just age. Without seeing it its hard to say. If it has a little slip shim that caused a ski jump, you can try removing the shim to see if that sets it right eventually, or see what you can do adjusting the neck. otherwise, yeah, you might be looking at fretwork.
@@DrewsGuitarShop thank you, it doesn't have any shims. It did have lacquer residue and some sawdust in the neck pocket, though, it may have acted as a shim. I planed it now and it looks ok to the eye, but when the bass is assembled the ski jump is still present, so I guess I'll try leveling down the last frets and see what happens.
Thank you for this excellent video. Where did you purchase your dial veneer caliper? The logo looks like the maker is a company called Aerospace with a sea gull logo. As a former (retired) Master Machinist-Class A for an aerospace company (Lockheed) we used Starrett tools because they were manufactured to Mil-Spec. Thank you, again. Greetings from Greenville, NC.
It's whatever they issues us at Roberto Venn. You can get them pretty readily though on amazon, ebay and whatnot.
Thanks I went to amazon and bought one.@@DrewsGuitarShop
5/11/2024. 9:00 am c.
Will it help string squeaking?
Thanks, Rod
Hi, I’m new about adjusting my guitar. I have action ruller and feeler gauge. I adjusted my guitar with 0.10 feeler gauge and fitting well at 8. Fret and I adjusted my action 6. String to 2.00 and 1. String to 1.5 but I’m hearing buzz. Buzz starting 7. Fret to 13. Fret. Is that mean I’m playing really hard and causing buzz and must I play softer or I have to raise the strings or is that mean I’m adjusting truss rod wrong?
I’m capoing the 1. Fret and pusing with my finger at (where meet my neck with body, 17. Fret) and checking with 0.10(0.25mm) feeler gauge and gauge barely touching to string. Can still neck relief cause buzz while feeler gauge fitting well? Or am I playing really hard and causing fret buzz and should I play softer or rise my actions?
I’m sorry if my english is hard to understand but I hope you can understand my question and answer. Have a good day.
th-cam.com/video/Pfk1waXQPDg/w-d-xo.html
You are typically going to have some string buzz on an electric guitar.or bass, it's considered normal if it doesn't affect the output from the amp. You are close to the guitar while playing and therefore you will hear the buzz but it doesn't mean that it will be audible through the amp. It's a general rule, however, if the buzz is very pronounced and loud or when it's affecting the vibration of the strings then there may be a problem with a set up, the neck or your technique. From your neck relief measurement info it looks ok or you may want to try adding some more neck relief if the buzz is strong enough to interfere with your playing. Also check if your frets are even, if you don't have a special rocker tool you may use a paper knife blades, just break them into the pieces of the correct length as you go down the fretboard. But in all likelihood your guitar is ok, some buzz is acceptable.
But if it's bothering you I'd adjust the neck to fit the specs and then raise the action (taking the neck radius into account) to the point where the buzz is acceptable, and then adjust the intonation.
i feel this video is a bit too long as i just wanted to know what was in the title however i enjoyed the full video so i guess its actually a plus lol.
I thought my practice guitar had low frets, but compared to your example, they're mountains. Think I need to take more off the sides. Thanks.
When I first started playing I knew nothing about guitars of course like everyone when they first start and I thought small frets were the best, but after playing a few years I decided I love big frets. I just ordered a neck from warmoth and I purchased it with 6100 Jumbo stainless frets. I have to see if it needs leveled and polished, but I am tired of refretting guitars.. I really might try to use the EVO frets in the future just because stainless is soooo much work, but great using them.
Thanks.. Good video!
My experience with warmoth is that the fretwork out of that place isn't the best. Plan on getting it level crowned and polished I think. Especially with SS frets
@@DrewsGuitarShop Hi. Maybe I got lucky, but mine is almost perfectly level. I used to be a machinists and have tools and I was shocked at how level they were! Thanks for the infor though. I appreciate it.. Very much..
So does it also mean, that the lower frets are - the easier to play for beginner? (low under minimal condition for that what you exaplained in the video) :D
Fyi relif can be.010 but 0.07 is better if 12 inch radius I've gotten it to 0.04
The frets will never lose width even down to almost to the fretboard.
They do during the crowning process, assuming you are crowning and polishing correctly. Its not much, but it is a loss of material in what is necessarily an abrasive process.
There is nothing like adding speed bumps to sharpen all your notes.
How do you level multi radius necks? Plek machine? LOL!
By hand.
@@DrewsGuitarShop I don't like the idea of multi radius necks. I don't see how you could ever do a good job of leveling the frets, for one. I know the reasoning behind it, that notes on a small radius neck on the upper frets can choke out because of the curve but I've never had a problem with that on even 9.25" radius necks. Seems like a solution looking for a problem, IMO.
Are you the dude chattin on T Lawyer show?
I don't know what that is.
Great explanation pity about the imperial measurements
'merca, n so on.
11:12 I think this is where people may take things too far on guitar building, yes precision is important. But you are dealing with an instrument with a temperament of its own. The guitar does not abide by the equal temperament and so this kind of precision is not really that important regarding to tuning, as the temperament of a guitar is not really comsidered a comstant
Maybe, but I can hear the difference. Its most pronounced on chords usually. On jumbo fretwire the difference in crown point can be quite a lot, less obviously on thinner stuff. That said, there is always the issue of the tone not being as clean.
Why would we ignore a variable we can control? If there's inherent flaws with tuning, shouldn't we control as many of those as possible to reduce the flaw?
@@benstanfill363 because it would be easier on a human to make. The “control” you talk about is faulty. So getting something that is faulty very precise to like 100’s of a mm seems unessecary
@@benstanfill363 sorry bout spelling lol
Just show how to take off the old frets.
I have other videos on fretwork. This one doesn't say anything about fret removal in the title. I believe I mention the fretwork page on my website in this video if you would like to take a look at that. www.drewsguitarshop.com/fretwire-and-fretjobs
Anything less than 1mm I think is too low. Difficult to bend on electric guitars, too much pressure needed, and therefore fatigue, on acoustic guitars. 1mm is the cutoff point for me.
1mm is around where a lot of vintage narrow Fretwire starts. The point of my video is that its often relative to what you have for the sake of saying somethings frets are worn to the point of needing replacement. Replacing them as a matter of preference is of course another matter.
I am familiar with an opinion that lower frets make bending and playing in general more difficult but I can't undestand why. Unless of course the frets are so low that the string is touching the fretboard. But if it's not and the string is not touching the board when pressed, what's the difference then? If the frets are not critically low we can adjust the nut and the bridge accordingly and it's the same set up as if the guitar had taller frets, right? The same distance the strng is traveling from the unpressed to the pressed state. And if it's not touching the board it means you are fine, because you can't press it too hard anyway, since it'll sound out of tune. So it turns out you don't need this extra fret height for anything? Or am I missing something?
@@inquisitivenessandcontempl9918 If the frets are too low the fingers, as they squash over either side of the string, will make contact with the fretboard before sufficient pressure is applied to the string. This means more pressure is needed to hold the string firmly enough against the fret which can lead to fatigue and stress injury (I was that soldier!). Low frets can make bending more difficult as the other strings are more prone to sliding behind the fingertips rather than being pushed out of the way on top of the fingers. Also, friction from the fingers being in too much contact with the fretboard makes bending and vibrato more difficult.
@@JJDoolethis. This is what I'm trying to describe to people. Wish I could show mine. It isn't heavily played and it's a standard MIM poly coated maple 9.5 radius medium jumbo fret. It appears looking closely that the string has a couple of MM from touching the fretboard and I cannot get the string to touch the actual fret board but even as skinny as my fingers are if I slightly move my fingers while playing bends etc I feel the skin touching rubbing the poly and it's sticky like at times making me wonder if the guy I bought it from like new had the frets leveled and they took off a bit more than I would like or if that's how they are made in factory ?? My son is a player for 20 years. He claims it's normal. But idk. I guess I messed around and fell in to the love of stainless jumbo frets on my fusion T and hell, my classic Vibe 60s (2015) has taller frets too. Maybe it's the poly carrying the extra slight distance to my skin rubbing idk. Lol
Even the highest frets are no more than 1.5mm and it’s virtually impossible that your fingers won’t touch the board to some degree. The main thing is to press no harder than you have to, which for many people is quite a bit lighter than they are pressing. The ultimate solution, of course, is a scalloped fretboard.
.045
That is around or even kinda high for the starting point of most medium fret wires. Unless you are saying that all guitars with medium or narrow gauge fretwire are too low, this is inaccurate. Check out this link and look at the specs in the item description: www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/materials/fretwire/stewmac-medium-fretwire/
@@DrewsGuitarShop Just saying that's getting too low for me.
I like .055"/.057"
I like big frets and I cannot lie!
I feel the most comfortable when I don't feel the fretboard at all.
Mines are .035 I leveld to much but I ain't put it back together yet so will see how she plays I'm worried now?
@@paulyoung4781 Watch the video.