The use of tall frets on classical guitars. Why it can be revolutionary for your playability.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- There are two reasons in particular. One is that the playing effort is less. But another, perhaps more important, is that with these frets, the space between frets where the string sounds good producing a nice sound is bigger, giving you much more security and easier playability. In this video I explain in detail about all this and you can also listen the guitar maker Paula Lazzarini talk about them and why she has used them in her latest elevated fingerboard guitar that she has made especially for MaderaGuitarras.com.
This article in Madera Blog:
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intro music composed by Alberto Cuéllar for MaderaGuitarras - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Good explanation of this subject! I first discovered the benefits of using tall frets playing electric guitar back in the 1980's. Most of the electric guitarists were using tall, wide wire, to get the feel of a scalloped fretboard, without actually scalloping away the wood. Years later, when I started making classical guitars, it seemed natural to use the tallest fret wire I could find, which was then made by Dunlop. The wire I preferred was .055" high/ .090" wide. The classical guitar players loved it, but the flamenco players were not that interested. They preferred being able to feel the wood. But I use tall wire on all my classical guitars. Jescar is a good brand, and they have the most sizes I am aware of.
Thanks Dominelli. Interesting to find guitar makers also use them and they found them a very good option. This Paula guitar she used Jumbo Medium. I hope I have the chance to try many of them with different measures and I will have a more clear idea of what the best in my opinion are. Anyway, those of Paula are great.
i have the .057 tall and .110 wide frets on my classical. i use jescar evo gold. i don't like the 6105 you describe.
I've used the .057 by .110 on my own guitars too, and I really like that, but it's too extreme for most classical players. Also, those frets are so wide that when you get into the upper register the space between the frets gets pretty narrow. Could be a problem for some players. Gotta have a few different types of fretwork in this business... @@louiscyfer6944
Absolutely agree with you. On both my concert guitars I use 1.4 mm frets and very heppy with a result. Thank you for sharing this! With sweet memories of visiting you in Ronda 😊 Denys
To my knowledge, Jose Oribe of Vista, California was the first classical/flamenco maker to use high frets. Back in 1978 he had a large roll of fret wire especially made (I think in Europe). I believe the measurements were .051 high and .090 wide. He has been using that wire for many years. I use the Jescar .055/.090 very close the the Dunlop 6105. I highly recommend, if you have an instrument you really like (with low fret wire), get it re-fretted. Most of the guitars out of Japan back before 2000 had .036 wire. BTW...Oribe always had nothing but high praise for Uris' repair work.
I just refretted my Telecaster, having worn the old frets down too far to stand another level and crown, and I used medium jumbo wire. It's so much better now the frets are higher.
I've wondered about this myself. It seems logical. I would think this would be especially good for guitars for beginners, since they (we) have a hard time fretting without buzz. On an unrelated note, it seems to me that the guitar of Paola's has a very high action.
gracias!
The only reason I could think for not wanting to use them is perhaps not wanting to accidentally bend a note out of tune. However this is probably just a matter of getting used to the exact amount of pressure needed with your touch
I didn't find that problem in my experience with it.
That would be an exciting option for my playing style: a jazz-like approach on a flat-top guitar. Playing more complex chords higher up the neck is very challenging, using my guitars with hair-thin frets. Thanks for pointing this all out. BTW, ask a sitar player how he values high frets ;>)
Great idea; plus, I can keep nails on my fretting hand just normal. My nail anatomy is such that it will take a year to make my nails 1mm smaller than as it is now. I am beginner.
Hello, I have an Altamira N200ce+ guitar. The frets on this guitar are thick. As seen in the video... I am satisfied and it feels solid while playing. If I were to buy a guitar again, I might choose a guitar with thick frets like this. But this guitar has "WOLF NOTE" on G and C notes. I didn't know how to handle this. I wanted to say.
Very interesting concept. Isn't there the danger of distorting a bit the note by pushing too hard and raising the tone pich off tune?
You need to get use to it a bit in order to not push too hard. But in my case I didn't need it. I just played in the normal way with the left hand and no problem with it.
For me high frets are a no brainer. The wood of the fretboard isn’t meant to be anything other than something to hold the frets which is what makes the sound
I use jumbo frets on all my electric guitars and the only reason I don’t on my acoustics is they aren’t shipped with them as an option. They will all get high frets when it comes time for a refret
2:55 - hearing is believing!
I'm a classical builder in Australia and I wanted to thank you for posting this. I've built a guitar recently on which I opted for higher frets in order to see how much difference it made to playability. I tend to agree with everything you've mentioned here, especially about playability.
I'm interested to know, by high, how high is being suggested by these makers? Would it be what is considered "jumbo" fret wire, or even "super jumbo".
Hello David. You are welcome! very happy you found it interesting. Paula told me they are Jumbo Medium. The branch can be Hoscos, Dumlop, Stewmac...
@@maderaguitarras Thanks! Very interesting, I'm in the process of building a Torres 1888 from Australian tonewoods. I might consider jumbo medium frets as part of this.
I always learn something from your postings. one commentor mentioned Dunlop frets .055 tall and .090 wide. how does that compare to the fret size you are referring to as tall? Classical guitarists here in Tennessee have been trending toward very tall frets for many years, myself included.
The ones used by Lazzarini on the guitar in the video she told me are jumbo medium.
High frets and radius in the fingerboard, like 17 inch radius, is ideal. I've never understood why lute makers where easily able to make radiused necks but none of the classical guitar makes seem to be capable of doing this.
Yes, they have to make the matching radius in the nut and saddle but that's a simple thing. Just make a form (platera) for it and that's it. It can't be any harder to make a radiused neck today than it was back in the 1500's.
I agree. Classical guitar maker Daniele Chiesa here in the last Madera video talks about all things he makes in the neck and fretboard and between them is the radius.
I am a physicist and process engineer. I also play classical guitar. Not well, but play. Because of who I am I cannot stop trying to solve problems. A problem that I have while playing is that when I must barre a fret the notch at the joint of my finger does not fret the string cleanly. Upon further analysis I found that it was because part of my finger was already pushing against the finger board. Another problem was that I had to be so accurate about fretting the string so close behind the fret. I proposed that both problems could be solved with higher frets. So I am going to refret one of my guitars. That is how I came across your video. I am looking for information about tall frets on classical guitars. I have a couple of questions. Do you have a fret height and width that you have found most successful. I am just surprised that someone in the classical guitar genre has my same considerations.
Since no one answered you: there are some answers regarding the fret height in the comments. The guitar maker on this video, Paula, uses medium jumbo which is 1.2 mm (0,47"). Some other guitar makers goes higher than the extra jumbo (1.4 mm / 0,55"). I'm not sure if those sizes are standardized or if they differ from brand to brand (Dunlop, Stew Mac etc). These are the sizes that I got from generic frets (no brand) that are sold in my country (Brazil).
This is fascinating! Curious to see that it has a clear sound all over the fret!!
I'm wondering because i use low action on all my electric guitars and play progressive metal.. do you put the action particularly high ?? It doesn't look too high to me..
I am very comfortable with low action for the music I play and play a lot of solos from the 12th to 24th fret .
Anyway , fascinating video and thank you for making this,
If you're able to answer my question I would really appreciate it if that's okay! Do I need to refret my guitars to use higher action? In that case i would probably just keep my guitars the way they are
You mean the need to refret to use a higher action or to use higher frets? The action of the classical guitar I use in the video was on 12th fret: 1st string 3mm and 6th string 4mm. You have another video in this channel about how to measure the action on a guitar in case you need it.
Have you seen the Zeroglide? is an artifact that works as a Zero fret without using one, I have used a jumbo fret for my flamenco guitar seems to work very well, less buzzing than usual, personally I dont like buzzing but comes with the flamenco guitar haha
I also don't like buzzing on flamenco guitars :) never heard about the zeroglide. I'll have a look. Thanks.
Tradition is a difficult boulder to move sometimes! Many of these points make perfect sense. I'm curious though, from an instructional standpoint that a student wouldn't develop the necessary accuracy to become accomplished on several string instrument types. Also a move to fretless fingerboard seems like it would be a more difficult move?
Great video, though, and very informative!
Thanks Kenin! fretless fingerboard for what exactly? I don't know if you see the point for it but not me. Regards from Granada.
I like the idea of tall frets for my Classical Guitar. Can you provide the name of the Brand, Model, Dimensions of the frets, and where they can be purchased? Thanks
Hello. Paula told me they are Jumbo Medium. The branch can be Hoscos, Dumlop, Stewardmac... In Spain you can buy them in Maderas Barber. In USA I think in StewMac you get them.
How interesting! How does this affect playing ascending ligado, tapping, vibrato, etc.?
The glissandos is one of the things guitarists found more difficult to make on tall frets as I say in the video but it also depends on how tall the frets are. In the guitar I use in the video made by Paula Lazzarini who used medium jumbo frets I didn't found special difficulty or big difference on ligados and vibratos, Just you need to get used to the different effort you need to apply to the strings in order to play it cause you need to push the string just till touching the fret. And for me it wasn't a lot of time to get used to it. I am talking about 1-2 days in my case. For other guitarists friends just few hours. But I repeat it depends on the frets you use and also I would say to the way you play and use the left hand.
Very interesting. I have 2 guitars to fret, if you care to tell me, what dimensions are the frets? Many thanks
Hi Vin, The ones Paula used on her guitar are Medium Jumbo she told me. You have Hoscos, Dunlop, Stewmac... Regards from Granada.
How does it affect the action? I imagine distance from top of fret to string remains the same. Does that mean though that the height of the string from the soundboard increases with a taller saddle?
If you were to do a refret on an established guitar with new higher frets the action would be reduced as the higher frets would be closer to the bottom of the strings. Assuming no changes to nut/saddle are needed.
That is a very good question. The action is the same, but talking with Paula she told me that the tall frets allow a higher action easier than traditional/shorter frets.
About the height of the strings in relation to the soundboard if we are talking about a traditional guitar with these tall frets then it is the same or may increase just a bit. That also depends on the guitar maker. Because yes, you can change the saddle height to get the right action but the guitar maker also can play here with the angle he sets for the neck in relation to the soundboard. That is also another parameter that a guitar maker can consider with the use of tall frets and must consider if he is making a tall frets with elevated fingerboard. Elevated fingerboard is quite complex to make it right.
Another parameter a guitar maker can take into account here is also the height of the bridge. But that is also a delicate issue. Cause it can affect the sound projection of the guitar and other things.
And another one is the thickness of the ebony fretboard you can use. For example in the Bernardo and Pepe Romero Jr guitars the fretboard is very very thick and that also allows the similar effect you get with the elevated fingerboard that is the much easier access to the higher frets 12th,13,14,15.... Also, the guitar made by Paula with the elevated fingerboard you can see in pictures on our web is a very thick ebony fretboard.
Sorry for the long answer.
The last thing to say is that different guitar makers take different ways of construction to get to the same result.
@@maderaguitarras Thank-you both. I can also now appreciate there are different ways of setting-up the action. Would be interesting to play one to see if it makes me sound like a cleaner player!
Le pregunto maestro, ¿que medida de trastes utilizan con estos trastes grandes? Tuve una guitarra con 6100. En lo personal me gustan. En mi guitarra al pasar los años cuando se fueron gastando tuve algo de problemas de entonación sin embargo creo que la instalación se pudo haber hecho mejor. Intente cuando fui a remplazarlos para instalarle de vuelta trastes grandes más el luthier ni tenía la medida. El traste que tengo ahora es muy bajo y no me gusta. Si me permite preguntar, ¿que medida recomiendan vosotros?
Each guitar maker can be different. For the guitar in the video Paula told me he used Jumbo Medium.
@@maderaguitarras thanks, I appreciate it the information. I just came across your channel and so far have enjoyed your video releases.
Thanks a lot Isaac. More coming...
1997? why all luthiers didn't use it then? it sounds amazing
I'm curious with such high frets will it cause more buzzing?
The buzzing appears not because of the frets but because of the action your guitar has. The action measurement is the same with tall or traditional frets or whatever fret's height. The height of the frets does not affect that if in the end you have the correct action for your guitar. Of course, also the frets must be well fitted on the fretboard, the nut and saddle also well built, the correct angle set between neck and guitar box...etc. So buzzing problems may occur cause of the low action you have on your guitar. And each guitar is different in this aspect. But this is just one reason of many. Daniele Chiesa talks about some of the other reasons in his last video published just a few days ago here in Madera. (on minute 14.20s) Also in another video here about the Importance of a well-built Nut we talk about this issue and how it can produce buzzing problems if it is not well built.
It hurts whe I play. The frets on my classical feel tiny, I often tense my fingers so much just to hold the string down
Check this one for your problem th-cam.com/video/KJv0DR3bgUw/w-d-xo.html
A major disadvantage that the high frets have is that in some difficult positions and chords that have to open the fingers for the left hand, you slide easily, this means that you sound out of tune. With low frets the fingers touch the wood and are more stable, this is very important!
Thanks for your comment. Pepe Romero is using these high frets in almost all the guitars he used for his recordings and concerts since the 90's. If the guitar doesn't have these high frets, as the Rodriguez's he used, he took out the frets it has and changed them for the high frets.
@@maderaguitarras It doesn't matter what Pepe did, every musician is unique and plays in a different way. Logic says that the high frets slide easily, especially in difficult positions for the left hand, they are not stable that's for sure. Everyone has to look at the pros and cons and decide. I can mention a bigger name than Pepe who plays in very low frets, but it doesn't make sense.
My meaning Spyros is that is difficult to see that out of tune problem using these frets that you mentioned.
@@maderaguitarras When I say out of tune, I mean that as you play a difficult position for the left hand, then some string can slide down, you know what I mean? This happens very often when a guitar has high frets. Of course, if someone gets used to it, then fine. Frets also change the sound of a guitar, this is known.
I know what you mean. I didn't find that problem of sliding down. And guitarists I know use these frets also didn't mention it. Maybe we are talking about some other kind of frets or different measures... I don't know. But the ones I had and try I can't see this problem. Thanks Spyros anyway for your thoughts about it.
Can I ask you how called this type of frets? Jumbo ?
Jumbo medium Lazzarini mentioned to me
what store sells these high frets?
In US I think you can find it in StewMac. In Europe Madinter.
Would it help with keeping all the strings pressed down in a barre as the finger is not straight but contacts the wood of the normal fret in places and not in others?
With barre is the same. The effort is just a bit less with tall frets than normal ones. But not a lot. Almost the same.
What are the specs for your tall frets?
The ones on Paula Lazzarini guitar are Dumbo Medium if I am right.
But there is a noise produced on lift of the note. Seems to make matters worse
Don't see your point Julian. Trying to know what is your point listening the video in fact I found there is more noise lifting the string on the normal frets than on the high ones.
@@maderaguitarras Does that come across on the video though at the lift moments?
Lift moments with thin frets = no noise
Lift moments with large frets = noise
I think I see now your point. You are talking about those little movements without almost lifting nothing the fingertip I'm doing it to show how to play in the different parts of the space between frets and to listen to the note sound you get. But you can see I cut the note and leave the fingertip touching the string above it. That you don't do it in this way when you play normally a piece of music. Yes, I suppose I should have lifted the fingertip more to avoid that noise. That's easy to avoid. But I repeat I was just focusing on showing the sound you get from playing in different positions.
I think it's not good for the tune, especialy with G string. Need a better "light touch" control, but for a very, very good musician, why not ?!!!
I think if you try one of these you will see you can play in a normal way as you play other guitars with normal frets. No need to change the "touch". Thanks for your comment.
ok, it is easier to produce a clean note...... but it means you can't play 99/100 classical guitars if you get too used to it. Also.... in my humble opinion... the guitar will start sounding like a mini piano. The expression gained from resistance of the wood is lost. I watched pepe romero.. he is amazing and I did think his guitar was amazing clean sounding.. but that made is slightly more boring.