Wingspan is the iPhone of board games! It's not doing anything truly new, but it is a lot of good ideas, executed well and put into together into one stellar design package. Because the design is so coherent and the theme is so accessible lots of people who are not familiar with all the other stuff in the market have come on board. I am sure Wingspan seems extremely innovative if all you are used to is Risk and Monopoly - but it is to its credit that it has brought so many of those people into the hobby.
Well, I didn't play too many new games last year, but I do have a reasonably big collection of family - and some strategy - games, and the way Wingspan handles action selection (card activation, improving your actions, etc.) did feel fresh & novel to me.
Gizmos by CMON came a couple of years earlier and has the exact same card activation thing going on when you activate a row in Wingspan. Both games are similar overall. Gizmos is probably not the first game to have that either. Wingspan is being called innovative because it sold a lot. That is the only reason. For many people (such as yourself i would guess), it was their first encounter with this kind of engine builder... hence why they called it innovative. If you had played the other games that came before that are very similar... you would not say it is. Now wether Wingspan or Gizmos (or other games prior) is the better game? Most would say Wingspan... but being the better game would make it win the best game award... not one in innovation.
Council of Four has a very similar activation mechanism: When you place an emporium you activate its location and all those connected to it where you also have an emporium. I find it more fun than Wingspan's system and, no, it doesn't look as good as Wingspan, but few games do.
Nailed it. The innovation wasn't just in the mechanics, but in the whole damned package. The theme, art, the broad appeal and the mechanics that are just complex enough to be engaging, without requiring a massive gaming beard to be comfy with.
Innovation is a means to an end rather than an end in itself. The end being novel, fresh gameplay. You can do very well taking something that already exists and making it as good as possible. Lord of Waterdeep is the very antithesis of innovative as it feels like a lowest common denominator worker placement game. It's still a very good game having pinched the best parts of others. Real innovation is rare enough that it is forced to reward it annually. I would prefer it was rewarded by special prizes - like outstanding contribution prizes for actors. Some innovative games - Worker Placement - Keydom per Google Role Selection - Citadels. Customisable card games - Magic tG. Deckbuilder - Dominion. Area control - El Grande (in the limited meaning). Player Powers - Cosmic Encounter. Card Driven Games - We the People. Roll & Write games - No idea but I wish they hadn't. I'm probably setting the bar a bit high here :) There is a lot of scope for second order innovation -eg mixing two game styles in novel ways. TI3 - role selection plus 4x. A Feast for Odin - Tiles plus Worker Placement Mage Knight - deckbuilder plus dungeon crawler etc Or is Tzollkin innovative - wheel plus worker placement feels like to to me.
I completely agreed with everything you said, Matt. I also feel that since it was obvious that Wingspan was becoming successful and started attracting criticism, there has been an undercurrent of misogyny and gatekeeping at the source of the criticism aimed at the game, its designer and those that are choosing to play it as their first non-mainstream board game.
Nice argument Matt... I own and have played Wingspan countless times...I have 90 odd games...do j think it's innovative? Yes...when you take the game in the whole bigger world of gaming then that's where the innovation happens... New and experienced gamers alike buying the game... Waffling on a bit,sorry... Was it the most innovative game I have played? No far from it... But everyone I have taught and shown it to have loved it...and have not seen a game like it... That's innovation.. Great vid Matt 👍
When it comes to innovation I wasn't sure about Wingspan but you certainly make some interesting points. This game definitely deserves awards but maybe not quite as many as it has been getting. I like it enough but never quite got the excitement others have.
I think the Golden Geeks would be much improved by awarding the Best Game, and then removing that winner from all the other categories before calculating the remaining winners. And when I'm president of the world...
Soooo... basically. Wingspan is innovative because it sold a lot? I do not buy that argument. You say it's innovative because the whole package, the sum of it's part, went after a wider audience not used to this kind of game. ... so did Gizmos by CMON, 2 years before, and the comparison to Gizmo is fair: both games are incredibly similar and have the same level of complexity. So even by that barometer, Wingspan is not innovative. Pretty sure Gizmos was not the first either to offer such a package... I think overall your first point explains it all: people voted for the game they knew and liked... because it sold more it won as more people knew it. The category did not matter. If it had been nominated in an ameritrash category, it would have won that also. And here lies the problem with all awards based on popularity contests: companies who spend more money on advertisements will always win those awards over smaller publishers who cannot afford it. The former sells more as people become aware of those games. The others are ignored. Bggs awards and ranking, i completely ignore nowadays. The best games ranked there are those that have the hype train behind them and only a small percentage of the whole is actually dedicated to wether the game is actually any good. Wingspan: best family game, best artwork, best game of the year... sure. I can understand that. Innovative... when you have to do mental exercises (like you did in this video) to find a way to justify it being in this category... i think it's a sign it does not belong there.
GODDAMNIT I forgot Gizmos. You're right, it does have a very similar card activation system (from reading the rules, I haven't played it). However, it was released less than a year before Wingspan (June 2018-ish vs January 2019) which, given the timescales involved in board game development puts things in the category of 'simultaneous invention' for my money. PWH and EH both innovated in how they developed the tableau activation. For me this win highlighted the other ways board games can innovate - in theme, in presentation, in bringing typically complex ideas to a wider audience. Reaching a whole new market is an example of innovation in the business usage of the word, even though it can be validly argued that such breakouts are often down more to luck than skill, the careful choice of theme and art and production and all the rest of it put them in the best possible place for such a breakout to occur. Of course, as I said in the video, you may prefer an innovation award to prioritise purely mechanical innovation and I completely respect that. But I am enjoying the mental exercises.
I lost faith in Bgg some time ago, but it's actually not their fault. the hobby has become too mainstream and fluded with money grabbing mentality and little innovation and gameplay progress is involved in BGs in last two years. oh yeah, and KS killed BGs
KS certainly changed board gaming. I'm sorry you don't like how things have changed on the whole, but at least the games you do love will always be there.
What kind of innovation do you want to see rewarded?
Wingspan is the iPhone of board games! It's not doing anything truly new, but it is a lot of good ideas, executed well and put into together into one stellar design package. Because the design is so coherent and the theme is so accessible lots of people who are not familiar with all the other stuff in the market have come on board. I am sure Wingspan seems extremely innovative if all you are used to is Risk and Monopoly - but it is to its credit that it has brought so many of those people into the hobby.
And Stonemaier Games is now the Apple of board games! Of course! It all makes sense now!
Well, I didn't play too many new games last year, but I do have a reasonably big collection of family - and some strategy - games, and the way Wingspan handles action selection (card activation, improving your actions, etc.) did feel fresh & novel to me.
Gizmos by CMON came a couple of years earlier and has the exact same card activation thing going on when you activate a row in Wingspan. Both games are similar overall. Gizmos is probably not the first game to have that either.
Wingspan is being called innovative because it sold a lot. That is the only reason.
For many people (such as yourself i would guess), it was their first encounter with this kind of engine builder... hence why they called it innovative. If you had played the other games that came before that are very similar... you would not say it is.
Now wether Wingspan or Gizmos (or other games prior) is the better game? Most would say Wingspan... but being the better game would make it win the best game award... not one in innovation.
Great video! Hope to see more of these
You seem... familiar ;)
I agree with this, and your thoughts on innovation!
Thanks Gabby! :D
great job
Thanks Paul :D
Council of Four has a very similar activation mechanism: When you place an emporium you activate its location and all those connected to it where you also have an emporium. I find it more fun than Wingspan's system and, no, it doesn't look as good as Wingspan, but few games do.
*grabs popcorn*
This is gonna be good
Nailed it. The innovation wasn't just in the mechanics, but in the whole damned package. The theme, art, the broad appeal and the mechanics that are just complex enough to be engaging, without requiring a massive gaming beard to be comfy with.
Brilliant.
Thanks Steven!
Innovation is a means to an end rather than an end in itself. The end being novel, fresh gameplay. You can do very well taking something that already exists and making it as good as possible. Lord of Waterdeep is the very antithesis of innovative as it feels like a lowest common denominator worker placement game. It's still a very good game having pinched the best parts of others.
Real innovation is rare enough that it is forced to reward it annually. I would prefer it was rewarded by special prizes - like outstanding contribution prizes for actors.
Some innovative games - Worker Placement - Keydom per Google
Role Selection - Citadels. Customisable card games - Magic tG. Deckbuilder - Dominion. Area control - El Grande (in the limited meaning). Player Powers - Cosmic Encounter. Card Driven Games - We the People. Roll & Write games - No idea but I wish they hadn't.
I'm probably setting the bar a bit high here :) There is a lot of scope for second order innovation -eg mixing two game styles in novel ways. TI3 - role selection plus 4x. A Feast for Odin - Tiles plus Worker Placement Mage Knight - deckbuilder plus dungeon crawler etc
Or is Tzollkin innovative - wheel plus worker placement feels like to to me.
I completely agreed with everything you said, Matt.
I also feel that since it was obvious that Wingspan was becoming successful and started attracting criticism, there has been an undercurrent of misogyny and gatekeeping at the source of the criticism aimed at the game, its designer and those that are choosing to play it as their first non-mainstream board game.
It sucks that things like this always have to bring out the worst elements of the community.
Nice video
Thanks Joshua!
Nice argument Matt...
I own and have played Wingspan countless times...I have 90 odd games...do j think it's innovative? Yes...when you take the game in the whole bigger world of gaming then that's where the innovation happens...
New and experienced gamers alike buying the game...
Waffling on a bit,sorry...
Was it the most innovative game I have played? No far from it...
But everyone I have taught and shown it to have loved it...and have not seen a game like it...
That's innovation..
Great vid Matt 👍
Thanks so much! And I waffled on for 8 mins, so any waffly comments are perfectly acceptable!
BGG ratings are broken anyway.
I can't disagree with that
When it comes to innovation I wasn't sure about Wingspan but you certainly make some interesting points. This game definitely deserves awards but maybe not quite as many as it has been getting. I like it enough but never quite got the excitement others have.
I think the Golden Geeks would be much improved by awarding the Best Game, and then removing that winner from all the other categories before calculating the remaining winners. And when I'm president of the world...
Soooo... basically.
Wingspan is innovative because it sold a lot?
I do not buy that argument.
You say it's innovative because the whole package, the sum of it's part, went after a wider audience not used to this kind of game.
... so did Gizmos by CMON, 2 years before, and the comparison to Gizmo is fair: both games are incredibly similar and have the same level of complexity. So even by that barometer, Wingspan is not innovative. Pretty sure Gizmos was not the first either to offer such a package...
I think overall your first point explains it all: people voted for the game they knew and liked... because it sold more it won as more people knew it. The category did not matter. If it had been nominated in an ameritrash category, it would have won that also.
And here lies the problem with all awards based on popularity contests: companies who spend more money on advertisements will always win those awards over smaller publishers who cannot afford it. The former sells more as people become aware of those games. The others are ignored.
Bggs awards and ranking, i completely ignore nowadays. The best games ranked there are those that have the hype train behind them and only a small percentage of the whole is actually dedicated to wether the game is actually any good.
Wingspan: best family game, best artwork, best game of the year... sure. I can understand that.
Innovative... when you have to do mental exercises (like you did in this video) to find a way to justify it being in this category... i think it's a sign it does not belong there.
GODDAMNIT I forgot Gizmos. You're right, it does have a very similar card activation system (from reading the rules, I haven't played it). However, it was released less than a year before Wingspan (June 2018-ish vs January 2019) which, given the timescales involved in board game development puts things in the category of 'simultaneous invention' for my money. PWH and EH both innovated in how they developed the tableau activation.
For me this win highlighted the other ways board games can innovate - in theme, in presentation, in bringing typically complex ideas to a wider audience. Reaching a whole new market is an example of innovation in the business usage of the word, even though it can be validly argued that such breakouts are often down more to luck than skill, the careful choice of theme and art and production and all the rest of it put them in the best possible place for such a breakout to occur.
Of course, as I said in the video, you may prefer an innovation award to prioritise purely mechanical innovation and I completely respect that. But I am enjoying the mental exercises.
I lost faith in Bgg some time ago, but it's actually not their fault. the hobby has become too mainstream and fluded with money grabbing mentality and little innovation and gameplay progress is involved in BGs in last two years.
oh yeah, and KS killed BGs
KS certainly changed board gaming. I'm sorry you don't like how things have changed on the whole, but at least the games you do love will always be there.