And yet Rolex still makes far fewer watches than they can sell. Obviously the consumer demand behavior for these watches is far more nuanced/complicated than you are allowing for. If the perceived quality/desirability of a product exceeds that of its competitors, the amount of malignant behavior on the part of those who can provide it becomes ever more acceptable.
Don’t buy it. There are more ‘premium’ customers who buy jewelry etc. from the Rolex ADs than there are watches to sell. As we all know, these customers aren’t treated poorly, they’re the AD’s bread and butter, and they’ll keep coming back for more.
What Rolex needs to do. Have an actual waitlist. I should be able go walk into an AD. Have them submit an order request, give me an accurate wait time directly from Rolex +/- 2 months. Take a 25% deposit and pay the rest on receipt.
@@petermartin9494 yes i always wondered why part of the business model is to force people to buy undesirable models in order to get the popular ones. why not just focus all the production resources on the desirable models? They shouldn't penalize their loyal customers for their poor design and marketing choices.
Waitlist? How long are we going to participate in this ridiculous kabuki theater? Where are the adults? There is no such thing as a waitlist. Never has been. There are only preferred customer lists. If you spend enough money or know the right people, you get your choice of Rolex. Otherwise, you are out of luck. Can we all come back to some semblance of reality? They say the worst lies are the ones we tell ourselves.
@@vinnyfranciswatches These super-clever CEOs never seem to understand that you cannot expand forever. How many millions of decent Swiss watches have The Chinese bought? How many who can afford to buy one, don't have one? Why would you expect the same 10 million people to buy multiple copies of the same "forever" watch every other year? And exactly what is their incentive to buy the usual suspects when 1) There is not a single steel Rolex to buy in the country 2) Richemont have increased their prices by as much as 45% in A YEAR 3) You can go into the Apple shop and spend considerably less to look extra trendy.
Some. IWC is the worst offender IMHO. The Ingenieur at $8-9k would have gotten so many new customers. Rolex could still raise the popular steel model prices $2-3k and sell every one. Daytonas - $5-6k.
Yes, and Rolex offers 1,360 different configurations in the 2025 catalog and only 15 of them are popular. Use your common sense. If they made 1.4 million submariners, GMT Master IIs, and Daytonas, there would be no such thing as a waitlist and you might even be picking them up at a discount.
Usual non-sense response… Of the 1.4M (a figure you’ve made up but let’s go with it) consider then a subset in the hundreds of thousands that are the popular SS models. Then consider that there’s likely 10 fold more demand for these worldwide than supply. That’s why there’s a wait…
@@KeepingWatchUK there is no Rolex who can compete with a grand Seiko in finishing and movement and s more beautiful dials. A Rolex enthousiast is status driven, Bmw fan and a hollow shell Inside. They only want one thing : attention from others, to mask up there loss of empathy understanding of others. You find more interesting talk in a casio owner who loves the concept of time and understanding
There is no mechanical Grand Seiko that can compete with Rolex in terms of rate accuracy and build quality. Grand Seiko will put itself on Rolex's level when it learns to make competent bracelets
I refuse to buy any normal production product that is not available when I want to buy it. It is ridiculous that a company would refuse to sell you a product.
I can still remember when Rolex dealers would practically beg you to buy their watches…. Now, they’ve gotten so snooty it’s such a turn off. F the flippers
@@RiazKhan-el9nh they would even offer 5-10% off retail & call you to say , we can go 15% “just for you “.. ha ha. Hard to believe it happened but it did.
Just went to an AD in manchester. Loads of watches for sale including gmt bi metal rootbeer, smooth bezel datejusts etc. honestly you can see the same watches available in every rolex shop now. Rolex ADs can’t be super cocky anymore
I used to dream of owning a Rolex. Now, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole after watching the practises they've taken part in, and the complete lack of effort to get their product to real watch enthusiasts instead of flippers. I am now the very happy owner of a speedy 57 😁
I feel very similarly. Looking at basically any brand besides Rolex. At $6K, the OP is a great watch. At $8K the Submariner is great. Why would anyone pay $9K/$12K for the same watches secondary? As for debasing myself at an authorized dealer, forget it. Lastly, you nailed it with the customers Rolex decided to cater to, douchebag influencers essentially who know nothing about watches other than Rolex = Money.
That’s a nice piece. I don’t own an Omega currently, but if and when I do I’m very confident it’ll be the same piece - the original style, with the black sandwich dial and the broad arrow hands. Very nice.
Many millions of people feel the same way, including myself. Twenty five years ago I used to look in to jewelers window displays at Datejusts and think 'Wow! Imagine owning such a thing.' Now I have 2 Grand Seikos in my collection and no desire to prostrate myself before the altar of The Boardroom Trinket.
I put my name on the list for a Rolex in December…got the call today. I kinda like this new world. Dare I say… some pieces will enter the world of discount potentially.
Yep, white gold Yachtmaster. I've said I'm not ready this month. However, a few mins on other websites shows 8k savings versus new for a 2022 model. Peace of mind…8k is a lot to pay for that, when chrono offers checks, papers etc…
hmm yes, depends on your situation I guess but with all of these retail price increases, even the wealthiest of individual will now be thinking twice, that’s a huge gap
I love how Rolex says to come into store then register your interest aka they want to personally audit you to determine if you’re a one off purchase or a billionaire.
@@NPC123UH right, but you can buy a CErtified pre owned online and they could care less who you are. F the AD, still love Rolex just wish they would cut the scum AD’s out. I bought a Rolex almost 2 years ago, went on the bs waitlist for a steel sub. After dropping 16k on a watch you thing the pos would at least have the decency to reply back when I inquire. I stop in, acts like an a hole like his Shi… don’t stink. After bs with the guy, giving me some bull oh there is a 2 year wait and your about a year in, like what?? How dumb, it’s like they put these wait times on certain watches even if they have them, you still have to wait this amount of time? Well they had a ladies Datejust available, my wife wanted to try it on, all of a sudden, hey take a seat, can I get you a drink? After that , I will never go back Into that AD or ever reach back out to that guy. One and done. No thanks.
I just went to my Rolex AD in Glasgow last week to check if I'm still on the waiting list for the no-date submariner. The woman said we never take you off the list and I said I have been on the list for over 3 1/2 years. she said I would have to be patient . I just ordered a Ginault Ocean Rove ll 2.5 will be here in 6 weeks. Rolex can stick it ,I also sold my 2020 AirKing because I really don't want anything to do with Rolex ever again.
To eliminate the resell Rolex, Rolex should build on demand meaning receiving pre-order and try to meet the demand rather than produce the models without demand for those models.
let's not kid ourselves , quartz will never have the heritage of the automatic movements , i'd rather have a lower tiered automatic brand than a let's say quartz omega ... the mechanism is the value.
@@vinnyfranciswatches it depends here what do you want and apreciate : the brand aka the value percieved , the look , the horology , the heritage , the conversation started ... as i said i guess that is my kind of watch snobbery . quartz is utilitarian ... i still apreciate them and wear but it's hard to get any other value from a quarz . fun story someone with a seiko got in a rich environment and everyone considered his seiko 5 as a rolex copy ... seko being imho a good watch brand .
They should open boutiques like Breitling and Longines that actually sells watches not museum exhibits with staff twiddling their thumbs offering to sell them if you buy some trinkets. If they don’t change to this model they’ll seriously crash.
@@vinnyfranciswatchesYup. Just the sale. And that watch is very unlikely to be unique and there will be another one to be sourced elsewhere. Buyers have power; we just need to collectively understand and embrace this.
Omega refuses to listen to their customers and haven’t put Tfit on the fly adjustment on their bracelets. Once they start, more people will buy those watches
@ well I was told by Jomas that I wouldn’t get the manufacturer warranty, I would only get a Jomas warranty for a year. So I decided to buy from an authorized dealer to get my Omega warranty for five years.
Great analysis. Makes sense - more real watch buyers get ‘the call’ - do grey stock doesn’t rise, grey prices settle in for those too impatient to wait.
Because you are a nobody in their eyes. Have you bought lots of pricy merchandise (and, particularly, jewelry) from them over time? If not, then you ARE a nobody to them. They aren't making bank from selling watches at retail to one time purchasers. They make bank from jewelry customers and (at least until fairly recently) at way over retail to grey market flippers. You don't exist to them. If you did, you'd have your watch.
@ That's not going to work. The only thing AD's pay attention to is how much you spend on high margin items in their store. You could be on a thousand waitlists but unless they see they have pulled high margin sales out of you, you aren't going to be considered for a high demand, low allocation watch. You might just get a Datejust or OP that nobody else wants, but that's about it.
WOS told me to drive to Manchester from London to express my interest in a GP Laureato they had in stock. No guarantees I could actually buy the watch. Maybe I needed a better spend history on other items they said. After that experience, I will NEVER EVER shop from WOS now they are begging for our custom.
Taking it for granted that customers are willing to wait a very long time to buy a Rolex Submariner is, in my opinion, an enormous error that should not be underestimated. Furthermore, purchasing at a premium is an option that leads to other brands while saving hard earned money. I am now a very happy owner of a Speedmaster Pro, will be looking to buy Seamaster 300 in the near future and still have some money left over.
Exactly...being ”rejected” with disdain is very off putting in the end. Personally I always thought my spine was more important than a steel 3 hands mass produced watch
Rolex operates as part of a charitable trust; given proper stewardship of the Wilsdorf foundation Rolex isn't required to sell a single watch to the masses
I bought a Batman for 16.5k and my name is still on waitlist for the past 4 years. They are never going to call me and I’m ok with that. I gotta support the grey market f the AD.
I tried on a mechanical Grand Seiko...I loved the look of it, but, on 'my' wrist it just appeared too bulky. 'Chisholm Hunter' UK steered me toward Quartz...Grand Seiko have a number of models. The attention to detail in the mechanical watches is carried forward into the Quartz range. I bought a black dial SBGX261G at the time £1900. I was immediately seduced by the high polished indices, the thinner casing and, best of all, the lugs on the watch body which now fall below the back plate resulting in a wrist hugging pleasure. It's my go to watch simply because it is always 'ON' time and ready. Furthermore I love the weight and silky design of the steel bracelet. GS are beginning to incorporate some of their wonderful dial designs into their Quartz Catalogue ....and yes ... I still take pleasure in my Mechanical, or automatic watches too, and I would love a GS Spring Drive too - what a staggering innovation that is.
very eloquently described there, i cannot think of a better example of how quartz watches can still be high horology, their zaratsu finishing is second to none, many timepieces of 10x its price do not compare
I had bad experiences with a AD in Western Australia. They gave you the impression you need them more than they need you. Judgmental and arrogant. It’s just a watch. Rolex is a good watch but not rare. They are many brands out there that will treat their customers with respect.
They should stop playing games, go to diamond district & there cases are full of watches in their coffins. Get serial number off them & remove the dealer for selling it to the grey market.
I've been arguing for a while now that luxury watch prices - both new, grey and pre-owned - have spiralled out of control. The problem is that younger buyers aren't growing up in an era where watches are a necessity to tell the time because your entire day can be managed through your smartphone. If younger buyers are even wearing watches at all, chances are that they're wearing an Apple watch or other smart watch. With the looming financial issues around the world and people struggling to put food on the table, or a roof over their head, a £10k watch purchase just isn't on their radar - and once those buyers (and let's be real, single-watch buyers are the bulk of the market) aren't buying any more, where does that leave the brands? I see one of two things happening. One is that the luxury watch companies carry on as they are and in a decade or so, flagging sales will see them facing a crisis akin to the quartz crisis back in the 70s, where long-established brands simply go defunct. Two is that they start to produce "sister brands" marketed towards the lower end for first time buyers and/or single-watch buyers who just want that one "luxury" watch (think Rolex with Tudor, before Tudor prices also went stupid).
3 years and I’m still waiting for a call for a SS Submariner without other purchases. The AD offered if I spend $5K on a watch that they have in stock then the Sub will be available right away! I declined and no calls ever since.
I think this is the same scenario in most countries. My AD said that I should put the more classic models, Datejust, Oyster Perpetual, etc, on request/waitlist, I did, but they didn't even have those in stock to sell me, so how does that work? It's been 9 months, and still no call.
@@sparkle1272001this is so crazy. Years ago I bought a classic stainless one in Lucerne Bucherer & they even gave me a 5% discount. The gold watches you can get a bigger discount. No waitlist. I just walked in. And I got Vat back since I am in US.
@sparkle1272001 I will never use a Rolex AD again. I went to 3 of them and was treated like I was a joke. I found a magnificent trustworthy dealer in my city who I'd absolutely recommend to get you exactly whatever you want. Lmk if you're interested and I will forward you her information and their website. You will not regret it at all.
Awful behaviour by ADs. "Hey. Buy something you don't want, that is worth way less than you pay, so you may have the honour of buying the watch you want at the price stated."
I got "the call" back in 2023, I have the Rolex I want, so I'm done with the brand anyway. I hope these "waitlist" games end, so people who never got the call also get what they want. Rolex needs to stop playing with the customers. I understand why they do it, the tactic to keep demand high by creating an artificial shortage works, but it doesn't create new customers that are happy with the service they expect to get.
Rolex has become an overhyped product in the last 10-15 years. Quite frankly, I enjoy my quartz Certina DS Podium "Preci-drive" , which technically keeps time within 10 seconds per year: why would I want a mechanical Rolex, which comes nowhere near such performance, and costs an arm and a leg?
Went to the AD the other day. They said demand is still 4 to 1 (4 people for every one Rolex) but they said I could put my name on the list for multiple models whereas a year ago I could only pick one. They were encouraging when I expressed interest in an Explorer 2 and totally discouraging when I expressed interest in a Sub (said I could be waiting a few years).
Bring back the times when you would expect a 20-30% discount at the AD. I never shop at ADs anymore because they all think people are paying full retail.
The competition is I can go to a dealer and I know damn well I'm getting a genuine piece without question. I also get the brand new Rolex buying experience and get on the radar of Rolex if in the future I want a limited edition.
Eh - anecdotally, i was just in a mall recently whuch has a number of jewelry stores, most of which sell mid-tier luxury watches as well as Rolexes. There were plenty of Breitling, Tag Heuer, Tudor, Omega, Longines, and the like, but their Rolex displays (which are on rhe outside windows to entice mall-goers to come inside) were ridiculously empty. I mean, where there's room to display say, 4 or 5 different watches on a display stand, they only have one - and it's often like a 28mm ladies' datejust. So, at least where i live, either demand still far outstrips supply, and the ADs can still play their "Silly peasant, Rolexes are for Kings!" games, or Rolex is deliberately trying to go out of business by refusing to even *display* their wares!
When you are a company like with a profit margin of 60-90% they have a lot of wiggle room to drop prices and still remain profitable. Their best decision would be to end waitlists. The rule of supply and demand still rules. Grey market is still alive for now.
I don’t think we will get stability, prices will continue to fall and for many Rolex watches you will be able to get a discount at the AD for date just etc, just as before the pandemic
Rolex made their deathbed, now its time to lay in it. Also fyi for those who don't know Rolex in asia is rejecting warranty for pieces which have been opened or polished. So.. grey market has become even more unappealing.
I think you are wrong about quartz’s coming back. Quartz watches are so yesterday. For luxury watches SOLAR is a must for the price. I think it is just plain stupid to pay exorbitant prices for a quartz watch. If you fancy quartz, buy TIMEX.
but that was my point, they won’t be exorbitant prices, imagine a seamaster…exactly the same watch but with a quartz movement inside for £3k rather than £5.5k, just like they used to do, it opens up a whole new market for them
When they claim they lose money, it just mean that don't make as much as they hope to but still making a lot. Just like most of businesses mark up 80% then go On Sale 20%-40% off. It's a scam
Thanks for the info in this video. One aspect doesn’t make sense. If there’s a shortage of unworn watches on the grey market, this will surely lead to prices for them increasing again, perhaps not as madly as before but small incremental increases are more likely than being ‘locked in’ , don’t you think?
If the waitlists are ending, who’s going to be buying unworn pieces from grey market dealers? I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole. One day, I might grace an AD with my presence when they’ve got plenty of inventory and are offering discounts.
@@londoncallingwithsimon6817 If what I suspect is going to happen to the economy soon, there aren’t going to be any buyers at all. Can’t eat a yellow gold Rolex Daytona.
I’ll believe it when I can walk in to any Rolex AD and buy any model I want at MSRP. I very much doubt that will happen this year, or for several more.
Went to Dubai & Abu Dhabi... wanted to get a gold Daytona(oysterflex)... Visited 5 ADs... there was none. All ADs told be same thing: "Sorry we don't have one even for exhibition, they are almost impossible to get and demand is extremely high". On the other hand, all Omega boutiques had the full gold speedmasters and one offered me a 10% discount and guaranteed snoopy in the following months. So don't know what to say about this scarcity era ending... looks about the same as previous years.
yeah that’s perhaps a Dubai thing though, where wealth is far greater than here in the UK or the US. In the UK, a full gold daytona or two tone is becoming more obtainable though a spend history is still required. These are now below retail watches on secondary market
Oh please. SS Rolex is impossible to buy new. Wait lists for the GMT2 are YEARS long anywhere in the U.S. Many places have 5+ year waiting lists. Obviously "preferred" (big spending) customers do not wait that long, but the average Joe who buys a watch here and there from a Rolex dealer is waiting YEARS and it will never, ever get better.
Got a DJ 42 green dial jubilee having asked in December last to be added to the list. Picked up yesterday, all two tone and precious metal watches in the AD’s window were available for immediate sale; no so for steel sports models.
If Rolex wasn't run by dolts, they'd leave dealer pricing alone, triple their MSRP and allow dealers to price at their prerogative. BTW, Tag Heuer is not "doing very well". They are swimming in a fetid sea of mediocrity and customer disregard.
There are thousands of less expensive vintage pieces all o er rhe world that still look good today. If one loves watches that much but on a limited budget, this could be a geat option. Manufacturers need to figure out a way to inegrate modern tech with old school mechanis. Otherswise it get redundant and boring. Just look at the Cubitus😅
There are other very nice models out there from Rado, Mido, lower-end Grand Seiko 9f models that are wonderful and that anyone should be proud to own. I love my Rolexes, but also have a Grand Seiko 9F, Rado Golden Horse and two Mido Ocean Star Tributes and am happy with them all of them.
I just got a sea dweller yesterday and it was my first visit ever to Rolex store in Toronto, they were kinda ok with all my requests except for the Daytona & the GMT they expressed difficulty. But even the sub they said they can get it to me soonish if o want. Patek got me the annual calendar 5905 from the first visit also. I guess we will go back to pre 2020 soon when Rolex was selling in Costco 😀
ABSOfucingLUTELY!!!! Spring Dr., Zara polish and assemble parts and only 40,000 a year versus these robot conveyor belt 1.3million!!! bullshit 😂. Google sbga053 or 051
I have been on a “list” and two AD’s for 8 months, nothing yet. The last AD I went into in Bristol had the watch I wanted on display, and a few others I would have considered, and wouldn’t sell me a single thing.
Bring back discounts at the dealer. I'd like a Rolex 1908, but the price is too much. That model should be no more than about £17,000 and that's pushing it. 🤡
I think the slowing demand will precipitate a more severe downward spiral...once any of us proles can walk in to the dealer and buy a Rolex, they won't be nearly as desirable to us proles. Kind of a catch-22.
I actually went into a Rolex store once, and they had no watches to purchase right then and there, but I could order one and would have to wait a few months.
When/if I can go into my Rolex local AD/boutique and get the watch I want that day, or maybe a week later, I will buy. Otherwise I have zero interest in getting involved in this whole waiting list/gray market game. I’ll just buy something else.
The bubble has finally burst and I personally don’t have any sympathy. They have had a license to print money for far too long. I recently tried to exchange 2 tag heuer red bull and f1 watches both 2 years old in mint condition in exchange for a tag heuer used priced at £6500 only to be offered £550 for both pieces. I will no longer buy in this market and will limit my purchase to no more than £500 new. And wear the watch and enjoy my purchase rather than think your going to make any money back
Tag is doing great things right now so good choices mate, they’ll never let you down. ai have a series 3 vintage Tag in special edition red and i love it
If you need to tell time, get a $10 watch at target. We mostly don't need to because we have our phones. The higher priced watches are frequently just Veblen goods to flex status. People don't buy a Rolex watch, they buy a Rolex. Not much difference between a Nautilus and a tennis bracelet. Well, you can wear an AP to the office. One can't conspicuously consume affordable. Expensive is *the* virtue for that segment. Watches are jewelry today. Thirty years ago, people used watches as a tool. A quartz Omega made sense. Today Garman and Apple watch are that space. An Omega quartz doesn't make sense. Swatch don't need or watch a cheap Omega.
Treat your customers with contempt and you will lose them
And yet Rolex still makes far fewer watches than they can sell. Obviously the consumer demand behavior for these watches is far more nuanced/complicated than you are allowing for. If the perceived quality/desirability of a product exceeds that of its competitors, the amount of malignant behavior on the part of those who can provide it becomes ever more acceptable.
@@chuckschillingvideos its true im rolex
Don’t buy it. There are more ‘premium’ customers who buy jewelry etc. from the Rolex ADs than there are watches to sell. As we all know, these customers aren’t treated poorly, they’re the AD’s bread and butter, and they’ll keep coming back for more.
What Rolex needs to do.
Have an actual waitlist. I should be able go walk into an AD. Have them submit an order request, give me an accurate wait time directly from Rolex +/- 2 months. Take a 25% deposit and pay the rest on receipt.
I agree - but then Rolex (and not the AD) is left with unpopular watches unsold
@@stevenbrown4060then they shouldn't be making the garbage watches and make pieces the market likes instead
@@stevenbrown4060then they will need to be discounted like every other shop in the world
Why is Rolex making unpopular watches?
@@petermartin9494 yes i always wondered why part of the business model is to force people to buy undesirable models in order to get the popular ones. why not just focus all the production resources on the desirable models? They shouldn't penalize their loyal customers for their poor design and marketing choices.
Not an ounce of sympathy from me.
What about a millimeter?
@@steelsteez6118
😂 41 to be exact
@@steelsteez6118 Nope.
Man…I bet that keeps them up at night
Rolex is a pretty undesirable watch. It’s mid at everything. Mid-Design, Mid-movement, High Prices. No point getting a Rolex
We're far from hitting the bottom.
Waitlist? How long are we going to participate in this ridiculous kabuki theater? Where are the adults? There is no such thing as a waitlist. Never has been.
There are only preferred customer lists. If you spend enough money or know the right people, you get your choice of Rolex.
Otherwise, you are out of luck. Can we all come back to some semblance of reality?
They say the worst lies are the ones we tell ourselves.
‘implied waitlists’
Watchmakers got too greedy with 2022 price increases and it’s biting them now
very true, not just 2022 though, every 6 months since!
@@vinnyfranciswatches These super-clever CEOs never seem to understand that you cannot expand forever. How many millions of decent Swiss watches have The Chinese bought? How many who can afford to buy one, don't have one? Why would you expect the same 10 million people to buy multiple copies of the same "forever" watch every other year? And exactly what is their incentive to buy the usual suspects when
1) There is not a single steel Rolex to buy in the country
2) Richemont have increased their prices by as much as 45% in A YEAR
3) You can go into the Apple shop and spend considerably less to look extra trendy.
Some. IWC is the worst offender IMHO. The Ingenieur at $8-9k would have gotten so many new customers.
Rolex could still raise the popular steel model prices $2-3k and sell every one. Daytonas - $5-6k.
If they call they call, if they don’t they don’t. It’s a watch, not a kidney.
They make 1,4 million watches a year and still there is a watchlist! Amazing!
Yes, and Rolex offers 1,360 different configurations in the 2025 catalog and only 15 of them are popular. Use your common sense. If they made 1.4 million submariners, GMT Master IIs, and Daytonas, there would be no such thing as a waitlist and you might even be picking them up at a discount.
Usual non-sense response…
Of the 1.4M (a figure you’ve made up but let’s go with it) consider then a subset in the hundreds of thousands that are the popular SS models. Then consider that there’s likely 10 fold more demand for these worldwide than supply. That’s why there’s a wait…
@steelsteez6118 it was cynical 😉
@@KeepingWatchUK there is no Rolex who can compete with a grand Seiko in finishing and movement and s more beautiful dials. A Rolex enthousiast is status driven, Bmw fan and a hollow shell Inside. They only want one thing : attention from others, to mask up there loss of empathy understanding of others. You find more interesting talk in a casio owner who loves the concept of time and understanding
There is no mechanical Grand Seiko that can compete with Rolex in terms of rate accuracy and build quality. Grand Seiko will put itself on Rolex's level when it learns to make competent bracelets
I know it’s not quite a novel idea, but if Rolex would actually sell watches in their boutiques, that would be cool.
I refuse to buy any normal production product that is not available when I want to buy it. It is ridiculous that a company would refuse to sell you a product.
Yeah, I don't do waitlists, whether it's Rolex or some five hundred dollar microbrand.
I can still remember when Rolex dealers would practically beg you to buy their watches…. Now, they’ve gotten so snooty it’s such a turn off. F the flippers
When was that?
@@RiazKhan-el9nh 10 years ago, maybe less. Only model that has alway been hard to get is the daytona.
@@RiazKhan-el9nh 2000’s. And into the teens I believe. Money printing and social media losers flaunting their watches ruined it.
@@RiazKhan-el9nh they would even offer 5-10% off retail & call you to say , we can go 15% “just for you “.. ha ha. Hard to believe it happened but it did.
Just went to an AD in manchester. Loads of watches for sale including gmt bi metal rootbeer, smooth bezel datejusts etc. honestly you can see the same watches available in every rolex shop now.
Rolex ADs can’t be super cocky anymore
I used to dream of owning a Rolex. Now, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole after watching the practises they've taken part in, and the complete lack of effort to get their product to real watch enthusiasts instead of flippers.
I am now the very happy owner of a speedy 57 😁
Me too, I bought a seamaster professional
I feel very similarly. Looking at basically any brand besides Rolex. At $6K, the OP is a great watch. At $8K the Submariner is great. Why would anyone pay $9K/$12K for the same watches secondary? As for debasing myself at an authorized dealer, forget it. Lastly, you nailed it with the customers Rolex decided to cater to, douchebag influencers essentially who know nothing about watches other than Rolex = Money.
That’s a nice piece. I don’t own an Omega currently, but if and when I do I’m very confident it’ll be the same piece - the original style, with the black sandwich dial and the broad arrow hands. Very nice.
F the flippers
Many millions of people feel the same way, including myself. Twenty five years ago I used to look in to jewelers window displays at Datejusts and think 'Wow! Imagine owning such a thing.'
Now I have 2 Grand Seikos in my collection and no desire to prostrate myself before the altar of The Boardroom Trinket.
I put my name on the list for a Rolex in December…got the call today. I kinda like this new world. Dare I say… some pieces will enter the world of discount potentially.
wow congrats!, may i be nosy and ask which one?
Yep, white gold Yachtmaster. I've said I'm not ready this month. However, a few mins on other websites shows 8k savings versus new for a 2022 model. Peace of mind…8k is a lot to pay for that, when chrono offers checks, papers etc…
Which Rolex reference?
hmm yes, depends on your situation I guess but with all of these retail price increases, even the wealthiest of individual will now be thinking twice, that’s a huge gap
@@vinnyfranciswatchestotally agree.
I love how Rolex says to come into store then register your interest aka they want to personally audit you to determine if you’re a one off purchase or a billionaire.
yep, still happens! forget going into a store wearing shorts and a t shirt
@@NPC123UH right, but you can buy a CErtified pre owned online and they could care less who you are. F the AD, still love Rolex just wish they would cut the scum AD’s out. I bought a Rolex almost 2 years ago, went on the bs waitlist for a steel sub. After dropping 16k on a watch you thing the pos would at least have the decency to reply back when I inquire. I stop in, acts like an a hole like his Shi… don’t stink. After bs with the guy, giving me some bull oh there is a 2 year wait and your about a year in, like what?? How dumb, it’s like they put these wait times on certain watches even if they have them, you still have to wait this amount of time? Well they had a ladies Datejust available, my wife wanted to try it on, all of a sudden, hey take a seat, can I get you a drink? After that , I will never go back
Into that AD or ever reach back out to that guy. One and done. No thanks.
Every new Rolex I bought between 2002 and 2014 was from an AD and was discounted 20-30% under RRP
And we’ll get their again… nothing has change in the Watch world. Just give it time.
We have not seen the bottom. Wait till you see what the economy does in late 25 early 26.
There is no waitlist in China.
Every grandma and Philippino house maid has a Rolex.
Ralex
hey man that's racist.
Yes they have $50 rolex
@@Rainy_Day12234
That's racist man
@@chrislim7976 and funny AF !! 😂
BS: Park City-Las Vegas-Tampa--“exhibition only”. That’s the reality
rootBeer... which AD to hit in Tampa?
Not true - I've bought 2 Rolex in Tampa - Daytona and GMT and also being offered several - market is changing and will continue
@
where in Tampa? where where?
Chickens coming home to roost. Those would-be customers that were shunned not so long ago may be the saviour of WOS.
I just went to my Rolex AD in Glasgow last week to check if I'm still on the waiting list for the no-date submariner. The woman said we never take you off the list and I said I have been on the list for over 3 1/2 years. she said I would have to be patient . I just ordered a Ginault Ocean Rove ll 2.5 will be here in 6 weeks. Rolex can stick it ,I also sold my 2020 AirKing because I really don't want anything to do with Rolex ever again.
Prices dropping seems good to me. If people stop seeing watches as an investment, buy watches they love, that bring them joy to wear the better.
To eliminate the resell Rolex, Rolex should build on demand meaning receiving pre-order and try to meet the demand rather than produce the models without demand for those models.
let's not kid ourselves , quartz will never have the heritage of the automatic movements , i'd rather have a lower tiered automatic brand than a let's say quartz omega ... the mechanism is the value.
hmmm but put yourself in the position of a new entrant to the market, would you care as long as it said Omega on the dial?
@@vinnyfranciswatches it depends here what do you want and apreciate : the brand aka the value percieved , the look , the horology , the heritage , the conversation started ... as i said i guess that is my kind of watch snobbery . quartz is utilitarian ... i still apreciate them and wear but it's hard to get any other value from a quarz . fun story someone with a seiko got in a rich environment and everyone considered his seiko 5 as a rolex copy ... seko being imho a good watch brand .
They should open boutiques like Breitling and Longines that actually sells watches not museum exhibits with staff twiddling their thumbs offering to sell them if you buy some trinkets. If they don’t change to this model they’ll seriously crash.
They still have wait lists. Nothing has changed.
No real wait list. Just a gimmick for AD to selectively sell the watches to whom they want to sell.
I won’t buy a Rolex unless it’s at a dealer. For me that’s part of the experience! Until then I invested into stocks!
It will be a good year for genuine buyers with a few spare quid. Haggle hard is my advice.
always always haggle, you have nothing to lose
@@vinnyfranciswatchesYup. Just the sale. And that watch is very unlikely to be unique and there will be another one to be sourced elsewhere.
Buyers have power; we just need to collectively understand and embrace this.
to much drama with Rolex, I prefer OMEGA 🔥
Just can’t get a manufacturer warranty on the grey market.
usually all manufacturer warranty is not attached to the original buyer, it’s a warranty on the watch and redeemable by anyone internationally
Omega refuses to listen to their customers and haven’t put Tfit on the fly adjustment on their bracelets. Once they start, more people will buy those watches
@ well I was told by Jomas that I wouldn’t get the manufacturer warranty, I would only get a Jomas warranty for a year. So I decided to buy from an authorized dealer to get my Omega warranty for five years.
@ I agree with that, I’d like a micro adjustment on my Aqua Terra. I do have my eye on the new Speedmaster with the white dial.
@@JohnnyBeans-w9k Omega will never listen to their customers
All that guff to buy a watch brand that nobody cares about on your wrist….
Great analysis. Makes sense - more real watch buyers get ‘the call’ - do grey stock doesn’t rise, grey prices settle in for those too impatient to wait.
I see no such thing, all of the waitlists are extensive in the USA, I have been on one for 2 years and my AD still treats me like I'm a nobody
Stop paying the game, and it will stop to exist.
Because you don't exist.
Because you are a nobody in their eyes. Have you bought lots of pricy merchandise (and, particularly, jewelry) from them over time? If not, then you ARE a nobody to them. They aren't making bank from selling watches at retail to one time purchasers. They make bank from jewelry customers and (at least until fairly recently) at way over retail to grey market flippers. You don't exist to them. If you did, you'd have your watch.
You need to be on at least 5 AD waitlists. Being loyal to one store is insane.
@ That's not going to work. The only thing AD's pay attention to is how much you spend on high margin items in their store. You could be on a thousand waitlists but unless they see they have pulled high margin sales out of you, you aren't going to be considered for a high demand, low allocation watch. You might just get a Datejust or OP that nobody else wants, but that's about it.
WOS told me to drive to Manchester from London to express my interest in a GP Laureato they had in stock. No guarantees I could actually buy the watch. Maybe I needed a better spend history on other items they said. After that experience, I will NEVER EVER shop from WOS now they are begging for our custom.
That's insane lol. There's zero demand for GP
Taking it for granted that customers are willing to wait a very long time to buy a Rolex Submariner is, in my opinion, an enormous error that should not be underestimated. Furthermore, purchasing at a premium is an option that leads to other brands while saving hard earned money.
I am now a very happy owner of a Speedmaster Pro, will be looking to buy Seamaster 300 in the near future and still have some money left over.
Exactly...being ”rejected” with disdain is very off putting in the end. Personally I always thought my spine was more important than a steel 3 hands mass produced watch
Rolex operates as part of a charitable trust; given proper stewardship of the Wilsdorf foundation Rolex isn't required to sell a single watch to the masses
I bought a Batman for 16.5k and my name is still on waitlist for the past 4 years. They are never going to call me and I’m ok with that. I gotta support the grey market f the AD.
I tried on a mechanical Grand Seiko...I loved the look of it, but, on 'my' wrist it just appeared too bulky.
'Chisholm Hunter' UK steered me toward Quartz...Grand Seiko have a number of models. The attention to detail in the mechanical watches is carried forward into the Quartz range. I bought a black dial SBGX261G at the time £1900. I was immediately seduced by the high polished indices, the thinner casing and, best of all, the lugs on the watch body which now fall below the back plate resulting in a wrist hugging pleasure.
It's my go to watch simply because it is always 'ON' time and ready. Furthermore I love the weight and silky design of the steel bracelet.
GS are beginning to incorporate some of their wonderful dial designs into their Quartz Catalogue ....and yes ... I still take pleasure in my Mechanical, or automatic watches too, and I would love a GS Spring Drive too - what a staggering innovation that is.
very eloquently described there, i cannot think of a better example of how quartz watches can still be high horology, their zaratsu finishing is second to none, many timepieces of 10x its price do not compare
I had bad experiences with a AD in Western Australia. They gave you the impression you need them more than they need you. Judgmental and arrogant. It’s just a watch. Rolex is a good watch but not rare. They are many brands out there that will treat their customers with respect.
They should stop playing games, go to diamond district & there cases are full of watches in their coffins.
Get serial number off them & remove the dealer for selling it to the grey market.
I was ready to buy one a few months back and was put on a wait list. I then changed my mind and looking at omega speed/seamasters now
Good choice! go for the new speedy white dial, damn that’s sexy
@ Yeah the AD i go to doesn't have it. Won't hurt to go there in person to ask for it tho
Go for an aqua terra 😁
What’s stopping you from buying the omega? Still subconsciously waiting on the call?
@@mz8393 Bought a SBGC275G Grand Seiko xD
Waitlist is still long for many steel models and gray market prices are above retail for these watches
I've been arguing for a while now that luxury watch prices - both new, grey and pre-owned - have spiralled out of control. The problem is that younger buyers aren't growing up in an era where watches are a necessity to tell the time because your entire day can be managed through your smartphone. If younger buyers are even wearing watches at all, chances are that they're wearing an Apple watch or other smart watch. With the looming financial issues around the world and people struggling to put food on the table, or a roof over their head, a £10k watch purchase just isn't on their radar - and once those buyers (and let's be real, single-watch buyers are the bulk of the market) aren't buying any more, where does that leave the brands?
I see one of two things happening. One is that the luxury watch companies carry on as they are and in a decade or so, flagging sales will see them facing a crisis akin to the quartz crisis back in the 70s, where long-established brands simply go defunct. Two is that they start to produce "sister brands" marketed towards the lower end for first time buyers and/or single-watch buyers who just want that one "luxury" watch (think Rolex with Tudor, before Tudor prices also went stupid).
3 years and I’m still waiting for a call for a SS Submariner without other purchases. The AD offered if I spend $5K on a watch that they have in stock then the Sub will be available right away! I declined and no calls ever since.
I think this is the same scenario in most countries. My AD said that I should put the more classic models, Datejust, Oyster Perpetual, etc, on request/waitlist, I did, but they didn't even have those in stock to sell me, so how does that work? It's been 9 months, and still no call.
@@sparkle1272001this is so crazy. Years ago I bought a classic stainless one in Lucerne Bucherer & they even gave me a 5% discount. The gold watches you can get a bigger discount. No waitlist. I just walked in.
And I got Vat back since I am in US.
@sparkle1272001 I will never use a Rolex AD again. I went to 3 of them and was treated like I was a joke. I found a magnificent trustworthy dealer in my city who I'd absolutely recommend to get you exactly whatever you want. Lmk if you're interested and I will forward you her information and their website. You will not regret it at all.
Awful behaviour by ADs.
"Hey. Buy something you don't want, that is worth way less than you pay, so you may have the honour of buying the watch you want at the price stated."
Excellent commentary.
Technically there is no wait list, there is just an interested in this watch list which is meaningless.
I got "the call" back in 2023, I have the Rolex I want, so I'm done with the brand anyway.
I hope these "waitlist" games end, so people who never got the call also get what they want.
Rolex needs to stop playing with the customers. I understand why they do it, the tactic to keep demand high by creating an artificial shortage works, but it doesn't create new customers that are happy with the service they expect to get.
too right^
Why would Rolex care about the grey dealer market?
Rolex will still sell every sports/tool watch they can make
Grand Seiko 9f quartz is the real deal
They keep raising prices and treating customers with contempt.
Rolex has become an overhyped product in the last 10-15 years. Quite frankly, I enjoy my quartz Certina DS Podium "Preci-drive" , which technically keeps time within 10 seconds per year: why would I want a mechanical Rolex, which comes nowhere near such performance, and costs an arm and a leg?
Went to the AD the other day. They said demand is still 4 to 1 (4 people for every one Rolex) but they said I could put my name on the list for multiple models whereas a year ago I could only pick one. They were encouraging when I expressed interest in an Explorer 2 and totally discouraging when I expressed interest in a Sub (said I could be waiting a few years).
Bring back the times when you would expect a 20-30% discount at the AD. I never shop at ADs anymore because they all think people are paying full retail.
The competition is I can go to a dealer and I know damn well I'm getting a genuine piece without question. I also get the brand new Rolex buying experience and get on the radar of Rolex if in the future I want a limited edition.
Eh - anecdotally, i was just in a mall recently whuch has a number of jewelry stores, most of which sell mid-tier luxury watches as well as Rolexes.
There were plenty of Breitling, Tag Heuer, Tudor, Omega, Longines, and the like, but their Rolex displays (which are on rhe outside windows to entice mall-goers to come inside) were ridiculously empty.
I mean, where there's room to display say, 4 or 5 different watches on a display stand, they only have one - and it's often like a 28mm ladies' datejust.
So, at least where i live, either demand still far outstrips supply, and the ADs can still play their "Silly peasant, Rolexes are for Kings!" games, or Rolex is deliberately trying to go out of business by refusing to even *display* their wares!
The wait time is meant to hinder the grey market. Why sell a watch to someone intending to flip it?
When you are a company like with a profit margin of 60-90% they have a lot of wiggle room to drop prices and still remain profitable. Their best decision would be to end waitlists. The rule of supply and demand still rules. Grey market is still alive for now.
Name me one problem the west faces that doesn't blame China 😂
There enough unworn watches out there but the grey market dealers want to low ball you
Rolex are more common that Toyota Corolla. They've had 4 years to build a second factory if the scarcity is real, which I don't believe it is.
I don’t think we will get stability, prices will continue to fall and for many Rolex watches you will be able to get a discount at the AD for date just etc, just as before the pandemic
Rolex made their deathbed, now its time to lay in it. Also fyi for those who don't know Rolex in asia is rejecting warranty for pieces which have been opened or polished. So.. grey market has become even more unappealing.
I think you are wrong about quartz’s coming back. Quartz watches are so yesterday. For luxury watches SOLAR is a must for the price. I think it is just plain stupid to pay exorbitant prices for a quartz watch. If you fancy quartz, buy TIMEX.
but that was my point, they won’t be exorbitant prices, imagine a seamaster…exactly the same watch but with a quartz movement inside for £3k rather than £5.5k, just like they used to do, it opens up a whole new market for them
sooner than we think it goes back to 10 years ago...Rolex had all models in store and you can walk in and by any of them AND loose 25% if sell
Very pretty studio man
When they claim they lose money, it just mean that don't make as much as they hope to but still making a lot. Just like most of businesses mark up 80% then go On Sale 20%-40% off. It's a scam
Thanks for the info in this video. One aspect doesn’t make sense. If there’s a shortage of unworn watches on the grey market, this will surely lead to prices for them increasing again, perhaps not as madly as before but small incremental increases are more likely than being ‘locked in’ , don’t you think?
If the waitlists are ending, who’s going to be buying unworn pieces from grey market dealers? I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole. One day, I might grace an AD with my presence when they’ve got plenty of inventory and are offering discounts.
@@jim_herd may that day come soon. It would be nice if watches were attainable for regular humans again 😄
@@londoncallingwithsimon6817 If what I suspect is going to happen to the economy soon, there aren’t going to be any buyers at all. Can’t eat a yellow gold Rolex Daytona.
I’ll believe it when I can walk in to any Rolex AD and buy any model I want at MSRP. I very much doubt that will happen this year, or for several more.
Went to Dubai & Abu Dhabi... wanted to get a gold Daytona(oysterflex)... Visited 5 ADs... there was none. All ADs told be same thing: "Sorry we don't have one even for exhibition, they are almost impossible to get and demand is extremely high". On the other hand, all Omega boutiques had the full gold speedmasters and one offered me a 10% discount and guaranteed snoopy in the following months. So don't know what to say about this scarcity era ending... looks about the same as previous years.
yeah that’s perhaps a Dubai thing though, where wealth is far greater than here in the UK or the US. In the UK, a full gold daytona or two tone is becoming more obtainable though a spend history is still required. These are now below retail watches on secondary market
Oh please. SS Rolex is impossible to buy new. Wait lists for the GMT2 are YEARS long anywhere in the U.S. Many places have 5+ year waiting lists. Obviously "preferred" (big spending) customers do not wait that long, but the average Joe who buys a watch here and there from a Rolex dealer is waiting YEARS and it will never, ever get better.
I didn’t say they all were possible, though datejusts in 36mm, women’s sizes, air kings, explorers and Oyster Perpetuals are available within weeks.
Got a DJ 42 green dial jubilee having asked in December last to be added to the list. Picked up yesterday, all two tone and precious metal watches in the AD’s window were available for immediate sale; no so for steel sports models.
If Rolex wasn't run by dolts, they'd leave dealer pricing alone, triple their MSRP and allow dealers to price at their prerogative.
BTW, Tag Heuer is not "doing very well". They are swimming in a fetid sea of mediocrity and customer disregard.
There are thousands of less expensive vintage pieces all o er rhe world that still look good today. If one loves watches that much but on a limited budget, this could be a geat option. Manufacturers need to figure out a way to inegrate modern tech with old school mechanis. Otherswise it get redundant and boring. Just look at the Cubitus😅
couldn’t agree more!
There are other very nice models out there from Rado, Mido, lower-end Grand Seiko 9f models that are wonderful and that anyone should be proud to own. I love my Rolexes, but also have a Grand Seiko 9F, Rado Golden Horse and two Mido Ocean Star Tributes and am happy with them all of them.
I just got a sea dweller yesterday and it was my first visit ever to Rolex store in Toronto, they were kinda ok with all my requests except for the Daytona & the GMT they expressed difficulty. But even the sub they said they can get it to me soonish if o want.
Patek got me the annual calendar 5905 from the first visit also.
I guess we will go back to pre 2020 soon when Rolex was selling in Costco 😀
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it thanks for watching !
Thank goodness... NORMALITY!!
Good luck trying to get hold of list price Pepsi without a lengthy wait 😊
I am in waitlist since june 2024 for a very basic oyster perpetual 41mm in black,cost 6500 in rolex shop but outside cost 8900 at lest...i am tired
in my humble opinion only people that would buy a quartz luxury watch is strictly because they want the name
Swiss brands may reconsider pricing to regain sales in China and elsewhere - except for over 50K stuff at retail.
3:38 retail prices of most Rolex models are cheaper, aren’t they?
Don’t want Rolex and their waitlists. Like Grand Seiko.
ABSOfucingLUTELY!!!!
Spring Dr., Zara polish and assemble parts and only 40,000 a year versus these robot conveyor belt 1.3million!!! bullshit 😂. Google sbga053 or 051
🤮
I have been on a “list” and two AD’s for 8 months, nothing yet. The last AD I went into in Bristol had the watch I wanted on display, and a few others I would have considered, and wouldn’t sell me a single thing.
I'm so looking forward to a Patek or AP collab with Casio! 😂
The Pasio 😂
David SW disagrees. They are still charging scam rates.
Why one needs to be put into waiting list ever? My money my choice, do you want to sell me or not. You don’t, fine. I’ll go elsewhere.
well said, thought for many the hard to get nature is part of the allure
Was always gonna happen and the only ones that will hold there money will be the hard to get one (Daytona etc)
agreed!
@ it’s funny now that the shits hit the fan all the “watch experts” have disappeared again.
Bring back discounts at the dealer. I'd like a Rolex 1908, but the price is too much. That model should be no more than about £17,000 and that's pushing it. 🤡
I think the slowing demand will precipitate a more severe downward spiral...once any of us proles can walk in to the dealer and buy a Rolex, they won't be nearly as desirable to us proles. Kind of a catch-22.
Rolex is tacky.
I actually went into a Rolex store once, and they had no watches to purchase right then and there, but I could order one and would have to wait a few months.
Thanks Vinny. What you wearing today?
No problem, and on the wrist is a Swiss Army Victorinox INOX in titanium, known as the swiss g-shock having undergone 130 stress tests😉
Greed is Rolex’s downfall. Welcome to your depression.
I am done with anything Rolex. I am so sick and tired of them as well as their stayed dull designs. They have ruined the watch marketplace.
Doesn’t matter…too little too late!
When/if I can go into my Rolex local AD/boutique and get the watch I want that day, or maybe a week later, I will buy. Otherwise I have zero interest in getting involved in this whole waiting list/gray market game. I’ll just buy something else.
Overpriced is an understatement
Save your money and buy a China super clone. Nobody will know the difference.
The bubble has finally burst and I personally don’t have any sympathy. They have had a license to print money for far too long. I recently tried to exchange 2 tag heuer red bull and f1 watches both 2 years old in mint condition in exchange for a tag heuer used priced at £6500 only to be offered £550 for both pieces. I will no longer buy in this market and will limit my purchase to no more than £500 new. And wear the watch and enjoy my purchase rather than think your going to make any money back
Tag is doing great things right now so good choices mate, they’ll never let you down. ai have a series 3 vintage Tag in special edition red and i love it
If you need to tell time, get a $10 watch at target. We mostly don't need to because we have our phones. The higher priced watches are frequently just Veblen goods to flex status. People don't buy a Rolex watch, they buy a Rolex. Not much difference between a Nautilus and a tennis bracelet. Well, you can wear an AP to the office. One can't conspicuously consume affordable. Expensive is *the* virtue for that segment. Watches are jewelry today. Thirty years ago, people used watches as a tool. A quartz Omega made sense. Today Garman and Apple watch are that space. An Omega quartz doesn't make sense. Swatch don't need or watch a cheap Omega.