@Jake Sanders -- His understanding of human nature and of the consequences of his ideology escaped him. This is true for most leftists. They have no sense of human nature, and their utopian fantasies lead to atrocity and mass murder.
What I note is that Alinsky asked for a minute or two to explain his philosophy. Buckley offered him three. Then Alinsky droned on for five minutes with a rambling, boring, incoherent monologue.
that's Postmodernism and cultural marxism is all about: "The rich are to blame because: No one else speak or question me, bla bla bla so, in consequence, the rich is to blame"
but this fellow Alinsky here is clearly a cultural marxist, he is not, as you say, a revolutionary communist, he is a cultural marxist and hilary's ideological academic basis - cultural marxists wish to describe anything that isn't part of the racist anti white agenda as white supremacy, but then they are all lying psuedo academics who frequently come out with transparently untrue statements such as the one you just made, what a liar, liar's like you destroying the real left wing are the one's who forced america to vote trump - the best thing you could do for the left wing is go and join the conservatives - just to let you know, the hard left wing has spotted you, noticed the division racism and hatred you have been promoting with your lies and we are coming to get you - stop pretending - drop your fake ideology just long enough to spot your own fraud please, what a lie, "Cultural marxism is a fiction invented by reactionaries to provide a broad label for anything which is not white-supremacy.", you are a very very stupid person for attempting to make such a lie of a comment on an alinsky video for your lie is immediately exposed by the content - "Cultural marxism is a fiction" - no it isn't, there it is right infront of you, watch the video please try and have a little personal honesty, realise your mistake and review your hateful ideology, please, for the love of god, for the genuinely oppressed of the world, for the poor, for Syria, for Iraq, for the wartorn, for the Guantanamo prisoners - will you seriously tell me you believe what you are saying? - "Cultural marxism is a fiction invented by reactionaries to provide a broad label for anything which is not white-supremacy." - will you really repeat such an obvious and transparent falsehood? "Cultural marxism is a fiction invented by reactionaries to provide a broad label for anything which is not white-supremacy." - if you do wish to repeat that falsehood all i can say is - WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO - THAT IS CULTURAL FUCKING MARXISM - THE DEFINITION OF CULTURAL MARXISM PRACTICALLY - jesus christ it's like these people are stuck in some brainwashing program - COME BACK TO HUMANITY - GET REAL YOU RACIST FRAUD - IT'S NOT BIG AND ITS NOT CLEVER - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA another cunt, omg
Alinsky literally wrote the book on "community organizing". Think Ferguson, Baltimore, "hands up, don't shoot", Black Lives Matter and the recent melee at Trump's Chicago rally. None of these were spontaneous happenings - this is what his theory looks like in practice.
I didn't say he invented it. Obviously, disruptive protests are as old as society itself. Alinsky's book, Rules for Radicals, however, provides a step by step blueprint for affecting change through agitation, mobilization and provocation. As one of Alinsky's brightest pupils, Obama has successfully used these rules throughout his career in politics to advance his agenda.
The only one being reactionary in this dialogue is you. Am I a fascist? That's a hell of a leap, dude. You apparently don't know much about either Obama or Alinsky if you don't understand the connection between the two - especially to your second point. Alisnky's methodology was about changing the system from the inside. Revolution - or, as Obama put it, "transformation" - has a better chance of success when organized from the inside. That's why so many 60's radicals cleaned up their acts and started running for political office. That was a strategy right out of Alinsky's playbook. Maybe you should do a little homework on your subject before you start name calling.
Here, maybe this will help. It's a letter to the Boston Globe from Alinsky's son: archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2008/08/31/son_sees_fathers_handiwork_in_convention/
@XZDrake Yes, the French revolution was terrible. Certainly its starts had noble goals, but it continued getting co-opted by worse and worse ideologues culminating in Maximilien Robespierre, who chopped so many peoples' heads off that he ended up getting his own head chopped off, finally culminating in the crowning of a new Monarch, Napoleon, who despite his military acumen, ended up leading the entirety into a catastrophic military defeat that caused the country to descend into 100 years of revolution, counter-revolution, and military embarrassment.
I hear ya But COVID and the lessons learnt " This is the after math of revolution has many Marxists realizing what we had is much better Called the Edge !
It is absolutely amazing to watch a program like this one from 60 years ago. The appearance of the host, guest and even the audience is very proper, classy. The way Buckley speaks, his vocabulary. They both are calm and respectful of each other. I’m not saying Alinsky makes any sense because he does not. In recent weeks we’ve all seen the headlines confirming fluoride in fact has lowered the I.Q’s of American citizens by more than a few points. I firmly believe something far worse has been happening and it’s not just fluoride in the water. We have regressed. Such a shame. Society today, our culture is rotting from the inside out.
I wsh you were right, JustmeKasie, but I am afraid that this kind of program is exceedingly rare these days. The closest are on program in the alternative media - like Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman, or Democracy at Work with Richard D. Wolff, and some of the talk shows on RT.
@@mattm3729I was referring to speculation by many mental health professionals that Guevara, based on what he wrote in his diaries may well have had some serious narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies. A few things of note were him as a teenager raping the family's house keeper in front of his friends while his parents were gone. Another was his sadistic fascination with executions which he was known to summarily do quite often and then write about it in careful detail later. There are many realities about Earnesto Guevara that are quite shocking.
@@mattm3729 sorry matt I mistakenly replied to the wrong comment. However Alinsky was a lot like Guevara but much worse. He was absolutely a sociopath. Alinsky was a narcissistic genius. Social justice was merely a venue to to satiate his authoritarianism. Like all top tier leaders of socialist movements, they usually drape themselves in social justice and discourse with the angel but power is their motivation my friend and poor people and well meaning decent guys like you probably are...... are simply tools to be used and disposed of as the need arises.
@@tballstaedt7807 LMAO... Saul Alinsky frequently criticized hippies. He was also quite proud of the United States and quoted Jefferson and Paine. I'm not sure how you could say he's anywhere near Che Guevara.
I almost get chills from hearing Alinsky speak about power, progress, and especially when he says everything in history is a response to a threat. Sounds like what we can look forward to in the so called "Progressive" ideology prevailing in society today.
MidWestBoy hahaha jesus fuckin christ....you officially lose our right to comment on other people's IQ levels when you use bullshit "words" like *cepin'*. That's a level of ignorance not often seen in my parts....or....to translate that into your language: "Boy, you is a special kind of stupid right there"
Okay, seriously, what the hell happened to public discourse in this country? At about 3:30, Alinsky (in a very surly tone) asks Buckley to stand down for 1 or 2 minutes. Buckley says nothing for the next 2 minutes. Makes a quip that actually backs up Alinsky's point, then stays quiet about another two minutes. He actually doesn't reassert his point of view until the 7 minute mark. Seriously, this would never, ever, happen today.
+Matt Johnson It really pisses me off to no end. It goes both ways too: on TV debates today either people will ramble on endlessly until they are interrupted, or people interrupt or shout over when their opposition is saying something they disagree with. I mean FFS, of course you disagree! This is a debate! Interjecting with something that amounts to nothing more than "you're wrong!" is stupid, and you'll appear a lot better if you allow your opponent to finish before refuting his points. But then it gets back to the other problem - people will ramble endlessly until they are interrupted.
manufacturing consent as Chomsky would say became the thing. It’s not ideas anymore it’s strictly my propaganda vs your propaganda. Cable News is the perfect medium for that.
A great example of a prime Alinsky tactic subtly inserted into the conversation at the 13:05 mark. A deflecting wisecrack about his adversary- An attempt to mock something, often of a personal nature, that might rattle or distract his pursuer. Verbal octopus ink, but Buckley is no ordinary barracuda. Alinsky was pretty good on his feet, but Buckley was far better.
wayne russell Yea way over his head mired in the pretentiousness of William F Buckley. .. See: Chomsky, Buckley interview... he looks like a fool, it's pitiful.
As to the Chomsky debate.... Name, for me, just how Buckley was made the to look or performed in a "pitiful" manner.... Chomsky, the nazi sympathizer, was simply meeting all the points of fact with theoretical questions(key word there being THEORETICAL) or arguing semantics... Noam is a lightweight, at best...
Lol. You know that Chomsky us a Jew himself, and he was active in left wing zionists movements in his youth? Oh, and the only thing he did concerning holocaust denial, is allowing an actual denier to use one of his writings on free speech as an intro to a book. Not because he agrees with holocaust denial, but because he hates censorship.
Leftists are the only people talking about actual solutions to problems instead of ignoring them. The Right has the luxury of criticizing the Left without bringing anything new to the table.
I lived in Detroit in 1967 (time of the riots) this is when Alinsky implies that the Black community is not being listened to. I would point out that the city of Detroit govt. went totally Democrat in 1961. It would remain that way until today. This is in fact the most dramatic example of how Democrat policies and governance has totally failed all of it citizens. Black, White etc.
@@Zayden. true however there is a measurable difference in quality of life when comparing major democrat strong holds to more conservative or republican ones. Compare NYC under R vs D's. Or California under Reagan and now (major loss of economic power). It's like saying the US is corrupt however it sure beats living in a lot of other countries.
A lot of their ideas probably come from their cultural background. I imagine Alinsky came from a tough neighborhood growing up, and Buckley from a well to do upper middle class background. I could see their ideas about power coming from this. Alinsky had to fight for it, Buckley had it given to him because of connections from family and college.
@Mtpimenta it seems like you have confused my point about culture leading to different political worldviews with the wider discussion about power between Alinsky and Buckley.
Saul - Stealing is not against the law if I'm poor. Lying is not immoral if it helps me sway opinion. Killing is not immoral if I do it for the party. His book teaches how to vilify your opponent so people don't listen. He teaches how to use half-truths to sway the masses to achieve political gains. He teaches basic marxists tactics that is evident in today's Democratic party.
Alinsky's points are purely lucifarian. Do not apply reason, apply force and take what you want rather than earn it. " Do what thou wilt " Motto of the Church of Satan.
+XZDrake Quote from Saul D. Alinksy in his book ( Rules for Radicals ) Lest we forget at least an over the shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical from all legends, mythology, (and history and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins or which is which). The first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that at least one his own kingdom -- Lucifer. Apparently Saul Alinksy believed in the same fairytales. Condescension is the tape measure for the uneducated.
+XZDrake Really, then why didn't you derive meaning from my original statement ? People usually take meaning from the things they hold to be most true, and certainly do not give acknowledgement to fairy tails when wanting to be taken seriously. Besides, why does Alinsky get to derive meaning from writs and you withhold that privilege from me or anyone that doesn't fit your Cliché-ish narrative. Get some life experience, your lack of reading comprehension skills and 6th grade incivility give you away.
+XZDrake Being able to derive meaning (for) stories you do not believe to be true, but that does not mean you cannot derive meaning from stories you believe to be true. WTF???? Anyway......... Ok kid......first of all YOU are the one applying fiction where Saul or I did not.. Can one derive meaning from fiction, of coarse, but let's apply that meaning when fiction shows up. Let's not make fiction up where it does not belong and then rail at those who question why fiction is present. What is you obsession with reading books? Are you a librarian? Anyone with a third grade education can conclude that I am read up. Question: why is it that the people who can't take advise are always the ones wanting to give it?? Let's see if you can answer without insulting. If so, I will start civil discourse with you without rattling sabers. We should be able to discuss our opposing views without slander.
Alinksy to Buckley "Can you be silent for a minute . . .", ( meaning in reality ) can you stop shooting me down, because when I speak, the garbage I'm going to come out with won't stand up to the most basic scrutiny. And I can only impress these goggle-eyed 1st year politics students if I'm allowed to fill their heads with the unchallenged tripe I've been spewing for years.
Best explanation about this sorry SOB THIS GUY IS A BLITHERING IDIOT THAT ONLY HAS VIOLENCE AS A THOUGHT OF CHANGE OR A THREAT .......GEEZ TO ALINSKY EVERYTHING IS A THREAT
Alinsky was asked to describe his philosophy and Buckley accorded him the silence to do it. After 5mins he was unable to make anything clear. He meanders, inserts sub-clauses, and flows with random anecdotes. Now compare him to Ayn Rand who has thought deeply about philosophy and can present it when effectively asked the same question. _The following is a short description of Objectivism given by Ayn Rand in 1962:_ At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot. I did as follows: "Metaphysics: Objective Reality Epistemology: Reason Ethics: Self-interest Politics: Capitalism If you want this translated into simple language, it would read: 1. “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed” or “Wishing won’t make it so.” 2. “You can’t eat your cake and have it, too.” 3. “Man is an end in himself.” 4. “Give me liberty or give me death.” If you held these concepts with total consistency, as the base of your convictions, you would have a full philosophical system to guide the course of your life. But to hold them with total consistency-to understand, to define, to prove and to apply them-requires volumes of thought. Which is why philosophy cannot be discussed while standing on one foot-nor while standing on two feet on both sides of every fence. This last is the predominant philosophical position today, particularly in the field of politics. My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that: Reality exists as an objective absolute-facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears. Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival. Man-every man-is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life. The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church". Isn't that clear?
Greendragon420able Over 50% of the comments against Ayn Rand all quote that one. And there is a reality that you and they are always missing. The public housing one is new and false.
+Greendragon420able And for how many years was Rand compelled to pay into SS and Medicare? This is the nastiest attack you so-called progressives habitually use.
People don't come here to learn much I find. They come here to help reinforce their existing beliefs. Buckley is giving these people the chance to convince him, to make a superior argument that is cogent, thorough, rigorous, and that can pass the BS test, or not espouse utopia or ungrounded assertions...we need this type of intellectual discussion so badly in this country. This whole thread is full of people defending their identity, not so much as their beliefs, which removes them further from any discovery of truth.
This episode was aired on December 11, 1967. (Alinsky never appeared on "Firing Line" before or after this. I suspect that he realized that he had met his match.)
I always get a kick out of people who strongly believe one side won a debate. What they're actually saying is: "A's argument aligns with my beliefs, therefore, A won".
Alinsky wants people to fight or he thinks nothing will get done and Buckley wonders why people can't simply try to work together for common goals. I think I would much rather have Bill as a neighbor than Saul. If Bill was my neighbor we would have a path between our homes and if I lived next door to Saul we would have a high, secure fence between our homes with no gate. This sums up President Obama's doctrine perfectly and is why we have such terrible race relations today. Saul can't even articulate his position so one can understand it. It's almost like disagreement IS the goal. What a sad man he must have been.
OMGWUNSIU we are living through Alinskys dream now... no jobs, middle class gone, everyone on food stamps, race riots... his book dedication (if true) was apt...
His philosophy is simply, anarchy. For supposedly learned, intelligent people to have come under such complete influence by this man is mind boggling. He is completely transparent and illogical. Buckley destroys this man not only intellectually but in his clearly expounded social constructs dismantling his nonsense. My anger at Alinsky and the devastating damage his influence has achieved is equal to the anger I feel at those whom have actually aligned themselves to his poison.
Saul Alinsky: "Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history, the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer."
Thats is the very quote that everyone seems to use to make this guy look bad or appear as satanic. Give him a chance, I am. That quote is why I am here.
Alinsky sure shows a lot of body language here, nervous , sweating , licking his lips, clearing his throat. Typical Liar doesn't tell you who he really is. Alinsky was a complete fool.
I LOVE that Buckley, Jr. doesn't allow Alinsky to throw him off track at the end. I believe those founders he [Alinsky] speaks of would have called him "a classic snake oil salesman."
Where's the rest of this? Alinsky keeps making these absolute statements which can easily be disproved simply by anecdote and I was looking forward to seeing Buckley crush his philosophy.
This can't be the end of the conversation! It doesn't even record Alinsky's answer to the last question! Also, Alinsky makes perfect sense if you envision the competition taking place in a market. All competitors are threats, progress occurs by out-competing the other.
I was trying to recall where I had previously heard Alynski's accent, and now you have reminded me. It was in some old James Cagney movies where Cagney is playing a mobster.
Saul Alinsky wrote the playbook for the democrat party.. Alinsky grew up on the streets of Chicago during a time when gangsters strong armed honest,hard working businessman, for so called, "protection money". He wrote the book on using the poor, the disadvantaged,environmental issues and minorities as a way of influencing the government and the entire hippie culture to buy into the premise that they are the good guys, looking out for the little man, the poor and so on.. They advanced their agenda by encouraging people into becoming sympathetic to their movement.. They encouraged people to call on government to right these, "so called" wrongs committed by the status quo.. California was fertile ground for this movement.. They had all the environmental wacko's, the global warming wacko's, the tree huggers, the non GMO freaks, and so on.. When the Soviet Union collapsed, all those high up in the communist government were welcomed into the democrat party and the green movement they would hide behind.. Saul Alinsky's book, "RULES FOR RADICALS" had long sense been the lefts playbook, but now they had real money and influence provided by the collapsed Soviet Union.. Rules for Radicals is a perfect name as it describes the left to a T.. Hillery spent alot of time with Saul alinsky before he died.. She was fascinated, using MOB tactics in government in order to lie, shift blame, cover up, destroy evidence, and all the other underhanded methods she used to cover up for her spectacular failures as secretary of state.. obama came into the picture as a community agitator, trouble maker in Chicago, backed by corruption and Saudi Arabia, he got into the Senate.. After doing absolutely nothing for two months, he suddenly became a presidential candidate. He had no background, no real name, but many aliases, no birth certificate, but was born in Kenya, claimed to have attended occidental college and Harvard Law but no one ever saw him there or can verify he even attended either school.. Before either of these schools there are just a few that remember Barry from some community college way back.. One woman who claims to have been close friends with Barry explained that he had 3 or 4 boyfriends he dated off and on during that time.. She claims he was openly gay for the most part.. This is further validated when he first took office in 09, when his boyfriends started turning up dead.. he had his gestapo chase these men around town until they got to them and juiced them with the so called, "heart attack" death juice.. I remember the last one calling a show i was listening to, he said he was tired of running, tired of looking over his shoulder.. He called the show to say his goodbye and give as much info on obama as he could.. He was found dead in a hotel room in NYC the next am.. Look what obama did to Andrew Breitbart !! Obama not only had him killed but also had the pathologist that did Andrews autopsy murdered within 24 hours of doing Breitbart's autopsy. The left in America is pure evil, nothing they say is true.. We must stand up for our rights... When they come for your guns, "SHOOT THEM" NO NEED FOR QUESTIONING !!
Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 - June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer, and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing. He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals. In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots". His ideas were adapted in the 1960s by some US college students and other young counterculture-era organizers, who used them as part of their strategies for organizing on campus and beyond.[5] Time magazine once wrote that "American democracy is being altered by Alinsky's ideas," and conservative author William F. Buckley said he was "very close to being an organizational genius."[4]
Holy fuck, I love listening to Buckley in this. He has such an obvious disdain for Alinsky in the beginning, I can't stop laughing because Alinsky IS a/the joke. His voice in the opening lines drawls out like one long run-on sentence to me; he does NOT like breathing the same air or sharing the same space with that man.
+Kerry Burba The first give away..Saul Alinsky is the king of "tongue flicking" snakes. Watch for it in John Kerry, John Kirby, Trey Gowdey, Lionel Nation, etc..
I admire William F. Buckley. He’s as clever as he is funny, and that reveals his strong intellect. I wish there were more like him. I also admire Saul D. Alinsky. I can follow his arguments, and sympathize with his efforts. His philosophy has been the basis of many effective movements, which reveals the truth of his insight.
Saul Alinsky 's America would have to have the [ Pruning ] done and anything less than Gulags to keep the masses on its feet is a must I don't think anyone has the Gutz
Yul Hubbart I would say that Bush senior and Junior were not Conservatives. Most astute Conservatives regard Alinsky for the radical community organizer that he was. The real application of his life's work is more so attractive to modern-day Progressive Statist types, who have become the radicals in our govt.
Because he actually gave a shit about the poor and disenfranchised. He wanted equality for everyone and encouraged people who felt powerless to realize they were the power. Alinsky and Obama may both be democratic and want change for the people doesn't make them as like-minded as you perceived. So explain to me why motivating people to stand up for their rights makes someone the bad guy in this scenario? People have been fighting for their rights for centuries, encouraged by men and women who wanted better lives. Our forefathers did it to gain independence from England so we could enjoy our freedom now. People died and bled for it. And the strong of this nation always will...even for ungrateful people such as yourself.
Iinteresting to see this calm, quite tepid, demeanor from Ailinsky. He seems reticent to bring forth the entirety of his radicalism despite Buckleys concerted efforts to draw that very thing out into the open. Also. When buckley gave him three minutes of promised monologue, he lost track of his thoughts. Hardly a crime to get off course but., as unflinching and honest as he carried himself,, parsing his responses suggests he didn’t want to give the full bore utterly honest and straightforward exposition of his ideas that Buckley wanted to draw out on camera. At least he genuinely revealed more of his political ideology and philosophy than Hillary or Obama or Mitt Romney or John McCain ever did when they were seeking popular mandates.
+Charles Rinehart Your commentary reminds me of a rat or a mouse that doesn't understand what the eagle is doing. ... the world is dived into liberalism and conservatism. "Im a smart one so Im a conservative. Those silly liberals can't say nuttin' that makes sense to me." Right? You probably will never realize that your intellectual husband Rush Limbaugh is paying for your intellectual dresses and panties by telling others the same lies that he tell you. You will be very very lucky some day if you actually have to actually pay for the freedoms that you have the way that the non-golfers do. In the meantime it's only 15 days away from they day my taxes are do. Im not a corporation so what he says makes a lot of sense to me.
Don't take it as a criticism. It's not hard to see what activists for the poor are doing. It's hard to understand why. The writings about Jesus Christ and the actions of the Catholic Church in the Medellin Conference of 1968 might help your understanding of "Leftists." You can look up compassion in the dictionary too. Some people simply don't like exploitation of those people tied to their own ignorance ... Human Rights ... ideas that stemmed from the Age of Enlightenment.
Here's the sad thing: Two brilliant minds divergent because of two different philosophies and perspectives. Alinsky - results by "social" coercion, Buckley - results by discussion and compromise. We see that substantially prevalent still today. Maybe more-so than ever before.
I love the Alinsky quote that Buckley got from Harpers, at 11:06. "There is no evolution without revolution, and there are no revolutions without conflict and this is the line that separates liberals from radicals." Meaningful change has only happened in this country when there was conflict initiated by radicals. It could be that it was only the thoughts and vision of these individuals that was radical, but because they were will to create conflict, changed occurred. This is true of change initiated on the right and the left. Alinsky was a great thinker. A radical.
Alinsky made zero reference to right or wrong, only the promotion of warfare between warring political factions, which is not suitable for any civilization, but is suitable, and expected, for primitive tribes vying for power to rule and to inspire fear in other tribesmen. Creation of goods and services and bilateral trade; volitional cooperation to mutual benefit, was as beyond this parasite as the procedure called science is beyond the average theist. A rational man will never desire nor attempt to attain the unearned and undeserved. Alinsky was not a rational man. He was a thief, a coward and a parasite. Not to mention a professional liar. yours, Lucifer
LucisFerre1 This is one interview. You need to learn more about Alinsky's life work before you judge him. See the youtube link I provided in the reply above.
dubarnik Please, enlighten me on how much I know about Alinsky. Since you seem to know more that I do about that, or so you seem to presume. yours Lucifer
Look how strong he holds his right fist against himself when confronted for the first time with facts and real questions, an actual interview, like he is so frustrated or wants to hit Mr. Buckley. God, he's gonna break his fists.
Speaking as someone who has actually *read* Rules for Radicals (and his less well known book, Reveille for Radicals), I believe libertarians can learn a lot from Alinsky. He was a tactical genius whose organizing was nonviolent and apolitical, and he was explicitly not a Marxist, unless you prefer to go with the conservatives' hyperbolic definition of "Marxism" that covers just about anyone outside the Teapublican fold. Alinsky held the American founding fathers in high esteem, and while his approach was very down-to-earth and practical rather than philosophical, he shared a basic commitment to equal liberty.
Saul Alinsky reminds me of the character, Ellsworth Toohey, from the Ayn Rand novel, 'The Fountainhead'. Alinsky knew that he was exposed as a fraud in the first exchange with William Buckley. He is the ultimate pseudo-intellectual.
+Ken Power Funny, I came up with Adolf Hitler as the real life version of Toohey. Then again, Alinsky, Hitler, and Toohey are all pretensive collectivists, aren't they?
*"Here is the ideology of the new Democrats. Self interests."* - The idea that self interest is bad and "selflessness" is a virtue is defunct. It's defunct because goods and services are created and traded to mutual benefit, not static resources to be scavenged, hunted and gathered from the environment. What you're talking about is the evil quest of more and more political power by a process that harms others, and that, dear friend, is what the Dems are all about. They grow a crop of poor voting constituents like a farmer grows corn. yours, Lucifer
But there are also two elements common to all, and that is the accumulation of power. Then comes the quest for dominance. Once these goals are achieved, the idea of equality, the original motivation, then becomes unimportant to the people who were motivated by it.
machia0705 The non-stupid left already know that "equal means fair" is nonsense outside the arena of legal rights. They use it as an appealing talking point in their attempts to gain more political power to use against others. yours Lucifer
I don't get all these negative comments against Alinsky. He seems very reasonable here, respects the founding fathers and believes in democracy. Stop watching Fox News and open your ears to what he is saying.
If anyone wants to understand how the leftist media works; read Alinsky's book Rules For Radicals. I am a hardcore Republican and despise communism. Alinksy may be a snake commie, but his book makes valid points and an interesting perspective of how the left thinks and operates. Sometimes you have to be knowledgeable of the opponent to understand their tactics. What I liked from his book was the WW2 part among others. Winston Churchill despised communism. But when Nazi Germany invaded Russia (U.S.S.R.) he had to bite his lip and support the Russians from being annexed by Nazi Germany. Why? Because a successful annexation of Russia would threat Churchills British sovereignty. His perspective of self interest was really eye opening. Every country is only interested in their own and have the fiduciary duty to protect their own people from harm. Despite each countries differences of political party, when there is a common enemy, sometimes capitalist and communist countries have to temporarily reconcile to defeat the greater enemy. Everyone can hate Alinsky and they have the right to do so. But take his Rules for Radicals book for the good use it can have. He used it for the wrong reasons, his followers use his tactics for the wrong reasons. Thats what makes him evil. But some things can be taken to use it for the right reasons. The media is using it for the wrong reasons. They are all playing all of Alinksys 12 rules . For example, ridiculing Trump via media and talk shows. And constantly undermining him and ridiculing him. The weapon that the left has on Trump is the media, ridiculing, and incessant attacks.
John Lemieux This might be tough, since it's not out of a comic book. Here is an example using the phrase: "The President, who said he lacked the appropriate word to express his heartfelt sympathy about the death however made biblical allusion which prescribed three score and 10 years to express appreciation to God that the deceased attained the age at which he died..." (from an account of an African president expressing his condolences on the death of a tribal leader).
wraithby "Here is an example" Examples aren't the same as explanations, just because you can quote a president doesn't mean you're making sense. You can't "lack a word" because to lack something implies that something exists, and to lack a word is to say it isn't existing to be called upon. You can't miss what you never had.
John Lemieux You lack brains. I don't know if you ever had them, or you lost them by being a complete moron. Regardless, the word "lack" can be used in both cases.
"the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom - Lucifer." Saul Alinsky
I could only get 4 minutes into this and had to turn it off. Alinksy is a typically miserable, cranky, defensive, uninspiring, spiteful, petty little man.
If you have a solid conviction to one particular way, then you should be able to MORE concisely explain your goal or stance. HE could not. That shows his inability of being able to bring about any type of change.
feroxlara21 And yet the left has put more and more of their agenda in place over the past 50 years. Moreover, they've done so using Alinksy's rules for radicals. Ability to articulate and ability to practice are two entirely different skills. I'm an engineer. Some people are very good engineers but horrible at teaching engineering. Others are average engineers but have a great ability to communicate with non-technical people or to teach engineering.
I understand you completely. But understand this, that man and "The Left" HAVE put lots of legislation in place that is in THE NAME of helping people, but what has it really done? Are those things creating a measurable difference? and can the things they put in place be causally related? Are the trends of betterment NOT seen before their intervention? EX.1: Unemployment within minority youths dropped in the 10 years following the 1964 civil rights movement....But 20 years prior to the movement WAY MORE SIGNIFICANT increases in minority employment was seen. EX.2: In the years following emancipation increases and betterment of the black community, in education and living situations, was increasing at an exponential rate... AFTER THE CIVIL RIGHTS movement... those trends of betterment fell to minuscule percentages. EX.3: All the years before the "War on Poverty" began, there already was the SAME rate of decrease in poverty. ...Since it has merely gotten worse and at BEST stayed level. EX.3b: The "Welfare State", has nurtured a culture of dependency that is becoming more and more difficult to escape from. "What the welfare system and other kinds of governmental systems are doing is paying people to fail.In so far as they fail, they receive the money and so far as they succeed, even to a moderate extent, the money is taken away.This is even extended into the school systems where they will give money to schools with low test scores. In so far as the school improves its education the money is taken away, so you are subsidizing people to fail in their own private lives and become more dependent on the handouts." -Thomas Sowell Also, you didn't have to proclaim your occupation. It means nothing here. I am not like all these other jerks. I would have judged you from how you wrote to me and the content of your message. Many things that turned out terribly were in the best of intentions.
Simplifying is exactly what I DON'T do. That's why I can see the error in the ways of the Liberal Left. read my comment above yours. I responded to someone claiming that "the left" has done more to help over the last fifty years. I refute it.
Like all collectivists, Alinsky thinks purely in terms of aggregates, not individuals. These aggregates either dominate the others or are dominated - oppressor and oppressed. The 'poor' for him is a single homogeneous hive-like entity. 'Mobilizing', as the word suggests means turning them into an army. This kind of conceptual smudging is typical of the left. TheKordane refers to the 'package deal' fallacy above where Alinsky conflated conflict through force with conflict through reason.
Jeez. Imagine waking up from your bed on a wonderful warm spring morning. Hearing birds chirping in a large oak tree. You push the sheets back, go to the window sill to open the window... ...Only to you the situation is that you awaken, you push the power back, you hear power chirping outside, you walk over to the power which you open and all you see is power sitting on a power. ... ... Because everything in your world is just about power.
A proper interview. People are at least listening and the standard of conversation is so much higher than we see today
Abhay Singh Ben Shapiro, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin amongst others want to bring that level of civility back in political dicussions.
@Jake Sanders -- His understanding of human nature and of the consequences of his ideology escaped him. This is true for most leftists. They have no sense of human nature, and their utopian fantasies lead to atrocity and mass murder.
@@agoodpitch9 no one could ever be intimidated by Ben Shapiro
It was a proper interview. No Arsenio-style/Springer-style audience participation at all.
A comment about the state of political conversation from a ghost of four years ago. Brother just wait until you see 2020!!
I used to love this show! We don't have anything like this kind of dialogue today.
WFB is sorely missed. Brilliant man.
😂😂😂you think he smart mercy
What I note is that Alinsky asked for a minute or two to explain his philosophy. Buckley offered him three. Then Alinsky droned on for five minutes with a rambling, boring, incoherent monologue.
+stevenpb99 Right. That's exactly when I debated turning this off.
that's Postmodernism and cultural marxism is all about:
"The rich are to blame because:
No one else speak or question me, bla bla bla so, in consequence, the rich is to blame"
What was he saying? Please explain to us commoners, Mr. Well Read.
but this fellow Alinsky here is clearly a cultural marxist, he is not, as you say, a revolutionary communist, he is a cultural marxist and hilary's ideological academic basis - cultural marxists wish to describe anything that isn't part of the racist anti white agenda as white supremacy, but then they are all lying psuedo academics who frequently come out with transparently untrue statements such as the one you just made, what a liar, liar's like you destroying the real left wing are the one's who forced america to vote trump
- the best thing you could do for the left wing is go and join the conservatives
- just to let you know, the hard left wing has spotted you, noticed the division racism and hatred you have been promoting with your lies and we are coming to get you
- stop pretending
- drop your fake ideology just long enough to spot your own fraud please,
what a lie, "Cultural marxism is a fiction invented by reactionaries to provide a broad label for anything which is not white-supremacy.", you are a very very stupid person for attempting to make such a lie of a comment on an alinsky video for your lie is immediately exposed by the content - "Cultural marxism is a fiction" - no it isn't, there it is right infront of you, watch the video
please try and have a little personal honesty, realise your mistake and review your hateful ideology, please, for the love of god, for the genuinely oppressed of the world, for the poor, for Syria, for Iraq, for the wartorn, for the Guantanamo prisoners
- will you seriously tell me you believe what you are saying?
- "Cultural marxism is a fiction invented by reactionaries to provide a broad label for anything which is not white-supremacy."
- will you really repeat such an obvious and transparent falsehood?
"Cultural marxism is a fiction invented by reactionaries to provide a broad label for anything which is not white-supremacy."
- if you do wish to repeat that falsehood all i can say is
- WATCH THE FUCKING VIDEO
- THAT IS CULTURAL FUCKING MARXISM
- THE DEFINITION OF CULTURAL MARXISM PRACTICALLY
- jesus christ it's like these people are stuck in some brainwashing program - COME BACK TO HUMANITY
- GET REAL YOU RACIST FRAUD
- IT'S NOT BIG AND ITS NOT CLEVER - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA another cunt, omg
so your saying the rich dont run the country
they don't make em like Buckley anymore! He was the best.
Alinsky literally wrote the book on "community organizing". Think Ferguson, Baltimore, "hands up, don't shoot", Black Lives Matter and the recent melee at Trump's Chicago rally. None of these were spontaneous happenings - this is what his theory looks like in practice.
I didn't say he invented it. Obviously, disruptive protests are as old as society itself. Alinsky's book, Rules for Radicals, however, provides a step by step blueprint for affecting change through agitation, mobilization and provocation. As one of Alinsky's brightest pupils, Obama has successfully used these rules throughout his career in politics to advance his agenda.
The only one being reactionary in this dialogue is you. Am I a fascist? That's a hell of a leap, dude. You apparently don't know much about either Obama or Alinsky if you don't understand the connection between the two - especially to your second point. Alisnky's methodology was about changing the system from the inside. Revolution - or, as Obama put it, "transformation" - has a better chance of success when organized from the inside. That's why so many 60's radicals cleaned up their acts and started running for political office. That was a strategy right out of Alinsky's playbook. Maybe you should do a little homework on your subject before you start name calling.
Here, maybe this will help. It's a letter to the Boston Globe from Alinsky's son:
archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2008/08/31/son_sees_fathers_handiwork_in_convention/
@XZDrake Yes, the French revolution was terrible.
Certainly its starts had noble goals, but it continued getting co-opted by worse and worse ideologues culminating in Maximilien Robespierre, who chopped so many peoples' heads off that he ended up getting his own head chopped off, finally culminating in the crowning of a new Monarch, Napoleon, who despite his military acumen, ended up leading the entirety into a catastrophic military defeat that caused the country to descend into 100 years of revolution, counter-revolution, and military embarrassment.
I hear ya But COVID and the lessons learnt " This is the after math of revolution has many Marxists realizing what we had is much better Called the Edge !
It is absolutely amazing to watch a program like this one from 60 years ago. The appearance of the host, guest and even the audience is very proper, classy. The way Buckley speaks, his vocabulary. They both are calm and respectful of each other. I’m not saying Alinsky makes any sense because he does not. In recent weeks we’ve all seen the headlines confirming fluoride in fact has lowered the I.Q’s of American citizens by more than a few points. I firmly believe something far worse has been happening and it’s not just fluoride in the water. We have regressed. Such a shame. Society today, our culture is rotting from the inside out.
I love this. 'Desperately' Lol! Oh, I miss when PBS had shows like this, when TV anywhere had shows like this.
They still do. It's called Late Night or the Tonight Show.
I wsh you were right, JustmeKasie, but I am afraid that this kind of program is exceedingly rare these days. The closest are on program in the alternative media - like Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman, or Democracy at Work with Richard D. Wolff, and some of the talk shows on RT.
the facial reactions to his own quotes, 'did I really say that', sais everything about the man
I'm convinced that Alinsky was a sociopath. Calm, calculating, pragmatic, manipulating and ice cold. His personality alarms me
A sociopath because he tried to help poor and benighted people? You’re a clown.
@@mattm3729I was referring to speculation by many mental health professionals that Guevara, based on what he wrote in his diaries may well have had some serious narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies. A few things of note were him as a teenager raping the family's house keeper in front of his friends while his parents were gone. Another was his sadistic fascination with executions which he was known to summarily do quite often and then write about it in careful detail later. There are many realities about Earnesto Guevara that are quite shocking.
T Ballstaedt friend, what does that have to do with Alinksy?
@@mattm3729 sorry matt I mistakenly replied to the wrong comment. However Alinsky was a lot like Guevara but much worse. He was absolutely a sociopath. Alinsky was a narcissistic genius. Social justice was merely a venue to to satiate his authoritarianism. Like all top tier leaders of socialist movements, they usually drape themselves in social justice and discourse with the angel but power is their motivation my friend and poor people and well meaning decent guys like you probably are...... are simply tools to be used and disposed of as the need arises.
@@tballstaedt7807 LMAO... Saul Alinsky frequently criticized hippies. He was also quite proud of the United States and quoted Jefferson and Paine. I'm not sure how you could say he's anywhere near Che Guevara.
I almost get chills from hearing Alinsky speak about power, progress, and especially when he says everything in history is a response to a threat. Sounds like what we can look forward to in the so called "Progressive" ideology prevailing in society today.
Of course it does. He trained them
not sure which is more annoying: the way Alinsky rambles on aimlessly....or the lack of understanding of reality in the comments in this section.
MidWestBoy hahaha jesus fuckin christ....you officially lose our right to comment on other people's IQ levels when you use bullshit "words" like *cepin'*. That's a level of ignorance not often seen in my parts....or....to translate that into your language: "Boy, you is a special kind of stupid right there"
So True
Okay, seriously, what the hell happened to public discourse in this country?
At about 3:30, Alinsky (in a very surly tone) asks Buckley to stand down for 1 or 2 minutes. Buckley says nothing for the next 2 minutes. Makes a quip that actually backs up Alinsky's point, then stays quiet about another two minutes. He actually doesn't reassert his point of view until the 7 minute mark.
Seriously, this would never, ever, happen today.
+Matt Johnson It really pisses me off to no end. It goes both ways too: on TV debates today either people will ramble on endlessly until they are interrupted, or people interrupt or shout over when their opposition is saying something they disagree with.
I mean FFS, of course you disagree! This is a debate! Interjecting with something that amounts to nothing more than "you're wrong!" is stupid, and you'll appear a lot better if you allow your opponent to finish before refuting his points. But then it gets back to the other problem - people will ramble endlessly until they are interrupted.
Thats because everyone is so self centeted that they must not listen to the other person but only themselves
manufacturing consent as Chomsky would say became the thing. It’s not ideas anymore it’s strictly my propaganda vs your propaganda. Cable News is the perfect medium for that.
@@E2you glad you called him out, good point.
A great example of a prime Alinsky tactic subtly inserted into the conversation at the 13:05 mark. A deflecting wisecrack about his adversary- An attempt to mock something, often of a personal nature, that might rattle or distract his pursuer. Verbal octopus ink, but Buckley is no ordinary barracuda. Alinsky was pretty good on his feet, but Buckley was far better.
Alinsky is in WAY over his head with Buckley.
wayne russell Yea way over his head mired in the pretentiousness of William F Buckley. .. See: Chomsky, Buckley interview... he looks like a fool, it's pitiful.
Yes, Buckley can be very pretentious.... How would that ever, in any way, "mire" ones argument or thought process? Alinksy is simply idiotic....
As to the Chomsky debate.... Name, for me, just how Buckley was made the to look or performed in a "pitiful" manner.... Chomsky, the nazi sympathizer, was simply meeting all the points of fact with theoretical questions(key word there being THEORETICAL) or arguing semantics... Noam is a lightweight, at best...
wayne russell If you think Noam Chomsky is a nazi sympathizer, you have no business calling him lightweight...
Lol. You know that Chomsky us a Jew himself, and he was active in left wing zionists movements in his youth?
Oh, and the only thing he did concerning holocaust denial, is allowing an actual denier to use one of his writings on free speech as an intro to a book. Not because he agrees with holocaust denial, but because he hates censorship.
I remember these shows..Buckley is so intelligent and picked alinsky apart perfectly while alinsky sat there and squirmed like the worm he was
I wish talk shows today were more like this.
3 minutes or 30 years. He said nothing. Talks in circles and never concludes a single thought.
Bingp
Leftists are the only people talking about actual solutions to problems instead of ignoring them. The Right has the luxury of criticizing the Left without bringing anything new to the table.
@@nyaopei6773 Look at Milton Friedman's lectures and the free to choose series on here. He offers plenty of alternatives.
I lived in Detroit in 1967 (time of the riots) this is when Alinsky implies that the Black community is not being listened to. I would point out that the city of Detroit govt. went totally Democrat in 1961. It would remain that way until today. This is in fact the most dramatic example of how Democrat policies and governance has totally failed all of it citizens. Black, White etc.
Oh man that is so true
Both the democrats and the republicans are imperialist parties of the ultrawealthy US rulers.
@@Zayden. true however there is a measurable difference in quality of life when comparing major democrat strong holds to more conservative or republican ones. Compare NYC under R vs D's. Or California under Reagan and now (major loss of economic power).
It's like saying the US is corrupt however it sure beats living in a lot of other countries.
It's easy to just say "because the Democrats" instead of a real socioeconomic explanation for racial tensions and civil unrest
"All progress comes as a response to a threat." --Alinsky
"But that's not true." --Buckley
A lot of their ideas probably come from their cultural background. I imagine Alinsky came from a tough neighborhood growing up, and Buckley from a well to do upper middle class background. I could see their ideas about power coming from this. Alinsky had to fight for it, Buckley had it given to him because of connections from family and college.
@Mtpimenta inherited wealth has little to do with personal merit
@Mtpimenta in a roundabout way, it actually sounds like you agree with my thought on alinsky while claiming to disagree
@Mtpimenta it seems like you have confused my point about culture leading to different political worldviews with the wider discussion about power between Alinsky and Buckley.
Alinsky's statement is so obvious, it's almost a truism. No one gives away power. This is basic Hegel.
Saul -
Stealing is not against the law if I'm poor.
Lying is not immoral if it helps me sway opinion.
Killing is not immoral if I do it for the party.
His book teaches how to vilify your opponent so people don't listen. He teaches how to use half-truths to sway the masses to achieve political gains.
He teaches basic marxists tactics that is evident in today's Democratic party.
@sneksnekitsasnek Marxism is Marxism. 1 + 1 = 2 Capitalism builds prosperity, socialism builds welfare.
Long absent is this vein of debate in modern society. Thoughtful, articulate, verbally-contentious debate, without personal attack or slander.
Alinsky's points are purely lucifarian. Do not apply reason, apply force and take what you want rather than earn it.
" Do what thou wilt "
Motto of the Church of Satan.
That is why it is communism.
+don rutter
Communism is just a cloak, there's something far worse lurking underneath.
+XZDrake
Quote from Saul D. Alinksy in his book ( Rules for Radicals )
Lest we forget at least an over the shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical from all legends, mythology, (and history and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins or which is which). The first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that at least one his own kingdom -- Lucifer.
Apparently Saul Alinksy believed in the same fairytales.
Condescension is the tape measure for the uneducated.
+XZDrake
Really, then why didn't you derive meaning from my original statement ?
People usually take meaning from the things they hold to be most true, and certainly do not give acknowledgement to fairy tails when wanting to be taken seriously.
Besides, why does Alinsky get to derive meaning from writs and you withhold that privilege from me or anyone that doesn't fit your Cliché-ish narrative.
Get some life experience, your lack of reading comprehension skills and 6th grade incivility give you away.
+XZDrake
Being able to derive meaning (for) stories you do not believe to be true, but that does not mean you cannot derive meaning from stories you believe to be true.
WTF???? Anyway.........
Ok kid......first of all YOU are the one applying fiction where Saul or I did not..
Can one derive meaning from fiction, of coarse, but let's apply that meaning when fiction shows up. Let's not make fiction up where it does not belong and then rail at those who question why fiction is present.
What is you obsession with reading books? Are you a librarian?
Anyone with a third grade education can conclude that I am read up.
Question: why is it that the people who can't take advise are always the ones wanting to give it??
Let's see if you can answer without insulting. If so, I will start civil discourse with you without rattling sabers.
We should be able to discuss our opposing views without slander.
If I had half of a cent, for every time Alinksy licks his goddamn lips, I'd cure the national deficit, 20 times over. Holy shit.
Alinksy to Buckley "Can you be silent for a minute . . .", ( meaning in reality ) can you stop shooting me down, because when I speak, the garbage I'm going to come out with won't stand up to the most basic scrutiny. And I can only impress these goggle-eyed 1st year politics students if I'm allowed to fill their heads with the unchallenged tripe I've been spewing for years.
Best explanation about this sorry SOB THIS GUY IS A BLITHERING IDIOT THAT ONLY HAS VIOLENCE AS A THOUGHT OF CHANGE OR A THREAT .......GEEZ TO ALINSKY EVERYTHING IS A THREAT
And the left are still the same today. Scrutiny is mutiny.
I truly miss this type of discussion and debate.
PLEASE GET ALINSKY A GLASS OF WATER!
+Adam S He has a glass of water, didn't you notice? It's his own fault he continually uses it as an ashtray.
+Rob Craigen It sounds like he's been smoking more than cigarettes too. Tell me that's not cottonmouth.
+Jaesen Tamele (Jay) mind blown
Adam S
lol
+Adam S I almost spit mine out reading your comment! lmao
Buckley absolutely decimates Alinsky here.
Really miss this guy William F Buckley..
You'd be calling him a libtard RiNO if he was alive today.
Alinsky was asked to describe his philosophy and Buckley accorded him the silence to do it. After 5mins he was unable to make anything clear. He meanders, inserts sub-clauses, and flows with random anecdotes.
Now compare him to Ayn Rand who has thought deeply about philosophy and can present it when effectively asked the same question.
_The following is a short description of Objectivism given by Ayn Rand in 1962:_
At a sales conference at Random House, preceding the publication of Atlas Shrugged, one of the book salesmen asked me whether I could present the essence of my philosophy while standing on one foot. I did as follows:
"Metaphysics: Objective Reality
Epistemology: Reason
Ethics: Self-interest
Politics: Capitalism
If you want this translated into simple language, it would read: 1. “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed” or “Wishing won’t make it so.” 2. “You can’t eat your cake and have it, too.” 3. “Man is an end in himself.” 4. “Give me liberty or give me death.”
If you held these concepts with total consistency, as the base of your convictions, you would have a full philosophical system to guide the course of your life. But to hold them with total consistency-to understand, to define, to prove and to apply them-requires volumes of thought. Which is why philosophy cannot be discussed while standing on one foot-nor while standing on two feet on both sides of every fence. This last is the predominant philosophical position today, particularly in the field of politics.
My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:
Reality exists as an objective absolute-facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.
Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.
Man-every man-is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.
The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church".
Isn't that clear?
Ayn Rand died receiving a social security check, had Medicare and lived in public housing; that's irony!
Greendragon420able Over 50% of the comments against Ayn Rand all quote that one. And there is a reality that you and they are always missing. The public housing one is new and false.
+Avidcomp Except it's not. But you see, that's the thing: nothing will ever dissuade you from your ideas, it's like a religion to you.
Greendragon420able Yes it will (dissuade me)... facts that present a contradiction in my thinking. When you have some, elaborate.
+Greendragon420able And for how many years was Rand compelled to pay into SS and Medicare? This is the nastiest attack you so-called progressives habitually use.
God I miss that man. No one does this type of interviewing anymore. Agree or disagree with him, he always provided an interesting prospective.
The host is doing a very good job!
People don't come here to learn much I find. They come here to help reinforce their existing beliefs. Buckley is giving these people the chance to convince him, to make a superior argument that is cogent, thorough, rigorous, and that can pass the BS test, or not espouse utopia or ungrounded assertions...we need this type of intellectual discussion so badly in this country. This whole thread is full of people defending their identity, not so much as their beliefs, which removes them further from any discovery of truth.
Alinsky was a reptile. Those are tongue-flicks.
This episode was aired on December 11, 1967. (Alinsky never appeared on "Firing Line" before or after this. I suspect that he realized that he had met his match.)
W.F. Buckley absolutely destroyed Alinsky by using Alinsky's own words "Brilliant"!
I always get a kick out of people who strongly believe one side won a debate. What they're actually saying is: "A's argument aligns with my beliefs, therefore, A won".
Alinsky wants people to fight or he thinks nothing will get done and Buckley wonders why people can't simply try to work together for common goals. I think I would much rather have Bill as a neighbor than Saul. If Bill was my neighbor we would have a path between our homes and if I lived next door to Saul we would have a high, secure fence between our homes with no gate. This sums up President Obama's doctrine perfectly and is why we have such terrible race relations today. Saul can't even articulate his position so one can understand it. It's almost like disagreement IS the goal. What a sad man he must have been.
OMGWUNSIU we are living through Alinskys dream now... no jobs, middle class gone, everyone on food stamps, race riots... his book dedication (if true) was apt...
OMGWUNSIU Nah, if you had Saul as a neighbor he'd organize a mob to invade and trash your home.
I actually think you can't comprehend what he is saying
His philosophy is simply, anarchy. For supposedly learned, intelligent people to have come under such complete influence by this man is mind boggling. He is completely transparent and illogical. Buckley destroys this man not only intellectually but in his clearly expounded social constructs dismantling his nonsense. My anger at Alinsky and the devastating damage his influence has achieved is equal to the anger I feel at those whom have actually aligned themselves to his poison.
'Do what you want' - Crowley
Saul Alinsky: "Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history, the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom -- Lucifer."
+Grey Winters :)
that is pretty badass
Thats is the very quote that everyone seems to use to make this guy look bad or appear as satanic. Give him a chance, I am. That quote is why I am here.
That is why you are a cultural Marxist and a traitor to all things human.
Grey Winters you know so much thanks for letting people know what they are
Of course Alinsky had this philosophy, he learned his political tactics by hanging around and observing Al Capone.
Alinsky sure shows a lot of body language here, nervous , sweating , licking his lips, clearing his throat. Typical Liar doesn't tell you who he really is. Alinsky was a complete fool.
Not a fool but a man pushing a very specific agenda from the J.
That close shot makes Alinski look like an amphibian.
I LOVE that Buckley, Jr. doesn't allow Alinsky to throw him off track at the end. I believe those founders he [Alinsky] speaks of would have called him "a classic snake oil salesman."
Where's the rest of this? Alinsky keeps making these absolute statements which can easily be disproved simply by anecdote and I was looking forward to seeing Buckley crush his philosophy.
This can't be the end of the conversation! It doesn't even record Alinsky's answer to the last question!
Also, Alinsky makes perfect sense if you envision the competition taking place in a market. All competitors are threats, progress occurs by out-competing the other.
God Bless Wm F. Buckley.
Alinsky sounds like a Chicago mobster. Oh, that's right he interned with them.
He was too much of a coward to be a mobster. He was a "community organizer" instead.
I was trying to recall where I had previously heard Alynski's accent, and now you have reminded me. It was in some old James Cagney movies where Cagney is playing a mobster.
Obama has very similar speech and mannerisms as Alinsky
So does Hillary!
Saul Alinsky wrote the playbook for the democrat party.. Alinsky grew up on the streets of Chicago during a time when gangsters strong armed honest,hard working businessman, for so called, "protection money". He wrote the book on using the poor, the disadvantaged,environmental issues and minorities as a way of influencing the government and the entire hippie culture to buy into the premise that they are the good guys, looking out for the little man, the poor and so on.. They advanced their agenda by encouraging people into becoming sympathetic to their movement.. They encouraged people to call on government to right these, "so called" wrongs committed by the status quo.. California was fertile ground for this movement.. They had all the environmental wacko's, the global warming wacko's, the tree huggers, the non GMO freaks, and so on.. When the Soviet Union collapsed, all those high up in the communist government were welcomed into the democrat party and the green movement they would hide behind.. Saul Alinsky's book, "RULES FOR RADICALS" had long sense been the lefts playbook, but now they had real money and influence provided by the collapsed Soviet Union.. Rules for Radicals is a perfect name as it describes the left to a T.. Hillery spent alot of time with Saul alinsky before he died.. She was fascinated, using MOB tactics in government in order to lie, shift blame, cover up, destroy evidence, and all the other underhanded methods she used to cover up for her spectacular failures as secretary of state.. obama came into the picture as a community agitator, trouble maker in Chicago, backed by corruption and Saudi Arabia, he got into the Senate.. After doing absolutely nothing for two months, he suddenly became a presidential candidate. He had no background, no real name, but many aliases, no birth certificate, but was born in Kenya, claimed to have attended occidental college and Harvard Law but no one ever saw him there or can verify he even attended either school.. Before either of these schools there are just a few that remember Barry from some community college way back.. One woman who claims to have been close friends with Barry explained that he had 3 or 4 boyfriends he dated off and on during that time.. She claims he was openly gay for the most part.. This is further validated when he first took office in 09, when his boyfriends started turning up dead.. he had his gestapo chase these men around town until they got to them and juiced them with the so called, "heart attack" death juice.. I remember the last one calling a show i was listening to, he said he was tired of running, tired of looking over his shoulder.. He called the show to say his goodbye and give as much info on obama as he could.. He was found dead in a hotel room in NYC the next am.. Look what obama did to Andrew Breitbart !! Obama not only had him killed but also had the pathologist that did Andrews autopsy murdered within 24 hours of doing Breitbart's autopsy. The left in America is pure evil, nothing they say is true.. We must stand up for our rights... When they come for your guns, "SHOOT THEM" NO NEED FOR QUESTIONING !!
Saul David Alinsky (January 30, 1909 - June 12, 1972) was an American community organizer, and writer. He is generally considered to be the founder of modern community organizing. He is often noted for his book Rules for Radicals.
In the course of nearly four decades of political organizing, Alinsky received much criticism, but also gained praise from many public figures. His organizing skills were focused on improving the living conditions of poor communities across North America. In the 1950s, he began turning his attention to improving conditions in the African-American ghettos, beginning with Chicago's and later traveling to other ghettos in California, Michigan, New York City, and a dozen other "trouble spots".
His ideas were adapted in the 1960s by some US college students and other young counterculture-era organizers, who used them as part of their strategies for organizing on campus and beyond.[5] Time magazine once wrote that "American democracy is being altered by Alinsky's ideas," and conservative author William F. Buckley said he was "very close to being an organizational genius."[4]
Holy fuck, I love listening to Buckley in this. He has such an obvious disdain for Alinsky in the beginning, I can't stop laughing because Alinsky IS a/the joke. His voice in the opening lines drawls out like one long run-on sentence to me; he does NOT like breathing the same air or sharing the same space with that man.
So glad the Tea Party could use Alinsky’s teachings to such great effect!
Saul Alinsky was a big bag of hot air.
he was a maniac, its sociopath 101 is all this is.
ESSER And a Luciferian apparently.
+Kerry Burba The first give away..Saul Alinsky is the king of "tongue flicking" snakes. Watch for it in John Kerry, John Kirby, Trey Gowdey, Lionel Nation, etc..
How do they have such success start to push back and counter this democrat ideology
So the threat is charity, and the response is to force charity.
Thanks for uploading. Compelling & revealing.
I can watch William F. Buckley for hours. He was a great debater.
Evasiveness emanates from Alinsky in this interview, together with a love of power, violence and destruction.
#AllLivesMatter
I admire William F. Buckley. He’s as clever as he is funny, and that reveals his strong intellect. I wish there were more like him.
I also admire Saul D. Alinsky. I can follow his arguments, and sympathize with his efforts. His philosophy has been the basis of many effective movements, which reveals the truth of his insight.
Saul Alinsky 's America would have to have the [ Pruning ] done and anything less than Gulags to keep the masses on its feet is a must I don't think anyone has the Gutz
As Alinski looks up at America today, he's smiling.
Not sure how one should take this statement. You mean, looks up from Hell?
Watching Alinskys eyes tells me he doesn't believe much of what he says
Alinksy sounds just like President Obongo - without the "Ummms" & "Uhhhs". I wonder why that is?
Yul Hubbart Aaah, You may speak the truth, but what will be the end result.....?
Yul Hubbart Influenced can mean something much different from say "inspired", wouldn't you agree?
Yul Hubbart I would say that Bush senior and Junior were not Conservatives. Most astute Conservatives regard Alinsky for the radical community organizer that he was. The real application of his life's work is more so attractive to modern-day Progressive Statist types, who have become the radicals in our govt.
Leftist just love ummms, and uhh because it buys time to find the next lie.
Because he actually gave a shit about the poor and disenfranchised. He wanted equality for everyone and encouraged people who felt powerless to realize they were the power. Alinsky and Obama may both be democratic and want change for the people doesn't make them as like-minded as you perceived. So explain to me why motivating people to stand up for their rights makes someone the bad guy in this scenario? People have been fighting for their rights for centuries, encouraged by men and women who wanted better lives. Our forefathers did it to gain independence from England so we could enjoy our freedom now. People died and bled for it. And the strong of this nation always will...even for ungrateful people such as yourself.
Alinsky-a man in a comfortable chair thrilled by the thought of violence. A common type of 20C intellectual.
Am glad to see Buckley take on this sort of man. He needs an expert to see through his bull..............
What was he saying? He loves to steal people's time rambling on about nothing.
Arrrrgh!!! WHY DID THIS END BEFORE BUCKLEY CRUSHES HIM???
Iinteresting to see this calm, quite tepid, demeanor from Ailinsky. He seems reticent to bring forth the entirety of his radicalism despite Buckleys concerted efforts to draw that very thing out into the open.
Also. When buckley gave him three minutes of promised monologue, he lost track of his thoughts. Hardly a crime to get off course but., as unflinching and honest as he carried himself,, parsing his responses suggests he didn’t want to give the full bore utterly honest and straightforward exposition of his ideas that Buckley wanted to draw out on camera.
At least he genuinely revealed more of his political ideology and philosophy than Hillary or Obama or Mitt Romney or John McCain ever did when they were seeking popular mandates.
You know the expression that the world would be a better place without someone?
Alinsky talks a lot, but makes no sense whatsoever. What is the proper terminology to define his ideology? Anarchist?
+Charles Rinehart Your commentary reminds me of a rat or a mouse that doesn't understand what the eagle is doing.
... the world is dived into liberalism and conservatism. "Im a smart one so Im a conservative. Those silly liberals can't say nuttin' that makes sense to me." Right?
You probably will never realize that your intellectual husband Rush Limbaugh is paying for your intellectual dresses and panties by telling others the same lies that he tell you.
You will be very very lucky some day if you actually have to actually pay for the freedoms that you have the way that the non-golfers do. In the meantime it's only 15 days away from they day my taxes are do.
Im not a corporation so what he says makes a lot of sense to me.
Don't take it as a criticism. It's not hard to see what activists for the poor are doing. It's hard to understand why. The writings about Jesus Christ and the actions of the Catholic Church in the Medellin Conference of 1968 might help your understanding of "Leftists." You can look up compassion in the dictionary too. Some people simply don't like exploitation of those people tied to their own ignorance ... Human Rights ... ideas that stemmed from the Age of Enlightenment.
Agent of chaos
Somebody should make an HBO movie about this. Dustin Hoffman can play Alinsky, and Anthony Hopkins can play WFB.
Here's the sad thing: Two brilliant minds divergent because of two different philosophies and perspectives. Alinsky - results by "social" coercion, Buckley - results by discussion and compromise.
We see that substantially prevalent still today. Maybe more-so than ever before.
No, the two are antithetical.
regardless of political or social philosophy I find it hard to trust any public figure who cannot succinctly put forth their ideas and ideals.
I love the Alinsky quote that Buckley got from Harpers, at 11:06. "There is no evolution without revolution, and there are no revolutions without conflict and this is the line that separates liberals from radicals." Meaningful change has only happened in this country when there was conflict initiated by radicals. It could be that it was only the thoughts and vision of these individuals that was radical, but because they were will to create conflict, changed occurred. This is true of change initiated on the right and the left.
Alinsky was a great thinker. A radical.
Alinsky made zero reference to right or wrong, only the promotion of warfare between warring political factions, which is not suitable for any civilization, but is suitable, and expected, for primitive tribes vying for power to rule and to inspire fear in other tribesmen. Creation of goods and services and bilateral trade; volitional cooperation to mutual benefit, was as beyond this parasite as the procedure called science is beyond the average theist. A rational man will never desire nor attempt to attain the unearned and undeserved. Alinsky was not a rational man. He was a thief, a coward and a parasite. Not to mention a professional liar.
yours,
Lucifer
LucisFerre1 This is one interview. You need to learn more about Alinsky's life work before you judge him. See the youtube link I provided in the reply above.
dubarnik Please, enlighten me on how much I know about Alinsky. Since you seem to know more that I do about that, or so you seem to presume.
yours
Lucifer
Is that meant to be an insult? It's not.
Look how strong he holds his right fist against himself when confronted for the first time with facts and real questions, an actual interview, like he is so frustrated or wants to hit Mr. Buckley. God, he's gonna break his fists.
One of hillary clinton's mentors! She wrote her thesis on Rules for Radicals, by saul alinsky!
Not having a partner, that's the threat. And the best way to solve that is traditional marriage.
He is so freaky with that tongue darting out of the side of his mouth. It's very distracting.
Speaking as someone who has actually *read* Rules for Radicals (and his less well known book, Reveille for Radicals), I believe libertarians can learn a lot from Alinsky. He was a tactical genius whose organizing was nonviolent and apolitical, and he was explicitly not a Marxist, unless you prefer to go with the conservatives' hyperbolic definition of "Marxism" that covers just about anyone outside the Teapublican fold. Alinsky held the American founding fathers in high esteem, and while his approach was very down-to-earth and practical rather than philosophical, he shared a basic commitment to equal liberty.
Mr. Alinsky with his COPD rasp, was, plain and simple, a community aggitator.
this guy makes more disgusting mouth noise than the Joker
Saul Alinsky reminds me of the character, Ellsworth Toohey, from the Ayn Rand novel, 'The Fountainhead'. Alinsky knew that he was exposed as a fraud in the first exchange with William Buckley. He is the ultimate pseudo-intellectual.
+Ken Power Funny, I came up with Adolf Hitler as the real life version of Toohey. Then again, Alinsky, Hitler, and Toohey are all pretensive collectivists, aren't they?
My goodness. Alinsky starts out with Alinsky rule number one, one, one, one...the ad hominem attach!!!
I would like to know when this interview took place . Alinsky died aged 63 - 1972 = heart attack .
He wants conflict for the sake of conflict, bottom line
Here is the ideology of the new Democrats. Self interests.
*"Here is the ideology of the new Democrats. Self interests."*
-
The idea that self interest is bad and "selflessness" is a virtue is defunct. It's defunct because goods and services are created and traded to mutual benefit, not static resources to be scavenged, hunted and gathered from the environment.
What you're talking about is the evil quest of more and more political power by a process that harms others, and that, dear friend, is what the Dems are all about. They grow a crop of poor voting constituents like a farmer grows corn.
yours,
Lucifer
But there are also two elements common to all, and that is the accumulation of power. Then comes the quest for dominance. Once these goals are achieved, the idea of equality, the original motivation, then becomes unimportant to the people who were motivated by it.
machia0705 The non-stupid left already know that "equal means fair" is nonsense outside the arena of legal rights. They use it as an appealing talking point in their attempts to gain more political power to use against others.
yours
Lucifer
I don't get all these negative comments against Alinsky. He seems very reasonable here, respects the founding fathers and believes in democracy. Stop watching Fox News and open your ears to what he is saying.
Heard of him before but never seen him. He seems like a really miserable guy.
no part 2?? things just started to warm up.. tell me there's more..
His speech patterns are reminiscent of L. Ron Hubbard. Both comical but dangerous,
If anyone wants to understand how the leftist media works; read Alinsky's book Rules For Radicals. I am a hardcore Republican and despise communism. Alinksy may be a snake commie, but his book makes valid points and an interesting perspective of how the left thinks and operates. Sometimes you have to be knowledgeable of the opponent to understand their tactics.
What I liked from his book was the WW2 part among others. Winston Churchill despised communism. But when Nazi Germany invaded Russia (U.S.S.R.) he had to bite his lip and support the Russians from being annexed by Nazi Germany. Why? Because a successful annexation of Russia would threat Churchills British sovereignty.
His perspective of self interest was really eye opening. Every country is only interested in their own and have the fiduciary duty to protect their own people from harm. Despite each countries differences of political party, when there is a common enemy, sometimes capitalist and communist countries have to temporarily reconcile to defeat the greater enemy.
Everyone can hate Alinsky and they have the right to do so. But take his Rules for Radicals book for the good use it can have. He used it for the wrong reasons, his followers use his tactics for the wrong reasons. Thats what makes him evil. But some things can be taken to use it for the right reasons.
The media is using it for the wrong reasons. They are all playing all of Alinksys 12 rules . For example, ridiculing Trump via media and talk shows. And constantly undermining him and ridiculing him. The weapon that the left has on Trump is the media, ridiculing, and incessant attacks.
I'm still awake at the six minute mark !! (I've been working out...)
Buckley was a douchebag hiding behind a massive vocabulary.
But probably lacked a word to adequately describe your particular brand of lowlife.
wraithby How can you "lack a word?
John Lemieux
This might be tough, since it's not out of a comic book. Here is an example using the phrase: "The President, who said he lacked the appropriate word to express his heartfelt sympathy about the death however made biblical allusion which prescribed three score and 10 years to express appreciation to God that the deceased attained the age at which he died..." (from an account of an African president expressing his condolences on the death of a tribal leader).
wraithby "Here is an example"
Examples aren't the same as explanations, just because you can quote a president doesn't mean you're making sense.
You can't "lack a word" because to lack something implies that something exists, and to lack a word is to say it isn't existing to be called upon.
You can't miss what you never had.
John Lemieux You lack brains. I don't know if you ever had them, or you lost them by being a complete moron. Regardless, the word "lack" can be used in both cases.
The humorlessness of Alinsky and ilk is what is most disturbing. Well, folks, we're now in the dystopia of his design.
He was absolutely brilliant
A quick summary of the video:
*BUCKLEY:* "What are you protesting against?"
*ALINSKY:* "Whatta you got?"
"the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom - Lucifer." Saul Alinsky
I could only get 4 minutes into this and had to turn it off. Alinksy is a typically miserable, cranky, defensive, uninspiring, spiteful, petty little man.
If you have a solid conviction to one particular way, then you should be able to MORE concisely explain your goal or stance. HE could not. That shows his inability of being able to bring about any type of change.
feroxlara21 And yet the left has put more and more of their agenda in place over the past 50 years. Moreover, they've done so using Alinksy's rules for radicals. Ability to articulate and ability to practice are two entirely different skills. I'm an engineer. Some people are very good engineers but horrible at teaching engineering. Others are average engineers but have a great ability to communicate with non-technical people or to teach engineering.
I understand you completely.
But understand this, that man and "The Left" HAVE put lots of legislation in place that is in THE NAME of helping people, but what has it really done?
Are those things creating a measurable difference? and can the things they put in place be causally related?
Are the trends of betterment NOT seen before their intervention?
EX.1:
Unemployment within minority youths dropped in the 10 years following the 1964 civil rights movement....But 20 years prior to the movement WAY MORE SIGNIFICANT increases in minority employment was seen.
EX.2:
In the years following emancipation increases and betterment of the black community, in education and living situations, was increasing at an exponential rate... AFTER THE CIVIL RIGHTS movement... those trends of betterment fell to minuscule percentages.
EX.3:
All the years before the "War on Poverty" began, there already was the SAME rate of decrease in poverty. ...Since it has merely gotten worse and at BEST stayed level.
EX.3b:
The "Welfare State", has nurtured a culture of dependency that is becoming more and more difficult to escape from.
"What the welfare system and other kinds of governmental systems are doing is paying people to fail.In so far as they fail, they receive the money and so far as they succeed, even to a moderate extent, the money is taken away.This is even extended into the school systems where they will give money to schools with low test scores. In so far as the school improves its education the money is taken away, so you are subsidizing people to fail in their own private lives and become more dependent on the handouts." -Thomas Sowell
Also, you didn't have to proclaim your occupation. It means nothing here. I am not like all these other jerks. I would have judged you from how you wrote to me and the content of your message.
Many things that turned out terribly were in the best of intentions.
feroxlara21 Oversimplification of our problems removes humanity from society.
Simplifying is exactly what I DON'T do. That's why I can see the error in the ways of the Liberal Left.
read my comment above yours. I responded to someone claiming that "the left" has done more to help over the last fifty years. I refute it.
feroxlara21
hmmm, just like his disciple obumbler
Like all collectivists, Alinsky thinks purely in terms of aggregates, not individuals. These aggregates either dominate the others or are dominated - oppressor and oppressed. The 'poor' for him is a single homogeneous hive-like entity. 'Mobilizing', as the word suggests means turning them into an army.
This kind of conceptual smudging is typical of the left. TheKordane refers to the 'package deal' fallacy above where Alinsky conflated conflict through force with conflict through reason.
Jeez. Imagine waking up from your bed on a wonderful warm spring morning. Hearing birds chirping in a large oak tree. You push the sheets back, go to the window sill to open the window...
...Only to you the situation is that you awaken, you push the power back, you hear power chirping outside, you walk over to the power which you open and all you see is power sitting on a power. ... ... Because everything in your world is just about power.