Check out this follow up video from The VSO Gun Channel. He knows a lot more about chemistry and gives an easier solution. th-cam.com/video/MaOBNJvRx0o/w-d-xo.html
This seems like the sort of video I will soon delete in shame. Also: I bought a Creality Ender 3 S1. We can talk about it on the stream tomorrow night, but it will be a few weeks before I get a video put together. It's still in the box because I've been staring at lead all week.
No worries, interesting stuff. Need to see if you can cast a bullet from what you collect :). I’ve got a supressor on order so this will be in the back of my mind for future consideration. Maybe some stronger acids could move the process along faster?
I vote for leaving the video up, I don't see any problem with it. Also, I may be wrong, but I think the white precipitate may have been lead that fell out of solution because you're solution reached its saturation point. Keep up the good work Sir.
FYI kinda related to this but more relevant to your annealing, "reese on the range" is a metallurgist on yt and he has a very good explanation of the science of annealing on his channel. Thought you may be able to consult him on other metallurgy questions too and it looks like he watches your channel as well. Just thought I'd let you know Sir.
Because of you I bought an Ender 5 Pro and the Lee APP. I got a couple 3D projects in mind. And I just can’t get over the speed of the Lee once you got it set up. Quick question - what size tubes do you buy that fits the collator?
Hey Johnny, if you want to speed up the reaction you can use zinc powder instead of a large piece of zinc. The increased surface area of the powder will help a lot.
Nilered did that in the 2nd video, so I considered it. I was holding out hope that maybe we could grow some cool looking crystals, and we did a little bit. Like you say, I'm sure all that surface area would help a lot.
Fellow student of TH-cam Chemistry University here, I think what happened is due to what's called the "Reactivity Series of Metals", basically some metals are more reactive, and others less so. You can use this to swap one metal for another in a solution, and since Iron (in the brush handle & bristles) is more reactive than Lead, it was not only dissolving due to the solution, but whatever lead had dissolved into the solution was immedately being replaced by iron from the handle. Zinc is more reactive than iron, so when you put the zinc coil in that nasty solution, both the iron and the lead were precipitating out which is why you got a different looking precpitate. This is used in Gold refnining because Gold is the least reactive metal. A process called "inquartation" can be used whereby carat gold (i.e., gold that is not pure) is alloyed with sterling silver to make it easier to dissolve out the silver and base metals. The pure metallic gold is left behind, and then the solution that is full of silver, copper, etc can be refined using the reactivity series to remove just the silver by putting in pieces of copper.
Alright he summed up my comment way better than I wrote it haha. Any experience with iron sulfate to precipitate gold in solution? I think I accidentally screwed up with adding more hydrochloric acid and peroxide over and over and eventually got the gold in solution (over a week or 2, no heat). Can’t find any sodium metabisulfate locally but did locate copperas (iron sulfate).
This was cool. I might duplicate from the perspective of a classically trained chemist. Also, that copper solution at the end is either copper acetate or copper hydroxide. Maybe both. I’m guessing acetate because of the excess vinegar in the original peracetic acid mix. To test this take a small sample (maybe 100ml or so) and get some clear, strong liquor like everclear or 151 and dilute it. If precipitates you have copper acetate. If it doesn’t then you have the hydroxide. This will determine how you go about cleaning up the copper
That would be really awesome. Correct it, refine it, explain it, expand it, refute it...I'd be happy to hear anything from someone that understands what's going on.
Easier: freeze distill metal acetates, the 90% of the acetates will form a crust on the surface and also suspend as particles, I just did this for copper acetate. Then filter for pure metal acetates.
@@notamouse5630 I hate freeze distillation, makes a mess. I’m a classical wet chemist- contain everything in a liquid system and kick species out chemically.
@@VSO_Gun_Channel Depends upon whether the container is glass, Also there is the option of freeze distillation, scraping the crust, crushing and centrifuging the slush, and taking the concentrate for round 2 of freeze distillation. All without glassware, which was my reason. I am a classic kitchen chemist reusing polymer ice cream cointainers. This freeze distillation makes both a crystalline product and a concentrate.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench Aluminum powder is relatively cheap (Alpha Chemical sells 2lb for $26) and IIRC is a stronger reducing agent than Zinc, plus the powder will react faster. Would recommend trying it.
I'm not a gun guy at all. I don't know how common any of this is, but I think it's really cool that you've potentially made this process safer. Bioavailable lead being dumped into the environment is serious & if more people start doing this that's awesome. Also really fun chemistry.
1. REGULAR MAINTENANCE is key to suppressors especially .22 rimfire! 2. Clean a take down suppressor (I don't like sealed units) as often as you clean the weapon (doesn't allow build up of lead or carbon). 3. Use brass brush for steel parts and nylon for aluminum. 4. Apply a light coat of CLP, white Lithium grease or petroleum jelly to internal parts (makes cleaning much easier). 5. Don't be a pig with your equipment, keep things maintained and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think that line might be the separation line of zinc acetate and lead acetate since they have different weights. Lead has more molecular weight so it would gravitate below the zinc acetate. That could explain why the reaction slowed way down once that line went below the zinc - it's harder for the lead acetate to get close to zinc metal since it is surrounded by zinc acetate. Suggesting a stir bar to keep the solution made of the acetates mixed or keep the zinc metal close to the bottom.
Alright the blue color of the last dip is copper. Once the copper goes in solution it will cement out on iron (why it plated on the can). The iron replaced it the exact same way the zinc does the lead. So to get it out of solution you can literally throw any scrap iron in and it’ll drop out. I’d avoid stainless as it will add other stuff like chromium, vanadium, etc. which may be more toxic than the copper. Plain old low grade steel is your best bet. You can also use electrolysis (which would put you on the road to plating lead projectiles for instance..). I know sodium metabisulfate and iron sulfate are 2 used to drop gold and other precious metals, not sure if they’d do copper but might be worth looking into. Oh and diluting the solution with water will make the lead and silver oxide drop out of solution.
In Texas, my town has hazmat collection days from time to time. I can drive up to a parking lot and the state will dispose of hazardous chemicals for me (residential quantities only). I have never tried to do lead acetate, but it might be worth a few calls to Tennessee officials.
@@homersaypian3798 almost every large-ish municipality will have a residential hazardous waste disposal site. I would try looking for your town + residential hazardous waste disposal. Sometimes it's a city-run location and sometime the local fire department will handle it.
As a chemist I love that experiment! That's why we do research so it can be tested for actual usecases! Nice job! (And don't worry it failed. This is what engineers do. They test what should work as a usecase and then often spend years ironing the kinks out)
I had no idea about any of this kind of thing. Seems if it weren't so hard to send suppressors everywhere you could have a reasonably priced cleaning service just so you didn't have to deal with that kind of crap.
If you have a suppressor with some build up in it just get some Boretech C4. Just plug the bore with a silicone plug and fill it up. It gave me excellent results. Now Boretech has a suppressor specific cleaning kit as well.
I'm glad all my moderators are strippable so i don't have to deal with this all i have to do is open it up, use something to clean like boretech eliminator and brush away.
That Hybrid.46 looks like it’s seen better days. I’ve had one for years and have never even once cleaned mine. In fact, the directions say do not clean! I should a few rounds of super high power .375 rounds through mine to blow out stuff.
"You're a frickin hill-jack, trying to do something with chemistry..."! Love it! Chemistry for the common man! Definitely interesting and equally entertaining. Do it again
I've had great success with DUB Aluminum wheel cleaner. I have a Griffin Armament Sportsman that is all aluminum. It gained some weight and the DUB cleaner did a great job loosening and dissolving the crud. It didn't harm the finish or base metal either. I have used "the dip" before with Rimfire cans. You can increase it's aggressiveness by using it in an ultrasonic cleaner. I don't use it in the ultrasonic tank. I put my baffles (Stainless only) in a spaghetti sauce jar. Add dip solution until the baffles are covered then place the jar in the ultrasonic tank. Add plain water to the tank and run as you normally would. The dip solution can be neutralized with table salt when you are finished with it. Or save the solution and drop off at your local Hazmat days.
Don't know about Dub but be very careful with aluminum wheel cleaners in general. Several of them contain hydrofluoric acid which is super nasty stuff. It burns your skin like other acids except that it penetrates the skin surface and doesn't wash off with water.
There is a bunch that i never knew...particularly the lead acetate hazard - Thanks! I've been looking at a couple of suppressors that state they are "maintenance free" but looking at what you got out of yours makes me second guess those claims.
Seriously interesting experiments Sir - and don't be discouraged if things go awry. That's what experimentation is all about. I laughed heartily at your term "Chinesium" ... that's a new element that I'll be quoting often!
I soak my suppressors in BoreTech Eliminator every one thousand or so rounds. It keeps them maintained and I don’t gain any weight. I soak for one hour, rinse with water then rinse withBallistol and water mix of 90 percent water and ten percent Ballistol. I have never had any issue whatsoever but.. my finish is long gone, it’s been cooked, painted over and re painted over five times.
A way to prevent hot spots in your UT cleaner is to put the suppressor in the cleaner in a jar, and put the jar in the tank and fill the space around the jar with water.
I watch a lot of TH-cam and and I always enjoy logging in to see a post from “Johnny”. Keep up the good work and don’t leave TH-cam. We love watching this stuff even if it isn’t what we do in our free time. This was an interesting video for me because of my chem background in college recently.
You are introducing many more elements to the solution, not just lead. The brown color is happening because your solution is oxidizing the steel (aka iron) in the brush you used as a way to remove the suppressor. Oxidized iron is also known as rust...which is causing the brown color of your solution. If your suppressor was a dedicated 22lr can, you would really just have lead buildup in the baffles, with a carbon and a little copper (if you shoot copper coated bullets). Since your suppressor is a centerfire can, there really isn't going to be much in the way of pure lead buildup...it's mostly carbon fouling...can't remove a lot of lead if it isn't there to being with. I use "The Dip" on my 22lr suppressors...I don't even bother cleaning my centerfire suppressor...especially since I can't remove the baffles. To dispose of my lead acetate solution, I just leave the jar open and let the solution evaporate over time (outside, of course)....only the lead is left in the bottom. I'll try the zinc method next time. IMO, cleaning a sealed centerfire suppressor is king of like trying to clean your car muffler. If the suppressor is still efficiently suppressing sound, then leave it alone. Running a carbon cleaner like that piston cleaner seems to be doing something, but if you can't get to the baffles to clean/scrap them, then what is the point?
something you forget that is a major contributor to fouling with 22LR and that is wax....22LR are lubricated with a fair amount of wax and boy oh boy does it build up
I clean my guns and suppressors with a product named “Shooter’s Lube -Stage 1 Military Grade” weapon cleaner. I spray removable baffles, wait a few minutes, then simply wipe down with a cloth. Baffles look like brand new when done. Same for their tube. For non-removable baffles, just pour an ounce into tube, put a finger over inlet & outlet, and shake it up to completely cover/soak the innards. Then drain after a few minutes (I reclaim the contents for future use), then stand it up on its end where it will “self dry” in an hour or two...
I am not a chemist but I did work at TBAC for some time. The suppressors they make are 100% titanium so I only recommend this with titanium suppressors only. CLR works really well at cleaning gunk out of suppressors. At TBAC they use the Zep brand CLR. It works really well getting the gunk out of them. If it is really bad you may need to repeat the process.
I appreciate the your info even and especially if you feel like a "noob". There are so many things in life that would be so much safer and easier just because others share their experience. Thank you.
Ok with my limited chemistry knowledge i will offer a few suggestions here: 1: your bucket idea is ok for a waste bucket, but not the reaction vessel. The zinc will 'eat up' all the solution alongside the lead, unless the reaction turning the lead acetate to zinc in that solution requires lead acetate to be formed first. 2: as a few others have noted, if you want to speed this up buy a bag of powdered zinc from the internet/a metal or chemistry supplier. wire's alright for surface area, but you want surface area here. basically goes (from most to least) powder, granules, pellets (shot), and then just chunks of it. i'd put wire around the shot level. if you could find zinc mesh that would work faster too, but may fill up with lead pretty quick as well. long story short the finer the better. also, if you can, take the suppressor apart first. again, surface area. with it all put together the reaction is limited by how fast the reactants (peroxide and vinegar) are used up inside the suppressor tube. you've only got the small holes at the ends for "fresh" solution to get in. meanwhile if it's apart there will be more surfaces exposed constantly instead of it just being the outside of the can.
I did the dip on some individual baffles of my first 9mm can that I had been running 22 through. I knew the hazards. While it was the most effective and efficient way to deal with lead build up, I decided not to do it again. Now I just scrape off lead by hand with a pick maybe once a year. Sealed cans I don't even mess with.
First thing. KEEP this video. It is educational and the more info we have on the dip being "less hazardous" the better. I cleaned my suppressors recently and have a batch of the dip sitting around. I have been researching for years how to make it less toxic. It seems NaCl (aka salt) would work. I found a chemistry video of lead acetate reaction with NaCl with the chemistry formula, but no actual concrete video. Been told to boil water to make it a super saturated NaCl solution then dump into dip to make Lead Cloride (or is it Lead Clorate?). NileRed I am sub too and saw that zinc vid. Considered it too. I am also partially ready to join his patreon for a month to ask questions he might be able to answer regarding this at home chemistry. Still looking for a place in my area that will dispose of lead acetate. Any time I call a hazmat place, I get the question of "what is lead acetate". Morons.
I actually used CLR last week. Cleaned my Omega, but it took forever. But it is clean now. Also F-Class shooters are using CLR for cleaning carbon fouling in Stainless barrels.
Lead oxide and silver oxide are water insoluble and form a white precipitate. I believe the lead will be destroyed/ converted if you boil it, which is how you separate the 2 if you’re trying to rev over the silver for instance. No idea how tin and antimony react with h2o2 and/or acidic acid.
Like gold refining, you want to precipitate the lead out. Once done you can smelt it down and reconstitute into lead ingot. Low temps melt lead, so no need for toxic fumes. Once the lead is precipitate out you can reused your solution at least three times. It will be weaker, but it will still work. Once that last batch is done, add a base to neutralize and then disposed of safely.
Hey Johnny, not sure if anyone has said it but I believe if you used a "bubbler" not sure the scientific name but the stopper on alcohol fermenting containers. This way only thing venting off would be the hydrogen and you wouldn't have to worry as much of spillover since the hole would be smaller. Great video. Hopefully going to start reloading after I buy my house and get out of my appartment
Like someone else has said, since you're making lead salts by reacting the lead, copper, etc with the acetic acid I think your best bet is to let it dry out naturally and disposing of the remaining solids with your local special chemical disposal center. That being said, if they won't take it, I'd suggest you mix it with some epoxy.
Jonny, I use two methods to clean suppressors. I've found that "The Dip" works great on lead but not so well on carbon deposits. I read somewhere that you can take soda ash (sodium carbonate) and add that to the solution to neutralize the acid and precipitate out the lead. It's often sold as pool pH up at the hardware store. Add slowly and stir gently because it foams quite a bit. I'm not a chemist so I'm not sure this works but it does drop off a lot of the "white dust" into the solution. The blue color in your jar is likely dissolved copper from bullet jackets. For carbon, I soak my pistol baffles in a mixture of Lye(sodium Hydroxide) and water for a couple days. The carbon loosens up and can be wiped out or easily scraped off. You could also try firing some 223 rem to blast off the baffles since you can't take your suppressor apart. Lye is not good to get in your skin or eyes so make sure to use safety gear. however it's pretty safe to dump down the drain since it is used often in drain cleaning products. It should not be used on anything aluminum(only steel) as mixing with aluminum produces a toxic gas. It may strip off the finish on painted parts. Hope this helps.
CLR on carbon deposits. BUT don't leave it in the CLR for a long time as it can damage steel/stainless steel. 10-15 minutes works wonders. Search youtube on CLR on muzzle brakes.
Sodium carbonate is also sold as "washing soda". After I process circuit boards, I have to wash the etching tank. The rinsewater and the water in the dunk tank contain dissolved copper. I just add an excess of sodium carbonate to precipitate everything. Copper carbonate hydroxide isn't water-soluble. I don't know how that holds for lead. I'm assuming that the product would be a basic lead carbonate with low solubility as well. I don't know about the antimony fraction.
Johnny you have an Omega 300. remove the caps to get more crap out of it by scrapping. Also heat up some water to around 180F and add some limi-shine to it. Not much but around 1-2 TBL spoons. Then submerge the suppresor. WOrks like a charm. I use it on brakes as well.
Dude, seriously impressed with your experiment. Would like to see more like that concerning firearms. Where would you dispose of the liquid in the container or who would you call to find out? Thank you for the information 🔫👍🏻
Wow this is interesting. I sent my SpecWar back to silencerco a couple of years ago. It sucks waiting for it to come back but they did a great job and updated the locking ring thingy at no charge. Still your chemistry is awesome. Thanks for another great video.
The white stuff is probably antimony acetate. It is moderately water-soluble and forms white crystals. Also, antimony is very common in lead alloys. As for the suppressor the brown stuff is probably hydrated iron oxide or rust. Not sure if it'll ruin the process tho as the visual can be more dramatic than the rusting damage actually is. I'd like to see you try again with the suppressor and this time reduce the volume of your solution by boiling so the lead would come out more easily (also get's rid of the leftover peroxide).
Not a video that I would normally watch, but you are just so dang entertaining and I appreciate your willingness to "experiment" for our benefit. When will you start suppressor cleaning business?
There was an article on the web about using the dip to clean stainless steel. While it does not appear to cause damage to the steel, it actually does cause oxidation. That's what that brownish colored stuff was. Rust. You rusted/oxidized parts of your can, dude. Unless you go to town with cast lead or high pressure exposed-base FMJs, there shouldn't be much of any lead in your can. Use a solution to dissolve the carbon from time to time, and you'll be good.
You passivate lead acetate by just adding table salt. Lead Acetate + Sodium Chloride = Lead Chloride + Sodium Acetate. This is a balanced double replacement (metathesis) reaction. Add enough salt that it won't all dissolve when the solution is heated to boiling. In this supersaturated brine, no lead acetate can still exist. And then, to decompose the lead chloride, mix it with soda ash and heat it to melting. The soda ash neutralizes the HCL vapors (Hydrochloric acid) that will result.
Or just add table salt to the liquid and get solid, white, lead chloride out of it. It's a safer lead compound to deal with, same as the lead in Dutch Boy paint back in the day. Easier to ethically dispose of than lead acetate, just take to where lead paint is disposed of. After pouring the solution + precipitated lead chloride through good filter paper, in funnel, then take the filter paper + PbCl in it in a proper container to lead paint disposal site. The sodium acetate can go down a drain as it is environmentally benign, unlike Drano, etc. Reaction: Pb(OAc)2+2NaCl(aq)→PbCl2(s)↓+2NaOAc(aq)
Definitely do not keep zinc submerged in the bucket long term. You’ll waste your zinc by reacting it with the acid and the water until your left with nothing and you’ll also be producing hydrogen until all the zinc is gone. You don’t really need to remove the lead acetate out of solution until you’re completely done with it. It would probably be a better idea to get a safe storage container designed for chemicals to dedicate to the solution and then use it until all the acetic acid from the vinegar is converted to lead acetate after which you can remove the lead from solution by dropping the zinc in and converting the zinc to zinc acetate and the lead acetate to lead metal. Zinc powder or shavings would work faster as well due to a higher surface area. If you look up “electrochemical series” and locate lead and zinc, any metal below zinc should work as replacement. You’ll also see a voltage and that’s the voltage produced by the natural reaction or the voltage required to reverse it by applying a voltage to the solution.
Take your suppressor and soak it in prolong engine treatment. It's an anti friction metal treatment. It will also soak into the metal and allow for easy clean up with muscle fp10 for fire arms. Or weapon shield is the same type of product. The film from the product keeps carbon from clinging to metal surface. It's also a super lube for all metal . heat up your can with heat gun to about 150 200 degrees and soak it in the treatment sir. Leave it soak for a day or two to fully coat and penetration of all parts of your suppressor .
The white powder is the lead sugar , lead acetate. I’ve read probably the same stuff. the rest is Peracetic (sp?)acid. Don’t melt the sugar that’s the most deadly way . The zinc affected lead ehh I dunno. Also their should be some tin, antimony, silver, and arcinic (sp?) just what was their to start with. Paracetic acid also gets copper so the bronze brass dissolved.
If you use a rod in the other jar and pour onto the rod, you can get a cleaner extraction (it’s still a crude extraction) but it’ll be better. This is called decanting.
The white sediment could either be some poorly soluble lead salts like lead sulfate, perhaps from sulfates in your tap water, or from some other additives in the lead that would form insoluble salts. Maybe antimony?
the piston clean is great for removing carbon on brakes and the bore . lots of f class guys use it or even clr . only it will remove bluing . it will even get a carboned up adjustable gas block lose .
That's an awesome idea. I'd like for it to evaporate over time, but it would probably be safer to have something spill-proof for long term. Definitely something I'll consider.
Suppressors are a consumable item, stripable ones make life easier but there comes a time to throw a can in the trash can. Given you guys have a lot more invested in them than we do in europe.
so what? most things are 'consumable' if you put it like that, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to clean them and make them last longer. mind you, cleaning them probably makes the gas cutting damage to the baffles worse as its not protected by a layer of carbon.
I think a large part of the solution change in color was due to the other elements that would be found along with lead I.e. Copper, powder and lead as well, compared to your first test with pure round ball lead. So the addition of these elements most likely negated some of the effectiveness of the solution.
salt+acid+oxidizer+metal=extreme potential for reaction with a large number of metals. Gota be careful with what your suppressor is made of. Inconel and titanium are likely fine, but when you start getting to aluminum and steel, caution needs to be taken.
Lead oxide is white, perhaps the H202 is forming it faster than the vinegar can dissolve it.. idk? would the oxidation be accelerated by including some kinds of salts?
I have been using Piston Clean on my Can and gun parts for years. I posted that Chemical on your suppressor video. I don't know why you are trying do dissolve lead. You are not going to get lead in the Can. Carbon is what builds up. I clean my can every time I use it. You won't have any problems taking it apart.
I think the reason you got that red solution when putting the suppressor in is because. The original chemicle you cleaned it in was likely still inside the suppressor which resulted in a different chemicle reaction. As opposed to just lead and your peroxide/vinegar solution. It is also worth noting you also added the material the suppressor is made out of which I'm assuming is steel. Which would oxidize in that solution. Then there's also the presence of carbon and any other foreign materials that may or may not be in the suppressor. Really just a lot of variables there. But I'd assume the original cleaning solution would be the root cause. Update: so I watched the rest of the video. I can't deny the brush did seem to be the cause. However you still might consider what I said above for future experiments.
You could have used sulfuric acid on the lead acetate turning it into lead sulfate and its not water soluble. I do this with lead waist and dump it into old batteries and get rid of it at the scrap yard.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench I use Rooto, professional drain opener for most stuff, its 93.2% sulfuric acid. But how much is needed would depend on volume of sulfuric acid to how much lead you have in solution. You can also use 98% lab grade but its not worth it. Here is an easy way to try it out. Take your solution with the lead in it and slowly add sulfuric acid. You should see a white precipitate, when you stop seeing the white precipitate falling out of solution the reaction is done, so no more acid is needed. Keep in mind this must be added SLOW as the reaction my be very exothermic. Use coffee filters to filter off the white precipitate (lead sulfate). You could then dump the solution down the drain. If you think the acid will eat pipes just neutralize it before dumping by adding sodium bicarbonate ( Baking Soda ) till it stops bubbling or tests around 7 for PH. One more thing, try it with a small amount before doing a big batch. Other contamination could mess with the outcome. Also use safety glasses and being done out doors/ventilated is best
I know this is too late but if you look into brewery jars called carboys they’re 5 gal glass jugs you can also buy a bubbler for it which is a rubber cork with a bit of water on top that allows gases to escape but nothing gets in
Hi college chemistry student, some info may be off. the blue solution looks to probably be cuprous acetate from the copper jackets of the bullets. That line that was forming appears to be the separation between the lead and zinc acetate with lead metal floating in between (lighter than lead acetate and heavier than the zinc acetate) The orange mist that formed was probably a mix of iron and copper dissolving off the wire holder and inside of the baffles. As for the white precipitate I don’t think I know at all why could have caused it other than maybe some weird reaction between an oxide layer on the lead balls Cool experiment! Would love to see it tried again, maybe try filtering the precipitates with a coffee filter at the end too?
Contact Nilered he can probably explain better. I think you electroplated your suppressor. Acidic solution and a few different metals. Hope your suppressor is ok
Regarding the suppressor solution I wouldn’t think you would get a lot of lead to accumulate on the zinc after the can is removed. Why? Bc your bullets are copper jacketed… the barrel is not exposed to lead unlike a 22 long rifle barrel or can. If you ran no or partial copper jacketed bullets then I would assume you would get more lead from a suppressor dip as in that case the lead barring surface is in contact with the rifling instead of a copper jacket. I use the dip to clean carbon off my muzzle breaks and the solution turns more dark blue and I assume that’s copper and carbon that has been dissolved.
I'd be very careful with that solution, it makes peroxyacetic acid which is quite a bit more powerful than the two base liquids. It will damage steel over time and possibly other more reactive metals. Also add aluminum foil to the brown solution, it likely contains chromium in a dangerous form.
Why wouldn’t you just leave the lead acetate solution in a container to evaporate into a crystalline solid? You could then measure the amount precisely and react it with sulphuric acid to make lead sulphate which isn’t water soluble. You could safely dispose of that in the garbage or dilute it into some concrete and dispose of it as patio stone lol
So just out of curiosity… when you have created the lead acetate solution just leave it outside and let it evaporate. Once it has evaporated add sulfuric acid to it and then it will turn it in to lead sulfate? Which is obviously safer I’m assuming. Then you can dispose of it?
I’ve had my suppressor for 6 years. It’s a 22 AAC Element. I just throw the stainless baffles into my wet tumbler and let it run all night. Sometimes I tumble the baffles with my brass. Keep in mine, I have to tumble them for a very long time, 12-24 hours. I don’t use the suppressor all the time because I don’t like cleaning it.
@Shannon idk if the piston clean is similar to CLR but that’s what I have heard people using to clean there suppressors and muzzle brakes also barrels ?????? Idk maybe that might work for you
I thought build up in suppressors was primarily carbon and other byproducts of combustion. I'd be curious if there was a maintenance schedule of cleaning with only the Piston Kleen (e.g. quarterly or monthly) that would keep things relatively gunk-free.
That's the plan, as of right now. Piston Kleen and a fresh layer of anti-sieze on threads every few range trips. Hopefully it will make this dip stuff unnecessary.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench this was a test i did 10+ years ago, to make the baffels easier to clean the next time, if the baffles are removable, heat them up to 150f ish and drop them in a jar of DOT 5 Silicone Brake Fluid over night. then just wipe them off and put them back in. the heat allows it to better "soak up" into the metal pores...
primers are made of lead fulminate from what i understand so that is where youre getting lead from and why you always see those warnings on ammo boxes and stuff
You five gallon bucket idea will work but with a slight modification, you can’t add the zinc before or at the same time as the lead or the lead won’t (for the most part) dissolve and you will only form zinc acetate. You will need to add the lead/suppressor first. then, once you’ve dissolved all the lead you wanted to, you can add the zinc to make the solution “safer” ( I don’t actually know if zinc acetate is safer then lead acetate as both zinc and lead are Toxic metals, but I would assume it probably is, just like you said though don’t touch either with bare skin)
Call me crazy but it seems to be that lead would be the least or your worries. I would think carbon would be the majority of the build up In the suppressor. Right? The bullets are mostly copper and even if the backs were exposed lead it would still only be tiny flakes of lead in the suppressor.
Not that it helps much but the blue color is due to copper 2 acetate. I don't believe it's toxic but it also isn't blue Kool aid. Lead acetate also used to be used to sweeten wine.
don't forget to neutralize the vinegar with a tea spoon of kitchen soda. iron sewage pipe will be eaten away by acidic stuff. and they are expensive to repair. 👌 and i guess those wire brush hair are copper. same stuff left behind when a fmj pass through the suppressor besides lead.
I watched the video twice, because the first time I didn't see where you did a cleaning with the suppressor in the solution with zinc at the same time. You only put zinc in the solution after the suppressor was taken out. What happens when you put the zinc in with the suppressor, or just lead balls if you don't have another suppresser to clean? Is the cleaning faster? Slower? No change? I clean my compensators with the peroxide/vinegar solution, but would like to see what happens with zinc added during the cleaning. Any chance you will make another video showing this?
Just saying, that probaly is iron acetate, same color and condition to this acetate production, the black stuff probaly is the iron returning to the metallic or iron oxide( II state probaly) forms.
There’s no real need to go to this method. Run the can hard (get the temp way up) that should self clean it. The dip is normally used on 22 cans that do get lead build up inside them. The only can I worry about cleaning, if you could call it that is my 22 can. My center fire cans I mag dump a few mags every so often an call it good. Most can benefit from having a build up inside, yes hard fact for the ocd crowd to under stand.
Once you get all the lead out of solution that blue acidic solution can be used to copper plate just about anything you can run a current through. You'll need an old school car battery charger (new ones have too many safeties...) and not a lot else. Hand tool rescue has done it a few times, he may have a video on making the copper solution and the process on using it to plate things. Judging by the depth of blue color it's not a lot of copper, I wouldn't expect great results but you could plate copper wire (for example) just to pull the copper out of solution
You should check out stingerworx suppressors. You can break it down to individual parts and get it clean without worrying about parts inside the can that are hard to get to.
Since there is more than just lead in the suppressor couldn't this have some other affects? Like there may be a small amount of copper in some form, and powder residue.
Check out this follow up video from The VSO Gun Channel. He knows a lot more about chemistry and gives an easier solution. th-cam.com/video/MaOBNJvRx0o/w-d-xo.html
This seems like the sort of video I will soon delete in shame.
Also: I bought a Creality Ender 3 S1. We can talk about it on the stream tomorrow night, but it will be a few weeks before I get a video put together. It's still in the box because I've been staring at lead all week.
No worries, interesting stuff. Need to see if you can cast a bullet from what you collect :). I’ve got a supressor on order so this will be in the back of my mind for future consideration. Maybe some stronger acids could move the process along faster?
I vote for leaving the video up, I don't see any problem with it. Also, I may be wrong, but I think the white precipitate may have been lead that fell out of solution because you're solution reached its saturation point. Keep up the good work Sir.
Don't delete the video please I may want to watch it again
FYI kinda related to this but more relevant to your annealing, "reese on the range" is a metallurgist on yt and he has a very good explanation of the science of annealing on his channel. Thought you may be able to consult him on other metallurgy questions too and it looks like he watches your channel as well. Just thought I'd let you know Sir.
Because of you I bought an Ender 5 Pro and the Lee APP. I got a couple 3D projects in mind. And I just can’t get over the speed of the Lee once you got it set up.
Quick question - what size tubes do you buy that fits the collator?
Hey Johnny, if you want to speed up the reaction you can use zinc powder instead of a large piece of zinc. The increased surface area of the powder will help a lot.
Ooh, good idea!
Nilered did that in the 2nd video, so I considered it. I was holding out hope that maybe we could grow some cool looking crystals, and we did a little bit. Like you say, I'm sure all that surface area would help a lot.
Maybe for something reusable you could get thin sheets, maybe foil, and coil it up to get surface area too.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench Try leaving it overnight in Coke once in a while
Fellow student of TH-cam Chemistry University here, I think what happened is due to what's called the "Reactivity Series of Metals", basically some metals are more reactive, and others less so. You can use this to swap one metal for another in a solution, and since Iron (in the brush handle & bristles) is more reactive than Lead, it was not only dissolving due to the solution, but whatever lead had dissolved into the solution was immedately being replaced by iron from the handle. Zinc is more reactive than iron, so when you put the zinc coil in that nasty solution, both the iron and the lead were precipitating out which is why you got a different looking precpitate.
This is used in Gold refnining because Gold is the least reactive metal. A process called "inquartation" can be used whereby carat gold (i.e., gold that is not pure) is alloyed with sterling silver to make it easier to dissolve out the silver and base metals. The pure metallic gold is left behind, and then the solution that is full of silver, copper, etc can be refined using the reactivity series to remove just the silver by putting in pieces of copper.
Alright he summed up my comment way better than I wrote it haha. Any experience with iron sulfate to precipitate gold in solution? I think I accidentally screwed up with adding more hydrochloric acid and peroxide over and over and eventually got the gold in solution (over a week or 2, no heat). Can’t find any sodium metabisulfate locally but did locate copperas (iron sulfate).
This was cool. I might duplicate from the perspective of a classically trained chemist.
Also, that copper solution at the end is either copper acetate or copper hydroxide. Maybe both. I’m guessing acetate because of the excess vinegar in the original peracetic acid mix. To test this take a small sample (maybe 100ml or so) and get some clear, strong liquor like everclear or 151 and dilute it. If precipitates you have copper acetate. If it doesn’t then you have the hydroxide.
This will determine how you go about cleaning up the copper
That would be really awesome. Correct it, refine it, explain it, expand it, refute it...I'd be happy to hear anything from someone that understands what's going on.
Easier: freeze distill metal acetates, the 90% of the acetates will form a crust on the surface and also suspend as particles, I just did this for copper acetate. Then filter for pure metal acetates.
@@notamouse5630 I hate freeze distillation, makes a mess. I’m a classical wet chemist- contain everything in a liquid system and kick species out chemically.
@@VSO_Gun_Channel Depends upon whether the container is glass, Also there is the option of freeze distillation, scraping the crust, crushing and centrifuging the slush, and taking the concentrate for round 2 of freeze distillation. All without glassware, which was my reason. I am a classic kitchen chemist reusing polymer ice cream cointainers. This freeze distillation makes both a crystalline product and a concentrate.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench Aluminum powder is relatively cheap (Alpha Chemical sells 2lb for $26) and IIRC is a stronger reducing agent than Zinc, plus the powder will react faster. Would recommend trying it.
I'm not a gun guy at all. I don't know how common any of this is, but I think it's really cool that you've potentially made this process safer. Bioavailable lead being dumped into the environment is serious & if more people start doing this that's awesome. Also really fun chemistry.
1. REGULAR MAINTENANCE is key to suppressors especially .22 rimfire!
2. Clean a take down suppressor (I don't like sealed units) as often as you clean the weapon (doesn't allow build up of lead or carbon).
3. Use brass brush for steel parts and nylon for aluminum.
4. Apply a light coat of CLP, white Lithium grease or petroleum jelly to internal parts (makes cleaning much easier).
5. Don't be a pig with your equipment, keep things maintained and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think that line might be the separation line of zinc acetate and lead acetate since they have different weights. Lead has more molecular weight so it would gravitate below the zinc acetate.
That could explain why the reaction slowed way down once that line went below the zinc - it's harder for the lead acetate to get close to zinc metal since it is surrounded by zinc acetate.
Suggesting a stir bar to keep the solution made of the acetates mixed or keep the zinc metal close to the bottom.
Alright the blue color of the last dip is copper. Once the copper goes in solution it will cement out on iron (why it plated on the can). The iron replaced it the exact same way the zinc does the lead. So to get it out of solution you can literally throw any scrap iron in and it’ll drop out. I’d avoid stainless as it will add other stuff like chromium, vanadium, etc. which may be more toxic than the copper. Plain old low grade steel is your best bet. You can also use electrolysis (which would put you on the road to plating lead projectiles for instance..). I know sodium metabisulfate and iron sulfate are 2 used to drop gold and other precious metals, not sure if they’d do copper but might be worth looking into. Oh and diluting the solution with water will make the lead and silver oxide drop out of solution.
In Texas, my town has hazmat collection days from time to time. I can drive up to a parking lot and the state will dispose of hazardous chemicals for me (residential quantities only). I have never tried to do lead acetate, but it might be worth a few calls to Tennessee officials.
Howdy Tex! I’m also in Texas (North Central). Can you tell me what town or towns do this. I have a few jars that need to go away. Thanks!
@@homersaypian3798 almost every large-ish municipality will have a residential hazardous waste disposal site. I would try looking for your town + residential hazardous waste disposal.
Sometimes it's a city-run location and sometime the local fire department will handle it.
@@homersaypian3798 you probably have to call your city or county. I don’t think residents of other towns can show up.
As a chemist I love that experiment! That's why we do research so it can be tested for actual usecases! Nice job! (And don't worry it failed. This is what engineers do. They test what should work as a usecase and then often spend years ironing the kinks out)
I had no idea about any of this kind of thing. Seems if it weren't so hard to send suppressors everywhere you could have a reasonably priced cleaning service just so you didn't have to deal with that kind of crap.
My thoughts exactly...
If you have a suppressor with some build up in it just get some Boretech C4. Just plug the bore with a silicone plug and fill it up. It gave me excellent results. Now Boretech has a suppressor specific cleaning kit as well.
I'm glad all my moderators are strippable so i don't have to deal with this all i have to do is open it up, use something to clean like boretech eliminator and brush away.
That Hybrid.46 looks like it’s seen better days. I’ve had one for years and have never even once cleaned mine. In fact, the directions say do not clean! I should a few rounds of super high power .375 rounds through mine to blow out stuff.
"You're a frickin hill-jack, trying to do something with chemistry..."! Love it! Chemistry for the common man! Definitely interesting and equally entertaining. Do it again
I've had great success with DUB Aluminum wheel cleaner. I have a Griffin Armament Sportsman that is all aluminum. It gained some weight and the DUB cleaner did a great job loosening and dissolving the crud. It didn't harm the finish or base metal either.
I have used "the dip" before with Rimfire cans. You can increase it's aggressiveness by using it in an ultrasonic cleaner. I don't use it in the ultrasonic tank. I put my baffles (Stainless only) in a spaghetti sauce jar. Add dip solution until the baffles are covered then place the jar in the ultrasonic tank. Add plain water to the tank and run as you normally would.
The dip solution can be neutralized with table salt when you are finished with it. Or save the solution and drop off at your local Hazmat days.
Don't know about Dub but be very careful with aluminum wheel cleaners in general. Several of them contain hydrofluoric acid which is super nasty stuff. It burns your skin like other acids except that it penetrates the skin surface and doesn't wash off with water.
"This is where everything goes wrong"!!!
I giggled like a school girl when you said that and that is exactly why I love this channel.
There is a bunch that i never knew...particularly the lead acetate hazard - Thanks! I've been looking at a couple of suppressors that state they are "maintenance free" but looking at what you got out of yours makes me second guess those claims.
theres no such thing really. All will need to be either cleaned or re-cored eventually
Seriously interesting experiments Sir - and don't be discouraged if things go awry. That's what experimentation is all about. I laughed heartily at your term "Chinesium" ... that's a new element that I'll be quoting often!
I laughed at “Chinesium” too and think I’ll use that adjective for now on. Lol
I soak my suppressors in BoreTech Eliminator every one thousand or so rounds. It keeps them maintained and I don’t gain any weight. I soak for one hour, rinse with water then rinse withBallistol and water mix of 90 percent water and ten percent Ballistol. I have never had any issue whatsoever but.. my finish is long gone, it’s been cooked, painted over and re painted over five times.
A way to prevent hot spots in your UT cleaner is to put the suppressor in the cleaner in a jar, and put the jar in the tank and fill the space around the jar with water.
I watch a lot of TH-cam and and I always enjoy logging in to see a post from “Johnny”. Keep up the good work and don’t leave TH-cam. We love watching this stuff even if it isn’t what we do in our free time. This was an interesting video for me because of my chem background in college recently.
You are introducing many more elements to the solution, not just lead. The brown color is happening because your solution is oxidizing the steel (aka iron) in the brush you used as a way to remove the suppressor. Oxidized iron is also known as rust...which is causing the brown color of your solution.
If your suppressor was a dedicated 22lr can, you would really just have lead buildup in the baffles, with a carbon and a little copper (if you shoot copper coated bullets). Since your suppressor is a centerfire can, there really isn't going to be much in the way of pure lead buildup...it's mostly carbon fouling...can't remove a lot of lead if it isn't there to being with.
I use "The Dip" on my 22lr suppressors...I don't even bother cleaning my centerfire suppressor...especially since I can't remove the baffles. To dispose of my lead acetate solution, I just leave the jar open and let the solution evaporate over time (outside, of course)....only the lead is left in the bottom. I'll try the zinc method next time.
IMO, cleaning a sealed centerfire suppressor is king of like trying to clean your car muffler. If the suppressor is still efficiently suppressing sound, then leave it alone. Running a carbon cleaner like that piston cleaner seems to be doing something, but if you can't get to the baffles to clean/scrap them, then what is the point?
something you forget that is a major contributor to fouling with 22LR and that is wax....22LR are lubricated with a fair amount of wax and boy oh boy does it build up
You discover things similarly to the ways I do, hopefully we don't die! Very enjoyable to watch someone else do it. Thanks!
This is why I love your channel, never gong to know what I'm go get but it's always entertaining.
I clean my guns and suppressors with a product named “Shooter’s Lube -Stage 1 Military Grade” weapon cleaner. I spray removable baffles, wait a few minutes, then simply wipe down with a cloth. Baffles look like brand new when done. Same for their tube. For non-removable baffles, just pour an ounce into tube, put a finger over inlet & outlet, and shake it up to completely cover/soak the innards. Then drain after a few minutes (I reclaim the contents for future use), then stand it up on its end where it will “self dry” in an hour or two...
I am not a chemist but I did work at TBAC for some time. The suppressors they make are 100% titanium so I only recommend this with titanium suppressors only. CLR works really well at cleaning gunk out of suppressors. At TBAC they use the Zep brand CLR. It works really well getting the gunk out of them. If it is really bad you may need to repeat the process.
I appreciate the your info even and especially if you feel like a "noob". There are so many things in life that would be so much safer and easier just because others share their experience. Thank you.
Ok with my limited chemistry knowledge i will offer a few suggestions here:
1: your bucket idea is ok for a waste bucket, but not the reaction vessel. The zinc will 'eat up' all the solution alongside the lead, unless the reaction turning the lead acetate to zinc in that solution requires lead acetate to be formed first.
2: as a few others have noted, if you want to speed this up buy a bag of powdered zinc from the internet/a metal or chemistry supplier. wire's alright for surface area, but you want surface area here. basically goes (from most to least) powder, granules, pellets (shot), and then just chunks of it. i'd put wire around the shot level. if you could find zinc mesh that would work faster too, but may fill up with lead pretty quick as well. long story short the finer the better.
also, if you can, take the suppressor apart first. again, surface area. with it all put together the reaction is limited by how fast the reactants (peroxide and vinegar) are used up inside the suppressor tube. you've only got the small holes at the ends for "fresh" solution to get in. meanwhile if it's apart there will be more surfaces exposed constantly instead of it just being the outside of the can.
I did the dip on some individual baffles of my first 9mm can that I had been running 22 through. I knew the hazards. While it was the most effective and efficient way to deal with lead build up, I decided not to do it again. Now I just scrape off lead by hand with a pick maybe once a year. Sealed cans I don't even mess with.
First thing. KEEP this video. It is educational and the more info we have on the dip being "less hazardous" the better.
I cleaned my suppressors recently and have a batch of the dip sitting around. I have been researching for years how to make it less toxic.
It seems NaCl (aka salt) would work. I found a chemistry video of lead acetate reaction with NaCl with the chemistry formula, but no actual concrete video. Been told to boil water to make it a super saturated NaCl solution then dump into dip to make Lead Cloride (or is it Lead Clorate?). NileRed I am sub too and saw that zinc vid. Considered it too. I am also partially ready to join his patreon for a month to ask questions he might be able to answer regarding this at home chemistry.
Still looking for a place in my area that will dispose of lead acetate. Any time I call a hazmat place, I get the question of "what is lead acetate". Morons.
Any new updates or Revelations to the suppressor cleaning process?
I actually used CLR last week. Cleaned my Omega, but it took forever. But it is clean now. Also F-Class shooters are using CLR for cleaning carbon fouling in Stainless barrels.
Lead oxide and silver oxide are water insoluble and form a white precipitate. I believe the lead will be destroyed/ converted if you boil it, which is how you separate the 2 if you’re trying to rev over the silver for instance. No idea how tin and antimony react with h2o2 and/or acidic acid.
Like gold refining, you want to precipitate the lead out. Once done you can smelt it down and reconstitute into lead ingot. Low temps melt lead, so no need for toxic fumes. Once the lead is precipitate out you can reused your solution at least three times. It will be weaker, but it will still work. Once that last batch is done, add a base to neutralize and then disposed of safely.
Hey Johnny, not sure if anyone has said it but I believe if you used a "bubbler" not sure the scientific name but the stopper on alcohol fermenting containers. This way only thing venting off would be the hydrogen and you wouldn't have to worry as much of spillover since the hole would be smaller. Great video. Hopefully going to start reloading after I buy my house and get out of my appartment
Like someone else has said, since you're making lead salts by reacting the lead, copper, etc with the acetic acid I think your best bet is to let it dry out naturally and disposing of the remaining solids with your local special chemical disposal center. That being said, if they won't take it, I'd suggest you mix it with some epoxy.
NileRed enjoyed here!! Great vid bossman! Also very very nice and interesting use of chemistry to do what clean a suppressor
Just use CLR, no lead acetate produced. I soak my suppressor for 5 min, rinse with warm water and dry it out in the oven. easy peasy
Jonny, I use two methods to clean suppressors.
I've found that "The Dip" works great on lead but not so well on carbon deposits. I read somewhere that you can take soda ash (sodium carbonate) and add that to the solution to neutralize the acid and precipitate out the lead. It's often sold as pool pH up at the hardware store. Add slowly and stir gently because it foams quite a bit. I'm not a chemist so I'm not sure this works but it does drop off a lot of the "white dust" into the solution. The blue color in your jar is likely dissolved copper from bullet jackets.
For carbon, I soak my pistol baffles in a mixture of Lye(sodium Hydroxide) and water for a couple days. The carbon loosens up and can be wiped out or easily scraped off. You could also try firing some 223 rem to blast off the baffles since you can't take your suppressor apart. Lye is not good to get in your skin or eyes so make sure to use safety gear. however it's pretty safe to dump down the drain since it is used often in drain cleaning products. It should not be used on anything aluminum(only steel) as mixing with aluminum produces a toxic gas. It may strip off the finish on painted parts.
Hope this helps.
CLR on carbon deposits. BUT don't leave it in the CLR for a long time as it can damage steel/stainless steel. 10-15 minutes works wonders. Search youtube on CLR on muzzle brakes.
Sodium carbonate is also sold as "washing soda". After I process circuit boards, I have to wash the etching tank. The rinsewater and the water in the dunk tank contain dissolved copper. I just add an excess of sodium carbonate to precipitate everything. Copper carbonate hydroxide isn't water-soluble.
I don't know how that holds for lead. I'm assuming that the product would be a basic lead carbonate with low solubility as well. I don't know about the antimony fraction.
Johnny you have an Omega 300. remove the caps to get more crap out of it by scrapping. Also heat up some water to around 180F and add some limi-shine to it. Not much but around 1-2 TBL spoons. Then submerge the suppresor. WOrks like a charm. I use it on brakes as well.
Dude, seriously impressed with your experiment. Would like to see more like that concerning firearms. Where would you dispose of the liquid in the container or who would you call to find out?
Thank you for the information 🔫👍🏻
Fascinating results. Thanks for the thorough documentation, as always.
Wow this is interesting. I sent my SpecWar back to silencerco a couple of years ago. It sucks waiting for it to come back but they did a great job and updated the locking ring thingy at no charge. Still your chemistry is awesome. Thanks for another great video.
The white stuff is probably antimony acetate. It is moderately water-soluble and forms white crystals. Also, antimony is very common in lead alloys. As for the suppressor the brown stuff is probably hydrated iron oxide or rust. Not sure if it'll ruin the process tho as the visual can be more dramatic than the rusting damage actually is. I'd like to see you try again with the suppressor and this time reduce the volume of your solution by boiling so the lead would come out more easily (also get's rid of the leftover peroxide).
Not a video that I would normally watch, but you are just so dang entertaining and I appreciate your willingness to "experiment" for our benefit. When will you start suppressor cleaning business?
There was an article on the web about using the dip to clean stainless steel. While it does not appear to cause damage to the steel, it actually does cause oxidation. That's what that brownish colored stuff was. Rust. You rusted/oxidized parts of your can, dude.
Unless you go to town with cast lead or high pressure exposed-base FMJs, there shouldn't be much of any lead in your can. Use a solution to dissolve the carbon from time to time, and you'll be good.
I clicked to see reloading and got a chemistry lesson, still love the channel.
You passivate lead acetate by just adding table salt. Lead Acetate + Sodium Chloride = Lead Chloride + Sodium Acetate. This is a balanced double replacement (metathesis) reaction. Add enough salt that it won't all dissolve when the solution is heated to boiling. In this supersaturated brine, no lead acetate can still exist.
And then, to decompose the lead chloride, mix it with soda ash and heat it to melting. The soda ash neutralizes the HCL vapors (Hydrochloric acid) that will result.
I'll be coming back to this video in a week. I'm a big fan of chemistry and I want to see what where this goes. 👍
Or just add table salt to the liquid and get solid, white, lead chloride out of it. It's a safer lead compound to deal with, same as the lead in Dutch Boy paint back in the day. Easier to ethically dispose of than lead acetate, just take to where lead paint is disposed of. After pouring the solution + precipitated lead chloride through good filter paper, in funnel, then take the filter paper + PbCl in it in a proper container to lead paint disposal site. The sodium acetate can go down a drain as it is environmentally benign, unlike Drano, etc. Reaction: Pb(OAc)2+2NaCl(aq)→PbCl2(s)↓+2NaOAc(aq)
Definitely do not keep zinc submerged in the bucket long term. You’ll waste your zinc by reacting it with the acid and the water until your left with nothing and you’ll also be producing hydrogen until all the zinc is gone. You don’t really need to remove the lead acetate out of solution until you’re completely done with it. It would probably be a better idea to get a safe storage container designed for chemicals to dedicate to the solution and then use it until all the acetic acid from the vinegar is converted to lead acetate after which you can remove the lead from solution by dropping the zinc in and converting the zinc to zinc acetate and the lead acetate to lead metal. Zinc powder or shavings would work faster as well due to a higher surface area. If you look up “electrochemical series” and locate lead and zinc, any metal below zinc should work as replacement. You’ll also see a voltage and that’s the voltage produced by the natural reaction or the voltage required to reverse it by applying a voltage to the solution.
Look up Cody's lab and ask him, he is a backyard chemistry genius
I got a canned response from robo-cody.
Super interesting. I don’t have a suppressor… yet. But I’m moving to Kentucky next month (from CA), so I’ll need this video at some point. Ha!
Take your suppressor and soak it in prolong engine treatment. It's an anti friction metal treatment. It will also soak into the metal and allow for easy clean up with muscle fp10 for fire arms. Or weapon shield is the same type of product. The film from the product keeps carbon from clinging to metal surface. It's also a super lube for all metal . heat up your can with heat gun to about 150 200 degrees and soak it in the treatment sir. Leave it soak for a day or two to fully coat and penetration of all parts of your suppressor .
The white powder is the lead sugar , lead acetate. I’ve read probably the same stuff. the rest is Peracetic (sp?)acid. Don’t melt the sugar that’s the most deadly way . The zinc affected lead ehh I dunno. Also their should be some tin, antimony, silver, and arcinic (sp?) just what was their to start with. Paracetic acid also gets copper so the bronze brass dissolved.
If you use a rod in the other jar and pour onto the rod, you can get a cleaner extraction (it’s still a crude extraction) but it’ll be better. This is called decanting.
The white sediment could either be some poorly soluble lead salts like lead sulfate, perhaps from sulfates in your tap water, or from some other additives in the lead that would form insoluble salts. Maybe antimony?
the piston clean is great for removing carbon on brakes and the bore . lots of f class guys use it or even clr . only it will remove bluing . it will even get a carboned up adjustable gas block lose .
Have you thought about getting an airlock like what craft brewers use? That way the hydrogen gas can still get out but even less chance of spillage.
That's an awesome idea. I'd like for it to evaporate over time, but it would probably be safer to have something spill-proof for long term. Definitely something I'll consider.
Isn't the point of those things just to create like a one way valve to prevent bacteria and whatnot from getting in?
I believe the white powder may be the trihydrate form of lead acetate. When lead acetate is dissolved in water it forms the trihydrate.
Suppressors are a consumable item, stripable ones make life easier but there comes a time to throw a can in the trash can. Given you guys have a lot more invested in them than we do in europe.
so what? most things are 'consumable' if you put it like that, doesn't mean you shouldn't try to clean them and make them last longer. mind you, cleaning them probably makes the gas cutting damage to the baffles worse as its not protected by a layer of carbon.
You might want to read what I said. But it's great that you agree.
Ok, i'm confused. What the heck were you trying to accomplish in this video?? At first I thought you were just trying to clean your suppressor....
I think a large part of the solution change in color was due to the other elements that would be found along with lead I.e. Copper, powder and lead as well, compared to your first test with pure round ball lead. So the addition of these elements most likely negated some of the effectiveness of the solution.
Jrb thanks for doing this . Keep this video up it's a learning tool .
salt+acid+oxidizer+metal=extreme potential for reaction with a large number of metals. Gota be careful with what your suppressor is made of. Inconel and titanium are likely fine, but when you start getting to aluminum and steel, caution needs to be taken.
Lead oxide is white, perhaps the H202 is forming it faster than the vinegar can dissolve it.. idk? would the oxidation be accelerated by including some kinds of salts?
Outstanding video!! Always well presented information.
I have been using Piston Clean on my Can and gun parts for years. I posted that Chemical on your suppressor video. I don't know why you are trying do dissolve lead. You are not going to get lead in the Can.
Carbon is what builds up. I clean my can every time I use it. You won't have any problems taking it apart.
I think the reason you got that red solution when putting the suppressor in is because. The original chemicle you cleaned it in was likely still inside the suppressor which resulted in a different chemicle reaction. As opposed to just lead and your peroxide/vinegar solution. It is also worth noting you also added the material the suppressor is made out of which I'm assuming is steel. Which would oxidize in that solution. Then there's also the presence of carbon and any other foreign materials that may or may not be in the suppressor. Really just a lot of variables there. But I'd assume the original cleaning solution would be the root cause.
Update: so I watched the rest of the video. I can't deny the brush did seem to be the cause. However you still might consider what I said above for future experiments.
You could have used sulfuric acid on the lead acetate turning it into lead sulfate and its not water soluble. I do this with lead waist and dump it into old batteries and get rid of it at the scrap yard.
Drain cleaner or something more concentrated? I saw somewhere else that this was a good way to go...it might be worth a shot.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench I use Rooto, professional drain opener for most stuff, its 93.2% sulfuric acid. But how much is needed would depend on volume of sulfuric acid to how much lead you have in solution. You can also use 98% lab grade but its not worth it. Here is an easy way to try it out. Take your solution with the lead in it and slowly add sulfuric acid. You should see a white precipitate, when you stop seeing the white precipitate falling out of solution the reaction is done, so no more acid is needed. Keep in mind this must be added SLOW as the reaction my be very exothermic. Use coffee filters to filter off the white precipitate (lead sulfate). You could then dump the solution down the drain. If you think the acid will eat pipes just neutralize it before dumping by adding sodium bicarbonate ( Baking Soda ) till it stops bubbling or tests around 7 for PH. One more thing, try it with a small amount before doing a big batch. Other contamination could mess with the outcome. Also use safety glasses and being done out doors/ventilated is best
Did you contact NileRed at all? I bet he'd be happy to consult for a fellow youtuber!
wow you can see the lead crystals starting to try and form even with the dilute solution
I know this is too late but if you look into brewery jars called carboys they’re 5 gal glass jugs you can also buy a bubbler for it which is a rubber cork with a bit of water on top that allows gases to escape but nothing gets in
Hi college chemistry student, some info may be off.
the blue solution looks to probably be cuprous acetate from the copper jackets of the bullets.
That line that was forming appears to be the separation between the lead and zinc acetate with lead metal floating in between (lighter than lead acetate and heavier than the zinc acetate)
The orange mist that formed was probably a mix of iron and copper dissolving off the wire holder and inside of the baffles.
As for the white precipitate I don’t think I know at all why could have caused it other than maybe some weird reaction between an oxide layer on the lead balls
Cool experiment! Would love to see it tried again, maybe try filtering the precipitates with a coffee filter at the end too?
Would love to see a follow up vid with everything done correctly
epsom salts work as well to precipitate out the lead into lead sulfate.
Contact Nilered he can probably explain better. I think you electroplated your suppressor. Acidic solution and a few different metals. Hope your suppressor is ok
Regarding the suppressor solution I wouldn’t think you would get a lot of lead to accumulate on the zinc after the can is removed. Why? Bc your bullets are copper jacketed… the barrel is not exposed to lead unlike a 22 long rifle barrel or can.
If you ran no or partial copper jacketed bullets then I would assume you would get more lead from a suppressor dip as in that case the lead barring surface is in contact with the rifling instead of a copper jacket.
I use the dip to clean carbon off my muzzle breaks and the solution turns more dark blue and I assume that’s copper and carbon that has been dissolved.
I'd be very careful with that solution, it makes peroxyacetic acid which is quite a bit more powerful than the two base liquids. It will damage steel over time and possibly other more reactive metals.
Also add aluminum foil to the brown solution, it likely contains chromium in a dangerous form.
So cool to see NileRed casually mentioned in a gun channel.
*Hey I watched that one!*
Why wouldn’t you just leave the lead acetate solution in a container to evaporate into a crystalline solid? You could then measure the amount precisely and react it with sulphuric acid to make lead sulphate which isn’t water soluble. You could safely dispose of that in the garbage or dilute it into some concrete and dispose of it as patio stone lol
So just out of curiosity… when you have created the lead acetate solution just leave it outside and let it evaporate. Once it has evaporated add sulfuric acid to it and then it will turn it in to lead sulfate? Which is obviously safer I’m assuming. Then you can dispose of it?
I’ve had my suppressor for 6 years. It’s a 22 AAC Element. I just throw the stainless baffles into my wet tumbler and let it run all night. Sometimes I tumble the baffles with my brass. Keep in mine, I have to tumble them for a very long time, 12-24 hours. I don’t use the suppressor all the time because I don’t like cleaning it.
I found simple green in a steel pin tumbler for 24 hours worked awesome on carbon. Still had some stubborn stuff, but worked out.
@@luxordeathbed I’ll try that next.
@Shannon idk if the piston clean is similar to CLR but that’s what I have heard people using to clean there suppressors and muzzle brakes also barrels ?????? Idk maybe that might work for you
You can melt the lead zinc mix and the zinc will float on the lead so you can scrape it off.
I thought build up in suppressors was primarily carbon and other byproducts of combustion. I'd be curious if there was a maintenance schedule of cleaning with only the Piston Kleen (e.g. quarterly or monthly) that would keep things relatively gunk-free.
That's the plan, as of right now. Piston Kleen and a fresh layer of anti-sieze on threads every few range trips. Hopefully it will make this dip stuff unnecessary.
@@JohnnysReloadingBench this was a test i did 10+ years ago, to make the baffels easier to clean the next time, if the baffles are removable, heat them up to 150f ish and drop them in a jar of DOT 5 Silicone Brake Fluid over night. then just wipe them off and put them back in. the heat allows it to better "soak up" into the metal pores...
primers are made of lead fulminate from what i understand so that is where youre getting lead from and why you always see those warnings on ammo boxes and stuff
The white precipitate is lead oxide from the peroxide reacting.
You five gallon bucket idea will work but with a slight modification, you can’t add the zinc before or at the same time as the lead or the lead won’t (for the most part) dissolve and you will only form zinc acetate. You will need to add the lead/suppressor first. then, once you’ve dissolved all the lead you wanted to, you can add the zinc to make the solution “safer” ( I don’t actually know if zinc acetate is safer then lead acetate as both zinc and lead are Toxic metals, but I would assume it probably is, just like you said though don’t touch either with bare skin)
Good job , man
Call me crazy but it seems to be that lead would be the least or your worries. I would think carbon would be the majority of the build up In the suppressor. Right? The bullets are mostly copper and even if the backs were exposed lead it would still only be tiny flakes of lead in the suppressor.
I think it was a reaction with the brush…I guess it formed some type of oxide. It’s not just iron that can rust. Any type of oxide can be rust.
Not that it helps much but the blue color is due to copper 2 acetate. I don't believe it's toxic but it also isn't blue Kool aid. Lead acetate also used to be used to sweeten wine.
This was super informative man. Its really interesting
don't forget to neutralize the vinegar with a tea spoon of kitchen soda. iron sewage pipe will be eaten away by acidic stuff. and they are expensive to repair. 👌
and i guess those wire brush hair are copper. same stuff left behind when a fmj pass through the suppressor besides lead.
I watched the video twice, because the first time I didn't see where you did a cleaning with the suppressor in the solution with zinc at the same time. You only put zinc in the solution after the suppressor was taken out. What happens when you put the zinc in with the suppressor, or just lead balls if you don't have another suppresser to clean? Is the cleaning faster? Slower? No change? I clean my compensators with the peroxide/vinegar solution, but would like to see what happens with zinc added during the cleaning. Any chance you will make another video showing this?
Just saying, that probaly is iron acetate, same color and condition to this acetate production, the black stuff probaly is the iron returning to the metallic or iron oxide( II state probaly) forms.
There’s no real need to go to this method. Run the can hard (get the temp way up) that should self clean it. The dip is normally used on 22 cans that do get lead build up inside them. The only can I worry about cleaning, if you could call it that is my 22 can. My center fire cans I mag dump a few mags every so often an call it good. Most can benefit from having a build up inside, yes hard fact for the ocd crowd to under stand.
Once you get all the lead out of solution that blue acidic solution can be used to copper plate just about anything you can run a current through. You'll need an old school car battery charger (new ones have too many safeties...) and not a lot else. Hand tool rescue has done it a few times, he may have a video on making the copper solution and the process on using it to plate things. Judging by the depth of blue color it's not a lot of copper, I wouldn't expect great results but you could plate copper wire (for example) just to pull the copper out of solution
Vinegar and hydrogen peroxide is an etching material on metals
You should check out stingerworx suppressors. You can break it down to individual parts and get it clean without worrying about parts inside the can that are hard to get to.
Since there is more than just lead in the suppressor couldn't this have some other affects? Like there may be a small amount of copper in some form, and powder residue.