I love that we can have this conversation about what Black liberation means publicly because this movie exists. Both Chris & Carvell have good points. Critics have said they wanted to see more of Kilmonger too.
Exactly! Despite his "brokeness", Killmonger proved himself superior to the Wakandans in many, many ways. He was both the best and worst of both worlds. Best believe they're bringing him back!
Racist altright black movie about a black ethno state, isn't racist enough according to black racists. I should have expect the grotesque racists at Democracy Now to host a panel of black racists to discuss how unracist the racist film is.
I'm Black, Sixty one years of age, I read the original series as a child growing up in Detroit. It wasn't a black thing then, it was a Super hero thing. I wanted this brought to life just like the other Marvel characters that came before this one. Blacks didn't care about this character back then. We were burning America.
here we go it was not a black thing, ridiculous, Did you seem the movie, the sad part was that it attempted portray itself as a "black Thing, something that is was not
Rasheed Barnes- I honestly think he delved in way too deep about the premise of the movie. This is a fictional Marvel comic movie which actually had a message on both scopes. But ok.
Rasheed Barnes- Erik Killmonger WAS a part of the Wakanda Tribe through his pops. Instead of T Chaka taking him back, he left him behind. Killmonger was no thug from the streets, but a well educated mercenary who felt entitled to the heritage. This pretty much showed disconnect between African Natives & African Americans. Where oppression was instilled upon blacks thru slavery thru the 60s, but maintained to be proud. Somewhere n the late 70s throughout the 80s, we mostly became self loathing & angry. Now we're playing that game just to get scraps. Most African Natives looked @ most us as arrogant & ignorant about Africa. This is a feel good movie w a message on both sides. The premise of the movie is just like the premise of all Hollywood movies that depicts Africa as a poor savage nation. There r riches n Africa that can't keep thieves & colonizers away. The FICTIONAL country Wakanda had a resource that the world wanted, but didn't kno the location. Oh! & ur boy Lebron tried to use that, lonely black American villain while everyone else is from elsewhere. What about the 2 Americans that were royalty? Bassett & Whitaker. Again dude. Ur boy delved way too hard n2 to this 1. I say it's the crab n a barrel theory.
"Somewhere n the late 70s throughout the 80s, we mostly became self loathing & angry." Dude. This is why we probably shouldn't be having this discussion. That's nonsense and you have no data to back it up. I'll side with Christopher Lebron and Dr Jared Ball who studies propaganda for a living...oh, and Chadwick Boseman who says his character is the "enemy." th-cam.com/video/Dx26ZzUdYCQ/w-d-xo.html www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/2/28/17063218/chadwick-boseman-tchalla-enemy-black-panther
Rasheed Barnes- keep ur websites. It's not that serious. We're n 2 different generations. I'm better w face to face rather than keyboard. It's obvious u missed the point, buts that's kool. It's good that the young youth got a fictional hero. & hopefully Killmonger has a purpose in the next flick. Peace
we finally have a Black hero, who was introduced by The Fantastic 4 in the 60s. & now there's criticism about the nature of the film. how about there were messages on both sides? good goodness! we complain about not having enough black leading actors & when we do, they all have to be doctors, lawyers, or & drug dealers. fuckin sick of that shit personally. time 4 some change. I loved the movie & hope that it does the inevitable. I know enough not to put too much thought in a fiction movie. Wakanda 4ever!
We finally have a black hero who does not represent the aspirations of black people around the world when he has the power to do so, Anyone can have a black hero , but what does he represent except a capitulation to white liberalism.
The most popular Marvel characters are Hulk and Wolverine. I feel what is missing from this argument is that if you talk to marvel fans even the youngest they understand that Marvel comics always harp on misunderstood characters as heroes like the Xmen comics. Living in Philly I learned how quickly black youths identify with marvel characters and we have fun going "the movie was great but in the comics this this and this." It's interesting seeing a Professor miss what children understand quickly.
As someone who loves superhero movies, and is a person of color, I just want to say this. Black Panther is probably the best superhero movie staring a person of color. The last decent Black superhero movie (in my opinion) was Hancock, from 10 years ago, and was arguably the last really good film Will Smith was in until Suicide Squad (depending on how you feel about it), and the 1993 movie Meteor Man is a guilty pleasure movie to me (if you haven't seen it look it up). Other than that, there have not been many superhero films starring people of color, women, or LGBT prior to 2008, and many of which were mixed at best to just bad; Steel, Blankman, Spawn, Supergirl, Tank Girl, Catwoman. And, sad to say, racism will always be a factor in American society whether we like it or not, but with each generation, we can only hope racism dies down a little bit more than the generation before it. Regardless, Black Panther is still yet another smash hit by Marvel, and 1 that African Americans can relate to. Here's hoping that we see more great films staring people of color, women, and LGBT superheroes in the future.
Jesse Torres Hancock was a dumb movie. It took too long for him to become a hero. Meteor man is a silly comedy. The only other black superhero movies that were good were Blade 1 and 2.
Jesse Torres Suicide Squad was a piece of shit. The movie was badly edited. It has the cliche sky beam. It had a terrible villain. The joker was done badly. His relationship with Harley was nothing like it is in Batman animated series. Capt Boomerang barely uses his boomerangs. The movie is crap.
As a Non-American looking in from the outside, it scares me to see to see this kind of social racial hatred. This kind of idealism has gone to very bad places in history. American needs to stop staring at an ipod and pick up a book.
Swordinhand reading a book is what we do. Don’t pretend to know anything about blacks in America my family is from affluent black neighborhoods and make great money. Don’t assume what you see on TV is somehow true! Get a black friend and ask questions. I will be that person if you so wish.
So this Christopher Lebron dude had two things he didn't like about the film. Both rationalizations are hocus pocus nonsense. This was a fictional superhero film from the comics. And, the film was practically based and written from the comics' source material that spanked more than 50 years. T'Challa and Erik Killmonger are *COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS!!!!!* Now Coogler the director did take a few liberties with Killmonger's character and screen version, but nothing bizarre. What I see Mr. Lebron is that YOU are the one getting in our way with your own rationized agenda. You start with Black Panther as a great movie and a golden opportunity to show the world that we can come together and support our own and grow what we have to make our community AND the global community a more balanced, better represented place. Then, you go and grow from there. Nothing great ever happens overnight unless that seed that springs into a tree is planted first.
YOU ARE NONSENSE, WILL THIS OLD WORN OUT REFRAIN ABOUT NOTHING EVER COMES OVERNIGHT THE SAME THING SOUTHERSERS SAID ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AS IF WE ARE SUPPOSE TO WAIT TO SOMEONE ELSE DECIDES THE PACE AND TIME FOR OUR LIBERATION, WE ACCEPT THAT BECAUE WE DO NOT FEEL WE DESERVE ANY BETTER , SO SAD
Double Guitars it means nothing when the company that gives the movie it's tools was and is provided by a Corporation that continues to oppress poc and workers around the world (not to mention it's beginnings from a racist Nazi sympathizing owner) essentially americans are supporting this shitty Corp to continue. This movie is only seen as "progress" to middle and upper middle class black citizens. It's pathetic.
'' continues to oppress poc and workers'' We can have a conversation about that if you would like to provide proof please. The Nazi thing not even buying that for a second, th-cam.com/video/L90smU0SOcQ/w-d-xo.html and this th-cam.com/video/rHzcFa2mSjU/w-d-xo.html Why would a guy ''for'' the Nazi's make fun of them and belittle their ideals?
I don't know why such intense focus is put on this movie about a fictional/comic character. I've seen it, it has flaws like any first film for a comic character (it's not an origins story, but was clumsy like one). The best things about BP is that it's a brown super hero, women play a central role & are all strong, intelligent, interesting and that's not usually seen and the female characters were much better than most of the male characters e.g. Killmonger. I left unable to decide whether Michael B. Jordan didn't play the role well or maybe the writing for Killmonger was terrible. But I'm glad I saw it.
HE IS UNBEARABLE BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, IF YOU ONLY HAD ONE PERCENT OF HIS INTELLECT YOU WOULD BE ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET, BUT OF COURSE YOU DON'T
it was a great story, great acting totally positive, afro-american directors. writers, designers, actresses, actors, and awesome world wide success, these folks in the interview at least 2 out of the 3 are over intelectulizing the film, killmongers charactor is great, and he might be back. We are all African, the total representation of black folks was positive, even kilmonger, he wasn't a slave or pimp or pusher or a medea charactor he wasn't shuffling an saying yes massa no massa. So, power to the people, may this revolution continue to shine and be a major success. Right oN!
WorldBeat7 a racist story. A black king being protected and saved by a cia agent to fight a black man who sees his people being murdered marginalized and kept down. Black panther didn’t go after the corps or policy makers. He went after his own people
nah!! not! the film has been a success on all levels, your weak statement shows that you are afraid of success, your statement is total nonsense, did you even see the movie, anyway doesn't matter, the film is shaking up the world, and I say righT oN!
Most of the comments on here want to imagine something that is not here, and we are so hungry for something that speaks directly and forcefully to our history and comes up with a solution that we can feel affirms us as real human being deserving of full liberation on our terms that we want to see this movie as contributing to that and it SIMPLY DOES NOT!!! PERIOD. Some of you have the nerve to tell this man to sit down rather than listen to the truth, you are the one that needs to sit down. And know people might have known were he was coming from but his position was not affirmed or validated Period THAT IS THE REAL POINT. and if you did not see that white man as one of the heroes then you refuse to because you did not want to see it. It goes to show that most of us cannot expand our mines do accommodate any real idea or vision about what black liberation will really look like, no matter how you say you love blackness. HE IS RIGHT THIS IS NOT THE MOVIE WE DESERVE BUT UNFORTUNATELY WE WILL NOT GET THE MOVIE WE DESERVE UNTIL WE STOP ACCEPTING MOVIES WE DO NOT RESERVE AND HAVE THE SENSE TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!!!
The movie is called Black Panther. The main character is T'Challa. The story telling surrounds him dealing being a king of an African nation with its own specific problems and at a climax of a choice - isolationism or globalism. All aspects of the movie serve to tell that story. Trying to presence the Black American experience in this movie would have detracted from that point. Kilmonger serves up a perfect example of why isolationism is the wrong choice. That's why he's there. He was a character in this fantasy series created by Marvel that was no where near is nuanced as this character, so just in this retelling, they've redeemed this one dimensional character. This is an afrocentric narrative. It touched on aspects of police brutality, black lives matter, feminism, and a whole slew of other topics that help inform further the story but they didn't have to be explained or put front and center. That would have muddied the message and wasn't the point of the movie. However, their inclusion is beautiful, but their issue wasn't tackled. That's why we need more stories like this. One from the Black American afro-futuristic perspective, trying to make sense of our past for the future. One from a feminist perspective of African woman and their allies. There was a deleted scene where they made reference to a queer relationship that existed in the comics. I want another movie examining queerness in Africa and a separate one about queerness in the Black community. Those are different perspectives rife with hundreds of beautiful stories to tell. The one commenter made note that it seemed the movie is saying that Black people's greatest issue is getting in our own way, but his comments of this films short comings, to me, seem to do the very same thing. Expecting this movie to do everything right and satisfy everyone and not have anything to say is just nonsense. You're asking for perfection and that's not what art is. Sure, critique it, but I felt a lack of love and enjoyment for this cultural moment. I felt no joy from him. And a consistent issue I see when minority perspectives are showcased for the masses, they are so harshly picked apart. You didn't see this happening with Doctor Strange or Ant-Man. No film will be perfect, as with no art. You accept it, like you do people. You love it for what it is, understand its faults, and reconcile your differences internally. And, if it's not providing you with everything you're looking for, you are free to go out in the world and find what you're looking for. Or better yet, create it yourself.
The movie was a really mixed bag for me that had the effect of making very radical ethno-cultural statements about Afrocentricity while eliding and obscuring some of the more difficult political and economic questions that an uncolonized Afro-futurist utopia like Wakanda would imply. For example, what is Wakanda's workforce? Is it a communist type of society or a capitalist one where profit reigns? Kilmonger himself is a poor representation of black liberation, almost a caricature of Malcolm X who is exposed as a phony on a quest for revenge the moment he attains power. Would the West even accept aid from Wakanda if it meant threatening their capitalist systems where profit motives are placed above human wellness?
I think the movie made a mistake in not calling more attention to the military past of Killmonger. The movie asks what should Wakanda do with all it's power, but just how we don't ask why Radio Raheem had to die, it does not make the audience ask what the US has done with all of its power. Black people live the reality of that question, but white people can leave the theather without engaging with it.
Its a motivational fantasy movie using real institutional characters like the CIA that are not fantasy. Does the CIA operate in the way the fantasy depicts the CIA to operate in a fantastical situation with imaginary characters in an imaginary world?
All movies are fantasy - people dressing up a playing make believe. What's the point of this critique? It's called art. People look and examine and derive meaning and figure out how it applies to society.
what a bunch of nonsense! i had the first isssues of black panther in the mid sixties when it was a small mag, and very socially concious, you go enjoy your tottal lack of awareness!
Guido Arce The movie is political. It's fantasy world hinges on current political struggles in the US. If you don't understand that, you don't understand Ryan Coogler & what he's trying to do.
I don't know I think it would be pandering if every Black character in the movie was good and perfect. I think it's a good thing that the villain was Killmonger so that people who don't see Black people like themselves can see that we are all human and capable of doing anything from either end of the moral spectrum. It also did raise some very excellent points/questions about isolationism and not becoming as bad as your oppressors, This film had a lot of layers and it's great to see them do that in a comic book movie.
Double Guitars that doesn’t help right now. Blacks need to be seen as positive. They need to build up and be built up. It’s no good to see a progressive black person as a villain. It creates unconscious hatred
Vash Rein No I don't think so, I think it shows how people are nuanced that all of us different cultures and skin colours are still the same we are human beings. Aso Killmonger brought up points that were hard for some to recognize but had to be heard and showing it from his perspective makes the viewer understand his point of view, you feel empathy for him and get what he is saying. You wouldn't if that all came from a white character. In the end Wakanda wakes up to their own failings and they do better. They do it by not becoming as bad as their oppressors but being better than them but it took Killmonger for them to see it and that is why he was a brilliant character.
lol Isolationism IS the future, that's why the movie is a joke, 500,000 blacks are about to be kicked out of Italy, that's the real world have you seen Europe lately? Build Walls not Bridges(just the opposite of the movie's message) is Europe today and what the future holds for everyone, see Calais migrants, Hungary, Poland won't take a single black or Muslim refugee, neither will Japan in the Far East, nor Slovakia, Austria just elected a right wing anti-immigration President, Britain voted Brexit
Greg White oh please do fuck off I live in Europe and I love how multicultural my country (Ireland) is now. You should really look up Cheddar Man, you know how he got to the UK? Over land Bridges, the world was connected once and will be again. We are here because of people spreading out all around the world because we evolved, shared ideas, sometimes stole. Isolation is the exact opposite of how human beings work.
One of the two definitions: 1. The opposite of White Feminism. White Feminism is the kind of feminism that a lot of white women like, the kind that is about women empowerment but lets you still be racist. 2. She literally meant Black people that are feminist. Like, Black being an extra adjective.
And regular feminism does? Asking to be equal is intself a logical fallacy. No group in history came to power by asking and receiving it for a reason. If you wan't power you take it, if you can. If you can't then you never have it. What we have now in the west is white men in power allowing other groups to have certain rights. And one day those white men will fall to another group that group of men will dicate what the rights of other groups are.
Anyone looking for more Afrofuturism stories should check out my project that I hope will get the big screen Hollywood treatment soon. It's an action adventure set in a post-apocalypse where all forms of artistic expression have been outlawed, and a band of musical warriors led by a jazz guitarist must free humanity. Avantguardians.com
Is this discussion of a Marvel Comics movie supposed to be a political discussion? It's not a "black movie" . It's a Marvel Comics fantasy that has no empirical basis. If any 'politics' is to be gleaned from its 'cultural significance' the significance is that once again the capitalist ideological operative have workers subjected to a deliberate Red Herring -- once again pushing race politics. The politics of race is predicated upon bourgeois class interests which is reactionary and not revolutionary. I want to quote a Real natural hero of the real i.e. historical Black Panther, Fred Hampton on the bourgeois ideological bullshit now called "identity politics": Fred Hampton: "You know, a lot of people have hang-ups with the [Panther] Party because the Party talks about a class struggle. We say primarily that the priority of this struggle is class. That Marx and Lenin and Che Guevara and Mao Tse-tung and anybody else that has ever said or knew or practiced anything about revolution always said that a revolution is a class struggle. It was one class - the oppressed, and that other class - the oppressor. And it's got to be a universal fact. Those that don't admit to that are those that don't want to get involved in a revolution, because they know as long as they're dealing with a race thing, they'll never be involved in a revolution. . . . "A lot of people get the word revolution mixed up and they think revolutions a bad word. Revolution is nothing but like having a sore on your body and then you put something on that sore to cure that infection. I'm telling you that we're living in a sick society. We're involved in a society that produces criminals, thieves and robbers and rapers. Whenever you are in a society like that, that is a sick society. . . . "We're gonna organize and dedicate ourselves to revolutionary political power and teach ourselves the specific needs of resisting the power structure, arm ourselves, and we're gonna fight reactionary pigs with international proletarian revolution. That's what it has to be. . . . spartacus-educational.com/USAhamptonF.htm
Curiously, while watching this suggested videos include LOSING YOUR JOB TO ROBOTS ; a fear-feeding video with all characters in the thumbnail dressed in black armor much like the movie. Why aren't they wearing white? Silver? Gold? Is it so jobless people subconsciously fear people of color?
Pretty shit movie, like every other superhero movie. How does this movie help the working black family that works from 8-6? How does it help their children get an education? Corporations don't care about race; they will do anything--as long as it yields a profit.
![일상 속 기분 좋음 [Proto disco meme]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DwmEIaZ7XGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I love that we can have this conversation about what Black liberation means publicly because this movie exists. Both Chris & Carvell have good points. Critics have said they wanted to see more of Kilmonger too.
This is why I love Democracy Now! Thank you.
Totally disagree about Killmonger...great villain who represented yet another nuanced point of view in a film rife with them.
It wasn't like Kilmonger was a slave or a pimp. He played an excellent villain.
Exactly! Despite his "brokeness", Killmonger proved himself superior to the Wakandans in many, many ways. He was both the best and worst of both worlds. Best believe they're bringing him back!
Really, LOL
He was getting warmed up and they cut him short. That was a GREAT take at the end!
Racist altright black movie about a black ethno state, isn't racist enough according to black racists. I should have expect the grotesque racists at Democracy Now to host a panel of black racists to discuss how unracist the racist film is.
Great analysis by Christopher Lebron. He truly looks like a great intellectual. Thank You for inviting such great intellectual.
I'm Black, Sixty one years of age, I read the original series as a child growing up in Detroit. It wasn't a black thing then, it was a Super hero thing. I wanted this brought to life just like the other Marvel characters that came before this one. Blacks didn't care about this character back then. We were burning America.
here we go it was not a black thing, ridiculous, Did you seem the movie, the sad part was that it attempted portray itself as a "black Thing, something that is was not
Respect to Christopher Lebron.
Rasheed Barnes- I honestly think he delved in way too deep about the premise of the movie. This is a fictional Marvel comic movie which actually had a message on both scopes. But ok.
Dee Mir That's where we disagree. The conditions that made a Killmonger possible are very real.
Rasheed Barnes- Erik Killmonger WAS a part of the Wakanda Tribe through his pops. Instead of T Chaka taking him back, he left him behind. Killmonger was no thug from the streets, but a well educated mercenary who felt entitled to the heritage.
This pretty much showed disconnect between African Natives & African Americans. Where oppression was instilled upon blacks thru slavery thru the 60s, but maintained to be proud. Somewhere n the late 70s throughout the 80s, we mostly became self loathing & angry. Now we're playing that game just to get scraps. Most African Natives looked @ most us as arrogant & ignorant about Africa.
This is a feel good movie w a message on both sides. The premise of the movie is just like the premise of all Hollywood movies that depicts Africa as a poor savage nation. There r riches n Africa that can't keep thieves & colonizers away. The FICTIONAL country Wakanda had a resource that the world wanted, but didn't kno the location. Oh! & ur boy Lebron tried to use that, lonely black American villain while everyone else is from elsewhere. What about the 2 Americans that were royalty? Bassett & Whitaker.
Again dude. Ur boy delved way too hard n2 to this 1. I say it's the crab n a barrel theory.
"Somewhere n the late 70s throughout the 80s, we mostly became self loathing & angry." Dude. This is why we probably shouldn't be having this discussion. That's nonsense and you have no data to back it up. I'll side with Christopher Lebron and Dr Jared Ball who studies propaganda for a living...oh, and Chadwick Boseman who says his character is the "enemy."
th-cam.com/video/Dx26ZzUdYCQ/w-d-xo.html
www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/2/28/17063218/chadwick-boseman-tchalla-enemy-black-panther
Rasheed Barnes- keep ur websites. It's not that serious. We're n 2 different generations. I'm better w face to face rather than keyboard. It's obvious u missed the point, buts that's kool. It's good that the young youth got a fictional hero. & hopefully Killmonger has a purpose in the next flick. Peace
we finally have a Black hero, who was introduced by The Fantastic 4 in the 60s. & now there's criticism about the nature of the film. how about there were messages on both sides? good goodness! we complain about not having enough black leading actors & when we do, they all have to be doctors, lawyers, or & drug dealers. fuckin sick of that shit personally. time 4 some change. I loved the movie & hope that it does the inevitable. I know enough not to put too much thought in a fiction movie. Wakanda 4ever!
We finally have a black hero who does not represent the aspirations of black people around the world when he has the power to do so, Anyone can have a black hero , but what does he represent except a capitulation to white liberalism.
The most popular Marvel characters are Hulk and Wolverine. I feel what is missing from this argument is that if you talk to marvel fans even the youngest they understand that Marvel comics always harp on misunderstood characters as heroes like the Xmen comics. Living in Philly I learned how quickly black youths identify with marvel characters and we have fun going "the movie was great but in the comics this this and this." It's interesting seeing a Professor miss what children understand quickly.
Thanks for this discussion! Addresses a lot of my own concerns about this landmark film..
"landmark" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😋
I love my blackness and my beautiful black people. Dude go sit down have several seats.
I do not think you really love your blackness and you are very defensive which is suspect. He hit a nerve and you reacted, LOL
As someone who loves superhero movies, and is a person of color, I just want to say this. Black Panther is probably the best superhero movie staring a person of color. The last decent Black superhero movie (in my opinion) was Hancock, from 10 years ago, and was arguably the last really good film Will Smith was in until Suicide Squad (depending on how you feel about it), and the 1993 movie Meteor Man is a guilty pleasure movie to me (if you haven't seen it look it up). Other than that, there have not been many superhero films starring people of color, women, or LGBT prior to 2008, and many of which were mixed at best to just bad; Steel, Blankman, Spawn, Supergirl, Tank Girl, Catwoman. And, sad to say, racism will always be a factor in American society whether we like it or not, but with each generation, we can only hope racism dies down a little bit more than the generation before it. Regardless, Black Panther is still yet another smash hit by Marvel, and 1 that African Americans can relate to. Here's hoping that we see more great films staring people of color, women, and LGBT superheroes in the future.
Jesse Torres it was rqcist against blacks
Meteor Man was fun
Jesse Torres Hancock was a dumb movie. It took too long for him to become a hero. Meteor man is a silly comedy. The only other black superhero movies that were good were Blade 1 and 2.
Jesse Torres Suicide Squad was a piece of shit. The movie was badly edited. It has the cliche sky beam. It had a terrible villain. The joker was done badly. His relationship with Harley was nothing like it is in Batman animated series. Capt Boomerang barely uses his boomerangs. The movie is crap.
Jesse Torres Watch the animated film Batman Arkham Assault or Assault on Arkham which is a real Suicide Squad film that does the team correctly.
As a Non-American looking in from the outside, it scares me to see to see this kind of social racial hatred. This kind of idealism has gone to very bad places in history. American needs to stop staring at an ipod and pick up a book.
Swordinhand ..I couldn't read your comment in a book though
then learn to read. history isn't blog.
Swordinhand reading a book is what we do. Don’t pretend to know anything about blacks in America my family is from affluent black neighborhoods and make great money. Don’t assume what you see on TV is somehow true! Get a black friend and ask questions. I will be that person if you so wish.
So this Christopher Lebron dude had two things he didn't like about the film. Both rationalizations are hocus pocus nonsense. This was a fictional superhero film from the comics. And, the film was practically based and written from the comics' source material that spanked more than 50 years. T'Challa and Erik Killmonger are *COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS!!!!!* Now Coogler the director did take a few liberties with Killmonger's character and screen version, but nothing bizarre. What I see Mr. Lebron is that YOU are the one getting in our way with your own rationized agenda. You start with Black Panther as a great movie and a golden opportunity to show the world that we can come together and support our own and grow what we have to make our community AND the global community a more balanced, better represented place. Then, you go and grow from there. Nothing great ever happens overnight unless that seed that springs into a tree is planted first.
YOU ARE NONSENSE, WILL THIS OLD WORN OUT REFRAIN ABOUT NOTHING EVER COMES OVERNIGHT THE SAME THING SOUTHERSERS SAID ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AS IF WE ARE SUPPOSE TO WAIT TO SOMEONE ELSE DECIDES THE PACE AND TIME FOR OUR LIBERATION, WE ACCEPT THAT BECAUE WE DO NOT FEEL WE DESERVE ANY BETTER , SO SAD
The movie was made by Disney, just saying....
So?
Double Guitars it means nothing when the company that gives the movie it's tools was and is provided by a Corporation that continues to oppress poc and workers around the world (not to mention it's beginnings from a racist Nazi sympathizing owner) essentially americans are supporting this shitty Corp to continue. This movie is only seen as "progress" to middle and upper middle class black citizens. It's pathetic.
so what!
'' continues to oppress poc and workers'' We can have a conversation about that if you would like to provide proof please. The Nazi thing not even buying that for a second, th-cam.com/video/L90smU0SOcQ/w-d-xo.html and this th-cam.com/video/rHzcFa2mSjU/w-d-xo.html Why would a guy ''for'' the Nazi's make fun of them and belittle their ideals?
So?
I don't know why such intense focus is put on this movie about a fictional/comic character. I've seen it, it has flaws like any first film for a comic character (it's not an origins story, but was clumsy like one). The best things about BP is that it's a brown super hero, women play a central role & are all strong, intelligent, interesting and that's not usually seen and the female characters were much better than most of the male characters e.g. Killmonger. I left unable to decide whether Michael B. Jordan didn't play the role well or maybe the writing for Killmonger was terrible. But I'm glad I saw it.
The dude, LeBron, is unbearable. He focus less on Black Panther, and more on Tyler Perry films.
HE IS UNBEARABLE BECAUSE YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH, IF YOU ONLY HAD ONE PERCENT OF HIS INTELLECT YOU WOULD BE ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET, BUT OF COURSE YOU DON'T
I grew up with plenty of kids that I could see saying "could we break it up and sell it".
Nationalism and racism is portrayed in this movie.
it was a great story, great acting totally positive, afro-american directors. writers, designers, actresses, actors, and awesome world wide success, these folks in the interview at least 2 out of the 3 are over intelectulizing the film, killmongers charactor is great, and he might be back. We are all African, the total representation of black folks was positive, even kilmonger, he wasn't a slave or pimp or pusher or a medea charactor he wasn't shuffling an saying yes massa no massa. So, power to the people, may this revolution continue to shine and be a major success. Right oN!
WorldBeat7 a racist story. A black king being protected and saved by a cia agent to fight a black man who sees his people being murdered marginalized and kept down. Black panther didn’t go after the corps or policy makers. He went after his own people
WorldBeat7 and even more awesome? It was created by white Jews.
Real Africa: blacks slaughtering white farmers in South Africa, 5 million dead in the Congo, 800,000 slaughtered in Rwanda 1994
Greg White the effects of imperialism
nah!! not! the film has been a success on all levels, your weak statement shows that you are afraid of success, your statement is total nonsense, did you even see the movie, anyway doesn't matter, the film is shaking up the world, and I say righT oN!
Interesting Points
Most of the comments on here want to imagine something that is not here, and we are so hungry for something that speaks directly and forcefully to our history and comes up with a solution that we can feel affirms us as real human being deserving of full liberation on our terms that we want to see this movie as contributing to that and it SIMPLY DOES NOT!!! PERIOD. Some of you have the nerve to tell this man to sit down rather than listen to the truth, you are the one that needs to sit down. And know people might have known were he was coming from but his position was not affirmed or validated Period THAT IS THE REAL POINT. and if you did not see that white man as one of the heroes then you refuse to because you did not want to see it. It goes to show that most of us cannot expand our mines do accommodate any real idea or vision about what black liberation will really look like, no matter how you say you love blackness. HE IS RIGHT THIS IS NOT THE MOVIE WE DESERVE BUT UNFORTUNATELY WE WILL NOT GET THE MOVIE WE DESERVE UNTIL WE STOP ACCEPTING MOVIES WE DO NOT RESERVE AND HAVE THE SENSE TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!!!!
Smh it’s a movie!
The movie is called Black Panther. The main character is T'Challa. The story telling surrounds him dealing being a king of an African nation with its own specific problems and at a climax of a choice - isolationism or globalism. All aspects of the movie serve to tell that story. Trying to presence the Black American experience in this movie would have detracted from that point.
Kilmonger serves up a perfect example of why isolationism is the wrong choice. That's why he's there. He was a character in this fantasy series created by Marvel that was no where near is nuanced as this character, so just in this retelling, they've redeemed this one dimensional character.
This is an afrocentric narrative. It touched on aspects of police brutality, black lives matter, feminism, and a whole slew of other topics that help inform further the story but they didn't have to be explained or put front and center. That would have muddied the message and wasn't the point of the movie. However, their inclusion is beautiful, but their issue wasn't tackled. That's why we need more stories like this. One from the Black American afro-futuristic perspective, trying to make sense of our past for the future. One from a feminist perspective of African woman and their allies. There was a deleted scene where they made reference to a queer relationship that existed in the comics. I want another movie examining queerness in Africa and a separate one about queerness in the Black community. Those are different perspectives rife with hundreds of beautiful stories to tell.
The one commenter made note that it seemed the movie is saying that Black people's greatest issue is getting in our own way, but his comments of this films short comings, to me, seem to do the very same thing. Expecting this movie to do everything right and satisfy everyone and not have anything to say is just nonsense. You're asking for perfection and that's not what art is. Sure, critique it, but I felt a lack of love and enjoyment for this cultural moment. I felt no joy from him. And a consistent issue I see when minority perspectives are showcased for the masses, they are so harshly picked apart. You didn't see this happening with Doctor Strange or Ant-Man.
No film will be perfect, as with no art. You accept it, like you do people. You love it for what it is, understand its faults, and reconcile your differences internally. And, if it's not providing you with everything you're looking for, you are free to go out in the world and find what you're looking for. Or better yet, create it yourself.
Representation? The film's cast is 99% black!
Yea and every other film out there is 99% white so get over yourself.
I don't think so.
Well it's a fact so it doesn't really matter what you ''think''
@@fabrizio483 cry about it
You sure you want to use futurism as your ideal? Wasn't that the precursor to fascist Italy? hmmm afrofuturism? ok buddy
The movie was a really mixed bag for me that had the effect of making very radical ethno-cultural statements about Afrocentricity while eliding and obscuring some of the more difficult political and economic questions that an uncolonized Afro-futurist utopia like Wakanda would imply. For example, what is Wakanda's workforce? Is it a communist type of society or a capitalist one where profit reigns? Kilmonger himself is a poor representation of black liberation, almost a caricature of Malcolm X who is exposed as a phony on a quest for revenge the moment he attains power. Would the West even accept aid from Wakanda if it meant threatening their capitalist systems where profit motives are placed above human wellness?
Good interview its only after it made me think of how negatively we portrayed in films
Unfortunately,nowadays the films are copying the reality of life.
I think the movie made a mistake in not calling more attention to the military past of Killmonger.
The movie asks what should Wakanda do with all it's power, but just how we don't ask why Radio Raheem had to die, it does not make the audience ask what the US has done with all of its power.
Black people live the reality of that question, but white people can leave the theather without engaging with it.
Its a motivational fantasy movie using real institutional characters like the CIA that are not fantasy. Does the CIA operate in the way the fantasy depicts the CIA to operate in a fantastical situation with imaginary characters in an imaginary world?
OMG, now it's Blacks vs Brown. Keep the nuts off your show. It's just a movie.
It's a fantasy movie. The only thing it defines, is how gullible people are to "culture" created by corporations. Enjoy!!
All movies are fantasy - people dressing up a playing make believe. What's the point of this critique? It's called art. People look and examine and derive meaning and figure out how it applies to society.
You missed the whole point where this fake bit of "culture" isn't actually created by Blacks, it's created by Marvel. Keep not telling the difference.
It sounds like you don't have a point.
what a bunch of nonsense! i had the first isssues of black panther in the mid sixties when it was a small mag, and very socially concious, you go enjoy your tottal lack of awareness!
This is both fantasy and culture
this is soooo stupid, why is people trying to politized this movie, cant believe we are losing time on this
Guido Arce The movie is political. It's fantasy world hinges on current political struggles in the US. If you don't understand that, you don't understand Ryan Coogler & what he's trying to do.
Wasn't Killmonger Wakandan though?
I don't know I think it would be pandering if every Black character in the movie was good and perfect. I think it's a good thing that the villain was Killmonger so that people who don't see Black people like themselves can see that we are all human and capable of doing anything from either end of the moral spectrum. It also did raise some very excellent points/questions about isolationism and not becoming as bad as your oppressors, This film had a lot of layers and it's great to see them do that in a comic book movie.
Double Guitars that doesn’t help right now. Blacks need to be seen as positive. They need to build up and be built up. It’s no good to see a progressive black person as a villain. It creates unconscious hatred
Vash Rein No I don't think so, I think it shows how people are nuanced that all of us different cultures and skin colours are still the same we are human beings. Aso Killmonger brought up points that were hard for some to recognize but had to be heard and showing it from his perspective makes the viewer understand his point of view, you feel empathy for him and get what he is saying. You wouldn't if that all came from a white character. In the end Wakanda wakes up to their own failings and they do better. They do it by not becoming as bad as their oppressors but being better than them but it took Killmonger for them to see it and that is why he was a brilliant character.
lol Isolationism IS the future, that's why the movie is a joke, 500,000 blacks are about to be kicked out of Italy, that's the real world have you seen Europe lately? Build Walls not Bridges(just the opposite of the movie's message) is Europe today and what the future holds for everyone, see Calais migrants, Hungary, Poland won't take a single black or Muslim refugee, neither will Japan in the Far East, nor Slovakia, Austria just elected a right wing anti-immigration President, Britain voted Brexit
Greg White oh please do fuck off I live in Europe and I love how multicultural my country (Ireland) is now. You should really look up Cheddar Man, you know how he got to the UK? Over land Bridges, the world was connected once and will be again. We are here because of people spreading out all around the world because we evolved, shared ideas, sometimes stole. Isolation is the exact opposite of how human beings work.
Greg White Do you want me to list all the terrible things happening in America right now would that help you at all...
It's from the comic book..
What is Black Feminism? The concept doesn’t make sense to me.
Baderinwa Fola agreed. These black comnentators are doing way too much.
One of the two definitions:
1. The opposite of White Feminism. White Feminism is the kind of feminism that a lot of white women like, the kind that is about women empowerment but lets you still be racist.
2. She literally meant Black people that are feminist. Like, Black being an extra adjective.
Feminism is a female supremacist ideology. “Black” feminism is female supremacy as it pertains to “black” females.
Black feminists hate white people.
And regular feminism does? Asking to be equal is intself a logical fallacy.
No group in history came to power by asking and receiving it for a reason. If you wan't power you take it, if you can. If you can't then you never have it.
What we have now in the west is white men in power allowing other groups to have certain rights.
And one day those white men will fall to another group that group of men will dicate what the rights of other groups are.
Anyone looking for more Afrofuturism stories should check out my project that I hope will get the big screen Hollywood treatment soon. It's an action adventure set in a post-apocalypse where all forms of artistic expression have been outlawed, and a band of musical warriors led by a jazz guitarist must free humanity. Avantguardians.com
it's a fucking movie..
Is this discussion of a Marvel Comics movie supposed to be a political discussion? It's not a "black movie" . It's a Marvel Comics fantasy that has no empirical basis. If any 'politics' is to be gleaned from its 'cultural significance' the significance is that once again the capitalist ideological operative have workers subjected to a deliberate Red Herring -- once again pushing race politics. The politics of race is predicated upon bourgeois class interests which is reactionary and not revolutionary. I want to quote a Real natural hero of the real i.e. historical Black Panther, Fred Hampton on the bourgeois ideological bullshit now called "identity politics":
Fred Hampton: "You know, a lot of people have hang-ups with the [Panther] Party because the Party talks about a class struggle. We say primarily that the priority of this struggle is class. That Marx and Lenin and Che Guevara and Mao Tse-tung and anybody else that has ever said or knew or practiced anything about revolution always said that a revolution is a class struggle. It was one class - the oppressed, and that other class - the oppressor. And it's got to be a universal fact. Those that don't admit to that are those that don't want to get involved in a revolution, because they know as long as they're dealing with a race thing, they'll never be involved in a revolution. . . .
"A lot of people get the word revolution mixed up and they think revolutions a bad word. Revolution is nothing but like having a sore on your body and then you put something on that sore to cure that infection. I'm telling you that we're living in a sick society. We're involved in a society that produces criminals, thieves and robbers and rapers. Whenever you are in a society like that, that is a sick society. . . .
"We're gonna organize and dedicate ourselves to revolutionary political power and teach ourselves the specific needs of resisting the power structure, arm ourselves, and we're gonna fight reactionary pigs with international proletarian revolution. That's what it has to be. . . . spartacus-educational.com/USAhamptonF.htm
Curiously, while watching this suggested videos include LOSING YOUR JOB TO ROBOTS ; a fear-feeding video with all characters in the thumbnail dressed in black armor much like the movie. Why aren't they wearing white? Silver? Gold? Is it so jobless people subconsciously fear people of color?
Ugh
A serious discussion about comic book characters,....LOL
So no real issues are covered in comic books?
Pretty shit movie, like every other superhero movie. How does this movie help the working black family that works from 8-6? How does it help their children get an education? Corporations don't care about race; they will do anything--as long as it yields a profit.
Manchu Ratt The real question is, why are you asking these questions referring to a movie? They’re movies people?
Stay mad
Kangs☻🍉☝️
Cave Kangs
Caves are still turned into high tech houses.
But still eating people and living in huts in 2018
smh