Web Special: Extended Discussion on “Black Panther” & Why Wakanda Matters
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- democracynow.org - We host an extended web-only roundtable with three guests: Christopher Lebron, a professor at Johns Hopkins University who recently wrote “Black Panther Is Not the Film We Deserve”; Robyn C. Spencer, a professor at Lehman College, who wrote “Black Feminist Meditations on the Women of Wakanda”; and Carvell Wallace, author of The New York Times Magazine story “Why Black Panther Is a Defining Moment for Black America.”
Democracy Now! is an independent global news hour that airs weekdays on nearly 1,400 TV and radio stations Monday through Friday. Watch our livestream 8-9AM ET: democracynow.org
Please consider supporting independent media by making a donation to Democracy Now! today: democracynow.o...
FOLLOW DEMOCRACY NOW! ONLINE:
Facebook: / democracynow
Twitter: / democracynow
TH-cam: / democracynow
SoundCloud: / democracynow
Daily Email: democracynow.o...
Google+: plus.google.co...
Instagram: / democracynow
Tumblr: / democracynow
Pinterest: / democracynow
iTunes: itunes.apple.c...
TuneIn: tunein.com/radi...
Stitcher Radio: www.stitcher.co...
![โรงเรียนห้ามรัก โดนจับได้ตาย...!! [เอิร์นไดเม่]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4u02Sbr556Q/mqdefault.jpg)
The alt right in the comment section are going crazy. I love this. Some white people are really insecure. It is really a mental health issue
Thank you for this interview, this is amazing!
Fantastic dialogue. Many great points raised. Hoping to show it to my IB students after our viewing of the film as we discuss various reviews from the literary community.
Great interview! One of the best I've seen on it.
I don't want this movie connected to black panther party smh. Just let it be good black fantasy/super hero. It's a comic book series certain things are in this movie because they have to be like agent ROSS!
This movie, the title, is inexplicably connecter to the original BPP because the comic was conceived DURING the Black Power Movement.
"they were fighting on an underground railroad." Nice observation! I caught that but didn't think much of it initially.
Now this is what I call looking into shit too deep. Black Panther is fictional folks.
agreed!
Why can’t someone black be the interviewer..
Okoye Forever
To me, the reason Black Panther coming to the forefront is so impactful is because, though fiction, superheroes have been a staple driving force in people's youth and sometime even passed that. The lack of a successful black or brown hero has had an impact as generation after generation grew up next peers who looked up to Superman and Batman. Though black and brown heroes have exsisted for quite awhile they have never been placed on the forefront for long. Comic fans knew and followed them for years but the industry never really pushed creative revenue into merchandise and film, which never gave them the opportunity to reach past their readers.
Long fact: The Black Panther names for the hero and movement were not referencing each other but both got their name from Stokely Carmichael's Alabama party, Lowndes Co. Freedom Organization (LCFO). This party ran against a white supremacist party one year primer to the both the hero's and movement debut. It was law, due to the record low literacy rate, that parties had to adopt a clear and distinct icon to place in the ballot. The LCFO adopt theirs from predominantly black Clark College's mascot; the panther. They then soon became recognized as the Black Panther Party. Bobby seale and Huey P Newton later adopted the name and seal for their movement. Black Panther, in the comics, was already in the works under the name Coal Tiger. When the New York Times ran an article about the LCFO's efforts, Lee and Kirby decided Coal Tiger would debut under a different name in Fantastic Four #52.
And WELL'WELL in just about 34:24 minutes of this morning "CLASSIC INTERVIEW" I'm just saying in my opinion thank you so much for this very interesting information/interviews.(is/was uploaded on March 1,2018)
You do know Black Panther is fictional entertainment, right?
who doesn't?
Who are you talking to?
RIP, Chadwick boseman
What is the purpose of this discussion? This was a great fictional (some truth to it also) movie. Why are they dictating this movie and comparing it to the Black Panther Group? Judging this movie is judging Ryan Coogler, who wrote the many parts of this movie, which was approved by Marvel. I can't watch anymore. Just leave it alone smh..
The intellectual masturbation by these academics is at best,....Academic. Due to the fact that all these characters are decades old and this is all a comic book movie and part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I see many of the themes they are addressing but they are overthinking several of the points the movie touches on. I am a black American military Veteran and i can identify with Killmonger,.but i dont confuse his pain and ideas with his methods. Angry insecure people over identifying with Killmonger forget he killed the one black women whom supported him AND destroyed the heart shaped herbs which are the source of the Black Panther super powers,..this could be viewed as a lack of respect for African tradition .but really in truth,. its just a bad guy being a bad guy and a movie villain being villainous via selfishness and fear of being challenged,..no more,.no less. There is no real connection between fictional Wakanda and so-called White Guilt ( mainly because white people dont feel guilty)LoL! The much talked about line at the end of the movie concerning ancestors jumping from ships is INCREDIBLE but it also is meant to show the loss Killmonger represents as a person. Meaning had he agreed to accept medical treatment he could have been a powerful ally! Yet,..through his anger he chose to abandon his people and his struggle through death. And for gods sake find comentators who are more familiar with the source material next time! Everett Ross is a very old Marvel character and he was in the previous movie,...STFU complaining about him like hes some symbolic CIA subliminal message. Thats like watching a new JJ Abrham's Star Trek movie and complaining about the token black women when Lt Uhura was a main character in the original Star Trek LoL! They have all these damn degrees and write all these intellectual articles but dont understand the characters and structure of the MCU. This discussion was In the end,.as a black american and long time comic book reader i realize that many people of color have been without ANY major film representation to this magnitude for so long that we as a people almost dont know how to react or even what the fuck to think. Look at the film as a good first step!!!!
Word.
Yeah, actually I'd gotten that sense about Killmonger's end as well. It was tragic that he chose death over surrender, but he assumed it could only mean prison and the "soft torture" of being helpless and guilty and couldn't mean actual justice and rehabilitation.
And he was wrong.
But of course there's also pride. Not surrendering means not having to face the anger of the Dorae for executing one of them. Not surrenduring means not risking seeing Wakanda as a nation full of entirely normal people just doing their daily and not necessarily at all opposed to helping the rest of the world.
Killmonger was a tragic villain, and a damn good story, but the villainy part forms the ultimate verdict on the man and his choices. He wanted the right things but he _had_ to get them the wrong way; It's fitting T'challa takes those lessons and uses them through a much more just frame of mind.
And while I want to challenge what you've said about White Guiltlessness I can't, because at least in my own case you're right.
Let's get it right out in the open: I'm a _Jew_ . And being a _Jew_ comes with a lot of shit just waiting to fuck with me. The president dog-whistling to nazis isn't good news for anyone, but it's especially fucking bad for _Jews_ .
And being a Jew means carrying some part of the burden of the idea of Israel. It's not a commonly concieved parallel, but spend a sec considering Israel as being conceptually similar to Wakanda and things like Okoye's unflinching defense of her kingdom and her king becomes incredibly morally sticky. I am not a Zionist and this shit Israel does to the Palestinians makes me sick, but I own some flake of it all the same.
There's a lot more going on that I won't bore you with, but for all the parallels that come with being reactively hated between blacks and Jews there are many formidable differences, and two of the biggest is I don't have "the void;" I have some idea where I'm from for however little value I assign to it, and the other is that issue of White Guilt.
It routinely sucks to be me, I'm a poverty-class asshole like most others, and it surely routinely sucks to be Jewish, and as a consequence I don't have much White Guilt. I can somewhat intellectually rationalize that I should, but my great-grandparents emigrated in the 1920's into the labor sector, did all that immigrant labor sector work, got shit on pretty routinely for being Polish and Jewish, had Boomer kids, and eventually me.
I do profit extremely indirectly from being born into a country that profited very handily from the misery and deaths of slaves, and viscerally it's hard to square that I "personally" owe some kind of debt that extends back well before the lives of my american ancestors and that is greater than the basic broke-ass-class realities of being poor in the United States.
(Incidentally I joined up with the US Army but washed out in Basic so I can't call myself a vet)
So you're not wrong. I do support reparations movements, I do believe there is a collective conscience cleansing that's overdue and that this should come in addition to the general unfucking of the lives of the poor of this nation, but do I feel White Guilt?
Nope. I don't have room for it along side all the rest of the mess.
Your reply is fascinating and your tone is respectful and much appreciated. Im sure we will overcome the Trumpism which have seemingly swept not just the US but the globe. Understand however that these hateful feelings and thinking were always there,..the Obama inauguration really was the start of it resurfacing and Trumps approval of neo-nazi as "good people" is the culmination of something most white liberals and progressives thought long eradicated. The good side is that we can prepare ourselves for this fight in better ways then Kllmonger LoL! And combine the most wise portions of both the Malcom-Killmonger and the MLK-T'Challa strategies in order to get the job done. Im sure there will be times when arming portions of the populace into militias might be the best idea,..but that will be for competent leadership with accurate actionable intel to have to decide ( and it wont hardly be very often,.truth be told) Ghandi and MLK got a lot done with as much sacrifice and much more self-control and where able to shift overall sympathy in their favor with their tactics,.which is why i was disappointed to hear Banner say otherwise. revolutions require a whole lot of money and resources that few have and even fewer understand that! Trainging,logistics, planning, operations, mobility, supplies, leadership and structure are what it takes to win a war and a revolution is just that,.warfare! I think that is the real lesson of Killmonger. Pleae keep fighting the god fight,..im in rome italy as a expat veteran film student working an internship about Sephardic jews displaced to Rome from Libya for a year now,.,.so I have just the slightest (and only the slightest) insight into what your saying, A diaspora is a diaspora is a Diaspora
Thank you, Terry! I see so many people praising Killmonger (which I understand), but I felt like Nakia was the real hero. She didn't even take anyone else's life in the film and wanted Wakanda to give back to others near and far.
I do like that Killmonger was portrayed as complex.
terry vick this is probably the most insightful critique of the critiques I have read so far! You SAW and understood the killmonger figure in all of his flaws and brilliance like I have never seen! You put my thoughts into words about that character. I felt his willingness to have death instead of a chance at being an ally was rather selfish, but I also understood his need for that path.
Suggestion and this is just a suggestion. Since we those forced into the classification of black. We have to be able to deconstruct blackness in a way where we are able to be empathetic to those that disagree with our points of view. Black Panther has heighten the illusion that black people have an monolith view. There are various disagreements regarding this film which speaks to your level of disenfranchisement within our group. This is healthy by the way. Some of us see the Black Feminism in the movie. Some of us see the African American vs. Continental African discussion in this movie. Some of us see the Classism Bougie vs. The rest of us. Its very challenging to create a movie that hit all of these points but Ryan was able to do this in a form of an Marvel movie. Just Genius. Anyway these victims kept it above the belt and shared constructive information.
Professor Chrisopher by brother, u and other black people whose critic is that whites created Black Panther, I'd say u are wrong. Answer me this. If someone take your real life experiences, condition, and enviroment and expand on these distinctive elements using their own imagination to tell a fictional story, can one say the story itself sprang from their own imagination or is it true that inspired by such an such events must preceed their story in the credits? For example, vibranium doesn't exist as far as we know, but we know most of the strategic metals and other minerals exist in Africa and know where else. If I wa s making a movie called "The Material" where a alien material was found on earth which attracts colonizers where on earth would fit the best description? I think everyone knows the answer.
After seeing this movie, the first time, I was hopeful that the themes, images, symbolism and layers presented would bring about substantive dialogue surrounding the issues we face as a global family.
That being said, aside from some of the initial reactions of younger viewers, this round table fell flat. I believe that within the confines and context of this film (a marvel superhero movie), Black Panther was a beautiful representation of our diasporic brilliance, potential, love, diversity and creativity, with empowering inflections of fantasy and real world issues which sorely need to be addressed.
I could care less about tapping into the white imagination. Those who get it, get it, and those who don’t will remain comfortable within the trenches of their cognitive dissonance.
Let’s talk about how we can make the Wakandan mindset a reality and begin spreading that love and responsibility around the planet.
7:45
real black panther superheroes:
(?) Sikru Dnga (?)
Mumia Abu-Jamal
Good discussion but too analytical for a marvel movie. The proffesor is a bit contrary. I agree with Robin. No need to elevate STEM studies 74% of stem graduates in America do not get jobs in their field. They are working in supermarkets. Outsourcing has taken over.
It's a movie!!!
so evn if 'this type of box-office-hype' was about to simply 'proof a placebo effect ..just make 'the most of it, i guess : P
It's hope, man.
Right now white students are slapping the shit out of the american arms industry and while that's not as poetically perfect as all the minorities every murdered by the political-industrial arms complex and it's proxies it is still actually hot saucy and fucking real _justice_ .
The first thing the people who make hate win need is for their intended victims to lose hope. Black Panther is a flawed product just by virtue of being a product, but it's still real fucking _hope_ .
There's an essay in the video "Really That Good: Transformers the Movie" that sums out what I'm talking about very effectively; I suggest everyone who values human life try that.
This movie is detouring blacks from concentrating on the fight for rights!
I Wonder if this was the kind of conversations that Star Track had when it came out. of course, there was no black people, well maybe one. I am a long time Black Panther fan. Yes what happened was created by Stanley and Jack Kirby
Swong lake
ok
Just another money making movie for the moguls.
Just another Russian ghost account with no history, no content, and no profile.
Beretta249
Truth does not need 2 b validated.
Truth, OFTEN don't cum from folkz dressed n xpensive Brookz Bros. suitz.
DEAL WIT IT!
Yes it is another money making movie - and investors will make money from the movie - that is what the movie business is about. Actors are held in great esteem when a movie is a blockbuster and a success at the box office. It is a great measurement of the popularity of the movie. And the box office success of this movie ensures that these actors and directors will get more work in the future. This is the movie business... but one thing that you fail to understand. Why is this a great money making movie? Because the characters are powerful and a huge number of people identify with the characters in the movie. And people are voting in a sorts... each ticket bought is a person voting to support in the message of this movie... and there are so many young people that are giving their support globally... not just people of brown skin... but people of pink skin (like me) and white skin people - that can believe in and respect the heroes of the movie... not because they are of african descent - but because they are heros. So this is not just another money making movie for the moguls... it is people paying money to see the movie and people all over the world - falling in love with the heros of this movie.
It only matters in your delusion.
Bogus movie.