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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ย. 2023
- In this episode Vaatividya schools me on the flame.
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But the thing with the Chaos flame is that it doesn't intend to rebuild or recreate anything, it wants everything destroyed and returned to a state of oneness meaning no life, no individuality, no thinking.
Ya I had that way, way wrong, apparently. 😅
It's memed on as the "Evangelion" ending for a reason. You don't just kill everything, you melt it all together into a single entity, including the tree.
@FerunaLutelou I should probably watch Evangelion to get the reference.... Been on my watch list for years.
Yes as the entire rebirth concept is portrayed in the form of the scarlet rot, and the destruction, however is required to be a slow burn, not an instant obliteration of all that divides and distinguishes. There is a reason why there isn’t a current vassal for the three fingers only maddened people and spirits that live on in other bodies.
Which is a good thing, if all that exists in the world is suffering. This idea that some small amount of possible happiness or beauty (like that bullshit Melina spews at you) is incredibly privileged, toxic positivity. The Lands Between contain nothing but suffering, and the Frenzied Flame ending is the ONLY ending that ends the suffering.
The way I interpreted Shabriri's motive was that after he'd seen the sad state of the Lands Between, he decided that saving it was either impossible or not worth the effort. So the best course of action in his eyes, was to put an end to everything.
To provoke the end of the world, he wanted the Frenzied Flame to take hold of most of the Lands Between... so he slandered the nomadic Merchants (saying they worshiped the Frenzied Flame's Outer God), which caused the entombment of the "Great Caravan" by the Golden Order. In other words, Shabriri caused a genocide, so the Three Fingers (an avatar of the Frenzied Flame's Outer God) could manifest in the Lands Between.
As such, we can't say that Shabriri and the Merchants were in the same camp. Instead, Shabriri sacrificed an entire clan of innocent people in order to bring Madness all over the Lands Between. That's why he is the most reviled man of all history.
If there's one thing I am sure about in Elden Ring, it's that Shabriri sucks. 😂
@@kabvrvmate, everything sucks in the Lands Between 🤣
If you're wondering about that Kale dialogue, it's from his cut questline.
I love this Prepare to Cry episode the most out of all. It's just... There's so much suffering in Lands Between. Almost every story is a tragedy. And there're no better words to describe this ending as the words of Crestfallen Saulden from Dark Souls 2. "To be alive, to walk this earth... That's the real curse right there". And so, no more fractures. No more birth in Lands Between. The End, once and for all...
Those words are hard to hear. To be so filled with sorrow, anger, or sadness to the point where you just wish to be dead, or for it all to end, is the tragedy beyond all others in that game.
It seems no one mentioned it so I will. The burning ring that Melina has in her hand at the end is the whistle to summon Torrent. So you basically kill Torrent and Melina who bequeathed him appears.
Torrent, noooooo!!! This really is the worst ending 🐎😢
Yes, it is necessary in this ending for Torrent to die, just like everyone else. No births, no life, no souls, no fractures.
Maybe we would like this ending more if Torrent was a spider.
If theories are to be believed, then we don't even win in this ending. It's theorized that the reason our character is moving so strangely at the end is that we actually die after killing the Elden Beast, and Shabriri swiped our body.
Dang! I never thought of that. I just rewatched the ending and I see where that idea comes from. Definitely not concrete evidence, but a sound hypothesis.
Kale's quest was cut explaining why the audio files are there but not in the game. I personally think this would've been better than Hyetta leading you to this.
I liked his dialogue and think it would have been better also. Though it was funny telling Hyetta what Shabririi grapes were making her throw up lol.
One does not exclude the other. Hyetta's dialogues are important to understand the Three Fingers' point of view. Kale only gives us his personal point of view. So much so that there are still people believing that the world will restart. Anyone who paid attention to Hyerra's words realized that no, births need to end, forever. Only Kale wouldn't make us understand the flame of frenzy in fact.
It's heavily implied that at the ending after you killed the elden beast you get killed yourself by Shabriri who then posseses your body which is the reason he's dancing around with joy as the flames burn the erdtree to the ground its literally the bad guy wins ending made even worse because he now possess all your god like power and no one can stand against him other then prehaps destined death.
At first I just thought I turned into some kickass fire face guy. 😅 I get that now though. Even mentioning that the Frenzied flame ending was kind of ok made the comments blow up lol. I was clearly in the wrong!
The Frenzied Flame ending is not the good ending. You aren't burning down the Erdtree for the sake of change or anything, you're killing everything and everyone, so there's nothing left to change or build back up from.
It's definitely the coolest ending though, especially with that Melina scene at the end
I didn't realize it was a total death of everyone. I mean, Melina is still there so clearly something is alive. Maybe that confuses me a bit. I did see it as a reset, a way to start fresh.
Personally I see it as more of a reset rather than a total end.
The world must be destroyed so that it may grow anew in the future.
The fact that Melina survived clearly indicates that not all life was eradicated, so I think it's safe to assume that life always finds a way to prosper.
@@pokimanefartcompilationMelina surviving probably has something to do with her being the gloom eyed queen or related.
@@wadamade1 I don't think that theory is confirmed. But either way, it still means the fire doesn't kill absolutely everything.
@pokimanefartcompilation Melina surviving doesn't mean it is the rule, she could just be an exception
The frenzied flame ending is the nihilism ending it's all consuming killing everyone destroying with no distinction
Shibriri lied about the merchants to get them to suffer and hate and despair and in their dispair call forth the frenzied flame he literally caused their pain to call forth chaos it's legitimately one of the most evil things ever done in elden ring and it is the most evil ending melina the likely gloam eyed queen literally says that because you're seeking to kill everyone and erase everything she will use destined death to kill you
Damn. Shabriri really sucks.
@@kabvrvyeah he really does he tricked yura into giving him his body as well when yura fell into despair
“In this one there was zero sadness” he says, after seeing almost the entire merchant population buried alive forever for something they didn’t do
The story is certainly sad but only from our third person view. There is a "tree falls in the woods" situation here. If no one is left alive to be sad, is there any sadness?
That’s a fair point. It’s interesting that you’re the only person I’ve seen react to this video that somewhat agrees with this outcome. All others said this was the worst way to solve the problem, though I was in two minds about it myself. There’s certainly a form of relief in ensuring nobody suffers again because they simply don’t exist.
Hmm what does this say about my mental state? 😅
there is a brilliant video essay on the frenzied flame ending breaking it down. its by the channel Ratatoskr called What Is The Flame of Frenzy? | Elden Ring Lore. I would definitely recommend giving it a watch since it really just adds so much to the frenzied flame ending by making you truely understanding all details.
Fun fact, medieval armor was made with genital protection in mind!
"Where I came from"
"Detroit" Nah idk why but that was way too funny xD
I always loved the dichotomy between how Shabriri and Kale say "May chaos take the world."
Shabriri says it with glee and happiness. He hopes to plunge everything into chaos out of a true desire and want to burn everything. Destroy life, destroy death, destroy everything.
Kale says it with resignation, disdain, and sorrow. He hopes for chaos because he's lost everything and has descended into despair.
I came across a post on Reddit today where someone was talking about how there is no storyline to elden ring and at the lore is weak. They argued that as you play the game, that is the case and while I can't disagree, I feel like it is some of the deepest lore of all games. The beauty of it is that it is not in your face and told to you, but you have to watch and think and figure it out for yourself.
@@kabvrv Well Miyazaki took a story that George RR Martin made and sort of made the demi god characters fall from grace and be broken, the world you explore is a husk of what it once was. So yeah, you are an archaeologist, scholar, warrior future Elden Lord. You're like Indiana Jones. Even he had to read some scrolls sometimes to figure out the puzzle! lol
28:00 Marika is a Hungarian name, the nickname of Mária. It's always funny hearing Americans thinking it's a reference to the US. 😂Other in-game names with Hungarian origins are Margit, István, and Elemér. GRR Martin put Hungarian names in Game of Thrones even, so these may be his decisions.
Haha how very American to make it about us LOL 😅
7:32 thought that maybe because they are deemed as the followers of frenzy they are hunted down , so they kinda settle in places where normal people wont find them . Idk if it makes sense in their time ,since everyone is kinda hollow and dead
But how much would you trust the words of something known to be the embodiment of madness and chaos?
So easily, it could only be telling the suffering and downtrodden what they want to hear to end their suffering.
People are always looking for someone to fix their problems and there's always a con man there to tell them what they want to hear.
The reason the merchants are in hard to reach or find places is because of well the entire race was rounded up and forced to live underground, because of a lie, so the ones still around well they are most likely hunted as well based on what I've seen the truth was exposed but nothing changed like nothing listen to Kale's line closely he pretty much says where they stand right now
That makes sense. Funny that they still are merchants even though they can't be in public. I guess they are merchants to their core though, right? Like, they can't have another occupation.
Edgar is the 'all it takes is one bad day' meme, personified.
the three fingers serve the flame of frenzied
The frenzied flame is The outer god
Oh okay I see. So the flame of frenzied is like the god that the three finger serves just like how the greater will is what the two fingers serve?
@@kabvrvYES, hyetta dialogue seems to indicate that the greater will and the frenzied flame were once the same thing, which was called the one great, which would be where everything in the world of Elden Ring would have emerged from, apparently separating when the part of the one great, which would be the greater will,"created the life" they separated into antagonistic entities as well as most likely all other outer gods come from This starts to make more sense when you realize that the two and three fingers together would form a complete hand
Vengeance is an insidious snake, and the point of this whole story in Elden Ring is that acting solely on resentment, even if justified, will lead to unjustified and total destruction.
The Frenzied Flame isn't even related to all this tragedy, it's just feeding off of everyone's suffering.
Shabriri, and probably by extension Hyetta, is an incarnation of the Frenzied Flame itself. Essentially, a manipulative, lying poltergeist(he might've been a normal person at one point, but he's now clearly a maligned spirit) who's only real aim is to spark the Flame of Frenzy in as many places as possible by cultivating people with enough resentment in their hearts that they would serve as a good accelerant for the Flame.
So, as the story expresses, He lied about theMerchants and they were punished into a Nomadic life because of it, then when he was found out, they cut off his tongue, but the damage had already been done and since the Golden Order can't have people running around expressing doubt about how wrong their system might actually be for making such a horrible mistake, they instead had the Merchants buried underneath Lyndell to keep the secret.
Nihilism is the ultimate form of resentment, because it is a resentment aimed at existence itself. It's a philosophy based on being upset that your existence has no prescribed meaning.
"Divest yourself of everything" is basically their way of saying "nothing matters, nothing ever mattered", which is clearly wrong otherwise they wouldn't feel so bad about it.
Right at the very beginning, this story starts with the Misbegotten who, when given the opportunity to free themselves, instead chose to just kill everyone to spite a system that has already failed and broken. A totally pointless act that the player puts an end to, when they coulda just... left. Survived. Done anything else.
That's resentment. Revenge. Nihilism.
Good info! 🙏. I think I'm nearing expert lore master at this point but it's funny to see how lost I was at the beginning... but I suppose we all were. I love how deep the game goes into the stories and learning about what inspires them. I think this ending has become my favorite because of how complicated the path is and how different it is from all of the others. There's a lot of interesting lore in the back end of this one.
I VERY MUCH sympathize with those who would follow the Three Fingers in this world, but I think from the text of the game it's obvious that Shabriri is supposed to be similar to the Devil. He's supposed to be telling you plausible truths that convince you to do evil. I occasionally characterize my own true but unhelpful thoughts as Shabriri talking to me.
"Please. A frenzied flame to melt away the cursed suffering. And the order." is a sentiment that resonates with me deeply and that I actively reject all the time.
The best ending imo is buring yourself with the 3 fingers help and then lift the curse afterwards to choose the ending you want.
I ended up doing this on a later playthrough just because I could. Imagine how mad the three fingers would have been.
Something to add that I've never seen anyone mention, is that during Yura's questline, after you've killed the Ravenmount Assassin in Raya Lucaria, there's extremely easily missable dialog from Yura. When you load back into your normal world, there's three dots on the screen and you can hear Yura breathing rather heavily. If you don't interact with him and wait a few extra seconds, you hear him say: "Wretched worms, leave me be."
A channel called Tarnished Archaeologist has an amazing series on the frenzied flame and its real world inspirations for yellow eyes, how it spreads, etc. But the interesting thing is its real world connections to parasitic worms that infect the eyes and create a sickness called River Blindness. If it's anything to go by, it's quite possible that Yura is undertaking his ordeal because he knows he's been infected and is succumbing to the flame of frenzy. He does say in his next dialogue that he's "dying" to meet Eleonora and that he doesn't have much time left. I wonder if it's because he knows he's close to losing himself to the flame anyway, and that he would rather die in battle as himself than wither into something akin to the frenzied villagers we find in Limgrave and Liurnia. As for "giving" his body to Shabriri, well that absolute monster is a master manipulator so he likely tells us that Yura gave him his flesh so that we would be more inclined to trust him.
Interesting. I've received a lot of other recommendations but Tarnished Archeologist seems to stand out to me. Definitely going to check that out. I love the idea of tying the real world to the lore.
This is my fav EL story and this music is just masterpiece ..
I took the whole thing with shabriri saying to not burn our maiden and all that its selfish and evil as another lie he told to us. Like you said we kind of still burnt our maiden weather she wanted it or not, just like Melina. So i feel this was another lie he told to get what he wanted which was for our "kind heart" to go beneath the erdtree and think we were doing the right thing till the three fingers and its frenzy took over us (im assuming after the frenzy took over our minds, we had no self of thought left, only frenzy). This is just my opinion on this matter.
Good opinion though. Shabriri clearly sucks so much. There's no reason to think he was telling us the truth.
Knocked Loose mention hell yeah
This might sound complicated (heck even to me) but originally the three fingers was destroyed killed whatever (heck they seem to love sealing things away) so after it was defeated things went the way they wanted then some years so by and some guy goes and tells the golden order that the merchants of the world are praying to the three fingers, cause well no one knows about it after so much time has passed, when Marika even heard a mention of it ordered every last one of them be rounded up and buried underground, then let's say a few years pass and the truth comes out and well instead of fixing it the golden order decided "We need to cover this up, we don't know what happened."
A little much.... something like that
Think shabriri was the whistleblower on the golden orders treatment of the nomadic merchants and called his ramblings heretical that’s why he got his eyes gouged out
Speaking of choice, Melina requests the burning herself so she made the choice, it's hypocritical of Shabriri to imply she had no input in the matter lel. But you ought to expect that from a pathological liar.
It seems the point of this branch is to expose the crimes of the Order but at the same time it offers no valid alternative. Other endings seem to be more beneficial to the world, even the Omen.
Prepare to cry is just a play on classic dark soulsian Prepare to die.
Oh duh I didn't even process that Melina wanted it to happen.
“The Flame of Frenzy is the moral ending! Am I wrong?”
Dear Greater Will, someone tell this man 😭🤣
Yes yes, I know. Looking back on things... I suppose a world ending flame holocaust is not moral. 😂 I'm just saying, hear me out, if the world is a literal hell, could it be better to kill it all than to let them live their tortured lives? The question has at least a little merit! Maybe? No? I guess not.
@@kabvrv well as Melina points out, there are still births, life and joy endures, and denying their value is part of Shabriri's lie by essentially undermining the value of what joy and hope you can get within an oppressive system: as opposed to just giving up on improving it, killing everyone and everything without mercy, just so a cult of genocidal nihilists don't have to feel sad anymore
Yeah I didn't realize "gaol" was pronounced jail either, thought it was like "gale." Wonder why they did that? It does seem like some sort of alternate dimension.
I looked this up at some point after there video. I think gaol was actually the more original spelling and it just isn't used much anymore. It's just an old way to write it.
@@kabvrv I honestly thought they made it up, but I suppose that does make sense. I do remember thinking it looked Celtic almost when I first saw it, since nothing Gaelic seems to ever be pronounced how it's spelled, and it kinda goes along with the spelling of "Blaidd"
Bro is basically saying it's not ok to kill someone but convincing someone to kill themselves is ok😂😂😂
I'd love to argue that it's more nuanced than that but you make a valid point... 😅
I just wish there was a clean version of vykes armor the fingerprint armor is still great though
Man I'd kill for an armorer in the DLC that can modify armor and shine up some old pieces.
Know I'm way too late for this, but an interesting bit of perhaps coincidence, is that "Marika" is the overfamiliarised version of "Mária" in Hungarian. "Mary" in English. Mary, Mother of God.
In the lore's context, not given birth *to* god, but for. Implying ownership of her.
As for why Shabriri did it, his goal is to spread the flame to as many people as he can. Including the merchants. When a group is marginalised to the point where they are hopeless, the proposed danger, for which they were marginalised to begin with, becomes a real alternative.
Basically, he's a little conniving bastard, ruining as many lives as possible, so that they're hopeless enough to give into full nihilism.
Burning it all down to start anew, like a forest fire is a nice notion, but chaos in this world is seeking oneness without structure. Like all our bloods making an ocean that, in a sense, is all of us combined as one, but there is no "us" in it.
It is, like Hayetta said; the hope of those, wishing they were never born in the first place. A sedative dream for the ultimate form of despair.
You're not too late! Thanks for the comment. Good info about Marika. Yes, Shabriri is terrible. If I've learned anything from the comments on this video is that I was really off base with that one. 😅 I've gone back and forth a bit but this has become my favorite ending.
@@kabvrvDon't worry, wanting to see a valid alternative against the Golden Order is more than understandable.
The three fingers i see them as a yin and yang kinda thing the greater will speaks and the fingers say/write what they hear and well they could be receiving rhe same message just only writes what it wants kinda like a sorting person they decide what message is spokenand what is thrown away and the three fingers speak the words that the two fingers won't like i wonder what exactly the greater will is saying cause in reality we have no idea other than whats told to us
Interesting. The fingers are still mysterious to me. You are right, who is to say that they are consulting with anything at all?
You should check out kublai Kahn. Shits hardcore as fuck
On it. 🤘
2 down, 3 to go for the prepare to cry series!
Niceee
People eat eyes yes... My grandmother was a chef in Austria, they are a delicacy there, for me thats awful. for them they are good appearently :D Lamb and stuff.
I think when I was recording I was referring to human eyes but I don't think I would eat any animal eyes either, unless I was starving 🤢.
Shabriri is a liar
No doubt. Maybe the worst guy in the game.
It is not about America no. Tarnished Archaeologist actually has a video on this topic, and he argues quite well with evidence that it is based of off the Catholic and Orthodox church in Europe, and when they split. The Golden Order is the Catholic, and the three fingers are Orthodox. Hence the two and three fingers.
Shabriri lied, and said that the nomads worshipped the Three Fingers. So the Golden Order does what it does best, kills and oppresses them. This lead the nomads to despair, which is needed to spawn the Three Fingers. So Shabriri's lie actually made the Golden Order create its own downfall so to speak. The nomads accept the Frenzied Flame because they so no other way, as they are being persecuted for no reason.
Good react thank you but Yes honestly i also think that Frenzied flame ending was the correct ending isn't it ?❤🔥
Vaati actually made an unfortunate mistake with his interpretation of Shabriri, his slander, and the Grand Caravan.
Shabriri preached the ideology of the Three-Fingers, which says that the Greater Will and Marika made a mistake. This is considered slander and heresy *BY THE GOLDEN ORDER* specifically.
His ideology spread after his punishment and death. Some people who were oppressed by the Golden Order, like the merchants, were convinced/"infected" with Shabriri's ideas. The Frenzied Flame manifested itself among the maddened people. It is their despair and suicidal hopelessness in the form of a God.
So the Golden Order did what it does best, it effectively genocided the lot of them to try to eradicate this "heretical disease".
Shabriri's "slander" was to speak against the Order's ideology, not to blame his own beliefs on the merchants. It doesnt make sense that Shabriri would be reviled for lying about the Caravan yet the merchants would still be left buried alive.
Very interesting. So much of the lore explanation seems to conflict other items. I almost get more confused the more I learn, especially in the comments. I simultaneously struggle with the many interpretations of what happens, and also love that the story is open to interpretation in some areas. That's why we have so much to talk about.
I'm on the misbegottens side as well other then the one who murded Irina she didn't deserve that. 😢
True, but it is hard to blame the misbegotten for the act.
You should really watch the Elden Ring Movie: Age of Stars at some point
I will! I plan to do them all.
The only good ending
I kind of think they're all good in a way but this is still my fav! 😅
shabriri and the frenzied flame is complete nihilist existentialism (and existential absurdism). you might also call Shabriri and his phisolophy 'pessimism' in simple terms lol. In our universe, it's that life and all of the universe has no purpose, no meaning. consciousness was an accident, and quite possibly a mistake. God is dead and never lived. In the Lands Between, where Gods are real and knowable, and there are forces even above that of God- unknowable universal and cosmic powers like the Greater Will and the Frenzied Flame, Shabriri's philosophy is to embrace entropy- everything returning to a complete zero on the board. Others in the comments are saying that this is the "bad" ending; you said this was the "good" ending. to me, this is the morally neutral ending. it just erases what was there before.
I definitely could have done better explaining my thoughts on the video... But "good ending" was probably not the best choice. As I watched this I believed that all was corrupt and worthless in the lands between. I mean... Look around. 😁 I also believed it to be a new beginning in a way, which was quickly shut down in the comments.
I like your thoughts on neutrality though. Bad, neutral, good... Nothingness could be neutral because while there is no good, there is no bad. Better to die than live on your knees.
@@kabvrv morality is tricky in the Lands Between lol here on earth, some determine that morality is objective and comes from a higher power, or is subjective and comes from us. In the Lands Between, however, there are multiple Gods, and multiple cosmic powers/forces above God. Therefore, unless there is a supreme force above all others, morality would ultimately be subjective depending on what you follow. To the Frenzied Flame God, destroying all life and returning to net zero isn’t good or bad. It just seems to be its natural state. Therefore, if we’re judging the morality of the decision by invoking the Frenzied Flame ending, it is neutral. Lol that’s how I came to that conclusion
I should have continued taking philosophy classes after 101 because I could sit and read about ideas like this forever.
You should not get into politics too much, this video just shows that you can easily misinterpret a bunch of stuff
I mean I want to defend myself but you're not wrong...