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Black toning cyanotypes!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 เม.ย. 2022
- I happened to accidentally figure out how to get the best black tones I have ever seen in a cyanotype a week or so ago which made me decide to do a video on toning and what I am calling "color shifting". In this video I am showing the different tones using instant coffee black tea green tea and tannic acid along with a final step using vinegar to shift the color to black or at least the best black I have seen so far. I had tried almost everything including 30% peroxide and several acids to no affect until I found some toning methods out of the book "the book of alternative photographic processes" as well as the book "cyanotype", I found several references saying to use tannic acid and Dektol to produce black cyanotypes and tried it but it did not really have much of an effect, finally online I found some articles comparing bleaching and toning chemicals and noticed a nice black toned image that said it was made using sodium carbonate to bleach and tannic and gallic acid to tone. With this information I was able to produce the best and most intense black I have ever been able to produce since I started making cyanotypes. Tannic acid is the best toning solution for making really good blacks with this method but a very close second is green tea so all you will need other than the cyanotype chemicals is sodium carbonate or "washing soda" green tea and vinegar to make amazing black prints. Note that the paper you use how strong your toning solution is and the amount of time you tone and wash your print is going to determine how much staining will happen. Black intensity will be determined by contrast and exposure time as well and you will not know exactly how dark the image will be until it has fully dried. Always allow your paper to dry at least 8 hours after coating before you expose it and allow it to dry 24 hours after processing it before toning. And yes there are other toning methods I have heard of from flowers to oak galls and there is a complete book on the subject but this is the simplest direct method to get the blackest blacks in a cyanotype print. If you are looking for a super black print darker than this you need to look at silver gelatin printing, carbon printing, kallitype printing or any of several other methods as this is already on the the limit of what cyanotypes can do. One last note, you can also combine toning agents like mixing one or more or all together to combine there toning ability's, this may be a good idea with the coffee as it may add more gray tones to the other ones.
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Really appreciate being able to see all the permutations of toning/bleaching/color-shifted. Definitely worth the extra length of video!
Outstanding! As an old (78) printer this brought back memories of the late 1970’s when I was messing with altering cyanotype color. Never thought about instant coffee . . . 🤭
Really loved the video! The reason why green thee and tannic acid both work pretty well I think is because well green thee contains tannic acid but just less of it. I think it's also mentioned in recipes for iron gall ink that more vinegar yields a more black colour and les of a brown red.
What about toning with gallic acid or a gallnuts Infusion?
Your videos are quite in depth and informative, thank you. I have VERY LIMITITED experience but must say I have yet to tone a cyanotype that I liked better than the original. I tried black tea and instant coffee, followed many different tutorials (including yours), and had limited success. The only thing I remotely liked was a quick dunk in the bleaching water (the blue temporarily looks purple) then very quickly into the wash, then coffee. For me, it's a whole lot of work for results I don't like. I have VanDyke brown and salt printing chemicals, so if I want something other than blue, I'll go that route.
I've watched many of your videos, thank you.
Thanks for the video! I am getting into this these days. I like the color that black Henna gives. Also, surprisingly, red wine
Fantastic work! And an invaluable resource for someone like me who's just starting out with cyanotypes. No doubt I'll still experiment but this gives me some sense of direction.
Highly appreciate you sharing your efforts.
Glad that you are finding it useful 😁
Thank you THANK YOU for this wonderfully detailed video❤ much appreciated, from an art teacher🎉
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent video many thanks for your time and patience and attention to detail. All very much appreciated.
This was exactly what I've been looking for -- "black" cyanotypes. Thanks for sharing!!!
You can use a feather to get rid of the bubbles,, just gently brushing the print
That is a very good idea
I 'm use tannic and vinegar too with the same results. Good job, thanks.
Glad to hear it worked
Great I've been waiting for this video!
for the coffee, you simply do not bleech to the end. And try oak bark... it is so subtle, without bleaching
Great video. It has definitely informed my decision about how to make my prints.
Super helpful video. Thanks for taking the time!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for creating this video and going through all the work, super helpful. I've been chasing proper Dark Black-Cyanotypes for a while and this works so well. I'd be interested in the chemistry behind why vinegar creates this further shift.
out of curiosity, did you use the original Cyanotype-chemistry (solution A + B etc), or one of the two Mike Ware came up with? I wonder if this would change the results, but I would assume they still produce the same chemicals after exposure and washing?
@N_N_N the tannic acid is ph sensitive. If you dip a cyanotype toned in tannic acid into an acid bath it turns gray, if you dip it into a basic solution it turns a reddish color. My guess is that when you dip it in an acidic bath it makes some of the bleached cyanotype solution turn slightly blue again and combined with the reddish color of the tannic acid it causes a "split tone" affect. Because of how the subtractive color works I think that the blue and reddish together are making the gray color.
@N_N_N this was original cyanotype chemistry. The new cyanotype should work the same but amonia works better as a bleach for it.
@@matthewbary1 makes sense, thanks!
@@N_N_N No problem
Thanks for the video, which I found very informative. I have been doing cyanotypes for about 18 months and like Japanese Matcha green tea for toning. I found it interesting to see how far you bleached your prints.
Great video!
Great results!
Just wondering if you’ve considered espresso: three quarters for half for you, one quarter straight on the print? Just a crazy idea (to justify espresso)
Have you tried apple cider vinegar afterwards?
I have. I need to make a more advanced video on cyanotype toning, I have found many ways and many toners to get prints that look as good as any salt print and even some very nice dark black prints using split toning. Espresso, tannic acid, wine tannins, and oak galls all make great prints
Very helpful, tried the tannic + vinegar and turned out well!
Very happy to hear
Thank you for all your work, I reckon that you have saved me hours and hours of further frustrating experimentation :) . Have you tried persimmon juice toning?
No i have not heard of using persimmon before
Thanks, nice job. 🎉🎉🎉
quality content.
Even tho I'm not into photography this interesting stuff
Muchas gracias por el video!
Awesome - Can you explain the bleaching process you used for the final piece you were happy with?
I explain bleaching in the Due tone video series I made. It will help with bleaching and toning.
Thank you so much for this information. Do you know if this could works on fabric?
I would imagine it would still work but weather or not it stays a black color would probably depend on if the cloth is being washed afterwards, for example a t-shirt
Hi, very useful, thank you. It's been years since I don't do cyanotypes anymore. I remember that if you bleached the print (Sodium Carbonate) AFTER the toning it would get warm even faster... but too warm. After many experiments I came up with some dillution of sodium carbonate mixed with the coffee and reduced the toning time but never got those neutral tones.
That said, what are the concentrations you've used for the sodium carbonate and tha tannic acid? Thank you
The bleaching bath you simply mix till you have a PH of 11-12. As far as the tannic acid I would say 1 tablespoon per liter of water.
@@matthewbary1 Thank you very much!
Hi. I learned alot from your video. I tried this on fabric as I wanted a grey tone. However, after the toning when I dipped it in vinegar, the cyanotype went from sepia to blue again and I don't know why.
I have not tested this on fabric but if it went to a blue you may be able to re bleach and you might try toning for a little longer.
Thank you so much for sharing this. I tried the vinegar wash with some prints I toned, and I noticed that when the prints dried, the neutral gray turned back into the more purple/red color. Do you have any tips on how to avoid this? Many thanks!
If you rinsed it after the vinegar it's possible the wash water was to alkaline. Try the vinegar soak again but rinse it in water that has some vinegar added to make sure it is not alkaline and that may help
Thank you so much for the quick reply! I tried the same print again, and I left it in the vinegar longer. I think that has done the trick. But I will also try your advice as well; the water here is pretty alkaline. Thanks again!@@matthewbary1
thank you!
You're welcome!
Question, what about the difference in intencity between green tea and tannic acid? As greeen tea is commonly availble versus tannic acid (and/or cheaper to work with). Thanks
Color and intensity are the same. If you want a darker color from ether tannic acid or green tea that is just going to depend on the thickness of your emulsion on the paper. Essentially if you double coat your paper you will get almost twice the intensity but it doesn't matter which one you use.
Try cleaning vinegar
Thanks for this video!!! Just a quick question, does this method of toning also work on other supports, like fabric, for example? Thanks for your time!
It should work on any anything, just keep in mind some things hold more emulsion than others and some things allow emulsion to penetrate deeper so this will affect your negative density and exposure times but otherwise everything would be the same. Hope that helps.
@@matthewbary1 thank you so much!!!
Where do you get tannic acid from - wine? I thought black tea was pretty full of tannic acid ? Also couldn't work out how long you left in the bleach which I think we call soda crystals here? Until the image completely fades or is it timing?
There is tannic acid in all kinds of tea and other plant roots and leaves they just have other compounds as well that will affect the color of the print. Tannic acid is just the pure form which I have bought from Ebay but green tea has the same affect as the pure stuff. You can use wine tannins but they are more prone to staining. As far as bleaching I want to do a master class on toning at some point because there are several ways to do it, yes you can bleach it all the way which I did here but you can also "split tone" where you 1/4 or 1/2 bleach and then tone which makes the image more detailed and better quality in my opinion.
And yes you want to use "soda crystals"
Thank you very much. When I get time I'll refer back to this.
Hey! I’m looking to tone my cyanotypes with the tannic acid, what were the measurements that you used for the water and acid?
about a teaspoon for every 2 liters should be enough
@@matthewbary1 How long did you keep the cyanotype in the tannic acid? the same amount of time as the black and green tea? and how long in the vinegar? Mine are still coming out blue in some areas after 15 mins in the tannic acid. but it does turn pretty black once in the vinegar.
I'm doing my cyanotypes on wood with a layer of gelatin on top, which is definitely different than paper but I wanted to make sure I'm leaving it in at least as long as your paper ones.
@@kristingraney372 If it is coming out blue I wonder if it needs more bleaching? It is also possible that the gelatin or wood is somehow affecting it but I am not sure
Is there a way to bleach at home without any bad chemicals? - photography student here
Washing soda or "Sodium carbonate" dissolved in water is all you need. It is just baking soda that has been heated so it is perfectly safe
What happens with Uv exposure from hanging in frames
I have toned cyanotypes I left in my attic near a window exposed to heat moisture and light and they don't look any different 2 years later
Have you tried hydrogen peroxide?
Yes I have it made a horribly ugly green tone
I feel like Squidward came to life and made this video
I washed a cyanotype in fabric and it got bleached. Can I bring back the blue? HELP ME PLEASE 😔
It may be possible to somewhat restore it by placing in undiluted vinegar
@@matthewbary1 Just regular vinegar on pre wet fabric?
Yes. I can't promise anything but it shouldn't hurt it either way
@@matthewbary1 OMG it is working! It's developing slowly! I don't think it will be that saturated blue anymore but some it better than none... Thank you so so so so much for your knowledge 🥰❤️🙏🏼
@@ritasilva8797 No problem at all