I remember when I did Carmina Burana as a schoolkid, we had almost the full orchestral forces but 2 percussionists and 2 pianists covered the whole piano/percussion/celesta part
Orff sure did love his unusual orchestras. His opera Antigonae was scored for 6 flutes, 6 oboes, 6 trumpets, 4 harps, 6 pianos with 2 players apiece, 9 contrabasses, and a massive percussion section.
I really hate when rehearsal marks are spaced evenly like that, it makes me second guess my counting when they don't line up with phrases Can't wait for more Carmina Burana!!
Just woke up from surgery to discover this had dropped. THANK YOU Thomas! I'm very aware (I think our whole group is) that this is still a difficult, challenging, fragile time for you. God be with you.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your very considerate comment. I appreciate it very much. I'm so glad that this video can hopefully be part of the healing process for you (and the next few coming before the end of the year).
LET'S GO! we made it to the launch, Thomas please tell me the next analysis series won't have a subscriber goal attached to it, i've been waiting since may for this video! On a more somber note, hope ur feeling better after such a hard time for you.
Thanks so much Jonathan. There might be a subscriber goal for the next series - but when you see the next piece planned, I think you'll agree that the tally will go up much more quickly. I appreciate your thoughtful message. Things are still day-to-day, but I'm hopeful.
@@OrchestrationOnline One more question concerning another group of videos i love, will you get back to the evaluations for the Beethoven challenge? Also, i don't know if you'll talk more about this in the O fortuna video, but am I correct in assuming that the closing O fortuna is an exact copy of the opening or are there some differences you'll point out?
As a former student/amateur tuba player, I can say that playing Carmina Burana was the most fun I ever had as an orchestral rank-and-filer. The part doesn't work unless you absolutely crank it. There's a delicious descending octave glissando with a hairpin to ff, earlier in the same chorale you highlight at 16:46. Fabulous to play.
Absolutely spot on in everything you say,especially in regard to the horn scoring and your closing notes re bar numbering and rehearsal marks. Orchestral hornist for 30 years, and my orchestra's assistant librarian. A fab video, looking forward to more in the series. 😊
Congratulations on 77k subscribers! I'm looking forward to your analyses of Carmina Burana. CB has long been one of my favorite works. It's a lot of fun to sing, too.
Yayyy! A new great video! Thanks a lot! I love your analysis, insights and structure! I sent your video to Martha Argerich. We watched Carmina Burana on TV together in Geneva in August.
This is genuinely my favorite channel ever. Thank you so much for this content!!! Your videos have made me passionate about orchestration and will be buying your books as soon as I can! :D
I was at a performance of this a week ago in Glasgow (RSNO) along with Langer’s The Dong With a Luminous Nose. I’d fallen out with Carmina years ago thinking it was a one hit wonder with a few nice moments but this was a revelation. The soloists acted their parts - the tenor crept on to the stage ‘late’ for example - and the audience laughed on several occasions at the baritone’s various antics. It’s a very theatrical work. I’ve been humming bits of it all week. With a Mahler 2 and 5 already done this season in Glasgow is already a great one. There’s a ‘come and sing’ Carmina Burana in Edinburgh in January if anyone is nearby…
Very very excited for this! Been in love with this piece ever since I got to perform selections from it in college. 30:42 Our sheet music for Veris Leta Facies actually notated these first four time signatures as 2/(dotted-half), 3/3, 1/2, 2/3. You can see it in this score video: th-cam.com/video/hnewBn6_blU/w-d-xo.html I always found that interesting and slightly confusing, as if it's 3/(3/4), three "3/4-measures" per measure. Much prefer the 2/(dotted-half) system, though it also takes getting used to when the dotted-half changes to a regular half.
7:07 How would double bass players whose instruments don't have the low C handle this passage? Play the whole line, or just the low C's, an octave up? Stay silent during the low C's, or the whole passage?
15:35 as a former trombonist, that high Bb is murder. I'd rather to that on the B or C above, to be honest. For whatever reason that I don't know for certain, that Bb must be at or around the "break" between the normal register and the high range. The embouchure changes ever so slightly for this octave, sacrificing a little warmth for better endurance, stability and and airflow. Maybe this is less needed on the smaller-bore trombones of Orff's day, but today's symphony players use trombones that were about the size of a bass trombone of that time. Not saying you shouldn't write this, just that it's a lot harder than it looks (and I agree it looks hard, but yeah), and a higher note might actually be easier to crescendo from p to ff on.
We did this in college. It's really hard to do well. The tempi are hard to transition through. The vocal soloists need to be loud and boisterous. While I love a big ensemble, listening across the stage requires careful attention. It's one of the few choral works that I want to sing along with, every time I hear it. I'm a percussionist.
So the rehearsal marks are randomly place every 10 bars, regardless? I was so confused. I thought they were rehearsal marks, but I saw the transitions either before or after. Should I remark the rehearsal marks for these study?
Not necessary. My videos will all be using the marks in the original score as you see here, so just leave it alone. However, my instruction is for people to NOT do this in their own original works. For Orff, the damage is already done so I don't want to make it worse. We can navigate with what he left us.
This question has been asked before - you may have missed my response. The plan is to select the most ideal interpretation of each selection for the purposes of each individual lecture. In this case, both the optics and general high quality of the performance made the WDR video ideal. But you could see I used a different orchestra to show percussion tradeoffs, for instance. I like the WDR performance, and I'm sure we'll revisit it. You'll see other orchestras featured as we go. Stand by.
This series could not have come at a better time; my college is doing Carmina Burana next semester and Im playing one of the piano parts.
I remember when I did Carmina Burana as a schoolkid, we had almost the full orchestral forces but 2 percussionists and 2 pianists covered the whole piano/percussion/celesta part
Thank you for sharing with us this amazing orchestration class!
Such a majestic, magnetic work. And this expansive analysis of the score is a beautiful match for the ambitious compositional achievement by Orff.
Orff sure did love his unusual orchestras. His opera Antigonae was scored for 6 flutes, 6 oboes, 6 trumpets, 4 harps, 6 pianos with 2 players apiece, 9 contrabasses, and a massive percussion section.
So true
Do you have a link to the score?
@ Unfortunately I don’t; it’s readily available for purchase, I just have no plans to get it myself.
Where can I buy it@@owengette8089
Wow. This is a fascinating look at Orff's orchestration!
Yaaaaay!! I was waiting so much for this. Thanks so much Thomas!
I really hate when rehearsal marks are spaced evenly like that, it makes me second guess my counting when they don't line up with phrases
Can't wait for more Carmina Burana!!
Excellent video! Thank you maestro!
Just woke up from surgery to discover this had dropped. THANK YOU Thomas! I'm very aware (I think our whole group is) that this is still a difficult, challenging, fragile time for you. God be with you.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your very considerate comment. I appreciate it very much. I'm so glad that this video can hopefully be part of the healing process for you (and the next few coming before the end of the year).
LET'S GO! we made it to the launch, Thomas please tell me the next analysis series won't have a subscriber goal attached to it, i've been waiting since may for this video!
On a more somber note, hope ur feeling better after such a hard time for you.
Thanks so much Jonathan. There might be a subscriber goal for the next series - but when you see the next piece planned, I think you'll agree that the tally will go up much more quickly. I appreciate your thoughtful message. Things are still day-to-day, but I'm hopeful.
@@OrchestrationOnline One more question concerning another group of videos i love, will you get back to the evaluations for the Beethoven challenge? Also, i don't know if you'll talk more about this in the O fortuna video, but am I correct in assuming that the closing O fortuna is an exact copy of the opening or are there some differences you'll point out?
As a former student/amateur tuba player, I can say that playing Carmina Burana was the most fun I ever had as an orchestral rank-and-filer. The part doesn't work unless you absolutely crank it. There's a delicious descending octave glissando with a hairpin to ff, earlier in the same chorale you highlight at 16:46. Fabulous to play.
Absolutely spot on in everything you say,especially in regard to the horn scoring and your closing notes re bar numbering and rehearsal marks. Orchestral hornist for 30 years, and my orchestra's assistant librarian. A fab video, looking forward to more in the series. 😊
Thanks so much! I really appreciate the ups from my horn/librarian crowd, that means a lot. Also married to a veteran pro hornist/orchestra librarian.
Excited to study this marvellous work over the coming holiday season. Cheers everyone.
Congratulations on 77k subscribers! I'm looking forward to your analyses of Carmina Burana. CB has long been one of my favorite works. It's a lot of fun to sing, too.
You're welcome. I had ro empty my savings account to pay off enough people so they could subscribe, at least temporarily.😂😂😉
Congratulation! No wonder with such good content you put out there!
Yayyy! A new great video! Thanks a lot! I love your analysis, insights and structure! I sent your video to Martha Argerich. We watched Carmina Burana on TV together in Geneva in August.
Aw how lovely! Thanks so much. She sounds like great company.
Thanks for the horn distribution part! (coming from a hornist)
Glad to know I got it right! (My wife the pro horn player also vetted it, but not all hornists agree about everything.)
This is genuinely my favorite channel ever. Thank you so much for this content!!! Your videos have made me passionate about orchestration and will be buying your books as soon as I can! :D
Great overview, just as I've come to expect out of you. This is a brilliant instrumentation for what Orff was trying to accomplish.
Thanks so much!
I was at a performance of this a week ago in Glasgow (RSNO) along with Langer’s The Dong With a Luminous Nose.
I’d fallen out with Carmina years ago thinking it was a one hit wonder with a few nice moments but this was a revelation. The soloists acted their parts - the tenor crept on to the stage ‘late’ for example - and the audience laughed on several occasions at the baritone’s various antics. It’s a very theatrical work. I’ve been humming bits of it all week. With a Mahler 2 and 5 already done this season in Glasgow is already a great one.
There’s a ‘come and sing’ Carmina Burana in Edinburgh in January if anyone is nearby…
27:05 HUGE (!!!!) made me smile when I caught it
Way cool insights to start the CB series... It's an awesome piece. Radical use of perc and choir. Hope you're well Thomas ✌️
Thank you!
Congrats
Very very excited for this! Been in love with this piece ever since I got to perform selections from it in college.
30:42 Our sheet music for Veris Leta Facies actually notated these first four time signatures as 2/(dotted-half), 3/3, 1/2, 2/3. You can see it in this score video:
th-cam.com/video/hnewBn6_blU/w-d-xo.html
I always found that interesting and slightly confusing, as if it's 3/(3/4), three "3/4-measures" per measure. Much prefer the 2/(dotted-half) system, though it also takes getting used to when the dotted-half changes to a regular half.
Very pleased to have this fascinating analysis.
May I request similar attention to Janacek's Glagolitic Mass?
7:07 How would double bass players whose instruments don't have the low C handle this passage? Play the whole line, or just the low C's, an octave up? Stay silent during the low C's, or the whole passage?
15:35 as a former trombonist, that high Bb is murder. I'd rather to that on the B or C above, to be honest.
For whatever reason that I don't know for certain, that Bb must be at or around the "break" between the normal register and the high range. The embouchure changes ever so slightly for this octave, sacrificing a little warmth for better endurance, stability and and airflow. Maybe this is less needed on the smaller-bore trombones of Orff's day, but today's symphony players use trombones that were about the size of a bass trombone of that time.
Not saying you shouldn't write this, just that it's a lot harder than it looks (and I agree it looks hard, but yeah), and a higher note might actually be easier to crescendo from p to ff on.
We did this in college. It's really hard to do well. The tempi are hard to transition through. The vocal soloists need to be loud and boisterous. While I love a big ensemble, listening across the stage requires careful attention. It's one of the few choral works that I want to sing along with, every time I hear it. I'm a percussionist.
So the rehearsal marks are randomly place every 10 bars, regardless? I was so confused. I thought they were rehearsal marks, but I saw the transitions either before or after. Should I remark the rehearsal marks for these study?
Not necessary. My videos will all be using the marks in the original score as you see here, so just leave it alone. However, my instruction is for people to NOT do this in their own original works. For Orff, the damage is already done so I don't want to make it worse. We can navigate with what he left us.
Are we using the WDR recording for this series?
This question has been asked before - you may have missed my response. The plan is to select the most ideal interpretation of each selection for the purposes of each individual lecture. In this case, both the optics and general high quality of the performance made the WDR video ideal. But you could see I used a different orchestra to show percussion tradeoffs, for instance. I like the WDR performance, and I'm sure we'll revisit it. You'll see other orchestras featured as we go. Stand by.
Ok, for some reason my score never looks like yours, Thomas. Do you ha it transcribed? I need yours so I can follow better😊
Check out Maddenhawk's channel for the full score with pretty decent reference audio.