Red also gets "additional attack steps" effects to further bolster its combat strength. It also does pretty well with combat damage pumping effects. Just wanted to add that.
People just need to develop a doctrine of use. I see people use counters far too often to curtail opponents instead of protecting their wins or saving themselves. Go in with parameters of what you will and won’t counter and you will always have a counter when you need it
Great breakdown. I appreciate the effort you put into the ranking this time! Edit: Combat gets a little messy. I feel that black has lots of menace and deathtouch with decent flying options. The messy part is when you look into combat tricks. Black has 'slingshot' cards, red has those +1 +0 iterations, white has spells that deals with attacking/blocking creatures conditionally.. it's a good category for sure!
15:35 I think Red having so much artifact support, and it historically relying so much on artifacts, leads people to ignore issues with Red that can be covered over with artifacts. I don't agree with that, but I see that attitude a lot. I think one of the other things that keeps people from complaining about Red's weaknesses is that it's both kind of always been the weakest color and has the strongest color identity.
I feel like a solid argument can be made for green blue or white being number 1. Red is a nightmare to play though. No ramp options, limited removal, almost no tutors, zero card advantage effects. Wizards need to give red some non-busted card draw effects that are just pure advantage.
A red Teferi’s would be amazing too. Something like “Exile all non land permanents you control until your next up keep. Those permanents gain haste. Sacrifice them at the beginning of the next end step.”
Eh. I think impulse draw is severely underrated, and I don’t even play much red. Commander is won by having one burst play, and red can gain masses of mana and impulse draw lots of cards in one turn, which wins games. It’s just underutilized.
@@snowmanO07 have you considered that on some level the reason you don't play red much is because it lacks card advantage? There are some symptoms of this that aren't obvious. Impulse draw is nice, but for every time that you exile a big splashy spell with your jeskas will and have the mana to cast it, there will be other times where you exile a land and two spells that don't have red in their cost and it can feel pretty rough. Not only that, but your opponents are aware of these cards. Exiling interaction with impulse draw often feels pretty rough. You are essentially accepting that you are waving goodbye to a core piece of any deck or, using it on a sub optimal target at the table because 'might as well, if I don't it's gone forever'
@@TenousPlan I don’t play red much because I haven’t found a compelling mono red commander any of the times I was ready to build a deck. You have correct points, but this is exactly why I think it is just misunderstood and underrated. Impulse draw can often get you more cards for the mana or effort than traditional drawing gets you. Playing a mana geyser and then casting whatever else is available may land as sub-optimal for that card sometimes, but if you do something like that 4 turns in a row there is still card advantage occurring. It may not be as procured or as optimal as having a couple cards in hand that you plan out playing, but it is card advantage nonetheless. Different doesn’t mean inferior is all I’m saying, and I think the general player base is naive or inexperienced at making this form of card advantage just as good.
@@snowmanO07 I think its def better than people give it credit for. That new mono red commander Dragonhawk, Fate's tempest is a good example. Repeatable impulse draw especially is on par with card draw in my eyes. Theres also stuff like valakut exploration that generate a TON of advantage in landfall decks. as a matter of fact, it's the main wincon in my Storm deck that casts reshape the earth on storm count 2 or 3 to drop 30 lands into play lol
For Red ramp you can consider new cards like Brass’s Tunnel-Grinder and Dowsing Device. They don’t go in every deck but if you have synergy they flip easily
44:00 For red tutors, there are tons of creature type specific tutors, where you can search for a Goblins or a dragon, etc. Red has a lot there, which is incredibly limited, but common enough to be relevant. And Imperial Recruiter is a bit more broad.
I'd be curious in a video that discusses the best 2 color combos and another about 3 color combos, especially because if red has such good combat, does that add enough value to a bad combat color to make red worthwhile?
Here's a though to other categories that could be included in the future: > Spellslinging: lightning Bolt, storm effects, Browbeat, Twincast, Flame Rift, Sovereigns Bite, Sorin's Revenge, Chandra's Ignition, and other cards where casting is used to get ahead damage spells and multiple cast effects on your cards, typically instants and sorceries but ETB triggers like impact tremors could kinda pseudo slide in here too since youre "casting for an effect". I don't build these decks so I dont have many examples to list > Theft: Insurrection, Elder Brain, Yawgmoth's Vile Offering, Blatant Theivery, Virtue of Persistence, Mob Rule, Stolen Strategy, Sower of Temptation, Mind Flayer Taking cards that aren't yours, especially useful to pad your own deck with effects from other colors, though not reliably > Creature boosting and dragging: giving and taking away +1/1 counters, deathtouch, flying, reach, haste, trample, indestructible, doublestrike, etc Obviously each color mainly sticks to certain keywords but not all keywords are created equal, like i dont care if your creatures have deathtouch if i can fly over them anyways. This one would be harder to objectively pick out a winner due to subjectivity I will also mention that Land removal wasnt counted under your removal section, which red is much better than the other colors at doing. Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Ruination, Blood Sun, Sinkhole, Choking Sands, Thermokars, Aftershock, Armageddon. Yes its not nice, but sometimes its necessary especially in EDH when everyone is playing command tower, triomes, and other mana fixing lands
We need to normalize land removal. As long as it isn’t mass land removal, idk why people get so butthurt about it. Lands are extremely strong these days, and I agree red deals with them best. It’s just unpopular to do it 🤷♂️
I think you’re missing the point of the video. It’s not about evaluating every mechanic of the game; it’s about evaluating the aspects of the game most broadly needed to win. If I were to include the mechanics you mentioned, I would actually expand “Combat” to be “Win Conditions.”
Something the video didn’t touch on-and that’s often underrated-is how fast red is as a color in Commander. Sure it's not as versatile nor resilient as the other colors, but I feel like it makes up for that by being incredibly cost-effective, with a much lower average casting cost compared to other colors. This allows red to make big plays and even win the game seemingly out of nowhere, catching opponents completely off guard. It's also really effective in deploying repeatable sources of incidental damage and damage doublers, putting the game on a fast clock. That speed and efficiency are what make red so powerful.
Red also has the extra combat shenanigans, it is the best at goad and best at manipulating blockers. In my opinion green is the clear second best but it isn’t as close to red as others think in my opinion. What about Phyrexian mana or paying life? Black is the best at that and while it isn’t conventional ramp, using life as a resource instead of mana is something that can accelerate you out in front of most decks that don’t include green. Great video, I enjoyed hearing your perspectives.
Also remember powerful categories of magic that are inherently likely to win you games. Just because you don’t include black tutors doesn’t mean it’s objectively the most powerful thing you can do. It only takes two mana to tutor a win and at higher levels with the zero mana rocks and free interaction that’s what makes the demonic consultation thassas oracle win so strong. Right before that you can demonic tutor for the piece you need. And that is powerful. I think black is sometimes so powerful that people don’t play its best pieces casually making it seem lower. It’s not fun casually but it’s effective.
I think there's a couple cards that need honorable mentions: Felton of the Third Path is fantastic recursion in red. I run it in my mono-red deck, and I've seen it as commander to my detriment. Black has Darkness (a fog) and Withering Boon (a creature counterspell), both of which are worth at least a consider in any mono-black list.
I agree with just about everything you said regarding red. I’ll give you a good example: one of the first decks I ever made was (surprise) Krenko. In the last few years I look in every new aer for new cards that will make the deck just that much better. I’ve spent a lot of time and $ getting it to where it is. And I’ve won lots of games, but it’s expensive, and pretty much everyone now knows how easy it is to beat. A few weeks ago, I decided to put together a mono white Thalia deck, just with cards I already have. I didn’t win with it, but I shut everyone down the whole game and just about got the win. And it took almost no effort, so I agree with you on that front. The one thing I disagree on, tho, is that red does have one tutor that is great - Goblin Recruiter. It’s a one card tutor that can win the game on the turn after it’s played, or the same turn if you can draw the top card. The only trick is you have to have 3 red mana available. There’s even a red card that can tutor for Goblin Recruiter- Imperial Recruiter. It’s one of those “I just win” so I only use it if it’s more competitive. Other than that, tho, I agree with you completely.
A category that might be worth adding: Mana cheating. Reanimating stuff, play without paying, put onto the battlefield etc. Also I think permanent ramp where green is easily the best and ritual ramp should both be categories. Super explosive starts with Rite of Flame, Dark Ritual, Elvish Spirit Guide etc. are not nothing and can warp whole games.
46:00 With the Necron Precon that came out, we do have like 5 or 6 options of bringing back Artifacts. Some of them apply to any artifacts, others are limited to 'Artifact Creatures/Vehicles' but hey, we have a few.
I agree that it gets hazy when you're looking at ramp vs tutoring lands. . . At the same time, though, with how they're spitting out utility lands, green's advantage here is getting harder to ignore. When my buddy used Archdruid's Charm to tutor his Talon Gates into play in response to his commaner being targeted, it certainly didn't FEEL like ramp. Haha
I would give Black a lot more credit with Ramp because making a ton of mana late game is huge. You wanna fly low, pick apart your opponents strategies, get your own stuff together, then go for the big haymaker. Black has the tutors to make that happen pretty reliably with mana doublers. I also think wincons should be something to consider. Black has by far the best 1 card & 2 card wincons with how easy they are, and with the best tutors and mana doublers all combined with that it gives them a massive advantage if you really wanted to "metagame the casuals". So unless you're intentionally avoiding Torment of Hailfire & Demonic tutor, I do think Black is really the strongest in casual commander for these reasons, but it isn't as well rounded as Green or White is.
I learned of the dark magic that is white in the commander format a few years ago and despite me banging my head against the wall and coming up with multiple mono-white decks, they never seem to do anything I want them to do. The only mono white deck I've built and enjoyed was Adeline but that might be because of her overwhelming power. I sit down on a deck building website, put it together, give it a once over just to make sure it looks good, and it just sputters out in the field. I'm more than willing to admit fault here but i just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
People always say blue is overpowered but it's really because it has the most splashiest spells but blue can't ramp for crap. I think with all things being equal Green really just does everything well it doesn't have the most powerful spells but it's very consistent.
As just a thought experiment, I want to compare Dark Ritual's "ramp" production to an actual rampant growth. I haven't thought this out, but this video only glosses over it, which doesn't seem fair. So let's think about it here. DR: T1 +2 mana RG: T1 N/A RG: T2 -2 mana RG: T3 -1 mana RG: T4 +0 mana RG: T5 +1 mana RG: T6 +2 mana Of course there are infinite other factors to consider here (game length, land vs spell synergies, card advantage, what you're using the mana for, etc). But this should make it pretty clear why Dark Ritual sees competitive play in every format it's legal in (including commander), but rampant growth sees none anywhere. So excluding other factors, the only time a Rampant Growth could be better than a Dark ritual at ramping is in a casual game (more than 6 turns long), and even then ONLY at the beginning of the game. (Since Mid or late game the land RG fetches won't be around long enough to earn its value back.) Dark Ritual produces more mana in every other scenario. Food for thought.
I will give you - this is an extremely well thought out argument. And I feel this argument 100 percent applies to every competitive constructed format. But the same does not fully apply to casual commander. **** Why it works in constructed formats (of note, I am intentionally ignoring Storm combo): 1) Fewer opponents: Casting Dark Ritual into something like a turn two Sheorldred after casting Thoughtseize on turn one (or turn one Hypnotic Specter for us Magic Boomers) is card DISadvantage. However, being down a single card for the tempo advantage is a valuable tradeoff. It's much easier to "protect the Queen" against one opponent than against three. 2) Lower life totals: It doesn't matter how many cards your opponent has in hand if they're already dead - this same philosophy is why burn decks are effective in competitive constructed formats. 3) Now is always better: In formats with Dark Ritual, there are no "setup" turns. I may not have the hand I ended my turn with once my opponent is done with their turn. If, one turn two, I were to play a Rampant Growth intending on casting Sheoldred on turn three, there's a decent chance my opponent will have Thoughtseized it from my hand. Or maybe, because they were on the draw, they didn't have the second land to hold up Counterspell or Mana Leak. ---- Why it DOESN'T work in Commander (instead of merely saying the opposite of the list above, I'm going to illustrate OTHER reasons): 1) Snowball: To take on multiple opponents, it requires more powerful and resilient threats. Moreover, it requires accruing value over multiple turns often times with multiple permanents. If you want to deploy two 3-drops, a 4-drop and a 5-drop, Dark Ritual can let you do ONE of those ahead of schedule. Yes, it will be TWO turns ahead, but the rest will be "on time." A Rampant Growth will allow you to cast ALL of them a turn ahead of schedule. 2) Mana curves are higher: A Sheoldred in competitive constructed is likely the highest mana value card in my deck that I am expecting to cast for its actual mana cost. Or if I don't have Sheoldred, maybe I turn one Dark Ritual into Thoughtseize followed up by Hymn to Tourach. A turn two Dark Ritual in Commander is going to accelerate out... what? Your Thran Dynamo? Your turn five Runescar Demon? A turn seven Expropriate? 3) Alternative uses for situational cards: If I don't need the Dark Ritual, I can maybe pitch it to a Chrome Mox or (before it was banned in Legacy) Grief. Maybe I can cast it and then delve it away to a Gurmag Angler. 4) PIPs: In a competitive constructed format, it is far more likely you will have cards requiring the same color of mana. If you have a three-color commander that is just three or four total mana value (in this example, I am assuming the color identity is coming ONLY from its casting cost AND fringe scenarios like partners such as Armix and Nocturo), Dark Ritual is not going help you cast your commander ahead of time.
@@crawdaddy1234 Fantastic examples: I really love your boomer mentions; it makes me feel right at home. Haha You make good points, and they're points that I intentionally didn't consider. The "WHAT" you're ramping into. I totally agree with your sentiment about tempo and card advantage, and that those need to be considered. I would argue that BOTH decks need to consider it, however. If you're looking to snowball (ramp into ramp into ramp for example), then you don't want DR. Rrampant growth is probably better every time. However, if you're looking to put your opponent on the back foot, then they have to deal with your Sheoldred instead of ramping or developing... if they can. Another great example of it being better in casual commander is in the kind of situation where cards don't matter. If I'm playing a Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor deck, for example, then I couldn't care less that DR is card disadvantage... And I don't care if the stuff I'm ramping into is dealt with either-I just want to keep my foot on the gas... And I'd personally still call that a viable strategy in casual commander. A real personal example I just thought of: I own a "The Watcher in the Water" deck that's fun to play but not good. High Tide is a fantastic card in my deck as I'm trying to draw on everyone else's turns. Not spell-slinging, just trading mana for cards. Not a perfect example because Blue doesn't HAVE rampant growth, but even if it did, I wouldn't even be playing those cards at the same time in a game. If I had both in hand, I wouldn't want to High Tide into The Watcher, and I wouldn't want to Rampant Growth if I have The Watcher in play. I guess what I'm trying to say, that I suppose you already agreed with, is that DR and RG are very different. Where we diverge is that I propose one isn't strictly more playable than another. That is, unless "playable" just refers to percentage of decks, because I DO think more people want to snowball vs turbo. If we're talking ONLY ramp potential, then it's actually quite ridiculous to say that Rampant Growth is better... Which is the actual argument Demo was making here 4:43. He even made the egregious mistake of saying it's "not disputable", which causes people like you and me to come out of the woodwork to discuss it. haha (There is real monetary value for being divisive as a content creator, though.) 🤷♂ Thanks for replying with an equally well thought out argument. Doesn't usually happen like this, does it?
@ No, it certainly doesn't. lol And I will say that I think Gix or K'rrik or Araya or Skutheryx are all excellent decks for Dark Ritual; in fact, DR is in 80 percent of Gix decks, 89 percent of K'rrik decks, 69 percent of Araya decks, and 79 percent of Skittles' decks). Also, EVERY Storm deck that touches black should be playing DR. However, I would not want it in a Sheoldred COMMANDER deck (79 percent usage) (very different than constructed competitive formats lol) or a Braids deck (75 percent usage). In fact, if they freed the original Braids, I think DR into turn 2 Braids would actually be kinda... bad. ---- I do want to clarify my examples, because I don't think I explained that point well. DR into something on turn 5 is not likely what you're trying to win with. Unless you're using Dark Ritual into Finale of Devestation, because you need that two extra mana to hit C-Hoof, To illustrate using a snowball rolling down a hill: Dark Ritual makes that turn/slope steeper, but the next turn, the slope is flat (and therefore slows a bit) before picking up again. Whereas using Rampant Growth makes for a constant slope. ---- Ultimately though, I think the BIGGEST hurdle for Dark Ritual is color identity. If your mana-producing cards aren't yielding 24 mana (e.g., Mana Geyser) or helping you cast your commander, it needs to do something truly unique (e.g., Jeska's Will or Braid of Fire).
@@crawdaddy1234 Totally agree, and I like the slope analogy. I didn't bother looking up the actual numbers - probably should've done that. Haha. Yeah, turn 2 Braids sounds like a bad move. . . I'm still enamoured by DR later in a game, though. That's when RG is weakest, color identity isn't as big of a hurdle, you've had opportunities to compensate for the card disadvantage, and you have the potential for nastier double-spelling. Ramping into 4-mana Sheoldred off DR doesn't sound great. Ramping into Sheoldred+Windfall off DR does sound great, though. I think after our discussion, for me personally, it comes down to the deck's drawing. If I'm playing a deck that's going to be drawing a lot throughout the game, I'd actually prefer DR over RG. Get those cards out-of-hand ASAP. Ol' Faithful type vibes. But if I'm playing a more resilient, snowball, inevitability type of gameplan, I'd prefer RG over DR. Honestly, though, now that we're cooking... Why not both? Am I crazy? Not to Dark Ritual into a Rampant Growth, but to Rampant Growth and THEN Dark Ritual. Double-spell on turn 3 with 6 mana sounds pretty tight, and with RG shining early, and DR shining late, I don't even feel like they step on eachother's toes. What do you think? Should I just go back into the kitchen? Lol
@ If you come up with a deck that can utilize both, please come back to this and show me. I would be very interested in that list. ---- I think you are right: Decks that want a burst and/or can more quickly recoup the lost card are more likely to benefit from DR; whereas snowballing decks are more likely to benefit from RG.
As boardwipe protection, black has "Wail of the Nim" and "Dark Dabbling" to regenerate all creatures. Certainly not as good as other colors, but they might be good candidates for a "10 cards" video since they're relatively unique effects in the color!
I really don't think any color should be allowed to be really bad at card draw. You're pretty much always going to want to play a land and a spell each turn, but you only naturally draw a single card. This doesn't even have to break the color pie. Blue gets all the unconditional draw, Black causes you to lose life, Green and White get conditional card draw, and Red gets impulse draw. Just give Red something like a 4 mana exile 5 and you can play those until the end of your next turn.
Hmmmm, maybe I'm biased, but I think Green is actually quite good at removal! Sure, there are technically no real boardwipes, but Ezuri's Predation sure is a pretty damned good imitation of a board wipe! It won't get every creature, but it also leaves you with a great big fat pile of 4/4s in most cases. Stuff like Arachnogenesis, and Galadrim Ambush are also pretty wipe-like under a wide variety of situations. I've built any number of mono-green decks, and always found that I could wrest the board state back in my favor in most cases. Also has tons of options for getting rid of enchantments and such. I think the other part of this is subtle though. Green is far less concerned with "Oh, gosh, you have a horde of creatures over there" than other colors. I mean, you have fogs out the wazoo, you have ways to raise masses of creature lands and similar stuff very quickly. It is going to take a really MONSTER zombie horde or something to scare a well-built green deck!
I have 3 mono red decks and i can say handily that it's the weakest color in casual, it can do storm and combo in more sweaty spaces but when playing battle cruiser it struggles with its poor ramp, removal, and non-existant card draw. But saying that, the idea of wizards doing to red what happened with white would make me despise the color. Stay weak red, that's why i love you
What red is really good at and that maybe should be a category on it's own is putting a clock on the table, with burn/ goad ecc... It also has some of the strongest comboy cards in the format. It's still true that in a vacuum he is the worse color but it's an amazing support color and imho it shines there!
Facts baby. Been saying this for years! White is the overall best mono color hands down. Green is a relatively close second, but white is just so good! It's also the best 'support' color, adding all of it's strengths to any other color's weaknesses.
I really love playing with colorless decks so all these seem to easy mode to me...because if can win with colorless I can win with anything. Saying black has better card draw than blue is a very hot take. Green is way overated...gets really blown out by board wipes as it can really slow their mana dorks and especially shut down their card draw. The gap between colors is relatively minimal depending largely on the strategy and commander.
Saying wheel of fortune is bad is wild. Kinda the piint of it is to play it when you have fee cards and your opponents are ahead in card advantage. It also works as interaction because it destroys sculpted hands. But I agree red is the worst. (Impulse deaw aint *that* bad though, I like it a lot)
Plus, bounce-then-counter is a legitimate strategy. I get why bounce would be considered temporary removal, but only on an instant/sorcery. On a permanent like Hullbreaker Horror... It doesn't feel like soft removal. Lol
next round add the commanders into the consideration. may or may not move the needle but it'd be interesting to factor the commanders and what they are doing into the equation. this list an approach to evaluating the colors is fine, but i think the nuance that doesn't quite come through is the interaction of cards within its colors and how the colors actually play. it is easy to look at green's draw for example and say that it is just ok based on the cards available for raw card draw, but no one really builds in a way where they are solely relying on that card draw spell as a stand alone. that player is likely building in a way that allows them to rely on a big creature being on the board to cast the draw spell that will next 8+ cards even if it means waiting a little while to do so. black's removal suite is not bad but it is amazing when it is tied to sac effects that forces others to sac while recurring your own sacrificed creatures. all in all this listing is not bad but there is still more to consider and that is probably asking too much to dive in and weigh all the ways the colors are doing each of these things within the various strategies that they are likely to employ. that and no matter how you do it red will still come out dead last 😆
Solid review. Pretty much everything you said I’ve come to the same conclusion on. In my small brain opinion I think too many people have bypassed towards a particular color. Also I’m disappointed in the lack of GO LEM categories.
White has always been underrated in mtg and always hated because white dosen't get card draw when it does havr a few options but everything else is ethier fine or great at
I think having a hand disruption category would be important to recognize. Obviously black gets the nod there but I think blue could have a bit... a little bit of red... not sure about the others. It definitely gives a game-play advantage when it's used. Maybe it all kind of lumps into the tutor category in a way? Anyway, just my thoughts on it. Seems like it should be a consideration, anyway.
One thing white is bad at is convincing players that it is actually good. As a color, it rarely does anything flashy, so it rarely captures attention. That doesn't make the color bad at any part of gameplay, which is why it is the best. Just the perception of the color is affected.
I'm surprised there's no "direct damage" category. I.E. the ability to hurt people without combat damage, I've seen a lot of games ended without any creatures even swinging.
It really makes no thematic sense why white was given strong removal over red. Red is impulsive, it should be able to destroy stuff, but no, we have to give that to White which has literally everything else except large creatures.
I feel like some of these categories are overrated, and others are underrated. Great video! I love hearing your thoughts on this kinda stuff. Any plans for a color popularity video again?
Honestly, out of all the colors, Red should realistically be tutoring the most. Red is the epitome of "I want it now," so why is it not tutoring better than every other color? Red should be getting cards that say Search your library for a creature card or search for an artifact and it deals damage to you equal to its mana cost or deals damage equal to the number of cards in an opponents hand or something similar to that. Wizards really needs to give Red some more love. It really is the worst color in the format by itself. Red also completely folds backwards to removal. I hope Wizards improves Red over time.
@@EvanRussellB 1-10 scale is just a way to weight things heavier compared to 1-5. Some cards are relatively much better in certain categories than others.
Red because it’s the most fun. Big x burn spells, doubling, rituals and dragons. Red + blue allows it to stand a chance in modern metas (you won’t like it unless you like spell slinging) Obviously if you want purely casual power green is the best still
White originally being the worst color in commander to being the best. No other color has been pushed so hard for better cards than white. Every year it gets more support, more ramp, more card draw, more counterspells, more removal, and so on. Can't say the other colors get the same treatment.
I think if you would weight the categories, red would win by a landslide! Because it wins in the most valuable categorie by far. Which you didn't even mention! Which is: Having fun! Just kidding obviously. On a casual level I pretty much agree with your list. But if not casual, the most important things are presenting wins, protecting wins and preventing wins. Black finds the wins. Blue protects and prevents them. But that's not what we here for! So: Good list on your side! Keep it up!
I find that Red doesn't align with the more-meta ways that people approach the format, and excels if you're able to provide consistent pressure over the course of a game. Pairing it with another color tends to erase this issue, but mono-red needs assertive, aggressive decks. Yet I find people try to play 'aggro' with 50 mana sources + an average CMC of 4+, then wonder why it isn't effective. Mono-red has to as-such juggle plates and adapt to the course of the game, applying pressure to disrupt combo but also ensuring that they don't leave midrange unchecked. Wheels have a huge benefit when you're able to dump your hand and they serve double-duty as disruption. Price of Progress is a stellar finisher, but so is Insult // Injury. If the pod's power is on the higher end of the scale, Blood Moon/magus, Ruination, and From the Ashes all equalize it. The trouble is that as a result, unless you have commanders that really unlock a deck's play style - Krenko, Farid, Zada - it winds up having a limited playstyle. If red prison-style cards weren't socially excluded from the format, Red would be able to unlock a good bit more variety.
I’d love to see you do a seperate category for colorless stuff. I just discovered walking atlas and I love it. T1 sol ring and him. Turn two two extra lands in mono blue or red or black or dimir or rakdos or whatever color pair struggles with ramp? That’s awesome.
I generally agree that red is not as good, but, and I know... you're probably not wanting more metrics to measure by... if you want to measure what Red is better at, you should look at the 'passive payoff' effects. Things like 'Fate Unraveler', or 'Zurzoth, Chaos Rider'... where "when X happens, X also happens" - Black, and arguably Blue (but not nearly for damaging effects) are better, but Red certainly has plenty MORE options, and certainly more VARIED options. The reason Red is less powerful in Commander however is do to its design space in Standard/Modern. - IE: The reason it is good in combat is due to it's haste (and early burn for small creature removal), aka aggro... but aggro is better when life totals start at 20. Thus, red can be bursty in Commander, but tends to have less longevity and fewer other options, relying on damage multipliers, or paring with other colors for more 'combo' style effects.
Blue has draw without penalty type of cards. I would put Blue at Number 1 for draw, then green or white, then black or red. Black has deathgrip (green counter spell)
green is my favorite color ir magic, but i'm gonna give white a little more attention now this is an amazing video, i've had a lot of fun watching do the 10 combination of double colors!!
People do focus on cost too much but are you absolutely sure that cost doesn't matter for a board wipe if some number of your opponents can get around it in some way? I can think of a couple strong reasons why cost matters a lot in those situations. Follow-up and holding up interaction.
Why is it a "terrible argument" to say untappers are ramp in Blue? I put several untappers in my mono-blue deck in the "ramp" category and they fill that role decently well. It's true that they're not as cheap as Green dorks, but they do have the upside of being able to untap Sol Ring, Worn Powerstone, and especially Nykthos to produce extra mana.
I think Demo’s evaluation about almost anything in the format is heavily influenced by the “dies to removal” argument. That’s why he only counts white and green as able to “truly” ramp, and doesn’t count mana rocks as real ramp. This would extend to the blue untappers. You see this point of view come in to play when he talks about not making threatening plays because removal will be sent your way, or loving ETB creatures (half of the value up front before removal can happen)
@@gabrielkopp9248 To be fair, including mana rocks in the ramp category is kind of a moot point because they are available to every color and color combination. Maybe that means every color gets a 6/10 minimum because of mana rocks with green, white, and black getting 10, 8, and 7 respectively.
@ just because they are available to every color doesn’t mean they aren’t ramp, unless you’re saying that the ramp ranking is how well they ramp outside of rocks. I guess I would take issue with not classifying them as ramp because they are more susceptible to removal that lands
So, as far as draw is concerned I’d argue that you’re a touch too literal here. From a functional point of view it doesn’t actually matter if you can literally draw cards, what matters is the ability to turn through your deck and see a large number of cards. Card advantage is the name of the game, and I agree with your order of rankings here. But the reason I and many others don’t complain and is that red has the best designed source of card advantage. Impulse draw, the ability to exile cards and play them for a limited time solves that problem. In none of my red decks don’t have a situation where I need more draw because I can find what I need at least as well as in any other deck that isn’t black or green. And I’m a little surprised to hear you ignore the fact that not all the colors are the same and should be different. This seems like you’re saying they should print red harmonizes and esper sentinels and you’re someone who I think regularly pushes for the game to remain diverse
I think his assessment was fine. Red has poor "card advantage". "Card Advantage" isn't always in the form of draw, such as a board wipe reducing your opponents advantage, or mass reanimation trading one card for many. Impulse draw is typically just good "card selection". You are seeing more options, but aren't always getting ahead on resources.
Green and Blue. Green has crazy ramp/artifact/enchantment removal and limited card draw. Blue has draw power, cloning/possessing permanents and Extra Turns. No other colors even comes close to the power of Simic. I can play Simic with literally any commander and I can easily win games because Simic is doing whatever any other casual deck is doing but better, and it's not even close. Other colors don't ramp as well, nor can they draw as many cards, nor do they have the best high end plays.
Ranking colora is so hard, it all depends on categories so everyone can make their statement based on their approach to categories. So, looking at your way the only thing I guess should be taken under consideration is that blue counters can also be included in protection category without a doubt, and partially in removal too, as a way to deal ie. with enchantments. Sort of but definitelly counters have a role in these "instant" categories.
I'd rank it Green, Blue, Black, White, Red. Green has so many cards that just hold your hand. Black used to be MTG's most versatile colors, but that versatility comes at a cost. Green ignores that cost, and feels like it constantly betrays its own themes in doing so. MTG is a resource game, and Green absolutely does that best, while also being immune via social stigma to things that would hinder its gameplan.
4:40 If you Rampant growth on turn two it will not be mana positive until turn five, and it will not be MORE mana positive than Dark Ritual until turn seven. Both are incredibly strong, and I definitely do like durable land ramp, but don’t discount the huge advantage of getting a “free” two mana at any point. Dark ritual is still plenty good late game and fits in to a turn/curve incredibly well too
Dark ritual is +2 mana. On turn 4, you have got the same amount of extra mana out of a turn 2 rampant growth. On turn 5 you are mana positive over a Dark ritual. I agree with your points, they are both strong. I would say that dark ritual has a higher chance of setting your self up for a 2-for-1. For example, 4 mana commander on turn 2 with ritual versus turn 3 with rampant growth. After removal/wipe you still have the land.
You spend two mana on a rampant growth and one on a dark ritual, so on turn 5 you are only +1 on mana whereas ritual is +2. They are even on turn 6 and rampant growth breaks in to the lead on turn 7. If I could only ever play one it would definitely be Rampant Growth, for sure
Don't really have a problem with the ranking the only thing I find weird is the disregard for creatures, maybe is the kind of player I am but my go-to wincon is always combat
I would tend to agree with your ranking, strange however when you look at deck color rankings, white green or white green blue are the least played color combinations, command zone just recently ranked the colors putting blue and green at the top and white in fourth place just above red, I could only agree that green black and blue can be super strong as supporting colors. My mono white deck is almost impossible to stop whereas my mono greens are always lacking answers and easy to trip up.
I never really considered that Blue (by itself) isn't that great at Recursion. I guess there was an assumption that it *has* to be, purely because it's THE colour for mill effects. Then again, that's really only applicable when talking about self-milling and that's not really how most people play with the mechanic I've gathered. On another note, renaming "Counters" to "Stack Interaction" should also mean it includes more than JUST counters of different flavours. That's why I think both White and Green should be bumped up a point each, for Combat Tricks alone. There's also Flash (and stapling it onto spells) that should be considered, but Blue probably still beats out anyone else there.
Take all of this with a grain of salt. I only recently got into Commander. That's why overall, this Video has been incredibly helpful and informative for me. Genuinely almost forgot to say that instead of *just* my nitpicks ._.' Thanks a ton!
I feel like you skipped over green in the removal section, it's fantastic at getting rid of artifacts and enchantments both destroy and exile effects, and also the fight spells are incredibly good, well costed creature removal never mind that green is usually gonna be such a threat that opponents will be forced to block at some point, pretty much the only weakness is boardwipes
I think black is decent at combat with deathtouch and flying options. Then again my only black decks are very demon focused… I think it would be super cool to do a ranking of the two color combinations someday.
that's a very good approach to that, and yeah, red definitely feels the weaker of the bunch. while it's been a while I think white is the strongest colour by itself. while I feel like green is probably the best companion colour - or colour to add to splash to, if you're expanding on a 1-2 coloured deck. now, if we think mono coloured decks, red isn't too bad I think - there are some wild decks out there. (thinking Toralf/Krenko)
I'd rank them the same. I play almost exclusively mono Red decks and pretty much every game it feels like I'm 10 years behind everybody else in card quality but that's also what makes it fun. On one hand I kinda wish Red got some support but on another I really enjoy having to be smart and work hard to get the most out of my cards, and it's the only colour remaining to me that "feels good" to play.
Someone already put it im here, but ive been sold on Red Ramp. Dowsing Device, Brass's tunnel Grinder, do great with treasure synergies. Or even just with Scampering surveyor and solemn. Throw in a Surveyors Scope, with bounce lands. Richard did a whole mono red package that i put in all my decks with red and no white or green.
Also what has been brought up. But i think a mono red is really under rated but its hard to quantify. Mana gyser wins as many games as craterhoof.. and it only costs 5... mizzix mastery, underworld breach.. i think a way to put it is, the overall quality of red cards are the worst but the best red spells are insane
Black counter summon: Withering Boon
The worst kind of counter
Red also gets "additional attack steps" effects to further bolster its combat strength. It also does pretty well with combat damage pumping effects. Just wanted to add that.
and blue extra turns
You must remember the green "Fog" effects (in white "holy day" and in black "darkness") that protect your life from one big atack
Yeah idk how he didn't talk about this when he said things about "protecting life total" literally fog ing a nutshell
51:56 counterspells are also removal and protection in one. They are the hardest group of cards to learn when to play.
People just need to develop a doctrine of use. I see people use counters far too often to curtail opponents instead of protecting their wins or saving themselves. Go in with parameters of what you will and won’t counter and you will always have a counter when you need it
Great breakdown. I appreciate the effort you put into the ranking this time!
Edit: Combat gets a little messy. I feel that black has lots of menace and deathtouch with decent flying options. The messy part is when you look into combat tricks. Black has 'slingshot' cards, red has those +1 +0 iterations, white has spells that deals with attacking/blocking creatures conditionally.. it's a good category for sure!
15:35 I think Red having so much artifact support, and it historically relying so much on artifacts, leads people to ignore issues with Red that can be covered over with artifacts. I don't agree with that, but I see that attitude a lot. I think one of the other things that keeps people from complaining about Red's weaknesses is that it's both kind of always been the weakest color and has the strongest color identity.
I feel like a solid argument can be made for green blue or white being number 1. Red is a nightmare to play though. No ramp options, limited removal, almost no tutors, zero card advantage effects. Wizards need to give red some non-busted card draw effects that are just pure advantage.
A red Teferi’s would be amazing too. Something like “Exile all non land permanents you control until your next up keep. Those permanents gain haste. Sacrifice them at the beginning of the next end step.”
Eh. I think impulse draw is severely underrated, and I don’t even play much red. Commander is won by having one burst play, and red can gain masses of mana and impulse draw lots of cards in one turn, which wins games. It’s just underutilized.
@@snowmanO07 have you considered that on some level the reason you don't play red much is because it lacks card advantage? There are some symptoms of this that aren't obvious. Impulse draw is nice, but for every time that you exile a big splashy spell with your jeskas will and have the mana to cast it, there will be other times where you exile a land and two spells that don't have red in their cost and it can feel pretty rough. Not only that, but your opponents are aware of these cards. Exiling interaction with impulse draw often feels pretty rough. You are essentially accepting that you are waving goodbye to a core piece of any deck or, using it on a sub optimal target at the table because 'might as well, if I don't it's gone forever'
@@TenousPlan I don’t play red much because I haven’t found a compelling mono red commander any of the times I was ready to build a deck. You have correct points, but this is exactly why I think it is just misunderstood and underrated. Impulse draw can often get you more cards for the mana or effort than traditional drawing gets you. Playing a mana geyser and then casting whatever else is available may land as sub-optimal for that card sometimes, but if you do something like that 4 turns in a row there is still card advantage occurring. It may not be as procured or as optimal as having a couple cards in hand that you plan out playing, but it is card advantage nonetheless. Different doesn’t mean inferior is all I’m saying, and I think the general player base is naive or inexperienced at making this form of card advantage just as good.
@@snowmanO07 I think its def better than people give it credit for. That new mono red commander Dragonhawk, Fate's tempest is a good example. Repeatable impulse draw especially is on par with card draw in my eyes. Theres also stuff like valakut exploration that generate a TON of advantage in landfall decks. as a matter of fact, it's the main wincon in my Storm deck that casts reshape the earth on storm count 2 or 3 to drop 30 lands into play lol
For Red ramp you can consider new cards like Brass’s Tunnel-Grinder and Dowsing Device. They don’t go in every deck but if you have synergy they flip easily
Richard would approve
@@dariocampanella7992 this is probably Richard's alternative account
*cries as a mono red mage*
Underworld Breach? That card is nuts. Mizzix Mastery? Feldon of the Third Path as well.
I love mono red but I agree that red is at the bottom 😞
Akromas will is a 4 cost white spell that closes out the game
White is my favorite color since I started ❤
44:00
For red tutors, there are tons of creature type specific tutors, where you can search for a Goblins or a dragon, etc. Red has a lot there, which is incredibly limited, but common enough to be relevant.
And Imperial Recruiter is a bit more broad.
Green and white are the best at protection
I'd be curious in a video that discusses the best 2 color combos and another about 3 color combos, especially because if red has such good combat, does that add enough value to a bad combat color to make red worthwhile?
Here's a though to other categories that could be included in the future:
> Spellslinging: lightning Bolt, storm effects, Browbeat, Twincast, Flame Rift, Sovereigns Bite, Sorin's Revenge, Chandra's Ignition, and other cards where casting is used to get ahead
damage spells and multiple cast effects on your cards, typically instants and sorceries but ETB triggers like impact tremors could kinda pseudo slide in here too since youre "casting for an effect". I don't build these decks so I dont have many examples to list
> Theft: Insurrection, Elder Brain, Yawgmoth's Vile Offering, Blatant Theivery, Virtue of Persistence, Mob Rule, Stolen Strategy, Sower of Temptation, Mind Flayer
Taking cards that aren't yours, especially useful to pad your own deck with effects from other colors, though not reliably
> Creature boosting and dragging: giving and taking away +1/1 counters, deathtouch, flying, reach, haste, trample, indestructible, doublestrike, etc
Obviously each color mainly sticks to certain keywords but not all keywords are created equal, like i dont care if your creatures have deathtouch if i can fly over them anyways. This one would be harder to objectively pick out a winner due to subjectivity
I will also mention that Land removal wasnt counted under your removal section, which red is much better than the other colors at doing. Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Ruination, Blood Sun, Sinkhole, Choking Sands, Thermokars, Aftershock, Armageddon. Yes its not nice, but sometimes its necessary especially in EDH when everyone is playing command tower, triomes, and other mana fixing lands
We need to normalize land removal. As long as it isn’t mass land removal, idk why people get so butthurt about it. Lands are extremely strong these days, and I agree red deals with them best. It’s just unpopular to do it 🤷♂️
I think you’re missing the point of the video. It’s not about evaluating every mechanic of the game; it’s about evaluating the aspects of the game most broadly needed to win. If I were to include the mechanics you mentioned, I would actually expand “Combat” to be “Win Conditions.”
Been waiting for this video 😊
What about extra turns/combat? Where do those fall?
Something the video didn’t touch on-and that’s often underrated-is how fast red is as a color in Commander. Sure it's not as versatile nor resilient as the other colors, but I feel like it makes up for that by being incredibly cost-effective, with a much lower average casting cost compared to other colors. This allows red to make big plays and even win the game seemingly out of nowhere, catching opponents completely off guard. It's also really effective in deploying repeatable sources of incidental damage and damage doublers, putting the game on a fast clock. That speed and efficiency are what make red so powerful.
Yes but in commander? Who is gonna play against the goblin deck that kill everyone on turn 5
I think blue is Third in ramp.
Some Mana dorks, untappers, clone effects, Mitotic Manipulation, Retraced Image, Steal effects, cost reductions etc
But getting urborg and coffers is way easier and you can easly tutor
Red also has the extra combat shenanigans, it is the best at goad and best at manipulating blockers. In my opinion green is the clear second best but it isn’t as close to red as others think in my opinion.
What about Phyrexian mana or paying life? Black is the best at that and while it isn’t conventional ramp, using life as a resource instead of mana is something that can accelerate you out in front of most decks that don’t include green.
Great video, I enjoyed hearing your perspectives.
Also remember powerful categories of magic that are inherently likely to win you games. Just because you don’t include black tutors doesn’t mean it’s objectively the most powerful thing you can do. It only takes two mana to tutor a win and at higher levels with the zero mana rocks and free interaction that’s what makes the demonic consultation thassas oracle win so strong. Right before that you can demonic tutor for the piece you need. And that is powerful. I think black is sometimes so powerful that people don’t play its best pieces casually making it seem lower. It’s not fun casually but it’s effective.
I think there's a couple cards that need honorable mentions:
Felton of the Third Path is fantastic recursion in red. I run it in my mono-red deck, and I've seen it as commander to my detriment.
Black has Darkness (a fog) and Withering Boon (a creature counterspell), both of which are worth at least a consider in any mono-black list.
Sudden Spoiling and some of the other split second cards in black is a great stack interaction.
Reject modernity. Go colorless. Forsaken monument go BRRRRRRRRR
I agree with just about everything you said regarding red. I’ll give you a good example: one of the first decks I ever made was (surprise) Krenko. In the last few years I look in every new aer for new cards that will make the deck just that much better. I’ve spent a lot of time and $ getting it to where it is. And I’ve won lots of games, but it’s expensive, and pretty much everyone now knows how easy it is to beat. A few weeks ago, I decided to put together a mono white Thalia deck, just with cards I already have. I didn’t win with it, but I shut everyone down the whole game and just about got the win. And it took almost no effort, so I agree with you on that front. The one thing I disagree on, tho, is that red does have one tutor that is great - Goblin Recruiter. It’s a one card tutor that can win the game on the turn after it’s played, or the same turn if you can draw the top card. The only trick is you have to have 3 red mana available. There’s even a red card that can tutor for Goblin Recruiter- Imperial Recruiter. It’s one of those “I just win” so I only use it if it’s more competitive. Other than that, tho, I agree with you completely.
Three weeks ago I commented on the other ranking and mentioned being interested in an update, this is AWESOME!
50:05 It should also be noted that Snapcaster doesn’t allow you to use the Overload.
A category that might be worth adding: Mana cheating.
Reanimating stuff, play without paying, put onto the battlefield etc.
Also I think permanent ramp where green is easily the best and ritual ramp should both be categories. Super explosive starts with Rite of Flame, Dark Ritual, Elvish Spirit Guide etc. are not nothing and can warp whole games.
46:00
With the Necron Precon that came out, we do have like 5 or 6 options of bringing back Artifacts.
Some of them apply to any artifacts, others are limited to 'Artifact Creatures/Vehicles' but hey, we have a few.
I agree that it gets hazy when you're looking at ramp vs tutoring lands. . . At the same time, though, with how they're spitting out utility lands, green's advantage here is getting harder to ignore.
When my buddy used Archdruid's Charm to tutor his Talon Gates into play in response to his commaner being targeted, it certainly didn't FEEL like ramp. Haha
I would give Black a lot more credit with Ramp because making a ton of mana late game is huge. You wanna fly low, pick apart your opponents strategies, get your own stuff together, then go for the big haymaker. Black has the tutors to make that happen pretty reliably with mana doublers.
I also think wincons should be something to consider. Black has by far the best 1 card & 2 card wincons with how easy they are, and with the best tutors and mana doublers all combined with that it gives them a massive advantage if you really wanted to "metagame the casuals".
So unless you're intentionally avoiding Torment of Hailfire & Demonic tutor, I do think Black is really the strongest in casual commander for these reasons, but it isn't as well rounded as Green or White is.
I learned of the dark magic that is white in the commander format a few years ago and despite me banging my head against the wall and coming up with multiple mono-white decks, they never seem to do anything I want them to do. The only mono white deck I've built and enjoyed was Adeline but that might be because of her overwhelming power. I sit down on a deck building website, put it together, give it a once over just to make sure it looks good, and it just sputters out in the field. I'm more than willing to admit fault here but i just don't understand what I'm doing wrong.
People always say blue is overpowered but it's really because it has the most splashiest spells but blue can't ramp for crap. I think with all things being equal Green really just does everything well it doesn't have the most powerful spells but it's very consistent.
As just a thought experiment, I want to compare Dark Ritual's "ramp" production to an actual rampant growth. I haven't thought this out, but this video only glosses over it, which doesn't seem fair. So let's think about it here.
DR: T1 +2 mana
RG: T1 N/A
RG: T2 -2 mana
RG: T3 -1 mana
RG: T4 +0 mana
RG: T5 +1 mana
RG: T6 +2 mana
Of course there are infinite other factors to consider here (game length, land vs spell synergies, card advantage, what you're using the mana for, etc).
But this should make it pretty clear why Dark Ritual sees competitive play in every format it's legal in (including commander), but rampant growth sees none anywhere.
So excluding other factors, the only time a Rampant Growth could be better than a Dark ritual at ramping is in a casual game (more than 6 turns long), and even then ONLY at the beginning of the game. (Since Mid or late game the land RG fetches won't be around long enough to earn its value back.)
Dark Ritual produces more mana in every other scenario.
Food for thought.
I will give you - this is an extremely well thought out argument. And I feel this argument 100 percent applies to every competitive constructed format. But the same does not fully apply to casual commander.
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Why it works in constructed formats (of note, I am intentionally ignoring Storm combo):
1) Fewer opponents: Casting Dark Ritual into something like a turn two Sheorldred after casting Thoughtseize on turn one (or turn one Hypnotic Specter for us Magic Boomers) is card DISadvantage. However, being down a single card for the tempo advantage is a valuable tradeoff. It's much easier to "protect the Queen" against one opponent than against three.
2) Lower life totals: It doesn't matter how many cards your opponent has in hand if they're already dead - this same philosophy is why burn decks are effective in competitive constructed formats.
3) Now is always better: In formats with Dark Ritual, there are no "setup" turns. I may not have the hand I ended my turn with once my opponent is done with their turn. If, one turn two, I were to play a Rampant Growth intending on casting Sheoldred on turn three, there's a decent chance my opponent will have Thoughtseized it from my hand. Or maybe, because they were on the draw, they didn't have the second land to hold up Counterspell or Mana Leak.
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Why it DOESN'T work in Commander (instead of merely saying the opposite of the list above, I'm going to illustrate OTHER reasons):
1) Snowball: To take on multiple opponents, it requires more powerful and resilient threats. Moreover, it requires accruing value over multiple turns often times with multiple permanents. If you want to deploy two 3-drops, a 4-drop and a 5-drop, Dark Ritual can let you do ONE of those ahead of schedule. Yes, it will be TWO turns ahead, but the rest will be "on time." A Rampant Growth will allow you to cast ALL of them a turn ahead of schedule.
2) Mana curves are higher: A Sheoldred in competitive constructed is likely the highest mana value card in my deck that I am expecting to cast for its actual mana cost. Or if I don't have Sheoldred, maybe I turn one Dark Ritual into Thoughtseize followed up by Hymn to Tourach. A turn two Dark Ritual in Commander is going to accelerate out... what? Your Thran Dynamo? Your turn five Runescar Demon? A turn seven Expropriate?
3) Alternative uses for situational cards: If I don't need the Dark Ritual, I can maybe pitch it to a Chrome Mox or (before it was banned in Legacy) Grief. Maybe I can cast it and then delve it away to a Gurmag Angler.
4) PIPs: In a competitive constructed format, it is far more likely you will have cards requiring the same color of mana. If you have a three-color commander that is just three or four total mana value (in this example, I am assuming the color identity is coming ONLY from its casting cost AND fringe scenarios like partners such as Armix and Nocturo), Dark Ritual is not going help you cast your commander ahead of time.
@@crawdaddy1234 Fantastic examples: I really love your boomer mentions; it makes me feel right at home. Haha
You make good points, and they're points that I intentionally didn't consider. The "WHAT" you're ramping into.
I totally agree with your sentiment about tempo and card advantage, and that those need to be considered. I would argue that BOTH decks need to consider it, however. If you're looking to snowball (ramp into ramp into ramp for example), then you don't want DR. Rrampant growth is probably better every time. However, if you're looking to put your opponent on the back foot, then they have to deal with your Sheoldred instead of ramping or developing... if they can. Another great example of it being better in casual commander is in the kind of situation where cards don't matter. If I'm playing a Gix, Yawgmoth Praetor deck, for example, then I couldn't care less that DR is card disadvantage... And I don't care if the stuff I'm ramping into is dealt with either-I just want to keep my foot on the gas... And I'd personally still call that a viable strategy in casual commander. A real personal example I just thought of: I own a "The Watcher in the Water" deck that's fun to play but not good. High Tide is a fantastic card in my deck as I'm trying to draw on everyone else's turns. Not spell-slinging, just trading mana for cards. Not a perfect example because Blue doesn't HAVE rampant growth, but even if it did, I wouldn't even be playing those cards at the same time in a game. If I had both in hand, I wouldn't want to High Tide into The Watcher, and I wouldn't want to Rampant Growth if I have The Watcher in play.
I guess what I'm trying to say, that I suppose you already agreed with, is that DR and RG are very different. Where we diverge is that I propose one isn't strictly more playable than another. That is, unless "playable" just refers to percentage of decks, because I DO think more people want to snowball vs turbo. If we're talking ONLY ramp potential, then it's actually quite ridiculous to say that Rampant Growth is better... Which is the actual argument Demo was making here 4:43. He even made the egregious mistake of saying it's "not disputable", which causes people like you and me to come out of the woodwork to discuss it. haha
(There is real monetary value for being divisive as a content creator, though.) 🤷♂
Thanks for replying with an equally well thought out argument. Doesn't usually happen like this, does it?
@ No, it certainly doesn't. lol
And I will say that I think Gix or K'rrik or Araya or Skutheryx are all excellent decks for Dark Ritual; in fact, DR is in 80 percent of Gix decks, 89 percent of K'rrik decks, 69 percent of Araya decks, and 79 percent of Skittles' decks). Also, EVERY Storm deck that touches black should be playing DR. However, I would not want it in a Sheoldred COMMANDER deck (79 percent usage) (very different than constructed competitive formats lol) or a Braids deck (75 percent usage). In fact, if they freed the original Braids, I think DR into turn 2 Braids would actually be kinda... bad.
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I do want to clarify my examples, because I don't think I explained that point well. DR into something on turn 5 is not likely what you're trying to win with. Unless you're using Dark Ritual into Finale of Devestation, because you need that two extra mana to hit C-Hoof, To illustrate using a snowball rolling down a hill: Dark Ritual makes that turn/slope steeper, but the next turn, the slope is flat (and therefore slows a bit) before picking up again. Whereas using Rampant Growth makes for a constant slope.
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Ultimately though, I think the BIGGEST hurdle for Dark Ritual is color identity. If your mana-producing cards aren't yielding 24 mana (e.g., Mana Geyser) or helping you cast your commander, it needs to do something truly unique (e.g., Jeska's Will or Braid of Fire).
@@crawdaddy1234 Totally agree, and I like the slope analogy. I didn't bother looking up the actual numbers - probably should've done that. Haha.
Yeah, turn 2 Braids sounds like a bad move. . . I'm still enamoured by DR later in a game, though. That's when RG is weakest, color identity isn't as big of a hurdle, you've had opportunities to compensate for the card disadvantage, and you have the potential for nastier double-spelling. Ramping into 4-mana Sheoldred off DR doesn't sound great. Ramping into Sheoldred+Windfall off DR does sound great, though.
I think after our discussion, for me personally, it comes down to the deck's drawing. If I'm playing a deck that's going to be drawing a lot throughout the game, I'd actually prefer DR over RG. Get those cards out-of-hand ASAP. Ol' Faithful type vibes. But if I'm playing a more resilient, snowball, inevitability type of gameplan, I'd prefer RG over DR.
Honestly, though, now that we're cooking... Why not both? Am I crazy? Not to Dark Ritual into a Rampant Growth, but to Rampant Growth and THEN Dark Ritual. Double-spell on turn 3 with 6 mana sounds pretty tight, and with RG shining early, and DR shining late, I don't even feel like they step on eachother's toes.
What do you think? Should I just go back into the kitchen? Lol
@ If you come up with a deck that can utilize both, please come back to this and show me. I would be very interested in that list.
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I think you are right: Decks that want a burst and/or can more quickly recoup the lost card are more likely to benefit from DR; whereas snowballing decks are more likely to benefit from RG.
As boardwipe protection, black has "Wail of the Nim" and "Dark Dabbling" to regenerate all creatures. Certainly not as good as other colors, but they might be good candidates for a "10 cards" video since they're relatively unique effects in the color!
I really don't think any color should be allowed to be really bad at card draw. You're pretty much always going to want to play a land and a spell each turn, but you only naturally draw a single card.
This doesn't even have to break the color pie. Blue gets all the unconditional draw, Black causes you to lose life, Green and White get conditional card draw, and Red gets impulse draw. Just give Red something like a 4 mana exile 5 and you can play those until the end of your next turn.
Could you do a CEDH best colors?
I looked at all my decks. In each deck that had white in it, white had more pips than any other color. The conclusion rings true.
Bro forgot about Deathgrip and Lifeforce
NOIDED
Oh my I haven't played MTG for 3 years. What has happened?! White is dominating over green. Nice unbiased review.
Hmmmm, maybe I'm biased, but I think Green is actually quite good at removal! Sure, there are technically no real boardwipes, but Ezuri's Predation sure is a pretty damned good imitation of a board wipe! It won't get every creature, but it also leaves you with a great big fat pile of 4/4s in most cases. Stuff like Arachnogenesis, and Galadrim Ambush are also pretty wipe-like under a wide variety of situations. I've built any number of mono-green decks, and always found that I could wrest the board state back in my favor in most cases. Also has tons of options for getting rid of enchantments and such. I think the other part of this is subtle though. Green is far less concerned with "Oh, gosh, you have a horde of creatures over there" than other colors. I mean, you have fogs out the wazoo, you have ways to raise masses of creature lands and similar stuff very quickly. It is going to take a really MONSTER zombie horde or something to scare a well-built green deck!
I have 3 mono red decks and i can say handily that it's the weakest color in casual, it can do storm and combo in more sweaty spaces but when playing battle cruiser it struggles with its poor ramp, removal, and non-existant card draw.
But saying that, the idea of wizards doing to red what happened with white would make me despise the color. Stay weak red, that's why i love you
What red is really good at and that maybe should be a category on it's own is putting a clock on the table, with burn/ goad ecc... It also has some of the strongest comboy cards in the format. It's still true that in a vacuum he is the worse color but it's an amazing support color and imho it shines there!
Facts baby. Been saying this for years! White is the overall best mono color hands down. Green is a relatively close second, but white is just so good! It's also the best 'support' color, adding all of it's strengths to any other color's weaknesses.
I really love playing with colorless decks so all these seem to easy mode to me...because if can win with colorless I can win with anything. Saying black has better card draw than blue is a very hot take. Green is way overated...gets really blown out by board wipes as it can really slow their mana dorks and especially shut down their card draw. The gap between colors is relatively minimal depending largely on the strategy and commander.
Saying wheel of fortune is bad is wild. Kinda the piint of it is to play it when you have fee cards and your opponents are ahead in card advantage. It also works as interaction because it destroys sculpted hands. But I agree red is the worst. (Impulse deaw aint *that* bad though, I like it a lot)
Blue is better than black at removal imo. Counter spells are removal, and even if I bounce something I make sure it's devastating for my opponent
Plus, bounce-then-counter is a legitimate strategy.
I get why bounce would be considered temporary removal, but only on an instant/sorcery. On a permanent like Hullbreaker Horror... It doesn't feel like soft removal. Lol
next round add the commanders into the consideration. may or may not move the needle but it'd be interesting to factor the commanders and what they are doing into the equation.
this list an approach to evaluating the colors is fine, but i think the nuance that doesn't quite come through is the interaction of cards within its colors and how the colors actually play. it is easy to look at green's draw for example and say that it is just ok based on the cards available for raw card draw, but no one really builds in a way where they are solely relying on that card draw spell as a stand alone. that player is likely building in a way that allows them to rely on a big creature being on the board to cast the draw spell that will next 8+ cards even if it means waiting a little while to do so. black's removal suite is not bad but it is amazing when it is tied to sac effects that forces others to sac while recurring your own sacrificed creatures.
all in all this listing is not bad but there is still more to consider and that is probably asking too much to dive in and weigh all the ways the colors are doing each of these things within the various strategies that they are likely to employ. that and no matter how you do it red will still come out dead last 😆
57:20 black has Withering Boon that counters a creature spell
Stax?
Solid review. Pretty much everything you said I’ve come to the same conclusion on. In my small brain opinion I think too many people have bypassed towards a particular color.
Also I’m disappointed in the lack of GO LEM categories.
White has always been underrated in mtg and always hated because white dosen't get card draw when it does havr a few options but everything else is ethier fine or great at
I think having a hand disruption category would be important to recognize. Obviously black gets the nod there but I think blue could have a bit... a little bit of red... not sure about the others. It definitely gives a game-play advantage when it's used. Maybe it all kind of lumps into the tutor category in a way? Anyway, just my thoughts on it. Seems like it should be a consideration, anyway.
Instant speed hexproof or indestructible absolutely should count as stack interaction.
obviously that counts towards the protection category.
One thing white is bad at is convincing players that it is actually good. As a color, it rarely does anything flashy, so it rarely captures attention. That doesn't make the color bad at any part of gameplay, which is why it is the best. Just the perception of the color is affected.
I'm surprised there's no "direct damage" category. I.E. the ability to hurt people without combat damage, I've seen a lot of games ended without any creatures even swinging.
Instead of having this as a separate category, I would expand “combat” to “win conditions.”
Another point for black in draw is being able to fill their graveyard. Black has the most options to use it as a resource.
BEST VIDEO OF THE YEAR!
It really makes no thematic sense why white was given strong removal over red. Red is impulsive, it should be able to destroy stuff, but no, we have to give that to White which has literally everything else except large creatures.
I think red could be above black in ramp because of treasure tokens. I don’t think it’s that much of a drawback that they are only good for one use.
46:00 Magus of the will
I feel like some of these categories are overrated, and others are underrated. Great video! I love hearing your thoughts on this kinda stuff. Any plans for a color popularity video again?
I don’t know how much blue you play, but my braids deck is really really good at making sure nothing stays on their side of the field.
Honestly, out of all the colors, Red should realistically be tutoring the most. Red is the epitome of "I want it now," so why is it not tutoring better than every other color? Red should be getting cards that say Search your library for a creature card or search for an artifact and it deals damage to you equal to its mana cost or deals damage equal to the number of cards in an opponents hand or something similar to that. Wizards really needs to give Red some more love. It really is the worst color in the format by itself. Red also completely folds backwards to removal. I hope Wizards improves Red over time.
I agree with many of these assessments (even as an Izzet mage).
Why are the points on a 1-10 scale?
Why isn't is 1-5?
Did he say why?
Lets him be a bit more granular
@@EvanRussellB 1-10 scale is just a way to weight things heavier compared to 1-5. Some cards are relatively much better in certain categories than others.
Red because it’s the most fun. Big x burn spells, doubling, rituals and dragons.
Red + blue allows it to stand a chance in modern metas (you won’t like it unless you like spell slinging)
Obviously if you want purely casual power green is the best still
White originally being the worst color in commander to being the best. No other color has been pushed so hard for better cards than white. Every year it gets more support, more ramp, more card draw, more counterspells, more removal, and so on. Can't say the other colors get the same treatment.
Green was originally given the greatest push in Commander initially. Also some of its old cards were brilliant.
I think if you would weight the categories, red would win by a landslide!
Because it wins in the most valuable categorie by far. Which you didn't even mention!
Which is: Having fun!
Just kidding obviously. On a casual level I pretty much agree with your list.
But if not casual, the most important things are presenting wins, protecting wins and preventing wins.
Black finds the wins. Blue protects and prevents them.
But that's not what we here for! So: Good list on your side! Keep it up!
Love these videos
I find that Red doesn't align with the more-meta ways that people approach the format, and excels if you're able to provide consistent pressure over the course of a game. Pairing it with another color tends to erase this issue, but mono-red needs assertive, aggressive decks. Yet I find people try to play 'aggro' with 50 mana sources + an average CMC of 4+, then wonder why it isn't effective.
Mono-red has to as-such juggle plates and adapt to the course of the game, applying pressure to disrupt combo but also ensuring that they don't leave midrange unchecked. Wheels have a huge benefit when you're able to dump your hand and they serve double-duty as disruption. Price of Progress is a stellar finisher, but so is Insult // Injury. If the pod's power is on the higher end of the scale, Blood Moon/magus, Ruination, and From the Ashes all equalize it. The trouble is that as a result, unless you have commanders that really unlock a deck's play style - Krenko, Farid, Zada - it winds up having a limited playstyle. If red prison-style cards weren't socially excluded from the format, Red would be able to unlock a good bit more variety.
I’d love to see you do a seperate category for colorless stuff. I just discovered walking atlas and I love it. T1 sol ring and him. Turn two two extra lands in mono blue or red or black or dimir or rakdos or whatever color pair struggles with ramp? That’s awesome.
I’ve never had any trouble drawing cards in mono red
I generally agree that red is not as good, but, and I know... you're probably not wanting more metrics to measure by... if you want to measure what Red is better at, you should look at the 'passive payoff' effects. Things like 'Fate Unraveler', or 'Zurzoth, Chaos Rider'... where "when X happens, X also happens" - Black, and arguably Blue (but not nearly for damaging effects) are better, but Red certainly has plenty MORE options, and certainly more VARIED options.
The reason Red is less powerful in Commander however is do to its design space in Standard/Modern. - IE: The reason it is good in combat is due to it's haste (and early burn for small creature removal), aka aggro... but aggro is better when life totals start at 20. Thus, red can be bursty in Commander, but tends to have less longevity and fewer other options, relying on damage multipliers, or paring with other colors for more 'combo' style effects.
Blue has draw without penalty type of cards. I would put Blue at Number 1 for draw, then green or white, then black or red. Black has deathgrip (green counter spell)
i find that blue falls off quickly if you aren't playing the top few options
green is my favorite color ir magic, but i'm gonna give white a little more attention now
this is an amazing video, i've had a lot of fun watching
do the 10 combination of double colors!!
People do focus on cost too much but are you absolutely sure that cost doesn't matter for a board wipe if some number of your opponents can get around it in some way? I can think of a couple strong reasons why cost matters a lot in those situations. Follow-up and holding up interaction.
Why is it a "terrible argument" to say untappers are ramp in Blue? I put several untappers in my mono-blue deck in the "ramp" category and they fill that role decently well. It's true that they're not as cheap as Green dorks, but they do have the upside of being able to untap Sol Ring, Worn Powerstone, and especially Nykthos to produce extra mana.
I think Demo’s evaluation about almost anything in the format is heavily influenced by the “dies to removal” argument. That’s why he only counts white and green as able to “truly” ramp, and doesn’t count mana rocks as real ramp. This would extend to the blue untappers. You see this point of view come in to play when he talks about not making threatening plays because removal will be sent your way, or loving ETB creatures (half of the value up front before removal can happen)
@@gabrielkopp9248 To be fair, including mana rocks in the ramp category is kind of a moot point because they are available to every color and color combination. Maybe that means every color gets a 6/10 minimum because of mana rocks with green, white, and black getting 10, 8, and 7 respectively.
@ just because they are available to every color doesn’t mean they aren’t ramp, unless you’re saying that the ramp ranking is how well they ramp outside of rocks. I guess I would take issue with not classifying them as ramp because they are more susceptible to removal that lands
Not gonna tip the scales in any way but for stack interaction black has Withering Boon
most fun is red, most abysmal is blue... izzet a good balance...
So, as far as draw is concerned I’d argue that you’re a touch too literal here. From a functional point of view it doesn’t actually matter if you can literally draw cards, what matters is the ability to turn through your deck and see a large number of cards. Card advantage is the name of the game, and I agree with your order of rankings here. But the reason I and many others don’t complain and is that red has the best designed source of card advantage. Impulse draw, the ability to exile cards and play them for a limited time solves that problem. In none of my red decks don’t have a situation where I need more draw because I can find what I need at least as well as in any other deck that isn’t black or green. And I’m a little surprised to hear you ignore the fact that not all the colors are the same and should be different. This seems like you’re saying they should print red harmonizes and esper sentinels and you’re someone who I think regularly pushes for the game to remain diverse
I think his assessment was fine.
Red has poor "card advantage".
"Card Advantage" isn't always in the form of draw, such as a board wipe reducing your opponents advantage, or mass reanimation trading one card for many.
Impulse draw is typically just good "card selection". You are seeing more options, but aren't always getting ahead on resources.
Muck Drubb is beloved in some circles... 😂
Green and Blue. Green has crazy ramp/artifact/enchantment removal and limited card draw. Blue has draw power, cloning/possessing permanents and Extra Turns. No other colors even comes close to the power of Simic. I can play Simic with literally any commander and I can easily win games because Simic is doing whatever any other casual deck is doing but better, and it's not even close. Other colors don't ramp as well, nor can they draw as many cards, nor do they have the best high end plays.
Ranking colora is so hard, it all depends on categories so everyone can make their statement based on their approach to categories. So, looking at your way the only thing I guess should be taken under consideration is that blue counters can also be included in protection category without a doubt, and partially in removal too, as a way to deal ie. with enchantments. Sort of but definitelly counters have a role in these "instant" categories.
I'd rank it Green, Blue, Black, White, Red.
Green has so many cards that just hold your hand. Black used to be MTG's most versatile colors, but that versatility comes at a cost. Green ignores that cost, and feels like it constantly betrays its own themes in doing so.
MTG is a resource game, and Green absolutely does that best, while also being immune via social stigma to things that would hinder its gameplan.
4:40 If you Rampant growth on turn two it will not be mana positive until turn five, and it will not be MORE mana positive than Dark Ritual until turn seven. Both are incredibly strong, and I definitely do like durable land ramp, but don’t discount the huge advantage of getting a “free” two mana at any point. Dark ritual is still plenty good late game and fits in to a turn/curve incredibly well too
Dark ritual is +2 mana. On turn 4, you have got the same amount of extra mana out of a turn 2 rampant growth. On turn 5 you are mana positive over a Dark ritual. I agree with your points, they are both strong. I would say that dark ritual has a higher chance of setting your self up for a 2-for-1. For example, 4 mana commander on turn 2 with ritual versus turn 3 with rampant growth. After removal/wipe you still have the land.
You spend two mana on a rampant growth and one on a dark ritual, so on turn 5 you are only +1 on mana whereas ritual is +2. They are even on turn 6 and rampant growth breaks in to the lead on turn 7. If I could only ever play one it would definitely be Rampant Growth, for sure
Don't really have a problem with the ranking the only thing I find weird is the disregard for creatures, maybe is the kind of player I am but my go-to wincon is always combat
I would tend to agree with your ranking, strange however when you look at deck color rankings, white green or white green blue are the least played color combinations, command zone just recently ranked the colors putting blue and green at the top and white in fourth place just above red, I could only agree that green black and blue can be super strong as supporting colors. My mono white deck is almost impossible to stop whereas my mono greens are always lacking answers and easy to trip up.
I never really considered that Blue (by itself) isn't that great at Recursion. I guess there was an assumption that it *has* to be, purely because it's THE colour for mill effects. Then again, that's really only applicable when talking about self-milling and that's not really how most people play with the mechanic I've gathered.
On another note, renaming "Counters" to "Stack Interaction" should also mean it includes more than JUST counters of different flavours. That's why I think both White and Green should be bumped up a point each, for Combat Tricks alone. There's also Flash (and stapling it onto spells) that should be considered, but Blue probably still beats out anyone else there.
Take all of this with a grain of salt. I only recently got into Commander.
That's why overall, this Video has been incredibly helpful and informative for me. Genuinely almost forgot to say that instead of *just* my nitpicks ._.'
Thanks a ton!
Another great category usefulness as a secondary colour. Rank them by seeing how well they cover the holes in the other colour's.
Counterspells don't count as protection just so it doesn't mess up the ranking? Buuuut... but they are. Turn Aside isn't protection? Lol
I feel like you skipped over green in the removal section, it's fantastic at getting rid of artifacts and enchantments both destroy and exile effects, and also the fight spells are incredibly good, well costed creature removal never mind that green is usually gonna be such a threat that opponents will be forced to block at some point, pretty much the only weakness is boardwipes
ezuri’s predation deals with go wide strategies.
Black also has Withering Boon for a counterspell.
I think black is decent at combat with deathtouch and flying options. Then again my only black decks are very demon focused…
I think it would be super cool to do a ranking of the two color combinations someday.
that's a very good approach to that, and yeah, red definitely feels the weaker of the bunch. while it's been a while I think white is the strongest colour by itself. while I feel like green is probably the best companion colour - or colour to add to splash to, if you're expanding on a 1-2 coloured deck.
now, if we think mono coloured decks, red isn't too bad I think - there are some wild decks out there. (thinking Toralf/Krenko)
I'd rank them the same. I play almost exclusively mono Red decks and pretty much every game it feels like I'm 10 years behind everybody else in card quality but that's also what makes it fun.
On one hand I kinda wish Red got some support but on another I really enjoy having to be smart and work hard to get the most out of my cards, and it's the only colour remaining to me that "feels good" to play.
Someone already put it im here, but ive been sold on Red Ramp. Dowsing Device, Brass's tunnel Grinder, do great with treasure synergies. Or even just with Scampering surveyor and solemn. Throw in a Surveyors Scope, with bounce lands. Richard did a whole mono red package that i put in all my decks with red and no white or green.
Also what has been brought up. But i think a mono red is really under rated but its hard to quantify. Mana gyser wins as many games as craterhoof.. and it only costs 5... mizzix mastery, underworld breach.. i think a way to put it is, the overall quality of red cards are the worst but the best red spells are insane
(All thay being said... white easily is the best color)
Only thing I gotta say is trouble in pairs is the second best card draw card in the format