Eren Yeager and the Insanity of Circular Storytelling
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 เม.ย. 2022
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People say Erwin was three seasons ahead, but Levi was three and a half ahead when he said he could tell Eren was a real monster.
Man it was just the fans that couldn't tell that eren was a psycho, his script is very narcissistic and totally of a person not hold of his emotions, Even brainwashed characters like Reiner had more human in their character and Im talking season 1 and 2
@@KT-pu3gn
It was pretty obvious to me in the first season when he was getting chomped and instead of doing what a normal person would do, just got angrier and angrier.
@@Delimon007 Right? Eren was never normal
@@Delimon007 it was pretty clear with mikasa's backstory a kid going out of his way to kill stabing people to death while screaming "die you pigs" is not normal behaviour and i love how isayama kepet bringing that scean back to remind us of who eren truly is
That's what tragic about his kicking thing because that relationship made sure that Eren would never change his mind. Soon he didn't care about the kicks because they used him, experimented on him and imprisoned him for existing. Its why nobody could talk him out of it.
To be honest, I never understand when people say AoT waits until season 4 to drive home its antiwar message, because to me that message seemed quite evident from the beginning. In the very first episode of season 1 we see a returning Survey Corps squadron being watched eagerly by a young Eren, his eyes filled with respect and admiration, but it's the haunted eyes of the soldiers that tell you you're not supposed to be feeling the same enthusiasm. And then there's that heartbreaking moment when the devastated mother is handed a tiny wrapped bundle and told it's all that remains of her son. Even zipping around with ODM gear, which seems so badass at first, loses some of its appeal once you realize that one miscalculation or damaged fuel container is a veritable death sentence, and not a quick, painless death either (as we witness several times). The job of a Survey Corps member isn't framed as exiting and glamorous, but one that's horrifying and traumatic, with death always looming just overhead (literally, in the Titans' case). While season 4 ramps it up and re-contextualizes it, certainly, AoT has *always* had this very heavy, oppressive "War is Hell" atmosphere, and I could never wrap my head around it when someone would accuse the series of glorifying war or violence or the military. I just never got that vibe from it.
Completely agree, war was never glorified in AoT, though it did glorify the purpose behind wars, contextualizing it in a very black and white way with titans early on. And on top of that it shows that Eren being useful and heroic even against those titan, the same thing can't be said when the enemies are humans, it shows us how fascism can come about very naturally given the wrong environment, basically answered how did the germans let the nazis take over.
@ᴄᴏᴜʀᴛɴᴇʏ ᴡʜɪᴛᴍᴏʀᴇ As someone who started watching the show in their 30s, I never once perceived any sort of pro war message in it. From the very first episode it asks the question of whether or not the Titans are the real enemy. Well, at least I asked that question... seemed like an obvious thing to ask.
wellsaid
@@yuriywankiewicz6689 yeagerists aren't fascist if you that's what you mean.
@@Aswar211 not the nazi kind of that's what you mean
edit- I'm not really making a claim as to what their political affiliation is, just making a note on how people can be easily manipulated into supporting horrendous decisions.
Isayama really is an astoundingly skilled and gifted artist and story teller. One thing I saw in the anime was when Eren caught Annie after Mikasa chopped off her fingers, he didn't say he was going to kill the Titans. He said "I will destroy the whole world." That was another MAJOR moment of foreshadowing Eren's bloodlust and desire to wipe out anyone who threatened the freedom he sought for himself and everyone he held dear.
Also in the anime, when Eren goes berserker mode on Annie, his eyes are glowing blue, which is later associated with the Founding Titan
And people hate on isayama 🤡
@@poppersperi842 pre chapter 137 Isayama is a certified chad.
@@percygekkouga2151 lol we just pretend chapters after 137 do not exist
@@poppersperi842 too based
You saying ''circular story'' while Eren's decapitated head is flying in circle was a power move
I love how Attack Titan's Power is *FORESHADOWING* , not only the show mastered the technique but because it allows us to feel the exact feeling of its onwer...
the best example is when season 2 ED came out and made people confused as hell and its turned out to be a foreshadow that not even happen in manga yet.
people might think "foresight" makes you able to alter the future but in reality you are powerless as you watch the exact scene you already know unravel before your eyes but you cant control it, you can only wonder if this is the only way the story will unfold... *which is exactly how eren felt* .
season 2 ED?
@@gianni206 The Season 2 Ending theme
With that in mind, I love that this seasons Eren is essentially just an actor playing the part he was given. Way different then how he started out
>you can only wonder if this is the only way the story will unfold
*looks at manga ending*
goddammit he got us again!
There also part of Eren hating himself like how people with certain mental illness view themselves negatively.
Eren knew what he did is wrong and the future he saw happen only because he want to do things that inevitably lead to things that he didn't want.
He knew that yet he can't help himself, when he try to look for something different from his future memories, in the hope that he wouldn't do full Rumbling, he failed. And again it loop back to him blaming himself, over and over again.
Plus, how he view himself even worse than Reiner, who despite crushed the wall, in some way was pushed to be warrior in some capacity unlike Eren, whom Carla again and again treat Eren like a good mother, hoping he will just grow healthy and live happily rather than threw his life outside the wall.
It's really is sad. I don't and can't support his action but damn, I feel sympathy toward this dude.
At the very least, Guts in Berserk killing his enemies would change something but not Eren. Because the world of SnK is not just about Eren, it's a criticism of humanity itself.
"To fight monsters, we have to abandon our humanity."
-Armin Arlet
The theme of AOT is one of my favorite themes that any story can tell.
Wait last name isn’t Alert?
@@niarahancock4739 it's Arlert not Alert
Let he who fights with monsters take care not to become a monster, for when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss gazes also into you
The manga ending aside, I love how the story characterized Eren's character with the simplistic nature of Human vs Titans at the beginning, to now the complicated dilemma of Humans vs Humans, and the fact that Isayama is so successful in showing us how these conflicts are dealt with the bloodlust and unshakeable desire for freedom that was always in Eren since the beginning.
(no spoilers fyi) people hate on the story's ending so much but i really think its unjustified. No it was not perfect but it made logical sense, completed each characters arcs (as much as a story like this could), and forced you to meaningfully think about the story's main themes. There are so many stories that I would kill to have endings that were at least competent like AoT's (im looking at you GoT & Lost).
There were definitely some finer points that could have been handled better/explained more, but all in all it still shocks me that some people feel the ending detracted from their overall enjoyment of the story like a truly bad ending would. Solid 7/10 ending
I love the manga ending, fight me!!!
@@The_preserver_x16 I will die on this hill with you my man
not really logically the Alliance would have failed and only succeeded due to plot armor.
you can love something but it's still contrived garbage.
I love the distinction between narrative and plot! I don't think I've heard anyone explain it as well
A narratologist would define the distinction differently, though; plot is (along with narration) in the discursive stratum of narrative. That is, plot is the order in which things are presented, and can be used with different kinds of narration to induce certain types of responses in readers/receivers, whereas the story itself is comprised of the events in the narrative. An easy example would be the film Memento, in which the plot completely changes how viewers perceive the story. (Although in film studies, the terms fabula and sjuzhet are commonly used for this dichotomy.) See e.g. the Cambridge Companion to Narrative for a more in-depth categorization.
complicated categorical distinctions (that are unexplained), made by the previous person who reacted notwithstanding, the distinction is honestly quite simple.
Plot is the series of events happening in a story, that describes the "stuff that happens". In this case, everything happening with the titans, the eldians, the marleyans and the rest of the world.
Narrative is the manner by which these things are shown to the audience, so in this case, dialogue, narration, visual representations, symbolism, flashbacks, etc... Narration does not merely limit itself to plot, but also to character conflict, inner struggle, moral dillema's etc..
Theme is the underlying tone, message, moral or philosophy
Usually, when people talk about "story", what they really mean is a combination of narrative and theme. Plot is comparatively less important to our overall enjoyment of a story, unless we strictly mean in a somewhat superficial sense.
As an example: I do not particularly like the circular plot of attack on titan, because it relies on a time paradox, something that, frankly, wasn't neccessary to convey the elements of the narrative and theme that the show explored. Comparatively, I prefer linear plots. We did not need to have eren's struggle be caused by his future self, even though that future did not yet happen. The elements of his moral downfall were already present in the show at large, so I consider this addition unneccesary, complicated for no reason, and superficial. Only mentally deficient hype-junkies think time paradoxes in fiction are "cool". But that is also their right.
Ultimately, these distinctions happen strictly because we wish to categorize things to indicate what we find enjoyable and what we find irrelevant. A good story has these distinctions, a great story blurs these distinctions, a bad story has an over-indulgence on one category over the other.
I gotta object to the framing that the Marleyans and Eldians are equally morally wrong, the Eldian royal family is literally holding all the people on Paradis hostage, gaslighting them, and committing slow genocide. The Marleyans are doing the exact same to their Eldian population just different gaslighting. The Marleyans are using their Eldians as bioweapons in a full on imperialist war, the Eldian royal's are absolutely refusing to use their people as weapons except in the case of societal control of those people. I don't think you would have it in you to call the survey corps wrong if you could talk to the people who have to live in the walls in fear of Titans, praying that the scouts keep them safe. The regular Eldians especially the ones on Paradis are the real victims here and I'm not the least surprised they want to lash out at a world that has truly done them wrong, they never asked to be Titans and unless you're in the super elite it's death to be turned into one there's nothing left of who you were.
armin and eren were wrong to take so many innocent lives, among others
@@footlover9416 By innocent lives I'm assuming you mean civilians, those so-called innocents consider them Island Devils who deserve death inherently, and are perfectly willing to let their government enslave and oppress the Eldians.
@@footlover9416 who put Armin and Eren into that situation?
@@Darth_Bateman Eren XD
@@schnocksej.6774 Marly. They're the ones that are causing the violence out of bigoted ideals. Eren's lashing out because he see's no alternative, striking back doesn't equal starting the conflict that has been going on for decades.
Innocent lives are taken during war. That's just a thing that's going to happen. However no one is wrong for doing what keeps them and their family alive during said war they are forced into. At most you could call it a lesser evil.
Dont forget, the reason Eren fully unlocked his father's memories was because he was the previous holder of the attack AND founding Titan.
That doesn’t really matter to the point he was making though, he also said he oversimplified it
@@syamhaque8580 no I know, I wasn't saying he was wrong. Just adding additional information.
@@iamlordapollo ah forsure my bad
So things would've gone differently had Grisha not captured the founder? Am I getting this right?
@@syamhaque8580 It does
Great video and it's also crazy that isayama made this kind of peak fiction at the age of 19.😭
Real man
No way I thought he'd at least be 30 when he started it...
I suggest making a series on all the writing tools Isayama uses in the series. That would be really informative and really cool.
That sounds like you read an article on that. Or what exactly do you mean by "writing tools"? Storytelling principles? Research processes? Preparations for a work environment?
Yeah, it could help future writers form amazing storytelling in their own right.
@@LinkEX right, I am also confusion
I think he means literary elements
So glad you are talking anime especially AoT once again, so many of them have incredible characters, amazing writing, and I would love to see you tackle other animated shows (one I may suggest you watch is 86).
I felt 86 was overhyped. I feel it had some interesting ideas, but was held back in some ways.
In the show, there was a line about 'there exists good San Magnolians and evil 86ers.' Well, where is the latter? I'd like to see an in-universe 86 version of Magneto, who doesn't follow the 'be the better man, be better than the San Magnolians.' To want to destroy San Magnolia and create a country for all 86 to migrate to a la Genosha.
Second, in s2, the 86 who survived s1 found peace. But they don't seem to be too enamored by it and the 86 all reenlist. Yes, this may be some form of tragedy where all these kids know is war. But their indifference to peace doesn't make any of them stand out, moreso when they all reenlist without hesitation. I wanted desire that was truly strong enough to make them consider not rejoining, it could be as trivial as the desire to eat well, live well and not die like dogs. In that hypothetical, they reenlist as a form of obligation to fight by the other 86, and die with new dreams of peace unfulfilled. The true poignancy of death is the abrupt end of everything we could ever be, but if the 86 never seem to truly want anything beyond war, their deaths will elicit a flicker of sadness, but not sorrow. At least that s1 86 guy who wanted to get with the white-haired 86 girl died with an unfulfilled desire, I at least recall that.
I feel Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans, for all its shortcomings, was better in their portrayal of child soldiers. These are children, they desire very strongly for things which were never available to them, and they're still not mature enough to always know the right/best thing to do. Revenge, ambition, all of it can elevate as well as cast them down in their pursuit.
@@purupuru333 well, part of the point exploited in 86 season 2 is who want has left them (especially the main character) with no capability to imagine a future, and therefore, no wants. And that's presented as a tragic consequence of them being child soldiers. I think it's a good theme and I like what they are doing with it. Shinei has to learn to want again and to be able to see the future.
@@KatherinaBathory The concept has potential, but I want more out of these s2 86, not just Shin. The 86 gang not wanting anything may indeed be a tragic consequence, yes. But if they continue to not want anything more out of life, they may feel rather one-note and acting as a hive mind (like all of them reenlisting without hesitation).
Maybe they might want more for them as a people. For example, one of them due to their experience in s1 and s2's countries might want more for the 86 as a people, i.e. make a country for the 86. This may create tension in the group but also creates discussion about the future, after the Legion are defeated. Will they continue to allow themselves to be weapons, but this time fighting other humans in mechs, or will they use these talents for themselves? The 86 gang can distinguish themselves based on the opinions they have on the subject.
Not just Shinei, but the rest of the 86. They depise being pitied, but how can people not pity them if all they know is war? They all need to want something for themselves as a result of thinking about the future, otherwise I feel the 'child soldiers who have no wants' feels like a song played on one musical note. The message of the song and theme may be clear. But this song is like Morse Code and doesn't elicit much emotions from me, because the 86 never wanted nor had anything to lose aside from each other.
@@purupuru333 the others do want other things... But they just don't know what there is besides war. That's why I said the one needed to learn that was Shinei. His friends actually want to help him not to be so much like that anymore. I particularly liked the talked he had with Shuga about it.
I think maybe it's just that you wanted something different from what they decided to have their characters war trauma be. It's ok. It's a matter of taste.
@@KatherinaBathory Yeah, there are some things we can agree to disagree on. The fact that they lived in peace in s2 gave the 86 the chance to think what they really want out of life. I recall one of them was working a job, another was in a dress shop and the third was drawing (note: i don't perfectly recall the show). But nothing about peace made them really think twice about reenlisting, and that to me was one big wasted opportunity.
Do they want a normal life? Do they want kids? A career? Do they want to explore the world? All they got out of peace was that they only had war in their lives, which was what they already had, so it was just more of the same thing.
FINALLLY! omg i feel so relieved that somebody recognized how Gabi is literally Eren but on the opposite side. Every time my friends would curse Gabi, I understood them, but was nonetheless perplexed. She was and still somewhat is the most hated character on the show. We cheered on Eren and his friends in their quests to kill their enemies on the other side of the wall/ocean to rid themseleves from the oppression and threat they feel. But as soon as we get the perspective of the people they call enemies and how they were fighting for their own survival, we suddenly lose sympathy? Eldians in the wall and in Liberio both faced immense oppression and are fighting in the only way they know how, we just happened to follow one side of the conflict dispropotionately more, but is that really a reason to hate the other side?
I both hate gabi and love her as a character. She is not just the inversion of Eren narratively. Isayama literally made her from a gender-bent drawing of Eren as a girl.
She's not tho. People have been making this dumb argument since day one and it's not accurate in the slightest.
@@ZaLewdWarudo interesting. Why do you think so?
@@kkuwura Eren joined the Scouts to liberate all the people in the world. He never intended to kill anyone. Gabi volunteered to be a Warrior candidate to oppress anyone Marley wanted her to, as long as she and her immediate family could benefit, and she was already killing people left and right to do it.
One of the things that really bothers me is the false equivalency of Eren and Gabi. The sentiment of "she's just like Eren is when the wall fell!" How can anyone say that?
Gabi and the Warrior Candidates are already war veterans. If Zofia and Udo died in the battle against the fortress in S4E1 would she say "I don't understand why they had to die"?? Marley is a belligerent nation which wages war on its neighbors and genocide against its own citizens. Gabi, Zofia and Udo only know each other because they volunteered to be bio-weapons. They are OK with Marley's oppression as long as it offers them an opportunity to move up a rung on the ladder. They just sat and watched Willy Tybur, their head of State essentially, declare war against Paradis, which is something they all want to do, but she can't understand why they have some collatoral damage? She can be mad, she can be sad, she can rage in agony over the loss of comrades and friends, but don't say you don't understand why they had to die.
Gabi is the wrong character to compare to Eren Jaeger.
Eren was going to volunteer for the Scout Regiment but that was not a person-killing organization. The Scouts fought titans, paranormal monster in the shape of humans. Incapable of speech or understanding anything except for eating people, they could not be negotiated with or forced to yield. Killing titans wasn't really killing because as the Scouts understood it the titans weren't living. They were just operating. That operation was in fact a weapon manufactured by Marley to indiscriminately kill as many Eldians as possible.
So no, Gabi isn't Eren. Eren wasn't ever fighting for himself. Eren was not intending to oppress the rest of the world for personal gain. Paradis is innocent, as no one on that island has participated in any war except for against the dummy titans. They cannot be blamed as a race for the wars their ancestors waged. Even the attack in Libero Zone was after Marley declared war on them. Gabi is an antagonist and an oppressor from the beginning.
Their circumstances are vaguely familiar and somehow that's enough to make them analogues for each other? What a reach.
@@ZaLewdWarudo thank you I have also made this point Gabi is not the same as Eren she is the dark inversion of Eren he is Male fighting a defensive war for the sake of his peoplele and their freedom Gabi is female fighting offensive wars of oppression and tyranny for her people and their reputation.
Eren is a murderer at age 10. The fact that Iseyama got us on his side at all is impressive character writing and storytelling.
Thats cause you call it murder when the context makes him in the right for it
@@KyubiCloaks that's the point Eren's already displayed such an extreme mindset at a young age in calling them "animals" but the situation at the time makes him out to be in the right because the "animals" in questions were criminals, but what does it make him when he expresses the same sentiment towards people who aren't criminals at all?
he's not a murderer he's a killer murder is killing innocent people for malicious reasons. I don't call a cop who kills an active shooter a murderer or someone who shot a home invader in self defence or a soldier fighting to protect his country.
Y’all replying are missing the point. The point is a brutally murdered two grown men as a little kid (he was actually more like 8 or 9 at the time). No normal child would do that, but despite that even after learning that about him he’s still easy af to root for. I know I was rooting for him all the way until season 4
@@Ismael-kc3ry that was probably his future self affecting him. Child soldiers have existed throughout history who have killed people and grown up to be perfectly sane individuals I know people that have met former child soldiers. The reason I think it was his future self affecting him is because of where he got that knife it's the same as the mirror man's knives if you don't know what I'm talking about look up the mirror man AOE theory.
Crazy story but I never hated Gabi, actually quite loved how they included her and was kinda dissapointed to see the reaction to her.
I like to see it as proof that the speech about the forest that Sashas father gave being accurate. Gabi killed someone we all cared about. Hate about that leads many to hate her. Like Sashas father said, most people dont want to leave the forest and hang on to that hate. Only by actively deciding to end the cycle can things change. But that's not what most people do
@@fansee1368 to be fair, Erens drive was directed towards what we thought were mindless monsters. Gabi killed a shit ton of actual humans for praise and status. And mind you, not just eldians (which would be more understandable given the history she learned) but people from any Nation who happen to oppose Marley, like at fort slava
The sad thing about Gabi, is that too many people think like her at the beginning of S4.
Without realising it, or even worse, arguing with "well, my hatred is justified".
@@dustingrimmmagic1067 let's be real Titans still are mindless monsters people saying that they are really human is inaccurate. It's more accurate to say that they were human just like any Zombie, Wraith, Ghost, Wendigo, Werewolf, or Vampire. Hating Titans for what they are is perfectly fine everybody knows in a zombie film or show that every zombie was once probably a decent human being but nobody thinks it's wrong to hate a zombie for wanting to eat you alive followed by angrily bashing it's head in with a bat.
@@dustingrimmmagic1067 well our hatred is justified and so was hers recognizing that your enemy has valid reason to hate you doesn't invalidate your own hatred.
The story is on some inception level orchestration of it's events. It definitely deserves the level of praise it is getting. It's gonna be hard to watch the final season when it comes out. I hope it's a story that gets remembered for centuries hereafter.
Honestly I don’t think anyone would complain if you did a bunch of videos on AoT like you did for GoT
Isayama is such an incredible story teller. I hope he does stuff outside of anime. I like anime, but I want to see what he can do in a different format.
i believe he's taking a break for a while after the anime finishes
Wdym, Isayama is a mangaka, it doesn't makes sense of him to do anything else
Well, he started a sauna, that's something outside mangas for u heh
@@octaviosilva5808 Donald Glover was an actor ( played in community for example ) but he still became a rapper ( childish Gambino ) and then became a TV series director ( Atlanta ) and he was succesfull in all 3 things.
So why shouldn't isayama try to write a TV series or other stuff if HE wants to ?
@@roxazzino3115I'm not arguing that Isayama straight up can't do anything outside of manga, but he is specialized and have experience in drawing stuff and tell story with it. Movies or TV shows are quite different
Absolutely loved this video, it fleshed out basically every conversation had about how insanely brilliant season 4 is, but in a coherent and properly analytical way. I feel like you should do a comparative video between Eren and Daenerys for how a heel turn on a hero should be done, I'd definitely watch the shit out of it
Both were unexpected and shocking, but ultimately understandable given the context.
Season 7&8 were shit for so many reasons, one of which wasn't Dany's turn which was suggested from the very beginning.
Great analysis! This story starts out so great and get so simple and becomes so incredibly complex and yet keeps its simplicity throughout all returning to the same
When eren and annie were fighting, we knew nothing about the titans, and that is shown further when instead of aiming to kill or eat annie, they simply aimed to capture her. While it is funny knowing that if eren had eaten annie, he would have become more powerful, at that time we didn't hate annie, we were just confused by her, and wanted clarification on why she was an enemy, and how she became a titan shifter. Simply put, we wanted the titans killed because they werent human, but annie was clearly human. Gabi, on the other hand, murdered sasha, who is clearly human. The show is very different at this point, but its not just that gabi killed someone we were familiar with, its that she was killing someone distinctly human.
Eren killed two men at age 9 and called them animals who didn't deserve to live.
@@AtomicR-Word They kidnapped Misaka so they could sell her into hell. Can you blame him?
@@AtomicR-Word Irony being that almost all people are exactly the same. Sex traffickers and child kidnappers? Ask what people think about them and most people would say the same thing Eren said that they are animals that they're disgusting evil people who deserve to be put to death.
@@AtomicR-Word were they not?
@@samuelroskelley2413 So what Sasha and the crew did to Gabi again?
i always described AoT as "an infnite flashback that we're experiencing as its manifesting itself".
im happy somebody could elaborate it way better XD
Incredibly insightful!! Showed me several points I had completely missed. I appreciate the show much more now - thank you!
that might've been the best explanation of Eren's powers and misfortune that I've ever seen
he wrote this masterpiece, and it was his first ever manga. isayama is truly one of the best writers. he’s like the lin manuel miranda of manga
It's interesting to see what happens when you try.
Generally they become violent on ever more catastrophic scales.
😭😭😭😭😭😭
Been waiting for this one, on literally one of the most well written characters of all time
Let's GOOOO, I'm ready for this one!!!
Edit: Dude your analysis was spot on and I feel that a lot of this nuance (especially the commentary on the cycle of hatred and the shows anti war message) was lost on a lot of viewers that only wanted to see the action or only wanted to see Eren "win". Which is how we get people calling themselves Yeagerists and people giving off "Griffith/Eren did nothing wrong" vibes. Anyways, excellent video as always!
Your oversimplification of what happened between eren and his brother in the paths, is the only one I understand. Thank you! This was a great watch
I love this video. It explained to me what i felt (but couldnt describe) when i watched the 4th season. Thanks for giving us such an insight into this writing method.
One thing i would like to critic is, it would be just so great if you could write the Music you used in the description, or better a link to the creators page if there is one :) WIsh you all a great day and be awesome !
Haven’t checked out this channel since you covered bojack but man was I glad to see this in my recommended, keep up the great work 👍🏼
I’ve been waiting for you to post another video about attack on Titan. I would love more content on attack on Titan. There is so much to it, I really appreciate hearing your insight
I like your critical thinking when it comes to lit. Any chance you could work on a playlist on building stories from the ground up? I think a lot of people are interested in how these things work formally but it's hard to know where to begin.
Point #3 is beautifully illustrated through Dark, which is comprised of dozens of causal loops.
love the vid! was jamming out to the tunes in the background of your video. had to keep rewinding bc i kept tuning your voice out lmao
Excellent breakdown and analysis, as always! Thanks so much for unpacking this narrative!
I got the anti war message from the beginning but that might be because I am anti war in real life so I was more sensitive to it. The whole anime is about not idealising or demonising people, being able to see reality for the way it is. very apparent if you are open and clear to the suffering of all beings; as well as the ability to make mistakes from good intentions.
Assuming we don't get an anime only ending, the final episode is actually going to affirm your circular storytelling points. I can't explain how because, well, spoilers, but I think you'll find the final twist very interesting and revealing.
The ending was good and I don't want an anime only. I will die on this hill.
@@luciferkotsutempchannel well the ending was bad and I will die on that hill. I will also refuse to elaborate any further.
@@kingtroll2640 Good. To elaborate would be to spoil to any anime onlys who may come across here.
There is no AOE,it's just a stupid cope by a stupid part of fandom who believe isayama retconned aot,I personally don't like the ending much but the ending these guys suggest (ANR) is 10× worse
what a wonderful and informative video to any anime fan or even an avid reader or aspiring writer. Absolutely loved it.
What an amazing way to explain the future memories effect. Kudos for you, bro
One of the greatest story I have ever seen
Maybe someone touched on this already, but at least in the beginning, Eren's rage and Gabi's aren't perfectly parallel, as Eren's seems a lot more justified since he saw what the titans did with his own eyes, while Gabi had only heard about the evil of the people of Paradis.
Not really, Eren hated the titans before the attack but then the first time he saw them they destroyed his town and killed his friends and family, justifying his anger towards the titans. Gaby too hated the eldians in Paradi and the first time she saw them they destroyed her town and killed her friends, justifying her anger towards Paradi. Gaby is more like an anti-Eren to me.
@@JARZR Eren never hated titans before, he was just annoyed with them keeping him and his people inside the walls. It was more like the feeling you get towards an animal in the middle of the road your trying to drive on, than the feeling you would get if that same animal ate your best friend. Gabi's hatred is like the younger generations hatred towards Nazis. It's a hatred born mainly from the feelings of disgust towards Nazis' (alleged) actions and ideology, and the belief that Paradise is to blame for the discrimination they face. *I added the 'alleged' part since it turned out to be mostly propaganda in Gabi's case.
@@f.b.i6889
Your comparisons are bad.
@@TheTheThe_ I was going to explain my comparisons more but then I realized you gave no feedback to why they are "bad", so I would have nothing to go off anyway. If you really think the are bad, then please elaborate.
@@f.b.i6889 Finally someone that understands the Eldian's would be considered the Nazis in AoT's world. They were the ones who crushed all other nations other than their own, and then dipped. Not sure how so many people have paid so little attention to the story to have missed that
I’ve been heralding the richness AoT’s circular writing has contributed to rereading and rewatching. It is a completely different story in the revelations we’re given in the final act (let alone before it), and it’s in the devastation that … we see the cyclical nature of humanity and the way the story was told elevates it to an entirely different level.
Thank you for this. I enjoyed it so much, and it gave me more insight outside of my already formed opinions or a story I considered circular.
I can't believe I've been waiting for you to make this video and didn't even know it!
I love circular storytelling. Although I might have a fairly liberal definition of what I consider to be circular storytelling.
The Hero's Journey (home-away-home) is almost always a great foundation for a great story. The hero starts off unknowing of the world, weak and ignorant. Often very relatable in going through ignorance->discovery->knowledge->strenght, similar to what we all experience in a plethora of situations in life.
I enjoy stories where the son follows the father. Similar stories, similar journeys, but the son will succeed where the father failed. Like in AoT. Both Zeke and Eren are trying to accomplish what their father could not, with each their own point of view on what must be done to consider their task completed.
Star Wars is another good example. Anakin was The Chosen One, a Skywalker who's supposed to bring the end of the Sith. But he fails. Then, a generation later, Luke becomes the new "chosen one", a Skywalker who's supposed to bring the end of the Sith - complete the task that his father failed.
Anakin was offered power by the Emperor - a chance to save his family by joining him. He then gave into anger and turned to the Dark Side. Then the same happens to Luke. Luke was offered power by the Emperor - a chance to save his family by joining him. He then gave into anger and turned to the Dark Side. Except Luke manages to bring himself back before he commits an act which would seal his fate - something Anakin did not manage. Great circular storytelling where the son succeeds where the father failed.
Another form of circular storytelling I enjoy is when characters switch places through the story. You may have an optimistic character who believes in others and the good in the world - and another character who is cynical, untrusting, and selfish. But through the events of the story where the two characters comes into contact with the world, the first character now sees the ugliness of the world and loss that their ideals can not save them from - so they become irrational, cynical, and dark. The second character on the other hand learns that they can not handle the world alone. They see that others share their pain, and that everyone else is just trying to survive as well. The second character learns to trust, to work together with others, and to value other people's hardships.
In the end we end up with the same two types of characters - except they have switches places, gained each other's traits, gained and lost to the point where they have each changed completely. Yet the sum-total of character traits before and after are the same - through the challenges these characters have gone through, and how they responded to them.
Circular storytelling is always deep and fascinating.
I Thinks "season final" being split to 3 are just mainly production problem.
Hoho I am so so looking forward to watching the whole thing, thank you Savage!
Edit: awesome as always!!!!
The piano covers of the soundtrack in the background was an amazing choice.
10:00 Paradis doesn't do same thing as Marley. In Paradis the cadets wanted to be there and protect their country. In Marley those were brainwashed and "enslaved" kids. Also there is a difference of 3 years between the Paradis teenage soldiers and the 12 year olds in Marley. Paradis was defending itself. Also Eren wasn't brainwashed like Gabi, there are some similarities but they are not that similar. Ps: english is not my first language.
Another big difference is that Marley plays the victim over things that happened 100 years ago. The walls were destroyed less than a decade ago, the island has been thrust into a race war only four years ago. It's fucked up that Eren chose the rumbling, he's a villain for sure. But he's a villain I'll understand forever because he's doing it to free his people from a world that is bearing down on them. Tybur declared war, the representatives of the countries who came to Liberio cried tears of joy at the prospect of wiping the island off the map. No paradisian came up with a better plan, so Eren took matters into his own hands. He becomes the villain, but he does finally free the island.
That is of course if he actually does win.
yep that's why I often hate arguments based on the "theme" of the story most people will cherry pick and ignore context and details that would alter the thematic narrative they want to convey.
@@distantsea I disagree Eren is both the devil to the world and Eldias Messiah that's the point of the story that it's all a matter perspective. Eren isn't just a villain that's why I love his Character he has transcended such oversimplifications. At the end of the Day, the world united to wipe out his race and he defended himself and his people Paradis never started this fight. People like to call it a cycle of retaliation and that Marley attacked because of what Eldia did. But the king literally gave the Marleyans his land, dissolved his empire, and left. He stopped the violence on Eldia's part. Marley attacking the decedents of Paradis is no different than after WW2 ends and Germany surrenders you wait years and then go and kill their kids that's not a continuation that's a new conflict and that you instigated. Marley started this war the world joined them and Eren chose to end this war. the 50-year plan would never have worked because it's just continuing the bluff that Carl fritz used even though the world has already proven they are willing to attack them knowing that the King said he'd use the rumbling proving that it doesn't work as leverage anymore. If they did a partial rumbling they would still have to demolish the fleets and Armies of every major world superpower which would take months and would just be a world war with the axis powers versus a single country. Eldia would be bombed within a decade since destroying Global alliance armies would just validate their fear and accelerate their military development we have already seen that they have WW1 era experimental planes as soon as those can carry bombs a fleet of planes could continuously carpet bomb Paradis and this is assuming they don't just nuke them since they are almost at that level of technological development. That's the silver bullet of it all The 50 years plan is reliant on time and hope for negotiation but time is the one thing Paradis does not have and no country was willing to negotiate. Even Marley said the age of Titans is coming to an end, technology is diminishing the threat of the rumbling every year that goes by and Paradis is rapidly losing its leverage on maintaining peace through fear. the 50-year plan is just Copeium because Armin, Hange, and the rest don't want to get their hands dirty and would rather let their people die than do their duty to protect the people they even said as much when they decided to fight Eren and admitted that the world would probably kill them after the defeat Eren. Zeke's plan is also just gentle genocide. Eren's plan is the only valid way that Paradis has a future.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 Yeah I can definitely respect that
I won't say Paradis and Marley did the exact same thing, but remember Paradis did force their children to choose between endless labor and military training. Sure there was a valid reason, but they still in a way forced some kids into the military
"The most anti-war, anti-military arc of anime I've ever seen"
Boy, you're gonna love any of the Gundam series. (I would go for Iron Blooded Orphans tho)
found your channel from some rando on tiktok, this is great ty
Really cool video! Loved it man! I really love what ishayama is doing with Eren’s character, I could be talking about him for hours! HAHAHA
brilliant video, circular storytelling in aot is perfect literary tool because at the end of the day aot is itself a story about the CYCLE of hatred. eren yeager as the protagonist and inherent vehicle for the narrative being trapped in his own self fulfilling loop is just icing on top of the perfectly constructed cake
I came here because of your tweet tho lol.
Really great video and analysis
Lmao shash on it fr
I found u nigga!!!
tbh .. the uncertainty, soooo much unknown made season 1 increddible.
i liked season 2 and 3 but not as much as 1 and later on season 4 is in that sense an insane plot twist but it has such a tendency to be just soul crushing .. it borders on depressing me
I was absolutely terrified in season 1…I agree with you.
Always good to see content on one of the best anime of all time.
Really looking forward to your videos once the series ends
Attack on Titan is such a cool story, with a lot of well-hidden secrets that shake us when they're revealed.
One of my favorites though, is the name of the story itself. While literally using the English text "Attack on Titan" in marketing, the Japanese name is Shingeki no Kyojin, originally translated as "The Advancing Giants". And the name makes sense - the titans are literally advancing giants. However, we eventually find out that Shingeki no Kyojin is actually the name of Erin's titan - it was literally HIS titan's story this entire time. And when we find out that his titan sees the memories of both past and future users, the name becomes clearer.
The show isn't "The Advancing Giants" - it's "The Advancing Giant". Japanese doesn't use plurals the way English does, and there was no way to know at chapter 1 that the title was referring to a singular entity rather than several. But it's always been about the Shingeki no Kyojin - the titan with hindsight AND foresight. And that's a helluva thing to boldly put right in front of our faces for YEARS without us ever really understanding what we're looking at - and I LOVED it when I put those pieces together ^_^
What makes this show so good is that it explains how facism can happen and how EVEN IF SOMETHING LIKE THE TITAN'S existed that it IS STILL WRONG TO COMMIT GENOCIDE because it JUST IS. Even if there really WAS an ethnic group of people that were somehow different in a way that could make them dangerous and had a history of doing wrong, the solution is to make peace because genocide only leads to more genocide. And now think, in real life people do this stuff without any titans. As Sasha says "NO! Genocide is just wrong"
But ... Zeke's plan was.. genocide...too. Lol. people who are on Zeke's side tend to take the moral high ground, I'm not saying YOU are, I'm.just making a point, and say well I'm better because I don't think that Eren is correct. Genocide is always wrong. Exterminating people due to sterilization was a Nazi plan and it's also genocide. One plan just has perfume sprayed on it whereas the other one is just bloody and open and stinks. One side isn't more noble because they want to execute Zeke's plan. His plan is still just as dark and sinister as Eren's. It's just quieter and more palatable and enables people to gain an imagined moral high ground. "Shhh, we're gonna commit genocide with our socks on."
You say genocide is just wrong because it is, but you have zero moral backing behind it. It’s just your ideology, there’s zero objectivity behind that claim.
@@arcanum3882 genocide is just wrong because it is, because genocide has no ethical reason, even in the case of AOT which provides people with a truthful reason to potentially commit a genocide (these people can turn into mindless human eating monsters) it's still wrong because the leaders of a group are not the group, genocide has no ethical basis for happening, even if you believe in the death penalty for certain actions why should others with no connection other than genetic be subject to that penalty. Genocide is always wrong no matter what. I'd be happy to hear any arguments for real life genocide and not just call you a facist but actually take those arguments at face value, especially if you'd like to do it on my channel, however if not that's fine too. If you have any arguments in favor of genocide irl please lay them out, if it isn't acceptable even in the hypothetical case of AOT (which is one of the reasons it was written) then I'd love to hear any ideas you have for real life. No judgment, purely philosophicaly I'd like to hear what you would consider justifiable genocide.
Before that let's tackle the easiest one, let's say one group is going to commit genocide of another group. That group should be stopped by any means nessisrary but there will never be a case that an arbitrary line that decides one ethnic or identity group from another should be wiped from the face of the earth as the can be stopped without wiping out everyone related to them, some will disagree with their genociding and if stopped the ancestors of that group can be convinced that they should not commit genocide and that their ancestors and rulers were wrong.
Again, I'd love to talk about this on stream of you're willing (you don't need to show your face) or if that's something you can't bring yourself to do at least provide some evidence/arguments as I have
@@smileyp4535 I'm not making an argument in favor of genocide, the point I'm making is that without a moral foundation found outside of humanity and founded by an authority higher than humanity, there is so reasoning you can come to that would objectively declare genocide wrong.
Might would make right, whoever is strongest can rule and write history. Unless of course, there is a higher moral law that can't be changed or challenged by humanity. If humanity founded these moral laws through legislation, they are subjective. They would be subject to whatever powers exist at the time, and really there would be zero reason to follow that moral law if you were strong enough or smart enough to get away with it.
This is why saying "genocide is wrong because it is" has no authority and falls flat on it's face, there is no reasoning or authority behind it that would trump me saying "genocide is permissible because it is".
@@arcanum3882 I provided evidence for my claim in both posts, genocide doesn't even create the result it is intended to, morals asside genocide doesn't work because its based on arbitrary assumptions and punishing people for crimes they didn't commit and to end a cycle of violence but in every case has only prolonged it, even logically genocide is wrong. The only way to move forward and end the cycle of violence is to end it. Learn from it, and move on. Let go of the past, let justice be served but blood fueds and thus genocide are illogical and only cause unnecessary suffering over arbitrary lines. While "genocide is just wrong" sounds circular it is self evidently justifiable and easily explained, I appreciate your devil's advocate as we cannot truly understand and appreciate axioms or convictions without being questioned but logic alone is all that is needed to disprove the value of genocide, it truely is, just self evidently imposible to justify
Well said!! Genius storytelling with the twists!!!
Superb video, thank you!
One think I love about attack on titan is the fact that it puts the humanity itself as the core cause of conflict. Titans are more like a "catalyst" for a conflict that would have happened anyway at some point.
The tripping point of the Gabi and Erin parallel is Gabi's comfort at setting aside the humanity of her enemies. Where as Erin's enemies where presumed to have no humanity. So the question is would Erin have hated the titans as much if he knew the truth? That the titans are victims who couldn't control the situations the were forced into. I think the answer is yes, he would. At least when he was young. I don't think the point of the story was to say Erin is immune to that basic human failing. But that wasn't in the show sooooo....
Yes he would have, if he was brainwashed into it his whole life like Gabi was
he knew that Annie was inside the female titan. he also felt the same way towards Reiner and Bertholdt after their reveals. so it's pretty damn similar to Gabi. he knew that at least those enemies were human, and he was still willing to violently destroy them to protect his people... and we see how that line of thinking leaves the world in the end.
I will say that, in their journey between the ocean and Wall Maria, he told the others to spare a slow titan because the titan was one of them. But also he had a new enemy to hate, so we still don't know whether he'd have felt the same if they found out BEFORE he discovered Marley.
At least someone said it eren always had this bloodlust and anger. This time the enemies are those who are a lot of them are innocent who he want to destroy or did nothing wrong to him personally. People continue to say oh he doing this to protect the ones he love yes but it's something darker and extreme action no rational person would take
no rational person would take except literally ever person I've asked in my personal life and half the AOT fandom. Don't project your moral system on the rest of us we are not all utilitarians most people like me who side with Eren all believe that people have the right to protect their own even at the expense of others and the minority has no obligation to save the majority at the expense of themselves and their loved ones.
@@wingsoffreedom3589 Eren is genocidal. Supporting Eren means you support genocide. If that’s what you think is good in this world, fine. But I just want to make sure you’re aware of that
@@jazzyboy1770 I don't care for buzz words killing all the orcs in LOTR after the films was genocide the only thing that matters is context. Eren is both the devil to the world and Eldias Messiah that's the point of the story that it's all a matter of perspective. Eren isn't just a villain that's why I love his Character he has transcended such oversimplifications. At the end of the Day, the world united to wipe out his race and he defended himself and his people Paradis never started this fight. People like to call it a cycle of retaliation and that Marley attacked because of what Eldia did. But the king literally gave the Marleyans his land, dissolved his empire, and left. He stopped the violence on Eldia's part. Marley attacking the decedents of Paradis is no different than after WW2 ends and Germany surrenders you wait years and then go and kill their kids that's not a continuation that's a new conflict and that you instigated. Marley started this war the world joined them and Eren chose to end this war. the 50-year plan would never have worked because it's just continuing the bluff that Carl fritz used even though the world has already proven they are willing to attack them knowing that the King said he'd use the rumbling proving that it doesn't work as leverage anymore. If they did a partial rumbling they would still have to demolish the fleets and Armies of every major world superpower which would take months and would just be a world war with the axis powers versus a single country. Eldia would be bombed within a decade since destroying Global alliance armies would just validate their fear and accelerate their military development we have already seen that they have WW1 era experimental planes as soon as those can carry bombs a fleet of planes could continuously carpet bomb Paradis and this is assuming they don't just nuke them since they are almost at that level of technological development. That's the silver bullet of it all The 50 years plan is reliant on time and hope for negotiation but time is the one thing Paradis does not have and no country was willing to negotiate. Even Marley said the age of Titans is coming to an end, technology is diminishing the threat of the rumbling every year that goes by and Paradis is rapidly losing its leverage on maintaining peace through fear. the 50-year plan is just Copeium because Armin, Hange, and the rest don't want to get their hands dirty and would rather let their people die than do their duty to protect the people they even said as much when they decided to fight Eren and admitted that the world would probably kill them after the defeat Eren. Zeke's plan is also just gentle genocide. Eren's plan is the only valid way that Paradis has a future. So yes if genocide against others is the only way to stop a genocide against your own people then I support it. I even asked some Jewish friends if they were in ww2 in Germany and were on the train to Auschwitz but we're given the option to Thanos snap all germans in Europe out of existence ensuring they and 6 million others survived would they take that option and they said yes and that it goes both ways if Jews were the Nazis and Germans were subject to an ethnic cleansing they are justified on doing the same.
@@jazzyboy1770 if its genocide of the people across the ocean, I support it 100%
@@ZaLewdWarudo Based.
I’m always watching these videos while I’m getting ready for the day
Gotta say, when i first read those chapters of AoT, i was very confused, and this video shed some light for me to understand "what the heck was going on with these memory loop feedback bs", thanks for the great video!
So basically, from what I'm getting at as a learning writer:
Circular Storytelling is revisiting the same themes, plot, and narrative in a similar or reminiscent setting and exploring them under different light and perspective.
Eren fights for freedom
He says he is free
But he's the least free character in AoT
All of Aot characters tend to be tied to their past and their goals, but while they have those "chains" they have the chance to evolve, like Reiner kinda did.
Eren instead was fated to end right here, and the show will end presumebly with his final act, with no chance at evolution, maybe only a last minute change of heart
in a sense, he is free as he act according to his own will but in truth, he was and is just a slave to himself.
Ironically but also romantically, his most beloved is the freest character in SnK.
@@neardarkroad1347 his most beloved lmao her brain was played with since the start despite being an Ackerman. Her so called evolution is to stay obsessed with him. Someone who cries over his own actions is also not someone who act out his own will but just how he believed it to be
Love the vid and would love to hear more of your thoughts on Isayama’s writing/AoT.
Looking forward to your video after part 3 comes out
Imagine all it takes is some good storytelling and you can have "normal" people sympathize with an angry German advocating genocide. It would be harmless if I didn't remember AOT's infamous death threats 😳
context is everything if the whole world deemed my race a bunch of devils and the U.N. got together I would definitely start the rumbling and the only reason that I'veheard other people say that Eren is wrong is because they sympathized with the world because we're all human. Nobody would cared if in independence day blowing up the Alien ship lead to the extinction of their species since they came for earths resources. It's all just tribalism at different scales I just apply that consistently. If Aliens wanted to blow up earth and kill humans I'd wipe out their race if diplomacy was impossible and the alternative was human extinction. If one human race got together to kill some other race and they had no other means to protect themselves then a weapon of mass destruction then using said weapon is valid as well. that's why I side with Eren.
Lmao true
Austrian*
The people throwing death threats oughta be ashamed. Their excuses don't matter-- it's not okay.
@@narxes He's talking about Eren
Aot is literally the peak of story telling You can’t get better
Good explanation, I'll wait for more AoT video's like this one :)
Somewhere at the 12:25 I thought you'd put an end scene of season 3 where Eren literally said he wants to exterminate enemies at the other side of the sea
It’s funny that I listen to the lofi song you’re playing in the background a lot when I study
The circular aspect proves the theme I’ve heard Isayama bring up in interviews. That as long as people choose hate over love, there will always be war. And we’re just seeing the cycle turn
The show is about the fact that “right” and “wrong” are nonexistent when taking into account the circumstances of every character involved in the story, some of you really miss the mark. Eren doesn’t care that what he is doing is wrong because he understands that life is about how one chooses to fight against it’s absurdity, and some people are afraid to commit to their own ideas of what is right and what is wrong, but others are aware of how all this works and they respect their own right to choose a path that they believe in this is why Eren says “some push their own backs, and those people see something beyond all of this, maybe it’s hope, it might even be another hell but I won’t know if I don’t keep moving forward”
Zeke called, he wants his moral nihilism back. There is absolutely right and wrong when taking into account perspectives. Eren is a psychopath who is murdering the world for a handful of friends while letting his island he claims to want to protect fall under a fascist regime who itself is being wiped out by the very handful of friends we just discussed. He overthrows the government he helped inplace, allows Zeke to turn much of the military into Titans and then DOES NOTHING when he can control them after seizing the Founding Titan. Eren is a terribly evil person by any measure, and will only get more so as the story concludes. Your assertion that a judge cannot sit from a neutral perspective and see Eren's choices and go "that guy is fucking insane" flies in the face of everything our society is built on from our moral foundations to our courts of law. It is simply a nihilistic fantasy.
@@Tyrantofthewind I mean I don’t see it as moral nihilism, it’s more like a moral mosaic, yeah Eren is killing the world, but it’s the same world that was trying to eradicate his bloodline, the same one that’s been oppressing his people for years now, I mean his people are literally viewed as less than human so of course he’s gonna decide to combat the social climate of the global population to ensure the survival of his people instead of laying down and dying, innocents are massacred on both sides so there’s no sense in trying to uphold some ultimate moral truth that doesn’t even really exist in the first place. Also zeke turning the military into titans was in an effort to make contact with eren as is the purpose of the fascist regime put in place by Eren, so sure those two things are questionable but I don’t see how they justify the view that Eren cannot possible be redeemable now, and even the fascist regime wasn’t wrong because they knew exactly what the plan of Eren’s friends was which was to disrupt the rumbling and Eren’s plan which would’ve gone against the security of eldia. These are all cause and effects, any of the characters can be wrong depending on which one you resonate with.
@@Tyrantofthewind "Your assertion that a judge cannot sit from a neutral perspective and see Eren's choices and go "that guy is fucking insane" flies in the face of everything our society is built on from our moral foundations to our courts of law."
Hence why said society is utter garbage. Who can say what's right and wrong? Is there some kind of omnipotent god that has decided this? (spoilers: there isn't). Morality is just a delusion made up by humans in an attempt to preserve life. For you, the preservation of life may be "right", but for me, it might be "wrong" and there's no objective correct answer to this, there is no right or wrong as long as you remain unbiased
@@Tyrantofthewind I think you've greatly missed the point that both sides of the conflict are in the wrong or have a misconception that either side of the conflict is at all morally justifiable. No one thinks genocide is a good thing no one reasonable atleast, but the narrative displays, two options and only those two being the the genocide of the Eldians or the genocide of the rest of the world. There is no functional resolution outside of this. Zeke too believes in what is undeniably genocide the only reason he's seen as more reasonable is because his genocide isn't violent but would you call extermination of a race of people via sterlization not genocide? No you wouldn't it very much still is. The King who decided to let the world exterminate Paradis. Or Marley, that also choses genocide. And Eren choses it too.
Armin or Historia are not examples of ''another way'' or ''the morally high ground'' when the narrative goes out of its way to show they have consistently failed. Post main story Armin had years to make peace with the Marleyans and failed, failed so miserably that the Eldians still get genocided. If we go on a hypothetical rant and said Eren only threatened to use the rumbling or did a partial rumbling or went and destroyed every possible military unit the whole world has, he can't sustain this is a peace keeping method. He is going to die because of an innate part of titan shifting abilities, and afterwards the other nation's military is going to rebuild. The only way he could continue this "peace" would be doing the same as Karl Fritz, constantly passing along the power of the titans to new people who would have to forfeit their lives only to establish a new system that would breed hated and fear from the world. It wouldn't fix anything and if anything probably breed more war and violence.
Then, Eren went and pulled a Code Geass ''make everyone my enemy so everyone can get friends at hating me''. But even this "peace" was fake and we know this definitively because at end of the day, the Eldians were still completely exterminated. In Attack on Titan for both opposing sides attempting peace means getting you and your people killed. The only difference between Zeke and everyone else is that his version of genocide is a "better" alternative to that because calling any form of genocide better is totally reasonable. Everyone is blindsided by the notion of peace or one side being more justified than the other when the entire story the entire time has been explicitly stated with peace not being an option and that both sides are bad. If you side with either Marley or Eren you've missed the point and support genocide. The story is from a neutral perspective because literally every party in the story wants to genocide the other and genocide is always wrong.
@@michaelcho3564 I think this is mostly on point but if I can add a little bit of optimism, I do think the story offers a path forward for people to change their living condition somewhat. By focusing on Gabi's character we do see that change is possible through personal growth and relationships plus expanding worldviews and so on. On an individual basis, people do have some influence over their surroundings and altho it's possibly not viable for solving global problems quickly it can improve people's lives somewhat to gain perspective. Gabi is a success story despite existing in such cruel world and I think that's important.
Just finished watching AOT. It's a masterpiece. Just waiting on your final review of the series!
fantastic video, fantastic points, instantly subbed
There are no downsides to a season 4 part 3 because that means one last OP. LETS FUCKING GO
I am interested how you will feel once everything is all said and done. It does some controversial things
I read the manga a while back. I grew increasingly disturbed from the point where the Marleyans were introduced and I couldn't think why. This video showed me that there was a level of complexity that I hadn't fleshed out in my head - what had been a manga about simply slaughtering man-eating monsters suddenly changed to a complex moral slap to my face. Thanks for helping me understand AoT more - I like it a lot more now
Great video!
I would highly recommend just reading the final two volumes instead of waiting for the anime. If you were an anime-only through all of attack on titan, it’s really cool to experience the ending through the manga. I was anime-only and I decided to read it and it was very worth it
Did u like the ending?
Are you Satan though? I wouldn't recommend 138 and 139 to even my worst enemy. XD
It’d be weird to jump to manga at the end, but waiting a year, and dodging spoilers in this community especially, can be difficult
@@roxazzino3115 yes
@@Ismael-kc3ry I can see how it would be weird. But since mappa has basically just been doing a shot for shot animation of the manga, the last two volumes felt just as engaging as watching the past season
Fundamental difference between the walls and Marley: Eren and the others joined the military because unknowable evil was for seemingly no reason trying to wipe out the small remnants of humanity. They didn’t join because of some idea of nationalism or xenophobia, they joined for three reasons: 1. to get to the inner walls as an MP for a comfy life, 2. to join the garrison as a relatively dafe but well paying job or 3. to join the scouts and take back the world outside the walls. The reason the ending got so much hate is because regardless of similarities, the story remained as a tale of Eren trying to save the people of the walls from the genocidal peoples outside it. Yet it tries painfully hard in later chapters to humanize Marley and dehumanize the Yaegerists to comical levels of «le good vs bad» storytelling. Floch would’ve worked just as well if he didn’t take on a Dirlewanger-esque attitude towards negotiations and punishments. One could go on at length about how Eren should’ve used the rumbling sparingly as a deterrent more akin to Hiroshima and Nagasaki at the end of WW2, but at the end of the day it doesn’t matter because the story started with a child seeing his life be uprooted and destroyed because a hostile nation who saw them as mere animals decided to bring down the walls «to see what would happen». Marley never tried diplomacy. Why should Eren?
The Jeagerists were not dehumanised at all. They, especially Floch, are exactly what happens to anyone that subscribes to fascist ideologies.
"Marley never tried diplomacy. Why should Eren?"
Because you end up involving people that actually want peace and have the potential to see Eldians as normal human beings like the "Turkish" in the Marley flashback.
Not sure how to put this into better words lol, but you explained some major things and i understand it a bit better now. Good analysis
I learned so much just now! Thanks!
Hello! Fellow Author here:
Circular Narrative writing used to be called “Realistic Narrative” because it used to end up having the history repeat itself. So AOT does this from the beginning because it’s a genocide being committed on a race of people in retaliation for a genocide. Now there’s been another, almost predicted genocide from the victims of the antagonists.
Sasha is a great hunter because she live all her life in the forest, until Gabi hunted her to death. What a circle.
I love your videos! Can you PLEASE make a video about how you write clear and beautiful prose for your novel. THANK YOU so much for your chanel
Beautiful video per usual
I take issue with comparing Gabi to season 1 Eren. Erens hatred for the titans is entirely justified, based on his standpoint and what happened to him. Even more so as we learn about the world this show takes place in. We learn that titans were once human, but are turned into brainless murderous monsters against their will. Who turns them? The marleyans. Eren and his generation grow up under assault, an assault which is retaliation for crimes of their ancestors they don't know of and bear no responsibility for. They are formed by the horrendous experiences with the titans and by the time they learn how the world really works, their mind is made up through the marleyans actions alone.
Gabi is indoctrinated into believing she carries some kind of original sin since she is an eldian. She joins a military that uses titan transformations as weapons of war, just like the ancient eldians did, she partakes in these methods even. She knows fully well that their enemies are humans living on a secluded island, but doesnt see them as fully human.
In short: These two characters are not moral equivalents. Erens hatred in season 1 is a natural consequence of his circumstances and a result of lack of knowledge, also it is directed at mindless killing machines. Whether they were once human is irrelevant, they only follow their instincts as titans. Gabis hatred of anything eldian is the result of indoctrination, a healthy dose of doublethink, learned self-hatred and a lack of introspection. Never once does she question if turning prisoners into monsters and siccing them on human beings might be morally wrong. Not once does she think "people hate us eldians because our ancestors used titans to enslave the known world, so maybe Marley using titans to subjugate the known world might be questionable". She knows everything that is going on and still chooses to remain ignorant of her own moral shortcomings. That is why people dont like her and can't sympathize to the same degree. Eren kickstarting the rumbling is under no illusion, this will make him the worst criminal in history, he has reflected on his actions and still choses to do it because he probably sees a future that he deems worth the price.
there we go, that's what i was looking for
Gabi is a brainwashed fool.
Genuinely thank you for the good take
Except the comparison wasn’t on a moral level, it was a motivation and knowledge-based one. They’re similar in the sense that they see their enemies as pure evil devils that need to be slaughtered so their people can be free. Both Season 1 Eren and Gabi know nothing about the enemies they hate, which is why they’re able to hate them. Once Eren learns the titans are just humans trapped in a nightmare, you never see him act aggressively towards a pure titan again. He even shows extreme sympathy for the one that’s stopped moving and has seemingly lost motivation. He then goes on to hate the people of the outside world, before letting that hatred go when he learns about *those* enemies (unfortunately he still decides to kill them all, but that’s irrelevant because the point is that it’s not out of hatred). Gabi hates the people of Paradis because she falsely believes that if they all die, all the “good Eldians” will be freed of oppression, just like how Eren once falsely believed that if all the titans were killed, the people inside the walls would be free. No, they’re not exactly 1 to 1 comparisons, but the argument isn’t about who is or isn’t morally right, the point is that they both had murderous hatred for a group they perceived to be pure evil, and once they lost that ignorance that hatred disappeared.
@@Ismael-kc3ry the way the comparison is drawn between them is meant to make us question Eren and his intentions at the beginning of the series. It's not a good comparison, and trying to make it as general as possible is just an excuse for less than stellar writing. Eren hated the titans and thought they were monsters, which they objectively are, Gabi was turned into a racist that hated the "bad" Eldians and thought they were monsters, which they objectively are not, at the end of the day they are thinking humans. To borrow your words, even with the knowledge that the titans are transformed humans, they are still mindless murder machines that are "pure evil," so the parallel fails since Gabi's understanding is completely reliant on her being a bigot.
Don't even get me started on how Gabi really only learns and accepts that 'racism bad' 100% during the dinner scene orchestrated by Eren. Isayama has a very baseline understanding on racism and how it realistically works.
One of the best characters ever written!!!!!!!!
Loved It, What an amazing story, what an amazing ride❤
The loop is even more literal. What a great show
"They are not child soldiers
They are anime super highschooler
It's cool and based"
Normally i would have disagreed with you. But since the cringevengers survived the onslaught of past titans without a single casualties i am inclined to think that aot main characters are DBZ characters unfit to the story
So... Three seasons as a prolog, and one season of the actual story. IDK man, something seems off.
Yup, I agree with your assessment, i don't think the Marley arc was even a part of the package, just when I thought AoT has just begun by the finale of season 3, they announced season 4 as the final one..
Damn bruh you doing it. Got to sub
Hit the nail on the head with this video my guy
As an amine only water for this series, the way the final season has been chopped up os not ideal but I don't fault the series for that
It's been hard avoiding spoilers on Twitter though, but alas I shall prevail!
My theory is that no one can actually see the future at all. All they can see is the past. Mikasa is creating new world each time Eren dies. At most Attack Titan owners have an ability to forcibly inhibit future posessors of Attack Titan (sort of "I want my conciousness to inhibit Attack Titan in the future under certain circumstances"). There are theories, that manga and anime are 2 different timelines that are back-to-back. If past Eren possessed future Eren, he wouldn't be able to distinguish whether it was his timeline, as almost everything happened as in his past timeline (Eren is dumb, and probably won't be able to figure this out). That would also explain why "future" Eren would guide "past" Eren and Grisha, so everything would be "accoring to keikaku". He is full of regrets, and in actual fact he is shaping the future from the past. That's why both him and Zeke are surprised, when they saw that Grisha didn't kill royal family. He was manipulating the future, but there is only so much he can manipulate and be completely sure of it's outcome.
Yours is one of the better theories I disagree with as you provided context to your analysis. I always appreciate that.
As I see it, AoT takes place in a deterministic universe, meaning there is only a single timeline and no one really has “free will”. The future is decided by past actions and cannot be changed for any reason. When a person gains the ability to see the future in a deterministic universe, they become what’s known as a perfect predictor. They’re special because they, unlike everyone else, lose the “illusion” of free will. Everyone thinks their choices matter, but in a single timeline, every choice they’re going to make has “already” been made. If you see your friend die in 3 days, any attempt to save them already has failure built in.
Grisha begged Zeke to stop Eren, but right after that proceeded to give Eren the Attack/Founding titans anyway, because he knew he would and cannot deviate. Eren saw he started the Rumbling when he kissed Historia’s hand, spent 3 of the 4 year timeskip trying to find another way, only to feel justified in doing it anyhow. These situations make it seem as what was gonna happen is gonna happen. Facts don’t care about your feelings 😉.
Now, I admit you’re on to something about not seeing the future, but only specifically related to the Attack Titan. The Attack Titan can only see past user memories, just like all the other titans, save for 1. When Eren sees that he starts the Rumbling, he’s really just seeing Grisha’s memories of him starting it, a past titan’s memories. So how come Grisha can see what Eren will do? Because Eren showed him through Paths, same as he did the Owl. But being able to communicate through Paths is a founding Titan ability, which Eren has as long as royal blood is present. Or until Eren is granted Ymir’s power. Once that happens, he states the past, present, and future are all happening for him simultaneously and his head is all mixed up. I believe the confusion comes from Grisha stating “the Attack Titan has always been able to see forward,” but I believe he was misunderstanding the capabilities. He wasn’t trained and Eren was the 1st to possess the Founding that wasn’t a descendant of King Fritz, so how would anybody else really know. Anything Eren manipulates was only to bring about a future that was already destined. Eren had to gaslight Grisha to steal the founding Titan, because Eren & Zeke already knew he did. The moment that Eren & Zeke find themselves in to allow Eren to talk to Grisha could only exist if he already “talked” to him. In AoT, no one has free will, so can anyone truly be free? You can feel like you are, as long as you can’t see the future, because then you’re forced to see things play out regardless of what you want. That being said, everything was gonna happen the exact same, even if no one could see it because there is only a single timeline.
Oh, and until the anime differs from the manga, I expect no significant changes to narrative. Anime-Only Endings can suck it. Anyway, WDYT?
@@APrime25 I hold big dislike to "deterministic" universe, which allows you to send information into the past. From mathematical standpoint, I cannot grasp how this could make sense. Current science is using time as the most fundamental unit of measurement (as far as I understand). Nothing happens if time doesn't flow. There is cause and effect, and you can observe the whole process. But that "deterministic" theory breaks the observation. It just happens. Here comes Grisha Yeager, who doesn't want to kill children. But the very next second he is aight with it. From perspective of those who observed this moment in the past it just doesn't make sense. Is there some mystical time-space energy that flowed into Grisha' brain? If it did, then that makes universe not what you described (as energy would come from god knows where; would it even come from your universe?). If there was no mystical energy, then how to explain?
I currently hold opinion, that you either can travel back in time, and therefore universe doesn't care about paradoxes (as they are nothing more than self fulfilling prophecies, and not actual loops) and you can change the past OR you cannot travel back in time, making universe simple and deterministic. There is no in-between, where logic stops making sense.
@@masrfaker I don’t quite follow you, but in an attempt to be more clear: Eren was able to communicate with people in the past, however, as it was in THE PAST, it means he always did it. Eren transforms into the Attack Titan post training (episode 5), which means he had to have eaten his father (he also had the key, but couldn’t remember how he got it). This means Grisha HAD to have stolen the Founding Titan between episodes 1 & 2. Now we see in episode 79, that Eren gaslights Grisha into stealing the Founding, when it seems he can’t go through with it, but at this point it’s irrelevant from the perspective of plot (the timeline) that Eren made him do it, because we ALREADY know Grisha did it. Eren has been in possession of the Attack/Founding Titans since episode 2, which means episode 79 Eren had ALREADY communicated with Grisha, we (nor Eren, for that matter) just couldn’t see it until episode 79. The Eren of the future, w/ the ability to communicate with the past, could not exist unless he communicated with the past. In the manga, he talks to Armin and explains just what he had to do to the past to make sure things ended up the way they did, and it was something he ABSOLUTELY WOULDN’T HAVE DONE if he could’ve ALTERED anything. I’m leaving out the specific detail to avoid anime-only spoiling, but I thought I saw that you read the manga. This is why the universe is deterministic. Unless you get a character who is a perfect predictor (in this case, Eren), you can’t prove deterministic, but you can once people start being able to observe the future.
@@APrime25 haven't read the manga. In fact, Eren's explanation means jack shit, because he never was the one with the brain. He can misinterpret this ability, for all we know.
The most important highlight (so you could understand) would be: "Here comes Grisha Yeager, who doesn't want to kill children. But the very next second he is aight with it." You are saying that Grisha killed Reiss family, and that's it. You don't care why he did it, as later in the story Eren will become the explanation. I'm talking about cause and effect. Let's put it like that: you have super advanced machinery that can observe states of all particles in a certain region of space. You observe as Grisha is refusing to kill children. But the very next second he changes his mind. What were precursors for that? If you capture state of all atoms in his brain then you can easily simulate his thought process, as long as you can simulate all external stimuli for the brain. But Eren is not present there. If you start saying that Eren talked to him via paths, then it becomes easy for me to say that universe IS NOT pseudo-deterministic mumbo-jumbo where you can go back in time but can't change the past (because paths is a physical construct, that can even be observed by people. Like a device for sharing and storing information).
@@masrfaker Oh ok, I see you’re on some other ish. Past Eren cannot “possess” future Eren. Past Eren must behave and act in a manner so that future Eren can exist, and future Eren chooses memories of things that has happened to him, to share with past Eldians to ensure needed messages and actions are passed along. No one possesses anyone, just memory implants & manipulation. We never observed Grisha saying he didn’t want to kill kids until episode 79, but had we done so, it would’ve looked like he was having 2nd thoughts, then changed his mind and found his resolve. I once jumped into a pool from 2 stories up. At the edge, I hesitated, then I told myself “Don’t be a bitch” and I took the leap. In Grisha’s case, that voice was Eren’s, but the effect was the same. You bringing math into it just makes it unnecessarily complicated.
Determinism simply states all events happen by previously determined causes external to one’s will. We KNOW that people in the past had knowledge of the future that they couldn’t explain: Eren, the Owl, when passing the attack Titan to Grisha told him he had to keep moving forward to save Mikasa & Armin. Grisha asked who were they and the Owl said he didn’t know. Once Eren gains the ability to see Grisha’s memories, he gets that message, which obviously came from his future self.
I don’t know why you keep saying Eren is dumb. He’s not as smart as Armin but he’s not dumb. As long as he isn’t overly emotional (a serious character defect of his), he can strategize pretty effectively. This is proven by the Eren we meet in season 4. As Grisha tells Zeke, while begging him to find a way to stop Eren, “Everything is gonna go the way he wants it to.” He didn’t graduate in the top 10 of the 104 cadet corps by being dumb. I’m not even sure why you’re suggesting he “could’ve misunderstood the ability”, as he doesn’t explain it to anyone, he just DOES it. Grisha was the one who misunderstood because his “memories” of the future Once Ymir granted him her power, he now had the entire history and future of the titans at his disposal, plus the means to communicate with any Eldian at any point in there lives, through Paths. The founding Titan has the power to brainwash all eldians, except for a couple bloodlines, which is what the royal family has been doing to the Paradisians for a century.
I think the best part of AOT is that it is a test of your empathy and bias. Your experience and interpretation of the show is completely dependent on your capability to empathize with the antagonists and your willingness to stay aligned with the protagonists as their actions become worse in worse.
I appreciate your insights. However, I think that I see more aspects of chiastic structures than circular ones in AoT, since not only do the ends and beginnings of plotlines parallel each other but other areas in the story do as well. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Great video! 🙂
Dude I've tried explaining the whole attack titan's powers to my peers so many different ways.... imma just send them this video, thank you lol