➡M4 Mac Mini: Insane Value for Music Production, But… | M4 vs M4 Pro vs M3 Pro vs M1 Pro th-cam.com/video/sUcIO18W3oE/w-d-xo.html ➡M4 Pro MacBook Pro: HUGE Leap for Music Production | M4 Pro vs M3 Pro vs M2 Pro vs M1 Pro th-cam.com/video/hccy19Hm6M8/w-d-xo.html ➡ My $12,000 Music/Video Production Setup, Powered by M1 Max: th-cam.com/video/cA3ms_2Yn-A/w-d-xo.html ℹCORRECTIONS: The 16-core M4 Max is actually also available on the 14-inch MBP. The iMac screen size is 24”, not 27”. Sorry for the mistakes!
Exactly what I needed. I discovered your channel yesterday, searching for info on how much computing power is needed for music production. Learning about the efficiency vs performance core distribution was super helpful. Looking forward to your test results.
Thank you for the video. Usually, people just comment on the numbers without any solid evidence and are simply amazed at how everything is “better,” “stronger,” “more powerful,” and more efficient. But no one actually comments on what it’s like to edit on an M1 Ultra versus an M4 Max (for example) or to work as an audio producer in practice. That doesn’t seem to interest anyone on mainstream internet, even though it’s one of the essentials. That’s why I’m grateful for the video!
Glad you liked the video! I think the technical stats still matter for many use cases, because the newer chips usually gain improved neural engine, media engine, GPU etc. Often times, for stuff like video editing, the newest chip is the better one. It's just that for audio processing, it doesn't really take advantage of components (for now), and because some DAWs can't fully max out the efficiency cores, choosing the right Apple Silicon chips is a bit more complicated for Mac users in the music industry-it's why I started testing Macs specifically for music production to begin with!
@@JamesZhan How can i check how many performance cores are being used? I am on m1max mbp 64gb ram 2tb. I am using Mainstage as my 'instrument' and sometines it has hickups. I using many heavy plugins ,though .
@@mygoogle1525 Hi, according to apple "To view current processor activity, choose Window > CPU Usage. To view recent processor activity, choose Window > CPU History. To display more columns, choose View > Columns, then choose the columns you want to show."
@@ThornbladeGame Hahah!! we're in the same boat..sort of. My Mid 2012 died on me last month so I am eagerly awaiting this test before my order. Trying to decide 12 core or 14 core but I am surprised James is testing the 12 as he already did the 12 core M3Pro last year. Thought he would have gone 14 core this time.
Jeez this guy is amazing, the way he explains, the editing, the way he handles the arrangement of his explanation is just amazing, I love watching his videos! This is definitely the best TH-cam Channel for music producers who need extra information about upgrading their computers (Apple of course). Thanks for this great comment.
Wow, thanks so much for your kind words! I try to put out really polished educational video-probably spend way too much time workshopping the scripts and tweaking the details, but I'm glad someone appreciates it, haha!
@@JamesZhan it is absolutely brilliant, even the way you speak helps so much specially for people who english aren't their first language (Like me [I'm Mexican haha]) so thanks for the content and keep it up!
I have an M2 Ultra Mac Studio that’s seemed to work well since I got it. Lately when I use an intensive midi instrument like Arcade or Cycles it makes one core jump all the way up and I hear crackles… it’s with only that one plugin loaded.. my machine is a 128gb ram machine and has 24core CPU…
@@ernestofdez5635i purchased 14 core 24 gb. M4 pro is 4.38ghz. if you buy 48gb and 14 core its ok , i think performance is more important for any daw.
I wonder if the next generation of the base Mac Studio will compete with the Mac Mini M4 Pro. With this generation, a spec’d-out Mini ended up costing more, and if I remember correctly, the base Mac Studio offered similar or even better performance at a lower cost.
thanks for diving in on this... I have an M1 Max 16" ... the features seem cool to update.. nano texture, thunderbolt 5, better webcam, more brightness... but i think i may wait till the m5 where the max end gets more of a jump. although i would love to see an M1 max vs M4 max comparison... hahah! that is what has me on the fence right now of debating an upgrade
Same boat here. I have the maxed out M1 Max. (10C/32) 2TB/64, extremely tempted to upgrade to M4 Max! Wifi 7 and OLED are the ones missing that’s holding me back
@@RephaelMendoza literally! I got M1 Max 2TB /32, pretty much the same as yours just half the RAM! LOL!! YES! TBH.. was pretty disappointed when I heard Wifi 7 and OLED weren't in there... YET. if I read correctly the iPhone 16's do? but the MBP's don't? I think it'll be worth waiting for Wifi 7 and OLED.. + waiting longer we can hopefully get a more bigger speed bump... so it'll make it seem "worth" the upgrade... so far I tell myself "do I really want to spend 4k (3k with trading the M1 Max in)" just for the $150 nano texture?? ... do let me know if you upgrade though or find something worth upgrading! so far running down the specs I just can't convince myself with not enough of a performance upgrade
@@adrielbthe iPhone 16 Pros have Wifi 7, yes! Also getting them this month, I was about to upgrade all my devices to Wifi 7 with a Wifi 7 router from TP-Link, sucks to see that this new Macbook Pro is stuck in 6E. I may have to stay with the regular screen as the nano texture might affect a little with its color accuracy/reproduction and a little hit on the brightness. Looking at the Geekbench 6 scores on the M4 Max, it is extremely close with the i9 14900K (4060 vs 4200-4400 on the i9), that’s super impressive tbh. I’ll let you know if ever I change my mind and get this! The config that I want is the 16/40 4TB/128 :)
Guys, honestly, apart from wanting the newer thing there cannot be any use case where any of you benefit relevantly from the performance differential. Save your money.
@@RephaelMendoza we'll have to wait and see someone's comparison of the normal pro screen vs the nano texture. thats impressive for the m4 max! do share back when you get time to let us know how you like it and how the config went
I've been playing with the config $ of a M4 Pro Mini vs the M2 Max Studio. Similar but not that much cheaper though. Will be curious of comparison test results.
Watching you helped me choose my M2 Max 14in so Im hoping you can show me whether M4 is gonna be a step forward for audio or an odd step back like last year
Based on your previous video comparing M1, M2, and M3 chips for DAWs, I just bought an MacBook M2 Pro (refurbished). The day after I got it, the M4s came out. I'm returning it and ordered the same MacBook you show in your video here. Thanks for the helpful research.
Hi James when you do your test video please can you include a heavy duty sampler instrument (like VSL pianos, or what you have available), to check how it performs with big sample libraries and many voice counts? That’d be gold
Perhaps I can answer this for you. I have a mac mini with the m2 pro chip and 16 gigs of ram. I use fl studio and so far (in my limited experience) it handles everything without any hickups. There is one particular pad preset (cream of emotion) in omnisphere 2, where it would choke an older i5 pc I had. The mac mini can handle this preset on max voices, and pressing down multiple keys at once whereas the pc couldnt even handle even one key. I dont know if this is a viable reference. However I am pretty sure that whatever m4 machine you get, it will be more than enough for your needs.
@sivur Thanks for sharing your experience with the M2 Pro. I was leaning towards the M4 Pro & up the RAM to 48 GB & 1 TB drive b.c I'll also do video editing with Davinci Resolve. But maybe I can still go with the M4 version 🤔
@ I think that in the upcoming weeks benchmark videos for your specific use case will be available and thus you will be in a better position to decide which configuration is right for you. Best of luck to you and I hope the mac mini will serve you well!
Brother, could you make a video on powerful plugins like Omnisphere, Nexus, Keyscape, and others, to test how many tracks the Mac Mini M4s can handle in different DAWs while running in non-rendered mode?
❓Are you considering getting/upgrading to one of the M4 Macs?? ℹCORRECTIONS: The 16-core M4 Max is actually also available on the 14-inch MBP. The iMac screen size is 24”, not 27”. Sorry for the mistakes! ➡ My $12,000 Music/Video Production Setup, Powered by M1 Max: th-cam.com/video/cA3ms_2Yn-A/w-d-xo.html ➡ The Problem with M3 Pro MacBook Pro for Music Production | M3 Pro vs M2 Pro vs M1 Pro: th-cam.com/video/FSqX4bt9to4/w-d-xo.html
I don’t think I’ll upgrade my m2 pro just yet but the Mac mini sounds enticing from a cost and physical footprint standpoint. Looking forward to your reviews and tests as usual.
Thank you for classifying Apple products for use in music production. Since I want to switch from a PC to a Mac soon, I would be happy if the Digital Performer 11 was included in the review.
Thanks for all the details. I was considering getting a basic Mac Mini and need an audio interface that works well with it. Will you do a video on what is the sweet spot between Mini and what interface can be compatible with it?
This is tough. At this point the jump in processing power from my Mac Studio M1 Max to a 14-core M4 is massive, all I do is mix so it's not a negligible parameter at all. But at the same time, my current Mac is still working perfectly fine and the thought of having to install/authorise everything again is very unappealing lol
My advice is always that if your current Mac is completely meeting your needs, don't upgrade. Time is money. Don't waste time to do the whole setup again if there's no need to. Save the money, or spend it on something that will actually make a difference :)
Bought an M3Pro (14c, 36Gb RAM) earlier this year; while I knew new one's where coming around this time, and the M4 would be worth the wait; I needed the laptop back then... So curious about the comparison! But my M3 is doing just fine for now (Nuendo user)
You made the right choice. There's always the next gen chip coming. We could be getting M5 in Q1 2025? Who knows. The bottom line is that these Apple Silicon Macs are all incredible. I'm still using my M1 Max machine as my daily driver. The fact that new gen chips came out doesn't mean the previous gen chips stop being powerful chips!
@@JamesZhan Thank you James. A little like Brian Tong often says, these Apple silicon Macs are so good… Although I watch & appreciate your videos, I thought for the music work I’m doing a present the M3 will be more than enough. Also I have a great deal with Sky where I pay monthly & after 3 years can upgrade! I do look forward to your test results though with the M4 Pro. Thanks again James.
FINALLY some specs I can get behind! My late 2013 MBP hasn't been able to handle the full extent of my ideas for a solid 3 years. Been waiting and waiting for Apple silicon that'll meet my requirements for live AV performance. Cheers James! Looking forward to watching your full review
Do you think that the 14-Core M4 Pro would perform better in Ableton Live since it has 10 performance cores vs. the 8 in the 12-Core? If cost wasn't a factor, would that be better choice? (I'm curious, since you ordered the 12-Core)
Memory bandwidth SSD speed will make a difference and amount of ram and daw optimization of p and e cores. I would like to see how older Intel macs work but they are no longer optimized for Mac osx but great under windows
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, I don't see how memory bandwidth and SSD speed will matter in the case of audio processing. Memory bandwidth is about how fast the CPU can access the RAM, and audio processing happens on the CPU. Audio mixing doesn't really need fast SSDs either (unless we are talking about a huge session with 192kHz audio, but that's an extreme use case). You can mix a huge project with just 7200RPM HDD. This is why I don't believe memory bandwidth and SSD speed are something you need to worry about if you are buying a Mac for music production. They are more than fast enough for this use case.
Should there be a comparison between an upgraded M4 Pro Mac Mini and the base model of the current Mac Studio? I can’t see the advantage of the Mini against the entry level Studio.
👏🏻🔥❤️ Dude you’re a Mac gem 💎 Cant wait for your performance breakdown. This precursor on the new line is great too of course and sets the stage. Thanks for letting us all know about the disconnect with DAWs and efficiency cores
I wouldn't say my recordings were terribly complex, but I never came close to hitting the limits of my 2010 Mac Pro. I just picked up an M2 Pro Mac Mini that benchmarks roughly 5x higher than said 2010 cMP. Even the base M1 was an absolute beast. Apple Silicon is a music production powerhouse across the board.
I have an "old" 2014 macbook pro i7 2.5ghz seems to run all the same music software as my m2 macbook air fine. We're just being spoiled at this point, apart from the memory and ssd storage not catching up with the cpu speeds on macs
This is kind of my message from my very first Apple silicon Mac review video: we need to view Macs with Apple Silicon chips completely differently than the Intel ones. Most people can probably make do with an M-series Mac that's less spec'ed out than they think they need.
@@JamesZhan Agreed. The only reasong I didn't end up getting a base model M4 Mini is 1) I didn't want to way because 2) I got a good deal on my beefy M2 Pro Mini that still has USB-A ports. Especially now that the base RAM is 16GB, none of them are "weak" by any stretch.
If I end up getting this Mac Mini, i might just stick with 16gb or maybe 24GB. The orchestral music I do is mostly 15-25 tracks on average, and I've seen how well the 16GB on the previous Mini performs with 3x the amount of tracks being used.
Thank you very much for your comparisons, when you make the following comparison of daws on the new Mac mini M4 you could include the new Cubase 14 to see if Steinberg continues to take advantage of all the cores as in Cubase 13. Thanks a lot
Thanks James! You are clearly the gold standard for evaluation of music production Macs. It looks like the era of skimping on performance course is over. I was just thinking about getting a used M1 laptop and I think I will still go that way, but for the future it’s really nice to know that these will be on the refurbished market two or three years from now.
“Gold standard” is definitely an exaggeration, but I appreciate the kind words! The refurbished market is a gold mine for people on a budget or who just want to get the most bang out of their buck
@ definitely appreciating you, James!! by gold standard, I meant in comparison to the others out there who try to do something similar with their reviews. Your information is consistently more useful to me.
I’m curious how much these new chips this will improve latency in Logic Pro compared to my M1 Mac Mini. It would be great to record soft synths while other soft synth tracks play, without having to bounce to audio all the time.
I was waiting your video! And now I’m looking forward to watching your tests on these new chips. As a Pro Tools user that is happy knowing that this DAW now does take advantage of the efficiency cores, I must say that these new chips and computers look really promising. Now, the new Mini blurs the line between it and a Mac Studio/Pro. It’s an incredible value for the cost. As far as the actual MacBook, I’d upgrade to the M4 Max if money was no object. Now, I don’t really need to upgrade so that stays as is for now.
Really looking forward to your test results. I have an M1 Max MacBook Pro that has served me very well but have an itch to upgrade ... but there would need to be a pretty compelling reason. Thanks for your work in this area.
I also use an M1 Max Mac as my daily driver and it's insane how well it holds up after 3 years. M4 chips are looking great but I still doubt it will make it truly switch haha. I guess I will see!
I cant see how the new Mac Studios would be so much different in performance to the new Mac Mini's. Do you think it would be worth waiting for a new Mac Studio or just jump in with the new Mac Mini for Music production? (Cubase)
great timing James! I'm ready to place my order on a Mac Mini. Was planning a M4Pro upgraded with the CPU 14‑core, GPU 20‑core and 48 Gb of Ram, but I'm wondering if the higher price will really be worth it. I'm using Reaper with lots of processing plugins and audio tracks, basically no vst instruments, sampling libraries or virtual instruments.
If you are using no sample libraries and are purely doing mixing, there's no need for 48GB of RAM. Audio processing will use very little RAM. Either the 12-core or the 14-core M4 should do, but you can allocate some of your budget towards getting more SSD.
Seriously waiting for that M4 MacBook Pro video! I’ve been holding out on upgrading to an Apple Silicon MacBook for quite a while-still on Intel. I’m personally leaning toward the 14-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, although the base M4 chip also looks good. The only thing I find weird is the memory configurations, like 24GB and 36GB instead of 32GB. I’d much prefer it if the options were simply 16GB, 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB… at least that feels 'normal' for a computer.
I enjoy the way you present your videos. Always sensible, "here is the information". It is curious how some content creators seem incapable of just getting to the point. They digress, try to include "Entertainment". (which is usually insipid drivel) You... have it dialed in and are appreciated.
Useful info. Thanks. Hopefully if you do the test you can give some attention to single core performance. That is usually the bottleneck in projects with heavy plugins on the master bus. Looking forward to the results.
Macs have been incredible machines for media production in general (that includes music production) since Apple Silicon, IMO! I will definitely compare the M4 to the M1 in my review video, though!
That kind of memory bandwidth is so far beyond what most music production scenarios would require so it’s not really something people need to worry about if they are buying the Mac mainly for music :)
Always a treat to get one of those videos from you! Thank you! The new Mac Mini is probably the best cost-benefit ratio release since the M1 air. I am a bit annoyed that I bought the M3 Air 16/512 in September, now all the releases are 16gb ram and no additional costs... But who could have known :| At least i got my M3 Air for a pretty good edu deal, but it is still unfortunate and I would have waited 100% if I knew that. Looking forward to your tests with the M4 Pro!
Aw that's sweet of you to say! Crazy to think people consider my videos “a treat,” haha. I understand the feeling of missing out, but remember, new tech is always around the corner nowadays, and you still got a great machine. I hope your MBA has been treating you well!
will you please test the inbuilt microphone as well? i’ve heard iphone 16 pro got a decent upgrade there, so it might be interesting to test it on m4 macbook pro
When will you do the test video James? Really excited for it! I hope that Ableton soon figures out a way to use the e-cores too. So far I think M4 Pro 14c or Max 16c are the best choice, only M2 Ultra with a price drop can beat that in a Mac Mini/Studio setup
I'm picking up the MBP on Nov 8 (according to my order status) so expect the video to be up before the end of November! I will try to get it out ASAP but doing these tests accurately and making a video for it is very time-consuming.
Thanks. Im most curious about fan noise working in Ableton. Currently only have Intel Macs, but all of my projects make fans go off and im hoping the new MacBooks don't. Or I wait to see fan noise on new iMac Pro, or just wait for the new studio and not worry at all about it.
The fan noise on the new MacBook Pro is practically non-existent, even with a lot of audio processing going on. It's a completely different story compared to Intel Macs. When it comes to Apple Silicon Macs, the fan noise is the last thing you need to worry about!
Just came across your videos. Thanks for the user end info! Have you done any M processor related videos dealing with tracking/latency performance? Curious to see how these new M4 Mac Minis perform when recording and using VI’s. Thanks!
This is really helpful! I;m thinking of getting the M4 mini for music production and light general use. Would I be better off putting my money into more ram and just getting the 256gb ssd, or would it be better to get the 512gb ssd and less ram? Is the ram more important than the ssd? You’ve mentioned in other comments about amount of samples used determines ram needed, but how much is “too many samples” thank you.
Can you pls cover what this new bandwidth will mean for music? Also, this inclusion of Bluetooth 5 - what it means for external drives and Sampling. Thanks
I'm strongly considering upgrading to an M4 Max from my M1 Max just for the Thunderbolt 5 option which will allow me to daisy chain 2x more Thunderbolt devices than Thunderbolt 4 which could cut down on cables. Also 12 P-cores would be a nice upgrade from 8 in the M1 Max. But I'm going to wait for reviews to come out and see if it is a substantial gain since M2 & M3 were not enough for me to justify upgrading. Great break down as always!
If an m4 with 32 can’t handle your music production something is wrong. At this point you shouldn’t be needing anything more than a M2 with 32 gig.. now it’s just overkill
For composers it’s a different story, I have been recommended to have a base 64gb RAM for a baseline and the higher the better headroom. When the studio releases withe the max/Ultra I’m looking to update.
Hey man, I preordered the mini M4 Pro with the upgraded with the upgraded 16-core CPU/ 20-core GPU, 1 gig SSD but only 28 gigs of ram. Do you think getting the standard M4 10-core CPU/GPU but maxed out 32 gigs of Ram and 2 gig SSD would be better for music production? I still have time to make the switch…
Wow! I'm seriously thinking of "Upgrading" from a M1 Studio Max to a M4 Mini and the amount I would spend would be roughly half of what I spent on my Mac Studio.
To be frank, back in 2020 when Apple announced Apple Silicon for the first time, my initial plan was to get a Mac Mini, but because I wanted 64GB of RAM, the MacBook Pro was the only choice I had. If I were to buy a new Mac for my studio today, it would 100% be the Mac mini with maxed out RAM and storage. Such great value!
This is useful information for all prospective Mac buyers, but not specific to audio production. The headline feature for audio production is an increase in single thread performance, which means that in most DAWs you’ll be able to live track with more plugins on a single channel strip - more performance cores will let you do it on more tracks simultaneously. It won’t decrease round-trip latency, since that is up to the audio driver, conversion, and the processing latency of the plugins used. No CPU speed advances can decrease RTL… it can just give more processing headroom to reduce the likelihood of CPU overloads. TL;DR - like-for like, anyone with an M-series chip in their Mac is not going to experience an immediately noticeable increase in performance. But if they upgrade to a different class of chip (Pro, Max) with a higher performance core count, and they are working with track counts in the hundreds, they will see a more immediate difference.
Exactly, you make a lot of great points. I don’t know why people are praising the op if this video while he has not even given us real data in music production
Tbh I got the one with 8 cores I believe that those 8 cores will do more than compared to my M1 Pro Instead got more ssd this time for my large library
➡M4 Mac Mini: Insane Value for Music Production, But… | M4 vs M4 Pro vs M3 Pro vs M1 Pro th-cam.com/video/sUcIO18W3oE/w-d-xo.html
➡M4 Pro MacBook Pro: HUGE Leap for Music Production | M4 Pro vs M3 Pro vs M2 Pro vs M1 Pro th-cam.com/video/hccy19Hm6M8/w-d-xo.html
➡ My $12,000 Music/Video Production Setup, Powered by M1 Max: th-cam.com/video/cA3ms_2Yn-A/w-d-xo.html
ℹCORRECTIONS: The 16-core M4 Max is actually also available on the 14-inch MBP. The iMac screen size is 24”, not 27”. Sorry for the mistakes!
Exactly what I needed. I discovered your channel yesterday, searching for info on how much computing power is needed for music production. Learning about the efficiency vs performance core distribution was super helpful. Looking forward to your test results.
Welcome to the channel 😁 Glad you found my videos informative!
SAME REASON :D
Thank you for the video. Usually, people just comment on the numbers without any solid evidence and are simply amazed at how everything is “better,” “stronger,” “more powerful,” and more efficient. But no one actually comments on what it’s like to edit on an M1 Ultra versus an M4 Max (for example) or to work as an audio producer in practice. That doesn’t seem to interest anyone on mainstream internet, even though it’s one of the essentials. That’s why I’m grateful for the video!
Glad you liked the video! I think the technical stats still matter for many use cases, because the newer chips usually gain improved neural engine, media engine, GPU etc. Often times, for stuff like video editing, the newest chip is the better one. It's just that for audio processing, it doesn't really take advantage of components (for now), and because some DAWs can't fully max out the efficiency cores, choosing the right Apple Silicon chips is a bit more complicated for Mac users in the music industry-it's why I started testing Macs specifically for music production to begin with!
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@@JamesZhan
How can i check how many performance cores are being used? I am on m1max mbp 64gb ram 2tb. I am using Mainstage as my 'instrument' and sometines it has hickups. I using many heavy plugins ,though .
@@mygoogle1525
Hi, according to apple
"To view current processor activity, choose Window > CPU Usage. To view recent processor activity, choose Window > CPU History. To display more columns, choose View > Columns, then choose the columns you want to show."
@@JamesZhan Out of curiosity, does anything in the audio workflow get GPU compute accelerated?
Can't wait for your M4 test video!
Same, awaiting the test before my order. Planing on upgrading from Macbook Pro 2015.
@@ThornbladeGame Hahah!! we're in the same boat..sort of. My Mid 2012 died on me last month so I am eagerly awaiting this test before my order. Trying to decide 12 core or 14 core but I am surprised James is testing the 12 as he already did the 12 core M3Pro last year. Thought he would have gone 14 core this time.
Jeez this guy is amazing, the way he explains, the editing, the way he handles the arrangement of his explanation is just amazing, I love watching his videos! This is definitely the best TH-cam Channel for music producers who need extra information about upgrading their computers (Apple of course). Thanks for this great comment.
Wow, thanks so much for your kind words! I try to put out really polished educational video-probably spend way too much time workshopping the scripts and tweaking the details, but I'm glad someone appreciates it, haha!
@@JamesZhan it is absolutely brilliant, even the way you speak helps so much specially for people who english aren't their first language (Like me [I'm Mexican haha]) so thanks for the content and keep it up!
I have an M2 Ultra Mac Studio that’s seemed to work well since I got it. Lately when I use an intensive midi instrument like Arcade or Cycles it makes one core jump all the way up and I hear crackles… it’s with only that one plugin loaded.. my machine is a 128gb ram machine and has 24core CPU…
Hope to see your Ableton tests , 24GB ram or 48gb ram? Should I get 12 or 14 core pro chip?
I went with 48gb and 12 cores. Need more ram than cores performance. Also over time ram returns you more.
@@ernestofdez5635i purchased 14 core 24 gb. M4 pro is 4.38ghz. if you buy 48gb and 14 core its ok , i think performance is more important for any daw.
Excited for the testing video!!! Thanks for all the work you do!!!
Regarding the iMac, you mentioned at 3:43 that the 27" display is the best in the price range. The iMac still has a 24" display, with no 27" variant.
I wonder if the next generation of the base Mac Studio will compete with the Mac Mini M4 Pro. With this generation, a spec’d-out Mini ended up costing more, and if I remember correctly, the base Mac Studio offered similar or even better performance at a lower cost.
Thanks!
Please include Digital Performer in your Daw testing.
A man of good taste, I see.
thanks for diving in on this... I have an M1 Max 16" ... the features seem cool to update.. nano texture, thunderbolt 5, better webcam, more brightness... but i think i may wait till the m5 where the max end gets more of a jump. although i would love to see an M1 max vs M4 max comparison... hahah! that is what has me on the fence right now of debating an upgrade
Same boat here. I have the maxed out M1 Max. (10C/32) 2TB/64, extremely tempted to upgrade to M4 Max! Wifi 7 and OLED are the ones missing that’s holding me back
@@RephaelMendoza literally! I got M1 Max 2TB /32, pretty much the same as yours just half the RAM! LOL!! YES! TBH.. was pretty disappointed when I heard Wifi 7 and OLED weren't in there... YET. if I read correctly the iPhone 16's do? but the MBP's don't? I think it'll be worth waiting for Wifi 7 and OLED.. + waiting longer we can hopefully get a more bigger speed bump... so it'll make it seem "worth" the upgrade... so far I tell myself "do I really want to spend 4k (3k with trading the M1 Max in)" just for the $150 nano texture?? ...
do let me know if you upgrade though or find something worth upgrading! so far running down the specs I just can't convince myself with not enough of a performance upgrade
@@adrielbthe iPhone 16 Pros have Wifi 7, yes! Also getting them this month, I was about to upgrade all my devices to Wifi 7 with a Wifi 7 router from TP-Link, sucks to see that this new Macbook Pro is stuck in 6E. I may have to stay with the regular screen as the nano texture might affect a little with its color accuracy/reproduction and a little hit on the brightness. Looking at the Geekbench 6 scores on the M4 Max, it is extremely close with the i9 14900K (4060 vs 4200-4400 on the i9), that’s super impressive tbh. I’ll let you know if ever I change my mind and get this! The config that I want is the 16/40 4TB/128 :)
Guys, honestly, apart from wanting the newer thing there cannot be any use case where any of you benefit relevantly from the performance differential. Save your money.
@@RephaelMendoza we'll have to wait and see someone's comparison of the normal pro screen vs the nano texture. thats impressive for the m4 max! do share back when you get time to let us know how you like it and how the config went
Thanks for the deep reviews 🙏. Would be interesting to see a comparison M1pro to M4pro
I really hope you will do M1 Ultra vs M4 Max. I am really curious :) Thanks!
The M4 Max will probably perform even better than the M2 Ultra in the Mac Studio and the Mac Pro (the 16-core CPU and 40-core GPU version)
@@akselkaru9237 Lets hope its all worth it!
Been waiting for this. James, you have the best comparison video for music production use, keep it going!
Thanks for the kind words! I don’t know about being the best but I try, haha
I've been playing with the config $ of a M4 Pro Mini vs the M2 Max Studio. Similar but not that much cheaper though. Will be curious of comparison test results.
I’m in the same boat. The struggle is real
ill be moving from a mac mini to a m4 pro now, i've been using an m2 air for production portability and imo it just beats sitting at a desk all day
Watching you helped me choose my M2 Max 14in so Im hoping you can show me whether M4 is gonna be a step forward for audio or an odd step back like last year
Based on your previous video comparing M1, M2, and M3 chips for DAWs, I just bought an MacBook M2 Pro (refurbished). The day after I got it, the M4s came out. I'm returning it and ordered the same MacBook you show in your video here. Thanks for the helpful research.
Amazing info and super helpful as always! I hope you don't forget FL Studio on all your tests.
Pro tools just updated this year so they also use efficiency cores now. So check out if your daw maybe also changed that
Hi James when you do your test video please can you include a heavy duty sampler instrument (like VSL pianos, or what you have available), to check how it performs with big sample libraries and many voice counts? That’d be gold
Thanks for this suggestion! I will probably do this in a separate video (first one will be testing core utilization), so keep an eye out for that!
Looking fwd to the Mac Mini breakdown for music production. Which CPU and RAM should we go for?
Perhaps I can answer this for you. I have a mac mini with the m2 pro chip and 16 gigs of ram. I use fl studio and so far (in my limited experience) it handles everything without any hickups. There is one particular pad preset (cream of emotion) in omnisphere 2, where it would choke an older i5 pc I had. The mac mini can handle this preset on max voices, and pressing down multiple keys at once whereas the pc couldnt even handle even one key. I dont know if this is a viable reference. However I am pretty sure that whatever m4 machine you get, it will be more than enough for your needs.
@sivur Thanks for sharing your experience with the M2 Pro. I was leaning towards the M4 Pro & up the RAM to 48 GB & 1 TB drive b.c I'll also do video editing with Davinci Resolve. But maybe I can still go with the M4 version 🤔
@ I think that in the upcoming weeks benchmark videos for your specific use case will be available and thus you will be in a better position to decide which configuration is right for you. Best of luck to you and I hope the mac mini will serve you well!
@sivur thanks 😊 👍🏻
Brother, could you make a video on powerful plugins like Omnisphere, Nexus, Keyscape, and others, to test how many tracks the Mac Mini M4s can handle in different DAWs while running in non-rendered mode?
As a user of the base model m1 air, I HAVE TO get an M4 Pro Mac Mini! It seems like a great deal.
❓Are you considering getting/upgrading to one of the M4 Macs??
ℹCORRECTIONS: The 16-core M4 Max is actually also available on the 14-inch MBP. The iMac screen size is 24”, not 27”. Sorry for the mistakes!
➡ My $12,000 Music/Video Production Setup, Powered by M1 Max: th-cam.com/video/cA3ms_2Yn-A/w-d-xo.html
➡ The Problem with M3 Pro MacBook Pro for Music Production | M3 Pro vs M2 Pro vs M1 Pro: th-cam.com/video/FSqX4bt9to4/w-d-xo.html
yes for sure ! Time to upgrade my MBP 2017 intel :) 😂 But I’ll wait your video before deciding anything. Thank you for your informative videos😊
I don’t think I’ll upgrade my m2 pro just yet but the Mac mini sounds enticing from a cost and physical footprint standpoint. Looking forward to your reviews and tests as usual.
MacBook Pro M1 Max is more than enough for music production and video editing for me
@@RuinThatDay if you are still on intel, even the M1 Macs are gonna be an insane upgrade for you!
Standard should be 1tb ssd, upgradable to 4tb for $200, memory upgradable to 32gb/64gb
Thank you for classifying Apple products for use in music production. Since I want to switch from a PC to a Mac soon, I would be happy if the Digital Performer 11 was included in the review.
Thanks for all the details. I was considering getting a basic Mac Mini and need an audio interface that works well with it. Will you do a video on what is the sweet spot between Mini and what interface can be compatible with it?
This is tough. At this point the jump in processing power from my Mac Studio M1 Max to a 14-core M4 is massive, all I do is mix so it's not a negligible parameter at all. But at the same time, my current Mac is still working perfectly fine and the thought of having to install/authorise everything again is very unappealing lol
My advice is always that if your current Mac is completely meeting your needs, don't upgrade. Time is money. Don't waste time to do the whole setup again if there's no need to. Save the money, or spend it on something that will actually make a difference :)
Bought an M3Pro (14c, 36Gb RAM) earlier this year; while I knew new one's where coming around this time, and the M4 would be worth the wait; I needed the laptop back then... So curious about the comparison! But my M3 is doing just fine for now (Nuendo user)
I was the same, but so far enjoying the M3 Pro. 🙂
You made the right choice. There's always the next gen chip coming. We could be getting M5 in Q1 2025? Who knows. The bottom line is that these Apple Silicon Macs are all incredible. I'm still using my M1 Max machine as my daily driver. The fact that new gen chips came out doesn't mean the previous gen chips stop being powerful chips!
@@JamesZhan Thank you James. A little like Brian Tong often says, these Apple silicon Macs are so good… Although I watch & appreciate your videos, I thought for the music work I’m doing a present the M3 will be more than enough. Also I have a great deal with Sky where I pay monthly & after 3 years can upgrade!
I do look forward to your test results though with the M4 Pro.
Thanks again James.
There’s no m3 pro with 14 c just m3 max
@@HarunoGasai ah yes excuse me, the 12core. I got confused
Soon as I saw the MKBHD M4 Mac Mini video I hoped you made a video about it.
Thank you.
FINALLY some specs I can get behind! My late 2013 MBP hasn't been able to handle the full extent of my ideas for a solid 3 years. Been waiting and waiting for Apple silicon that'll meet my requirements for live AV performance. Cheers James! Looking forward to watching your full review
I got M1 Max with 32 gb ram and 1 tb ssd and it’s an absolute beast
Absolutely great job! Thanks for you to focus on the macbook pro music production. Can't wait to watch your m4 pro macbook pro test!
Do you think that the 14-Core M4 Pro would perform better in Ableton Live since it has 10 performance cores vs. the 8 in the 12-Core? If cost wasn't a factor, would that be better choice? (I'm curious, since you ordered the 12-Core)
Memory bandwidth SSD speed will make a difference and amount of ram and daw optimization of p and e cores.
I would like to see how older Intel macs work but they are no longer optimized for Mac osx but great under windows
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, I don't see how memory bandwidth and SSD speed will matter in the case of audio processing.
Memory bandwidth is about how fast the CPU can access the RAM, and audio processing happens on the CPU. Audio mixing doesn't really need fast SSDs either (unless we are talking about a huge session with 192kHz audio, but that's an extreme use case). You can mix a huge project with just 7200RPM HDD.
This is why I don't believe memory bandwidth and SSD speed are something you need to worry about if you are buying a Mac for music production. They are more than fast enough for this use case.
Thanks a lot James - looking forward to your music production benchmarking/tests
Should there be a comparison between an upgraded M4 Pro Mac Mini and the base model of the current Mac Studio? I can’t see the advantage of the Mini against the entry level Studio.
I love your videos and i am very excited for your DAW tests with the new M4 Macs 😊
👏🏻🔥❤️ Dude you’re a Mac gem 💎 Cant wait for your performance breakdown. This precursor on the new line is great too of course and sets the stage. Thanks for letting us all know about the disconnect with DAWs and efficiency cores
I appreciate your kind words! 🙏 And thanks for being a subscriber for 11 months!!
I wouldn't say my recordings were terribly complex, but I never came close to hitting the limits of my 2010 Mac Pro. I just picked up an M2 Pro Mac Mini that benchmarks roughly 5x higher than said 2010 cMP. Even the base M1 was an absolute beast. Apple Silicon is a music production powerhouse across the board.
I have an "old" 2014 macbook pro i7 2.5ghz seems to run all the same music software as my m2 macbook air fine. We're just being spoiled at this point, apart from the memory and ssd storage not catching up with the cpu speeds on macs
This is kind of my message from my very first Apple silicon Mac review video: we need to view Macs with Apple Silicon chips completely differently than the Intel ones. Most people can probably make do with an M-series Mac that's less spec'ed out than they think they need.
@@JamesZhan Agreed. The only reasong I didn't end up getting a base model M4 Mini is 1) I didn't want to way because 2) I got a good deal on my beefy M2 Pro Mini that still has USB-A ports. Especially now that the base RAM is 16GB, none of them are "weak" by any stretch.
If I end up getting this Mac Mini, i might just stick with 16gb or maybe 24GB. The orchestral music I do is mostly 15-25 tracks on average, and I've seen how well the 16GB on the previous Mini performs with 3x the amount of tracks being used.
Thank you very much for your comparisons, when you make the following comparison of daws on the new Mac mini M4 you could include the new Cubase 14 to see if Steinberg continues to take advantage of all the cores as in Cubase 13. Thanks a lot
Sure thing!
Thanks James! You are clearly the gold standard for evaluation of music production Macs. It looks like the era of skimping on performance course is over. I was just thinking about getting a used M1 laptop and I think I will still go that way, but for the future it’s really nice to know that these will be on the refurbished market two or three years from now.
“Gold standard” is definitely an exaggeration, but I appreciate the kind words! The refurbished market is a gold mine for people on a budget or who just want to get the most bang out of their buck
@ definitely appreciating you, James!! by gold standard, I meant in comparison to the others out there who try to do something similar with their reviews. Your information is consistently more useful to me.
Glad they are moving toward more Performance cores. I just bought a 12 core M2 Pro 14 in 1tb 16gbram
Nice quality videos! Straight to the point and always interesting. Well done
hurry and test James! i need to know which m4 mini i should buy for logic. peashhh
I see a new James Zhan reaction to Apple M4, I opened the video and hit the LIKE button right away. Thank you James, you're a class act!
Man you are the MVP! I hope the video was worth your like after you watched it, haha!
@@JamesZhan Top notch as always! You are the KING of macbook DAW reviews!
I’m curious how much these new chips this will improve latency in Logic Pro compared to my M1 Mac Mini. It would be great to record soft synths while other soft synth tracks play, without having to bounce to audio all the time.
Waiting for this 🥰 thank you james
Thanks for introduction ! I’d like to know if upgrading the MacBook Pro from a 12-core CPU to a 14-core CPU is worthwhile for music production?
I was waiting your video!
And now I’m looking forward to watching your tests on these new chips.
As a Pro Tools user that is happy knowing that this DAW now does take advantage of the efficiency cores, I must say that these new chips and computers look really promising.
Now, the new Mini blurs the line between it and a Mac Studio/Pro.
It’s an incredible value for the cost.
As far as the actual MacBook, I’d upgrade to the M4 Max if money was no object.
Now, I don’t really need to upgrade so that stays as is for now.
My m2 pro mini has 12 core cpu with 8 performance cores
Really looking forward to your test results. I have an M1 Max MacBook Pro that has served me very well but have an itch to upgrade ... but there would need to be a pretty compelling reason. Thanks for your work in this area.
I also use an M1 Max Mac as my daily driver and it's insane how well it holds up after 3 years. M4 chips are looking great but I still doubt it will make it truly switch haha. I guess I will see!
I cant see how the new Mac Studios would be so much different in performance to the new Mac Mini's. Do you think it would be worth waiting for a new Mac Studio or just jump in with the new Mac Mini for Music production? (Cubase)
Thanks for the core breakdown. This matters.
great timing James! I'm ready to place my order on a Mac Mini. Was planning a M4Pro upgraded with the CPU 14‑core, GPU 20‑core and 48 Gb of Ram, but I'm wondering if the higher price will really be worth it. I'm using Reaper with lots of processing plugins and audio tracks, basically no vst instruments, sampling libraries or virtual instruments.
If you are using no sample libraries and are purely doing mixing, there's no need for 48GB of RAM. Audio processing will use very little RAM. Either the 12-core or the 14-core M4 should do, but you can allocate some of your budget towards getting more SSD.
Will you be testing the m4 Pro 24G unified?
Seriously waiting for that M4 MacBook Pro video! I’ve been holding out on upgrading to an Apple Silicon MacBook for quite a while-still on Intel. I’m personally leaning toward the 14-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, although the base M4 chip also looks good. The only thing I find weird is the memory configurations, like 24GB and 36GB instead of 32GB. I’d much prefer it if the options were simply 16GB, 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB… at least that feels 'normal' for a computer.
What a great practical explanation (and visuals to boot!). TY
Glad you like it!
I enjoy the way you present your videos. Always sensible, "here is the information". It is curious how some content creators seem incapable of just getting to the point. They digress, try to include "Entertainment". (which is usually insipid drivel) You... have it dialed in and are appreciated.
The best video for real time usage!!! Thank you!!
hey! are you going to do a video on the base model mac mini for music production?
Useful info. Thanks. Hopefully if you do the test you can give some attention to single core performance. That is usually the bottleneck in projects with heavy plugins on the master bus. Looking forward to the results.
Might do this in a separate video!
thanks for sharing.. curious on the m1 vs m4 comparison for music production.. been waiting to jump in on a mac and now might be the time? :)
Macs have been incredible machines for media production in general (that includes music production) since Apple Silicon, IMO! I will definitely compare the M4 to the M1 in my review video, though!
THANK YOU! best reviews on the tube
The M4 Max also has double the internal bandwidth of over 500GB/sec
That kind of memory bandwidth is so far beyond what most music production scenarios would require so it’s not really something people need to worry about if they are buying the Mac mainly for music :)
Always a treat to get one of those videos from you! Thank you!
The new Mac Mini is probably the best cost-benefit ratio release since the M1 air.
I am a bit annoyed that I bought the M3 Air 16/512 in September, now all the releases are 16gb ram and no additional costs... But who could have known :|
At least i got my M3 Air for a pretty good edu deal, but it is still unfortunate and I would have waited 100% if I knew that.
Looking forward to your tests with the M4 Pro!
Aw that's sweet of you to say! Crazy to think people consider my videos “a treat,” haha.
I understand the feeling of missing out, but remember, new tech is always around the corner nowadays, and you still got a great machine. I hope your MBA has been treating you well!
will you please test the inbuilt microphone as well? i’ve heard iphone 16 pro got a decent upgrade there, so it might be interesting to test it on m4 macbook pro
Hmm that's a good point! Thanks for the suggestion! I might test it in a separate video
When will you do the test video James? Really excited for it! I hope that Ableton soon figures out a way to use the e-cores too. So far I think M4 Pro 14c or Max 16c are the best choice, only M2 Ultra with a price drop can beat that in a Mac Mini/Studio setup
I'm picking up the MBP on Nov 8 (according to my order status) so expect the video to be up before the end of November! I will try to get it out ASAP but doing these tests accurately and making a video for it is very time-consuming.
Great video..But..The 16 core version of the M4 max chip is also available on the 14" ..
Good catch! Will put the correct info in the pinned comment :)
Cheers mate👍😉 Look forward to the hands on test👊
Thanks. Im most curious about fan noise working in Ableton. Currently only have Intel Macs, but all of my projects make fans go off and im hoping the new MacBooks don't. Or I wait to see fan noise on new iMac Pro, or just wait for the new studio and not worry at all about it.
The fan noise on the new MacBook Pro is practically non-existent, even with a lot of audio processing going on. It's a completely different story compared to Intel Macs. When it comes to Apple Silicon Macs, the fan noise is the last thing you need to worry about!
Love the visuals! So easy to see where your money goes in terms of CPU cores
Yeah I specifically created the motion graphics to more easily visualize the CPU core distribution in different chips!
Just came across your videos. Thanks for the user end info! Have you done any M processor related videos dealing with tracking/latency performance? Curious to see how these new M4 Mac Minis perform when recording and using VI’s. Thanks!
Thanks for the suggestion! This is a good idea for a separate video; I will definitely consider it!
Grande James! Trabajazoo
when will you upload the video of macbook pro m4 mate ? really need your review
Looking forward to your full review!
Coming soon!
This is really helpful! I;m thinking of getting the M4 mini for music production and light general use. Would I be better off putting my money into more ram and just getting the 256gb ssd, or would it be better to get the 512gb ssd and less ram? Is the ram more important than the ssd? You’ve mentioned in other comments about amount of samples used determines ram needed, but how much is “too many samples” thank you.
Can you pls cover what this new bandwidth will mean for music?
Also, this inclusion of Bluetooth 5 - what it means for external drives and Sampling.
Thanks
The video I was waiting for! Would love to see a comparison of your M4 Pro with M4 Max using Logic. Thank you :)
I'm strongly considering upgrading to an M4 Max from my M1 Max just for the Thunderbolt 5 option which will allow me to daisy chain 2x more Thunderbolt devices than Thunderbolt 4 which could cut down on cables. Also 12 P-cores would be a nice upgrade from 8 in the M1 Max. But I'm going to wait for reviews to come out and see if it is a substantial gain since M2 & M3 were not enough for me to justify upgrading. Great break down as always!
Please consider Bitwig in your comparison!!!
If an m4 with 32 can’t handle your music production something is wrong. At this point you shouldn’t be needing anything more than a M2 with 32 gig.. now it’s just overkill
For composers it’s a different story, I have been recommended to have a base 64gb RAM for a baseline and the higher the better headroom. When the studio releases withe the max/Ultra I’m looking to update.
What about comparing the M4 Mac mini’s memory bandwidth against the M2 Mac mini’s? Is that a consideration?
Been waiting for this one James!
Looking at getting a new mini before the end of the year. Is the M2 pro mini still a good choice or is it worth getting a M4?
Jumping from a 2016 i7 MBP to a M4 Pro MBP! So stoked to see the difference
strap in!
O you will be mind blown
thanks a lot...nice work ...will be great to see some measurements with Cubase + M4 chips
Hey man, I preordered the mini M4 Pro with the upgraded with the upgraded 16-core CPU/ 20-core GPU, 1 gig SSD but only 28 gigs of ram. Do you think getting the standard M4 10-core CPU/GPU but maxed out 32 gigs of Ram and 2 gig SSD would be better for music production? I still have time to make the switch…
I would suggest 32 gigs of ram and 1tb ssd if you have an external ssd drive. 🎹💙
Wow! I'm seriously thinking of "Upgrading" from a M1 Studio Max to a M4 Mini and the amount I would spend would be roughly half of what I spent on my Mac Studio.
To be frank, back in 2020 when Apple announced Apple Silicon for the first time, my initial plan was to get a Mac Mini, but because I wanted 64GB of RAM, the MacBook Pro was the only choice I had. If I were to buy a new Mac for my studio today, it would 100% be the Mac mini with maxed out RAM and storage. Such great value!
@@JamesZhan Thanks for the reply and thank you for such quality and well thought-out content.
@@JamesZhanIs more than 24GBs of memory needed in music production?
@@oldman1517 It depends on what you're doing. Nowadays it often is.
More plug ins more problems
This is useful information for all prospective Mac buyers, but not specific to audio production.
The headline feature for audio production is an increase in single thread performance, which means that in most DAWs you’ll be able to live track with more plugins on a single channel strip - more performance cores will let you do it on more tracks simultaneously. It won’t decrease round-trip latency, since that is up to the audio driver, conversion, and the processing latency of the plugins used. No CPU speed advances can decrease RTL… it can just give more processing headroom to reduce the likelihood of CPU overloads.
TL;DR - like-for like, anyone with an M-series chip in their Mac is not going to experience an immediately noticeable increase in performance. But if they upgrade to a different class of chip (Pro, Max) with a higher performance core count, and they are working with track counts in the hundreds, they will see a more immediate difference.
Exactly, you make a lot of great points. I don’t know why people are praising the op if this video while he has not even given us real data in music production
I will be spec'ing up my purchase, should I get M4 MacBook Pro or just wait for Macbook Studio for music production?
Thank you! Very interested in M4 Pro results 👍
I am interested if the base M4 10 cores, beats the M1 Pro in Logic pro. M1 pro has 8P+2E while M4 base has 4P+6E 🧐
I actually DO plan to test that! But it will be in a separate video, probably in December! So keep an eye out for that :)
@JamesZhan Awesome!
Tbh I got the one with 8 cores
I believe that those 8 cores will do more than compared to my M1 Pro
Instead got more ssd this time for my large library
You can order a M3 Max 16 core for the same price you get a M4 pro now. Any guesses which one is better for big sessions in Nuendo/cubase?
Hype for the Macbook Pro M4 test
Appreciate the HYPE
I know you addressed this in an earlier video, do you know if any of the recent Pro Tools releases are tapping into the efficiency cores yet?
I would like you to test LUNA.