My M4 Pro MacBook Pro Testing video is here! Watch it ➡th-cam.com/video/hccy19Hm6M8/w-d-xo.html ℹCORRECTIONS: The 16-core M4 Max is actually also available on the 14-inch MBP. The iMac screen size is 24”, not 27”. Sorry for the mistakes! ➡ My $12,000 Music/Video Production Setup, Powered by M1 Max: th-cam.com/video/cA3ms_2Yn-A/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the video. Usually, people just comment on the numbers without any solid evidence and are simply amazed at how everything is “better,” “stronger,” “more powerful,” and more efficient. But no one actually comments on what it’s like to edit on an M1 Ultra versus an M4 Max (for example) or to work as an audio producer in practice. That doesn’t seem to interest anyone on mainstream internet, even though it’s one of the essentials. That’s why I’m grateful for the video!
Glad you liked the video! I think the technical stats still matter for many use cases, because the newer chips usually gain improved neural engine, media engine, GPU etc. Often times, for stuff like video editing, the newest chip is the better one. It's just that for audio processing, it doesn't really take advantage of components (for now), and because some DAWs can't fully max out the efficiency cores, choosing the right Apple Silicon chips is a bit more complicated for Mac users in the music industry-it's why I started testing Macs specifically for music production to begin with!
@@JamesZhan How can i check how many performance cores are being used? I am on m1max mbp 64gb ram 2tb. I am using Mainstage as my 'instrument' and sometines it has hickups. I using many heavy plugins ,though .
@@mygoogle1525 Hi, according to apple "To view current processor activity, choose Window > CPU Usage. To view recent processor activity, choose Window > CPU History. To display more columns, choose View > Columns, then choose the columns you want to show."
Exactly what I needed. I discovered your channel yesterday, searching for info on how much computing power is needed for music production. Learning about the efficiency vs performance core distribution was super helpful. Looking forward to your test results.
Jeez this guy is amazing, the way he explains, the editing, the way he handles the arrangement of his explanation is just amazing, I love watching his videos! This is definitely the best TH-cam Channel for music producers who need extra information about upgrading their computers (Apple of course). Thanks for this great comment.
Wow, thanks so much for your kind words! I try to put out really polished educational video-probably spend way too much time workshopping the scripts and tweaking the details, but I'm glad someone appreciates it, haha!
@@JamesZhan it is absolutely brilliant, even the way you speak helps so much specially for people who english aren't their first language (Like me [I'm Mexican haha]) so thanks for the content and keep it up!
@@ThornbladeGame Hahah!! we're in the same boat..sort of. My Mid 2012 died on me last month so I am eagerly awaiting this test before my order. Trying to decide 12 core or 14 core but I am surprised James is testing the 12 as he already did the 12 core M3Pro last year. Thought he would have gone 14 core this time.
Bought a M1 Max MacBook Pro with 64 gb ram based on your video. This was during the M3 era. I use Studio One. I would have made a huge price to performance mistake if it weren’t for you. No joke. You have done real work in my financial/frustration life. I don’t throw around the word hero often but today I have little reservation. Hero. Edit: even though I’m happy with my machine, thanks to you, and won’t be migrating to a machine anytime soon; I will continue to follow your new findings. Good content, sir
You are too kind! Glad my video helped. Apple Silicon Macs are all super great machines for music production in general and I feel like most people can easily stay on the same machine for 5-7 years. I'm still rocking my M1 Max as my daily driver
@@JamesZhan I was rocking a late 2012 trashcan with with a 12 core and 32gb up until a year and change ago. No more OS updates = software drivers leaving you behind. You were 100% my means of migration to new machine.
I wonder if the next generation of the base Mac Studio will compete with the Mac Mini M4 Pro. With this generation, a spec’d-out Mini ended up costing more, and if I remember correctly, the base Mac Studio offered similar or even better performance at a lower cost.
@@ernestofdez5635i purchased 14 core 24 gb. M4 pro is 4.38ghz. if you buy 48gb and 14 core its ok , i think performance is more important for any daw.
Based on your previous video comparing M1, M2, and M3 chips for DAWs, I just bought an MacBook M2 Pro (refurbished). The day after I got it, the M4s came out. I'm returning it and ordered the same MacBook you show in your video here. Thanks for the helpful research.
Watching you helped me choose my M2 Max 14in so Im hoping you can show me whether M4 is gonna be a step forward for audio or an odd step back like last year
👏🏻🔥❤️ Dude you’re a Mac gem 💎 Cant wait for your performance breakdown. This precursor on the new line is great too of course and sets the stage. Thanks for letting us all know about the disconnect with DAWs and efficiency cores
thanks for diving in on this... I have an M1 Max 16" ... the features seem cool to update.. nano texture, thunderbolt 5, better webcam, more brightness... but i think i may wait till the m5 where the max end gets more of a jump. although i would love to see an M1 max vs M4 max comparison... hahah! that is what has me on the fence right now of debating an upgrade
Same boat here. I have the maxed out M1 Max. (10C/32) 2TB/64, extremely tempted to upgrade to M4 Max! Wifi 7 and OLED are the ones missing that’s holding me back
@@RephaelMendoza literally! I got M1 Max 2TB /32, pretty much the same as yours just half the RAM! LOL!! YES! TBH.. was pretty disappointed when I heard Wifi 7 and OLED weren't in there... YET. if I read correctly the iPhone 16's do? but the MBP's don't? I think it'll be worth waiting for Wifi 7 and OLED.. + waiting longer we can hopefully get a more bigger speed bump... so it'll make it seem "worth" the upgrade... so far I tell myself "do I really want to spend 4k (3k with trading the M1 Max in)" just for the $150 nano texture?? ... do let me know if you upgrade though or find something worth upgrading! so far running down the specs I just can't convince myself with not enough of a performance upgrade
@@adrielbthe iPhone 16 Pros have Wifi 7, yes! Also getting them this month, I was about to upgrade all my devices to Wifi 7 with a Wifi 7 router from TP-Link, sucks to see that this new Macbook Pro is stuck in 6E. I may have to stay with the regular screen as the nano texture might affect a little with its color accuracy/reproduction and a little hit on the brightness. Looking at the Geekbench 6 scores on the M4 Max, it is extremely close with the i9 14900K (4060 vs 4200-4400 on the i9), that’s super impressive tbh. I’ll let you know if ever I change my mind and get this! The config that I want is the 16/40 4TB/128 :)
Guys, honestly, apart from wanting the newer thing there cannot be any use case where any of you benefit relevantly from the performance differential. Save your money.
@@RephaelMendoza we'll have to wait and see someone's comparison of the normal pro screen vs the nano texture. thats impressive for the m4 max! do share back when you get time to let us know how you like it and how the config went
I've been playing with the config $ of a M4 Pro Mini vs the M2 Max Studio. Similar but not that much cheaper though. Will be curious of comparison test results.
FINALLY some specs I can get behind! My late 2013 MBP hasn't been able to handle the full extent of my ideas for a solid 3 years. Been waiting and waiting for Apple silicon that'll meet my requirements for live AV performance. Cheers James! Looking forward to watching your full review
Thank you for classifying Apple products for use in music production. Since I want to switch from a PC to a Mac soon, I would be happy if the Digital Performer 11 was included in the review.
I wouldn't say my recordings were terribly complex, but I never came close to hitting the limits of my 2010 Mac Pro. I just picked up an M2 Pro Mac Mini that benchmarks roughly 5x higher than said 2010 cMP. Even the base M1 was an absolute beast. Apple Silicon is a music production powerhouse across the board.
I have an "old" 2014 macbook pro i7 2.5ghz seems to run all the same music software as my m2 macbook air fine. We're just being spoiled at this point, apart from the memory and ssd storage not catching up with the cpu speeds on macs
This is kind of my message from my very first Apple silicon Mac review video: we need to view Macs with Apple Silicon chips completely differently than the Intel ones. Most people can probably make do with an M-series Mac that's less spec'ed out than they think they need.
@@JamesZhan Agreed. The only reasong I didn't end up getting a base model M4 Mini is 1) I didn't want to way because 2) I got a good deal on my beefy M2 Pro Mini that still has USB-A ports. Especially now that the base RAM is 16GB, none of them are "weak" by any stretch.
Hi James!! TRULY LOVE your videos. I am a keyboard player. I typically used my (old 2012 Intel) MBP for backing tracks in Logic and Mainstage while playing along via VST synths/organ. Time to upgrade as my board finally died. Do you think the new M4Pro 14 Core (10 P 4E) will be ok?? Also, will the standard 24GB Ram be efficient or do you recommend upgrading to 48GB?? I guess I can always buy and test it and exchange if need be, I was just curious on your thoughts. I am surprised though that you are testing the 12 core as you already tested the 12 core M3pro last year. Thought you would have tested the 14core this time around....oh well, still excited to hear your findings. Many many thanks! Darrin
great timing James! I'm ready to place my order on a Mac Mini. Was planning a M4Pro upgraded with the CPU 14‑core, GPU 20‑core and 48 Gb of Ram, but I'm wondering if the higher price will really be worth it. I'm using Reaper with lots of processing plugins and audio tracks, basically no vst instruments, sampling libraries or virtual instruments.
If you are using no sample libraries and are purely doing mixing, there's no need for 48GB of RAM. Audio processing will use very little RAM. Either the 12-core or the 14-core M4 should do, but you can allocate some of your budget towards getting more SSD.
If I end up getting this Mac Mini, i might just stick with 16gb or maybe 24GB. The orchestral music I do is mostly 15-25 tracks on average, and I've seen how well the 16GB on the previous Mini performs with 3x the amount of tracks being used.
This is useful information for all prospective Mac buyers, but not specific to audio production. The headline feature for audio production is an increase in single thread performance, which means that in most DAWs you’ll be able to live track with more plugins on a single channel strip - more performance cores will let you do it on more tracks simultaneously. It won’t decrease round-trip latency, since that is up to the audio driver, conversion, and the processing latency of the plugins used. No CPU speed advances can decrease RTL… it can just give more processing headroom to reduce the likelihood of CPU overloads. TL;DR - like-for like, anyone with an M-series chip in their Mac is not going to experience an immediately noticeable increase in performance. But if they upgrade to a different class of chip (Pro, Max) with a higher performance core count, and they are working with track counts in the hundreds, they will see a more immediate difference.
Exactly, you make a lot of great points. I don’t know why people are praising the op if this video while he has not even given us real data in music production
How is the 24GB of RAM in the M4 Pro for music production? I’m planning to the the Mac mini m4Pro and need to know if I should spend the money to upgrade the RAM.
Hey man, I preordered the mini M4 Pro with the upgraded with the upgraded 16-core CPU/ 20-core GPU, 1 gig SSD but only 28 gigs of ram. Do you think getting the standard M4 10-core CPU/GPU but maxed out 32 gigs of Ram and 2 gig SSD would be better for music production? I still have time to make the switch…
I have an M2 Ultra Mac Studio that’s seemed to work well since I got it. Lately when I use an intensive midi instrument like Arcade or Cycles it makes one core jump all the way up and I hear crackles… it’s with only that one plugin loaded.. my machine is a 128gb ram machine and has 24core CPU…
Seriously waiting for that M4 MacBook Pro video! I’ve been holding out on upgrading to an Apple Silicon MacBook for quite a while-still on Intel. I’m personally leaning toward the 14-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, although the base M4 chip also looks good. The only thing I find weird is the memory configurations, like 24GB and 36GB instead of 32GB. I’d much prefer it if the options were simply 16GB, 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB… at least that feels 'normal' for a computer.
Should there be a comparison between an upgraded M4 Pro Mac Mini and the base model of the current Mac Studio? I can’t see the advantage of the Mini against the entry level Studio.
This is really helpful! I;m thinking of getting the M4 mini for music production and light general use. Would I be better off putting my money into more ram and just getting the 256gb ssd, or would it be better to get the 512gb ssd and less ram? Is the ram more important than the ssd? You’ve mentioned in other comments about amount of samples used determines ram needed, but how much is “too many samples” thank you.
Thanks James! You are clearly the gold standard for evaluation of music production Macs. It looks like the era of skimping on performance course is over. I was just thinking about getting a used M1 laptop and I think I will still go that way, but for the future it’s really nice to know that these will be on the refurbished market two or three years from now.
“Gold standard” is definitely an exaggeration, but I appreciate the kind words! The refurbished market is a gold mine for people on a budget or who just want to get the most bang out of their buck
@ definitely appreciating you, James!! by gold standard, I meant in comparison to the others out there who try to do something similar with their reviews. Your information is consistently more useful to me.
Really looking forward to your test results. I have an M1 Max MacBook Pro that has served me very well but have an itch to upgrade ... but there would need to be a pretty compelling reason. Thanks for your work in this area.
I also use an M1 Max Mac as my daily driver and it's insane how well it holds up after 3 years. M4 chips are looking great but I still doubt it will make it truly switch haha. I guess I will see!
Useful info. Thanks. Hopefully if you do the test you can give some attention to single core performance. That is usually the bottleneck in projects with heavy plugins on the master bus. Looking forward to the results.
I'm strongly considering upgrading to an M4 Max from my M1 Max just for the Thunderbolt 5 option which will allow me to daisy chain 2x more Thunderbolt devices than Thunderbolt 4 which could cut down on cables. Also 12 P-cores would be a nice upgrade from 8 in the M1 Max. But I'm going to wait for reviews to come out and see if it is a substantial gain since M2 & M3 were not enough for me to justify upgrading. Great break down as always!
Always a treat to get one of those videos from you! Thank you! The new Mac Mini is probably the best cost-benefit ratio release since the M1 air. I am a bit annoyed that I bought the M3 Air 16/512 in September, now all the releases are 16gb ram and no additional costs... But who could have known :| At least i got my M3 Air for a pretty good edu deal, but it is still unfortunate and I would have waited 100% if I knew that. Looking forward to your tests with the M4 Pro!
Aw that's sweet of you to say! Crazy to think people consider my videos “a treat,” haha. I understand the feeling of missing out, but remember, new tech is always around the corner nowadays, and you still got a great machine. I hope your MBA has been treating you well!
I cant see how the new Mac Studios would be so much different in performance to the new Mac Mini's. Do you think it would be worth waiting for a new Mac Studio or just jump in with the new Mac Mini for Music production? (Cubase)
Do you think that the 14-Core M4 Pro would perform better in Ableton Live since it has 10 performance cores vs. the 8 in the 12-Core? If cost wasn't a factor, would that be better choice? (I'm curious, since you ordered the 12-Core)
Nice work! I would appreciate, that when you do your tests of the M4 machines, that you would check to see how many processing-intensive plugins, like P455 MDN Sidecar (by Pulsar Modular), will operate on a stereo bus track (in say Pro Tools). This would see how much a single core of the processor can take.
Thank you very much for your comparisons, when you make the following comparison of daws on the new Mac mini M4 you could include the new Cubase 14 to see if Steinberg continues to take advantage of all the cores as in Cubase 13. Thanks a lot
Hi James when you do your test video please can you include a heavy duty sampler instrument (like VSL pianos, or what you have available), to check how it performs with big sample libraries and many voice counts? That’d be gold
When will you do the test video James? Really excited for it! I hope that Ableton soon figures out a way to use the e-cores too. So far I think M4 Pro 14c or Max 16c are the best choice, only M2 Ultra with a price drop can beat that in a Mac Mini/Studio setup
I'm picking up the MBP on Nov 8 (according to my order status) so expect the video to be up before the end of November! I will try to get it out ASAP but doing these tests accurately and making a video for it is very time-consuming.
I was waiting your video! And now I’m looking forward to watching your tests on these new chips. As a Pro Tools user that is happy knowing that this DAW now does take advantage of the efficiency cores, I must say that these new chips and computers look really promising. Now, the new Mini blurs the line between it and a Mac Studio/Pro. It’s an incredible value for the cost. As far as the actual MacBook, I’d upgrade to the M4 Max if money was no object. Now, I don’t really need to upgrade so that stays as is for now.
Hi James! Great video. I was using a 2018 Macbook pro I9 32gb ram 1tb storage. Was using a docking station and 2 hdmi monitors to it. This setup fried my logic board the 2nd time now because I left it all plugged in overnight (which never happened before). The m4 mac mini looks like a good bargain and something I'd be keen to get. I use logic pro and have the likes of musio, eastwest composer cloud, native instruments, and do some basic video editing and teach online. Will this mac mini work for me?
Perhaps I can answer this for you. I have a mac mini with the m2 pro chip and 16 gigs of ram. I use fl studio and so far (in my limited experience) it handles everything without any hickups. There is one particular pad preset (cream of emotion) in omnisphere 2, where it would choke an older i5 pc I had. The mac mini can handle this preset on max voices, and pressing down multiple keys at once whereas the pc couldnt even handle even one key. I dont know if this is a viable reference. However I am pretty sure that whatever m4 machine you get, it will be more than enough for your needs.
@sivur Thanks for sharing your experience with the M2 Pro. I was leaning towards the M4 Pro & up the RAM to 48 GB & 1 TB drive b.c I'll also do video editing with Davinci Resolve. But maybe I can still go with the M4 version 🤔
@ I think that in the upcoming weeks benchmark videos for your specific use case will be available and thus you will be in a better position to decide which configuration is right for you. Best of luck to you and I hope the mac mini will serve you well!
I’m curious how much these new chips this will improve latency in Logic Pro compared to my M1 Mac Mini. It would be great to record soft synths while other soft synth tracks play, without having to bounce to audio all the time.
Memory bandwidth SSD speed will make a difference and amount of ram and daw optimization of p and e cores. I would like to see how older Intel macs work but they are no longer optimized for Mac osx but great under windows
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, I don't see how memory bandwidth and SSD speed will matter in the case of audio processing. Memory bandwidth is about how fast the CPU can access the RAM, and audio processing happens on the CPU. Audio mixing doesn't really need fast SSDs either (unless we are talking about a huge session with 192kHz audio, but that's an extreme use case). You can mix a huge project with just 7200RPM HDD. This is why I don't believe memory bandwidth and SSD speed are something you need to worry about if you are buying a Mac for music production. They are more than fast enough for this use case.
This is a great video, thank you! I just discovered on the Apple Store that all the M4 12-core or 14-core models cannot be upgraded from 24GB RAM to 32GB RAM; you can only upgrade to 48GB RAM. Does anyone know why?
Great video! Do you have any thoughts about the future of file sizes regarding hard drive capacity? Do you see music apps and plugins making the 512gb ssd too small any time soon?
I enjoy the way you present your videos. Always sensible, "here is the information". It is curious how some content creators seem incapable of just getting to the point. They digress, try to include "Entertainment". (which is usually insipid drivel) You... have it dialed in and are appreciated.
It all depends on who many sample libraries you use in your projects, as those are what will use RAM. But generally speaking 24GB should be abundant for music production.
Thanks for this video 🙏🏽 Would love to know, how much the m4 mac mini can be pushed. Pls make a video on the m4 mac mini 256gb 16gb base variant and let us know its capability in a logic pro session. Thanks again 💖
Awesome video as always.. I want to upgrade from a rMBP 2014.. I'm really curious weather is better to choose M4 or M4 Pro, or if 24gb of RAM are sufficient for audio works.
@@cormonauta1993 24GB of ram is generally very sufficient unless you plan to use a lot of sample libraries in your projects :) Since you are upgrade from a 2014 MBP, even an M1 Pro would be an insane upgrade
Question: Do you know when the M4 Ultra chips will be available? I assume they will be included in the next version of the Mac Studio, which is my main interest. I just picked up a fully equipped M2 Mac Studio, and I love it. However, if the new model is coming out soon, I would be very interested in trading this one in for the new version and paying a little extra.
ik this maybe a difficult question, do you think a M4 mini (16gb ram) will perform better as my “old” Windows pc i9 10900k / 24gb ram. I use FL studio but i can change daw tbh. 699 is such a good deal i suppose and im tempted lol
Thanks James I have been looking at the new M4s for use with NI Komplete 15 and Ableton 12 - I have a Push 3 so Ableton is my go to DAW. Does Ableton 12 utilise the full features out of the efficiency cores?
Can you pls cover what this new bandwidth will mean for music? Also, this inclusion of Bluetooth 5 - what it means for external drives and Sampling. Thanks
Thank you for your videos. Currently running 2018 intel i7 Mac mini and Right now I’m struggling between a studio M2 Max vs Mac mini m4 pro 64g. Using logic and mostly Native instruments plugins and vst. Any suggestions?
I am torn between the 12c m4 pro with 1tb storage and the 14c m4 pro with 512gb storage. Both are close to my budget limit after tax. Anyways, I am waiting for your test before making any purchase !
Bought an M3Pro (14c, 36Gb RAM) earlier this year; while I knew new one's where coming around this time, and the M4 would be worth the wait; I needed the laptop back then... So curious about the comparison! But my M3 is doing just fine for now (Nuendo user)
You made the right choice. There's always the next gen chip coming. We could be getting M5 in Q1 2025? Who knows. The bottom line is that these Apple Silicon Macs are all incredible. I'm still using my M1 Max machine as my daily driver. The fact that new gen chips came out doesn't mean the previous gen chips stop being powerful chips!
@@JamesZhan Thank you James. A little like Brian Tong often says, these Apple silicon Macs are so good… Although I watch & appreciate your videos, I thought for the music work I’m doing a present the M3 will be more than enough. Also I have a great deal with Sky where I pay monthly & after 3 years can upgrade! I do look forward to your test results though with the M4 Pro. Thanks again James.
My M4 Pro MacBook Pro Testing video is here! Watch it ➡th-cam.com/video/hccy19Hm6M8/w-d-xo.html
ℹCORRECTIONS: The 16-core M4 Max is actually also available on the 14-inch MBP. The iMac screen size is 24”, not 27”. Sorry for the mistakes!
➡ My $12,000 Music/Video Production Setup, Powered by M1 Max: th-cam.com/video/cA3ms_2Yn-A/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the video. Usually, people just comment on the numbers without any solid evidence and are simply amazed at how everything is “better,” “stronger,” “more powerful,” and more efficient. But no one actually comments on what it’s like to edit on an M1 Ultra versus an M4 Max (for example) or to work as an audio producer in practice. That doesn’t seem to interest anyone on mainstream internet, even though it’s one of the essentials. That’s why I’m grateful for the video!
Glad you liked the video! I think the technical stats still matter for many use cases, because the newer chips usually gain improved neural engine, media engine, GPU etc. Often times, for stuff like video editing, the newest chip is the better one. It's just that for audio processing, it doesn't really take advantage of components (for now), and because some DAWs can't fully max out the efficiency cores, choosing the right Apple Silicon chips is a bit more complicated for Mac users in the music industry-it's why I started testing Macs specifically for music production to begin with!
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@@JamesZhan
How can i check how many performance cores are being used? I am on m1max mbp 64gb ram 2tb. I am using Mainstage as my 'instrument' and sometines it has hickups. I using many heavy plugins ,though .
@@mygoogle1525
Hi, according to apple
"To view current processor activity, choose Window > CPU Usage. To view recent processor activity, choose Window > CPU History. To display more columns, choose View > Columns, then choose the columns you want to show."
@@JamesZhan Out of curiosity, does anything in the audio workflow get GPU compute accelerated?
Exactly what I needed. I discovered your channel yesterday, searching for info on how much computing power is needed for music production. Learning about the efficiency vs performance core distribution was super helpful. Looking forward to your test results.
Welcome to the channel 😁 Glad you found my videos informative!
SAME REASON :D
Jeez this guy is amazing, the way he explains, the editing, the way he handles the arrangement of his explanation is just amazing, I love watching his videos! This is definitely the best TH-cam Channel for music producers who need extra information about upgrading their computers (Apple of course). Thanks for this great comment.
Wow, thanks so much for your kind words! I try to put out really polished educational video-probably spend way too much time workshopping the scripts and tweaking the details, but I'm glad someone appreciates it, haha!
@@JamesZhan it is absolutely brilliant, even the way you speak helps so much specially for people who english aren't their first language (Like me [I'm Mexican haha]) so thanks for the content and keep it up!
Can't wait for your M4 test video!
Same, awaiting the test before my order. Planing on upgrading from Macbook Pro 2015.
@@ThornbladeGame Hahah!! we're in the same boat..sort of. My Mid 2012 died on me last month so I am eagerly awaiting this test before my order. Trying to decide 12 core or 14 core but I am surprised James is testing the 12 as he already did the 12 core M3Pro last year. Thought he would have gone 14 core this time.
Regarding the iMac, you mentioned at 3:43 that the 27" display is the best in the price range. The iMac still has a 24" display, with no 27" variant.
Bought a M1 Max MacBook Pro with 64 gb ram based on your video. This was during the M3 era. I use Studio One. I would have made a huge price to performance mistake if it weren’t for you. No joke. You have done real work in my financial/frustration life.
I don’t throw around the word hero often but today I have little reservation.
Hero.
Edit: even though I’m happy with my machine, thanks to you, and won’t be migrating to a machine anytime soon; I will continue to follow your new findings. Good content, sir
You are too kind! Glad my video helped. Apple Silicon Macs are all super great machines for music production in general and I feel like most people can easily stay on the same machine for 5-7 years. I'm still rocking my M1 Max as my daily driver
@@JamesZhan I was rocking a late 2012 trashcan with with a 12 core and 32gb up until a year and change ago. No more OS updates = software drivers leaving you behind.
You were 100% my means of migration to new machine.
Thanks for the deep reviews 🙏. Would be interesting to see a comparison M1pro to M4pro
I wonder if the next generation of the base Mac Studio will compete with the Mac Mini M4 Pro. With this generation, a spec’d-out Mini ended up costing more, and if I remember correctly, the base Mac Studio offered similar or even better performance at a lower cost.
Hope to see your Ableton tests , 24GB ram or 48gb ram? Should I get 12 or 14 core pro chip?
I went with 48gb and 12 cores. Need more ram than cores performance. Also over time ram returns you more.
@@ernestofdez5635i purchased 14 core 24 gb. M4 pro is 4.38ghz. if you buy 48gb and 14 core its ok , i think performance is more important for any daw.
I really hope you will do M1 Ultra vs M4 Max. I am really curious :) Thanks!
The M4 Max will probably perform even better than the M2 Ultra in the Mac Studio and the Mac Pro (the 16-core CPU and 40-core GPU version)
@@akselkaru9237 Lets hope its all worth it!
Absolutely great job! Thanks for you to focus on the macbook pro music production. Can't wait to watch your m4 pro macbook pro test!
Amazing info and super helpful as always! I hope you don't forget FL Studio on all your tests.
Excited for the testing video!!! Thanks for all the work you do!!!
Based on your previous video comparing M1, M2, and M3 chips for DAWs, I just bought an MacBook M2 Pro (refurbished). The day after I got it, the M4s came out. I'm returning it and ordered the same MacBook you show in your video here. Thanks for the helpful research.
ill be moving from a mac mini to a m4 pro now, i've been using an m2 air for production portability and imo it just beats sitting at a desk all day
Watching you helped me choose my M2 Max 14in so Im hoping you can show me whether M4 is gonna be a step forward for audio or an odd step back like last year
👏🏻🔥❤️ Dude you’re a Mac gem 💎 Cant wait for your performance breakdown. This precursor on the new line is great too of course and sets the stage. Thanks for letting us all know about the disconnect with DAWs and efficiency cores
I appreciate your kind words! 🙏 And thanks for being a subscriber for 11 months!!
Thanks for the core breakdown. This matters.
Been waiting for this. James, you have the best comparison video for music production use, keep it going!
Thanks for the kind words! I don’t know about being the best but I try, haha
thanks for diving in on this... I have an M1 Max 16" ... the features seem cool to update.. nano texture, thunderbolt 5, better webcam, more brightness... but i think i may wait till the m5 where the max end gets more of a jump. although i would love to see an M1 max vs M4 max comparison... hahah! that is what has me on the fence right now of debating an upgrade
Same boat here. I have the maxed out M1 Max. (10C/32) 2TB/64, extremely tempted to upgrade to M4 Max! Wifi 7 and OLED are the ones missing that’s holding me back
@@RephaelMendoza literally! I got M1 Max 2TB /32, pretty much the same as yours just half the RAM! LOL!! YES! TBH.. was pretty disappointed when I heard Wifi 7 and OLED weren't in there... YET. if I read correctly the iPhone 16's do? but the MBP's don't? I think it'll be worth waiting for Wifi 7 and OLED.. + waiting longer we can hopefully get a more bigger speed bump... so it'll make it seem "worth" the upgrade... so far I tell myself "do I really want to spend 4k (3k with trading the M1 Max in)" just for the $150 nano texture?? ...
do let me know if you upgrade though or find something worth upgrading! so far running down the specs I just can't convince myself with not enough of a performance upgrade
@@adrielbthe iPhone 16 Pros have Wifi 7, yes! Also getting them this month, I was about to upgrade all my devices to Wifi 7 with a Wifi 7 router from TP-Link, sucks to see that this new Macbook Pro is stuck in 6E. I may have to stay with the regular screen as the nano texture might affect a little with its color accuracy/reproduction and a little hit on the brightness. Looking at the Geekbench 6 scores on the M4 Max, it is extremely close with the i9 14900K (4060 vs 4200-4400 on the i9), that’s super impressive tbh. I’ll let you know if ever I change my mind and get this! The config that I want is the 16/40 4TB/128 :)
Guys, honestly, apart from wanting the newer thing there cannot be any use case where any of you benefit relevantly from the performance differential. Save your money.
@@RephaelMendoza we'll have to wait and see someone's comparison of the normal pro screen vs the nano texture. thats impressive for the m4 max! do share back when you get time to let us know how you like it and how the config went
Looking at getting a new mini before the end of the year. Is the M2 pro mini still a good choice or is it worth getting a M4?
I've been playing with the config $ of a M4 Pro Mini vs the M2 Max Studio. Similar but not that much cheaper though. Will be curious of comparison test results.
I’m in the same boat. The struggle is real
FINALLY some specs I can get behind! My late 2013 MBP hasn't been able to handle the full extent of my ideas for a solid 3 years. Been waiting and waiting for Apple silicon that'll meet my requirements for live AV performance. Cheers James! Looking forward to watching your full review
Thank you for classifying Apple products for use in music production. Since I want to switch from a PC to a Mac soon, I would be happy if the Digital Performer 11 was included in the review.
Thanks for introduction ! I’d like to know if upgrading the MacBook Pro from a 12-core CPU to a 14-core CPU is worthwhile for music production?
Pro tools just updated this year so they also use efficiency cores now. So check out if your daw maybe also changed that
I wouldn't say my recordings were terribly complex, but I never came close to hitting the limits of my 2010 Mac Pro. I just picked up an M2 Pro Mac Mini that benchmarks roughly 5x higher than said 2010 cMP. Even the base M1 was an absolute beast. Apple Silicon is a music production powerhouse across the board.
I have an "old" 2014 macbook pro i7 2.5ghz seems to run all the same music software as my m2 macbook air fine. We're just being spoiled at this point, apart from the memory and ssd storage not catching up with the cpu speeds on macs
This is kind of my message from my very first Apple silicon Mac review video: we need to view Macs with Apple Silicon chips completely differently than the Intel ones. Most people can probably make do with an M-series Mac that's less spec'ed out than they think they need.
@@JamesZhan Agreed. The only reasong I didn't end up getting a base model M4 Mini is 1) I didn't want to way because 2) I got a good deal on my beefy M2 Pro Mini that still has USB-A ports. Especially now that the base RAM is 16GB, none of them are "weak" by any stretch.
As a user of the base model m1 air, I HAVE TO get an M4 Pro Mac Mini! It seems like a great deal.
I got M1 Max with 32 gb ram and 1 tb ssd and it’s an absolute beast
Thanks a lot James - looking forward to your music production benchmarking/tests
Hi James!! TRULY LOVE your videos.
I am a keyboard player.
I typically used my (old 2012 Intel) MBP for backing tracks in Logic and Mainstage while playing along via VST synths/organ.
Time to upgrade as my board finally died.
Do you think the new M4Pro 14 Core (10 P 4E) will be ok?? Also, will the standard 24GB Ram be efficient or do you recommend upgrading to 48GB??
I guess I can always buy and test it and exchange if need be, I was just curious on your thoughts.
I am surprised though that you are testing the 12 core as you already tested the 12 core M3pro last year. Thought you would have tested the 14core this time around....oh well, still excited to hear your findings.
Many many thanks!
Darrin
hurry and test James! i need to know which m4 mini i should buy for logic. peashhh
Jumping from a 2016 i7 MBP to a M4 Pro MBP! So stoked to see the difference
strap in!
O you will be mind blown
great timing James! I'm ready to place my order on a Mac Mini. Was planning a M4Pro upgraded with the CPU 14‑core, GPU 20‑core and 48 Gb of Ram, but I'm wondering if the higher price will really be worth it. I'm using Reaper with lots of processing plugins and audio tracks, basically no vst instruments, sampling libraries or virtual instruments.
If you are using no sample libraries and are purely doing mixing, there's no need for 48GB of RAM. Audio processing will use very little RAM. Either the 12-core or the 14-core M4 should do, but you can allocate some of your budget towards getting more SSD.
Soon as I saw the MKBHD M4 Mac Mini video I hoped you made a video about it.
Thank you.
If I end up getting this Mac Mini, i might just stick with 16gb or maybe 24GB. The orchestral music I do is mostly 15-25 tracks on average, and I've seen how well the 16GB on the previous Mini performs with 3x the amount of tracks being used.
This is useful information for all prospective Mac buyers, but not specific to audio production.
The headline feature for audio production is an increase in single thread performance, which means that in most DAWs you’ll be able to live track with more plugins on a single channel strip - more performance cores will let you do it on more tracks simultaneously. It won’t decrease round-trip latency, since that is up to the audio driver, conversion, and the processing latency of the plugins used. No CPU speed advances can decrease RTL… it can just give more processing headroom to reduce the likelihood of CPU overloads.
TL;DR - like-for like, anyone with an M-series chip in their Mac is not going to experience an immediately noticeable increase in performance. But if they upgrade to a different class of chip (Pro, Max) with a higher performance core count, and they are working with track counts in the hundreds, they will see a more immediate difference.
Exactly, you make a lot of great points. I don’t know why people are praising the op if this video while he has not even given us real data in music production
How is the 24GB of RAM in the M4 Pro for music production? I’m planning to the the Mac mini m4Pro and need to know if I should spend the money to upgrade the RAM.
Hey man, I preordered the mini M4 Pro with the upgraded with the upgraded 16-core CPU/ 20-core GPU, 1 gig SSD but only 28 gigs of ram. Do you think getting the standard M4 10-core CPU/GPU but maxed out 32 gigs of Ram and 2 gig SSD would be better for music production? I still have time to make the switch…
I would suggest 32 gigs of ram and 1tb ssd if you have an external ssd drive. 🎹💙
I have an M2 Ultra Mac Studio that’s seemed to work well since I got it. Lately when I use an intensive midi instrument like Arcade or Cycles it makes one core jump all the way up and I hear crackles… it’s with only that one plugin loaded.. my machine is a 128gb ram machine and has 24core CPU…
Seriously waiting for that M4 MacBook Pro video! I’ve been holding out on upgrading to an Apple Silicon MacBook for quite a while-still on Intel. I’m personally leaning toward the 14-inch MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip, although the base M4 chip also looks good. The only thing I find weird is the memory configurations, like 24GB and 36GB instead of 32GB. I’d much prefer it if the options were simply 16GB, 32GB, 64GB, and 128GB… at least that feels 'normal' for a computer.
Should there be a comparison between an upgraded M4 Pro Mac Mini and the base model of the current Mac Studio? I can’t see the advantage of the Mini against the entry level Studio.
This is really helpful! I;m thinking of getting the M4 mini for music production and light general use. Would I be better off putting my money into more ram and just getting the 256gb ssd, or would it be better to get the 512gb ssd and less ram? Is the ram more important than the ssd? You’ve mentioned in other comments about amount of samples used determines ram needed, but how much is “too many samples” thank you.
Please include Digital Performer in your Daw testing.
A man of good taste, I see.
Thanks James! You are clearly the gold standard for evaluation of music production Macs. It looks like the era of skimping on performance course is over. I was just thinking about getting a used M1 laptop and I think I will still go that way, but for the future it’s really nice to know that these will be on the refurbished market two or three years from now.
“Gold standard” is definitely an exaggeration, but I appreciate the kind words! The refurbished market is a gold mine for people on a budget or who just want to get the most bang out of their buck
@ definitely appreciating you, James!! by gold standard, I meant in comparison to the others out there who try to do something similar with their reviews. Your information is consistently more useful to me.
The video I was waiting for! Would love to see a comparison of your M4 Pro with M4 Max using Logic. Thank you :)
I love your videos and i am very excited for your DAW tests with the new M4 Macs 😊
Really looking forward to your test results. I have an M1 Max MacBook Pro that has served me very well but have an itch to upgrade ... but there would need to be a pretty compelling reason. Thanks for your work in this area.
I also use an M1 Max Mac as my daily driver and it's insane how well it holds up after 3 years. M4 chips are looking great but I still doubt it will make it truly switch haha. I guess I will see!
Useful info. Thanks. Hopefully if you do the test you can give some attention to single core performance. That is usually the bottleneck in projects with heavy plugins on the master bus. Looking forward to the results.
Might do this in a separate video!
I'm strongly considering upgrading to an M4 Max from my M1 Max just for the Thunderbolt 5 option which will allow me to daisy chain 2x more Thunderbolt devices than Thunderbolt 4 which could cut down on cables. Also 12 P-cores would be a nice upgrade from 8 in the M1 Max. But I'm going to wait for reviews to come out and see if it is a substantial gain since M2 & M3 were not enough for me to justify upgrading. Great break down as always!
I will be spec'ing up my purchase, should I get M4 MacBook Pro or just wait for Macbook Studio for music production?
Always a treat to get one of those videos from you! Thank you!
The new Mac Mini is probably the best cost-benefit ratio release since the M1 air.
I am a bit annoyed that I bought the M3 Air 16/512 in September, now all the releases are 16gb ram and no additional costs... But who could have known :|
At least i got my M3 Air for a pretty good edu deal, but it is still unfortunate and I would have waited 100% if I knew that.
Looking forward to your tests with the M4 Pro!
Aw that's sweet of you to say! Crazy to think people consider my videos “a treat,” haha.
I understand the feeling of missing out, but remember, new tech is always around the corner nowadays, and you still got a great machine. I hope your MBA has been treating you well!
I cant see how the new Mac Studios would be so much different in performance to the new Mac Mini's. Do you think it would be worth waiting for a new Mac Studio or just jump in with the new Mac Mini for Music production? (Cubase)
Please consider Bitwig in your comparison!!!
Do you think that the 14-Core M4 Pro would perform better in Ableton Live since it has 10 performance cores vs. the 8 in the 12-Core? If cost wasn't a factor, would that be better choice? (I'm curious, since you ordered the 12-Core)
Glad they are moving toward more Performance cores. I just bought a 12 core M2 Pro 14 in 1tb 16gbram
Nice work! I would appreciate, that when you do your tests of the M4 machines, that you would check to see how many processing-intensive plugins, like P455 MDN Sidecar (by Pulsar Modular), will operate on a stereo bus track (in say Pro Tools). This would see how much a single core of the processor can take.
Thank you very much for your comparisons, when you make the following comparison of daws on the new Mac mini M4 you could include the new Cubase 14 to see if Steinberg continues to take advantage of all the cores as in Cubase 13. Thanks a lot
Sure thing!
Love the visuals! So easy to see where your money goes in terms of CPU cores
Yeah I specifically created the motion graphics to more easily visualize the CPU core distribution in different chips!
hey! are you going to do a video on the base model mac mini for music production?
Hi James when you do your test video please can you include a heavy duty sampler instrument (like VSL pianos, or what you have available), to check how it performs with big sample libraries and many voice counts? That’d be gold
Thanks for this suggestion! I will probably do this in a separate video (first one will be testing core utilization), so keep an eye out for that!
Will you be testing the m4 Pro 24G unified?
The best video for real time usage!!! Thank you!!
When will you do the test video James? Really excited for it! I hope that Ableton soon figures out a way to use the e-cores too. So far I think M4 Pro 14c or Max 16c are the best choice, only M2 Ultra with a price drop can beat that in a Mac Mini/Studio setup
I'm picking up the MBP on Nov 8 (according to my order status) so expect the video to be up before the end of November! I will try to get it out ASAP but doing these tests accurately and making a video for it is very time-consuming.
I was waiting your video!
And now I’m looking forward to watching your tests on these new chips.
As a Pro Tools user that is happy knowing that this DAW now does take advantage of the efficiency cores, I must say that these new chips and computers look really promising.
Now, the new Mini blurs the line between it and a Mac Studio/Pro.
It’s an incredible value for the cost.
As far as the actual MacBook, I’d upgrade to the M4 Max if money was no object.
Now, I don’t really need to upgrade so that stays as is for now.
Hi James! Great video. I was using a 2018 Macbook pro I9 32gb ram 1tb storage. Was using a docking station and 2 hdmi monitors to it. This setup fried my logic board the 2nd time now because I left it all plugged in overnight (which never happened before). The m4 mac mini looks like a good bargain and something I'd be keen to get. I use logic pro and have the likes of musio, eastwest composer cloud, native instruments, and do some basic video editing and teach online. Will this mac mini work for me?
Looking fwd to the Mac Mini breakdown for music production. Which CPU and RAM should we go for?
Perhaps I can answer this for you. I have a mac mini with the m2 pro chip and 16 gigs of ram. I use fl studio and so far (in my limited experience) it handles everything without any hickups. There is one particular pad preset (cream of emotion) in omnisphere 2, where it would choke an older i5 pc I had. The mac mini can handle this preset on max voices, and pressing down multiple keys at once whereas the pc couldnt even handle even one key. I dont know if this is a viable reference. However I am pretty sure that whatever m4 machine you get, it will be more than enough for your needs.
@sivur Thanks for sharing your experience with the M2 Pro. I was leaning towards the M4 Pro & up the RAM to 48 GB & 1 TB drive b.c I'll also do video editing with Davinci Resolve. But maybe I can still go with the M4 version 🤔
@ I think that in the upcoming weeks benchmark videos for your specific use case will be available and thus you will be in a better position to decide which configuration is right for you. Best of luck to you and I hope the mac mini will serve you well!
@sivur thanks 😊 👍🏻
I’m curious how much these new chips this will improve latency in Logic Pro compared to my M1 Mac Mini. It would be great to record soft synths while other soft synth tracks play, without having to bounce to audio all the time.
Memory bandwidth SSD speed will make a difference and amount of ram and daw optimization of p and e cores.
I would like to see how older Intel macs work but they are no longer optimized for Mac osx but great under windows
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, I don't see how memory bandwidth and SSD speed will matter in the case of audio processing.
Memory bandwidth is about how fast the CPU can access the RAM, and audio processing happens on the CPU. Audio mixing doesn't really need fast SSDs either (unless we are talking about a huge session with 192kHz audio, but that's an extreme use case). You can mix a huge project with just 7200RPM HDD.
This is why I don't believe memory bandwidth and SSD speed are something you need to worry about if you are buying a Mac for music production. They are more than fast enough for this use case.
thanks a lot...nice work ...will be great to see some measurements with Cubase + M4 chips
What a great practical explanation (and visuals to boot!). TY
Glad you like it!
This is a great video, thank you! I just discovered on the Apple Store that all the M4 12-core or 14-core models cannot be upgraded from 24GB RAM to 32GB RAM; you can only upgrade to 48GB RAM. Does anyone know why?
My m2 pro mini has 12 core cpu with 8 performance cores
Great video! Do you have any thoughts about the future of file sizes regarding hard drive capacity? Do you see music apps and plugins making the 512gb ssd too small any time soon?
Looking forward to your full review!
Coming soon!
Waiting for this 🥰 thank you james
I enjoy the way you present your videos. Always sensible, "here is the information". It is curious how some content creators seem incapable of just getting to the point. They digress, try to include "Entertainment". (which is usually insipid drivel) You... have it dialed in and are appreciated.
when will you upload the video of macbook pro m4 mate ? really need your review
Nice quality videos! Straight to the point and always interesting. Well done
I'm currently thinking of getting the Mac Mini M4Pro 12-Core CPU, 16-Core GPU with 24GB of ram. Do you think 24GB is too low for music production?
It all depends on who many sample libraries you use in your projects, as those are what will use RAM. But generally speaking 24GB should be abundant for music production.
Ive had a m4 MacBook pro for years and ive hit zero limits on my daw. 💁♂️
Thank you! Very interested in M4 Pro results 👍
Thanks for this video 🙏🏽
Would love to know, how much the m4 mac mini can be pushed. Pls make a video on the m4 mac mini 256gb 16gb base variant and let us know its capability in a logic pro session. Thanks again 💖
I will be testing the base M4 Mac mini in the upcoming months!
@@JamesZhan cool. Waiting 🎶✨
You can order a M3 Max 16 core for the same price you get a M4 pro now. Any guesses which one is better for big sessions in Nuendo/cubase?
Awesome video as always..
I want to upgrade from a rMBP 2014..
I'm really curious weather is better to choose M4 or M4 Pro, or if 24gb of RAM are sufficient for audio works.
@@cormonauta1993 24GB of ram is generally very sufficient unless you plan to use a lot of sample libraries in your projects :) Since you are upgrade from a 2014 MBP, even an M1 Pro would be an insane upgrade
@@JamesZhanThank you! So 24 gigs will be sufficient even with Apple intelligence
What about comparing the M4 Mac mini’s memory bandwidth against the M2 Mac mini’s? Is that a consideration?
Question: Do you know when the M4 Ultra chips will be available? I assume they will be included in the next version of the Mac Studio, which is my main interest. I just picked up a fully equipped M2 Mac Studio, and I love it. However, if the new model is coming out soon, I would be very interested in trading this one in for the new version and paying a little extra.
Hey James do you reckon 24gB of ram is enough for music production and light video editing?
ik this maybe a difficult question, do you think a M4 mini (16gb ram) will perform better as my “old” Windows pc i9 10900k / 24gb ram. I use FL studio but i can change daw tbh.
699 is such a good deal i suppose and im tempted lol
I see a new James Zhan reaction to Apple M4, I opened the video and hit the LIKE button right away. Thank you James, you're a class act!
Man you are the MVP! I hope the video was worth your like after you watched it, haha!
@@JamesZhan Top notch as always! You are the KING of macbook DAW reviews!
Grande James! Trabajazoo
Thanks James I have been looking at the new M4s for use with NI Komplete 15 and Ableton 12 - I have a Push 3 so Ableton is my go to DAW. Does Ableton 12 utilise the full features out of the efficiency cores?
Can you pls cover what this new bandwidth will mean for music?
Also, this inclusion of Bluetooth 5 - what it means for external drives and Sampling.
Thanks
Mac mini works good with FL Studio..??
Thank you for your videos. Currently running 2018 intel i7 Mac mini and Right now I’m struggling between a studio M2 Max vs Mac mini m4 pro 64g. Using logic and mostly Native instruments plugins and vst. Any suggestions?
Stellar! Absolutely well done 👍
The 16" macbook pro M4 pro has a 14-core CPU with 10 performance cores. will you be adding these ones in the test also?
I am torn between the 12c m4 pro with 1tb storage and the 14c m4 pro with 512gb storage.
Both are close to my budget limit after tax.
Anyways, I am waiting for your test before making any purchase !
Bought an M3Pro (14c, 36Gb RAM) earlier this year; while I knew new one's where coming around this time, and the M4 would be worth the wait; I needed the laptop back then... So curious about the comparison! But my M3 is doing just fine for now (Nuendo user)
I was the same, but so far enjoying the M3 Pro. 🙂
You made the right choice. There's always the next gen chip coming. We could be getting M5 in Q1 2025? Who knows. The bottom line is that these Apple Silicon Macs are all incredible. I'm still using my M1 Max machine as my daily driver. The fact that new gen chips came out doesn't mean the previous gen chips stop being powerful chips!
@@JamesZhan Thank you James. A little like Brian Tong often says, these Apple silicon Macs are so good… Although I watch & appreciate your videos, I thought for the music work I’m doing a present the M3 will be more than enough. Also I have a great deal with Sky where I pay monthly & after 3 years can upgrade!
I do look forward to your test results though with the M4 Pro.
Thanks again James.
There’s no m3 pro with 14 c just m3 max
@@HarunoGasai ah yes excuse me, the 12core. I got confused