Honestly, I'm not sure how useful are these results. Test 1 - audio recording of 100+ guitars. Test 2 - 100 tracks with the same synth, Test 3 - process audo files only. Many people would not use audio tracks, or maybe just one. If you add acoustic drums VST, Bass Guitar VST, Piano VST (e.g., Keyscape), Saxophone VST, few more sample based instruments you will run out of 16GB RAM before you max out the CPU.
You're genuinely the only TH-camr that I listen to with regards to Macs and music production. You know your stuff, do proper testing, providing reasoning behind multiple scenarios, and directly address the main worries that most of us as producers have. This to me is why I trust your input over 'Tech TH-camrs' who've never done anything proper in any of the DAWs. Thank you again for another great deep dive into this subject!
Thanks for your kind words! The music production use case is much less well tested for Macs I think because it doesn't push many aspects of the computer. What I mean is that, while video editing heavily involves not only the CPU and the GPU, but also the media engines in the chip, music production is mostly just about the CPU and RAM (not even the RAM if not much sample libraries are used). This means that testing DAWs don't really give you a sense of how powerful a computer is *as a whole.* However, this is exactly why I started testing Apple Silicon Macs for music production in the first place-the tests that big tech TH-camrs do on Macs don't always apply for music production use cases.
I got the M4 Pro mini, I use Logic, and there is nothing I can do to make it struggle. It is kind of crazy when you consider that it has taken decades to finally reach the point where computers can handle the needs of audio production as intended. But I think we’re there. No more freezing tracks, no more worrying about plugin count. No more hassle. You just use it.
I agree absolutely! I spoke to an Apple Logic 'expert' a few years back, when the M3 came out, and you'd think I'd insulted his entire family, lol! How dare I question Apple engineers 'logic' (scuze the pun!) as to why it can't use all the cores in their own DAW. Whats that damn BIG secret FFS???!
@@srinivasc1720 They ain't making the big bucks from Logic, though. They're making them from Macs. Logic was really just there over the past 15-20 years of Intel macs to provide yet another reason not to switch to Windows. Now, you just get the objectively better hardware by buying a Mac, so there's less reason to invest to make Logic compelling. (PS: anyone would ever seriously switch *to* Pro Tools these days? :D :D )
I’ve been on the fence about M4 vs. M4 Pro, actually waiting for this video - Thanks James! Currently using Cubase 14 Elements. My projects are not all too complex at the moment; up to about 24 audio or VST tracks. I’m temporarily on an M2 MacBook Air. I noticed that while Cubase certainly does use all the cores for playback and audio processing, project exports uses only the performance cores. Partially to anticipate growing into more complex projects, I’ve decided to go with an M4 Pro Mac Mini w/ 24GB/1TB. In addition to the higher P-core count, I would imagine that Thunderbolt 5 products will become more commonplace over time. James, really appreciate the work you do on your channel!
Thunderbolt 5 will no doubt be a big feature in the future. But.... by the time TB5 becomes the norm, and affordable, your m4 mac mini will be outdated and look like an expensive option. A cheaper alternative would be to get the base model now, use it for 2 or 3 years, sell it for 60% of its original cost then buy the m6 mac mini pro which will be way more powerful than the m4 pro and way cheaper.
Thanks for your high-quality videos! I'd really like to see some tests/reviews on RAM and SSDs for music production. I recently got the 12-core M4 Pro MacBook Pro with 24GB of RAM, and I tried downloading and playing a professional's orchestral Logic Pro project. With all the samples loaded, it needed 35GB of memory, so it took 13GB of swap space on the SSD. While it still played fine, I would think anyone using a whole orchestra of virtual instruments would want the 48GB of RAM (at least).
👍 before press play cause you’re doing a great job! I got the M4 base model the day it came out. For my projects I was fine with my M1 but I wanted 16GB of ram. Now I press play… cheers!
Great Video ! 1 little mistake in your chart at 6:54 where you have the m4 at 60 tracks for S1 but it looks more like Ableton´s 48 tracks. Many thanks for putting the time into clearing this stuuf up!
A cool scenario to test would be: export time (same number of tracks, same plugins on each tracks), across the different DAWs, to compare how they render things.
Thanks, this was exactly what I wanted to know. It's great that you were able to cut through all of the hype to actually offer music makers important information and allow us to make informed decisions.
Great video. I use Ableton and Pro Tools, and just upgraded to a 14 core M4 pro laptop with 24gb memory. It was time to retire my 4 core i7 from late 2013! Very happy with the decision to get the 14 core Pro chip
@@mitchmcturtle6890I went with the stock 14” 14 core M4 pro with 24gb of memory 1tb. I have an external 4K 27” display as well. I didn’t want to go crazy with memory as these machines use memory differently to older intel chips. My Mac Pro has 96gb. We will see if there’s regrets there with stock memory in a few years time. I don’t think it will be an issue.
@ if you’re going M4 pro I would get the 14 core. The 12 core has a smaller charger and if you upgrade anything memory wise, you’ll be at the same price as the 14 core. I think the stock 14 core is good value.
Great video, Jan! M4 all the way! However the bottleneck of audio production is 1 core performance. Let's say we want to use mastering plugin on master bus. So our master bus will use just 1 core. And if that core clock is low then we can't use many "heavy plugins" like Ozone, Bloom, Intensity, etc. These plugins are not needed for beginners or arrangers (these guys can use just limiter on the master bus) but for serious producers or mastering engineers it is essential.
That's what the mixing into a mastering chain test is for! I put heavy plugins on folder tracks and the master bus to factor in the single core performance.
Thank you so much for testing. I‘m new into music production and will be using Logic Pro and want to get the new Mac mini. Now I know that I will definitely get the pro chip. Now I can‘t wait for your testing of the RAM usage results. I‘m planning on getting the base version with 24 GB but I read on Reddit how someone recommended 1 GB per track which seems to be a little excessive to me.
It's a strange situation with Logic, but maybe Apple's reasoning is that limiting processing to P-cores can avoid any backgroud OS tasks causing CPU spiking on the E-cores, potentially interfering with audio loads, leading to a more reliable/less bursty processing audio load, reducing the risk of dropped frames (whilst having a lower baseline performance). As an audio software developer I'm still not sure how Logic is even able to limit processing to only P-cores - I didn't see that option in the API documentation. Also for consideration is RAM - if you are a composer using lots of heavy sample libraries, the M4 mini base configuration may not be ideal (but significantly better than the old 8GB base config on the M2 mini). If you happen to use plugins that you know use their own multi-threaded processing/thread pool (such as the ones I develop) you may still see good performance and usage of the E-Cores in Logic and Ableton even if they limit their main track processing threads to p-cores.
Thanks for chiming in with your technical knowledge! I consider myself a layperson and I have no knowledge in plugin development, so I just report empirical data and draw conclusions based on those. I have heard about the use of efficiency cores making the DAW less stable, but I have yet to experience that on REAPER or Cubase. The computer gets real laggy when all the cores are maxed out, but as long as the DAW isn't overloaded, the playback would always be smooth. RAM is definitely a consideration, but like you said, that's directly related to sample libraries usage, and this video is focused on audio processing only :)
@@JamesZhan Your videos a great - I just subscribed. Just maybe in a future test it might be good to also test with a synth plugin that leverages multi-core to see how that changes things. Another valid test is just single channel mastering of a final mix.. all plugins in one track and no other tracks/aux buses feeding in.. most effect plugins can only do single core processing - some DAWs will break the audio buffer requests even for a single track over several threads (even if they are sequential audio buffer requests) as it can spread CPU load but may not help much in this case with a single channel other than maybe in terms of load spreading for thermal management.
@@wavesequencer Thanks for the kind words! Do you know of any synth plugins by Native Instruments that leverage multiple cores? I don't use synths in general so I don't have many to begin with haha I did the single core test in my M2 MBA and M2 Pro MBP videos. I might bring that back again.
@@JamesZhan I don't know of many synth plugins that do multi-core (there are probably quite a few now though), other than my own (Hyperion/Theia) and Dawesome's recent synths such as Myth (both via Tracktion) - but another option is to use 'Unify' which lets you build up multiple layers of single core synth/sample playback plugins & effects and will leverage the multi-threading capabilities properly on Mac (using Audio workgroups). I can help you with NFRs for Hyperion or Unify - as I just took on development of Unify.
วันที่ผ่านมา +1
Man.. I read this comment and replies to try to learn something... I learned I don't know much about plugin development! LOL...
Angry Studio One shills/fanboys in 3, 2, 1... I've been eagerly awaiting this video. This series is incredibly helpful, you're truly doing amazing work here, mate! Thank you!
I tried to stay away from doing any direct comparison between DAWs this time, which is actually what I should have done last time because comparing DAWs isn't the point of my videos! Thanks for your support and I'm glad you like my videos!
Just got the 64 GB M4 Pro for film composing in Logic - The ram is all I care about, but excited for the rest! I am going from a 2013 iMac 😮😮 Gonna be wild!! 🎉🎉
I'm considering it! I already started working on these videos for these 7 DAWs a while back, so I will have to test the other DAWs later. FYI, I chose these 7 DAWs simply because they have the most search traffic/interest on TH-cam and Google according to stats from Google Trends.
On my M1 Pro-MacBookPro, LUNA uses all the Cores (8P cores & 2e cores). How its performance compares to other DAWs, I'll leave that to James as he has a testing methodology already in place.
My Intel couldn’t handle the workload any more. I switched to the Macbook Pro M4 Pro (14c, 48GB RAM, 1TB SSD) after watching your videos. I‘m pretty sure this thing will NOT disappoint.
unfortunately apple´s logic itself lags behind and its what I use most of the time...and i also use Fl studio to create beats while sometimes i use Reaper to edit complex audios (its more flexible)
I find it amazing that an Apple product that had been available for just weeks went on sale for Black Friday, and not for just the usual few dollars off. I had planned on buying one even though I'm living on a very tight budget so it was a very pleasant surprise to save not $10 or $20 but a whole $100! The only negative is that so many others also went for the deal that I have to wait until January before mine will be shipped.
great video and very useful. If you want, next time try to put UAD's LUNA in the test as well. It is a pro DAW and it would be interesting to see how it is managed and how it utilizes the cores.
In my testing, LUNA uses all the Cores. What's interesting is... it uses the efficiency cores first, then, as demand increases, the performance cores become active, which would be useful if using battery power. James may be able to confirm this behavior and compare it to other DAWs
Great video James!!! Any chance you could measure the performance for different amounts of RAM, especially for samplers? 8GB of the M1-M3 was ridiculously puny, but 16GB still isn't much. But the 32GB upgrade for £600 is a slap in the face with a titanium robotic arm.
Excited for the Ram video :) As a composer Im still hung up on upgrading from my 2012 refurbished mac tower LOL. I'm gate kept from better plugins and VSTS because of my OS. I could always wait for the m4 studios. but then it feels like I'm waiting for the M5 etc etc because I had the same mindset about m1 and m2 and m3
Many thanks, James. You are the most scientific tester of them all. I would be very interested in knowing what the developers at Ableton are doing to accommodate the M4 chip configuration from the software side of things. Will Ableton optimize their DAW for the Mac mini in future updates? How can we be better informed of this kind of thing?
Great video , been waiting for this as an Ableton user I was worried about it only using the 4P cores,my projects are not overly complex so think the base mini M4 will handle it fine.
Great video, as always, James! You could do the same series for video editting purposes, ranking like Final Cut Pro, Da Vinci Resolve and others. A totally different scenario could appear for these Pro chips.
As a full-time video editor, I really want to test these Macs for video production too! But I feel like video production is very well-tested on TH-cam for Macs already, so I will need to see if I can add anything valuable to the table, haha
@JamesZhan I understand your concern. But you make such well-made and easy-understandable videos that I think video makers will enjoy as much as us audio geeks.
Thanks for the comparison. I went for the M4 pro version because I use Cubase and Logic. I also wanted the thunderbolt 5 ports to make it a bit more future proof. I know Apple have tried to justify it, but Logic not using all the cores is just plain nuts. Come on Apple. You’re own DAW using 40% of the processing power is a real mistake. Please address this in the next Logic update.
On my M1 Pro-MacBookPro, LUNA uses all the Cores (8P cores & 2e cores). How its performance compares to other DAWs, I'll leave that to James as he has a testing methodology already in place.
Great video comparison, thank you. I think you have given Apple (Logic) developers a serious wake up call! It would be interesting to include a usability score for the DAWs as although Studio One does not perform as well, it is easier to use compared to the others for a beginner, hence its popularity. Another interesting video to make would be to question whether current Mac’s are so good musicians will not need to upgrade, how will that impact Apples new M5 Mac’s? Interesting times.
I'd be surprised if they did because I discovered that Logic didn't use efficiency cores back in 2021. I think Apple just don't believe efficiency cores should be used for power tasks.
It's also worth mentioning that single core performance still matters, especially when tracking. The base M4 has the same single core performance as the high end M4 Pro. And that single core performance on the base M4 is incredible.
Thanks very much for the video, James. you make a pretty good point highlighting the fact that despite the new M4’s jump in performance, the previous models still get the job done, pretty damn well. I am a Ableton & Logic user so i fall right in that pit where i will have to spend more dough, if i want to reap further benefits of upgrading. i’ll wait for the RAM video .. thanks again, for that as i am pretty curious to see the differences. i’m a pretty intense VSTs user, so my M1’s (16gb) bottleneck is the memory . pricing here in Europe : . in Portugal, the base model is 730€ . . the M4 with 24gb is 1200€ . the Pro with 24gb is 1680€ . the Pro with 64gb is 2140€ i wonder if i should switch to CuBase..
If all you need is more RAM and not more CPU power, maybe look for used Macs with previous gen chips? Like I wonder if an M1 Pro Mac with 32GB of RAM will be a lot cheaper than trying to get 24GB of RAM in an M4 Pro now?
Would be great if in this tests you could include a “bounce” test. I use Pro Tools in a Mac Studio M1 Max and many times my bounce speed is around x1.5. And I do bounce stems individually! So imagine how much time I spend doing them!! Thanks for what you are doing!!
Thank you for your videos, they are very useful. You could talk about the temperatures reached by the new mac mini m4 and m4 pro. They seem quite high (105 degrees C) compared to my previous Mac mini M2 and no one talks about that
@@JamesZhan Personally I think it's all because they don't want their fans to soun at all because it would be very easy to make the fan of the mac mini cool down by raising the revs a little. So I think the best thing will be to use macs fan for now
As always great job on the video...the way you explain the various differences between the DAW's is spot and easy to understand. Just curious did the M4 you tested have 16 gb of memory?
On my M1 Pro-MacBookPro, LUNA uses all the Cores (8P cores & 2e cores). How its performance compares to other DAWs, I'll leave that to James as he has a testing methodology already in place.
Excellent video, thanks for putting in so much work. Can you comment on any differences in fan noise/loudness between the different machines? I was really hoping for a quantitative test of these as there seems to be a lot of discussion around the web.
The best Mac tester for music production on YT. Thanks!
true story ;)
100%
Honestly, I'm not sure how useful are these results. Test 1 - audio recording of 100+ guitars. Test 2 - 100 tracks with the same synth, Test 3 - process audo files only. Many people would not use audio tracks, or maybe just one. If you add acoustic drums VST, Bass Guitar VST, Piano VST (e.g., Keyscape), Saxophone VST, few more sample based instruments you will run out of 16GB RAM before you max out the CPU.
@@FirstLast-nr6gfthose test are just to determine relative power, how much more powerful is a mac compared to an other, not absolute values.
but yet no propellerhead reason test :(
You're genuinely the only TH-camr that I listen to with regards to Macs and music production. You know your stuff, do proper testing, providing reasoning behind multiple scenarios, and directly address the main worries that most of us as producers have. This to me is why I trust your input over 'Tech TH-camrs' who've never done anything proper in any of the DAWs. Thank you again for another great deep dive into this subject!
Thanks for your kind words! The music production use case is much less well tested for Macs I think because it doesn't push many aspects of the computer. What I mean is that, while video editing heavily involves not only the CPU and the GPU, but also the media engines in the chip, music production is mostly just about the CPU and RAM (not even the RAM if not much sample libraries are used).
This means that testing DAWs don't really give you a sense of how powerful a computer is *as a whole.* However, this is exactly why I started testing Apple Silicon Macs for music production in the first place-the tests that big tech TH-camrs do on Macs don't always apply for music production use cases.
I got the M4 Pro mini, I use Logic, and there is nothing I can do to make it struggle. It is kind of crazy when you consider that it has taken decades to finally reach the point where computers can handle the needs of audio production as intended. But I think we’re there. No more freezing tracks, no more worrying about plugin count. No more hassle. You just use it.
The review we were all waiting for!!! Thanks for all your hard work.
It is beyond me why Apple's own DAW can't utilize all cores. With that being said, I just record my bass guitar so who cares! Awesome video as always
I agree absolutely! I spoke to an Apple Logic 'expert' a few years back, when the M3 came out, and you'd think I'd insulted his entire family, lol! How dare I question Apple engineers 'logic' (scuze the pun!) as to why it can't use all the cores in their own DAW. Whats that damn BIG secret FFS???!
Well, by not using the efficiency cores, they do make the much pricier “pro” chip more compelling for pro users!
@@infindebula But they also make it "compelling" to switch to cubase or protools from logic.
I think it’s because it has less chance to crash using only performance cores, which is important for music production, specially live.
@@srinivasc1720 They ain't making the big bucks from Logic, though. They're making them from Macs. Logic was really just there over the past 15-20 years of Intel macs to provide yet another reason not to switch to Windows. Now, you just get the objectively better hardware by buying a Mac, so there's less reason to invest to make Logic compelling.
(PS: anyone would ever seriously switch *to* Pro Tools these days? :D :D )
This guy is the hero of humble people. Thanks, man!
Sold 100% and I have been a PC user for over 30 years, but the speed of this thing is, as you say, insane... Thank you for a great overview
I’ve been on the fence about M4 vs. M4 Pro, actually waiting for this video - Thanks James! Currently using Cubase 14 Elements. My projects are not all too complex at the moment; up to about 24 audio or VST tracks. I’m temporarily on an M2 MacBook Air. I noticed that while Cubase certainly does use all the cores for playback and audio processing, project exports uses only the performance cores. Partially to anticipate growing into more complex projects, I’ve decided to go with an M4 Pro Mac Mini w/ 24GB/1TB. In addition to the higher P-core count, I would imagine that Thunderbolt 5 products will become more commonplace over time. James, really appreciate the work you do on your channel!
Thunderbolt 5 will no doubt be a big feature in the future.
But.... by the time TB5 becomes the norm, and affordable, your m4 mac mini will be outdated and look like an expensive option.
A cheaper alternative would be to get the base model now, use it for 2 or 3 years, sell it for 60% of its original cost then buy the m6 mac mini pro which will be way more powerful than the m4 pro and way cheaper.
Thanks James, going with the Mac mini m4 pro. I use Logic Pro.
My mind is definitely made. I’m very thankful for this channel and all the knowledge You share. Thank You James!
Just ordered myself an M4 Pro MBP. (My first MAC) Your videos have been incredible help in choosing which device to get!
Glad to hear my videos are helpful! Hope you enjoy your first Mac!
Thanks for your high-quality videos! I'd really like to see some tests/reviews on RAM and SSDs for music production. I recently got the 12-core M4 Pro MacBook Pro with 24GB of RAM, and I tried downloading and playing a professional's orchestral Logic Pro project. With all the samples loaded, it needed 35GB of memory, so it took 13GB of swap space on the SSD. While it still played fine, I would think anyone using a whole orchestra of virtual instruments would want the 48GB of RAM (at least).
Man you’re amazing, AMAZING! thank you 🙏🏻
👍 before press play cause you’re doing a great job! I got the M4 base model the day it came out. For my projects I was fine with my M1 but I wanted 16GB of ram. Now I press play… cheers!
Thanks for your support! Hope you are liking your M4 Mac mini :)
Sure. It uses less desk space than my MacBook Air M1 base model, have more ports so no need for hubs and is more powerful.😁
Really interesting and useful as always 🙏🏻 Can you please include UAD’s Luna next time as this DAW is getting really popular ? Thanks!
yes! +1 for luna please!
I've been waiting for this video 😍
Great Video ! 1 little mistake in your chart at 6:54 where you have the m4 at 60 tracks for S1 but it looks more like Ableton´s 48 tracks. Many thanks for putting the time into clearing this stuuf up!
A cool scenario to test would be: export time (same number of tracks, same plugins on each tracks), across the different DAWs, to compare how they render things.
Thanks a lot for all the clarity🙏🏽🎶
Thanks, this was exactly what I wanted to know. It's great that you were able to cut through all of the hype to actually offer music makers important information and allow us to make informed decisions.
U're the best, Zhan!!!!
Great video. I use Ableton and Pro Tools, and just upgraded to a 14 core M4 pro laptop with 24gb memory. It was time to retire my 4 core i7 from late 2013! Very happy with the decision to get the 14 core Pro chip
14 or 16 inch and why and do you regret it
@@mitchmcturtle6890I went with the stock 14” 14 core M4 pro with 24gb of memory 1tb. I have an external 4K 27” display as well. I didn’t want to go crazy with memory as these machines use memory differently to older intel chips. My Mac Pro has 96gb. We will see if there’s regrets there with stock memory in a few years time. I don’t think it will be an issue.
@ if you’re going M4 pro I would get the 14 core. The 12 core has a smaller charger and if you upgrade anything memory wise, you’ll be at the same price as the 14 core. I think the stock 14 core is good value.
Great video, Jan!
M4 all the way!
However the bottleneck of audio production is 1 core performance.
Let's say we want to use mastering plugin on master bus.
So our master bus will use just 1 core.
And if that core clock is low then we can't use many "heavy plugins" like Ozone, Bloom, Intensity, etc.
These plugins are not needed for beginners or arrangers (these guys can use just limiter on the master bus) but for serious producers or mastering engineers it is essential.
That's what the mixing into a mastering chain test is for! I put heavy plugins on folder tracks and the master bus to factor in the single core performance.
@ ahh right! BTW I have tried your bus project on i9-9900k cpu and it was close to m1 pro.
Congrats James, interesting stats/reading. Another gr8 deep-dive!!
Thank you so much for testing. I‘m new into music production and will be using Logic Pro and want to get the new Mac mini. Now I know that I will definitely get the pro chip.
Now I can‘t wait for your testing of the RAM usage results. I‘m planning on getting the base version with 24 GB but I read on Reddit how someone recommended 1 GB per track which seems to be a little excessive to me.
It's a strange situation with Logic, but maybe Apple's reasoning is that limiting processing to P-cores can avoid any backgroud OS tasks causing CPU spiking on the E-cores, potentially interfering with audio loads, leading to a more reliable/less bursty processing audio load, reducing the risk of dropped frames (whilst having a lower baseline performance). As an audio software developer I'm still not sure how Logic is even able to limit processing to only P-cores - I didn't see that option in the API documentation. Also for consideration is RAM - if you are a composer using lots of heavy sample libraries, the M4 mini base configuration may not be ideal (but significantly better than the old 8GB base config on the M2 mini). If you happen to use plugins that you know use their own multi-threaded processing/thread pool (such as the ones I develop) you may still see good performance and usage of the E-Cores in Logic and Ableton even if they limit their main track processing threads to p-cores.
Thanks for chiming in with your technical knowledge! I consider myself a layperson and I have no knowledge in plugin development, so I just report empirical data and draw conclusions based on those. I have heard about the use of efficiency cores making the DAW less stable, but I have yet to experience that on REAPER or Cubase. The computer gets real laggy when all the cores are maxed out, but as long as the DAW isn't overloaded, the playback would always be smooth.
RAM is definitely a consideration, but like you said, that's directly related to sample libraries usage, and this video is focused on audio processing only :)
@@JamesZhan Your videos a great - I just subscribed. Just maybe in a future test it might be good to also test with a synth plugin that leverages multi-core to see how that changes things. Another valid test is just single channel mastering of a final mix.. all plugins in one track and no other tracks/aux buses feeding in.. most effect plugins can only do single core processing - some DAWs will break the audio buffer requests even for a single track over several threads (even if they are sequential audio buffer requests) as it can spread CPU load but may not help much in this case with a single channel other than maybe in terms of load spreading for thermal management.
@@wavesequencer Thanks for the kind words!
Do you know of any synth plugins by Native Instruments that leverage multiple cores? I don't use synths in general so I don't have many to begin with haha
I did the single core test in my M2 MBA and M2 Pro MBP videos. I might bring that back again.
@@JamesZhan I don't know of many synth plugins that do multi-core (there are probably quite a few now though), other than my own (Hyperion/Theia) and Dawesome's recent synths such as Myth (both via Tracktion) - but another option is to use 'Unify' which lets you build up multiple layers of single core synth/sample playback plugins & effects and will leverage the multi-threading capabilities properly on Mac (using Audio workgroups). I can help you with NFRs for Hyperion or Unify - as I just took on development of Unify.
Man.. I read this comment and replies to try to learn something... I learned I don't know much about plugin development! LOL...
Feel like a lot of us were waiting for you to do this one so thank you so much bro you're wicked! x
Been waiting patiently for this JZ assessment, thank you.
The king. Looking to buy this and was waiting for you bro.
great video. I ordered M4 pro mac mini 24go ram/1To as a logic user
That is exactly what I’m using for Logic. It’s awesome.
Thank you for your videos on performance for audio they are very helpful.
Fantastic video. Must've been the one I was waiting for - Just ordered Mac Mini, upgraded to 24GB Unified Memory. Thanks!
Angry Studio One shills/fanboys in 3, 2, 1...
I've been eagerly awaiting this video. This series is incredibly helpful, you're truly doing amazing work here, mate! Thank you!
I tried to stay away from doing any direct comparison between DAWs this time, which is actually what I should have done last time because comparing DAWs isn't the point of my videos! Thanks for your support and I'm glad you like my videos!
By the way, Reason uses all cores.
So appreciate your humbleness and all the work you put into your videos. Thank you for doing this exactly as you do ❤
Excellent video, this is literally valuable information!
Yes!!! He's back!!! Let's go!!!!
Just got the 64 GB M4 Pro for film composing in Logic - The ram is all I care about, but excited for the rest! I am going from a 2013 iMac 😮😮 Gonna be wild!! 🎉🎉
YES !!! THE BEST TH-cam CHANNEL IN THE WORLD🎉🎉🎉🎉
Great video. I've been on the fence on which one to choose for music production
Great comparison. Nicely done.
Hey I was wondering if you could do this test on Luna by Universal Audio. It's a free Daw.
I'm considering it! I already started working on these videos for these 7 DAWs a while back, so I will have to test the other DAWs later. FYI, I chose these 7 DAWs simply because they have the most search traffic/interest on TH-cam and Google according to stats from Google Trends.
On my M1 Pro-MacBookPro, LUNA uses all the Cores (8P cores & 2e cores). How its performance compares to other DAWs, I'll leave that to James as he has a testing methodology already in place.
Fantastic video, like all of your testing videos. Thanks so much!
My Intel couldn’t handle the workload any more. I switched to the Macbook Pro M4 Pro (14c, 48GB RAM, 1TB SSD) after watching your videos. I‘m pretty sure this thing will NOT disappoint.
Much needed review, highly appreciated..... thanks a ton brother...
Love your Videos! Thank you, James :)
Fantastic vid. Thanks, James!
unfortunately apple´s logic itself lags behind and its what I use most of the time...and i also use Fl studio to create beats while sometimes i use Reaper to edit complex audios (its more flexible)
Couldn’t wait for this video.
I find it amazing that an Apple product that had been available for just weeks went on sale for Black Friday, and not for just the usual few dollars off. I had planned on buying one even though I'm living on a very tight budget so it was a very pleasant surprise to save not $10 or $20 but a whole $100! The only negative is that so many others also went for the deal that I have to wait until January before mine will be shipped.
great video and very useful.
If you want, next time try to put UAD's LUNA in the test as well. It is a pro DAW and it would be interesting to see how it is managed and how it utilizes the cores.
In my testing, LUNA uses all the Cores. What's interesting is... it uses the efficiency cores first, then, as demand increases, the performance cores become active, which would be useful if using battery power. James may be able to confirm this behavior and compare it to other DAWs
THANKS !!!!
Great video James!!! Any chance you could measure the performance for different amounts of RAM, especially for samplers? 8GB of the M1-M3 was ridiculously puny, but 16GB still isn't much. But the 32GB upgrade for £600 is a slap in the face with a titanium robotic arm.
Such a fantastic video. Thank you so much for the breakdown. I opted for the M4 MacBook Pro (my first Mac) and will be running Cubase on it.
Excited for the Ram video :) As a composer Im still hung up on upgrading from my 2012 refurbished mac tower LOL. I'm gate kept from better plugins and VSTS because of my OS. I could always wait for the m4 studios. but then it feels like I'm waiting for the M5 etc etc because I had the same mindset about m1 and m2 and m3
Can't you use OCLP to run Sonoma or Sequoia?
Thank you so much! I would love to see a video using virtual instruments (Kontakt, etc) as a test benchmark for scoring rigs.
Many thanks, James. You are the most scientific tester of them all. I would be very interested in knowing what the developers at Ableton are doing to accommodate the M4 chip configuration from the software side of things. Will Ableton optimize their DAW for the Mac mini in future updates? How can we be better informed of this kind of thing?
Great! Thank you so much!
🤗👍🏼
Well done comparison video and content...💯👍
You Rock, Sir!
Perfect. Just perfect.
thx
Thanks so much for the tip!
Great video , been waiting for this as an Ableton user I was worried about it only using the 4P cores,my projects are not overly complex so think the base mini M4
will handle it fine.
Great video, as always, James! You could do the same series for video editting purposes, ranking like Final Cut Pro, Da Vinci Resolve and others. A totally different scenario could appear for these Pro chips.
As a full-time video editor, I really want to test these Macs for video production too! But I feel like video production is very well-tested on TH-cam for Macs already, so I will need to see if I can add anything valuable to the table, haha
@JamesZhan I understand your concern. But you make such well-made and easy-understandable videos that I think video makers will enjoy as much as us audio geeks.
Great information, Thanks!
Excellent review!
So for the bedroom banger that uses a few tracks, we are only limited by our budget.
Nice work to help those with bookoo tracks/ plugins.
Thank you James. Your technical content is the best. Im going to buy the base model mac mini and up the ram to 64gb using cubase 14.
Thanks for this video!
Thank you for your efforts. Very much appreciated.
Very honest review and thank you for sharing this precious information. My M1 Max is still working well, I shall upgrade my storage instead. =)
Thanks for the comparison. I went for the M4 pro version because I use Cubase and Logic. I also wanted the thunderbolt 5 ports to make it a bit more future proof. I know Apple have tried to justify it, but Logic not using all the cores is just plain nuts. Come on Apple. You’re own DAW using 40% of the processing power is a real mistake. Please address this in the next Logic update.
as usual great video!!! It would be great to see how luna performs
On my M1 Pro-MacBookPro, LUNA uses all the Cores (8P cores & 2e cores). How its performance compares to other DAWs, I'll leave that to James as he has a testing methodology already in place.
Thank you for your work
Great video comparison, thank you. I think you have given Apple (Logic) developers a serious wake up call! It would be interesting to include a usability score for the DAWs as although Studio One does not perform as well, it is easier to use compared to the others for a beginner, hence its popularity. Another interesting video to make would be to question whether current Mac’s are so good musicians will not need to upgrade, how will that impact Apples new M5 Mac’s? Interesting times.
I'd be surprised if they did because I discovered that Logic didn't use efficiency cores back in 2021. I think Apple just don't believe efficiency cores should be used for power tasks.
great vid btw. thanks!
thank you so much for those rich information.
It's also worth mentioning that single core performance still matters, especially when tracking. The base M4 has the same single core performance as the high end M4 Pro. And that single core performance on the base M4 is incredible.
You didn’t include Bitwig? Does it do good with m4?
Class act video, thanks! But James, you must call Presonus and tell them! I'm mixing on Studio One and want it to utilize all of the cores on my Mac 🥲
Hi. Love these audio science litmus-type tests. Do you happen to know if Bitwig uses all cores?
I’m never running more than 40 plugins, I’ll be good with the base 🙏🏾
MY GUY. Absolute goat
you're awesome dude
Your videos are so, so valuable, thank you! I am hoping though that maybe you could add Bitwig to your test DAWs at some point 😇
Wow I wish I saw this video before I bought the M4 Pro.
The M4 Mac Studio (mid 2025?) might be worth waiting for.
Thanks very much for the video, James.
you make a pretty good point highlighting the fact that despite the new M4’s jump in performance, the previous models still get the job done, pretty damn well.
I am a Ableton & Logic user so i fall right in that pit where i will have to spend more dough, if i want to reap further benefits of upgrading.
i’ll wait for the RAM video .. thanks again, for that as i am pretty curious to see the differences. i’m a pretty intense VSTs user, so my M1’s (16gb) bottleneck is the memory .
pricing here in Europe :
. in Portugal, the base model is 730€ .
. the M4 with 24gb is 1200€
. the Pro with 24gb is 1680€
. the Pro with 64gb is 2140€
i wonder if i should switch to CuBase..
If all you need is more RAM and not more CPU power, maybe look for used Macs with previous gen chips? Like I wonder if an M1 Pro Mac with 32GB of RAM will be a lot cheaper than trying to get 24GB of RAM in an M4 Pro now?
Would love to see Bitwig included. Thanks!
Would be great if in this tests you could include a “bounce” test. I use Pro Tools in a Mac Studio M1 Max and many times my bounce speed is around x1.5. And I do bounce stems individually! So imagine how much time I spend doing them!! Thanks for what you are doing!!
You’re my favourite person of 2024, thanks!
Awww that's nice to hear!
Cubase 14.. wow!
im a current M1 Max user… I waiting to see where the M4 Max will land on these test before I upgrade 👀
Thank you for your videos, they are very useful. You could talk about the temperatures reached by the new mac mini m4 and m4 pro. They seem quite high (105 degrees C) compared to my previous Mac mini M2 and no one talks about that
I'm working on a video on the thermal performance on the M4 chips!
@@JamesZhan
Personally I think it's all because they don't want their fans to soun at all because it would be very easy to make the fan of the mac mini cool down by raising the revs a little. So I think the best thing will be to use macs fan for now
As always great job on the video...the way you explain the various differences between the DAW's is spot and easy to understand. Just curious did the M4 you tested have 16 gb of memory?
Yes, it's the base $599 model so 16GB of unified memory.
Great Video.. Please try to test UAD Luna DAW.
On my M1 Pro-MacBookPro, LUNA uses all the Cores (8P cores & 2e cores). How its performance compares to other DAWs, I'll leave that to James as he has a testing methodology already in place.
Yo James thank you for this video it's awesome! What do we know about FAN Noise??
Plus one.
I will discuss that in a separate video.
@@JamesZhan okay awesome, thanks for the reply!
Thank you
great video thanks ! My M1 Max still rocks.
The M1-series chips set the bar extremely high. I would still recommend those to people for music production work right now.
@@JamesZhan Yes my M1 Air as well, I'm on Logic. Logic forward to have them a long time! thanks for your detailed review.
Excellent video, thanks for putting in so much work. Can you comment on any differences in fan noise/loudness between the different machines? I was really hoping for a quantitative test of these as there seems to be a lot of discussion around the web.
I'm working on a video specifically to talk about fan noise and thermals!
@ you're the best!
Thank you.
Audioggrider is the answer if you want to use the CPU you paid for.