I purchased my 3 axis dro glass scales, from China before the pandemic for $200, free shipping and no tax. They were pre cut to my specs. They work great! It has all the functions you described
@@matthiash.4670 DROPROS had Ditron LCD DROs for $59 shipped last year. I onlu purchased one but now need a 3 axis for my mill. Lowest price I can find on a similar unit shipped is $130. Scales are still $35-60 each shipped though they are 5um.
Brilliant video, with lots of useful information! Thanks, Presso! One tip though - ditch the centre drill, and invest in a few NC Spot Drills. They leave a 120° hole for your 118° drill point, and guide it in perfectly. The 60° hole left by the centre drill leads to inaccuracies, and will also damage your drills, especially cobalt drills. Keep up the great work! Mike
I heartily agree. Center drills are just to fragile in the smaller sizes IMO. They're like taps. Anyone who says that they have never broken one has never used one 🙄 And as to using center drills for lathe work I much prefer the bell type center drills. Much less chance of accidental damage to the center.
Hello, I have used TouchDRO on my mill for a while now. I really like it. You probably already know, but when your on the home screen you can tap the coordinates on the right side to put them in the incremental display and drive the machine to them. Very handy if you have a bunch of odd spaced points on a part. Just click add a point and you can come back to the same point any time without much hassel. Thanks for the videos.
Keith, I am only just getting around to using TouchDRO for some serious machining and I suspect there are lots of hidden features that I don't know about yet. I have seen the Add Point function but haven't used it yet. Thanks for the tips. Regards, Mark
Mark, I am in your debt. I'm planning to add a DRO to my milling machine in the next couple of months. I've been trying to decide between these two options. I think you've sold me on the touch DRO. Thanks for the great content.
OK but just remember, you will have to live with the flickering display and it's a lot harder to get the display to "settle" on a particular number. I find that if I am trying to land the spindle location on zero, for example, it will jump back and forward between 1 and 0. Toolmakers would not even consider capacitive scales because of those problems but I'm not a toolmaker and I am happy with a tolerance of .02mm which is less than a thou. I like the simplicity of the capacitive scales and I like that the TouchDRO app has a lot of functions only found in high end DRO's and it will get updates down the line. Regards, Mark
The Touch DRO is working well. I loved the wildlife at the start. Thanks for passing on the tip about the tubing to hold the clamps. A very good idea. I can see using this tip. Dave.
I can confirm that I was able to loosen and re tighten those clamps six times and the stack stayed intact the whole time. That guy Gary has some excellent tips. Regards, Mark
Very interesting video, many thanks. I recently added a DRO to my mini mill. I went for the glass scale, but 0,001mm. Which made them almost double the cost.
I think that the glass scale choice is the best one. I recently changed over from capacitive scales to 5 micron glass scales. The glass scales a bulkier and more difficult to set up but much more stable and reliable. I think the capacitive scales are a good entry level solution but in my situation, they did prove to be unreliable. Regards, Mark
Thanks. We are very fortunate to be living adjacent to a large National Park and we are also trying to create a sort of wildlife corridor on our property. We are really keen to provide some habitat for the very small birds that we used to see before a lot of land was cleared behind where we live. Regards, Mark
Good video, Mark. The iGaging Absolute Stainless Steel scales are more rugged than the Aluminum scales and do not exhibit the flickering last digit, but they do cost significantly more. I installed these on my Mini Mill (from Little Machine Shop here in the U.S.) with very good results. As I was going to use the iGaging displays, I "reverse mounted" the Y-Axis scale so that all three axes movements on the displays matched the hand wheel movements, i.e., increasing numbers on the hand wheels = positive readings on the displays.
Unfortunately, there are only two suppliers of iGaging products here in Oz and neither sell the stainless steel versions of these scales. I have had a suggestion on how to modify the read head to reduce the flickering but it means opening up the cover and fitting a small capacitor. I haven't tried it yet but I have the parts to do it. Thanks for the feedback. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Yes, Yuriy has made that suggestion as well for the aluminum scales. When I asked him if he thought I should do anything to isolate my scales from the mill or add the capacitors he suggested leaving well enough alone since I wasn't having problems. He did say the firmware in his new adapter did some things to minimize flickering, but you would need to add mini-USB sockets or adapters if you bought a new Blu-DRO adapter since it is made for micro-USB cables. I have been inside of the pickup head - it's easy to open up if you have tiny cross-point screwdrivers, you just need to be careful with the gib strip falling out (I had a scale that stopped working after a week when I first installed them and traced it to the pickup - there's not much you can do if the cable is connected so since I had purchased the scales over a year before I just got a new one). Regards, Charlie
Maybe this has been pointed out in some comment, but the Y axis counting direction is reversed. If you go to 12 o'clock on your workpiece to drill a hole, it should show a positive reading. That's why your visual display acts backwards, as it has the coordinate system correct.
I have since fixed the axis orientation. It's very easy on the TouchDRO system. There's no need to change pins or wires. The settings are in a menu. Regards, Mark
I put a Chinese glass scale 7seg unit on my Sieg X1 & haven't looked back. I was interested to compare with the Touch DRO, considering such for my lathe, but the 5.00 mark says it all for me "refresh rate is slower, resolution is not as good" - those two are show stoppers as far as I'm concerned. I know many people swear by Touch DRO & no doubt it's a viable system for some people, just not for me. Each to their own. Cheers Mark ;)
For what it's worth, I did eventually upgrade my scales to 5 micron glass units and all the refresh issues went away. I think the capacitive scales are really an "entry level" solution but for the slightly higher initial cost, the glass scales are worth it. I know that Yuriy at TouchDRO is no longer supporting adapters for capacitive scales because of many users reporting problems. The app has a lot of new features which I find to be very useful for the work I do. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Thanks for the update, interesting that just a scale swap solved the refresh rate ? I'll have to revisit the current range of scales available, not sure if there's enough space to fit glass scales on a mini lathe (small shop / limited space). much appreciated, keep up the great work mate ;)
I like your shirt at the start of the video. But living in seattle I must take issue...... we have a great 2 to 3 week period in late Sept to early August. 😉
Almost 20 years in the UK, but I grew up a few hundred km north of you. Spent many hours as a kid trying to catch a beautiful rainbow lorikeet, or simply a "greenie" as we called them. Noisy but beautiful. Good luck with the bird bath. Maggies are very clever and damn aggressive.
I tried to separate two lorikeets that were fighting with each other and had fallen out of a tree. One of them sunk it's beak into the flesh on the side of my thumb and wouldn't let go! The other was gripping my little finger with it's claws. I have learned the hard way to observe birds from a distance and to not interfere with their lives. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 I believe it! My sister almost lost her finger to a galah when she was young. Aussie parrots are beautiful but cantankerous! Keep up the good work. I'm enjoying your vids. 👍
Nick, I have been to Seattle twice and the last time we went we hung out a fair bit at the Pike Place Market. There was a vendor selling T shirts there and although we had perfect weather both times I was there I had heard lots of stories about the rainfall. I must say that we thoroughly enjoyed our time there and in particular we loved Mt. Rainier and Port Townsend. Regards, Mark
Hi Mark, thanks for the DRO comparison. I have the 3Axis Sino & Glass scales on my mill, but I am looking to DRO my little 8 x 18 lathe. By the way our Maggies down here in Tecoma VIC are very friendly, we have one at the back door every day & it is freezing & very wet at the moment. Cheers Peter
Peter, I probably shouldn't give the impression that our magpies are antisocial. Our resident population are very benign. We are fortunate that there is plenty of room for them to make their nests away from the houses. Urban magpies are more of an issue. I have had a lot of people say that feeding their magpies makes them immune to being swooped. Ours do get the odd bit of bacon rind but they have to take second place to the kookaburras! Regards, Mark
The LCD DRO you showed I got under the brand name Reeson and you can get it with up to 5 axis. I have it on my Emco FB-2 with 1 micron slim magnetic scales. They have a few different types of scales to fit whatever machine. All in about $800 USD. Works just about the same way as TouchDRO just a bit more accurate. For my Sharp HMV I use an Amazon tablet with TouchDRO and it works just fine. What's up with the whole screen flicker on yours, video edits? Do you live at the zoo? Man you got quite a variety of unique animals! Keep up the great work!
I tried to find out if any of the cheaper DRO's have an axis summing function but none of the brands that I looked at listed it as a feature. Before I decided to play with TouchDRO I wanted to go straight to an LCD type DRO with four axes but we had a bit of a cash flow problem at the time that I made the decision to add DRO capability to the mill. The solution was to fit the scales as money became available and the iGaging scales can be used with their own little LCD displays although they don't have much in the way of any extra features. In hindsight I should have just saved up and purchased a complete kit with the glass scales. I got a bit turned off the glass scales after I had read that they are more susceptible to damage with coolant contamination, especially the cheap ones. The screen flicker you were seeing is real and although it looks bad the bluetooth adapter is capable of recovering after what Yuriy calls a "transient signal". I believe that if you change the power supply to a battery all the flickering goes away. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 I had the same cash flow issue. The LCD you showed does support axis summing (at least Reeson does) . As for screen flicker look for an older style analogue power with an actual transformer NOT the digital style. You can also add a big high quality filter capacitor to help smoothing the DC power. Last thing is a small isolation transformer. Does it flicker on your phone at the same time????
I looked at the Reeson units and they appear identical to Ditron's D80-4V, but I believe that Reeson is no longer in business. Their website is down, but someone is still selling them on eBay under the Reesontool id. This looks like a great unit to me and, if it supports summing, it's what I intend to install on my mill. In your comment, you stated that it does. The Ditron manual doesn't mention the function. If you don't mind, I would appreciate your impressions of the Reeson LCD DRO; particularly in regards to the summing function. Does it retain the function when you turn the unit off and how is it enabled? Thanks.
@@CapeCodCNC I spoke to Yuriy (via email) about using an isolated power supply and he indicated that the latest version of the bluetooth adapter was more tolerant of ground loops however I think he meant that it was capable of recognising transient spikes in the power supply and recovering from them. I am thinking about trying a battery instead of a switching power supply just to see if it makes a difference. I have not tried the scales on my phone or my better quality Samsung tablet yet but I should do that for comparison. Regards, Mark
Oh, OK. I was having trouble working out why the visual display was upside down. It was counterintuitive. You sort of get used to it though. Thanks for the tip.
@@Preso58 Great video Mark as always. On a mill you always want to picture the tool moving and the table being stationary when figuring the directions of the readouts.
Hey Mark, That is an excellent overview! I had gone the mag scales and with the old Sino display and I wish I had known about touch DRO. Might be time to upgrade the display for me!! Thanks so much for sharing your experiences on this!!
I've done the sleeve over the stud trick myself. The job I retired from I used sections of rubber insulator bushings and made up any height issues with washers top and bottom.
On setting up hole patterns that are not tied to another feature such as a straight edge etc I have always found it useful to set the start angles so that if possible two adjacent holes have a move in only one axis. First hole at 22.5° for an 8 hole pattern. 45° for a 4 hole pattern. Just less cranking. Why wear yourself out 😁
You are quite correct. I realised later that I had made some extra work for myself but it's easy to get distracted by the "making a video" thing instead of concentrating on the job of making parts. Regards, Mark
Geez just get some mince and feed them during breeding season :-) Haven't been swooped once since I started feeding them over 4 years ago. They remember faces very well, and become used to you if you feed them.
You can use any type of scale with the TouchDRO app but you need to buy the corresponding bluetooth adapter to suit the type of scale you want to use. I chose to use the capacitive scales because they are a lot simpler to fit and they are a little more robust. I have been using the DRO a fair bit recently and so far it is working well for me. The flickering issue gets a bit annoying but the other features of the app make it a winner for me. Regards, Mark
I find it so annoying when you have a high resolution display, and then the app emulates segment displays with bad readability. Why on earth would you do that for a serious productivity app? Or can you change the font?
Bjorn, the TouchDRO app allows you to select three different fonts for the numerical display. There is a much nicer monospaced display font that is a lot easier to read. Regards, Mark
I know, everything is trying to kill you. Even the plants. I should add that the magpies around our place are quite good to us. They have never swooped us, probably because they tend to nest a fair way from the house. They are notorious for aggressive behaviour in built up urban areas because they have no choice about where they can build their nests and raise their chicks. However, they have long memories and their are reports that if you disturb them during nesting they will recognise you each nesting season and attack you forever! Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Australians are extremely proud of their wildlife and derive a great deal of macho bravado from it. Whereas other nations would rather emphasize their other qualities, Australians will eagerly showcase their animal population. They don't mind the Crocodile Dundees nor the Steve Irwins as their ambassadors. I find that wonderful! In the US, we have some interesting animal populations of our own, but they are barely an afterthought. I feel sorry for New Zealand as they were only endowed with the Kiwi bird.
That's correct. I had to do the job anyway so I thought I would try it out. The discs that I made had to fit over four pieces of 18mm steel rod so it was important that the holes actually lined up. I am guessing that I could have marked one out with dividers and a square and centre punched the intersections. It could be drilled and then used as a template for the remaining plates but they would probably only line up in one orientation. Regards, Mark
Yes you can but you need to have a different version of the TouchDRO bluetooth adaptor. There is a version that has the correct sockets for the glass scales www.touchdro.com/store/diy-dro-glass-scale-adapter.html Regards, Mark
Great video, and if I ever get the good fortune to be able to travel to Aus(my brother and his wife have lived/worked there for 5yrs, and they keep asking for us to come over), then I must really be aware of the "Complete bastards of the avian world!" @ 16:00 - LOL. Liked and subbed :)
I don't want you to think all magpies are so aggressive. Ours are relatively tame but during nesting season they can turn on you very quickly. Our cats are more of a target than we are. The up side is that they're song is very beautiful. Regards, Mark
now why would they make the non-active segments of the numbers visible on the tablet? hate to be the negative guy, but what a dumb idea... I have that Chinese dro, and had to use dark transparency over the number display to hide those non-lit segments, else they were too bright and I had hard time reading the numbers but that was the problem of the LED segmented digits, but here the UI designer consciously decided he'd mimic this bad design... they don't look as bad as the real ones, sure, BUT WHY?!
You can set up the digital display with four separate fonts. The seven segment display emulation is entirely optional. I have since changed my display and it is much easier to read. Yuriy is working on an update to the app which will offer far more functionality. One of the reasons I decided to go with TouchDRO was because the app can be updated, for free, and it can be personalised to suit the operator. Regards, Mark
Ok, so it seems that you would want to discourage those birds, rather than make a birdbath for them which will just encourage them to stay and bring their friends. Is there a reason why, in this dro, that you have to go through the zero point, rather than going directly to the next hole? That’s normally the way I go about it. Also, I usually make one hole at a time, changing the bits before going to the next hole. It’s much faster, and leaves less chance for error. When using a cnc, that’s not practical, because the time it takes for the tool changer overhangs the time to go through the sequence several times.
No, you don''t have to go through the centre of the pattern. When the "autoselect nearest point" option is enabled you can just move roughly towards the next point and it will sort of lock on to the position as you approach it. One of the reasons I didn't change bits at each hole position is that I was running the 18mm drill bit on backgear and the spot drill on direct drive. It means having to reverse the motor direction and engage the backgear at each hole so it's not that much of a time saver and I also wanted to see how accurately I could pick up the hole positions the second time around. I should also say I'm still learning about TouchDRO and that job was the first one I have done since the installation of the scales. I dare say I will get a lot more efficient as I go along. Regards, Mark
Mark, I assume the industrial bird bath is so that it doesn't get too much damage from shotgun pellets as you get rid the " Complete bastards of the avian world" and it will stand up to repeated shootings lol
I should have mentioned that "our" magpies are very benign. They do get a bit territorial during the nesting season but so far we have been left alone. Regards, Mark
I have a Chineseum DRO and a Acurite DRO. The Chineseum DRO does funny math when working in imperial. VERY FRUSTRATING. Accurate one does everything superbly!!!!! Wow if I had to do over again Acurite all the way.
I would dearly love to have an Accurite DRO but they aren't easy to come by here in the colonies. I recall watching a video by This Old Tony and he commented on the funny math that the Chinese DRO's do as well. I believe he put it down to the scales having metric gratings and when the DRO is showing imperial units it has to convert the input pulses to not quite metric divisions. The Chinese units probably use under spec electronics and I suspect there would be some compromises. From my perspective, I am often forced to use low(er) quality hardware not so much because of cost but because there are no (or few) Australian manufacturers of engineering tools and we are too far away from Europe and the USA. That leaves us with little choice than to use Chinese imports. Regards, Mark
That seems like a lot. I have checked my X travel over 8" and there is about .001 error which I suspect is due to wear on the X axis nut or feed screw. Over shorter distances it seems to be spot on. Regards, Mark
I think you did apsolutely wonderful with your explanation of the choices you made for your tooling. If you're happy we're happy, at least I am. Btw, we will be in the 28 degree to low 30's F tonight. I would trade with you for your climate temperatures. Ah, just wait 6 months. Thanks for the demo.
John, We were in Canada a few years ago and it was around late summer and the weather was glorious. We couldn't figure out why the public spaces like parks and gardens had no outdoor dining areas or picnic tables like we have here in Australia. We asked one of the locals and were told that for eight months of the year the place would be under metres of snow! We don't have a clue about cold weather here. Regards, Mark
Kinda interesting how Aussi and canadian dollar are near the same in value. Our governments create identical tax categories with identical names. Reminds of of when the Aussi PM and the Canadian PM addressed each their own parliament trying to sell the idea of entering the invasion and war with Iraq after 9-11. Few know that both our PM's used the exact same speach EXACTLY! Word for word speeches by two leaders to each their own houses on opposite sides of the world. Makes you wonder who wrote it? It's almost like they cook this crap up and think we are too stupid and distant to ever talk and figure it out.
I wonder if both our PM's were told what to say? I worked with a teacher from Winnipeg on a student project back in 2009. We got the chance to meet in London at the competition and we spent a few days comparing school systems in both countries. It was surprising how similar they were. I guess at the end of the day both Australia and Canada are still colonial outposts of the British Empire. At least Canada got their own flag!
This is bad advise.. Those I guaging scales are nearly the same price of some chinese glass scales. And if you end up with the plastic version, your going to end up with poor repeatability.
Yes, it's true that glass scales are probably a better solution but there are other factors that I took into consideration when purchasing the capacitive scales such as ease of setup, (slightly) lower initial cost, more crash resistant, less prone to coolant and chip damage and a more compact and lower profile form factor. Everything in engineering is a compromise and I was not promoting my solution as the "best" or "most accurate". It's just one alternative. Everyone is free to make up their own mind on which direction to take. As it turns out I have a conventional glass scale and DRO setup on my lathe and it works great. Regards, Mark
OK, I'm thinking it would still be three moves albeit shorter moves. I guess I just went with the defaults to show how easy the setup was with TouchDRO. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Even easier in the end.Once the first position is reached diagonally you only move one axis each time to move around the square and yes a much shorter distance ( 91.924mm ).What I don't understand is why watching your video made me realise that in the first place. Keep up the good work as I enjoy your videos.
Ha ha! But actually, their wings make a whistling sound when they take off. They are really pretty ducks and not normally seen as far south as where we live. Regards, Mark
W T F, TouchDRO is 100% Chinese, all ESP32 made in Shanghai with the scales made in Shenzhen, even the PCB was fab'ed in China ffs. What is this dude talking about... so funny.
That's a bit harsh. The developer of TouchDRO lives in the USA. Yes, he is using Chinese made hardware but then, so does just about every other manufacturer of electronic devices. In my view, Yuriy deserves credit for developing an alternative to the standalone, generic DRO using 7 segment displays. The app (not made in China) has recently been upgraded with lots of new features and that is the reason why I chose to use TouchDRO on my Bridgeport mill. If you purchase a Chinese made standalone DRO you are stuck with whatever operating system that was originally packaged with it. For balance, I use a standalone, Sino (Chinese made) 7 segment display DRO on my lathe so I have personal experience with both platforms. In short, there is a lot more going on with the TouchDRO platform than just the ESP32 and the PCB. Regards, Mark
I watched your video when you installed the iGaging readers. Now watching this video I think that I will do the same only a lot smaller, on my mini mill X2 Seig. Thank you, keep making videos. Lee
With the earlier version of the Touch DRO bluetooth adapters there was an issue where the numeric display would not settle on a particular digit. It would randomly count either side of the actual dimension even though the read head on the scale was not moving. The next version of the board mostly solved that issue by averaging five samples from the read head. In the video you can see the Z axis readout jumping around even though I wasn't touching the machine. It is mostly to do with the nature of the capacitive scales and not the actual TouchDRO bluetooth adapter. I replaced my original board with the updated version and now the display is rock steady. Regards, Mark
I see that touch fro has had many feature updates since its inception. Do you think there would be interest in an in depth tutorial video that goes through all these features for those who have no training to fall back on, explaining tool of sets, all the zeroing options etc etc?
That is the issue though with trying to make in depth tutorials. As the software evolves, the tutorials become obsolete or maybe misleading. I know that Yuriy (Mr TouchDRO) has made a lot of very good videos and they are available on his website. I believe he has made them available in different languages and with subtitles. I go back to them every now and again for guidance. Regards, Mark
Yes, the capacitive scales tend to cause the digital displays to flicker. The later version of the TouchDRO app has a digital filter that mitigates the issue but I have since changed over to glass scales. The capacitive scales were a bit of a disappointment and they weren't reliable enough. I guess you could tolerate them as a sort of entry level solution and they are relatively cheap and easy to set up but I couldn't rely on them 100%. The glass scales are great and I get rock solid readings from them. I am also using the beta version of the app which has a lot of CAD like tools built in. I think the beta testing version will go to public release soon. Regards, Mark
Must feel great to have another shop improvement checked off the list? ........ And one that tickled the nerd bone too is always a big plus. Thanks for summarizing the thought process and considerations. 👍👍😎👍👍
I loaded this app just to play around with (no mill, YET). It seems perfectly functional. When installing Servo type power feed units on a BP or clone consider installing one on the Z axis for the knee. Not sc much for machining but moving the knee up or down. I I stalled them on our Bridgeports and clone and they payed for them selves in about 4 to 6 months maximum just in time saved in manhours. About the magpies. Yes they seem to be proper bastards. My wife was watching that movie about the woman from NSWs that was paralyzed in Thailand and the magpies sure were in that.
I have one of those Chinese dro boxes with glass scales on my mill .. the menus are obtuse at best and very frustrating... but you got too love the manual.. it describes buttons not on the box, the table of contents list functions not in the manual or on the control box, and the box has functions not in the manual .... oh ya it written in chinlist with French and German grammar. I am just waiting for Yuri to re-stock the interface for glass scales to install a Touch DRO.. i think I will put igang scale on my horizontal mill ...
Good job we would do that in Germany on a FP4 NC. In Sydney they already had CNC in 1987.😁 They better should not mix up this mashines one day they are self employees.
Hmmmmmm........after 8 months of having it on my bench top manual mill I wouldn't be without it.....I don't know how I existed before the fit up, it opened up a whole new window of accuracy........I much prefer the glass scales, the display is much clearer and steadier.......fitting 3 axes was a 4 hour job and quite easy.
The main benefit that I found with any sort of DRO is the elimination of backlash issues in micrometer dials. I learned how to machine parts by taking backlash into consideration but with a DRO of any type you don't have to worry about it. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Exactly right........the ability to walk up to a reading in any direction without having to take up the backlash is one thing I treasure and not having to count the in between markings on the dial is treasure too.
Thanks for the video, even that I am late to the party. Looks good, I see the advantage of the touch screen. How about dirty fingers on the screen? My phone is quite sensible to that 🙂 I have the Chinese LCD type 4 axis DRO, it does have the summing function you mention, they just don´t show it in the ads, in fact it has a lot of functions they don´t show, I think the software is very much the same as the touch DRO, but off course the screen is smaller and no touch screen.
I haven't had any problems with the screen getting dirty enough to cause any malfunctions. At the time I was gearing up to purchase the TouchDRO system, the Chinese LCD DRO's were still fairly new and there wasn't a lot of technical information about them and very few users had posted anything on TH-cam. There was however, a lot of tutorials and published resources for TouchDRO. I did eventually replace the scales with 5 micron glass Sino scales and they have worked flawlessly. I would now consider the capacitive scales as an entry level system. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 Ok thanks, I see why more and more go for the touch DRO, I like the big screen as well. I might try it at some point, I allready have the glass scales, so it would be an easy swap I guess. Cheers.
Nice chat Mark, I enjoyed it very much, and the interest is because I have those iGaging units already. I would gladly trade my snow for some of your heat right now, so you go enjoy a cold one for me, cheers!
Be careful what you wish for.... we had temps up in the mid 30's today (that's C) and our chickens were really stressed. My wife had to put a bucket of water in their pen so they could cool off. However, I can drink more beer than usual and explain to my wife that, like the chickens, I need to avoid heat stress. Regards, Mark
I have seen lots of approaches to shortening glass scales. I suspect it's not for the faint hearted though. There seems to be plenty of sizes to choose from though. Regards, Mark
Nice informative video. Thanks for taking the time to document the money difference between the two approaches. I think in a previous video you thought the touch system was easier to install, is that correct? I’m interested in an industrial bird feeder design that can keep out magpies, how in the world? I am 10 minutes North of Seattle and it is about 4:00pm dark, 40 degrees F and raining, rain is forecast for next 7 days and in reality until this time next year.
The iGaging scales are definitely easier to install but the trade off is the reduced resolution. TouchDRO is really just an alternative to the traditional DRO consoles. I did actually finish off the bird bath today but it wasn't designed to keep the magpies out and I shouldn't really give the impression that "our" magpies are actually psycho killers. We never have a problem with them attacking us since they can nest far enough away from the house. In urban areas they are a bit of a nuisance due to them having to make their nests close to houses and roads. You don't make the Seattle weather sound too inviting. The last time I was there my wife and I had absolutely perfect weather for the three days we were there. Mind you, that was in late summer. Regards, Mark
Very helpful video. I am thinking about using TouchDRO vs other. I agree that having that cryptic display on the standard DRO's is crazy in this day and age.
Glad it was helpful! The app has recently been updated and there are lots of new features like tool tables and probe support. This was one of the things that I found attractive about TouchDRO. You aren't stuck with a set of built in features. Regards, Mark.
@@Preso58 You mentioned the flickering of the digits, and I saw it in the video. Was that because of the type of scales you used? Or was it noise from the Bluetooth connection between the scale adapters and the android device? I.e. will glass scales flicker like that?
@@KevinToppenberg It was to do with the capacitive scales. They behave quite differently to a regular glass scale. For what it's worth, I changed out all the capacitive scales on my mill to 5 micron glass scales. The flickering digit thing went away immediately. There is a setting in TouchDRO which averages up to five positions for each axis and it does help to reduce the flicker from capacitive scales but I had other issues with the capacitive scales that made the position reporting unreliable. It was probably caused by a noisy electrical environment which would occasionally cause one axis to misreport it's position. If you didn't see it happen you would ruin a part very quickly. It only happened very occasionally but I couldn't trust it so I took the pain and bought the glass scales. I think the capacitive scales are a low cost, entry level solution but TouchDRO is compatible with 1 micron glass scales and I think that is the premium solution. Regards, Mark Presling
Hey Preso....your laconic Aussie Style is doing our country proud...loving the workshop & equipment improvements...cheers Rodney down in Mexico (Melbourne) P.S. have you done a complete workshop tour?...I started my apprenticeship at GMH Fishermen's Bend on a Colchester....would love a walk around with the story of how you obtained each machine...
I should really do a back story for the Colchester since it was acquired in rather unusual circumstances. It literally fell off the (side) of a truck! I have resisted the urge to do a workshop tour since it isn't always the neat environment that you might see on the videos. Generally, I shift the mess from place to place as I set the camera up. However I will take you suggestion on board. Thanks for the kind comments. Regards, Mark
I may be mistaken, but I think there could be a simple software fix for the flickering that could also increase precision and improve accuracy (depending how the scales work I guess)... It's called dithering, basically just adding high frequency noise to the signal which gets averaged out before being displayed. Obviously the app developer would need to do this.
There is a setting in the TouchDRO app that averages five readings as the scale reader approaches a stop and you can enable this on any axis. The other thing you notice is that there are "transient" readings that show briefly but the bluetooth adapter is capable of recognising these and ignoring them. They still show on the app but they don't disrupt the final reading. Yuriy is making updates available for the app and that's one of the things that attracted me to the TouchDRO system. Regards, Mark
Just ordered a touch dro unit. I already own a Ditron LCD 2 axis unit I picked up last year when DROPROs blew out their inventory for $59 shipped on ebay. Went back for a 3 axis today and prices are well above a touch dro unit assuming you have an old tablet or phone plus you get a 4th axis option and or RPM and tool setter input. Would liked to have seen the cheaper unit still available without the Bluetooth module but it's still an OK buy at $99 shipped without 3d printed case.
I agonised for a long time over which way to go with the scales for my Bridgeport. At the end of the day it was the ability to sum the Z axis that did it for me. If I could offer one bit of advice it would be to mount the scales on insulating standoffs. I used aluminium and I still have occasions when the DRO intermittently resets itself when I turn the spindle motor on or off. Evidently, there is some interference that is caused by the switching in the motor contactor. Regards, Mark
Hey Mark. Awesome video, as always. Just the right amount of detail. Very informative. One question: Have you found any drawbacks to using the Tablet as opposed to a dedicated DRO display? Charging, on/off, ease of use, etc.? I just found a very good reason NOT to use some import DRO displays. I purchased one for my milling machine two years ago and was very happy with it, so I just purchased another one for my lathe. SAME brand and SAME model. Turns out that the software has been updated and the arrow keys on the new one function backwards. IE: Up arrow is 4,3,2,1, etc., and the Down arrow is 1,2,3,4, etc., which is extremely frustrating. I am constantly pushing the "wrong" arrow key. So I am going with Touch DRO soon. Thanks very much, Mark. Regards.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge since I made that video and I really should make an update video on TouchDRO and the tablet. Without going into much detail, I scrapped the iGaging scales and fitted 5 micron glass scales. The capacitive scales proved to be just unreliable enough to make me doubt the readings that TouchDRO was giving me. The glass scales, although more expensive and being more difficult to fit are 100% reliable and repeatable. Since I made the video, there have been some major upgrades in terms of new features in TouchDRO. I was beta testing the new version for Yuriy and I found some issues with the bluetooth connection on my tablet. This has now been addressed and I believe it has been fixed. There are also new features like tool tables, touch probe support and improved interfaces for data entry etc. This was one reason I went with TouchDRO since upgrades are free and they add lots of functionality to the interface. One issue I have found with using a tablet is that they tend to die after about three to four years. I am currently using my wife's old Samsung Galaxy Tab and the battery fizzled out so I bought a new one which revived it. However, leaving it connected to the charger makes the battery swell inside the case and I can now see a noticeable bulge in the screen. It does take an bit longer to start the tablet and connect to the TouchDRO adapter but if I am going to use the milling machine I just start everything before I start setting up the job in the machine. Shutting down is a four step process rather than just flicking the switch on the back of the DRO (which I use on my lathe). but again, I just do it right at the end of the day when I am cleaning up. Overall, I am happy with TouchDRO and I only use about 25% of the features that are available for most milling tasks. The other tools are there if I need them though. Regards, Mark
Hello Mark I am working on a Bridgeport clone and having problems with the two axis DRO. I thought it would be nice to add Z to the mix. remembered seeing you video, did some looking around found Yuriy lives just down the road a few miles. It's a small world. Also not too far from Boring Oregon.
Having the Z axis summing capability at a relatively budget price was what swung it for me and TouchDRO. Maybe Yuriy hides his light under a bushel as they say. I would not have known about his project if one of my subscribers hadn't pointed it out to me. Regards, Mark
You can absolutely shorten glass scales. I happen to have 3 that I have shortened between my mill and lathe. You just pack them with foam, cut all of the aluminum then score the glass all around with a dremel and snap them. The you drill a few holes for the end cap
@@Preso58 Breaking glass can be scary, but it is easy if you practice, by cutting it few times before you get to the final length. The pain is to drill and tap those 4 holes to secure the end feature. 👍👍👍👍
I bought this LCD/TFT type of DRO about a year ago for just 299 USD with 3 custom length glass scales included (any size up to 1200mm). For me this was a no brainer. The graphical UI is really good. I wouldn't prefer touch stuff, since most of the time you have coolant, oil or other stuff on your fingers. I would going crazy cleaning the display all the time.
What you are describing was going to be my first choice however we pay a lot more here in Australia and it's either an import or something double the price from Europe or the USA. There are some other benefits of using an Android device that I didn't mention on the video such as it's smaller footprint. light weight and it's very slim compared to the LCD/TFT consoles. You can also run other apps on it like a calculator, feed and speed charts and threading databases. TouchDRO also displays real time feed rates as you move along any axis. Regards, Mark
I thought i had seen all the videos from Eccentric engineering but can’t recall the trick with the hose ! Looks like my garden hose is about to get shorter - Oh well i suppose at least it is for a good cause and not some little mongrel chopping it up to make a bong 😂 Now if you really want to sink your teeth into some electronic trickery have a look at the electronic lead screw series by Clough42 and never have to fiddle around with change gears again ! Now if we could only get the electronic lead screw set up to talk to the touch dro app for a lathe you would have one slick set up !
I have been watching the series by Clough42. He is doing an amazing job. I think we are going to see a lot of convergence over the next few years with regard to embedded software and motion control. Very exciting indeed. The trick with the rubber hose and the clamps was shown on Gary's Instagram. It was just a short video and some photos but it works a treat. Regards, Mark
Mark, I think I may eventually add a TouchDRO to my mill drill and I really like the tip about placing a rubber hose between the table and the clamp. When you use the MDF(?) backer board, is it flat enough "as-is" or do you need to face it first?
Bob, the spoil board was some 35mm thick chipboard counter top. It was flat enough as is given that the plates were for a welded steel structure for my garden. Regards, Mark
Thanks for letting me know. I tried and failed to find out myself but surprisingly, for such a useful feature it isn't mentioned on any of the Ebay listings. Regards, Mark
I am very much a visual learner. If you show me a map I can get from A to B no problem. If you give me a verbal list of instructions I will be lost after the first turn. One of the skills we had to learn as teachers was to identify which students learned best using visual cues, which needed verbal reinforcement and which kids learned best by doing or role playing. Regards, Mark
Thanks for the comparison and demonstration. I was thinking this might be a good match for my cheap Grizzly mill but I have a feeling that flicker would drive me crazy. I'll just stick to the dials for now. I'm looking forward to the power drawbar video though!
I do believe that the flicker issue can be reduced or eliminated by running the bluetooth adapter with a battery. I haven't tried it though. Regards, Mark
Take those iGaging scales apart and solder a capacitor between Vdd and ground. It'll smooth out 95% of the readings jumping all over the place. I soldered a tiny 4.7uF cap between the bare Vdd test point on the board and then scraped a clean ground near one of the screws. It takes about 5 minutes and will make your life so much better.
That's interesting. I believe that most of the flicker is caused by ground loops in the power supply. I have been meaning to try it out just using a battery instead of the switching power supply. I might your solution by Yuriy and see what he thinks. Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 That's not correct. The IC inside the scale itself samples the capacitive sensors (2 for quadrature encoding) then sends it through the cable as a 21 bit serial datastream. No analog to digital conversion is done at the TouchDRO. So long as the read head itself has a smooth power supply it can accurately take samples. A capacitor will help achieve this.
@@joels7605 OK, thanks for clearing that up. I will try it and let people know if it works out. If I can get rid of that flicker I will be one happy dude! So, just to be clear, are we talking about a 4.7uF electrolytic, negative side to ground or a common ceramic capacitor? Regards, Mark
@@Preso58 I grabbed 4.7uF electrolytics because that's what I had on hand that would fit inside the plastic case, negative side to ground, positive to Vdd. Ceramics might be a better choice. From the factory there's only one tiny little surface mount capacitor right next to the IC and I don't think it does a lot. The test points on the board are silk screened right by the USB plug (there's a micro USB port inside the case). You'll have to make your own ground. I just scratched clean a bit of the ground plane by the screw nearest to the test points, but the bare solder on the USB connector might be a good choice too. Once you take the cover off it really is like a 5 minute job. Before the capacitors three of my four axis jumped all over the place like crazy, even with the averaging filter enabled in TouchDRO. It was basically unusable. They're smooth as butter now with the averaging filter turned off. Unforunately every 15 or 20 seconds it still does weird things. It'll read perfectly, then jump to like 1500 inches for a split second, then jump back to being perfectly behaved. I suspect that's a digital communication issue. If I ever get that problem sorted I'll report back. My money is on USB cables that are way too long but I'm not having much luck finding micro-USB to micro-USB to replace the factory ones.
I purchased my 3 axis dro glass scales, from China before the pandemic for $200, free shipping and no tax. They were pre cut to my specs. They work great! It has all the functions you described
For 299 I got the LCD/TFT dro also included. Works great! Really don't regret this purchase.
@@matthiash.4670 DROPROS had Ditron LCD DROs for $59 shipped last year. I onlu purchased one but now need a 3 axis for my mill. Lowest price I can find on a similar unit shipped is $130. Scales are still $35-60 each shipped though they are 5um.
Brilliant video, with lots of useful information! Thanks, Presso! One tip though - ditch the centre drill, and invest in a few NC Spot Drills. They leave a 120° hole for your 118° drill point, and guide it in perfectly. The 60° hole left by the centre drill leads to inaccuracies, and will also damage your drills, especially cobalt drills.
Keep up the great work!
Mike
I heartily agree. Center drills are just to fragile in the smaller sizes IMO. They're like taps. Anyone who says that they have never broken one has never used one 🙄 And as to using center drills for lathe work I much prefer the bell type center drills. Much less chance of accidental damage to the center.
I like the hose trick. Also loved the demonstration of the hole layout. Thanks Mark
I've done something similiar using sections of rubber insulator bushings to keep the threads clean and act as springs. And have used just springs too
Best shop teacher in all the lands!
Hello, I have used TouchDRO on my mill for a while now. I really like it. You probably already know, but when your on the home screen you can tap the coordinates on the right side to put them in the incremental display and drive the machine to them. Very handy if you have a bunch of odd spaced points on a part. Just click add a point and you can come back to the same point any time without much hassel. Thanks for the videos.
Keith, I am only just getting around to using TouchDRO for some serious machining and I suspect there are lots of hidden features that I don't know about yet. I have seen the Add Point function but haven't used it yet. Thanks for the tips.
Regards,
Mark
Great video! The workspace preview directions should reflect what you physically see. The y-axis is inverted. THAT would drive me nuts!
Mark, I am in your debt. I'm planning to add a DRO to my milling machine in the next couple of months. I've been trying to decide between these two options. I think you've sold me on the touch DRO. Thanks for the great content.
OK but just remember, you will have to live with the flickering display and it's a lot harder to get the display to "settle" on a particular number. I find that if I am trying to land the spindle location on zero, for example, it will jump back and forward between 1 and 0. Toolmakers would not even consider capacitive scales because of those problems but I'm not a toolmaker and I am happy with a tolerance of .02mm which is less than a thou. I like the simplicity of the capacitive scales and I like that the TouchDRO app has a lot of functions only found in high end DRO's and it will get updates down the line.
Regards,
Mark
The Touch DRO is working well.
I loved the wildlife at the start.
Thanks for passing on the tip about the tubing to hold the clamps. A very good idea. I can see using this tip.
Dave.
I can confirm that I was able to loosen and re tighten those clamps six times and the stack stayed intact the whole time. That guy Gary has some excellent tips.
Regards,
Mark
I look forward to your next video, as I do all yours! Thank you so much for sharing with us.
Very interesting video, many thanks. I recently added a DRO to my mini mill. I went for the glass scale, but 0,001mm. Which made them almost double the cost.
I think that the glass scale choice is the best one. I recently changed over from capacitive scales to 5 micron glass scales. The glass scales a bulkier and more difficult to set up but much more stable and reliable. I think the capacitive scales are a good entry level solution but in my situation, they did prove to be unreliable.
Regards,
Mark
Very informative and the hose trick is pure gold! Thank you...
I really enjoy seeing the wildlife in your videos, thanks.
Thanks. We are very fortunate to be living adjacent to a large National Park and we are also trying to create a sort of wildlife corridor on our property. We are really keen to provide some habitat for the very small birds that we used to see before a lot of land was cleared behind where we live.
Regards,
Mark
Excellent vid Mark! Looking fwd to seeing your next project!
Thanks Steve. We are in for some wet weather so I guess I'll be in the shed for some time!
Regards,
Mark
Good video, Mark. The iGaging Absolute Stainless Steel scales are more rugged than the Aluminum scales and do not exhibit the flickering last digit, but they do cost significantly more. I installed these on my Mini Mill (from Little Machine Shop here in the U.S.) with very good results. As I was going to use the iGaging displays, I "reverse mounted" the Y-Axis scale so that all three axes movements on the displays matched the hand wheel movements, i.e., increasing numbers on the hand wheels = positive readings on the displays.
Unfortunately, there are only two suppliers of iGaging products here in Oz and neither sell the stainless steel versions of these scales. I have had a suggestion on how to modify the read head to reduce the flickering but it means opening up the cover and fitting a small capacitor. I haven't tried it yet but I have the parts to do it. Thanks for the feedback.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Yes, Yuriy has made that suggestion as well for the aluminum scales. When I asked him if he thought I should do anything to isolate my scales from the mill or add the capacitors he suggested leaving well enough alone since I wasn't having problems. He did say the firmware in his new adapter did some things to minimize flickering, but you would need to add mini-USB sockets or adapters if you bought a new Blu-DRO adapter since it is made for micro-USB cables.
I have been inside of the pickup head - it's easy to open up if you have tiny cross-point screwdrivers, you just need to be careful with the gib strip falling out (I had a scale that stopped working after a week when I first installed them and traced it to the pickup - there's not much you can do if the cable is connected so since I had purchased the scales over a year before I just got a new one).
Regards, Charlie
Thanks for the video, and nice touch with the thumbnail btw, I enjoyed it =)
Maybe this has been pointed out in some comment, but the Y axis counting direction is reversed. If you go to 12 o'clock on your workpiece to drill a hole, it should show a positive reading. That's why your visual display acts backwards, as it has the coordinate system correct.
I have since fixed the axis orientation. It's very easy on the TouchDRO system. There's no need to change pins or wires. The settings are in a menu.
Regards,
Mark
I put a Chinese glass scale 7seg unit on my Sieg X1 & haven't looked back. I was interested to compare with the Touch DRO, considering such for my lathe, but the 5.00 mark says it all for me "refresh rate is slower, resolution is not as good" - those two are show stoppers as far as I'm concerned. I know many people swear by Touch DRO & no doubt it's a viable system for some people, just not for me. Each to their own. Cheers Mark ;)
For what it's worth, I did eventually upgrade my scales to 5 micron glass units and all the refresh issues went away. I think the capacitive scales are really an "entry level" solution but for the slightly higher initial cost, the glass scales are worth it. I know that Yuriy at TouchDRO is no longer supporting adapters for capacitive scales because of many users reporting problems. The app has a lot of new features which I find to be very useful for the work I do.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Thanks for the update, interesting that just a scale swap solved the refresh rate ? I'll have to revisit the current range of scales available, not sure if there's enough space to fit glass scales on a mini lathe (small shop / limited space). much appreciated, keep up the great work mate ;)
I like your shirt at the start of the video. But living in seattle I must take issue...... we have a great 2 to 3 week period in late Sept to early August. 😉
Gotta love it “complete bastards of the avian world…..” thanks for your videos Mark always instructional and entertaining.
Almost 20 years in the UK, but I grew up a few hundred km north of you. Spent many hours as a kid trying to catch a beautiful rainbow lorikeet, or simply a "greenie" as we called them. Noisy but beautiful. Good luck with the bird bath. Maggies are very clever and damn aggressive.
I tried to separate two lorikeets that were fighting with each other and had fallen out of a tree. One of them sunk it's beak into the flesh on the side of my thumb and wouldn't let go! The other was gripping my little finger with it's claws. I have learned the hard way to observe birds from a distance and to not interfere with their lives.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I believe it! My sister almost lost her finger to a galah when she was young. Aussie parrots are beautiful but cantankerous! Keep up the good work. I'm enjoying your vids. 👍
As someone who grew up in Seattle...that shirt is hilarious and I must find one. Cheers!
Nick, I have been to Seattle twice and the last time we went we hung out a fair bit at the Pike Place Market. There was a vendor selling T shirts there and although we had perfect weather both times I was there I had heard lots of stories about the rainfall. I must say that we thoroughly enjoyed our time there and in particular we loved Mt. Rainier and Port Townsend.
Regards,
Mark
Hi Mark, thanks for the DRO comparison. I have the 3Axis Sino & Glass scales on my mill, but I am looking to DRO my little 8 x 18 lathe. By the way our Maggies down here in Tecoma VIC are very friendly, we have one at the back door every day & it is freezing & very wet at the moment. Cheers Peter
Peter, I probably shouldn't give the impression that our magpies are antisocial. Our resident population are very benign. We are fortunate that there is plenty of room for them to make their nests away from the houses. Urban magpies are more of an issue. I have had a lot of people say that feeding their magpies makes them immune to being swooped. Ours do get the odd bit of bacon rind but they have to take second place to the kookaburras!
Regards,
Mark
The LCD DRO you showed I got under the brand name Reeson and you can get it with up to 5 axis. I have it on my Emco FB-2 with 1 micron slim magnetic scales. They have a few different types of scales to fit whatever machine. All in about $800 USD. Works just about the same way as TouchDRO just a bit more accurate. For my Sharp HMV I use an Amazon tablet with TouchDRO and it works just fine. What's up with the whole screen flicker on yours, video edits? Do you live at the zoo? Man you got quite a variety of unique animals! Keep up the great work!
I tried to find out if any of the cheaper DRO's have an axis summing function but none of the brands that I looked at listed it as a feature. Before I decided to play with TouchDRO I wanted to go straight to an LCD type DRO with four axes but we had a bit of a cash flow problem at the time that I made the decision to add DRO capability to the mill. The solution was to fit the scales as money became available and the iGaging scales can be used with their own little LCD displays although they don't have much in the way of any extra features. In hindsight I should have just saved up and purchased a complete kit with the glass scales. I got a bit turned off the glass scales after I had read that they are more susceptible to damage with coolant contamination, especially the cheap ones. The screen flicker you were seeing is real and although it looks bad the bluetooth adapter is capable of recovering after what Yuriy calls a "transient signal". I believe that if you change the power supply to a battery all the flickering goes away.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I had the same cash flow issue. The LCD you showed does support axis summing (at least Reeson does) . As for screen flicker look for an older style analogue power with an actual transformer NOT the digital style. You can also add a big high quality filter capacitor to help smoothing the DC power. Last thing is a small isolation transformer. Does it flicker on your phone at the same time????
I looked at the Reeson units and they appear identical to Ditron's D80-4V, but I believe that Reeson is no longer in business. Their website is down, but someone is still selling them on eBay under the Reesontool id. This looks like a great unit to me and, if it supports summing, it's what I intend to install on my mill. In your comment, you stated that it does. The Ditron manual doesn't mention the function.
If you don't mind, I would appreciate your impressions of the Reeson LCD DRO; particularly in regards to the summing function. Does it retain the function when you turn the unit off and how is it enabled? Thanks.
@@CapeCodCNC I spoke to Yuriy (via email) about using an isolated power supply and he indicated that the latest version of the bluetooth adapter was more tolerant of ground loops however I think he meant that it was capable of recognising transient spikes in the power supply and recovering from them. I am thinking about trying a battery instead of a switching power supply just to see if it makes a difference. I have not tried the scales on my phone or my better quality Samsung tablet yet but I should do that for comparison.
Regards,
Mark
If you reverse the axes from positive to negative in the app the screen will show the correct movements at the moment you have it reversed
Oh, OK. I was having trouble working out why the visual display was upside down. It was counterintuitive. You sort of get used to it though.
Thanks for the tip.
@@Preso58 Great video Mark as always. On a mill you always want to picture the tool moving and the table being stationary when figuring the directions of the readouts.
Thanks from Boston Massachusetts
Thanks for watching. I've been to Boston. Very much enjoyed touring the USS Constitution!
Regards,
Mark
Thank you for sharing the information Mark!
Hey Mark, That is an excellent overview! I had gone the mag scales and with the old Sino display and I wish I had known about touch DRO. Might be time to upgrade the display for me!! Thanks so much for sharing your experiences on this!!
That touch dro looks good actually. Liking the setup. Maybe it would work well on my lathe.
I have rubber hose over the two table locks exposed thread. It stops metal filings jamming up their thread. Tx for the video.
I've done the sleeve over the stud trick myself. The job I retired from I used sections of rubber insulator bushings and made up any height issues with washers top and bottom.
On setting up hole patterns that are not tied to another feature such as a straight edge etc I have always found it useful to set the start angles so that if possible two adjacent holes have a move in only one axis. First hole at 22.5° for an 8 hole pattern. 45° for a 4 hole pattern. Just less cranking. Why wear yourself out 😁
You are quite correct. I realised later that I had made some extra work for myself but it's easy to get distracted by the "making a video" thing instead of concentrating on the job of making parts.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58
Why thank you Mark
Regards, Mark (I was named after a hair lip dog)
you can use your 2 fingers to zoom in and out in that preview screen. makes it easier if you got lots of hole to drill.
I didn't know that but I guess I should have tried it. Thanks for the tip.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks Mark that is very helpful......
Geez just get some mince and feed them during breeding season :-) Haven't been swooped once since I started feeding them over 4 years ago. They remember faces very well, and become used to you if you feed them.
My Mum does that, funny seeing them line up at her door at the same time every day.
That's called "payoff"!
4x130? Sounds like there's an old VW wheel involved.
Awesome job mate. Will you be powder coating that steel? Thumbs up.
Unfortunately the whole assembly won't fit in my repurposed domestic oven. I think I am just going to let it go rusty.
Regards,
Mark
I Don't know if this shows off my ignorance, but could you use glass and or capacitive scales with a tablet instead of the Sino Display
You can use any type of scale with the TouchDRO app but you need to buy the corresponding bluetooth adapter to suit the type of scale you want to use. I chose to use the capacitive scales because they are a lot simpler to fit and they are a little more robust. I have been using the DRO a fair bit recently and so far it is working well for me. The flickering issue gets a bit annoying but the other features of the app make it a winner for me.
Regards,
Mark
Looks like a pretty cool system, have you tried the probe function?
Not yet. There are a lot of functions that I am still finding out about. Probably then next upgrade will be to set up the tachometer.
Regards,
Mark
Awesome, I can't wait to see what goodies it can do.
Thanks mark
I find it so annoying when you have a high resolution display, and then the app emulates segment displays with bad readability. Why on earth would you do that for a serious productivity app? Or can you change the font?
Bjorn, the TouchDRO app allows you to select three different fonts for the numerical display. There is a much nicer monospaced display font that is a lot easier to read.
Regards,
Mark
Australian wild life is terrifying!
I know, everything is trying to kill you. Even the plants. I should add that the magpies around our place are quite good to us. They have never swooped us, probably because they tend to nest a fair way from the house. They are notorious for aggressive behaviour in built up urban areas because they have no choice about where they can build their nests and raise their chicks. However, they have long memories and their are reports that if you disturb them during nesting they will recognise you each nesting season and attack you forever!
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Australians are extremely proud of their wildlife and derive a great deal of macho bravado from it. Whereas other nations would rather emphasize their other qualities, Australians will eagerly showcase their animal population. They don't mind the Crocodile Dundees nor the Steve Irwins as their ambassadors. I find that wonderful! In the US, we have some interesting animal populations of our own, but they are barely an afterthought. I feel sorry for New Zealand as they were only endowed with the Kiwi bird.
Seems kind of silly to use the bolt hole pattern calculator for 4 holes, but I suppose the point was to show off the functionality.
That's correct. I had to do the job anyway so I thought I would try it out. The discs that I made had to fit over four pieces of 18mm steel rod so it was important that the holes actually lined up. I am guessing that I could have marked one out with dividers and a square and centre punched the intersections. It could be drilled and then used as a template for the remaining plates but they would probably only line up in one orientation.
Regards,
Mark
Can you connect glass scales to the touch dro?
Yes you can but you need to have a different version of the TouchDRO bluetooth adaptor. There is a version that has the correct sockets for the glass scales www.touchdro.com/store/diy-dro-glass-scale-adapter.html
Regards,
Mark
Great video, and if I ever get the good fortune to be able to travel to Aus(my brother and his wife have lived/worked there for 5yrs, and they keep asking for us to come over), then I must really be aware of the "Complete bastards of the avian world!" @ 16:00 - LOL.
Liked and subbed :)
I don't want you to think all magpies are so aggressive. Ours are relatively tame but during nesting season they can turn on you very quickly. Our cats are more of a target than we are. The up side is that they're song is very beautiful.
Regards,
Mark
now why would they make the non-active segments of the numbers visible on the tablet? hate to be the negative guy, but what a dumb idea... I have that Chinese dro, and had to use dark transparency over the number display to hide those non-lit segments, else they were too bright and I had hard time reading the numbers
but that was the problem of the LED segmented digits, but here the UI designer
consciously decided he'd mimic this bad design... they don't look as bad as the real ones, sure, BUT WHY?!
You can set up the digital display with four separate fonts. The seven segment display emulation is entirely optional. I have since changed my display and it is much easier to read. Yuriy is working on an update to the app which will offer far more functionality. One of the reasons I decided to go with TouchDRO was because the app can be updated, for free, and it can be personalised to suit the operator.
Regards,
Mark
Ok, so it seems that you would want to discourage those birds, rather than make a birdbath for them which will just encourage them to stay and bring their friends.
Is there a reason why, in this dro, that you have to go through the zero point, rather than going directly to the next hole? That’s normally the way I go about it. Also, I usually make one hole at a time, changing the bits before going to the next hole. It’s much faster, and leaves less chance for error. When using a cnc, that’s not practical, because the time it takes for the tool changer overhangs the time to go through the sequence several times.
No, you don''t have to go through the centre of the pattern. When the "autoselect nearest point" option is enabled you can just move roughly towards the next point and it will sort of lock on to the position as you approach it. One of the reasons I didn't change bits at each hole position is that I was running the 18mm drill bit on backgear and the spot drill on direct drive. It means having to reverse the motor direction and engage the backgear at each hole so it's not that much of a time saver and I also wanted to see how accurately I could pick up the hole positions the second time around. I should also say I'm still learning about TouchDRO and that job was the first one I have done since the installation of the scales. I dare say I will get a lot more efficient as I go along.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 ok Mark, that makes sense. Thanks for answering.
It's not one man's place to question another's choice of birdbath.
Very industrial, the birds must be massive in Queensland!
Mark, I assume the industrial bird bath is so that it doesn't get too much damage from shotgun pellets as you get rid the " Complete bastards of the avian world" and it will stand up to repeated shootings lol
I should have mentioned that "our" magpies are very benign. They do get a bit territorial during the nesting season but so far we have been left alone.
Regards,
Mark
👍👍
I have a Chineseum DRO and a Acurite DRO. The Chineseum DRO does funny math when working in imperial. VERY FRUSTRATING. Accurate one does everything superbly!!!!! Wow if I had to do over again Acurite all the way.
I would dearly love to have an Accurite DRO but they aren't easy to come by here in the colonies. I recall watching a video by This Old Tony and he commented on the funny math that the Chinese DRO's do as well. I believe he put it down to the scales having metric gratings and when the DRO is showing imperial units it has to convert the input pulses to not quite metric divisions. The Chinese units probably use under spec electronics and I suspect there would be some compromises. From my perspective, I am often forced to use low(er) quality hardware not so much because of cost but because there are no (or few) Australian manufacturers of engineering tools and we are too far away from Europe and the USA. That leaves us with little choice than to use Chinese imports.
Regards,
Mark
I have the same brand mine is out .007 on one inch.
That seems like a lot. I have checked my X travel over 8" and there is about .001 error which I suspect is due to wear on the X axis nut or feed screw. Over shorter distances it seems to be spot on.
Regards,
Mark
I think you did apsolutely wonderful with your explanation of the choices you made for your tooling. If you're happy we're happy, at least I am. Btw, we will be in the 28 degree to low 30's F tonight. I would trade with you for your climate temperatures. Ah, just wait 6 months. Thanks for the demo.
John, We were in Canada a few years ago and it was around late summer and the weather was glorious. We couldn't figure out why the public spaces like parks and gardens had no outdoor dining areas or picnic tables like we have here in Australia. We asked one of the locals and were told that for eight months of the year the place would be under metres of snow! We don't have a clue about cold weather here.
Regards,
Mark
Kinda interesting how Aussi and canadian dollar are near the same in value. Our governments create identical tax categories with identical names. Reminds of of when the Aussi PM and the Canadian PM addressed each their own parliament trying to sell the idea of entering the invasion and war with Iraq after 9-11. Few know that both our PM's used the exact same speach EXACTLY! Word for word speeches by two leaders to each their own houses on opposite sides of the world. Makes you wonder who wrote it? It's almost like they cook this crap up and think we are too stupid and distant to ever talk and figure it out.
I wonder if both our PM's were told what to say? I worked with a teacher from Winnipeg on a student project back in 2009. We got the chance to meet in London at the competition and we spent a few days comparing school systems in both countries. It was surprising how similar they were. I guess at the end of the day both Australia and Canada are still colonial outposts of the British Empire. At least Canada got their own flag!
This is bad advise..
Those I guaging scales are nearly the same price of some chinese glass scales.
And if you end up with the plastic version, your going to end up with poor repeatability.
Yes, it's true that glass scales are probably a better solution but there are other factors that I took into consideration when purchasing the capacitive scales such as ease of setup, (slightly) lower initial cost, more crash resistant, less prone to coolant and chip damage and a more compact and lower profile form factor. Everything in engineering is a compromise and I was not promoting my solution as the "best" or "most accurate". It's just one alternative. Everyone is free to make up their own mind on which direction to take. As it turns out I have a conventional glass scale and DRO setup on my lathe and it works great.
Regards,
Mark
My ducks don't make noises like currawong!
Stavros
Those whistling ducks are really pretty. They get their name from the whistling sound their wings make when they take off.
Regards,
Mark
Just for fun Mark you could have saved a lot of hand cranking if you had set the hole pattern at a 45 start angle.Do the Maths.
OK, I'm thinking it would still be three moves albeit shorter moves. I guess I just went with the defaults to show how easy the setup was with TouchDRO.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Even easier in the end.Once the first position is reached diagonally you only move one axis each time to move around the square and yes a much shorter distance ( 91.924mm ).What I don't understand is why watching your video made me realise that in the first place.
Keep up the good work as I enjoy your videos.
whistling, cause they dont know the words :D
Ha ha! But actually, their wings make a whistling sound when they take off. They are really pretty ducks and not normally seen as far south as where we live.
Regards,
Mark
bluetooth and android?
no thanks
W T F, TouchDRO is 100% Chinese, all ESP32 made in Shanghai with the scales made in Shenzhen, even the PCB was fab'ed in China ffs. What is this dude talking about... so funny.
That's a bit harsh. The developer of TouchDRO lives in the USA. Yes, he is using Chinese made hardware but then, so does just about every other manufacturer of electronic devices. In my view, Yuriy deserves credit for developing an alternative to the standalone, generic DRO using 7 segment displays. The app (not made in China) has recently been upgraded with lots of new features and that is the reason why I chose to use TouchDRO on my Bridgeport mill. If you purchase a Chinese made standalone DRO you are stuck with whatever operating system that was originally packaged with it. For balance, I use a standalone, Sino (Chinese made) 7 segment display DRO on my lathe so I have personal experience with both platforms. In short, there is a lot more going on with the TouchDRO platform than just the ESP32 and the PCB.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Nah, ya know what's harsh? the click bait utilizing the racial/nationalistic element. We all know what you've done here.
@@gtcollection6933 Whatever!
Hello Mark,
Thanks for this video... It really does help in deciding which way to go on the DRO front.
Take care
Paul,,
Do, please, share the bird bath build Mark. Thanks. Mike
Yes, but I'm not showing any close ups of my rubbish welds.
Regards,
Mark
Lol Mark. I'm sure they're not that bad. Just turn up the wire speed and amps a bit and go slowly and weave :-)
You're hilarious! I hope to be like you when I grow up. Great Video!
I watched your video when you installed the iGaging readers.
Now watching this video I think that I will do the same only a lot smaller,
on my mini mill X2 Seig.
Thank you, keep making videos.
Lee
I would like to make an industrial feeder for my local Raven population.
What did you mean by flickering type setup?
With the earlier version of the Touch DRO bluetooth adapters there was an issue where the numeric display would not settle on a particular digit. It would randomly count either side of the actual dimension even though the read head on the scale was not moving. The next version of the board mostly solved that issue by averaging five samples from the read head. In the video you can see the Z axis readout jumping around even though I wasn't touching the machine. It is mostly to do with the nature of the capacitive scales and not the actual TouchDRO bluetooth adapter. I replaced my original board with the updated version and now the display is rock steady.
Regards,
Mark
I see that touch fro has had many feature updates since its inception.
Do you think there would be interest in an in depth tutorial video that goes through all these features for those who have no training to fall back on, explaining tool of sets, all the zeroing options etc etc?
That is the issue though with trying to make in depth tutorials. As the software evolves, the tutorials become obsolete or maybe misleading. I know that Yuriy (Mr TouchDRO) has made a lot of very good videos and they are available on his website. I believe he has made them available in different languages and with subtitles. I go back to them every now and again for guidance.
Regards,
Mark
Nice demo Mark. Thanks for the video.
Great video. Nice coverage. Nice set up. Mahalo for sharing! : )
About 10 sec into your introduction, the third display down, seem to glitch.
Yes, the capacitive scales tend to cause the digital displays to flicker. The later version of the TouchDRO app has a digital filter that mitigates the issue but I have since changed over to glass scales. The capacitive scales were a bit of a disappointment and they weren't reliable enough. I guess you could tolerate them as a sort of entry level solution and they are relatively cheap and easy to set up but I couldn't rely on them 100%. The glass scales are great and I get rock solid readings from them. I am also using the beta version of the app which has a lot of CAD like tools built in. I think the beta testing version will go to public release soon.
Regards,
Mark
Must feel great to have another shop improvement checked off the list? ........ And one that tickled the nerd bone too is always a big plus. Thanks for summarizing the thought process and considerations. 👍👍😎👍👍
I loaded this app just to play around with (no mill, YET). It seems perfectly functional.
When installing Servo type power feed units on a BP or clone consider installing one on the Z axis for the knee. Not sc much for machining but moving the knee up or down. I I stalled them on our Bridgeports and clone and they payed for them selves in about 4 to 6 months maximum just in time saved in manhours.
About the magpies. Yes they seem to be proper bastards. My wife was watching that movie about the woman from NSWs that was paralyzed in Thailand and the magpies sure were in that.
I have one of those Chinese dro boxes with glass scales on my mill .. the menus are obtuse at best and very frustrating... but you got too love the manual.. it describes buttons not on the box, the table of contents list functions not in the manual or on the control box, and the box has functions not in the manual .... oh ya it written in chinlist with French and German grammar.
I am just waiting for Yuri to re-stock the interface for glass scales to install a Touch DRO.. i think I will put igang scale on my horizontal mill ...
Good job we would do that in Germany on a FP4 NC. In Sydney they already had CNC in 1987.😁
They better should not mix up this mashines one day they are self employees.
Wow. Attacking birds. There’s a movie in that somewhere.
Hmmmmmm........after 8 months of having it on my bench top manual mill I wouldn't be without it.....I don't know how I existed before the fit up, it opened up a whole new window of accuracy........I much prefer the glass scales, the display is much clearer and steadier.......fitting 3 axes was a 4 hour job and quite easy.
The main benefit that I found with any sort of DRO is the elimination of backlash issues in micrometer dials. I learned how to machine parts by taking backlash into consideration but with a DRO of any type you don't have to worry about it.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Exactly right........the ability to walk up to a reading in any direction without having to take up the backlash is one thing I treasure and not having to count the in between markings on the dial is treasure too.
Thanks for the video, even that I am late to the party.
Looks good, I see the advantage of the touch screen.
How about dirty fingers on the screen?
My phone is quite sensible to that 🙂
I have the Chinese LCD type 4 axis DRO, it does have the summing function you mention, they just don´t show it in the ads, in fact it has a lot of functions they don´t show, I think the software is very much the same as the touch DRO, but off course the screen is smaller and no touch screen.
I haven't had any problems with the screen getting dirty enough to cause any malfunctions. At the time I was gearing up to purchase the TouchDRO system, the Chinese LCD DRO's were still fairly new and there wasn't a lot of technical information about them and very few users had posted anything on TH-cam. There was however, a lot of tutorials and published resources for TouchDRO. I did eventually replace the scales with 5 micron glass Sino scales and they have worked flawlessly. I would now consider the capacitive scales as an entry level system.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Ok thanks, I see why more and more go for the touch DRO, I like the big screen as well.
I might try it at some point, I allready have the glass scales, so it would be an easy swap I guess. Cheers.
Yet another great video Mark. Love your content!
Hey, I picked up one of those DROs you installed, put it on my laser. Very nice.
Stepping your thumbnail game up like a man a 1/3 your age.
Thanks for that. I had fun doing that one.
Regards,
Preso
looks like a good addition ...will fit one to my kondia mill, thanks
I nearly bought a Kondia. They're made in Spain I believe. Evidently they are one of the better Bridgeport clones.
Regards,
Mark
Nice chat Mark, I enjoyed it very much, and the interest is because I have those iGaging units already. I would gladly trade my snow for some of your heat right now, so you go enjoy a cold one for me, cheers!
Be careful what you wish for.... we had temps up in the mid 30's today (that's C) and our chickens were really stressed. My wife had to put a bucket of water in their pen so they could cool off. However, I can drink more beer than usual and explain to my wife that, like the chickens, I need to avoid heat stress.
Regards,
Mark
It's easy to shorten glass scales. I have a video on it. You only need a couple tools.
I have seen lots of approaches to shortening glass scales. I suspect it's not for the faint hearted though. There seems to be plenty of sizes to choose from though.
Regards,
Mark
Nice informative video. Thanks for taking the time to document the money difference between the two approaches. I think in a previous video you thought the touch system was easier to install, is that correct? I’m interested in an industrial bird feeder design that can keep out magpies, how in the world? I am 10 minutes North of Seattle and it is about 4:00pm dark, 40 degrees F and raining, rain is forecast for next 7 days and in reality until this time next year.
The iGaging scales are definitely easier to install but the trade off is the reduced resolution. TouchDRO is really just an alternative to the traditional DRO consoles. I did actually finish off the bird bath today but it wasn't designed to keep the magpies out and I shouldn't really give the impression that "our" magpies are actually psycho killers. We never have a problem with them attacking us since they can nest far enough away from the house. In urban areas they are a bit of a nuisance due to them having to make their nests close to houses and roads. You don't make the Seattle weather sound too inviting. The last time I was there my wife and I had absolutely perfect weather for the three days we were there. Mind you, that was in late summer.
Regards,
Mark
Very helpful video. I am thinking about using TouchDRO vs other. I agree that having that cryptic display on the standard DRO's is crazy in this day and age.
Glad it was helpful! The app has recently been updated and there are lots of new features like tool tables and probe support. This was one of the things that I found attractive about TouchDRO. You aren't stuck with a set of built in features.
Regards,
Mark.
@@Preso58 You mentioned the flickering of the digits, and I saw it in the video. Was that because of the type of scales you used? Or was it noise from the Bluetooth connection between the scale adapters and the android device? I.e. will glass scales flicker like that?
@@KevinToppenberg It was to do with the capacitive scales. They behave quite differently to a regular glass scale. For what it's worth, I changed out all the capacitive scales on my mill to 5 micron glass scales. The flickering digit thing went away immediately. There is a setting in TouchDRO which averages up to five positions for each axis and it does help to reduce the flicker from capacitive scales but I had other issues with the capacitive scales that made the position reporting unreliable. It was probably caused by a noisy electrical environment which would occasionally cause one axis to misreport it's position. If you didn't see it happen you would ruin a part very quickly. It only happened very occasionally but I couldn't trust it so I took the pain and bought the glass scales. I think the capacitive scales are a low cost, entry level solution but TouchDRO is compatible with 1 micron glass scales and I think that is the premium solution.
Regards,
Mark Presling
Hey Preso....your laconic Aussie Style is doing our country proud...loving the workshop & equipment improvements...cheers Rodney down in Mexico (Melbourne)
P.S. have you done a complete workshop tour?...I started my apprenticeship at GMH Fishermen's Bend on a Colchester....would love a walk around with the story of how you obtained each machine...
I should really do a back story for the Colchester since it was acquired in rather unusual circumstances. It literally fell off the (side) of a truck! I have resisted the urge to do a workshop tour since it isn't always the neat environment that you might see on the videos. Generally, I shift the mess from place to place as I set the camera up. However I will take you suggestion on board. Thanks for the kind comments.
Regards,
Mark
I may be mistaken, but I think there could be a simple software fix for the flickering that could also increase precision and improve accuracy (depending how the scales work I guess)... It's called dithering, basically just adding high frequency noise to the signal which gets averaged out before being displayed. Obviously the app developer would need to do this.
There is a setting in the TouchDRO app that averages five readings as the scale reader approaches a stop and you can enable this on any axis. The other thing you notice is that there are "transient" readings that show briefly but the bluetooth adapter is capable of recognising these and ignoring them. They still show on the app but they don't disrupt the final reading. Yuriy is making updates available for the app and that's one of the things that attracted me to the TouchDRO system.
Regards,
Mark
Just ordered a touch dro unit. I already own a Ditron LCD 2 axis unit I picked up last year when DROPROs blew out their inventory for $59 shipped on ebay. Went back for a 3 axis today and prices are well above a touch dro unit assuming you have an old tablet or phone plus you get a 4th axis option and or RPM and tool setter input. Would liked to have seen the cheaper unit still available without the Bluetooth module but it's still an OK buy at $99 shipped without 3d printed case.
I agonised for a long time over which way to go with the scales for my Bridgeport. At the end of the day it was the ability to sum the Z axis that did it for me. If I could offer one bit of advice it would be to mount the scales on insulating standoffs. I used aluminium and I still have occasions when the DRO intermittently resets itself when I turn the spindle motor on or off. Evidently, there is some interference that is caused by the switching in the motor contactor.
Regards,
Mark
Hey Mark. Awesome video, as always. Just the right amount of detail. Very informative.
One question: Have you found any drawbacks to using the Tablet as opposed to a dedicated DRO display? Charging, on/off, ease of use, etc.?
I just found a very good reason NOT to use some import DRO displays. I purchased one for my milling machine two years ago and was very happy with it, so I just purchased another one for my lathe. SAME brand and SAME model. Turns out that the software has been updated and the arrow keys on the new one function backwards. IE: Up arrow is 4,3,2,1, etc., and the Down arrow is 1,2,3,4, etc., which is extremely frustrating. I am constantly pushing the "wrong" arrow key. So I am going with Touch DRO soon. Thanks very much, Mark. Regards.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge since I made that video and I really should make an update video on TouchDRO and the tablet.
Without going into much detail, I scrapped the iGaging scales and fitted 5 micron glass scales. The capacitive scales proved to be just unreliable enough to make me doubt the readings that TouchDRO was giving me. The glass scales, although more expensive and being more difficult to fit are 100% reliable and repeatable. Since I made the video, there have been some major upgrades in terms of new features in TouchDRO. I was beta testing the new version for Yuriy and I found some issues with the bluetooth connection on my tablet. This has now been addressed and I believe it has been fixed. There are also new features like tool tables, touch probe support and improved interfaces for data entry etc. This was one reason I went with TouchDRO since upgrades are free and they add lots of functionality to the interface.
One issue I have found with using a tablet is that they tend to die after about three to four years. I am currently using my wife's old Samsung Galaxy Tab and the battery fizzled out so I bought a new one which revived it. However, leaving it connected to the charger makes the battery swell inside the case and I can now see a noticeable bulge in the screen. It does take an bit longer to start the tablet and connect to the TouchDRO adapter but if I am going to use the milling machine I just start everything before I start setting up the job in the machine. Shutting down is a four step process rather than just flicking the switch on the back of the DRO (which I use on my lathe). but again, I just do it right at the end of the day when I am cleaning up.
Overall, I am happy with TouchDRO and I only use about 25% of the features that are available for most milling tasks. The other tools are there if I need them though.
Regards,
Mark
Hello Mark
I am working on a Bridgeport clone and having problems with the two axis DRO. I thought it would be nice to add Z to the mix. remembered seeing you video, did some looking around found Yuriy lives just down the road a few miles. It's a small world. Also not too far from Boring Oregon.
Having the Z axis summing capability at a relatively budget price was what swung it for me and TouchDRO. Maybe Yuriy hides his light under a bushel as they say. I would not have known about his project if one of my subscribers hadn't pointed it out to me.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for sharing! I like how you're dealing with the heat while I'm dealing with snow fall. Grass is always greener.
Both are extremes! Neither are particularly comfortable.
Regards,
Mark
You can absolutely shorten glass scales. I happen to have 3 that I have shortened between my mill and lathe. You just pack them with foam, cut all of the aluminum then score the glass all around with a dremel and snap them. The you drill a few holes for the end cap
I have seen it done but I am a bit of a cowardy chicken when it comes to that sort of thing.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 Breaking glass can be scary, but it is easy if you practice, by cutting it few times before you get to the final length. The pain is to drill and tap those 4 holes to secure the end feature. 👍👍👍👍
I bought this LCD/TFT type of DRO about a year ago for just 299 USD with 3 custom length glass scales included (any size up to 1200mm). For me this was a no brainer. The graphical UI is really good. I wouldn't prefer touch stuff, since most of the time you have coolant, oil or other stuff on your fingers. I would going crazy cleaning the display all the time.
What you are describing was going to be my first choice however we pay a lot more here in Australia and it's either an import or something double the price from Europe or the USA. There are some other benefits of using an Android device that I didn't mention on the video such as it's smaller footprint. light weight and it's very slim compared to the LCD/TFT consoles. You can also run other apps on it like a calculator, feed and speed charts and threading databases.
TouchDRO also displays real time feed rates as you move along any axis.
Regards,
Mark
Just what I needed, thanks!
I thought i had seen all the videos from Eccentric engineering but can’t recall the trick with the hose ! Looks like my garden hose is about to get shorter - Oh well i suppose at least it is for a good cause and not some little mongrel chopping it up to make a bong 😂
Now if you really want to sink your teeth into some electronic trickery have a look at the electronic lead screw series by Clough42 and never have to fiddle around with change gears again ! Now if we could only get the electronic lead screw set up to talk to the touch dro app for a lathe you would have one slick set up !
I have been watching the series by Clough42. He is doing an amazing job. I think we are going to see a lot of convergence over the next few years with regard to embedded software and motion control. Very exciting indeed. The trick with the rubber hose and the clamps was shown on Gary's Instagram. It was just a short video and some photos but it works a treat.
Regards,
Mark
Mark, I think I may eventually add a TouchDRO to my mill drill and I really like the tip about placing a rubber hose between the table and the clamp. When you use the MDF(?) backer board, is it flat enough "as-is" or do you need to face it first?
Bob, the spoil board was some 35mm thick chipboard counter top. It was flat enough as is given that the plates were for a welded steel structure for my garden.
Regards,
Mark
Birbs!!
I own that Ditron display. It does include Z summing.
Thanks for letting me know. I tried and failed to find out myself but surprisingly, for such a useful feature it isn't mentioned on any of the Ebay listings.
Regards,
Mark
Another great video. The visual representation on Touch DRO is worth it especially for folks like me who can't visualize abstract concepts.
I am very much a visual learner. If you show me a map I can get from A to B no problem. If you give me a verbal list of instructions I will be lost after the first turn. One of the skills we had to learn as teachers was to identify which students learned best using visual cues, which needed verbal reinforcement and which kids learned best by doing or role playing.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks for the comparison and demonstration. I was thinking this might be a good match for my cheap Grizzly mill but I have a feeling that flicker would drive me crazy. I'll just stick to the dials for now. I'm looking forward to the power drawbar video though!
I do believe that the flicker issue can be reduced or eliminated by running the bluetooth adapter with a battery. I haven't tried it though.
Regards,
Mark
Thanks Preso ... get that coldie down ya pronto!
Absolutely, but I only drink beer on days ending in "Y"
Regards,
Preso
Take those iGaging scales apart and solder a capacitor between Vdd and ground. It'll smooth out 95% of the readings jumping all over the place.
I soldered a tiny 4.7uF cap between the bare Vdd test point on the board and then scraped a clean ground near one of the screws. It takes about 5 minutes and will make your life so much better.
That's interesting. I believe that most of the flicker is caused by ground loops in the power supply. I have been meaning to try it out just using a battery instead of the switching power supply. I might your solution by Yuriy and see what he thinks.
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 That's not correct. The IC inside the scale itself samples the capacitive sensors (2 for quadrature encoding) then sends it through the cable as a 21 bit serial datastream. No analog to digital conversion is done at the TouchDRO. So long as the read head itself has a smooth power supply it can accurately take samples. A capacitor will help achieve this.
@@joels7605 OK, thanks for clearing that up. I will try it and let people know if it works out. If I can get rid of that flicker I will be one happy dude! So, just to be clear, are we talking about a 4.7uF electrolytic, negative side to ground or a common ceramic capacitor?
Regards,
Mark
@@Preso58 I grabbed 4.7uF electrolytics because that's what I had on hand that would fit inside the plastic case, negative side to ground, positive to Vdd. Ceramics might be a better choice. From the factory there's only one tiny little surface mount capacitor right next to the IC and I don't think it does a lot.
The test points on the board are silk screened right by the USB plug (there's a micro USB port inside the case). You'll have to make your own ground. I just scratched clean a bit of the ground plane by the screw nearest to the test points, but the bare solder on the USB connector might be a good choice too. Once you take the cover off it really is like a 5 minute job. Before the capacitors three of my four axis jumped all over the place like crazy, even with the averaging filter enabled in TouchDRO. It was basically unusable. They're smooth as butter now with the averaging filter turned off.
Unforunately every 15 or 20 seconds it still does weird things. It'll read perfectly, then jump to like 1500 inches for a split second, then jump back to being perfectly behaved. I suspect that's a digital communication issue. If I ever get that problem sorted I'll report back. My money is on USB cables that are way too long but I'm not having much luck finding micro-USB to micro-USB to replace the factory ones.
@@joels7605 Thanks for the extra info. I'll give it a try.