DITCHING Ultima ELECTRONIC Ignition And INSTALLING POINTS On 1979 HARLEY Davidson SHOVELHEAD FXS 80
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.ค. 2022
- That's right. I'm ditching the Ultima single fire electronic ignition after it left me stranded in the middle of a busy highway and installing a set of points & condenser in it's place. I know for most it's not the most practical thing to do to replace electronic ignition for points on a Harley Davidson. But if it's an old Harley shovelhead; if you've got the patience then why not?
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13:38 to 13:45... I was wrong on how set the timing with a timing light. You want your rpms to be a 2200 to 2400 rpms; not 1000 to 1100 rpms.
45 years and never used one.
I remember on my old sportster it was 2000 rpm.
Had a 71 ironhead with a Mikuni round slide carb. Roll it thru 3 times with the enricher set, then take that off, turn key on and -- one kick/start. Loved that!! A bro taught me things like static timing, point gap( business card) and pushrod adjustment. . .should have quit the Church and kept the Chopper -- but that's another story! LOL 😪😉
I've got a 76 with a Mikuni round slide... was wondering if anyone had a method for starting it... yes, XLCH ...so, kick only. Thanks for your comment..helps me out a lot.
A story worth hearing !!
There's a two inch .018 feeler guage on my key ring next to the spare master link.
Old greybeard trick- always carry a book of matches in a sandwich bag. Three uses, burn oil from points, striker to clean points and lid is approximately 0.20 for setting gap.
I laughed at you kicking it till I had tears in my eyes now I know why back in the '70s I always rode a Honda and all the guys on the Harleys always told me be careful and don't let that kick back and break my thumb
Lol... That's funny. Just trying to keep it real and entertaining at the same time.
Man, I really felt the pain in my own knee when it kicked back on you; I know exactly how that felt. On the other hand, when you have that Shovel tuned just right and you can pull off a 1-kick start while people are watching you at the gas station there is no better feeling in that moment. Not many Shovels left on the road anymore. I'm glad to see you putting in the work to keep one on the road and out of the garage.
Welcome to the shovelhead world. It’s always an adventure and they’re a lot of fun to ride. Great video on the points install. Once you get the sequence on the kick start thing, she’ll start easier. I usually prime kick mine 3 times before I turn the key on and, she starts on the 4th kick. Have fun. You’ll find yourself on that shovel more and more.
I wait a few seconds til the carb fills up, one full twist of the throttle held open for a second or two, first kick almost every time. If it half fires or doesn't catch, turn it off, wick it wide open, two kicks to clear it out, close and fire it up on the third. Then get pissed wick it wide open and kick it til it roars.
Thanks for your comment/reply to my comment Saddle Tramp. A couple of more tips when installing points, is to gap your points at .020" not .018"...the reason being at .018" the Instant the point cam fiber wears, you're out of spec. At.020" your points gap can reduce from .020" to .019" to .018" as the point cam fiber wears giving you more longevity from your Super-Tune. The other tip is to put a Very Small dab/amount of Blue Loctite on the advance mechanism retaining screw/bolt tip and when installing it use a 9/16" wrench (box end) and just Snug it down. Snug is all you need to do! Torquing it down is Not advised...snap it off and you've just opened up a can of worms. I'll comment on My version of Super-Tune Timing points type ignition for the late model (1970-1984) Shovelhead on this post of yours soon. It's a Guaranteed One-Kick Super-Tune. Cheers, Rick B
I ran points in my 79 for years, used GMC 60's 250 six cyl parts. Had a lot of trouble with the weights. Switched to a DynaS ignition now and trouble free. The biggest thing I learned is they all break down eventually...
Everything breaks if you give it time enough.
Been riding mine for over 25 years never had a point issue.
Same here
Pulled mine out 25 years ago,never looked back,riding the same bike.I get mine at napa,I tell them I want points and condenser. for a 68 chevy 250 6 cylinder,they work perfect.
I'll have to remember that.
I think Harleys are hard on electronic ignitions. I have had my oem go out twice now. A friend of mine keeps a spare in his tool bag. Was thinking about going to ultima or s&s. Heard good things about both. If I ever get enough money it's going to get a Morris magneto so I will never have to worry about it.
Been running an ultima for ten years with no issues.
That’s what I’m talkin about! I went back to points in my 79, “long ago
and far away”. Best way to go for road repair.
My 77 has a Magneto, with points. Fixable..
I’m glad you took that step back into the Shovel era.
They were and still are,, Teachers,, you can fill in the blanks on all the different things you have learned on function and operation,,, and patience!
Can’t beat Old School ways!
Happy for you brother, doin a fine job 👊🧷
shadetrees shovelhead......wait WHAT?? give too much away??? what?? ...i feel Betrayed!! lol. when i was younger my dad took me to look at a bike for me. the guy had a couple of shovelheads that had kickers. my dad asked him about them , mainly how was they on starting. he laughed and said they would try to throw you over the handle bars if you wasnt careful lol. good vid
To be continued...
I felt the pain when that kicked back....My buddy had a Vincent Black Shadow. I went to fire it up and didn't use the compression release lever...I couldn't walk for 3 days.
I bet!
Thanks for showing the blooper . Points and static timing is where it's at . You can get points at Napa, anywhere in the country .....good luck
Love that ol shovel , it's the coolest bike you have.
Thanks! I agree.
My 78 shovel came with electronic ignition from the factory. I converted it back to points long ago and have no regrets. Converted it back to solids. Used a 12 volts test light for static timing. I do have kick and electric start, S&S Super B. Belt primary, chain secondary. Your video of this is how it really works kicking the bike over. Now that is realistic!!!!! Good Job.
Hello Saddle Tramp and your followers . I have actually electronic ignition on my Shovels , no problems with them now , but after watching your video , I will order a kit of points ignition when i go for a long ride. Happy 4 th july for all American patriots . Shovelhead : "inimitable, incomparable, irreplaceable " . Hello from France .
way to go amigo, i started a comment before the end of the vid' but 'lost' the link, but now watching to the end all the points were addressed. the one bit i would add from my original comment though is 'it's called engaging with life'.
they say 'to overcome adversity is to experience the full delight of existence'. not into getting tatt's but I may make an exception ; on my forehead, so i would see it in the bathroom mirror everyday as a reminder.
You took me back to some fond memories with this one. Made me remember some good ol' days sitting in the garage with some bros working on our scoots, drinking some beers mixed with some herbal medication, giving each other light hearted grief and keeping each others scoots running. Always had a get together in the garage about a week before heading out to Sturgis to get all the scoots ready. Always turned into a party with a keg and three or four grills loaded with steaks and ribs. Ahhh- the good ol' days.
You won't regret going to points. Just converted my Evo to points. Won't ever get stranded again 🤠.
Heck yeah, man.
I had an old greybeard school me to use singer sewing machine oil on my flyweights he said it is pure enough to clean with and just a bit on the felt wiper for the breaker cam
Agree100%
Dry slide machine oil is the same as singer oil
You did the right thing, brother! I've had a bunch of bikes in my time, and the ONLY ones that ever left me stranded on the side of the road with ignition problems had ELECTRONIC IGNITION. The whole idea behind running points is being able to get home. You can make a set of points out of a paper clip if you have to, but when a brain box ignition goes bad, it's bad and there ain't no fixin' it on the side of the road! It's also good insurance to carry an extra condenser and points set in your spares kit. I suggest a Standard Motor Products Blue Streak points and condenser set. I've always had good luck with them in my Harley's, my tractors and small engines. They make a quality product. Now, if you're stuck out and just need to get home, you can run a Chevrolet 6-cylinder points set in your Harley, and McCormick tractor points sets will work if you trim down the width of the rub block. I also always carry a spare coil bolted to the frame in an inconspicuous spot. I've never needed to use it, but it sure is comforting to know that it's there!
The only Harley ignition that ever failed on me in the past 30 years were points. "But you can fix points at the side of the road". No - not when the advance weights disintegrate.
Good for you, I've rode Harley's for 51 years. Now all they care about is selling a bike to a doctor or lawyer for 30 to 40 thousand dollars. It's a shame the brand has gone this way. Just like John Deere has done you can't touch them yourself. They even tried to raise the price of used bikes so they could charge more for new bikes. I'll still ride Harley but never anything newer than an EVO engine. Love your videos dude.
Thanks, man. You're my homie. We're in the same boat.
You may be correct on all counts. I bought a 1998 Electra Glide brand new for $14,500. Only new bike I bought, or will ever buy, and I still have it. Want nothing to do with the new stuff and still have a 3g phone.
@@GJM866 My electra is same year
@@GJM866 Keep the 1998 EVO but you may have to ditch the 3g phone. HaHa
I've oowned 13 Harleys over 45 years of riding. My current scoot is a 98 Evo and has been the most dependable of them all.
For those that don't know we live in the south. Rain isn't cold nor an issue. It's still 80+ degrees when it rains. Lol. Tis the season. Safe riding bud. See you out there. Thanks for another awsome vid.
Right on man!! I changed mine to points a few years ago, once I learned what it needed to kick start it always starts with two or three kicks. Works way better than the electronic ignition. 😀
Heck yeah!
And easier to figure what's going on,and easy to buy and change.
Great video. At least you have the know how to attempt the project, and know how to figure out when it doesn't go right. You are good. Stay safe buddy.
Thank you, Joe! I try, to say the least.
honestly I'd keep the ultima ignition and keep a second one in the saddle bag as a spare. The Ultima gives great performance, mileage and strong spark as well as programmable spark curves. Changes out in 20 minutes if you keep a spare and they are dirt cheap. I've used one in my EVO for 80,000 miles no issues but I do keep a spare.
A hotter spark yes... That's probably why Harley went to electronic ignition when they came out with the 80ci shovel. Makes sense... Bigger engine displacement... Bigger spark. Honestly it has me considering going back, because I think that's why I'm having a hell of a time trying to kickstart this bike.
@@SaddleTrampTV Absolutely.... the Electronic ignition will make kick start easier and Like I said it will never leave you stranded if you keep a spare cone module in your tool bag.
Thank you for this I have a 72 shovel that has been sitting forever that I'm trying to get running smooth again. The kicking and kicking and then kick back I felt that dude LOL my ankle is killing me. HAHAHA You don't know how helpful this video is though. Talking about long period of time where the bike sits and then oil draining into the bottom end and gushing out that bottom breather is stuff not everyone knows. This bike I have sat for years and it just pissed oil and fuel (stuck float I think). Thank you for sharing all of the information!
I cringed on the kickback. Brought back memories of my '65 XLCH with a magneto. Ouchie!! Cool vid.
Great real time video! Love this old stuff, thanks for posting!
Great looking Shovel Corey that hasn't gone to Japan. Glad your starting to Dig it.
Awesome showing all the kicking...most guys or ladies wouldn't have put that in
Just trying to keep it real.
Way beyond anything I'd try but great to see another wonderful success story to start my day!!! Way ta go, Cory!!
I remember a couple of times when I was trying to set the points on my bike I ended up with a quarter size brews on my foot where the kicker rests. I still have a dream of building a CB750 kicker in a cruiser frame with a huge gas tank for road tripping have fun and stay safe enjoy whatever you want to ride
Awesome cast...way to bring the old Harleys back to life.
Great video. I’m thinking of doing that to my 1988 road king. Just thinking. Nice music too. I love it.
Hey Corey, always good to see your wrenching videos. I am an Old Timer and points were just a way of life for a long time. On my car I burnished or replaced them, then set them with timing light every other oil change. I had a good straightaway where I could check my top speed and if it was 10 mph slow I knew the points or sparkplugs were the issue. Life was not always so easy but it was simple! One time my simple diagnosis was incorrect and it turned out to be a stopped up air filter (50k miles on it). Still something simple although the filter did not look dirty, but that was the fix. In those days we were more frugal and would only replace something when it absolutely had to be replaced. Times are so much better now in some ways, worse in others! Keep that shoveled rolling man! Later Saddle Tramp!
A lot of great information here. I appreciate you filming this. I am, maybe foolishly, looking at a later shovel...
Tramp, as a suggestion, don't straddle the bike. On my 76 FXE I would put me left knee on the seat, then kick through and hold. No kick back. With your body on the right the side you'll get more body lift. If it doesn't interfere with rear pipe get a straight kicker arm. That bent arm sucks.
Always great to watch you make something work. I know many people who when their bike breaks down they just go buy another new one. You are one of the true American Bikers! Ride Safe
Thank, man. Thanks so much.
Haven't worked on old bikes. But I have been wrenching over 50 years. I miss tuning a engine by eye and ear. Very cool, rock on.
I have always loved the pure honesty of your Videos!!! That Kick back has happened to many of us!! it Hurt just to watch it!!!
Thanks, Kevin
Coming from an era that did not have buttons to start your bike the part of the video where you were trying to start the bike with the kicker brought back so many memories. I have issues with my right hip from kick starting bikes. Be kind to your body use the button. Had a '76 fx stroker that I put an electric start on. Used the kicker when the battery was down. With points the bike will run with very low voltage. Thanks for the video, Corey.
another very cool video, Saddle Tramp!
Thanks, my friend. Always good to see you
That was a cool video man... Well done. The kickstart had me crackin' up, I had to show my wife that part... Lol. I was headed to the comments to give you kuddos for the one kick start when you suddenly revealed the truth.
Yeah, I just had to be real about it.
Noticed you continuity tested for your static timing I no it might be trivial but I use a test light and set it at the point where light is at it's brightest. I run Ultima programmable ignition in my 82flhs and love it I carry a points setup in a freezer bag in my toolbag in my saddle bag. If I have a failure I'll install it in my sleep lol 😆 thanks for the video. Ain't no head like a shovelhead
I'm so glad you showed how it really happened. God bless you brother! You said it correct, it's in your power to fix it yourself and roll on down the road brother. A powerful statement that is very true. I work on my own machines . The only thing I don't do is balance my flywheels. Everything else is done by me. Today it's almost impossible to get a flywheel balanced. I enjoy your videos God speed. Ron .
liked the dixieland jazz music, from a west coast owner and rock n roll musician play guitar and bass everything from johnny cash to metallica and the scoop on replacing electronic ignition
Always catch good tips watching your videos. (HD point cam-set change in 77) Already knew about the "kickback danger" with off set timing. (My buddy's sporty got me good!) So your not alone there. Thanks for sharing in your adventures and just being you.
77... Thanks for that info.
Loved the content. The real kick sequence is GOLD 😁
Thanks for watching! Glad you could dig it.
I personally hate points. Have a 58 panhead and an 80 shovel. Literally melted the points in traffic with the shovelhead and it stranded me. For me switching to electronic has made my life much easier.
That's my own experience, with both.
Right on man! Enjoyed this video immensely! Hey man, seems like everyone has an opinion and just can't tolerate a different one. Your Bike, Your Choice and you get kudos for that. Been riding a 1980 Sturgis the past 22 years, so have a little idea what your talkin about, although knock on wood my electronic has never failed me. Cool that you went back a few years and opted for the points!!
Thanks saddletramp going to convert my shovel back to points. Keeping it basic mechanical the way it was engineered is better than the electronic crap they have now a days
Old school is so cool, I thought you were SuperMan when you showed it started on the first kick but then you really showed us how long it took. Very cool video Tramp..
Just keeping it real
@@SaddleTrampTV same happened to me, rebuilt top end and carby ... Started 1st kick then wouldn't start unless I hit the button!.. Shovelhead syndrome!
Been there, done that. Had a few of those kick starts end up like that. I always used a timing light. I had a good teacher to show me about my shovelhead. I was lucky.
Points work just fine. 😎
Just keep the fly weights lubed.
Will do
You're right it's a lot easier to be able to fix it right on the spot and get going again good to see another video thanks
Welcome to the Shovelhead world. Still running points, was a one or 2 kicks with a Delorto pumper. Have Mikuni VM now. Wife hates me kicking, electric start works good! Stay Safe and ride on!
I’m with ya on OEM parts if possible
I haven't been watching much YT videos lately, been starting to try and play "Catch Up". I enjoy your content and information on the earlier model bikes
Thanks, man!
I'm glad you showed what really took place 😁😎🇺🇲👍
My newer computer driven electronic ignition has left me stranded a few times. My old ironhead with points has never left me stranded. Just file the points and down the road I go
Right on!
I'm still voting for a magneto that is a pretty reliable source of spark..
You're inspiring me to run back the clock. 👍
Damn that looked like it hurt. Great job and getting it back up and running. Thanks for the content.
Yeah... Didn't feel too good. Thanks, man!
Points, condenser, battery and coil, can't beat it.
Way to go,better spark,more snap,easy fixed
Felicidades amigo sigo tus vídeos y siempre aprendo algo nuevo, se agradece tus consejos. Muchas gracias y sigue con el canal que nos ayudas mucho con tus experiencias y pruebas del buen funcionamiento de una Harley Davidson.
Gracias, Angel
Great video and ouch on the leg .one of my bikes kicked back so hard one time I was on crutches for 3 weeks. Going to see cost on points for evo .
Yikes, man! I can believe it!
I got get me an old shovel that’s awesome brother
New sub! Liked
Thanks, man! Welcome!
Very cool to see it running again. Hate it kicked back so hard on you as I can tell when it did that it hurt. Like you said there a lot more enjoyment when your able able to work on something and get it running yourself.
Yeah, Was going to name it Beetlejuice, but I think the exorcist might be more fitting. Lol... not really.
Oh ps a little stiffer springs brings idle down faster / positive
Noted
The way you set the timing works, it's a messy job but you can use a timing light through the hole. Much more accurate, when the timing is right a stock shovelhead won't kick back with the kickstarter. It will start easier with the electric starter also. The original service manual details how to do it.
Congrats! When it starts, the pain melts away. If your oil is ending up in the motor, you have a leaking check ball valve in in the oil pump if I remember correctly. Bike sounds great!
Yeah, the leaky check valve appears to be a common thing. My 2012 heritage did that too.
Another awesome video! One big part of riding for me is being self reliant. These old bikes make you learn and always be prepared with parts and tools. It's a good feeling to know you can handle a breakdown. Luke 14:28-30 KJV
Oh that kick back brought painful memories of the past.
Sorry if I gave you flashbacks.
@@SaddleTrampTV lol all good memories, Any time with a bike is a good time. great Content.
well done! everybody I know tells me to go electronic in my 79 i use points its the best way. And your are right the electronic will leave to stranded. just a tip use a high quality condenser and not a cheap bit of junk the condenser will be the first thing to let you down
I know your never going to see this but I want you to know that truly appreciate your humility. Your not out to make yourself out as someone you aren’t. You show it real and how it is. And I as a young man who is starting to dabble in the world of working on Harley’s and ride them trying to follow and learn from my dad ( avid shovelhead enthusiast, with decades of knowledge on them ) I understand how overwhelming it can get at times. I Pray you keep being you and being as real as you can be. That is what separates you from the rest of the “know it alls” thank you for your entertainment and on top of that information. Keep the rubber on the road brother!
Thank you, Jayson. Thanks so much.
Extra flyweights & springs along with the thin points cam bolt in tool bag wouldn't be a bad idea...Had flyweight springs break, flyweight holes worn to ovals, thin dia. cam bolt w/ 9/16 (IIRC) head snap, on both ironhead & shovelhead...Whole setup doesn't take up much space...Points ignition can be extra work & something else to check periodically but road side repairable...Have one of those AMF era clear plastic timing light plugs = one BRIGHT timing light required to see the marks thru it ...> Your multi kick "outtakes" reminded me of an old Hal Robinson comic illustration, = thin build biker guy , skinny left leg but right leg all bulked up like a power lifter ... :-)
Noted
You can't beat simple. I've got a mag on my Panhead and it's the same thing keep extra and it's unstoppable. Had my generator quit on me and had no clue since my bike will run without a battery.
Right on!
@Joseph Funk
I've got a Joe Hunt magneto on my 50 Pan and I've experienced the same thing. PANHEADS FOREVER ✌
@@bigiron8831 it's a great insurance policy against a litany of things that can go wrong. As long as you have your kicker your getting home. Love my Panhead that's for sure. I'm glad every time I hear there's still more on the road happy riding.
Dixieland fan? My grandfather Robert Ringwald was pretty well known Dixieland guy. I grew up going to all the jazz festivals as a kid and hated it until I got older. He passed last year unfortunately . Love the bike and the vids man. Subbed.
Hey thanks, man!
I'm a huge fan of these videos
Thanks, man!
Instead of points as a spare back-up, I just keep a spare module and coil. I never needed them, but in case of trouble it will be a no brainer job to swap either.
In my early riding years I also had a Shovel ... I tried many points sets. The only ones decent were accel's with the micro chip condenser straight on the poits. I am now 53 and suffer from heavy artrose, so my kickstarting points days are over. Just keep a spare module and save on medical bills, You have nothing to prove.
Ride safe !
Shovelhead love, an ongoing relationship of love and hate, not really more like patience. Glad you got her going, sounds good.
Patience indeed!
When the ignition module went belly up in my 84 Sportster, I did the same thing. I replaced it with points and condenser. like you, we can fix it. The simplicity of points ignition. It does not advance as far as electronic, and it hurts hiway gas mileage a little, but it is simple. Easy to fix. And my Sporty actually ran better with the points ignition than it ever did with electronic.
Really cool video. My 99 Softail Custom still has the electronic ignition, but I may change it out soon. I like reliability which is I can fix it for a few bucks instead of over a 100 for a new module.
You the man Saddle Tramp. We do things our way which may not make sense to others.
Thamks, Jim.
Let people correct you all they want. As long as you have a way of getting things done and it works that’s all that matters. Keep gettin it bud. You take care and stay safe.
Twin Cam - Fuel injection for life. lol I was impressed until you limped off with a broke leg lol Great content brother!
Glad you enjoyed. Just keeping it real.
To set points to .020 use a .021 and a .019 feeler gauge , when the .019 feeler gauge goes in and the .021 will not the the gap is .020. It's called using a go, no go gauge. This way is repeatable and takes away the "feel".
Noted, man. Thanks!
I "invented" that nearly 50 years ago - when Snap On began making thickness gauges with .0005" steps ground on the end I would use the "half-thou" step of the .020" (.0195") as the GO and the half-thou step of the .021" (.0205" as the NO GO. You get .020" plus/minus .0005" for sure that way. The gauges show up brand new on Ebay for $25-$35 fairly often.
Stick with what you know. Be blessed
You had a plan to accomplish a task. We’re never to old to learn or to be schooled. You might not have gotten it right the first time but you in the word’s of (Adam Sandoval) You Stayed Stubborn and accomplished the task and got the job done. Kudos To You My Brother. As always Thank You and keep it coming. 👍✌️😎
Thank you, Mark!
Well done, amigo.
Great stuff brother. Thanks man for the message, Watching now👊🔥
Nice work Corey, nothing wrong with keeping it simple.
The hard part is learning the simple... For me at least.
@@SaddleTrampTV Lol, right on.
My left leg started hurting again watching the end. I had a 77 shovel. Electric start was junk, I abandoned in place. Once broke off the kicker arm. Lol
Keep ole school’n Tramp. God bless ya😎
That is a great running machine and I am Def entertained. As I know u r proud of your accomplishment ! B safe !
Thanks, Greg!
Thanks for making this video! Once I got a "modern" motorcycle, it freed me up to start converting my old EVO back to as old school as I can make it. So I've converted it to foot clutch and jockey shift, removed all unnecessary wiring, removed all gauges and indicators save for the oil pressure gauge, and next I'll be converting it to kickstart only with a points ignition and a magneto, and eliminating the battery completely. Is it practical? Hell no. But there's something about it that's just fun.
Can totally relate
Brother, your such a good guy that no matter what you run in your bike you'll be ok. The universe looks out for good souls. It grinds bad ones into the dirt. Early evo stock dual fire ignitions were pretty damn good. My buddy bobby has his from 86 still running. A simple solid state ignition and carry a spare. Or points and condenser and carry a spare! God speed friend. Ron
Thank you, Ron.
Awesome video Brother be safe out there 👍👊🏻
Thanks! Will do!