Ui24R using the RTA to tune a room
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ส.ค. 2017
- With the new RTA hold and the ability to display a channels RTA over the master EQ's it becomes much easier to tune speakers and rooms. The idea of this video is not to provide a comprehensive tutorial into room tuning but to introduce the concept and promote discussion between users about this subject.
I haven't got this instrument, but it is so clear on the principles of how to EQ a room. I cant think why this simple way of demonstrating it is so hard to find. Thank you very much!
A lifesaver as always. This machine was very well thought-through. I'm a new user and the more I learn it the more I love it. For everything I want to do, there is always a solution and a youtube tutorial. It doesn't get more professional than that.
Just to clarify, pink noise is played though the speakers and channel 3 is actually the measuring microphone.
Most, most, most helpful video, thank you! Just the exact example I have been looking for for quite a time! A like and subscription from me! Regards!
Very interesting 👌🏽 I think I will try this 😀
Great video. I am confused though about the routing. If I play the pink noise through my speakers it will first pass through the master channel and show up on the RTA. How do I avoid that? And with the fader of channel 3 down the mic signal will not show up on de master RTA. And you cant push the fader up because that will create feedback. Solution is to have the player output to an aux and connect the speakers to that?
Cómo puedo conectar la UI24R al smaart usando la tarjeta de sonido?
Can this do most of the stuff the dbx drive rack does? Same company and afs. Thanks.
What reference mic are you using?
Could you use a spectrum app like the KRK or RTA app on a iPhone or iPad to look at the spectrum frequencies on?
I had updated my Firmware, and then did this, the thing was I was then having an issue with my unit losing sound randomly , finally it just wouldn't boot right after trying things to stop it from happening, so I did Factory Reset and I'm not having any issues except RARE cases of Drop outs (like maybe twice since I reset about 6 months ago and started turning the volume down first and then shutting off (I hate that the switch is in a bad spot for this) it seems to help though, and I am not about to upgrade the firmware to possibly start having more issues as before, IS THERE A WAY TO DO THIS WITHOUT "CHANNEL RTA ON MASTER" Function/Option ?, AND also does the Pink noise mp3 HAVE to be on the UI24r or can it be played from my DAW through the UI24r ? Or from any other playing suorce for that matter ?
I wish it had the auto wizard like the drive rack. Or maybe it does?
I was wondering what the procedure for setting the proper gain staging level was in regards to setting "master level" MIX R and MIX L controls. I have powered PA speakers.
to get the most out of a digital system you want to run it as close as possible to 0 db on the meter scale, normally most run at -6 or so just to keep it in check you then adjust the anolog output to reduce the level as you require. Speakers should be on Unity gain so not to add more noise.
On my Ui24r I dont have ˝Channel RTA on Master GEQ¨ i only have channel rta on all outs. Please help
Thanks for this great tutorial!! Great stuff!
Unfortunately, I have a problem and I don't know if this is a bug or just a wrong setting that I don't see: I can see the RTA curve only on the Master EQ setting, it does not show up in the single channels. I can activate the RTA button, the level in the fader shows up, but the RTA curve is just not shown. Maybe this is a bug in firmware 3.0?
me too 3.3
@@romulocs6777 I had returned my unit and received a new one, it must have been faulty. Could not activate the RTA curve at all. With the new one, it works now.
@@7Boots thank you
Hey, why when I do changes to the Master Geq, I cannot see the changes on the analyser ? it looks like the Analyser is Pre Geq
I can not find "channel rta on master geq" on ui16...
Can custom master eq just for L or R ?
Hi great info. Can you tell me the largest usb stick that can be used with the Ui24R
I know some that use 128GB
THanks for the video - could you tell me wehre you place the microphone for best results. Thanks Tony
the room tuning microphone? if you are tuning for timing middle of the room. if it's for room EQ, several spots maybe better than just one as different areas of a room may sound different as well.
For tuning? best to do it in several locations, not just one and get an average done.
@@mix-record-connect9938……So in a band with five mics, should this process be done with each mic?
Lots of features. Lots of questions.
I assume that what you did here is in a music venue. Have you used this to tune a home studio? How did that work out?
RTA is used to tune a venue where you don't have control over the acoustic/absorption situation. It's generally not recommended for tuning a studio/listening environment.. Much better to "tune" your control room with bass traps and acoustic panels to get a well balanced frequency response in the listening position. Many near field studio monitors also have some built in EQ settings or big room/small room scenarios, mostly in the the bass spectrum.
Is this close to the steps you took to do this?
Using Pink Noise to Tune a Room (FOH)
1. Setup Reference mic on channel and place in middle of the room
2. Player set at -5.2DB
3. Play Pink Noise File
4. Gain on RTA Mic Channel at +30dB
5. RTA Mic Channel at -∞
6. Master set at -5.1dB
7. Check Mic Channel EQ
8. Turn on RTA
9. Switch to Master (Will show Graphic EQ)
10. Flatten the overall frequencies
11. Recheck with the Mic channel to view frequencies across the spectrum.
yes you can do that, certainly one way to achieve this if you are looking for a flat EQ
@@mix-record-connect9938……does the mic have to be placed in the middle of the room?
Ooh, me likey!
I got two thoughts about that: If you´re using GEQ for this kind of tuning, you´ll get massive phase issues on the sides of the filter. The proper way to do this specific kind of tuning would be to use a PEQ, because the phase will change only on the sides depending on the bandwidth. The second thought is, that to tune a system only by pink noise is nonsense. Try to go near the fohn curve and by listening to material you know to tune the pa to the room. Well, i´d like to buy a UI24, but if there is no PEQ available, this "system tuning" EQ does not satisfy my needs. Anyway: THANKS FOR THE VIDEO
The soundcraft UI series has both GEQ and PEQ on board
Hello! Can you please direct me to the video where you explain how to isolate a channel while using virtual sound check for talk back?
On ui16 is "channel RTA on all outputs". Is this same as " channel RTA on master GEQ"???
Same on the online demo interface. Have you got this figured out?
How do you set this up with firmware version 3.3?
I don't see the option: Channel RTA on Master GEQ
it's now called: "CHANNEL RTA TO ALL OUTS"
How loud do you have to make the pink noise coming out of the speakers?
Does not have to be incredibly loud but in reality you want to tune it at the level you are going to mix at.
Hi, I bought my Ui24r this month, I dont that feature "Channel RTA on Master Geq"
What should I do?
Maybe you should consider always upgrading to the latest firmware version.
Please also read the addendum document so the feature is clear to you.
Hello! Why you do flat pink noise instead white noise? Pink noise changes is -3dB/octave, white noise is 0db/octave.
(this is from several reference sources): it’s true that white noise has constant energy right across the frequency spectrum. But while this might make it useful for measuring audio equipment, it means it’s of no use for my mixing. Why? The human hearing system’s frequency response is not linear but logarithmic. In other words, we judge pitch increases by octaves, not by equal increments of frequency; each successive octave spans twice as many Hertz as the previous one down the scale. And this means that when we listen to white noise, it appears to us to increase in level by 3dB per octave.
A more ‘human-friendly’ distribution of energy results when we filter white noise so that it loses 3dB per octave (going upwards). Each octave then contains the same amount of energy as the next one - so it sounds naturally ‘balanced’. Well, this is precisely what pink noise is.
Thank you for answer! But human ear is like U-curve law with bottom on 1-2kHz, not 3dB/octave decrease law! Not pink noise but GREY NOISE.
Well sadly I just had Pink noise and that was the explanation I got.
I am unable to find "Channel RTA on Master GEQ" in the settings on firmware v2 or v3. Did it get moved somewhere else?
No it was not moved as far as I know.
@@mix-record-connect9938 I just checked the online demo. Doesn't appear to be where the video shows.
Hey Soundcraft, for all us Ui12 or Ui16 users, who are clearly not important since the Ui24 was released ... are you even going to provide the same ability that’s on the Ui24 to connect a Dell (or equivalent) touchscreen monitor, so we can too have a nice big touchscreen interface? I mean, I love having the same HDMI and USB ports on my Ui16 like the Ui24, especially when they are completely pointless and can’t be used .... high five guys 👍🏼
Corporate foam whippers gonna tell you to buy the Ui24 and be done.
Once a multinational like Harman buys up dozens of companies, things often fall through the cracks, if their corporate overlord's hunger for cash isn't directly served by some update.
I have an expensive SONY TV for 3 Years now - still waiting for the advertised PiP feature, that was supposed to come with a software update...
Yeah i was interested in getting a ui16 until i realized that the last update to this product was in 2018.....
The Ui12/16 were designed and built by another company and generally seem to have more issues and lower quality results compared to the Ui24r. Soundcraft designed the Ui24r in house and greatly improved upon the initial designs. It’s probably best to just forget about those two products, because Soundcraft seems to already have.
I understand changing the master EQ to tune the PA to the room acoustics. I don't understand why you would use the channel 3 GEQ and not the Master GEQ.
I think you misunderstood what is on the video, a channel does not have GEQ only outputs have GEQ, I am using channel 3 as an input for the RTA microphone.
@@mix-record-connect9938 where was this RTA microphone positioned in the room?
@@DeadOriginal It was just a test to show how to operate not specific positioning of the MIC.
Great
Nice
Are you sure MP3 is the right format for the pink noise? :)
You can use a WAV file, it won't make that much difference in this type of scenario.
Can Pink noise be played through the DAW doing the same EQ process using the mikes our singers use ?
No. Those microphones are not flat.
No offense but I had to turn up the volume on this video to double what I usually have just to hear you and you are giving a tutorial on how to run a sound system?
Dude you have a hearing problem.
The sound is ok.
Fine to me.
Can I use any Flat response mic for this ?
Sure.
Am I mistaken or doesn't pink noise reduce in amplitude as you go up in frequency. So if you used pink noise to tune a room flat like this then you would end up with a PA that has no low end.
It's a different story with white noise, which is the same amplitude over all frequencies.
You are right in what you say about the difference between Pink and White noise, but Pink noise is more attuned to how our ears and mind perceives sound, (Quote) it’s not that pink noise is calibrated to the human ear’s frequency response per se. It’s just calibrated to how we hear, which is very well grounded in math. Each time the frequency doubles we hear that as an octave. From one octave to the next we expect to hear an appropriate amount of sound energy (depending upon the program material), which is why we calibrate our audio systems to pink noise.
I use white noise to sweep a room with.
can you do this with the ui16 ?
you have RTA in Ui16 so you could use a similar method
Where would you place the rta mic in the room?
That depends on where you want to tune the room from. We generally would look at several location and take an average but the simplest way is in the best position for the PA.
This can work for tuning speakers for music band?
Yes it can
Sorry, but i dont get it. Why would you straighten out a pink noise curve? What is the point? Isnt he whole idea of the pink noise that it is tilted? White noise is flat on the other hand. Are you mixing up the concepts? Best, Peter
Can i use file with sweep signal instead of pink noise?
Yes you can use it but how will you remember what the signal input is?
Mix-Record-Connect Thought that hold rta can do.
Hello... Can i do the same thing on ui 16??
UI16 has RTA, you can still use a similar method to at least see what is happening in the room frequency wise
@@mix-record-connect9938 in this video you say that one of the important thing to do is to set "channel RTA on master GEQ" ON........ On ui16 is only "channel RTA on all outputs" and i wonder is this same thing as " channel RTA on master GEQ"??? .... Thank you
@@BoRiala050 this is a video about Ui24R not Ui16. Ui16 you can see an RTA that's about it
Can I use a condenser mic instead?
Only condenser can be used, and not every condenser but a measurement microphone, ECM8000, or any of that sort.
Please is now tutorial in Spanish Please please LatinoAmeria Thanks Peru
better off leaving your system alone….. This will not work. I really dont have the comment feed space to explain why. but yeah, no Dont do this people! or you will have a butt load of other issues.