For some reason I thought the ultimate reason for Paul and Leto's efforts was to create a humanity that was free to diaspora and evolve in every direciton possible. That way, humanity would be immune from prescience, a tool the could be used against them. Variety was the best insurance against exinction. Humanity up to then was a monogenome and waiting for a perfectly adapted threat to wipe them out.
In the original Frank Herbert series, yes! Plus, the Golden Path also required the breeding of the no-gene, the new genetic trait that would make humans immune to prescience. When the Ixian Hunter Seeker prescient machines would rise in the future, at least a few humans would survive, cloaked by their no-gene and sufficiently scattered and diverse.
Wow... just... wow. This summary makes me glad I never read Brian's books. They say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, but it rolled quite a ways downhill in this particular case....
Frank Herbert was a genius. Brian Herbert has the creativity and prose of a erotic romance author at a Dollar Tree and the media literacy of Tarzan. Of course he was never going to write as well as his father but it's apparent he fundamentally didn't understand Dune to begin with. At least Christopher Tolkien *got* LOTR.
....then the apple was kicked by a camel, fell into a thrash compactor, dumped in a tar pit, burned to ashes, and the smoke rose in the atmosphere and was disintegrated by solar radiation. I mean, in Brian's novels, there's a witch girl who takes a magic gem and turns into a goddess. So... Lolll
Hahaha let's just say Brian Herbert had a... unique... understanding if his father's work. The original books were so good, Brian is just a dirt stain on the side loll
Yeah, Daniel and Marty explicitly tell us what they are, super evolved face dancers, that have become like Super Kwisatch Haderachs after absorbing countless personas. Brian Herbert really pissed on his father's grave by turning them into robots
_Heretics_ is worth reading. _Chapterhouse_ is clearly the second act of a bigger story, but there's no conclusion, so it's disappointing. I will never forgive Frank Herbert for dying before writing book 7. (I read Brian's books to finish the Dune saga, and they pale in comparison to Frank's.)
The last 2 novels of the originals are very good! They are, in a sense, an analysis of the life of the God-Emperor, as future humans have spent 15 centuries understanding Leto's legacy.
As far as I am concerned the franchise ended at G-d Emperor. Leto dies, humanity is saved from prescient human's ability to find each other and wipe each other out. The End.
I love the Dune books, the six original ones. This end, first time I read was okay, not good but yeah, but as I read it again it just got worse. Is just so much like a bad fanfic with all important characters coming back to life and the oracle and Eramus resolving everything with a click of their fingers, it not Dune! Is not what all the other books were about! I can’t like this end! I love Heretics and ChapterHouse but the series ends there for me, there’s probably better fanfic endings that the one we got, lol!
Brian Herbert is a dreadful writer who has ruined his father's superior storytelling. The last books, the post-quils shall we call them, were as poorly written as the Prelude and Houses of Dune Trilogies.
Honestly, I find the idea of ultimate harmony and super beings trite. The problem with this idea of prophecy is that it relies on basically the thinking machines to be super impressed by the idea of a super being guiding them all into happy happy times. Which mean you have to cornhole all the plots into meaningless events. The clone guy that have died tons of times happen to be the guy and because the spacing guild agreed, then they started finally to kick ass. And then this thinking robot went - man, he's cool. Boss man, lead us. That is a lot of books and a lot of meaningless thousands of years to discover that they just needed a clone in the end. Jesus died on the cross 400 times to figure out how to appease robots.
Mid credit scene, Matt Smith skynet in the form of the t 5000 materializes after having arrived from the distant past and utters "this time I have help" as he downloads the machine intelligence behind the matrix into the thinking machine network. End credit scene, John Connor and a resurrected Neo arrive from the distant past . As they download a copy of the Hal 9000 into the thinking machine network Connor utters we should've changed activation code from good morning Dave to exterminate.
It's AI narration, which as a machine trying to copy a human, but instead failing like an ugly transvestite of speech, is kinda fitting for Brian Herbert's own ugly transvestism of his own father's literary achievements.
I don't understand the argument that what Paul Attreides was doing was wrong, about the dangers of charismatic leadership, because how does the Dune saga even begin without Paul Attreides seeking his revenge? I would argue the universe before Dune begins is the outrage, the evil, with multiple essential dualities not even acknowledged let alone resolved.
Um, no, in the original novels, humanity had been in a stable feudal state for 10 000 years. Not ideal, sure, but it was ok. Paul unleashed the most terrible religious war in history at that time and massacred a huge portion of humanity, billions and billions of people died. Paul was an absolute, brutal, totalitarian tyrant. The Corrinos were never totalitarians. But Paul's worst crime was the future he chose. In his visions, he saw many futures, and he chose the one that would be the less hard for him and Chani. By chosing that future though, he condemned humanity to extinction, because he chose a future in which the Ixian prescient hunter seekers exterminate the whole species lol So no, Paul is not a good person lol. He tried to be, he had a good heart, but in the end he made horribly selfish choices. The most interesting part of the character, in my opinion, is his weakness. Paul was as much a victim of his visions as he was a monster. Nobody could have endured what he did, living through countless visions of all possible horrors the future held for him and Chani. In the end he wasn't strong enough, he was crushed by his vision. It's a tragic story. His son, however, was considered the ultimate tyrant monster the universe would ever see. But in reality, he was the most selfless human in history, only committing atrocities for the greater good, to break his father's vision and save humanity from extinction.
The ending doesn't make sense. Why must humans &: machines coexist? They are not equal. It was said that Duncan Idaho had Complete control over the Thinking Machines. No human being should have that much power over any intelligent species. Even if Duncan could see the future, he is not perfect and an imperfect person can make mistakes. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." I think Brian could not come up with an original idea and he proves this with his, "... and they all lived happily ever after." ending.
I was talking to a……less melanated friend of mine and she legit did not understand that Dune was a critique/satire of US/Western imperialism on indigenous/Arab peoples……needless to say, I was shocked 😮 at her naïveté.
For some reason I thought the ultimate reason for Paul and Leto's efforts was to create a humanity that was free to diaspora and evolve in every direciton possible. That way, humanity would be immune from prescience, a tool the could be used against them.
Variety was the best insurance against exinction. Humanity up to then was a monogenome and waiting for a perfectly adapted threat to wipe them out.
Well its based on Brian's books hence the nuttiness of it all. You are perfectly correct with your description of the Golden Path's objective ...
In the original Frank Herbert series, yes! Plus, the Golden Path also required the breeding of the no-gene, the new genetic trait that would make humans immune to prescience.
When the Ixian Hunter Seeker prescient machines would rise in the future, at least a few humans would survive, cloaked by their no-gene and sufficiently scattered and diverse.
Wow... just... wow. This summary makes me glad I never read Brian's books. They say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, but it rolled quite a ways downhill in this particular case....
Frank Herbert was a genius. Brian Herbert has the creativity and prose of a erotic romance author at a Dollar Tree and the media literacy of Tarzan. Of course he was never going to write as well as his father but it's apparent he fundamentally didn't understand Dune to begin with. At least Christopher Tolkien *got* LOTR.
....then the apple was kicked by a camel, fell into a thrash compactor, dumped in a tar pit, burned to ashes, and the smoke rose in the atmosphere and was disintegrated by solar radiation.
I mean, in Brian's novels, there's a witch girl who takes a magic gem and turns into a goddess. So... Lolll
So the saga about how an Ultimate ruler is bad ends with an ultimate ruler....
And with a savior/messiah figure literally performing Deus Ex Machina to save humanity so that ultimate ruler can rule over them.
Hahaha let's just say Brian Herbert had a... unique... understanding if his father's work.
The original books were so good, Brian is just a dirt stain on the side loll
Brian's books were for personal profit, not Frank's story. I'm still holding out for a secret original manuscript.
He knew all he had to do was say it was based off his dad's writings and original drafts and people would buy them up
Sorry, but I couldn't help laughing at the picture of Daniel and Marty.
I really grew sick of Duncan Idaho before he died the first time. this ending was truly dull and meaningless.
Yeah, I can see why this can't be ending Frank Herbert intended since it completely goes against philosophy in his series.
Also, Daniel and Marty were face dancers, not robots.
@@Grimlock1979 More like something what evolved from independent face dancers.
Yeah, Daniel and Marty explicitly tell us what they are, super evolved face dancers, that have become like Super Kwisatch Haderachs after absorbing countless personas.
Brian Herbert really pissed on his father's grave by turning them into robots
I stopped at the God Emperor. Seemed a much better ending/culmination of the Golden Path.
_Heretics_ is worth reading. _Chapterhouse_ is clearly the second act of a bigger story, but there's no conclusion, so it's disappointing. I will never forgive Frank Herbert for dying before writing book 7.
(I read Brian's books to finish the Dune saga, and they pale in comparison to Frank's.)
@theevermind I had read plot synopses ahead of time, which is why I decided to stop at 4. I agree, it's unfortunate 7 was never finished.
god emperor is my favorite book
The last 2 novels of the originals are very good! They are, in a sense, an analysis of the life of the God-Emperor, as future humans have spent 15 centuries understanding Leto's legacy.
As far as I am concerned the franchise ended at G-d Emperor. Leto dies, humanity is saved from prescient human's ability to find each other and wipe each other out. The End.
After listening to all this all I can say is "cocaine is a powerful drug."
LSD is a powerful drug.
I love the Dune books, the six original ones. This end, first time I read was okay, not good but yeah, but as I read it again it just got worse. Is just so much like a bad fanfic with all important characters coming back to life and the oracle and Eramus resolving everything with a click of their fingers, it not Dune! Is not what all the other books were about! I can’t like this end! I love Heretics and ChapterHouse but the series ends there for me, there’s probably better fanfic endings that the one we got, lol!
Brian Herbert is a dreadful writer who has ruined his father's superior storytelling. The last books, the post-quils shall we call them, were as poorly written as the Prelude and Houses of Dune Trilogies.
Frank was a racist homophobe that hated his son, and Brian tried to fix the universe
As a 40 year Dune fan, I liked the Legend of Dune prequel series. I did not like Hunters and Sandworms of Dune.
You said it. He is truly dreadful.
Disagree. I needed a closure & they did justice. Frank is Frank & Brian is Brian. No surprise there, but still pleased.
@ mmmmm ok
Brian's books are just fanfics
Exactly. If he really did have drafts, why hasn't he shared them.
Yup.
Remember when Paul joined a galactic circus and made friends with a fun and colorful Impresario?
Yeah, that happened in Brian's bad fanfic loll
Honestly, I find the idea of ultimate harmony and super beings trite. The problem with this idea of prophecy is that it relies on basically the thinking machines to be super impressed by the idea of a super being guiding them all into happy happy times. Which mean you have to cornhole all the plots into meaningless events. The clone guy that have died tons of times happen to be the guy and because the spacing guild agreed, then they started finally to kick ass. And then this thinking robot went - man, he's cool. Boss man, lead us. That is a lot of books and a lot of meaningless thousands of years to discover that they just needed a clone in the end. Jesus died on the cross 400 times to figure out how to appease robots.
The brian books feel like kevin wrote everyone based on Frank's notes and just put the suns name on them
That's very clearly what it is. Brian lends his name for credibility, but he didn't have the talent to crank out book after book.
@@theevermindrarely does the child out do the parent.
Nice summary. Enjoyed it.
Mid credit scene, Matt Smith skynet in the form of the t 5000 materializes after having arrived from the distant past and utters "this time I have help" as he downloads the machine intelligence behind the matrix into the thinking machine network. End credit scene, John Connor and a resurrected Neo arrive from the distant past . As they download a copy of the Hal 9000 into the thinking machine network Connor utters we should've changed activation code from good morning Dave to exterminate.
Man you make me miss Adderall
It would be interesting if Frank had finished the story line and not his son.
Not being able to pronounce Ithaca says everything I need to know about this video.
It might have been a better hint if you had spelled it ɪθəkə
It's AI narration, which as a machine trying to copy a human, but instead failing like an ugly transvestite of speech, is kinda fitting for Brian Herbert's own ugly transvestism of his own father's literary achievements.
You say "quizadaterach" with such power but say honoured "mat-treys" wrong.
You say honoured "mate-ers"
Really liked the video anyway
It's AI narration, and by it's very nature, will never be able to pronounce those words, and many others, correctly, unless by accident.
The honored Matres
I don't understand the argument that what Paul Attreides was doing was wrong, about the dangers of charismatic leadership, because how does the Dune saga even begin without Paul Attreides seeking his revenge? I would argue the universe before Dune begins is the outrage, the evil, with multiple essential dualities not even acknowledged let alone resolved.
Um, no, in the original novels, humanity had been in a stable feudal state for 10 000 years. Not ideal, sure, but it was ok. Paul unleashed the most terrible religious war in history at that time and massacred a huge portion of humanity, billions and billions of people died. Paul was an absolute, brutal, totalitarian tyrant. The Corrinos were never totalitarians.
But Paul's worst crime was the future he chose. In his visions, he saw many futures, and he chose the one that would be the less hard for him and Chani. By chosing that future though, he condemned humanity to extinction, because he chose a future in which the Ixian prescient hunter seekers exterminate the whole species lol
So no, Paul is not a good person lol. He tried to be, he had a good heart, but in the end he made horribly selfish choices. The most interesting part of the character, in my opinion, is his weakness. Paul was as much a victim of his visions as he was a monster. Nobody could have endured what he did, living through countless visions of all possible horrors the future held for him and Chani. In the end he wasn't strong enough, he was crushed by his vision. It's a tragic story.
His son, however, was considered the ultimate tyrant monster the universe would ever see. But in reality, he was the most selfless human in history, only committing atrocities for the greater good, to break his father's vision and save humanity from extinction.
With a Quitzach Hadderach, sing a song a tune, you've been watching too much Dune.
- LISTSERVE archives
Another dimension? Tf?
So many errors in this.
And many mispronunciations.
ih-Thah-ka? Maters?
@@HadrianRex I thought it was; "ITH-i-cuh", "MAH-trays"! :D
@@chadvanderlinden9548 I agree with you!
@@HadrianRex You weren't there!
The ending doesn't make sense. Why must humans &: machines coexist? They are not equal. It was said that Duncan Idaho had Complete control over the Thinking Machines. No human being should have that much power over any intelligent species. Even if Duncan could see the future, he is not perfect and an imperfect person can make mistakes. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
I think Brian could not come up with an original idea and he proves this with his, "... and they all lived happily ever after." ending.
“The ending doesn’t make sense…” That’s because Brian wrote it, not Frank.
He can't come up with an original idea, and can't understand an unoriginal one either 🤣
Just curious, was the last book written AFTER Matrix: Revolution? Just saying.. it's almost the same thing.
Brian has the imagination of a fun kids cartoon. Amusing, but dumb if you think about it a little.
Brian killed it. I read 2 of his books and stopped. Long live the originals!
Sounds like total fanfic, completely out of dune realm. I do not think that the son understood his fathers story.
I had to stop at the wierd reverse forced sex scene battle in the second last book between a sex witch and Duncan clone 3021.
"Ith-ah-kah" 🤭
You hope for my enjoyment. You do not order it.
👍
"The story of a privledged son who turns into a giant scary orange worm: The Life of Donald Trump"
I was talking to a……less melanated friend of mine and she legit did not understand that Dune was a critique/satire of US/Western imperialism on indigenous/Arab peoples……needless to say, I was shocked 😮 at her naïveté.
I’m shocked at your passive aggressive attempt at seeming something more than a provocative racist
Oof
MAH-TRAYS! Not maters!