Big lie zoro beat lucci in lucci form immediately zoro got serious , luffy went into gear 5 For lucci before he could even harm lucci but lucci got back up and even matched him a bit , trust me luffy knows zoro strength and im sure he will Go into gear 5 immediately , cuz there is no way zoro won’t surpass his gear 4 , zoro even harmed kaido in his greatest form while zoro already taken two Emperor attack all to himself
@@bluenight2322wrong when luffy went into gear 5 he was toying with lucci. He would beat him with gear 4 or gear 2 easily he didn't need 5 to beat him. Get zoro passed kaido then we can talk. Zoro loses to gear 2 luffy with all types of haki. Stop glazing zoro
@@bluenight2322did you miss the part where zoro was huffing and puffing and him not able to run ? Jimbei is corrently carrying him zoro didn't just got serious and beat lucci instantly zoro thought he was going to lose when sanji said his to weak and zoro pushed his body to the limit that lucci put him at his limits just cause oda didnt show the entire figth your ignoring the damage lucci did . Yeah he took on 2 emperors attack by himself but that just means he can endure attacks not tank them and fight more not like kaido did he took 10 people attacking and he still can sink the island whith internal bleeing concutions broken bones from ryo attacks and him getting cut while zoro was in deaths bead . And the to correct you on something cause im sure your a anime watcher but in the manga the fight luffy vs lucci on egg head gos completly differently but still shows how luffy was just playing with lucci he didnt just got up after the battle he got patched up by stussy you seen the part where lucci was covered in bandeges after the fight in the anime right? They skip the part where lucci was K.O for a minute and was getting bandage and was warning lucci he shouldnt have fight emperor without a order but lucci refuse the idea luffy was a emperor.
I disagree with Zoro not knowing he’s coating his swords with conquerors haki. Maybe he doesn’t realize it’s specifically conquerors haki but him creating a whole new 3 sword style heavily implies he’s aware of his strength improving by a good margin.
How can u say that wen of course the main character is goin to win the fight think about if Zoro beat Luffy he loses his whole crew off top so now he alone ok who's to say Luffy still get all these power ups the training etc. Zoro is the rite hand man but not the main character I think switch the roles an tell me how u see it
We’ll never get another whiskey peak. Mainly because it was extremely out of character for them to be fighting. Luffy always has extreme faith in his friends. Yet when he saw Zoro fighting baroque works who were masquerading as townsfolk he instant assumed Zoro had did wrong instead of hearing him out.
@@kingmanga8575 I never said the fight, I meant the intensity, when both characters seek to put the other 6 ft under. Either of them could be mind controlled, for example.
@@Memelord1117 It is possible that Luffy could lose his will to the fruit, thus endangering the crew and forcing Zoro to try setting him straight. Every time Luffy starts doing crazy shit that the rest of them don't have time for, Zoro is the one to stand up to him. Because he's the only strawhat that actually has a chance of knocking sense into Luffy besides Nami.
Best estimate, Gear 4 with advanced Conqueror's would probably be where Zoro stops. Zoro may be dang strong, but his speed is no where near the insane multiplicative power and speed stacking that Bounceman has, much less Snakeman. G5 is out of the question.
If we involve the powerful conquerors haki luffy have and even his observation haki he learned against katakuri, zoro doesn’t even stand a chance against the gear 2 luffy
@@bogart7498 No. One serious hit from Zoro gets any gear of Luffy below g4 at like 50% hp. Zoro AP is yonko level, unfortunately that's his only outstanding stat.
@@Deode-d4h😂 as a Zoro Stan myself I constantly remind the ones with there heads in the clouds to really come back down to earth and really think logically here…Gear 4 Luffy maybe bounceman is where Zoros strength could *ALMOST* be at and that’s at full power and I don’t think his speed is at snakeman level so to even think it’s able to take on Gear 5 is laughable but there’s a lot of people that just don’t wanna hear it I get you 😂 insanity 🗡️ ⚔️
The issue with the whole base Luffy with g2/g3 being Yonko level (which is obviously above admiral level) is the fact that Luffy was struggling pretty hard against Kizaru while he was using Gear 4. Admirals can DEFINITLY defeat Sky splitting YONKO, BUT NOT if the Yonko actually get SERIOUS. Being able to split the sky with EASE shows that you are a Yonko, SO it DOESN'T mean that Admirals will lose in a fight to that character's base form (going off the fact that all the Yonko with confirmed ACOC have shown to split the sky in BASE).
Tbf, Luffy immediately went Gear 5 instead of Luffy using more of his ACoC in Gear 4. Not saying that Gear 4 + ACoC is superior to Kizaru, but I think Luffy under that form can do a much better job.
Luffy never used conqueror coating on his snakeman form, or his base when he fought Lucci. That's why people overhype both of them over the likes of Kaido
@guts7099 Why would Luffy not use acoc against an enemy that he himself identified as being really strong? Just because there was no lightning or anything doesn't mean much when after he learned it, he kept using it on Kaido, but there was no lightning when he was hitting Kaido while in Snake Man.
Since kaido openly stated he was using it. I don't think card matters. But the voice of all things is still an alternative option if one was needed since we never really got a proper explanation on what that really was
Saying that Zoro's Asura: Dead Man's Game is weaker bcause of the 20-30 broken bones is a bit disingenuous because that would imply that Luffy's Bajrang Gun was weaker when he KO'd Kaido, or that his King Cobra was weaker when he "KO'd" Katakuri.. I think its more apt to say that characters can output 100% of their energy & AP when they do their final attacks regardless of the state their in..
Advanced conquerors is the coating. We've only came up with the term advanced conquerors because of the "final form". Most conquerors users dont coat it, Luffy had to realise it against Kaido and Big Mom showing that they were the only ones using that skill
I was there when "advanced haki" was purely theoretical. It's ever since Katakuri that we as a community really started to dig. Conquerors had no solid evidence apart from one statement. Shanks being able to knowdown all Fishman compared to Luffy who got half. That was the one and only clue
I think all of the fan base are missing a very important point 😅 Oda doesn't care about fight nor does he care about power scaling. Oda only care about the story being fun , he will make any character weak or strong based on what will make the story more "fun".
I think it's also important to note that a blunt fighter such as luffy who doesn't have any cutting attacks barely has any way to actually scar anyone. It's all internal damage for him. That aspect can't really be compared 1 to 1
Zoro, no matter what health he had was not going toe to toe with Kaido on the rooftop for long, Yamato, went for at least 20 to 30 minutes, and Kaido told her he was serious.
Yamato wasn't going toe to toe either, he was losing quite badly and even admits he didn't block Kaido's thunder bagua like at all. Zoro on the other hand gave Kaido a permanent scar.
@@Tofu_b01she identifies as oden she’s attracted to males *confirmed* but she only calls her self a male to be like oden she she identifies as oden but she’s a girl.
@michalvrabec454 u must didn't see the manga cuz akainu put holes in white turd and took half of his face white turd was getting bodied and kaido and zoro gap in power is bigger than the gap in power white turd and akainu had💀💀
Fair logic though I think if Oda actually did illustrate it, Zoro would rival gear 4 Luffy and maybe even win against that gear. Mostly because Oda would want the fight to be interesting. Gear 5 though… hard to say if that gear will ever be really challenged until the final arc of one piece.
The talks about luffy knocking down kaido while zoro didn't doesn't mean anything. Zoro never knocks down his opponents, he uses swords, he cuts into his opponents he doesn't know them around. Luffy knocks his opponents around alot but those attacks regularly do less damage to his opponents than zoro does.
Oda has kept Zoro relatively close to luffy. They were even at whiskey peak, they were even pretty much all the way to ennies lobby. Even saboady he was about to kill a celestial dragon, and then luffy punches one. Benn beckman is said to be on par with Shanks. Rayleigh was said to be close to Roger and was considered a partner with Roger, which is the same relationship with Zoro and luffy
yeah it will probably be a similar case to that type of portrayal. Just that right now Luffy is being portrayed to be at a power level that leaves a massive gap between them.
@@tevinm4292 Can u explain to me how it's not then Zoro doesn't have a devil fruit but he has defeated every person he faced wit a devil fruit. On the other hand Luffy has a devil fruit one the most powerful devil fruits in the series the characters that know Joy boy doesn't call Luffy in gear 5 Luffy they call him Joy boy that alone speaks for itself so basically anybody that gets that transformation will be called Joy boy not who they really are now back to wat u asked me explain to u how it's on par ok first off we are talkin bout a devil fruit user vs a non devil fruit user Luffy is rubber Zoro is flesh an bones they both put in work to get where they are now but luffy has a stamina problem where Zoro doesn't why? Cuz Zoro trained an built his body to the strength he has now where Luffy got stronger through transformations an special haki training wit Raylie Zoro was never trained on haki he used it as he learned all he was told was if u get strong enough u can turn yo blades black also enma drains yo haki from yo body to the sword taking away from the actual fighter power using enma gear 5 doesn't drain the fighters haki it boosts it Luffy an Zoro been neck an neck the whole series literally Zoro isn't stronger than Luffy but also Luffy isn't stronger than Zoro the are on par wit each other evenly matched the reason u are saying he's stronger is cuz of a devil fruit an training Luffy was given a long the way Zoro doesn't know how to use rio but Luffy does beat kaido without gear 5 hell gear 4 couldn't even beat big mom to be honest
@@jevonbeasley8241luffy and zoro been neck to neck only at whiskey peak and that 1000 chapters ago ,after alabasta luffy has never been close to zoro atleast after thriller bark ,luffy>>zoro
Even if Conqueror's Haki can only be strengthened by getting stronger, that doesn't mean equally strong people have equally strong Conqueror's Haki. We know that Luffy is more talented in Conqueror's Haki than any other color, so talent has to be a factor for the potency. If ACoC is a proportional buff, than luffy should have a higher multiplier than zoro
@@MicaW4VE I did, but what the video said was (slightly) different. It says that luffy has a higher nominal increase but the same proportional one (the example given didn't strictly fit that, but I think that was just for simplicity's sake.). I'm saying that Luffy should have a higher proportional increase as well. It's kinda irrelevant because I agree with his conclusion regardless, but I think luffy would have a higher ACoC buff even if Zoro was just as strong otherwise.
People forget that throughout the last fight on the rooftop and his fight with king, he was already way past his limit in exhaustion with multiple broken bones at that. Meanwhile King was hardly sweating after his skirmishes with Marco and Sanji so it's not really a fair comparison. The best comparison we got is how both Luffy and Zoro were playing around with awakened Lucci and both won the fight as soon as they used a named attack. Now that doesn't mean they're equal, not even close. Current Zoro would not last more than MAYBE 5 minutes against g5 Luffy and would probably be unable to do any meaningful damage to him, but that's mostly just because of how ridiculous G5 is rather than Zoro lacking in ability. Snakeman/Boundman would be a closer fight, very hard win for Luffy with odds of 6 times out of 10 with Luffy's speed and future sight being the biggest influence on the fight. In other words: Zoro cannot tank a king king.. KING kong gun from Acoc Luffy without major damage or even being knocked out, but neither is Luffy tanking asura without major damage or being knocked out.
I mean zoro took the combined attack from big mom and kaido even if only for a few second nobody else even thought about trying to contest it but him, that alone makes me believe zoro would probably block or deflect a kong gun
I think Egghead really kinda changes the results of this video imo. The fight between the strawhats/cp0 and the seraphim has Zoro/Sanji/Hybrid Lucci/ G4 Luffy all doing similarly well against the Seraphim and Luffy directly comparing Seraphim durability to Kaido sorta confirms this as well. Then we have the fact that Luffy isn't really able to do much to any of the Gorosei without Gear 5th while Sanji and Zoro could do some stuff, Sanji blocking several of Kizaru's attacks and taking a kick to the face from him with no real damage, Zoro ultimately taking down Awakened Lucci once he got really serious in one attack (which is impressive because Awakened Lucci was still capable of putting up somewhat of a fight against G5 Luffy), etc. I'd probably say that G5 Luffy>>>Zoro>Sanji>Current G4 Luffy.
Lunarians have the highest durability in the verse, Gorosei don't really count since they have extremely and highly-regenerative abilities, however Warcury is probably even more durable than Kaido regardless, at least a Base Kaido, who knows about a Full-Zoan or Hybrid Kaido.
Lucci put up no fight against G5 , Luffy didnt even get hit by him in the manga. Also the only gorosei Luffy had a problem with was warcury , besides the regeneration they have he was straight up so hard that it hurt luffy , which is insane. Nothing zoro or sanji have done confirms they are ahead of G4 luffy
@@latima123ify and the fact that luffy never used acoc in gear 4 against kizaru nor the seraphim’s and I would say base luffy with acoc > gear 4 with plain haki
@@latima123ify Zoro wasn’t even serious against Lucci until the very end, where he nearly oneshotted him with a named attack and without ACOC. If we are going to claim Zoro was serious against Lucci through the entirety of the fight, we’ll have to assume he was also serious against Apoo despite Zoro having the help of X Drake, right? You people only support characters when it benefits your biased agenda 😂
I think it's more interesting to see how many arcs behind in power Zoro is to Luffy. - beginning of whole Cake Luffy ≈ Cracker (average Commande - end of Whole Cake Luffy ≈ Katakuri (first Commander) -> End of Wano Zoro > King (first commander) So post Wano Zoro >≈ End of Whole Cake Luffy Basically 1 arc behind.
I will be honest and Just say. In gear 5 Zoro does not stand a chance. But gear 4 really? I think Zoro extreme to high diffs Gear 4. Only time we see Zoro getting pushed to his absolute limit is against Kaido and then he get's new boost. I just think it's unfair to say. A Gear 4 luffy which is way below Kaido level. Is stronger then Same Zoro who scarred Kaido and got a very big power up. Realize this Luffy fans because I know you guys are more delusional then us Zoro fans which is a hard task to do. All out Zoro is stronger then Luffy with gear 4 by a small margin. But after Gear 5 the power difference becomes way too big for Zoro to compete.
Bro just said Luffy fans are more delusional 😂 Zkk was a thing buddy, and the fact you even think Zoro could beat gear 4 Luffy is even more hilarious. Zoro meatmunchers back at it
they are complete opposites and are relative in strength as it should be. They make up for each others weaknesses. luffys way of fighting is chaotic. zoro is more precision based. luffys body is rubber, zoro is flesh and bone. luffy cant swim, zoro can luffys stamina is an issue. zoro breaking bones drops his AP considerably. luffys specialty is conquerors haki, Zoros is armament (ppl gotta stop talking like luffy has trained armament as much as zoro. gear 5th is proof that the nika doesnt need hardness when it can turn its surrounding into rubber) luffy is weak to slashing atks and zoro fights nothing but enemies that are extremely difficult to cut. voice of all things and breath of all things. the only two straw hats we see train. both luffy and zoro have the same fighting spirit.
So I disagree with rooftop zoro being weaker than gear 4th luffy. The difference in power between that one sword style slash that zoro shot at kaido is relative to the gear 4th luffy who did that long Gatling against kaido. Even though during zoro’s use of ashura on the rooftop had conquerors haki emanating from it, that doesn’t erase the possibility of rooftop zoro possibly having a non conquerors buffed ashura in his bag. Ashura’s been done by zoro before without conquerors so there’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t be able to do it without conquerors. Also you only discussed attack power. Which in terms of lethality, zoro should be superior since swords are obviously more lethal fists. Luffy was knocked out by one thunder bagua on the rooftop and zoro blocked a combined ocean sovereignty attack. So defense and durability would go to zoro as well as endurance and stamina since luffy had multiple breaks on the rooftop before zoro used ashura. It wouldn’t be crazy that zoro is as strong as or stronger than luffy on the rooftop at that time, since that segment wasn’t that prolonged in the overarching fight. I think the damage kaido took from both zoro and luffy crude application of conquerors goes to zoro too. Luffy had just got back up from resting and took no damage that would limit him from continuing to move. Zoro had almost every bone in his body broken. We know ashura isn’t a one hit move, he stays on that form. Zoro didn’t pass out because ashura drained him. He passed out because of the damage he took. And that was the limit of his endurance. Look what a king of hell attack did to rob lucci and look what all luffy’s gear 5th attacks did. I say all this to say KoH Zoro high diffs gear 4th luffy. But gear 5th provides such a jump in power than it low-mid diffs zoro.
So you're basically say if you swap Luffy with Zoro in chapter 1042 in his fight drunken Kaido, Zoro's gonna be able to not only somehow hang with drunken Kaido, but do BETTER than Snakeman and Bounceman Luffy? Not. A. Chance.
1. Zoro blocked hakai with his swords, not with his body, so durability doesn't go to zoro. Also, the only direct hit zoro took from kaido was thunder Bagua, while luffy took a ragnarok, which is stronger. You could argue endurance, but definately not durability. 2. Its very unlikely zoro is stronger than luffy in rooftop because against kaido, there's a matchup issue. That doesn't translate to power. Killer in comparison did far better against kaido than kid did but that's cause he's a good match for kaido. If we take into account absolutely everything that luffy can do, wich includes a form of g4 that only future sight and superspeed can properly deal with (both of which zoro doesn't have) and it's clear luffy is indeed more powerful than zoro. Zoro is better specifically in lethalness and has an advantage through swordsmanship, but a fight is more than that. 3. The damage luffy did with his unmastered acoc is implied to be superior or at the very least equal to ashura's because the potency of luffy's haki is higher than zoro's. This is implied when zoro said he couldn't knock kaido on his knees but luffy had him on his back. In top of that, there are no indication that zoro's cut had any impact in kaido's combat performance. 4. Koh zoro is losing to g4 coc luffy 100%. Unlike zoro, luffy doesn't have stamina issues with his acoc while zoro actually does. G2-g3 acoc Luffy would already be a challenge for koh zoro cause luffy's acoc is stronger than zoro's, in g4 luffy is Physically stronger than in g2, and is faster on top of being able to fly. Let's also not forget than he was future sight too. Zoro would be overwhelmed. If kaido of all people had to resort to future sight to deal with acoc g4, zoro is losing. There's 0% chances he wins.
@@svz1345 1. Zoro block hakai with his swords. But his body has to brace the brunt of the attack, that’s how force works. The energy has to transfer somewhere otherwise it wouldn’t make sense as to how other parts of his body ended up broken. Even if not all of the force was taken by zoro, the combined force was enough to kill all 5 supernova. If anyone else would have attempted that, they would have died and they said that. Even kid who is able to tank massive amounts of damage was taken back. 2. It being a match up issue for luffy just gives credence to how Zoro would have the advantage in more match ups. And if you want to argue that luffy performed better upon unlocking acoc than zoro, that can’t really be taken into consideration since zoro was in such a critical condition after saving luffy and the other supernova. A health zoro was performing better than luffy on the rooftop before the acoc buffs. Awakened lucci was able to keep up with and tank 3 attacks from gear 5th luffy. The jump from gear 4th luffy to gear 5th took luffy from getting casually kicked away and block by kisaru to luffy being able to one tap and man handle him. That same lucci was taken out by just 1 three sword style non KoH attack with acoc. Luffy speed and future sight in gear 4th would not be enough to keep up with zoro. Kaido was “overwhelmed” by snake man luffy attack speed because he was drunk and sluggish. Luffy needed acoc to damage kaido zoro did not, his advanced armament was enough to significantly damage kaido. Seeing as big mom frantically warned kaido to dodge zoro’s attack. 3. We don’t know if luffy acoc was superior. Luffy uses blunt attacks with a lot of force behind it and is literally made out of rubber. Rubber has very elastic properties which helps with causing things or people to be pushed by when hit by it. We can’t really compare the effects of kaido getting pushed onto his back and zoro causing mountains of blood to gush out of kaido in a similar way. On top of that it seems like a lot of people don’t stress how injured zoro was and his fight ending with kaido having to do with a lack of ability to stay conscious after all the damage taken and not just a lack in actual combat ability. Had zoro stayed up, it looked like he would have put up just as good of a fight as luffy did before he was knocked off the rooftop. It’s not like zoro ran out of haki or strength. His body hit an endurance limit due to hakai. I understand the story implications of zoro not being able to put kaido on his knees. But that’s also a severely weakened version of zoro. 4. Zoro hasn’t shown any stamina issues with KoH as of the latest chapter in egghead and shows the ability to use ACoC outside of king of hell too. Luffy superiority in strength is offset in zoro’s lethality and luffy’s rubber aspect not working against blades. I doubt luffy is more durable than kaido and seeing as zoro can scar kaido I’m sure he can do significant damage to luffy. Like I mentioned previously gear 5th luffy and three sword style zoro both blitzed awakened lucci. I don’t think zoro is close to gear 5th luffy in speed. But I believe, due to that feat and how big of an overall increase gear 5th adds to luffys physical ability, that gear 4th luffy would be slower than KoH zoro. What has gear 4th luffy done that could place him above a health KoH zoro. And the only thing that’s faster about luffy in gear 4th snakeman is his attacks. Not his actual movement speed. And zoro is known for being able to specifically react to fast attacks. Ik yall hold luffy in high esteem because yall think he went blow for blow against kaido in gear 2 and 3 on the rooftop, but kaido was not going out and luffy had got dispatched quickly. Even in gear 4th he was getting bodied. The jump to gear 5th wasn’t clear enough to most of the community until egghead when we expected a gear 2 luffy to handle kizaru. But that didn’t happen. Shoot even gear 4th luffy couldn’t really do much to kizaru. So he went gear 5th.
@SecondSoulo the fandom just likes to glaze luffy to all end, some are saying base luffy beats sanji and zoro simply because he was clashing with kaido after his buff for a while (mind u he gets completely overwhelmed afterwards), implying base luffy is somewhat EQUAL to hybrid kaido?? Its so absurd, what i hate the most and u clarified is, there always comparing luffy to basically a nerfed zoro, luffy gets the most rest time in a fight compared to anyone in the verse x10 , and eating food replenishes his strength seriously? Not fair, ur right rooftop zoro was arguably the strongest before they split up, people who say current zoro "has no control of his acoc as it drains more off him than luffy" arent making any sense, its really not hard to read, 1) zoro is already tired, 2) zoro without control of enma is basically nerfing his stam in exchange for higher haki output cuz everyone apart from luffy use their haki sparringly, whereas luffy with his gears use it all out to compete with top tiers hence why he has that 10 min cd without using haki... and since doflamingo hes being so lucky to escape during those times its unbelievable
@@FTL_SAN gear 4 could've did way more into kizaru if he didn't get launched into the lasers plus u can litterallly see Luffy go from snake man to bounceman to reduce the damage from being hit through the lasers
Zoro is likely admiral level, and Luffy trashes admirals, excluding Sengoku. He'd have to surpass Kaido and Shanks before fighting Mihawk, though, so maybe by the end of the series Zoro and Luffy will be equals depending on how strong Luffy's opponents will be.
at the end of the story, zoro might end up beating mihawk, so zoro is going to be stronger than mihawk and also shanks since mihawk arguably equal with shanks. a person that stronger than shanks must be roger, so let's say zoro will be on roger level, which is super super strong. but luffy is going to be on joyboy level, even stronger than roger
@Sulejmani775 We do not know how Roger scales to Joyboy, nor how Mihawk scales to Roger. Mihawk could very well be on a level above Roger since he has a black blade and characteristics that suggest he's stronger than an average Yonko. Thus, I said that it depends solely on how strong the opponents Luffy will face shall be. If they're stronger than Mihawk, then yes, Luffy will be stronger than Zoro. The point is, we do not know how strong Mihawk is. Maybe I'm overrating him, and he's a fodder like people say, no idea. The only things we've seen is that Shanks is able to one-shot somebody as strong as Kidd and that Mihawk no longer considers Shanks an opponent strong enough to be his rival, which may or may not be true, only Oda knows honestly lol. We've also seen him clash with Vista for a suspiciously long period of time, but it's unlikely that he gave his all in that clash, I'm guessing he would've annihilated Vista if he was serious given the fact his ordinary sword slashes are as destructive as the named attacks of certain characters.
Idk man look at how long it took Zoro to try post time skip. Luffy was just struggling with commanders last arc, Zoro beat his first commander AFTER fighting some emperors
@@rob6912 You can't be serious😂😂, who has Zoro fought since the time skip that's on Katakuri's level BEFORE wano? Didn't he get sent off the cliff by the yeti cool brothers? Couldn't do anything to fujitora (couldn't even get to doffy) and he used his strongest 3 sword style just to beat Pica who's still weaker than vergo......Please take his 4th sword out your mouth, Zoro gets his attacks weaved by base carrot
@@ReesesDaGod exactly the point, he didn't need 11 hours to beat his first commander. Luffy and Sanji have both been using their pre time skip strongest forms all over the new world and Zoro has barely pulled out ashura. Zoro launched an attack while being crushed by gravity 🤣 he wasn't worried about fujitora
@@rob6912 Zoro couldn't unleash ashura until he got enma to help him use his conquerer's haki. He didn't he know he had it until kaido told him so he actually HAS been going all out with what he's learned
@@pedrahits717 indeed. But still, just standing there, letting Queen (who, I suppose, is stronger than Zoro, who cut steel in Alabasta) cut his neck with full force, and the sword breaks in 2.
Enma doesn't "carry" Zoro but it'd be an outright lie if we pretend like Enma isn't a huge boost to Zoro's abilities. Big Mom specifically warned Kaido about the sword itself not Zoro demonstrating how strong the sword was.
Enma is clearly being used as a tool to draw out Zoro's latent power but idk if I'd say it's carrying him. Zoro even mentions that Enma drawing out so much haki from him is its way of TESTING him, seeing if he is truly worthy to wield it. Also yea Big Mom warns Kaido about Enma because Zoro was using Enma to attack him LMFAO. It was a one sword style technique using Enma so obviously Big Mom would warn Kaido about the singular weapon being used to attack him.
@@doctorsam5771either way it was stated that a regular swordsman would die if they wield enma which means the only reason enma is able to amplify zoros power is because zoro has the ability to wield enma without dying.
If you follow the logic that your acoc buff is relative the user's strength, then the base Luffy after awakening Gear 5 would be significantly stronger than the one that split the sky with Kaido! (Forgot to add that)
you need to consider the fact that Zoro is a swordsman, which is the natural enemy of Luffy... Zoro uses slashing or cutting attacks while luffy uses blunt attacks (punches, kicks,etc.) this difference shows in the impact they have on their opponents... Luffy wouldn't be able to beat king while zoro did even when luffy can generate more power than king and at the same time zoro couldn't bring kaido to his knees while luffy could because kaido was more susceptible to blunt attacks...
Zoro cant even touch luffy, luffy s hakis are all superior to that of zoros. If luffy uses hardening, zoro cant cut him. And if luffy uses future sight, zoro cant land a hit
Eh swords aren't his weakness, he's just as vulnerable as Zoro is to a sword slash if not less so due to better haki than Zoro. We see him eat multiple windblades from Kaido while Zoro had to block or dodge the same attack 🤷🏽. We've also seen Lucci clash barehand with Zoro's swords, as have Luffy and Sanji. Hell even Jimbei's blocked swords bare hand too. Try again.
I think you comparing their results against Kaido is kind of accurate but not at the same time. Sure G4 and Base Luffy with ACOC have lasted longer but Zoro's slash ACOC attacks are far different from blunt ACOC attacks from Kaido. If Base Luffy or G4 Luffy were hit by Asura or even King of Hell it wouldn't be as easy for him to walk off rather than blunt hits from Kaido. Luffy can take hits from Kaido and Zoro can too but Luffy isn't gonna be getting hit by a club he is going to be getting cut by a blade which in my opinion is deadlier. I think it Zoro would be able to tank more of Luffy Acoc attacks than Luffy trying to endure Zoros sword attacks. Imagine if Kaido had a sword instead of a club, the rooftop wouldn't be pretty at all.
Its my belief Oda has showed Zoro & Luffy are in the same tier AP wise. Luffy is obviously superior in all around way but just on that one aspect i see them as close. I feel Wano showcased this. I will say Luffy is moreso at the top end of the tier while Zoro would obviously be lower.Zoro being able to Scar Kaido, Also being strongly implied to be able to kill Kaido and outright breaking through a lunarian defense which is the highest shown . I'm simply saying Zoro is rightfully so in the same tier (Ap wise) because he can kill anyone within the tier if he can connect cleanly
I don't think he would ever be able to kill Kaido and the lunarian defense doesn't apply because he only managed to bring King down with the flames off. I do agree and I think it applies to Sanji too, both of the wings have one special aspect and in that aspect while still outshined by Luffy in every other category they are close. For Zoro it's his AP and for Sanji it's his speed and honestly I would say that with ifrit jambe Sanji is probably faster than Luffy and in a direct AP comparison without haki Zoro also might be slightly above Luffy lowkey.
@@insertcringeynamehere5729Sorry sanji has never been implied to be on their lvl ever... Regarding Kaido tell me what does dodging a sword cut to the neck imply if not death? King was literally being worn down by ACoC and both the anime & manga even show King had his flame on during the last attack
@@trehubb6144 if you notice once king blocks with the flames on he doesnt recieve a direct attack until the final clash where he still has his flames on
so zoro does more damage with the same conditions but luffy is stronger because he is the captain, zoro does permanent damage with less power than luffy and no fruit but luffy is stronger... guys you forget that zoro literally has the type of damage that can hurt luffy... he cut kaido so luffy would have no chance, kaido hurt luffy with a hammer, same hammer zoro deflected... if you all just says luffy wins after that you all just making no sense, it's not bad that zoro is stronger, they have different goals, that has been a real thing since they meet, zoro has shown the monster he is lots of times even absorbing luffy's pain once and still standing after he already had fight in that same place
@@Mc_nice kaido fully swallowed luffy after zoro told him not to play around. who saved him? hmm seems like zoro is always picking up luffys slack. his battle IQ is arguably better than luffys.
In base form Luffy strength is 100 Zoro is 90 Sanji is 88 Jimbie is 85 Franky is 80 Robin and Brook is 75 chopper is 60 Usopp is 50 nami is 40 , but gear five Luffy is 200😂😂😂 twice as strong as Zoro.
Luffy bullied rob lucci while Zoro high diffed him and had an asthma attack mid fight. After seeing how Luffy manhandled Saturn AND Kizaru, I'm gonna say G5 Luffy mid diffs his entire crew.
How I’d rank them (all in max) Luffy: 91 Zoro: 75 Sanji: 72 Jimbei: 69 Now for reference: Shanks: 95 Kaido: 93 Big Mom: 90 Blackbeard: 88 (hacks make him 90+) Kid: 74 Law: 73 Akainu: 92 Aokiji: 90 Kizaru: 89 Prime Whitebeard: 99 Gol D. Roger: 99 Prime Garp: 98 Gorosei: All in high 85+/low 90 range.
you do know luffy would dogwalk kaido at this moment right? in g5, he mid diffed kaido, it was barely a fight luffy was cooking that mf how can you say with a straight face oh yea kaido overall is better than luffy, while luffy has better haki, better fruit and better fighting feats, also kizaru 2 points under luffy but he got repeatedly one tapped by luffy when he got serious, kizaru couldn't do nothing to luffy. bootycheeks list all around
@@ΚρανίΩ +Kaido was already injured by Zoro +Kaido was drunk at one point in the fight +Luffy extreme diffed him, He was barely dealing any damage until bajrang gun
I think it's fair to say Wano Samurai Haki = Advanced Swordsmanship Haki = Advanced Haki/Ryou Haki IMO Ryou Haki has been stated to be the type of Haki Samurai use in Wano, so one can assume Ryou Haki is pretty much the same principle Samurai use when they infuse their Haki in their swords. In this case when Luffy uses Ryou, he is basically doing the same thing Samurai do, it's just Luffy applies it on his fists rather than swords. By Samurai Haki level you can think of the Red scabbards level. If you can level with me so far, I think it's fair to assume Zoro already had Ryou-Haki/Wano Samurai Haki mastered without knowing it was Ryou Haki. Although different results; Zoro cutting through both Pica's Haki defense and Kaido- & King's Haki defense & (un)natural tough body is still the same as Luffy dealing inner damage through his fist by dealing penetrating damage using Wano Samurai Haki. In that same way, although Luffy's Ryou Haki damage dealt can't be seen from the outside, a swordsman dealing penetrating damage like Luffy's Ryou Haki shows in the form of a slash. It still penetrates. Recalling back Zoro vs Monet, that might have been the same principle of Ryou Haki on display. Back then it was Zoro raising his"intimidation" level, dealing ptsd damage in a sense, but from a different point of view, it might have been a form of Haki close to Ryou Haki level
@@Aldranor im starting to think yall dont think he didnt leave permanent damage he left a permanent scar punching wouldnt scar its impact obviously it wont but a deep slice would leave a scar once it completely breaks skin a punch wouldnt break skin but it could do way more damage than a slice its common sense
@@Aldranor all he did was open up an old scar and even then it still didn’t go all that deep while Luffy without G5 hell even base was doing proper damage and going toe to toe with hybrid kaido. The gap between rooftop Luffy and Zoro was already huge and thanks to the advanced forms of haki he unlocked during wano that gap is absolutely massive even without gear 5.
U guys are insane. Zoro is an opponent worthy of gear 5 and nothing less. He aint beating gear 5 thats not a question but to sit there and say anything less is insane. Just blatantly ignoring the story or pushing your shit agenda if thats any of your conclusions.
@yeahhnatte7267 that was before Zoro used conquerors coating. Remember Zoro also had nearly all of his bones broken by a combined Hakai attack from Big Mom & Kaido before scarring Kaido.
@@yeahhnatte7267 how is a yonko going to tell another yonko whos known for his durability to dodge an attack that wasnt even coated with conquerors haki? Kaido wasn't in base form at the time too your just picking and choosing random shit to push ur weird agenda
Your the one pushing agenda bout luffy needs g5 to beat Zoro, the level of disrespect and downplaying u people do against luffy is insane g4 acoc is more than enough
@@QuentonGriffin-he3qfLucci literally asked Luffy what was that appearance he had in his poster and Luffy decided to show him. Not because Luffy couldn't beat him in bass. Luffy has better haki then Zoro. So base Luffy beats him.
id say since zoro with with three blades was able to block and deflect an awakened kaku's nose pistol, he with two blades was able to high mid diff S-Hawk, he with two blades can hold his off with slight difficulty rob lucci prolly like 3 tiers below
I'm a big Zoro fan, but I have to admit. Zoro was very close to Luffy in the east blue, and after the time skip, before Luffy revealed gear 4th, they were looking very close too. Apart from those times, Luffy is way above Zoro, consistently defeating oponents that Zoro wouldn't have a chance against and making the gap between them bigger in every arc.
very well done vid. Thje way I see it, the gap between Luffy and his commanders(zoro/sanji/jimbei) is either the same or larger than the gap between any yonko and their commanders. Like Kaido is thrashing King/Queen/Jack in base if he's not trolling, same with Big Mom, Shaniks, and Whitebeard. On a side note, its pretty difficult to scale characters in relation to Kaido as that nigga approaches fights like Goku. Like Luffy was giving hybrid Kaido trouble in base with perfected Acoc, but Hybrid kaido was also giving G5 Luffy trouble because Kaido fights to the level of his opponents if possible.
@gucciusmaximusi5099 Chat we have a Zoro glazer, Zoro never was and never will be above/outright superior to Luffy. Up until maybe Whole Cake he was at least close (outside of like East Blue and the arcs leading to Alabasta they were pretty equal there) but since the end of Whole Cake and especially Wano and Egghead Luffy is leagues above Zoro. Zoro and Sanji is a far closer comparison than Zoro and Luffy.
There is much wrong with this video. Databooks like Deep Blue commenting on the several levels of Conqueror's Haki, especially Databook Yellow which comments on why Shank's conqueror's haki is so powerful, are cemented by the fact it does not only pertain to individual strength, but also one's will and the potency of their character. The point regarding Zoro using ACOC in his DDG against Kaido is also incorrect; the statement you referred to does not refer to armament haki, it's referring to Zoro's general limit, which at that point in time is his Asura state, furthermore, we've seen Zoro's blade glow that way with Armament Haki alone before, and not even Enma, but also Shisui and co. back in Dressrosa (albeit not as much). Zoro WAS actively using conqueror's haki aura, in Asura, but not imbueing it into his blades, as the sheer thought of doing so was shocking to him afterwards mid-way through his battle with King; otherwise, it's far less likely to assume he was doing this sub-consciously, which is already a stretch in of itself and unfounded. In the commencement of the Rooftop Battle, Base Zoro was the only one to MAKE Big Mom, out of fear, shout to Kaido that Zoro legitimately had to dodge that attack no matter what, which he barely did; furthermore, Zoro did cut Kaido in his base form in more than one attack (Fire Rend and Dragon Twister). Speed wise? Easily surpasses 1008 or 1007's Gear 4th, Boundman, as Zoro point-blank counters an attack Luffy in his Boundman state couldn't even move against, which is when Law teleports Zoro in front of Luffy. Combat speed is superior, Attack Potency at minimum relative, and reaction speed relative as well, UNTIL: Zoro blocks Big Mom's and Kaido's full power, joint-attack, which should surpass any other attack in the series, for a short instant. This is a Base Zoro, without ACOC, without the usage of a named attack to counter, and much less without the usage of Asura; the others thought they'd die from an attack Zoro's defense was capable of stopping for a prolonged period of time, which he did ultimately tank as he got back up afterwards and proceeded to engage the strongest Yonko (potentially behind Blackbeard, who cares?) in combat. Furthermore, even back in Ennies Lobby: Kaku commented on the fact Asura is like a spirit, a demonic spirit, the entire thing concerning Asura is "Demonic Spirit", etc,. Zoro is the King of Hell; its just his conqueror's haki aura, lol. And no, KoH Zoro is not superior to Asura; Asura Zoro is far faster, and the amp in attack potency he receives is still significant; however, KoH is a better swordsman version of Zoro, as he's allowed to take the next step and actively imbue and coat his blades with Conqueror's Haki. Feats Wise, Asura Zoro? Forced a Hybrid Kaido (Who admittedly was using slightly less potency in haki than he was against Gear 5 Luffy) to stagger, though also consider at this point in time Zoro was severely weakened, furthermore, was NOT imbueing his swords in Conqueror's Haki, Zoro then proceeds to SPEED-BLITZ Hybrid Kaido, which Luffy never managed to do, even in Gear 5. Sure, Luffy may have more attack potency thanks to Bajrang Gun, but a Dead Man's Game from a fully healed Zoro in Asura, actively coating his blades in Conqueror's Haki would do exponentially more damage to Kaido than what was shown. Zoro wins in combat speed, reaction speed, and albeit having high attack potency, it may be near Bajrang Gun, but not quite there. If we go off of the match up, Luffy's biggest damage counter ARE sword slices. Luffy has versatility, Devil Fruit wackiness, and attack potency on his side (albeit literally only with Bajrang Gun). I have Gear 5 Luffy winning this extreme-diff regardless. However, the narrative has ALWAYS been Zoro and Luffy are equals/near-equals. Reread One Piece and really understand whats going on next time 👍
1008 and 1007 g4 luffy is inferior to acoc base luffy who fought a serious kaido ( atleast more serious than when he fought zoro ) , luffy had better stats with acoc than the g4 luffy without acoc buff and he then gets g5 physical buffs , luffy has better strength , speed ,durability, endurance ,hax. ,abilites, ap and dc , offence and defense Zoro only gets skills And liffy is far superior in reaction speed cause remember future sight
@@erosensei-hy9ml Wrong, Future Sight is basic precognition with colors, it won’t help when your opponent is faster than you by such an extent. Even then, Zoro also has Observation Haki albeit to a lesser extent. And Base Luffy isn’t superior to the previous iteration of Gear 4, he only landed those hits on Kaido who adjusted his abilities seeing Luffy wasn’t transformed whatsoever, ACOC is a massive AP amp, and Luffy got put down in a single chapter afterwards, literally off-screened. 😭
I understand where you’re coming from but can we take a second to think about that EX dragon attack king used? I doubt Luffy could parry that without using G5, I don’t think G4 kong gun would be able to take out those massive amounts of dragons and even with snake man his punch would have to reach and knock out king before the dragons reach him. Although it is arguable that luffy would never let king survive long enough to use that move, theoretically I don’t see Luffy being able to counter some of kings moves the way zoro did
I don’t necessarily agree with this, for the very reason that one of Luffy’s main weaknesses is slashing attacks, which is Zoro’s specialty and main method of fighting. Luffy is naturally weak to swords. That doesn’t mean that Zoro is on Luffy’s level but I don’t believe the gap between them is that far off.
Oh, not THIS argument....Luffy does NOT have a "weakness to swords". He just doesn't have a borderline immunity to them, like he does with blunt force trauma (which is why it is mentioned so often). So they are more effective on him than punching him in the face. That goes for pretty much EVERYONE. Even freaking Kaido. Its not Luffy exclusive. And tbh, Luffy probably has less of a "weakness to swords" than ZORO does. Know why? Because he is made of rubber. He has an inherent durability buff by being made of a tougher substance than regular human flesh. Its tougher to cut rubber than it is to cut flesh. Full stop. Having a sword isn't the be all end all. Otherwise Garp wouldn't be remotely a threat to Roger, since he only uses his bare hands ro fight, and is a regular ass human.
@@Jb-id1busword are luffy's weakness like magic is superman's weakness. luffy won't be able to tank slashes like he tanks punches. it was already stated multiple times cutting attacks are luffy's weakness
@@bananabarddev kaido can, and very easily. his scales are extremely durable overall and aren’t only resistant to blunt force. big mom can also break blades with her skin, though she isn’t as durable as Kaido obviously
@@ZenZenite You pick two yonko as examples and one is a oni with a dragon zoan... My point is that in general everyone is weaker to slash attacks, using it as a luffy weakness is stupid, the people that are immune are people with some advantage that makes them immune or resistant, take for example Sanji too.
I think at best, he doesn't make it past 3rd gear. If Luffy hits a wall in base form, it's only going to take a speed blitz or a show of force to put him in his place. 4th gear combines the two if he somehow makes it through that, so you can't argue past it
@@TheWolverine___ the glaze is insane he gets past 2 and 3 but he's not touching 4 💀 clashing with one gorosei isn't that impressive either as 1hp kuma was able to punch saturn. each of those guys are like admiral level based on what we've seen
I think King asked it that way, because he didn’t know what kind of king Zoro wanted to be. And I think he was trying to draw out that answer. We see another beast pirate ask if Zoro wants to kill his captain after he becomes Pirate King, and Zoro says heck no. But King doesn’t know that, and I think he might have thought that was the case. Which would explain why he asked it so vaguely. And Zoro answers a vague question with a vague answer, because I think he’s had to have been asked that type of question so many times. His name is “pirate hunter Zoro” after all. However, if King knew his specific dream (greatest swordsman) then he might not have taken so many chances to get cut by Zoro. He might have chosen a different approach to the battle altogether. I think Zoro knew that, and that’s why he gives a vague answer. Especially since knowing info about his opponents has almost always lead to him winning the fight in the past.
@@beasthundred4709 and? its still not close as luffy can dodge said attacks because is not only the captain but the strongest still of the pirate crew.
I'm of the belief Asura is NOT adv conq. It makes no sense to me that Zoro used an ability that all of Kaido's Top 5 share and Kaido comments "oh you have conquerors haki" (like he did with Luffy and Kidd in Act 1) but when Luffy uses adv conq he gets excited and mentions his Top 5 again. Zoro isn't even brought up in the conversation whatsoever, despite Kaido literally being faced with this "supposed" attack. I agree with everything here but I just can't come around to believing Zoro used adv conq with Asura seeing as he did not rely on Enma as much as he does for King of Hell.
First off can we agree that kaido knows wat adv conquers is an if so can we also agree on before Zoro got to the roof top he used adv conquers I think to many folks got the misconception only reason Luffy is so strong is cuz he is the main character to me I think Zoro is on par wit Luffy they took 2 different paths but end up wit the same results Zoro still has the 2nd highest bounty out of the new generation
@@jevonbeasley8241 no one says Luffy is strong cuz he is the mc there are hard proof and feats that just show Luffy outright strogner did u not watch the video?
Not only that, Kaido commenting on CoC means nothing but you have base. He mentions Kidd has CoC, so did Kidd use AdvCoC in their fight before the Wano arc?? Of course not.
@@JT-km6th the difference is kaido only says it when he gets hit by zoro that means zoro was using it in advance form Luffy also figures out about acoc after getting hit from kaido and realizes kaido is coating his conq haki in his attack Plus the fact that zoro does not even know he is using acoc because the sword is doing it for him All leads to the fact that he used it unconsciously which is not anything new Zoro used advance armament against Mr 1 without knowing Luffy used conq haki in pre time skip without knowing Luffy used future sight in marine ford against Mihak to avoid his slashes Mihak even says right after “u seem unusually calm” Katakuri says u need to be calm to use future site People can unknowingly use haki it’s nothing new Zoro even more cuz enma pulls out his conq haki for him that’s the whole reason he even has conq cuz he got enma which pulled out his innate conq to awaken it
Luffy isn’t landing many blows on zoro, his defense (deflecting and dodging) and reaction speed is the some of the most impressive we’ve seen Zoro has things like gorilla 1 and 2 as strength buffs aswell for gear 3
@@JusDion your right fs is a problem but zoro can still be fast enough to react even after getting predicted. But g2 + acoc + fs definitely gives luffy a little edge over zoro but that’s still not enough to actually put Zoro down. Also Luffy barely uses fs
@@fuzzo2734 Gear 2 Luffy would probably demolish Zoro, Sanji is faster than Zoro and Luffy Gear 2 is comparable or might even be faster. There is just no way Zoro is getting past Gear 2 since he just can't match his speed or power, base Luffy can box with Kaido, while Zoro almost died fighting his Vice Captain.
The biggest factor here rn is future sight, which zoro lacks- can we go back to the luffy Vs Katakuri fight to realize how much of a power difference future sight ALONE puts u at? Now, I do think if zoro fought anyone who had future sight he would learn it like luffy did but we can’t assume that he would with luffy, until he learns future sight he won’t stand a chance against any form higher than base luffy
I dont think Zoro was using ACC on rooftop. I think when he was mentioning his limit, he was referring to using his strongest technique. I personally believe that he didn't start using it until his mindset changed vs King. He was legit mentally nerfing himself, as much as it hurts to say.
1. With pre adcoc zoro you have to count in asura. Asura is still Zoro's ability regardless of if he's using ad haki or any haki. So you can't say base pre adcoc luffy is stronger than adcoc zoro as zoro still had asura he just didn't use it. Pre adcoc base zoro had feats on par with g4 luffy and had he used asura it would have been above luffy that's why oda didn't let zoro use it until he was ready to give luffy his new pu. Zoro can always shine with but never out shine luffy. It the same reason he never used adcoa till wano despite having it out of the time skip as that would have made zoro look stronger than luffy. 2. Scaling putting kaido on his back is dumb. Pre ryou luffy and scabbards put kaido on his back. So those characters are stronger than zoro just because of putting him on his back? This is people putting on their super analytical hats to act like they are big brained for no reason. Zoro was just expressing he expected more from his strongest attack. To him it should at least to be able to knock kaido down. It was a clean cut it didn't have a ton of force behind it to move kaido but he expected the damage to at least floor him not for kaido to still be standing. Dead man's game us a clean cut not a cut meant to have a ton of force behind it like tasumaki. 3. Scaling koh to base luffy is just dumb. Base luffy looked the same as g4 luffy vs kaido after he unlocked adcoc. So is adcoc g4= base adcoc luffy? Adcoc allows you to make coc barriers that so far have blocked every attack regardless of strength. It also stacks with everything to massively increase your damage. Yea base luffy using his adhaki should be able to hurt anyone and hang with anyone based on how ad coc and coa works. But this same logic would apply to zoro if he's using the same abilities. Case in point is Lucci where just using adcoc he was able to easily over power him yet he was fighting evenly with him before when he was just using 2 swords and normal haki. 4. Lastly as always with zoro and luffy oda doesn't let zoro go all out but constantly has luffy do it even when he doesn't have to. Zoro's strongest form we know of would be koh asura but oda never let's zoro use it. Oda has been doing this for a while and when it comes to them actually showing what they can do they are always close with the sight edge to luffy. Just in wano alone up until literally luffy gaining adcoc people were say g4 washes zoro even when clearly it didn't. People only started accepting zoro was on par with g4 once luffy unlocked adcoc. This was base zoro with no asura that was on par with g4. If you would have told anyone base zoro was on par with g4 luffy post his ryou training you'd been laughed at yet that was what it was. Luffy and zoro are supposed to have a Roger and Rayleigh type of structure. Saying base luffy is on par with koh zoro would be like saying no sword Roger is on par with Rayleigh its just dumb. You'd basically be saying luffy could neg or low diff zoro when he just couldn't. The same powers that power that luffy got zoro got in adcoc. Currently koh is >= g4 and likely once it's shown g5 >= koh asura.
I don't think Zoro is aware of it either, to him what was happening was all he was doing was allowing enma to stabilize his haki or something like that. He doesn't know he's really using Acoc he thinks it's just enma reacting to his haki
@@doggiestdoge3576 Y cuz they don't have devil fruit or is it cuz they didn't get special training from Raylie or while in prisoned by kaido let's be real bout this now
Yall forget swords have always been a "vulnerability " for luffy. And zoro physicaly manifesting into his Asura form is literally the highest precedence in the story for COC. Nobody else has done this!
I think zoro now can beat luffy the first time he unlocked ACOC he stops at luffy splitting the sky But we have to consider what will happen if zoro (now) uses asura with king of hell? Especially after zoro being able to use it normally which will increase his power like when luffy got beaten by kaido after 1010 but when he returned he was able to split the sky It wasn’t about how weak luffy is rather about how shallow he uses ACOC, so a better application gave luffy the ability to split the sky although his strength was the same what changed was his application.
@@Unamed-xl4re 🙊 that's a rabbit hole 🕳️ I don't think you wanna go down without speculation. Long story short Luffy has two wills inside him. The will/haki of the fruit revived Luffy. How else could a devil fruit without a user evade the world government? it's still a clash of wills because Luffy couldn't control himself or his laughing. Either Nika was going to win the tug of war or luffy and I believe Luffy won. Feel free to discredit my opinion tho it's all speculation until we know more about the gods.
@@Unamed-xl4re it's also implied that kaidos zoan fruit is not compatible with him and was intended for ivankov in his childhood. Which is why kaido doesn't have the mythical clouds around his hybrid form like lucci and luffy. Vega punk said as much about compatibility and that's probably why kaido was suicidal and couldn't awaken his fruit.
Genuinely I thinks it's hard to gauge considering Zoro is using Luffy s main counter as a rubber man (blades) so how would you even gauge them right? Luffy hurt kaido and Zoro hurt kaido, but I think Luffy is better at coming back and doing it over and over till kaido went down, and Zoro sweat way more during that fight
I honestly dont think they were ever that far, until Luffy started to master the various forms of Haki. Zoro didnt really go all out (post timeskip) until Wano. Luffy mastered observation vs Katakuri, thats when the first gap appeared. Then in Wano he mastered armament, another gap. He mastered conquerors during Roof Piece, and thats where the largest gap happened. Gear 5 is just trolling the entire crew. I agree with the last bit of Zoro not even being close to his peak yet, but G5 Luffy still washes. Zoro still has the basic haki skills that Luffy learned ages ago with Rayleigh. He probably cant even use the basic knockout ability that conquerors haki gives you. We are seriously lacking a Zoro based arc that gives him a major power up.
Is this even a question? Luffy is literally beating up everybody using only his fist, his BARE HANDS. If you give him a sword he will beat you up with his fist while holding said sword. Conqueror's Haki is the pure will to beat you up with his bare hands. He uses his Gear 5 just to put you at ease while he goes to town on your body.
The problem is people seem to ignore the fact that a Luffy while only using Gear 3 and his Haki + ACOC was going toe to toe with Kaido and was even matching his attacks now imagine how much stronger he gets if he uses Gear 4th with ACOC i just dont see Zoro Matching this level of power in KING OF HELL when he could barely track King with his flames off who Kaido should be faster then
I hope Kaido is alive, because it feels really shallow that Kaido doesn't live to tell the tale that Zoro has cut him or walks around with Zoro's scar. I know he was acknowledged on the rooftop, but it would be nice if he still roams around with Zoro scar on top of Oden's
As 2nd in command he HAS TO BE able to compete with the captain if needed and also protect the whole crew if the captain goes down so i think hes closer to luffy then we think
So long as you think Zoro doesn't beat Gear 4 Luffy, your answer is technically vaild 👍
Big lie zoro beat lucci in lucci form immediately zoro got serious , luffy went into gear 5
For lucci before he could even harm lucci but lucci got back up and even matched him a bit , trust me luffy knows zoro strength and im sure he will
Go into gear 5 immediately , cuz there is no way zoro won’t surpass his gear 4 , zoro even harmed kaido in his greatest form while zoro already taken two
Emperor attack all to himself
@@bluenight2322wrong when luffy went into gear 5 he was toying with lucci. He would beat him with gear 4 or gear 2 easily he didn't need 5 to beat him. Get zoro passed kaido then we can talk. Zoro loses to gear 2 luffy with all types of haki. Stop glazing zoro
@@godkillerdemonkingjc luffy isnt kaido level
@@p_ct8953yeah he’s stronger
@@bluenight2322did you miss the part where zoro was huffing and puffing and him not able to run ? Jimbei is corrently carrying him zoro didn't just got serious and beat lucci instantly zoro thought he was going to lose when sanji said his to weak and zoro pushed his body to the limit that lucci put him at his limits just cause oda didnt show the entire figth your ignoring the damage lucci did .
Yeah he took on 2 emperors attack by himself but that just means he can endure attacks not tank them and fight more not like kaido did he took 10 people attacking and he still can sink the island whith internal bleeing concutions broken bones from ryo attacks and him getting cut while zoro was in deaths bead .
And the to correct you on something cause im sure your a anime watcher but in the manga the fight luffy vs lucci on egg head gos completly differently but still shows how luffy was just playing with lucci he didnt just got up after the battle he got patched up by stussy you seen the part where lucci was covered in bandeges after the fight in the anime right? They skip the part where lucci was K.O for a minute and was getting bandage and was warning lucci he shouldnt have fight emperor without a order but lucci refuse the idea luffy was a emperor.
I disagree with Zoro not knowing he’s coating his swords with conquerors haki. Maybe he doesn’t realize it’s specifically conquerors haki but him creating a whole new 3 sword style heavily implies he’s aware of his strength improving by a good margin.
he ddint create a new style he said king of hell in reference to king saying this is hell for you guys
@@Yeeyeehubbard wasnt it because enma is the ruler of Hell and zoro conquers enma becoming the king of hell
Enma forces the user's haki to coat the sword. Zoro was using conquerors during King's fight, so it's not about Zoro using Acoc, enma just does it.
Kaido used acoc on Yamato, he didn’t even use haki or named attack on zoro in their ckash
@@beasthundred4709it's still zoros haki otherwise he would die
Zoro needs to invest in some good powerups if we're gonna get another Whiskey peak level fight between the 2 again.
How can u say that wen of course the main character is goin to win the fight think about if Zoro beat Luffy he loses his whole crew off top so now he alone ok who's to say Luffy still get all these power ups the training etc. Zoro is the rite hand man but not the main character I think switch the roles an tell me how u see it
We’ll never get another whiskey peak. Mainly because it was extremely out of character for them to be fighting. Luffy always has extreme faith in his friends. Yet when he saw Zoro fighting baroque works who were masquerading as townsfolk he instant assumed Zoro had did wrong instead of hearing him out.
@@kingmanga8575 I never said the fight, I meant the intensity, when both characters seek to put the other 6 ft under. Either of them could be mind controlled, for example.
@@Memelord1117 It is possible that Luffy could lose his will to the fruit, thus endangering the crew and forcing Zoro to try setting him straight. Every time Luffy starts doing crazy shit that the rest of them don't have time for, Zoro is the one to stand up to him. Because he's the only strawhat that actually has a chance of knocking sense into Luffy besides Nami.
@@nathanwelling8948 Nami canonically hits as hard as Kaido. Thanks for coming to my TED talk
King didn't parry purgatory onogiri , he dodged it very late , anime confirms it,King with flames on dodged and blocked all of zoros KOH attacks
he definitely got hit with that bird dance tho
Yeah he did😭
"Anime confirms it" is wild😂😂
Anime isn’t canon
@akpade ye it's not even the kaido clash is different
Best estimate, Gear 4 with advanced Conqueror's would probably be where Zoro stops. Zoro may be dang strong, but his speed is no where near the insane multiplicative power and speed stacking that Bounceman has, much less Snakeman. G5 is out of the question.
You're joking right? Current Luffy gear 2 is enough to beat Zoro.
If we involve the powerful conquerors haki luffy have and even his observation haki he learned against katakuri, zoro doesn’t even stand a chance against the gear 2 luffy
@@bogart7498 No. One serious hit from Zoro gets any gear of Luffy below g4 at like 50% hp. Zoro AP is yonko level, unfortunately that's his only outstanding stat.
@@bogart7498 G2 aint tanking Asura like Kaido
@@k1ngofel1te6tbf gear 2nd won’t stand still and get hit
This is probably one of those vids that one piece fans cant argue with
UNDENIABLE
One piece fans are never agreeing on anything
I beg to differ, Zoro glazers can and will cook up something insane to justify why even G5 loses.
@@Deode-d4h😂 as a Zoro Stan myself I constantly remind the ones with there heads in the clouds to really come back down to earth and really think logically here…Gear 4 Luffy maybe bounceman is where Zoros strength could *ALMOST* be at and that’s at full power and I don’t think his speed is at snakeman level so to even think it’s able to take on Gear 5 is laughable but there’s a lot of people that just don’t wanna hear it I get you 😂 insanity 🗡️ ⚔️
yes we can this take is absolute ass 😂😂
The issue with the whole base Luffy with g2/g3 being Yonko level (which is obviously above admiral level) is the fact that Luffy was struggling pretty hard against Kizaru while he was using Gear 4. Admirals can DEFINITLY defeat Sky splitting YONKO, BUT NOT if the Yonko actually get SERIOUS. Being able to split the sky with EASE shows that you are a Yonko, SO it DOESN'T mean that Admirals will lose in a fight to that character's base form (going off the fact that all the Yonko with confirmed ACOC have shown to split the sky in BASE).
Tbf, Luffy immediately went Gear 5 instead of Luffy using more of his ACoC in Gear 4. Not saying that Gear 4 + ACoC is superior to Kizaru, but I think Luffy under that form can do a much better job.
@@mstr293 I think him using Gear 5 is important to improve Stamina,Stability and Mastery over the form
Luffy never used conqueror coating on his snakeman form, or his base when he fought Lucci. That's why people overhype both of them over the likes of Kaido
Luffy didn’t struggled against kizaru he toyed with him AND Saturn
@guts7099 Why would Luffy not use acoc against an enemy that he himself identified as being really strong? Just because there was no lightning or anything doesn't mean much when after he learned it, he kept using it on Kaido, but there was no lightning when he was hitting Kaido while in Snake Man.
Since kaido openly stated he was using it. I don't think card matters.
But the voice of all things is still an alternative option if one was needed since we never really got a proper explanation on what that really was
@@shayoko6 asking the right questions.☝🏾
Saying that Zoro's Asura: Dead Man's Game is weaker bcause of the 20-30 broken bones is a bit disingenuous because that would imply that Luffy's Bajrang Gun was weaker when he KO'd Kaido, or that his King Cobra was weaker when he "KO'd" Katakuri..
I think its more apt to say that characters can output 100% of their energy & AP when they do their final attacks regardless of the state their in..
No lies here. Well thought out, throughly explained, and accurate. Awesome video homie 🔥
how tf do you have so little subs?? let’s help get this man up!
Maybe I'll say 'Conqueror's coating' next time instead, fack me 💀💀
Advanced conquerors is the coating. We've only came up with the term advanced conquerors because of the "final form". Most conquerors users dont coat it, Luffy had to realise it against Kaido and Big Mom showing that they were the only ones using that skill
I was there when "advanced haki" was purely theoretical. It's ever since Katakuri that we as a community really started to dig. Conquerors had no solid evidence apart from one statement.
Shanks being able to knowdown all Fishman compared to Luffy who got half. That was the one and only clue
Nah, it's literally the same, don't sweat it
I think all of the fan base are missing a very important point 😅 Oda doesn't care about fight nor does he care about power scaling.
Oda only care about the story being fun , he will make any character weak or strong based on what will make the story more "fun".
I think it's also important to note that a blunt fighter such as luffy who doesn't have any cutting attacks barely has any way to actually scar anyone. It's all internal damage for him. That aspect can't really be compared 1 to 1
Zoro, no matter what health he had was not going toe to toe with Kaido on the rooftop for long, Yamato, went for at least 20 to 30 minutes, and Kaido told her he was serious.
Yamato is also not weaker than King, King would be decimated for Kaido.
@@BoomBoxBlazmy nigga, take post king fight zoro and he does better than Yamato, he did more damage without acoc so 🤷🏾♂️
Yamato wasn't going toe to toe either, he was losing quite badly and even admits he didn't block Kaido's thunder bagua like at all. Zoro on the other hand gave Kaido a permanent scar.
@@Shoddragonshe's a girl my bro 🙏🏻
@@Tofu_b01she identifies as oden she’s attracted to males *confirmed* but she only calls her self a male to be like oden she she identifies as oden but she’s a girl.
Base Luffy with Acoc, Aobs, Aarm keeping up with hybrid Kaido
Something zoro can't do cz kaido let him hit
@gucciusmaximusi5099 zoro couldn't do shit, it was a short battle lol
@michalvrabec454 he just said zoro was half dead😂😂
@@QuentonGriffin-he3qf whitebeard was half-dead in marineford and still beat akainu's ass, lol
@michalvrabec454 u must didn't see the manga cuz akainu put holes in white turd and took half of his face white turd was getting bodied and kaido and zoro gap in power is bigger than the gap in power white turd and akainu had💀💀
Fair logic though I think if Oda actually did illustrate it, Zoro would rival gear 4 Luffy and maybe even win against that gear.
Mostly because Oda would want the fight to be interesting. Gear 5 though… hard to say if that gear will ever be really challenged until the final arc of one piece.
Happy to be your 600th subscriber.
The talks about luffy knocking down kaido while zoro didn't doesn't mean anything. Zoro never knocks down his opponents, he uses swords, he cuts into his opponents he doesn't know them around. Luffy knocks his opponents around alot but those attacks regularly do less damage to his opponents than zoro does.
the fact that this man only has 262 subscribers is the wildest thing i heard all week u def just earned a new subscriber
Oda has kept Zoro relatively close to luffy. They were even at whiskey peak, they were even pretty much all the way to ennies lobby. Even saboady he was about to kill a celestial dragon, and then luffy punches one. Benn beckman is said to be on par with Shanks. Rayleigh was said to be close to Roger and was considered a partner with Roger, which is the same relationship with Zoro and luffy
yeah it will probably be a similar case to that type of portrayal. Just that right now Luffy is being portrayed to be at a power level that leaves a massive gap between them.
How? the king of hell transformation is on par wit gear 5 oda gave the top 3 straw hats which were Luffy Zoro Sanji.
You cant honestly believe king of hell is anywhere near g5 pls explain
@@tevinm4292 Can u explain to me how it's not then Zoro doesn't have a devil fruit but he has defeated every person he faced wit a devil fruit. On the other hand Luffy has a devil fruit one the most powerful devil fruits in the series the characters that know Joy boy doesn't call Luffy in gear 5 Luffy they call him Joy boy that alone speaks for itself so basically anybody that gets that transformation will be called Joy boy not who they really are now back to wat u asked me explain to u how it's on par ok first off we are talkin bout a devil fruit user vs a non devil fruit user Luffy is rubber Zoro is flesh an bones they both put in work to get where they are now but luffy has a stamina problem where Zoro doesn't why? Cuz Zoro trained an built his body to the strength he has now where Luffy got stronger through transformations an special haki training wit Raylie Zoro was never trained on haki he used it as he learned all he was told was if u get strong enough u can turn yo blades black also enma drains yo haki from yo body to the sword taking away from the actual fighter power using enma gear 5 doesn't drain the fighters haki it boosts it Luffy an Zoro been neck an neck the whole series literally Zoro isn't stronger than Luffy but also Luffy isn't stronger than Zoro the are on par wit each other evenly matched the reason u are saying he's stronger is cuz of a devil fruit an training Luffy was given a long the way Zoro doesn't know how to use rio but Luffy does beat kaido without gear 5 hell gear 4 couldn't even beat big mom to be honest
@@jevonbeasley8241luffy and zoro been neck to neck only at whiskey peak and that 1000 chapters ago ,after alabasta luffy has never been close to zoro atleast after thriller bark ,luffy>>zoro
Even if Conqueror's Haki can only be strengthened by getting stronger, that doesn't mean equally strong people have equally strong Conqueror's Haki.
We know that Luffy is more talented in Conqueror's Haki than any other color, so talent has to be a factor for the potency.
If ACoC is a proportional buff, than luffy should have a higher multiplier than zoro
Did u not watch the video?
@@MicaW4VE I did, but what the video said was (slightly) different. It says that luffy has a higher nominal increase but the same proportional one (the example given didn't strictly fit that, but I think that was just for simplicity's sake.). I'm saying that Luffy should have a higher proportional increase as well.
It's kinda irrelevant because I agree with his conclusion regardless, but I think luffy would have a higher ACoC buff even if Zoro was just as strong otherwise.
People forget that throughout the last fight on the rooftop and his fight with king, he was already way past his limit in exhaustion with multiple broken bones at that. Meanwhile King was hardly sweating after his skirmishes with Marco and Sanji so it's not really a fair comparison. The best comparison we got is how both Luffy and Zoro were playing around with awakened Lucci and both won the fight as soon as they used a named attack. Now that doesn't mean they're equal, not even close. Current Zoro would not last more than MAYBE 5 minutes against g5 Luffy and would probably be unable to do any meaningful damage to him, but that's mostly just because of how ridiculous G5 is rather than Zoro lacking in ability. Snakeman/Boundman would be a closer fight, very hard win for Luffy with odds of 6 times out of 10 with Luffy's speed and future sight being the biggest influence on the fight. In other words: Zoro cannot tank a king king.. KING kong gun from Acoc Luffy without major damage or even being knocked out, but neither is Luffy tanking asura without major damage or being knocked out.
Zoro would die to a King Kong gun
You mean king kong gun is stronger than the combined attack of kaido and big mom ?@@BIuezy
@@BIuezy Doffy survived
I mean zoro took the combined attack from big mom and kaido even if only for a few second nobody else even thought about trying to contest it but him, that alone makes me believe zoro would probably block or deflect a kong gun
Yes, well said. It's not that zoro is weak or anything ,it's just that G5 luffy is a beast. He's arguably one of the top fighters in the verse
nice video bro
*LUFFY'S THE MAIN CHARACTER* moving on
I think Egghead really kinda changes the results of this video imo. The fight between the strawhats/cp0 and the seraphim has Zoro/Sanji/Hybrid Lucci/ G4 Luffy all doing similarly well against the Seraphim and Luffy directly comparing Seraphim durability to Kaido sorta confirms this as well. Then we have the fact that Luffy isn't really able to do much to any of the Gorosei without Gear 5th while Sanji and Zoro could do some stuff, Sanji blocking several of Kizaru's attacks and taking a kick to the face from him with no real damage, Zoro ultimately taking down Awakened Lucci once he got really serious in one attack (which is impressive because Awakened Lucci was still capable of putting up somewhat of a fight against G5 Luffy), etc.
I'd probably say that G5 Luffy>>>Zoro>Sanji>Current G4 Luffy.
Lunarians have the highest durability in the verse, Gorosei don't really count since they have extremely and highly-regenerative abilities, however Warcury is probably even more durable than Kaido regardless, at least a Base Kaido, who knows about a Full-Zoan or Hybrid Kaido.
Lucci put up no fight against G5 , Luffy didnt even get hit by him in the manga. Also the only gorosei Luffy had a problem with was warcury , besides the regeneration they have he was straight up so hard that it hurt luffy , which is insane. Nothing zoro or sanji have done confirms they are ahead of G4 luffy
@@latima123ify and the fact that luffy never used acoc in gear 4 against kizaru nor the seraphim’s and I would say base luffy with acoc > gear 4 with plain haki
I agree with this
@@latima123ify Zoro wasn’t even serious against Lucci until the very end, where he nearly oneshotted him with a named attack and without ACOC.
If we are going to claim Zoro was serious against Lucci through the entirety of the fight, we’ll have to assume he was also serious against Apoo despite Zoro having the help of X Drake, right?
You people only support characters when it benefits your biased agenda 😂
That thumbnail is so sick
I think it's more interesting to see how many arcs behind in power Zoro is to Luffy.
- beginning of whole Cake Luffy ≈ Cracker (average Commande
- end of Whole Cake Luffy ≈ Katakuri (first Commander)
-> End of Wano Zoro > King (first commander)
So post Wano Zoro >≈ End of Whole Cake Luffy
Basically 1 arc behind.
I will be honest and Just say.
In gear 5 Zoro does not stand a chance.
But gear 4 really?
I think Zoro extreme to high diffs Gear 4.
Only time we see Zoro getting pushed to his absolute limit is against Kaido and then he get's new boost.
I just think it's unfair to say.
A Gear 4 luffy which is way below Kaido level.
Is stronger then Same Zoro who scarred Kaido and got a very big power up.
Realize this Luffy fans because I know you guys are more delusional then us Zoro fans which is a hard task to do.
All out Zoro is stronger then Luffy with gear 4 by a small margin.
But after Gear 5 the power difference becomes way too big for Zoro to compete.
Bro just said Luffy fans are more delusional 😂
Zkk was a thing buddy, and the fact you even think Zoro could beat gear 4 Luffy is even more hilarious. Zoro meatmunchers back at it
Emma is Zoro's advanced haki usage teacher. But is failing at letting him understand what he's doing 😅
they are complete opposites and are relative in strength as it should be. They make up for each others weaknesses.
luffys way of fighting is chaotic. zoro is more precision based.
luffys body is rubber, zoro is flesh and bone.
luffy cant swim, zoro can
luffys stamina is an issue. zoro breaking bones drops his AP considerably.
luffys specialty is conquerors haki, Zoros is armament (ppl gotta stop talking like luffy has trained armament as much as zoro. gear 5th is proof that the nika doesnt need hardness when it can turn its surrounding into rubber)
luffy is weak to slashing atks and zoro fights nothing but enemies that are extremely difficult to cut.
voice of all things and breath of all things.
the only two straw hats we see train.
both luffy and zoro have the same fighting spirit.
It is funnny that op community actually believe that rubber has a chance against Steel sword.
Bro are you still pre timeskip? 😂😂 the rubber guy has fists that when they turn black they are as hard as steel now
Luffy can make his swords into rubber and useless
@@zaynali5588 haha. Classic delusional OP fan
@@Tim999-xl5kx Still Luffy haki is God tier Zoro will never reach that point coz he not The MC
@@Tim999-xl5kx It's not delusional when he can turn the literal ground, lightning, clouds, buildings, etc. around him into rubbery material.
So I disagree with rooftop zoro being weaker than gear 4th luffy. The difference in power between that one sword style slash that zoro shot at kaido is relative to the gear 4th luffy who did that long Gatling against kaido. Even though during zoro’s use of ashura on the rooftop had conquerors haki emanating from it, that doesn’t erase the possibility of rooftop zoro possibly having a non conquerors buffed ashura in his bag. Ashura’s been done by zoro before without conquerors so there’s no reason to believe he wouldn’t be able to do it without conquerors.
Also you only discussed attack power. Which in terms of lethality, zoro should be superior since swords are obviously more lethal fists. Luffy was knocked out by one thunder bagua on the rooftop and zoro blocked a combined ocean sovereignty attack. So defense and durability would go to zoro as well as endurance and stamina since luffy had multiple breaks on the rooftop before zoro used ashura.
It wouldn’t be crazy that zoro is as strong as or stronger than luffy on the rooftop at that time, since that segment wasn’t that prolonged in the overarching fight.
I think the damage kaido took from both zoro and luffy crude application of conquerors goes to zoro too. Luffy had just got back up from resting and took no damage that would limit him from continuing to move. Zoro had almost every bone in his body broken. We know ashura isn’t a one hit move, he stays on that form. Zoro didn’t pass out because ashura drained him. He passed out because of the damage he took. And that was the limit of his endurance.
Look what a king of hell attack did to rob lucci and look what all luffy’s gear 5th attacks did.
I say all this to say KoH Zoro high diffs gear 4th luffy. But gear 5th provides such a jump in power than it low-mid diffs zoro.
So you're basically say if you swap Luffy with Zoro in chapter 1042 in his fight drunken Kaido, Zoro's gonna be able to not only somehow hang with drunken Kaido, but do BETTER than Snakeman and Bounceman Luffy? Not. A. Chance.
1. Zoro blocked hakai with his swords, not with his body, so durability doesn't go to zoro. Also, the only direct hit zoro took from kaido was thunder Bagua, while luffy took a ragnarok, which is stronger.
You could argue endurance, but definately not durability.
2. Its very unlikely zoro is stronger than luffy in rooftop because against kaido, there's a matchup issue. That doesn't translate to power. Killer in comparison did far better against kaido than kid did but that's cause he's a good match for kaido. If we take into account absolutely everything that luffy can do, wich includes a form of g4 that only future sight and superspeed can properly deal with (both of which zoro doesn't have) and it's clear luffy is indeed more powerful than zoro. Zoro is better specifically in lethalness and has an advantage through swordsmanship, but a fight is more than that.
3. The damage luffy did with his unmastered acoc is implied to be superior or at the very least equal to ashura's because the potency of luffy's haki is higher than zoro's. This is implied when zoro said he couldn't knock kaido on his knees but luffy had him on his back. In top of that, there are no indication that zoro's cut had any impact in kaido's combat performance.
4. Koh zoro is losing to g4 coc luffy 100%. Unlike zoro, luffy doesn't have stamina issues with his acoc while zoro actually does. G2-g3 acoc Luffy would already be a challenge for koh zoro cause luffy's acoc is stronger than zoro's, in g4 luffy is Physically stronger than in g2, and is faster on top of being able to fly. Let's also not forget than he was future sight too. Zoro would be overwhelmed. If kaido of all people had to resort to future sight to deal with acoc g4, zoro is losing. There's 0% chances he wins.
@@svz1345 1. Zoro block hakai with his swords. But his body has to brace the brunt of the attack, that’s how force works. The energy has to transfer somewhere otherwise it wouldn’t make sense as to how other parts of his body ended up broken. Even if not all of the force was taken by zoro, the combined force was enough to kill all 5 supernova. If anyone else would have attempted that, they would have died and they said that. Even kid who is able to tank massive amounts of damage was taken back.
2. It being a match up issue for luffy just gives credence to how Zoro would have the advantage in more match ups. And if you want to argue that luffy performed better upon unlocking acoc than zoro, that can’t really be taken into consideration since zoro was in such a critical condition after saving luffy and the other supernova. A health zoro was performing better than luffy on the rooftop before the acoc buffs. Awakened lucci was able to keep up with and tank 3 attacks from gear 5th luffy. The jump from gear 4th luffy to gear 5th took luffy from getting casually kicked away and block by kisaru to luffy being able to one tap and man handle him. That same lucci was taken out by just 1 three sword style non KoH attack with acoc. Luffy speed and future sight in gear 4th would not be enough to keep up with zoro. Kaido was “overwhelmed” by snake man luffy attack speed because he was drunk and sluggish. Luffy needed acoc to damage kaido zoro did not, his advanced armament was enough to significantly damage kaido. Seeing as big mom frantically warned kaido to dodge zoro’s attack.
3. We don’t know if luffy acoc was superior. Luffy uses blunt attacks with a lot of force behind it and is literally made out of rubber. Rubber has very elastic properties which helps with causing things or people to be pushed by when hit by it. We can’t really compare the effects of kaido getting pushed onto his back and zoro causing mountains of blood to gush out of kaido in a similar way. On top of that it seems like a lot of people don’t stress how injured zoro was and his fight ending with kaido having to do with a lack of ability to stay conscious after all the damage taken and not just a lack in actual combat ability. Had zoro stayed up, it looked like he would have put up just as good of a fight as luffy did before he was knocked off the rooftop. It’s not like zoro ran out of haki or strength. His body hit an endurance limit due to hakai. I understand the story implications of zoro not being able to put kaido on his knees. But that’s also a severely weakened version of zoro.
4. Zoro hasn’t shown any stamina issues with KoH as of the latest chapter in egghead and shows the ability to use ACoC outside of king of hell too. Luffy superiority in strength is offset in zoro’s lethality and luffy’s rubber aspect not working against blades. I doubt luffy is more durable than kaido and seeing as zoro can scar kaido I’m sure he can do significant damage to luffy. Like I mentioned previously gear 5th luffy and three sword style zoro both blitzed awakened lucci. I don’t think zoro is close to gear 5th luffy in speed. But I believe, due to that feat and how big of an overall increase gear 5th adds to luffys physical ability, that gear 4th luffy would be slower than KoH zoro. What has gear 4th luffy done that could place him above a health KoH zoro. And the only thing that’s faster about luffy in gear 4th snakeman is his attacks. Not his actual movement speed. And zoro is known for being able to specifically react to fast attacks.
Ik yall hold luffy in high esteem because yall think he went blow for blow against kaido in gear 2 and 3 on the rooftop, but kaido was not going out and luffy had got dispatched quickly. Even in gear 4th he was getting bodied. The jump to gear 5th wasn’t clear enough to most of the community until egghead when we expected a gear 2 luffy to handle kizaru. But that didn’t happen. Shoot even gear 4th luffy couldn’t really do much to kizaru. So he went gear 5th.
@SecondSoulo the fandom just likes to glaze luffy to all end, some are saying base luffy beats sanji and zoro simply because he was clashing with kaido after his buff for a while (mind u he gets completely overwhelmed afterwards), implying base luffy is somewhat EQUAL to hybrid kaido?? Its so absurd, what i hate the most and u clarified is, there always comparing luffy to basically a nerfed zoro, luffy gets the most rest time in a fight compared to anyone in the verse x10 , and eating food replenishes his strength seriously? Not fair, ur right rooftop zoro was arguably the strongest before they split up, people who say current zoro "has no control of his acoc as it drains more off him than luffy" arent making any sense, its really not hard to read, 1) zoro is already tired, 2) zoro without control of enma is basically nerfing his stam in exchange for higher haki output cuz everyone apart from luffy use their haki sparringly, whereas luffy with his gears use it all out to compete with top tiers hence why he has that 10 min cd without using haki... and since doflamingo hes being so lucky to escape during those times its unbelievable
@@FTL_SAN gear 4 could've did way more into kizaru if he didn't get launched into the lasers plus u can litterallly see Luffy go from snake man to bounceman to reduce the damage from being hit through the lasers
Zoro is likely admiral level, and Luffy trashes admirals, excluding Sengoku. He'd have to surpass Kaido and Shanks before fighting Mihawk, though, so maybe by the end of the series Zoro and Luffy will be equals depending on how strong Luffy's opponents will be.
at the end of the story, zoro might end up beating mihawk, so zoro is going to be stronger than mihawk and also shanks since mihawk arguably equal with shanks. a person that stronger than shanks must be roger, so let's say zoro will be on roger level, which is super super strong. but luffy is going to be on joyboy level, even stronger than roger
@Sulejmani775 We do not know how Roger scales to Joyboy, nor how Mihawk scales to Roger. Mihawk could very well be on a level above Roger since he has a black blade and characteristics that suggest he's stronger than an average Yonko. Thus, I said that it depends solely on how strong the opponents Luffy will face shall be. If they're stronger than Mihawk, then yes, Luffy will be stronger than Zoro. The point is, we do not know how strong Mihawk is. Maybe I'm overrating him, and he's a fodder like people say, no idea. The only things we've seen is that Shanks is able to one-shot somebody as strong as Kidd and that Mihawk no longer considers Shanks an opponent strong enough to be his rival, which may or may not be true, only Oda knows honestly lol. We've also seen him clash with Vista for a suspiciously long period of time, but it's unlikely that he gave his all in that clash, I'm guessing he would've annihilated Vista if he was serious given the fact his ordinary sword slashes are as destructive as the named attacks of certain characters.
Zoro isn’t admiral level yet. Admirals aren’t even shown to be any different in power level to the yonkos. At least the old admirals.
@ascended313 Yes they are? Kizaru was way weaker than a Yonko, he's around King/Katakuri's level if anything.
@@Vortex-qb2se there’s no way you are serious.
If luffy is at 100. Zoro is 5 😂
If Luffy is 100 zoro is 85+
@@fuzzo2734 more like 60
@@fuzzo2734 *huff huff* rob gucci it's too tough , I will need oden's haki *huff huff*
60-70
@@frankalves9955tbf gear 5 luffy didn't keep lucci out either.
Not even gonna read the comments, if you think they are then you also must think Zoro isn't trying til his bandana is on
Idk man look at how long it took Zoro to try post time skip. Luffy was just struggling with commanders last arc, Zoro beat his first commander AFTER fighting some emperors
@@rob6912 You can't be serious😂😂, who has Zoro fought since the time skip that's on Katakuri's level BEFORE wano? Didn't he get sent off the cliff by the yeti cool brothers? Couldn't do anything to fujitora (couldn't even get to doffy) and he used his strongest 3 sword style just to beat Pica who's still weaker than vergo......Please take his 4th sword out your mouth, Zoro gets his attacks weaved by base carrot
@@ReesesDaGod exactly the point, he didn't need 11 hours to beat his first commander. Luffy and Sanji have both been using their pre time skip strongest forms all over the new world and Zoro has barely pulled out ashura. Zoro launched an attack while being crushed by gravity 🤣 he wasn't worried about fujitora
@@rob6912talk to umm all these luffy and Sanji glazers need to read/ watch one piece before they start talking 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@rob6912 Zoro couldn't unleash ashura until he got enma to help him use his conquerer's haki. He didn't he know he had it until kaido told him so he actually HAS been going all out with what he's learned
zoro is FAR closer to sanji than he is to luffy
Can zoro even cut sanji anymore? Sanji took a sword cutting to the neck from Queen without even caring.
@@st3pwisezoro ain’t queen
@@pedrahits717 indeed. But still, just standing there, letting Queen (who, I suppose, is stronger than Zoro, who cut steel in Alabasta) cut his neck with full force, and the sword breaks in 2.
@@st3pwiseQueen is shit lol. Weevil would probably body him
@@st3pwise sanji is not more durable than kaido or king and zoro skared kaido and made king dodge with his flames on and queen ap is terrible
So many underrated yters
Another win for the Emma carries Zoro debate 😂
Isn't Enma actively against Zoro? Zoro had to let Enma drain his Haki so it can be stable
Enma doesn't "carry" Zoro but it'd be an outright lie if we pretend like Enma isn't a huge boost to Zoro's abilities. Big Mom specifically warned Kaido about the sword itself not Zoro demonstrating how strong the sword was.
Enma is clearly being used as a tool to draw out Zoro's latent power but idk if I'd say it's carrying him. Zoro even mentions that Enma drawing out so much haki from him is its way of TESTING him, seeing if he is truly worthy to wield it. Also yea Big Mom warns Kaido about Enma because Zoro was using Enma to attack him LMFAO. It was a one sword style technique using Enma so obviously Big Mom would warn Kaido about the singular weapon being used to attack him.
@@doctorsam5771either way it was stated that a regular swordsman would die if they wield enma which means the only reason enma is able to amplify zoros power is because zoro has the ability to wield enma without dying.
@@dummy8698 I mean yeah, Fodders can't carry Enma, Oden was carrying Enma since he was a teenager.
Subed nice vid👍
If you follow the logic that your acoc buff is relative the user's strength, then the base Luffy after awakening Gear 5 would be significantly stronger than the one that split the sky with Kaido! (Forgot to add that)
10:56 Kaido said “that wind was good”😭😭
you need to consider the fact that Zoro is a swordsman, which is the natural enemy of Luffy... Zoro uses slashing or cutting attacks while luffy uses blunt attacks (punches, kicks,etc.) this difference shows in the impact they have on their opponents... Luffy wouldn't be able to beat king while zoro did even when luffy can generate more power than king and at the same time zoro couldn't bring kaido to his knees while luffy could because kaido was more susceptible to blunt attacks...
Zoro cant even touch luffy, luffy s hakis are all superior to that of zoros.
If luffy uses hardening, zoro cant cut him.
And if luffy uses future sight, zoro cant land a hit
Eh swords aren't his weakness, he's just as vulnerable as Zoro is to a sword slash if not less so due to better haki than Zoro. We see him eat multiple windblades from Kaido while Zoro had to block or dodge the same attack 🤷🏽. We've also seen Lucci clash barehand with Zoro's swords, as have Luffy and Sanji. Hell even Jimbei's blocked swords bare hand too. Try again.
That logic doesn't work in One Piece. It's like you're saying Zoro is immune to sword attacks because he has a sword.
@sidharth3676 Luffy has been fighting against swords his whole life
This is really well thought out and follows proper logic. No matter what you say, however, people will still say Zoro > G5 Luffy because A U R A.
You had 24 comments and 24 subs. Now its 25 and 25
I think you comparing their results against Kaido is kind of accurate but not at the same time. Sure G4 and Base Luffy with ACOC have lasted longer but Zoro's slash ACOC attacks are far different from blunt ACOC attacks from Kaido.
If Base Luffy or G4 Luffy were hit by Asura or even King of Hell it wouldn't be as easy for him to walk off rather than blunt hits from Kaido.
Luffy can take hits from Kaido and Zoro can too but Luffy isn't gonna be getting hit by a club he is going to be getting cut by a blade which in my opinion is deadlier.
I think it Zoro would be able to tank more of Luffy Acoc attacks than Luffy trying to endure Zoros sword attacks.
Imagine if Kaido had a sword instead of a club, the rooftop wouldn't be pretty at all.
Its my belief Oda has showed Zoro & Luffy are in the same tier AP wise. Luffy is obviously superior in all around way but just on that one aspect i see them as close. I feel Wano showcased this. I will say Luffy is moreso at the top end of the tier while Zoro would obviously be lower.Zoro being able to Scar Kaido, Also being strongly implied to be able to kill Kaido and outright breaking through a lunarian defense which is the highest shown . I'm simply saying Zoro is rightfully so in the same tier (Ap wise) because he can kill anyone within the tier if he can connect cleanly
I don't think he would ever be able to kill Kaido and the lunarian defense doesn't apply because he only managed to bring King down with the flames off. I do agree and I think it applies to Sanji too, both of the wings have one special aspect and in that aspect while still outshined by Luffy in every other category they are close. For Zoro it's his AP and for Sanji it's his speed and honestly I would say that with ifrit jambe Sanji is probably faster than Luffy and in a direct AP comparison without haki Zoro also might be slightly above Luffy lowkey.
@@insertcringeynamehere5729Sorry sanji has never been implied to be on their lvl ever... Regarding Kaido tell me what does dodging a sword cut to the neck imply if not death? King was literally being worn down by ACoC and both the anime & manga even show King had his flame on during the last attack
@@trehubb6144 if you notice once king blocks with the flames on he doesnt recieve a direct attack until the final clash where he still has his flames on
Luffy stomps zoro in ap lol, tf is zoro gonna do against luffy s bajrang gun or any conqueror coated attack
@@autisticmonkeyboi6820 yea cuz luffy totally gonna do that agaisnt zoro if he ain't doing it against kizaru
so zoro does more damage with the same conditions but luffy is stronger because he is the captain, zoro does permanent damage with less power than luffy and no fruit but luffy is stronger... guys you forget that zoro literally has the type of damage that can hurt luffy... he cut kaido so luffy would have no chance, kaido hurt luffy with a hammer, same hammer zoro deflected... if you all just says luffy wins after that you all just making no sense, it's not bad that zoro is stronger, they have different goals, that has been a real thing since they meet, zoro has shown the monster he is lots of times even absorbing luffy's pain once and still standing after he already had fight in that same place
there should be a huge gap between them. comparable but never equals
they counter each other on every lvl.
@@JusDion sure they do
@@Mc_nice kaido fully swallowed luffy after zoro told him not to play around. who saved him? hmm seems like zoro is always picking up luffys slack. his battle IQ is arguably better than luffys.
Base luffy negg diff
@@Vaxxx9 get him out the crew then.
Underated channel
In base form Luffy strength is 100 Zoro is 90 Sanji is 88 Jimbie is 85 Franky is 80 Robin and Brook is 75 chopper is 60 Usopp is 50 nami is 40 , but gear five Luffy is 200😂😂😂 twice as strong as Zoro.
Luffy bullied rob lucci while Zoro high diffed him and had an asthma attack mid fight.
After seeing how Luffy manhandled Saturn AND Kizaru, I'm gonna say G5 Luffy mid diffs his entire crew.
How I’d rank them (all in max)
Luffy: 91
Zoro: 75
Sanji: 72
Jimbei: 69
Now for reference:
Shanks: 95
Kaido: 93
Big Mom: 90
Blackbeard: 88 (hacks make him 90+)
Kid: 74
Law: 73
Akainu: 92
Aokiji: 90
Kizaru: 89
Prime Whitebeard: 99
Gol D. Roger: 99
Prime Garp: 98
Gorosei: All in high 85+/low 90 range.
Pirates:
Roger:99
Wb:99
Garp:99
Kaido:97
Big mom:96
Shanks:95
Blackbeard:94
Luffy:93
Zoro:89
Law/kid:86
Sanji/jimbei:85
Admirals:
Akainu:95
Kuzan:94
Kizaru:92
Fuji/GB:91
Elders:
Warcury:91
Nus juro:89
Ju peter:88
Mars:86
Saturn:84
Y'all can never get off that old-gen meat.
Garp is NOT a pirate @@MicaW4VE
you do know luffy would dogwalk kaido at this moment right? in g5, he mid diffed kaido, it was barely a fight luffy was cooking that mf how can you say with a straight face oh yea kaido overall is better than luffy, while luffy has better haki, better fruit and better fighting feats, also kizaru 2 points under luffy but he got repeatedly one tapped by luffy when he got serious, kizaru couldn't do nothing to luffy. bootycheeks list all around
@@ΚρανίΩ
+Kaido was already injured by Zoro
+Kaido was drunk at one point in the fight
+Luffy extreme diffed him, He was barely dealing any damage until bajrang gun
I think it's fair to say Wano Samurai Haki = Advanced Swordsmanship Haki = Advanced Haki/Ryou Haki
IMO Ryou Haki has been stated to be the type of Haki Samurai use in Wano, so one can assume Ryou Haki is pretty much the same principle Samurai use when they infuse their Haki in their swords.
In this case when Luffy uses Ryou, he is basically doing the same thing Samurai do, it's just Luffy applies it on his fists rather than swords.
By Samurai Haki level you can think of the Red scabbards level.
If you can level with me so far, I think it's fair to assume Zoro already had Ryou-Haki/Wano Samurai Haki mastered without knowing it was Ryou Haki.
Although different results; Zoro cutting through both Pica's Haki defense and Kaido- & King's Haki defense & (un)natural tough body is still the same as Luffy dealing inner damage through his fist by dealing penetrating damage using Wano Samurai Haki.
In that same way, although Luffy's Ryou Haki damage dealt can't be seen from the outside, a swordsman dealing penetrating damage like Luffy's Ryou Haki shows in the form of a slash. It still penetrates.
Recalling back Zoro vs Monet, that might have been the same principle of Ryou Haki on display. Back then it was Zoro raising his"intimidation" level, dealing ptsd damage in a sense, but from a different point of view, it might have been a form of Haki close to Ryou Haki level
Before Nikka form it was hella close
good video dude keep it up
Luffy and Zoro are almost equal in strength. But then Gear 5 happened.
Zoro cannot touch Gear 5 Luffy.
nah i think even gear 4 is too much , m about to watch lets see what he says
Base luffy demolish zoro because all of his haki are way stronger he dont even need his DF
Rewatch wano•••| reread Egghead u lost your mind @@Vaxxx9
Nah before gear 5 we gotta give credit to zoro cause he actually damaged Kaido without Enma giving haki to him.
Zoro was equal to Luffy until alabasta.
The only thing Zoro needs to surpass Luffy is to eat GPS GPS no mi devil fruit😂.
7:59 bro Zoro did more damage than Luffy. Luffy punched Kaido this is why he went on the back
No…
@@CynicalJeromezoro left permanent damage luffy really didn't til g5
@@Aldranor im starting to think yall dont think he didnt leave permanent damage he left a permanent scar punching wouldnt scar its impact obviously it wont but a deep slice would leave a scar once it completely breaks skin a punch wouldnt break skin but it could do way more damage than a slice its common sense
@@Aldranor all he did was open up an old scar and even then it still didn’t go all that deep while Luffy without G5 hell even base was doing proper damage and going toe to toe with hybrid kaido.
The gap between rooftop Luffy and Zoro was already huge and thanks to the advanced forms of haki he unlocked during wano that gap is absolutely massive even without gear 5.
Zoro is strong af but luffys can literally do anything. His limit is his imagination.
U guys are insane. Zoro is an opponent worthy of gear 5 and nothing less. He aint beating gear 5 thats not a question but to sit there and say anything less is insane. Just blatantly ignoring the story or pushing your shit agenda if thats any of your conclusions.
How base luffy was cashing with kaido on multiple occasions which zoro straight up couldn’t do
@yeahhnatte7267 that was before Zoro used conquerors coating. Remember Zoro also had nearly all of his bones broken by a combined Hakai attack from Big Mom & Kaido before scarring Kaido.
@@yeahhnatte7267 how is a yonko going to tell another yonko whos known for his durability to dodge an attack that wasnt even coated with conquerors haki? Kaido wasn't in base form at the time too your just picking and choosing random shit to push ur weird agenda
Your the one pushing agenda bout luffy needs g5 to beat Zoro, the level of disrespect and downplaying u people do against luffy is insane g4 acoc is more than enough
@@Ehstynago "no you" type mentality
I love that you used sonic 06 music bro
Base Luffy low diffs zoro
He couldn't even low dif Lucci in base🤣🤣cope harder kid
He couldn't even low dif Lucci in base🤣🤣cope harder kid
He couldn't even low dif Lucci in base🤣🤣cope harder kid
@@QuentonGriffin-he3qfLucci literally asked Luffy what was that appearance he had in his poster and Luffy decided to show him. Not because Luffy couldn't beat him in bass. Luffy has better haki then Zoro. So base Luffy beats him.
@DiegoXRA luffy was about to transform into gear 2 for base lucci before he said that💀💀
id say since zoro with with three blades was able to block and deflect an awakened kaku's nose pistol, he with two blades was able to high mid diff S-Hawk, he with two blades can hold his off with slight difficulty rob lucci prolly like 3 tiers below
Oden lend me some haki this is base lucci we're up against huff huff
Shush
I'm a big Zoro fan, but I have to admit. Zoro was very close to Luffy in the east blue, and after the time skip, before Luffy revealed gear 4th, they were looking very close too. Apart from those times, Luffy is way above Zoro, consistently defeating oponents that Zoro wouldn't have a chance against and making the gap between them bigger in every arc.
Sanji is closer to Zoro than Zoro is close to Luffy.
lmao
Yeah obv
100 percent
very well done vid. Thje way I see it, the gap between Luffy and his commanders(zoro/sanji/jimbei) is either the same or larger than the gap between any yonko and their commanders. Like Kaido is thrashing King/Queen/Jack in base if he's not trolling, same with Big Mom, Shaniks, and Whitebeard.
On a side note, its pretty difficult to scale characters in relation to Kaido as that nigga approaches fights like Goku. Like Luffy was giving hybrid Kaido trouble in base with perfected Acoc, but Hybrid kaido was also giving G5 Luffy trouble because Kaido fights to the level of his opponents if possible.
Luffy 100
Zoro 80-85
Base luffy 100
FP Zoro 25
@gucciusmaximusi5099 Chat we have a Zoro glazer, Zoro never was and never will be above/outright superior to Luffy. Up until maybe Whole Cake he was at least close (outside of like East Blue and the arcs leading to Alabasta they were pretty equal there) but since the end of Whole Cake and especially Wano and Egghead Luffy is leagues above Zoro. Zoro and Sanji is a far closer comparison than Zoro and Luffy.
Zoro is better then gear 4 and below but gear 5 out class’s him
@gucciusmaximusi5099 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 all I can do is laugh
@@insertcringeynamehere5729 he is clearly trying to Bait leave it alone zoro tards watch zoro piece
W video bro
There is much wrong with this video.
Databooks like Deep Blue commenting on the several levels of Conqueror's Haki, especially Databook Yellow which comments on why Shank's conqueror's haki is so powerful, are cemented by the fact it does not only pertain to individual strength, but also one's will and the potency of their character.
The point regarding Zoro using ACOC in his DDG against Kaido is also incorrect; the statement you referred to does not refer to armament haki, it's referring to Zoro's general limit, which at that point in time is his Asura state, furthermore, we've seen Zoro's blade glow that way with Armament Haki alone before, and not even Enma, but also Shisui and co. back in Dressrosa (albeit not as much). Zoro WAS actively using conqueror's haki aura, in Asura, but not imbueing it into his blades, as the sheer thought of doing so was shocking to him afterwards mid-way through his battle with King; otherwise, it's far less likely to assume he was doing this sub-consciously, which is already a stretch in of itself and unfounded.
In the commencement of the Rooftop Battle, Base Zoro was the only one to MAKE Big Mom, out of fear, shout to Kaido that Zoro legitimately had to dodge that attack no matter what, which he barely did; furthermore, Zoro did cut Kaido in his base form in more than one attack (Fire Rend and Dragon Twister).
Speed wise? Easily surpasses 1008 or 1007's Gear 4th, Boundman, as Zoro point-blank counters an attack Luffy in his Boundman state couldn't even move against, which is when Law teleports Zoro in front of Luffy. Combat speed is superior, Attack Potency at minimum relative, and reaction speed relative as well, UNTIL:
Zoro blocks Big Mom's and Kaido's full power, joint-attack, which should surpass any other attack in the series, for a short instant. This is a Base Zoro, without ACOC, without the usage of a named attack to counter, and much less without the usage of Asura; the others thought they'd die from an attack Zoro's defense was capable of stopping for a prolonged period of time, which he did ultimately tank as he got back up afterwards and proceeded to engage the strongest Yonko (potentially behind Blackbeard, who cares?) in combat.
Furthermore, even back in Ennies Lobby: Kaku commented on the fact Asura is like a spirit, a demonic spirit, the entire thing concerning Asura is "Demonic Spirit", etc,. Zoro is the King of Hell; its just his conqueror's haki aura, lol.
And no, KoH Zoro is not superior to Asura; Asura Zoro is far faster, and the amp in attack potency he receives is still significant; however, KoH is a better swordsman version of Zoro, as he's allowed to take the next step and actively imbue and coat his blades with Conqueror's Haki.
Feats Wise, Asura Zoro? Forced a Hybrid Kaido (Who admittedly was using slightly less potency in haki than he was against Gear 5 Luffy) to stagger, though also consider at this point in time Zoro was severely weakened, furthermore, was NOT imbueing his swords in Conqueror's Haki, Zoro then proceeds to SPEED-BLITZ Hybrid Kaido, which Luffy never managed to do, even in Gear 5.
Sure, Luffy may have more attack potency thanks to Bajrang Gun, but a Dead Man's Game from a fully healed Zoro in Asura, actively coating his blades in Conqueror's Haki would do exponentially more damage to Kaido than what was shown.
Zoro wins in combat speed, reaction speed, and albeit having high attack potency, it may be near Bajrang Gun, but not quite there.
If we go off of the match up, Luffy's biggest damage counter ARE sword slices.
Luffy has versatility, Devil Fruit wackiness, and attack potency on his side (albeit literally only with Bajrang Gun).
I have Gear 5 Luffy winning this extreme-diff regardless.
However, the narrative has ALWAYS been Zoro and Luffy are equals/near-equals. Reread One Piece and really understand whats going on next time
👍
GUYS WE FOUND SOMEONE THAT DOESN'T AGREE NO WAY
SIR YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON I HAVE EVER SEEN TO DISAGREE WITH THE EVIDENCE FROM THIS VIDEO
@@Unamed-xl4reg5 at extreme diff is laughable
1008 and 1007 g4 luffy is inferior to acoc base luffy who fought a serious kaido ( atleast more serious than when he fought zoro ) , luffy had better stats with acoc than the g4 luffy without acoc buff and he then gets g5 physical buffs , luffy has better strength , speed ,durability, endurance ,hax. ,abilites, ap and dc , offence and defense
Zoro only gets skills
And liffy is far superior in reaction speed cause remember future sight
@@erosensei-hy9ml agree with most of what u said 👍
@@erosensei-hy9ml Wrong, Future Sight is basic precognition with colors, it won’t help when your opponent is faster than you by such an extent.
Even then, Zoro also has Observation Haki albeit to a lesser extent.
And Base Luffy isn’t superior to the previous iteration of Gear 4, he only landed those hits on Kaido who adjusted his abilities seeing Luffy wasn’t transformed whatsoever, ACOC is a massive AP amp, and Luffy got put down in a single chapter afterwards, literally off-screened. 😭
I understand where you’re coming from but can we take a second to think about that EX dragon attack king used? I doubt Luffy could parry that without using G5, I don’t think G4 kong gun would be able to take out those massive amounts of dragons and even with snake man his punch would have to reach and knock out king before the dragons reach him. Although it is arguable that luffy would never let king survive long enough to use that move, theoretically I don’t see Luffy being able to counter some of kings moves the way zoro did
I don’t necessarily agree with this, for the very reason that one of Luffy’s main weaknesses is slashing attacks, which is Zoro’s specialty and main method of fighting. Luffy is naturally weak to swords. That doesn’t mean that Zoro is on Luffy’s level but I don’t believe the gap between them is that far off.
Oh, not THIS argument....Luffy does NOT have a "weakness to swords". He just doesn't have a borderline immunity to them, like he does with blunt force trauma (which is why it is mentioned so often). So they are more effective on him than punching him in the face. That goes for pretty much EVERYONE. Even freaking Kaido. Its not Luffy exclusive.
And tbh, Luffy probably has less of a "weakness to swords" than ZORO does. Know why? Because he is made of rubber. He has an inherent durability buff by being made of a tougher substance than regular human flesh. Its tougher to cut rubber than it is to cut flesh. Full stop.
Having a sword isn't the be all end all. Otherwise Garp wouldn't be remotely a threat to Roger, since he only uses his bare hands ro fight, and is a regular ass human.
@@Jb-id1busword are luffy's weakness like magic is superman's weakness. luffy won't be able to tank slashes like he tanks punches. it was already stated multiple times cutting attacks are luffy's weakness
@@ZenZenite No one can tank slash attacks, luffy is just immune to blunt force, that isnt really a Luffy weakness xD
@@bananabarddev kaido can, and very easily. his scales are extremely durable overall and aren’t only resistant to blunt force. big mom can also break blades with her skin, though she isn’t as durable as Kaido obviously
@@ZenZenite You pick two yonko as examples and one is a oni with a dragon zoan...
My point is that in general everyone is weaker to slash attacks, using it as a luffy weakness is stupid, the people that are immune are people with some advantage that makes them immune or resistant, take for example Sanji too.
I think at best, he doesn't make it past 3rd gear. If Luffy hits a wall in base form, it's only going to take a speed blitz or a show of force to put him in his place. 4th gear combines the two if he somehow makes it through that, so you can't argue past it
After Zoro won against King he is almost at the same level as Luffy at Gear 4th
Fax don’t know what this guy is yapping about KOH Zoro is getting through gear 2 and 3 lol
Gear 4 with ryuo still wins
@@roronoaDzoro1111the fact that zoro is clashing with a gorosei tells us also he is above 4th gear .
@@TheWolverine___ the glaze is insane
he gets past 2 and 3 but he's not touching 4 💀
clashing with one gorosei isn't that impressive either as 1hp kuma was able to punch saturn. each of those guys are like admiral level based on what we've seen
As whole cake island gear 4 maybe *
Not onigashima luffy.
I think King asked it that way, because he didn’t know what kind of king Zoro wanted to be. And I think he was trying to draw out that answer. We see another beast pirate ask if Zoro wants to kill his captain after he becomes Pirate King, and Zoro says heck no. But King doesn’t know that, and I think he might have thought that was the case. Which would explain why he asked it so vaguely. And Zoro answers a vague question with a vague answer, because I think he’s had to have been asked that type of question so many times. His name is “pirate hunter Zoro” after all. However, if King knew his specific dream (greatest swordsman) then he might not have taken so many chances to get cut by Zoro. He might have chosen a different approach to the battle altogether. I think Zoro knew that, and that’s why he gives a vague answer. Especially since knowing info about his opponents has almost always lead to him winning the fight in the past.
Zoro stalled base lucci for 6 months.
Awakened form is base now ok
@@beepboop4833zoro fans reading a different story I swear
Buddy manga release time doesn’t = in story time at the most they was fighting for 20minutes
@@yeahhnatte7267 Why do you say that?
zoro had already just mention before getting to egg head that every time they fight they get stronger. he knows how to forge a blk blade.
The lucci fight already settles that Zoro needs more
Zoro was not even in Ashura form. It's Nika vs Ashura, and G4 Luffy vs Base Zoro.
@@beasthundred4709 and? its still not close as luffy can dodge said attacks because is not only the captain but the strongest still of the pirate crew.
I'm of the belief Asura is NOT adv conq.
It makes no sense to me that Zoro used an ability that all of Kaido's Top 5 share and Kaido comments "oh you have conquerors haki" (like he did with Luffy and Kidd in Act 1) but when Luffy uses adv conq he gets excited and mentions his Top 5 again.
Zoro isn't even brought up in the conversation whatsoever, despite Kaido literally being faced with this "supposed" attack.
I agree with everything here but I just can't come around to believing Zoro used adv conq with Asura seeing as he did not rely on Enma as much as he does for King of Hell.
I recommend u go watch Mr morj “What everyone gets wrong about haki” from 10:58 it will clear ur doubts
First off can we agree that kaido knows wat adv conquers is an if so can we also agree on before Zoro got to the roof top he used adv conquers I think to many folks got the misconception only reason Luffy is so strong is cuz he is the main character to me I think Zoro is on par wit Luffy they took 2 different paths but end up wit the same results Zoro still has the 2nd highest bounty out of the new generation
@@jevonbeasley8241 no one says Luffy is strong cuz he is the mc there are hard proof and feats that just show Luffy outright strogner did u not watch the video?
Not only that, Kaido commenting on CoC means nothing but you have base. He mentions Kidd has CoC, so did Kidd use AdvCoC in their fight before the Wano arc?? Of course not.
@@JT-km6th the difference is kaido only says it when he gets hit by zoro that means zoro was using it in advance form
Luffy also figures out about acoc after getting hit from kaido and realizes kaido is coating his conq haki in his attack
Plus the fact that zoro does not even know he is using acoc because the sword is doing it for him
All leads to the fact that he used it unconsciously which is not anything new Zoro used advance armament against Mr 1 without knowing
Luffy used conq haki in pre time skip without knowing
Luffy used future sight in marine ford against Mihak to avoid his slashes
Mihak even says right after “u seem unusually calm”
Katakuri says u need to be calm to use future site
People can unknowingly use haki it’s nothing new
Zoro even more cuz enma pulls out his conq haki for him that’s the whole reason he even has conq cuz he got enma which pulled out his innate conq to awaken it
I’m your 100th subscriber
Luffy isn’t landing many blows on zoro, his defense (deflecting and dodging) and reaction speed is the some of the most impressive we’ve seen
Zoro has things like gorilla 1 and 2 as strength buffs aswell for gear 3
Luffy has future sight zoro doesn’t
@@Mudmanz future sight didnt stop kaido from taggin luffy in any of his forms let alone base and zoro tagged kaido...who has future sight..
@@JusDion cope hard fanboy Kaido is stronger than Luffy that's why it bypasses his future sight but Zoro ain't stronger to luffy
@@JusDion your right fs is a problem but zoro can still be fast enough to react even after getting predicted.
But g2 + acoc + fs definitely gives luffy a little edge over zoro but that’s still not enough to actually put Zoro down. Also Luffy barely uses fs
@@fuzzo2734 Gear 2 Luffy would probably demolish Zoro, Sanji is faster than Zoro and Luffy Gear 2 is comparable or might even be faster. There is just no way Zoro is getting past Gear 2 since he just can't match his speed or power, base Luffy can box with Kaido, while Zoro almost died fighting his Vice Captain.
The biggest factor here rn is future sight, which zoro lacks- can we go back to the luffy Vs Katakuri fight to realize how much of a power difference future sight ALONE puts u at? Now, I do think if zoro fought anyone who had future sight he would learn it like luffy did but we can’t assume that he would with luffy, until he learns future sight he won’t stand a chance against any form higher than base luffy
Just a bit of nagging on a tidbit - but at 00:13 it's revelation, not relevation --- probably. Though relevation does work as well, amusingly enough!
I dont think Zoro was using ACC on rooftop. I think when he was mentioning his limit, he was referring to using his strongest technique. I personally believe that he didn't start using it until his mindset changed vs King. He was legit mentally nerfing himself, as much as it hurts to say.
Bro read the manga Zoro clashed with acoc with a gorosei with only two swords and no bandana
“No bandana” 😭🙏🏽
@@Fnafmaster1359They think if he doesn't put the bandana on he's not taking the battle seriously.😂
@@Tomjty ik and it’s STUIPD 😭
1. With pre adcoc zoro you have to count in asura. Asura is still Zoro's ability regardless of if he's using ad haki or any haki. So you can't say base pre adcoc luffy is stronger than adcoc zoro as zoro still had asura he just didn't use it. Pre adcoc base zoro had feats on par with g4 luffy and had he used asura it would have been above luffy that's why oda didn't let zoro use it until he was ready to give luffy his new pu. Zoro can always shine with but never out shine luffy. It the same reason he never used adcoa till wano despite having it out of the time skip as that would have made zoro look stronger than luffy.
2. Scaling putting kaido on his back is dumb. Pre ryou luffy and scabbards put kaido on his back. So those characters are stronger than zoro just because of putting him on his back? This is people putting on their super analytical hats to act like they are big brained for no reason. Zoro was just expressing he expected more from his strongest attack. To him it should at least to be able to knock kaido down. It was a clean cut it didn't have a ton of force behind it to move kaido but he expected the damage to at least floor him not for kaido to still be standing. Dead man's game us a clean cut not a cut meant to have a ton of force behind it like tasumaki.
3. Scaling koh to base luffy is just dumb. Base luffy looked the same as g4 luffy vs kaido after he unlocked adcoc. So is adcoc g4= base adcoc luffy? Adcoc allows you to make coc barriers that so far have blocked every attack regardless of strength. It also stacks with everything to massively increase your damage. Yea base luffy using his adhaki should be able to hurt anyone and hang with anyone based on how ad coc and coa works. But this same logic would apply to zoro if he's using the same abilities. Case in point is Lucci where just using adcoc he was able to easily over power him yet he was fighting evenly with him before when he was just using 2 swords and normal haki.
4. Lastly as always with zoro and luffy oda doesn't let zoro go all out but constantly has luffy do it even when he doesn't have to. Zoro's strongest form we know of would be koh asura but oda never let's zoro use it. Oda has been doing this for a while and when it comes to them actually showing what they can do they are always close with the sight edge to luffy. Just in wano alone up until literally luffy gaining adcoc people were say g4 washes zoro even when clearly it didn't. People only started accepting zoro was on par with g4 once luffy unlocked adcoc. This was base zoro with no asura that was on par with g4. If you would have told anyone base zoro was on par with g4 luffy post his ryou training you'd been laughed at yet that was what it was. Luffy and zoro are supposed to have a Roger and Rayleigh type of structure. Saying base luffy is on par with koh zoro would be like saying no sword Roger is on par with Rayleigh its just dumb. You'd basically be saying luffy could neg or low diff zoro when he just couldn't. The same powers that power that luffy got zoro got in adcoc. Currently koh is >= g4 and likely once it's shown g5 >= koh asura.
They are very close in power.
If 100x stronger is close for you i mean...
@@Vaxxx9 100x Bro you are crazy 100 zoro would destroy the verse !
@@Vaxxx9bruh zoro is not that weak compared to luffy
@@JesusIsLorrdd they are on the same level like in the beginning ..
Close? Luffy defeated Kaido, while Zoro had no chance against him. They are nowhere near the same level. 🤷♂️
Amazing Video🔥🔥
Luffy Mid- High Diff
The difference between luffy and zoro is the same as the difference between zoro and sanji.
Naw luffy at least 3x stronger than zoro
Thats just cope
@@yahyahubbard then Zoro is 3x stronger than sanji
@@Isaac.D.grizzly Bro Zoro has been a stronger than Luffy since the time skip all the way up to whole cake island. How is it a cope? 🤨
@@GiRR007 Says you
I don't think Zoro is aware of it either, to him what was happening was all he was doing was allowing enma to stabilize his haki or something like that. He doesn't know he's really using Acoc he thinks it's just enma reacting to his haki
If luffy is 5k in power, Zoro 2.6k & Sanji 2.4k. These two will always be nearly the same in power and will juggle back and forth.
Nah luffy is
easily at least 10x stronger than zoro
@@Vaxxx9wtf bro
@@doggiestdoge3576 Y cuz they don't have devil fruit or is it cuz they didn't get special training from Raylie or while in prisoned by kaido let's be real bout this now
I think that at the start of Fishman Island, they were very close, if not equal in strength. And that the gap just slowly widened until Wano
And even then, I think Zoro still isn’t too far behind
No, they showed it at sabaody, luffy can os a pacifista alone, while sanji and zoro need to be 2 to do the same
Luffy needs gear 4th "bare mininmim" to fight zoro.
NO base luffy can take on Zoro and win with just Haki
Nop luffy in gear 2 and adv conquerors> Zoro eos
Yall forget swords have always been a "vulnerability " for luffy. And zoro physicaly manifesting into his Asura form is literally the highest precedence in the story for COC. Nobody else has done this!
I think zoro now can beat luffy the first time he unlocked ACOC
he stops at luffy splitting the sky
But we have to consider what will happen if zoro (now) uses asura with king of hell? Especially after zoro being able to use it normally which will increase his power like when luffy got beaten by kaido after 1010 but when he returned he was able to split the sky
It wasn’t about how weak luffy is rather about how shallow he uses ACOC, so a better application gave luffy the ability to split the sky although his strength was the same what changed was his application.
you cant split the sky alone. zoro didnt split the sky because king doesn't have Conquerors
@@JusDion wdym nobody can split the sky alone didnt luffy literally split the sky on his own after gear 5
@@Unamed-xl4re 🙊 that's a rabbit hole 🕳️ I don't think you wanna go down without speculation. Long story short Luffy has two wills inside him. The will/haki of the fruit revived Luffy. How else could a devil fruit without a user evade the world government?
it's still a clash of wills because Luffy couldn't control himself or his laughing. Either Nika was going to win the tug of war or luffy and I believe Luffy won.
Feel free to discredit my opinion tho it's all speculation until we know more about the gods.
@@Unamed-xl4re it's also implied that kaidos zoan fruit is not compatible with him and was intended for ivankov in his childhood. Which is why kaido doesn't have the mythical clouds around his hybrid form like lucci and luffy. Vega punk said as much about compatibility and that's probably why kaido was suicidal and couldn't awaken his fruit.
@JusDion no hate just but idk what you trying to say. Do you mean that luffy wasn't splitting the sky by himself but with the fruit? ( nika/joyboy )
Genuinely I thinks it's hard to gauge considering Zoro is using Luffy s main counter as a rubber man (blades) so how would you even gauge them right? Luffy hurt kaido and Zoro hurt kaido, but I think Luffy is better at coming back and doing it over and over till kaido went down, and Zoro sweat way more during that fight
I honestly dont think they were ever that far, until Luffy started to master the various forms of Haki. Zoro didnt really go all out (post timeskip) until Wano. Luffy mastered observation vs Katakuri, thats when the first gap appeared. Then in Wano he mastered armament, another gap. He mastered conquerors during Roof Piece, and thats where the largest gap happened. Gear 5 is just trolling the entire crew. I agree with the last bit of Zoro not even being close to his peak yet, but G5 Luffy still washes. Zoro still has the basic haki skills that Luffy learned ages ago with Rayleigh. He probably cant even use the basic knockout ability that conquerors haki gives you. We are seriously lacking a Zoro based arc that gives him a major power up.
Is this even a question? Luffy is literally beating up everybody using only his fist, his BARE HANDS.
If you give him a sword he will beat you up with his fist while holding said sword.
Conqueror's Haki is the pure will to beat you up with his bare hands.
He uses his Gear 5 just to put you at ease while he goes to town on your body.
The problem is people seem to ignore the fact that a Luffy while only using Gear 3 and his Haki + ACOC was going toe to toe with Kaido and was even matching his attacks now imagine how much stronger he gets if he uses Gear 4th with ACOC i just dont see Zoro Matching this level of power in KING OF HELL when he could barely track King with his flames off who Kaido should be faster then
I hope Kaido is alive, because it feels really shallow that Kaido doesn't live to tell the tale that Zoro has cut him or walks around with Zoro's scar. I know he was acknowledged on the rooftop, but it would be nice if he still roams around with Zoro scar on top of Oden's
As 2nd in command he HAS TO BE able to compete with the captain if needed and also protect the whole crew if the captain goes down so i think hes closer to luffy then we think