been using Alcohol for years with a little Tap Magic added in, very clean cuts, with just a thin film of tap magic left on material, just hold air pressure down to prevent vaporization
That is an interesting idea, I have to try that ! Once you mix it and fill it in the canister will it separate at a later time let’s say over the weekend ?
Just wanted to say tha ks for doing this series, i know how difficult its to produce videos, definetly at the quality you make. I look forward to seei g ypur thoughts on bits.
We call it MQL too, minimum quality lube, though Fogbuster is the commonly used term. And I have seen others going over to using iso-propyl alcohol rather than WD40. 70% IPA is used to clean the skin for blood draws, etc and it is also present in hand sanitizers. But there is little data on chronic inhalation; prudent to have good ventilation. Great points about keeping the slot free of chips and keeping everything cool.
Not in mine either 😂 I know a company in Lexington,Ky they make special horse shoes for the horse racing “industry” and amazingly enough they have Datron machines to make them … blew my mind.
Thank you so much for starting this channel. I have recently built a CNC using standard 20x80 and 20x40 aluminium profiles but because I do not have access to another CNC, I decided to 3D print the plates (10mm). I am pleased to say that it is fully operational but I have not attempted to machine any material. The workarea is about 500mm x 400mm. Once I have the accuracy tested, my plan is to use the RepRap method to ultimately machine all the plates in Aluminium similar to your machine. To begin, I need to get a sheet of 10mm ply-wood. What type of ply-wood is best for ridgidity for machining aluminum? Oh I forgot to ask, why have you opted to have such a tall z-spindle part?
Excellent !! So best is if you can find Baltic Birch Plywood it has more layers than regular plywood and is much better. The Z plate length is this way because I have moving rails (instead of a moving guide block). This allows me to mount any spindle in the future. Good luck with your built !!!
@@JBWorx Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, I see you have an interesting z-motor and ball screw setup that is mounted at the rear. I see what you mean about this design gives the flexibility of installing different types/size spindles. I checked up the Baltic Birch plywood I can get hold of 9mm thick and add a spacers to compensate for the 1mm gap. Would it provide sufficient rigidity to machine aluminium all be at say the lowest possible DOC of 0.1 - 0.12mm with a the cheap chinese 1/8 inch single flute endmill using my 500W 12000rpm spindle ? I haven't got round to doing the RPM calculations that you showed in this video but I will do that soon. I forgot, I liked your Logitech gamepad control - is it a USB type. My cnc control software is CNCjs will it need any special programming to get it to do basic up/down/back/front/side movements.
The limit of small desktop machines is often the spindle and how it is mounted. I don’t know if you will be able to cut Aluminium but hey it’s a goal so improve your machine until you can. CNCjs has widgets that you need to run through so that the settings are correct. As an example your x-axis might move left when you want it to move right. Have fun with your cnc and learn as much as you can with it.
hallo, wo bekomm ich die Informationen her, über Alu, dass auf der Fräse gut zu bearbeiten ist? Ich bin zwar Metaller, aber diese Alu-Sorten sind doch sehr verwirrend...
Hi, also im Fachkunde Buch Metall findest du dazu gute Infos. Aber natürlich viel einfacher sich online. Versuch mal “Bearbeitbarkeit von Aluminium” bei Google oder Bing da findest du einiges. In Deutschland beschreiben wir diese Legierungen oft als “Automaten Legierungen” sind also extra für die Zerspanung hergestellt.
Zu meiner Antwort versuche ich hier noch einen link www.aluservice.de/ratgeber/aluminium/welche-aluminiumlegierung-zum-fraesen/#:~:text=Gut%20zerspanbar%20sind%20zum%20Beispiel%20Aluminiumlegierungen%20wie%3A%20AlMg4%2C5Mn,Automatenlegierungen%20AlCuMgPb%2C%20AlMgSiPb%20sowie%20auch%20AlCuBiPb%20oder%20AlCuMg1.
When I started out I used a set of Chinese made Collets. Over the years I upgraded to “AA” precision collets about $14 a piece. On Amazon you can get Techniks The nut needs to be dynamically balanced again Amazon 4 for $13.50.
Hi, thanks for the great information. With the isopropyl, is that just a straight mix? also just watched your part 2. I have been using single flute DLC upcut bits from a local supplier (chinese made going from the price). Is it really worth the extra for the Datron bits? I almost fell over when i saw the difference in price? I am still experimenting with different bits, lubricant&air, air only, no air (recently - just to help my dust extractor - though not having success with the cutters lasting). It sounds like i need to reduce air mister pressure and try alcohol for the lubricant. I have recently been experiencing what you are talking about as the cuts get deeper and chip evacuation, the air is a must. Great, clear information on both videos - Thanks!
So if you can get the project done using your current bit and you are happy with the surface finish I would not change. I tested several different bits in aluminum and the Datron is the best in plunging and longevity. So for me yes it’s worth it. It’s straight Alkohol no dilution and yes you don’t need much air pressure as this will atomize the fluid and that is what is not desirable. Thx for your comment.
Yes certainly. Best is to find a provider near you as shipping can be expensive on larger plates. Here is an example from online metals. www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/aluminum-rectangle-bar-6061?q=%3Aprice-asc%3AMaterial%3AAluminum%3AShape%3ABar-Rectangle%3AAlloy%3A6061%3AThickness%3A0.5%2522%3AWidth%3A6%2522
Shipping can be expensive for larger items so I think best is to get a vendor close to you. Onlinemetals is one or make a local search and give a metal vendor a call. Often they are higher in price but if you can there and pick the material up it might be less.
Very informative as always. I am using 99% iso (Costco) with a small amount of sewing machine oil in it, coming out of a Fogbuster clone that I made. Soon switching to a peristaltic pump for better control of dosing. It works very well for both cooling and air blast,. Initially used an air brush compresoor, not much pressure or volume needed. I do agree that for longer runs an air exhaust would be a good idea.
I am always surprised how little alcohol is used even let’s say on a 2h run. I guess if the machine has a small enclosure things could get dangerous without an exhaust. Like to mention there is a complete peristaltic dosing pump available on Amazon I have used it for two customers and they are super easy to set up and can even be programmed. If you pick one make sure it’s driven by a stepper motor.
I have to correct you straight off the bat, 1000 series aluminium is very easy to machine! It's extremely easy to machine and the most versatile grade for brackets and parts that need forming.
I want to move into cutting metals, but the idea of managing cutting fluid/mist on a desktop CNC machine is frankly scary mess. I see a piece of MDF at the beginning of the video, I just see that crumbling into pile of dust. I do see your Y rails have a shield too. Is there a chance there is a video on "waste" management?
Thanks for your comment Carl, yes MDF as a spoil-board will not mix well with any coolant. So I used a small pallet made from POM (Acetal, Delrin) and mounted the parts on that for quite a while. Actually I still use that pallet today just on top of an aluminum table. Because of filming the video you will rarely see my dust shoe in place but I always use it if the camera is off. It makes everything so much easier to clean up. Yes on the left and right side there is a plastic “shield” to protect the linear rails and ball screw… it works somewhat ok but I still clean them a lot. If I have a large job I simply use poster board and tape it under the gantry and on the sides that is very effective and costs very little.
isopropyl alcohol is expensive, I use denatured alcohol, it's cheap and it evaporates too, it only differs in color and price if we use it only for milling. Unfortunately, neither of these should be inhaled.
The good news is that one will use very little of it. The bottle I showed in the video costs $2,20 and unfortunately the denatured alcohol I can find locally costs more and has a lower percentage. For a while during COVID it was hard to find.
In Germany we have something called “Spiritus” but boy that stinks up the entire shop just in minutes. I often use a piece of paper to set the amount of fluid used and the nice thing is that the peristaltic pump will deliver exactly that every time. It’s an expense to add but I really like it way better than the Venturi set up I had before.
You have a nicer cnc than mine, i pretty much made my own out of 3d printed parts, trial and error and and lot of bolts and steel where needed and an entire table for it. Its pretty nice on 6061 T6 😇 which is what i mostly use for like my projects and such. I havent worked mych else yet. I moslty do plastics, sometimes wood, and i do a good bit of aluminum milling now for a few projects. I like your machine, imyou hust need an entire shop to fabricste it. Im building a new cnc / in the orocess of desgine. Ill leave a comment later when i actually get around to making some videos of my current cnc and my next 😇 Aluminum is not suoer hard ti machine, copper is much more of a monster lol.
Thanks for reaching out, yes please share your new design once finished. I have machined a few copper parts for electrical Bus bars and did not have any problems using a single flute bit.
@JBWorx what's your speed and feed for that and what size 0flute. I pretty much use a 0 flute for 75 % of all my milling since it's fast and does a nice roughing job. I've only attempted copper once when I first started like a year and a half ago. Scared me off until I got decent with aluminum billet 6061 T6.
@JBWorx @JBWorx ooooof, I can only dream of those speeds. My spindle is under powered using about 500w. Max rpm is 12k, but while cutting aluminum the spindle speed drops considerably and just reduces the speed at which i can cut. I mostly work with a 1/4 0-flute end mill on aluminum. My speeds are way reduced Plus I'm taking like 1mm -3mm doc usually 😄 but I'm running mostly at 400 to 600 mm/m. I csn onlyngo vast on light cuts. Like less than 1mm
The diameter of the tool is directly related to the horsepower you need. So I like to suggest that you use a smaller diameter bit. Use a 4mm Datron 4in1 single flute endmill. I am sure you will like it and your spindle speed might not be reduced as much. Or even a 3mm one. Give that a try I am sure it will make a big difference.
Just a very very very minor point: "wrought" is pronounced like "raw-t" (as in raw fish). English is just weird on this one; I mean "router" is pronounced like "rOw-ter" (row as in an argument, and not a line of things) but "wrought" is pronounced like "rAw-t"; who invented this language lol 🙃 Loved the video; very informative and helpful!
Cast plate is free of stress - life goal right there 😂 Thanks again for the information!
Lol 😂😀👍
Your videos are excellent source for hobby cnc user. Thank you so much for putting these together!
Glad that you like them !
5:16 what you also can do is 3D printing a fan that you attach to your collet or tool. Work surprisingly well.
Yes I was wondering about that. One would think at 18k rpm or so they come apart - apparently not.
Excellent information. I’ll have to go back and watch the rest of the series!
Please do! I very much enjoy comments like yours were Someone likes the videos I make.
@@JBWorx what is the power of your spindle? I see that Datron recommends 3 kW for their cross cutter and my spindle is only 2.2 kW
Mine is also 2.2kW no problem at all I don’t think my machine moves fast enough to ever get close to even the 2.2 kW … it’s not a Datron lol 😂
Thanks a lot, Sir, you give me much information for work with my DIY CNC machine.
Excellent !!
been using Alcohol for years with a little Tap Magic added in, very clean cuts, with just a thin film of tap magic left on material, just hold air pressure down to prevent vaporization
That is an interesting idea, I have to try that ! Once you mix it and fill it in the canister will it separate at a later time let’s say over the weekend ?
Just wanted to say tha ks for doing this series, i know how difficult its to produce videos, definetly at the quality you make. I look forward to seei g ypur thoughts on bits.
Coming right up … working on it at the moment. And thanks for reaching out.
@JBWorx just as aside your wish i had seen yours before i bought an official fogbuster, and the pump is a really great solution.
Yes the pump makes all the difference. Possibly you can modify yours and simply add the pump ?
@@JBWorx probably, i alread had to replace the pump as i accidentally sliced while sufacing my ali spoiler 🤣
Oops 😬
The magnetic flashlight on the band saw is an awesome hidden tip there. I'll have to try that with the extra harbor freight lights I have like that.
That is exactly what this is - HF flashlight. And yes it works really well for cutting along a line.
Schöne Grüße aus Dortmund
Ich finde Deine Videos sehr lehrreich, auch wenn ich meine Fräse leider verkaufen musste. Weiter so....
Oh das ist Schade, aber eventuell hast du ja nochmal die Gelegenheit das Hobby wieder aufzugreifen. Liebe Grüße aus Walton, KY.
You explained it well👍
Thank you
Very helpful video! I learned a lot. Thank you!
Excellent, and thank you for your feedback !
We call it MQL too, minimum quality lube, though Fogbuster is the commonly used term. And I have seen others going over to using iso-propyl alcohol rather than WD40. 70% IPA is used to clean the skin for blood draws, etc and it is also present in hand sanitizers. But there is little data on chronic inhalation; prudent to have good ventilation. Great points about keeping the slot free of chips and keeping everything cool.
I think Datron provides the most evidence that alcohol works great as a coolant and their machines do start to sell in the US.
@@JBWorx Now that's a dream machine, sadly with an in my dreams price😀
Not in mine either 😂 I know a company in Lexington,Ky they make special horse shoes for the horse racing “industry” and amazingly enough they have Datron machines to make them … blew my mind.
What spindle do your machine have ? And can it run at lower (less than 10k rpm) speeds ?
It is a 2 pole spindle so no I cannot run it below 10k. It’s the 2.2kW Huanyang water cooled 3 bearing spindle
Thank you so much for starting this channel. I have recently built a CNC using standard 20x80 and 20x40 aluminium profiles but because I do not have access to another CNC, I decided to 3D print the plates (10mm). I am pleased to say that it is fully operational but I have not attempted to machine any material. The workarea is about 500mm x 400mm. Once I have the accuracy tested, my plan is to use the RepRap method to ultimately machine all the plates in Aluminium similar to your machine. To begin, I need to get a sheet of 10mm ply-wood. What type of ply-wood is best for ridgidity for machining aluminum?
Oh I forgot to ask, why have you opted to have such a tall z-spindle part?
Excellent !! So best is if you can find Baltic Birch Plywood it has more layers than regular plywood and is much better. The Z plate length is this way because I have moving rails (instead of a moving guide block). This allows me to mount any spindle in the future. Good luck with your built !!!
@@JBWorx Thank you so much for your reply. Yes, I see you have an interesting z-motor and ball screw setup that is mounted at the rear. I see what you mean about this design gives the flexibility of installing different types/size spindles. I checked up the Baltic Birch plywood I can get hold of 9mm thick and add a spacers to compensate for the 1mm gap. Would it provide sufficient rigidity to machine aluminium all be at say the lowest possible DOC of 0.1 - 0.12mm with a the cheap chinese 1/8 inch single flute endmill using my 500W 12000rpm spindle ? I haven't got round to doing the RPM calculations that you showed in this video but I will do that soon.
I forgot, I liked your Logitech gamepad control - is it a USB type. My cnc control software is CNCjs will it need any special programming to get it to do basic up/down/back/front/side movements.
The limit of small desktop machines is often the spindle and how it is mounted. I don’t know if you will be able to cut Aluminium but hey it’s a goal so improve your machine until you can. CNCjs has widgets that you need to run through so that the settings are correct. As an example your x-axis might move left when you want it to move right. Have fun with your cnc and learn as much as you can with it.
what is the largest er20 facing mill you have? great content as always! Love this channel :)
1” in diameter (25mm) But, I turned the shaft down to make it fit.
@@JBWorx 🙏
Anytime
Great information
Glad you liked it
hallo, wo bekomm ich die Informationen her, über Alu, dass auf der Fräse gut zu bearbeiten ist? Ich bin zwar Metaller, aber diese Alu-Sorten sind doch sehr verwirrend...
Hi, also im Fachkunde Buch Metall findest du dazu gute Infos. Aber natürlich viel einfacher sich online. Versuch mal “Bearbeitbarkeit von Aluminium” bei Google oder Bing da findest du einiges. In Deutschland beschreiben wir diese Legierungen oft als “Automaten Legierungen” sind also extra für die Zerspanung hergestellt.
Zu meiner Antwort versuche ich hier noch einen link
www.aluservice.de/ratgeber/aluminium/welche-aluminiumlegierung-zum-fraesen/#:~:text=Gut%20zerspanbar%20sind%20zum%20Beispiel%20Aluminiumlegierungen%20wie%3A%20AlMg4%2C5Mn,Automatenlegierungen%20AlCuMgPb%2C%20AlMgSiPb%20sowie%20auch%20AlCuBiPb%20oder%20AlCuMg1.
What do you use for collets and collet nuts?
When I started out I used a set of Chinese made Collets. Over the years I upgraded to “AA” precision collets about $14 a piece. On Amazon you can get Techniks The nut needs to be dynamically balanced again Amazon 4 for $13.50.
Hi, thanks for the great information. With the isopropyl, is that just a straight mix? also just watched your part 2. I have been using single flute DLC upcut bits from a local supplier (chinese made going from the price). Is it really worth the extra for the Datron bits? I almost fell over when i saw the difference in price? I am still experimenting with different bits, lubricant&air, air only, no air (recently - just to help my dust extractor - though not having success with the cutters lasting). It sounds like i need to reduce air mister pressure and try alcohol for the lubricant. I have recently been experiencing what you are talking about as the cuts get deeper and chip evacuation, the air is a must. Great, clear information on both videos - Thanks!
So if you can get the project done using your current bit and you are happy with the surface finish I would not change. I tested several different bits in aluminum and the Datron is the best in plunging and longevity. So for me yes it’s worth it. It’s straight Alkohol no dilution and yes you don’t need much air pressure as this will atomize the fluid and that is what is not desirable. Thx for your comment.
thanks for sharing and very informative ... good job ... 👍👍👍👍
Thank you !
Any chance you can provide details (links etc) for the aluminium you mention, good video's btw :-)
Yes certainly. Best is to find a provider near you as shipping can be expensive on larger plates. Here is an example from online metals.
www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/aluminum-rectangle-bar-6061?q=%3Aprice-asc%3AMaterial%3AAluminum%3AShape%3ABar-Rectangle%3AAlloy%3A6061%3AThickness%3A0.5%2522%3AWidth%3A6%2522
Love the content. Another great video!
Thank you Ryan, I am glad that you enjoyed watching it. Next time we see some chips fly
Where can I order this aluminum?
Shipping can be expensive for larger items so I think best is to get a vendor close to you. Onlinemetals is one or make a local search and give a metal vendor a call. Often they are higher in price but if you can there and pick the material up it might be less.
Very informative as always. I am using 99% iso (Costco) with a small amount of sewing machine oil in it, coming out of a Fogbuster clone that I made. Soon switching to a peristaltic pump for better control of dosing. It works very well for both cooling and air blast,. Initially used an air brush compresoor, not much pressure or volume needed. I do agree that for longer runs an air exhaust would be a good idea.
I am always surprised how little alcohol is used even let’s say on a 2h run. I guess if the machine has a small enclosure things could get dangerous without an exhaust. Like to mention there is a complete peristaltic dosing pump available on Amazon I have used it for two customers and they are super easy to set up and can even be programmed. If you pick one make sure it’s driven by a stepper motor.
I have to correct you straight off the bat, 1000 series aluminium is very easy to machine! It's extremely easy to machine and the most versatile grade for brackets and parts that need forming.
Well 1000 series aluminum has a min of 99% Al and that makes it rather difficult to machine but yes you are right very good for forming.
I want to move into cutting metals, but the idea of managing cutting fluid/mist on a desktop CNC machine is frankly scary mess. I see a piece of MDF at the beginning of the video, I just see that crumbling into pile of dust.
I do see your Y rails have a shield too. Is there a chance there is a video on "waste" management?
Thanks for your comment Carl, yes MDF as a spoil-board will not mix well with any coolant. So I used a small pallet made from POM (Acetal, Delrin) and mounted the parts on that for quite a while. Actually I still use that pallet today just on top of an aluminum table.
Because of filming the video you will rarely see my dust shoe in place but I always use it if the camera is off. It makes everything so much easier to clean up. Yes on the left and right side there is a plastic “shield” to protect the linear rails and ball screw… it works somewhat ok but I still clean them a lot. If I have a large job I simply use poster board and tape it under the gantry and on the sides that is very effective and costs very little.
With the right bits you don't need cutting fluid.
So I use a lot of Datron bits and choose to use cutting fluid can you recommend a better choice for aluminum above Datron single flute bits ?
isopropyl alcohol is expensive, I use denatured alcohol, it's cheap and it evaporates too, it only differs in color and price if we use it only for milling. Unfortunately, neither of these should be inhaled.
The good news is that one will use very little of it. The bottle I showed in the video costs $2,20 and unfortunately the denatured alcohol I can find locally costs more and has a lower percentage. For a while during COVID it was hard to find.
@@JBWorx For me, unfortunately, it's already about $5 \ L
$2,20 for 1L is a nice price...
In Germany we have something called “Spiritus” but boy that stinks up the entire shop just in minutes. I often use a piece of paper to set the amount of fluid used and the nice thing is that the peristaltic pump will deliver exactly that every time. It’s an expense to add but I really like it way better than the Venturi set up I had before.
Don't worry about breathing alcohol. I drink lots of it and I'm fine (more or less)
lol 😂
You have a nicer cnc than mine, i pretty much made my own out of 3d printed parts, trial and error and and lot of bolts and steel where needed and an entire table for it.
Its pretty nice on 6061 T6 😇 which is what i mostly use for like my projects and such.
I havent worked mych else yet. I moslty do plastics, sometimes wood, and i do a good bit of aluminum milling now for a few projects.
I like your machine, imyou hust need an entire shop to fabricste it.
Im building a new cnc / in the orocess of desgine. Ill leave a comment later when i actually get around to making some videos of my current cnc and my next 😇
Aluminum is not suoer hard ti machine, copper is much more of a monster lol.
Thanks for reaching out, yes please share your new design once finished. I have machined a few copper parts for electrical Bus bars and did not have any problems using a single flute bit.
@JBWorx what's your speed and feed for that and what size 0flute.
I pretty much use a 0 flute for 75 % of all my milling since it's fast and does a nice roughing job.
I've only attempted copper once when I first started like a year and a half ago. Scared me off until I got decent with aluminum billet 6061 T6.
I have single flute bits from 3mm to 8mm that I use frequently. I run the 5mm tool at 16k rpm and 1500mm/min feed rate.
@JBWorx @JBWorx ooooof, I can only dream of those speeds. My spindle is under powered using about 500w. Max rpm is 12k, but while cutting aluminum the spindle speed drops considerably and just reduces the speed at which i can cut. I mostly work with a 1/4 0-flute end mill on aluminum. My speeds are way reduced
Plus I'm taking like 1mm -3mm doc usually 😄 but I'm running mostly at 400 to 600 mm/m. I csn onlyngo vast on light cuts. Like less than 1mm
The diameter of the tool is directly related to the horsepower you need. So I like to suggest that you use a smaller diameter bit. Use a 4mm Datron 4in1 single flute endmill. I am sure you will like it and your spindle speed might not be reduced as much. Or even a 3mm one. Give that a try I am sure it will make a big difference.
Just a very very very minor point: "wrought" is pronounced like "raw-t" (as in raw fish). English is just weird on this one; I mean "router" is pronounced like "rOw-ter" (row as in an argument, and not a line of things) but "wrought" is pronounced like "rAw-t"; who invented this language lol 🙃 Loved the video; very informative and helpful!
That is a good one thank you 😊
All talk and no show.
Yes this has a lot of information in it. The cutting is in part 2. Also have a look on my channel there are plenty of Aluminium cutting videos.