This is excellent information. There were a lot of conclusions I had already come to myself after many years, but you gave even more helpful information than what I already knew. Thank you for sharing and great video series
Love your videos! Really informative. One suggestion would be to add the number of flutes in your cut examples. I know you've discussed it in the beginning, but it's hard to remember unless jumping back and forth of the video. Having the flute numbers together with your feed and speed specs is important in my opinion.
And there was me thinking I should get 3 or 4 flute bits and then you go and explain why I need to get single flute tools. Making, it would seem, you the only one on you tube properly explaining this. And trust me I should know because I think I have watched every video on the subject and yours is definitely the most thorough. Good job!!!!!
i REALLY like the cheap Bap300 10mm indexable endmills with APMT1135PDER (polished) inserts and theyre cheap, i think i payed 3$ for the tool and 22$ for 10 inserts (they ladt forever they leave a mirror finish on ma diy mill i also run a 8mm alu-power endmill and its awesome, but it needs the right feeds and speeds to work properly
Thank you for sharing Felix, I have the Alupower endmill das well and for facing they are not that good on my machine for the surface finish. Could you by any chance share a link to the inserts I am looking for the polished version since a while now. Thx
Hi Joerg, again thank you for the great video(s). I have not as yet cut aluminum with my router, only wood and different types of plastic. I know everything you outlined is important to successfully mill AL but how important is it to have a machine that has mass/weight? I've seen some well known CNC brands that do not weigh very much, around 77kg and as advertised can cut AL. So, my assumption is you can cut AL with just about any CNC router as long as your feeds/speeds are adjusted accordingly?? Thanks, Peter
Hi Peter, thank you for reaching out. So mass will dampen vibration and will provide better cut quality / surface finish. You can cut Al as long as the router is stiff enough. Wide gantries are more prone to deflection under load so a smaller machine can have advantages when cutting aluminum. In general belt drives give more trouble but even with that it is possible to cut Al. I would give it a try it is very rewarding to make your first project in metal and you can further improve your own machine with the parts you make.
Thank you very much for your videos AWESOME ! Can I trust the width of a plastic nylamid fixture plate to keep safe and very exact the drilling and machining depths on an aluminum plate ? I am going to work on a "plastic injection mould" aluminum plate.
Thanks for the explanation. I have a 4 x 8 machine with a 2.2kw spindle. I need to make a top brace like what you have on your machine. Seems like that would really stiffen up the spindle. It could also be used when traming the spindle. Overall great video/ thanks a ton.
I think before I’d reduce the DOC for some of these examples, I would make every attempt to reduce the stick out as much as possible. It looks like most of these cuts were done with a stick out of 5 or 6 times the diameter of the bit, which is excessive and will lead to increased deflection at the end of the bit. If you did the same cut using a 1” LOC bit, then repeat with a 1/2” LOC bit, the results are going to be better with the shorter cut length every time. The top of the bit is held in place with the collet, the bottom of the bit is engaged in the material - the total amount of the bit in the middle that is doing neither is wasted potential rigidity.
That is certainly true and a good point that is often overlooked. However not all of us are going to have the ideal tool for every part we make. Most of my tools require a 20mm DOC hence the longer flutes. Here I make a part that is only 6mm thick and I will not go and buy an extra tool for that. However in a perfect world it is desirable to use a tool as short as possible. Thanks for your comment !
What is the minimum RPM for your machine and what RPMs are you running those indexable cutters at? Even at the lower end of what many routers will do (~8k RPM) the surface speed for a 1" cutter is something like 640 m/min. Had you not turned down the squared shanks on those larger tools would balance have been an issue at those speeds? Love the content, btw. Thanks for making these videos!
Have a look that vid called CNC router fixture plate I will leave a link in this comment. My min rpm is 8000 I use that manly for drilling. The 1” tool works surprisingly well even with the wrong inserts for steel I did 2 really large plates with no problems. Vibration is not an issue even with turning the shaft down I can run it up the 15k rpm however I use 10k rpm and 0,2mm DOC and I found no difference in using both inserts or just one (by grinding one edge slightly back). The surface finish seems to be equally good. Without coolant I find that sometimes there are some deeper groves to see with coolant that is typically not the case. th-cam.com/video/3sIxIELSXKo/w-d-xo.html&si=uh08GrRKs1c4adkY
Hi Joerg, a few months ago Piotr Fox Wysocki did a real 'Deep Dive' into surface finishes from a DIY CNC mill, including some excellent sub-micron closeups. His stunning machine is not relevant for me, but I could not help falling in love with it! Well worth a look. th-cam.com/video/hbiDW50UQag/w-d-xo.html
Vielen Dank Jörg, sehr wertvoll für einen Neueinsteiger ins CNC-Hobby! So hat man schonmal eine gute Übersicht und auch ein paar realistische Werte parat. Finde deine Videos super interessant und informativ, mach weiter so!
Nice Summary of what to look out for. I totally agree: Avoid Coating wherever you can. Play with the DOC to get the max out of your machine. Take the recommendations of the Manufacturer with a grain of Salt when running the Tools on a Hobby machine (Basically take it as the max what the tool can handle not at what it SHOULD handle on YOUR machine). Experiment a lot on some waste material before ruining your xxx$$ stock material where you have only one go ;-) At some point in time I really need to get my hands on one of those Datron Tools with chip breaker. While I usually avoid 1 flute (don't linke the side finish of all those I tried), this one looks very interesting as a rougher. All serrated rougher I tried so far made nice small chips but somehow clocked up quiet fast. This one looks to be a nice middle ground between small chips and decent cut length to avoid unnecessary head buildup.
Thank you for your comment and input Klaus-Michael good information as always. I think you will not regret the purchase of either of these Datron bits. I have run them straight down into the material like a drill and cut slots at 8m/min up to 4D deep without issues my other bits can’t do that. Viele Grüße nach Deutschland.
So you find the surface speed in a book / list or online reference for the material that you like to cut. Next you use the diameter of your tool to calculate the rpm.
Thanks for your video. Great information. I was wondering if you will cover ball nose end mills for finishing? I am new to milling aluminium with a desktop CNC and ESTLCAM. Can you cover any of these topics? Thanks.
Thank you! Yes I am building a mold for a glider in aluminum that has a finishing pass using a ball nose bit. Hopefully I can get this on video and explain the details.
Excellent sir I appreciate ur knowledge . Thabk u . Could u make video of how to make the toolpath for aluminum in the software ? Aspire doesn’t have adaptive tool path but the fusion 360 has adaptive tool path which won’t put to much stress on the bit
Thank you namocrafts, you are correct Fusion 360 is pretty sweet when it comes to the CAM portion. Aluminum will come back up for yet another holder that I am making soon. I will go into more fusion tool path then.
Thanks for another great video. If I might add to your comment about tools with coatings.... one should avoid coatings with Al when machining aluminium, to avoid worsening the built up edge.
Your content is so useful and informative and talked about consistently with some of my friends and I working on various cnc and machining projects. I very much appreciate your efforts in this space to educate and inform.
Thanks for this, it's very helpful for a newbie to aluminium milling. Could you please consider adding links to the tools you mentioned into the video description?
Thank you Joe, I have one more video on aluminum planned on how to enter the material and thread milling. After that one a video on cutting steel. I think that will wrap up this series.
Excellent, I hope to finish it this week. My thread mill has seen a lot of holes so I hope I don’t break it off before the video is complete as I currently don’t have a second one on hand. Better order one today lol
For cutting Al I use the following Datron bits (as favorite): 4 in 1 Single Flute 0068805E 4in1 Single Flute 0068808E Roughing 00688006E Facing 0078442 hope that helps
Great video, thanks for explaining the feeds and speeds in a easy way to understand and in metrics. :) It is always confusion when having to convert between inches and feets when trying to learn something new.
This is excellent information. There were a lot of conclusions I had already come to myself after many years, but you gave even more helpful information than what I already knew. Thank you for sharing and great video series
Excellent that you got something out of it ! And thank you for your feedback much appreciated.
Love your videos! Really informative. One suggestion would be to add the number of flutes in your cut examples. I know you've discussed it in the beginning, but it's hard to remember unless jumping back and forth of the video. Having the flute numbers together with your feed and speed specs is important in my opinion.
Yes it is! Good point thx for the suggestion !!!
Thanks for sharing some excellent sources and helping de-mystify!
Glad you can use the information
Great video! Thanks for the tips
Glad that you liked it.
And there was me thinking I should get 3 or 4 flute bits and then you go and explain why I need to get single flute tools. Making, it would seem, you the only one on you tube properly explaining this. And trust me I should know because I think I have watched every video on the subject and yours is definitely the most thorough. Good job!!!!!
Thank you so much Malcom.
i REALLY like the cheap Bap300 10mm indexable endmills with APMT1135PDER (polished) inserts
and theyre cheap, i think i payed 3$ for the tool and 22$ for 10 inserts (they ladt forever
they leave a mirror finish on ma diy mill
i also run a 8mm alu-power endmill and its awesome, but it needs the right feeds and speeds to work properly
Thank you for sharing Felix, I have the Alupower endmill das well and for facing they are not that good on my machine for the surface finish. Could you by any chance share a link to the inserts I am looking for the polished version since a while now. Thx
Hi Joerg, again thank you for the great video(s). I have not as yet cut aluminum with my router, only wood and different types of plastic. I know everything you outlined is important to successfully mill AL but how important is it to have a machine that has mass/weight? I've seen some well known CNC brands that do not weigh very much, around 77kg and as advertised can cut AL.
So, my assumption is you can cut AL with just about any CNC router as long as your feeds/speeds are adjusted accordingly??
Thanks, Peter
Hi Peter, thank you for reaching out. So mass will dampen vibration and will provide better cut quality / surface finish. You can cut Al as long as the router is stiff enough. Wide gantries are more prone to deflection under load so a smaller machine can have advantages when cutting aluminum. In general belt drives give more trouble but even with that it is possible to cut Al. I would give it a try it is very rewarding to make your first project in metal and you can further improve your own machine with the parts you make.
Thank you very much for your videos AWESOME !
Can I trust the width of a plastic nylamid fixture plate to keep safe and very exact the drilling and machining depths on an aluminum plate ? I am going to work on a "plastic injection mould" aluminum plate.
Thank you 🙏 so I would face the plate before you use it. It is not even in its thickness measured using a caliper.
Thanks for the explanation. I have a 4 x 8 machine with a 2.2kw spindle. I need to make a top brace like what you have on your machine. Seems like that would really stiffen up the spindle. It could also be used when traming the spindle. Overall great video/ thanks a ton.
Yes the top bracket is a good improvement that really helps to reduce vibration in heavier cuts. Thanks for reaching out.
I think before I’d reduce the DOC for some of these examples, I would make every attempt to reduce the stick out as much as possible. It looks like most of these cuts were done with a stick out of 5 or 6 times the diameter of the bit, which is excessive and will lead to increased deflection at the end of the bit. If you did the same cut using a 1” LOC bit, then repeat with a 1/2” LOC bit, the results are going to be better with the shorter cut length every time.
The top of the bit is held in place with the collet, the bottom of the bit is engaged in the material - the total amount of the bit in the middle that is doing neither is wasted potential rigidity.
That is certainly true and a good point that is often overlooked. However not all of us are going to have the ideal tool for every part we make. Most of my tools require a 20mm DOC hence the longer flutes. Here I make a part that is only 6mm thick and I will not go and buy an extra tool for that. However in a perfect world it is desirable to use a tool as short as possible. Thanks for your comment !
Great info. What are you using to hold your stock? Tape and CA? Thank you!
Yes in most cases when I have to cut out the entire part I use tape and CA. So far this method has been solid. Thanks for reaching out.
What is the minimum RPM for your machine and what RPMs are you running those indexable cutters at? Even at the lower end of what many routers will do (~8k RPM) the surface speed for a 1" cutter is something like 640 m/min.
Had you not turned down the squared shanks on those larger tools would balance have been an issue at those speeds?
Love the content, btw. Thanks for making these videos!
Have a look that vid called CNC router fixture plate I will leave a link in this comment. My min rpm is 8000 I use that manly for drilling. The 1” tool works surprisingly well even with the wrong inserts for steel I did 2 really large plates with no problems. Vibration is not an issue even with turning the shaft down I can run it up the 15k rpm however I use 10k rpm and 0,2mm DOC and I found no difference in using both inserts or just one (by grinding one edge slightly back). The surface finish seems to be equally good. Without coolant I find that sometimes there are some deeper groves to see with coolant that is typically not the case.
th-cam.com/video/3sIxIELSXKo/w-d-xo.html&si=uh08GrRKs1c4adkY
Hi Joerg, a few months ago Piotr Fox Wysocki did a real 'Deep Dive' into surface finishes from a DIY CNC mill, including some excellent sub-micron closeups. His stunning machine is not relevant for me, but I could not help falling in love with it! Well worth a look. th-cam.com/video/hbiDW50UQag/w-d-xo.html
Thank you! Yes I followed his build and love the concept of a granite plate even if the rest would be metal. Thx for the link I will check it out.
what is holding your workpiece?
Tape and superglue. It’s a very good solution for thin plate stock like this.
Check my work holding video there are all the details about it.
A
Very nice series on CNC cutting. Well done simplification without ignoring necessary information.
Thank you so much Peter !!
Awesome
Thank you 🙏
Vielen Dank Jörg, sehr wertvoll für einen Neueinsteiger ins CNC-Hobby! So hat man schonmal eine gute Übersicht und auch ein paar realistische Werte parat.
Finde deine Videos super interessant und informativ, mach weiter so!
Danke Marc !
Nice Summary of what to look out for.
I totally agree: Avoid Coating wherever you can. Play with the DOC to get the max out of your machine. Take the recommendations of the Manufacturer with a grain of Salt when running the Tools on a Hobby machine (Basically take it as the max what the tool can handle not at what it SHOULD handle on YOUR machine). Experiment a lot on some waste material before ruining your xxx$$ stock material where you have only one go ;-)
At some point in time I really need to get my hands on one of those Datron Tools with chip breaker. While I usually avoid 1 flute (don't linke the side finish of all those I tried), this one looks very interesting as a rougher. All serrated rougher I tried so far made nice small chips but somehow clocked up quiet fast. This one looks to be a nice middle ground between small chips and decent cut length to avoid unnecessary head buildup.
Thank you for your comment and input Klaus-Michael good information as always. I think you will not regret the purchase of either of these Datron bits. I have run them straight down into the material like a drill and cut slots at 8m/min up to 4D deep without issues my other bits can’t do that. Viele Grüße nach Deutschland.
How get the rpm?
So you find the surface speed in a book / list or online reference for the material that you like to cut. Next you use the diameter of your tool to calculate the rpm.
Thanks for your video. Great information. I was wondering if you will cover ball nose end mills for finishing? I am new to milling aluminium with a desktop CNC and ESTLCAM. Can you cover any of these topics? Thanks.
Thank you! Yes I am building a mold for a glider in aluminum that has a finishing pass using a ball nose bit. Hopefully I can get this on video and explain the details.
Excellent sir I appreciate ur knowledge . Thabk u . Could u make video of how to make the toolpath for aluminum in the software ? Aspire doesn’t have adaptive tool path but the fusion 360 has adaptive tool path which won’t put to much stress on the bit
Thank you namocrafts, you are correct Fusion 360 is pretty sweet when it comes to the CAM portion. Aluminum will come back up for yet another holder that I am making soon. I will go into more fusion tool path then.
Thanks for another great video. If I might add to your comment about tools with coatings.... one should avoid coatings with Al when machining aluminium, to avoid worsening the built up edge.
I agree, my experience with polished tools has been great. Thank you for your comment
I hope you start making content again :)
I will - first week of September is the video shooting. Should be able to release a new video end of that week !! At leased that is the plan.
@@JBWorx that’s the best news I’ve had all week!
Your content is so useful and informative and talked about consistently with some of my friends and I working on various cnc and machining projects. I very much appreciate your efforts in this space to educate and inform.
That is awesome feedback and makes it worth for me to make more videos.
Perfect 👍
Thanks for this, it's very helpful for a newbie to aluminium milling. Could you please consider adding links to the tools you mentioned into the video description?
Added for the rougher my favorite of all of them.
Cool vid, thoss daytron / doltron bits sound interesting. Do you have a link?
Yes certainly here the 4in1
www.datron.com/shop-cnc-tools/product/4-in-1-single-flute-end-mill/?15655_device=phone
Thanks Joerg, This (along with Part 1) are going to be added to my "Go-to" reference folder. 👍
Excellent!! Love the feedback !
Excellent summary. There is always more to learn. Thank you 👍😎👍
Thank you Joel.
Al theme here is very informative. Learning! Waiting to se what you have to say about "tough" materials. :)
Thank you Joe, I have one more video on aluminum planned on how to enter the material and thread milling. After that one a video on cutting steel. I think that will wrap up this series.
@@JBWorx Im excited for the thread milling video!
Excellent, I hope to finish it this week. My thread mill has seen a lot of holes so I hope I don’t break it off before the video is complete as I currently don’t have a second one on hand. Better order one today lol
Any chance you can post part numbers for your favorite end mills?
For cutting Al I use the following Datron bits (as favorite):
4 in 1 Single Flute 0068805E
4in1 Single Flute 0068808E
Roughing 00688006E
Facing 0078442
hope that helps
@@JBWorx Yes, thank you!
No problem 😉
Wonderful tutorial !!!!
Thank you !
Dude, you rock!!!
Thx !!
Great video, thanks for explaining the feeds and speeds in a easy way to understand and in metrics. :) It is always confusion when having to convert between inches and feets when trying to learn something new.
For me too, I have some shop tools in inches but I like to stay in metric whenever I can.