Thanks for your inspriational 'free' true to life videos Andrew, i like you have certainly learnt by making mistakes fortunately not so much in cost but much more in time which can be a tad frustrating.
what I love about these videos are the mistakes , normal engineering vids would cut them out ,and leave the viewers feeling that they are substandard engineers , love to see the tricks and all the detailed explanations of the materials great work keep it up
Thanks Simon - I just video it as it happens. A lot of things I try I've never attempted before. Doing the videos helps remind me what I did right or wrong. I get great advice from the more experienced, and the video and feedback might help other novices too. It takes a lot of effort producing the videos but I think it's worth it. All the best. Andrew
I am very grateful to you for this video. I am going to be cutting some keyways soon and have learned a lot here. I thought it would be quite easy. Will have to give them a bit more respect and thought. The shaping of the crankwebs gives nice clearance where you cut and shaped the bearing housing. Looking really good. Might be worth investing in some small diameter silver steel for future pinning jobs.
Hi Tim - yeah silver steel would be better than some old mild steel nails - but fingers crossed they will hold. They were a nice tight fit. From various comments it looks like I would have benefitted from using a slot drill rather than an end mill. I hadn't understood the difference until I googled it. Something else to add to my list! Some have commented that the angle on the crankwebs should have been cut using the lathe. Apparently the drawing indicates this. Still, it looks OK and clearence is good. I never thought that keyways would be as challenging. All the best. Andrew
Slot drills would be better...clue in the name ;-) It is still tricky cutting a small deep slot. Fast cutter speed essential. You call your channel Learning Turning and I think many of us have learned (or been reminded of) something from this video.
Good video Andrew. Even a top machinist do make mistakes. You learn from mistakes. To be a very good machinist/toolmaker you need to make mistakes in the beginning.
Thanks John. It's a bit time consuming and sometimes difficult videoing and machining at the same time - especially for someone like me who can't multi-task! I hope they help encourage others to get more into model engineering. They also remind me how I did it and help me avoid making the same mistakes again! All the best. Andrew
Hi Andrew love your videos as you show the mistakes aswel and like me your learning from them, you did the correct thing by taking the crank apart as if you didn't the flywheel spokes wouldn't of lined up when asembled. Just be careful when you cut the key ways in the bosses on the flywheels if you don't get them the same the spokes won't match and line up with each other. I'm on my third hit and miss engine and still learning Best wishes Johnny gitts
Hi Johnnie - many thanks for the advice. I was also not sure whether the cam gear and timing might be affected. It would have preyed on my mind if I hadn't bitten the bullet and corrected it. Wow - third hit n mss - impressive. All the best. Andrew
As usual good work, but the drawing suggested that you tern the angles on the crank webs not mill them. The two lines on the drawing is the indicator. Keep it up you gowing well, all the best from South Wales.
Hi Jonathan - many thanks for pointing that out - I have learnt something new too. When I made my first engine, I knew little about drawings. It's a subject in it's own right. All the best. Andrew
Hi Andrew, I know this an old video now, but I believe the reason your cutter broke is because it is an End Mill. They are not designed to plunge cut as they are ground with relief in the centre. When you plunge it will leave a small pip sticking up so when you start your X feed this is what broke your cutter. You need some Slot Mills - they are designed to plunge ie for blind slots such as this keyway. The teeth on the bottom are different length, so no pip.... I enjoy your videos very much, you do fine work. I had the benefit of a Toolmaking apprenticeship many years ago. Hope this helps. I am retired now and just about to have a go at this lovely little engine...
Hi Graham Thanks for the info. It wasn't long after this video that I learned about slot drills (aka two flute end mills). I must say that I think that the Farm Boy is a great little engine. Even now, once the carb is primed, she starts on the first turn. A rock solid design. I hope yours turns out good too. Cheers Andrew
Thanks for video - I appreciate your honesty! Just a note on the chamfers on the crank: The drawing shows them as turned (the double lines are a hint, but the dead giveaway is the curved profile visible inside the body of your micrometer at 1:53). I'm sure they will work fine as you have machined them. Would have been quick and easy to do on the lathe, but then you wouldn't have got to play with your sine bar and gauge blocks :D
Thanks Jason. I just show it how it is and I get some great advice on how to improve too. I also hope it helps others avoid making the same mistakes as me. Cheers Andrew
Thanks for sharing! Andrew, not now but later, you can hide your mistake by filling the unnecessary slots with JB Weld or double slot what goes on the shaft,.
Not sure it would make any difference for this small engine but new keyways are usually cut 90 degrees to the old ones to maintain strength in the shaft. Great work as always. Im really Enjoying the content you put out
Hi Brandon - many thanks for the feedback. I just show it as it happens - warts and all. Yeah - makes sense to cut new keyways at 90 degrees. Glad I'm not alone at doing it. All the best. Andrew
For cutting these small keyways I find a woodruff cutter is much more robust. Woodruff keys are also easier to machine than standard round ended keys. For flywheels a woodruff is just as effective. I find that for complex parts such as a crankshaft I write down the machining process order, then write down another order and a third for luck. Then I work out the advantages and disadvantages of each taking into acccount tools used, clamping and fixing etc.. then pick the best bits from each to give me final order of production.
Thanks for the info Steve. First I've heard of a woodruff cutter. Just searched, and now I understand. Quite expensive for just a couple of cuts, but something for me to keep in mind for the future. All the best. Andrew
@@learningturningmetal about £9 from eBay but almost indestructible and the half circular keys are easy to turn up on a lathe the cut in half with a hacksaw. Also if you want to cut ornamental grooves in long parts like supports, columns or beams it gives a nice shaped end to the groove and you can get really thin cutters that take a lot of abuse, much more than a traditional end cutter. For larger scale stuff you can go another way and get an involuted gear cutter for use on an arbor. The trick is loads of knowledge and try different things. Old engineering books, cheap on eBay have loads of useful info. Steve
You need to turn your rpm way up with those small cutters. That's why it broke, you were running it too slow. I love these videos by the way! I'm going to start on this engine once I get my mill wired up.
I commend you on your due diligence mixed with a willingness to try alternatives. However, allow me to warn you with respect to the crankshaft. I too made the crankshaft as an assembly. It was easier than the two attempts at turning it from a single bar. The plans call for tool steel and after my experience, I can see why. The fly wheels on this engine are heavy and firing stroke provides quite a kick. I had my crankshaft glued and pined and it still came apart and ruined the bushings as well. I am going back to the tool steel and get it right. Just my experience.
Hi Steven - many thanks for sharing your experience. Having purchased a couple of flywheel castings I now appreciate the amount of torque that crankshaft will have to cope with. I guess I'm at the point of no return so I will just have to hope that the loctite 638 and my pinning holds. Time will tell! If it does fail I will have to revisit, and I will certainly document the failure as a warning to others not to follow in my footsteps. Anyway, I need to bite the bullet at some point and have a go at machining a crankshaft out of one piece of bar. I hope your's turns out well. Thanks again. Andrew
G’day Andrew. 3mm end mills just wait to be broken, doesn’t take much as you found out:-( And those key ways look so innocent. Good to see you didn’t scrap the material, once it’s fitted together you won’t see them anyway, but you’ll need to remove this video later to remove any evidence:-) well done. Cheers Peter
Can we have an update on what is happening with the new mill that had to go back, please. After you disassembled the shaft, I thought that the colouring indicated a reasonably high application of heat to break the Loctite. If that was so, would the temper of the steel have been affected?. I'm a newbie, so be gentle with me, I could be talking complete rubbish, but I have to start somewhere. This channel is just SOOOO interesting, I'm hooked and subbed. Thank You.
Hi John - I don't know much about hardening steel either. The loctite doesn't require a massive temperature to break it, so probably not an issue. I guess that to harden silver steel, it needs to be heated until red and then dunked in some oil. I think it can then be tempered in an oven for an hour or so. I have little experience of this. Glad you like the content. An update on the new mill will be coming soon! All the best. Andrew
Hi mate - I think I got the majority of my reamers from Arc Euro Trade. They have a wide range - both hand and machine reamers and they seem pretty good. Cheers Andrew
Nice job Andrew. Just out of interest what did you use to pin the crank webs ? Also thanks for making the mistakes that I would have made and thankfully now can avoid. Slot drills are good but take care on a small mill ‘ it’s best to cut slot undersize then index across eg for a 6mm slot use a 5mill slot drill then index over plus and minus 0.5 to open up to 6mm
Thanks for the advice Andrew. I think I need to buy a few slot drills. I've just googled the difference between slot drills and end mills, so I now have a better understanding. For pinning I just used some mild steel nails about 1.2mm in diameter. Probably better to use silver steel, but I hadn't got any small diameter. There is always something else to buy! I hope you are making good progress with your stirling engine. All the best. Andrew
Hi Ron. Yeah all OK here - I hope you are too. Unfortunately I've got sidetracked recently. Major problems with my PC at the moment. Managed to locate the problem but the replacement part (GPU) didn't work and I had issues getting a refund - it all takes time away from the workshop. So the PC is running like a 3 legged dog at the moment! Also been on a holiday for a few days and it now looks like I'm going to have to do some home improvements - I hate decorating! My next video will cover the conrod for the hit n miss engine. I've done some work on it but I'm still debating on how to approach the split end bushing. I'm having a few beers with Peter (aka Model Steamers) this afternoon, so I will be seeking his advice. I hope to make progress soon. Thanks for checking me out! All the best. Andrew
Hi Nick - yeah we are good thanks - hope you are too! Been a little side-tracked.... Got a Warco WM18 mill and been installing 3-axis DRO. - a bit fiddly! Had a bit of a holiday break too. Started working on the hit n miss conrod only to find that I need yet another reamer. Just waiting for this to get delivered. All the best. Andrew
It is difficult to tell via a video but are you running your small cutters fast enough, i suspect that even at full tilt they might be too slow, so extra care should be taken to not give an uneven feed. Carbide tooling abhors shock loads due to its extreme brittleness. Re ignition for your engine, had you thought to build yourself a magneto? Now there's a challenge.😉
Thanks for the advice Chris. A magneto sounds interesting but I think it would be well beyond me. Still lots of bits to make for this little engine which will keep me entertained for a wee while. Cheers Andrew
Hi Andrew, a couple of comments if I may. You were lucky when drilling and reaming the crank webs that they remained clamped-up OK. One of them only needs to be a gnats cock thicker, and the other one wouldn't clamp tightly. Also, I would have put a 3/8" pin in the reamed holes before machining the crank pin holes to ensure the pitch remains the same.
Hi Steve, I get exactly where you are coming from. In fact one of the crank webs was ever so slightly smaller than the other one. However the loctite 638 worked a treat and managed to hold everything together. Many thanks for the suggestion though. Next time I might well put a pin in the reamed hole - belt and braces, just in case. Cheers Andrew
Thanks for your inspriational 'free' true to life videos Andrew, i like you have certainly learnt by making mistakes fortunately not so much in cost but much more in time which can be a tad frustrating.
Thanks Andy. It's all good fun and helps keep the brain active!
All the best.
Andrew
what I love about these videos are the mistakes , normal engineering vids would cut them out ,and leave the viewers feeling that they are substandard engineers , love to see the tricks and all the detailed explanations of the materials great work keep it up
Thanks Simon - I just video it as it happens. A lot of things I try I've never attempted before. Doing the videos helps remind me what I did right or wrong. I get great advice from the more experienced, and the video and feedback might help other novices too. It takes a lot of effort producing the videos but I think it's worth it.
All the best.
Andrew
I am very grateful to you for this video. I am going to be cutting some keyways soon and have learned a lot here. I thought it would be quite easy. Will have to give them a bit more respect and thought. The shaping of the crankwebs gives nice clearance where you cut and shaped the bearing housing. Looking really good. Might be worth investing in some small diameter silver steel for future pinning jobs.
Hi Tim - yeah silver steel would be better than some old mild steel nails - but fingers crossed they will hold. They were a nice tight fit. From various comments it looks like I would have benefitted from using a slot drill rather than an end mill. I hadn't understood the difference until I googled it. Something else to add to my list! Some have commented that the angle on the crankwebs should have been cut using the lathe. Apparently the drawing indicates this. Still, it looks OK and clearence is good.
I never thought that keyways would be as challenging.
All the best.
Andrew
Slot drills would be better...clue in the name ;-) It is still tricky cutting a small deep slot. Fast cutter speed essential. You call your channel Learning Turning and I think many of us have learned (or been reminded of) something from this video.
Good video Andrew. Even a top machinist do make mistakes. You learn from mistakes. To be a very good machinist/toolmaker you need to make mistakes in the beginning.
Yeah Gary - I agree entirely, especially when there are no lives at stake. All good fun.
All the best.
Andrew
Great videos, thank you very much for taking the time to make these for us.
Thanks John. It's a bit time consuming and sometimes difficult videoing and machining at the same time - especially for someone like me who can't multi-task! I hope they help encourage others to get more into model engineering. They also remind me how I did it and help me avoid making the same mistakes again!
All the best.
Andrew
Hi Andrew love your videos as you show the mistakes aswel and like me your learning from them, you did the correct thing by taking the crank apart as if you didn't the flywheel spokes wouldn't of lined up when asembled. Just be careful when you cut the key ways in the bosses on the flywheels if you don't get them the same the spokes won't match and line up with each other. I'm on my third hit and miss engine and still learning
Best wishes Johnny gitts
Hi Johnnie - many thanks for the advice. I was also not sure whether the cam gear and timing might be affected. It would have preyed on my mind if I hadn't bitten the bullet and corrected it. Wow - third hit n mss - impressive.
All the best.
Andrew
As usual good work, but the drawing suggested that you tern the angles on the crank webs not mill them.
The two lines on the drawing is the indicator.
Keep it up you gowing well, all the best from South Wales.
Hi Jon, Good spotting, I've learnt something.
Hi Jonathan - many thanks for pointing that out - I have learnt something new too. When I made my first engine, I knew little about drawings. It's a subject in it's own right.
All the best.
Andrew
Hi Andrew, I know this an old video now, but I believe the reason your cutter broke is because it is an End Mill. They are not designed to plunge cut as they are ground with relief in the centre. When you plunge it will leave a small pip sticking up so when you start your X feed this is what broke your cutter. You need some Slot Mills - they are designed to plunge ie for blind slots such as this keyway. The teeth on the bottom are different length, so no pip.... I enjoy your videos very much, you do fine work. I had the benefit of a Toolmaking apprenticeship many years ago. Hope this helps. I am retired now and just about to have a go at this lovely little engine...
Hi Graham
Thanks for the info. It wasn't long after this video that I learned about slot drills (aka two flute end mills). I must say that I think that the Farm Boy is a great little engine. Even now, once the carb is primed, she starts on the first turn. A rock solid design. I hope yours turns out good too.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks for video - I appreciate your honesty! Just a note on the chamfers on the crank: The drawing shows them as turned (the double lines are a hint, but the dead giveaway is the curved profile visible inside the body of your micrometer at 1:53). I'm sure they will work fine as you have machined them. Would have been quick and easy to do on the lathe, but then you wouldn't have got to play with your sine bar and gauge blocks :D
Hi Mate - many thanks for pointing out the hint in the drawing. Now it makes sense. Yeah - it was fun using the sine bar though.
Cheers
Andrew
Thank you Andrew for another video and learning as usual
Cheers John - and all the best.
Andrew
Great work Andrew!
Absolutely
Great watching people have problems in machining more true to life 👍
Thanks Jason. I just show it how it is and I get some great advice on how to improve too. I also hope it helps others avoid making the same mistakes as me.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Andrew,
Another enjoyable video... Good progress made...
Take care
Paul,,
Thanks Paul - I'm getting there slowly.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks for sharing! Andrew, not now but later, you can hide your mistake by filling the unnecessary slots with JB Weld or double slot what goes on the shaft,.
Hi Craig - good old JB Weld. Where would I be without it!
Cheers
Andrew
Super! Starting to look like an engine now
Thanks James - slowly getting there. But still loads to do.
Cheers
Andrew
Learning Turning Metal - by Andrew Whale keep you busy 👍
Not sure it would make any difference for this small engine but new keyways are usually cut 90 degrees to the old ones to maintain strength in the shaft. Great work as always. Im really Enjoying the content you put out
Hi Brandon - many thanks for the feedback. I just show it as it happens - warts and all. Yeah - makes sense to cut new keyways at 90 degrees. Glad I'm not alone at doing it.
All the best.
Andrew
Silver steel / drill rod/ O1 tool steel. It has various names, however silver steel is most common for the pre-ground type. Coming along nicely Andrew
Many thanks for the advice. Slowly getting there!
All the best.
Andrew
Coming along very 👍 nice
Cheers Jason - all the best!
Andrew
For cutting these small keyways I find a woodruff cutter is much more robust. Woodruff keys are also easier to machine than standard round ended keys. For flywheels a woodruff is just as effective. I find that for complex parts such as a crankshaft I write down the machining process order, then write down another order and a third for luck. Then I work out the advantages and disadvantages of each taking into acccount tools used, clamping and fixing etc.. then pick the best bits from each to give me final order of production.
Thanks for the info Steve. First I've heard of a woodruff cutter. Just searched, and now I understand. Quite expensive for just a couple of cuts, but something for me to keep in mind for the future.
All the best.
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal about £9 from eBay but almost indestructible and the half circular keys are easy to turn up on a lathe the cut in half with a hacksaw. Also if you want to cut ornamental grooves in long parts like supports, columns or beams it gives a nice shaped end to the groove and you can get really thin cutters that take a lot of abuse, much more than a traditional end cutter. For larger scale stuff you can go another way and get an involuted gear cutter for use on an arbor. The trick is loads of knowledge and try different things. Old engineering books, cheap on eBay have loads of useful info. Steve
You need to turn your rpm way up with those small cutters. That's why it broke, you were running it too slow. I love these videos by the way! I'm going to start on this engine once I get my mill wired up.
Hi Jeremy - thanks for the advice. Good luck with your build.
Cheers
Andrew
Great work!!!
I commend you on your due diligence mixed with a willingness to try alternatives. However, allow me to warn you with respect to the crankshaft. I too made the crankshaft as an assembly. It was easier than the two attempts at turning it from a single bar. The plans call for tool steel and after my experience, I can see why. The fly wheels on this engine are heavy and firing stroke provides quite a kick. I had my crankshaft glued and pined and it still came apart and ruined the bushings as well. I am going back to the tool steel and get it right. Just my experience.
Hi Steven - many thanks for sharing your experience. Having purchased a couple of flywheel castings I now appreciate the amount of torque that crankshaft will have to cope with. I guess I'm at the point of no return so I will just have to hope that the loctite 638 and my pinning holds. Time will tell! If it does fail I will have to revisit, and I will certainly document the failure as a warning to others not to follow in my footsteps. Anyway, I need to bite the bullet at some point and have a go at machining a crankshaft out of one piece of bar. I hope your's turns out well.
Thanks again.
Andrew
G’day Andrew. 3mm end mills just wait to be broken, doesn’t take much as you found out:-(
And those key ways look so innocent. Good to see you didn’t scrap the material, once it’s fitted together you won’t see them anyway, but you’ll need to remove this video later to remove any evidence:-) well done.
Cheers
Peter
Ha ha - nice one Peter! Yeah I thought those little keyways would be an absolut doddle.
All the best.
Andrew
Can we have an update on what is happening with the new mill that had to go back, please. After you disassembled the shaft, I thought that the colouring indicated a reasonably high application of heat to break the Loctite. If that was so, would the temper of the steel have been affected?. I'm a newbie, so be gentle with me, I could be talking complete rubbish, but I have to start somewhere. This channel is just SOOOO interesting, I'm hooked and subbed. Thank You.
Hi John - I don't know much about hardening steel either. The loctite doesn't require a massive temperature to break it, so probably not an issue. I guess that to harden silver steel, it needs to be heated until red and then dunked in some oil. I think it can then be tempered in an oven for an hour or so. I have little experience of this.
Glad you like the content. An update on the new mill will be coming soon!
All the best.
Andrew
@@learningturningmetal right on.
Hi, another great video. Who is the company who supplys your reamers ?
Hi mate - I think I got the majority of my reamers from Arc Euro Trade. They have a wide range - both hand and machine reamers and they seem pretty good.
Cheers
Andrew
Thanks very much
Nice job Andrew. Just out of interest what did you use to pin the crank webs ? Also thanks for making the mistakes that I would have made and thankfully now can avoid. Slot drills are good but take care on a small mill ‘ it’s best to cut slot undersize then index across eg for a 6mm slot use a 5mill slot drill then index over plus and minus 0.5 to open up to 6mm
Thanks for the advice Andrew. I think I need to buy a few slot drills. I've just googled the difference between slot drills and end mills, so I now have a better understanding.
For pinning I just used some mild steel nails about 1.2mm in diameter. Probably better to use silver steel, but I hadn't got any small diameter. There is always something else to buy! I hope you are making good progress with your stirling engine.
All the best.
Andrew
Silver steel is precision ground usually centreless
Many thanks for the info Jason.
Cheers
Andrew
Are you going to pin the crankshaft or rely on loctite for assembly.
Hi mate - I did pin the crankshaft (16:46) but maybe you blinked.
Cheers
Andrew
I have learned so much from my mistakes, I think I’ll have to make a few more mistakes. I should end up as a genius after few rounds of mistakes. 😂😂👍
Ha ha Mark. But it is a great way to learn!
Cheers
Andrew
AWOL, hope all's well.
Hi Ron. Yeah all OK here - I hope you are too. Unfortunately I've got sidetracked recently. Major problems with my PC at the moment. Managed to locate the problem but the replacement part (GPU) didn't work and I had issues getting a refund - it all takes time away from the workshop. So the PC is running like a 3 legged dog at the moment! Also been on a holiday for a few days and it now looks like I'm going to have to do some home improvements - I hate decorating! My next video will cover the conrod for the hit n miss engine. I've done some work on it but I'm still debating on how to approach the split end bushing. I'm having a few beers with Peter (aka Model Steamers) this afternoon, so I will be seeking his advice.
I hope to make progress soon. Thanks for checking me out!
All the best.
Andrew
Andrew, slot mills cut slots very easily. Certainly a lot easier than end mills
Three fluters do the work of either equally well.
Thanks Pierre - I've just googled the difference between slot mills and end mills. Very interesting. I need to buy some slot mills!
Cheers
Andrew
Morning Andrew, you've not put anything anything up for three weeks. I'm hoping that you and yours are OK?
Hi Nick - yeah we are good thanks - hope you are too! Been a little side-tracked.... Got a Warco WM18 mill and been installing 3-axis DRO. - a bit fiddly! Had a bit of a holiday break too. Started working on the hit n miss conrod only to find that I need yet another reamer. Just waiting for this to get delivered.
All the best.
Andrew
Pleased hear to it. Hope all goes well with the Warco.
Nick.
It is difficult to tell via a video but are you running your small cutters fast enough, i suspect that even at full tilt they might be too slow, so extra care should be taken to not give an uneven feed. Carbide tooling abhors shock loads due to its extreme brittleness.
Re ignition for your engine, had you thought to build yourself a magneto? Now there's a challenge.😉
Thanks for the advice Chris. A magneto sounds interesting but I think it would be well beyond me. Still lots of bits to make for this little engine which will keep me entertained for a wee while.
Cheers
Andrew
Hi Andrew, a couple of comments if I may. You were lucky when drilling and reaming the crank webs that they remained clamped-up OK. One of them only needs to be a gnats cock thicker, and the other one wouldn't clamp tightly. Also, I would have put a 3/8" pin in the reamed holes before machining the crank pin holes to ensure the pitch remains the same.
Hi Steve, I get exactly where you are coming from. In fact one of the crank webs was ever so slightly smaller than the other one. However the loctite 638 worked a treat and managed to hold everything together. Many thanks for the suggestion though. Next time I might well put a pin in the reamed hole - belt and braces, just in case.
Cheers
Andrew