Perfect, a front derailure that actually works and the ease of getting into the proper gear with out clunking and banging up a large range cassette. Thank you Shimano
I just "downgrade" my old gravel from RED to GRX. What a big improvement this was. Brakes that works, and a front derailleur that can handle a 17 tooth gap almost effortless, compared to the RED crap that struggles with a 13 tooth gap and from time to time will just drop outwards because gods knows.
Ya when i look @ 2x setups. SRAM falls flat on its face on gear range alone. Meanwhile the GRX kicks it up a notch. The grx820-2 crank almost hits the low end of a grx610-2 crank and the high end of a 105 50T big ring. Its sitting right in the middle, giving better climbing than a stock 1x, yet only 2 teeth off a road chainring on the top end. This is the universal drivetrain IMO.
Shimano: reliable, buttery shifting, can make FD, battery life, cassettes with wide range and many 1 tooth jumps, chainring choices in 2t increments for your riding pleasure, wider tires OK, 24mm spindle for max BB compatibility, GRX crank is a metal chunk that will win a fight against the rock it hits Dave: entertain me
The batteries aren't reliable and they are expensive. Shifting? Sram is better. Cassettes? Sram have a wider range. Chainrings? No direct mount options like Sram. Wider tyres? Front mech limits that. The only good point you make is the 24mm BB axle.
@@adamhindle9215 Batteries aren't reliable? Says you. I've had the same Ultegra Di2 setup for over half a decade and never had an issue. I average 10k miles a year btw. Also two SRAM batteries cost as much as one Di2. SRAM shifting is better?! Pretty general statement and I think you're the first person to ever say that. Wider range? Whatev. I'll gladly take the tighter one tooth jumps on an 11-34/36 over 10-44 XPLR. Those 32-38 and 38-44 tooth jumps are a little much. Plus when do you ever really need a 10 tooth cog when riding gravel? Maybe on paved descents? Sprinting aside, I rarely ever hit the 11 tooth on my road bike. And you basically have to be running a 38 tooth front ring to get any real benefit from the easier gears, which somewhat negates the 10 tooth. Direct mount? Ok, you got me there I guess. And about wider tires. Personally I like to race gravel so 40mm are generally good enough for me. 45 max depending on the course. And as such I'm focusing on a gravel race setup, not some mullet build type who 2x 12s GRX Di2 is obviously not aimed at.
With GRX 12s 1x there are no 1 tooth jumps at all. The 10t-12t jump in the 10-45 cassette sucks big time. What is more there are only cassettes for microspline hubs which you still don't find fitted on road/gravel wheels with few exceptions. Also practically no microspline conversion freehub bodies on the market. Why can't they do a 11-44 (or similar) NON-MICROSPLINE cassette like SRAM? 400% range is all I need.
We went for a bikepacking adventure. Lots of climbing and offroad. Lots of people with modern bikes and a variety of shifting systems. A guy showed up with an old triple. He had the ‘do it all range’. No one else had. 😅
I've had GRX Di2 for three years now: 2x11, 11-40 cassette with 30/46 chainrings. It's been god damn perfect for every terrain I have ridden and 100% reliable. Very large range and small steps. Very, I mean very good lever ergonomics, easily best I've ever used. Probably gonna buy spare derailleurs when the prices drop, just in case I crash or damage them somehow. It is so damn good. No need for 1 extra gear, at all.
I don’t understand the desire for wireless. Unless you’re swapping frames regularly there’s literally zero benefit, you could even argue there are real drawbacks, reduced battery life, more batteries to charge, potentially slower shifts.
I'm happy with the current Ultegra and DA way, you want semiwireless. you got it. but let me wire it if I don't want to mess with coin cells. The 105 way is the wrong way.
There is one big benefit of wireless shifters for consumers: with the proliferation of bikes which use complete internal routing, cable shifting does not work so well with the tight bends the internal routing requires. For manufacturers, wireless greatly simplifies the build process, saving them lots of money (imagine building up hundreds of bikes). And I actually run mechanical GRX 12 speed...
@@barrowsworm1226 I’m not talking about mechanical vs electronic, I’m referring to wired vs semi-wired vs wireless…and oh yes, all the savings the consumer is getting from OE’s saving a few min on builds per bike, please show me where that’s actually happening 😂
@@barrowsworm1226 I have 12 speed di2 on my road bike, fully wired, I understand the problem with mechanical wires, but I'm talking about electrical cables. It can go almost in any tight space and works perfectly. I don't see the benefit for the customer. Once installed is going to stay there for years.
@@LainOTN isnt Di2 partially wireless? Or are older ones fully wired? I know the stuff im seeing has wireless connection between the derailleurs and shifters, with the shifters using coin cell batteries.
David, I would not say Shimano lacks ambition... I ride and race gravel ,and am on 1x 12 speed mechanical GRX, and it is fantastic. The 1x 12 speed Di2 is on the way, it will just be a little more of a wait. I find it funny how many people seem to think that SRAM offers more: Shimano shifting, both mechanical and electronic, is faster and smoother than SRAM (transmission is especially slow), and Shimano brakes are notably better in both power and modulation vs SRAM (with the possible exception of the new RED AXS, which apparently has improved brakes, I have not experienced that yet). Back to 1x: Shimano 1x can leverage the XTR cassettes at 10-45 and 10-52, giving a nice range of gearing options-yes, I am a little disappointed that we are going to have to wait bit longer for 1x Di2 12 speed, but as you have noted in your review, the 1x mechanical GRX 12 speed is superb.
The new red is more in line with Shimano brakes, I don't think it's better but it's definitely not worse. Trying to sell 2x is more sensible for a company, and for experience I got a lot of clients who changed their 1x to 2x because of the lack of range, or a second dedicated bike for road or mtb. I had a few going 46-30/11-40, and it had pretty good shifting for my surprise. For me, the sensible choice money wise, is going for Sram, because it's cheaper and good.
Sram Rival axs RD shifting is faster than shimano grx or ultegra di2. I own all 3. Shimano FD is better strait away. Can't feel a difference in braking - that's a draw.
@@christophertan3195 Exactly. Still no wheels or conversion freehub bodies on the market. Gear jumps in the fast gear realm on the 10-45 cassette are bad.
@@christophertan3195 Huh? Of course it exists, microspline is a well accepted standard. I have a microspline freehub for my wheels. This is a really good reason to always use DT hubs, besides all the other good reasons, easy, easy to change the free hub to whatever standard needed.
I think this groupset is just to pacify us. GRX Di2 has been wanted for a while so they have launched it easily with current technology. The real innovation will be be the 1X as they know demand is there. I think it will be lauched with a brand new XT/XTR Mtb Di2 groupset.(With i am guessing some cross compatibility) which they will be finalising. I am hoping for something special!
1x just doesnt have the range to cover me on the top end. Chain stress/wear also increases as the cog gets smaller @ the rear. I think this is why shimano isnt dropping to a 10 tooth cog yet. Im always hoping for more range. I would like to see a 13 speed 11-38 rear cassette with a 48/30 crank. Maybe a 50/32 as well? Or even a 42/24 for the adventurous bike packers. The 42/24 would give mountainbike like climbing and gravel like top end. Im all about having gears i never need, until i do. Although i hate 3x setups which is what im currently using on my mtb. I just ordered a BMC roadmachine, I'm still hoping the logistics work out (its a new model). It comes with 105 which is great for now, but i will want to change it over to the grx cranks and front derailleur im guessing for better climbing. At some point after setting it up with a 40mm gravel wheelset. Im hoping by then i can find di2 on sale as a second gen comes out?
Well, some manufacturers make the equipment to be used and abused in a real world and others constantly experiment with new things (sometimes they come up with new effective designs but usually end up with blingy, costly and superficial curiosities). I buy the former type of stuff but truly applaud the latter! Someone has to pay for the progress - at the end of the day...
There are advantages to both approaches. 1x is simpler, more intuitive to use, has less risk of chain drop, and IF the gear range is set up correctly, it also offers less drivetrain friction, as one is more often in a larger chainring and larger cog (I get that if set up incorrectly, there can be additional friction from the chain angle, but this can be avoided with careful attention to one's gear ratios and chainline). 1x is also a bit lighter, and allows for better tire/mud clearance, without having to resort to a wider chainline which compromises Q-factor efficiency for most riders. 2x, on the other hand, can offer a bit wider range, and (sometimes, not always) slightly closer steps between gears. Either set up can work well, and it really is down to personal preference. At the top level of racing, both systems have had success, so clearly, either can work well.
It has crazy range, and the front mech just works. If the range is extra large and I can get smooth transitions, I should be excited. It's funny that people pretends 1x is as continuous as a CVT transmission... but it isn't, obviously.
1x 12speed XPLR has a range of .9:1 - 4:1 (10-44 with 40) 1x 13speed XPLR has a range of .86:1 - 4:1 (10-46 with 40) 2x 12speed GRX has a range of .86:1 - 4.36:1 (11-36 with 48/31) 2x 12 speed 105 has a range of .94:1 - 4.54:1 (11-36 with 50/34) 1:1 - 4.9:1 (11-36 with 52/36) 1.05:1 - 4.9:1 (11-34 with 52/36)
Funny, I had the same feelings yesterday, as though Shimano didn't really want the lead in gravel. They certainly have the size and capability as a company to produce better gravel products than SRAM, but maybe it doesn't make financial sense or they have other reasons. I see in the comments below that many Shimano loyalists are offended by your honesty. I'm not here to Troll, and you have in the past been kinder and unbiased to vendors than I might have been; your comments are echoed by other reviewers. Not every release it going to be full of shock and awe, as say the first AXS 12spd, first D/A D12, or the RED release from days ago; this appears to be a modest improvement and there's nothing wrong or offensive in stating such. Keep the great content coming David! I for one am hoping that you're going to do a deep dive review on that Falcon behind you😊
The comments are great and really helpful. Thank you all so much. Edited to add that I want this groupset. I want two gravel bikes. One at the road end of the spectrum and one at the mountain bike end of the spectrum. This groupset would be great for the bike on the road end of the spectrum. Definitely want a one by for the mountain bike end of the spectrum.
I disagree with your statement that an integrated battery is easier to deal with compared to SRAM's removable batteries. With an integrated battery, you will need to have a power source right next to where you keep your bike. While it may not be a problem for most, SRAMs removable batteries means you can charge them wherever. I personally have a battery charging station that contains two sram chargers, and cords so I can charge my front and rear lights and computer. If I want to charge my powermeter, I have to move my bike to a location where my charging cord can reach. Its a minor inconvenience, but still an inconvenience.
@@flattrack33 buying a power bank to charge the batteries is no more of an inconvenience than setting up a "battery charging station" somewhere in your house! Stop making up things which really do not matter. Of course, many people will be storing their bike close enough to a power outlet anyway...
@@barrowsworm1226 I use a power brick on my Di2, works charms. Even used my phone on some occasion just to check if that was possible. and yes it is, you can charge Di2 with your phone.
The consumer and reviewer complex's desire for some sort of super awesome upgrade every year makes me shake my head. Everything that was announced as part of this "upgrade" was predictable. Shimano's upgrades have always been conservative, I don't know why people would have expected anything else from them. The only thing that would have been nice would have been a rear derailleur that supports a bigger cassette, but 11 speed 2x with a 40 tooth rear cassette is possible now and works fairly well.
Grx stated out one step behind the current set with mashup of road and MTB parts. So this new group parts is as expected following that process. DA or XTR will get the new wireless and extra cog first. Then process down through the road and MTB sets. Then shimano will refresh grx for version 3 in 4 to 6 years time. So sram will be dominate in the gravel/ cx/ MTB space due to better gearing range, ease of setup/ use, and now extra bits like power meters with computers.
1x will likely be an off shoot of Next Gen XTR/XT which will be wireless shift pod, and battery on mech like SRAM. Only downside to this is battery life. Current 11 speed and fully wired 12 speed battery life is amazing, little bit more drain when you go to wireless shifters. New XT/XTR/GRX will require more attention & it isn't a reach thinking that trying to get that battery life extended is the big blocker.
What a miss. I can't believe I wasted my time waiting for GRX Di2 thinking I was going to be able to get a Shimano electronic 1x group with a clutched rear derailleur. I mean, how many years behind SRAM do they really need to be? Excuse me, I'm off tho buy an Xplor drivetrain. So long Shitmano.
Why don't they make a budget 1x e-shifting option with a battery strapped on the seat stay? It's simple to install and can feature removable battery, and I don't think a small external battery would look conspicuous on a gravel bike with bags and accessories. I'm so fed up with the obsession of hiding things in the frame.
Influencers and the bike industry seem to be the main ones pushing a 1x set up. I'll admit its great on mountain bikes but really don't get the appeal on a gravel bike when so much of a ride is at higher speeds and on roads.
Honestly David - you know that 1x GRX Di2 is coming - Shimano have been very clear - the 1x is likely to have a lot in common with Di2 MTB XT that is also due…
Well. Shimano don’t release 1x groupset because they don’t want to leak mtb di2 groupset. Now shimano need to worry about their opponent like sram , chinese brand…
2:17 argument for 1x: simplicity. Ok, so why complicate it with batteries and a motor? Seems as unnecessary as routing a brake hose through a headset bearing.
Shimano needs rality check. It doesnt listen to their customers and its falling years behind with R&D. Truly sad situation. I could even see success for 825 in different price range but its way too expensive. This product will not sell... SRAM must be celebrating like crazy.
This release really needed an 11-40 cassette for better range. 160/165 cranks are absent too, unless you mix with 105 or Ultegra which gives you even less spinning gears for steep climbs. Shimano really dropped the ball with regards to the average consumer.
I do not get folks complaining about cranks and available gear ratios: everyones' wants/needs here are different. Shimano's offerings fit the vast majority of riders, and for those who need something different, there are plenty of compatible cranks and chainring options available-you can get a crank of any length you want, and rings compatible with Shimano 12 speed in just about any size you want-just be a little creative!
Not at all. Like I've said if you want very low gears for base training, and you happen to live somewhere very hilly. If you use a 165 crank a 34-36 isn't enough, unless your sub 80kg. Shimano don't do a mtb 12 speed cassette that runs from 11-40+
@@siy01 That is a very, very specific case scenario, which would apply to only a very few people. If one does have special needs like that, there are plenty of solutions available in the aftermarket. And, a 31-36 is not enough, which Shimano does offer? Or, you could go with an MTB 2x crank. I do not like that GRX 1x only offers a 42 T ring, max, but is it a problem, no, there are plenty of aftermarket rings available to suit other gearing needs.
@@barrowsworm1226 What do you think David Arthur's main issue with the groupset is?? It's that having a massive rear derailleur that only goes to 36 for gravel, is playing it safe. I live next to the Surrey Hills so it's always a mix of road and gravel, descents are fast, climbs can be steep, ideally you want the widest range possible and the cadence in-between. The fact that a 2X system can't go as low as the 1X GRX is just stupid, because like I said the 2X could easily handle a 40Tooth. I didn't say 31-36, I said 34-36 because the Grx crankset doesn't go below 170. Which is quite different when climbing in the saddle. Yeah you could make it work with hacks and buying other brands like Rotor, but the point is you shouldn't have to Shimano should be able to understand that they should give people the gear range to handle any gradient while pedalling efficiently without massive cadence jumps.
@@davidarthur that's not old. It's way up to spec still. There is no need unless thy get a wireless one working exactly the same, and that says a whole lot.
shimano should either kill the grx or xtr line for 1x in comparison to srams mullet option, an eagle or any of the xplr rd's can be equipped on road/gravel/mtb And most of the axs line is interchangeable vs how shimano has handled things the new grx lever does look good tho, and kinda similar to red's pivot positioning but that grx crank is so year 2000, jesus h. christ And those saying shimano's braking power/modulation is better than srams, I have tried both and they both bite similarly and modulation is subjectively similar, dunno what you are smoking but I want some of those.
Not going 1x shows how far Shimano have slid from the needs of the marketplace. Can you imagine the meeting that took place at Shimano... 'should we go 1x, as that's what the market wants...? No, let's not do that. Let's pretend we are in 2002.
The chainring and crankset are so ugly, boring cassette and chains, too slow with wireless, still no MTB electronic shifting. Like a dinosaur company that can’t catch up with the times 🤷🏼
Shimano are going to have to play catch up with other companies if they carry on just 'upgrading' their groupsets. I do favour shimano stuff especially on my mtb's, but am going to start looking around at other companies . More options appearing outside of the big 3. About time they had competition to wake them up.
Shimano do nothing to excite me about bikes. No 1x set up option. Limited to a 11-36 cassette on a 2x. I thought it odd they didn't launch GRX Di2 when they announced the mechanical version and now after all this extra time this is what we are offered?
Lol the Shimano licking is real, SRAM is kicking Shimano's ass. Shomano doesn't care much about Gravel. Not even making high end groupsets for Gravel all heavy components and limiter Crank Lengths. Shimano just cares about Road
Perfect, a front derailure that actually works and the ease of getting into the proper gear with out clunking and banging up a large range cassette. Thank you Shimano
I just "downgrade" my old gravel from RED to GRX. What a big improvement this was. Brakes that works, and a front derailleur that can handle a 17 tooth gap almost effortless, compared to the RED crap that struggles with a 13 tooth gap and from time to time will just drop outwards because gods knows.
Ya when i look @ 2x setups. SRAM falls flat on its face on gear range alone. Meanwhile the GRX kicks it up a notch. The grx820-2 crank almost hits the low end of a grx610-2 crank and the high end of a 105 50T big ring. Its sitting right in the middle, giving better climbing than a stock 1x, yet only 2 teeth off a road chainring on the top end. This is the universal drivetrain IMO.
integrated battery is only a pro if you want to keep the size down, I would see a non replaceable battery as a con.
Shimano: reliable, buttery shifting, can make FD, battery life, cassettes with wide range and many 1 tooth jumps, chainring choices in 2t increments for your riding pleasure, wider tires OK, 24mm spindle for max BB compatibility, GRX crank is a metal chunk that will win a fight against the rock it hits
Dave: entertain me
The batteries aren't reliable and they are expensive. Shifting? Sram is better. Cassettes? Sram have a wider range. Chainrings? No direct mount options like Sram. Wider tyres? Front mech limits that. The only good point you make is the 24mm BB axle.
@@adamhindle9215 Batteries aren't reliable? Says you. I've had the same Ultegra Di2 setup for over half a decade and never had an issue. I average 10k miles a year btw. Also two SRAM batteries cost as much as one Di2. SRAM shifting is better?! Pretty general statement and I think you're the first person to ever say that. Wider range? Whatev. I'll gladly take the tighter one tooth jumps on an 11-34/36 over 10-44 XPLR. Those 32-38 and 38-44 tooth jumps are a little much. Plus when do you ever really need a 10 tooth cog when riding gravel? Maybe on paved descents? Sprinting aside, I rarely ever hit the 11 tooth on my road bike. And you basically have to be running a 38 tooth front ring to get any real benefit from the easier gears, which somewhat negates the 10 tooth. Direct mount? Ok, you got me there I guess. And about wider tires. Personally I like to race gravel so 40mm are generally good enough for me. 45 max depending on the course. And as such I'm focusing on a gravel race setup, not some mullet build type who 2x 12s GRX Di2 is obviously not aimed at.
With GRX 12s 1x there are no 1 tooth jumps at all. The 10t-12t jump in the 10-45 cassette sucks big time. What is more there are only cassettes for microspline hubs which you still don't find fitted on road/gravel wheels with few exceptions. Also practically no microspline conversion freehub bodies on the market.
Why can't they do a 11-44 (or similar) NON-MICROSPLINE cassette like SRAM? 400% range is all I need.
@@williwacker2774 Little off topic I'd say. Why would anyone want an 11-44 for 2x?!
@@justinjewell1043 Talking about 1x.
We went for a bikepacking adventure. Lots of climbing and offroad. Lots of people with modern bikes and a variety of shifting systems. A guy showed up with an old triple. He had the ‘do it all range’. No one else had. 😅
I've had GRX Di2 for three years now: 2x11, 11-40 cassette with 30/46 chainrings. It's been god damn perfect for every terrain I have ridden and 100% reliable. Very large range and small steps. Very, I mean very good lever ergonomics, easily best I've ever used. Probably gonna buy spare derailleurs when the prices drop, just in case I crash or damage them somehow. It is so damn good. No need for 1 extra gear, at all.
I don’t understand the desire for wireless. Unless you’re swapping frames regularly there’s literally zero benefit, you could even argue there are real drawbacks, reduced battery life, more batteries to charge, potentially slower shifts.
I'm happy with the current Ultegra and DA way, you want semiwireless. you got it. but let me wire it if I don't want to mess with coin cells. The 105 way is the wrong way.
There is one big benefit of wireless shifters for consumers: with the proliferation of bikes which use complete internal routing, cable shifting does not work so well with the tight bends the internal routing requires. For manufacturers, wireless greatly simplifies the build process, saving them lots of money (imagine building up hundreds of bikes). And I actually run mechanical GRX 12 speed...
@@barrowsworm1226 I’m not talking about mechanical vs electronic, I’m referring to wired vs semi-wired vs wireless…and oh yes, all the savings the consumer is getting from OE’s saving a few min on builds per bike, please show me where that’s actually happening 😂
@@barrowsworm1226 I have 12 speed di2 on my road bike, fully wired, I understand the problem with mechanical wires, but I'm talking about electrical cables. It can go almost in any tight space and works perfectly. I don't see the benefit for the customer. Once installed is going to stay there for years.
@@LainOTN isnt Di2 partially wireless? Or are older ones fully wired? I know the stuff im seeing has wireless connection between the derailleurs and shifters, with the shifters using coin cell batteries.
David, I would not say Shimano lacks ambition... I ride and race gravel ,and am on 1x 12 speed mechanical GRX, and it is fantastic. The 1x 12 speed Di2 is on the way, it will just be a little more of a wait. I find it funny how many people seem to think that SRAM offers more: Shimano shifting, both mechanical and electronic, is faster and smoother than SRAM (transmission is especially slow), and Shimano brakes are notably better in both power and modulation vs SRAM (with the possible exception of the new RED AXS, which apparently has improved brakes, I have not experienced that yet). Back to 1x: Shimano 1x can leverage the XTR cassettes at 10-45 and 10-52, giving a nice range of gearing options-yes, I am a little disappointed that we are going to have to wait bit longer for 1x Di2 12 speed, but as you have noted in your review, the 1x mechanical GRX 12 speed is superb.
The new red is more in line with Shimano brakes, I don't think it's better but it's definitely not worse. Trying to sell 2x is more sensible for a company, and for experience I got a lot of clients who changed their 1x to 2x because of the lack of range, or a second dedicated bike for road or mtb. I had a few going 46-30/11-40, and it had pretty good shifting for my surprise. For me, the sensible choice money wise, is going for Sram, because it's cheaper and good.
Sram Rival axs RD shifting is faster than shimano grx or ultegra di2. I own all 3. Shimano FD is better strait away. Can't feel a difference in braking - that's a draw.
Shimano 1x sucks you need a new special freehub that doesn't exist
@@christophertan3195 Exactly. Still no wheels or conversion freehub bodies on the market. Gear jumps in the fast gear realm on the 10-45 cassette are bad.
@@christophertan3195 Huh? Of course it exists, microspline is a well accepted standard. I have a microspline freehub for my wheels. This is a really good reason to always use DT hubs, besides all the other good reasons, easy, easy to change the free hub to whatever standard needed.
I think this groupset is just to pacify us.
GRX Di2 has been wanted for a while so they have launched it easily with current technology.
The real innovation will be be the 1X as they know demand is there.
I think it will be lauched with a brand new XT/XTR Mtb Di2 groupset.(With i am guessing some cross compatibility) which they will be finalising.
I am hoping for something special!
1x just doesnt have the range to cover me on the top end. Chain stress/wear also increases as the cog gets smaller @ the rear. I think this is why shimano isnt dropping to a 10 tooth cog yet.
Im always hoping for more range. I would like to see a 13 speed 11-38 rear cassette with a 48/30 crank. Maybe a 50/32 as well? Or even a 42/24 for the adventurous bike packers. The 42/24 would give mountainbike like climbing and gravel like top end.
Im all about having gears i never need, until i do. Although i hate 3x setups which is what im currently using on my mtb. I just ordered a BMC roadmachine, I'm still hoping the logistics work out (its a new model). It comes with 105 which is great for now, but i will want to change it over to the grx cranks and front derailleur im guessing for better climbing. At some point after setting it up with a 40mm gravel wheelset. Im hoping by then i can find di2 on sale as a second gen comes out?
Well, some manufacturers make the equipment to be used and abused in a real world and others constantly experiment with new things (sometimes they come up with new effective designs but usually end up with blingy, costly and superficial curiosities).
I buy the former type of stuff but truly applaud the latter! Someone has to pay for the progress - at the end of the day...
1x for gravel isn't as good as 2x. I don't see the attraction of 1x. I now have 2 bikes running 1x. SRAMs Explr 10-44 is clunky and draggy
Agree with you. 2 x is a better gravel groupo.
Efficiency for the win.
There are advantages to both approaches. 1x is simpler, more intuitive to use, has less risk of chain drop, and IF the gear range is set up correctly, it also offers less drivetrain friction, as one is more often in a larger chainring and larger cog (I get that if set up incorrectly, there can be additional friction from the chain angle, but this can be avoided with careful attention to one's gear ratios and chainline). 1x is also a bit lighter, and allows for better tire/mud clearance, without having to resort to a wider chainline which compromises Q-factor efficiency for most riders. 2x, on the other hand, can offer a bit wider range, and (sometimes, not always) slightly closer steps between gears. Either set up can work well, and it really is down to personal preference. At the top level of racing, both systems have had success, so clearly, either can work well.
Just Personal preference if you ask me.
1x is good for gravel IF you have power to run a big ass chain ring
It has crazy range, and the front mech just works. If the range is extra large and I can get smooth transitions, I should be excited.
It's funny that people pretends 1x is as continuous as a CVT transmission... but it isn't, obviously.
1x 12speed XPLR has a range of .9:1 - 4:1 (10-44 with 40)
1x 13speed XPLR has a range of .86:1 - 4:1 (10-46 with 40)
2x 12speed GRX has a range of .86:1 - 4.36:1 (11-36 with 48/31)
2x 12 speed 105 has a range of .94:1 - 4.54:1 (11-36 with 50/34) 1:1 - 4.9:1 (11-36 with 52/36) 1.05:1 - 4.9:1 (11-34 with 52/36)
SRAN offers the worst brake modulation in the industry. DOT fluid and a history of recalls.
What about sraM?
I was honestly expecting a GRX Di2 1x … so I still need to wait to update my bike !
I've got SRAM AXS. I test rode axs & Di2 with price not a concern and chose SRAM. It's just more Ergonomic and intuitive.
Me too love my Force ×2
@@Joiedevivredesilives my hands hurt reading this
Funny, I had the same feelings yesterday, as though Shimano didn't really want the lead in gravel. They certainly have the size and capability as a company to produce better gravel products than SRAM, but maybe it doesn't make financial sense or they have other reasons. I see in the comments below that many Shimano loyalists are offended by your honesty. I'm not here to Troll, and you have in the past been kinder and unbiased to vendors than I might have been; your comments are echoed by other reviewers. Not every release it going to be full of shock and awe, as say the first AXS 12spd, first D/A D12, or the RED release from days ago; this appears to be a modest improvement and there's nothing wrong or offensive in stating such. Keep the great content coming David! I for one am hoping that you're going to do a deep dive review on that Falcon behind you😊
I'm new, will it fit on Triban RC 520? 2x11 speed ?
Is it 2017 ?
The comments are great and really helpful. Thank you all so much.
Edited to add that I want this groupset. I want two gravel bikes. One at the road end of the spectrum and one at the mountain bike end of the spectrum. This groupset would be great for the bike on the road end of the spectrum. Definitely want a one by for the mountain bike end of the spectrum.
I disagree with your statement that an integrated battery is easier to deal with compared to SRAM's removable batteries. With an integrated battery, you will need to have a power source right next to where you keep your bike. While it may not be a problem for most, SRAMs removable batteries means you can charge them wherever. I personally have a battery charging station that contains two sram chargers, and cords so I can charge my front and rear lights and computer. If I want to charge my powermeter, I have to move my bike to a location where my charging cord can reach. Its a minor inconvenience, but still an inconvenience.
Nope, you can charge it with a power bank if you need to. Why make up "problems" which do not exist?
@@barrowsworm1226 I never said it was a problem. I said its an inconvenience. And your solution to that inconvenience is to purchase a power bank.
@@barrowsworm1226 I use a powerbank I tested using a phone and it also works.
@@flattrack33 buying a power bank to charge the batteries is no more of an inconvenience than setting up a "battery charging station" somewhere in your house! Stop making up things which really do not matter. Of course, many people will be storing their bike close enough to a power outlet anyway...
@@barrowsworm1226 I use a power brick on my Di2, works charms. Even used my phone on some occasion just to check if that was possible. and yes it is, you can charge Di2 with your phone.
SRAM Master Race checking in 😁
The consumer and reviewer complex's desire for some sort of super awesome upgrade every year makes me shake my head. Everything that was announced as part of this "upgrade" was predictable. Shimano's upgrades have always been conservative, I don't know why people would have expected anything else from them. The only thing that would have been nice would have been a rear derailleur that supports a bigger cassette, but 11 speed 2x with a 40 tooth rear cassette is possible now and works fairly well.
Grx stated out one step behind the current set with mashup of road and MTB parts. So this new group parts is as expected following that process. DA or XTR will get the new wireless and extra cog first. Then process down through the road and MTB sets. Then shimano will refresh grx for version 3 in 4 to 6 years time. So sram will be dominate in the gravel/ cx/ MTB space due to better gearing range, ease of setup/ use, and now extra bits like power meters with computers.
1x will likely be an off shoot of Next Gen XTR/XT which will be wireless shift pod, and battery on mech like SRAM. Only downside to this is battery life. Current 11 speed and fully wired 12 speed battery life is amazing, little bit more drain when you go to wireless shifters. New XT/XTR/GRX will require more attention & it isn't a reach thinking that trying to get that battery life extended is the big blocker.
Totally agree- this group set is very underwhelming
What a miss. I can't believe I wasted my time waiting for GRX Di2 thinking I was going to be able to get a Shimano electronic 1x group with a clutched rear derailleur. I mean, how many years behind SRAM do they really need to be? Excuse me, I'm off tho buy an Xplor drivetrain. So long Shitmano.
Everything points to a smaller BCD on the cranks so hopefully that translates to the 1x
Why don't they make a budget 1x e-shifting option with a battery strapped on the seat stay? It's simple to install and can feature removable battery, and I don't think a small external battery would look conspicuous on a gravel bike with bags and accessories.
I'm so fed up with the obsession of hiding things in the frame.
Shimano's new group set performed pretty well at Unbound.
Removable battery is a good idea. Many times it is inconvenient to take the bike to the power point
So no friction shifting. That's disappointing.
Elastic bands on a top of the range bike parts ffs. Love technology but bikes are way too complicated in my opinion. 😝
Influencers and the bike industry seem to be the main ones pushing a 1x set up. I'll admit its great on mountain bikes but really don't get the appeal on a gravel bike when so much of a ride is at higher speeds and on roads.
Honestly David - you know that 1x GRX Di2 is coming - Shimano have been very clear - the 1x is likely to have a lot in common with Di2 MTB XT that is also due…
I think these new GRX specific SPD pedals that no one talks about yet are looking sexy
Old XT Pedals with a Sticker and a higher price tag, yeah, very sexy.. that is even more lazy than the GRX Di2.
@@henninga.9996 are you saying that XT pedals are not sexy?
Marketing Gimmick
Well. Shimano don’t release 1x groupset because they don’t want to leak mtb di2 groupset. Now shimano need to worry about their opponent like sram , chinese brand…
Because cyclist with disposable income expect too much.
2:17 argument for 1x: simplicity. Ok, so why complicate it with batteries and a motor? Seems as unnecessary as routing a brake hose through a headset bearing.
Hahahaha ok boomer
2x front is great for gravel
Shimano needs rality check. It doesnt listen to their customers and its falling years behind with R&D. Truly sad situation. I could even see success for 825 in different price range but its way too expensive. This product will not sell... SRAM must be celebrating like crazy.
This release really needed an 11-40 cassette for better range. 160/165 cranks are absent too, unless you mix with 105 or Ultegra which gives you even less spinning gears for steep climbs. Shimano really dropped the ball with regards to the average consumer.
I do not get folks complaining about cranks and available gear ratios: everyones' wants/needs here are different. Shimano's offerings fit the vast majority of riders, and for those who need something different, there are plenty of compatible cranks and chainring options available-you can get a crank of any length you want, and rings compatible with Shimano 12 speed in just about any size you want-just be a little creative!
Not at all. Like I've said if you want very low gears for base training, and you happen to live somewhere very hilly. If you use a 165 crank a 34-36 isn't enough, unless your sub 80kg. Shimano don't do a mtb 12 speed cassette that runs from 11-40+
@@siy01 That is a very, very specific case scenario, which would apply to only a very few people. If one does have special needs like that, there are plenty of solutions available in the aftermarket. And, a 31-36 is not enough, which Shimano does offer? Or, you could go with an MTB 2x crank. I do not like that GRX 1x only offers a 42 T ring, max, but is it a problem, no, there are plenty of aftermarket rings available to suit other gearing needs.
@@barrowsworm1226 What do you think David Arthur's main issue with the groupset is?? It's that having a massive rear derailleur that only goes to 36 for gravel, is playing it safe.
I live next to the Surrey Hills so it's always a mix of road and gravel, descents are fast, climbs can be steep, ideally you want the widest range possible and the cadence in-between. The fact that a 2X system can't go as low as the 1X GRX is just stupid, because like I said the 2X could easily handle a 40Tooth.
I didn't say 31-36, I said 34-36 because the Grx crankset doesn't go below 170. Which is quite different when climbing in the saddle. Yeah you could make it work with hacks and buying other brands like Rotor, but the point is you shouldn't have to
Shimano should be able to understand that they should give people the gear range to handle any gradient while pedalling efficiently without massive cadence jumps.
Di2 and average consumer on the same topic. What?!
i think a new Dura-Ace system is a long way of. Thy just launched the new 12speed one. I think Shimano is far superior in smoothness and reliability
2021 was when it launched so a fair while ago now
@@davidarthur that's not old. It's way up to spec still. There is no need unless thy get a wireless one working exactly the same, and that says a whole lot.
shimano should either kill the grx or xtr line for 1x
in comparison to srams mullet option, an eagle or any of the xplr rd's can be equipped on road/gravel/mtb
And most of the axs line is interchangeable vs how shimano has handled things
the new grx lever does look good tho, and kinda similar to red's pivot positioning
but that grx crank is so year 2000, jesus h. christ
And those saying shimano's braking power/modulation is better than srams, I have tried both and they both bite similarly and modulation is subjectively similar, dunno what you are smoking but I want some of those.
Nothing can beat wire.
yes, wired Di2.
Not going 1x shows how far Shimano have slid from the needs of the marketplace. Can you imagine the meeting that took place at Shimano... 'should we go 1x, as that's what the market wants...? No, let's not do that. Let's pretend we are in 2002.
1x is coming, just be a little patient.
The chainring and crankset are so ugly, boring cassette and chains, too slow with wireless, still no MTB electronic shifting. Like a dinosaur company that can’t catch up with the times 🤷🏼
Pity GRX does not offer flat bar shifters.
Shimano are going to have to play catch up with other companies if they carry on just 'upgrading' their groupsets. I do favour shimano stuff especially on my mtb's, but am going to start looking around at other companies . More options appearing outside of the big 3. About time they had competition to wake them up.
no they won’t. they are not, and practically never have been, the tech leaders. they are focused on reliability.
Nice bike
I was a Fan Shimano but older I get, realise some companies doing things just better. Even Chinese ones
hogwash. sino companies don’t do anything but steal tech and over work their sunjects.
and at 20% of the cost lol
@@CreativeFishDesignsCharlotte youtube has already deleted my comment. alphabet has become completely taken over by chinese censorship
THE Asian Market Is Giving Far Better options at 400 us and up This Product is quite late and pointless
@@CreativeFishDesignsCharlotte Shimano is Japanese. that is Asia too.
Shimano do nothing to excite me about bikes. No 1x set up option. Limited to a 11-36 cassette on a 2x. I thought it odd they didn't launch GRX Di2 when they announced the mechanical version and now after all this extra time this is what we are offered?
Lol the Shimano licking is real, SRAM is kicking Shimano's ass. Shomano doesn't care much about Gravel. Not even making high end groupsets for Gravel all heavy components and limiter Crank Lengths. Shimano just cares about Road
Im waiting for totally wireless ultegra