Yes! And it definitely is very meaningful/symbolic as well. Because of the whole "us vs. them" issue. And the whole "you're one of the good ones" and "you're not like them"-- Muslims can relate to what Nick felt when he heard that. When he says, "Oh, there is a THEM now??", he is essentially frustrated and angered by the fact that Judy is alienating pretty much all predators except for him because she has seen that he is a good guy. And alienation is real and truly horrific, and he could feel the harm that it accompanies. Also, someone below in the comments (I do not remember if it was their own comment or a reply they made to someone else's) stated that this sort of statement "is a jab at the group, not a compliment to the person". And I think that is exactly why "backhanded compliments" are really not compliments at all.
@@noorykorky5056 Thank you so much for this. When he said that line I really didn't understand what he meant and I was really curious to know what he meant. I mean.. it was a complement she gave him, why is he so mad? Now I get it. Thank you!
@@loongal Yeah it is pretty much like when in a romantic teenage lame drama the dude is like "you are different from all the other girls" and the film portrays it the same way too Is like insulting your community and basically saying "you are not valid because of who you are inherently, you are valid because of this and that" basically "a part of you is wrong, but like, you overcame that part of you that is wrong" saying that in reality there is something that is not right with you, but that you have just gotten over it and "fixed yourself", but if you hadn't done it you would be like "them" you would be wrong, you would not be valid, just like the rest of "them" that have something inherently bad in "them"
@@loongal You're most welcome! ☺😊 I am glad I could help! It's mostly the fact that a lot of minority groups/communities have heard these backhanded "compliments" for so long that we are just kind of triggered by them quickly like he was. While it definitely seems like a compliment, the implications of it demonstrate the fact that it actually is an insult. But I'm glad I could be of service.😌 Sometimes it's hard to tell with these things, whether you are part of a minority group or not.
I think part of the reason why Judy feels that she cannot be biased is the fact that she actively fights against a bias herself as to what bunnies are capable of. It is particularly easy to feel that as a victim you are incapable of also being a perpetrator.
It encapsulates why there are discussions about white woman feminism. White women can fight sexism as victims of it, but women of color are dealing with sexism and racism and in unique combinations, which white women are not immune from participating in and exacerbating just because they experience a little piece of that all.
That's also an issue that many PoC have is that they think that "because I'm a minority in a white world, I can't be biased" The best example is when black people say "black people can't be racist", which Aba and Preach have already done videos on
I just noticed the reaction of the predator reporters in the news conference scene. All of them immediately go defensive, ears back, and nervously looking around them. Subtle, but effective to show the instant ripple effect of her statement.
I can relate to this. There was this one time I was told to go back to Africa (I also look Somali, so that could tie into it, but still) but I'm 3rd generation Jamaican like??? Where .... when... why... in what world... who told you to... did you think this was okay???
@Milk & Cookies Even if they were the ones "starting" it, virus mutations happen, It's only natural for disseses to hit populations, and now that we are all so connected it's hard to contain people in a place. I mean, you don't blame the guy that got sick and got you sick, right?
What I noticed was that Nick understood the other animal.."culture" if you will. When they went to the "nudist" she was all shocked by it but Nick just understood that's their thing. At the DMV he understood the sloth and didn't rush him, Judy on the other hand tried to imply they're in a really big hurry, they need to get our fast, and rushed the joke when he was telling it to the other sloth, and Nick just stood there not bothered. So many other scenes where Nick understood the different animals and respected them, and Judy just didn't understand and thought they were being an inconvenience. I'm not sure if that makes sense ...but that's what I saw.
I think you make a compelling point. If we place these observations in the prism of the racism analogy, it goes to show that Nick being part of a discriminated minority has a better understanding of differences and of the fact that they should be respected than Judy does
Nick wasn't being patient because he understood the animal culture & being nice about it. He told the joke to take advantage of the slow speaking sloths to cause delays in Judy's investigation. He was self serving in that scene.
One should stop to consider something else though. Forcing imagery and shoehorning information can be a bias in itself. Judy is a bunny. Bunnies move fast. Going slow is agonizing. Sometimes the curtains are blue not because they represent depression, sometimes they're blue because blue is nice.
@@jazzyangelflower3344 well, sure. But, you're not going to be able to take a vocally active racist and completely remove their racial bias overnight. That takes time and often isn't really possible to completely rid it. But, this was a Disney movie, so of course it solved itself in the blink of an eye. That's what Disney does, condensing complicated problems and their solutions down so far that it seems like magic, without really going into detail on how that problem really should be solved.
@@amokriinprolgiid3409 Exactly, change isn't instantaneous, especially something that was rooted in your entire life. You have to recognise what needs to be changed and make an constant effort to change, which Judy's parents are currently doing and since it's rewarding them (gaining a business partner), they will likely keep making that effort.
i have always been so struck by the moment where Judy says "youre not like them!" and he replies, "oh, there's a *them* now?" thats very heavy and real and completely encapsulates the whole movie's thesis.
That scene always hits me so hard and gets me tearing up. I've been on both sides of very similar altercations in my life and this one never ceases to remind me that good intentions don't stop you from hurting people, trying to say the right thing doesn't replace ignorance, and you have too trying to learn and understand and listen to what other people are trying to tell you. It's a good reminder that you can be a good person, and you can be a real jerk, both at the same time and in the same breath
One thing not mentioned! The great thing about this movie is that there's more than one implicit bias playing throughout the film. Nick represents racism (being viewed as a predator, untrusted on sight), which is easy to see, and Judy represents sexism (breaking into a big-animal profession, being called cute), which can be a little more difficult to recognize. But you can really see it when Nick says there, "You bunnies, always so emotional." It may be that he's showing a bit of his own bias there, but I think personally that he does recognize the bias of the statement and is using it to tease her, possibly as a last, mocking little gentle jab because she hurt him with the same kind of thing.
True!! the message of this movie is intersectional. The anti-racism paradigm is what this video was mostly about, but the anti-sexism paradigm is very intricate and smartly represented as well. And crossing the two, we get the message that your being part of a discriminated community yourself does not mean you don't also have biases. I also think he was teasing her with the whole "you bunnies, always so emotional" thing, kind of like getting back at her in a non-harmful way to show that he truly will not be holding any grudge against her and that he truly accepted the apology. this movie is gold i swear
@@FandomObsessedArtist Yes! It's not only a poc thing, though. Gay people can call each other f** and other things, and women can call each other sl** and such as well. Affectionately using a slur within a group is often acceptable when someone outside the group using it is not.
@James Foreman I actually like the term "majority privilege" better. I was in a car accident which left me disabled, removing me from my ableist privilege. I didn't notice how much I benefited from just by being independent, more than I'd like to get into now; but just the way buildings and cities are constructed are aimed towards the majority ableist citizens, even though the disabled minority is the largest minority in America. Since I wasn't born this way, I was able to see things from both perspectives and experience life both ways. It made it easier to identify problematic thought processes others had and don't realize. Even now, I know that I still have privileges. I was privileged to go to university and be in honors college, I was privileged to have both parents married and in my life (until the car accident when my dad unfortunately passed away), I was privileged to live in a house that my family owned, etc. Some privileges aren't always majority, However. Take finances, for example. Our top 1% make more than the lower classes combined (I believe that's the statistic), so they're actually minority privileged in that sense. I do think that privilege in general is a complex topic that can make people uncomfortable, but I'm glad I saw your comment.
Sometimes people say things like “why are we still talking about that? I apologised.” Or “But I apologised for that!” As if that automatically fixed everything and removed you from any guilt. That’s not how apologies work or what they are for.
@@calamity2383 If you want them to make up for it, tell them how. If they don't, then that's on them. If you just want to berate them forever, that's on you.
Fun fact: When investigating Nick Wilde for the first time when he walks into the Ice Cream Shop, she jaywalks across the street. This is not something she normally does. When giving out tickets, she never jaywalks, as she has a deep respect for the law, but this one time seems to be an exception.
@@joshcoy6748 A reference to how it's okay for her to skirt the law because she's a bunny who's typically the victim. Whereas the fox was definitely looking shifty so if anything, most people would agree that fox was up to no good and put more scrutiny on him. Most would forget about chastising the bunny at all.
What is interesting about the scene where she first sees Nick is that she completely misses/ignores that the truck almost hit a pedestrian while coming out of the alley. The driver is the main chemical maker/hitman Doug. Could have ended the whole thing before it spiraled out of control if she had looked past her biases.
It could totally be me, but I thought I saw him in the reporter crowd as well. It could've been a different sheep, but I have a feeling that he could've been planted.
Yeah and the fact that he was a sheep and was being so mean to someone he almost ran over (a fox). They showed earlier on that prey can be bad people too and also if she had paid just as much attention to the sheep that she did Nick, she could have stopped all the bad that's about to happen. Typical Pixar, dropping little hints.😅😅
@@Frostfern94 yeah when your a child you don’t take a second thought as too what your doing like when your an adult but that scene makes me smile when he apologized for the way he acted in his youth to Judy
@Costslwaves360 "Hey, Judy. I'd just like to say, I'm sorry for the way I behaved in my youth. I-I-I had a lot of self-doubt and it manifested itself in the form of unchecked rage and aggression. ..." Look at the vocabulary he uses there, compared to the way he speaks otherwise. It was therapy. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I just realized that that when the pig told the cheetah to go back to the forest, it had the same energy as telling someone from Asia to go back to China,Japan or India. Damn, dudes, thanks for the likes, I didn't expect this to blow up.
Zootopia was definitely inspired by fables. Fables were a way to teach human life lessons through stories with animal characters. Often, people were replaced by animals with a certain character. The reason fables were created, was because the authors didn't want to *start beef* with anyone they know and the danger of execution (we're still talking about ancient times here) because of offense taken from higher ranked citizens of a town or country (patricians, kings etc.) so they used animals instead.
Actually, this film also is incredibly animal. Replace the animals with humans, and the plot won’t survive. The variety of the story with the animals is essential, but it’s still relatable. Win win
My favorite tiny detail in Zootopia: when an animal “goes savage”, their eyes change. At the end, when Nick fakes going savage, his eyes remain the same!
That is actually what I used to determine Nick was faking it when I watched the movie I noticed how their eyes will either turn to silts or glow but Nick's didn't do either so I thought "Nah he is faking it" which I turned out to be right :)
Not only does Nick call Judy out on her statements, he also does it in such a calm and reasonable way. Not everyone is so able to deal with being accused of being subhuman so well, especially when you get it ALL the time!
The tragedy is he's probably used to forcing down any signs of being angry or overly emotional, because if he showed that it would come off as aggressive or intimidating. Just like what happened in the press conference where everyone assumed she was being threatened because he looked upset for completely reasonable reasons.
He probably has to stay calm. After all, he just looked upset and the immediate assumption was that he did something to her. If he were more aggressive it would just "prove" their biases.
@@bumbabees near identical to biases against black and brown people, especially black people, who have to act calmly whenever upset or theyll be labeled as aggressive
I loved that, during the big reveal, it's the villain is this meek little sheep. You as the viewer are implicitly put in this 3rd person perspective, you're above the petty biases of these dumb animals. And then, in a brilliant moment, the frame of this twist says that YOU are just as susceptible. Teaches you that you need to work on yourself, no matter who you are.
I really appreciate that they show Nick in this film as the stereotypical fox to begin with. It shows that “yes maybe you met a minority who fits the negative stereotype but that doesn’t mean that’s evidence that it was alright for you to have that assumption about them in the first place” Sometimes media focuses too much on “this person breaks the mold of their stereotype” which is Problematic because it’s still suggest the stereotype is true, it’s just this one person is an exception. Nick also shows that people can act like stereotypes due to feeling like they have no other choice, which provides people with “evidence” to their discrimination and thus more stereotypes and then the cycle continues.
Also, plenty of ethnicities act like that stereotype; yet they are excused due to their skin color. When someone who's not a minority does something criminal, he or she "made a mistake". When a minority does it, he or she "is a criminal". There is a distinct difference between those two labels.
@@misspriss2482 Exactly, I know plenty of people who are assholes but them being assholes has nothing to do with their race, gender or sexuality. Shitty human beings are shitty human beings. If you only look for patterns in minority groups then you’ll only find patterns in minority groups, in reality there’s negative traits in all people that’s just how it is.
I also feel like the "you're not like them" trope is much more damaging than just the separation of the "minority model predator" versus the "majority problematic predator." Not only does it separate a whole based off of its "good" and "bad" parts, but the existence of this "model predator" also reinforces the concept that civility and success can be attained (however easily or difficultly) and that those that do not end up becoming the model predator are really choosing to conduct themselves in the ways that they do, even if society, economic imbalances, and displacements of power are really what's to blame. Glorifying the individual for "defying the status quo" further reinforces bias and essentially blames the other party for their misfortunes, which I believe to be ultimately much more cruel.
theres also the fact that stereotypes come from somewhere, so at least a few people are bound to fit them. Theres also the idea that some stereotypes apply to most people in general. In the end, people shouldnt expect people to be stereotypes, cause they might or might not fit them
"Because a true apology is really just about acknowledging and taking accountability for one's mistake." This changed my whole point of view and its amazing.💖
I taught my kids that an apology is a 3 point contract - I know I did something wrong, I understand why it was wrong, and now I know that I will try my best to not do it again. Saying sorry is just a making a noise if it is not underpinned by those principals.
I also just learned from this that apologizing isn't just saying "sorry", but actually... saying the things she said and what they said. I have a hard time understanding social cues, so this actually helped teach me something. Probably still gonna use "sorry" most of the time though, since it's faster and I can't think fast enough of another apology when its needed... :/
What are we meant to think Judy should apologise for? She was brought up to fear foxes (natural: foxes predate rabbits) but when she first meets Nick she's already seen him get bullied by an elephant and stand up to that bully, so even that early she knows that foxes aren't all bad. She previously didn't know what made predators savage, and, [15:15] having learnt this, she takes her first opportunity to tell Nick what she'd learnt.
@@rosiefay7283 Judy needs to apologize because things are rarely as simple as all good or all bad. Yes, Judy was friends with Nick and doesn't see him or even foxes in general as bad, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't have things that she needs to work on. When trying to reason what would make the animals go savage, she turned to her implicit bias that their savageness is a result of an innate proneness to violence that, even without realizing it, she believes is characteristic of predators. She subconsciously discounts the notion that such a phenomenon could also occur in prey animals. And this assumption clearly hurts Nick; with Nick having had previous experiences with other animals ostracizing him under the similar belief that him being a fox innately makes him a danger. Even if we assume that Judy's assumption is completely harmless, which it isn't, it is still undeniable that Nick was hurt by her comment and that means that she needs to apologize in order to mend that relationship. Just because she goes to him first, doesn't mean that there aren't wounds that need healing.
A friend told me this once: “We may not consider ourselves to be racist or prejudice against people, but we are. Everyone has a slight prejudice against someone, you just don’t realize it.” It really made me think and consider what he said, and I completely understand what he meant.
Exactly! Whenever I realize I was prejudice against someone, I feel so bad and guilty that I'm tempted to apologize to said person. Even if they didn't know or it was years ago
Mistrust and generalization was a survival tactic...don't trust the cheeta or lion just because he is rolling around on his back in the sun...when he's hungry you will be on the menu. HOWEVER we also have a thinking and reaoning mind. We can separate someone's actions from their physical characteristics. A person who behaves badly is someone who behaves badly whatever he or she, may look like, or love, or worship. If we remember that we can change the world, I think.
“Gideon was a jerk who just happened to be a fox” I really like that quote actually,, How she’s aware that being a certain species doesn’t define really anything else about you. She’s aware that it’s your personal thoughts that cause you to be a certain way, and she knows that those personal thoughts aren’t automatically in EVERY fox’s biology, but the thoughts are rather developed over time by what you as an individual decide to listen to and act out.
@@lemonqvartz well not really, in that scene, she even only took the spray to get her dad to calm down, but you can see she was genuinely not being biased
in some cases of implicit bias someones actions dont necessarily reflect who they are as a person, but some people just regurgitate what theyve been taught or what they grew up around without questioning if its right or wrong/forming their own opinions
@@2ndpartycrasher954 When she took it from her father, you're correct, she wasn't being biased, however, when she took it from her apartment after making the decision to leave it behind, she most certainly was.
Didn't even touch on the fact that the real villain the whole time was the most innocent seeming animal of them all. No matter how "good" or "nonviolent" they seem to be, anyone has the capability of being a terrible person.
Her reasoning was based on her personal experiences but her nefarious actions played on the implicit bias of her society. I would be interested in an entire video in the villain dynamic in this movie. Her "nemesis" is her direct "superior" in every way. She's fascinating.
Because it'd mean that BurnLootMurder could also have some terrible people. And frankly, the presenters seem way too PC to even acknowledge that it could be possible.
“Go back to the forest, predator” “I’m from the savannah” This scene reminds me of the amount of times I’ve been told “go back to China” or other racist names/phrases. I’m not even Chinese, but it doesn’t even matter because it is no excuse to be racist, it’s still sinophobic whether i’m Chinese or not because they had the intention and it is disgusting.
@@classicambo9781 people see Australia as so much better than America but it’s barely better; we just have better gun control and we handled the pandemic better. The racism here is so bad, a black person was recently shot to death in Brisbane by the police - but don’t apologise because it’s not your fault unless you’ve done it yourself
I’m Korean, but I was born and raised in America. It really hurts when people say “Ching Chong” or “Go back to China”. I also have Russian friends and German friends, and everyone keeps referring to them as communists and nazis.
Not that for immigrants it isn't their country, bc of course it is, but when people are trying to insult me by saying this, they are insinuating I'm not a citizen even though Puerto Ricans are citizens of the US.
I DO find it ironic that Judy was a victim of bias, herself, when she was a child....she wanted to break the norm and be a police officer, because she believed the mantra that "anyone can be anything." Her parents scoffed at this notion and said "no, you just need to be a bunny. Be a carrot farmer. Settle for what is safe and comfortable. And even when she gets to the police academy, the polar bear instructor ALSO says ""Just QUIT....you are not worthy of this. Give up." but she is determined to fulfill her childhood dream of being a police officer, and eventually, through hard work and perseverance, she achieves this dream. She breaks the bias, so to speak. But then, Judy meets Nick, and because of her upbringing and life experiences, she INSTANTLY does not trust Nick because he is a fox, and she has been raised to believe that foxes are untrustworthy and malicious and bad. And she even eventually starts to trust Nick and they become friends....and she's even willing to consider Nick as her new partner. But then, when she falls back into the implicit bias, Nick calls her out on this....and I respect Judy because not only is she willing to consider that her personal beliefs are wrong (i.e. when she thought it was the wolves who were Night Howlers and it turned out to be toxic flowers making the animals go savage) she is willing to sincerely apologize to Nick and admit that she was wrong. She was willing to take responsibility for her mistakes and make them right.
@@soirema Thank you. :) And thank you again, for commenting....I was looking for this comment the other day to incorporate into my film critique of this movie and I couldn't find it. Responding to your comment helped me find it and now, my article will be stronger.
@@wubbsy when judy meets nick, he's just walking to the ice cream shop. what gets judy's attention is nick almost getting ran over by a truck, which isn't even nick's fault, as the truck seems to be coming out of a back alley (which judy doesn't notice). the one driving the truck is actually one of the rams involved in bellwether's scheme, and he was actually acting more suspicious than nick in that moment.
I think it shows that members of minority groups also have implicit bias, it’s not just majority groups. Just because you experience discrimination yourself doesn’t mean you aren’t discriminating against others in a way you don’t realize.
It's like saying "Wow, you're strong for a woman" or "You came from this poor part of town and you're in college. Good for you!" It's a backhanded compliment implying that what you are doing is the exception to the rule of your skin color, class, and so on.
@@ww.DuzaFizz yeah, though from what I’ve seen people have stronger stereotypes to autism and other mental irregularities than is realistic. I mean, to an extent their right(sometimes) but the extreme is what gets talked about and therefore expected.
Yeah... I get that as a trans woman frequently. "oh, you're trans? Wow, I couldn't even tell!" What makes it worse is that I can't shake off that there's an unspoken end to the sentence they're not saying (I couldn't even tell... That you're not a real woman)
Schools are not supossed to teach you this... then in fact.. will create a bias in everyone... if a school taught a certain topic about a certain race it will create a bias on the people that are being taught such thing
Honestly I think that press conference is also very telling of how media plays a part in bias. I mean aside from the photo's in the press conference switching to muzzled predators to really emphasise the points Judy is making through her own implicit bias, it also falls straight into just wild inaccurate claims: "Officer Hopps, were you just threatened by that predator?" "No, he's my friend." "We can't even trust our own friends?!" Like yes, Judy's implicit bias came through... and instead of calling her out on it, instead of letting the predator species among the crowd speak up, the prey species just run with the facts solely to place fear in their audience, further dividing what was already a fractured group throughout the plot of the movie. Kinda warning us that as we unlearn our biases we also have to really try and find the actual truth in the media, because media so often twists things to fit their own bias.
and they keep trying to keep an old idea alive even though it doesn't make sense. the whole "preditors were consumed with blood lust" and thus their just going "savage" because of it. and no one really argues that it doesn't make sense cause it's something that common old fact, so no one would bother to fact check it.
As a woman with an obvious disability (I use a power wheelchair), I have also gotten the "you are so articulate" "compliment" so many times, or people are surprised that I have 2 Masters degrees. It was worse when I was in middle and high school when I was literally treated like a young child because people just assumed I had an intellectual disability, so I think it's slowly getting better. However, I guess my only criticism is that many times when diversity and especially bias are discussed, disability seems to be the last group included in the discussion if at all. That being said, as also a white person raised in a progressive household, I'm sure that I've been guilty of similar microaggressions, and my friends probably did what I did and let it slide because everyone hates conflict and confrontation.
Having two masters degree in general is a surprising thing that you should be proud of. By your comment, it almost sounds as if people should not react to someone having two masters degree as something impressive. Though, I guess it all depends on the level of "impressed" they are and how much of a "and you did all that in a wheelchair too!" they add
@@androkguz Thanks, that's a good point. It does depend on the tone, although I could also be reading too much into the tone, misinterpreting being impressed as surprised.
I’ve also been subject to something similar myself, though not for a disability. Let’s just say that where I’m from, I’m from a non-visible minority that’s disliked heavily throughout the country. To the point that some people, to my face, were complaining about said group KNOWING I was part of that group and went “Don’t worry, you’re one of the good ones.”, and kept going. That. That comment was more insulting than all the “backwards, dumb, racist, and uneducated” thrown my group’s way.
"If we're going to give each other a seat at the table, we first have to recognize that there are people who aren't at the table, and stop buying into the myth that they're happy to not be at the table." I let out an audible woooah to that one. Very well said.
There's a line from Fine Print by The Stupendium that I think pairs nicely with that comment. "And you'll be grateful for seats at the table. though it dips at one end- and the bench is unstable." Bc although we must make sure everyone has a seat at the table, we also have to recognise whether or not everyone has equitable seats at the table.
"If we're going to give each other a seat at the table we first have to recognize that there are people who aren't at the table and stop buying into the myth that they're happy to not be at the table" Nailed it.
But who is supposedly happy to not be at the table? How can that be? I don't believe it; who doesn't want to be at the table? Doesn't everyone want to be at the "table"? What even is "table"? I assume it refers to ultimate privilege and happiness? For Americans -- the American Dream?
I think it's meant to imply a negotiation table rather than a dinner table -- undertaking things together so everyone's needs are met rather than some kind of unfocused kumbayah moment.
But at the same time, we also have to recognize that there are people who absolutely don't belong at the table and should be refused a seat there too (The Tolerance Paradox).
What makes a story about implicit bias told with animals so great is that it can be about ANY implicit bias: Bias because of race, sex, disability, sexual/romantic orientation, occupation, age, etc.
For some reason, the hardest thing to get into people's heads, is that how you treat someone can and will affect how they act. For example, the way the 'prey' muzzle up Nick and don't realise nor care that they just helped put the idea in Nick's head that, the only way people will ever see him as, is manipulative, cunning and sly, just bcuz he was born a fox. So he played up to that, why bother trying to change how people view you when you can just play the part. This then 'confirmed' what the other scouts was in the right, bcuz obviously they were correct in their prejudice but were really what caused it in the first place. That's a hard message for people to fully realise bcuz many don't like to admit they are the one's at fault...
There is a play called andorra that reminded me of this implicit bias. It is about a boy who everyone thinks is a Jew during the Second World War and they all keep on treating him that way with false friendliness and their own projected flaws at them, which were actually their very own flaws and not giving him fair chances based on that. The boy himself internalises these prejudices and starts acting according to these as well and thinks the reason nobody likes is because he is a Jew, etc.. Now there comes the twist: he wasn’t actually one. It was a lie his father made up, to hide the fact that he had an affair with a woman outside of town, while also making himself look like a hero for taking in a jewish boy. The mother even comes to visit to the town trying to explain the whole situation along with the father to him, but before she can explain it she gets killed by the locals and everyone shifts the blame on the boy again. And the boy doesn’t fight it anymore at that point, and even as his father and adoptive mother desperately try to explain it to him and everyone else. They just don’t want to believe it and think it’s really just a dishonest way of protecting the boy from the approaching gestappo and spoiler alert: the boy gets shot by them, his father hangs himself in the aftermath, his half sister loses her mind about it and his adoptive mother... I honestly forgot what her fate was again, but it wasn’t a good one as well there and the rest of the town was none the wiser about anything at all about what just happened there and keeps on living their own lives.
When Judy apologises to Nick, she stands in the dark of the tunnel while he stands in the light. And after she is forgiven, she walks out into the light with him. I never noticed that until this video and I think it's excellent symbolic lighting choice.
When the scene starts Nick enters a dark place and she starts her apology in the light. The most emotional and sincere portion of her apology occurs as she steps deeper into the dark and as he listens to it he starts in the dark with her and approaches the light. When he has decided to accecpt her apology and turns to teasing her he steps/has stepped into the full light and when they reach a moment of connection and accecption of what has occured they both in the light together. It's a really well played scene PLUS THEY GO UNDER A BRIDGE and ya know that's a whole great metaphor played out as well. As an animator yes, lighting is SO deeply thought out in animation because it creates moods. It's thought out in live action films as well. There's whole theories and classes on film development that covers it. Often times it's even discussed during the concept art and storyboarding stages because it's so key to setting up and supporting the execution of a scene. All that to say awesome catch OP and I also loved the symbolism haha!!
Cookout sure. I was thinking 'wedding'. These are the people you want around wishing you well at that kind of event, not that aunt you "have" to invite because she's going to call your family and complain how "she wasn't even thought of" at SOMEONE ELSE'S Day.
As a 25 year old black man and my parents having to sit me down at 15 and explain that people will look at you differently when Trayvon Martin was killed I want to thank you guys.
What's scary about this movie and their take on it is that it made me realize that I actually do have implicit bias against African American males, more specifically when they raise their voices. I had a pretty scary experience during a paintball game one day due to a big misunderstanding, and two African American males were the perpetrators. They were permanently banned from the field, but I have more recently begun to realize that even though it happened long ago, it still affects me even today. Just recently two African American males working for DoorDash came in to the chinese restaurant I had placed a takeout order from, and when they started getting frustrated and muttering to themselves, I could feel my heart start to race, even though I wasn't in any danger at all!
It's as they said, biases are fed to you, layer by layer by layer, and in order to UNDO that, you can't just coast through your life thinking you've reached enlightenment because of x reason, you have to consciously work at it.
My biggest fear is that one day, I may unintentionally say something extremely harmful to someone, and I'll either lose their trust, or they'll end up getting mad enough to put me in a dangerous scenario.
@@justalpha9138 hey heads up that no one owes you a course on how to be anti-racist, and unloading like this under a guy's comment who did not ask for questions is asking for some pretty big emotional work from someone who did not offer it. I'd suggest looking up TH-cam videos on How To Be Anti-Racist, they'll explain better than I can
The “congratulations you’re not committing hate crimes” really reminds me of how my mom has been since I came out as a lesbian. I know they’re very different but like if there’s a show and someone disowns their child or kicks them out of the house for not being straight my mom smiles and literally goes “see look I’m a cool mom!” And like i know she means well but the bar is so incredible low that her not disowning me means she’s like this all loving thing and it’s frustrating
I GET THIS. My mom has come a long way since I came out as trans 14 almost 15 years ago. But she still has a long way to go and she sometimes acts like she's the be all end all of an accepting parent because she isn't disowning me or denying me of my identity, only showing disappointment when it comes to it (like saying things like "Well it's what YOU want" when I told her I finally got to start T and then immediately changing the subject because she didn't want to talk about it when I was extremely excited to share this information with her). It's sad though because we live in a world where I have to also downplay how much that hurts because "at least I don't have it as bad as some people" or else people throw that at me any way.
@@DannyThaTranny I hate that kinda response of "well, at least you're not doing as bad as X person". It negates your feelings and kinda makes you feel like shit, and even guilty because you're complaining about your pain (something like a survivor's guilt, or a "I have it better" guilt) and also, hey, how bout we recognize that we both have it bad and we're both aching and both situations should improve instead of lowering the bar?
@@nahuelma97 exactly! It seriously just makes it hurt even worse knowing that with most people, if I talk about the fact that it hurts me when my mom blatantly tries to avoid the subject of anything to do with my transition someone literally is 90% of the time going to say "at least she didn't kick you out/disown you when she found out back then".
I love Judy's growth, she started out with the "I don't see color" mindset until she enters Zootopia where bunnies aren't the majority and it exposed how very small minded she was until she was properly educated by a friend outside of her race. Something I wish I could see more often in real life.
The bit about Nick adhering to the stereotypes because "people decided they were true so I may as well follow" made me think about a thought I'd had with Harry Potter. In the books, it showed Fred and George literally boo at every child sorted into Slytherin. These 11 year olds come to school for the first time, excited to learn magic, and from the moment they are sorted, the other 3/4 of their peers decide they are dark or evil just because of their sorting or family name. Then people wonder why so many Slytherins did turn to "the dark side".
Right?? Harry essentially begged the hat not to put him in Slythern because he met Malfoy, a total prick, who wanted to be in Slythern, and was told the house was full of people just like him.
The whole concept of the Houses makes no sense to me. You're being evaluated and judged when you're 11 years old (who at that age has such an emotionally stable mind or traits that are so defined?) Then you are grouped together for the rest of your school years with people who are just like you. Why? Wouldn't it make far more sense to group the kids together depending on their strengths and weaknesses? For example, the slackers and easy-going types with the ambitious and hard-working kids - so that one can help the other with managing their workload and then the others can help show them that work is not everything or help them in other ways in which each group struggles. If I had to include the houses at all, I would not make the children's placement permanent, but they would change houses yearly (maybe?) depending on what they need to learn the most at that time.
I just love to see Alan emotional!! It really is endearing, agree with Jon!! As someone who was repeatedly told not to cry as a child, I just find it refreshing to see someone that is not afraid to be vulnerable. Thanks guys!!!! 🤗
So do I. If I have sons when I have kids I want them to know that it’s OK for them to cry if they need to and express there emotions. I have very little patience for macho culture.
One of the things I feel a lot of people miss is that Judy is subjected to implicit and explicit bias as well. She's assumed to be to small and weak to accomplish anything, because she's a bunny, and all bunny's do is work on their farms and have lots of kids. I mean come on, there's the obvious coding of "cute" as some form of slur or derogatory way to refer to rabbits. Because of the way she is used to being stereotyped and knows how that feels, she attempts to avoid saying the explicit things against other species, and considers herself a very accepting rabbit who appreciates the diversity of Zootopia. If you were trying to draw real world parallels to this, Judy is also apart of a racial minority, however, *this does not mean she is immune to implicit bias against others.* Just something I don't see people talking about much, thought I'd add it.
@@CupOfTaeWithAKookie Kinda! The metaphors of Zootopia are very muddled and not perfectly executed, so I was thinking more in line of it being somewhat equivalent to Judy being a POC, but still capable of being tacitly racist towards other minorities. Again, it's kinda hard to pin down the intent though, so it's all very open to interpretation.
@@ithinkflutterawesome6511 That's true, I agree it can be interpreted in many different ways, which is honestly the beauty of it. But personally I thought of white feminism cuz of the connotations that come with being a bunny or a herbivore in their world. They're seen as cute, small, fragile, and incapable of certain jobs like doing a dangerous case in the police force. It reminds me a lot of sexism and how women couldn't work a lot of jobs before. But in the past and even now, a lot of feminists overlooked people of color. America gave rights to white women before they gave rights to black women, and a good amount of white feminists still held prejudice towards people of color. So Judy despite being a minority who is often looked down on still holding some internalized prejudice towards Nick as a fox, reminded me of that.
I think its more that judys thing is that she's facing like sexism and not racism, because like thars like the one that makes the most sense for her while storyline and how she's treated i feel like, i dont really feel like it makes sense for how she's treated being because she's a poc, and it still is about the same thing though that just because like you face predjudice doesn't mean you can't be predjudiced
The best thing about the first scene that a lot of people overlook is that Nick and his partner (when he's conning the ice cream parlor) are completely different species and anyone who cared enough to learn about other "cultures" would have seen through them instantly.
YUUUUUUP. I studied fennec foxes briefly as a kid, and I enjoy learning about animals in general, so I was confused when I first saw the ice cream parlor scene. I kinda shrugged it off as “oh, he’s probably adopted”, but oh boy, lemme tell ya, I felt pretty vindicated as soon as Hopps started putting the pieces together.
You could argue that they thought Nick was a stepfather / adoptive father or perhaps had fennec fox wife so kiddo is a hybrid, but honestly my guess would be that the elephants just didn't care. Judy may have thought that, though.
Yeah, but like another commenter said, blended families can happen. Nick could've been an adoptive father. Zootopia had enough of a task breaking down racism and biases into chunks small enough for kids to understand. I think going into why some families (even biological ones) look so different would have been a bit much
Reminds me of how someone got mad that a certain character from this one anime "didn't sound black", but what they didn't know was that THE VOICE ACTOR WAS BLACK.
I get that comment too, but the weird thing is, even black people say I don't talk/ act black. It weirds me out cuz I'm just like "how do you talk/act like a black person?"
@@camakathekilla2347 EXACTLY! Like what does "talking black" even sound like? And how do you "act black"? Like a person is a person. You can't predict or justify a persons actions or words based on race. The concept of acting/ talking "black" doesn't even make any sense.
This is such an interesting idea. I'm a half black, half white man that grew up in MS. The line between implicit and explicit racism can get blurry when people are actually taught explicit racism under the guise of implicit racism. I've met a girl who genuinely believed black people shouldn't be allowed on money, but couldn't begin to express why she believed it so deeply because she was taught that her family's barely suppressed explicit racism was actually not racism at all since it wasn't explicit. It's amazing how the human brain can rationalize.
Guns and pepper spray aren't race specific. It's inferred that fox spray works against foxes. Suspect forces an officer to shoot him/her, it doesn't matter what race they are.
I'm not one for expressing emotions when watching something but that seriously brought out laughter. Especially since there is an actual joke going around saying, " You're not racist!? CONGRATZ!" not being racist isn't a title and shouldn't be done to receive an award or entitlement it really makes me laugh
I definitely have a lot of problems in terms ofimplicit bias that I hold as a white woman, but it's possible not figuring out until fairly recently that I'm gay and also autistic may have helped me to recognize that I obviously can't just say whatever due to also being minoritized in other ways... at least that's my explicit belief that comes naturally
Thanks fangirl! Just don't apologize to us for not telling all your friends about our channel. That was weird. Tell all your friends about our channel! That was desperate. I'm sorry that you feel that we're weird and desperate. Nailed it.
Um, um Why. Apologizing can be really good But in a lot of these people need thicker skin. I cant control how you feel. I can only control my actions and I dont know what will bother you(cant read minds). Like they said about the golden rule treat others like you want to be treated. So if Im doing that or trying to do that and something offends you. Im not going to apologize for that. She didnt betray that.
@@TerryAVanguard That is true. I also have offended people without meaning to before, and they were not situations like this where Judy offends Nick. I've offended people by saying things that are genuinely not offensive-- now sometimes, I have offended people by saying things that are offensive but a lot of times I have not. And the whole "people need to get a thicker skin" actually resonates with me and I agree with it. That being said, I solely agree with it in certain, very specific contexts. I do not agree with it, for instance, when a person gets offended by "small" offenses or "micro" aggressions that were misogynistic, sexist, racist, etc.
I don't why but when that pig told the cheetah "Go back to the forest" and she goes "I'm from the Savanah!" I just started crying. That ignorant hate just hit me a little too close to home.
@@JemariaW it really sucks. the first time I got told that, i had a breakdown. now I've been told it lot, being in the south, so I can just joke about it, but it still kinda hurts
Its so discouraging to hear the hate AND ignorance rolled into one, the dismissal of my right to be here AND the erasure of the culture that shaped my existence. I remind people someone in your line came here for the same reason as us all so be grateful to them. Otherwise, sit and spin on it.
Being from Oklahoma I’ve seen a Native American being told go back to Mexico. I was so happy when they said “go back to Europe and give Me my land back.”
I showed this movie to my parents (they’re Mexican immigrants) and they were chatty and asking questions the whole movie but when we got to *that* scene it was silence. You could feel just so much resentment and anger for years for living that exact moment with so many people.
i showed this to my grandma earlier today. and she was silent for a moment before going, "You know. I'm thankful that you always have access to this sort of education." This really ended up helping my grandma out some too. she'd also say that her colored neighbors were very articulate. She stopped saying it entirely, along with a few other things. Thanks for making these, seriously ♥️
@@CinemaTherapyShow I do agree that prejudice can be subtle and hurtful, but this Implicit Bias concept has a dark side. It makes EVERYONE biased. For example, just as Judy unintentionally hurt Nick during her speech by the implication that predators are dangerous, you two hurt me with the implication that I am racist at my core! What a terrible thing to say about so many people, and yet you meant no harm. The problem with the concept of Implicit Bias is that it causes the person who believes it to be Implicitly Biased toward everyone else. Surely as a therapist you can see the harm in believing that everyone around you assumes you’re a racist at heart. If then, like Nick, a person comes to believe that no matter what they do they will be judged as a racist couldn’t they decide to be the best fox or racist they can be? This line of thinking is not good. Prejudice is wrong, but forcing people to be immersed in the idea that they always carry prejudice towards others isn’t any better.
@@tink6225 They specifically said that everyone is implicitly biased until they get ‘woke’. So if you find the woke movement distasteful and prefer to just treat people the way you want to be treated, well, they said you’re just a little bit better than the KKK. Really? I’d say not committing murder in general makes you a lot better than them, but apparently that’s not good enough. In addition to not killing people or just being a kind person we also need to be on board with the idea that we have even more racism to overcome. Where does it end? At what point is our behavior acceptable enough to not be considered ‘Implicitly Biased’?
@@michaelrizzo4174 being implicitly biased isn't a completely horrible thing lmaoo and nobody is implying that it is. it's just something in the back of our minds. not the same thing as racism but not a completely good thing either. literally all you have to do is acknowledge when you're being implicitly biased
15:48 "A true apology is not about getting a certain reaction from the other person." The rest of the quote is great but this made me completely stop and rethink all the little unnecessary apologies I give every day on order to subconsciously protect myself from rejection...this really is free therapy.
Yesss!!! I rewatched it over and over again to catch all the different expressions. It's interesting to me that the tiger in the back doesn't seem that bothered.
One of the things I love about Zootopia is how it handles intersectionality. As well as the pred/prey dynamic, there's the issue of size. The prejudice Judy faces in becoming a cop stems from her size, not her diet. And the villain tries to get Judy on-side by saying, more than once, "Us little guys gotta stick together". It's telling that the missing otter is given low priority as a case: not just a predator, but also small. And Judy being willing to look for him could be perceived as an act of solidarity from one small mammal to another. I know that other reviewers and commentators have said that if the carnivore/herbivore conflict can represent race, then the large/small prejudice could represent gender, or even disability. These different prejudices play out in Zootopia all at the same time, as well as addressing differences between city/country, local/newcomer, rich/poor, famous/unseen, and probably more. Most films, even very serious, explicit stories about the evils of prejudice, would only address one or two of these issues in a single work. Zootopia does an amazing job of demonstrating that you can't discuss any social situation in isolation. That life is, as Judy says, messy.
It's also interesting to note that Mr. Otterton is classified as a predator, and therefore dangerous, despite the fact that they eat primarily fish, this world's most legal and ethical source of meat and no danger to any of the sapient animals here. But the prey animals don't care.
I'd really like to recommend The Dragon Prince here, it does a great job of addressing prejudice, especially in season 1. When a human and an elf from opposite sides of a race war have to work together, things are going to be rocky. The human intentionally plays up elven stereotypes in an attempt to scare away an antagonist, but only succeeds in hurting his elven ally's feelings. The elf regularly spouts stereotypes when forced to disguise herself as human, making herself into an exaggerated caricature. The elf offers the human a drink of red liquid and he automatically assumes it to be blood. When the elf is complimenting the human, she describes him as "different" from other humans. The human, in turn, describes her as "a good elf". It's a very interesting exploration of bias!
I think a big thing they addressed well was the fact that she thought that since she, as a bunny, had been discriminated against, she can’t do the same. Someone that is a minority, will do something and not think it’s wrong because “I have experienced discrimination, so I would definitely recognize when I’m being discriminatory.” She doesn’t recognize her bias that predators are violent, because in her perspective, bias is people being condescending rather than afraid.
To me, it feels a lot like the difference between the discrimination some people show to women and the discrimination shown to people based on race. Your thoughts?
@@mathnerd3364 It's certainly an interesting difference. On the one hand, I don't know too many women who would say they have been discriminated against because people are afraid of them - typically, it's the exact opposite issue. It is therefore tempting to say most discrimination they face comes in the form of condescension or exclusion. Conversely, many people in ethnic or sexual minorities do experience fear from their majority counterparts and have faced anger, violence, and exclusion based on this. If I may step back to what women face, however, I would like to point out that while they don't have the exact same issues as other minorities, they do experience violence and harassment as well to a far greater extent than males for a variety of reasons. My personal experience as a woman of mixed heritage has been that while racial discrimination and gender discrimination have different causes and some differences in how they present, both groups are likely to experience violence, abuse, patronization, exclusion, financial disparity, and many other issues. We shouldn't be condescending to one of these groups and say that the other has it worse when really they both have significant challenges to navigate. Telling a group that their problems are comparably negligible will only serve to pit that group against the other minority, when we should all be standing together as a united front. Sorry for the essay; I was just very interested in what you and the original poster had to say!
@@kipandren One of the things I hate about society is that it does tend to pit groups against each other based on differences we can't control. Watching Zootopia, I can say that there have been times my internal bias has come up, not because of anything the person did, but because of situations that happened to me in the past. For example, I don't get in elevators alone with men. I check over my shoulder when exiting a grocery store. I don't answer if men talk to me when I'm alone. I'd like to say that it's entirely unmotivated by race and ethnicity, but I don't want to make that declaration too confidently. I'm not sure where the line between protecting myself and being biased against others lies.
@@mathnerd3364 That's very insightful! I think the first step in moving forward to a more open mindset is being willing to take a hard look at our own biases; we can't make changes until we recognise the need to change. I will admit that I have done the same things you have shared and not always been the most trusting of men. For my personal situation, I think a lot of it comes from being taught from a very early age that men are potentially dangerous, justifiably or not. It's not always easy to catch myself doing it, but I believe it's the second thought, the one where I acknowledge my bias and move beyond it, that is most important. It's having the humility to recognise that we are not perfect and the resolve to improve ourselves that makes a difference in the world.
"This is the scene where we meet Nick." And Doug. No one ever wonders why he yells at the fox for just walking across the street. If Judy had followed the truck, the movie would have been Twenty-two minutes long. IMPLICIT BIAS.
My dream is to become a pediatric therapist. I have ADHD, and I was starting to lose faith in my ability to go through with my dream (I'm only in high school and already struggling with math and science), but you have inspired me to keep going. I want this knowledge, this ability to help people. It's my dream, and I'm determined to achieve it. I want to help kids get the help that I wish I could have had.
YOU CAN DO IT! Seriously, If Jonathan can become a therapist, anybody (with effort and a little luck) can do it. And if Alan can do literally anything useful, that should give all of humanity hope. Keep us in the loop! We want to know how you're doing!
This is so inspirational! I have ADHD too, and several other mental conditions and didn’t do that well with school but I really want to get myself into some sort of organization helping people with mental illnesses. Wish you success!
Same here. I've got ADHD and a bunch of other stuff that makes life difficult, and I want to help people through their problems and difficulties. I try my best helping my friends through their problems, or just being someone to listen. Apparently I'm kind of good at it cuz all my friends are still here I want to be there for people.
I got ADHD + a lot of other things as well, I finished my education as an animator, all I can say is, if you truly want something, work hard and do your best! :)
I remember when I first saw this movie it reminded me so many times about my experiences being at Texas A&M( a predominately white school) as a young black man. Recently I had a heart to heart with a friend who admitted that they used to be a racist until they met me at school and we became friends. They started to question all the things they thought and it ate away at them that they believe in things that were against me. For those that may have strong biases about certain groups, have a conversation with them, sit down and talk to them, you be surprised how and how good of friends you can become.
Nathan, I am in the same position as you were in those days. I am currently an international student studying at Texas A&M University and honestly not the most desirable kind of international student to be in US (Iranian). So, I am feeling and facing on a daily basis both implicitly and explicitly that there is a discrimination and rasism.... Mostly implicitly these days but still I can feel it from even a simple eye contact or even a face expression after revealing my nationality.....I am suffering from this so much that the last year of my graduate student is now getting the worst year in my whole life. Even if I sit down and talk to people and try to be kind to them and be friends I am still that "exceptional" or "articulate" person from my people!
@@amiraliselahi5610 This is a late reply but spending some time with people who you strongly identify with may help you reset your self worth and value. You don't deserve the trials of distrust and exclusion. I hope things have improved for you or at least haven't gotten worse.
I always loved that the creators made the decision to make Judy bubbly and girly, instead of just a stereotypical female cop archetype. You don’t see it much (I can think of Amy from B99) and it was nice to see that trope being broken (Especially because my personality is very similar). Growing up, I always felt that in order to be taken seriously, I had to toughen personality and act rougher then I naturally was, when in truth, I am a small, girly-tomboy who has a bubbly personality and likes cute things lol And that shouldn’t discredit me in the eyes of anyone else. I don’t have to be someone I’m not in order to be taken seriously.
”We’re not super qualified to discuss another persons experience” One minute and fifteen seconds in I’m already loving this. Everyone should live by this.
You have no idea how many times I heard the opposite from people I knew. They were very much the kind of people who tried to force their view on others.
@@sweettea735 the original if I remember correctly Nick would have been the main character and starting at the age of 5 the ‘predators’ would get collars that administer an electric shock every time a ‘predator’ would experience a strong emotion. This was made to make the ‘prey’ feel safer despite the fact the ‘predators’ where often taken advantage of due to the collars. There was a lot more to the story but that’s the main bit. I think getting rid of the collars was a good idea because the movie without it ended up putting a heavier emphasis on implicit bias which is rarely talked about when it comes to teaching kids about racism.
@@paigehanika8701 Yeah I remember seeing the original scenes and I understood why it was changed. Not just for the more violent nature of the message, but for the fact that it could be easily interpreted to go both ways. It could be that the majority are oppressing the few, only granting them a lesser citizenship. But it could also be interpreted as the previously oppressed using their status as vulnerable to oppress the majority. It would be difficult to have a movie that could be used by either radical viewpoint, so it was subsequently changed. (While I'd have loved to have watched the original idea, I wildly enjoyed the tunes down version tbh)
“you’re eyes are so big” “does your mom speak english?” “haha you’re supposed to be good at math” all jokes i’ve uncomfortably laughed at. growing up i thought i couldn’t complain about racism because no one was physically hurting me. i also thought i couldn’t be racist because i wasn’t white. we all just need to work harder at avoiding micro aggressions. just because you meant no harm, doesn’t mean you did no harm.
I hear a lot of "why did you leave [insert Asian country, most likely Japan or China]" a lot and I'm literally not even Asian. My eyes just look slightly different.
They literally refuse to serve white people at many bars in Japan are are widely openly racist against foreigners. Guess what? You're not responsible for that, nor should you be villianized for something you can't control just because you share one commonality with them.
the famous "why doesn't 100% of the entire population just magically know everything about my entire life story by interacting with me 1 time" racism is beating someone to death because they look like someone who did something 4000 miles away. its not asking if your mom speaks english
That popsicle scene is one of my favorite ones in that movie just because of so many layers to it, you have Judy following Nick because he looked shady to her implicit bias, then, when she realizes he just wanted a popsicle for his "son", and was being explicitly harassed, she defends him, pointing out the wrong-doings of the store, and buys it for him, makes that 'well articulated' comment. But *then* not long afterward, you discover that he was *indeed* up to shady business, he was melting and repackaging and selling it for profit. I just love how amazingly intertwined it all is.
Thank you for pointing out how being “color blind” is somehow idealistic. I think the only way to combat racism, sexism, etc., is by accepting these differences but knowing that they shouldn’t affect one’s standing or treatment in society because its just a fact of life not a requirement or a defining feature
This -- this is exactly what the ideal world we are taught to believe in is and should be. We all need to strive to make the world a better place, as Judy Hopps said.
True, and it might just be because I am a white male, but I see skin color and whether someone is part of the lgbtq+ community as being a way of describing a person, but what that means about the person just depends on the meaning that we give to it as a person and society. For example, I know some people in the lgbtq+ community that I don't necessarily like or dislike, but I have realized that I have created an implicit bias against them in my head because of that community, even though I know deep down that that is not really why I don't like them, even if I can't describe the actual reason. I try not to hold any biases against people that I am just meeting, that way I can get to know them, but just like Judy, they will likely always exist in how I act around and what I share with them, despite my best efforts.
@Muis! Who hurt you as a child? Did you get Blackpilled by the school of hard knocks? Or... Are you just bitterly projecting your biases and hatred onto the rest of the world?
I noticed something interesting about the line "a real articulate fella". From what we've seen in the movie, the only other fox Judy has communicated with was Gideon. While she shows later on in the scene with her parents that Gideon's bullying didn't skew her view on Foxes, it actually did when she called Nick an "articulate fella", because her only experience with Foxes was Gideon and it unintentionally shaped her view of them. Essentially she was trying to complement Nick, but in actuality said to him "oh, you're smart and well-mannered for a Fox", though she didn't mean to; which PERFECTLY matches Cinema Therapy's quote "good intentions doesn't mean good behaviour". I think it's another powerful example in the film that you might think you're not biased, but are unaware that you implicitly are.
The sad irony of this is before the video started the presenters had to play into other people's bias by walking in lockstep with the "white privilege" myth. A myth so easily debunked by going to any homogeneous or semi-homogeneous country that isn't predominantly white.
17:11 really hits home. I am a flamboyant dude and since middle school lots of people just assumed that because I was flamboyant I was gay, despite my protestations. Eventually I just ended up acting “gay” because that’s what they expect. It felt awful that nobody believed me, even when they were like “it’s okay we won’t judge you for being gay”
I was a bad student (ADD + depression + parental issues makes school hard). After a certain point i just gave up. The reason i graduated highschool was cuz i wasn't allowed to not graduate and (more importantly) mu best friend believed in me. She told me all the time that I was smart and knowledgeable but that my situation sucked. And that I'd do better when we got out. When i would have control over my circumstances (we both thought college was the answer cuz that was what we were taught). But i had a fee classes i gave up on because i was told i wasn't good enough so i just didnt put the effort in. Why try when you are only going to fail? Might as well put the effort in somewhere else (like not giving up entirely)
Don't worry, if people are so involved in your sexuality, they probably questioning their's, and aren't feeling confident, and projecting their insecurities on you. But if you're expressing yourself in the most honest way, and if you're cool with it, then just ignore those people. (I know easier said than done.) Also even if you were gay and told them, they would not stop pestering you anyways. I speak from experience in that one. Anyways, just don't let it get to you, and continue to shine.
A lot of people (mostly my friends) assume my dad is bisexual, because he acts a bit flamboyant too. He’s straight, he’s just secure enough in his sexuality and masculinity to be himself. Keep being you.
I hate how simple things like being flamboyant can cause people to make assumptions like that these days... Like why do people read into things so much? Why can't people just be themselves and not have to worry about random stereotypes influencing their lives? :(
This is a powerful topic. I'm a ginger black American gay guy. I grew up with bias around me, but it was cuz I'm light skinned, freckles, and red hair. As a kid, I was always popular, and other kids liked me becuase I was articulate, intelligent, and well educated. bullies wanted to be my friend because I was so kind and well-spoken. It was the adults that made me uncomfortable. Kids would ask why I spoke as I did, why my voice was so high, why my features were different from my brothers, and if I liked boys, but I never felt offense. I felt insecure because all the adults at the time were homophobic, religious, and racist. I grew up hearing how terrible white people were, how immigrants were taking over everything, and even how other black adults didn't like my mixed features. Only other kids were sincere, ask their questions, and decide they didn't care how different I was because I was great at freeze tag and making new games. I'm now 27, and it took me about 25 of those to accept how I look, I'm still learning the self love, but it's all a hurdle. I don't feel secure in any communities still. I'm not white, and they feel either patronizing or awkwardly guilty. Black communities either see me as special or gross, and I wanna hide in plain sight. The LGBT+ community says it's inclusive, but I'm either seen as attractive because I'm different or unattractive because I don't adhere to the western / euro-centric beauty standard. I'm not ugly, but I'm not attractive. The irony is the most racism I've ever experienced against me was by other black people! In my current college, literally EVERYONE in my classes are white, so topics of race always become awkward, and I can feel the air shift. I hate the "I don't see colour" thing. We all see colour! don't take my colour from me! I have more or less melanin than you and a different past! Now let's play tag already! As an adult, I realize my experiences have been atypical yet still quite tragic. It's very lonely, but It's better to be alone than to be with ingenuine people.
Are you doing alright? sorry if this is super out of the blue but i just couldn't pass by and ignore it, i genuinely want to know if you're alright. but it's ok if you don't want to talk about it
That last sentance really hit the nail on the head for me. If I smell a stunt or bs coming out of a persons mouth, especially a friends or family members mouth, I call it out.
It appears you've had quite a rough one ime not tye most optimistic persone but I say with a good bit of confidence that while some black and white and queer people will dislike you for how you are there are also many how won't care and accept you for how you are So anyway have a good day
@Yanina cattani I'm very well, thank u for asking 😌 I've just graduated with my 2nd degree, and I have a goddaughter on the way. We get triggered at some things and pick fights with the past, but when the dust settles, the now and next r what matter most, y'know 😌 I think I'm pretty good
@U.F. I thank u. Tbh, it's still rough dating-wise, but I'm appreciating the journey. I admittedly had bouts of vanity and anger, but then I grew to truly like myself and see the beauty in others I wouldn't have seen beyond the skin deep layer. Friends ask y I bother responding to guys I'm not attracted to or r much older, and I remind them a bit of kindness goes a long way, and there's nothing wrong with sparing a few minutes instead of blocking them straight away. We should just treat each other better, yknow. When u do, u might start treating yourself the best.
I hate how little people talk about the news reporters in that scene where Judy answers questions poorly. The level of contorting her words to suit a differnet narrative is so accurate to how the news is in real life. They'll say what happened, but it was actually x threatening y not x defending themselves against y.
@@lavans5721 Well, the reporter in question is the one who asked "so predators are the only ones going savage?" which felt more divisive than the previous and following questions. So there is some good reason to be suspicious. Plus, Bellweather wasn't the only criminal sheep. She had a big group of sheep working with her as well. Though, the fact that it was ONLY sheep feels like a can of worms waiting to be opened.
Ngl, I absolutely hate it when people talk like this, mocking you for supposedly expecting a reward for basic decency. Like, what if I don't expect a medal or whatever it is that they're suggesting? The absence of punishment is NOT the same thing as a reward, and therefore, pointing out that you don't deserve to be punished is NOT the same thing as demanding a reward.
Oh boy. You guys said the "keeping predators in check" and gave me flash backs to the bonus features. The original plot for this movie was SO much darker. Originally the predators were forced by society to wear shock collars. If their heart rate went high enough (as a tracker for anger but excitement did it too) the collar shocked them. To "keep predators in check". The writers changed the story because they realized they created a world too dark to cheer on.
Oh shiste yeah I heard about that early story and I nearly forgot... but dang that was way more intense. They even animated one scene where Nick gets his shock collar removed for some sort of check up, and the short-lived relief he felt at taking it off was heartbreaking...
In the scene where Judy apologized to Nick, the background had the building where Nick built his theme-park!! From the original plot! That's a nice little detail right there.
@@rogelinelim1046 psycho pass was dark, it was sad to me because people who needed mental help or were responding appropriately to a traumatic or stressful experience were treated like criminals by a machine
An interesting thing about Judy is that, aside from believing herself to be enlightened, she is also a minority in her workplace and faces a lot of ridicule and condescension for wanting to be treated like her colleagues, proving that just because you're a minority in one context doesn't mean you can't be prejudiced against a different minority at the same time
I always appreciate your commentary. As "two white guys" I think you definitely nailed implicit bias. I went to a school district where I was one of only a few black students and I dealt with a bunch of well intentioned well meaning white teachers, students their and parents who were constantly saying things that were incredibly offensive but with the best intentions. I can't tell you how many times I was complimented for being "not like other black people", and how articulate I was and how comfortable they felt having me in their home. Sadly, sometimes the compliments were worse than the insults because there's no way to respond sincerely. In a weird way I preferred people who were just openly blatantly racist because I knew how to handle them. It was the ones who would invite me to their house for dinner and spend 30 minutes telling me how racist their grandparents had been and how they didn't see color; those were the ones who made me the most uncomfortable. It seemed as if they were trying to use their friendship with me to prove they were good people. I was the "black friend" they would can conveniently reference whenever they wanted to prove that they weren't racist.
My first thought at the "you are not like other black people" was "okay, so how many black people do you know?" And you are right of course, back-handed compliments are insidious, unintentionally back-handed compliments are even worse. I've seen that bias once in a _really_ elderly relative: born in the 1930ies, I'll swear to it that she doesn't have a mean bone in her body, and I've never heard her say a disparaging or even impatient word about anybody. So having her comment in a 80% admiring, 20% surprised tone about how eloquent an Afro-American politician is ... oh drat. After the first shock I had to remind myself that yep, this was somebody born well before the civil rights movement. Even with that age group, it's such a weird, weird feeling when one of your most inoffensive, unassuming relatives makes such a remark.
@@jakubrogacz6829 oh yeah, something like that happens in my country. They have versions of academic awards for people in a specific minority group, and while the intention is good, having that reward implies that a person in that minority group is incapable of performing to the standard of everyome else. It's really hard to complain about since because since I'm not in that minority group I just sound like I want less recognition for people who are, when really I just don't agree with the underlying implicit message that an Aboriginal person can't beat non aboriginals in academic fields. The worst part is that in a fucked up way they have a point, the Australian education system is slanted against Aboriginal people. Hell, pretty much every system is slanted against Aboriginal people when you look at the statistics, the statistical gaps in lifespan and incarceration are horrifying. But these academic awards are just a blatant attempt at avoiding the responsibility schools and the wider group of public services have to serve and protect citizens regardless of identity.
Fun fact: herbivores (including rabbits) can be every bit as savage as predators under the right circumstances, and many even eat meat on occasion if the opportunity presents itself. Not sure if the filmmakers were intentionally trying to make this point, but Judy's seemingly common sense "biological" explanation for the fact that only predators are going savage isn't just offensive and a distraction from the real cause: its simply factually incorrect, just like a lot of the supposedly "biological" explanations presented for inequities in the real world.
Heck, a lot of times *herbivores* are actually the animals that are genuinely belligerent and aggressive towards other creatures; while carnivores can be that way too, they usually try NOT to do that to save energy for hunting (or if they feel like they need to defend themselves).
Yess. I dont know where the notion of "if it eats plants" its friendly comes from. Carnivores attack because they are hungry and can be discouraged if you arent worth the effort, Herbivores attack with homicide on their mind and any attempts to discourage from attacking them like with carnivores will just make them angrier and keen to kill you.
Rabbits will eat their own babies lol Sometimes they do it if they feel their babies are being threatened, so it's sort of well-intentioned but it's still horrific nonetheless
As a teenager, I fell in with a group of friends that were extremely explicit racists. Not burn crosses level, but still a core part of the groups identity. I was a weird, lonely, bullied kid, and they treated me like family, it was difficult not to get drawn in. I dropped out a few years later when they wanted me to hurt people, which I never have and hope to never do. Even though I'm absolutely against everything the stand for now, it's hard not to get certain impulses now and then. They absolutely brainwashed me with their garbage, and I don't know if the split second reactions to certain things will ever go away. What I can choose is how to deal with it. Do I choose to let my bias affect me, or do I choose to resist. Considering I have close friends that have so much intersectionality you'd be hard pressed to construct it, I hope I'm doing an okay job (and they're my friends because they're awesome, not to prove a point). But I still have so much work to do, 20 years later. I just want to be a good person.
Something I found fascinating the first time I watched this movie is how the predators and prey species aren't just biased against each other, there's prejudices, stereotypes and biases between the different species as well. For instance, how the yak character at the nudist place kept making implicitly biased assumptions about the elephant character, like how she had to have great memory because she was an elephant and "elephants never forget". This stereotype is further underlined by the fact that she actually doesn't remember anything at all. A lot of people talk about the 'predators and prey' theme when it comes to this movie, but I haven't seen a lot of people acknowledge that even just amongst the prey species there is implicit bias, that's it's such a deep-rooted societal issue spreading beyond just 'predators vs. prey'.
Tbh its alot like reality. When people think "rascism" or "stereotyping" they think mostly white people against black people or (now) asians, but there is SO MUCH MORE. for example, the original irish immigrants were treated by racism and stereotypes, mentally and physically disabled people are STILL stereotyped against, etc.
This is exactly why I hate Twitter discussions about this movie that automatically relates the biases in Zootopia as a direct allegory for black people vs white people. The biases and prejudices are more than that, both in the movie and irl. It's not a simple black and white situation, which Twitter for some reason likes associating with anything and everything.
That's actually a really good point. It's considered a "positive" stereotype, but it's still a stereotype. It's the real life equivalent to someone saying that a Black person must be good at sports, or how all Chinese people are good at mathematics.
I found an old comment recently that I wrote as a teenager: "of course other races can be handsome. I love flirting with hispanics and blacks because there isn't a pressure to be in a serious relationship" When I read it, I was shocked. I was trying to appear all enlightened~ saying how every race is attractive. But in the same heartbeat I had this huge underlying assumption that interracial relationships aren't something anyone strives for. Which- I realize came from how I grew up, with my parents and grandparents discouraging interracial relationships. But I'm surprised I didn't even see the bias I carried. - also, I am now married to a hispanic man and he is the love of my life :p don't give up hope on the implicitly biased- we can change!
Well anyone has their own tastes. As a Mexican, white girls are hottest while black girls are the least. Not because I don’t like black people in general, just my own sexual bias
As a Mexican woman, that is a result of implicit bias. Our own culture encourages us to marry light so our kids will be light because dark is bad. Latinos are colorist, and when you yourself are dark then the darkest become the least desireable, aka people of African descent. So I think sexual bias results out of implicit bias
Marco, I agree people's tastes do not mean they are racist. My problem was, I definitely thought hispanics were cute, but like I mentioned I was raised to think a romantic relationship with another race was bad. But also, maybe implicit bias does influence our preferences in this way? Because if we associate really positive feelings toward a specific race or very negative associations, I am sure this would impact our attraction towards someone.
Marco Garcia well...the thing is our tastes are also shaped by the world around us and the media we consume. I’m not saying you automatically have to change your taste in women, but maybe try questioning why is it that you find white women to be more attractive than black women. I used to find white men (güeros) more attractive than all other races, but when I started questioning why I slowly started seeing attractive men in ALL races. I say it was a win-win for me.
Something I've noticed about implicit bias is it can also be used to justify a certain behavior. For example, someone could go their whole life thinking "Bullying is and horrible and not at all justifiable" but, suddenly, they make a friend who turns out to be a bully and they think "Well, it's not that bad, they must've gone through something to justify this." They brush it off as fine.
I think what can separate the two is whether or not the person calls out the bully. Just because you had a bad history, it doesn't justify the actions. It's a reason for it, but not an excuse.
Glad I wasn't the only one who teared up rewatching that apology scene. I also cry at the tram scene every time because Nick's lines of "You never let them see they get to you" and "Why try to be anything different?" just hit SO hard Zootopia may be my fave Disney movie of all time. It is SO incredibly well-written (aside from the villain, which we don't need to talk about), the character interactions are just so delightful, the visuals are great, the music is catchy, and you highlighted the ways in which this story tackles such a real theme of racism in such a clever way using animal characters. And at least to me, it never feels preachy. It never feels like the movie has an agenda. It just feels like it's portraying reality in a fictional world through a very human way, ironically enough
Other then the you know what and that god forsaken dance party ending, I love Zootopia. Not my favorite Disney movie though. That goes to Hunchback of Notre Dame
Personally I think doesn't matter if you're black or white or what sexualty you have, everyone has implicit bias. My Indian parents really don't like Chinese and Pakistani people and tend to see Muslims in a bad light. I know it's wrong but sometimes I act like Judy by accident. We are built biologically to judge systems and groups in general terms, and our brains tend to see things in black and white to keep everything in a tight internal narrative. Trying to change those implicit biases will take personal confrontation like it did for Judy, because we have so many of them that it's impossible to change all of them. This is just my opinion anyway
there isn't anything bad with such biasas like in this movie if it were real life and you were a real rabbit trying to be the best anti-racist and trying to say hello to a lion or a fox will literally get you killed. the important thing to remember is a trend is not a guarantee but at the same time generalizations are still generally true.
@@mayainverse9429 it seems quite risky though to believe generalizations about groups of people though. Bc of media we don’t always know the whole truth. Not everyone reads an entire story and instead will just focus on the headline. We should always be aware of our implicit biases and how they affect people bc in some cases they can be damaging.
@@nightowl_ ok well. try being gay and take a vacation with your partner to Iran with the idea that you shouldn't let implicit bias get in the way. good luck.
@@mayainverse9429 “There isn’t anything bad with such biases”? I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to conclude you were stupid due to being a conservative, would you?
True...everyone is prejudice and has an implicit bias, but it is nothing compared to racism, which is prejudice plus the power to affect or harm someone's livelihood or life altogether. And that is what Bellwether, as well as those like her, did and still continues to do.
Im surprised you guys didn’t show the train scene, it’s such a simple scene of a mother pulling her kid away from someone but it’s so effective in showing how subtle biases can be
I really wish I could say that I'm surprised that our video dealing with Implicit Bias (and tangentially, racism) is our most disliked so far. The least controversial thing anybody should ever say is, "We need to treat everyone with respect, and never pre-judge anybody, based on any external, physical trait." And yet... Here we are. What a dumb time we live in. I mean... Not that the overall share of likes to dislikes is bad, but really, should anybody be disliking "Let's all fix our implicit biases"? Let's all be less dumb!
AND YET, you pre-judge yourselves, _"huwite pwivileged peeple at the top of the food chain"._ How about you fix your implicit bias about yourselves first? This is exactly why I disliked your video. Being part of a majority in terms of the skin colour does not make you part of the majority in terms of anything else, and doesn't really grant you any privilege. And this argument of "white=privileged" sounds even stupider when you look at the poorest of white people, the richest of black people, the places with majority black population, and all forms of actual privilege other than being rich, or being the majority (in terms of views, rather than just skin colour) that you don't take into account. _"You can't just relax any more"_ - see, that's the problem. You must be able to relax and speak your mind without the feeling that you're walking a minefield. Which doesn't negate the need to get rid of implicit bias, but is still important, probably even more important than that. Even Zootopia recognized that things aren't as simple as "majority=privileged". Carnivores there are the minority. Yet they are the ones with the history of oppressing herbivores. And they aren't underprivileged as of the time of the film, as the mayor and a good half of the cops are carnivores. Yet they are the ones who face the prejudice. Both herbivores and carnivores, and all separate species, have some stereotypes about them. And some of those stereotypes even prove to be true to some extent _(ahem, sloths)._
@@kristarobertson1308 and this is actually something I can agree with. Racism cannot be defeated by racism with the opposite vector. Neither can sexism, or any other form of prejudice.
@@mirrortherorrim I can tell by your super long paragraph you wrote that you didn't even fully watch the video, or only listen to it with one ear. You say address this, and changed it to majority privilege. And yes, we're white people exist but if a white man and a poor black man commits the same crime chances are the poor black man will get a harsher sentence.
Worked at Fast Food a while ago, and some customer was being REALLY dumb. My manager at the time, is Native American. So when this customer says "Go back to your country!" I actually had to hold back a laugh. Bro this is his country But it's still sad that just the skin tone was enough to make that man think less of someone else.
"He's crying again. I love this man" had me laughing so much, it genuinely brought me joy lol. There's nothing shameful about human emotion and I love seeing it embraced. (The video about toxic masculinity is a great follow up to this). I love Zootopia. The discussion about implicit bias is uncomfortable, but necessary. Unlearning it is uncomfortable, but necessary. I hope one day race (and gender, sexuality, religion) will be non-issues.
That moment made me SO happy too!!! I love these two and how they openly adore and appreciate each other in these videos. And Alan really does cry everytime, it's so endearing because you can tell he feels deeply and loves the craft and seeing these amazing things in movies.
12:07 something about this specifically is that most times ppl don’t mean it in a rude way it’s meant to be a compliment but it has like a under tone of being backhanded I’ve had people compliment me on my English or just ask if I even speak English and while I get it’s not meant in a derogatory way it’s creates a barrier that like separates me from other people or makes it feel like I’m able to “fit in” like earn my spot and be accepted but I never really say anything or try to correct them because I know they’re not trying to be hurtful so I just brush it off but I know it’s not really right and while it’s meant to be nice it isn’t something you should really say
It was a reference to Joe Biden, when he referred to president Obama as “the first mainstream African American man thats clean and articulate, its a fairytale man!” He thought it was a compliment, but it was definitely some extremely obvious implicit bias.
As an Asian person whose preferred language is English, I get a lot of "Wow your English is soooo good!" Like, yeah it sounds like a compliment but it's more of a microaggression towards other people in my ethnic group.
I actually got in a lot of trouble, as did my mother, when the No Child Left Behind act meant that kids started having to take state-mandated standardized tests. The hardest question for me? Fill in your race/ethnicity. I was 5, and am autistic. My skin isn't the color of the paper. I must not be white. My skin doesn't look like the ink. I must not be black. I don't speak Spanish, and my name is Armstrong (clearly not hispanic name), so I'm probably not hispanic. There was no "other" to fill in. I made my own bubble: TAN! Yeah, my teacher, the vice principal, the principal, they were all PISSED. Mom was called in and told off for not teaching her idiot daughter that she's white. Mom just stared at them like, "You realize you won't even let me teach her to READ, right? And now you want me to get into talks about her race? She's five! She still thinks a race is a running thing." I had to redo the ethnicity question. Now I know I'm like 50 different kinds of white.
I still don't know what to select when I'm forced to pick only one option. I don't look white, but most of my biological siblings do. Am I supposed to go off genetics or appearances? Do I have to reject part of my background so I can fit on government forms? I'm glad it's a growing trend to "select all that apply".
I get this a lot when people hear that I am autistic. "Oh you express yourself so well!" Always said like they are talking to a kindergartner. I'm a forking adult. Just because I am autistic doesn't mean I can't talk. I do wish people would learn about other people instead of only trusting in stereotypes.
So this is something i know I'm guilty of myself as I've had time to reflect on it now as an adult and in a weird twist of fate i am learning there's a high likelihood i am on the spectrum, particularly what would've formerly been called "Asperger's". I'm researching and talking to friends and family and professionals and will be seeking an official assessment at some point, and once i get there, if i find out that, yes, i am actually on the spectrum i don't want to be suddenly facing these types of comments when never once in my life have i dealt with them before in regards to ASD (i have dealt with backhanded compliments a few times before), and especially not after putting in so much effort to truly understand how my own mind is working. So i guess in a sense, i am afraid of somehow dealing with an extra layer of crap from other people, and maybe that's its own kind of implicit bias, one rooted in a foundational lack of understanding for most other people?
@JacelynAvowlin unfortunately the world is built to cater to what people consider "normal" so you'll have to prepare yourself for being treated strangely. I'm singled out whether i say I'm Autistic or not, because people seem to have a spidey sense for people who are different. Both of my children, also on the spectrum, experience the same with their peers.
@keen8271 oh I mean plenty of people already think I'm weird, I guess I'm more just not ready for that to somehow turn to pity or for the tone of treatment to change for the worse. I get left alone for the most part, and I don't want that to change, and I understand that so long as I don't bring it up where it isn't necessary then it won't affect anything, but u also understand that in knowing my mind better ill know how to tell people how to help me and there will be circumstances where it would be necessary to say something so that both parties understand eachothers potential limitations.
@@JacelynAvowlin exactly. Not ever telling people really isn't an option. If im crying in Walmart because they stopped selling my cereal people gonna ask LOL
I do have one small gripe with Judy's apology to Nick, and that's that Nick ends up having to perform the emotional labour of comforting Judy, and that's something marginalised people speak about all the time when we point out to our friends that they've done or said something wrong and it can deter us from speaking up. If one of my friends says something queerphobic to me I don't want them to start feeling sorry for themselves and require me to comfort them when I call them out, and I think allies to marginalised people really need to learn that if you feel upset when you get called out that is absolutely fine, but the person who called you out is not who you unload that on and who you rely on to absolve you, because they already had to deal with the hurt of what you did - and they have to deal with a build up of hurt constantly. If you get emotional when apologising to someone for doing something racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, then the best thing to do is make sure you've said all you need to say, then take some time to compose yourself or turn to another friend to help you calm down. Your feelings are valid, but marginalised people are not responsible for comforting you after you do something wrong. That's not to say that your friend WON'T comfort you or even that they won't want to, some people don't mind - but there becomes a problem when during an apology you implicitly expect your friend to comfort you and tell you it's fine, you're a good person, they know you're not really a bigot, etc. I think it would have been far more impactful for Judy to apologise, get upset, turn away and compose herself, and then for Nick to play the pen back, to forgive her and for them to hug. This is a kids film and I think that would have modelled apologies where discrimination are concerned just slightly more effectively. As it is in the film he has to make her feel better after the apology when he's the one who's been wronged - it centres Judy's emotions a little too much. It's still a sweet moment though, this is just a small thing. edit: I'd like to amend saying and implying that a few moments aren't that important - they are, please check out NotABot 8436 's comment below
That makes total sense. Do you think that the time gap between Nick calling her out and her apologizing smoothed that transition though? Nick called her out in the moment and then walked away, and she came to him later, so they both had time to work things out in their heads. I also think Judy was pretty clear that she didn't expect him to comfort her or even forgive her because she was completely aware that what she did was wrong; she wasn't trying to justify her actions or make him feel guilty for how she felt. She completely took responsibility for her actions and her response. So when you say that Nick shouldn't be required to absolve Judy, I completely agree, and I also feel that him forgiving her was a free choice he consciously chose to make without any pressure because of the way she apologized. Yes, she was upset and crying, but that was after she made the expectations of not requiring him to forgive her clear, and having experienced fighting with my friends and then resolving, there are usually tears involved because those people mean so much to you and it's upsetting to have a relationship messed up, especially if it's something you've done. I definitely agree that ill-placed apologies focused on blame, not being accountable for your actions, and then still expecting the injured party to do the emotional labor for you is completely unfair and irresponsible. From my perspective though, it seemed like Judy's apology wasn't that. What would you have done if you were in Nick's shoes?
@@ilurvsharrypotter (sorry for the incoming essay haha) I'm not saying Judy's apology wasn't genuine and that she didn't do the correct work of figuring out exactly what she had to say. It's not about the content of her apology. What I'm saying is that when she breaks down crying in the apology I think it would have been a little more effective from an anti-implicit bias perspective for Judy to pull HERSELF together before Nick plays the pen back to her, do that emotional work for herself. She could even start crying again once they hug and make up, but the way it's framed in the film is Nick comforting Judy, not Judy comforting Nick. Which is a problem - Nick is the one who's been wronged, and Judy did the wrong. Forgiveness is not the same as having to do emotional work to make someone feel better in that moment, to manage their emotions. (edit: I'd like to amend saying and implying that a few moments aren't that important - they are, please check out NotABot 8436 's comment below) I've been on both sides of it, and I didn't even realise it was happening TO me when I occasionally had to call people out on queerphobia until I saw black activists talking about it in relation to racism, let alone that I was guilty of it (and I have been, and I regret that). And Judy herself experiences a less intense version of this kind of interaction earlier in the film - when her workmate calls her cute and she explains to him why he shouldn't say that, she is doing so much work to say it in a careful, light tone that will protect his feelings and manage his reaction. And instead of just saying 'oh I'm so sorry I upset you, I didn't know, I won't do it again' and moving on in the interaction, Clawhauser goes on a (short, but it's there) self indulgent little speech about how he should have known better, centring his feelings and self image - but Judy's the one who was hurt. She ends up being the one doing all the mental and emotional work in that interaction. When Judy apologises she is justified in crying - she feels bad, that's valid. But Nick then helps her stop crying by hugging her and reassuring her - that's not an altogether bad thing but it would have been an even better model for a discrimination related apology (because this movie is explicitly trying to teach kids about bias) for her to take a moment to stop herself crying, then for Nick to play the pen and for them to hug. It could even have been sweet if she started crying again but instead of the tears of shame she's crying in her apology, they're tears of joy - having a break between those two states of crying would more clearly delineate them, and send the message that Nick is not responsible for making her feel better. Of course in the real world plenty of people will comfort their friend in these situations. Friends want to make their friends feel better when they apologise, it's natural. The thing is though, when you're marginalised in some way you can end up doing a LOT of emotional labour trying to protect and manage the feelings of the people who are doing you harm. And this film is about that harm, and it would have been cool for Judy to have a moment of realising that she's centring her emotions over Nick's, take a deep breath, and calm herself down before Nick forgives her and hugs her. It would help teach that nuance to the audience. So no the time gap doesn't address this (again, small when it comes to a few moments in a kids film) problem. That time already serves the purpose of Judy realising exactly what she's done wrong. And none of what I'm saying is to do with Nick's decision to forgive her - we're talking about absolution, not forgiveness. It's great that Judy makes it clear that she doesn't expect Nick to forgive her. The actual apology is good, and the way Nick is depicted in his decision to accept it is good. I'm purely talking about the subtle framing of Judy's emotions dominating the scene, even though she's the one who did something wrong. What's needed is just a few beats between her apology and crying, and Nick forgiving her and them hugging, for her to calm down - the difference is totally in who manages Judy's emotions, not in the apology itself, or Nick's forgiveness. Forgiveness and absolution are not the same thing - forgiveness is accepting an apology and moving forward. Absolution is releasing someone from guilt, and when someone is upset when apologising and their emotions become centred despite their wrongdoing, it's human nature (or I guess, Fox nature haha) to try to make them feel better, to convince them not to feel guilty. This person you care about is crying and upset and feels awful about themselves, and you don't want that for them, and so you perform that emotional labour of trying to absolve them. The thing is, that's unfair, because again, it centres the emotions of the person apologising and who did something discriminatory instead of those of the person who was hurt. Judy's emotions are the focus of that scene, not Nick's. And when it comes to implicit bias, feeling guilty for doing the wrong thing is actually healthy, it reminds us to keep changing and getting better (it shouldn't be overwhelming of course, but that's what forgiveness is for). But if we immediately feel absolved of our guilt - not just forgiven, but absolved - when our friends forgive us for discriminatory behaviour then you'd have to be the most self aware, in control person on earth for that to be enough to permanently change your actions, because implicit biases are basically habits. Basically, the people we hurt are never responsible for releasing us from our guilt or for comforting us when it makes us feel bad - that's something we have to work for ourselves, something we have to prove to ourselves through changing and growing. And a slight tweak to an already really great apology scene would have had slightly better implications in that sense. It would have helped to decouple being forgiven and having your emotions managed by the person you hurt. And decoupling those things is important to being an ally to any group. It's also an important thing for marginalised people and kids to see modelled - to see that it's not on us to manage our friends' guilt, shame, tears, etc. when it comes to their racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. I have been in Nick's position (although thankfully not over such a serious offence as Judy's). I've had to call people in know out for queerphobia, and I often end up feeling sorry that I even said something because said friend becomes upset or starts over apologising or being so self deprecatory that it doesn't feel worth it - it's exhausting, but I also can't just sit there and not comfort them, that would feel wrong. And it's natural that I'd want to do that comforting - but that's why it's on allies to unlearn this reaction, to realise when they're centring themselves too much and change how they act in those situations. Because it can build up to the point where people stop calling their friends and family out at all because it's so much effort both while calling them out to manage your tone, and while they're apologising - even though they're the ones who are supposed to be putting in effort. I've had to change my behaviour in this way as well, because I have absolutely centred my feelings in situations where I was the person who'd done the wrong, biased thing and my friend was the one who'd been hurt, and so now I try as best I can to just apologise and not make it all about me, because I know how exhausting that is over time on the receiving end. That's why it would have been great to see Judy make that decision herself to calm down before Nick says anything back to her. It would have modelled to the audience her being responsible for her own emotions and her guilt, and it's not quite the same as her acknowledging Nick doesn't have to forgive her (which is a great thing that I'm glad is in the apology). Sorry if this is too long lol, it's just a thing that's worth getting detailed about in my opinion. And again, the apology is great as it is, this would just make it that bit better.
that is very true and I didn't think about that, great insights. You're right, even Judy just turning away, fully ready to leave, and Nick stopping her would've been very impactful
Can we mention the beautiful line “Oh there’s a THEM now?” It’s perfect and shows his emotions and feelings wonderfully
Yes! And it definitely is very meaningful/symbolic as well.
Because of the whole "us vs. them" issue.
And the whole "you're one of the good ones" and "you're not like them"-- Muslims can relate to what Nick felt when he heard that.
When he says, "Oh, there is a THEM now??", he is essentially frustrated and angered by the fact that Judy is alienating pretty much all predators except for him because she has seen that he is a good guy.
And alienation is real and truly horrific, and he could feel the harm that it accompanies.
Also, someone below in the comments (I do not remember if it was their own comment or a reply they made to someone else's) stated that this sort of statement "is a jab at the group, not a compliment to the person". And I think that is exactly why "backhanded compliments" are really not compliments at all.
@@noorykorky5056 Thank you so much for this. When he said that line I really didn't understand what he meant and I was really curious to know what he meant. I mean.. it was a complement she gave him, why is he so mad? Now I get it. Thank you!
@@loongal Yeah it is pretty much like when in a romantic teenage lame drama the dude is like "you are different from all the other girls" and the film portrays it the same way too
Is like insulting your community and basically saying "you are not valid because of who you are inherently, you are valid because of this and that" basically "a part of you is wrong, but like, you overcame that part of you that is wrong" saying that in reality there is something that is not right with you, but that you have just gotten over it and "fixed yourself", but if you hadn't done it you would be like "them" you would be wrong, you would not be valid, just like the rest of "them" that have something inherently bad in "them"
@@unlimon6382 Yes yes! Couldn't say it better myself. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
@@loongal You're most welcome! ☺😊 I am glad I could help! It's mostly the fact that a lot of minority groups/communities have heard these backhanded "compliments" for so long that we are just kind of triggered by them quickly like he was. While it definitely seems like a compliment, the implications of it demonstrate the fact that it actually is an insult. But I'm glad I could be of service.😌 Sometimes it's hard to tell with these things, whether you are part of a minority group or not.
Two bros chilling in a video five feet apart so the dog can have a nice place to snooze between them
Chewie does love to nap during filming, haha!
I understood that reference @Cassiopeia 😜
What a lovely reference
@@rivermistfae We all do lol
aww
I think part of the reason why Judy feels that she cannot be biased is the fact that she actively fights against a bias herself as to what bunnies are capable of. It is particularly easy to feel that as a victim you are incapable of also being a perpetrator.
It encapsulates why there are discussions about white woman feminism. White women can fight sexism as victims of it, but women of color are dealing with sexism and racism and in unique combinations, which white women are not immune from participating in and exacerbating just because they experience a little piece of that all.
You described the Twitter community
That's also an issue that many PoC have is that they think that "because I'm a minority in a white world, I can't be biased"
The best example is when black people say "black people can't be racist", which Aba and Preach have already done videos on
Dang this comment really understood that
@@ladynoluck this is why intersectional feminism is really important!
I just noticed the reaction of the predator reporters in the news conference scene. All of them immediately go defensive, ears back, and nervously looking around them. Subtle, but effective to show the instant ripple effect of her statement.
And their visible annoyance, too! Love this detail.
I didn't catch that. Nice! :D
Great catch!
Yeah. This is the very moment Judy screwed it up and put Zootopia into crisis.
And one of them is a hippo, literally the most dangerous animal on the planet that isn't a predator. 😂
“Go back to the forest!” “I’m from the Savanna!”
I think immigrants could relate to this.
I can relate to this. There was this one time I was told to go back to Africa (I also look Somali, so that could tie into it, but still) but I'm 3rd generation Jamaican like??? Where .... when... why... in what world... who told you to... did you think this was okay???
@Milk & Cookies Even if they were the ones "starting" it, virus mutations happen, It's only natural for disseses to hit populations, and now that we are all so connected it's hard to contain people in a place. I mean, you don't blame the guy that got sick and got you sick, right?
I felt that. I’ve been told to “go back to Mexico” but I’m not Mexican. I’m Puerto Rican
My personal favorite is someone shouting "go back to Mexico!" To me. I'm native american lmaooo
Every time some idiot tells you to "go back to your country." Yeah I was born in this state. This is my country. Why don't you go back to yours?
What I noticed was that Nick understood the other animal.."culture" if you will.
When they went to the "nudist" she was all shocked by it but Nick just understood that's their thing. At the DMV he understood the sloth and didn't rush him, Judy on the other hand tried to imply they're in a really big hurry, they need to get our fast, and rushed the joke when he was telling it to the other sloth, and Nick just stood there not bothered.
So many other scenes where Nick understood the different animals and respected them, and Judy just didn't understand and thought they were being an inconvenience. I'm not sure if that makes sense ...but that's what I saw.
+
I think you make a compelling point. If we place these observations in the prism of the racism analogy, it goes to show that Nick being part of a discriminated minority has a better understanding of differences and of the fact that they should be respected than Judy does
@@saraoz2629 Judy was kind of selfish in that way, but she was so used to relying on herself so it’s understandable
Nick wasn't being patient because he understood the animal culture & being nice about it. He told the joke to take advantage of the slow speaking sloths to cause delays in Judy's investigation. He was self serving in that scene.
One should stop to consider something else though. Forcing imagery and shoehorning information can be a bias in itself. Judy is a bunny. Bunnies move fast. Going slow is agonizing. Sometimes the curtains are blue not because they represent depression, sometimes they're blue because blue is nice.
I love how the case is solved because Judy's parents, quietly in the background, resolved their own prejudices and started working with a fox.
That’s actually a really cool point
Not just a fox, but Judy’s childhood bully, meaning that he probably went to apologize to them as well.
Perhaps not fully solved, however. There could still be implicit bias.
@@jazzyangelflower3344 well, sure. But, you're not going to be able to take a vocally active racist and completely remove their racial bias overnight. That takes time and often isn't really possible to completely rid it. But, this was a Disney movie, so of course it solved itself in the blink of an eye. That's what Disney does, condensing complicated problems and their solutions down so far that it seems like magic, without really going into detail on how that problem really should be solved.
@@amokriinprolgiid3409 Exactly, change isn't instantaneous, especially something that was rooted in your entire life. You have to recognise what needs to be changed and make an constant effort to change, which Judy's parents are currently doing and since it's rewarding them (gaining a business partner), they will likely keep making that effort.
i have always been so struck by the moment where Judy says "youre not like them!" and he replies, "oh, there's a *them* now?"
thats very heavy and real and completely encapsulates the whole movie's thesis.
Honestly, as a kid I remember feeling that moment was really.. cringey? So yeah looking back on it I definitely had some stuff to work out 😭
That scene always hits me so hard and gets me tearing up. I've been on both sides of very similar altercations in my life and this one never ceases to remind me that good intentions don't stop you from hurting people, trying to say the right thing doesn't replace ignorance, and you have too trying to learn and understand and listen to what other people are trying to tell you. It's a good reminder that you can be a good person, and you can be a real jerk, both at the same time and in the same breath
But he wasn't like them
Yet-
thats the single best line in the whole movie
Yeah, “they” are very clearly the missing animals that went feral? What’s supposed to be the… biting commentary here?
One thing not mentioned!
The great thing about this movie is that there's more than one implicit bias playing throughout the film. Nick represents racism (being viewed as a predator, untrusted on sight), which is easy to see, and Judy represents sexism (breaking into a big-animal profession, being called cute), which can be a little more difficult to recognize. But you can really see it when Nick says there, "You bunnies, always so emotional." It may be that he's showing a bit of his own bias there, but I think personally that he does recognize the bias of the statement and is using it to tease her, possibly as a last, mocking little gentle jab because she hurt him with the same kind of thing.
True!! the message of this movie is intersectional. The anti-racism paradigm is what this video was mostly about, but the anti-sexism paradigm is very intricate and smartly represented as well. And crossing the two, we get the message that your being part of a discriminated community yourself does not mean you don't also have biases. I also think he was teasing her with the whole "you bunnies, always so emotional" thing, kind of like getting back at her in a non-harmful way to show that he truly will not be holding any grudge against her and that he truly accepted the apology. this movie is gold i swear
I took the cute part as how black people call eachother the n word as slang for eachother but if a white person says it to a black person its racist.
@@FandomObsessedArtist Yes! It's not only a poc thing, though. Gay people can call each other f** and other things, and women can call each other sl** and such as well. Affectionately using a slur within a group is often acceptable when someone outside the group using it is not.
@James Foreman I actually like the term "majority privilege" better. I was in a car accident which left me disabled, removing me from my ableist privilege. I didn't notice how much I benefited from just by being independent, more than I'd like to get into now; but just the way buildings and cities are constructed are aimed towards the majority ableist citizens, even though the disabled minority is the largest minority in America.
Since I wasn't born this way, I was able to see things from both perspectives and experience life both ways. It made it easier to identify problematic thought processes others had and don't realize.
Even now, I know that I still have privileges. I was privileged to go to university and be in honors college, I was privileged to have both parents married and in my life (until the car accident when my dad unfortunately passed away), I was privileged to live in a house that my family owned, etc. Some privileges aren't always majority, However. Take finances, for example. Our top 1% make more than the lower classes combined (I believe that's the statistic), so they're actually minority privileged in that sense. I do think that privilege in general is a complex topic that can make people uncomfortable, but I'm glad I saw your comment.
I didn't catch onto the sexism bit, but yeah! Makes sense. I feel enlightened.
And I agree on that last bit
An apology doesn't make you entitled for forgiveness. Valuable life lesson right there.
i love how these comments are so recent
Hence why people aren't apologising anymore.
Sometimes people say things like “why are we still talking about that? I apologised.”
Or
“But I apologised for that!”
As if that automatically fixed everything and removed you from any guilt.
That’s not how apologies work or what they are for.
@@calamity2383 If you want them to make up for it, tell them how. If they don't, then that's on them. If you just want to berate them forever, that's on you.
y e s
"I love cute little animals!"
"I love eating meat"
"We're gonna bridge the divide here"
*looks at the small dog in between them with fear*
LOL.... 😂😂😂😂
The smallest dogs hold the greatest rage
I thought that was a blanket, yes I'm blind
Time stamp?
@@yellobanana6456 I was like, a somewhat white pillow. xD
Fun fact: When investigating Nick Wilde for the first time when he walks into the Ice Cream Shop, she jaywalks across the street. This is not something she normally does. When giving out tickets, she never jaywalks, as she has a deep respect for the law, but this one time seems to be an exception.
Was that intentional may I ask?
@@joshcoy6748 probably, given the theme of the movie, but could be accidental
@@Tuntor689 I see.
@@joshcoy6748 A reference to how it's okay for her to skirt the law because she's a bunny who's typically the victim. Whereas the fox was definitely looking shifty so if anything, most people would agree that fox was up to no good and put more scrutiny on him. Most would forget about chastising the bunny at all.
@@wesleywallace4426 I see.
What is interesting about the scene where she first sees Nick is that she completely misses/ignores that the truck almost hit a pedestrian while coming out of the alley. The driver is the main chemical maker/hitman Doug. Could have ended the whole thing before it spiraled out of control if she had looked past her biases.
I have never noticed it was dug.
It could totally be me, but I thought I saw him in the reporter crowd as well. It could've been a different sheep, but I have a feeling that he could've been planted.
HOly... I never noticed that. What a sneaky bit of foreshadowing / easter egg.
Yeah and the fact that he was a sheep and was being so mean to someone he almost ran over (a fox). They showed earlier on that prey can be bad people too and also if she had paid just as much attention to the sheep that she did Nick, she could have stopped all the bad that's about to happen. Typical Pixar, dropping little hints.😅😅
Trueeee
The way that Gideon apologizes as soon as he sees Judy again immediately tells you he has been to therapy. Good job Gideon!
I really liked that. You can tell that he’s grown. And I almost like that they didn’t go into detail for his story.
Yep we all need therapy
Maybe not even therapy, just matured. He was a child.
@@Frostfern94 yeah when your a child you don’t take a second thought as too what your doing like when your an adult but that scene makes me smile when he apologized for the way he acted in his youth to Judy
@Costslwaves360 "Hey, Judy. I'd just like to say, I'm sorry for the way I behaved in my youth. I-I-I had a lot of self-doubt and it manifested itself in the form of unchecked rage and aggression. ..."
Look at the vocabulary he uses there, compared to the way he speaks otherwise. It was therapy. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I just realized that that when the pig told the cheetah to go back to the forest, it had the same energy as telling someone from Asia to go back to China,Japan or India.
Damn, dudes, thanks for the likes, I didn't expect this to blow up.
And it's somewhere that isn't any of those, but have similar-looking people
@@revimfadli4666 True
So true!
I also just noticed that the person who told them that was a pig :)
@@revimfadli4666 I don't know what you mean...?
I love the fact that Alan cries so openly, it needs to be applauded for how normal it is.
🥲🙏😂
😊☺️😇 💛 🙂☺️🤧🥲
him: toxic masculinity? nah nah nah, HEALTHY POSITIVE MASCULINITY
100% I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.
When giants cry it can rain.
it does NOT need to be applauded
People tend to seriously overlook this movie; for a movie about animals, it's incredibly human. More like this please, Disney.
399th like
Zootopia was definitely inspired by fables. Fables were a way to teach human life lessons through stories with animal characters. Often, people were replaced by animals with a certain character. The reason fables were created, was because the authors didn't want to *start beef* with anyone they know and the danger of execution (we're still talking about ancient times here) because of offense taken from higher ranked citizens of a town or country (patricians, kings etc.) so they used animals instead.
_cough_
:points to desklamp:
Disney reads this and be like: Sure
Also Disney: **makes Frozen 2 but the plot is exaclty the same as the first one and nobody learns anything**
Actually, this film also is incredibly animal. Replace the animals with humans, and the plot won’t survive. The variety of the story with the animals is essential, but it’s still relatable. Win win
My favorite tiny detail in Zootopia: when an animal “goes savage”, their eyes change. At the end, when Nick fakes going savage, his eyes remain the same!
Except the Jaguar (Mr. Manchas) because his eyes stayed the same as well but I never noticed that lol
@@wolfxstar I’m pretty sure his eyes changed-
I noticed that on first viewing and was like, "WTF how is he going savage? He can't be." Then I was proven right some seconds later.
That is actually what I used to determine Nick was faking it when I watched the movie I noticed how their eyes will either turn to silts or glow but Nick's didn't do either so I thought "Nah he is faking it" which I turned out to be right :)
I've noticed that too! Because of that I knew Nick was just acting
Not only does Nick call Judy out on her statements, he also does it in such a calm and reasonable way. Not everyone is so able to deal with being accused of being subhuman so well, especially when you get it ALL the time!
The tragedy is he's probably used to forcing down any signs of being angry or overly emotional, because if he showed that it would come off as aggressive or intimidating. Just like what happened in the press conference where everyone assumed she was being threatened because he looked upset for completely reasonable reasons.
He probably has to stay calm. After all, he just looked upset and the immediate assumption was that he did something to her. If he were more aggressive it would just "prove" their biases.
@@bumbabees near identical to biases against black and brown people, especially black people, who have to act calmly whenever upset or theyll be labeled as aggressive
@@saltwatersweets exactly. Im glad that people in the comments are recognizing this.
@@saltwatersweets I saw this as more focused towards how men are seemed as aggressive and violent.
I loved that, during the big reveal, it's the villain is this meek little sheep. You as the viewer are implicitly put in this 3rd person perspective, you're above the petty biases of these dumb animals. And then, in a brilliant moment, the frame of this twist says that YOU are just as susceptible. Teaches you that you need to work on yourself, no matter who you are.
Saving this for later
I really appreciate that they show Nick in this film as the stereotypical fox to begin with. It shows that “yes maybe you met a minority who fits the negative stereotype but that doesn’t mean that’s evidence that it was alright for you to have that assumption about them in the first place” Sometimes media focuses too much on “this person breaks the mold of their stereotype” which is Problematic because it’s still suggest the stereotype is true, it’s just this one person is an exception. Nick also shows that people can act like stereotypes due to feeling like they have no other choice, which provides people with “evidence” to their discrimination and thus more stereotypes and then the cycle continues.
Also, plenty of ethnicities act like that stereotype; yet they are excused due to their skin color. When someone who's not a minority does something criminal, he or she "made a mistake". When a minority does it, he or she "is a criminal". There is a distinct difference between those two labels.
@@misspriss2482 Exactly, I know plenty of people who are assholes but them being assholes has nothing to do with their race, gender or sexuality. Shitty human beings are shitty human beings. If you only look for patterns in minority groups then you’ll only find patterns in minority groups, in reality there’s negative traits in all people that’s just how it is.
I also feel like the "you're not like them" trope is much more damaging than just the separation of the "minority model predator" versus the "majority problematic predator." Not only does it separate a whole based off of its "good" and "bad" parts, but the existence of this "model predator" also reinforces the concept that civility and success can be attained (however easily or difficultly) and that those that do not end up becoming the model predator are really choosing to conduct themselves in the ways that they do, even if society, economic imbalances, and displacements of power are really what's to blame. Glorifying the individual for "defying the status quo" further reinforces bias and essentially blames the other party for their misfortunes, which I believe to be ultimately much more cruel.
theres also the fact that stereotypes come from somewhere, so at least a few people are bound to fit them. Theres also the idea that some stereotypes apply to most people in general. In the end, people shouldnt expect people to be stereotypes, cause they might or might not fit them
"Because a true apology is really just about acknowledging and taking accountability for one's mistake."
This changed my whole point of view and its amazing.💖
I taught my kids that an apology is a 3 point contract - I know I did something wrong, I understand why it was wrong, and now I know that I will try my best to not do it again. Saying sorry is just a making a noise if it is not underpinned by those principals.
I also just learned from this that apologizing isn't just saying "sorry", but actually... saying the things she said and what they said.
I have a hard time understanding social cues, so this actually helped teach me something.
Probably still gonna use "sorry" most of the time though, since it's faster and I can't think fast enough of another apology when its needed... :/
What are we meant to think Judy should apologise for? She was brought up to fear foxes (natural: foxes predate rabbits) but when she first meets Nick she's already seen him get bullied by an elephant and stand up to that bully, so even that early she knows that foxes aren't all bad. She previously didn't know what made predators savage, and, [15:15] having learnt this, she takes her first opportunity to tell Nick what she'd learnt.
@@rosiefay7283 Judy needs to apologize because things are rarely as simple as all good or all bad. Yes, Judy was friends with Nick and doesn't see him or even foxes in general as bad, but that doesn't mean that she doesn't have things that she needs to work on.
When trying to reason what would make the animals go savage, she turned to her implicit bias that their savageness is a result of an innate proneness to violence that, even without realizing it, she believes is characteristic of predators. She subconsciously discounts the notion that such a phenomenon could also occur in prey animals. And this assumption clearly hurts Nick; with Nick having had previous experiences with other animals ostracizing him under the similar belief that him being a fox innately makes him a danger.
Even if we assume that Judy's assumption is completely harmless, which it isn't, it is still undeniable that Nick was hurt by her comment and that means that she needs to apologize in order to mend that relationship. Just because she goes to him first, doesn't mean that there aren't wounds that need healing.
I was always told I was using the victim card and feeling sorry for myself and "not *actually* apologizing" when I acknowledged what I did wrong
A friend told me this once: “We may not consider ourselves to be racist or prejudice against people, but we are. Everyone has a slight prejudice against someone, you just don’t realize it.” It really made me think and consider what he said, and I completely understand what he meant.
Why does this not even have 100 likes yet? Your friend is smart lol I never even thought of that until I watched this video.
That’s pretty common sense, but statistics don’t lie.
Exactly! Whenever I realize I was prejudice against someone, I feel so bad and guilty that I'm tempted to apologize to said person. Even if they didn't know or it was years ago
Mistrust and generalization was a survival tactic...don't trust the cheeta or lion just because he is rolling around on his back in the sun...when he's hungry you will be on the menu. HOWEVER we also have a thinking and reaoning mind. We can separate someone's actions from their physical characteristics. A person who behaves badly is someone who behaves badly whatever he or she, may look like, or love, or worship. If we remember that we can change the world, I think.
“Everyone’s a little bit racist” - Avenue Q
“The mark of a good apology is less about, he’s crying again”
I love sentence like these that get cut off and flow into others 😂😂
Hey, flash, you wanna hear a joke?
“Gideon was a jerk who just happened to be a fox” I really like that quote actually,, How she’s aware that being a certain species doesn’t define really anything else about you. She’s aware that it’s your personal thoughts that cause you to be a certain way, and she knows that those personal thoughts aren’t automatically in EVERY fox’s biology, but the thoughts are rather developed over time by what you as an individual decide to listen to and act out.
yeah, her explicit bias is pretty low, and I appreciate that, but implicit bias still happens.
@@lemonqvartz well not really, in that scene, she even only took the spray to get her dad to calm down, but you can see she was genuinely not being biased
in some cases of implicit bias someones actions dont necessarily reflect who they are as a person, but some people just regurgitate what theyve been taught or what they grew up around without questioning if its right or wrong/forming their own opinions
@@2ndpartycrasher954 When she took it from her father, you're correct, she wasn't being biased, however, when she took it from her apartment after making the decision to leave it behind, she most certainly was.
i'm your 666th like!
Didn't even touch on the fact that the real villain the whole time was the most innocent seeming animal of them all. No matter how "good" or "nonviolent" they seem to be, anyone has the capability of being a terrible person.
Liking so everyone can see this
Her reasoning was based on her personal experiences but her nefarious actions played on the implicit bias of her society. I would be interested in an entire video in the villain dynamic in this movie. Her "nemesis" is her direct "superior" in every way. She's fascinating.
Anyone's capable of great good and great evil. Everyone, even the Fire Lord and the Fire Nation have to be treated like they're worth giving a chance
@@camila-mz3koAfter all, that is how we got the United Republic of Nations in TLOK.
Because it'd mean that BurnLootMurder could also have some terrible people. And frankly, the presenters seem way too PC to even acknowledge that it could be possible.
“Go back to the forest, predator”
“I’m from the savannah”
This scene reminds me of the amount of times I’ve been told “go back to China” or other racist names/phrases. I’m not even Chinese, but it doesn’t even matter because it is no excuse to be racist, it’s still sinophobic whether i’m Chinese or not because they had the intention and it is disgusting.
@Areum god I hate colourism
The 'casual' racism of Australia isn't so casual. Deeply angry and distressed at my nation and sorry for the hurt done to you.
@@classicambo9781 people see Australia as so much better than America but it’s barely better; we just have better gun control and we handled the pandemic better. The racism here is so bad, a black person was recently shot to death in Brisbane by the police - but don’t apologise because it’s not your fault unless you’ve done it yourself
I’m Korean, but I was born and raised in America. It really hurts when people say “Ching Chong” or “Go back to China”. I also have Russian friends and German friends, and everyone keeps referring to them as communists and nazis.
Not that for immigrants it isn't their country, bc of course it is, but when people are trying to insult me by saying this, they are insinuating I'm not a citizen even though Puerto Ricans are citizens of the US.
I DO find it ironic that Judy was a victim of bias, herself, when she was a child....she wanted to break the norm and be a police officer, because she believed the mantra that "anyone can be anything." Her parents scoffed at this notion and said "no, you just need to be a bunny. Be a carrot farmer. Settle for what is safe and comfortable. And even when she gets to the police academy, the polar bear instructor ALSO says ""Just QUIT....you are not worthy of this. Give up." but she is determined to fulfill her childhood dream of being a police officer, and eventually, through hard work and perseverance, she achieves this dream. She breaks the bias, so to speak. But then, Judy meets Nick, and because of her upbringing and life experiences, she INSTANTLY does not trust Nick because he is a fox, and she has been raised to believe that foxes are untrustworthy and malicious and bad. And she even eventually starts to trust Nick and they become friends....and she's even willing to consider Nick as her new partner. But then, when she falls back into the implicit bias, Nick calls her out on this....and I respect Judy because not only is she willing to consider that her personal beliefs are wrong (i.e. when she thought it was the wolves who were Night Howlers and it turned out to be toxic flowers making the animals go savage) she is willing to sincerely apologize to Nick and admit that she was wrong. She was willing to take responsibility for her mistakes and make them right.
I would have said she was going after nick because he acted suspicious
Yes! Amazing point! Judy is part of that spectrum too!
@@soirema Thank you. :) And thank you again, for commenting....I was looking for this comment the other day to incorporate into my film critique of this movie and I couldn't find it. Responding to your comment helped me find it and now, my article will be stronger.
@@wubbsy when judy meets nick, he's just walking to the ice cream shop. what gets judy's attention is nick almost getting ran over by a truck, which isn't even nick's fault, as the truck seems to be coming out of a back alley (which judy doesn't notice). the one driving the truck is actually one of the rams involved in bellwether's scheme, and he was actually acting more suspicious than nick in that moment.
I think it shows that members of minority groups also have implicit bias, it’s not just majority groups. Just because you experience discrimination yourself doesn’t mean you aren’t discriminating against others in a way you don’t realize.
Omg so that's why "oh wow you're autistic? I couldn't tell!" Feels like such a backhanded compliment
Exactly, it's basically saying "wow, you don't fit into my stereotyped idea of what someone who's autistic is, I'm impressed".
it’s sad that people feel the need to say that😔
It's like saying "Wow, you're strong for a woman" or "You came from this poor part of town and you're in college. Good for you!" It's a backhanded compliment implying that what you are doing is the exception to the rule of your skin color, class, and so on.
@@ww.DuzaFizz yeah, though from what I’ve seen people have stronger stereotypes to autism and other mental irregularities than is realistic. I mean, to an extent their right(sometimes) but the extreme is what gets talked about and therefore expected.
Yeah... I get that as a trans woman frequently. "oh, you're trans? Wow, I couldn't even tell!"
What makes it worse is that I can't shake off that there's an unspoken end to the sentence they're not saying (I couldn't even tell... That you're not a real woman)
these two just taught me more about implicit bias in 25 minutes than school has taught me in 16 years. fascinating.
Same, I’m just now hearing about implicit bias.
Schools are not supossed to teach you this... then in fact.. will create a bias in everyone... if a school taught a certain topic about a certain race it will create a bias on the people that are being taught such thing
8 years in and the word has never been mentioned
hear hear! i am in year 8 and primary AND secondary school let the kids be racist to me. (I am asian)
The first sence reminded me of being black
Honestly I think that press conference is also very telling of how media plays a part in bias. I mean aside from the photo's in the press conference switching to muzzled predators to really emphasise the points Judy is making through her own implicit bias, it also falls straight into just wild inaccurate claims: "Officer Hopps, were you just threatened by that predator?" "No, he's my friend." "We can't even trust our own friends?!"
Like yes, Judy's implicit bias came through... and instead of calling her out on it, instead of letting the predator species among the crowd speak up, the prey species just run with the facts solely to place fear in their audience, further dividing what was already a fractured group throughout the plot of the movie. Kinda warning us that as we unlearn our biases we also have to really try and find the actual truth in the media, because media so often twists things to fit their own bias.
and they keep trying to keep an old idea alive even though it doesn't make sense. the whole "preditors were consumed with blood lust" and thus their just going "savage" because of it. and no one really argues that it doesn't make sense cause it's something that common old fact, so no one would bother to fact check it.
Yeah, if your being payed for controversy your going to cause it.
Kinda sounds like most of 2020 to me...
Literally politics, atleast in America.
Sensationalism is a very big part of media even today just look at the coverage of everything, from protests, police, to covid-19
As a woman with an obvious disability (I use a power wheelchair), I have also gotten the "you are so articulate" "compliment" so many times, or people are surprised that I have 2 Masters degrees. It was worse when I was in middle and high school when I was literally treated like a young child because people just assumed I had an intellectual disability, so I think it's slowly getting better. However, I guess my only criticism is that many times when diversity and especially bias are discussed, disability seems to be the last group included in the discussion if at all. That being said, as also a white person raised in a progressive household, I'm sure that I've been guilty of similar microaggressions, and my friends probably did what I did and let it slide because everyone hates conflict and confrontation.
Steven Hawking 2.0
@@-Scrapper- LOL, thanks!
Having two masters degree in general is a surprising thing that you should be proud of. By your comment, it almost sounds as if people should not react to someone having two masters degree as something impressive.
Though, I guess it all depends on the level of "impressed" they are and how much of a "and you did all that in a wheelchair too!" they add
@@androkguz Thanks, that's a good point. It does depend on the tone, although I could also be reading too much into the tone, misinterpreting being impressed as surprised.
I’ve also been subject to something similar myself, though not for a disability. Let’s just say that where I’m from, I’m from a non-visible minority that’s disliked heavily throughout the country. To the point that some people, to my face, were complaining about said group KNOWING I was part of that group and went “Don’t worry, you’re one of the good ones.”, and kept going. That. That comment was more insulting than all the “backwards, dumb, racist, and uneducated” thrown my group’s way.
"If we're going to give each other a seat at the table, we first have to recognize that there are people who aren't at the table, and stop buying into the myth that they're happy to not be at the table." I let out an audible woooah to that one. Very well said.
Thank you so much! Glad you're enjoying the show :)
Puerto Rico / Cuba
&
D.C. Capitol
There's a line from Fine Print by The Stupendium that I think pairs nicely with that comment. "And you'll be grateful for seats at the table. though it dips at one end- and the bench is unstable." Bc although we must make sure everyone has a seat at the table, we also have to recognise whether or not everyone has equitable seats at the table.
@@Cxste11xn that's amazing
@@Cxste11xn great addition of depth!
"Her nose is twitching, she IS scared" - Bully weasel
And her nose twitches when she sees Nick for the first time, too at 2:03.
Oh dang I didn’t even notice that
O.o
Huh, good eye.
Damn
The weasels name was Travis
"If we're going to give each other a seat at the table we first have to recognize that there are people who aren't at the table and stop buying into the myth that they're happy to not be at the table"
Nailed it.
It's like they say: "If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."
But who is supposedly happy to not be at the table? How can that be? I don't believe it; who doesn't want to be at the table?
Doesn't everyone want to be at the "table"? What even is "table"? I assume it refers to ultimate privilege and happiness? For Americans -- the American Dream?
I think it's meant to imply a negotiation table rather than a dinner table -- undertaking things together so everyone's needs are met rather than some kind of unfocused kumbayah moment.
So true! He nailed it!
But at the same time, we also have to recognize that there are people who absolutely don't belong at the table and should be refused a seat there too (The Tolerance Paradox).
What makes a story about implicit bias told with animals so great is that it can be about ANY implicit bias: Bias because of race, sex, disability, sexual/romantic orientation, occupation, age, etc.
For some reason, the hardest thing to get into people's heads, is that how you treat someone can and will affect how they act. For example, the way the 'prey' muzzle up Nick and don't realise nor care that they just helped put the idea in Nick's head that, the only way people will ever see him as, is manipulative, cunning and sly, just bcuz he was born a fox. So he played up to that, why bother trying to change how people view you when you can just play the part. This then 'confirmed' what the other scouts was in the right, bcuz obviously they were correct in their prejudice but were really what caused it in the first place. That's a hard message for people to fully realise bcuz many don't like to admit they are the one's at fault...
Soooo freaking true!
The prejudiced ones played part by doing those, _and_ ones who play along also played part by reinforcing it
There is a play called andorra that reminded me of this implicit bias. It is about a boy who everyone thinks is a Jew during the Second World War and they all keep on treating him that way with false friendliness and their own projected flaws at them, which were actually their very own flaws and not giving him fair chances based on that.
The boy himself internalises these prejudices and starts acting according to these as well and thinks the reason nobody likes is because he is a Jew, etc..
Now there comes the twist: he wasn’t actually one. It was a lie his father made up, to hide the fact that he had an affair with a woman outside of town, while also making himself look like a hero for taking in a jewish boy. The mother even comes to visit to the town trying to explain the whole situation along with the father to him, but before she can explain it she gets killed by the locals and everyone shifts the blame on the boy again. And the boy doesn’t fight it anymore at that point, and even as his father and adoptive mother desperately try to explain it to him and everyone else. They just don’t want to believe it and think it’s really just a dishonest way of protecting the boy from the approaching gestappo and spoiler alert: the boy gets shot by them, his father hangs himself in the aftermath, his half sister loses her mind about it and his adoptive mother... I honestly forgot what her fate was again, but it wasn’t a good one as well there and the rest of the town was none the wiser about anything at all about what just happened there and keeps on living their own lives.
@@revimfadli4666 do we blame a piece of clay for being the shape of its mold? Does it seem rational to expect a different result?
@@somerandomgal3915 Damn- That's brutal-
When Judy apologises to Nick, she stands in the dark of the tunnel while he stands in the light. And after she is forgiven, she walks out into the light with him.
I never noticed that until this video and I think it's excellent symbolic lighting choice.
lighting is convenient cliché
@@karamjeetkaur1474 lighting is an art in itself and requires dedicated artists in that field...
@@LannasMissingLink thats true, but isn't it coincidence that Judy found nick at the right time?
@@karamjeetkaur1474 plus one sin?
When the scene starts Nick enters a dark place and she starts her apology in the light. The most emotional and sincere portion of her apology occurs as she steps deeper into the dark and as he listens to it he starts in the dark with her and approaches the light. When he has decided to accecpt her apology and turns to teasing her he steps/has stepped into the full light and when they reach a moment of connection and accecption of what has occured they both in the light together.
It's a really well played scene PLUS THEY GO UNDER A BRIDGE and ya know that's a whole great metaphor played out as well. As an animator yes, lighting is SO deeply thought out in animation because it creates moods. It's thought out in live action films as well. There's whole theories and classes on film development that covers it. Often times it's even discussed during the concept art and storyboarding stages because it's so key to setting up and supporting the execution of a scene.
All that to say awesome catch OP and I also loved the symbolism haha!!
Dude crying is the most precious thing I've ever seen in my life. These dudes are cool, I'd invite them to the cookout.
It made me feel better because this movie made me cry so hard 😭 like thank god i'm not alone in that
Lmao same😂
Cookout sure. I was thinking 'wedding'. These are the people you want around wishing you well at that kind of event, not that aunt you "have" to invite because she's going to call your family and complain how "she wasn't even thought of" at SOMEONE ELSE'S Day.
As a 25 year old black man and my parents having to sit me down at 15 and explain that people will look at you differently when Trayvon Martin was killed I want to thank you guys.
What's scary about this movie and their take on it is that it made me realize that I actually do have implicit bias against African American males, more specifically when they raise their voices. I had a pretty scary experience during a paintball game one day due to a big misunderstanding, and two African American males were the perpetrators. They were permanently banned from the field, but I have more recently begun to realize that even though it happened long ago, it still affects me even today. Just recently two African American males working for DoorDash came in to the chinese restaurant I had placed a takeout order from, and when they started getting frustrated and muttering to themselves, I could feel my heart start to race, even though I wasn't in any danger at all!
It's as they said, biases are fed to you, layer by layer by layer, and in order to UNDO that, you can't just coast through your life thinking you've reached enlightenment because of x reason, you have to consciously work at it.
My biggest fear is that one day, I may unintentionally say something extremely harmful to someone, and I'll either lose their trust, or they'll end up getting mad enough to put me in a dangerous scenario.
What do you suggest I should do about this?
@@justalpha9138 hey heads up that no one owes you a course on how to be anti-racist, and unloading like this under a guy's comment who did not ask for questions is asking for some pretty big emotional work from someone who did not offer it. I'd suggest looking up TH-cam videos on How To Be Anti-Racist, they'll explain better than I can
The “congratulations you’re not committing hate crimes” really reminds me of how my mom has been since I came out as a lesbian. I know they’re very different but like if there’s a show and someone disowns their child or kicks them out of the house for not being straight my mom smiles and literally goes “see look I’m a cool mom!” And like i know she means well but the bar is so incredible low that her not disowning me means she’s like this all loving thing and it’s frustrating
yeah. u might wanna show her this video
I GET THIS. My mom has come a long way since I came out as trans 14 almost 15 years ago. But she still has a long way to go and she sometimes acts like she's the be all end all of an accepting parent because she isn't disowning me or denying me of my identity, only showing disappointment when it comes to it (like saying things like "Well it's what YOU want" when I told her I finally got to start T and then immediately changing the subject because she didn't want to talk about it when I was extremely excited to share this information with her). It's sad though because we live in a world where I have to also downplay how much that hurts because "at least I don't have it as bad as some people" or else people throw that at me any way.
@@DannyThaTranny I hate that kinda response of "well, at least you're not doing as bad as X person". It negates your feelings and kinda makes you feel like shit, and even guilty because you're complaining about your pain (something like a survivor's guilt, or a "I have it better" guilt) and also, hey, how bout we recognize that we both have it bad and we're both aching and both situations should improve instead of lowering the bar?
@@nahuelma97 exactly! It seriously just makes it hurt even worse knowing that with most people, if I talk about the fact that it hurts me when my mom blatantly tries to avoid the subject of anything to do with my transition someone literally is 90% of the time going to say "at least she didn't kick you out/disown you when she found out back then".
@@DannyThaTranny I'm sorry your mom changed the subject when you wanted to share your excitement with her. I'm excited for you!
I love Judy's growth, she started out with the "I don't see color" mindset until she enters Zootopia where bunnies aren't the majority and it exposed how very small minded she was until she was properly educated by a friend outside of her race. Something I wish I could see more often in real life.
I love how much the left-wing racists have convinced people that being color blind is racist. Absolutely insane.
The bit about Nick adhering to the stereotypes because "people decided they were true so I may as well follow" made me think about a thought I'd had with Harry Potter. In the books, it showed Fred and George literally boo at every child sorted into Slytherin. These 11 year olds come to school for the first time, excited to learn magic, and from the moment they are sorted, the other 3/4 of their peers decide they are dark or evil just because of their sorting or family name. Then people wonder why so many Slytherins did turn to "the dark side".
Ah yes, the four houses of hogwarts: the MCs, side character, smart side character, and racism
Right?? Harry essentially begged the hat not to put him in Slythern because he met Malfoy, a total prick, who wanted to be in Slythern, and was told the house was full of people just like him.
indeed
One of the flavors of kids is evil?!
The whole concept of the Houses makes no sense to me. You're being evaluated and judged when you're 11 years old (who at that age has such an emotionally stable mind or traits that are so defined?)
Then you are grouped together for the rest of your school years with people who are just like you. Why? Wouldn't it make far more sense to group the kids together depending on their strengths and weaknesses?
For example, the slackers and easy-going types with the ambitious and hard-working kids - so that one can help the other with managing their workload and then the others can help show them that work is not everything or help them in other ways in which each group struggles.
If I had to include the houses at all, I would not make the children's placement permanent, but they would change houses yearly (maybe?) depending on what they need to learn the most at that time.
I just love to see Alan emotional!! It really is endearing, agree with Jon!! As someone who was repeatedly told not to cry as a child, I just find it refreshing to see someone that is not afraid to be vulnerable. Thanks guys!!!! 🤗
Crying is great! Your head may hurt for a bit, but it's good to let the emotions flow. 😄
So do I. If I have sons when I have kids I want them to know that it’s OK for them to cry if they need to and express there emotions. I have very little patience for macho culture.
One of the things I feel a lot of people miss is that Judy is subjected to implicit and explicit bias as well. She's assumed to be to small and weak to accomplish anything, because she's a bunny, and all bunny's do is work on their farms and have lots of kids. I mean come on, there's the obvious coding of "cute" as some form of slur or derogatory way to refer to rabbits.
Because of the way she is used to being stereotyped and knows how that feels, she attempts to avoid saying the explicit things against other species, and considers herself a very accepting rabbit who appreciates the diversity of Zootopia. If you were trying to draw real world parallels to this, Judy is also apart of a racial minority, however, *this does not mean she is immune to implicit bias against others.*
Just something I don't see people talking about much, thought I'd add it.
Omg THIS I WAS JUST THINKING THIS SAME WAY
anyways late but liking this alot B)
Kinda like a white feminist forgetting to realize that they may face sexism but they can also take part in racism
@@CupOfTaeWithAKookie Kinda! The metaphors of Zootopia are very muddled and not perfectly executed, so I was thinking more in line of it being somewhat equivalent to Judy being a POC, but still capable of being tacitly racist towards other minorities.
Again, it's kinda hard to pin down the intent though, so it's all very open to interpretation.
@@ithinkflutterawesome6511 That's true, I agree it can be interpreted in many different ways, which is honestly the beauty of it. But personally I thought of white feminism cuz of the connotations that come with being a bunny or a herbivore in their world. They're seen as cute, small, fragile, and incapable of certain jobs like doing a dangerous case in the police force. It reminds me a lot of sexism and how women couldn't work a lot of jobs before. But in the past and even now, a lot of feminists overlooked people of color. America gave rights to white women before they gave rights to black women, and a good amount of white feminists still held prejudice towards people of color. So Judy despite being a minority who is often looked down on still holding some internalized prejudice towards Nick as a fox, reminded me of that.
I think its more that judys thing is that she's facing like sexism and not racism, because like thars like the one that makes the most sense for her while storyline and how she's treated i feel like, i dont really feel like it makes sense for how she's treated being because she's a poc, and it still is about the same thing though that just because like you face predjudice doesn't mean you can't be predjudiced
The best thing about the first scene that a lot of people overlook is that Nick and his partner (when he's conning the ice cream parlor) are completely different species and anyone who cared enough to learn about other "cultures" would have seen through them instantly.
i saw this but I always just assumed it was intentionally wrong for the 'cute fox is a tough guy' joke, but seeing it like this makes SO much sense!
YUUUUUUP. I studied fennec foxes briefly as a kid, and I enjoy learning about animals in general, so I was confused when I first saw the ice cream parlor scene. I kinda shrugged it off as “oh, he’s probably adopted”, but oh boy, lemme tell ya, I felt pretty vindicated as soon as Hopps started putting the pieces together.
I hadn't thought of it that way before
You could argue that they thought Nick was a stepfather / adoptive father or perhaps had fennec fox wife so kiddo is a hybrid, but honestly my guess would be that the elephants just didn't care. Judy may have thought that, though.
Yeah, but like another commenter said, blended families can happen. Nick could've been an adoptive father.
Zootopia had enough of a task breaking down racism and biases into chunks small enough for kids to understand. I think going into why some families (even biological ones) look so different would have been a bit much
"A real articulate fella"
Is the equivalent to
"You don't sound like a black person"
....
So true
I've gotten that comment so much! Along with, "You don't (Why don't you) talk/act black.(?)" I just kinda sit there, cause I never know what to say-
Reminds me of how someone got mad that a certain character from this one anime "didn't sound black", but what they didn't know was that THE VOICE ACTOR WAS BLACK.
I get that comment too, but the weird thing is, even black people say I don't talk/ act black. It weirds me out cuz I'm just like "how do you talk/act like a black person?"
@@camakathekilla2347 EXACTLY! Like what does "talking black" even sound like? And how do you "act black"? Like a person is a person. You can't predict or justify a persons actions or words based on race. The concept of acting/ talking "black" doesn't even make any sense.
This is such an interesting idea. I'm a half black, half white man that grew up in MS. The line between implicit and explicit racism can get blurry when people are actually taught explicit racism under the guise of implicit racism.
I've met a girl who genuinely believed black people shouldn't be allowed on money, but couldn't begin to express why she believed it so deeply because she was taught that her family's barely suppressed explicit racism was actually not racism at all since it wasn't explicit.
It's amazing how the human brain can rationalize.
Thank god the USA is receiving immigrants from all over holy shit you OG USA people are weird asf
I instinctively went from “fox repellent” to “gun/taser” .. kinda sad.
Right? It's all-too-relevant.
Same
Well, since it’s a repellent, it’s more like pepper spray, but gun/taser does work... taser more then gun since it’s non-lethal.
Guns and pepper spray aren't race specific. It's inferred that fox spray works against foxes. Suspect forces an officer to shoot him/her, it doesn't matter what race they are.
Oh fuck...
I am literally watching a movie, while having a history lesson, while having free therapy. This is the content I look for. Thank you
LMAO IKR ITS EDUCATING AND FUN
“Ok. Your not as bad as the klan. Congratulations!”
That killed me more than it probably should’ve
I'm not one for expressing emotions when watching something but that seriously brought out laughter. Especially since there is an actual joke going around saying, " You're not racist!? CONGRATZ!" not being racist isn't a title and shouldn't be done to receive an award or entitlement it really makes me laugh
@@itzax6kita6x68 you shouldn’t be rewarded for the bare minimum. So yeah. Being rewarded for not being racist is stupid
👏 CONGRATULATIONS 👏 YOU’RE NOT A PIECE OF SHIT
that's the line that makes me tempted to send this to my dad.
@@KittenLove536 what the hell did your dad do?
A big part of this is that Judy thinks since SHE is dealing with a prejudice in being a rabbit, that she is somehow immune to being a bigot herself.
A victim thinks they are immune to being a perpetrator
I definitely have a lot of problems in terms ofimplicit bias that I hold as a white woman, but it's possible not figuring out until fairly recently that I'm gay and also autistic may have helped me to recognize that I obviously can't just say whatever due to also being minoritized in other ways... at least that's my explicit belief that comes naturally
That bit you guys did about apologies really spoke to me. I think I’m probably gonna use that in my every day life. Keep up the good work!!!
Thanks fangirl! Just don't apologize to us for not telling all your friends about our channel. That was weird. Tell all your friends about our channel! That was desperate. I'm sorry that you feel that we're weird and desperate.
Nailed it.
@@CinemaTherapyShow Easy there, big fella. Easy. Haha!
Another thing to look out for is "I'm sorry if-" apologies shouldn't be conditional
Um, um
Why. Apologizing can be really good
But in a lot of these people need thicker skin. I cant control how you feel. I can only control my actions and I dont know what will bother you(cant read minds). Like they said about the golden rule treat others like you want to be treated. So if Im doing that or trying to do that and something offends you. Im not going to apologize for that. She didnt betray that.
@@TerryAVanguard That is true. I also have offended people without meaning to before, and they were not situations like this where Judy offends Nick. I've offended people by saying things that are genuinely not offensive-- now sometimes, I have offended people by saying things that are offensive but a lot of times I have not. And the whole "people need to get a thicker skin" actually resonates with me and I agree with it. That being said, I solely agree with it in certain, very specific contexts. I do not agree with it, for instance, when a person gets offended by "small" offenses or "micro" aggressions that were misogynistic, sexist, racist, etc.
I don't why but when that pig told the cheetah "Go back to the forest" and she goes "I'm from the Savanah!" I just started crying. That ignorant hate just hit me a little too close to home.
same I just got flashbacks to when I get told to go back to Mexico. even as a kid when I first watched this I still got sad hearing that
@@JemariaW it really sucks. the first time I got told that, i had a breakdown. now I've been told it lot, being in the south, so I can just joke about it, but it still kinda hurts
Its so discouraging to hear the hate AND ignorance rolled into one, the dismissal of my right to be here AND the erasure of the culture that shaped my existence. I remind people someone in your line came here for the same reason as us all so be grateful to them. Otherwise, sit and spin on it.
Being from Oklahoma I’ve seen a Native American being told go back to Mexico. I was so happy when they said “go back to Europe and give Me my land back.”
@@brandonporter8509 That person is a legend and where can I get their confidence.
I showed this movie to my parents (they’re Mexican immigrants) and they were chatty and asking questions the whole movie but when we got to *that* scene it was silence. You could feel just so much resentment and anger for years for living that exact moment with so many people.
What scene
@@sebaschan-uwu “oh so there’s a THEM now”
You being Mexican ain’t really telling me anything. Mexico has its own very deep racism so what type of Mexican are you? Indio or blanco o negro?
i showed this to my grandma earlier today. and she was silent for a moment before going, "You know. I'm thankful that you always have access to this sort of education."
This really ended up helping my grandma out some too. she'd also say that her colored neighbors were very articulate. She stopped saying it entirely, along with a few other things. Thanks for making these, seriously ♥️
You are so welcome! Please tell your grandmother hello for us! - Jonathan
@@CinemaTherapyShow I do agree that prejudice can be subtle and hurtful, but this Implicit Bias concept has a dark side. It makes EVERYONE biased. For example, just as Judy unintentionally hurt Nick during her speech by the implication that predators are dangerous, you two hurt me with the implication that I am racist at my core! What a terrible thing to say about so many people, and yet you meant no harm.
The problem with the concept of Implicit Bias is that it causes the person who believes it to be Implicitly Biased toward everyone else. Surely as a therapist you can see the harm in believing that everyone around you assumes you’re a racist at heart.
If then, like Nick, a person comes to believe that no matter what they do they will be judged as a racist couldn’t they decide to be the best fox or racist they can be? This line of thinking is not good. Prejudice is wrong, but forcing people to be immersed in the idea that they always carry prejudice towards others isn’t any better.
@@michaelrizzo4174 im not entirelysure what youre trying to say but if you mean implicit bias implies that you are racist then you missed the point..
@@tink6225 They specifically said that everyone is implicitly biased until they get ‘woke’. So if you find the woke movement distasteful and prefer to just treat people the way you want to be treated, well, they said you’re just a little bit better than the KKK. Really? I’d say not committing murder in general makes you a lot better than them, but apparently that’s not good enough. In addition to not killing people or just being a kind person we also need to be on board with the idea that we have even more racism to overcome.
Where does it end? At what point is our behavior acceptable enough to not be considered ‘Implicitly Biased’?
@@michaelrizzo4174 being implicitly biased isn't a completely horrible thing lmaoo and nobody is implying that it is. it's just something in the back of our minds. not the same thing as racism but not a completely good thing either. literally all you have to do is acknowledge when you're being implicitly biased
15:48 "A true apology is not about getting a certain reaction from the other person." The rest of the quote is great but this made me completely stop and rethink all the little unnecessary apologies I give every day on order to subconsciously protect myself from rejection...this really is free therapy.
I also do that a lot....
And that is so true!
The detail I always can't help but notice in the press conference scene is how the predator reporters are clearly shocked by Judy's words
Yesss!!! I rewatched it over and over again to catch all the different expressions. It's interesting to me that the tiger in the back doesn't seem that bothered.
@@HybridMiranda ME TOO!!!! i appreciated the details so much
*Oh crap, now I have to rewatch the scene, thank you-*
One thing I've always loved about this scene, where he forgives her, is her literally stepping into the light.
One of the things I love about Zootopia is how it handles intersectionality. As well as the pred/prey dynamic, there's the issue of size. The prejudice Judy faces in becoming a cop stems from her size, not her diet. And the villain tries to get Judy on-side by saying, more than once, "Us little guys gotta stick together".
It's telling that the missing otter is given low priority as a case: not just a predator, but also small. And Judy being willing to look for him could be perceived as an act of solidarity from one small mammal to another. I know that other reviewers and commentators have said that if the carnivore/herbivore conflict can represent race, then the large/small prejudice could represent gender, or even disability.
These different prejudices play out in Zootopia all at the same time, as well as addressing differences between city/country, local/newcomer, rich/poor, famous/unseen, and probably more. Most films, even very serious, explicit stories about the evils of prejudice, would only address one or two of these issues in a single work. Zootopia does an amazing job of demonstrating that you can't discuss any social situation in isolation. That life is, as Judy says, messy.
It's also interesting to note that Mr. Otterton is classified as a predator, and therefore dangerous, despite the fact that they eat primarily fish, this world's most legal and ethical source of meat and no danger to any of the sapient animals here. But the prey animals don't care.
Fantastic take
@monny287 you my friend, are excellent at taking the words in my head, and putting them into text
I'd really like to recommend The Dragon Prince here, it does a great job of addressing prejudice, especially in season 1. When a human and an elf from opposite sides of a race war have to work together, things are going to be rocky. The human intentionally plays up elven stereotypes in an attempt to scare away an antagonist, but only succeeds in hurting his elven ally's feelings. The elf regularly spouts stereotypes when forced to disguise herself as human, making herself into an exaggerated caricature. The elf offers the human a drink of red liquid and he automatically assumes it to be blood. When the elf is complimenting the human, she describes him as "different" from other humans. The human, in turn, describes her as "a good elf". It's a very interesting exploration of bias!
Yeah, as a minority, I wish we would address minorities hating others. Koreans to Chinese, Chinese to Koreans, etc.
I think it’s beautiful that Alan cries so freely and unapologetically.
I'm just like him lol I cry at every Disney or Pixar movie
i was about to say that! I love how expresive he is! 🥰
Me too. When he cries, i start to cry.
It's what drew me to this channel actually, he cries so beautifully, which may be an odd thing to say but it's so authentic and real
I think a big thing they addressed well was the fact that she thought that since she, as a bunny, had been discriminated against, she can’t do the same. Someone that is a minority, will do something and not think it’s wrong because “I have experienced discrimination, so I would definitely recognize when I’m being discriminatory.” She doesn’t recognize her bias that predators are violent, because in her perspective, bias is people being condescending rather than afraid.
To me, it feels a lot like the difference between the discrimination some people show to women and the discrimination shown to people based on race. Your thoughts?
@@mathnerd3364 It's certainly an interesting difference. On the one hand, I don't know too many women who would say they have been discriminated against because people are afraid of them - typically, it's the exact opposite issue. It is therefore tempting to say most discrimination they face comes in the form of condescension or exclusion. Conversely, many people in ethnic or sexual minorities do experience fear from their majority counterparts and have faced anger, violence, and exclusion based on this. If I may step back to what women face, however, I would like to point out that while they don't have the exact same issues as other minorities, they do experience violence and harassment as well to a far greater extent than males for a variety of reasons.
My personal experience as a woman of mixed heritage has been that while racial discrimination and gender discrimination have different causes and some differences in how they present, both groups are likely to experience violence, abuse, patronization, exclusion, financial disparity, and many other issues. We shouldn't be condescending to one of these groups and say that the other has it worse when really they both have significant challenges to navigate. Telling a group that their problems are comparably negligible will only serve to pit that group against the other minority, when we should all be standing together as a united front. Sorry for the essay; I was just very interested in what you and the original poster had to say!
@@kipandren One of the things I hate about society is that it does tend to pit groups against each other based on differences we can't control. Watching Zootopia, I can say that there have been times my internal bias has come up, not because of anything the person did, but because of situations that happened to me in the past. For example, I don't get in elevators alone with men. I check over my shoulder when exiting a grocery store. I don't answer if men talk to me when I'm alone. I'd like to say that it's entirely unmotivated by race and ethnicity, but I don't want to make that declaration too confidently. I'm not sure where the line between protecting myself and being biased against others lies.
@@mathnerd3364 That's very insightful! I think the first step in moving forward to a more open mindset is being willing to take a hard look at our own biases; we can't make changes until we recognise the need to change. I will admit that I have done the same things you have shared and not always been the most trusting of men. For my personal situation, I think a lot of it comes from being taught from a very early age that men are potentially dangerous, justifiably or not. It's not always easy to catch myself doing it, but I believe it's the second thought, the one where I acknowledge my bias and move beyond it, that is most important. It's having the humility to recognise that we are not perfect and the resolve to improve ourselves that makes a difference in the world.
Yep; and this behavior can easily be turned against other minorities, too, which sucks.
"This is the scene where we meet Nick." And Doug. No one ever wonders why he yells at the fox for just walking across the street.
If Judy had followed the truck, the movie would have been Twenty-two minutes long. IMPLICIT BIAS.
Can we talk about his „I love this man“ and their really healthy friendship? That‘s so adorable and awesome.
I love their relationship, perfect bromance
Definitely
I strive to have a friendship like this to be honest
It's amazing
My dream is to become a pediatric therapist. I have ADHD, and I was starting to lose faith in my ability to go through with my dream (I'm only in high school and already struggling with math and science), but you have inspired me to keep going. I want this knowledge, this ability to help people. It's my dream, and I'm determined to achieve it. I want to help kids get the help that I wish I could have had.
YOU CAN DO IT! Seriously, If Jonathan can become a therapist, anybody (with effort and a little luck) can do it. And if Alan can do literally anything useful, that should give all of humanity hope. Keep us in the loop! We want to know how you're doing!
This is so inspirational! I have ADHD too, and several other mental conditions and didn’t do that well with school but I really want to get myself into some sort of organization helping people with mental illnesses. Wish you success!
Fuck... ME TOO BRO. You’re not alone. Push forward! We got this 💋❤️
Same here. I've got ADHD and a bunch of other stuff that makes life difficult, and I want to help people through their problems and difficulties. I try my best helping my friends through their problems, or just being someone to listen. Apparently I'm kind of good at it cuz all my friends are still here
I want to be there for people.
I got ADHD + a lot of other things as well, I finished my education as an animator, all I can say is, if you truly want something, work hard and do your best! :)
I remember when I first saw this movie it reminded me so many times about my experiences being at Texas A&M( a predominately white school) as a young black man. Recently I had a heart to heart with a friend who admitted that they used to be a racist until they met me at school and we became friends. They started to question all the things they thought and it ate away at them that they believe in things that were against me. For those that may have strong biases about certain groups, have a conversation with them, sit down and talk to them, you be surprised how and how good of friends you can become.
Nathan, I am in the same position as you were in those days. I am currently an international student studying at Texas A&M University and honestly not the most desirable kind of international student to be in US (Iranian). So, I am feeling and facing on a daily basis both implicitly and explicitly that there is a discrimination and rasism.... Mostly implicitly these days but still I can feel it from even a simple eye contact or even a face expression after revealing my nationality.....I am suffering from this so much that the last year of my graduate student is now getting the worst year in my whole life. Even if I sit down and talk to people and try to be kind to them and be friends I am still that "exceptional" or "articulate" person from my people!
@@amiraliselahi5610 This is a late reply but spending some time with people who you strongly identify with may help you reset your self worth and value. You don't deserve the trials of distrust and exclusion. I hope things have improved for you or at least haven't gotten worse.
I always loved that the creators made the decision to make Judy bubbly and girly, instead of just a stereotypical female cop archetype. You don’t see it much (I can think of Amy from B99) and it was nice to see that trope being broken (Especially because my personality is very similar). Growing up, I always felt that in order to be taken seriously, I had to toughen personality and act rougher then I naturally was, when in truth, I am a small, girly-tomboy who has a bubbly personality and likes cute things lol And that shouldn’t discredit me in the eyes of anyone else. I don’t have to be someone I’m not in order to be taken seriously.
”We’re not super qualified to discuss another persons experience”
One minute and fifteen seconds in I’m already loving this. Everyone should live by this.
legit when they started saying that I automatically clicked the like button
You have no idea how many times I heard the opposite from people I knew. They were very much the kind of people who tried to force their view on others.
By being impartial with an experience you are objectively better suited to judge it reasonably.
And this wasn't even the original direction Zootopia was going to go in. It was going to be SO much darker. Great video!
What was the original plot?
@@sweettea735 the original if I remember correctly Nick would have been the main character and starting at the age of 5 the ‘predators’ would get collars that administer an electric shock every time a ‘predator’ would experience a strong emotion. This was made to make the ‘prey’ feel safer despite the fact the ‘predators’ where often taken advantage of due to the collars. There was a lot more to the story but that’s the main bit. I think getting rid of the collars was a good idea because the movie without it ended up putting a heavier emphasis on implicit bias which is rarely talked about when it comes to teaching kids about racism.
@@paigehanika8701 wow. That is way worse than I thought for a children’s movie.
@@sweettea735 IKR it’s pretty heavy.
@@paigehanika8701 Yeah I remember seeing the original scenes and I understood why it was changed. Not just for the more violent nature of the message, but for the fact that it could be easily interpreted to go both ways.
It could be that the majority are oppressing the few, only granting them a lesser citizenship. But it could also be interpreted as the previously oppressed using their status as vulnerable to oppress the majority. It would be difficult to have a movie that could be used by either radical viewpoint, so it was subsequently changed.
(While I'd have loved to have watched the original idea, I wildly enjoyed the tunes down version tbh)
“you’re eyes are so big” “does your mom speak english?” “haha you’re supposed to be good at math” all jokes i’ve uncomfortably laughed at. growing up i thought i couldn’t complain about racism because no one was physically hurting me. i also thought i couldn’t be racist because i wasn’t white. we all just need to work harder at avoiding micro aggressions. just because you meant no harm, doesn’t mean you did no harm.
I hear a lot of "why did you leave [insert Asian country, most likely Japan or China]" a lot and I'm literally not even Asian. My eyes just look slightly different.
Both these comments ring so true... especially after recent events.
They literally refuse to serve white people at many bars in Japan are are widely openly racist against foreigners. Guess what? You're not responsible for that, nor should you be villianized for something you can't control just because you share one commonality with them.
the famous "why doesn't 100% of the entire population just magically know everything about my entire life story by interacting with me 1 time"
racism is beating someone to death because they look like someone who did something 4000 miles away. its not asking if your mom speaks english
@@mayainverse9429 Racism has many shades.
That popsicle scene is one of my favorite ones in that movie just because of so many layers to it, you have Judy following Nick because he looked shady to her implicit bias, then, when she realizes he just wanted a popsicle for his "son", and was being explicitly harassed, she defends him, pointing out the wrong-doings of the store, and buys it for him, makes that 'well articulated' comment. But *then* not long afterward, you discover that he was *indeed* up to shady business, he was melting and repackaging and selling it for profit. I just love how amazingly intertwined it all is.
Thank you for pointing out how being “color blind” is somehow idealistic. I think the only way to combat racism, sexism, etc., is by accepting these differences but knowing that they shouldn’t affect one’s standing or treatment in society because its just a fact of life not a requirement or a defining feature
This -- this is exactly what the ideal world we are taught to believe in is and should be. We all need to strive to make the world a better place, as Judy Hopps said.
True, and it might just be because I am a white male, but I see skin color and whether someone is part of the lgbtq+ community as being a way of describing a person, but what that means about the person just depends on the meaning that we give to it as a person and society. For example, I know some people in the lgbtq+ community that I don't necessarily like or dislike, but I have realized that I have created an implicit bias against them in my head because of that community, even though I know deep down that that is not really why I don't like them, even if I can't describe the actual reason. I try not to hold any biases against people that I am just meeting, that way I can get to know them, but just like Judy, they will likely always exist in how I act around and what I share with them, despite my best efforts.
@Muis! ok
@Muis! Who hurt you as a child? Did you get Blackpilled by the school of hard knocks? Or... Are you just bitterly projecting your biases and hatred onto the rest of the world?
@Muis! Dude go to therapy. You're insane.
I noticed something interesting about the line "a real articulate fella". From what we've seen in the movie, the only other fox Judy has communicated with was Gideon. While she shows later on in the scene with her parents that Gideon's bullying didn't skew her view on Foxes, it actually did when she called Nick an "articulate fella", because her only experience with Foxes was Gideon and it unintentionally shaped her view of them.
Essentially she was trying to complement Nick, but in actuality said to him "oh, you're smart and well-mannered for a Fox", though she didn't mean to; which PERFECTLY matches Cinema Therapy's quote "good intentions doesn't mean good behaviour". I think it's another powerful example in the film that you might think you're not biased, but are unaware that you implicitly are.
The sad irony of this is before the video started the presenters had to play into other people's bias by walking in lockstep with the "white privilege" myth.
A myth so easily debunked by going to any homogeneous or semi-homogeneous country that isn't predominantly white.
You are making me question and review my whole life, worried I've done the same to others.
@@AgentMoss2217 realistically you have, but realizing this is the first step to becoming better 🤍
17:11 really hits home. I am a flamboyant dude and since middle school lots of people just assumed that because I was flamboyant I was gay, despite my protestations. Eventually I just ended up acting “gay” because that’s what they expect. It felt awful that nobody believed me, even when they were like “it’s okay we won’t judge you for being gay”
I was a bad student (ADD + depression + parental issues makes school hard). After a certain point i just gave up. The reason i graduated highschool was cuz i wasn't allowed to not graduate and (more importantly) mu best friend believed in me. She told me all the time that I was smart and knowledgeable but that my situation sucked. And that I'd do better when we got out. When i would have control over my circumstances (we both thought college was the answer cuz that was what we were taught).
But i had a fee classes i gave up on because i was told i wasn't good enough so i just didnt put the effort in. Why try when you are only going to fail? Might as well put the effort in somewhere else (like not giving up entirely)
Don't worry, if people are so involved in your sexuality, they probably questioning their's, and aren't feeling confident, and projecting their insecurities on you. But if you're expressing yourself in the most honest way, and if you're cool with it, then just ignore those people. (I know easier said than done.) Also even if you were gay and told them, they would not stop pestering you anyways. I speak from experience in that one. Anyways, just don't let it get to you, and continue to shine.
A lot of people (mostly my friends) assume my dad is bisexual, because he acts a bit flamboyant too.
He’s straight, he’s just secure enough in his sexuality and masculinity to be himself. Keep being you.
They won't judge you for being gay and yet they keep calling you gay and we're assuming you were gay what's up with that..
I hate how simple things like being flamboyant can cause people to make assumptions like that these days... Like why do people read into things so much? Why can't people just be themselves and not have to worry about random stereotypes influencing their lives? :(
This is a powerful topic. I'm a ginger black American gay guy. I grew up with bias around me, but it was cuz I'm light skinned, freckles, and red hair. As a kid, I was always popular, and other kids liked me becuase I was articulate, intelligent, and well educated. bullies wanted to be my friend because I was so kind and well-spoken. It was the adults that made me uncomfortable. Kids would ask why I spoke as I did, why my voice was so high, why my features were different from my brothers, and if I liked boys, but I never felt offense. I felt insecure because all the adults at the time were homophobic, religious, and racist. I grew up hearing how terrible white people were, how immigrants were taking over everything, and even how other black adults didn't like my mixed features. Only other kids were sincere, ask their questions, and decide they didn't care how different I was because I was great at freeze tag and making new games. I'm now 27, and it took me about 25 of those to accept how I look, I'm still learning the self love, but it's all a hurdle. I don't feel secure in any communities still. I'm not white, and they feel either patronizing or awkwardly guilty. Black communities either see me as special or gross, and I wanna hide in plain sight. The LGBT+ community says it's inclusive, but I'm either seen as attractive because I'm different or unattractive because I don't adhere to the western / euro-centric beauty standard. I'm not ugly, but I'm not attractive. The irony is the most racism I've ever experienced against me was by other black people! In my current college, literally EVERYONE in my classes are white, so topics of race always become awkward, and I can feel the air shift. I hate the "I don't see colour" thing. We all see colour! don't take my colour from me! I have more or less melanin than you and a different past! Now let's play tag already! As an adult, I realize my experiences have been atypical yet still quite tragic. It's very lonely, but It's better to be alone than to be with ingenuine people.
Are you doing alright? sorry if this is super out of the blue but i just couldn't pass by and ignore it, i genuinely want to know if you're alright. but it's ok if you don't want to talk about it
That last sentance really hit the nail on the head for me. If I smell a stunt or bs coming out of a persons mouth, especially a friends or family members mouth, I call it out.
It appears you've had quite a rough one ime not tye most optimistic persone but I say with a good bit of confidence that while some black and white and queer people will dislike you for how you are there are also many how won't care and accept you for how you are
So anyway have a good day
@Yanina cattani I'm very well, thank u for asking 😌 I've just graduated with my 2nd degree, and I have a goddaughter on the way. We get triggered at some things and pick fights with the past, but when the dust settles, the now and next r what matter most, y'know 😌 I think I'm pretty good
@U.F. I thank u. Tbh, it's still rough dating-wise, but I'm appreciating the journey. I admittedly had bouts of vanity and anger, but then I grew to truly like myself and see the beauty in others I wouldn't have seen beyond the skin deep layer. Friends ask y I bother responding to guys I'm not attracted to or r much older, and I remind them a bit of kindness goes a long way, and there's nothing wrong with sparing a few minutes instead of blocking them straight away. We should just treat each other better, yknow. When u do, u might start treating yourself the best.
I hate how little people talk about the news reporters in that scene where Judy answers questions poorly. The level of contorting her words to suit a differnet narrative is so accurate to how the news is in real life.
They'll say what happened, but it was actually x threatening y not x defending themselves against y.
Also - one of the reporters was likely working for Bellwether, the one who was also a sheep, at 8:36
@@marialuizanederborges9611 And he looks uncannily like one of her henchmen
@@marialuizanederborges9611 kind of ironic in a movie about implicit bias that we _implicitly_ assume a sheep is in league with one criminal sheep.
@@lavans5721 Holy Moly the layers of bias are deep indeed. I hadn't even thought of that
@@lavans5721 Well, the reporter in question is the one who asked "so predators are the only ones going savage?" which felt more divisive than the previous and following questions. So there is some good reason to be suspicious.
Plus, Bellweather wasn't the only criminal sheep. She had a big group of sheep working with her as well. Though, the fact that it was ONLY sheep feels like a can of worms waiting to be opened.
"Your not committing hate crimes, yay." I, I just thought that was funny lol
same
Me too hahaha
Ngl, I absolutely hate it when people talk like this, mocking you for supposedly expecting a reward for basic decency. Like, what if I don't expect a medal or whatever it is that they're suggesting? The absence of punishment is NOT the same thing as a reward, and therefore, pointing out that you don't deserve to be punished is NOT the same thing as demanding a reward.
@@catbatrat1760 was this directed at my comment or...?
@@nellys3088 Sorta kinda? More like that topic in general.
I'm so sorry. I didn't think of how rude it could come across. I'm so, so sorry.
Oh boy. You guys said the "keeping predators in check" and gave me flash backs to the bonus features. The original plot for this movie was SO much darker. Originally the predators were forced by society to wear shock collars. If their heart rate went high enough (as a tracker for anger but excitement did it too) the collar shocked them. To "keep predators in check". The writers changed the story because they realized they created a world too dark to cheer on.
Oh shiste yeah I heard about that early story and I nearly forgot... but dang that was way more intense. They even animated one scene where Nick gets his shock collar removed for some sort of check up, and the short-lived relief he felt at taking it off was heartbreaking...
In the scene where Judy apologized to Nick, the background had the building where Nick built his theme-park!! From the original plot! That's a nice little detail right there.
Wow. This sounded like the anime: Psycho Pass
oh my god--
@@rogelinelim1046 psycho pass was dark, it was sad to me because people who needed mental help or were responding appropriately to a traumatic or stressful experience were treated like criminals by a machine
I also love how emotional Alan gets in these episodes. He has such a deep feeling heart ❤️
An interesting thing about Judy is that, aside from believing herself to be enlightened, she is also a minority in her workplace and faces a lot of ridicule and condescension for wanting to be treated like her colleagues, proving that just because you're a minority in one context doesn't mean you can't be prejudiced against a different minority at the same time
So true!
Based
I always appreciate your commentary. As "two white guys" I think you definitely nailed implicit bias. I went to a school district where I was one of only a few black students and I dealt with a bunch of well intentioned well meaning white teachers, students their and parents who were constantly saying things that were incredibly offensive but with the best intentions. I can't tell you how many times I was complimented for being "not like other black people", and how articulate I was and how comfortable they felt having me in their home. Sadly, sometimes the compliments were worse than the insults because there's no way to respond sincerely. In a weird way I preferred people who were just openly blatantly racist because I knew how to handle them. It was the ones who would invite me to their house for dinner and spend 30 minutes telling me how racist their grandparents had been and how they didn't see color; those were the ones who made me the most uncomfortable. It seemed as if they were trying to use their friendship with me to prove they were good people. I was the "black friend" they would can conveniently reference whenever they wanted to prove that they weren't racist.
oh shit they just did a bias wtf lmao
My first thought at the "you are not like other black people" was "okay, so how many black people do you know?"
And you are right of course, back-handed compliments are insidious, unintentionally back-handed compliments are even worse.
I've seen that bias once in a _really_ elderly relative: born in the 1930ies, I'll swear to it that she doesn't have a mean bone in her body, and I've never heard her say a disparaging or even impatient word about anybody. So having her comment in a 80% admiring, 20% surprised tone about how eloquent an Afro-American politician is ... oh drat. After the first shock I had to remind myself that yep, this was somebody born well before the civil rights movement.
Even with that age group, it's such a weird, weird feeling when one of your most inoffensive, unassuming relatives makes such a remark.
Ah yes, tokenism and performative allyship. Unfortunately this is still rampant due to the current prevalence of social media
It'd be worse if you were given extra points. Happend in my country for people from farmer background going to university.
@@jakubrogacz6829 oh yeah, something like that happens in my country. They have versions of academic awards for people in a specific minority group, and while the intention is good, having that reward implies that a person in that minority group is incapable of performing to the standard of everyome else.
It's really hard to complain about since because since I'm not in that minority group I just sound like I want less recognition for people who are, when really I just don't agree with the underlying implicit message that an Aboriginal person can't beat non aboriginals in academic fields.
The worst part is that in a fucked up way they have a point, the Australian education system is slanted against Aboriginal people. Hell, pretty much every system is slanted against Aboriginal people when you look at the statistics, the statistical gaps in lifespan and incarceration are horrifying. But these academic awards are just a blatant attempt at avoiding the responsibility schools and the wider group of public services have to serve and protect citizens regardless of identity.
Fun fact: herbivores (including rabbits) can be every bit as savage as predators under the right circumstances, and many even eat meat on occasion if the opportunity presents itself. Not sure if the filmmakers were intentionally trying to make this point, but Judy's seemingly common sense "biological" explanation for the fact that only predators are going savage isn't just offensive and a distraction from the real cause: its simply factually incorrect, just like a lot of the supposedly "biological" explanations presented for inequities in the real world.
Heck, a lot of times *herbivores* are actually the animals that are genuinely belligerent and aggressive towards other creatures; while carnivores can be that way too, they usually try NOT to do that to save energy for hunting (or if they feel like they need to defend themselves).
Yess. I dont know where the notion of "if it eats plants" its friendly comes from. Carnivores attack because they are hungry and can be discouraged if you arent worth the effort, Herbivores attack with homicide on their mind and any attempts to discourage from attacking them like with carnivores will just make them angrier and keen to kill you.
Rabbits will eat their own babies lol
Sometimes they do it if they feel their babies are being threatened, so it's sort of well-intentioned but it's still horrific nonetheless
@@F1areon if I'm correct, not all carnivores are aggressive, some prey on things that are incapable of escape, such as krill to whales.
@@joshcoy6748 spiders
As a teenager, I fell in with a group of friends that were extremely explicit racists. Not burn crosses level, but still a core part of the groups identity. I was a weird, lonely, bullied kid, and they treated me like family, it was difficult not to get drawn in. I dropped out a few years later when they wanted me to hurt people, which I never have and hope to never do.
Even though I'm absolutely against everything the stand for now, it's hard not to get certain impulses now and then. They absolutely brainwashed me with their garbage, and I don't know if the split second reactions to certain things will ever go away.
What I can choose is how to deal with it. Do I choose to let my bias affect me, or do I choose to resist. Considering I have close friends that have so much intersectionality you'd be hard pressed to construct it, I hope I'm doing an okay job (and they're my friends because they're awesome, not to prove a point). But I still have so much work to do, 20 years later. I just want to be a good person.
Something I found fascinating the first time I watched this movie is how the predators and prey species aren't just biased against each other, there's prejudices, stereotypes and biases between the different species as well. For instance, how the yak character at the nudist place kept making implicitly biased assumptions about the elephant character, like how she had to have great memory because she was an elephant and "elephants never forget". This stereotype is further underlined by the fact that she actually doesn't remember anything at all.
A lot of people talk about the 'predators and prey' theme when it comes to this movie, but I haven't seen a lot of people acknowledge that even just amongst the prey species there is implicit bias, that's it's such a deep-rooted societal issue spreading beyond just 'predators vs. prey'.
Tbh its alot like reality. When people think "rascism" or "stereotyping" they think mostly white people against black people or (now) asians, but there is SO MUCH MORE. for example, the original irish immigrants were treated by racism and stereotypes, mentally and physically disabled people are STILL stereotyped against, etc.
This is exactly why I hate Twitter discussions about this movie that automatically relates the biases in Zootopia as a direct allegory for black people vs white people. The biases and prejudices are more than that, both in the movie and irl. It's not a simple black and white situation, which Twitter for some reason likes associating with anything and everything.
That's actually a really good point. It's considered a "positive" stereotype, but it's still a stereotype. It's the real life equivalent to someone saying that a Black person must be good at sports, or how all Chinese people are good at mathematics.
“A true apology is really just about acknowledging and taking accountability for one’s mistakes.” Words to live by.
I found an old comment recently that I wrote as a teenager: "of course other races can be handsome. I love flirting with hispanics and blacks because there isn't a pressure to be in a serious relationship"
When I read it, I was shocked. I was trying to appear all enlightened~ saying how every race is attractive. But in the same heartbeat I had this huge underlying assumption that interracial relationships aren't something anyone strives for.
Which- I realize came from how I grew up, with my parents and grandparents discouraging interracial relationships. But I'm surprised I didn't even see the bias I carried.
- also, I am now married to a hispanic man and he is the love of my life :p don't give up hope on the implicitly biased- we can change!
Well anyone has their own tastes. As a Mexican, white girls are hottest while black girls are the least. Not because I don’t like black people in general, just my own sexual bias
As a Mexican woman, that is a result of implicit bias. Our own culture encourages us to marry light so our kids will be light because dark is bad. Latinos are colorist, and when you yourself are dark then the darkest become the least desireable, aka people of African descent. So I think sexual bias results out of implicit bias
Marco, I agree people's tastes do not mean they are racist. My problem was, I definitely thought hispanics were cute, but like I mentioned I was raised to think a romantic relationship with another race was bad.
But also, maybe implicit bias does influence our preferences in this way? Because if we associate really positive feelings toward a specific race or very negative associations, I am sure this would impact our attraction towards someone.
@@laureneliserod it's the same with filipinos
Marco Garcia well...the thing is our tastes are also shaped by the world around us and the media we consume. I’m not saying you automatically have to change your taste in women, but maybe try questioning why is it that you find white women to be more attractive than black women. I used to find white men (güeros) more attractive than all other races, but when I started questioning why I slowly started seeing attractive men in ALL races. I say it was a win-win for me.
Something I've noticed about implicit bias is it can also be used to justify a certain behavior. For example, someone could go their whole life thinking "Bullying is and horrible and not at all justifiable" but, suddenly, they make a friend who turns out to be a bully and they think "Well, it's not that bad, they must've gone through something to justify this." They brush it off as fine.
I think what can separate the two is whether or not the person calls out the bully. Just because you had a bad history, it doesn't justify the actions. It's a reason for it, but not an excuse.
“You’re not committing hate crime! Yay!!” I’m rolling 🤣
Glad I wasn't the only one who teared up rewatching that apology scene. I also cry at the tram scene every time because Nick's lines of "You never let them see they get to you" and "Why try to be anything different?" just hit SO hard
Zootopia may be my fave Disney movie of all time. It is SO incredibly well-written (aside from the villain, which we don't need to talk about), the character interactions are just so delightful, the visuals are great, the music is catchy, and you highlighted the ways in which this story tackles such a real theme of racism in such a clever way using animal characters. And at least to me, it never feels preachy. It never feels like the movie has an agenda. It just feels like it's portraying reality in a fictional world through a very human way, ironically enough
Other then the you know what and that god forsaken dance party ending, I love Zootopia. Not my favorite Disney movie though. That goes to Hunchback of Notre Dame
Welcome to the furry zone
@@starrsmith3810 the you know what?
@@haveagoodmourning the villain reveal
@@starrsmith3810 I loved the villain - what did you personally not like about it?
Personally I think doesn't matter if you're black or white or what sexualty you have, everyone has implicit bias. My Indian parents really don't like Chinese and Pakistani people and tend to see Muslims in a bad light. I know it's wrong but sometimes I act like Judy by accident. We are built biologically to judge systems and groups in general terms, and our brains tend to see things in black and white to keep everything in a tight internal narrative. Trying to change those implicit biases will take personal confrontation like it did for Judy, because we have so many of them that it's impossible to change all of them. This is just my opinion anyway
there isn't anything bad with such biasas like in this movie if it were real life and you were a real rabbit trying to be the best anti-racist and trying to say hello to a lion or a fox will literally get you killed. the important thing to remember is a trend is not a guarantee but at the same time generalizations are still generally true.
@@mayainverse9429 it seems quite risky though to believe generalizations about groups of people though. Bc of media we don’t always know the whole truth. Not everyone reads an entire story and instead will just focus on the headline. We should always be aware of our implicit biases and how they affect people bc in some cases they can be damaging.
@@nightowl_ ok well. try being gay and take a vacation with your partner to Iran with the idea that you shouldn't let implicit bias get in the way. good luck.
@@mayainverse9429
“There isn’t anything bad with such biases”?
I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to conclude you were stupid due to being a conservative, would you?
True...everyone is prejudice and has an implicit bias, but it is nothing compared to racism, which is prejudice plus the power to affect or harm someone's livelihood or life altogether. And that is what Bellwether, as well as those like her, did and still continues to do.
Im surprised you guys didn’t show the train scene, it’s such a simple scene of a mother pulling her kid away from someone but it’s so effective in showing how subtle biases can be
I really wish I could say that I'm surprised that our video dealing with Implicit Bias (and tangentially, racism) is our most disliked so far. The least controversial thing anybody should ever say is, "We need to treat everyone with respect, and never pre-judge anybody, based on any external, physical trait." And yet... Here we are. What a dumb time we live in.
I mean... Not that the overall share of likes to dislikes is bad, but really, should anybody be disliking "Let's all fix our implicit biases"? Let's all be less dumb!
Truth.
I second the motion of “truth”. This is an important message for people to hear, it shouldn’t be disliked as much as it is
AND YET, you pre-judge yourselves, _"huwite pwivileged peeple at the top of the food chain"._ How about you fix your implicit bias about yourselves first? This is exactly why I disliked your video. Being part of a majority in terms of the skin colour does not make you part of the majority in terms of anything else, and doesn't really grant you any privilege. And this argument of "white=privileged" sounds even stupider when you look at the poorest of white people, the richest of black people, the places with majority black population, and all forms of actual privilege other than being rich, or being the majority (in terms of views, rather than just skin colour) that you don't take into account. _"You can't just relax any more"_ - see, that's the problem. You must be able to relax and speak your mind without the feeling that you're walking a minefield. Which doesn't negate the need to get rid of implicit bias, but is still important, probably even more important than that.
Even Zootopia recognized that things aren't as simple as "majority=privileged". Carnivores there are the minority. Yet they are the ones with the history of oppressing herbivores. And they aren't underprivileged as of the time of the film, as the mayor and a good half of the cops are carnivores. Yet they are the ones who face the prejudice. Both herbivores and carnivores, and all separate species, have some stereotypes about them. And some of those stereotypes even prove to be true to some extent _(ahem, sloths)._
@@kristarobertson1308 and this is actually something I can agree with. Racism cannot be defeated by racism with the opposite vector. Neither can sexism, or any other form of prejudice.
@@mirrortherorrim I can tell by your super long paragraph you wrote that you didn't even fully watch the video, or only listen to it with one ear. You say address this, and changed it to majority privilege. And yes, we're white people exist but if a white man and a poor black man commits the same crime chances are the poor black man will get a harsher sentence.
Worked at Fast Food a while ago, and some customer was being REALLY dumb.
My manager at the time, is Native American. So when this customer says "Go back to your country!" I actually had to hold back a laugh.
Bro this is his country
But it's still sad that just the skin tone was enough to make that man think less of someone else.
Like bruh we need to talk about the natives
I would've loved it if your manager had said "This neighborhood used to be nice before the white people moved in."
The irony of people who say that; "Go back to your country" at the natives. It's vindictive as fuck.
that customer failed history
I'm mad at this customer now and I don't even know them
"He's crying again. I love this man" had me laughing so much, it genuinely brought me joy lol. There's nothing shameful about human emotion and I love seeing it embraced. (The video about toxic masculinity is a great follow up to this). I love Zootopia. The discussion about implicit bias is uncomfortable, but necessary. Unlearning it is uncomfortable, but necessary. I hope one day race (and gender, sexuality, religion) will be non-issues.
That moment made me SO happy too!!! I love these two and how they openly adore and appreciate each other in these videos. And Alan really does cry everytime, it's so endearing because you can tell he feels deeply and loves the craft and seeing these amazing things in movies.
same here
12:07 something about this specifically is that most times ppl don’t mean it in a rude way it’s meant to be a compliment but it has like a under tone of being backhanded I’ve had people compliment me on my English or just ask if I even speak English and while I get it’s not meant in a derogatory way it’s creates a barrier that like separates me from other people or makes it feel like I’m able to “fit in” like earn my spot and be accepted but I never really say anything or try to correct them because I know they’re not trying to be hurtful so I just brush it off but I know it’s not really right and while it’s meant to be nice it isn’t something you should really say
I never noticed "articulate fella" shoot...
It was a reference to Joe Biden, when he referred to president Obama as “the first mainstream African American man thats clean and articulate, its a fairytale man!” He thought it was a compliment, but it was definitely some extremely obvious implicit bias.
Neither did I!
@@sethfeldpausch4337 that’s a good example of it but it wasn’t a reference to joe Biden. That’s been said way before him
As an Asian person whose preferred language is English, I get a lot of "Wow your English is soooo good!"
Like, yeah it sounds like a compliment but it's more of a microaggression towards other people in my ethnic group.
I DID LOL
Made me wince inside
When Judy is in the press conference, the moment she says "biology," you can see two predator reporters looking very hurt and confused.
I actually got in a lot of trouble, as did my mother, when the No Child Left Behind act meant that kids started having to take state-mandated standardized tests. The hardest question for me? Fill in your race/ethnicity. I was 5, and am autistic. My skin isn't the color of the paper. I must not be white. My skin doesn't look like the ink. I must not be black. I don't speak Spanish, and my name is Armstrong (clearly not hispanic name), so I'm probably not hispanic. There was no "other" to fill in. I made my own bubble: TAN!
Yeah, my teacher, the vice principal, the principal, they were all PISSED. Mom was called in and told off for not teaching her idiot daughter that she's white. Mom just stared at them like, "You realize you won't even let me teach her to READ, right? And now you want me to get into talks about her race? She's five! She still thinks a race is a running thing."
I had to redo the ethnicity question. Now I know I'm like 50 different kinds of white.
Wait I did that too when I was younger lol 😂
I Just crossed it off
If I saw what you wrote.. I think that's cute.. uh .. and for the record.. thinking outside the box takes intelligence.
I love your answer haha! Thats the most honest ever
I still don't know what to select when I'm forced to pick only one option. I don't look white, but most of my biological siblings do. Am I supposed to go off genetics or appearances? Do I have to reject part of my background so I can fit on government forms?
I'm glad it's a growing trend to "select all that apply".
I get this a lot when people hear that I am autistic. "Oh you express yourself so well!" Always said like they are talking to a kindergartner. I'm a forking adult. Just because I am autistic doesn't mean I can't talk. I do wish people would learn about other people instead of only trusting in stereotypes.
So this is something i know I'm guilty of myself as I've had time to reflect on it now as an adult and in a weird twist of fate i am learning there's a high likelihood i am on the spectrum, particularly what would've formerly been called "Asperger's". I'm researching and talking to friends and family and professionals and will be seeking an official assessment at some point, and once i get there, if i find out that, yes, i am actually on the spectrum i don't want to be suddenly facing these types of comments when never once in my life have i dealt with them before in regards to ASD (i have dealt with backhanded compliments a few times before), and especially not after putting in so much effort to truly understand how my own mind is working. So i guess in a sense, i am afraid of somehow dealing with an extra layer of crap from other people, and maybe that's its own kind of implicit bias, one rooted in a foundational lack of understanding for most other people?
@JacelynAvowlin unfortunately the world is built to cater to what people consider "normal" so you'll have to prepare yourself for being treated strangely. I'm singled out whether i say I'm Autistic or not, because people seem to have a spidey sense for people who are different. Both of my children, also on the spectrum, experience the same with their peers.
@keen8271 oh I mean plenty of people already think I'm weird, I guess I'm more just not ready for that to somehow turn to pity or for the tone of treatment to change for the worse. I get left alone for the most part, and I don't want that to change, and I understand that so long as I don't bring it up where it isn't necessary then it won't affect anything, but u also understand that in knowing my mind better ill know how to tell people how to help me and there will be circumstances where it would be necessary to say something so that both parties understand eachothers potential limitations.
@@JacelynAvowlin exactly. Not ever telling people really isn't an option. If im crying in Walmart because they stopped selling my cereal people gonna ask LOL
I do have one small gripe with Judy's apology to Nick, and that's that Nick ends up having to perform the emotional labour of comforting Judy, and that's something marginalised people speak about all the time when we point out to our friends that they've done or said something wrong and it can deter us from speaking up. If one of my friends says something queerphobic to me I don't want them to start feeling sorry for themselves and require me to comfort them when I call them out, and I think allies to marginalised people really need to learn that if you feel upset when you get called out that is absolutely fine, but the person who called you out is not who you unload that on and who you rely on to absolve you, because they already had to deal with the hurt of what you did - and they have to deal with a build up of hurt constantly. If you get emotional when apologising to someone for doing something racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, then the best thing to do is make sure you've said all you need to say, then take some time to compose yourself or turn to another friend to help you calm down. Your feelings are valid, but marginalised people are not responsible for comforting you after you do something wrong. That's not to say that your friend WON'T comfort you or even that they won't want to, some people don't mind - but there becomes a problem when during an apology you implicitly expect your friend to comfort you and tell you it's fine, you're a good person, they know you're not really a bigot, etc. I think it would have been far more impactful for Judy to apologise, get upset, turn away and compose herself, and then for Nick to play the pen back, to forgive her and for them to hug. This is a kids film and I think that would have modelled apologies where discrimination are concerned just slightly more effectively. As it is in the film he has to make her feel better after the apology when he's the one who's been wronged - it centres Judy's emotions a little too much. It's still a sweet moment though, this is just a small thing.
edit: I'd like to amend saying and implying that a few moments aren't that important - they are, please check out NotABot 8436 's comment below
YEAH! YOU GET IT!!!!! I was hoping that this would have been talked about in the video actually
That makes total sense. Do you think that the time gap between Nick calling her out and her apologizing smoothed that transition though? Nick called her out in the moment and then walked away, and she came to him later, so they both had time to work things out in their heads. I also think Judy was pretty clear that she didn't expect him to comfort her or even forgive her because she was completely aware that what she did was wrong; she wasn't trying to justify her actions or make him feel guilty for how she felt. She completely took responsibility for her actions and her response. So when you say that Nick shouldn't be required to absolve Judy, I completely agree, and I also feel that him forgiving her was a free choice he consciously chose to make without any pressure because of the way she apologized. Yes, she was upset and crying, but that was after she made the expectations of not requiring him to forgive her clear, and having experienced fighting with my friends and then resolving, there are usually tears involved because those people mean so much to you and it's upsetting to have a relationship messed up, especially if it's something you've done.
I definitely agree that ill-placed apologies focused on blame, not being accountable for your actions, and then still expecting the injured party to do the emotional labor for you is completely unfair and irresponsible. From my perspective though, it seemed like Judy's apology wasn't that.
What would you have done if you were in Nick's shoes?
@@ilurvsharrypotter (sorry for the incoming essay haha) I'm not saying Judy's apology wasn't genuine and that she didn't do the correct work of figuring out exactly what she had to say. It's not about the content of her apology. What I'm saying is that when she breaks down crying in the apology I think it would have been a little more effective from an anti-implicit bias perspective for Judy to pull HERSELF together before Nick plays the pen back to her, do that emotional work for herself. She could even start crying again once they hug and make up, but the way it's framed in the film is Nick comforting Judy, not Judy comforting Nick. Which is a problem - Nick is the one who's been wronged, and Judy did the wrong. Forgiveness is not the same as having to do emotional work to make someone feel better in that moment, to manage their emotions.
(edit: I'd like to amend saying and implying that a few moments aren't that important - they are, please check out NotABot 8436 's comment below)
I've been on both sides of it, and I didn't even realise it was happening TO me when I occasionally had to call people out on queerphobia until I saw black activists talking about it in relation to racism, let alone that I was guilty of it (and I have been, and I regret that). And Judy herself experiences a less intense version of this kind of interaction earlier in the film - when her workmate calls her cute and she explains to him why he shouldn't say that, she is doing so much work to say it in a careful, light tone that will protect his feelings and manage his reaction. And instead of just saying 'oh I'm so sorry I upset you, I didn't know, I won't do it again' and moving on in the interaction, Clawhauser goes on a (short, but it's there) self indulgent little speech about how he should have known better, centring his feelings and self image - but Judy's the one who was hurt. She ends up being the one doing all the mental and emotional work in that interaction.
When Judy apologises she is justified in crying - she feels bad, that's valid. But Nick then helps her stop crying by hugging her and reassuring her - that's not an altogether bad thing but it would have been an even better model for a discrimination related apology (because this movie is explicitly trying to teach kids about bias) for her to take a moment to stop herself crying, then for Nick to play the pen and for them to hug. It could even have been sweet if she started crying again but instead of the tears of shame she's crying in her apology, they're tears of joy - having a break between those two states of crying would more clearly delineate them, and send the message that Nick is not responsible for making her feel better. Of course in the real world plenty of people will comfort their friend in these situations. Friends want to make their friends feel better when they apologise, it's natural. The thing is though, when you're marginalised in some way you can end up doing a LOT of emotional labour trying to protect and manage the feelings of the people who are doing you harm. And this film is about that harm, and it would have been cool for Judy to have a moment of realising that she's centring her emotions over Nick's, take a deep breath, and calm herself down before Nick forgives her and hugs her. It would help teach that nuance to the audience.
So no the time gap doesn't address this (again, small when it comes to a few moments in a kids film) problem. That time already serves the purpose of Judy realising exactly what she's done wrong. And none of what I'm saying is to do with Nick's decision to forgive her - we're talking about absolution, not forgiveness. It's great that Judy makes it clear that she doesn't expect Nick to forgive her. The actual apology is good, and the way Nick is depicted in his decision to accept it is good. I'm purely talking about the subtle framing of Judy's emotions dominating the scene, even though she's the one who did something wrong. What's needed is just a few beats between her apology and crying, and Nick forgiving her and them hugging, for her to calm down - the difference is totally in who manages Judy's emotions, not in the apology itself, or Nick's forgiveness.
Forgiveness and absolution are not the same thing - forgiveness is accepting an apology and moving forward. Absolution is releasing someone from guilt, and when someone is upset when apologising and their emotions become centred despite their wrongdoing, it's human nature (or I guess, Fox nature haha) to try to make them feel better, to convince them not to feel guilty. This person you care about is crying and upset and feels awful about themselves, and you don't want that for them, and so you perform that emotional labour of trying to absolve them. The thing is, that's unfair, because again, it centres the emotions of the person apologising and who did something discriminatory instead of those of the person who was hurt. Judy's emotions are the focus of that scene, not Nick's. And when it comes to implicit bias, feeling guilty for doing the wrong thing is actually healthy, it reminds us to keep changing and getting better (it shouldn't be overwhelming of course, but that's what forgiveness is for). But if we immediately feel absolved of our guilt - not just forgiven, but absolved - when our friends forgive us for discriminatory behaviour then you'd have to be the most self aware, in control person on earth for that to be enough to permanently change your actions, because implicit biases are basically habits.
Basically, the people we hurt are never responsible for releasing us from our guilt or for comforting us when it makes us feel bad - that's something we have to work for ourselves, something we have to prove to ourselves through changing and growing. And a slight tweak to an already really great apology scene would have had slightly better implications in that sense. It would have helped to decouple being forgiven and having your emotions managed by the person you hurt. And decoupling those things is important to being an ally to any group.
It's also an important thing for marginalised people and kids to see modelled - to see that it's not on us to manage our friends' guilt, shame, tears, etc. when it comes to their racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. I have been in Nick's position (although thankfully not over such a serious offence as Judy's). I've had to call people in know out for queerphobia, and I often end up feeling sorry that I even said something because said friend becomes upset or starts over apologising or being so self deprecatory that it doesn't feel worth it - it's exhausting, but I also can't just sit there and not comfort them, that would feel wrong. And it's natural that I'd want to do that comforting - but that's why it's on allies to unlearn this reaction, to realise when they're centring themselves too much and change how they act in those situations. Because it can build up to the point where people stop calling their friends and family out at all because it's so much effort both while calling them out to manage your tone, and while they're apologising - even though they're the ones who are supposed to be putting in effort. I've had to change my behaviour in this way as well, because I have absolutely centred my feelings in situations where I was the person who'd done the wrong, biased thing and my friend was the one who'd been hurt, and so now I try as best I can to just apologise and not make it all about me, because I know how exhausting that is over time on the receiving end. That's why it would have been great to see Judy make that decision herself to calm down before Nick says anything back to her. It would have modelled to the audience her being responsible for her own emotions and her guilt, and it's not quite the same as her acknowledging Nick doesn't have to forgive her (which is a great thing that I'm glad is in the apology).
Sorry if this is too long lol, it's just a thing that's worth getting detailed about in my opinion. And again, the apology is great as it is, this would just make it that bit better.
that is very true and I didn't think about that, great insights. You're right, even Judy just turning away, fully ready to leave, and Nick stopping her would've been very impactful
@@louisac303 I really appreciate this thoughtful response, and I now completely understand where you're coming from. Thank you!!