I check out the latest offerings to see if things have improved. 12pcs ER32 Chuck Collet 1/8 to 3/4 Inch Spring Collet Set -- bit.ly/2s2KX0b More Collet Chuck -- bit.ly/2DQVvSV Camera: Nikon L820
Hi Laz, this is the only way you will get a true insight into what the product is like. The write ups can say anything, but you can't argue with test results when done correctly. Cheers Rob
Rob,thanks for the effort to put this test online. As I've said to Johan I have just received a Banggood ER32/MT2 collet chuck and it is very poor on concentricity of collet bore and Morse shank. I agree with you on using a collet block or disc chuck mounted in the 4 jaw and adjust for any runout. Where this falls over is using eccentric collet chucks or collets in the milling machine. Nothing can be done to compensate the runout then. For what its worth I'll also mention that the collet chuck I received has another serious error. The drawbar thread is very skewed to the chuck axis so making it near impossible to locate and tighten the drawbar thread. A very poor offering indeed. Banggood can have it back... Howard
Hi Howard, that's pretty poor. My advice is to take a short/basic video showing the problems and send that to BG with your request for a return. Cheers Rob
I've been wanting to get myself a set of collets for my lathe, they seem so handy. I've wondered about the cheap ones, and got the same feeling that you did from most of the reviews I watched. I won't shop at banggood anyway, after they sent me the wrong item, and they refused to send the item I ordered (a carbide lathe cutter set), and would only give me a partial refund because the items they sent (boring bars) were "usable". I'll hold out a bit longer and maybe get a good set. I'm trying really hard to go with quality tools these days, but it's always wise to look around to make sure there isn't something quality, but for a little less.
I was wondering about any possible runout in the chuck itself. And at the last second during testing the DIN collet you cleared that up. And it would seem that your DIN collet at .02mm runout may in fact be .000 something if the .02 noted matches the collet chuck itself. I recall Rollingmetal doing a similar test using a collet chuck where the ER nut threads on the chuck body were clearly running out of kilter. And it showed up by the front flat of the nut running out of kilter too. So perhaps the chuck is just as important as the collets themselves. I'd guess that to be the case.
Hi Bruce, all factors are important for accuracy, from the spindle bearings, to the Morse taper, the collet chuck arbour, the internal chuck tapers, the nose cap, the thread, and the collet itself. Runout/bad machining in any any one of those will undo the good specifications of the rest. You can also get compounding or negating/compensating errors, depending on error alignment. So a full test would be more complete than time allows here. In this case I knew from experience exactly how much TIR there was for all of the above. The end results were what I expected. Cheers Rob
I've got a set of similar Chines hit and miss collets, some are made well and some are made poorly. I'm going to set up a piece of ground bar in the tool post or tailstock and see if I can lap the worst ones into spec with some lapping compound.
You may find that if the slotting is irregular, grinding/lapping the centre will have no effect due to the way the segments pull up unevenly. Cheers Rob
i paid around $350au er40 with holder and are very happy.(7-8 years ago) but 75au ,what do you expect.people buy a lathe for 2-3000 au and then go shopping for cheapest tooling.?just my thoughts.good review rob.
Gday Rob, thank you, I have just got a milling machine and looking around for collets, I don’t mind paying if the product is good but it’s very frustrating when they say there are up to spec and there not, looks like m back on the search, thanks again mate, Matty
Thanks for doing this Rob. I purchased the 14 piece set from Banggood back in May and for what I do they are good enough. My only gripe was the set was supposed to be 1/16" to 3/4" what I actually received was no 1/16" and two 5/8"! Cheers, Alan.
Hi Alan, the runout looks worse than it is for most home users. You have to take it in contex and compared to the average three jaw scroll chuck, the runout isn't much different. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi Rob, yes that's a good point. After watching your video I did a quick Google for ER32 DIN standard collets. I found an 18 piece set to DIN 6499 which cost £135 which is about 254AUD. I would think that is beyond the reach of most hobby machinists. If you need collets to just hold work without damaging it, like threaded rod etc and small stuff working over short lengths then the Banggood ones are fine. Cheers, Alan.
If you weed out the few really bad ones the set will turn out half decent. You can buy DIN collets separately for about $10 AU : www.ctctools.biz/er32-collet-close-tolerance-metric-l14800/ It's interesting to see that the full ER32 set is sold out - shows that the demand is there. I bought my DIN set from this company. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu They are a lot more expensive over here. The only ones I could find which actually state they are manufactured to a DIN standard are £19.49 each which I think is about $36 in your money! Cheers, Alan.
pretty much the same as mine! I bought a couple of years ago, but ok for "reasonably" near, I'll have to start replacing them one at time with good stuff! Cheers Rob
Hi Cliff, the runout looks worse than it is for most home users. You have to take it in contex and compared to the average three jaw scroll chuck, the runout isn't much different. That's not to say it's OK, just that they are still usable for many people. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob Please try this, if you have not already done so - Fit the test piece only approx 3/4 of the way into the collet. I have also bought a cheap collet set. When the test piece was fully inserted, the run-out was 0.06. When only 3/4 inside the collet, less than 0.01mm.
Hi Patrick. That's not a good idea. ER collets are designed to be most accurate with full length use. If you only use part of the length it will pull up unevenly due to variable collet compression. The fact that you improved your accuracy is co-incidental IMHO (compensating errors that offset each other). I would expect that axial runout would go to hell doing what you suggest, when measured several distances out from the chuck on the test object. You can however vary accuracy by rotating the collet in the chuck so that any errors can compensate (or magnify). Cheers Rob
I'd like to get some ER collets at some point but don't want to throw good money away on cheap junk. Guess I'm having to save a few more nickels for some DIN-rated ones, like your older set. Thanks for sharing, I was wondering whether the QC on newer import collets was any better.
I have both er32 imp and 25 metric from Banggood and about 1/2 are usable BUT I ground the chuck and bought a ball bearing nut and improved the TRO but still not 100% over the range of sizes . All Sizes had slotting swarf still attached in the cut and on the smaller sizes had issues in the slots ( looks like the slot may have been cut two times and did not line up So check each and mark as good or not use accordingly depending on what you are machining
One way to still get accuracy out of these is with a collet block in the four jaw chuck. That way you can compensate for any runout with jaw adjustment. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Yup, Rob - but only if the collet bore is coaxial (or rather parallel with its tapers- which I found wasn't the case with almost half of my metric & imperial sets: they had both runout and angled bores. Easily checked: Clamp a true axle in the 4-jaw - snug the collet holder on, pointing the MT to the headstock, and rev it up (if you're ballsy): You'd perhaps be as amazed and sad as I was. :)
bought a set of 11 ER25 mainly metric (3 imperial) from Aliexpress for less than US$15 including shipping. Only one had some residue from machining which was easy to remove. The rest was good and they all were better than the spec in the offer.
Thanks for confirming my similar finding. I have a full set of ER32 and ER11 bangood collets and I suppose you get what you pay for. My 3 jaw scroll chuck has less runout than my bangood collets. As a hobby machinist who builds small engines they are of no use to me. I need to move between lathe, milling machine and rotary table and they dont give me the repeatable accuracy I need.
Hi David, I held off on reviewing BG collets for a very long time, because all the reviews I had seen showed they were poor quality. I finally relented after the recent big positives by the supplier, but that was all a load of crap as expected. So yes, you get what you pay for. Try CTC tools for accurate collets at a reasonable price. Cheers Rob
Hi Sam, you MUST do the test as shown, with a full length uniform test piece and check in several places out from the collet face (for axial run out). It would also pay to rotate the collet in the chuck, to see if you are getting a compounding/negating error. I was quite surprised how good the axial run out was and think the bad slotting caused most grief, as it affected the uniformity of the collet sections and hence the radial center point was moved under compression. Good luck. Cheers Rob
They are not all the same. Buy from a quality company and you can get DIN rated collets. Buy cheap and you will get shit. It's as simple as that. Not too hard to figure out.
I recently bought what I thought was a bargain ER32 collet set exactly the same as these shown. No doubt for the money you get a lot, but if it’s accuracy you’re after specifically then forget it. My holder was running a good .25mm out so I had to bore it out (8degs p/s). Even now, the arbor is running dead true but the 16mm collet I tested is still .05 out. Believe me, regarding tooling, you get what you pay for and I talk from 38 years of workshop experience.
Yes, entirely true. I held off reviewing BG collets for a number of years because the quality just didn't appear to be there. Finally relented when these supposedly higher spec ones were advertised, but the maker's claims were mere fantasy. They were just as bad as the rest. You CAN buy accurate Chinese collet gear from CTC Tools at quite reasonable prices and within the quoted spec. That's where all mine came from. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the unbiased review Rob. I have taken your advice and will be ordering a Din standard set from CTC tools. Are the China collet blocks and chucks worth the trouble or would you go CTC for them also? I would really prefer any mistakes to be my learning errors and not low quality tooling.
Hi Tom, I see they are sold out of DIN sets at the moment, but still have individual collets. I think a lot of people are fed up with the "B" grade stuff being sold all over. I reviewed a BG collet block recently and it was actually pretty good, but not perfect. I would definitely get the collet chuck (morse type) from CTC. That is a crucial item. I will probably go there to buy a replacement collet for the 1/4" with the terrible runout. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, thank you for the reply and for answering questions from this noob in Texas. I am reasonably sure this is not the first time you have answered them so thanks again for your patience and willingness to help a beginner. Thanks Tom
Saved me a lot of headscratching, cheers mate! Looks like Ill be buying the good ones as I need them rather than a set. At least I dont have to buy twice now
Thanks for the video. I have a set of these collets, not from Bangood, but the same boxes. Would drill bits be suitable to test the runout? Thanks again.
Hi Garry, not really, as the drill shank is not long enough to grip and measure on. I actually looked into this when trying to measure TIR on the small diameter sizes. Luckily I had some longer alternatives. Cheers Rob
Bought these a while ago, they are good enough for hobby use. Definitely not for industrial use, but what do you want for under $100 ? A bit rough here and there, but I’m quite happy with them. 10 years ago I could not even dream about having a collet set because of high price.
Yes August, tooling has never been cheaper. You just have to be selective and decide how good it has to be. Even though the collets reviewed are not as accurate as you would wish, they are still in line with the average three jaw scroll chuck. Cheers Rob
Hi from Ian in New Zealand. I worked for many years with a SecoTools who sold collets in both ER and Din type along with precision collets. As another of your viewers has said you get what you pay for, however in saying that, ER colltes are not accurate. The taper inside the nut. if its not ground true, can pull the collet over causing run out. My advise would be for people running solid carbide cutters you should look at side lock holders as these are simple and accurate but if you run soild carbide cutters in the ER collet chucks you will get uneven depth of cut per tooth due to run out which will reflect in the surface finish and poor tool life. If you want to run collet chucks for this type of cutter I reccomend you buy precision chucks as you will save money on tooling in the long run.
Hi Ian, ER collets are only NOT accurate if you grip something that is not full length, all other collet and chuck specifications being correct. Plus the object you are gripping must be uniform. The large full length compression range will throw up an issue if used incorrectly. If ER was not accurate, then most of industry wouldn't be using them in preference to older styles. ER is the most widely used collet by industry. Cheers Rob
Thanks, Rob! They look and perform exactly like my metric and imperial sets scored 2 years ago. Same boxes, printing and sloppy sawing. The MT2 & MT3 ER 32 Collet holders were waaay worse : +/- 0.1 mm runout and not even concentric to the Morse taper. -How the heck can you even get that in a somewhat decent cylindrical grinder? Otherwise the machining was excellent. Checked a pair of their new holders at a discount half a year ago: different boxes and printing, but still the same lousy figures. My personal findings: -Don't even buy them if you can't re-grind the mothers, mine (now all 4) went down below +/- 0.05 TIR (absolutely repeatable figures and excellent fit in spindle), for cheap MT3 and MT2 collet holders. Cheers. DIYSwede
Johan,I have just received a Banggood MT2/ER32 collet chuck and it is running out by 0.13mm on the internal taper bore. They really are very poor in managing quality control consistency..Howard.
Buy DIN standard and all should be good. The trouble is that most don't sell DIN as it's a lot more expensive. You get what you pay for. All my collets and their Morse chuck are DIN. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi Rob, I have already ordered collets from a well reputed UK commercial engineering supplier. They have 2 options,guaranteed within .015mm or the more expensive within.005 option. I've chosen the 0.15 mm option at £80.00 GBP. The collet issue was resolved by a mate of mine donating a spare one he had. It runs under half thou imperial so happy with that.
Hi Howard, 0 .015 mm is as good as you would want. DIN 6499 is 0.008 mm from memory. There are several DIN standards for ER collets. When you consider most scroll chucks are .03 to .05 mm TIR you realise that collets within that range are still quite usable, even though it is less than ideal when you consider what they are capable of. I guess we all get a bit carried away with numbers and forget we are talking about 100'ths of a MM. Even so, for precision work you definitely want better than 0.03 mm. Cheers Rob
Thanks Rob there ok for home machinist I have some , and hare & Forbes, cant tell the difference but if you spend 5 minutes to set them you can get then bloody close enough, lathe mill it doesn't matter. Hope your ok with the fires, I have been SH#TTING FOR WEEKS 4KMS west of Moruya NSW, words cannot describe what is and still happening, thanks to all the FIREIES, SES AND EVERYONE INVOLVED CHEERS.
Well, they also take no responsibility for delivery as I ordered tool holders for my lathe quick change post, 2 of the 4 arrived and 17 emails later no satisfaction from bangood. I suspect this lot get seconds from companies that are more reputable and sell them at the low prices to get rid of the rubbish.
Of the collets tested, the 1/4" had the largest error (0.11mm) and also the largest slotting discrepancy. There should NOT be any slotting irregularities in collets. All factors are important for accuracy, from the spindle bearings, to the Morse taper, the collet chuck arbour, the internal chuck tapers, the nose cap, the thread, and the collet itself. Runout/bad machining in any any one of those will undo the good specifications of the rest. You can also get compounding or negating/compensating errors, depending on error alignment. So a full test would be more complete than time allows here. In this case I knew from experience exactly how much TIR there was for all of the above. The end results were what I expected. Cheers Rob
I bought my set of DIN standard ER collets from CTC Tools Ltd on line store. That was before they based it in Europe. I see they do DIN standard for about $10 AU each plus shipping. They are sold out of the full sets, so demand must be there. Cheers Rob
Hi John, I had seen those videos and that was one reason I held back from reviewing BG collets. No point if the product write up basically stays the same. I have mentioned to my contact at BG that collets are one area that needs improving. Hence the new supplier and spec initially looked promising. Cheers Rob
How round, and straight are those random shafts you’re using for the testing? Have you mike’d them around? I use ground carbide shafts (drill rod) for testing. What’s interesting about tolerances is they can add up, or subtract. So, from what I saw, the collet chuck was actually 0.025. A collet therefor, that was itself off by 0.025 could read as anywhere from 0.05 off, to 0.000 off, depending on the orientation of the collet in the chuck. I’ve found, that for precision work, I’ve had to mark my collets and my chuck, and my lathe spindle. Turning the collet around to give the least runout, with the marking so that the marks line up, gives the best results. If you have options as to fitting the chuck in the spindle, I get that done first. You can get a remarkable accuracy doing that. I also have done that with my mill. Though there, with R8, the collet itself is always oriented the same way. Milling cutters of all types, if used for precision cuts (including reamers (specially readers!)), benefit from this. Additionally, I do it for my cabinet saw blades. You can reduce runout at the edge of the 10” blade to a couple of thousandths easily. There are a lot of tricks to increase accuracy in mediocre tooling to levels of much better tooling. That better tooling can often have it improved to almost nothing. Fortunately, collet, or chuck accuracy isn’t an issue for much work when the entirety is done in that fixture, and not moved until it’s after the cutoff of the finished piece. Then, the piece is perfect no matter what the accuracy of the fixture is. It’s really an issue when the cutter is placed in a collet. Then the inaccuracy is added to the diameter of the cutter.
The shafts ar extremely uniform. They are test pieces previously used by Bridgestone tyres. So this is not some flaky amateur shit turned up in the backyard..
These are a prime example of seconds or collets that did not meet higher standards. The factory makes thousands, some don't pass the highest standard, and are then sold on the secondary or tertiary markets. As you saw, some are much better than others. I would toss the junk one or 2, and still feel ahead of the cost curve for the remaining. Cheers
The problem with this is that Bangood don’t make these collets, they will come from whatever supplier has stock. It is a lottery as to what you will receive. It may good or bad or worse. I have bought cheap collets from the east and found that some are good and some are not. Basically the quality control is down to you and the depth of your pocket. If you only need a few sizes you could buy known quality collets. FWW I bought a set from eBay and found only two that were NFG.
I suppose that when you compare the price of high quality engineering collets and chucks, with cheap Chinese stuff, it is obvious that something is going to be missing in the quality and accuracy. You do get what you pay for.
Collets do not have to be accurate. I have a Harbor freight 7x10 lathe and needed to cut threaded rod to various length. the collet chuck and set of ER32 collets grips the threaded rod without allowing the rod to thread into the chuck or spin in the chuck while allowing me to cut any length i want of the 3 foot long rod. works perfect and i do not care if they are centered.
@@Xynudu no i don't have gauge pins. But i am not commenting about how good or bad my set of collets is on the basis of eccentricity measured on an uncertified piece of stuff i have lying around. If i don't know the test pin is straight, smooth, and cylindrical over its whole length to an accuracy an order of magnitude better than the collets i am purporting to measure, then Taylor's principle of gauging says i have to remain agnostic on the quality of the collets. I can't measure and comment on them if i don't have the right tools for the job. I would say my collets are probably more accurate than i have the tools to discern but that's really all i can say with validity. Maybe it would be valid for me to assume that a brand new carbide end mill is pretty straight and cylindrical and smooth (closest thing i have to a gauge pin) but when you're looking for tenths of a thou one needs actual known standards. Not items that were accurately produced once but have had a hard life and been scrapped (maybe because they were damaged and no longer in tolerance???) (and maybe they weren't handled with kid gloves through the scrap yard? ) but still look good because they still hold the original ground finish. Just saying it is unfair and unreasonable to comment on the accuracy with which a manufacturer produced something when he had better tools to measure it than we do.
We don't live in a perfect world and my workshop is not perfect, but you can see from the comparison readings between the DIN collet and the 1/4" Banggood unit that things are not good accuracy wise with the cheap collets. Any error of that magnitude should tell you something. Cheers Rob
If you buy collets inside china, they come with guaranteed TIR and are pretty cheap. Any problems and chinese workshops just return them, so they can't mess with them. So it is definitely possible to get decent chinese collets, just nobody seems to sell them. It almost feels like what is available on ebay and aliexpress etc. are the rejects which even chinese don't touch.
You can buy quality (DIN) from some online stores, just not Ebay or other cheap outlets. Pay the money and you will/should get accuracy. The DIN ones used as a reference are Chinese from an on line store in Europe. It's up to the stores to check the veracity of what they are selling. Chears Rob
The ER collet style is not the best for TIR so things are very relative. I would think it is more of the probability of getting a good TIR with each tightening. Good holder and nut and a good collet gets there with a lot higher probability, but almost always need attention and can never go on the spindle without checking runout. The DIN standard does not specify the accuracy tight enough for modern machines and tools, so it is up the manufacturer to do that.
Thanks for taking the time to review these Rob. I'm still looking to get my first lathe, but these reviews come in handy for future purchases.
Hi Laz, this is the only way you will get a true insight into what the product is like. The write ups can say anything, but you can't argue with test results when done correctly. Cheers Rob
I was thinking of giving these a go... Thanks Rob!
Thanks Rob. Very good info, as always 👍😊
Thanks Rob.
Rob,thanks for the effort to put this test online. As I've said to Johan I have just received a Banggood ER32/MT2 collet chuck and it is very poor on concentricity of collet bore and Morse shank. I agree with you on using a collet block or disc chuck mounted in the 4 jaw and adjust for any runout. Where this falls over is using eccentric collet chucks or collets in the milling machine. Nothing can be done to compensate the runout then. For what its worth I'll also mention that the collet chuck I received has another serious error. The drawbar thread is very skewed to the chuck axis so making it near impossible to locate and tighten the drawbar thread. A very poor offering indeed. Banggood can have it back... Howard
Hi Howard, that's pretty poor. My advice is to take a short/basic video showing the problems and send that to BG with your request for a return. Cheers Rob
I've been wanting to get myself a set of collets for my lathe, they seem so handy. I've wondered about the cheap ones, and got the same feeling that you did from most of the reviews I watched.
I won't shop at banggood anyway, after they sent me the wrong item, and they refused to send the item I ordered (a carbide lathe cutter set), and would only give me a partial refund because the items they sent (boring bars) were "usable". I'll hold out a bit longer and maybe get a good set. I'm trying really hard to go with quality tools these days, but it's always wise to look around to make sure there isn't something quality, but for a little less.
I was wondering about any possible runout in the chuck itself. And at the last second during testing the DIN collet you cleared that up. And it would seem that your DIN collet at .02mm runout may in fact be .000 something if the .02 noted matches the collet chuck itself.
I recall Rollingmetal doing a similar test using a collet chuck where the ER nut threads on the chuck body were clearly running out of kilter. And it showed up by the front flat of the nut running out of kilter too. So perhaps the chuck is just as important as the collets themselves. I'd guess that to be the case.
Hi Bruce, all factors are important for accuracy, from the spindle bearings, to the Morse taper, the collet chuck arbour, the internal chuck tapers, the nose cap, the thread, and the collet itself. Runout/bad machining in any any one of those will undo the good specifications of the rest.
You can also get compounding or negating/compensating errors, depending on error alignment. So a full test would be more complete than time allows here.
In this case I knew from experience exactly how much TIR there was for all of the above. The end results were what I expected.
Cheers Rob
I've got a set of similar Chines hit and miss collets, some are made well and some are made poorly. I'm going to set up a piece of ground bar in the tool post or tailstock and see if I can lap the worst ones into spec with some lapping compound.
You may find that if the slotting is irregular, grinding/lapping the centre will have no effect due to the way the segments pull up unevenly. Cheers Rob
i paid around $350au er40 with holder and are very happy.(7-8 years ago) but 75au ,what do you expect.people buy a lathe for 2-3000 au and then go shopping for cheapest tooling.?just my thoughts.good review rob.
Gday Rob, thank you, I have just got a milling machine and looking around for collets, I don’t mind paying if the product is good but it’s very frustrating when they say there are up to spec and there not, looks like m back on the search, thanks again mate, Matty
Hi Matty, Check out CTC Tools on line store. I got my DIN collets from them. Cheers Rob
Ok thank Rob much appreciated, I’ll check them out.
Thanks for doing this Rob. I purchased the 14 piece set from Banggood back in May and for what I do they are good enough. My only gripe was the set was supposed to be 1/16" to 3/4" what I actually received was no 1/16" and two 5/8"! Cheers, Alan.
Hi Alan, the runout looks worse than it is for most home users. You have to take it in contex and compared to the average three jaw scroll chuck, the runout isn't much different. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi Rob, yes that's a good point. After watching your video I did a quick Google for ER32 DIN standard collets. I found an 18 piece set to DIN 6499 which cost £135 which is about 254AUD. I would think that is beyond the reach of most hobby machinists. If you need collets to just hold work without damaging it, like threaded rod etc and small stuff working over short lengths then the Banggood ones are fine. Cheers, Alan.
If you weed out the few really bad ones the set will turn out half decent. You can buy DIN collets separately for about $10 AU : www.ctctools.biz/er32-collet-close-tolerance-metric-l14800/
It's interesting to see that the full ER32 set is sold out - shows that the demand is there.
I bought my DIN set from this company.
Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu They are a lot more expensive over here. The only ones I could find which actually state they are manufactured to a DIN standard are £19.49 each which I think is about $36 in your money! Cheers, Alan.
pretty much the same as mine! I bought a couple of years ago, but ok for "reasonably" near, I'll have to start replacing them one at time with good stuff!
Cheers Rob
Hi Cliff, the runout looks worse than it is for most home users. You have to take it in contex and compared to the average three jaw scroll chuck, the runout isn't much different. That's not to say it's OK, just that they are still usable for many people. Cheers Rob
Looking along your test pieces there is a variation along the light line which shows that the test pieces are not perfectly round
Nonsense. They all mike in at less than 0.005 mm TIR. These are industrial grade ground pieces.
Thanks Rob, you correctly stated that you get what you pay for. I hope you are safely away from the fires.
Hi Ron. Yes I'm well away from the fires and the fridge is full of beer. So survival should not be an issue ;) Cheers Rob
Hi Rob
Please try this, if you have not already done so - Fit the test piece only approx 3/4 of the way into the collet.
I have also bought a cheap collet set. When the test piece was fully inserted, the run-out was 0.06. When only 3/4 inside the collet, less than 0.01mm.
Hi Patrick. That's not a good idea. ER collets are designed to be most accurate with full length use. If you only use part of the length it will pull up unevenly due to variable collet compression. The fact that you improved your accuracy is co-incidental IMHO (compensating errors that offset each other). I would expect that axial runout would go to hell doing what you suggest, when measured several distances out from the chuck on the test object. You can however vary accuracy by rotating the collet in the chuck so that any errors can compensate (or magnify). Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu
Thank you for the quick response. Will investigate this further 🙂
Hi Patrick. I put a video up on this today which clarifys things : th-cam.com/video/zBKg3992hTw/w-d-xo.html
I'd like to get some ER collets at some point but don't want to throw good money away on cheap junk. Guess I'm having to save a few more nickels for some DIN-rated ones, like your older set. Thanks for sharing, I was wondering whether the QC on newer import collets was any better.
Marginally. At least the burrs are gone and the slotting is better, but still not perfect. Cheers Rob
I have both er32 imp and 25 metric from Banggood and about 1/2 are usable BUT I ground the chuck and bought a ball bearing nut and improved the TRO but still not
100% over the range of sizes . All Sizes had slotting swarf still attached in the cut and on the smaller sizes had issues in the slots ( looks like the slot may have been cut two times and did not line up So check each and mark as good or not use accordingly depending on what you are machining
One way to still get accuracy out of these is with a collet block in the four jaw chuck. That way you can compensate for any runout with jaw adjustment. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Yup, Rob - but only if the collet bore is coaxial (or rather parallel with its tapers- which I found wasn't the case with almost half of my metric & imperial sets: they had both runout and angled bores. Easily checked: Clamp a true axle in the 4-jaw - snug the collet holder on, pointing the MT to the headstock, and rev it up (if you're ballsy):
You'd perhaps be as amazed and sad as I was. :)
@@Xynudu Send me your email and I will send pic of how I did as well Cheers from Canada where its cold but at least not burning up stay safe
bought a set of 11 ER25 mainly metric (3 imperial) from Aliexpress for less than US$15 including shipping. Only one had some residue from machining which was easy to remove. The rest was good and they all were better than the spec in the offer.
What was the advertised spec ? How many collets did you get for $15 ?
3 thou is 0.0762mm, did she state 3tenthou?
Thanks for confirming my similar finding. I have a full set of ER32 and ER11 bangood collets and I suppose you get what you pay for. My 3 jaw scroll chuck has less runout than my bangood collets. As a hobby machinist who builds small engines they are of no use to me. I need to move between lathe, milling machine and rotary table and they dont give me the repeatable accuracy I need.
Hi David, I held off on reviewing BG collets for a very long time, because all the reviews I had seen showed they were poor quality. I finally relented after the recent big positives by the supplier, but that was all a load of crap as expected. So yes, you get what you pay for. Try CTC tools for accurate collets at a reasonable price. Cheers Rob
Thanks rob ! I bought some years ago, i like your test techniques I’ll see how bad is bad.
Hi Sam, you MUST do the test as shown, with a full length uniform test piece and check in several places out from the collet face (for axial run out). It would also pay to rotate the collet in the chuck, to see if you are getting a compounding/negating error.
I was quite surprised how good the axial run out was and think the bad slotting caused most grief, as it affected the uniformity of the collet sections and hence the radial center point was moved under compression. Good luck. Cheers Rob
i bought a import set only good for firing from a catapult
They are not all the same. Buy from a quality company and you can get DIN rated collets. Buy cheap and you will get shit. It's as simple as that. Not too hard to figure out.
I recently bought what I thought was a bargain ER32 collet set exactly the same as these shown. No doubt for the money you get a lot, but if it’s accuracy you’re after specifically then forget it. My holder was running a good .25mm out so I had to bore it out (8degs p/s). Even now, the arbor is running dead true but the 16mm collet I tested is still .05 out. Believe me, regarding tooling, you get what you pay for and I talk from 38 years of workshop experience.
Yes, entirely true. I held off reviewing BG collets for a number of years because the quality just didn't appear to be there. Finally relented when these supposedly higher spec ones were advertised, but the maker's claims were mere fantasy. They were just as bad as the rest. You CAN buy accurate Chinese collet gear from CTC Tools at quite reasonable prices and within the quoted spec. That's where all mine came from. Cheers Rob
Thanks for the unbiased review Rob. I have taken your advice and will be ordering a Din standard set from CTC tools. Are the China collet blocks and chucks worth the trouble or would you go CTC for them also? I would really prefer any mistakes to be my learning errors and not low quality tooling.
Hi Tom, I see they are sold out of DIN sets at the moment, but still have individual collets. I think a lot of people are fed up with the "B" grade stuff being sold all over.
I reviewed a BG collet block recently and it was actually pretty good, but not perfect.
I would definitely get the collet chuck (morse type) from CTC. That is a crucial item.
I will probably go there to buy a replacement collet for the 1/4" with the terrible runout.
Cheers Rob
Hi Rob, thank you for the reply and for answering questions from this noob in Texas. I am reasonably sure this is not the first time you have answered them so thanks again for your patience and willingness to help a beginner.
Thanks Tom
Saved me a lot of headscratching, cheers mate! Looks like Ill be buying the good ones as I need them rather than a set. At least I dont have to buy twice now
Thanks for the video. I have a set of these collets, not from Bangood, but the same boxes. Would drill bits be suitable to test the runout? Thanks again.
Hi Garry, not really, as the drill shank is not long enough to grip and measure on. I actually looked into this when trying to measure TIR on the small diameter sizes. Luckily I had some longer alternatives. Cheers Rob
Bought these a while ago, they are good enough for hobby use. Definitely not for industrial use, but what do you want for under $100 ?
A bit rough here and there, but I’m quite happy with them. 10 years ago I could not even dream about having a collet set because of high price.
Yes August, tooling has never been cheaper. You just have to be selective and decide how good it has to be. Even though the collets reviewed are not as accurate as you would wish, they are still in line with the average three jaw scroll chuck. Cheers Rob
Hi from Ian in New Zealand. I worked for many years with a SecoTools who sold collets in both ER and Din type along with precision collets. As another of your viewers has said you get what you pay for, however in saying that, ER colltes are not accurate. The taper inside the nut. if its not ground true, can pull the collet over causing run out. My advise would be for people running solid carbide cutters you should look at side lock holders as these are simple and accurate but if you run soild carbide cutters in the ER collet chucks you will get uneven depth of cut per tooth due to run out which will reflect in the surface finish and poor tool life. If you want to run collet chucks for this type of cutter I reccomend you buy precision chucks as you will save money on tooling in the long run.
Hi Ian, ER collets are only NOT accurate if you grip something that is not full length, all other collet and chuck specifications being correct. Plus the object you are gripping must be uniform. The large full length compression range will throw up an issue if used incorrectly. If ER was not accurate, then most of industry wouldn't be using them in preference to older styles. ER is the most widely used collet by industry. Cheers Rob
Thanks, Rob! They look and perform exactly like my metric and imperial sets scored 2 years ago. Same boxes, printing and sloppy sawing. The MT2 & MT3 ER 32 Collet holders were waaay worse : +/- 0.1 mm runout and not even concentric to the Morse taper. -How the heck can you even get that in a somewhat decent cylindrical grinder? Otherwise the machining was excellent. Checked a pair of their new holders at a discount half a year ago: different boxes and printing, but still the same lousy figures. My personal findings: -Don't even buy them if you can't re-grind the mothers, mine (now all 4) went down below +/- 0.05 TIR (absolutely repeatable figures and excellent fit in spindle), for cheap MT3 and MT2 collet holders. Cheers. DIYSwede
Johan,I have just received a Banggood MT2/ER32 collet chuck and it is running out by 0.13mm on the internal taper bore. They really are very poor in managing quality control consistency..Howard.
Buy DIN standard and all should be good. The trouble is that most don't sell DIN as it's a lot more expensive. You get what you pay for. All my collets and their Morse chuck are DIN. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Hi Rob, I have already ordered collets from a well reputed UK commercial engineering supplier. They have 2 options,guaranteed within .015mm or the more expensive within.005 option. I've chosen the 0.15 mm option at £80.00 GBP. The collet issue was resolved by a mate of mine donating a spare one he had. It runs under half thou imperial so happy with that.
Hi Howard, 0 .015 mm is as good as you would want. DIN 6499 is 0.008 mm from memory. There are several DIN standards for ER collets.
When you consider most scroll chucks are .03 to .05 mm TIR you realise that collets within that range are still quite usable, even though it is less than ideal when you consider what they are capable of.
I guess we all get a bit carried away with numbers and forget we are talking about 100'ths of a MM.
Even so, for precision work you definitely want better than 0.03 mm.
Cheers Rob
Thanks Rob there ok for home machinist I have some , and hare & Forbes, cant tell the difference but if you spend 5 minutes to set them you can get then bloody close enough, lathe mill it doesn't matter. Hope your ok with the fires, I have been SH#TTING FOR WEEKS 4KMS west of Moruya NSW, words cannot describe what is and still happening, thanks to all the FIREIES, SES AND EVERYONE INVOLVED CHEERS.
Hi Russelle. I feel your pain. Been a tough call this year. I wish you the best. Cheers Rob
Well, they also take no responsibility for delivery as I ordered tool holders for my lathe quick change post, 2 of the 4 arrived and 17 emails later no satisfaction from bangood. I suspect this lot get seconds from companies that are more reputable and sell them at the low prices to get rid of the rubbish.
Of the collets tested, the 1/4" had the largest error (0.11mm) and also the largest slotting discrepancy. There should NOT be any slotting irregularities in collets.
All factors are important for accuracy, from the spindle bearings, to the Morse taper, the collet chuck arbour, the internal chuck tapers, the nose cap, the thread, and the collet itself. Runout/bad machining in any any one of those will undo the good specifications of the rest.
You can also get compounding or negating/compensating errors, depending on error alignment. So a full test would be more complete than time allows here.
In this case I knew from experience exactly how much TIR there was for all of the above. The end results were what I expected.
Cheers Rob
So what would be a good source for them? I've been looking at these for so long , but I've yet to hear any good reviews.
I bought my set of DIN standard ER collets from CTC Tools Ltd on line store. That was before they based it in Europe. I see they do DIN standard for about $10 AU each plus shipping. They are sold out of the full sets, so demand must be there. Cheers Rob
@@Xynudu Thanks.
@@Xynudu Simple old rule Rob, Pay Peanuts and get Monkeys for performance!
Happy New Year to you and ALL, John, Australia.
Hi Rob, I recon I may know you from Rowley Park Days. regards Merv
I doubt it Merv. I only went occasionally (for the free oily dirt bath) ;) Cheers Rob
Rollingmetal tested these a couple of times and had poor results also .
Hi John, I had seen those videos and that was one reason I held back from reviewing BG collets. No point if the product write up basically stays the same. I have mentioned to my contact at BG that collets are one area that needs improving. Hence the new supplier and spec initially looked promising. Cheers Rob
How round, and straight are those random shafts you’re using for the testing? Have you mike’d them around? I use ground carbide shafts (drill rod) for testing.
What’s interesting about tolerances is they can add up, or subtract. So, from what I saw, the collet chuck was actually 0.025. A collet therefor, that was itself off by 0.025 could read as anywhere from 0.05 off, to 0.000 off, depending on the orientation of the collet in the chuck. I’ve found, that for precision work, I’ve had to mark my collets and my chuck, and my lathe spindle. Turning the collet around to give the least runout, with the marking so that the marks line up, gives the best results. If you have options as to fitting the chuck in the spindle, I get that done first. You can get a remarkable accuracy doing that.
I also have done that with my mill. Though there, with R8, the collet itself is always oriented the same way. Milling cutters of all types, if used for precision cuts (including reamers (specially readers!)), benefit from this.
Additionally, I do it for my cabinet saw blades. You can reduce runout at the edge of the 10” blade to a couple of thousandths easily.
There are a lot of tricks to increase accuracy in mediocre tooling to levels of much better tooling. That better tooling can often have it improved to almost nothing.
Fortunately, collet, or chuck accuracy isn’t an issue for much work when the entirety is done in that fixture, and not moved until it’s after the cutoff of the finished piece. Then, the piece is perfect no matter what the accuracy of the fixture is. It’s really an issue when the cutter is placed in a collet. Then the inaccuracy is added to the diameter of the cutter.
The shafts ar extremely uniform. They are test pieces previously used by Bridgestone tyres. So this is not some flaky amateur shit turned up in the backyard..
Ok, that’s good to know, because looking at the ends, they do look like random cutoffs.
I was obviously one of the fortunate ones. Full set of er32 metric collets and bolt on chuck collet holder, and every one of them run true.
You are truly blessed.
These are a prime example of seconds or collets that did not meet higher standards. The factory makes thousands, some don't pass the highest standard, and are then sold on the secondary or tertiary markets. As you saw, some are much better than others. I would toss the junk one or 2, and still feel ahead of the cost curve for the remaining. Cheers
The problem with this is that Bangood don’t make these collets, they will come from whatever supplier has stock. It is a lottery as to what you will receive. It may good or bad or worse. I have bought cheap collets from the east and found that some are good and some are not. Basically the quality control is down to you and the depth of your pocket. If you only need a few sizes you could buy known quality collets. FWW I bought a set from eBay and found only two that were NFG.
Looks like it’s hit and miss then. Thanks
Are you near the bush fires? Keep safe.
Hi Tony, I'm well away from the fires. Thanks for the best wishes. Cheers Rob
I suppose that when you compare the price of high quality engineering collets and chucks, with cheap Chinese stuff, it is obvious that something is going to be missing in the quality and accuracy. You do get what you pay for.
Yes, totally correct.
Collets do not have to be accurate. I have a Harbor freight 7x10 lathe and needed to cut threaded rod to various length. the collet chuck and set of ER32 collets grips the threaded rod without allowing the rod to thread into the chuck or spin in the chuck while allowing me to cut any length i want of the 3 foot long rod. works perfect and i do not care if they are centered.
Depends what you intend to use them for. I can't see the point of buying inaccurate ones when you have the option to do better. Cheers Rob
You need gauge pins to test collets.
So I take it you have a set of these ?
@@Xynudu no i don't have gauge pins. But i am not commenting about how good or bad my set of collets is on the basis of eccentricity measured on an uncertified piece of stuff i have lying around. If i don't know the test pin is straight, smooth, and cylindrical over its whole length to an accuracy an order of magnitude better than the collets i am purporting to measure, then Taylor's principle of gauging says i have to remain agnostic on the quality of the collets. I can't measure and comment on them if i don't have the right tools for the job.
I would say my collets are probably more accurate than i have the tools to discern but that's really all i can say with validity.
Maybe it would be valid for me to assume that a brand new carbide end mill is pretty straight and cylindrical and smooth (closest thing i have to a gauge pin) but when you're looking for tenths of a thou one needs actual known standards. Not items that were accurately produced once but have had a hard life and been scrapped (maybe because they were damaged and no longer in tolerance???) (and maybe they weren't handled with kid gloves through the scrap yard? ) but still look good because they still hold the original ground finish.
Just saying it is unfair and unreasonable to comment on the accuracy with which a manufacturer produced something when he had better tools to measure it than we do.
We don't live in a perfect world and my workshop is not perfect, but you can see from the comparison readings between the DIN collet and the 1/4" Banggood unit that things are not good accuracy wise with the cheap collets. Any error of that magnitude should tell you something. Cheers Rob
If you buy collets inside china, they come with guaranteed TIR and are pretty cheap. Any problems and chinese workshops just return them, so they can't mess with them. So it is definitely possible to get decent chinese collets, just nobody seems to sell them. It almost feels like what is available on ebay and aliexpress etc. are the rejects which even chinese don't touch.
You can buy quality (DIN) from some online stores, just not Ebay or other cheap outlets. Pay the money and you will/should get accuracy. The DIN ones used as a reference are Chinese from an on line store in Europe. It's up to the stores to check the veracity of what they are selling. Chears Rob
The ER collet style is not the best for TIR so things are very relative. I would think it is more of the probability of getting a good TIR with each tightening. Good holder and nut and a good collet gets there with a lot higher probability, but almost always need attention and can never go on the spindle without checking runout. The DIN standard does not specify the accuracy tight enough for modern machines and tools, so it is up the manufacturer to do that.
not all of them are bad
You get what you pay for mate.😁
METRIC RULES
I'm sure he's knowledgeable but I cannot understand what the hell he's saying
these collets are trash. don't be lied to. the sizing is all wrong. Order 3 sets and you'll see what i mean.