Starter Clutch Repair for Yamaha MBK Spy 50 Minarelli engine
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2020
- For:
Air Cooled Motori Minarelli 4SB
Vertical Engine
Yamaha MBK SPY Booster Bump Zuma BWS Aprilia SR
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great help mate, i totally disassembled my prebug 2 years ago and only just now rebuilding it . i had forgotten how it went back together, cheers
I know I have projects like that too, time just gets away. Have a look at the parts manual, I find it helpful. Most bits are available so don’t worry
Thanks for sharing this very useful info. This helped me get the roller pins back in correctly on my Vino.
No problem, glad it helped you out.
great video, thanks. I put the start cluth the wrong way in and it didn't start, thank you
Glad you found it useful.
Exelent and thanke you
Hello, I also have a question, what is the name of the part that has two screws and a pinion that is driven by the electric motor and spins the bendix to start the engine?
Do you mean idle gear plate? Number 9 in the diagram ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/3990162/cw50rs-4va1-1995-999-a/starter
@@Yoke. an instagam you have to be able to communicate more easily and show you what I want to look for
@@gamerzone3616 I do not, sorry , but email me on xxxxxxxxxxxxx all one word. Seems you got sorted.
I lost the little metal cylinders whilst disassembling it from my aerox. Do you think I can buy them at my local shop?
It’s not a part you can buy on it’s own, but you can buy a spurious one for about €20, I think it’s around €50 new from yamaha. It’s just a small peace of metal but it has to be the right size and weight so you won’t find that easily
Hi Yoke,
Awesome Video, been a great help, my daughter has just literally done her CBT and we got her a CW50 so same starter setup as this. However we think it has a 65cc big bore kit on it and the electric starter seems to slip and wont turn the engine over, remove the plug and it does.
You mentioned changing the gear ratios in the video. Do you have any idea what I would need to change them too and where to get the new gears? She's really struggling with the kick start being 16 7 stone and a weaklin lol.
Cheers for any help you might be able to give.
Alan
You may need to do a little more investigation. I have a 70cc kit and it turns just fine, yes there are options out there to change the ratio for the starter but it shouldn’t slip. I would look at two things here, since you suspect it’s modified , maybe someone assembled this incorrectly when they were messing with the variator. Have a look at the schematic. People do funny things when modifying cvt engines, they sometimes place shims in the wrong place thinking it will make the bike go faster. Look at the link, there are two washers on the starter gearing, make sure they are the right way around. Or if not that might be the starter or starter clutch is worn and does not lock, in this case replace it. They are very cheap. Racing planet sell them. I hope this helps and welcome to the channel, Adam ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/3980319/cw50-3ww1-1990-999-b/starter
@@Yoke. Thanks for the ultra fast reply.
before stripping and looking I have brought the starter clutch parts, mind set of its an old bike, 14k on the clock so if stripping to investigate if it was put together correctly, Ill just replace with new parts :)
In regards to weights the variator has 4g and 7g in it.
I have no idea how scooters work or what the weights do lol
@Windy Edges Good thinking, they are not expensive bits anyway. Just make sure that it all corresponds to the schematic that I sent you in the link. I suspect your missing a washer and be careful as there are two different size washers there. As far as weights go, the bigger the weight, the slower the acceleration, but ultimately better top end speed as it pushes the belt further up the variator. The variator takes 6 weights so you can mix 3 of one type and 3 of another, or 6 of one or 3 of one type. Make sure they are balanced otherwise it will vibrate like a diesel. I suggest start with 6x 4g rollers and then see how your acceleration and top speed is, then go up or down depending on what you want. If acceleration is too aggressive and top speed is low then go up in weights. There are other factors too but they just complicate things, like your rear pulley, that’s has a contra spring in the clutch assembly, it’s purpose is to grip the belt and then gently release depending on rpm, only go near that if you suspect belt is slipping. The springs in the clutch on the rear pulley are there to bite at a certain rpm, again if your clutch is engaging leave it alone. This type of CVT is actually pretty tricky to setup right and takes a bit of time as your looking for the perfect balance and smooth across the Rev range. The Japanese call this JINBA ITTAI. I say just leave the rear pulley alone and only work with the rollers. In my opinion the combination of 7 and 4gram rollers gives you 5.5gram and that a pretty stock setup so that’s a good starting point. Any other questions, just ask.
@@Yoke. Well the saga continues.....
stripped it all down, and replaced the starter clutch.
re-assembled it all and tried the starter (we will ignore the fact the system doesn't work through the relay but that's another story)
Well the starter spins, it turns the clutch, the belt moves and it tries turning the engine.
BUT........
It is soooo sluggish and not fast enough to turn the bike over to start it (It does turn it over just slowly)
It has a brand new battery on it, but just incase I tried a spare battery, same issue, so I ran jump leads from my XSR to the CW so it would have a bit more ooommmmppppphhhhhh, still very sluggish.
Can I over tighten this in anyway?
Any suggestions?
Thanks Again :)
Ok so assuming you assembled it correctly and the starter is healthy. When you say it’s not wired through a relay, this would suggest it has an alternative cable to the original one, usually the starter cable is the biggest cable in the whole bike as it needs the most current to flow through it. If you take the jump lead put it on the starter terminal directly and touch it off the battery positive, does it turn the engine? Seems like your alternative wiring might not be working well, as cables may be too skinny to deliver the high current, if it’s not that then it’s the starter itself. But have a look at the circuit and correct that first.
Shouldn't there be grease on these? Especially the big bearing as that always spins along with the engine?
Have a look at page 4-24, yamaha recommend only one part to be greesed with a lithium soap based greese. The large inner bearing this is because the belt shreds and will created dust inside. It’s mostly a dry assembly
Hi mate. Having issue with this thing. Opened the case to see what’s going on is i can only hear the started motor spin when pressing electric start. And yes the small round starter gear does spin with the starter cog but won’t spin the starter clutch? So can’t start the engine
You will need to remove it, one of the cogs might have rounded off, the middle cog has two sides to it, looks like the rear cog, that’s the one with the fewer teeth is not engaging the clutch cog. Either that or there is a shim or spacer issue were the clutch and middle cog don’t align. Did you modify anything there from original?
I have been using stage6 variator with it and have not modified anything else. I did replace the retaining plate, that one which is bolted on 2 sides to hold the smaller cog in place as the old one slimmed down on that part which extends to the starter clutch cog. It’s weird coz when i manually turn the cvt belt both the cogs turn but not when i use the electric start.
Ok so here is what I think it may be, since you previously removed that middle cog. Maybe you forgot about the two washers or arranged them in a different way. There is one in front and one behind the cog, so as it spins up at speed, it slips and misses the cog at the back. Could that be it? www.oemmotorparts.com/oem5.asp?M=Yamaha&T=CW%20RS%20SPY%20%2050&Y=1997&L=YA-CW-RS-SPY-50&O=STARTER&F=YA-CW-RS-SPY-50_ai&L2=YA-CW-RS-SPY-50_ai
Yoke i will check on it, it might be the case. Thanks will update
It really sounds like something silly like that. Also when you have it off, you will be able to see if there is any rounding on the cog, or shinny where it’s making a connection, the starter is a lot of torque so the fitment has to be right.
mate is there a bush that goes over the crank between the oil seal and the starter clutch? i cant seem to find one in my box of spares
Is it number 11? ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/3990155/cw50rs-4va1-1995-999-a/crankshaft-piston
@@Yoke. yes thats the one i am trying to find. its supposed to have one right?
@@TheCraigant yeah you need one, but Yamaha/MInarelli use this on lots of scooters so it’s available to buy, and it’s pretty cheap too.
Hey man just wondering do you know the size of the 'pistons' in the starter clutch. Or is there anywhere I can purchase these pistons separately?
I don’t know their size and I don’t have a spare one here on the shelf but a replacement clutch is only about €20or $20if your in the states. www.wemoto.com/bikes/mbk/cw_50_rs_booster_ng/95/picture/starter_clutch_assembly that’s the full assembly or German website here www.mvh-shop.de/Starter-clutch_1
@@Yoke. thanks alot man. I ordered a new starter clutch. Still can't get the bike to start, I think it's because I'm missing the washers that come between the nut and variation assembly 😔
@@alryley2 what is the actual issue, is the starter spinning? And if it’s spinning what’s spinning with it or not with it?
hello I have a problem with my yamaha aerox 2007 because in the starter clutch between the shaft seal and the starter clutch I don't have this sleeve, just someone didn't put it in and I can't find it anywhere do you know the size of this sleeve or do you have a link with the name of this sleeve so I can buy it?
Hope this helps: ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5462022/yq50-2007-3c6f-poland-black-metallic-x/starter
@@Yoke.yes that is it thanks bro
@@igorratajczyk6477 no hassle
Hi what is that washer called that goes on first before the starter clutch thanks in advance the big washer
They call it a washer plate, number 4 on the diagram ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/3984974/cw50-3wv5-1994-999-a/starter
Scarabeo è lo stesso ? Io nn ho quella rondella .....grande
oops I greased the starter clutch pins and bearing... should I get new ones or clean it?
Clean it out with some thinners or brake cleaner or Vodka 😀
@@Yoke. Any lubrication required? Anywhere? Dry metal on dry metal? Eek!
@@bobroberts5002 no lubricant, if you lubricate it the dust and fibres from the belt will clog it up. Clean it out well and assemble it dry.
Do you think this thing can cause my rear wheel not to spin? The variator, clutch, belt looks good but they not opening up to make the wheel spin.
I would need a little more information, will the back wheel not move at all? Is your model brake disc or drum on the back? Any oil leak round the rear hub? Is the starter spinning? Was the bike driving normally before this or did you buy it like that?
@@Yoke. yes back wheel does move if u do it yourself, it has a drum brake, there no oil leak, the starter is spinning and i did buy it like this, the seller said it only need carby clean which is bs. It just the variator not moving out to make the clutch engage.
@@Kdjoao Ok this should be easy enough to diagnose. If you use the starter kick does the engine turn over? And can you turn the engine over by hand or is there an obstruction there? ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/3990197/cw50rs-4va1-1995-999-b/starter have a look at this schematic and see if everything is there. I suspect you are missing one of the two washers on the small cog, or they are in the wrong way around but have a look at the drawing first.
@@Yoke. dont think thats daigram is for my scooter. I have a 1998 zuma 50cc. But if u still want to see what missing us number 19,20 and 3,4. I think u might be right about the washers, it didnt see any when i took the variator off.
www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/5003ae0ef8700212fc83bcbe/starter looks to be identical. If 19/20 are missing then you cant kick the bike. They are housed in the engine cover. You should be able to get all this stuff no problem
Great video my man! I currently have a loose starter clutch in my Aerox casing (no starter motor or retaining plate) and I am getting a tremendous vibration at 40mph or higher. Problem I am having is that if I remove the whole starter clutch, there is then play in the front pulley once everything is put back together minus the starter clutch.
Baffling my noggin lol.
Aerox is a slightly different engine. But anyway, if you checked the parts manual and all the shims and components are where they should be. Maybe it’s the rollers getting stuck, that would cause vibrations if they are not travelling properly. Check for uneven wear on the rollers.
1000 👍🏻
What is that plastic ring on variator pin? 11:00
Stop the plates from pushing the the plates together, and therefore does not allow the belt to run all the way up the pulley. It was a stock setup. Thing about a cvt, it’s tricky to get the tuning right, I usually change one thing at a time, if you go at everything, you end up with a headache.
@@Yoke. Thank you for answer!
@@Yoke. isn't that the malossi restrictor washer, therefore restricting your speed?
@@Ryan-ug1xw you can see the reply for what it was doing, I don’t have this washer in place anymore. But your right, the two plates can’t meet unless you remove it, there is a flip side to that, you starting position for the belt on the plate is different. What I will say depending your setup, power, Rev limits etc, you may want to leave this as you might be happier with lower top speed on the pulley but higher rpm, so ultimately higher speed, but you might want this quicker. There are so many variables it’s difficult to answer, it’s best if you see power delivery on a dyno and are able to adjust. Think of it this way, the power on your bike is the power you have, by adjusting the variator, weights, all you are doing is moving the power band, you can’t create more power. It’s just gearing, that’s all
Will this video work on yamaha aerox yq 50
It will work on all Air cooled minarelli vertical engines, (cylinder is on top of the engine, and its air cooled)the list is quite long but lots of bikes use these engines. I think the YQ50, is horizontal but clutch should be very similar, if not identical. www.google.com/search?q=yamaha+yq50+aerox+clutch+starter&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjGqZ7F5_XsAhWZWRUIHcgGCG8Q2-cCegQIABAC&oq=yamaha+yq50+aerox+clutch+starter&gs_lcp=ChJtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1pbWcQAzoECCMQJzoECCEQClDZFlimIGD0IWgAcAB4AIABnwGIAZgFkgEDOC4xmAEAoAEBwAEB&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-img&ei=bWSpX4a_HZmz1fAPyI2g-AY&bih=695&biw=1080&prmd=isnv&rlz=1C9BKJA_enIE885IE886&safe=strict&hl=en-GB#imgrc=gBZEPqPB1rKwWM Its the exact same
@@Yoke. thanks you very much for link
Try this site for part numbers ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/
Thanks I use pedparts some time . what roll would you say use on yamaha aerox yq 50 cc
In stock setup it’s between 5g-6g, adjusting that will not give you any real performance gain as your just moving the powerband. It’s a benefit if your extremely heavy and your bike is taking off very slowly, that’s really the only time there is any benefit. The slider type rollers are nice cause the move more smoothly. Bike as stock is setup in the optimum way, any adjustments should be done with caution as a cvt is tricky to modify well.
Hey my starter works but it won’t spin any of the starter gears
Check if the two washers on the starter gear are in place, number 8:ie.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/3990125/cw50rs-4td6-1995-999-c/starter . Take the side cover off and get someone to try and start it to see why the gears are not engaging
@@Yoke. I took it apart nothing moves I believe it th
The 1 gear will not move
@@kylechupick2232 gear number one is spun by gear number 6, this should have two special washers on it, number 8. Are there on it? Cause it sounds like one of the washers is missing or in the wrong place.
@@Yoke. I can send ya a pic
Tis is My problem
Yeah it’s very common as the belt wears the dust has to go somewhere