Why LeBron Is Still Not The GOAT
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 มี.ค. 2023
- #NBAalltimeleadingscorer #LosAngelesLakers #LeBronJames #KareemAbdulJabbar #MichaelJordan #BillRussell #LarryBird #MagicJohnson #KobeBryant #WiltChamberlain #GOATdebate
Congrats LeBron on this amazing achievement. Sorry for lateness on this video as it took a long time to make because it is a long video. LeBron James is better than 99.9999% of those who've ever played in the NBA but he is still not the GOAT. Here is why.
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![[UNCUT] รัฐสั่งหยุดปล่อยคลื่น! แต่หยุดพลังปะทุ “น้องหญิง” ไม่ได้ I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RmQh47eIiV0/mqdefault.jpg)
you're talking nothing but the truth, MJ is still the GOAT.
Goat is stupid, MJ said he didn't play against those players out of his era, so he can't say who is better.
@@yumengyan1520You don't get it. Players don't say it. Everyone else does. It's called being humble and having respect for that game. Let everyone else say who the GOAT is.
@@yumengyan1520 facts!!! this goat 🐐 debate makes no sense air Jordan is more of a killer and the king is a more complete player in every facet of the game and is way more durable in a way bigger package myG!!!
@@tonycrawford3818LGB can beat MJ one on one easily.
@@yumengyan1520 It's called not being an insecure self promoter.
I appreciate you included Larry Bird in your arguments. I have L Bird higher than LBJ on my top list, due to exactly what you stated.
I also thought about including how Larry Bird told his opponents what he was about to do and would still school them and how he scored 47 in a game while playing left handed but I thought the video is already long enough. That tells me how Larry Bird mastered the art of confidence more than LeBron ever has. LeBron is still a way more confident player than most guys who've ever played like he's obviously way more confident than DeMar Derozan but there are levels to this and LeBron's level of confidence is nowhere near Michael Jordan, Kobe, Larry Bird or Magic Johnson's level.
Bro you’re absolutely delusional and a Lebron hater if you have Bird over him at this point.
4 rings>3 rings
4 FMVP’s>2 FMVP’s
13x All NBA 1st team > 9x
6x All Def > 3x All Def
4x MVP > 3x MVP
19x All Star > 12x All Star
Bird was only better at rebounding and shooting and that’s literally it. Lebron is way more athletic, a better defender at both of their peaks, and averages more points than Bird
@@Jay_draco I can only give LBJ the longevity award against other great. The dude flops, barely play full season, trades his teammates, move from team to team, struggle at free throws and worst of all. He self proclaimed as the GOAT and does the crowning gesture. How f*cking cringy is that?
To me and most people, he hasn't pass Kareem, Kobe and Duncan. And definitely not MJ. I would've given him more respect if he stayed at Cleveland win one or two chips along with his accomplishments.
@@Airlxs23 literally to you maybe, but to most people he passed Kareem, Kobe, and Duncan years ago. Unless you’ve been living under a rock then you know this too. It’s not like you ever see Kareem/Kobe/Duncan vs. Jordan debates. The vast majority of people with any type of basketball knowledge recognize the Lebron is top as of rn. Those guys have a case but it’s just not as strong as Lebron’s. The only guy with a stronger GOAT case than Lebron is Jordan now
Man yaw MFS on that fentanyl!!!!
I did love the fact you started comparing Kareem and LeBron at age 38. All the LeBronners prefer to go with year 20. Ignoring the 4 year age difference.
I did want to talk about Kareem before the NBA because his UCLA career may have been the best college career of all-time and before anyone says LeBron didn't need college, Kareem wouldn't have needed college either if the NBA allowed players to go from high school straight to the NBA.
Yeah but you have to remember LeBron has been starting in the NBA since he was 18yrs. Way more wear and tear on his body..Kareem hasn't played as many games in the NBA as LeBron
@@andrewmatzo8167 4 years of college basketball and 3 national championships isn't any wear and tear at all? Or also how Kareem only played under 70 games once in his NBA career and played all 82 games 5 times while LeBron never has played 70 games in a season with the Lakers? Want to consider that too?
@@andrewmatzo8167 Right that Kareem hasn't played as many games for his whole career but still, Kareem played more games per season.
@@showtimenick824 why make it that complicated.. look at played minutes and compare both with same min. played... and boom u got hard facts bottom line... no debate at all
One of the best takes on The G.O.A.T. debate I’ve heard.
Thank you!
I appreciated the open mindedness to not unquestioningly buy into the "it must be between MJ and LeBron" narrative.
@@vultureguy33 I just saw this now but THANK YOU! Most of the people commenting are Jordan fans and as much as I'm on their side, I wouldn't be surprised if a good portion of them didn't actually care to listen to what I had to say and just gave their take on this saying Jordan this Jordan that. He's undeniably better than LeBron but I could argue in favor of Kareem or Bill Russell too.
I'm most disappointed with Bron because his whole career I herd he makes his teammates better or he had no help in Cleveland. . I couldn't tell you who he made better and when he had the opportunity to prove that with ball Ingram and kuzma he literally gave up on them boys and traded that whole squad. Then they all turned around and started balling away from bron I feel like I been lied to his whole career
Or how Chris Bosh went right back to scoring 21 points per game after LeBron left before his blood clots. I've noticed from LeBron Big 3s the 3rd guy always has to really sacrifice a lot when playing with LeBron. I once thought you can say he made Mo Williams and Mario Chalmers better but when looking at their stats, no he didn't at all.
His casual fans always recite "LeBron carried bums in Cleveland" - yet those "bums" won 61 and 66 games with a Top 5 defense and Top 5 3-point shooting...all to cover up LeBrons defensive deficiency and clear the lanes due to a crap outside shooting game. Shoot, Cleveland was actually competitive against the Spurs in 2007 DESPITE LeBron, not because of him.
@@showtimenick824Yep, ask Kevin Love. They wanted him to go away from his strengths and make him a 3-point shooter.
@@bwink23 I will say those weren't championship caliber supporting casts but I do agree the notion that LeBron got no help is very overblown because of what you pointed out.
@@showtimenick824LeBum was so effing close to 2-8 in the Finals including a LeBubble ring, what does "championship caliber" actually mean for LeBum? What does that entail, how much help does he really need lol..We also talking about a dude with 2 LeBronze medals in international competition.
3 years of college bball + 2 years baseball + 15 years in The NBA = *20* years longevity for Jordan
It wasn't really 15yrs. Year 2 he played like 15 games the year he came back he played 17. So it's effectively like 13
@@nathanmckenzie904 oh
You have a point there but how he dropped 49 and 63 in the first round against the 86 Celtics while lacking help a lot more than LeBron ever did is definitely impressive. He shouldn't get a pass for 18 points on low efficiency when the Bulls got swept but the first 2 games are a way better example of doing all you can against a better team than LeBron ever has. Before anyone says game 1 of the 2018 Finals, how about his 0 points in overtime of that game?
Yup
This is a real Laker fan right here. You should upload more, brother.
Thank you so much and I would love to but my work schedule has interfered with my ability to upload more. When I have the money to pay someone to edit videos for me, you can fully expect me to upload more.
@@showtimenick824 Could I try it out? I live in a country where our living expenses are significantly lower than in the stateside. Let me know if there's a way I could reach you out.
@@crigonalgaming1258 I'm actually in Japan. I've been here the last 6 years. If you're wondering, yes I do speak Japanese but English is far and away my first language. But you want to edit my videos? If so the links to my social media are in the description of this video so absolutely feel free to hit me up and we can negotiate!
You have facts on top of facts. Never had someone explain in such detail and clarity👏
Thank you! I hope you're able to stay tuned for more and if you want to check out anything I've done in the past, I would definitely love to have you as part of the team! Now I will admit though that when I first started out on TH-cam, I didn't realize a lot of the things I said and you can say I was a prisoner of the moment with the Lakers on a championship run. The Lakers won the championship on my birthday so for that in a year that was otherwise terrible, I'll forever thank LeBron and AD but that doesn't mean I'll lie to my audience. I fully realized how LeBron really only fully buys in when he gets his way after he quit when AD got hurt against the Suns in the playoffs but I should've remembered how he quit after the AD trade fell through in 2019.
@@showtimenick824 I will definitely check out your video catalogue.
Appreciate the truth and your efforts
I appreciate creators like you who speak truth against the cult mentality. Keep it up
Gotta do what I gotta do! I appreciate your support!
💯💯
THANK YOU for going beyond the numbers. It's about time someone actually took a magnifying glass to LeBron's career. Everything you said I already knew and was waiting on someone to actually say it. Thank you.
Thank you for tuning in! I'll admit there was a time when I didn't realize a lot of the things I said. I was never a Bronsexual though. I always rooted for the Lakers and Knicks before ever rooting for LeBron but since LeBron has been a Laker and I've been able to watch him on a regular basis, I started realizing things I didn't realize before and looked back at his Finals losses, I remember laughing when people used Finals record in a GOAT argument but now I know of course it matters. It isn't end all be all but I was the foolish one for not thinking it's a good argument. I at least never defended how bad he was in the 2011 Finals as I remember how terrible he was and all the 4th quarter jokes like it was yesterday, but his other 5 losses, he absolutely deserves to be blamed for too, 2011 was just his worst one out of his 6 Finals losses.
@@showtimenick824blamed for what？
So MJ shouldn’t be blamed for the first round exits without pippen ？
What would happen if Jordan played against those KD warrior teams？
Ever thought of that？
@@showtimenick824I do agree he was terrible in 2011, that was definitely a choke job but the other five, maybe not so much.
If I really wanted to pick one. Year other than 2011 to blame him, it’ll be 2014.
Finals losses do matter but it depends on the situation.
Can Jordan take a bunch of scrubs like Eric snow to the finals？let along winning it. If he can, then I’ll call him the goat
@@user-rn1cu8cv8b Another Bronsexual huh? 😂 Watch the video instead of arguing just to argue. I put it all out there for you. Also, did LeBron ever score 63 points in a playoff game or 49 in a playoff game in the same series? There's no way the 86 Bulls without Jordan are as good as any Cavaliers team without LeBron that ever went to the playoffs. Michael Jordan played against plenty of elite teams. What do the KD Warriors have anything to do with how bad LeBron was in his first 2 Finals anyways? Stop listening to dolts like Nick Wright.
@@user-rn1cu8cv8b In THAT cupcake Eastern Conference where the Cavs' first 2 opponents were .500 teams and the first round opponent was without 2 of their stars? LMFAO THAT'S A CAKEWALK FOR ANY SUPERSTAR! Of course Jordan would easily make the Finals if he had to go through that! He also most certainly wouldn't get swept by that Spurs team. All 6 times Jordan went to the Finals, he beat far better teams than that version of the Spurs.
Very comprehensive video and argument. Good stuff. Jordan is the GOAT to me and LeBron is in my top 10 though I don't have him top 5 (he's 6 or 7 for me). I don't think the GOAT argument for him is convincing (because any person who is trying to be objective should consider his mercenary advantage, playoff flameouts, and losing finals record in the calculus) and I agree that that ship sailed long ago but the media has tried its hardest to move goalposts in order to continually revive it.
On the LeBron and Magic comparison as passers: Magic averaged slightly more turnovers than LeBron (3.9 to 3.5) but he also averaged far more assists (11.2 to 7.3). And so in terms of that ratio, Magic was far more efficient as a passer for his career than LeBron has been. Just wanted to throw in the counterbalance since you mentioned how LeBron fans might bring up Magic averaging more turnovers.
Curiously, LeBron is about one percent more efficient than Westbrook as a passer, yet the narratives about the two couldn't be more different. LeBron gets praised as a GOAT passer who is so "gifted" whereas Westbrook gets criticized as a clown passer and turnover machine. I think the truth is that they're both good and sometimes very good passers when they want to be, but they're natural scorers first and passers second.
They're both similar to Jordan in that respect, actually. During Jordan's 24 game stint at point guard in '89 he averaged 10.7 assists (and 9.2 rebounds). In the '91 finals he averaged 11.4 assists. LeBron fans suggest he's a better all around player because Jordan was just a scorer? Baloney.
Thanks for the praise and the comment! I really appreciate that you took the time to watch 43 minutes of me talking and I appreciate your input too! I didn't even talk about MJ's passing but yeah assists alone can't tell the whole story. You're absolutely right about LeBron and Westbrook being score first players that are really good passers when they want to be. Which is a lot of the time but having the ball a lot does help. Also a lot of assists today are generously given and when looking for footage for this video, like one LeBron assist to Chris Bosh in his 8 point Finals game, yeah LeBron got the assist but if you watched it, you know that's what the Mavericks wanted him to do and Bosh made the shot ok live with the result. You still made LeBron get passive even with 38 year old Jason Kidd guarding him.
Bro I salute you man no lies told my guy …who’s your top 10 all time
@@godsfavorite6905 Good question. Honestly, that's a tough question to answer but if I have to, MJ, Bill Russell, Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Larry Bird, Wilt, LeBron, Tim Duncan, and 10th could either be Hakeem Olajuwon or Shaq.
@@showtimenick824 mine is 1 Jordan 2 Kobe 3 Kareem 4 Tim Duncan 5 LEBRON.
@@godsfavorite6905 You gotta have Bill Russell somewhere in the top 3 at worst in my opinion. Honestly I think he and Jordan are 1A and 1B.
MJ would easily have over 40,000 points had he never retired twice. MJ said it himself that it's all about the games you win and the rings you collect. MJ the GOAT! He is in a category all by himself.
He'd also easily score 40 points per game if he played in today's game where the rules favor the offense as much as they do, especially perimeter players.
@@showtimenick824 exactly! I think handchecking rules should be brought back. There was a way to play tough defense with clean handchecking rules. To me it would make the game more competitive and exciting. Just my humble opinion tho. 😉
@@jasonmardoniomeza1711 It's unfortunate that nowadays the regular season just has to be such a drag. I can still enjoy the playoffs but the regular season just doesn't get taken seriously enough anymore and it's sad.
@@showtimenick824 exactly.. if MJ only avgd his Wizard Years 20 ppg In 5 more years hed be over 40k points All time🤣🤣🤣
@@KrispyKleenex365 Or if he didn't tear his meniscus because he averaged 25 points per game before the meniscus tear.
Imagine if Kareem were able to join the league right after high-school.
I actually was about to throw in a segment about that but then couldn't find a way to make that flow with everything else I said in this video. You are right though as he was more than good enough to go straight to the NBA from high school if that were allowed in his day and he had maybe the greatest collegiate career of all-time!
There are things that I feel MJ does not get credit for is the fact that he played in a stacked Eastern Conference. People say that his opponents in the finals were weak which feels like the reason why people say that is just because he was never pushed to a game 7 in the finals. He is a big reason why players like Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller, etc have never won a single NBA Championship. He average 30 points in an era that vastly superior than today in terms of defense.
I made a whole video on this too!
Great job!! They need to run this on ESPN six times a day, 7 days a week.
I would definitely love that! I like my platform here better than how much I think I'd like ESPN even if ESPN pays me a lot more because I don't need to sugarcoat anything here. I'm my own boss on this platform.
VERY comprehensive video! These are exactly the same points I have been making for many, many, many, many years. LeBron is the most overrated athlete in NBA history. His own peers don't like him, former NBA players don't like him but are forced to talk about him because of a paycheck, and LeBron will never escape the shadow of Jordan and Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant won five out of seven NBA titles. Michael Jordan won six out of six. And LeBron has only won 4 out of 10, losing to Steph Curry, his NBA peer, three times out of four appearances. There is absolutely no way he can be goated when his peer has beat him three times! I'm sorry but personally I feel like LeBron is nothing but a big joke. I know his fans hate to hear stuff like that, but in my eyes and someone who's actually coached this game and played it since I was 11, I have never seen a dude like him as athletically talented as LeBron has been in his career, who needs so much help, need so many players, needs so much from the refs, Adam Silver, and anybody else that can help him out, only to win four out of 10 NBA titles many of them having an asterix behind them. What a joke of a legacy. Hearty...har....har.😒
I appreciate your comment and your input! I at least got one hater comment but ok if anymore of his fans see this one which I have a feeling they will, oh they'll definitely get butt hurt! 😂 Especially the joke of a legacy part because I definitely didn't go that far. I agree he shouldn't need as much help as he gets for how athletically gifted he is. Sure everyone needs help but you also have to make your teammates better which he doesn't and he started the whole super team movement. I actually don't know about his all of his peers hating him because he and Dwyane Wade are tight. His teammates actually usually do praise him but there are definitely some that did not enjoy playing with him like Kyrie Irving, but funny how Kyrie has wanted to reunite with LeBron. We saw Brandon Ingram yell "LeBrick at the end of a Lakers-Pelicans game last year, that should tell us all we need to know about gow Brandon Ingram feels about LeBron quitting on the team after a failed attempt at trading him and then LeBron actually getting him traded that summer. Funny enough there was a time when I used to think a lot of the things I said in this video was hating. At least not the 2011 Finals because I saw him fold with my own eyes and remember the all the 4th quarter jokes. I used to praise LeBron a lot more than I do now but I was at least never a a Bronsexual. I at least never rooted for him over the Lakers or Knicks. When I got to see him more since he became a Laker is when I started to see the reality about LeBron. Particularly when he quit against the Suns in 2021. Although I at least do remember calling him out for his bad body language on a facebook post during his second stint with the Cavs, I really realized it's a bad habit of LeBron since he became a Laker not just a once in a while thing. Wilt may have a losing record in the Finals too and him not winning enough is why I don't consider him the GOAT but at least he lost to much better teams than LeBron has ever faced in the Finals including the KD Warriors.
@@showtimenick824 Yeah. I hate it for true Lakers fans. And I like the Lakers. I just hate what LeBron has brought to a global brand organization. We'll see...lol
@@wizmanballin8498 I've loved the Lakers since I was 7 years old and I'm 29 now. It makes me sick how much the LeBron cult has poisoned our fanbase. Especially Shannon Sharpe, the way he fanboys LeBron while sitting courtside. How he wasn't banned from the arena after what happened against the Grizzlies is beyond me. I don't like Skip Bayless either but guaranteed if Skip Bayless did this to LeBron while courtside, he would've been kicked out and banned.
@@showtimenick824 Absolutely. Lebron has tons of people paid off to be his hype train. When he leaves the league, I think we'll all breathe a bit easier...lol. It's also rumored Adam Silver may be leaving the NBA next year to go to Disney...so we'll see.
LeBron is also personally responsible for his Defensive assignments and players guarding him to receive Finals MVP lol (Iggy, Kawhi, KD twice). Not my GOAT
Funfact... Lebron never had a major injury until AFTER he played his first and only 82 game season. You know the feat that MJ did 9x, and was 1 game shy of that being 10X. Bron's injuries have now plagued him his entire Lakers career. Also not counting this season (22-23), he's missed on average 10 games a season for his past 19 seasons. That may not sound like a lot, but considering 10 missed games x 19 seasons = 190 games missed. That is well over two FULL regular seasons worth of games (164) that he's not played.
And only got the bubble chip because of the plandemic break. I'm sure him or AD would've gotten hurt in that season too if it was in its entirety. I don't bother with the goat debates between MJ and lebron because there isn't one and never was one. Only drummed up by this extremely influenced media. If you saw both their careers, it's plainly obvious Jordan was better. The goat debate in my opinion involves a handful of players. Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Russell.
Not to mention Jordan played all 82 games, 37 minutes a game at 40 years old...and the year before, he played every game at 39 years old until his meniscus tore in his knee...even after that happened, he tried all he could to play on it. What followed were most of the worst games of his career, he didn't care, he tried to play ..Warrior mentality
@@mpound97 We don't actually know what would've happened if the season never got suspended and it's not like everyone played well in the bubble. Giannis and Paul George or Kawhi in that game 7. It definitely was LeBron's least impressive championship out of his 4 though as fans in the stands do make a difference. The Heat were injured in the bubble, they were without Goran Drafic and Bam Adebayo for a couple Finals games. It likely would've been Lakers in 7 if they were healthy and with MJ, I doubt it would've have been more than 5 games even if the Heat were healthy. Rondo was injured in the first round before becoming the glue guy in the championship run though, lets not forget that.
I agree there never was a debate between MJ and Jordan, it's only something the media and the LeBron cult have shoved down our throats. I think your top 4 is definitely solid. Larry Bird and Kobe deserve to be mentioned too and in fact Larry Bird's Easy was tougher than Magic Johnson's West and Larry Bird was a better defender than Magic. Kobe's 2004 Finals loss does kill his GOAT case as much as I love him and 2008 Finals and getting swept by the Mavs in 2011 even though Pau Gasol was more at fault doesn't help Kobe either. Kobe in 2011 vs the Mavs definitely wasn't even close to as bad as LeBron in the 2011 Finals though. Kobe definitely is still an honorable mention for the GOAT but just isn't quite the GOAT.
@@bwink23 I actually am planning to make a video about Michael Jordan's Wizards years someday. I am aware that it's been done as I'm a big fan of Jonny Arnett but I'll have my own spin on it. I never want to plagiarize anyone, especially someone I have a high amount of respect for. I do have his Wizards jersey so I'll wear that when I make the video. His Wizards years are definitely better than he gets credit for.
jordan literally took off seasons mid career . he jus called it retired
When it comes to the “making teammates better” points, I think it’s great when you can squeeze a few more points out of role players when you’re on the court. I think it’s more impressive when you push your team to play better and harder game-to-game, practice-to-practice to the point where you can retire and the team still plays at a high level. That 93-94 Bulls team lost MJ, gained Kukoc (who already a couple of doses of what MJ and Pip) and were a bad call away from the ECF. It wasn’t until the next season after Grant went to Orlando when the Bulls started really declining until Jordan came back to help improve their playoff positioning. Looks to me like MJ was the one who REALLY made his teammates better, short term and long term.
Yup absolutely true although in 94, the Bulls still overcame Pippen not playing well in that second round series outside of 2 games and they were also fortunate that Derek Harper got suspended. I will say your overall assessment is excellent though.
Don't forget LeFrauds plus minus recently with the Lakers... absolutely toxic
94 Cavs had 3 starters miss entire series vs Bulls.
94 Knicks up 2-0, Derek Harper ejected, Pippen quits, newly added Kukoc wins game, & Bulls blow 20 points lead in 3rd quarter.
Knicks Starks just had knee surgery, he’s wearing a brace vs bulls, Harper’s suspended, & ejected, as Bulls get back in series. So if Starks never has knee surgery, if Cavs never have injuries, if Harper never gets ejected and suspended from Knicks, does this series even go that far?
When Kareem broke Wilt's record, he led the Lakers to the Western Conference title. When LBJ passed KAJ's record, the Lakers was in 13th place and may not make it to the playoffs. That's the big difference.
The Lakers also won that game when Kareem broke Wilt's record. I get it that this record is prestigious and that's why I opened up with congratulations and that I do think it's amazing just when it comes to who's the GOAT, no this doesn't hold nearly as much weight as winning championships. That's what Bronsexuals fail to understand even when I said it loud and clear in this video.
LBJ only got there with the refs help over years and years
As a Laker fan I can’t believe I’m saying this but I think Lebron at this point is holding us back. No matter what your opinion is, whenever Lebron is gone the Lakers are gonna be horrible so I think we should start rebuilding now to hopefully have a quicker and better rebuild but instead we keep putting it off since Lebron is around.
I'm with you and when LeBron leaves, I will wish him well. Bubble or not, the 2020 championship gave me the best birthday of my life and I even cried both tears of joy and some from still grieving about Kobe and Gigi. Outside of that though, the LeBron era has been a disaster. The Heat weren't in shambles after LeBron left because Pat Riley is no pushover and never let LeBron walk over him. Yes they got worse but they didn't competely crumble the way the Cavs did twice or how the Lakers are about to. I fully realized during LeBron's Lakers tenure that he only really buys in when he gets his way which is very childish of him.
But that's the irony isn't it. The decisions of the Lakers front office to let Lebron choose his support cast and selling the entire franchise to do so is the reason why the Lakers will be rebuilding for years to come. When you have someone like LeBron and AD on your roster you expect not just to win but compete for championships, it's not even a doubt. But reality has not been kind reflecting the failures of Lebron's career in what should've been rather then what was. The mamba mentality of make no excuses for your failures is the pillar of greatness, something LeBron never had and even worse, never bothered to learn.
Yep. Longevity and stats do not equal GOAT. They equal great, but they do not equal GOAT.
Exactly right
The way kobe went on after shaq, proved to everyone he was a legend, and 1 of the greatest 2 play the game. Period.
Even with Shaq, by 2001 he was easily a top 5 player in the league. Even by 1999, Kobe was a legitimate star and did outplay Shaq in the first 2 games against the Spurs when they got swept out of the 2nd round.
well said...i've been saying the same for a long time...I do numbers/stats for a living and I have pages after pages of stats that prove MJ (along with Kareem and Wilt) come up more than anyone else in NBA history (well, as long as stats have been recorded)...MJ is the GOAT and it's not even close!
31:25 Reason why there are so many Kobe fans including myself. Not the most talented player, but he's always working, and he got himself to the point where he's successful both as a player, and as a businessman. Rest in peace bean.
@Cadillac Kadafi Skills from practice, not from talent. Kobe is not the most gifted leaper, not the most gifted shooter, not the most gifted physically, but he worked to get to where he was. Jordan was a great leaper and had huge mitt, Lebron is gifted physically, build like a tank.
@Cadillac Kadafi I don't think he means Kobe isn't talented because just hard work alone can't get you to the NBA. Kobe did outwork everyone to be who he is, which we can all agree on.
AmenI couldn't have said it better
MJ still holds the highest playoff average. For a dude who played less he still scored more than LeBron who went to the playoffs MORE. This is facts. MJ still has more accolades than LBJ and KD combined. Put that into perspective
MJ has more accolades with less help too. Ok I think I'd rather have Scottie Pippen as my running mate than Russell Westbrook but MJ certainly never had the help that KD ever had on the Warriors. MJ never even had a 3rd option as good as 6th man James Harden who was definitely good enough to be the leading scorer on his own team which he proved just one season later, even while I'm much more harsh on James Harden than I am on LeBron, I'd at least say that. Or sure I'd rather have Scottie Pippen than Mo Williams or anyone on those LeBron led Cavs teams from the first 7 years that's not named LeBron but how bad the Cavs supporting cast was in those 7 years does get overblown. Kyrie is definitely a way better scorer than Scottie Pippen ever was but Pippen is also a far better all-around player. However, MJ never had a 3rd best player as good as Chris Bosh or Kevin Love. 2020 Anthony Davis was also better than Scottie Pippen.
Wow!! Best debate I ever heard.
Thanks! What's crazy is even in 43 minutes, I feel like I could've said more but just already found the video to be long enough but I'm really glad you and many others enjoyed this video! I think it was absolutely worth it to put in as much time as I did into making this video!
@@showtimenick824You can chop this up and make shorts
MJ : I would never say I'm the greatest ever because Ive never played against the guys that came before me It would disrespectful to them.
Lebron : Hold my White Claw 🍺
😆😆
Thank you! You pretty much broke down every reason why I would still take Kobe over LeBron
Which is way more Debatable than that nonsense they try to keep pushing as a debate.
You know what's funny is in around 2006 LeBron actually called Kobe the best player in the game but over the years, LeBron did get very full of himself. At least he did thank other people when he broke the record and did ask the crowd to give Kareem a standing ovation but calling yourself the GOAT, yeah I'm glad I'm not the only one it rubs the wrong way.
this was the absolute best take I've ever heard on this subject matter. Bravo
Facts even before you I needed no convincing that he is not the goat.
The thing people miss about the all time scoring list is MJ played 4 to 5 years less than everyone else in the top five and maybe top ten. And if you take into account he had two seasons where he only played about 35 games combined its like 7 years less. He is still the superior scoring with the highest ppg in history and 10 scoring titles 7 in a row and 6 times while three-peating twice. It aint close more accolades in less time and in dominate fashion.
I would like to see bron on that same bulls team that got swept or pippen on that same team without Jordan on it and tell me they would do any better than what Jordan did
As said in the video, Pippen already showed he wasn't capable of leading a team to a championship in 94 when he folded in the playoffs and the Bulls went to 7 games in spite of him and only even went 7 games because Derek Harper got suspended. Pippen also couldn't replicate his 94 season in 95. LeBron against the 86 Celtics likely would've quit. Sure Jordan didn't have a good game 3 but games 1 and 2, he balled out and his team wasn't good enough.
What should tell you LeBron could have done it, remember LeBron has had more expectations and more hype put on him than any other player in sports history. The man went straight to the pros to the worst team in the league and he had the pressure of being the 1st pick. He made his team respectable in his 1st year was in the Championship by his 4th year. That shows he could do it on his own. MJ was Great, but he went under the radar and never had the pressure that LeBron has had. MJ didn't win before Pippin and didn't win after Pippin enough said
@@andrewmatzo8167 The part about LeBron entering the league with the weight of the world on his shoulders as an 18 year old and having the success that he's had is amazing. That is the part I will agree with. You lost me by saying MJ never won without Pippen and it's clear as day you didn't watch my video which you don't have to as I can already see that this video is about to blow up but why comment when you didn't watch. Pippen was a rookie coming off the bench when Jordan won his first playoff series and wasn't even a legitimate Robin until his 3rd season. This has been debunked 9999999999999999999 times yet you guys still don't get it. It's baffling. Also the Bulls were 27-55 the year before they drafted Jordan and won 38 games in a more condensed league the following year. They were 30-52 when MJ missed most of the season with a broken foot but won 5 of their last 8 to barely make the playoffs when MJ returned.
@@andrewmatzo8167 do really think he could have got passed Boston with that team Jordan had idc how much expectations he had he wasnt getting pass that Boston team if he had that same team Jordan had when he got swept
@@iamaretheone4083 Also when talking about doing all that you can despite not getting enough help, if dropping 49 and 63 in the first 2 games isn't that, I don't know what is. Yes MJ didn't have a good game 3 but the first 2, he absolutely did all that he can against a much better team.
Finally, another logical perspective, and person that gets it. I still wonder how can he pass Kareem, when he shouldn't even be a top 8 player. Too many other great players deserve to be mentioned before LeBron James. I'll leave the rest of this to you. Good job, and a new subscriber for telling me the truth.
Welcome to the team! Would you say he's a top 10 player though? If yes and I find it hard to exclude him from my top 10 myself but I definitely get not having him as top 8 as I asked the audience if you think we should rank Tim Duncan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq and Jerry West too. Sure Jerry West's Finals record is worse and that's why he's not the GOAT but between him and LeBron, we have to look at the bigger picture. Jerry West was easily better on defense for a longer period of time. He made all 5 of his All-Defensive Teams in his last 6 seasons as All-Defensive Teams didn't exist until his last 6 seasons. Jerry West averaged 40 points per game throughout a playoff run which he probably wouldn't do today with more games and not as fast paced but that's still insane no matter what era it is. Jerry West was also definitely more finesse and had a better jump shot. Jerry West also had a very Kobe and Jordan like pump fake in his arsenal. Lastly about the Finals record, Bill Russell's Celtics were better than all of LeBron's playoff and Finals opponents including the KD Warriors and I think the 1970 and 73 Knicks absolutely have an argument over the KD Warriors too. So yeah I think I made a pretty argument for Jerry West over LeBron here. What do you think?
Respect to you for spitting all them Kobe facts. Both the good and the bad. You are a real one.
I appreciate you bro!
You can still make an solid argument for Kareem over LeBron on the All-time list AND better longevity. Kids today in this paddy-cake NBA want someone so bad to hold onto. LeBron over Jordan is not even a discussion, Jordan had to retire twice and give away 4 to 5 productive years just for anyone else to even be talked about.
The argument is way beyond solid. If anything, Kareem's longevity is more impressive.
@@mpound97I agree, Kareem averaged 78 games played a year all the way to 41 years old...on top of 3 UCLA championships in college as the focal point of every defense in his college and his prime NBA years. Finals MVP at 38. Still has played more games than LeBron. And after this year, LeBron will have averaged only 55 games a year the last 5 years. Kareem can't even spell load management.
I actually did record a part about Kareem's high school and UCLA career but then couldn't figure out how to include it and have it go with the flow of the video is why I didn't end up including that segment. Also editing a video I spent a whole hour recording for my first take only to cut it down to 43 minutes sure was a lot of work too.
“Kids today” 😂 you old heads are the only ones holding onto things for dear life. Todays nba is much more talented than in the past. That’s just how it works. The 20th best player of today would be a top 5 player in the past.
@@F76CC You are an idiot and a loser.
Imagine MJ leaving CHI when he couldn't beat DET, superteaming with his own Conference All Stars then returning after three first overall picks .
I definitely can't imagine someone as competitive as him ever doing that. Even when he was old, he could've gone to the Lakers or Spurs for an easy ring but no he played for a team that won just 19 games the year before he played for them and made no major additions!
For me it’s not like lebron can’t be the goat but the excuses, times he’s stopped trying and lack of accountability just keeps him away from GOAT status
Bingo! And he's not as skilled as some of the past great ones!
The biggest difference between the two, and what really defines greatness imo, is that MJ made a team a superteam (Made his teammates a lot better even if they were average), while LeBron needs already established superstars to make a superteam. I’m a soccer fan, so I’m not too well-versed in Basketball, but this principle rings true for soccer too. The greatest soccer players make everyone around them better, they don’t need a team of world class players to win trophies.
Anyways. Great vid, loved the content and was very entertaining despite me having to google some things so I could understand 😂 but that’s because I’m a soccer guy.
Thanks bro! Everyone has their own definition of a super team. Mine is team with 2 superstars and an All-Star or 2 with player collusion involved. So with MJ, Pippen was also homegrown and MJ never asked for Dennis Rodman. Rodman came because the Spurs were desperate to get rid of him because he became such a distraction to the team. Rodman also only made 2 All-Star Games and those were with the Pistons in 1990 and 92. I don't consider the 2008 Celtics a superteam because that team was built organically. I'm not a soccer guy but I have been told what you said about soccer before.
@@showtimenick824 Oh I agree! I meant making a superteam in the way that even if the others on the court weren’t world-class individually, MJ made them be (even if they weren’t after MJ switched teams). Also, as you mentioned, he helped develop Pippen among others to be great. Ngl, I’m still not fully sure about Rodman and what he’s done (I hadn’t heard about him before 😂) but he sounds like a trash teammate. IMO, it’s kinda sad what’s happening to sports nowadays. I feel like many of them are becoming a lot worse. They’re turning into businesses, and it’s a huge problem in soccer as well as basketball. We don’t have the level of world-class players that we used to.
His all time turnover record takes away some of the praise for the scoring record. It's like being the all time TD pass leader and the all time interception leader (i.e. Brett Favre when he retired). Load management, Super teams, Flopping, Play-in tournament, Euro steps, Minimal physicality, No hand checking. SHOWTIME NICK IS SPOT ON. MJ's record in title defenses......A PERFECT 4-0.
2:57 Careful now. You going to get all the Lebron simps butthurt, LMAO 😂🤣.
BronCels
It didn't take long. Look at Zack's comment LOL.
@@showtimenick824 Bron Stan’s are more obsessed of their lord and savior than Justin Timberlake was with Brittany Spears. 😂🤣
@@Theterminato2013 OOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH I always used to say Steve Urkel and Laura Winslow but that one is 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 too!!!!!! 😂🤣😂🤣
Holy cow i spoke too soon.. your KILLING THIS..HEADS ARE EXPLODING
I mean you read the title of the video right? 😂
It's my first visit to your channel. Very impressed. Very good work. I appreciate that because I know this isn't easy. 🙏
Thank you! And yeah I first recorded this video either the day or the day after LeBron broke the record but because this video is long, it took me this long to finish editing! It makes my day to know so many of you appreciate the time and effort I put into this!
Nothing but facts! You got a new sub.
If you have eyes, you shouldn't need this in depth analysis and breakdown, but thank you for doing it bro, alot of blind fools out here apparently... doin the lawds work 😂
Love the video. Watched it atleast 5 times in the last 3 days. Also loved the video regarding the finals opponents MJ faced as well. There is a VERY comprehensive blog detailing every thing about MJ. Everything people try to bring up to bring him down. The 1-9, the expansion era, the zone defenses and his wizards years to include a few. A few other good noteworthy things include a full detailed breakdown of MJ vs Kobe, Mj vs Lebron as well as the fact that how MJ would have fared against LBJs finals opponents as well as his playoff opponents win % and overall playoff strength. MJ is the ONLY player to win MULTIPLE championships with a below 60 point supporting cast(not sure if its 60 or not. Its been a while since I read it) He also has 4 out of the top 15 spots in overall playoff strengths along with the lakers. But MJs playoff series is higher. People give credit to LBJ for leading both teams in every stat. Well. Hakeem did that for THE ENTIRE PLAYOFF SERIES. FROM START TO FINISH. MJ is THE ONLY other player to come even close to that. I think he was 8 rebounds away from leading his entire team in all stats for the entire playoff series in 1997
The blog name is called Nobodytouchesjordan. It also details how MJ did when he faced sub 90 defenses. And how the allegedly "more atheletic, bigger, jumps higher" dudes from the present era did against the "old washed up burger sellers and plumbers" of the 90s
5 times in the last 3 days wow! Well thank you for spending that much time watching this! Only someone without a brain could possibly use 1-9 without Pippen against Jordan. This has been debunked way too many times already. At the end of the day, who won is what matters. I promise you Jerry West was never happy with winning Finals MVP for the losing team. He just didn't show it in the manner we saw in Winning Time. I'll check out that blog for sure. Thanks for the recommendation!
This is crazy i literally agree with everything you said. And i like the breakdown of information you not just speaking an opinion.
One of the best fact by fact video dissertations on this topic on this entire platform to date. Well done. 👏
Thank you!
Dope channel ill be watching
Thank you! I'll be sure to watch your content too!
Great video! Not even Nick Wright or Shannon Sharpe could argue against any of these points lol. Lebron shouldn't be in the goat convo because he's been caught purchasing peds in 2013.
Thanks for the compliment. I didn't hear anything about him actually getting caught purchasing PEDs though but I'd rather not comment on that because I don't want to end up getting sued. PEDs or not though, he never was anything close to being the GOAT.
Great video
Thank you!
Excellent breakdown, by far the best "formal" roast ever on LeRetire.
I appreciate it! Well I didn't even try to really roast him, just tried to keep it as real as I can and not appeal to Gen Z's who don't know a lick of basketball but I'm really appreciative of the fact that you enjoyed my video!
@@showtimenick824 Sure thing, I will mention you in our upcoming videos. Thanks for replying!
@@hainavidotcom Subscribed!
@@showtimenick824 appreciate the love fam! where are you from by the way?
I was born in Japan, raised in New York, I've been back in Japan the last 6 years.
I'm playing this video every night on repeat all night.
Will sleep like a baby
More 💵 for me so thanks! 😂 I hope you enjoy my other videos that much too though.
Finally a truthful video with context no misleading narrative.
I appreciate the love bro! Gotta do what I gotta do! Some people are just helpless but hopefully this video can help some people come to their senses.
Jordan the better scorer, defender, free throws, steals, blocks, offensive rebounds, less turnovers. It's not a good debate. Lebron gets the edge in assists, but Jordan's 11.4 assists in the 91 finals is higher than any series Lebron ever had. Also for their position, Jordan is clearly a better rebounder. At 6'8 260 Lebron only averages one more rebound. Same with fg% 50.5 to 49.7. Lebron has always protected his fg%
Great job, honeslty u did ur research and ur showcased it 👍
Thank you!
Mate you know your soccer. What an amazing summary of stats and backing up your argument succinctly :)
What are you talking about? In what world does basketball even look remotely like soccer? Are you blind?
@@showtimenick824 bahhaha mate I'm not taking the p1ss at you, this is sort of a saying where I am which means you know your sh*t/stuff inside out. I grew up watching 90s and early 2000s basketball and am well aware players with current stats don't stack up to the rules from 70s to 90s and there was cut throat aggression, now they play soft till the play-offs.
@@afb8370 Well thank you but come on, you really told me I know soccer on a basketball video? You will never see me talk about soccer on TH-cam because no I don't know soccer at all. Thanks for the compliment though but please get the right sport next time.
@Showtime Nick Chief it's a saying like you know your thing, soccer in the sentence is just a metaphor. Overall I just wanted to mention your content and research is top notch. You'll get more subscribers like that Basketball Time Machine and Yougala channel.
@@afb8370 I never heard that metaphor before. To me that sounds like you're literally talking about soccer but ok thanks for the compliment! I only haven't uploaded much because I've had another job for the past year. I never heard of Yougala but I love Basketball Time Machine.
That Wilt injury would knock Kawhi out of the game for two years. All while getting his full paycheck of course. It’s his MO.
So true!
Thank you for the Larry Bird argument. Dude had one of the top 5 NBA peaks (in my opinion) among players.
I was actually also about to add how Larry Bird played an entire game left handed and scored 47 and also how he would tell his opponents what he's about to do and still destroy them. LeBron is more confident than Dear DeRozan, Paul George, or Ben Simmons but there's levels to this and LeBron never matched MJ, Kobe or Larry Bird's level of confidence. Larry Bird was also way better off the ball.
Great video! I’m very impressed with your NBA knowledge
Thank you and you're more than welcome to check out what else I've done on this channel! I make videos on baseball and football too but basketball's my favorite sport.
Bro you’re spitting straight facts I’ve never seen a more detailed explanation.
Thank you! At least most of you who clicked on this video get it! Sadly some people well obviously Bronsexuals don't get it and never will.
@@showtimenick824 they’re a very weird bunch. Always trying to gaslight people into thinking lebron is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I try to steer clear of them (including talking heads like Shannon sharpe and nick Wright).
@@AppleJacksCereal They are the last group of people I ever want to appeal to but of course they'll come here to argue just to argue.
Finally someone who doesnt think the Larry Bird is better argument is ridiculous. THANK YOU and I'm a brotha saying this so zero racial bias. You nailed every reason I give Bird the edge over LBJ. I get tired of the disrespect like its not a legit argument. Also agree Magic and Bird legitimately made people better. With that said Jordan is still #1 overall to me. :)
This whole vid is outstanding by the way. It addresses every single false narrative and thank you for your attention to detail.
Thanks for tuning in and enjoying this! I'm only 30. I'm not old enough to remember Magic and Bird or MJ's prime. I only remember MJ's Wizards' years which I may make a separate video on saying they were better than people think. I really have studied the history of the game and have watched enough tape to be able to be on the same page as you.
All solid takes Nick. Fellow Lakers' nation member here...
I'll add that I think alot of basketball and sports fans in general confuse the notions of Greatest and Best which misguides how they evaluate G.O.A.Ts
Greatest is relative, Best i.e. 'most skilled at something' is absolute
e.g. Babe Ruth is so far the greatest baseball player of all time by general consensus in the U.S. and around the world but he's far from having been the best ever at it. The absolute numbers clearly tell us that Barry Bonds has been the best 'most skilled' to have laced them up so far
Other e.g., Mohammed Ali is widely considered to be the greatest boxer of all time around the world. Sugar Ray Robinson has been the best boxer so far in pro boxing based on absolute numbers
In the case of MJ, he has been the greatest player and also the best at it so far based on his individual and team absolute achievements but also the discrepancies in how much and on how many instances he dominated his league compared to the greatest players he played with during his prime years and, the greatest peaks before and after him
LeBron was the greatest 2-way power forward of his era during his prime years but he's not the greatest player of all eras when you compare his domination to that of other greatest peaks across different eras (Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabar, Elgin Baylor, etc.)
All great points. Just be careful because the fan police Bronsexuals are out to get us. 😂
@@showtimenick824 Bhahaha smh
Jordan is a superior level . No way to compare Jordan with someone else, the closest player died ,was kobe
Everyone keeps saying Jordan Jordan Jordan, like you guys know I mentioned other players too that I think are bettet than LeBron or at the very least have an argument.
LeBron has 2,700 3 pointers Kareem has shot 1 .and I do not believe that he would not have as many points playing 70s80sor 90s .
Definitely not with those rules and in the early 70s, you weren't allowed to go from high school straight to the NBA, but because LeBron got to do that, he had a head start.
This was one of the best commentaries on why Lebron is not the Goat I've ever heard. 👏🏾 👏🏾 👏🏾
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed it!
MJs 30+ppg is more impressive because the average scores in his era were 100-95 while LeBronze 27ppg comes in an era when it’s common for final scores to top 150 points in a game. So MJ has a much higher point share per game than LeBronze and had a much larger hand in their wins.
Right and it has a lot to do with the rules favoring the offense now more than ever.
Lebron has been playing 6 years longer than Jordan and is still chasing his accomplishments, even in a way easier league. It's really not a conversation anymore.
The media only made it a conversation to brainwash a bunch of kids who never even watched Michael Jordan highlights let alone full games.
33:33 This is why I am not a fan of a lot of the players today. I get it, players are worth too much to risk their health nowadays, but I don't like the mentality of "Sprained ankle? Well we'll try again next season", and when next season comes, "A cramp? This season is a washed, we'll be better next season". Players today are reserving themselves for the next uncertained season instead of playing for this season.
Well said bro and even modern players themselves like Anthony Edwards has spoken out about it and even Paul George too because the Clippers' medical staff is beyond overly cautious! It's more understandable with Kawhi because he does have a chronic injury but Paul George should not load manage. People need to realize you're always at risk of injury any time you play any sport at any level! I haven't played in a basketball game in over a week, I played today, I tweaked my ankle and shoulder and badly jammed my thumb. I thought my thumb was fine and kept playing but it very suddenly started feeling stiff. I swear my name is not Anthony Davis! 😂
@@showtimenick824 PG13 also said resting too much makes you more injury prone in his opinion, because your body is not built up properly to sustain the hard long grind of the regular season. Load management weakens the body.
Pete rose got the most hits and 3 rings in 24 years. That doesn’t mean he’s the goat of baseball.
He's not even the best singles hitter, that's Ichiro.
Him not being in the Hall of Fame is absolutely still a travesty though. But yeah his .303 career batting average is great but Tony Gwynn hit .338 for his whole career. Winning definitely impacts basketball legacies more than baseball because there's less players on a basketball team and you're involved in every play in basketball unlike in baseball where you only bat 3-5 times a game and the ball is not always hit or thrown to you or for pitchers, run support is not something a pitcher is in control of. Winning also matters more for a basketball player than a football player's legacy because you have to play both sides of the ball in basketball and you don't in football. Winning does matter in baseball and football though just not as much as it does for basketball when talking about an individual player's greatness. Pete Rose does have a career .321 postseason batting average and .388 career postseason on base percentage so that should definitely elevate his legacy though.
@@showtimenick824 Rose had almost 1,200 more hits than Gwynn.
@@showtimenick824 Rose and Shoeless Joe are tied together for me. They committed the same crime under the rules and are both Hof worthy. I cant justify one in without the other, because of that
@@greenhillscustomlawncarell1139 True in 4 more seasons. Pete Rose's hit record is probably unbreakable. I love baseball too and there's plenty of baseball content on here too if you want to check that out. Basketball is my favorite sport though but what's interesting is my most viewed videos are baseball videos.
You killed this sh!t 💯💪🏽 love the breakdown
Also, when Pippen hid that he delayed his surgery and surprised his team by not being available for 38 games: 25-13, and most of the 13 was in the first 20 games.
I don't think that really gets talked about. 1-9 in the playoffs without Pippen is what does get talked about and that's why I had to attack how stupid it is to use that against Jordan without any context. You're right that it does show Jordan was easily more significant to the Bulls' success than Scottie Pippen could ever dream of.
I heard no lies and even though I’m a Knick fan I subscribed. Keep up the great quality.
The Knicks are my second team! If you're a Yankees and Giants fan too, you'll definitely love what I have here! I appreciate you subscribing though! I want to make a video about Julius Randle's bounceback season because I was very critical of him in a video I made last year but just as I was getting ready to do that, the Knicks have lost their last 3. I still want to make the video though.
@@showtimenick824 I can’t wait to see it 👍🏾
@@spitnificent If you want to check out my video in the end screen about MJ's competition, I'll admit I should've talked more about 92, also should've talked more about the Jazz because their bench was way better than what a stat sheet would indicate, and I gotta go back and watch the 96 Finals because I got a comment about that, I'm sure you'll enjoy seeing who I once met. Not Patrick Ewing even though that would be sick but 2 of his teammates from the 90s.
RIP Willis Reed. 😢 Anyways the Knicks video is coming today although I recorded it before the loss to the Timberwolves. Hopefully that's ok with you and everyone else.
Totally agree with bulls finals opponents smoking 2007 and 14 spurs. They were all great teams
I break them down in the video in the end screen if you want to check that out although I should've gone more in depth about the Jazz as their bench was way better than it looked on a stat sheet and I need to really watch the 96 Finals since I got a comment about the notion of Gary Payton clamping Jordan in the last 3 games, something I actually remember hearing about long before the GOAT debate became the hot topic that it is today.
I'm was huge sonics fan and gp was my guy but he didn't clamp mj down.lol. He tried and did a better job than most would have but mj was still mj. Imo
Great Take
Thank you!
Very compelling and original points. Great job and obv a subscribe
Thank you and welcome aboard!
Excellent excellent beautiful analysis 🙏🏾🔥🔥
Awesome Video 🫡
Thank you!
Dam your good, and on point, about your takes. Yes no other players have ever been treated like this for failing, in the finals. Never mind that he lost to the older Dallas Mavericks. Too many times he has way way too much help for an so called elite basketball player. Unreliable when your team needs a leader, lackluster skills in the clutch, plays no defense, has been given the benefit of the doubt for too long. How are you able to be ranked higher than your contemporaries, like Stephen Curry, whom has 4 rings just like you, has had less help, is smaller than you, yet able to impact a game as a little guy.
I will say LeBron has had his moments of being clutch too like game 6 vs the Celtics in 2012 when facing elimination but this was also when the Celtics were aging. He does have more playoff game winners than MJ but MJ had more off the dribble game winners which anyone who knows basketball knows are harder to make. LeBron has been a great defender before but his second stint in Cleveland no he wasn't. He started playing any defense at all again in 2020 and then 2021 until he hurt his ankle but since then his effort on defense has been abysmal. If Jerry West and Elgin Baylor didn't get praised like this for always losing in the Finals, why should LeBron right?
You my friend are FRYING these LeBron addicts💯
It's so easy because they know absolutely nothing about basketball. 😂 It's not just Bronsexuals though. All Stans suck. James Harden Stans are almost as bad as Bronsexuals if not as bad.
This is gold, you are spitting facts. Just earned yourself a sub
Thank you! Welcome aboard!
This was very enlightening. Not that I ever thought passed LeBron at 22 years old when he looked like he could become the goat but I did have him ranked right behind MJ and now I am not sure I would even consider him number two after this video.
I'm glad I was able to give you some insight that you didn't have before! I'll admit I actually had LeBron at number 2 when I started this channel but then I really looked further back on LeBron's career and realized how many of his playoff failures were absolutely his fault. The 2011 Finals is the only one that really gets remembered but you have to dig deeper than the stats to see it. For Bill Russell and his 11 rings, I could've also mentioned that he's 10-0 in game 7s for his career!
@@showtimenick824 The fact you could do this without your generation's "presentism" is very impressive. I have been trying to be open to the idea that my "Nostalgia" was preventing me from not seeing what my son who is your age is saying about LeBron. Instead after hours of videos like yours, I am more convinced then every MJ is still the GOAT! I did also learn more about guys like Russel and West who do not get enough credit today and were playing while I was in my teens and not really paying attention. So regardless if my son and I can agree or not this was fun and edifying. Keep up the good work Nick.
@@AlanBennett866 Maybe your son be convinced with this too. I hope you get a chance to check out my other videos too. Once the Nuggets win the championship, I have 2 videos I plan to make on them.
@@showtimenick824 I watched a few more of your videos today and liked and subscribed.
@@AlanBennett866 I really appreciate it! Welcome to the team!
If you take all the three-pointers LeBrons made and make them two 2 point shots, would he have had passed Kareem record I don't think so.
That's probably true.
@18:11-18:20 is facts. I told someone giving Jordan the Russell Westbrook treatment if he played in today's game would be a huge defensive mistake. If I were the coach for the opposing team, I'm cussing that entire team out for that 😂.
Excellent breakdown. I would love for you to do a video on the top ten greatest NBA players of all time. I rank Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabber, Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant above LeBron James.
That's a nice idea and I'm glad you're enjoying my content. I know some people will love it and some people will hate it if I ever do that video bht you know what it's all my opinion. I completely agree with you on those guys being better and I'd add Bill Russell that list, probably Larry Bird and Wilt Chamberlain as well over LeBron.
I watch the new games.
There are NO LEBRON RULES, They have wide open courts, no defense at all, easy layups and dunks.. Jordan was double teamed, beat, cloth lined and he still scored and won most of this games.
Jordan was hand checked too and had to play with no defensive 3 seconds or freedom of movement. I'm sure if he was mugged like MJ was, he would've retired a few years ago.
"I'll push myself to exhaustion" Legendary. Kobe never gave up. My all time favorite. MJ the goat. Kobe Second
The longevity is incredible. But we shouldn't pretend he is the most clutch, the most loyal, the most hard-working, mentally tough, etc... and his skills are great but not fantastic. MJ is the goat. His peak was thr greatest of all NBA players ever
Everything u said is absolutely right. Why isn’t Karl Malone higher on the goat list. Even if he’s got more points than MJ.
It’s about the rings, stats, and how u played the game.
Lebron got 1 82 game season.
That’s not goat status
MJ was always the Goat .. Media is manipulated every little fanboy / girl and content … but in the END anyone who really knows the game knows MJ is the GOAT
I think I can still make an argument for Bill Russell or Kareem. Definitely not LeBron though. The media wants to make it between Jordan and LeBron because they're popular and that's how they get ratings, but in reality the gap between them is enormous and LeBron is not even second to Jordan, Russell or Kareem.
I agree. people gives too much credit to Lebron with regard to passing and seemingly making his teammates better. You can make your teammates better by passing them the ball, yes, but you can also make your teammates better by pushing them in practice, in game, and be that leader who will shoulder the pressure in tight games and own up to losses. MJ made Pippen better, there is not a player that Lebron developed, that's a lack of leadership quality as he gives up on his young teammates countless times.
People need to realize that moving without the ball and keeping the ball moving is really how you make everyone better because you make the offense stagnant when you dominate the ball like LeBron does. MJ and Kobe were just as great if not better passers than MJ but played in the triangle offense in which nobody averages a lot of assists. The system plays a big role in how many assists someone gets too not just how good they actually are at passing the ball. Steve Nash never averaged 9 assists per game in Dallas but averaged almost 11 per game for his entire second stint with the Suns and led the league 5 times. It's not like Nash just suddenly went from being good at passing to elite. The system had a lot to do with it. Or James Harden leading the league in assists the first year under D'Antoni only to go down to 8.8 when Chris Paul arrived. Stats are flawed, especially today. Assists can give you an idea of how good of a passer someone is but the eye test is way more reliable. You're absolutely right about MJ and Pippen so when Bronsexuals bash MJ but overrate Pippen, they're too stupid to realize they're only propping up Jordan by propping up Pippen.
@@showtimenick824 All everyone ever needs to do is go watch Pao Gasol's HOF speech tonight on how much Kobe helped him in learning how to win. Kobe might shoot the ball alot, he might not have averaged 10 assists, but the impact he had on Gasol goes beyond stats. It is every single day, every single practice, the winning attitude, the competitiveness. MJ had that impact on Pippen, on Horace Grant, on every teammates he played with. Like you said, assists just means you handle the ball alot, it is also system. MJ did average 32/8/8 and also averaged 31 and 11 in the Finals against the Lakers so he can get assists when he wants to, it comes when there is a need, such as when he was playing PG for the Bulls for a stretch in the late 80s with I forgot how many triple doubles in a row. Guys like Westbrook and Harden who averaged a whole lot of assist while turning the ball over 5 times, I am not sure you can say that they made their teammates better cuz of the assists. To me, making teammates better just goes way beyond simple stats.
I just saw this but you're absolutely right. Now that you bring up Kobe shooting the ball a lot, we can also look at how LeBron averages more shot attempts per game for his career than Kobe yet Kobe's the ballhog? LMFAO. I actually would say Russell Westbrook made Daniel Gafford better when they played together in DC. Paul George had his best statistical season while playing alongside Westbrook. He still doesn't have an amazing track record of making his teammates better but he has at least made anybody at all better.
Don’t forget that Kareem missed four years of his prime in college and played without a three point line
3 years actually but still true. Did I not mention that? Maybe I was going to but then decided this video is already long enough and that's one way to know this video is old and I don't care about it anymore. Of course I stand by every word I said but this video is too old for me to really still care if it gets clicked on anymore. I already accomplished what I wanted to with it. I'm glad I got your attention and kept you engaged though so hopefully you'll end up watching my more recent videos too. That would be greatly appreciated if you'd like to do that.
@@showtimenick824 he was forced to play on a separate freshman team due to NCAA rules at the time. The freshman squad led by Kareem went undefeated and actually beat the Varsity in a scrimmage who were national champions that year. Overall spent four years in college even though he was and arguably still is the most hyped high school prospect of all time. He easily would’ve stepped in and average 20+. His real scoring record should be in the 45,000-48,000. It isn’t that LeBron isn’t great, it’s just that there is such stiff competition in that final GOAT tier.
@@zenmaster16 I'm at least aware that Kareem was easily more than good enough in high school to go straight to the NBA had the rules at the time allowed it.
@@showtimenick824 keep up the good content! It’s important to be a voice of reason against all of the sensationalist NBA media.
@@zenmaster16 I appreciate it! I make baseball and football content too, but basketball is my favorite sport.
Awesome 👏🏽
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I've been saying that Bron isn't the goat. Yes, I'm a heat fan I gave him credit for winning those two titles for us. I just didn't like how he said not 4, not 5, not 6, I never seen someone quit as much as him
If you were a fan of any other team, you probably would've rooted against LeBron for the way he went about "The Decision" right?
@showtimenick824 of course. I wasn't a fan of the heat because of lebron I was a fan before he came to us.
@@RightHandKam And I have a ton of respect for that. Being a Lakers fan, those who root for whatever team LeBron plays for, ok I won't say they're bad people just because of that but they have poisoned the Lakers fanbase being the delusional and toxic basketball fans that they are. I don't consider them one of us and I'm sure you felt that way too when he played for the Heat.
@showtimenick824 feeling is mutual. Honestly, I just don't like how his fans and the media are still hyping him up, I don't have him as the goat. I have him 7 or 8 on my top 10 of all-time. Respectfully I have curry knocking on the door at 11
I can name 5 players that's better than Bron. T-Mac, Allen Iverson, Kobe, Michael Jordan, Shaq.
Also Lebron is the GREATEST coach killer EVER…how many coaches has this man had??? Also HOW MANY players have been trade to appease him…about 100 players…He shouldn’t have been rookie of the year, either that should have been Melo…averaged more points and rebounds, higher shooting % and made the playoffs IN THE WEST…Not only is lebron NOT the greatest, I don’t have him in my top 5…to me he’s around 7 or 8 arguably. The man is 4-6 with superteams in a soft era…
Agreed about the coach killer! Look at Mike Brown in Sacramento right now and LeBron made him look terrible even while Mike Brown was a top tier defensive coach in Cleveland. He only didn't get Spoelstra fired because Pat Riley is not a pushover and wasn't willing to let LeBron walk all over him. You have seen the clip of LeBron bumping into Spo on his way to the bench early in his stint with the Heat right? That told me LeBron already thought he's bigger than Dwyane Wade's team that he just joined even though Dwyane Wade already has carried them to a championship with a Finals performance for the ages. Or how LeBron got David Blatt fired a year after the team made it to the Finals. He made Ty Lue look bad too but Ty Lue has done a poor job this year. I won't go by recency bias though as we have to acknowledge Ty Lue did do a great job in his first year with the Clippers but perhaps he's only good when he doesn't have pressure. At least without pressure, Ty Lue is capable of being more than a puppet. Last but not least, while yes Frank Vogel has his faults as a coach and proved to not be the most versatile, he was also set up to fail by the horrible roster construction last year. If given the right personnel, Frank Vogel is a great coach and he proved that in Indiana and during the 2020 championship run. Frank Vogel was clicking on all cylinders with his gameplans and adjustments during that championship run.
Absolutely! Also he got his first coach Paul Silas (RIP) fired as well as Luke Walton…Lebron is NOT as popular or loved as he thinks he is. Curry is more popular and kids are imitating his style of play, not LeBron’s. Him getting booed at the superbowl and the fact that at the top 75 ceremony he wasn’t anywhere near the center of attention tells a lot. Thanks for this video, Nick. This was a very complete assessment on this topic!
Also, you’ve earned a sub from me…very impressive content here!
@@NYNJ1974 Thank you so much! Your support means a lot! Welcome to the team!
Yeah, i have him 6th, with 3 players just below i can seriously put over him with a good argument.
Dr. J has the greatest SF case also. ABA stats alone, he led a non all star team to 2 championships and won and won one of the 2 championships against 3 hof players and won 3 MVPs in a row.
I think you make a great point here and the ABA was absolutely no joke. I'm still leaning towards Larry Bird and LeBron being the top 2 SFs of all-time and the next 4 in any order are Dr. J, Rick Barry, Elgin Baylor and John Havlicek. Dr. J only ever won a championship after Moses Malone joined his team and Moses Malone was the best player on that team but hey if Dr. J was an NBA player from the beginning, things may have been different. We'll never know though.
@Showtime Nick He was originally drafted by the Bucks in 71. Kareem and Oscar were playing at the time. Imagine how many rings they get. To me it's between Dr. J and Bird. Both had harder competition
Those Bucks teams also had Bob Dandridge and Jon McGlocklin who were both very good forgotten about players so yeah imagine if they had Dr. J too! Bob Dandridge is even a Hall of Famer!
Kareem rookie year 28 points, 14 rebounds. Second year first ring first finals MVP
Or Magic Johnson, Finals MVP as a rookie and having probably the greatest individual Finals performance of all-time in an NBA Finals game when Kareem was hurt.
Finally someone had to say it! lebron is a great player but his fans and media exaggerate his career and always turn a blind eye to his short comings
And I'm most certainly not scared of that cult. They are the worst fans in all of sports. Even worse than Dallas Cowboys fans. No offense to my friends who are some of the few good Cowboys fans out there.
It takes more than just points to be a GOAT!!!!!! Jordan will always be the GOAT 2 threepeats nothing g is topping that as of rt now in the NBA....
At least Bron got one thing right .. not 4, not 5, not 6, not 7 Nba Championships
🤣🤣 I would be really happy if he was right about that for the Lakers though and if by some miracle that does happen, then I might actually give him more consideration for the GOAT but realistically thinking, that's likely not happening.
Kobe, Shaq, Bird, Hakeem, all over Lechok the joke 😂😂😂
There soooo many players better than him. MJ, Bird, Magic, West, Kareem, etc. I could go on. These players, and others, made their teams better and weren't a cancer.
Even Jerry West wow! Since Jerry West's Finals record is even worse than LeBron's but Jerry West also lost to better teams in the Bill Russell Celtics than LeBron ever faced in the Finals including the KD Warriors. You can even argue that the 1970 and 73 Knicks were better than those Warriors.
Lebron makes his teams worse? He’s a cancer? Larry Bird???? Jordan fans are out of touch go read a book loser
@@jalemcatlin9461 He does make his teams better but not his teammates. He just gives them a superstar presence of his own.