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I am convinced the mentality has just gotten worse in esports. How can nobody appreciate it anymore, when a 'worse' team wins? How is it "Team X is doomed, they are so bad, boosted, my region???" instead of "how has this other team won? Are they insane or what?" I remember when Albus Nox Luna got out of groups and everybody was going crazy how they managed to do it. It was all about the winning team and I think that was beautiful
Yep. G2 wins against asian teams "ThE otHEr teAmS aRe CHokInG" - I sometimes wunder that such people don't choke on their mental problems. EU "fans" always seem to find lots of different stuff to cry about, it's actually insane - how about... Supporting the teams instead?
Oh no, even back then it was about how ROX Tigers was able to lose as the number 1 Seed of Korea and the rest of the teams being so bad to not achieve anything (G2 for example). The Upset by Albus Nox Luna was great (tough russian teams had a very good record in the past at international tournaments) and it brought up the idea to give more regions the exposure of worlds (therefore the Play-In Stage a year later).
@@itsjustgod9034 Because viewers are not as clueless as back then in 2013. We can already see whenever LCK LPL teams choke on drafts or when one member is completely running it down. The game is already solved from the viewer's perspective.
@@SKT_Light next time just cut the whole ending lol, set some technical difficulties or something, that was a slippery slope in the end, as right after the guest just said so nice things about them, they kindda diminished their own value by a lot with the ballsack thing.. all that was best in the dark.. caedrel just wanted to dissapear
The relegation/promotion system is hype for the same reason european football leagues are compared to the MLS. Of course you run into the problem of giant teams with loads of money siphoning all the upcoming talent, but you also have great underdog stories like 2015-16 Leicester, 2020-21 Lille, or last season the great runs of Girona and Bologna, making it into the Champions League for the first time in their history. That's like the amazing stories like Unicorns of Love or Griffin had. We have none of those in franchising. And we have bottomfeeders doing absolutely nothing to improve or make good teams. When teams like Astralis went multiple splits bottom 2, investing nothing into their team, hoping someone would pay for their spot so they can come out with some profit. Underperforming teams that lack the motivation, the skill, the talent to compete should not play in the premier competition. And this would also increase the stakes for top teams. They would have to improve, make good rosters, better staff and so on, otherwise they risk getting overtaken by upcoming teams and even risk getting relegated. Bigger stakes always makes better competition. And yes, it sucks for the players who get relegated, like it does for football players in Europe, but if you are a good enough talent, there will be an org most likely that will pick you up. It's obviously harder when you have only 5 slots on a team, not 11 starters and a 25 man team, but hey, something for something. If you are not good enough to make it with high stakes, you shouldn't be on a top level team. If you just want to linger around and get payed, you shouldn't be a professional competitor.
About the streamer content thing I think it’s also that a lot of your viewers watch you for your personality which is what the content is when your reacting, but a lot of us still love the analytical stuff because it’s how we became fans of you guys in the first place
I kinda feel bad for Caedrel somehow. I can see the anxiety in him. I can see the thoughts racing. If you see this Caedrel you are insanely talented and I respect the effort you put into this.
@@silselver6100yeah man, like is really sad that while caedrel didn't have the best pro career ever he is mostly remember by that infamous cancellation
Thank you for this and every previous episode! It's a great way to keep up with the behind the scenes, learn in depth and higher level league related knowledge and also relax and have a laugh or two!
People that say league is dying dont realize that this is only happening in the west China and Korea are growing ,but truth be told ,in the end there is a player cap ,league is probably still the most played game in the world for like 10 years it seems ,that is very rare ,so a slight down in number is inevitable
it is actually apparently starting to slightly die off in China, I believe there was some viewership issues over the LPL season, so wouldn't say it is ONLY the west.
@@RMYLIA china's market is so big they can absorb a little shrinkage. if it's dying in the west, the west shouldn't host tournaments. it's so incredibly lame to hold worlds in a tiny studio.
@@RMYLIA I saw news about this year being record breaking in terms of veiwers in LPL, so I'm not so sure, but Chineese streaming numbers are hard to get.
@@jal-kx6tmwhy is everyone freaking out for the studio thing, worlds last year was in the lck studio for a good portion of the tournament as well. The hate bias is crazy
I agree G2 might be top 8 in strength, but the "team kill, so west have a high chance in top eight, so must have a western team in top 8 ranking" narrative is so wrong. Even if eastern teams are so much better and auto wins vs western team we still possibly have a western team in top 8 exactly due to team kill, and that says anything to the strength of western team.
I don't always have the time to watch the content, but i've been more or less actively watching back since the beginning of costreaming. I love and appreciate that in this major recess of esport, we still have our goated streamers watching and breaking down pro league for our entertainment. Thank you guys for everything and lets hope for a hype worlds
Guys, this was the single best piece of content to come out of the entire scene in years maybe? It was clearly very cathartic for you to vent together, and it was great to listen to. I think this works so well because you're both (sorry, Yamato, you're getting there xox) so huge on your own platforms, so when you colaborate occasionally and shoot the shit it feels exciting. You three and the the rest of the LFN crew are my favorite pundits in the space, and I'm really glad you came together to make a platform like LFN which does legitimately broach topics in an open way which you don't see on other outlets
I think maybe Riot have stopped viewing eSports as good value marketing and instead are viewing the universe expansion through Arcane as just exponentially more valuable. I don't think it's wise, because while Arcane is a great hook, it's not going to keep a player in the game like the attachments following the careers of esports players is. However, it's clear that they don't understand loss leading or some internal statistic has been magic'd up to say it's not worthwhile, and in the decade of capitalising on IP, that's the goal.
@@nigamnation people follow players, just not to a crazy degree. Faker is the most obvious one, but basically all worlds winners and some particular talents like Kiin, Peanut, Gala, and the Griffin players all also have sway as names that people get nostalgic for and will tune in to see succeed.
Fallout made bestheda alot of while arcane fans were told by league players to not even try the game lmao. You made riot lose money so they cut the budget
Out of the 20 friends of mine that play league maybe 1 of them know anyone other than faker. The average league player has zero idea about pro play. Straight up. @@Derploop
you three have made up my personality this entire year and thank you so much for talking about narratives. i get so annoyed by people who obviously dont watch much league esports say some random shit but im sure none of us can prove them wrong except them winning worlds or something. its something that is unavoidable but im glad that its definitely not crazy to at least have some basis in arguments.
I believe Caedrel played a crucial role in turning around the narrative surrounding my favorite player, Razork. I will always respect him for his fairness and for refusing to contribute to the negativity.
I think they are correct. Without relegation and the chance for lower league players to get to the big stages just through gameplay alone it just lacks the stakes for most people to really get into it.
A western team making top 8 is not the same as ranking a western team at top 8. Caedrel even mentions that region kill is what gets them into top 8, so the teams killing the eastern region team is the better team, only losing out to another eastern team. On top of that, it doesn't make sense to rank G2 as top 8 based on Caps' clutch performance, when that isn't taken into account for player rankings. Faker is absent from the list based on RECENT performance, but Caps is not? Faker has a lot more clutch performance than Caps.
Did you not watch all of LEC summer? Caps and Hans carried G2 the whole split. He also mentioned how Dylan Falco and G2 always have new reads on the meta that catch teams off guard which is another reason you can't count them out. Caps had one of his best individual years in 2024 but I really don't think you can say that for Faker, despite the clutch plays here and there. G2 is definitely not a shocker to the Top 8 ranking but definitely shouldn't go higher given how poor they've been playing recently.
I feel like Riot are not seeing esports as a celebration of the game anymore except for the finals where they pull out all the stops. All the steps leading up to those finals do not matter as much to them as only the esports fans go there. Wouldn't be surprised to see quarters being chopped down to a smaller venue next year.
regarding the stuff about what riot gets from co-streamers: do they not get to use the viewership numbers in their reports to sponsors? pretty sure costreams are a huge boost overall to their final numbers
I think the argument for dropping broadcast for costream is wrong. I am convinced that if there was no casters from the broadcast on the costream A LOT of people would watch the main broadcast instead of a costream
Oh no, the Hulu Theatre wasn't as big or loud as I remember ROX vs SKT, the seats surrounded the stage (it was semis vs quarters but still) vs one single stage, I was pretty close to the front in both but Hulu was alright. Still would love for Worlds to return to NYC.
I really don’t get why we have worlds at Europe if they care the least about the product. Just go with China and Korea If only they make something cool out of it xD
Tbh it sounds more like a management issue than a budget issue with Rito (priorities). You improve everything else except viewership, more viewers means more players, more players means big bucks, you get the fundamentals right, you employ more people to cast, stream, analyze then you keep improving the game. And LEC and LCS prefer to pay imports now from KR than build an academy and invest in home grown talent... Have their own stars break out in the scene and shine with their merits. Make them believe, the fans and community can only feel that for players they can relate to. Expect your league to die out. Domestic support is important before you can be internationally competitive.
@@offthegrid777 Yeah thats true, but they already fumbled the ball so hard. LEC can maybe get back on track but they now killed the LCS and basically all of America as a whole. I am so sad about Brazil, because their league was one who did it right. They cared for their own region and the stores they write. Brazilian Fans are still mega mad that their region gets sacrifcied to "rescue" the LCS. I can understand them fully. Turkey was also cut last year, because they were integrated in the EMEA region, which meant that they downgraded from a small region to a non existent one who can now only play inside the EMEA via the EMEA Masters. If Riot continues to just destroy smaller regions, who can build themselves up, they are going to end LoL Esports for all the future players.
For worlds, the stream AdSense itself is negligible. Its the baked in sponsorships that are lucrative. And they still get "eyes on" for affiliated co-streams. It's just up to them to make sure that the total viewership is counted accurately when shopping out to advertisers.
I hear you Ceadrel 51:56 and I agree with you. A team winning as the underdog is more impressive, and should be celebrated. The issue tho is that when some people like Dom and Monte talk about T1's run last year they don't really give them credit for it. They still to this day imply that JDG was somehow the better team, and T1 won by luck or because JDG just decided to radomly choke that day. So while I agree with you that fans should expect analysts to rate the teams on their current level, said analysts can't bring themselves to give credit where credit is due.
The point that they are saying is that JDG was the better team throughout the year, but obviously the ramp up and glow up of T1 post that GENG series in worlds was something special
On the topic of "putting money in the right places", it's something that can be seen in other markets as well, for example the general gaming market and AAA-game developers. There's been a lot of complaints from both sides - the AAAs complaining that they're not getting the results for the amount of money they're putting in, and there's been a steadily building distrust for the AAAs among the gaming community because the games have either been unfinished(/broken) on release, games that are largely just reskins of the previous game with some extra fluff, and/or games being uninspiring and uninteresting. There's also certain games/companies that put out way too many different DLCs compared to the amount of content and things like that, but that's a bit of a different topic. While there are exceptions where AAAs put out great games, the general opinion of most people that aren't just casual gamers seem to be that there's no point in paying attention to the AAA market; you're better off looking one step down, toward the slightly smaller (AA) studios, as you're far less likely to see the issue that plague the larger companies. What's missing is - at it's core - passion. The devteams that were originally fueled by passion in the AAA companies have long since been milked dry, laid off, torn apart, etc. If they ever see a new success, they'll rip it apart and try to find every way they can milk it or find the reason for the success, failing to notice that they're the ones taking away the most important piece. As an end result, the AAAs just throw money at the problem, putting excessive amounts into poorly optimized ideas, teams and projects that usually just end up making stuff that *look* or seem impressive, but often end up hollow and dull, because while things look good or smooth, there's a lack of depth. There's the saying that you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd; that's essentially what they're doing with any game project that lacks direction and passion - they're throwing a lot of money into making it pretty and impressive, but that's not what people play games for. Sure, a lot of people appreciate and want games that look amazing, but if the game under all that polish is shit, people aren't gonna stick around. That's where you often find that the successful AAs, As and indie game developers (mind you, not all of them, just the ones that stand out) differ from the AAA; most of them aren't driven and controlled solely by money - there's still a vision, a dream, goal, desire and/or passion in the dev teams. Regardless of whether it's a "small" game like Among Us or a larger game like Baldur's Gate 3, in almost every greatly successful game there's one thing they tend to have in common: The game was a passion project. The developers *cared* about the game. It wasn't ONLY to rake in cash, they were passionate about the game they were developing. Unfortunately, there's almost always this sort of disconnect between the large companies and the actual customers or even the product ideas they're producing. However, if any of the AAA companies all the way up to the top were to actually understand this and adapt to it, they would probably end up completely dominating the market, as suddenly you could start seeing passion projects that are backed by AAA budgets. That said, that requires a lot of correct pieces; without them, while unsatisfying and frustrating to the customers, it's much more "correct" for the AAAs to keep doing what they're doing - while it won't become the next big thing, it's generally a safer option than risking into the unknown. You'd need a lot of research and multiple people along the chain knowing what they're doing for that to work.
The first thing about the LEC studio, the audience was definitely loud in tbe first couple matches, could see it being fine, but definitely think the Esport is in a trough rn, I hope there is a resurgence and they can learn from their mistakes.
I think you guys should introduce the guests before diving right in. I know a lot of people know caedral but for other guests you guys should say who they are, their team, their accomplishments, their backgrounds and how get got there etc. I think it would be great for lesser known people.
@@iasonmax3473 I meant introduce the guests before the beginning of the video like right at the start with who they are, their accomplishments and brief history of teams etc. Not just saying the guest name and then going right into the topics of the podcast.
@@vexacion9735 It's just a suggestion because I think it'll make the show better imo. A good example would be the intros on Shannon Sharpe's podcast he introduces guests well.
9:25 unban accounts. My main account with like 18 Mastery 7 champions got permanent banned for calling my teammate a f****** feeder and trolling in multiple games but that is like not even bad compared to what you see. Maybe then and only then people will want to come back to the game because starting from scratch is pointless
I want to say about the first half of the podcast and naratives. I believe a lot what people say they dont truly mean its just that its the first thing that pops in their heads and/or they think its funny. At least some of the comments are not made with strong beliefs its more about getting engagement or trolling or trying to be funny or trying to get likes.
i agree with u. A lot of ppl comment on the internet the first which comes in their head and thats understandably normal but sadly there are people who actually mean what they say although they are in the minority and these are the type of ppl who make the most noise and trollers support their take to get some fun out of it. There are also ppl who actually somehow get convinced by these trolls that their narrative is correct. I think dom and the boys were talking about these ppl. (Sorry about rambling btw)
The reason why Swiss stage is played at LEC studio is just a question of basic economics. Riot makes all the money, they are Chinese company and Asia is the biggest market by player base. So why they would invest money to NA or EU? They don't care about spending money on "marketing" game.
I think you miss a piece on the community aspect. The probability of 'emotional' response from fan is proportionate to their identification to the communities. With all due respect, most people do not identify as a yamato,idw, caedrel fan, they watch their stream as they are good creators. But are probably more fnc/g2/tsm... fans. When someone identify as something (the easiest parallel is nationality) they tempt to respond more emotionally to comment/critics regarding their team/country/family... as they take the comment on an attack on themself. Ppl identify as KC fans, Fnc fans, mad fans, T1 fans, as such it's part of their identity. And hence some of them become toxic and perform maladaptive behaviour when you criticise the object of identification. It's unlikely to happen with casual streamers like caedrel iwd yamato as they are lesser object to identification from watchers
Istg twitch just needs to come w a plugin of sorts where the view nr from the costreamer can actually be fed to broadcast. Like when we watch liveview on doms website, we're all a view for Dom, and a view for the broadcast because both are open. Surely Twitch could figure out something automatic, or Riot could incentivize twitch to do so or something, it doesnt sound like it should be that hard and then Riot finally doesnt have to be mad at costreamers anymore
nah i honestly see in completely differently. i genuinely think esports is becoming bigger and bigger. its wayyyy more accepted now as an actual and legit thing, compared to 15-20 years ago. i honestly hope someone uses statistics and actual analysis than "oh i heard some t1 fan saying how league will die if faker retires" its so disrespectful to all the rising stars in league. only time will tell
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Watching Yamato’s face trying to compliment those when I know he daily drives the HD600s was just too funny lol.
Manscaped sponsor would also go crazy 😂
Thank you Dom for giving a platform to smaller content creators like Caedrel!
Tbh he unironically did at the start of caedrels career (if I’m not mistaken)
@@jazeroliversy673 yes he did, he was one of the big factors to Caedrel getting mainstream attention. I assume OP mentioned that
The real ones remember "The Tribe"
@@nguyentri3608 "The Tribe" Where the cringe Harry Potor memes spawned x3
So nice of him.
Glad that the Caedrel episode came to fruition... I thought that he may have... Canceled it.
Why would they have canceled it?
@@NewUser000NewUser it is a meme about Caedrel cancelling malzahar ulti buddy dw :>
😏
@morelkowa1 ohhh my slow ass didn't made the connection. Thx.
lmao
Glad Dom is giving shine to former pros who have left the scene. Haven't heard of this guy since the Malzahar incident
All my favourite streamers together in a single video , feels good to watch man. RATDOWN for the win!
I am convinced the mentality has just gotten worse in esports. How can nobody appreciate it anymore, when a 'worse' team wins? How is it "Team X is doomed, they are so bad, boosted, my region???" instead of "how has this other team won? Are they insane or what?"
I remember when Albus Nox Luna got out of groups and everybody was going crazy how they managed to do it. It was all about the winning team and I think that was beautiful
Yep. G2 wins against asian teams "ThE otHEr teAmS aRe CHokInG" - I sometimes wunder that such people don't choke on their mental problems. EU "fans" always seem to find lots of different stuff to cry about, it's actually insane - how about... Supporting the teams instead?
Oh no, even back then it was about how ROX Tigers was able to lose as the number 1 Seed of Korea and the rest of the teams being so bad to not achieve anything (G2 for example). The Upset by Albus Nox Luna was great (tough russian teams had a very good record in the past at international tournaments) and it brought up the idea to give more regions the exposure of worlds (therefore the Play-In Stage a year later).
@@itsjustgod9034 Because viewers are not as clueless as back then in 2013. We can already see whenever LCK LPL teams choke on drafts or when one member is completely running it down. The game is already solved from the viewer's perspective.
@@Mark-tt8oo most of the times its used for no reason tho, "its just because Xyz player choked" when he wasn't playing bad
because 100T was awful
Rest in Peace to Caedrel at the end 💀
bro it came out 5 mins befoe this comment how u make it to end
@@abhisangu3175 he works for LFN, or at least does some behind the scenes stuff for these episodes
@@abhisangu3175 I edited this XD
@@SKT_Light next time just cut the whole ending lol, set some technical difficulties or something, that was a slippery slope in the end, as right after the guest just said so nice things about them, they kindda diminished their own value by a lot with the ballsack thing.. all that was best in the dark.. caedrel just wanted to dissapear
All caps off for Caedrel. Finally a face in the streaming industry that doesn't make streamers look like degenerates.
The relegation/promotion system is hype for the same reason european football leagues are compared to the MLS. Of course you run into the problem of giant teams with loads of money siphoning all the upcoming talent, but you also have great underdog stories like 2015-16 Leicester, 2020-21 Lille, or last season the great runs of Girona and Bologna, making it into the Champions League for the first time in their history. That's like the amazing stories like Unicorns of Love or Griffin had. We have none of those in franchising. And we have bottomfeeders doing absolutely nothing to improve or make good teams. When teams like Astralis went multiple splits bottom 2, investing nothing into their team, hoping someone would pay for their spot so they can come out with some profit. Underperforming teams that lack the motivation, the skill, the talent to compete should not play in the premier competition. And this would also increase the stakes for top teams. They would have to improve, make good rosters, better staff and so on, otherwise they risk getting overtaken by upcoming teams and even risk getting relegated. Bigger stakes always makes better competition. And yes, it sucks for the players who get relegated, like it does for football players in Europe, but if you are a good enough talent, there will be an org most likely that will pick you up. It's obviously harder when you have only 5 slots on a team, not 11 starters and a 25 man team, but hey, something for something. If you are not good enough to make it with high stakes, you shouldn't be on a top level team. If you just want to linger around and get payed, you shouldn't be a professional competitor.
Promotion relegation gave us Griffin and Damwon
Thank god this dropped after worlds stream ended. Needed more content
About the streamer content thing I think it’s also that a lot of your viewers watch you for your personality which is what the content is when your reacting, but a lot of us still love the analytical stuff because it’s how we became fans of you guys in the first place
I kinda feel bad for Caedrel somehow. I can see the anxiety in him. I can see the thoughts racing. If you see this Caedrel you are insanely talented and I respect the effort you put into this.
He is too insecure and gets affected by comments alot
@@yasar666he is the largest personality in league atm so everything he says will be way more impactful he even talks about it at the start?
The cancel culture is tough and so dumb
@@silselver6100yeah man, like is really sad that while caedrel didn't have the best pro career ever he is mostly remember by that infamous cancellation
Ain't no way Dom got Caedrel on Sackdown before GTA 6 dropped
gta 6 will still drop before elder scrolls 6
@@mahatmaniggandhi2898 I don’t want to see what either of these games will be with what the game industry is right now
I mean, they have done content together before many many times, even these 3 specifically together have done a podcast before. It's not crazy at all
i mean theyre friends why not
bros a 30yr old league streamer not lebron james
The Sackdown is definitely my favorite league podcast rn, Dom + Yamato good vibes
Thank you for this and every previous episode! It's a great way to keep up with the behind the scenes, learn in depth and higher level league related knowledge and also relax and have a laugh or two!
People that say league is dying dont realize that this is only happening in the west China and Korea are growing ,but truth be told ,in the end there is a player cap ,league is probably still the most played game in the world for like 10 years it seems ,that is very rare ,so a slight down in number is inevitable
it is actually apparently starting to slightly die off in China, I believe there was some viewership issues over the LPL season, so wouldn't say it is ONLY the west.
@@RMYLIA china's market is so big they can absorb a little shrinkage. if it's dying in the west, the west shouldn't host tournaments. it's so incredibly lame to hold worlds in a tiny studio.
@@RMYLIA I saw news about this year being record breaking in terms of veiwers in LPL, so I'm not so sure, but Chineese streaming numbers are hard to get.
@@jal-kx6tmwhy is everyone freaking out for the studio thing, worlds last year was in the lck studio for a good portion of the tournament as well. The hate bias is crazy
but the west is where the big bucks and hype are. Asian people are too serious.
this is genuinely the best podcast it keeps delivering
I agree G2 might be top 8 in strength, but the "team kill, so west have a high chance in top eight, so must have a western team in top 8 ranking" narrative is so wrong. Even if eastern teams are so much better and auto wins vs western team we still possibly have a western team in top 8 exactly due to team kill, and that says anything to the strength of western team.
I don't always have the time to watch the content, but i've been more or less actively watching back since the beginning of costreaming. I love and appreciate that in this major recess of esport, we still have our goated streamers watching and breaking down pro league for our entertainment. Thank you guys for everything and lets hope for a hype worlds
Guys, this was the single best piece of content to come out of the entire scene in years maybe? It was clearly very cathartic for you to vent together, and it was great to listen to. I think this works so well because you're both (sorry, Yamato, you're getting there xox) so huge on your own platforms, so when you colaborate occasionally and shoot the shit it feels exciting. You three and the the rest of the LFN crew are my favorite pundits in the space, and I'm really glad you came together to make a platform like LFN which does legitimately broach topics in an open way which you don't see on other outlets
I think maybe Riot have stopped viewing eSports as good value marketing and instead are viewing the universe expansion through Arcane as just exponentially more valuable. I don't think it's wise, because while Arcane is a great hook, it's not going to keep a player in the game like the attachments following the careers of esports players is. However, it's clear that they don't understand loss leading or some internal statistic has been magic'd up to say it's not worthwhile, and in the decade of capitalising on IP, that's the goal.
Very few lol players actually follow the careers of esports players
@@nigamnation people follow players, just not to a crazy degree. Faker is the most obvious one, but basically all worlds winners and some particular talents like Kiin, Peanut, Gala, and the Griffin players all also have sway as names that people get nostalgic for and will tune in to see succeed.
@@Derploopyou are underestimating the amount of people who play lol and do not follow esports. It's a massive percentage of the playerbase.
Fallout made bestheda alot of while arcane fans were told by league players to not even try the game lmao. You made riot lose money so they cut the budget
Out of the 20 friends of mine that play league maybe 1 of them know anyone other than faker. The average league player has zero idea about pro play. Straight up. @@Derploop
you three have made up my personality this entire year and thank you so much for talking about narratives. i get so annoyed by people who obviously dont watch much league esports say some random shit but im sure none of us can prove them wrong except them winning worlds or something. its something that is unavoidable but im glad that its definitely not crazy to at least have some basis in arguments.
The Ratdown featuring Sally
I personally I enjoy longer spilts then 3 different ones, I feel like it gives the teams and players more time to get better and work things out
Drink a shot, every time Yamato says fuckin ^^
How many shots deep are you now?
@@nilsarnerlof9633 i just watched it now. i am fuckin wasted...
Amazing episode, huge respect to Caedrel for doing this interview/podcast
I believe Caedrel played a crucial role in turning around the narrative surrounding my favorite player, Razork. I will always respect him for his fairness and for refusing to contribute to the negativity.
I really hope league of legends ESPORTS never dies.
The talk about the future of lolesports and fighting against certain narratives was super interesting. Good video
I think they are correct. Without relegation and the chance for lower league players to get to the big stages just through gameplay alone it just lacks the stakes for most people to really get into it.
A western team making top 8 is not the same as ranking a western team at top 8. Caedrel even mentions that region kill is what gets them into top 8, so the teams killing the eastern region team is the better team, only losing out to another eastern team.
On top of that, it doesn't make sense to rank G2 as top 8 based on Caps' clutch performance, when that isn't taken into account for player rankings. Faker is absent from the list based on RECENT performance, but Caps is not? Faker has a lot more clutch performance than Caps.
Did you not watch all of LEC summer? Caps and Hans carried G2 the whole split. He also mentioned how Dylan Falco and G2 always have new reads on the meta that catch teams off guard which is another reason you can't count them out. Caps had one of his best individual years in 2024 but I really don't think you can say that for Faker, despite the clutch plays here and there.
G2 is definitely not a shocker to the Top 8 ranking but definitely shouldn't go higher given how poor they've been playing recently.
Caedrel and his lawyer
bro, yamato's ad reads are just always so GOATED
We need more of this 3 guys together. Great content
Why am I only now learning of this channel and podcast??? Great content guys!
High quality videos strengthen your core fanbase. I loved The Shy video, it was great
This is so great, i would looooove seeing you three together more
I feel like Riot are not seeing esports as a celebration of the game anymore except for the finals where they pull out all the stops. All the steps leading up to those finals do not matter as much to them as only the esports fans go there. Wouldn't be surprised to see quarters being chopped down to a smaller venue next year.
This was such a fun episode :D
If yammato was casting in swedish he would instantly be my number one costreamer, I cannot imagine how that would sound, but I'm all up for it XD
THIS SHOW IS THE FACE OF THE BRAND!!!! YA GOING CRAZY!!!!
This is gonna be most viewed calling it now !!
So happy to see Make-A-Wish was able to help Caedrel meet his idol Yamato and IWD
Crazy how they talk about making a team in erl. They really put that into the world and made it come true. NLC looks hype af.
They need to make a podcast and call it "The Counsel"
regarding the stuff about what riot gets from co-streamers: do they not get to use the viewership numbers in their reports to sponsors? pretty sure costreams are a huge boost overall to their final numbers
Yes, they do
I think the argument for dropping broadcast for costream is wrong. I am convinced that if there was no casters from the broadcast on the costream A LOT of people would watch the main broadcast instead of a costream
Oh no, the Hulu Theatre wasn't as big or loud as I remember ROX vs SKT, the seats surrounded the stage (it was semis vs quarters but still) vs one single stage, I was pretty close to the front in both but Hulu was alright. Still would love for Worlds to return to NYC.
sack down because yamato's sack is the furthest down is hilarious
Two eps in a week? Lessgooo
I think just different release schedule due to worlds
content piece of the year
The Tribe and The Sack crossover 😢 just in time for Febiven's final trip into the garden
o7
The golden era of the sack bro, before all the T1 crazies came in. RIP The Tribe
Super wunder man episode when?
I Would love a super Wunder man episode
It's great to see Yamato allowing the Rat King and the Crackhead a platform to share their addiction of TheShy.
I really don’t get why we have worlds at Europe if they care the least about the product. Just go with China and Korea If only they make something cool out of it xD
yup, it's an insult to league fans globally to hold worlds in a small studio.
Tbh it sounds more like a management issue than a budget issue with Rito (priorities). You improve everything else except viewership, more viewers means more players, more players means big bucks, you get the fundamentals right, you employ more people to cast, stream, analyze then you keep improving the game. And LEC and LCS prefer to pay imports now from KR than build an academy and invest in home grown talent... Have their own stars break out in the scene and shine with their merits. Make them believe, the fans and community can only feel that for players they can relate to. Expect your league to die out. Domestic support is important before you can be internationally competitive.
@@offthegrid777 Yeah thats true, but they already fumbled the ball so hard. LEC can maybe get back on track but they now killed the LCS and basically all of America as a whole. I am so sad about Brazil, because their league was one who did it right. They cared for their own region and the stores they write. Brazilian Fans are still mega mad that their region gets sacrifcied to "rescue" the LCS. I can understand them fully. Turkey was also cut last year, because they were integrated in the EMEA region, which meant that they downgraded from a small region to a non existent one who can now only play inside the EMEA via the EMEA Masters.
If Riot continues to just destroy smaller regions, who can build themselves up, they are going to end LoL Esports for all the future players.
I'm so sad to hear that theShy video didn't do well for Dom. I loved that one.
Would love a scarra or imaqt epsisode talking about the old days with you guys
closing out with caedral gray screen got me
12:19 mah big brain boi scarra, always ahead of the curve, so smart 🥹
3:49 "Yes you do" I can't man
caedrel went 28 minutes before discussing his uber eats orders
For worlds, the stream AdSense itself is negligible. Its the baked in sponsorships that are lucrative. And they still get "eyes on" for affiliated co-streams. It's just up to them to make sure that the total viewership is counted accurately when shopping out to advertisers.
I hear you Ceadrel 51:56 and I agree with you. A team winning as the underdog is more impressive, and should be celebrated. The issue tho is that when some people like Dom and Monte talk about T1's run last year they don't really give them credit for it. They still to this day imply that JDG was somehow the better team, and T1 won by luck or because JDG just decided to radomly choke that day.
So while I agree with you that fans should expect analysts to rate the teams on their current level, said analysts can't bring themselves to give credit where credit is due.
you are incredibly retarded
If so, then you have probably only watched dom and monte in clips which are probably out of context, or they are probably being slightly sarcastic
The point that they are saying is that JDG was the better team throughout the year, but obviously the ramp up and glow up of T1 post that GENG series in worlds was something special
MYFRAUD NO WAY
Love you caedrel! Keep up the good work
the worst community narrative is that the part about it is the longest part of the video
On the topic of "putting money in the right places", it's something that can be seen in other markets as well, for example the general gaming market and AAA-game developers. There's been a lot of complaints from both sides - the AAAs complaining that they're not getting the results for the amount of money they're putting in, and there's been a steadily building distrust for the AAAs among the gaming community because the games have either been unfinished(/broken) on release, games that are largely just reskins of the previous game with some extra fluff, and/or games being uninspiring and uninteresting. There's also certain games/companies that put out way too many different DLCs compared to the amount of content and things like that, but that's a bit of a different topic.
While there are exceptions where AAAs put out great games, the general opinion of most people that aren't just casual gamers seem to be that there's no point in paying attention to the AAA market; you're better off looking one step down, toward the slightly smaller (AA) studios, as you're far less likely to see the issue that plague the larger companies. What's missing is - at it's core - passion. The devteams that were originally fueled by passion in the AAA companies have long since been milked dry, laid off, torn apart, etc. If they ever see a new success, they'll rip it apart and try to find every way they can milk it or find the reason for the success, failing to notice that they're the ones taking away the most important piece.
As an end result, the AAAs just throw money at the problem, putting excessive amounts into poorly optimized ideas, teams and projects that usually just end up making stuff that *look* or seem impressive, but often end up hollow and dull, because while things look good or smooth, there's a lack of depth. There's the saying that you can polish a turd, but it's still a turd; that's essentially what they're doing with any game project that lacks direction and passion - they're throwing a lot of money into making it pretty and impressive, but that's not what people play games for. Sure, a lot of people appreciate and want games that look amazing, but if the game under all that polish is shit, people aren't gonna stick around.
That's where you often find that the successful AAs, As and indie game developers (mind you, not all of them, just the ones that stand out) differ from the AAA; most of them aren't driven and controlled solely by money - there's still a vision, a dream, goal, desire and/or passion in the dev teams. Regardless of whether it's a "small" game like Among Us or a larger game like Baldur's Gate 3, in almost every greatly successful game there's one thing they tend to have in common: The game was a passion project. The developers *cared* about the game. It wasn't ONLY to rake in cash, they were passionate about the game they were developing.
Unfortunately, there's almost always this sort of disconnect between the large companies and the actual customers or even the product ideas they're producing. However, if any of the AAA companies all the way up to the top were to actually understand this and adapt to it, they would probably end up completely dominating the market, as suddenly you could start seeing passion projects that are backed by AAA budgets.
That said, that requires a lot of correct pieces; without them, while unsatisfying and frustrating to the customers, it's much more "correct" for the AAAs to keep doing what they're doing - while it won't become the next big thing, it's generally a safer option than risking into the unknown. You'd need a lot of research and multiple people along the chain knowing what they're doing for that to work.
One of the best episodes yet 😂
When Caedrel doubled down on the underpants I was dying lmao
I'm actually hyped for TL/G2/DK bet.
The first thing about the LEC studio, the audience was definitely loud in tbe first couple matches, could see it being fine, but definitely think the Esport is in a trough rn, I hope there is a resurgence and they can learn from their mistakes.
Non cringe ads, very nice , pay these men .
I think you guys should introduce the guests before diving right in. I know a lot of people know caedral but for other guests you guys should say who they are, their team, their accomplishments, their backgrounds and how get got there etc. I think it would be great for lesser known people.
They have done it for everyone but ceadral
@@iasonmax3473 I meant introduce the guests before the beginning of the video like right at the start with who they are, their accomplishments and brief history of teams etc. Not just saying the guest name and then going right into the topics of the podcast.
@@ilikepie023all the guests so far have been extremely well known people in the scene.
@@vexacion9735 It's just a suggestion because I think it'll make the show better imo. A good example would be the intros on Shannon Sharpe's podcast he introduces guests well.
@@vexacion9735not really tho, i’m a new league fan and only know caedrel . Introduction would be nice for fans like me
1:36:00 well g2, dk and tl... Yeah man that couldn't age better
I've never been to San Antonio/Austin so good shit on talking about Buc-ee's, sounds like a badass pit stop
League isn't dead it just smells a little funny.
THE RAT DOWN
This turtle beach ad is fucking hilarious.
Domato dropping another fucking banger for worlds.
:yooo yomato i have the same Buc'ee's cup, I can recognize it right away. 28:51
Drinking game: Every time Yamato says "Fackin", have a sip of your drink.
ik its unlikely but i would like a sneaky ep
9:25 unban accounts. My main account with like 18 Mastery 7 champions got permanent banned for calling my teammate a f****** feeder and trolling in multiple games but that is like not even bad compared to what you see. Maybe then and only then people will want to come back to the game because starting from scratch is pointless
I honestly want the old lec format back. I cant watch every week and with the new format you are out, if you miss one week.
weird thing to compliment but yamato's ad reads are pretty good
I want to say about the first half of the podcast and naratives. I believe a lot what people say they dont truly mean its just that its the first thing that pops in their heads and/or they think its funny. At least some of the comments are not made with strong beliefs its more about getting engagement or trolling or trying to be funny or trying to get likes.
i agree with u. A lot of ppl comment on the internet the first which comes in their head and thats understandably normal but sadly there are people who actually mean what they say although they are in the minority and these are the type of ppl who make the most noise and trollers support their take to get some fun out of it. There are also ppl who actually somehow get convinced by these trolls that their narrative is correct. I think dom and the boys were talking about these ppl. (Sorry about rambling btw)
Enjoyed this episode of the "Rat Sack"
The reason why Swiss stage is played at LEC studio is just a question of basic economics. Riot makes all the money, they are Chinese company and Asia is the biggest market by player base. So why they would invest money to NA or EU? They don't care about spending money on "marketing" game.
I think you miss a piece on the community aspect. The probability of 'emotional' response from fan is proportionate to their identification to the communities. With all due respect, most people do not identify as a yamato,idw, caedrel fan, they watch their stream as they are good creators. But are probably more fnc/g2/tsm... fans. When someone identify as something (the easiest parallel is nationality) they tempt to respond more emotionally to comment/critics regarding their team/country/family... as they take the comment on an attack on themself. Ppl identify as KC fans, Fnc fans, mad fans, T1 fans, as such it's part of their identity. And hence some of them become toxic and perform maladaptive behaviour when you criticise the object of identification. It's unlikely to happen with casual streamers like caedrel iwd yamato as they are lesser object to identification from watchers
Istg twitch just needs to come w a plugin of sorts where the view nr from the costreamer can actually be fed to broadcast. Like when we watch liveview on doms website, we're all a view for Dom, and a view for the broadcast because both are open. Surely Twitch could figure out something automatic, or Riot could incentivize twitch to do so or something, it doesnt sound like it should be that hard and then Riot finally doesnt have to be mad at costreamers anymore
Time for Dom to be a TFT streamer
The crossover!!! That came out of nowhere XD
Cluege first time chatter
perfection!
nah i honestly see in completely differently. i genuinely think esports is becoming bigger and bigger. its wayyyy more accepted now as an actual and legit thing, compared to 15-20 years ago. i honestly hope someone uses statistics and actual analysis than "oh i heard some t1 fan saying how league will die if faker retires"
its so disrespectful to all the rising stars in league. only time will tell
19:28 Very mindful, very demure :'D
no longer a curious episode, it's now the f*ckin episode
its hilarious to watch this now that worlds is almost over. Chovy still choking
Damn no malz ult mentioned Sadje
Would be so cool if you guys can get Kameto on this not specifialy on kcorp but in league esport in general, owning an org what to do etc
No chapters?
3rd co host?