It's also possible to take an existing product, like a Lionel tender, and reverse engineer your own die around it. I've a sister who works in a small foundry and that is a common process when a new die is needed for certain parts that become otherwise unobtainable in oilfield and hydro applications.
As someone who has nearly 40 years working in the plastic molding industry I can tell you that; if the same tooling was used the tenders would IDENTICAL... not just SIMILAR. The fact that you show differences at multiple location around the top, sides, and ends, indicates to me that different tools were used. That is because even small changes to the Lionel tool, in all those different areas, would cost almost as much as a new tool anyway. Add that to the cost of purchasing the original too, and a modified too would be as expensive - if not more so - as the original. The more likely scenario, for the simularities, is that both models were simply modeled off the same prototype.
I agree with the posters pointing out the differences between the Lionel and Marx Sloped Back Tenders. Also, the tender itself is a relatively common tender. The only thing that Marx may have done is to purchase the locomotive and tender from a dealer to use it as a reference piece for their model. This isn't uncommon in any industry to see what a competitor is offering. This may be the true story on how the have some things in common.
Marx seems to have copied Lionel and flyer sometimes. The Marx switches were almost clones of the prewar AF switches. The Santa Fe F units were meant to compete directly with Lionel’s F units but at a lower price. This slope back tender does seem to have been largely copied from Lionel’s. They even did some of the same paint schemes, like the state of maine boxcars that Lionel had. A large market for Marx was department and mail order stores like Sears and wards, they wanted to offer sets as similar as possible to Lionel , but at a lower price.
I don't think that Marx had any access to Lionel's tooling. They were competitors, and Marx consistently was able to undercut Lionel's prices and offer electric train sets that were friendlier to the buyer with a more limited budget. Marx's cheap trains were a significant reason for Lionel's 'scout' line offered in the late '40s and early '50s. Some others have already pointed it out, but additionally, the multitude of subtle differences don't make sense if Marx had access to the tooling- if the tooling was the same, the Marx and Lionel tenders would be identical in things like rivet pattern and dimensions. It seems far more likely, that Marx wanted a slope-back tender, and decided to copy Lionel's. This would account for the similarity, while not quite being identical. This isn't unusual- in the HO world, there are many copycats, but the key is generally that if the tooling went from one company to another, you'll see traits that match perfectly, even if the tooling was altered some. If there's lots of subtle differences, then odds are they're unrelated. It's always fun to look at similarities between items. Marx 3/16" scale tinplate cars with 'scale' trucks have wheels and axles much the same as the 3/16" scale O gauge rolling stock that Gilbert was producing after it acquired American Flyer, in the few years before WWII and the switch to S gauge.
It's also possible to take an existing product, like a Lionel tender, and reverse engineer your own die around it. I've a sister who works in a small foundry and that is a common process when a new die is needed for certain parts that become otherwise unobtainable in oilfield and hydro applications.
As someone who has nearly 40 years working in the plastic molding industry I can tell you that; if the same tooling was used the tenders would IDENTICAL... not just SIMILAR. The fact that you show differences at multiple location around the top, sides, and ends, indicates to me that different tools were used. That is because even small changes to the Lionel tool, in all those different areas, would cost almost as much as a new tool anyway. Add that to the cost of purchasing the original too, and a modified too would be as expensive - if not more so - as the original. The more likely scenario, for the simularities, is that both models were simply modeled off the same prototype.
Very enjoyable video Thx
I agree with the posters pointing out the differences between the Lionel and Marx Sloped Back Tenders. Also, the tender itself is a relatively common tender. The only thing that Marx may have done is to purchase the locomotive and tender from a dealer to use it as a reference piece for their model. This isn't uncommon in any industry to see what a competitor is offering. This may be the true story on how the have some things in common.
Marx seems to have copied Lionel and flyer sometimes. The Marx switches were almost clones of the prewar AF switches. The Santa Fe F units were meant to compete directly with Lionel’s F units but at a lower price. This slope back tender does seem to have been largely copied from Lionel’s. They even did some of the same paint schemes, like the state of maine boxcars that Lionel had. A large market for Marx was department and mail order stores like Sears and wards, they wanted to offer sets as similar as possible to Lionel , but at a lower price.
I don't think that Marx had any access to Lionel's tooling. They were competitors, and Marx consistently was able to undercut Lionel's prices and offer electric train sets that were friendlier to the buyer with a more limited budget. Marx's cheap trains were a significant reason for Lionel's 'scout' line offered in the late '40s and early '50s.
Some others have already pointed it out, but additionally, the multitude of subtle differences don't make sense if Marx had access to the tooling- if the tooling was the same, the Marx and Lionel tenders would be identical in things like rivet pattern and dimensions.
It seems far more likely, that Marx wanted a slope-back tender, and decided to copy Lionel's. This would account for the similarity, while not quite being identical.
This isn't unusual- in the HO world, there are many copycats, but the key is generally that if the tooling went from one company to another, you'll see traits that match perfectly, even if the tooling was altered some. If there's lots of subtle differences, then odds are they're unrelated.
It's always fun to look at similarities between items. Marx 3/16" scale tinplate cars with 'scale' trucks have wheels and axles much the same as the 3/16" scale O gauge rolling stock that Gilbert was producing after it acquired American Flyer, in the few years before WWII and the switch to S gauge.
Before watching the video…I have the same theory as you do just by looking at the Thumbnail
Nice layout.
Thank you!