In my current personal project, I'm writing a backend and several clients all in Rust, including a frontend using Yew. There is one boon that WASM gives you that you didn't touch on. You can directly share libraries between your backend and frontend. No reimplementation. No bugs from translating between languages. You can ensure that the behavior of your data structures is identical between every piece of the project. Fix a bug once, and you're done!! The message passing pattern showcased is also a fantastic way to handle client-server communication and syncing of shared state.
I believe the web was designed in a flawed manner (client server). It should have been one right from the beginning or it should be reimagined by browsers of today.
@@aeonsleo2 certainly not everything that's currently done using the client-server model has much need to be done that way (with caveats I'll elide here), but... for some things, it strikes me as inherently necessary. Like, do you have suggestions on how one might write, say, an e-commerce site that doesn't use a client-server model in some manner? If so, how?
@@NoBoilerplate I've had my eyes on Rust for a couple of years but haven't found any reason to try it yet, still waiting for that day to happen. (I am a Rails dev so I mostly develop within the web) BUT there is an ongoing rewrite of Ruby called Artichoke, in … of course Rust.
@@mikopiko Ha! The whole world is oxidising! rocket.rs is the closest to Rails that I've seen, though it's more like Sinatra with strong community plugin support. Rails is wild isn't it! We use it at work here and there!
I completely agree! I use the game framework Macroquad for little games that I make, and it has support for WASM! No lag, no hassle, just "cargo build --release --target=wasm32-unknown-unknown"!
The rust ecosystem never ceases to amaze. I can see that in just years from now, rust will be able to do quite literally everything. A _new_ javascript if you will
@@NoBoilerplate it's also faster as compiled binaries. I ported a program I designed as a lightweight background program in c# to rust and the memory usage was cut in 7 and cpu usage went from 0.1 % to unmeasurable. Thanks to rusts high level feel it wasn't as painful as c/c++ even though I needed to use the raw windows window functions.
PSA: Remember that rendering to a canvas breaks the accessibility of the page. Screen readers won't read elements aloud, being able to copy-paste text gets lost, no auto reflow is possible with CSS, etc. 🙏👍
Lack of accessibility is currently a drawback, although my feeling is long-term screen-readers are going to be replaced by AI chatbots anyways. Copy-paste is an interesting problem, although there must be a way to hold text in a state that the cursor could then grab, depending on the framework used.
> my feeling is long-term screen-readers are going to be replaced by AI chatbots anyway I'm guessing you don't use a screen reader or have any close friends who need them
Imagine wasting your time writing clean and performant code to interact with the DOM instead of using a heavy and cumbersome -framework- library like React.
I’m finally getting to the point I grok the lifetime errors the compiler is complaining about at a glance, and can instantly think where I messed up and where I need to go fix. It used to be that algebraic data types were my gold standard to consider a modern language usable or not, but now I can’t imagine programming without a borrow checker. Literally, Ive been working on this personal project (a distributed event framework) for months with type level programming, and at roughly 3500 lines of code before a minimum executable demo, it executed not just successfully but correctly too. Literally first try. I was in shock. I was fully expecting to debug for hours or days. I’m in love with this language.
the procedural macros are the most genius and mind blowing feature to ever exist in a programming language, rust basically solved the source generators problem in the most elegant way and went a step beyond
This is literally why I'm here. They've existed in lisp for longer than most of us have been alive, but it's AWESOME that rust took the best parts of lisp!
HONESTLY this is how I feel. I'm learning so much about how stuff ACTUALLY works, by learning Rust! Tried to explain it in this one th-cam.com/video/0rJ94rbdteE/w-d-xo.html
I'm learning React right now so I can get a job. If only I could use rust for this! Will definitely look into it more if I ever make my own personal projects.
Brilliant philosophy. Im learning react + nextjs for my career, with remix as my personal choice. That way personal projects will be efficient but I'm still hirable
Rust is so blazingly fast, I downloaded and installed it 5 times thinking something was wrong, literally micro seconds installation of the compiler. It was only after running rustc that I found out that the compiler installed already!
Quadratic looks awesome, was just today hearing from a friend that has to fight Excel and VB at work, where he is locked into Microsoft products. This looks like such a cool, modern alternative! I love the idea of bringing python and it's whole ecosystem into the mix.
You present Rust in such a way that I feel like I want to learn it so much... It's just that I JUST got my first programming job a couple of weeks ago and I also have a couple of Java and JS projects still unfinished, and a freelance gig with Python. Yet the less time I have, the more drawn to Rust i become lol
Congratulations! Welcome to a really great industry :-D Don't worry about it, you'll learn 10 new languages (if you've got the right attitude) during your career. 5 of which haven't been invented yet! Rust's a great one to learn for now.
@@NoBoilerplate Thank you for the reply. I was planning to build a multiplayer Android/ios, very simple card game in Java. I am now thinking of doing it in Rust. Would it be too hard, in your opinion? Or should I start somewhere else?
@@varsketisLT I think you'll have a much more INTERESTING life if you write it in Rust! The game engine we like around these parts is bevyengine.org Come chat to us in #newbie-advice on my discord server, links on noboilerplate.org!
Thank you for this video! I started working with Rust Wasm today and got a basic webserver and website running that changes what's displayed based on the web parameters. Very happy with how it turned out - especially that no JS was required.
i'm excited to try yew out - i've been doing React for work for years, and i've done a bit of by-hand rust-wasm here and there, plus a fair bit of rust+react. this feels like the next logical step in basically every way
Your videos inspired me to learn Rust and I'm so glad I did! I've already converted several of my personal projects. Whenever someone asks me for info about Rust I always point them to your videos.
Great video as always :) I love yew. As always, don't underestimate the learning curve (as with everything rust) - you need to spend some time with the current webassembly stack in rust to really get going. Once you have that, you pick up speed and that's the point where it gets really great. For example we had to process a big excel file and send some parts to the server.. well, guess what: Just use an excel reader crate - process everything client side and send a payload of a few kb instead of 20mb. You can even have shared types in your front and backend and send the payloads back and fourth in the perfect format - apply some validators there and you have input validation everywhere! Just some input to underline the things you can have for free :)
Fantastic video, as always! I'd also like to congratulate you on your choice of sponsors. This is the first time I've seen sponsorships in videos that really interest me and that I'm going to look into, keep it up!
The biggest downside is still that Wasm can't interact with the DOM of a website directly and relies on JavaScript. Even if you write everything in Rust to interact with the DOM, Wasm translates it into JS, which then interacts with the DOM. This eventually results in a bottleneck. The guys over at Wasm are saying they're working on a way around this. I'm sure once they have a solution, browsers will need to add support for that. Once this is solved, that's when things will get interesting. Imagine websites running on Rust/Wasm with direct access to the DOM api without the need for JavaScript.
@@NoBoilerplate Yes. React is not a particularly fast framework. Svelte, Vue, and Preact are all faster than Yew according to the js framework benchmark. Using WASM for DOM manipulation can't be as fast as vanilla js, as of rn.
@@zomakaja Right, that makes sense. Seems like wasm dom manipulation is fast enough though, if it's faster than react - how many websites are powered by react!
At 0:25 you mentioned that AWS supports Rust. That is sort of true, but not quite. Everywhere that the AWS Rust SDK is mentioned, they state that the SDK is a preview and that it should not be used in production. Rusoto is the alternative
I had so much hope for this being a video about perseus. Even though perseus is still in very early development, it absolutely crushes nextjs with SSR *and* SSG support. It also is a backend and frontend in one framework. Their own website looks super good and only after like 2 seconds you are like "wow did it just instantly load"? I highly recommend checking it out, even if it is just for fun and giggles.
@@NoBoilerplate You are welcome:) Happy to share. Ever considered making a podcast or short video every month / 2 weeks, about new things in the rust ecosystem. Bit like the code report from Fireship but for Rust. There is a lot of new stuff happening in the Rust ecosystem and I think a lot of Rusteans would love to to get to know the new stuff, but sometimes are overwhelmed with all new things. Especially deciding if it is quality or garbage with a cool name.
@@job4753 Great idea! But I think I'll leave that to the professionals. My videos are featured in the various weekly roundup posts, newsletters and threads round about. I prefer to produce high impact, high value videos. I saw there was a lack of highly-produced introductory content in the Rust community (Though Fireship is an exception), and I want to make sure as many people get excited about this world-changing language as possible. Once they're listening/reading the weekly roundups, the work is done, and the language sells itself 🙂
Looks interesting. How would the styling side of things work? I guess it would be an external stylesheet with classNames though. Also if it had a way to hot reload the way most front end frameworks/libraries do it could be a winner!
I think Swift and Nim would be really nice languages for WASM too, for people who don’t want to/have issues with learning the borrow checker. Both of them are getting closer and closer to making their GC/RC less often used. Swift is a lovely language, it kind of sucks it’s so heavily intertwined with the apple ecosystem.
I also wish that, but we must play the hand we are dealt! Rust isn't my favourite language because it's perfect, it's my favourite language because it's practical and we can build a team and get good work done NOW!
@@morkallearns781 Not yet I don’t think? inout arguments block you from passing both an immutable and mutable “reference” to a value, but no ownership (yet)
The thing with Yew that really bothers me, is that the styling is still painful. Well, was painful, idk if today we have solid solutions. But once we’re getting something solid like CSS Modules or Styled components, I’m JUMPING in it!
You mentioned that we don't usually manipulate the DOM directly using Rust or JS? Why not? I recently made a web application to display content from a site, and I used DOM manipulation to add labels with extra data. I did what you showed at 2:43 where I created elements to append to another element, which I then appended to the page.
I don't think I said that - I mean that most of your application logic is plumbing, not UI code. JS can access the DOM directly, through the window.document api. WASM applications have to call js to then call window.document, so there's a layer of indirection.
Now, just imagine: Yew + Tauri. The perfect duo for cross platform desktop apps with the flexibility of WEB technologies and power/safety of Rust. Damn I want that now... Somebody knows Web-Rust Tauri bindgen tools? That's literally the last piece in the puzzle for seamless Rust-only desktop development.
I've been learning Rust for a couple of weeks now and although it hasn't been without it's headaches, those headaches have always been because of additional complexity that other languages keep hidden. A great example I ran into a couple of hours ago was when I tried to convert a char into uppercase. I was expecting to get a character out the other end, but I ended up with a completely different type which I couldn't convert. It turns out that converting certain characters to uppercase can result in more than one character being produced - an edge case that I never would have considered had I been writing in any other language. Over the years, there have been many crashes on operating systems like Android and iOS due to them missing edge cases of Unicode such as the one above. I can't help but wonder how many of them could have been avoided if the operating systems were programmed using Rust's spectacular error checking.
Hah, thats a cool. My main issue in getting into Rust tends to be to find good up-to-date tutorials. I only find very simple tutorials. And then keep getting stuck trying to write my own stuff. But trying to find an answer to my issues tends to find tons of outdated answers because Rust changed so much over time
@@MaakaSakuranbo yeah I'm really lucky in that I'm taking a university course on it so there's a whole team of dedicated teachers making the process as smooth running as possible.
@@miguelguthridge If you were asking about the uppercase char thing on Stackoverflow, I just saw your question. And if that wasn't you, a practically identical question is there.... fun and eye-opening discussion in comments and answers.
The biggest issue with react is implementation details bleeding into the abstraction. having to constantly duplicate objects with {...something, prop:"new value"} to set a new state because things are immutable being a key example. When you have an account balance and do +10 no one envisions that a brand new account is created with a value 10 more. The yew way of updates reminds me of a required useReducer hook as the only way to update.
Special request: Can you do a video on rust use cases (what you can do with rust) and also what you should actually use it for and not use it for. Cause I hear people say "Rust shouldn't be used for web dev (backend ofc) " Love the channel btw thank you
These videos and the level of content they maintain (more importantly) absolutely wonderful 🎉 Every time I think “how’s he going to make this interesting?” And yet you absolutely floor me. Please, just teach a class or something already. 🤦♂️ 💕
It seems like the only thing holding back Rust right now is time. Time for people to realize its potential, time for people to get used to the slightly different paradigms that it uses, and time for the ecosystem to develop and the language to stabilize a little.
Ooh, I'd heard of Yew, but now I want to play with it... thanks for turning my attention in that direction. Minor complaint: it would have been nice to show how to get this to actually load up. I've got that working for a simpler wasm thing, and I'm sure I'll figure it out, just... something to consider for future videos.
Thank you, but it's the tech that sells itself, honestly! The reason I'm over here making these videos is that I NEED more people to know that a pleasant programming life is possible :-) Have you tried much Rust yet? Make sure you've watched this intro video of mine th-cam.com/video/CJtvnepMVAU/w-d-xo.html
@@NoBoilerplate Thank you for sharing. Rust is on my scope for a while now. As of now I have to maintain a lot of hybrid web/apps (native), so things like ReactNative with Expo and Flutter. I'm already keen to try Dioxus, despite Rust still treating mobile as 2nd Tier target. I soon have to make a good decision and I couldn't thank you more for bringing this on my radar, once again.
I don't understand, you said that wasm is slower than JavaScript, in what way is this true? Wasm is much faster for many applications isn't it. Where is it slower? Interfacing with the DOM?
@@NoBoilerplate I don't understand why wasm can't (and people think it shouldn't) directly interface with the DOM. To me it makes perfect sense that we make JavaScript optional.
@@minerscale I couldn't agree more. Removing Javascript from web programming is an important step to allow the industry to heal from the damage XD Yew.rs is faster than react, and people say react is fast enough.
@@NoBoilerplate I like that the pendulum is finally swinging back to developing software 'the right way' with the proliferation of rust and wasm slowly making its way on the scene. Throwing away orders of magnitude of performance so your app can actually be a browser still seems popular though hahahaha.
@@minerscale I'm very excited about this trend too - we're getting back into taking things seriously in software! Yes, it's not as fast yet as it could be, certainly for DOM manipulation, but it's fast enough - and every browser release gets huge optimisations for wasm, so it's fast enough today, and very fast tomorrow!
This is a blessing. I am fed up with npm dependency issues and runtime errors which should have been handled in compile time had there been a compiler in PHP or Python
Hi, thanks for another video! Where did you get the statistic that Rust the cheapest language for lambda functions? Seems like a powerful argument to use in a classic "ehh guys, maybe we should start using Rust?" company discussion :)
Lambda is charged on run time and memory usage. Rust is as fast as C, and with a tiny runtime overhead. THEREFORE: Cheap on lambda! My next video, writing now, actually goes in to detail. I dread talking about it, because I'll have to talk about benchmarks - always an area of contention!
Not related to wasm in general but tauri + rust is a great tool to build things specifically if you want to create something which can work with system level features like running a custom-built ml model and pipeline but have a fast to prototype and great UI using web frameworks (although its slow but it gets the job done)
Yes, but you will have to build binaries for any platform you want. This can be automated, and most projects do so. There is first-class support across all common platforms, including OSX, Windows, and (my primary OS) Linux. The comprehensive page where you can see all compiler targets (including android and ARM!) is here doc.rust-lang.org/beta/rustc/platform-support.html
Dioxus is another option which is less verbose than yew and is faster than Svelte once loaded, which is a higher bar to beat than being faster than react.
I’m trying to get into using rust for web developement, my expirience with web developement as a whole is limited to AWS, goHugo, and an understanding of html and css. Would you say that learning yew as a front end and Axum would be a smart step foreward?
It's specifically in DOM manipulations that JS is faster, because in current implamentations WASM has to go *VIA* JS to touch the DOM. This is not the case with webgl or pure computation.
At the end where you are talking about where rust runs probably would be wise to mention for valid llvm targets. Until the gcc frontend is done there are still a lot of places rust won't run like a lot of embedded environments
@@NoBoilerplate There are some that LLVM runs on yeah, like I believe Pi's. Part of the whole "get Rust into the Rust Kernel" debate was because of the limits in what platforms LLVM allowed. But thanks to them agreeing to allow it for drivers (which clearly not every environment needs drivers) the lack of what targets LLVM allows doesn't matter so much. Now mind you some specialized hardware doesn't even get compiled to from GCC, in cases where the hardware vendor actually supplies their own compiler tool chain. That's an area where we may need to see the rust specification that is in the works come through before Rust can make inroads there.
Looks great, thanks for sharing! A little disagreement though, macros offer poor visibility in general regarding errors at compilation, and average support in IDEs because it's complex for them to interpret (for ex. with refactorization and type inference).
As a web developer with 8 years of experience, using react since the beginning, recently vue, I really really want this. But at the same time, I'm fairly confident that the industry won't be able to make the switch, not in the next 10 years at least.
But what about the WASM binary size? I remember that there's an article on some wiki about how to reduce it (compiler optimizations etc), but it still adds quite a bit, for example an optimized WASM file for a web project I'm doing (without any clearly "special" dependencies) is ~2MB..
My current Rust project is the peak of Rust full-stack development: Compiler for the esolang? Rust with Pest for lexing/parsing and Inkwell for compilation to LLVM IR. Website frontend for the esolang? Rust with Yew. Website backend with public compilation API (also used by the frontend)? Rust with Actix and possibly Diesel. Hotel? Trivago. I absolutely love this language and its ecosystem
One thing I haven't gotten my head around yet with Rayon is blocking the underlying Rayon worker with a channel. With Tokio, async channels allow for the future to pause while the worker executes other tasks while Rayon uses std::sync::mpsc::channel which will block the entire thread if you .recv() on it. Can you use Tokio with wasm?
Looks nice! Popularity is important, however: Yew has 10x the number of recent downloads on crates.io. I will follow Dioxus's progress with great interest, thank you!
I'd _really_ love to write an app using egui and have the same codebase for both web and native, but at least from my testing the performance isn't quite there yet. Also the accessibility issues. Definitely going to use yew in the future, though.
This and the Good Rust Web Stack video have inspired me to go full-stack Rust! I'm sure you have a lot on your plate, but I was curious if a Rust WebGL demo video is still in the works?
I didn't go too crazy with it, but I did put out part 2! th-cam.com/video/y10jJX35shE/w-d-xo.html And if you'd like my recommendations on how to learn rust further, here's my playlist: th-cam.com/video/2hXNd6x9sZs/w-d-xo.html
I'm trying to use rust to write files. I have various problems with creating text and files. I would love a video explaining howto work with text (or strings) I find it quite cumbersome in rust. Do you have a video og strings and io?
I want to believe. Can it be the first lang to transcend all abstraction layers? Will rocket truly bewebyet? Can Yew carve out enough share from React to make a small town to live in?
That's native Rust webassembly, exposed by wasm-bindgen, we never code using that plumbing, just as we never code javascript like the slide after demos. Try leptos.dev !
If the gtk library has been ported, yes! But you might find a pure rust UI library better to write in, as that can be compiled to wasm with no extra work. Take a look at EGUI!
Your videos are are very interesting an motivating. I would like to learn by creating a desktop application. But most GUI frameworks I could find until now are either for Web, are in an experimental state or not native in rust. Do you have maybe a recommendation for a rust native cross-platform (windows/linux) desktop application GUI framework/crate. It does not have to be beginner friendly. I rather looking to learn real world fundamentals. Thanks for the inspiring videos.
My pleasure! Yes, though there are GTK and QT bindings, I wouldn't go for them just yet. Try EGUI with eframe, or Tauri with Yew.rs. Do ask in #newbie-advice on my discord server, there's loads of nice people to help out!
I haven't looked into WASM in terms of Dom manipulation for a while but last time I checked it had to ship Javascript code to manipulate Dom which is basically made it a lot slower than vanilla Javascript. You mention React as a point of comparison but I can list you a sea of frameworks that are 10x and more times faster than react. Especially when things like Svelte And SolidJS exist. I still think WASM needs more work on the browser side before it can be used fully without depending on JS. Currently best use case for WASM is heavy duty apps and complex logic that needs to run in the browser that doesn't manipulate Dom elements.
I agree that wasm is terrific for number crunching, but I don't quite agree with your conclusion that we shouldn't use it for DOM manipulation. Most people don't care about benchmarks, only paying attention if things are too slow, and that doesn't happen for most people, right? How else do we explain React's popularity?
@@NoBoilerplate I guess my point is that for current web developers, WASM is just a nice option when you might complex and performant logic. But it's definitely not a better alternative. As it stands I think WASM is better for people already familiar with more backend style languages like C++, Java, Go, Rust and etc, especially if they don't like the modern JS syntax and ecosystem. Basically as a JS dev, I don't see a reason to use WASM until I have a specific use case where something needs to happen on client side really fast for example video encoding, decoding, ML type of work and etc. Basically things not possible before WASM. I see WASM as a nice complementary addon to the Web that is ruled by JavaScript. But as it stands it's not a replacement nor was it designed to be one. Of course this doesn't stop people to do whatever they want even when there are compromises but performance and latency are very important things in web, especially when you tie it to SEO and page rankings.
WASM for web aside, I find wasm usecase and especially WASi very interesting for embedded systems where you can code in whatever language you want using a specific interface and get a output that can basically run in any environment regardless of hardware, hardware architecture and etc. I definitely see a future where we just ship wasm binary packages to create a cross platform magic that could be used by any programing language. Example of this: th-cam.com/video/LMsDWEGYTHg/w-d-xo.html
That's not quite right, sorry for the confusion: Pure Webassembly computation (math, say) is much faster than javascript. The bottleneck is accessing web apis from webassembly, which requires you to go via a javascript bridge. This bottleneck causes javascript to be faster than webassembly *at DOM manipulations*. However, this slowdown is often mitigated by wasm's pure speed.
@@NoBoilerplate ok thank you for the clarification. I was also wondering if you actually had a video showing how or a repo with the code for the terminal emulator you created for Lost Terminal (an ingenious bit of podcast, btw)
Heroku's still a great option, though lacking the old free dev tier. You could try a sponsor of mine, Shuttle.rs, they specialise in hosting rust, and I liked them before being paid by them! XD
I realise things have probably moved on but at 1:30 you show a table of what languages support(ed in 2022) Wasm and mention Python is absent, then show a graph of Wasm use than includes Python..?
ERRATA
I was not clear that wasm is only slower than JS in DOM manipulation. If you write pure wasm and webgl, you can smoke JS.
small syntax error: at 5:55 some of the component trait's methods don't have semicolons after
@@w1keee Those may have default implementations that are not included in the video.
@@w1keee Thank you! That's part of the code that is omitted on the slide, it's not valid rust (super compressed code to try to fit it on one slide).
@@w1keee more specifically, they are trait methods with default implementations and are thus followed by code blocks rather than semicolons
@@raffimolero64 ok, thanks
You certainly have a way of making Rust sound like it came to us as a gift from a Kardashev II civilization.
I'm not saying Rust will make us immune to extinction....!
@@NoBoilerplate yet.
Lol nice comment
@@NoBoilerplate "it's a cookbook!"
W kardashev mention lessgoh
In my current personal project, I'm writing a backend and several clients all in Rust, including a frontend using Yew. There is one boon that WASM gives you that you didn't touch on. You can directly share libraries between your backend and frontend. No reimplementation. No bugs from translating between languages. You can ensure that the behavior of your data structures is identical between every piece of the project. Fix a bug once, and you're done!!
The message passing pattern showcased is also a fantastic way to handle client-server communication and syncing of shared state.
Brilliant! I'll make sure to mention this in the follow-up video, in a month!
Yeah this is really the biggest benefit of using one language for both backend and frontend 😄
I believe the web was designed in a flawed manner (client server). It should have been one right from the beginning or it should be reimagined by browsers of today.
@@aeonsleo2 certainly not everything that's currently done using the client-server model has much need to be done that way (with caveats I'll elide here), but... for some things, it strikes me as inherently necessary. Like, do you have suggestions on how one might write, say, an e-commerce site that doesn't use a client-server model in some manner? If so, how?
There's something about your videos that makes me so interested in programming in rust. Keep up the good work!
-It's the british accent B)-
hehe!
Thank you! Honestly I feel the same, so it must be the Rust XD
Man, your content is so minimal, pure & easy to understand.
I am addicted to your channel even though I don't write Rust.
You don't yet write Rust ;-)
The Book is where I started, keep watching!
doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/
@@NoBoilerplate I've had my eyes on Rust for a couple of years but haven't found any reason to try it yet, still waiting for that day to happen. (I am a Rails dev so I mostly develop within the web)
BUT there is an ongoing rewrite of Ruby called Artichoke, in … of course Rust.
@@mikopiko Ha! The whole world is oxidising! rocket.rs is the closest to Rails that I've seen, though it's more like Sinatra with strong community plugin support. Rails is wild isn't it! We use it at work here and there!
I completely agree! I use the game framework Macroquad for little games that I make, and it has support for WASM! No lag, no hassle, just "cargo build --release --target=wasm32-unknown-unknown"!
I'm learning Rust by building a 2D roguelike game based off a book by Herbert Wolverson called Hands-on Rust. 👍
its you again
@@tentaklaus9382 Awesome!
@@thecoweggs hello
macroquad is so amazing! i recently made a minesweeper game and putting it on my website was literally so easy
The rust ecosystem never ceases to amaze. I can see that in just years from now, rust will be able to do quite literally everything. A _new_ javascript if you will
I will.
It's faster than React today - it's ready!
@@NoBoilerplate it's also faster as compiled binaries. I ported a program I designed as a lightweight background program in c# to rust and the memory usage was cut in 7 and cpu usage went from 0.1 % to unmeasurable. Thanks to rusts high level feel it wasn't as painful as c/c++ even though I needed to use the raw windows window functions.
@mathgeniuszach with the difference of Rust not being as horrible as Javascript :D
@@NoBoilerplate You said js is faster than wasm. Is it really?
PSA: Remember that rendering to a canvas breaks the accessibility of the page. Screen readers won't read elements aloud, being able to copy-paste text gets lost, no auto reflow is possible with CSS, etc. 🙏👍
Agreed, I really love web accessibility (It's a huge thing where I work), but it's good to have the option to write webgl applications and games!
It would be nice if you could just tell the browser the access ability attributes of a screen region.
Lack of accessibility is currently a drawback, although my feeling is long-term screen-readers are going to be replaced by AI chatbots anyways. Copy-paste is an interesting problem, although there must be a way to hold text in a state that the cursor could then grab, depending on the framework used.
That is true, but it's also true for JS/Flash (afaik). I'm learning WASM to make web games, because I feel that they will have more reach.
> my feeling is long-term screen-readers are going to be replaced by AI chatbots anyway
I'm guessing you don't use a screen reader or have any close friends who need them
I bloody love your sponsors. Thats how you everyone should do them. They always have something to do with the video.
This is what's it's all about!
Me: Manipulates DOM directly with JS.
No_Boilerplate: No one manipulates DOM directly.
Me: 😐.
Oh you should try jQuery /s :-D
I mean... rust _can_ still manipulate the DOM directly sooo
Imagine wasting your time writing clean and performant code to interact with the DOM instead of using a heavy and cumbersome -framework- library like React.
I’ve done this. But I was in an environment where I literally was barred from using react or angular.
@@NoBoilerplate I'm currently trying to get permission from my Tech Lead to rip jQuery out of our project... xD
I’m finally getting to the point I grok the lifetime errors the compiler is complaining about at a glance, and can instantly think where I messed up and where I need to go fix. It used to be that algebraic data types were my gold standard to consider a modern language usable or not, but now I can’t imagine programming without a borrow checker.
Literally, Ive been working on this personal project (a distributed event framework) for months with type level programming, and at roughly 3500 lines of code before a minimum executable demo, it executed not just successfully but correctly too. Literally first try. I was in shock. I was fully expecting to debug for hours or days. I’m in love with this language.
I love that feeling!
the procedural macros are the most genius and mind blowing feature to ever exist in a programming language, rust basically solved the source generators problem in the most elegant way and went a step beyond
This is literally why I'm here. They've existed in lisp for longer than most of us have been alive, but it's AWESOME that rust took the best parts of lisp!
Tris makes me feel like I know everything CS related just by knowing rust 😂
Rust is my favorite language 🦀
HONESTLY this is how I feel. I'm learning so much about how stuff ACTUALLY works, by learning Rust!
Tried to explain it in this one th-cam.com/video/0rJ94rbdteE/w-d-xo.html
@@NoBoilerplate I totally agree! 🦀
Every time I watch your videos I fall in love with Rust all over again.
Honestly same
I'm learning React right now so I can get a job. If only I could use rust for this! Will definitely look into it more if I ever make my own personal projects.
hopefully in the coming years Rust frontend will be much more mainstream 🤞
React will be a great framework to get work! It's never a bad idea to learn more languages and techniques :-D
unfortunate that most companies hire React devs when Vue 3 is so much more dev friendly and maintainable and readable.
Brilliant philosophy. Im learning react + nextjs for my career, with remix as my personal choice. That way personal projects will be efficient but I'm still hirable
@@zuma206 More knowledge is always good!
Rust is so blazingly fast, I downloaded and installed it 5 times thinking something was wrong, literally micro seconds installation of the compiler. It was only after running rustc that I found out that the compiler installed already!
Quadratic looks awesome, was just today hearing from a friend that has to fight Excel and VB at work, where he is locked into Microsoft products. This looks like such a cool, modern alternative! I love the idea of bringing python and it's whole ecosystem into the mix.
Doesn't it look flash!
You present Rust in such a way that I feel like I want to learn it so much... It's just that I JUST got my first programming job a couple of weeks ago and I also have a couple of Java and JS projects still unfinished, and a freelance gig with Python. Yet the less time I have, the more drawn to Rust i become lol
Congratulations! Welcome to a really great industry :-D
Don't worry about it, you'll learn 10 new languages (if you've got the right attitude) during your career. 5 of which haven't been invented yet!
Rust's a great one to learn for now.
@@NoBoilerplate Thank you for the reply.
I was planning to build a multiplayer Android/ios, very simple card game in Java. I am now thinking of doing it in Rust. Would it be too hard, in your opinion? Or should I start somewhere else?
@@varsketisLT I think you'll have a much more INTERESTING life if you write it in Rust! The game engine we like around these parts is bevyengine.org
Come chat to us in #newbie-advice on my discord server, links on noboilerplate.org!
@@NoBoilerplate Thank you so much, will do!
Thank you for this video! I started working with Rust Wasm today and got a basic webserver and website running that changes what's displayed based on the web parameters. Very happy with how it turned out - especially that no JS was required.
Fantastic!
I’m obsessed with your channel. I watch all your videos on the day of release. Please keep it up!
Wow, thank you!
i'm excited to try yew out - i've been doing React for work for years, and i've done a bit of by-hand rust-wasm here and there, plus a fair bit of rust+react. this feels like the next logical step in basically every way
Terrific! Yes I'm excited by Yew now!
Your videos inspired me to learn Rust and I'm so glad I did! I've already converted several of my personal projects.
Whenever someone asks me for info about Rust I always point them to your videos.
Fantastic! I'm on a mission to show the world how great this language is!
Great video as always :)
I love yew. As always, don't underestimate the learning curve (as with everything rust) - you need to spend some time with the current webassembly stack in rust to really get going. Once you have that, you pick up speed and that's the point where it gets really great.
For example we had to process a big excel file and send some parts to the server.. well, guess what: Just use an excel reader crate - process everything client side and send a payload of a few kb instead of 20mb. You can even have shared types in your front and backend and send the payloads back and fourth in the perfect format - apply some validators there and you have input validation everywhere!
Just some input to underline the things you can have for free :)
That's fantastic!
Fantastic video, as always! I'd also like to congratulate you on your choice of sponsors. This is the first time I've seen sponsorships in videos that really interest me and that I'm going to look into, keep it up!
Really nice video, clear and fast-moving
Thank you very much, I have 9 other Rust videos in the same fast format, I'd love to know what you think!
The biggest downside is still that Wasm can't interact with the DOM of a website directly and relies on JavaScript. Even if you write everything in Rust to interact with the DOM, Wasm translates it into JS, which then interacts with the DOM. This eventually results in a bottleneck. The guys over at Wasm are saying they're working on a way around this. I'm sure once they have a solution, browsers will need to add support for that. Once this is solved, that's when things will get interesting. Imagine websites running on Rust/Wasm with direct access to the DOM api without the need for JavaScript.
Are you certain of this fact? Yew is faster than react in dom manipulation benchmarks.
@@NoBoilerplate Yes. React is not a particularly fast framework. Svelte, Vue, and Preact are all faster than Yew according to the js framework benchmark. Using WASM for DOM manipulation can't be as fast as vanilla js, as of rn.
@@zomakaja Right, that makes sense. Seems like wasm dom manipulation is fast enough though, if it's faster than react - how many websites are powered by react!
At 0:25 you mentioned that AWS supports Rust. That is sort of true, but not quite. Everywhere that the AWS Rust SDK is mentioned, they state that the SDK is a preview and that it should not be used in production. Rusoto is the alternative
Sure, and gmail was beta for two decades ;-)
Rusoto is in maintenance mode, since the aws sdk dropped, it's great!
I had so much hope for this being a video about perseus. Even though perseus is still in very early development, it absolutely crushes nextjs with SSR *and* SSG support. It also is a backend and frontend in one framework.
Their own website looks super good and only after like 2 seconds you are like "wow did it just instantly load"?
I highly recommend checking it out, even if it is just for fun and giggles.
Wow, I just checked it out! That is SUPER impressive. I'll watch Perseus with great interest, thank you!
@@NoBoilerplate You are welcome:) Happy to share.
Ever considered making a podcast or short video every month / 2 weeks, about new things in the rust ecosystem. Bit like the code report from Fireship but for Rust.
There is a lot of new stuff happening in the Rust ecosystem and I think a lot of Rusteans would love to to get to know the new stuff, but sometimes are overwhelmed with all new things. Especially deciding if it is quality or garbage with a cool name.
@@job4753 Great idea! But I think I'll leave that to the professionals. My videos are featured in the various weekly roundup posts, newsletters and threads round about.
I prefer to produce high impact, high value videos. I saw there was a lack of highly-produced introductory content in the Rust community (Though Fireship is an exception), and I want to make sure as many people get excited about this world-changing language as possible.
Once they're listening/reading the weekly roundups, the work is done, and the language sells itself 🙂
@@NoBoilerplate fully understand that:))
1:10 True, but why should javascript even be ported to wasm when it runs directly on browsers anyway?
Looks interesting. How would the styling side of things work? I guess it would be an external stylesheet with classNames though.
Also if it had a way to hot reload the way most front end frameworks/libraries do it could be a winner!
Yew hot reloads without a page load. I nearly fell of my chair when it did it first!
At 7:39, are you inserting rust code right into the button's onclick attribute? I thought you could only put JS in there.
amazing, right? Yew is generating some js plumbing code for you! Try the yew.rs tutorial!
I think Swift and Nim would be really nice languages for WASM too, for people who don’t want to/have issues with learning the borrow checker. Both of them are getting closer and closer to making their GC/RC less often used. Swift is a lovely language, it kind of sucks it’s so heavily intertwined with the apple ecosystem.
I also wish that, but we must play the hand we are dealt!
Rust isn't my favourite language because it's perfect, it's my favourite language because it's practical and we can build a team and get good work done NOW!
Doesn’t Swift now have a borrow checker?
@@morkallearns781 Not yet I don’t think? inout arguments block you from passing both an immutable and mutable “reference” to a value, but no ownership (yet)
Currently learning rust as a hobby. This gets me more excited for what I can do with it😄
IKR!
The thing with Yew that really bothers me, is that the styling is still painful. Well, was painful, idk if today we have solid solutions. But once we’re getting something solid like CSS Modules or Styled components, I’m JUMPING in it!
Take your pick and jump in! crates.io/crates/yew-style-in-rs
The best part about this series is that once each video is finished, a new JS framework is released queuing up content for the next video
Ugh, you're not even exaggerating that much XD
YES! Finally the video I was waiting for from you :)
Part 2 in a month!
You mentioned that we don't usually manipulate the DOM directly using Rust or JS? Why not? I recently made a web application to display content from a site, and I used DOM manipulation to add labels with extra data. I did what you showed at 2:43 where I created elements to append to another element, which I then appended to the page.
I don't think I said that - I mean that most of your application logic is plumbing, not UI code.
JS can access the DOM directly, through the window.document api. WASM applications have to call js to then call window.document, so there's a layer of indirection.
Now, just imagine: Yew + Tauri. The perfect duo for cross platform desktop apps with the flexibility of WEB technologies and power/safety of Rust.
Damn I want that now... Somebody knows Web-Rust Tauri bindgen tools? That's literally the last piece in the puzzle for seamless Rust-only desktop development.
I don't know, whether this fits what you are looking for, but the Tauri documentation does state, that one can build a Yew project with Tauri.
the dream!
Tauri has the `create-tauri-app` cli tool, which includes a template for Yew 🙂
@@TheNewJavaman omg yesssss
I've been learning Rust for a couple of weeks now and although it hasn't been without it's headaches, those headaches have always been because of additional complexity that other languages keep hidden.
A great example I ran into a couple of hours ago was when I tried to convert a char into uppercase. I was expecting to get a character out the other end, but I ended up with a completely different type which I couldn't convert.
It turns out that converting certain characters to uppercase can result in more than one character being produced - an edge case that I never would have considered had I been writing in any other language.
Over the years, there have been many crashes on operating systems like Android and iOS due to them missing edge cases of Unicode such as the one above. I can't help but wonder how many of them could have been avoided if the operating systems were programmed using Rust's spectacular error checking.
Hah, thats a cool. My main issue in getting into Rust tends to be to find good up-to-date tutorials. I only find very simple tutorials. And then keep getting stuck trying to write my own stuff.
But trying to find an answer to my issues tends to find tons of outdated answers because Rust changed so much over time
@@MaakaSakuranbo yeah I'm really lucky in that I'm taking a university course on it so there's a whole team of dedicated teachers making the process as smooth running as possible.
@@miguelguthridge If you were asking about the uppercase char thing on Stackoverflow, I just saw your question. And if that wasn't you, a practically identical question is there.... fun and eye-opening discussion in comments and answers.
@@peter9477 it wasn't me, but I'm pretty sure I encountered a similar question while figuring out what was wrong.
The way you handle state and mutations on Yew feels almost identical to the Elm Architecture, and I'm all in for it
Huge fan of elm - it's all functional programming sensible defaults!
I think Yew was heavily influenced by Elm, which is why they chose Yew for a name.
@@Tsudico omg
Thank you for the content, and I can tell it's going to be great even before I watch it.
You're too kind!
The biggest issue with react is implementation details bleeding into the abstraction. having to constantly duplicate objects with {...something, prop:"new value"} to set a new state because things are immutable being a key example. When you have an account balance and do +10 no one envisions that a brand new account is created with a value 10 more. The yew way of updates reminds me of a required useReducer hook as the only way to update.
This gets me excited to code some more Rust 😍! Great video, subbed
I'm excited for you! It's very hard, you'll have to watch more of my videos to get excited, but start with the book doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/
@1:51 - I'd say that graph/chart alone sells Rust - want to do WA, likely gonna want rust.
Right! check the sourcecode for the links for more info
smh, imagine not deciding on using the boilerplate driven language designed for writing verbose, object oriented, instant legacy code
Yew is a fantastic library. I've used if for multiple projects and thoroughly enjoy it.
Special request: Can you do a video on rust use cases (what you can do with rust) and also what you should actually use it for and not use it for. Cause I hear people say "Rust shouldn't be used for web dev (backend ofc) "
Love the channel btw thank you
Thank you so much! I think you can and should use Rust for anything! My video on this is here th-cam.com/video/4dvf6kM70qM/w-d-xo.html
These videos and the level of content they maintain (more importantly) absolutely wonderful 🎉 Every time I think “how’s he going to make this interesting?” And yet you absolutely floor me. Please, just teach a class or something already. 🤦♂️ 💕
Thank you so much - maybe I will!
It seems like the only thing holding back Rust right now is time. Time for people to realize its potential, time for people to get used to the slightly different paradigms that it uses, and time for the ecosystem to develop and the language to stabilize a little.
Absolutely. I am trying to push the needle slightly in the right direction with my Rust series!
Ooh, I'd heard of Yew, but now I want to play with it... thanks for turning my attention in that direction.
Minor complaint: it would have been nice to show how to get this to actually load up. I've got that working for a simpler wasm thing, and I'm sure I'll figure it out, just... something to consider for future videos.
You do an excellent job in selling this technology, and I'm sold.
Thank you, but it's the tech that sells itself, honestly! The reason I'm over here making these videos is that I NEED more people to know that a pleasant programming life is possible :-)
Have you tried much Rust yet? Make sure you've watched this intro video of mine th-cam.com/video/CJtvnepMVAU/w-d-xo.html
@@NoBoilerplate Thank you for sharing. Rust is on my scope for a while now. As of now I have to maintain a lot of hybrid web/apps (native), so things like ReactNative with Expo and Flutter. I'm already keen to try Dioxus, despite Rust still treating mobile as 2nd Tier target. I soon have to make a good decision and I couldn't thank you more for bringing this on my radar, once again.
@@_modiX I hear good things about Dioxus - do try out yew.rs and tauri.app too!
I don't understand, you said that wasm is slower than JavaScript, in what way is this true? Wasm is much faster for many applications isn't it. Where is it slower? Interfacing with the DOM?
Yes, that's it - JS is still faster at DOM manipulation - FOR NOW!
@@NoBoilerplate I don't understand why wasm can't (and people think it shouldn't) directly interface with the DOM. To me it makes perfect sense that we make JavaScript optional.
@@minerscale I couldn't agree more. Removing Javascript from web programming is an important step to allow the industry to heal from the damage XD
Yew.rs is faster than react, and people say react is fast enough.
@@NoBoilerplate I like that the pendulum is finally swinging back to developing software 'the right way' with the proliferation of rust and wasm slowly making its way on the scene. Throwing away orders of magnitude of performance so your app can actually be a browser still seems popular though hahahaha.
@@minerscale I'm very excited about this trend too - we're getting back into taking things seriously in software!
Yes, it's not as fast yet as it could be, certainly for DOM manipulation, but it's fast enough - and every browser release gets huge optimisations for wasm, so it's fast enough today, and very fast tomorrow!
Rust aside, you're videos are therapeutic
Thank you! You might find my gentle scifi podcast even MORE so! I'd love to know what you think th-cam.com/video/p3bDE9kszMc/w-d-xo.html
This is a blessing. I am fed up with npm dependency issues and runtime errors which should have been handled in compile time had there been a compiler in PHP or Python
Wow this is amazing 😍
Thank you for sharing!!
Hi, thanks for another video! Where did you get the statistic that Rust the cheapest language for lambda functions? Seems like a powerful argument to use in a classic "ehh guys, maybe we should start using Rust?" company discussion :)
Lambda is charged on run time and memory usage. Rust is as fast as C, and with a tiny runtime overhead. THEREFORE: Cheap on lambda!
My next video, writing now, actually goes in to detail.
I dread talking about it, because I'll have to talk about benchmarks - always an area of contention!
@@NoBoilerplate Awesome, looking forward to it! Yeah, I can imagine, folks in general can be quite 'particular' in language discussions :)
Not related to wasm in general but tauri + rust is a great tool to build things specifically if you want to create something which can work with system level features like running a custom-built ml model and pipeline but have a fast to prototype and great UI using web frameworks (although its slow but it gets the job done)
0:28 Can you deploy Rust applications on Mac OS and Linux as well?
Yes, but you will have to build binaries for any platform you want. This can be automated, and most projects do so.
There is first-class support across all common platforms, including OSX, Windows, and (my primary OS) Linux.
The comprehensive page where you can see all compiler targets (including android and ARM!) is here doc.rust-lang.org/beta/rustc/platform-support.html
Dioxus is another option which is less verbose than yew and is faster than Svelte once loaded, which is a higher bar to beat than being faster than react.
Yeah, I've become much more interested in Dioxus since making this video, very impressive!
What does it mean anymore to be a "front-end", "back-end", or "full-stack" developer at this point?
Absolutely, very arbitrary tbh
I’m trying to get into using rust for web developement, my expirience with web developement as a whole is limited to AWS, goHugo, and an understanding of html and css. Would you say that learning yew as a front end and Axum would be a smart step foreward?
Yew - absolutely!
Backend, I'd try rocket.rs first. I love Poem, too.
4:25 can you clarify this? I was not under the impression that JS is faster than WA ... Is this a fact?
It's specifically in DOM manipulations that JS is faster, because in current implamentations WASM has to go *VIA* JS to touch the DOM. This is not the case with webgl or pure computation.
@@NoBoilerplate Ah ok, that makes sense
At the end where you are talking about where rust runs probably would be wise to mention for valid llvm targets. Until the gcc frontend is done there are still a lot of places rust won't run like a lot of embedded environments
Oh really, I wasn't aware. There's a bunch of embedded targets it DOES run on though, right? What would gcc get us?
@@NoBoilerplate There are some that LLVM runs on yeah, like I believe Pi's. Part of the whole "get Rust into the Rust Kernel" debate was because of the limits in what platforms LLVM allowed. But thanks to them agreeing to allow it for drivers (which clearly not every environment needs drivers) the lack of what targets LLVM allows doesn't matter so much.
Now mind you some specialized hardware doesn't even get compiled to from GCC, in cases where the hardware vendor actually supplies their own compiler tool chain. That's an area where we may need to see the rust specification that is in the works come through before Rust can make inroads there.
You always nail the sponsors.
Thank you!
Looks great, thanks for sharing! A little disagreement though, macros offer poor visibility in general regarding errors at compilation, and average support in IDEs because it's complex for them to interpret (for ex. with refactorization and type inference).
As a web developer with 8 years of experience, using react since the beginning, recently vue, I really really want this. But at the same time, I'm fairly confident that the industry won't be able to make the switch, not in the next 10 years at least.
The revolution could start with you!
Fyi I just looked up the sponsor, quadratic, and it seems like their product is written in typescript, not rust.
Yeah, they told me that the rewrite is Rust based, which is terrific!
@@NoBoilerplate Exactly!
No Boilerplate: The best Rust shill on youtube.
Thank you!
I'd love it if Yew could render CSS in the same way it renders HTML!
BAM thanks for making me look this up, this is great!
crates.io/crates/yew-style-in-rs
@@NoBoilerplate Oh sweet Lord, it's scoped as well. I may have to ditch Vue.
@@sosignon let me know how it goes! (are you on the discord?)
@@NoBoilerplate Ha, I don't know when I'll next get a chance, but yes of course. Not in the Discord yet, will hop on.
But what about the WASM binary size? I remember that there's an article on some wiki about how to reduce it (compiler optimizations etc), but it still adds quite a bit, for example an optimized WASM file for a web project I'm doing (without any clearly "special" dependencies) is ~2MB..
Interesting problem. Are you compiling in release mode?
You know JS congratulation you are a backend developer. :). Just Keding great video bro. I am seriously considering Rust now.
Ha! Yes good point, node is really great!
Have you seen my other videos? Here's the playlist, get excited! th-cam.com/video/CJtvnepMVAU/w-d-xo.html
When I watch your videos I feel like I'm being roped into a sect and it looks so good!
The cargo cult! 😄
@@TheAndrejP a very funny coincidence en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
I do know what you meant though hahaha!
new channel name right there tbh
please make more examples with multi-threading/async on WASM
My current Rust project is the peak of Rust full-stack development:
Compiler for the esolang? Rust with Pest for lexing/parsing and Inkwell for compilation to LLVM IR.
Website frontend for the esolang? Rust with Yew.
Website backend with public compilation API (also used by the frontend)? Rust with Actix and possibly Diesel.
Hotel? Trivago.
I absolutely love this language and its ecosystem
Fantastic!
One thing I haven't gotten my head around yet with Rayon is blocking the underlying Rayon worker with a channel. With Tokio, async channels allow for the future to pause while the worker executes other tasks while Rayon uses std::sync::mpsc::channel which will block the entire thread if you .recv() on it.
Can you use Tokio with wasm?
Did you try Dioxus? It is like yew but closer to react ☺️
Looks nice! Popularity is important, however:
Yew has 10x the number of recent downloads on crates.io. I will follow Dioxus's progress with great interest, thank you!
I'd _really_ love to write an app using egui and have the same codebase for both web and native, but at least from my testing the performance isn't quite there yet. Also the accessibility issues. Definitely going to use yew in the future, though.
Yes, I think that if I were in your position, I'd use Tauri and Yew. Much more mature, html is *the* interface!
wake up babe new no boilerplate video just dropped
This and the Good Rust Web Stack video have inspired me to go full-stack Rust! I'm sure you have a lot on your plate, but I was curious if a Rust WebGL demo video is still in the works?
I didn't go too crazy with it, but I did put out part 2! th-cam.com/video/y10jJX35shE/w-d-xo.html
And if you'd like my recommendations on how to learn rust further, here's my playlist:
th-cam.com/video/2hXNd6x9sZs/w-d-xo.html
I'm trying to use rust to write files. I have various problems with creating text and files. I would love a video explaining howto work with text (or strings) I find it quite cumbersome in rust. Do you have a video og strings and io?
Come and chat to us on the Discord - ask your question in #newbie-advice!
I want to believe.
Can it be the first lang to transcend all abstraction layers? Will rocket truly bewebyet? Can Yew carve out enough share from React to make a small town to live in?
Rust is the #19th most popular language in the world :-D
redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/03/28/language-rankings-1-22/
@@NoBoilerplate wow, behind Objective-C! That's terrible!
@@TheAndrejP Think of how many Objective-C projects are out there, for years the only language you could write ios apps in XD
When targeting WASM, C# is compiled ahead of time. There is no JIT, no GC.
Thank you for the information.
Have you seen what else Rust can do? I tried to cover many topics here: th-cam.com/video/0rJ94rbdteE/w-d-xo.html
How about a video on using Yew for an app with both web and native targets?
That's exciting, good idea!
Now with the qwik framework and js to html5 compiling, is pure html faster than wasm?
Tell me more!
@@NoBoilerplate Fireship has a video on it, it also loads the js lazily, maybe the next framework discovers how to optimally choose what to lazy-load
Awh yeah, another fast, technical video!
That's right!
First of all, hi everyone.
What is the library used at 2:26 that looks like vanilla js?
That's native Rust webassembly, exposed by wasm-bindgen, we never code using that plumbing, just as we never code javascript like the slide after demos. Try leptos.dev !
@@NoBoilerplate thank you!
Nice video, but the blue progress bar is kind of superfluous on TH-cam, where we already have a red progress bar.
I put it there for people in fullscreen - on desktop or mobile, to see where along in the video it is - as the red progress bar disappears!
So...can I compile my gtk-rs program to web assembly? :)
If the gtk library has been ported, yes! But you might find a pure rust UI library better to write in, as that can be compiled to wasm with no extra work. Take a look at EGUI!
Quick question, is it possible to create Desktop Environment, like Gnome, KDE for linux, using WASM?
in-browser? Very possibly! But you'd have a lot of work to do there!
Your videos are are very interesting an motivating. I would like to learn by creating a desktop application. But most GUI frameworks I could find until now are either for Web, are in an experimental state or not native in rust. Do you have maybe a recommendation for a rust native cross-platform (windows/linux) desktop application GUI framework/crate. It does not have to be beginner friendly. I rather looking to learn real world fundamentals. Thanks for the inspiring videos.
My pleasure! Yes, though there are GTK and QT bindings, I wouldn't go for them just yet.
Try EGUI with eframe, or Tauri with Yew.rs.
Do ask in #newbie-advice on my discord server, there's loads of nice people to help out!
there was too much jargon on the webgl alledged issue, which i could not understand, can someone explain?
I haven't looked into WASM in terms of Dom manipulation for a while but last time I checked it had to ship Javascript code to manipulate Dom which is basically made it a lot slower than vanilla Javascript.
You mention React as a point of comparison but I can list you a sea of frameworks that are 10x and more times faster than react. Especially when things like Svelte And SolidJS exist.
I still think WASM needs more work on the browser side before it can be used fully without depending on JS.
Currently best use case for WASM is heavy duty apps and complex logic that needs to run in the browser that doesn't manipulate Dom elements.
I agree that wasm is terrific for number crunching, but I don't quite agree with your conclusion that we shouldn't use it for DOM manipulation.
Most people don't care about benchmarks, only paying attention if things are too slow, and that doesn't happen for most people, right? How else do we explain React's popularity?
@@NoBoilerplate I guess my point is that for current web developers, WASM is just a nice option when you might complex and performant logic. But it's definitely not a better alternative.
As it stands I think WASM is better for people already familiar with more backend style languages like C++, Java, Go, Rust and etc, especially if they don't like the modern JS syntax and ecosystem.
Basically as a JS dev, I don't see a reason to use WASM until I have a specific use case where something needs to happen on client side really fast for example video encoding, decoding, ML type of work and etc. Basically things not possible before WASM.
I see WASM as a nice complementary addon to the Web that is ruled by JavaScript. But as it stands it's not a replacement nor was it designed to be one.
Of course this doesn't stop people to do whatever they want even when there are compromises but performance and latency are very important things in web, especially when you tie it to SEO and page rankings.
WASM for web aside, I find wasm usecase and especially WASi very interesting for embedded systems where you can code in whatever language you want using a specific interface and get a output that can basically run in any environment regardless of hardware, hardware architecture and etc.
I definitely see a future where we just ship wasm binary packages to create a cross platform magic that could be used by any programing language.
Example of this: th-cam.com/video/LMsDWEGYTHg/w-d-xo.html
@@hazreh Yes that's a very exciting idea - java for embedded, with low level control, maybe!
Oh how do you deal with browser discrepancies in rust now!
They're better than they've ever been these days, certainly based on my normal html experience!
Very cool video! Thank you for sharing
Thanks for watching!
I'm confused by the statement web assembly is slower than JavaScript but yew is faster than react.
That's not quite right, sorry for the confusion:
Pure Webassembly computation (math, say) is much faster than javascript.
The bottleneck is accessing web apis from webassembly, which requires you to go via a javascript bridge. This bottleneck causes javascript to be faster than webassembly *at DOM manipulations*.
However, this slowdown is often mitigated by wasm's pure speed.
@@NoBoilerplate ok thank you for the clarification. I was also wondering if you actually had a video showing how or a repo with the code for the terminal emulator you created for Lost Terminal (an ingenious bit of podcast, btw)
Am I going to need NoRust and NoGo to complement NoScript?
I think probably nowasm would do it all! Maybe noscript already does this?
Can it be directly converted to native apps? Like in Maui for C# Blazor
There are GUI libraries that target both native AND wasm, my favourite is EGUI - build win/mac/linux binaries, or wasm!
Where can I host my rust(yew) websites? Cpanel has only javascript(nodejs), python and php.
Heroku's still a great option, though lacking the old free dev tier. You could try a sponsor of mine, Shuttle.rs, they specialise in hosting rust, and I liked them before being paid by them! XD
amazing video as always 🧡
Thank you!
I realise things have probably moved on but at 1:30 you show a table of what languages support(ed in 2022) Wasm and mention Python is absent, then show a graph of Wasm use than includes Python..?
Lambdas don't have native support for Rust yet though, do they?
Sure do, for years! Ever since the binary-only lambdas. You can run what you like, as long as it's a single musl binary!