As a Jamaican, born, raised and living in Jamaica... I appreciated his accent. He did good. Obviously he doesn't sound authentically Jamaican because he's not, the biggest thing I sentence structure isn't how we would speak naturally but I get that the international audience also needs to understand. And we don't use the word irie in casual conversation. But I liked it.
Yes, I feel like you may be right, but I really have a couple of different problems with this analyses: 1) Joe Black is also foreign to English, he is other worldly and his syntax isn't always the most normal through the movie, it works to distinguish him from the humans 2) The creator seems gleeful in her criticism, dare I say disparaging? 3) "caricature" pronounced with the accent on the second syllable is something I have never heard before. Unique, interesting 4) My favorite expression from a Jamaican was : "Chingauo" which is Spanish "chingada" learned from native Vietnamese speakers. She used it to show excitement at a fireworks display. Language is fun sometimes.
As a non Jamaican, I can't speak to the accuracy of his dialect or accent, but as a anglo I can tell you that Joe Black very much wasn't 'all there' in english either. I think his character's point is that no matter what language he's speaking, he's 'Other'. He's wrong in some way. And that's because he's the literal Angel of Death. He's this entity wearing a human, so no matter what language he speaks, he's alien.
I have to agree with a commenter on another video "He was taught by Lois Kelly-Miller who was the Jamaican lady in the wheelchair. He also had an additional language instructor. Lois Kelly Miller was pleased with his Patois so I don't know why people are harping on it."
I realize it probably wasn't real authentic to a Jamaican, but it was passable to me. I thought it was one of the most poignant, fascinating scenes in the movie. Here was Death, the Grim Reaper, and this Jamaican lady immediately recognized him for who he was. He knew it, but still patiently tried to ease her fear and anxiety, and lovingly helped her pass when it was time. I truly understand how a native speaker might cringe at the dialog, but I think the scenes' messages were what was important.
Well you gotta keep in mind, Brad Pitts character is playing Death, So while yes Death should know the language cause well its Death and its been around since the dawn of time BUT its Death so hes or its going to say things with a bit more and this might not be the best word but "mystical" or prolonged way cause as death its talking to a being it doesnt see as its equal, lesser or greater. So imo its like it (Brad) was slowing or prolonging words to be easier on Lois Kelly-Millers character cause well its a human being that realizes shes in the presence of like the actual Death. But thats just my take on it lol
@@eightfold189 That's a great point! His English speech wasn't exactly normal, either. For example, if a Finnish actor was playing an average American guy and he sounded like Brad Pitt in this movie, I'd have criticisms too. Joe is an angel trying to act human, but he's still an alien being so he misses the mark a lot.
TRUST ME!!!! When "Hollywood" tries to do any American dialect---whether Midwestern, New England, or whatever----they are ALL characitures and badly done!!!!!! Even though they are done by Americans doing other Americans from regions other than their own, they sound un-authentic. Particularly when anyone NOT from the South TRIES to do any kind of Southern accent. It is always way too over-the-top.
No love the message is not more important than the language they are trying to give us through. You know why? Because there's an entire culture of people at least 90% looking like....what the hell was that and did not connect to that scene the way others from other cultures might have Because the language was unique to them. We did not connect to that scene because it was our language and was not executed well, it wasnt bad but not acceptable because with all their money they could have gotten an actual jamaican to coach him while learning his lines for him to say it better, but no they didn't care and was happy with the caricature of the jamaican language. Still love Brad bit tho😊
@@KimoneWatson I totally understand your viewpoint, as I'm a stickler for authenticity/details. I suppose what I was trying to say was that since I (and probably many others) don't know the nuances of that dialect like a Jamaican would, it was convincing enough for me. I "got" that he was talking with a dying Jamaican lady, and therefore the essence of the scene was more important to me, as "ignorance is bliss" and I didn't know it was not accurate Jamaican speak. I understand, though, because I get frustrated with westerns and action movies sometimes because I know a bit about that stuff, and wish they would put a little more effort into details!
I love the fact that the gal in the wheelchair, being the amazing actress that she is... IS actually the one that taught Brad Pitt how to enunciate his accent
I think what you might be missing at, is that the old jamaican lady told him what to say and how to say it, and since she was like 80+ at a time and not living in Jamaica already, she might have showed him some "dated" way of speaking. Languages develop and evolve, if you to listen to casual conversation from 100 years ago, then some elements might also sound weird to you.
@@VictorLugosi ok, what does that have to do with Brad Pitt doing a terrible accent and the old lady not wanting to be alone with him? Sorry if I sounded rude, when I asked that, but I’m legitimately confused about why that was relevant.
@@VictorLugosi They weren't "Indian." They were natives. These native people had two names which historians usually go by: Arawak and Taíno. If you're gonna be a pedant with a strawman, then please, at the very least, just get your facts straight.
I think the “mistakes” in the pronunciation aren’t due to a lack of linguistics expertise, but rather slight changes to some words to make them more understandable to the general audience. Otherwise, it would be very hard for the average non-Jamaican speaker to follow the dialogue
I mean they could have had subtitles I guess. Other than that I cant speak to the accuracy since I have absolutely no idea about the correct pronounciation/grammar so I defer to the experts😂 What I did like is the concept itself. Of Death or the Reaper speaking your language/dialect. I think its criminally underused. In general the idea of a kind reaper is just so underused! I would love more movies and shows that portray death as sad, yes, but not an evil thing.
Perhaps, but the actual Jamaican lady already made an adjustment in her accent for that. Brad's accent was good though but it was just a little off in terms of cadence and Pronunciation which is typical of North Americans per se. Very hard to describe because the distinction is so subtle. The fact that his English is also loopy means the screenwriting corrected for these scenes and seems to balance out the rest of the movie nicely
That's not it. You can speak clearly for non-Jamaican English speakers to understand you and still sound authentically Jamaican. Lois Kelly Miller did it, an actor who dated the character Kimberly Reese on the last(?) season of A Different World did it - his Jamaican English was clear as a bell, and you could tell he was Jamaican or his background was Jamaican.
Something I noticed about Jamaica during my first trip to the island as a “My Fair Lady” obsessed teenager was that there isn’t one static accent that everyone has. You listen to the radio (at least in 2003) and you’d hear a crisp British accent with only wisps of Jamaican in the corners, you’d speak to a doctor in a rich neighborhood and he’d have what sounded closer to what I had expected Jamaican to sound like as an American but still different like guava jelly on a pb&j, then you wind your way up into the bush and people are speaking with an English so thick it rivals the humidity. I was fascinated. I think something that’s really important to remember when talking about this is how much socioeconomics and geography factor into this discussion. It’s a tiny island, but it’s as diverse as anything I’ve found in my home state of New York. Another thing that affects this specific example is how filmmaking works (yeah, I’ve spent a collective few months in Jamaica and also went to film school in California, I felt compelled to post a comment). You have the original script-writer who may or may not know anything about what they’re writing about who comes up with the original dialogue for the film. Maybe they chose Jamaican because there was a Miss Cleo ad they heard earlier and they wrote it with Sebastian the crab’s voice. A director gets ahold of this and takes it to an actor and maybe lets them play around with the words that are written, maybe not. I suspect that in this case, Martin Brest and Brad Pitt probably really did want to make this authentic and asked Lois Kelly-Miller to help. Or she took one look at the script, laughed really hard, and helped the poor clueless white boy out. However, the actor doesn’t have final say, and neither does the director really. On the day of shooting you have a person called the Script Supervisor who has to make sure everything on the script is shot exactly as written on the paper at least once, and then that person has to take notes and document everything that was changed and which take changed what. Shooting just one of these two scenes might have taken an entire eight hour day, and if they pushed it and shot both scenes it definitely did. Brad had (worst case scenario, no accent coach) 8 hours to learn from Lois and give his best shot at this incredibly nuanced foreign language while cameras are rolling picking up every attempt along the way. The script sup. makes a note about which take is the best one, but then hands those notes off to the next person - an editor. In addition to choosing how the words sound the editor is also looking at how the actors performed each take and everything else that’s going on in the frame. Maybe they have one take where Brad Pitt absolutely nailed the accent, but he moved his arm weird and his jacket rucked up a little and that looked awkward so they went with the take right before he nailed it because the editor couldn’t tell the difference and they prioritized the jacked arm thing. Finally this all goes to a (or more likely a few) producers who are trying to see the film from the point of view of the average (read: dumbest) audience member. If something doesn’t make sense to them or they don’t like it, then the editor has to change it. If they want to have an over-annunciated “Aaaiiiiiiirrrreeeeeee” because they think it’s more “Jamaican” then that’s what we get. Tl;dr: There probably is a theoretical version of these scenes were Brad Pitt absolutely nailed every aspect of the accent (he’s really quite good at most of it, as was pointed out in the video). Then the probably clueless American script sup. director, editor, and producers made changes and we’re lucky to have what we’ve got.
I asked a Jamaican coworker of mine about these scenes and she said one or two of the colloquialisms or phrases he used sounded more Trinidadian than Jamaican
A point that could be made is that Death just heard her accent and decided to try mimic it, since he was basically doing this with every aspect of himself learning from people and everything around him
So, for us who are not Jamaican, we understood he was speaking a different language and didn't care. For maybe 2 million Jamaicans ( not the target audience ), you tell us.. Great movie.
You can deny the "perfection" of the delivery of Pitt's Patois speech, BUT, you CANNOT deny the emotional impact of the conversation between Pitt and the Jamaican lady. These were the most impactful in the movie. I've watched them many, many times and it still hits me in the heart every time.
The beauty of this scene is that death is universal and knows us all no matter where we're from. Also showed that death can be a mercy when someone is in pain. In the end when he said soon it was almost loving.
Its the same way with Hollywood film when they try to sound African like Black Panther, Coming to America etc The so called African accent they protray sounds awful to the ears of an African person. But they don't care to get it right. ... As long as the Americans don't notice, they are fine
It's kinda frustrating how much hate he gets for it. It was literally like 20 seconds of a 2 hour movie. I could understand if it was the entire film. Also, nobody @ me 😂. I was born and raised in Kingston which wasn't always great because I'm Irish and my parents are white.
I wonder if an English actor for instance has ever done a Southern accent in a movie and really messed it up? I guess the problem with that is there would be plenty of Americans to make sure the vocabulary and pronunciation were correct. But if it was a British production, who knows? Benny Hill did some bad southern accents just to be funny.
@@craftsandstuff3349 plenty of people ragging on Emma Watson's American English in Perks of Being a Wallflower, and Tom Holland and Benedict Cumberbatch's in their MCU appearances. Learning another language is hard, but learning another accent, even if only enough for a movie role, is arguably much more difficult.
What minority did he play? What I miss? He played a helluva role in snatch...but damn sure looked like a white man/Caucasian whatever you wanna call him to me
@@thurmondcaldwell5482 'pikeys' or irish travellers are an ethnic minority in ireland and the UK. Still white but ethnically and culterally different from the majority.
I’m glad I can just absorb the beautiful feeling from this impactful scene(s) and not feel distracted by his accent not being perfect. I’m from north east Texas and if I did a video every time about how they got the southern accent wrong in a movie, I’d never have time to sleep!
I am a real linguist. And, while Brad Pitt's crack at the Jamaican accent may not have been perfect, it was close enough to get the job done. And this YaadPikni says why, at one point in her piece. The actress playing the mother is (or was, because I believe she may be dead now) a very famous Jamaican actress. And she was helping Brad get this right. She had just as much of stake in that as he did. So, I'd say its close enough. And we can give them a break because of the wonderful strains of Thomas Newman's (Uncle of Randy Newman) music, both here and through the entire movie.
Im not Jamaican but personally i don't see any problem with it because he's not trying to be Jamaican in the movie he's just trying to talk with a Jamaican accent Probably to help ease the worry of a sick old lady. All he claimed is that he's spent some time in the islands.
I’m watching meet Joe black right now n I actually missed this scene so came onto TH-cam to watch it. I don’t really care if his pronunciation is off, the scenes with the Jamaican lady are my favourites xxx
Nice breakdown. Frankly it sounded fine to me with little exposure to Jamaican language which I suppose is the point. I'm Scottish so I've learnt a long time ago to let piss poor attempts at Scottish accents in movies slide. Most people think that we have 1 accent which is just crazy, it depends on where you come from and, being a small country, the accents can change from town to town never mind region to region. doric, lallands, etc. Etc. Anyway minor rant aside to my ear the Jamaican accent is musical and pleasant to listen to.
I think it is important to consider the purpose of his use of the accent. It was meant to convey the personal interaction he had with the elderly woman as Death. Had she been Russian, he would have spoken the language or with the corresponding accent. German, Tagalog, Danish, etc. Obviously someone was consulted prior to filming or he wouldn't have approximated the language/accent as much as he did. The important thing is that he didn't plow through those scenes using standard U.S. English through a poor, lazy cartoonish style accent and wind up sounding more like Miss Cleo or something.
I Was raised around Jamaicans and West Indies / Caribbean culture is a major part of my early childhood, I could never put a finger on exactly why Pitt's performance sounded weird to me, just that it was off. Thank you for breaking it down.
This was really interesting! I love when he’s sitting by her bed just nodding and not speaking the most actually…I love how they’re looking at each other. Thanks for breaking this down for us!
I really think he was trying to speak something between English and Jamaican, probably for the viewing audiences. But climatically, he moved into her world, her Jamaican world or reality and dealt with her at that level. I like it when she says "backside", which is an very interesting term, which seem to mean like backwards, screwy, bullshit. I mean, like the term is perfect for what she was trying to convey, like "this is crazy!" What brought me here was I was getting this for a Jamaican lady I know, for whom I have been describing this movie for years. Though Brad Pitt gives a great performance, the actress Lois Kelly-Miller was the soul of this movie and brought it home with her superb performance, bringing the real meaning of the move into to perfect focus. She is an older lady, but quite beautiful and intelligent, still I hope I didn't spook her, as the plot of the movie is dark, and Jamaicans are a little superstitious. Cheers!
The problem here is that it is Brad Pitt that is speaking Jamican. We know he is not Jamaican. But even English among English-speaking nations will have a different intonations and even to some extent pronunciation. If Brad Pitt was Jamaican, no one will fault him from being off in speaking some Jamiacan words.
The scenes with the dying woman touch one's heart. They are emotional. Her acting is exquisite. The moments are very real in that she wants to die. She knows who he is and the interactioin with him is so genuine and beautiful that I resent people picking it apart for an ACCENT. It isn't necessary. Why is it that today the younger generation find it necessary to find any and every negative thing they can to destroy everything???? I'm sick of it. Young people, if you are going to live like this, finding the bad in anything you can, you will have a miserable life. Believe me. In the meantime, try, just try to be more positive and to enjoy the good in things. That lady in the wheel chair would tell you that you have only a short time here. Don't waste it on trivial concerns and critiques. Bringing disappointment and misery to people is not a good endeavor.WHY WOULD DEATH have a PERFECT Jamaican accent? Death is not Jamaican. Did you ever see someone who learned a foreign language who had an accent that was not perfect?? Of course you did. But Pitt is supposed to have a PERFECT accent because if he does not, you can't find something to feed on and criticize and destroy. It's sad. Very sad.
Some want to die to escape the pain of life, some want to live to escape the pain of death. The fear comes in the not knowing. When the dear lady knew what death was she no longer feared. Death then became a friend releasing her from pain. A poet once wrote about ‘going gently into that dark night’ but l want to go gently into the brilliant light of Heaven. Knowing what lies beyond death gives me comfort for my Savior is there. I do not wish to ‘rage against the dying light’ of this world, just softly slip away in the arms of angels.
Your dialect review was wonderfully interesting. When I saw the movie, Brad's Jamaican dialogue made me sit up, but as a rural southerner who understands Hollywood's frequent accent hiccups, I wondered about his execution. Also, as a decades-long resident of Miami, I could hear by the smoothness of Lois Kelly-Miller lines, she was the real deal... and classically trained on top. Brava! Professor, thank you. I appreciate how you teased out the elements with a scalpel (versus a cleaver) and explained by each piece mattered in the construction. This video was terrific!
i know it may not have been perfect but the scenes with Lois are the best scenes of this entire movie....she plays such a good part and this scene is wonderful....i'm from the South and that's how we feel too when people try to talk southern....its so forcing it like its cartooney
As a Brit I feel the same when an American does a flat cockney accent in an attempt to sound British... weird thing is, Jason Statham is one of the worst offenders:)
@@bibsann861 I have the Hot Fuzz accent of a heavy metal farmer, I agree totally. All I'm saying is that people who can do accents well do exist; so maybe use them instead of the actors who can't do accents to save their life:)
Felt wrong that she only gave credit to her when he did it correctly and according to her standards. Ms. Lois-Kelly was about 80 yrs old, and had left Jamaica for years before this film. She probably showed him an older dialect that is now weird to this lady in the video. Even English 100 yrs ago was waaay different to today’s English.
With all the mocking and laughing, it must really be a pleasure to learn Jamaican from her. Very inspiring. I would love to teach her one of the languages I speak and then see what the result is.
I completed my masters in linguistics back in 2003. I ended up as a language teacher (Spanish and Italian) instead of something more ‘linguisticy’ so this was a fun video for me to brush off my old skills. Phonetics and phonology were 2 of my favorite classes so I love the discussion of the pronunciation details.
That was really cool. I never saw this movie yet but I saw the scenes of Brad Pitt speaking in a Jamaican English accent and it intrigued me. Your analysis was really cool and appreciated. Many keen Native English speakers that have been around many parts of the US and the World can really point out accents where people are from but having a native speaker is very helpful. Looks like Brad did pretty good to adapt as an actor.
As a musician here in Miami I've been in the middle of these conversations for decades. The love of my life was from Jamaica God rest her soul. I still don't have a clue what the heck they are saying but the jerk chicken or curry goat is always good. I'll take overproof please.
Great reaction. My ex was from Kingston and when we watched this he said that they should went for a straight Jamaican script for Pitt and subbed in English instead of the Jamaican- American English mix sentence. A for effort. RIP Lois Miller.
While I am not an expert in languages, I do know that actors and vocalists who redo lines and songs in a language they don't know, they don't actually use the words of that language, they make sounds phonetically that sound like the language. Obviously this isn't the ideal way to translate, but there are individuals that do it well enough they sound more like they're saying these unfamiliar words / sounds. Just like we have persistence of vision, we also have persistence of sound, this is when we think someone said a word when maybe they only made a sound or sounds strung together to approximate the sound of words in another language. The other thing is subtitles, when we're told by subtitles what is / was said, we accept what the subtitle says we heard even though it may not be what WAS said. I refer you to a video clip from Britain Got Talent. A man appeared on the show that did just that, while listening to song clips he held up signs with the alternative words an with different words on the sign than what the singer said, you only hear the words on the sign. Even though I knew the words weren't what was on the sign that's all I could hear
I was on a holiday 3 years back. Where i stayed, Was a bar was next door. The employees were mostly 21-30 year old real Jamaican women. They gave me countless tips for when i visit the island. However till that point i could not even google a good answer for Obeah / Obia. Those lovely women helped explain it to me. So i have extra appreciation for this video. You explaining it, maybe even over simplifying it for the general public. Then the Granny i think would come by time to time telling them get back to work. They would end up bickering a bit. Perhaps in creole?? I could not make out a word they said, And i am very good with accents even real thick ones.
That's so cute! Was the grandma the owner of the bar? If you couldn't understand them, it's very likely they were speaking in creole. Glad you found my obeah explanation helpful!
I like how this lady is not even being mean, just saying her opinions on the strength of the accent, and yet so many people are rushing to defend Brad Pitt. He’s fine guys. Everyone relax.
I really appreciated your explination of what is right and wrong with these 2 sense. A gentle suggestion: Please consider adding to this video or adding a second video. Run the scene again but replace what Pitt says with what should be said. I don't know why but I love hearing this accent/language! It sings to my soul!
Interesting video you have made . Here is my take on the Pitt scenes with the Jamaican lady . While I,m not going to say Pitts version is perfect or legit . Have you ever gone to a store , rec centre , park etc and seen an older person of any ethnicity , and meet up with a stranger who can speak to them in their own language , and of the same era of speaking . Have you seen how their faces light up to find some one who speaks like they do ? . Its like they get to go home for a few minutes or found and old friend in some one they dont even know . For sure there are many different styles of speaking any language . But in the movie , the daughter is speaking an weak sounding American / Jamaican accent . While she may be Jamaican and she can talk to her mother , she cant really have that deep back home conversation with her Mother . Did you notice after realizing Pitt was Death , how she calmed down and slipped right into a deep conversation with him ? , just like she was back home or talking to an old friend ? . Dont take this the wrong way but your own accent sounds more like the valley girls from Sir Mixalots , I like big butts and I cannot Lie video . You would be able to speak with the old lady , but not really talk to her on her level . Another example , My wife of 31 years is a Trini , she came here in December of 1979 , and even tho her accent can sound a bit white washed from being here so long . I have heard many Trini,s say over the years , when she is having conversation with them , because she speaks in pre 1979 Trini , people say with a big smile , talking to you is like talking to my Granny . And that is what Pitts character did for the old lady in this movie . He gave her a few moments of home or kinship . I dont think his version of the accent is as important as the kindness he showed her in her last while being here . Its true it might not be a " perfect " Jamaican accent . But what is ? .
This was my favor scene in this movie, mainly because she could see his true self. I also wanted to know how he did in speaking the language so thanks for being an answer to a prayer. For some reason tho every time I see her I want to heal her myself. Just to see her smile and feel better❤❤❤
I have always enjoyed the joyfulness of the Jamaican language. It sounds peaceful to me. That was my fav part of the movie. Enjoyed this well done video.
I know I am three years late to this party, but for his lines that you said Jamaicans wouldn't say, like in the second scene where he says something like 'I don't need your permission' do you think she gave him lines or words that would be from the time of an older group of people and not a modern construct of the language considering his character is literally ancient. Like he picked up words from the beginning of the Jamaican language? Just a casual thought.
Thank you for your breakdown and knowledge. I have always loved this movie and always wondered how true to the language he was. I also just learned that Lois Kelly Miller passed on. What a treasure.
05:10 I can understand how a native speaker would have issues but for wider audience the scene seems very authentic and not patronizing. Thanks for review.
98% of the people who watched this don't know if the Jamaican languages is butchered or not, which it wasn't, just slight nuances. They are enjoying a good moment in the movie. This was a good movie, and had many fine moments.
@@FirstLast-yc9lq If you knew anything about the Jamaican accent, you would be laughing too! I love Brad. He's a great actor. But he definitely did one of the worst Jamaican accents I've her in entertainment. It's the truth. Deal with it.
@@autumnjade815 You can know about accents, but you also need to understand acting - accents aren't easy, some are far more difficult than others especially depending on your native language. You're also not going to spend a ton of time mastering the accent for something you do for a few lines in a 3 hour movie. Again, this is why I say....you need to grow up. Also, he wasn't JUST doing an accent here - he was also adding in a playful snark while dropping his persona and going back to death. Also if you're going to be a perpetually online guy, do a bit of research rather than laughing. That's where this conversation will end.
@@scout7060 No, it’s truly terrible. It gets me every time. I end up laughing through what I know is meant to be a serious and emotional scene. You’re simply not familiar enough with the accent to relate to what I am saying. Maybe that’s for the best.
In german, they speak dutch, which as far as I know is also spoken on the antilles. And it is close enough to german so that it is understanable. They did well with this scene.
It is interesting to consider if the mistakes with his accent were in part allowed/deliberate because Death doesn't really fit in anywhere. On a side note, the linguist has the most beautiful laugh. She made me smile just listening to her.
I really wish that book was available!! I appreciate your videos so much. I am Jamaican and also knew right away Brad’s Pitt’s accent while it may have been the best he could do, we wouldn’t pronounce that line like that 😂. Thank you for your work in letting it be known that Jamaican Patois is indeed a language.
In this take he speaks a phrase that in Brazil only the African language brought here, but it has not been used for over 100 years, he says to her "vossuncê" which was the same as "your mercy" It was and is heard or heard a lot here in Brazil in terreiro de candomblé
Same in Spanish, I've met foreigners with many years of experience in Spanish and you can still tell it's not their mother language due to the pronunciation, what I also find interesting is that Sabo kids (sons of Spanish Speakers living in US) even though they have a very limited vocabulary they pronounce the words exactly right.
As Death, they should have proper speaking. But him looking foreign, maybe the director wanted Brad to have a specific accent compared to to her, which knows and speaks like that. Ty for the knowledge and now I understand why you took interest in the Japanese language, that Ooh, to O... Is different. Brad is a different kind of actor, not just a pretty face. Snatch, is a great movie to see him performing a whole different accent/dialect/language.
I don't really think it's fair to call it caricature of the language when he's doing his best to do a genuine accent, even if he missed the mark by a mile.
Thanks for this. Very interesting. He did a very decent a job and the scene was very powerful. BTW, he was saying 'feisty' which likely the same in English as in Jamaican English. Not so much naughty but in this context more like being an upstart or speaking above your station. Maybe I'm splitting hairs.
I was raised in the rural northern part of the United States and at 26 I took a job in a deep southern city where I worked closely with African Americans for over 20 years. Eventually I realized that I had become fluent in Ebonics that I spoke at work, even with other Whites. After retirement I moved back up north and to this day, I find myself still using some Ebonics words.
Did anyone consider that when he was visiting Jamaica, it was good 4-500 year ago, so language he knows is not the same, it's kind of like if he came to US and started using "thou"
Great video. I am not Jamaican but I find the language to be a beautiful sounding language. As a minority myself I can appreciate the beauty of the language.
Nice analysis, for which I appreciate your work and thank you. I found the relationship between Death and the lady was the most attractive part of the two scenes depicted. I guess it must be quite the challenge to play a part that is only written in a script. We have to imagine what it would be like because we have no direct experience upon which we can draw. Both sceness were exquisitely tender in depicting death with feelings. The humanity of a life lived by Lois was very evident and her portrayal as the elderly woman at the end of her life was completely poignant. Her tone was conversational and she did not fight with Death. SHe was matter of fact about her impending death and it was underscored by the way she told death that she had now got enough pictures. For me, both scenes were beautifully handled and the overlay of accents (correct or not) was a very minor backdrop to a moment that we must all face in whatever way we can, with respect to our own mortality.
I really appreciated this analysis, with its descriptiveness and detail, the "not this, but that" specificity. It elevates it from how some describe it as if it were mere opinion or 'gut feel' and nails it down point by point. I'm from the southern US, and have cringed over the years at actors playing southern roles, who sound like they never heard our accent at all, as if they're reading it phonetically from a page, or worse, making up how they imagine it sounds. They sound like the southern equivalent of Hugh Grant in _Mickey Blue Eyes (1999)_ trying (and failing) to say 'Fuhgeddaboudit' like an NYC mobster. Your precise descriptions would have cleared it right up for him! Oh, and how about that Lois Kelly-Miller! She's beautiful! What a talent! I'm somewhat a student of facial expressions, and hers were spot-on! One moment in particular, when Death takes her, she sighs out her last breath and relaxes her head slightly to the side, her facial muscles then appear to 'deflate' somehow, as if no longer plumped up by blood pressure. She literally empties all expression (and, seemingly, fluid volume) from her face! How's she do that? Phenomenal actress!
Thank you so much for that. I love those accents. I’ve lived in coastal South Carolina my whole life. My friends here are Gullah and they speak Geechee. It’s nowhere near as hard as Creole or Patois (in my Caucasian opinion) and I understand it much better. I wouldn’t ever attempt to try to speak it though. God bless.
My absolute pleasure, William! Like the Jamaican language, Gullah is an English-based creole, and while watching a few videos on it, I was able to understand most everything being said without needing to look at the subtitles. The speakers were speaking slowly though, so the true test will be listening to native speakers having a conversation entirely in Gullah. Thanks for reminding me about such a beautiful language!
I love all accents and have one too, my ex husband was from Egypt my son adopted from Russia and my family all Irish! I feel accents makes us interesting and everyone should b proud of their backgrounds. The Jamaican accent is just as beautiful as all the rest !☘️
It's wonderful to see someone willing to get into the details and the weeds on something like this. Including how things should have sounded. Thank you so much!
I agree with @Kay-Renee NO-ONE thought Brad Pitt "ACTING in a MOVIE" would be speaking AUTHENTIC Jamaican. Is this REALLY NECESSARY? He plays MAKE-BELIEVE for a Living. It's NOT THAT DEEP. ✌️❤️🙏🕊️
That is really interesting, many thanks, now I love Jamaican English! I understand you totally, always when in films people speaks Italian not only the accents, but even words or expression are not only strange, but wrong, not from this world, hahaha!. But I appreciate it when they try! Especially in the Turkish "Magnificent Century", wow, they do a great job! Should I pronounce it all right in (Jamaican) English, or even Turkish...ciao (with the hand showing back...)!
Thank you, I Love this sc and it is part of what makes the movie for me. I like how someone below marks that he is supposed to be "Other", I can see that, but agree, he is not Jamaican. Thank you for pointing out that the amazing actress Lois Kelly-Miller tried to help and that you can see it means a lot to Brad to try and make it work. I agree, when we make movies we try and more so now a days we get more info. But there Is always some things we cant' get 100%, not an excuse, more those people who know really know something, and it's storytelling so some leeway is needed. Heck try a cooking sc., or archery, or tea making, its hard, but I like the ones that do try. Such a good one to do, thank you for your work here on this.
Hi. This is my first visit, but I'll be back. I found this show to be wonderful. I thought Brad did a very good job.....but!!!! What do I know? lol Your presentation was very illuminating. Thank you.
Fascinating video, thanks. But as an English speaking Englishman I have to say, that there is also an excruciating trail of debris along the road between Hollywood and the convincing English accent. Going back the other way is as bad. I have family and friends across the globe (including Japan). We all tend to crash land some words and phrases from each other’s dialects. To me that is a natural and inevitable part of a relaxed conversation. I could tell a bunch of stories that I’m sure you would identify with about speaking French or English or American or Indian English. The question I want to ask is ‘What is the character trying to do?’ He recognises the very wonderful Lois Kelly-Miller as Jamaican and tries to make her feel at ease. I don’t think he’s trying to be Jamaican. The clangers are a natural part of that. I don’t know if thay changed the character arc for Scott Baluka in NCIS New Orleans, but his accent initially made ME wince. When it was clarified that he was from out of state but loved being in the city, his mash-up made sense. For 35 years I have lived with an American in the UK. She still sounds American to me, but she sounds English to the friends she was at school with. It’s a mix. Thank you for sharing how good Brad Pitt was. But it’s a rare actor that can nail an accent that different to their own. Don’t sweat it, there will always be Dick Van Dyke in Marry Poppins.
Everyone is protective of their accents. Im Scottish,and it can be painful to hear actors mimic my accent. But we roll our "r's" similar to the Germans. Its very difficult, you have to see the effort ❤
Just watched it yesterday on Amazon Prime❤Love your review. Im 71 now....Loved Brad in this film...then and now....the whole thing. Learning any accent for roles not an easy task❤ Sir Anthony and Jake Weber both covered heir native UK accents
I really appreciated this video. I was mesmerized watching the clip of the first scene for obvious reasons (having not seen the movie), so it’s interesting to see an explanation of what the movie and Pitt get wrong or right.
Jane here. I knew nothing about the movie before seeing your video. What a lovely lady. Her accent was very relaxed. Perhaps Brad Pitt just needed a bit more time rehearsing his accent until it was flawless. I remember the very British Michael Caine played an uncle from Texas, and his Texan drawl sounded perfect to my untrained ears. I wish you all great success in getting your language legally back. I think, but I'm not sure, that the Welsh have just recently won their native tongue back as the official language.
I am from Texas. I like Michael Caine, relatively speaking, but he has a really hard time sounding like anyone but Michael Caine. There were moments when he sounded vaguely American (forget Texan), but for the most part to natives he still sounded exceedingly British. Cockney, even. 😜 B+ for effort, though.
Meet Joe Black is one of the best most beautiful movies of all time. But did you know it's a remake? Of a movie called "Death takes a holiday." In fact in this scene he tells her that hes on holiday lol
@@RossIsFine I haven't, but I did watch The Preacher's Wife starring Denzel Washington and Whitney Houston wayyyy back in the day. You sound like quite the old film connoisseur!
As a Jamaican, born, raised and living in Jamaica... I appreciated his accent. He did good. Obviously he doesn't sound authentically Jamaican because he's not, the biggest thing I sentence structure isn't how we would speak naturally but I get that the international audience also needs to understand. And we don't use the word irie in casual conversation. But I liked it.
Yes, I feel like you may be right, but I really have a couple of different problems with this analyses:
1) Joe Black is also foreign to English, he is other worldly and his syntax isn't always the most normal through the movie, it works to distinguish him from the humans
2) The creator seems gleeful in her criticism, dare I say disparaging?
3) "caricature" pronounced with the accent on the second syllable is something I have never heard before. Unique, interesting
4) My favorite expression from a Jamaican was : "Chingauo" which is Spanish "chingada" learned from native Vietnamese speakers. She used it to show excitement at a fireworks display. Language is fun sometimes.
@@craigthomas2497weird that you got "disparaging" from the creator
It was a good attempt for a white boy😮
He did well how many foreigners can do that ..
Yes he’s not Jamaican so what you expect
As a non Jamaican, I can't speak to the accuracy of his dialect or accent, but as a anglo I can tell you that Joe Black very much wasn't 'all there' in english either. I think his character's point is that no matter what language he's speaking, he's 'Other'. He's wrong in some way. And that's because he's the literal Angel of Death. He's this entity wearing a human, so no matter what language he speaks, he's alien.
Yeah… this is it. I made my comment before I read yours. Well put.
Bingo!
@@tommiegirl2441 Yes, you were spot on.
Not all a we died badda Don. Some a we still deh pon di rock same way a plant corn
Corect
Lois Kelly Miller is the Jamaican actress that played the old woman. She taught Brad how to speak for the film.
I have to agree with a commenter on another video "He was taught by Lois Kelly-Miller who was the Jamaican lady in the wheelchair. He also had an additional language instructor. Lois Kelly Miller was pleased with his Patois so I don't know why people are harping on it."
I realize it probably wasn't real authentic to a Jamaican, but it was passable to me. I thought it was one of the most poignant, fascinating scenes in the movie. Here was Death, the Grim Reaper, and this Jamaican lady immediately recognized him for who he was. He knew it, but still patiently tried to ease her fear and anxiety, and lovingly helped her pass when it was time. I truly understand how a native speaker might cringe at the dialog, but I think the scenes' messages were what was important.
Well you gotta keep in mind, Brad Pitts character is playing Death, So while yes Death should know the language cause well its Death and its been around since the dawn of time BUT its Death so hes or its going to say things with a bit more and this might not be the best word but "mystical" or prolonged way cause as death its talking to a being it doesnt see as its equal, lesser or greater. So imo its like it (Brad) was slowing or prolonging words to be easier on Lois Kelly-Millers character cause well its a human being that realizes shes in the presence of like the actual Death.
But thats just my take on it lol
@@eightfold189 That's a great point! His English speech wasn't exactly normal, either. For example, if a Finnish actor was playing an average American guy and he sounded like Brad Pitt in this movie, I'd have criticisms too. Joe is an angel trying to act human, but he's still an alien being so he misses the mark a lot.
TRUST ME!!!! When "Hollywood" tries to do any American dialect---whether Midwestern, New England, or whatever----they are ALL characitures and badly done!!!!!! Even though they are done by Americans doing other Americans from regions other than their own, they sound un-authentic. Particularly when anyone NOT from the South TRIES to do any kind of Southern accent. It is always way too over-the-top.
No love the message is not more important than the language they are trying to give us through. You know why? Because there's an entire culture of people at least 90% looking like....what the hell was that and did not connect to that scene the way others from other cultures might have Because the language was unique to them. We did not connect to that scene because it was our language and was not executed well, it wasnt bad but not acceptable because with all their money they could have gotten an actual jamaican to coach him while learning his lines for him to say it better, but no they didn't care and was happy with the caricature of the jamaican language. Still love Brad bit tho😊
@@KimoneWatson I totally understand your viewpoint, as I'm a stickler for authenticity/details. I suppose what I was trying to say was that since I (and probably many others) don't know the nuances of that dialect like a Jamaican would, it was convincing enough for me. I "got" that he was talking with a dying Jamaican lady, and therefore the essence of the scene was more important to me, as "ignorance is bliss" and I didn't know it was not accurate Jamaican speak. I understand, though, because I get frustrated with westerns and action movies sometimes because I know a bit about that stuff, and wish they would put a little more effort into details!
I love the fact that the gal in the wheelchair, being the amazing actress that she is... IS actually the one that taught Brad Pitt how to enunciate his accent
I think what you might be missing at, is that the old jamaican lady told him what to say and how to say it, and since she was like 80+ at a time and not living in Jamaica already, she might have showed him some "dated" way of speaking.
Languages develop and evolve, if you to listen to casual conversation from 100 years ago, then some elements might also sound weird to you.
Brad Pitt: *says Irie*
Old lady: “don’t leave me alone with him!”
🤣🤣🤣🤣
You? Realise real Jamaicans are dead and weren’t black they were Indian.
@@VictorLugosi ok, what does that have to do with Brad Pitt doing a terrible accent and the old lady not wanting to be alone with him?
Sorry if I sounded rude, when I asked that, but I’m legitimately confused about why that was relevant.
@@VictorLugosi Take your pills, man. You're slipping.
@@VictorLugosi
They weren't "Indian." They were natives. These native people had two names which historians usually go by: Arawak and Taíno. If you're gonna be a pedant with a strawman, then please, at the very least, just get your facts straight.
I think the “mistakes” in the pronunciation aren’t due to a lack of linguistics expertise, but rather slight changes to some words to make them more understandable to the general audience. Otherwise, it would be very hard for the average non-Jamaican speaker to follow the dialogue
I mean they could have had subtitles I guess.
Other than that I cant speak to the accuracy since I have absolutely no idea about the correct pronounciation/grammar so I defer to the experts😂
What I did like is the concept itself. Of Death or the Reaper speaking your language/dialect.
I think its criminally underused.
In general the idea of a kind reaper is just so underused!
I would love more movies and shows that portray death as sad, yes, but not an evil thing.
Perhaps, but the actual Jamaican lady already made an adjustment in her accent for that. Brad's accent was good though but it was just a little off in terms of cadence and Pronunciation which is typical of North Americans per se. Very hard to describe because the distinction is so subtle. The fact that his English is also loopy means the screenwriting corrected for these scenes and seems to balance out the rest of the movie nicely
That's not it. You can speak clearly for non-Jamaican English speakers to understand you and still sound authentically Jamaican. Lois Kelly Miller did it, an actor who dated the character Kimberly Reese on the last(?) season of A Different World did it - his Jamaican English was clear as a bell, and you could tell he was Jamaican or his background was Jamaican.
I hate subtitles. Brad sounded fine to most of us its only Jamaicans complaining.@@Picking.a.name.is.hard1
Yes!
Something I noticed about Jamaica during my first trip to the island as a “My Fair Lady” obsessed teenager was that there isn’t one static accent that everyone has. You listen to the radio (at least in 2003) and you’d hear a crisp British accent with only wisps of Jamaican in the corners, you’d speak to a doctor in a rich neighborhood and he’d have what sounded closer to what I had expected Jamaican to sound like as an American but still different like guava jelly on a pb&j, then you wind your way up into the bush and people are speaking with an English so thick it rivals the humidity. I was fascinated. I think something that’s really important to remember when talking about this is how much socioeconomics and geography factor into this discussion. It’s a tiny island, but it’s as diverse as anything I’ve found in my home state of New York.
Another thing that affects this specific example is how filmmaking works (yeah, I’ve spent a collective few months in Jamaica and also went to film school in California, I felt compelled to post a comment). You have the original script-writer who may or may not know anything about what they’re writing about who comes up with the original dialogue for the film. Maybe they chose Jamaican because there was a Miss Cleo ad they heard earlier and they wrote it with Sebastian the crab’s voice. A director gets ahold of this and takes it to an actor and maybe lets them play around with the words that are written, maybe not. I suspect that in this case, Martin Brest and Brad Pitt probably really did want to make this authentic and asked Lois Kelly-Miller to help. Or she took one look at the script, laughed really hard, and helped the poor clueless white boy out. However, the actor doesn’t have final say, and neither does the director really. On the day of shooting you have a person called the Script Supervisor who has to make sure everything on the script is shot exactly as written on the paper at least once, and then that person has to take notes and document everything that was changed and which take changed what. Shooting just one of these two scenes might have taken an entire eight hour day, and if they pushed it and shot both scenes it definitely did. Brad had (worst case scenario, no accent coach) 8 hours to learn from Lois and give his best shot at this incredibly nuanced foreign language while cameras are rolling picking up every attempt along the way. The script sup. makes a note about which take is the best one, but then hands those notes off to the next person - an editor. In addition to choosing how the words sound the editor is also looking at how the actors performed each take and everything else that’s going on in the frame. Maybe they have one take where Brad Pitt absolutely nailed the accent, but he moved his arm weird and his jacket rucked up a little and that looked awkward so they went with the take right before he nailed it because the editor couldn’t tell the difference and they prioritized the jacked arm thing. Finally this all goes to a (or more likely a few) producers who are trying to see the film from the point of view of the average (read: dumbest) audience member. If something doesn’t make sense to them or they don’t like it, then the editor has to change it. If they want to have an over-annunciated “Aaaiiiiiiirrrreeeeeee” because they think it’s more “Jamaican” then that’s what we get.
Tl;dr: There probably is a theoretical version of these scenes were Brad Pitt absolutely nailed every aspect of the accent (he’s really quite good at most of it, as was pointed out in the video). Then the probably clueless American script sup. director, editor, and producers made changes and we’re lucky to have what we’ve got.
I’m not a film or accent person but I kind of sussed this while watching the analysis. Yes, it makes sense.
Who is Miss Cleo? Just kidding, but I'm probably the youngest person who will get that reference, and I'm 32 😂
I asked a Jamaican coworker of mine about these scenes and she said one or two of the colloquialisms or phrases he used sounded more Trinidadian than Jamaican
A point that could be made is that Death just heard her accent and decided to try mimic it, since he was basically doing this with every aspect of himself learning from people and everything around him
Jamaicans aren't immortal, he's been there before and heard it before.
So, for us who are not Jamaican, we understood he was speaking a different language and didn't care. For maybe 2 million Jamaicans ( not the target audience ), you tell us.. Great movie.
You can deny the "perfection" of the delivery of Pitt's Patois speech, BUT, you CANNOT deny the emotional impact of the conversation between Pitt and the Jamaican lady. These were the most impactful in the movie. I've watched them many, many times and it still hits me in the heart every time.
The beauty of this scene is that death is universal and knows us all no matter where we're from. Also showed that death can be a mercy when someone is in pain. In the end when he said soon it was almost loving.
Appreciate he actually showed the language and the culture hes trying. Not many movies show the language
He’s Death not Jamaican …. Not supposed to be accurate , check box marked OTHER
Exactly
I guess they didn't have a Jamaican Linguist on set but it was still a convincing enough performance to anyone who doesn't speak Jamaican
It was REALLY bad
Its the same way with Hollywood film when they try to sound African like Black Panther, Coming to America etc The so called African accent they protray sounds awful to the ears of an African person. But they don't care to get it right. ... As long as the Americans don't notice, they are fine
It's kinda frustrating how much hate he gets for it. It was literally like 20 seconds of a 2 hour movie. I could understand if it was the entire film. Also, nobody @ me 😂. I was born and raised in Kingston which wasn't always great because I'm Irish and my parents are white.
I wonder if an English actor for instance has ever done a Southern accent in a movie and really messed it up? I guess the problem with that is there would be plenty of Americans to make sure the vocabulary and pronunciation were correct. But if it was a British production, who knows? Benny Hill did some bad southern accents just to be funny.
@@craftsandstuff3349 plenty of people ragging on Emma Watson's American English in Perks of Being a Wallflower, and Tom Holland and Benedict Cumberbatch's in their MCU appearances. Learning another language is hard, but learning another accent, even if only enough for a movie role, is arguably much more difficult.
He played a minority in snatch and got our language spot on, much respect to Mr.pitt
that was great.
What minority did he play? What I miss? He played a helluva role in snatch...but damn sure looked like a white man/Caucasian whatever you wanna call him to me
Traveller. @@thurmondcaldwell5482
@@thurmondcaldwell5482 'pikeys' or irish travellers are an ethnic minority in ireland and the UK. Still white but ethnically and culterally different from the majority.
@mikhailborgachov7512 my man 💪 got it appreciate the explanation
For him being death I'd say he nailed it. The way you say caricature is funny for us. LOL 😆😆😆😆
I’m glad I can just absorb the beautiful feeling from this impactful scene(s) and not feel distracted by his accent not being perfect. I’m from north east Texas and if I did a video every time about how they got the southern accent wrong in a movie, I’d never have time to sleep!
I am a real linguist. And, while Brad Pitt's crack at the Jamaican accent may not have been perfect, it was close enough to get the job done. And this YaadPikni says why, at one point in her piece. The actress playing the mother is (or was, because I believe she may be dead now) a very famous Jamaican actress. And she was helping Brad get this right. She had just as much of stake in that as he did. So, I'd say its close enough. And we can give them a break because of the wonderful strains of Thomas Newman's (Uncle of Randy Newman) music, both here and through the entire movie.
how cool...did not know the music was Randy N's uncle.
Her name was Lois Kelly Miller and was established for her work in Jamaican theatre. She died April 2020.
I think she was close to 100 years old when she passed. Is that right?@@KristineMaitland
@@goffredo29 102. It's mentioned in the video.
He put in a ton of work for 10 minutes of screen time. He did the work which is amazing.
Im not Jamaican but personally i don't see any problem with it because he's not trying to be Jamaican in the movie he's just trying to talk with a Jamaican accent
Probably to help ease the worry of a sick old lady. All he claimed is that he's spent some time in the islands.
Obviously, he did, people die in Jamaica too.
I’m watching meet Joe black right now n I actually missed this scene so came onto TH-cam to watch it. I don’t really care if his pronunciation is off, the scenes with the Jamaican lady are my favourites xxx
❤
He’s a actor playing apart! Think about if it was you coming up with a foreign dialect for a part.
Nice breakdown. Frankly it sounded fine to me with little exposure to Jamaican language which I suppose is the point.
I'm Scottish so I've learnt a long time ago to let piss poor attempts at Scottish accents in movies slide. Most people think that we have 1 accent which is just crazy, it depends on where you come from and, being a small country, the accents can change from town to town never mind region to region. doric, lallands, etc. Etc.
Anyway minor rant aside to my ear the Jamaican accent is musical and pleasant to listen to.
Wouldn't this be more analogous to a character in a movie who isn't meant to be Scottish but is meant to be fluently speaking Scots?
I think it is important to consider the purpose of his use of the accent. It was meant to convey the personal interaction he had with the elderly woman as Death. Had she been Russian, he would have spoken the language or with the corresponding accent. German, Tagalog, Danish, etc. Obviously someone was consulted prior to filming or he wouldn't have approximated the language/accent as much as he did. The important thing is that he didn't plow through those scenes using standard U.S. English through a poor, lazy cartoonish style accent and wind up sounding more like Miss Cleo or something.
I Was raised around Jamaicans and West Indies / Caribbean culture is a major part of my early childhood, I could never put a finger on exactly why Pitt's performance sounded weird to me, just that it was off. Thank you for breaking it down.
I love this scene. The added context is interesting. You actually evaluated him much stronger than I expected.
This was really interesting! I love when he’s sitting by her bed just nodding and not speaking the most actually…I love how they’re looking at each other. Thanks for breaking this down for us!
Anytime! Thanks for watching and commenting
I really think he was trying to speak something between English and Jamaican, probably for the viewing audiences. But climatically, he moved into her world, her Jamaican world or reality and dealt with her at that level. I like it when she says "backside", which is an very interesting term, which seem to mean like backwards, screwy, bullshit. I mean, like the term is perfect for what she was trying to convey, like "this is crazy!" What brought me here was I was getting this for a Jamaican lady I know, for whom I have been describing this movie for years. Though Brad Pitt gives a great performance, the actress Lois Kelly-Miller was the soul of this movie and brought it home with her superb performance, bringing the real meaning of the move into to perfect focus. She is an older lady, but quite beautiful and intelligent, still I hope I didn't spook her, as the plot of the movie is dark, and Jamaicans are a little superstitious. Cheers!
The problem here is that it is Brad Pitt that is speaking Jamican. We know he is not Jamaican. But even English among English-speaking nations will have a different intonations and even to some extent pronunciation. If Brad Pitt was Jamaican, no one will fault him from being off in speaking some Jamiacan words.
As an fyi the person who taught him patois was the Jamaican actress in the movie. She was really pleased with his performance so who am i to judge.
The scenes with the dying woman touch one's heart. They are emotional. Her acting is exquisite. The moments are very real in that she wants to die. She knows who he is and the interactioin with him is so genuine and beautiful that I resent people picking it apart for an ACCENT. It isn't necessary. Why is it that today the younger generation find it necessary to find any and every negative thing they can to destroy everything???? I'm sick of it. Young people, if you are going to live like this, finding the bad in anything you can, you will have a miserable life. Believe me. In the meantime, try, just try to be more positive and to enjoy the good in things. That lady in the wheel chair would tell you that you have only a short time here. Don't waste it on trivial concerns and critiques. Bringing disappointment and misery to people is not a good endeavor.WHY WOULD DEATH have a PERFECT Jamaican accent? Death is not Jamaican. Did you ever see someone who learned a foreign language who had an accent that was not perfect?? Of course you did. But Pitt is supposed to have a PERFECT accent because if he does not, you can't find something to feed on and criticize and destroy.
It's sad. Very sad.
Couldn't agree more!! ❤❤❤🥳🥇🏆
Some want to die to escape the pain of life, some want to live to escape the pain of death. The fear comes in the not knowing. When the dear lady knew what death was she no longer feared. Death then became a friend releasing her from pain. A poet once wrote about ‘going gently into that dark night’ but l want to go gently into the brilliant light of Heaven. Knowing what lies beyond death gives me comfort for my Savior is there. I do not wish to ‘rage against the dying light’ of this world, just softly slip away in the arms of angels.
Your dialect review was wonderfully interesting. When I saw the movie, Brad's Jamaican dialogue made me sit up, but as a rural southerner who understands Hollywood's frequent accent hiccups, I wondered about his execution. Also, as a decades-long resident of Miami, I could hear by the smoothness of Lois Kelly-Miller lines, she was the real deal... and classically trained on top. Brava! Professor, thank you. I appreciate how you teased out the elements with a scalpel (versus a cleaver) and explained by each piece mattered in the construction. This video was terrific!
i know it may not have been perfect but the scenes with Lois are the best scenes of this entire movie....she plays such a good part and this scene is wonderful....i'm from the South and that's how we feel too when people try to talk southern....its so forcing it like its cartooney
Well, ah declare!
Apropos to that, I wonder how well Gone with the Wind fared with the Georgian accent?
As a Brit I feel the same when an American does a flat cockney accent in an attempt to sound British... weird thing is, Jason Statham is one of the worst offenders:)
@@KevPage-WitkickerWell your accent sounds bad to others.
@@bibsann861 I have the Hot Fuzz accent of a heavy metal farmer, I agree totally. All I'm saying is that people who can do accents well do exist; so maybe use them instead of the actors who can't do accents to save their life:)
:D Thanks for the video! hahaha I love your honest laughters over the pronounciation after some of the scenes
Really enjoyed you explaining the scenes and giving credit to Ms Lois-Kelly Miller.
Felt wrong that she only gave credit to her when he did it correctly and according to her standards.
Ms. Lois-Kelly was about 80 yrs old, and had left Jamaica for years before this film.
She probably showed him an older dialect that is now weird to this lady in the video.
Even English 100 yrs ago was waaay different to today’s English.
With all the mocking and laughing, it must really be a pleasure to learn Jamaican from her. Very inspiring. I would love to teach her one of the languages I speak and then see what the result is.
I completed my masters in linguistics back in 2003. I ended up as a language teacher (Spanish and Italian) instead of something more ‘linguisticy’ so this was a fun video for me to brush off my old skills. Phonetics and phonology were 2 of my favorite classes so I love the discussion of the pronunciation details.
That was really cool. I never saw this movie yet but I saw the scenes of Brad Pitt speaking in a Jamaican English accent and it intrigued me. Your analysis was really cool and appreciated. Many keen Native English speakers that have been around many parts of the US and the World can really point out accents where people are from but having a native speaker is very helpful. Looks like Brad did pretty good to adapt as an actor.
I need to watch this movie. It looks fascinating. I love Brad Pitt..
As a musician here in Miami I've been in the middle of these conversations for decades. The love of my life was from Jamaica God rest her soul. I still don't have a clue what the heck they are saying but the jerk chicken or curry goat is always good. I'll take overproof please.
He isn't Jamaican, he isn't trying to be, he is just trying to relate to the old lady. Let's not take it too serious :).
Great reaction.
My ex was from Kingston and when we watched this he said that they should went for a straight Jamaican script for Pitt and subbed in English instead of the Jamaican- American English mix sentence. A for effort. RIP Lois Miller.
While I am not an expert in languages, I do know that actors and vocalists who redo lines and songs in a language they don't know, they don't actually use the words of that language, they make sounds phonetically that sound like the language. Obviously this isn't the ideal way to translate, but there are individuals that do it well enough they sound more like they're saying these unfamiliar words / sounds.
Just like we have persistence of vision, we also have persistence of sound, this is when we think someone said a word when maybe they only made a sound or sounds strung together to approximate the sound of words in another language.
The other thing is subtitles, when we're told by subtitles what is / was said, we accept what the subtitle says we heard even though it may not be what WAS said.
I refer you to a video clip from Britain Got Talent. A man appeared on the show that did just that, while listening to song clips he held up signs with the alternative words an with different words on the sign than what the singer said, you only hear the words on the sign. Even though I knew the words weren't what was on the sign that's all I could hear
I was on a holiday 3 years back. Where i stayed, Was a bar was next door. The employees were mostly 21-30 year old real Jamaican women. They gave me countless tips for when i visit the island. However till that point i could not even google a good answer for Obeah / Obia. Those lovely women helped explain it to me. So i have extra appreciation for this video. You explaining it, maybe even over simplifying it for the general public. Then the Granny i think would come by time to time telling them get back to work. They would end up bickering a bit. Perhaps in creole?? I could not make out a word they said, And i am very good with accents even real thick ones.
That's so cute! Was the grandma the owner of the bar? If you couldn't understand them, it's very likely they were speaking in creole. Glad you found my obeah explanation helpful!
I like how this lady is not even being mean, just saying her opinions on the strength of the accent, and yet so many people are rushing to defend Brad Pitt. He’s fine guys. Everyone relax.
Its because 99% of us loved this scene and really don't care what actual Jamaicans think of his accent. They can't speak English so well
@@bibsann861 then don’t watch the video.
I really appreciated your explination of what is right and wrong with these 2 sense. A gentle suggestion: Please consider adding to this video or adding a second video. Run the scene again but replace what Pitt says with what should be said. I don't know why but I love hearing this accent/language! It sings to my soul!
This is one of the greatest scenes of any movie anywhere whatsoever and as such it it stands far above any form of criticism.
Interesting video you have made . Here is my take on the Pitt scenes with the Jamaican lady . While I,m not going to say Pitts version is perfect or legit . Have you ever gone to a store , rec centre , park etc and seen an older person of any ethnicity , and meet up with a stranger who can speak to them in their own language , and of the same era of speaking . Have you seen how their faces light up to find some one who speaks like they do ? . Its like they get to go home for a few minutes or found and old friend in some one they dont even know .
For sure there are many different styles of speaking any language . But in the movie , the daughter is speaking an weak sounding American / Jamaican accent . While she may be Jamaican and she can talk to her mother , she cant really have that deep back home conversation with her Mother . Did you notice after realizing Pitt was Death , how she calmed down and slipped right into a deep conversation with him ? , just like she was back home or talking to an old friend ? . Dont take this the wrong way but your own accent sounds more like the valley girls from Sir Mixalots , I like big butts and I cannot Lie video . You would be able to speak with the old lady , but not really talk to her on her level . Another example , My wife of 31 years is a Trini , she came here in December of 1979 , and even tho her accent can sound a bit white washed from being here so long . I have heard many Trini,s say over the years , when she is having conversation with them , because she speaks in pre 1979 Trini , people say with a big smile , talking to you is like talking to my Granny . And that is what Pitts character did for the old lady in this movie . He gave her a few moments of home or kinship . I dont think his version of the accent is as important as the kindness he showed her in her last while being here . Its true it might not be a " perfect " Jamaican accent . But what is ? .
Brad Pitt doesn't have to be perfect, but Death does.
I love the scenes with Joe Black and this lady. Great movie.. Hits you in all the feels.
This was my favor scene in this movie, mainly because she could see his true self. I also wanted to know how he did in speaking the language so thanks for being an answer to a prayer. For some reason tho every time I see her I want to heal her myself. Just to see her smile and feel better❤❤❤
She is an absolutely amazing actress as it is evident in this matter, plus she lived until 102? I am intrigued, really wanna check her movie career.
From what I have read and learned, his Patois was good enough to be able to get around the Islands.
This is still one of my top 5 movies of all time. Anthony Hopkins and Brad are incredibly good.
I have always enjoyed the joyfulness of the Jamaican language. It sounds peaceful to me. That was my fav part of the movie. Enjoyed this well done video.
And yet, it remains the best part of the movie.
I know I am three years late to this party, but for his lines that you said Jamaicans wouldn't say, like in the second scene where he says something like 'I don't need your permission' do you think she gave him lines or words that would be from the time of an older group of people and not a modern construct of the language considering his character is literally ancient. Like he picked up words from the beginning of the Jamaican language? Just a casual thought.
Thank you for your breakdown and knowledge. I have always loved this movie and always wondered how true to the language he was.
I also just learned that Lois Kelly Miller passed on. What a treasure.
05:10 I can understand how a native speaker would have issues but for wider audience the scene seems very authentic and not patronizing. Thanks for review.
98% of the people who watched this don't know if the Jamaican languages is butchered or not, which it wasn't, just slight nuances. They are enjoying a good moment in the movie. This was a good movie, and had many fine moments.
The Jamaican language was totally butchered.
It’s so bad it prompts immediate laughter. It’s really cringe.
@@autumnjade815 No, it doesn't. Grow up.
@@FirstLast-yc9lq If you knew anything about the Jamaican accent, you would be laughing too!
I love Brad. He's a great actor. But he definitely did one of the worst Jamaican accents I've her in entertainment.
It's the truth. Deal with it.
@@autumnjade815 You can know about accents, but you also need to understand acting - accents aren't easy, some are far more difficult than others especially depending on your native language. You're also not going to spend a ton of time mastering the accent for something you do for a few lines in a 3 hour movie. Again, this is why I say....you need to grow up. Also, he wasn't JUST doing an accent here - he was also adding in a playful snark while dropping his persona and going back to death.
Also if you're going to be a perpetually online guy, do a bit of research rather than laughing. That's where this conversation will end.
@@scout7060 No, it’s truly terrible. It gets me every time. I end up laughing through what I know is meant to be a serious and emotional scene.
You’re simply not familiar enough with the accent to relate to what I am saying. Maybe that’s for the best.
In german, they speak dutch, which as far as I know is also spoken on the antilles. And it is close enough to german so that it is understanable.
They did well with this scene.
It is interesting to consider if the mistakes with his accent were in part allowed/deliberate because Death doesn't really fit in anywhere. On a side note, the linguist has the most beautiful laugh. She made me smile just listening to her.
Yeah I’m pretty sure they didn’t hire him because of his world renowned Jamaican accent…
I really wish that book was available!! I appreciate your videos so much. I am Jamaican and also knew right away Brad’s Pitt’s accent while it may have been the best he could do, we wouldn’t pronounce that line like that 😂. Thank you for your work in letting it be known that Jamaican Patois is indeed a language.
Thanks for watching and for the support! The book should still be available. Try contacting The Jamaican Language Unit at UWI about purchasing a copy
For Americans, Brad nailed this. I could understand most of what he said. With a true Jamaican accent, it would not have worked near as well.
In this take he speaks a phrase that in Brazil only the African language brought here, but it has not been used for over 100 years, he says to her "vossuncê" which was the same as "your mercy" It was and is heard or heard a lot here in Brazil in terreiro de candomblé
Oh wow! What's the timestamp for when he said it?
Same in Spanish, I've met foreigners with many years of experience in Spanish and you can still tell it's not their mother language due to the pronunciation, what I also find interesting is that Sabo kids (sons of Spanish Speakers living in US) even though they have a very limited vocabulary they pronounce the words exactly right.
As Death, they should have proper speaking. But him looking foreign, maybe the director wanted Brad to have a specific accent compared to to her, which knows and speaks like that. Ty for the knowledge and now I understand why you took interest in the Japanese language, that Ooh, to O... Is different.
Brad is a different kind of actor, not just a pretty face. Snatch, is a great movie to see him performing a whole different accent/dialect/language.
I don't really think it's fair to call it caricature of the language when he's doing his best to do a genuine accent, even if he missed the mark by a mile.
Thanks for this. Very interesting. He did a very decent a job and the scene was very powerful. BTW, he was saying 'feisty' which likely the same in English as in Jamaican English. Not so much naughty but in this context more like being an upstart or speaking above your station. Maybe I'm splitting hairs.
I was raised in the rural northern part of the United States and at 26 I took a job in a deep southern city where I worked closely with African Americans for over 20 years. Eventually I realized that I had become fluent in Ebonics that I spoke at work, even with other Whites. After retirement I moved back up north and to this day, I find myself still using some Ebonics words.
I wish Hollywood would take more time to be authentic no matter the language, culture, or customs.
I love language and I love your explaining. Thank you for making this!
Yah mon a true and mi to and mi gone yah mon.h🙏🏽😇🥰
FJ and Ericka, thanks so much! Happy you both enjoyed it.
I think Pitt did great considering he's playing Death stuck in a Yankee from New Yorks body.
Did anyone consider that when he was visiting Jamaica, it was good 4-500 year ago, so language he knows is not the same, it's kind of like if he came to US and started using "thou"
Great video. I am not Jamaican but I find the language to be a beautiful sounding language. As a minority myself I can appreciate the beauty of the language.
This is amazing and I learned so much! Thank you for sharing your warmth as nd knowledge with us!
So happy you enjoyed it!
Nice analysis, for which I appreciate your work and thank you. I found the relationship between Death and the lady was the most attractive part of the two scenes depicted. I guess it must be quite the challenge to play a part that is only written in a script. We have to imagine what it would be like because we have no direct experience upon which we can draw. Both sceness were exquisitely tender in depicting death with feelings. The humanity of a life lived by Lois was very evident and her portrayal as the elderly woman at the end of her life was completely poignant. Her tone was conversational and she did not fight with Death. SHe was matter of fact about her impending death and it was underscored by the way she told death that she had now got enough pictures. For me, both scenes were beautifully handled and the overlay of accents (correct or not) was a very minor backdrop to a moment that we must all face in whatever way we can, with respect to our own mortality.
I really appreciated this analysis, with its descriptiveness and detail, the "not this, but that" specificity. It elevates it from how some describe it as if it were mere opinion or 'gut feel' and nails it down point by point.
I'm from the southern US, and have cringed over the years at actors playing southern roles, who sound like they never heard our accent at all, as if they're reading it phonetically from a page, or worse, making up how they imagine it sounds. They sound like the southern equivalent of Hugh Grant in _Mickey Blue Eyes (1999)_ trying (and failing) to say 'Fuhgeddaboudit' like an NYC mobster. Your precise descriptions would have cleared it right up for him!
Oh, and how about that Lois Kelly-Miller! She's beautiful! What a talent! I'm somewhat a student of facial expressions, and hers were spot-on! One moment in particular, when Death takes her, she sighs out her last breath and relaxes her head slightly to the side, her facial muscles then appear to 'deflate' somehow, as if no longer plumped up by blood pressure. She literally empties all expression (and, seemingly, fluid volume) from her face! How's she do that? Phenomenal actress!
Somehow I missed your comment. I'm glad you liked the analysis, and thanks for the feedback!
Thank you for making such an insightful and informative video- I loved learning from your in-depth analysis and information. Keep it up!
Thank you so much for that. I love those accents. I’ve lived in coastal South Carolina my whole life. My friends here are Gullah and they speak Geechee. It’s nowhere near as hard as Creole or Patois (in my Caucasian opinion) and I understand it much better. I wouldn’t ever attempt to try to speak it though. God bless.
My absolute pleasure, William! Like the Jamaican language, Gullah is an English-based creole, and while watching a few videos on it, I was able to understand most everything being said without needing to look at the subtitles. The speakers were speaking slowly though, so the true test will be listening to native speakers having a conversation entirely in Gullah. Thanks for reminding me about such a beautiful language!
I love all accents and have one too, my ex husband was from Egypt my son adopted from Russia and my family all Irish! I feel accents makes us interesting and everyone should b proud of their backgrounds. The Jamaican accent is just as beautiful as all the rest !☘️
It's wonderful to see someone willing to get into the details and the weeds on something like this. Including how things should have sounded. Thank you so much!
I agree with @Kay-Renee NO-ONE thought Brad Pitt "ACTING in a MOVIE" would be speaking AUTHENTIC Jamaican. Is this REALLY NECESSARY? He plays MAKE-BELIEVE for a Living. It's NOT THAT DEEP. ✌️❤️🙏🕊️
That is really interesting, many thanks, now I love Jamaican English! I understand you totally, always when in films people speaks Italian not only the accents, but even words or expression are not only strange, but wrong, not from this world, hahaha!. But I appreciate it when they try! Especially in the Turkish "Magnificent Century", wow, they do a great job! Should I pronounce it all right in (Jamaican) English, or even Turkish...ciao (with the hand showing back...)!
It's death on Vacation learning to be human in a dead body. In the beginning of the movie he was just a whisper in your ear.
Thank you, I Love this sc and it is part of what makes the movie for me. I like how someone below marks that he is supposed to be "Other", I can see that, but agree, he is not Jamaican. Thank you for pointing out that the amazing actress Lois Kelly-Miller tried to help and that you can see it means a lot to Brad to try and make it work. I agree, when we make movies we try and more so now a days we get more info. But there Is always some things we cant' get 100%, not an excuse, more those people who know really know something, and it's storytelling so some leeway is needed. Heck try a cooking sc., or archery, or tea making, its hard, but I like the ones that do try. Such a good one to do, thank you for your work here on this.
Hi. This is my first visit, but I'll be back. I found this show to be wonderful. I thought Brad did a very good job.....but!!!! What do I know? lol Your presentation was very illuminating. Thank you.
I enjoyed this so much! I love languages and this was fascinating!
Fascinating video, thanks. But as an English speaking Englishman I have to say, that there is also an excruciating trail of debris along the road between Hollywood and the convincing English accent. Going back the other way is as bad.
I have family and friends across the globe (including Japan). We all tend to crash land some words and phrases from each other’s dialects. To me that is a natural and inevitable part of a relaxed conversation. I could tell a bunch of stories that I’m sure you would identify with about speaking French or English or American or Indian English.
The question I want to ask is ‘What is the character trying to do?’ He recognises the very wonderful Lois Kelly-Miller as Jamaican and tries to make her feel at ease. I don’t think he’s trying to be Jamaican. The clangers are a natural part of that.
I don’t know if thay changed the character arc for Scott Baluka in NCIS New Orleans, but his accent initially made ME wince. When it was clarified that he was from out of state but loved being in the city, his mash-up made sense.
For 35 years I have lived with an American in the UK. She still sounds American to me, but she sounds English to the friends she was at school with. It’s a mix.
Thank you for sharing how good Brad Pitt was. But it’s a rare actor that can nail an accent that different to their own. Don’t sweat it, there will always be Dick Van Dyke in Marry Poppins.
Yes, Thomas Newman, who does the music in this movie, is Randy Newman's uncle.
What do you think about Naomie Harris’ accent in ‘Pirates Of The Caribbean’? Her mother is Jamaican.
Everyone is protective of their accents. Im Scottish,and it can be painful to hear actors mimic my accent. But we roll our "r's" similar to the Germans. Its very difficult, you have to see the effort ❤
Just watched it yesterday on Amazon Prime❤Love your review. Im 71 now....Loved Brad in this film...then and now....the whole thing. Learning any accent for roles not an easy task❤ Sir Anthony and Jake Weber both covered heir native UK accents
My Irish great-grandmother you could barely understand her English. Her main language was Gaelic, periodic super strong broag, White Irish accent
I really appreciated this video. I was mesmerized watching the clip of the first scene for obvious reasons (having not seen the movie), so it’s interesting to see an explanation of what the movie and Pitt get wrong or right.
I still have trouble making out what they are saying. Could you give a summary of both scenes?
Jane here. I knew nothing about the movie before seeing your video. What a lovely lady. Her accent was very relaxed. Perhaps Brad Pitt just needed a bit more time rehearsing his accent until it was flawless.
I remember the very British Michael Caine played an uncle from Texas, and his Texan drawl sounded perfect to my untrained ears. I wish you all great success in getting your language legally back. I think, but I'm not sure, that the Welsh have just recently won their native tongue back as the official language.
I am from Texas. I like Michael Caine, relatively speaking, but he has a really hard time sounding like anyone but Michael Caine. There were moments when he sounded vaguely American (forget Texan), but for the most part to natives he still sounded exceedingly British. Cockney, even. 😜 B+ for effort, though.
Meet Joe Black is one of the best most beautiful movies of all time. But did you know it's a remake? Of a movie called "Death takes a holiday." In fact in this scene he tells her that hes on holiday lol
Now, that is a fun fact that I did not know!
@@YaadPikni yeah so cool! Ever see the old movie with Cary Grant "The preacher's wife?" Great hidden gem of a film
@@RossIsFine I haven't, but I did watch The Preacher's Wife starring Denzel Washington and Whitney Houston wayyyy back in the day. You sound like quite the old film connoisseur!